(Moon) The pic in the middle does not look like him. (Mari) No, but it *does* look like Tom Jones! Aha! That's it! Just no throwing your undergarments at him, ladies.

(Karen) Am trying to coming up with even better trivial pursuits. ;-) How many times he changes his clothes (or doesn't)... So what do we think is running through DQ's mind (underneath all that hair) during his last, enigmatic, over-the-shoulder look?

"Thank god this one won't spit at me"?

LOL!

(Eileen)So what do we think is running through DQ's mind (underneath all that hair) during his last,enigmatic, over-the-shoulder look? I find that intense look v. interesting too, Eileen. When I first saw it I thought he really did not remember Lucy or what the H*** she was talking about. "I'm sorry....I caused that trouble"of course makes it plain he does remember. But how much? Maybe he just remembers that he was troublesome, and not the details.He clearly has a different personality now.Will have to confer with son about what type of treatment is involved for behavior mod like this.

It used to be electric shocks in certain parts of the world...

Electroshock, Drugs, Conditioning, whatever, "They" have gotten him back to "Normal" -- he has become what he had originally been -- the Corporate - Takeover - King. He is out in the world doing it all over again. However it was achieved, they had to (re)educate him to the utter righteousness of material gain over the welfare of human beings, (re)condition him to be utterly contemptuous of the "weaknesses" in Donovan, and teach him to feel intense shame at having somehow succumbed to the temptation of the Golden Rule. His new self was released upon the world in the confidence that these proper attitudes had been completely and permanently internalized again ... and they had. Thus his denial at first. Even when finally admitting some connection with those events, they were in the form of an apology for causing "trouble" ... he was mortified at having caused all that "trouble". I'm sure he felt completely justified as he went to catch his train. Only there was a sudden attack of wistfulness from he - knew - not - where that caused him to turn back, and feel a regret for he - knew - not - what, but it wasn't for causing trouble ... but probably for something he felt had been permanently lost like a fading dream, only he couldn't remember...

...he felt had been permanently lost like a fading dream, only he couldn't remember... I think you nailed it, KJ. And have you noticed that even his voice changes as Daniel Green.Has the timbre of the early arrogant Mr. Darcy.

Green? Or Quinn?

Oops....Quinn...(Picky,Picky);-)

Hi folks back again from the world of mundane reality. As regards to how DQ was treated, to transform him back to Daniel Quin there can only be one simple answer, PROZAC. Although I thought prozac was supposed to make people happy, Daniel Quinn did not look very happy to me. I aslo think in the scene at the end of the movie where he apologises to Lucy, he is also letting her know that he is sorry for breaking her heart.

Ooops, Quinn!!!!!!

Reading back over what I wrote (back from the world of mundane reality) Maybe I should get a script for PROZAC.

Great comments, KJ. You put my thoughts on "paper". Maureen, I don't doubt your assessment either. Perhaps our resident health care experts might have more insight. I wouldn't mind a few of those drugs myself some days. I'm not quibbling with the fleeting glimpse we get of Daniel's wife. Would have liked to have seen more of her though, perhaps in the flashbacks. From what little we see of her, she looks sleek, successful, a perfect partner to the man he was. I of course imagine she is the "family" he mentions who first sought his psychiatric care. Would have liked a little more insight into the life he led pre-Donovan.

..., to transform him back to Daniel Quin there can only be one simple answer, PROZAC. Well, actually there are several protocols that could have been used...including shock treatment.Of course, this is a multi-layeredfictional creation, it is not a documentary.Didn't Bethan tell us that the author has written other stories involving mental illness? A traumatic episode doesn't turn someone into a manic depressive. And treatments of any kind does not blank out entire memory. The ending is ambiguous because probably the whole story is improbable. Still it is a brilliant correlation to Don Quijote with a contemporary correlation to current social problems. Heavy agenda.

(Heide) our resident health care experts Oooo, not me; psych's never been my thing. I agree with KJ, though, it really doesn't matter how they got him back to Daniel Quinn. I watched DQ again yesterday. What a wonderful script--no wonder Colin took this project. There's one line (which I didn't write down, so I'm paraphrasing). It comes near the end, when Donovan is 'confessing' his past to Lucy. She brings up Don Quixote. He replies "Don Quixote was mad. When they restored him to sanity, he was nothing."

"Don Quixote was mad. When they restored him to sanity, he was nothing." I rewound that line a couple of times to catch exactly what he said and still am not sure. Think it went like this: "DQ was a great man (or madman)." The rest went as you wrote, Eileen. Do they still use electroshock therapy on people? I too like what KJ wrote. Daniel has been rehabilitated, brought back to "sanity," although I don't think he was unaware of his real self at any time. He would refer to his old life with a sadness.

Do they still use electroshock therapy on people? Son says yes. 1. Used when patient does not respond to chemical treatment. 2. V. expensive. Therefore chem treatments preferred by insurance co. However, neither treatment blanks out memory IRL. Therefore what you say is true, Karen. I don't think he was unaware of his real self at any time. He would refer to his old life with a sadness. He was not unaware of Daniel when he was Donovan. Or of Donovan after he returned to being Daniel. Of course, as I said this is fiction, and the author can do what he wants with the character.

Response 1627 of 1628: KJArt (KJArt) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (15:07) * 5 lines Prozac is mainly for chronic depression, which is not, I think what Donavan was suffering from. I don't know -- he might have been bipolar (manic-depressive) in which case they had probably used lithium (which he has to continue taking). But all these are mood alterers which wouldn't completely do the trick. I truly believed he had to go through intensive "counseling" (read brain-washing) to completely change his reactions to things, his attitudes towards them. He had to be taught to hate and fear....again.

(Evelyn), The ending is ambiguous because probably the whole story is improbable. What if he really did not recognize Lucy at the end but transfered his memory to the woman in the beginning and ended up apologizing to Lucy thinking of the other woman. Or apologizing in general for what he does. (That is one big mea culpa).

The husband of Donna Fairchild, screenwriter of DQ, is a psychiatric nurse. "Taking over the Asylum" which she also wrote (and won a BAFTA) was about mental illness.

transfered his memory to the woman in the beginning and ended up apologizing to Lucy thinking of the other woman. You may have hit the point, I think.

transfered his memory to the woman in the beginning and ended up apologizing to Lucy thinking of the other woman. You mean,Mrs. Sapas, the wife of the man he killed? Well, like I said...anything can happen in fiction.And this is a very probale ending. The dialogue is v. sparse, and ambiguous.We have to rely on his facial expressions which could justify several plausible endings.

Yes, indeed! Isn't it fun that all these questions can be the subject of much discussion?

..Isn't it fun that all these questions can be the subject of much discussion? Indeed,which adds to the intrigue of this film. IMO no other actor could by facial expression alone connote several different endings justifiably than ODB.

Accordingly, in that last shot, he seems to be thinking: "What the hell is she talking about...?" That was my first impression. Any more interpretations? Shall we make a list of possibilities?

..."What the hell is she talking about...?" That belongs to the ending category:He doesn't remember a thing" Which perhaps the author wanted to relate. (Doesn't happen IRL.Amnesia blanks out memory.Treatments don't....they alter behavior.)But this is fiction.(Def. my fave after P&P...written and acted on many levels.)

(Arami)Any more interpretations? "Why won't she let go of me?" Like: I wanted her to think I wasn't Donovan because I was afraid she'd spit on me like the other one, but apparently I couldn't fool her.

"Gosh, I fancy that woman something rotten..."

(Sorry. Couldn't resist it.) :-)

(Jana C)...I'm tired of seeing CF get his a-- kicked in his movies! (Donovan Quick) ...He had to atone, you see... The passive resistance was part of the atonement process, as was the humiliation. Perhaps another way to bring back Daniel was to convinced him that he'd atoned enough, he was free and clear now... Who knows? ..."Don Quixote was a great madman, Lucy. ...When they returned him to sanity, he was nothing." -- [Donovan Quick] It might have been easy to get Daniel back by pointing out to him what an utter failure Donovan was ... a crazy fool who had thrown all that money away on that trash of a family ... and what had it gained them or him? Donovan himself probably believed he was a failure as he was being "recaptured". Daniel could easily despise Donovan and be ashamed of him and of what he'd done. It's understandable that he could put it all behind him. On that station platform you could see how hard that he was concentrating on NOT listening to what Lucy was saying to him. And what Lucy was saying to him was that Donovan had not been a failure. On the contrary, he had made a great positive change in those whose lives he had touched. But Daniel was in a powerful state of Denial ... he must not listen, he would not hear! (Daniel -- Denial ; I love it!) It could be argued that he apologized for making "trouble" to get rid of her (...because that is how he honestly perceived it, had to perceive it ...). But as he walked to the train, what she implied was slowly beginning to register. It was trickling into his consciousness little by little in spite of his denial of it. He began to see what Donovan had meant to these people. Most of the change had happened after he had left, after all. Maybe the "turnaround" in his perception of Donovan ... that he was not utterly insane for harboring such unrealistic notions, that maybe it was Daniel who was a bit contemptible for disbelieving in them ... was reflected by the turnaround and stare after the one who made him see that maybe Donovan wasn't a failure after all! Maybe Donovan hadn't been TOTALLY crazy... If you're the optimistic sort, you could even read into it that the turnaround back to Donovan had slowly and subtly begun in him again too... :-) (Sorry about the essay ... it's only one interpretation after all, I know.)

An important thing to remember is that, when Donovan was hauled away, he thought he'd ruined their lives. The bus service had been taken out of commission by the vandals and Windmill's management had the upperhand; the bus was in need of major repairs and he didn't have the money; Lucy was tossed aside by Clive; and Sandy had been humiliated, lost the love of his life on the bus, and was now injured in the hospital. Donovan felt he was a failure. He had no way of knowing the positive impact he had on them. Daniel Quinn's family and doctors kept the Pannicks away from him in the hospital, so he didn't know. I felt he was trying to ignore Lucy on the platform, not face up to someone whose life he thought he had ruined. He knew who she was.

Thanks KJ. We can always rely on you to go the extra mile on these discussion. If you're the optimistic sort, you could even read into it that the turnaround back to Donovan had slowly and subtly begun in him again too... :-) I'm a believer...and IMO Donovan makes an impact on Daniel too.

Just getting back to Bipola, I do not believe that DQ was suffering Bipola at all. I think he was in some sort of psychosis as a result of deep depression. His depressed induded psychosis would account for the altered state of mind but, all the time he would remeber his history. A person suffreing a severe depression induced psychosis, in most cases, will know what they were about, but at the same time will have an inability to take control of what they are doing. Does that make sense?????? Bipola symptoms can often look similar, however, people suffering regular episodes, or even one severe case, do not usually fully recover. In the beginning of the movie I thought that the prognosis was aimed toward scizophrenia due to the voices he was hearing when in his hospital room listening to the radio. But these thoughts were short lived. BTW Electric shock therapy is illegal in Australia, but I believe every second business person here, is on some form of prozac.

PS if anyone here happens to be a business person from Aus please consider yourselves the first person.

Very funny Maureen, and of course, politically correct. ;-)

ECT (electroconvulsive therapy) is done under general anesthesia and as Evelyn's son says, is performed infrequently in the US these days (interesting that it's illegal in Aus). Over the past 20 years drugs have improved to the point of revolutionizing mental health treatment and would be the first approach. ECTs are not without risk (as is anything done under GA) and are expensive because they need to be done in high tech settings with monitoring, etc. I used to work with an anesthesiologist who called them 'jumpstarts' (if you've ever seen one done, you'll know why). But enough about treatment. IMO Daniel is restored simply...because (same reason Larry goes mad in ATA). Same goes for his diagnosis. (KJArt) On that station platform you could see how hard that he was concentrating on NOT listening to what Lucy was saying to him. And what Lucy was saying to him was that Donovan had not been a failure. On the contrary, he had made a great positive change in those whose lives he had touched. But Daniel was in a powerful state of Denial ... he must not listen, he would not hear! (Daniel -- Denial ; I love it!) Good one, KJ. (I hadn't gotten past the repeated D.Q. use). As Lucy approaches Daniel, the audience is left without a doubt that Daniel has been thoroghly restored. His phone conversation concerns putting someone out of business. Not a trace of Donovan remains--or is there? (Karen) He knew who she was. I agree. (KJ) Maybe the "turnaround" in his perception of Donovan ... that he was not utterly insane for harboring such unrealistic notions, that maybe it was Daniel who was a bit contemptible for disbelieving in them ... was reflected by the turnaround and stare after the one who made him see that maybe Donovan wasn't a failure after all! Maybe Donovan hadn't been TOTALLY crazy... ...maybe Daniel Quinn, like Don Quixote, is nothing.

(Maureen) A person suffreing a severe depression induced psychosis, in most cases, will know what they were about, but at the same time will have an inability to take control of what they are doing. Does that make sense?????? Not really in this case. Donovan cannot be said to not be in control of what he's doing, on the contrary, he takes action every time. But did you notice how, when he gets off the bus in the beginning, he says "In the lion's den", or something to the same effect? And that he used to work for Windmill? So he's not completely "another", and a case might even perhaps be made for his using the Pannicks for his own purposes against the company. This is just another angle, it does not mean I believe this is the right one.

(Gi) And that he used to work for Windmill? How is that possible? Daniel Quinn is a millionaire. Windmill was owned by this Kathleen Gorman (?) person. There are two strange bits: (1) when Mackie asks if he knows him and DQ says "if you met me before, you'd remember" [great line and delivery btw] and (2) at the end, when it looks like Mackie is looking Daniel up in his computer as an employee record. As DQ is a well-known millionaire businessman type, he would be recognizable to the business community, but that last thing is rather strange. Must watch again soon.

Throughout my re-watch last week, I was wondering for whom/what Daniel worked. I thought it was odd that Mackie wouldn't recognize him if they worked for the same company (although it was 'multinational'). Toward the end, it's made clear Daniel works for Windmill. At one point during Donovan's 'confessional', Lucy says 'Windmill?' and he doesn't refute it (I don't recall the exact words). Mackie *is* looking up Daniel's employment record. At the top of the computer screen there's a Windmill logo and it says "personnel" (isn't it wonderful he has such open access, Heide?). Afterward, it made sense--all those comments about "into the belly of the beast," "I knew they'd [Windmill] do this, it's standard procedure," "anything to keep the wheels turning," etc. Who better to know how Windmill works, but him? (Karen) Windmill was owned by this Kathleen Gorman (?) person. Didn't you get a kick out of her giant portrait adorning Mackie's office? It sounds as though Daniel Quinn is in charge of mergers and acquisitions; Windmill's a big corporation, he's well paid.

(Eileen), maybe Daniel Quinn, like Don Quixote, is nothing. Or totally mad. (Karen) Windmill was owned by this Kathleen Gorman (?) person. (Eileen), Didn't you get a kick out of her giant portrait adorning Mackie's office? I thought she was his wife and they used that shot with her picture in Mackie's office as symbol of all he was going against (family too), and therefore making the end more relevant.

You thought Gorman was Daniel's wife? Hmmmm, that would work. I wish we got a clearer shot of the wife being ushered into his room in the hospital. I thought her hair was longer than Kathleen's. Will have to watch again.

Would it be possible that Daniel Quinn's reaction to Sapas' death might have triggered a type of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder?

I was going to take another looksie at the wife too before I posted again because it would fit...sort of. Quinn gives off the air of someone much higher up than a guy in M&A. My feeling was that he was the owner of a big multinational corporation, but that his wife ran the transport company. Perhaps, Windmill started it all (hence his affinity for playing with the train set), but that he had gone on to bigger and better things. (Eileen) I thought it was odd that Mackie wouldn't recognize him if they worked for the same company He looked familiar to him. I would recognize the president of my company in an instant, whereas the chairman of the board, not necessarily...of course, my company was a bit different than the norm.

(Cheryl B) ...Would it be possible that Daniel Quinn's reaction to Sapas' death might have triggered a type of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? That is exactly my take on it. Most people's basic personalities are pretty unchangeable (that's why basing a marriage decision on the expectation of changed behavior is pretty foolish ... that's VERY rare). But though our basic personalities stay pretty much intact, what can be changed is value systems, which are especially heavily influenced by our surrounding society. Religious cults depend on the power of the peer group to totally change people's opinion of what is and is not important. This in turn changes their relationships with the world by changing the things that are and are not valuable. Beliefs are based on what we see as True or Untrue about how the world works. Change in one's perception of even one "fact" within one's system, and that may throw the entire Construct of Truth into doubt, and all Hell breaks loose. We are creatures of habit after all, and are uncomfortable with change. The idea that the world was not the center of the Universe threatened an entire Dogma for the simple reason that if that were not true, then other parts of the Construct could not be taken literally either. When doubt enters the picture, beliefs often exit completely or are distorted, sometimes beyond recognition. Trauma often creates whole new realities in perception. The shock of realizing that his decisions were directly instrumental in murdering another human being shook Daniel's whole Construct of what was and was not true of the world, what was and was not important. His personality did not change -- he was a take-charge, take-risks, do-it-now kind of guy and that transferred intact into his new belief System. It was "What was True" that had changed. Donovan emerged as a new person to act within this new reality. Unfortunately, if the things one believes in don't pan out, then the new belief system is threatened, too. Donovan hadn't had the chance to see if his new value system would bear fruit. The facts at that time appeared just the opposite. Therefore it was easy to influence him to revert to the old familiar world and relationships that were long habit. Just as we have ways to "deprogram" cult members, there are ways to deprogram the need for atonment. That is why the end of this little gem is so deliciously uncertain. There are a multitude of possibilies -- which can become the subject of much discussion! Hee hee! I love to stir up the coals! KJ

Thanks KJ and Cheryl..you keep bringing up new options for the guy's condition. I thought her hair was longer than Kathleen's. And she is younger too.But that giant photo in the Windmill office was there for a purpose. I , too, thought Daniel worked for Windmill.(BTW thank you all for filling me in on bits of the dialogue.)But what about the first scene when some ole guy is getting a commendation in a RR yard? How did that fit in?

Hmmm, they make a point of saying Kathleen Gorman was the founder.... first scene when some ole guy is getting a commendation in a RR yard? How did that fit in? Windmill has just taken over the Port Clyde franchise and is integrating the old transport lines into its system. Old company meet new company's local management (Mackie) to the cheers of the paid crowd.

Another cute touch at the beginning is that the radio call in guy is the director.

OK, Mrs. Gorman is not Daniel's wife. The woman who goes into the hospital room is not her. He confesses to Lucy that he was a business man, a corporate raider type. He talks about "his company." Lucy does say Windmill, but he doesn't acknowledge it in any way. Somehow I just don't see an M&A guy down in the trenches, calling the shots in an operation like the drivers' protest. If he were a big wheel with the company, why didn't anyone recognize him from the newspapers or from Good Morning Scotland?

(Gi) And that he used to work for Windmill? (Karen) How is that possible? Daniel Quinn is a millionaire. /.../ As DQ is a well-known millionaire businessman type, he would be recognizable to the business community, Umm, where does it say Daniel is a millionaire? That bag full of money of Donovan's wasn't several million ... for that he could have bought a whole fleet of new buses. Maybe a couple of hundred thousand at the very most. That is "Liquid assets" of a very well-paid man, but not necessarily a millionaire. (Eileen) Mackie *is* looking up Daniel's employment record. At the top of the computer screen there's a Windmill logo and it says "personnel" Yup. Very illustrative, wouldn't you say? (Karen) If he were a big wheel with the company, why didn't anyone recognize him from the newspapers... Maybe because he wasn't a "big wheel". He had power in the company, there's no doubt about that. But just as in the assistants to the top executives who really do the dirty work for them behind the scenes, he might keep a very low profile because of the nature of what he does -- he is probably a strategist of sorts. He is very well recompensed for his brains and his ruthlessness, but well-known? -- I should think that would be antithical to his success if they saw him coming.... ;-)

(KJ) he might keep a very low profile because of the nature of what he does -- he is probably a strategist of sorts. He is very well recompensed for his brains and his ruthlessness, but well-known? -- I should think that would be antithical to his success if they saw him coming.... ;-) Sorry, but these guys are rarely low profile.

I do not think that DQ worked for Windmill at all. I would say he was more into the mega millions and brokerage side of things. Putting huge deals together, squeezing out the small companies, bullying others to merge or go under, that sort of thing. I think his involvement with Windmill may have been in this sort of capacity.

Your query why wasn't he recognised in Scotland - he worked for the company in Sussex - some 400 miles or so from Glasgow. The boss in Scotland might have recognised him if he appeared in a business suit - but he started off by stopping the train like a vandal.

True, Anne. (Karen), Somehow I just don't see an M&A guy down in the trenches, calling the shots in an operation like the drivers' protest. At one point when Windmill gets two buses on the P&Q route, he comments One in front and one behind as usual it has started. (Something to that affect) He certainly worked for the company. OK, Mrs. Gorman is not Daniel's wife. The woman who goes into the hospital room is not her. We only see from behind, Karen. It would work better for the story if she were. :-) And length of hair is not an issue. We did see Gorman in a flashback, no?

(AnnH) he worked for the company in Sussex - some 400 miles or so from Glasgow. When did they say he was at a company location (or headquarters) in Sussex? I don't recall. At one point, Mrs. Gorman makes a comment about Windmill being a "local" company, which I took as having started up in Scotland. It could however have another meaning having to do with Windmill's swallowing up local companies, giving an illusion of being local. The bothersome point about Daniel working for Windmill is toward the end, when Mackie tells him about Mrs. Gorman's business philosophy. The bit about not only squashing competitors but more importantly they must be seen to fail. If Daniel did indeed work for the company, he would surely know this. No, Moon, it is not her. Gorman is an older woman. You see her at the management meeting. The woman who walks into Daniel's hospital room is younger.

If he didn't work for Windmill...why the comment when he sees the Windmill advert as he gets off the train: "Into the belly of the beast." It connotes some type of familiarity with the firm and its nefarious dealings.. Otherwise, the remark makes no sense.

I never thought Daniel was a millionnaire. Would the owner, or the owner's consort, be the one to decide on local anti-strike attitudes? He would perhaps say "No negotiations with strikers", but decide whether a bus stops or not before the demonstrators? Perhaps not. I think he was definitely an employee, but Mackie did not know him because they probably did not go to the same meetings at headquarters.

Somebody at the top would make the decision to order the trucks on through when confronted by strikers. No lowly director of ops or middle management official is going take the responsibility for an action that would surely result in violence. Daniel was the one who made the decision. He felt the consequences of it personally. He finally saw the human beings involved, rather than the cold impersonal business he had tended, the balance sheets, the pro formas, etc. And...I have given up on his being married to Gorman. ;-) Into the belly of the beast? Well, he specifically came to Port Clyde to take on Windmill, having heard (on the radio) how that company had taken over a new franchise and was characteristically ignoring its ridership, the little people.

Karen, I too thought Daniel might be an independent corporate-consultant-raider type (like Harrison Ford's character in Working Girl) but how would that explain his Windmill personnel record? Whereas I agree that Lucy's 'Windmill?' question was ambiguous, that computer screen clinched it for me. I agree with KJArt and Gi here. And I agree with Karen that Kathleen Gorman is not Daniel's wife. Sorry Moon. Definitely not, but that would have been interesting plot-wise. I missed that reference to his working for the company in Sussex, Anne. Can you tell us approximately when it comes up? I still can't understand some of the dialogue, but thought I caught most of Colin's.

I know, there's no getting around that computer screen! It just seems too implausible for him to be a mere employee, handing out briefcases full of cash, no matter what rank. Works better in my mind if he's a hotshot businesman and an owner of a similar type business. That's it. I'm done. :-)

And I agree with Karen that Kathleen Gorman is not Daniel's wife. Sorry Moon. Definitely not, but that would have been interesting plot-wise. Too bad, it would have created more tension. I do feel that he is somehow related Mrs. Gorman. Is it just me? Why would the "family" care to get him into a mental institution to rehabilitate him unless he were related to the company? He does go back to the same job. He is definitely not an ordinary executive. Why is he not tried in court for the death of Mr. Salas(?) it was manslaughter and he gave the order. He was rich and liquidated whatever assets he was able to in a short time he probably had lots more tied up. But he just wanted to get away quickly. (Mr. Quick all the way) ;-))

(Moon) Why would the "family" care to get him into a mental institution to rehabilitate him unless he were related to the company? Because he's giving away all their money?!

(Eileen),Because he's giving away all their money?! It is his money. Otherwise they can add robbery to the manslaughter charge.

(Moon) It is his money. Otherwise they can add robbery to the manslaughter charge. It was an accident, your honor--and besides, we've already entered the insanity plea. (Sorry, Moon I just had to do that) :-)

(Moon) He was rich and liquidated whatever assets he was able to in a short time Yes, let's see. I tiptoe out of a mental facility, go to the nearest ATM, and fill up my bag with cash. No, the cash was strapped. He withdrew whatever was in a deposit type of account. Seems like a lot to have in that form.

One of the flashbacks where South of England and I am sure Brighton was mentioned which of course is in Sussex - Windmill was all over the country - i.e. like Virgin transport, I travelled a lot on trains when I was last in England and felt much the same way as D.Q. I am watching it again with three firth friends on Saturday so I will ask each one of them to look out for it.

LOL, Jana! The trial continues. (Karen), Yes, let's see. I tiptoe out of a mental facility, go to the nearest ATM, and fill up my bag with cash. He does not start out in the mental asylum, he ends up there. No, the cash was strapped. He withdrew whatever was in a deposit type of account. Seems like a lot to have in that form. In Europe people have large bank accounts. They are not as used to morgaging everything they own as they do in the States. It is his money. Would they let him resume his job if he had also stolen their money? Only if he were related to them and therefore it is his money too. :-)

Stolen? No one said or implied he had stolen their money. I just mean it seemed a lot of money to have in a plain deposit account. I would think it was invested or in a time deposit account, if anything. Donovan told Lucy he was in a very nice facility, not a mental asylum.

(Moon) It is his money If my hubby became depressed and suddenly began giving out 'our' money to strangers, I would be hard pressed to ignore such abberrant behavior and would see to it that he got some help. I interpret "family" in the literal sense--Daniel's family (wife), not Windmill, had him 'sectioned.' I don't know much about commitment laws in Scotland, but would find it very unusual that an employer had the ability to section someone.

As we watched the tv show the other night, my friend said "*That's* Colin fFirth!*"

Hi - can I add my two cents re DQ ? I've been catching up on the posts and regarding the scene where Mackie asks Daniel if they had met before, I thought Daniel's answer was a sly way of saying, "You're too low in the food chain to have ever traveled in my circle. Maybe you saw my picture in the company annual report, but you have never met me. Otherwise, you'd know it because I was a mean son-of-a-bitch and would have had you for breakfast." Yeah, I thought Daniel worked for Windmill at the very senior executive level, maybe even a right-hand person to Mrs. Gorman. When he had the last meeting with Mackie, where Mackie said that the local companies must appear to fail, I truly expected Daniel to say something like, "Yeah, I taught her that." I thought he had that look in his face (will have to rewatch, maybe just my imagination). And what a pleasure to hear his real speaking voice again. Any chance that this will have a theatrical release in the US? I think it was that good. And what a nice change to see Colin in a movie that seems to stand on its own merits, not merely carried by Colin. That's it!

Hi Donna! Nice to see you here. Of course you may add your two cents. :-) Glad you agree that Donovan acted like a person very high up. About DQ's future, I've just posted something on 129. However, there's no chance of theatrical. Strictly television, but they're running into resistance here because of to the accent.

(Karen)Glad you agree that Donovan acted like a person very high up I agree as well. Though not the owner of the company. And the money is his, not Windmill's - but it is his wife's too. Although the money he offered to Mrs. Salas could be the company's.

The money would be his. He felt "personal" remorse and responsibility for having ordered the aggressive action. No company is going to cut an expense check for that...unless a court so ordered, following a civil trial. Any payment by the company could be taken as an admission of legal liaibility.

As we watched the tv show the other night, my friend said "*That's* Colin fFirth!*" Terry, congratulations on keeping such commendable company! :-)

(Donna DL) Yeah, I thought Daniel worked for Windmill at the very senior executive level, maybe even a right-hand person to Mrs. Gorman. ...But in Southern UK. I remember his mentioning take-overs and tactics and he used English areas as examples. I do remember Sussex being mentioned. After my having rewatched the end, I think you've got a very good handle on the situation . With that interpretation I can easily go along with it. (Karen) Glad you agree that Donovan acted like a person very high up ...And glad you agree "the Beast" was his very own Windmill Transport company. (Karen) About DQ's future, I've just posted something on 129. However, there's no chance of theatrical. Strictly television, but they're running into resistance here because of to the accent. And no wonder... Hate to sound like a wet blanket here, [as I have only seen it in its entirelty one and a half times] But my initial reaction after the first viewing was extreme disappointment. After having heard all the praises heaped upon it, I was prepared for an excellent presentation, but I came away rather bitter because my impression was that despite the excellent performance by ODB that I had missed 85% of the dialog and was totally at sea most of the time as far as the Pannick family was concerned. I didn't stop and rewind during any of it, mind you, but took it straight as it came as if a broadcast on my local PBS station. I could recognize the quality of the production, the excellence of the acting by most of the characters, and I knew with careful replay and persistence that I would "get" most of it, but I was trying to watch it from the point of view of the one-time viewer. From that point of view, in the U.S.it would probably not even be watched to the end by many viewers because of the level of frustration in my inability to comprehend what the h*** was being said. Personally, I can see that (like FP) it will probably come to be one of my favorite performances of his, but many people won't take the opportunity to record and re-view it, as I am privileged to do. For them, it will probably be a reaction of: "What we have here is a failure to communicate." I hope I am wrong, however. Maybe I am especially handicapped in the comprehension of dialects. I certainly hope so! :-) (Bethan --in 129): RE. the Scottish accent in DQ...didn't the mega successful "Trainspotting" have subtitles? Now you're talking!! KJ

I understood most of the dialogue in DQ. Of course, there are lost words/phrases here and there, particularly with Clive. Even if I couldn't understand the exact words, I thought I caught the gist of what was being said. IMO there's alot less slang used in DQ than in FP. I was confused about who was who during the frenetic introduction to the Pannick household--on second viewing I caught on that it was the previous boarder leaving in a huff because Sandy's trains kept him up at night. Didn't you love Gran? "Quick and Pannick Bus Service...HOW may I help YOU?"

WELCOME DONNAStick around.... (Eileen)..IMO there's a lot less slang used in DQ than in FP. I didn't understand it either, til I got the screenplay .Then I wondered why I bothered;-) On the other hand, this production even with the accent problem, is definitely worth the effort. And I'm slowly understanding the dialogue. So far I'm a six-timer

I find the most difficult parts to understand were Lucy and Sandy's conversation while they walk across the pedestrian bridge (near the beginning--the one that ends when she asks him to meet her by the clock) and any conversation between Lucy and Clive. The shrillness of Lucy's raised voice is akin to nails scratching a blackboard. *shiver*

Months ago, we read about Colin cracking an "end of scene party" joke. Now, after seeing DQ, I couldn't recall which scene and just found the answer at (in?) Karen's Bucket: Firth is unwinding in a rather fancy Japanese restaurant following a hot afternoon in the central Glasgow studio. Director David Blair, who collaborated with Franceschild on her two previous hits, has been driving him and Brown hard in a scene where they return home defiantly singing "We Shall Not Be Moved" after a punishing day battling Windmill buses. When Blair finally says he�s happy after numerous takes, Firth jokily asks: "Shall we have an end-of-scene party?" (from the post-Irish film festival review)

Men like this film - that is important. My husband and a good friend have watched and my did they get involved. For myself I loved the reality of it - it was like it was being acted it was like it was a real happening - I love that sort of thing, you become involved its not like Sylvester Stylone - always over the top, I know this probably controversial - but surely that was what made Pride and Prejudice different in the Colin Firth version - ever see Laurence Olivier in it - it was way of the top and rather silly. You believed in Lizzy and Darcy. In D.Q. much the same happens and Lucy was absolutely brilliant so was the Gran who is a famous character actor seen often on T.V. in U.K. and Oz. No this film was brilliant but I fear not for the young masses.

correction not being acted but a real happening.

I absolutely agree with everything you have said Anne, especially the bit about believing in CF's & JE's Darcy & Lizzie.

(Anne)...absolutely brilliant so was the Gran who is a famous character actor seen often on T.V. in U.K. and Oz. The wonderful Liz Smith, she was also in "Apartment Zero".

Yes Gran is often seen here - she is in the new Oliver Twist too to be shown next week on our ABC. I saw Donovan Quick again last Friday with three firth friends - I understood most of it. I anyone wants any help I would be only to happy to oblige - write to me at ommin@icenet.com.au

What did you other firth friends think of it Anne?

(Anne H)I saw Donovan Quick again last Friday with three firth friends - I understood most of it. I envy you. I also want to know what your friends thought of it. I tend to go with the theory that Daniel worked for Windmill. If he didn't there are too many clues left out there hanging.But I'm still confused about Kathleen Gorman, ...the board meeting, the large photo in the office...all incidental? I like the way women are protrayed in this film, BTW.

A woman wrote DQ. (not incidental btw) ;-) What do you find confusing about Kathleen Gorman?

What do you find confusing about Kathleen Gorman? IMO there is more to her presence in the story than I'm seeing. More than just the ruthless director of the board. We eliminated the theory that she's Daniel's wife.Why does she surface so often?

My three friends loved D.Q. none of us had any trouble understanding the accent - perhaps it is easier for Aussies than in the U.S. because we have lots of programmes from Scotland on our T.V.s and of course our ABC only puts Aussie and British programmes on - very very rarely an American one - in fact I can't think of one. I really rate this one of his very best - the reality of the dialogue made you believe you were watching something real. Yes he did work for Windmill - in the top echelons of power - maybe related to Gorman. Which was why he was back with them - although I sense on probation!

(Anne) very very rarely an American one - in fact I can't think of one. Wot, no Leprechauns? Perhaps, if you're very lucky, you'll be treated to a week-long broadcast of The Tenth Kingdom. Camryn Manheim as Snow White should not be missed (hold on a minute while I lose my breakfast). (Evelyn) IMO there is more to her presence in the story than I'm seeing. An interesting question. Agree that the overlarge portrait was sending a message of some sort: how much the big corporate muckety-mucks are to be revered? Rank has power? Her character also illustrates the great dichotomy between a company's internal image (can't remember the rah-rah slogan used in that video) and how it really operates--crushing the competition with ruthlessness, dirty tricks, etc. Gorman endorsed the former, while Daniel knew the real slogan: keep the wheels turning, at all costs.

Sorry to be so late on this DQ discussion. I'll try not to repeat too much of what others have written. Overall, I liked the film, and actually had little trouble with the accents. I even understood Clive most of the time.;-) Watching a conversion, you do lose sound quality. Good script, engaging story, very good acting all the way around, especially by the woman who played Lucy. RE: Kathleen Gorman. I think her purpose was to be the embodiment of "evil"--the personification of Windmill's philosophy of (paraphrasing here) not just beating the competition, but showing them to fail. Also, I think it was more than a coincidence that she resembled Margaret Thatcher just a bit. I do think that the film was rather simplistic in how it drew the "good guys" vs. the "bad guys." I was waiting for Margaret Hamilton to fly in on her broom.;-) In real life, of course, things are rarely this black and white, and reputable companies succeed primarily through merit and smart management, not by humiliating/carrying out vendettas against the competition. I prefer films that maintain more gray areas--those are the most interesting to me in terms of presenting moral dilemmas. The deck was far too stacked in this one, IMO. Still, lots of positives here, CF did a good job and looked great, and it's always nice to see him in a contemporary role.

(Mari)In real life, of course, things are rarely this black and white, and reputable companies succeed primarily through merit and smartmanagement, not by humiliating/carrying out vendettas against the competition. Thanks Mari, good insight. But we know this was not a documentary..fiction all the way. Even his medical condition and reactions.I thought the adaptation to Don Q. was the cleverest part.Still wonder about Kathleen Gorman though..I think she is more than symbolic.

(Mari) I think it was more than a coincidence that she resembled Margaret Thatcher just a bit. Excellent observation. I think you've nailed Gorman's purpose to show the effects of Thatcherite policies. Didn't she start the privitization movement? What was she called, "the Iron something"?

"the iron lady"! - kept a very tight ship, very singled minded, nobody else's opinion seemed to matter, her downfall I think.

...I think you've nailed Gorman's purpose to show the effects of Thatcherite policies. Didn't she start the privitization movement? "Privatization" was mentioned in Mackie's office with Donovan. "The evils of privatization"...aha...good subtitle to DQ. The large photo of Gorman in the office could emblematic to a Thatcher-like satire of Tory politicians' adulation to her policies. Board of Directors meeting(Cabinet meetings) and video of her speech (before Parliament).....hey, we've got it.Thanks Mari...you ignited the spark.

Could someone explain a bit more about privatization--specifically, would a sole company, in this case Windmill, have been awarded an exclusive contract to operate in a given area? In other words, is it a monopoly, or is it possible for a competitor (Q&P) to legally operate in that area? Some other questions: assuming that Daniel had worked for Windmill (and I think it's pretty clear he did), why wouldn't Donovan have known that Windmill was technically meeting its requirement to run that route 4 times per day? He seems to remeber everything else. Also, why wouldn't Daniel have been charged in Mr. Sapas's (sp?) death? Is anyone familiar with the "sectioning" laws in Scotland? How could Daniel have been committed? Here, you'd have to prove that the peson was a physical danger to himself or others. One more, and then I promise I'll stop for now;-) If Donovan's purpose was to restore realistic bus service to the route, why didn't he quit after Windmill added their own buses according to his time schedule? I'd have thought he would have moved on to the next area needing his "help."

"Privatization" means taking government-owned and operated businesses out of the public sector. Competititive market forces would govern who operated where under general guidelines, as we have for the telcos and utilities. You know, used to be that our municipal govt owned and operated the garbage trucks. Now, it is done by private companies under contracts awarded through supposedly competitive means. (Mari) Also, why wouldn't Daniel have been charged in Mr. Sapas's (sp?) death? Here's where we need Kate, Drool's resident legal expert. I'm guessing the laws are significantly different between the US and UK. Is there a huge ambulance-chasing contingent because it may not be a criminal. I'll see if I can raise Kate over at ROP. I'd bet she watched it as she's back in Australia now. why didn't he quit after Windmill added their own buses according to his time schedule? My own opinion is that he knew they wouldn't continue it. Windmill would revert to form and abandon the route.