(Sue) Roland and Maud were not half as interesting (Karen)Ah...but they are IMO. It *could* be that you were reading it with a little bias toward one character. Lemme think! Now why might that be? I'm caught. I have to acknowledge an high partiality for darling Jennifer. For the record, I am also a GP fan and still don't think Maud is as interesting as Christabel. Christabel was struggling against much more stringent society rules than Maud ever had to. Plus, Christabel had the better love story and I am always a sucker for a good romance. All right, perhaps I have a bias that I cannot overcome. :-)) We'll have to discuss what makes Maud interesting when everyone finishes the book. I guess Ehle and Firth and Ehle and Fiennes ain't no Gere and Roberts or Hanks and Ryan. They would need big boxoffice in addtion to their superior acting and chemistry together. As for Christabel's beauty or lack thereof. Jennifer is more attractive than Christabel, but I think she can be toned down a bit-pull back her hair, drab clothes, pale make-up. I just hope they don't put some big caps on her teeth.

No one has ever said that about Julia Roberts and Richard Gere. I most respectfully disagree. It took 10 years and I wish it had taken 100. Loved PW; hated RB. Repairing are v.v.v. rare and, these days, don't often work as they did during the golden age of studio-controlled stars. BTW, the Lincoln reporter said that the Possession crew went straight to Whitby, as her friend spotted them on the pier. So that would be more scenes with GP and AE as they are re-creating the trip.

And Sue, I think *all* of the characters are equally interesting, with so much going on that it's difficult to know where to start. Here's the region where they went: About midway between Robin Hood's Bay and Ravenscar is the Boogle Hole. It's real and it's on maps.

Have to agree with Karen...don't think JE will play with those guys again...but she is running out of the good looking ones...;-) I too think CB would have made a good Christabel..esp the long face ,but then she played opposite JN in An Ideal Husband ;-) JF would have been a terrific Roland. Possession crew went straight to Whitby, as her friend spotted them on the pier. Thanks Karen....I wonder if they'll also shoot JE and JN there now while they're at that location.

(Evelyn) I wonder if they'll also shoot JE and JN there now while they're at that location Would seem likely. My guess is that they're doing GP's stuff now, so that she can head off to Toronto for the Duets screening on Saturday and then do some junket stuff for the film's opening the following week in the States. So while she's here, JE and JN's location work would be done.

Evening Standard had a side article about NLB and NB. Ended with this: About Possession: "It will be a surprise for some, others will say it's a natural progression," says LaBute. "There are two really f***ed-up couples, and who better to deal with them?" Argh! He's the last person... *shaking my head in disgust* http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/hottx/film/film.html?in_review_id=312425&in_review_text_id=256796

Karen says: I still have huge qualms about this production and the director. NLB has no track record for this kind of major production and there's nothing in his past repertoire to suggest he has the vision and understanding of the subject matter ********** The New Yorker this week gives a terrible review for Nurse Bette, with NLB taking a lot of the heat. I just can't imagine him directing Possession, this most romantic of romantic stories, but then... You guys are ahead of me. I too read it ten years ago and couldn't put it down then. Have a first edition, I was so eager to buy it. Started to reread last week, but the eyes aren't what they used to be. Go ahead with the discussion. It will all come back, I know. I read the poetry with the story, They seemed to belong together, and you learned something about C and A from the poems. Murph

Mary, we haven't yet started our discussion. Please hold off posting any critiques. We will start on Monday. Have saved your article or you can repost then. Sorry. :-(

From the Scarborough Evening News (printed yesterday, so filming today): FILM STAR LOOKS IN GWYNETH Paltrow is coming to the Yorkshire Coast. The Oscar-winning actress is filming scenes from her latest movie Possession at the Raven Hall Hotel in Ravenscar tomorrow.\ Crew members have been at the hotel preparing the set since Sunday and getting things ready for the arrival of the star, who is staying at a secret location. The crew, from Shepperton Studios in Middlesex, are staying at the hotel, which will be featured in Possession, based on AS Byatt's Booker-prizewinning novel set along the North Yorkshire coast. Raven Hall Hotel sales and marketing manager Yvonne Rounding said: "The outside of the hotel will be predominantly featured with six horses and carriages. The production crew have been using a local stable. "Things are getting hectic and it doesn't help that we are fully booked." The film, directed by Neil LaBute, follows the story of two literary detectives investigating the lives of two Victorian poets. Paltrow, who is rumoured to be back with Oscar-winner Ben Affleck in what is one of Hollywood's most on-off relationships, plays the part of Professor Maud Bailey, an academic who researches the life of poet Christabel LaMotte. It is not the first time Paltrow has made films in England. She made Sliding Doors and Emma here and caused a storm when she criticised British food and diet. Starring opposite her in Possession is Aaron Eckhart, who plays the part of an American scholar in London on a fellowship to study the poet Randolph Henry Ash. The pair fall in love as they follow a trail of clues across England to the continent, the same journey taken by the Victorian poets. Whitby was also chosen as a location, with filming starting there yesterday and features the purchase of two Whitby jet brooches. AS Byatt, who is the sister of author Margaret Drabble, was born in Yorkshire and set some of Possession in Robin Hood's Bay and Boggle Hole. ~~~~~~~~~~ Horses and carriage? I'd say this is where JN and JE will be shooting today. ;-D

Here's a nice pic of the hotel where they are filming: And here's their website: http://homepages.go.com/~ravenhall1/title.htm

Oh Karen....I want the Bay Hood view room with the champ and chocolates... What a glorious place for Ash and Christabel's first night....:-)))

Haven't read it yet, but very long article about Neil LaBute in LA Weekly: http://www.laweekly.com/ink/00/42/cover-dargis.shtml Ack!! Says he lives somewhere outside of Chicago! The part about Possession: ...just last week he began production in Northern England on Possession, a lavish romance set in the Victorian era and the present day, based on the novel by A.S. Byatt. A fan of the book, LaBute sought out the project, and though there was already a screenplay by Laura Jones (The Portrait of a Lady), whom he credits with "breaking the back of the book," he plunged into a rewrite. The stars are Gwyneth Paltrow, Jeremy Northam, Jennifer Ehle and the director's college friend and regular collaborator Aaron Eckhart; the companies footing the bill are USA Films and Warner Bros. Much as in Nurse Betty, in which Zellweger plays a woman who's forced to flee her home in order to discover her true self, Neil LaBute is following his own glittering road.

Thanks for the picture Karen. It looks appropriately romantic. Does anyone have a recommendation for another Byatt book?

(Karen) Ack!! Says he lives somewhere outside of Chicago! LOL! "Of all the gin joints in all the world . . ." Maybe you could go into a fugue state and visit him sometime.;-)

(susanne) Does anyone have a recommendation for another Byatt book? Ha, now this I can answer!!! YES!!! You can read her short stories "The Matisse Stories" "Sugar and Other Stories" "Angels and Insects: A Novella" Her novels: Tetralogy (sp?) "The Virgin in the Garden" Alexander Weddeburn (has CF written all over it!) "Still Life" "Babel Tower" I was fried after reading it! But loved it! She's in the process of writing the fourth and I believe sequel to all of them! "The Game" sibling rivalry amazingly, her sister is Margaret Drabble....:)

(Sue) Thanks for the picture Karen. It looks appropriately romantic LOL! I didn't want to scare anyone by posting it here. ;-D Try The Game first. It's short...before you embark on the series.

From the September 6 Northern Echo: IN POSSESSION OF THE PAST THE tourist port of Whitby is suddenly looking even more picturesque - after movie-makers wove their magic. Parts of the town have been transported back in time to the Victorian era for a big screen version of A S Byatt's Booker Prize-winning novel, Possession. Oscar-winning Hollywood actress Gwyneth Paltrow - the star of Sliding Doors - is starring in the Warner Brothers production, which also features Jennifer Ehle and Jeremy Northam, among others. Yesterday, filming focused on the famous 199 steps, an area which has been turned into a Victorian market, with dozens of locally-recruited extras dressed in period costume (pictured). Other filming will be taking place on the beach and West Pier over the next few days. ~~~~~~~~ Wonder about that picture...

Whitby harbor - you can see the 199 steps going up to the Abbey West pier: From a Whitby website: Victorian Jet Works: Situated near the bottom of the 199 steps, this building holds the only surviving Victorian Jet Workshop, plus working modern craftsman. http://www.whitbyjet.co.uk/ The 199 Steps: From these centuries old streets, 199 steps lead up to the parish Church of St Mary, one of the finest Anglo Saxon churches in the country, featuring carved pews made by ship's carpenters and craftsmen from Whitby's once booming whaling fleet. Its churchyard is famous for providing the setting which inspired Bram Stoker to write his classic novel - Dracula. Dickens and Tennyson are also known to have enjoyed the hospitality of Whitby's ancient inns. Nice page here: http://www.yorkshire-tour.co.uk/whitby.htm

I like Neil LaBute's work as a writer and director. It may well also be noted that there is no accounting for some people's tastes. To me, LaBute's dark, disharmonious comedy is reminiscent of Balzac. I find him an interesting choice to direct "Possesion"; a choice which I like. I think his modern sensibility will provide an interesting juxtaposition to, and commentary upon the material.

Thank you Karen for posting the beautiful photos of Whitby.

Thanks, Karen! The Victorian Market will probably be where they find the brooches.

I think his modern sensibility will provide an interesting juxtaposition to, and commentary upon the material. The book was written in 1990 and most of it takes place in the present.

Thanks Laura and Karen for the book recommendations. If any of her other books are half as good as Possession than I shall be happy with any of them. I could never call Possession dull. I had trouble putting the 500 page book down. Needless to say, I did not get anything done for a whole day. I read until the last 20 pages and saved them for the next day. I put off picking up the book again until the evening because I just did not want it to be over. The locations for the filming look just gorgeous.

Karen...the Yorkshire website is a gem....there is also a link to Robin Hood Bay...did Ash and Christabel ever go there? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I choose to ignore Anna..but please delete her postings, Karen. And any future ones that fall in that inpolitic category. Thank you.

That should be impolitic....but you get the general idea.

Hmmm.. I guess someone was possessed??? The pictures were beautiful. Just back from Atlanta and missed a whole bunch, however, remembered that today is someone's 40th bday...:) That must be on another board...;)

From a Film Festival report in the Toronto Sun: As for what else the future holds, Paltrow next returns to England, where she is working until the end of October filming Possession, a movie based on the A.S. Byatt novel.

Beware, from this point on, there be dragons

Looks like a too friendly dragon though. Need a more sinister dragon... :) Can't take to heart other people's opinions. Found out I must be more like a duck. OR was that I have to duck..... (does that dragon have wings???)

FYI, the dragon had *nothing* to do with that other message. (Think old maps)

Am about 150 pages into Possession (well, it is football season). Started reading the posts here but have come across too many quasi-spoilers for my taste so quit around #75 (should be reading book, not posts, anyway). Just wanted issue a warning *heehee* that I'll be joining the discussion at some later point. PS. So far cannot fathom AE as Roland. Reading here that the character's been changed to an American (obviously to accomodate AE's casting--*tsk*) helps. Am also concerned about NLB directing this. Will be interesting to see his interpretation, to say the least.

This is a reposting from Charlotte. She put this on Fan Fic and is not fiction, I believe: Hi Everyone I just wanted to tell you about my experience in Whitby!.We were just by luck staying in a cottage at the bottom of the 199 steps, so when Tuesday morning came I was amazed by the site of cameras postioned on my doorstep & actors parding in front of me. I leaned out my window to be waved at with a glint in his by Jeremy Northam!!. He is a star in every sense of the word and had the crew in stiches with his dancing on the 199 steps!. At one point Jenniffer nearly fell down the very slippy steps, the perfect Northam came to her assistance (what a man). But Jennifer could not look him in the eyr due to his comedy antics!! I have photos galore & more stories !

Good find, Karen. Will look forward to seeing more stuff from Charlotte. Sounds like the filming of the Christabel & Ash portion of the story is proceeding nicely. *picturing Jeremy Northam coming to *my* assistance . . .yum . . .*

Eileen, have you seen Erin Brockovich? It's a good rent. Aaron E. plays Julia's love interest--not a huge role, but you'll see he is quite good at playing nice guy/semi-wimp. Maybe this will help you visualize him as Roland.

From the Victorian poetess Christina Georgina Rossetti this short poem -- An Emerald Is As Green As Grass An emerald is as green as grass. A ruby red as blood. A sapphire is as blue as heaven. Flint lies in the mud. A diamond is a brilliant stone To hold all the world's desire. An opal holds a firey spark But flint holds fire. Have any of you read Rossetti's long poem Goblin Market? Am sorry I've not posted a link to it. It is a worthwhile read.

Thank you, Saskia. The flint reference is interesting. Wonder how it relates to Byatt's continuing mention of stones throughout the book. Yes, Goblin Market is THE one to read for background. Once found out something interesting about Rossetti: there was a missing year in her life too. ;-D Here's a link to it: http://www.library.utoronto.ca/utel/rp/poems/rossettc8.html

Love to hear more Charlotte, can you describe what JN & JE were wearing?

(Mari)"Erin B." Aaron E. plays Julia's love interest--not a huge role, but you'll see he is quite good at playing nice guy/semi-wimp. Maybe this will help you visualize him as Roland. I agree, Mari. I rented EB this weekend just to check out Aaron Eckart...I can easily see Roland.Thought he did a great job as Julia's biker-boyfriend too. There's a tenderness to him that could transfer . Charlotte in Whitby....what a coup!!You were right Karen...JN &JE were fillming up there.

Ooh, I LOVE Goblin Market (with the name of Laura, how could I not!) Rosetti's brother did all the drawings (or art work) for it. She had a very sad life...

Nice place you have here, I have been lurking a bit and talking about Possession may become one since there are so many sides to it and a very intricate story line. I look forward to that. It is one of my favourite novels! I got your link from Ehlenews as well. I think it's exciting that Possession is being adapted and even more so that JE is to play an essential part, the one to inspire it all!! I think her perfect for the part...I mean starting out with the picture of Elizabeth Bennet, cleaned of any beautifying make-up she still has that inner beauty that is Christabel... As far as RA is concerned I haven't seen much of JN (only Emma) and I'm not really impressed, but that may change. There are many others that would fit the bill, and I agree that even though we all want to see a certain actor in the role that it is unlikely that they will ever be partners....it may evoke to many associations and comparisons to previous work!! Wow, that was a lot for a first time...so now I'll hold my peace;-D susanne) Does anyone have a recommendation for another Byatt book? The Game is a serious and somewhat unhomely and unsolved novel about sisters and their failure in resolving their problems! A nice one is "The Djin in the Nightingale's Eye" a collection of modern fairy tales....really interesting and fascinating! But I do agree with Laura that her trilogy is a delightful read, albeit very very long at least 6oo pages each!!

Thanks for the link, Karen! Please keep us posted on any news from Charlotte. Welcome, Hanne!

Hi Thanks to everyone who replied to me, I did not realise there were so many posession fans out there! Having started to read possession i can start to place the characters although it does say in the book that roland is dark haired i think but Arron is definetly ash colouring!(poetic liscence) I have some photos which i will mail to Karen as soon as I get them developed when the fuel crisis in england is over! JN & JE were dressed in period costume, JE in a long green dress with green embroided hooded coat, she had difficulty keeping the hood on due to the high winds & rain in whitby! JN was in lightly coloured trousers with shirt & cravatte & waistcoat,with a cream coloured overcoat, brown leather satchel and a wide brimmed brown hat. (very dashing) he also held an umbrella which he loved to dance around!! He is a very friendly man, when a passer bye stood with his dog JN stopped to fuss the dog even though it jumped up at him and left paw prints all over his outfit!!. Well until later charlotte

(Charlotte)JN was in lightly coloured trousers with shirt & cravatte & waistcoat,with a cream coloured overcoat,.. Were they cream-coloredbreeches? *sigh* Thanks Charlotte...

Thank you, Charlotte. We're looking forward to hearing from you and, please, join in the discussion...once we get it going. Am very disappointed that they didn't see fit to dye Aaron Eckhart's hair because he really should be dark-haired as in the book. I suppose he won't be referred to as Mole either. Now am wondering if there will be a Val. If Roland is American, would he have a long-time girlfriend in England? Omigod, am now sweating bullets. Evelyn, start lighting candles! Speaking of hair, Charlotte, did you notice Jennifer's hair coloring? Was she blonde? More hair...how about Jeremy, any facial hair? A beard perhaps? For some reason, I always picture Ash with a beard even though I don't believe it says that in the book. Must be all the pics of Victorian poets I've seen.

Karen, I think Charlotte was referring to Aaron Eckhart's natural hair color, not necessarily how he appears in this. Charlotte, can you confirm? Eckhart wasn't filming at the site you mentioned, was he? Anyway, I think it's more important for Maud and Christabel to have the same coloring, and not that significant for Roland and Ash--or am I missing something? They're downplaying the hair anyway, it seems--no headscarf on Gwynnie in those pics. Hmmm . . . Re: Roland and Val--I'm wondering, since he's now American, if they will change the story so that Roland is working for Mortimer. Maybe a twist is that you're not sure until the end where Roland's loyalties lie (to Maud or to Mortimer). Just a thought.

AE wouldn't have been in that scene, but one of the newspapers had GP and AE filming on the 199 steps a few days prior. not that significant for Roland and Ash--or am I missing something? It does take away from his characterization as the Mole, all dark and furry, but as I suspect, most of the deeper meanings will be discarded for the movie. Just today, I caught a Bravo Profile of Saul Zaentz (was watching for any on location stuff from TEP) and they had segments with Milos Forman, where he talked about making One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Forman said that Ken Kesey was given the opportunity to write the first screenplay. Said it would've been 10 hours long and contained too much metaphor and imagery, etc. Not good for the screen. So I expect what makes this novel soooo good (at least for me) will be trashed. If you're wondering why I'm so distraught about Roland it's that he's the main character of the book for me...the protagonist, the hero, the catalyst, the most important character and the one who goes through the most significant transformation himself. AE may be a wonderful actor, but he's not the first nor the 10th actor to come to mind when casting this part. In fact, if his good friend from college was not directing, I really doubt anyone would've thought of him for the part. OK, now you understand my perspective. Am done.

In fact, if his good friend from college was not directing, I really doubt anyone would've thought of him for the part. Big interview with AE in October's "Movieline" Mag. Says .."to Hollywood insiders,he's one of the hottest actor's going".He went up against several brand-name stars for the boyfriend in ER. The studio didn't want him, but the director did and after he read with Julia Roberts, she gave him her blessing too.He just finished another cop film The Pledge with Jack Nicholson. So it sounds like he's a face everyone is watching. BTW I see that USA films who is distributing Nurse Betty will also distrib Possession. They do relentless publicity.

Several ways to start here (*am NOT experienced discussion leader*): 1) do people have questions they'd like answered? 2) as Julie Andrews would trill... "let's start at the very beginning, a v.g. place to start" The Title and its many meanings 3) the characters, what people think about them Other ideas?

I liked what you brought up before about the stones, Karen. It will be the fenestration of this discussion. ;-) Also, the fact that Christabel is not the only person with something to hide (but that goes along with the stones). And, the juxtaposition of the characters, who is who and why? (Karen), If you're wondering why I'm so distraught about Roland it's that he's the main character of the book for me...the protagonist, the hero, the catalyst, the most important character and the one who goes through the most significant transformation himself. AE may be a wonderful actor, but he's not the first nor the 10th actor to come to mind when casting this part. In fact, if his good friend from college was not directing, I really doubt anyone would've thought of him for the part. OK, now you understand my perspective. I agree! You and I will probably be very disappointed in the film. We look forward to seeing your pictures, Charlotte. It is always fun to hear how the actors goof-off on the set.

(Moon) It will be the fenestration of this discussion. ;-) *hee hee* You know, whenever I read this book, I always feel like I should have little notecards like Roland. Am truly a "Line by Line" kind of person. ;-D

(Moon)I agree! You and I will probably be very disappointed in the film. C'mon...don't write the obituary before it's even out...besides whatever happened to ..."let's judge the book and the film separately. Each one has to stand on its own;-)" That's what we have always done.... Good questions to start off the discussion...I shall ponder.But what about *spoilers*?

(Karen) ? For some reason, I always picture Ash with a beard even though I don't believe it says that in the book. Must be all the pics of Victorian poets I've seen. from page 298 (train scene) He was a handsome man, with a flowing head of very dark brown hair, almost black but with russet lights in its waves, and a glossy beard, a little browner, the color of horse-chestnuts. His brow was expansive, the organ of intellect well-developed, though he was equally well endowed with the bumps opf compassion and fellow-feeling. he had black brows, a little rough and craggy, under which very large dark eyes looked out at the world steadily enough, fearless but with something held in reserve. Darn that horse chestnut imagery always puts my mind onto other things. :-)) I doubt very much the film will be as good as the book. There is no way they can really do justice to all the characters in a two hour film. I do think that the film can be good if not compared to closely with the book. No matter, I will be determined to love it, if for no other reason than Jennifer is in it.

(Sue) Darn that horse chestnut imagery always puts my mind onto other things. :-)) Me too, Sue. And Byatt doesn't help things by putting organ and well endowed in the same sentence.;-) Yes folks, I will really raise the level of discourse around here.;-) I think I feel a double feature rent of Winslow Boy and Happy Texas coming on for a heavy dose of JN's repressed sexuality, which he does so well.

Thanks, Sue, for the book's description. Knew that image had to come from somewhere. Enough about my personal agony over casting (that's my problem and Moon's), let's talk book... ;-D And am very much looking forward to *your contributions* Mari ;-D I'll toss out this out for comment: "Is Roland a wimp or a hero?"

Just to answer one of the above questions Arron was on set with Gwyneth and his hair was not dark, i know this because i had my photo taken with him!. JE had red hair!

Wow, Charlotte, talk about being in the right place at the right time! We'll look forward to seeing your pics, and hearing who in the cast was naughty and who was nice.;-) Sounds like they decided on "come as you are" for the cast's hair. Karen, am still mulling your question.

JE had red hair! Uh ,oh....there must be a mistake.Christabel has blond/white hair... Maybe she didn't have enough time after Annie.... Karen....don't jump out that window!!!

Arron was on set with Gwyneth and his hair was not dark, i know this because i had my photo taken with him!. JE had red hair Thanks, Charlotte! So Maud is blond: yes. (Plus no head scarf) Christable is red: no. Roland is light brown: no. Ash is dark: yes. At least this should match! Evelyn, I agree we will discuss the book, but take note of the topic title. :-) And am very much looking forward to *your contributions* Mari ;-D Do keep those */* coming. ;-) "Is Roland a wimp or a hero?" His persona is a wimp. His suprapersona is a hero. :-D Why was Ash so understanding and supporting of his frigid wife?

Karen....don't jump out that window!!! No, have already bought my plane ticket to next year's LFF, where movie will undoubtedly be screened. Intend to lead audience in loud catcalls and booing much in manner of Mansfield Park's reception last year. *will keep mouth shut. Highly praised and respected director obviously knows what he is doing and has decided none of this means anything.*

(Karen)Highly praised and respected director obviously knows what he is doing and has decided none of this means anything.* Healthy attitude...keeps ulcers at bay...;-) (Moon)Evelyn, I agree we will discuss the book, but take note of the topic title. :-) I know....but I find I can't defend the film, since I haven't seen it yet... I probably will agree with you....but for now....hmmmmm.

Charlotte, does JE have long hair? We must not take anything for granted here. I hope she is wearing a wig. Christabel with short hair is definitely beyond my immagination.

I was thinking about a wig too, but Charlotte did see them filming, not just rehearsing.... One description of the style of her hair was lots of little curls around the face. Will get to your question, Moon, a little later...

*Spoilers* (Karen)"Is Roland a wimp or a hero?" (Moon)His persona is a wimp. His suprapersona is a hero. :-D ~~~~ I�m trying hard to like Roland, the author wants me to like him and because he obviously is the hero , after all without his discovery of the letters there wouldn�t be a book! .But I find his actions inconsistent with the traits in which the author describes him.... �He had done what was hoped of him, always�...He tried to please his mother, his boss, Blackadder....Val [surrogate mother IMO].Yet he thought himself a failure...had nothing to say. Yet, he took First at University with his dissertaion.But only took a job as a part-time research assistant in Blackadder�s Ash Factory. Did some tutoring, restaurant dishwashing ...�scraping a living�.You can say he was a wimp or a non-starter at best. Yet he discovers these letters in the British Library archives and surreptitously steals them. A shock to the reader! Where did he rev up the courage? For the rest of the book he sort of does dips and highs....On the one hand he is intimidated by Maud , yet takes the risk of losing his job by going off to Breton with her. He is supposed to be the believable character, isn�t he? I mean, Christabel and Ash are a little surreal [ not mean�t in a pejorative way...to me all poets are a little �out of this world�, ] That�s my take on this guy...but I don�t dislike him.Just find him a little disappointing .IMO

he is intimidated by Maud This is presented as a class thing. Will not work if Roland is an Am. Yet he discovers these letters in the British Library archives and surreptitously steals them. A shock to the reader! Where did he rev up the courage? This bothers him constantly, he feels that he should tell someone. He is a quiet type remember he even gets passed up for the promotion. But I was very happy to see that in the end he got three job offers and that came as a complete surprise.

Hi JE was had red long hair for definate, during filming she had it back,but with a hood for the outdoor shots. Arron as I said was definetely ash colouring and no way dark

Thanks Charlotte, definitely a wig then because when I saw her just 8 weeks ago her hair was quite blonde and very short. Why are they doing this though when the book describes her hair colour so differently. Charlotee, does she have curls round her face or is her hair pulled back off her face?

apologies for typo Charlotte.

(E.)he is intimidated by Maud (Moon)This is presented as a class thing Also because she is a full professor and he is at the low end of the academic latter... (Moon) But I was very happy tosee that in the end he got three job offers and that came as a complete surprise. I'll say...fast too. Contrived? (Charlotte)JE had red long hair for definite... Wig, or dyed with extensions for sure."Come as you are" would have been short blonde as Ann said. Thanks Charlotte.

.. latter. Ohgod...I mean't "ladder".. Quick before the ever-vigilant cop gets me...;-)

(Evelyn) Also because she is a full professor and he is at the low end of the academic ladder... Is she? I don't recall. Another possibility is that Roland is younger than Maud and just hasn't found a teaching position yet. Roland has his Ph.d, and might be in what would be called a crowded field of Ash scholars, whereas Maud is the burgeoning (but underfunded) field of women's studies and little-known fairy poets. Does tend to affect number of job openings available. ;-D Contrived? IMO, perfectly timed to coincide with his character's development. He had just learned who/what he was. Now he would be able to make a decision about his future. Prior to this, he didn't have the ability. If however you think the getting three job offers at the same time is not plausible, don't school operate pretty much according to set time schedules? They fill academic positions at certain times. No different than student applicants; mailbox can be full of acceptances/rejections. More later

I agree, Karen. It is very believable that Roland had applied for those jobs, he needed money and it was a way to escape Val. The reader did not have to know that he had applied. I was happy for him. BTW, I wish everyone did not feel the need to use up a post just because of a need to apologise for a typo. I think we can give you the benefit of the doubt. We are a friendly literate bunch.

(Moon) Why was Ash so understanding and supporting of his frigid wife? Cropper wrote that Ash's long courtship of Ellen showed his adoration to be on a par with Petrach's, i.e., a love that would withstand whatever obstacles. Also, Cropper surmised that Ash funneled his passions into his poetry during that period rather than find "other" outlets. Yet at the same time, Cropper does not believe Ask to Embla (Ash's great love poem) is written to Ellen. Seems a pretty obvious inconsistency to me. Could drive a truck through that one. I see Ash as a romantic. He put Ellen up on a pedestal and waited for her until her father deemed him "worthy" of her. He waited 15 years. On their honeymoon, they visited the place where Petrach lived in solitude contemplating his ideal (unconsummated) love. While Petrach loved an ideal, I don't think Ash was the type to be satisfied with just that. We finally get to see things through Ash's eyes in Yorkshire. He seems to have gotten most of his early education from reading books. In fact, while waiting downstairs for Christabel, he thought of certain passages from books ("He thought of Balzac, from whom he had learned much, some of it erroneous, some of it simply too French to be useful in the world he still lived in.") However, what could he do about his marriage? As the old saying goes, he made his bed now he would have to lie in it. He would look an absolute fool for having waited 15 years only to be rejected by his wife. He made the best of it, by accepting Ellen's slave-like devotion in lieu of physical love. Neither could discuss it. When he tells Christabel that he won't discuss Ellen (or vice versa) because it would be a betrayal, I think he is shielding himself rather than acting out of loyalty. He was complicit in their charade. It was also something that "could not be discussed." They built a life around a lie. In Yorkshire, Christabel says, "how can we bear it?" Ash's reply is "We can be quiet together, and pretend..." Ash has a history of pretending.

I too see Ash as a romantic and also Roland as a contemporary romantic (though i can't see him putting up with a frigid wife...). (Moon) It is very believable that Roland had applied for those jobs, he needed money and it was a way to escape Val. The reader did not have to know that he had applied. I was happy for him. Me too,me too...v. v. happy for everybody:-)) I was just replying to you "fast " comment. I have decided, however, that Ms. Byatt likes to catch the reader off-guard with surprises..instead of leading up to it.Clever. Makes for a faster read. BTW...what do other folks think of our main characters?

(Evelyn) I too see...Roland as a contemporary romantic Mmmmmmm yes.

(Evelyn) I too see...Roland as a contemporary romantic (Karen),Mmmmmmm yes. Definitely not my kind of romantic. (Karen), However, what could he do about his marriage? As the old saying goes, he made his bed now he would have to lie in it. He would look an absolute fool for having waited 15 years only to be rejected by his wife. He made the best of it, by accepting Ellen's slave-like devotion in lieu of physical love. Neither could discuss it. His love letters to her were a bit much. Beatrice who was studying Ellen, had no clue and she was an Ash scholar too. In fact, while waiting downstairs for Christabel, he thought of certain passages from books Ash says, "Le d�go�t, c'est voir juste. Apr�s la possession, l'amour voit juste chez les hommes." Why was disgust any clearer-eyed than desire? Ellen had disgust for his desire. Christabel in her "old maid", age did not. In fact she desired it. She had even brought a "wedding ring" to wear, as he had done. (I loved that scene in the train).

Moon, is that the translation of those two sentences? I never tried to find out what it said or can't remember. (Moon) Ellen had disgust for his desire. I think she is terrified. (Moon) Christabel in her "old maid", age did not. In fact she desired it. Ah then, but she's half-French and she would. ;-D

From Variety, another cast member, perhaps Val? Lena Headey, most recently seen in "Gossip," has landed starring roles in two pics: the John Duigan-directed "The Parole Officer," and the Neil LaBute-directed "Possession." She's repped by CAA and U.K.-based Lou Coulson. ~~~~~ FYI, she was Olga in Onegin, if anyone saw it. v. pretty. Here's a website with lots of pics. http://www.geocities.com/lenaheadey/ Present day However, she could be Blanche. This is from Ballykissangel

Ash says, "Le d�go�t, c'est voir juste. Apr�s la possession, l'amour voit juste chez les hommes." (Moon)Why was disgust any clearer-eyed than desire? Is he using possession as a synonym for "desire"? (Don't like men who digress in a foreign tongue...makes me think they're trying to put something over on me!!)

"Le d�go�t, c'est voir juste. Apr�s la possession, l'amour voit juste chez les hommes." Altavista's translator came up with this: The dislike, it is to see right. After the possession, the love sees just at the men I have to go with possession meaning "to have."

Lena Headey is v. pretty...but a starring role as Val? Too pretty for Ellen. I remember her in Onegin she was Liv Tyler's sister,wasn't she?...Toby Stephen's fiancee.

I still can't believe Christabel will have red hair. I thought it was an important point in the book that C and M have similarities. Byatt drew more than one parallel between C and M's hair. Before Fergus, Maud wore her hair partically shaved and after Christabel has her baby she comes back with her hair standing up in short wisps. If Jennifer is wearing a wig anyway, why not make it blond. Roland, I never thought of him as a wimp or a hero really. He seemed to be unsure and lacking in confidence about his life. His relationship with Val was co-dependent at the best. I wonder if Val did not make a move to end the relationship,if he ever would have. Part of his problem was that he spent years in the self-contained world of academia. I don't think he ever had to deal with life situations. All of a sudden he had to deal with a bad relationship, finding a job and then his integrity is tested when he finds the letter. Why was Ellen frigid? I know it makes for a good story, but there must be a reason-chilhood trauma, abuse, rape. That she felt disgust with a man that she loved seems very strange.I don't think that Ash would have looked to another woman,regardless of her being a soulmate or muse, if he had a whole relationship with his wife. At first, I thought that it was noble of Ash to remain in his marriage despite the problems, but perhaps he was more selfish than noble especially after he compromised Christabel and knew he had a child with her.

(Karen) Lena Headey, most recently seen in "Gossip," has landed starring roles in two pics: the John Duigan-directed "The Parole Officer," Hmmm, a Stephen Dillane vehicle? Will post more at 132...

I may be off base here, but I'm not sure that Ash didn't find "comfort" outside the marriage prior to Christabel. I got the impression that he may have fathered the child of the pregnant maid (don't have the book here with me to reference). Roland--to me, he is the least clearly-drawn character in the book, to the point where I'm unable to label him hero or wimp. Also, I don't think the class difference between him and Maud was that big a deal in the book; it's mentioned, but that's about it. More to the point, she is his superior professionally, as others have noted here, which also enabled her to live a more comfortable lifestyle. Remember she had those nice white sheets that Roland liked, while he was living in that cat piss-stained dump. Ugh! Get a real job!;-);-) I have a question for the group: what is the significance of Maud always being in green, or among green things?

(Sue) I never thought of him as a wimp or a hero really He's probably both. His name tells me that he's a knight and we know he's on a Quest. He even has a talismen (the letter) to carry him through. He saves a damsel or two in distress: (1) Lady Bailey, literally, whose wheelchair is caught on a precipice and (2) Maud, figuratively, from her sterile life. Yes, he's unsure and lack confidence in himself, and I view Val as an albatross around his neck. When Val had left him before, he got out, started going places and being with people. Then she came back, and he was back in his molehole. Academically, he was recognized. At university, no one believed Val had written her paper and they thought it was Roland's work. As far the letter and his integrity, another way to view it is the letter stole him. It was alive and it took possession of him and everyone who touched it. (Sue) At first, I thought that it was noble of Ash to remain in his marriage despite the problems, but perhaps he was more selfish than noble especially after he compromised Christabel and knew he had a child with her. I've bounced around in my opinion of Ash and haven't quite settled on it. However, he thought the child was dead for some time. Also, I don't view it as Ash having "compromised" Christabel. She decided to go and knew precisely what she was doing. Moreover, it was Christabel who made the rules about their relationship. No way, was she going to be the one to break up his home/marriage. She said it was a summer lark and no more, they would never see each other again. She even tells him up front (as Mari quoted early on), "And you must not speak nonsense. Of course I shall regret. So will you, will you not? But that, too, is of no importance at this time." Christabel's final letter to Ash says, they agreed to leave each other and never look back. She didn't regret their time together, her having Maia, but the lie she perpetuated.

(Mari) I got the impression that he may have fathered the child of the pregnant maid. You are not alone. I know others who believe the same and it is a distinct possibility. Otherwise, he might also have been a virgin up in Yorkshire with Christabel, but is not. (Mari) I don't think the class difference between him and Maud was that big a deal in the book; it's mentioned, but that's about it. Roland does mention it a lot. He is very uncomfortable socially. Remember when Roland and Maud meet with Euan, Val and Toby? Maud can connect with those people, their backgrounds (not Val's of course) and Roland is a 5th wheel. (Mari) what is the significance of Maud always being in green, or among green things? Green has lots of meanings besides being specifically mentioned in the source poetry. What does green signify to you? ;-D

(Karen) He is very uncomfortable socially. Yes, and I chalked it up to his personality, not necessarily ascribing it to class. But then again, I'm such an egalitarian kinda gal.:-) (Karen) What does green signify to you? ;-D Er . . . St. Patty's Day?;-) Let's see . . .life, growth, envy, inexperience . . .tell me when I'm getting warm.:-)

Give the lady a kewpie doll!! In some places, I think it also takes on the same meaning of the "green" light in Gatsby - hope. And certainly refers back to the serpent in the source poem and Melusina, of course. The rich jewel colors are very Tennysonian.

p. 459 He thought of the Princess on her glass, of Maud's faintly contemptuous look at their first meeting. In the real world--that was, for one should not privilege on world above another, in the social world to which they must both reutrn from these white nights and sunny days--there was little real connection between them. Maud was a beautifulwoman such as he had no claim to possess. She had a secure job and an international reputation. Moreover, in some dark and outdated English social system of class, which he didnot believe in, but felt obscurely working and gripping him, Maud was Country, and he was urban lower-middle-class, in some places more, in some places less acceptable than Maud, but in almost all incompatible.

I view Val as an albatross around his neck. Yeah...but he credited Val and his mum for getting him through the Ph.D dissertation and getting that First.Also she was the breadwinner in that relationship...she had the "real job"! Happens in many university relationships...eventually they outgrow each other. Val realized that...the relationship was going nowhere [Hmmmm...Where have I heard that before?] She got out of it with Euan...(Way to go Val!)

(Evelyn) she was the breadwinner in that relationship...she had the "real job"! And she threw that in his face every chance she got. Val subordinated herself to Roland. Gave up--voluntarily--what she was really interested in (Robert Graves) to be with him. She stopped having opinions of her. Project a self-image of superfluousness, meniality, etc. How on earth was Roland going to have any confidence in himself and be asserted when he was being made to feel guilty for her demise? You only see yourself in the reflection of others. Happens in many university relationships Happens in more than just those, think about women putting their husbands through law school, med school, etc. (Sue) Why was Ellen frigid? ...but there must be a reason-chilhood trauma, abuse, rape. I always chalked it up to good old Victorianism, but there actually is something, a clue, perhaps. In Ellen Ash's journal, she makes a couple of comments. One about remembering that her mother beat a servant who was pregnant. "I remember one in particular, Thyrza Collit, running screaming from room to room and Mamma whirling after her with upraised arm. I shall never forget that screaming." Ellen also has a peculiar image of married women with all their ailments and continual "lyings-in." She notes that her sister Patience's looks had faded and her husband Barabas was a "most considerate husband." Ellen seems to be afraid of pregnancy, the result. Good insight, Sue.

Karen, where were you when I needed tutoring in English Lit (will you go over Gulliver's Travels with me???? :))!!! I never picked up on Ellen being afraid of pregnancy. I thought that she just didn't want the children. I did suspect that Ash fathered the housekeeper's child. I loaned out my book "Possession" to I hope is a worthy individual, I'm nervous. I gave her BJD I & II, and she loved it (she's a SATC addict), hoping I have a convert.... :) (told her they were making it into a movie...)