Some many reports of Bin Laden in so many places today. "Then up and spoke the Colonel's son that led a troop of the Guides: "Is there never a man of all my men can say where Kamal hides?" Then up and spoke Mahommed Khan, the son of the Ressaldar: "If ye know the track of the morning-mist, ye know where his pickets are. At dusk he harries the Abazai -- at dawn he is into Bonair, But he must go by Fort Bukloh to his own place to fare, So if ye gallop to Fort Bukloh as fast as a bird can fly, By the favour of God ye may cut him off ere he win to the Tongue of Jagai. But if he be past the Tongue of Jagai, right swiftly turn ye then, For the length and the breadth of that grisly plain is sown with Kamal's men. There is rock to the left, and rock to the right, and low lean thorn between, And ye may hear a breech-bolt snick where never a man is seen." " --The Ballad of East and West

The Taliban cannot be negotiated with. The council of clerics is more afraid of the Taliban than they are of the U.S. -- the Taliban, after all, are within actual rifle range and constitute a real and present threat, whereas the U.S. is (in their eyes) only a distant and vague *potential* threat. Hence the Council of Clerics decision. These councils, btw, historically have tended to defer to whomever had the biggest and nearest sword. Council of Clerics' decisions tend to drift with the winds of power, and have generally been considered by Afghans to be as binding and as relevant as, say, a Berkeley resolution declaring the city a "nuclear free zone." Anyone seriously wishing to capture Bin Laden or otherwise deal with the Afghan aspect of this problem effectively should not pay much attention to either Taliban or Council of Clerics edicts. - David Kline, former war correspondent in Afghanistan

I got this tidbit from Dr. Flash Gordon, MD of San Francisco. here's a fascinating interview from 1999 with osama bin laden that appeared in _esquire_ magazine: http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/2001/010913_mfe_binladen_1.html in light of current events, the last line is especially chilling.

From the above article: "When it was over, I went looking for him. "So, do we have a story?" I whispered when I found him. "Please tell me it wasn't just an hour of �Praise Allah' bullshit." "No," Ali said. "We have a very good story." I asked Ali what bin Laden had said that would make this news. "He was looking right into your face," Ali said, "and he was saying that you�you people, the Americans�would be going home from the Middle East in coffins and in boxes." "He said that?" I asked, excited. "And while he was saying this, what was I doing?" Ali looked at me a bit oddly and said, "You were nodding like you agreed with his plan." "

The Times of India reports that Omar and Osama had a meeting and then Osama got the hell out of Dodge, er, Kandahar, and the Taliban have followed suit, abandonining Kandahar, Kabul and other centers for the hills to prepare for the expected assault. http://www.timesofindia.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=1884594979

October 2, 2001 THE INVESTIGATION Call by bin Laden Before Attacks Is Reported By PHILIP SHENON and DAVID JOHNSTON WASHINGTON, Oct. 1 � Osama bin Laden telephoned his mother in Syria the day before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks to tell her that he could not meet her there because "something big" was imminent that would end their communications for a long time, a senior foreign official said tonight. The official, speaking on the condition of not being named, said the account was obtained through an interrogation of Mr. bin Laden's extended family in Saudi Arabia. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/national/02INQU.html

Bin Laden seen in Kabul as net tightens Richard Norton-Taylor Tuesday October 2, 2001 The Guardian Osama bin Laden was in Kabul last week and US and British intelligence agencies have a "pretty good idea" where he is now, well-placed sources have told the Guardian. The disclosure suggests that western intelligence has a much clearer picture of Bin Laden's recent movements than has been admitted, either by Washington and London or by the Taliban. Bin Laden and his close circle of supporters are America's top target. His capture or death would reduce the pressure for wider military action against Afghanistan. It is not clear whether he was spotted by American spy satellites or whether the information was provided by Pakistan's intelligence service, the ISI. The ISI, which has had extremely close relations with the Taliban, is said by western sources to be cooperating well with western intelligence agencies. The presence in the Afghan capital of the prime suspect behind the September 11 attacks on the US could help to explain recent statements by the Taliban saying they know where he is. The Taliban said on Sunday that he was being held in a secret location "for his safety and security". According to one report, in the days immediately following the attack, Bin Laden was hiding in a mountainous area near Kandahar, the seat of the Taliban's power in southern Afghanistan. However, despite the ISI's cooperation and apparently firm intelligence that Bin Laden was in Kabul last week, defence sources say they are deeply frustrated at the failure to get "real-time" or what they call "actionable" intelligence. They are scanning Afghanistan for what they call a "window of opportunity" to find Bin Laden and his associates. With the latest communications technology, there is a delay of some hours between a sighting of a target from a satellite and a military strike against it, defence sources say. The failure so far to get real-time intelligence indicates that any special forces that may be on the ground have not found Bin Laden and that Pakistan's ISI is not prepared to share its latest intelligence with the US. Even if timely intelligence locates Bin Laden in Kabul, the US and Britain would be faced with a serious dilemma, Whitehall sources admit. Any decision to launch air strikes on the capital, even with precision weapons, would carry the risk of heavy civilian casualties. The American and British governments are determined to limit such risks, partly because of the need to maintain as broad an international coalition as possible, partly to avoid provoking retaliation by groups of protesters at home. The Taliban leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar, was reported yesterday to have said in a radio address that Afghhans should not worry about a US attack because "Americans don't have the courage to come here". US and British intelligence agencies are throwing all their resources at their disposal in the attempt to locate Bin Laden. They include US spy satellites and GCHQ listening posts. Defence sources still insist they are pursuing a policy of what they call "strategic patience". However, they add that pressure is mounting to launch air strikes to "coerce" the Taliban into handing over Bin Laden. These would be aimed at Bin Laden training camps and Taliban military bases.

QUETTA, Pakistan, Oct 2 (AFP) - Thousands of Pakistani hardline Islamists defied a government ban Tuesday and took to the streets here in a show of support for neighbouring Afghanistan's Taliban regime. More than 50,000 protestors, many armed with sticks and swords, paraded through this southwestern Pakistani city, chanting slogans supporting the Taliban and the world's most wanted man, Osama bin Laden.

Inside Al-Qaeda: a window into the world of militant Islam and the Afghani alumni By Richard Engel, Cairo and Amman The breeding grounds of militant Islamic terrorism span a host of different environments from the Afghan battlefields of the 1980s to places much closer to home. Richard Engel charts the careers of some of Bin Laden's converts and co-conspirators, offering an insight into Al-Qaeda's inner workings. more at http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/misc/janes010928_1_n.shtml

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SUN OCT 07, 2001 19:20:41 ET XXXXX WHITE HOUSE CONVINCED: BIN LADEN GIVING ORDERS OVER INTERNET President Bush and his senior advisers are convinced that terror lord Osama bin Laden is communicating with his agents via the Internet, government sources said on Sunday. "[The Internet] appears to be a major mode of communication between bin Laden' and his network," revealed a White House insider who demanded anonymity. "The Internet has proven to be a good place to hide and to communicate in real-time," added the source. "We know there's been an exchange of email between bin Laden's top agents, but there also may be ongoing chats, like instant messages.' Developing...

India helped FBI trace ISI-terrorist links MANOJ JOSHI TIMES NEWS NETWORK NEW DELHI: While the Pakistani Inter Services Public Relations claimed that former ISI director-general Lt-Gen Mahmud Ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on Monday, the truth is more shocking. Top sources confirmed here on Tuesday, that the general lost his job because of the "evidence" India produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the World Trade Centre. The US authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to WTC hijacker Mohammed Atta from Pakistan by Ahmad Umar Sheikh at the instance of Gen Mahumd. Senior government sources have confirmed that India contributed significantly to establishing the link between the money transfer and the role played by the dismissed ISI chief. While they did not provide details, they said that Indian inputs, including Sheikh�s mobile phone number, helped the FBI in tracing and establishing the link. A direct link between the ISI and the WTC attack could have enormous repercussions. The US cannot but suspect whether or not there were other senior Pakistani Army commanders who were in the know of things. Evidence of a larger conspiracy could shake US confidence in Pakistan�s ability to participate in the anti-terrorism coalition. " continued at http://www.timesofindia.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=1454238160 and why and how osama escaped our 75 missiles: " �98 attack: Tip off to Osama cooked ISI chief�s goose Vishal Thapar (New Delhi, October 9) The seeds of US distrust in the Pakistani military establishment, which claimed the scalp of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief Lt.-General Mehmood Ahmed, lie in leaking out of information about the US cruise missile attacks on the terrorist camps of Osama bin Laden in Khost (Afghanistan) on August 20, 1998. This enabled Osama bin Laden to escape. The fact that Osama left behind his satellite phone, otherwise his constant companion, before fleeing convinced the US that he had advance information about the attacks. The US had been able to pinpoint his position by using satellites to track his phone calls. Before firing the 75-odd Tomahawk Cruise missles from ship and submarine platform in the Arabain Sea (the attacks were in retaliation for the August 7 bombings of the US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, in which 224 people were killed), the US informed Pak that the missiles would be flying over its territory. Even now, the US has reasons to believe that Pakistan is playing a double game by supporting Taliban. They believe that the Taliban is being tipped off about operational plans and surreptitiously helped to defend itself against the US attacks. The sacked ISI chief, Lt Gen Mehmood Ahmed, led a group of Islamic clerics to Afghanistan, ostensibly to persuade Mullah Mohammad Omer to hand over Osama Bin Laden. The group led by the general did just the opposite - it asked Omer not to hand over Osama come what may. Revelations that Gen Ahmed was aware of the wire transfer of $ 100,000 by Ahmad Omar Sheikh to Mohammad Atta, the mastermind of the Sept 11 attacks, shook the US. Sheikh, who along with Maulana Masood Azhar and Mushtaq Ahmed Zargar was released from Indian prison in exchange for the safe release of the passengers of the hijacked IC 814 I-A plane, was known for his proximity to Gen Ahmed. The US believes that Gen Ahmed, who was in the USA on Sept 11, was aware of the plan to bomb the US landmarks. " continued at http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/101001/dlame24.asp why aren't the news services recalling that osama fled in a panic, and left his followers to die without warning them about the missile attack meant for him. cowardly and treacherous to his own people, nothing admirable about this.

Wednesday, 10 October, 2001, 02:07 GMT 03:07 UK In full: Al-Qaeda statement The statement was read by one of Osama Bin Laden's lieutenants Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, a spokesman for Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda group, has called on Muslims to join in a holy war against the United States. Below is the full text of the statement: "We thank Almighty God, who said in his holy book: Ye who believe, take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjustly. "May God's peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his companions, and those who followed his course. "I address this message to the entire Muslim nation to tell them that the confederates have joined forces against the Islamic nation and the Crusader war, promised by Bush, has been launched against Afghanistan and against this people who have faith in God. 'Crusader bombardment' "We now live under this Crusader bombardment that targets the entire nation. The Islamic nation should know that we defend a just cause. "The Islamic nation has been groaning in pain for more than 80 years under the yoke of the joint Jewish-Crusader aggression. Palestine is living under the yoke of the Jewish occupation and its people groan from this repression and persecution while no-one lifts a finger. The Arabian Peninsula is being defiled by the feet of those who came to occupy these lands, usurp these holy places, and plunder these resources. Carrying out terrorism against the oppressors is one of the tenets of our religion and Shari'ah "The Islamic nation must also know that the US version of terrorism is a kind of deception. Is it logical for the United States and its allies to carry out this repression, persecution, plundering, and bloodletting over these long years without this being called terrorism, while when the victim tries to seek justice, he is described as terrorist? "This type of deception can never be accepted in any case whatsoever. "Let the United States know that the Islamic nation will not remain silent after this day on what it is experiencing and what takes place in its land, and that jihad for the sake of God today is an obligation on every Muslim in this land if he has no excuse. 'Steeds of war' "God Almighty has said: Then fight in God's cause, thou art held responsible only for thyself and rouse the believers. It may be that God will restrain the fury of the unbelievers, for God is the strongest in might and in punishment. The actions by these young men who destroyed the United States and launched the storm of planes against it have done a good deed "US interests are spread throughout the world. So, every Muslim should carry out his real role to champion his Islamic nation and religion. Carrying out terrorism against the oppressors is one of the tenets of our religion and Shari'ah. "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of God and your enemies. "I would like to touch on one important point in this address. The actions by these young men who destroyed the United States and launched the storm of planes against it have done a good deed. "They transferred the battle into the US heartland. Let the United States know that with God's permission, the battle will continue to be waged on its territory until it leaves our lands, stops its support for the Jews, and lifts the unjust embargo on the Iraqi people who have lost more than one million children. "The Americans should know that the storm of plane attacks will not abate, with God's permission. There are thousands of the Islamic nation's youths who are eager to die just as the Americans are eager to live. 'New phase of enmity' "They should know that with their invasion of the land of Afghanistan, they have started a new phase of enmity and conflict between us and the forces of infidelity. We are confident that we will achieve victory thanks to our material and moral strength and confidence and faith in Almighty God. The Americans have opened a door which will under no circumstances be shut. "I address Muslim youths, men, and women and urge them to shoulder their responsibility. They should know that the land of Afghanistan and the mujahidin there are really facing an all-out Crusader war which is aimed at eliminating this group which believes in God and fights on the basis of a creed and religion. Thus, the nation must shoulder its responsibility. It would be a disgrace if the Islamic nation fails to do so. "Finally, I thank Almighty God who enabled us to engage in this jihad and fight this battle, which is a decisive one between infidelity and faith. I ask Almighty God to grant us victory on our enemy, make their machinations backfire on them, and defeat them. "May God's peace, mercy, and blessings be upon you." BBC Monitoring, based in Caversham in southern England, selects and translates information from radio, television, press, news agencies and the Internet from 150 countries in more than 70 languages Demands, demands. Forget it Osama, you're toast!

Believe it or not department: http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/05/20011024id36.htm Report by China News Service quoting Japanese source in Tokyo per the following (translated by AIT from Chinese from the site at: http://www.chinanews.com.cn/2001-10-24/26/133210.html/ in Chinese, and http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/05/20011024id36.htm in Japanese): "Chinese News Service Reports: Osama bin Laden Killed?" Filed by Hiroyuki Sugiyama, Yomiuri Shimbun Reporter based in Beijing. Based on Japanese sources in Tokyo, news report (s) has been received that on October 16th, both the leader of Taliban Afghanistan Omar and the leader of AlQaida, Osama bin Laden, were both shot and killed in Afghanistan, by elements within their ranks. However at this time no other news sources have confirmed the assassinations. The CNS news report stated that it is reported that Omar and Bin Laden had returned to one of the underground Taliban bases near Kandahar in the south, at approximately 11 a.m. local time in Afghanistan on 16 October. As the two and others were entering the underground base, it was reported an ally fired upon his (Omar's) back from the rear. The report is that Omar was hit in the upper torso, and bin Laden was hit once in the chest and once in the upper left shoulder area. Both expired at that location. The report goes on to say that accompanying bin Laden were one of his sons and this son's wife, who were also hit with gunfire in the chest, waist and shoulder areas, and they too have reported suffered fatal wounds from this attack. The second eldest son of Omar also suffered a gunshot wound to the right side of his lower torso, and escaped the shooting, but expired on the following day." [End of Text]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1608000/1608272.stm is a piece on how geologists are working to determine exactly where ObL is based on the rock formations etc. in the pictures with him. But won't wide mention of this on CNN, etc. tip off Bin Laden to not use these backgrounds again. He's probably ordering a giant roll of backdrop paper now.

Another video, more whining from Bin Laden. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1636000/1636257.stm

Fortunately this time CNN and the networks aren't playing it, instead showing about a 20 second clip of the pitiful whining and crying, did I say pathetic, Osama Bin Laden.

Sunday November 4 9:04 AM ET Arabs Dismiss Bin Laden Appeal, Syria Rips U.S. By Nadim Ladki DAMASCUS (Reuters) - The head of the 22-nation Arab League Sunday dismissed an appeal by Osama bin Laden to Muslims to join a holy war against the West, saying the Saudi militant did not speak for the world's Arabs and Muslims. Egypt, the Arab world's most populous country, also rejected the appeal, saying the world was united against bin Laden. ``There is a war between bin Laden and the whole world,'' Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmad Maher told reporters ahead of a meeting of Arab foreign ministers in Syria when asked about bin Laden's appeal. Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa, himself Egyptian foreign minister before taking up the Arab League post earlier this year, echoed Maher's comments, saying: ``Bin Laden doesn't speak in the name of Arabs and Muslims.''

Hey Wow, The Kids Dig Rambo *8-/ Bin Laden's sons visit helicopter wreck 07 November, 2001 18:56 GMT Email this article Printer friendly version J Reuters PhotoDUBAI (Reuters) - Hamza Osama bin Laden read poetry while his brother Mohammad strolled carrying a rocket launcher near the wreckage of what Afghanistan's ruling Taliban said was a downed U.S. helicopter. The two were among four youths shown on Wednesday in exclusive footage from Afghanistan by Qatar's al-Jazeera television, which identified them as sons of Osama bin Laden -- Hamza, Mohammad, Khaled and Laden. The four appeared to be teenagers and showed no signs of being fazed by U.S. military strikes on Afghanistan aimed at flushing out their father, blamed by the United States for the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington. Sitting against the backdrop of metal wreckage, Hamza grabbed the attention of several masked gunmen as he recited a poem in classical Arabic hailing the Afghan capital Kabul and praising Taliban leader "our emir Mullah Mohammad Omar, symbol of manhood and pride". Al-Jazeera said the four sons were among a group of Arab fighters who joined Afghan Arab fighters and Taliban forces inspecting a site where the Taliban had said it downed a U.S. helicopter in Ghazni province on Saturday. The Pentagon has denied an aircraft was downed. It said bad weather forced a helicopter to crash but all its crew were rescued and the craft was destroyed by fighter jets to prevent the Taliban taking sensitive equipment. Al-Jazeera said the Taliban had deployed some forces, including Afghan Arab volunteers, in the area to study maps and other documents found near the helicopter. One gunman taunted U.S. troops to come to Afghanistan as he showed bin Laden's sons a picture of U.S. soldiers. "You see. They are commandos? They are a superpower only in Hollywood and in films," said the gunman in English. "Their heroes are only mythical like Rambo and they won't come on the land of Afghanistan. And if they do come here, they will end up in pieces like this," he added, pointing to the wreckage. One gunman carried an automatic rifle inscribed with the Arabic words "Death to Bush". Bin Laden, one of 57 children of one of Saudi Arabia's richest families, has numerous children from several wives.

Laden bin Laden indeed.

THURSDAY NOVEMBER 15 2001 Bin Laden's nuclear secrets found FROM ANTHONY LOYD IN KABUL * Times reporter finds blueprint for 'Nagasaki bomb' * Singed files left by fleeing terrorists OSAMA BIN LADEN�S al-Qaeda network held detailed plans for nuclear devices and other terrorist bombs in one of its Kabul headquarters. The Times discovered the partly burnt documents in a hastily abandoned safe house in the Karta Parwan quarter of the city. Written in Arabic, German, Urdu and English, the notes give detailed designs for missiles, bombs and nuclear weapons. There are descriptions of how the detonation of TNT compresses plutonium into a critical mass, sparking a chain reaction, and ultimately a thermonuclear reaction. Both President Bush and British ministers are convinced that bin Laden has access to nuclear material and Mr Bush said earlier this month that al-Qaeda was �seeking chemical, biological and nuclear weapons�. The discovery of the detailed bomb-making instructions, along with studies into chemical and nuclear devices, confirms the West�s worst fears and raises the spectre of plans for an attack that would far exceed the September 11 atrocities in scale and gravity. Nuclear experts say the design suggests that bin Laden may be working on a fission device, similar to Fat Man, the bomb dropped on Nagasaki. However, they emphasised that it was extremely difficult to build a viable warhead. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001390014-2001395995,00.html

from the London Times Death of Bin Laden's deputy: How the US killed Al-Qaeda leaders by remote control by Stephen Grey "As American officials watched with mounting excitement, three US air force F-15 Strike Eagle planes, America�s premier attack fighters, were moved into position. Deployed from bases in the Gulf, the aircraft had been �loitering� in the Kabul area, kept aloft by inflight refuelling, awaiting the right moment to move in. "Nobody knew precisely who they would kill if the order to attack the hotel was given, but intelligence analysts felt certain that senior Al-Qaeda officials were meeting in the hotel to consider their next moves as the Taliban regime was collapsing all over the country. Finally, the order was given in Florida for the target to be engaged. "Locking the cross-hairs of their weapon guidance systems on the hotel below, each of the three F-15s let loose a single GBU-15 �smart bomb�. Weighing 2,500lb each, these bombs are guided on to their targets by infrared cameras in their noses. "As the bombs slammed into the side of the hotel, the Predator completed the mission, launching its two Hellfire missiles at the vehicles in the car park. Almost everyone at the scene was incinerated, with close to 100 people killed. "It was many hours before American officials could know just how much they had achieved. Then, in panic and pandemonium, an Al-Qaeda operative breached the organisation�s strict security rules and revealed that a large number of the movement�s senior figures had been killed � including Mohammed Atef, the 57-year-old deputy to Bin Laden and the terrorist group�s senior military commander. " http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/article/0,,9002-2001531185,00.html

Show us the money, department. Taliban reply: $50 m bounty on Bush's head PIN BOLDAK, Afghanistan: Osama Bin Laden did not have the capability to carry out the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US and the $25 m dollar bounty will not lead to his capture, a Taliban official said Wednesday. Mohammed Saeed Haqqani, security chief at the border town of Spin Boldak in Kandahar, one of the last remaining provinces still in Taliban control, said the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon were the work of Jews trying to blacken the name of Islam. "The US has not provided any information about his (Bin Laden's) involvement in the attacks," Haqqani told reporters. "He has not the telecommunications means to conduct such activities. Being our guest we are duty bound to protect him" and not hand him over to the US authorities. "The Americans have offered $25 m for Osama. We will give $50 m for (US President George W.) Bush even though we are a poor country." US Secretary of State Colin Powell boosted the reward for Bin Laden from $5 mto 25 m on Tuesday, with the bounty advertised in radio broadcasts to Afghanistan, and leaflets distributed on the ground. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher has said that more than 22,000 tips have been received about Bin Laden since September 11, but none has yielded results. All good Muslims would reject the opportunity to cash in on the bounty for Bin Laden's capture, Haqqani said. "Being good Muslims we have a strong faith, that's why it is not tempting to us." Asked for proof of Jewish involvement in the September 11 strikes, Haqqani said 4,000 Jews had not gone to work at the World Trade Centre on the day. "And why did the television cameras know where the second plane was going to hit? "They are trying to eliminate Afghanistan. They are trying to blacken our name." The official said the US demand for Bin Laden's handover was hypocritical given the fact that British author Salman Rushdie was living in New York. An Iranian fatwa condemning Rushdie to death was issued after the Indian- born writer allegedly blasphemed Islam in his 1988 book The Satanic Verses. "It is not clear that Osama has been involved in crimes but it is a hard fact that Rushdie committed a crime against Islam. Why are people taking care of him in your country?" Haqqani said. Bin Laden has been accused of masterminding the attacks on September 11. The Taliban's failure to hand him over to US authorities prompted the launch of an aerial bombing campaign that has lasted for nearly seven weeks. ( AFP )

British and US intelligence is pretty sure bin Laden's ass is holed up here: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/picture/0,,2001550174,00.gif

David Kline (dkline) Mon Dec 3 '01 (09:46) 39 lines Should we have known that Bin Laden and the Taliban had created an army of not just hundreds or even a few thousand but maybe 30,000 or more Arab froiegn legionaries in Afghanistan? Absent human intelligence -- Pashtun, Dari & Arabic-speaking operatives INSIDE the Al-Queda/Taliban network -- I'm not sure how we could have. I mean, the Pakistani ISI knew but would never have told us, and we were too fucking stupid and blind to realize that the ISI has been lying to us, aiding, and covering up for OBL and the Taliban since Day 1. What about satellite intel? Well, you can spot 50 training camps and thousands of turbanned "troops," but how do you know that a) they're Arabs and Pakistanis rather than legitimate Afghan army soldiers, and b) that they're "terrorists" rather than legitimate Afghan army soldiers. Maybe we had intelligence that we shined on. Surely our myopic tendency in recent years to downgrade the OBL/AlQueda/ISI/Islamic Fundi threat didn't help us to *appreciate* whatever information we did have. But we also are faced here with an unprecdented situation. It reminds me a bit of the debate over the US response to knowledge during WW2 of Hitler's extermination camps. Up to a certain point, it's understandable that we downplauyed early rumors of such camps. I mean, who could conceive of such horrors. But *after* a certain point, well some folks in the State dept. & elsewhere clearly had some answering to do. So up to a certain point, I mean, who could ever imagine that a terrorist organization would seize the entire apparatus of state of a sovereign nation and turn a whole country into a base for armed terror operations? And that this terror network would send recuiters out into the Muslim world to bring in 30,000-50,000 jihadist voolunteers for training? I mean, c'mon! That's got to be just a paranoid fantasy, right? Except that at a certain point maybe we should have know more than we did -- or did more with what we knew -- and I don't know where to draw the line. Maybe it's one of those who knew what when situations

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/339/nation/Bin_Laden_eludes_US_with_Afghan_lore+.shtml Bin Laden eludes US with Afghan lore By Indira A.R. Lakshmanan, Globe Staff, 12/5/2001 UETTA, Pakistan - Eight weeks after the United States began bombing Afghanistan, suspected terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden remains hidden in a rugged, sparsely populated landscape of impassable mountains and hidden caves. How the world's most wanted fugitive, with a $25 million bounty on his head, has managed to elude high-tech satellites and listening devices and US commandos is a fascinating tale of a man who has turned hiding into an art form. In a Texas-sized country with terrain so rough that it could obscure legions of fugitives, bin Laden reportedly avoids detection by changing his location nightly and using muleback couriers instead of satellite telephones. Specialists on Afghanistan and Al Qaeda, the terrorist network bin Laden runs, credit both his paranoid personality and his familiarity with Afghanistan's topography, which dates to his years as a guerrilla in the 1979-89 war against the Soviet occupation. Also important, say the specialists, are the loyalty he ....

We may have found him. �It Ain�t Over� U.S. Blasts Suspected Bin Laden Hideout as N. Alliance Assaults Al Qaeda Dec. 10 � The U.S. military today dropped a 15,000-pound "daisy cutter" bomb on the mouth of a cave where key al Qaeda leaders were suspected of hiding, as American forces stepped up their bombing of a mountainous region believed to be the hideout of Osama bin Laden. � 'Daisy Cutter' Hits Suspected Hideout � Aid Worker Sees No Quick-Fix for Afghans � New Breast Cancer Drug May Save Lives It was not known exactly who was in the cave or how much damage the bomb did, but a Pentagon spokesman said the weapon � which incinerates everything within 600 yards and has only been used twice before in the 2-month-old Afghan campaign � was sure to have a "negative effect" on anyone hiding nearby. "There is a psychological effect of having a munition of 15,000 pounds of explosive capability that's brought into a very narrowly defined area," Rear Adm. John Stufflebeem said when asked why the bomb was dropped. "This cave complex is literally on the sheer walls of a valley, and therefore the reverberation effect that goes up in those caves should have some kind of a negative effect. "The other would be just the obvious effect of the high explosive yield," Stufflebeem said. "It was at a target, at a cave target, and that cave target should no longer be usable for anybody to get in or out of." He said it was dropped on the cave because "it was believed that that's where some substantial al Qaeda forces would be, and possibly including senior leadership." more at http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/STRIKE_MAIN.html

Speaking of Tora Bora: http://www.somethingawful.com/features/binladenfortress/ The TRUTH comes out.

Boy, oh boy, we got Bin Laden's computer ! Computer in Kabul holds chilling memos PC apparently used by al-Qaida leaders reveals details of four years of terrorism By Alan Cullison and Andrew Higgins THE WALL STREET JOURNAL JKABUL, Afghanistan, Dec. 31 Q JLast May, someone sat down at an IBM desktop here and typed out a polite letter to a bitter foe of al-Qaida, the anti- Taliban leader Ahmed Shah Massoud. The writer tapped at the computer for 97 minutes, according to its internal record, then printed out the fruit of his labor: a request for an interview with Massoud, to be conducted by "one of our best journalists, Mr. Karim Touzani." ON SEPT. 9, two men posing as journalists, one carrying a passport in the name of Karim Touzani, detonated a hidden bomb as they interviewed Massoud. The legendary Afghan commander was mortally wounded. Two days later came the suicide attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. Now, as al-Qaida, the group blamed for all of those lethal attacks, is uprooted from its Afghan sanctuaries, it is leaving behind cyber- fingerprints. The letter to Massoud is one of hundreds of text documents and video files in a computer evidently used for four years by al-Qaida chieftains in Kabul. Its hard drive is a repository for correspondence with militant Muslims around the world, portraying al-Qaida bosses struggling to administer, inspire and discipline the sprawling global organization. DAILY CONCERNS Dating from early 1997 through this fall, the files paint a picture of both ghoulish ambitions and quotidian frustrations within an organization that, despite its medieval zealotry, sometimes mimicked a multinational corporation. Memos refer to al-Qaida as "the company" and its leadership as "the general management." The computer files don't appear to detail the plotting of Sept. 11 or to contain any clear plans for future attacks. But hundreds of documents, ranging from the murderous to the mundane, illuminate issues bearing on America's war on terrorism. Among them: Files outlining al-Qaida efforts to launch a program of chemical and biological weapons, code-named al Zabadi, Arabic for curdled milk. As part of the plan to develop a "home-brew nerve gas," members were given a long reading list that included a study titled "Current Concepts: Napalm." A video file in which Osama bin Laden speaks for 23 minutes, focusing on what he calls America's anti-Muslim crusade and mentioning the Sept. 11 attacks. Another video shows a top al-Qaida cleric and spokesman, Sheikh Abu Gaith, appearing to acknowledge al-Qaida responsibility for the strikes. "God Almighty has enabled our brothers to carry out these strikes," he says, "and make the enemies of God taste what they made our brothers taste." A letter in which a militant using the name Abu Yaser stresses that "hitting the Americans and Jews is a target of great value and has its rewards in this life and, God willing, the afterlife." The letter is addressed to top al-Qaida lieutenant Ayman al-Zawahri and the author says he has written to bin Laden separately. A memo referring to a "legal study" on "the killing of civilians." The writer, acknowledging this is "a sensitive issue," says he has found ways to keep "the enemy" from using the killing of "civilians, specifically women and children," to undermine the militants' cause. STREETS OF KABUL How a computer apparently stuffed with al-Qaida secrets came to light involves a combination of happenstance and the opportunism of war in a country schooled for 20 years in conflict and chaos. The desktop was installed in a two-story brick building in Kabul that was used by al-Qaida as an office, according to a looter who says he grabbed it and a Compaq laptop from the office. He says he entered the building, which is now occupied by Northern Alliance soldiers, after a November U.S. bombing raid killed several senior al-Qaida officials in a nearby property. As surviving al-Qaida operatives fled Kabul ahead of the city's fall, the looter offered the computers for sale to a local computer merchant. A Wall Street Journal reporter acquired them for $1,100, copying hundreds of files and getting some of them translated from the Arabic. U.S. officials confirm the authenticity of the files, most protected by passwords, and say they provide a trove of information about the inner workings of the secretive organization. Frequent users of the computer, who left their names or aliases on dozens of files, appear to include two top lieutenants of bin Laden: Zawahri and Mohammed Atef. Zawahri is a former Cairo surgeon who merged his own Egyptian terror outfit with al-Qaida in 1998, and is widely regarded as bin Laden's chief strategist. Atef, killed in a November bombing raid near Kabul, headed al-Qaida's military wing. U.S. officials believe he masterminded the lethal 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. It is unclear whether bin Laden used the computer, though several texts stored on the hard drive make elliptical references to the Saudi exile, referring to "Abu Abdullah" and other bin Laden aliases. Users of the computer evidently didn't make much use of e-mail. Afghan phone connections are poor and satellite links easily monitored. Instead, it appears they composed correspondence on the computer, then either copied it to a diskette or made a print-out to be delivered by hand. Notes in the computer frequently lament hitches in delivery of correspondence. The hard drive contains messages to or from activists in Western Europe and Asia, Albania, Yemen, Egypt and other outposts of the network. Identifying the authors of texts stored on the computer is often difficult. Most use code names or aliases. There are frequent references, for example, to "Abdel Moez" or "Nur al-Din" Q names U.S. authorities list as among aliases for Zawahri. "Salah al-din," another name that appears frequently on the files, also appears to be an alias for Zawahri. A series of files stored in a folder labeled "Hafs" appears to contain documents of Atef, who, according to a U.S. indictment relating to the embassy bombings, used "Abu Hafs" as his primary alias. KEEP OUT Sometimes, real names appear. The computer was used to compose a sign for an office, reading "This is a work place! For those who do not work here, please do not enter at all. Dr. Ayman." Many of the documents stored on the computer focus on housekeeping matters, particularly funding and personnel problems. Complaints about money and unpaid salaries turn up frequently. "I am almost broke," wrote one operative. "The money I have may not last until the feast. Please send money or bring it to us as soon as possible." Another pinched activist was told to find a house for just $30 a month. Other files offer practical if chilling advice. A bomb-making guide provides tips on the use of dishwasher timers, alarm clocks and digital watches. There is also a table giving recommended lethal doses for various poisons: how much it takes to kill people of different body weights. The computer files also show al-Qaida leaders celebrating. A homemade video file made after Sept. 11 features television footage of terrified Americans fleeing the flaming World Trade Center, overlain with a soundtrack of mocking chants and prayer in Arabic. And, after the East Africa embassy bombings in 1998, a congratulatory message to Zawahri praised "what you did and all the works and the labors that you did to plague the enemy of God." The message, stored in the computer as a Microsoft Word document, is signed "Abu Yaser." The bombings killed at least 224 people, mostly local Africans rather than Americans, and injured more than 5,000. Apparently emboldened by the death toll, the writer of the message advised: "We should not look for the easier targets, but we should look for the more strategic places, the targets which will harm the enemy and exact revenge upon them." HOME BREW Soon after the African bombings, the computer files show al-Qaida embarking on potentially its most deadly project: the "curdled milk" biological- and chemical-warfare program. A memo written in April 1999, apparently by Zawahri, notes that "the destructive power of these weapons is no less than that of nuclear weapons." The memo laments al-Qaida's sluggishness in realizing the menace of these weapons, noting that "despite their extreme danger, we only became aware of them when the enemy drew our attention to them by repeatedly expressing concern that they can be produced simply." As a first step, the memo suggests, militants must brush up on their reading. The memo gives a detailed precis of an American history of chemical and germ warfare. It lists a catalog of exotic killers, from anthrax to Rocky Mountain spotted fever. A May 7, 1999, file indicates that by that time, al-Qaida leaders had earmarked $2,000 to $4,000 for "start-up" costs of the program. In a letter dated May 23 and written under one of Zawahri's aliases, the author reports discussing some "very useful ideas" during a visit to Abu Khabab, the alias of an elderly Egyptian scientist. "It just needs some experiments to develop its practical use." Bin Laden: Alleged targets, operations, and colleaguesJ J Particularly encouraging, the letter in the computer files said, was a home- brew nerve gas made from insecticides and a chemical additive that would help speed up penetration into the skin. The writer said Khabab had supplied a computer disk that gave details of "his product" in a WinZip file, and "my neighbor opened it by God's will." U.S. officials, citing satellite photos and intelligence gathered from local residents, say Abu Khabab experimented with nerve gas on dogs and rabbits at a camp near the eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad. The camp, one of several in the area hit by U.S. bombs after Sept. 11, was known as Abu Khabab in honor of the scientist. In a letter dated May 26 and stored in the computer under the same alias as earlier correspondence, the author says he was "very enthusiastic" about the Zabadi project and was especially pleased with Abu Khabab's "significant progress." It isn't clear how far al-Qaida got in making nerve gas. A June 1999 memo found on the hard drive and addressed to "Abu Hafs" Q Atef's alias Q gave instructions for building a laboratory, ordering that walls be covered with oil paint and floors with tiles or cement "to facilitate cleaning with insecticides." But, noted the memo, "construction should not start until electricity is installed." It also called for evasive action to avoid detection: "Periodically (for example about every three months) one of the locations is to be canceled and replaced by another." A progress report complained that the use of nonspecialists had "resulted in a waste of effort and money," urging the recruitment of experts as the "fastest, safest and cheapest" route. A June 1999 memo said the program should seek cover and talent in educational institutions, which it said were "more beneficial to us and allow easy access to specialists, which will greatly benefit us in the first stage, God willing." The computer files show leaders in Kabul trying to keep a tight leash on militants abroad. "The general management shall be consulted on issues related to joining and firing from the company, the general strategy and the company name," intoned a lengthy report on the wayward ways of an al-Qaida cell in Yemen. A member of the cell, the report complained, had been overheard talking "in an unsuitable way" with a woman on the telephone and had then tried to dodge questions about the relationship by "pretending to be busy reading the Quran." An activist code-named "Abbas," apparently under a cloud for talking too much and other infractions, sent groveling messages from an unidentified outpost promising to stick to "orders issued by the management" and "refrain from giving any interviews to the press or the radio ... without consulting with you and taking your permission." In a stern note warning against lax security, a message bearing what appears to be Zawahri's code name ordered someone called "Hamza" to stop "writing my name on messages as he did" and start using two envelopes. "Place my name on the inner envelope," he instructed. Islamic militants in Egypt, meanwhile, were grilled over their 1998 decision to declare a truce with the government in Cairo and give up violence. Several files on the computer focus on this quarrel over strategy. "Noble brother, I hesitated in writing this letter when it was announced that you had called for a stop to all military operations," reads a letter from Zawahri to a leader of Egypt's Islamic Group. "Does that position apply to inciting people to perform jihad against Americans? And does it apply to Israel as well?" SQUABBLING WITH THE TALIBAN Another headache was al-Qaida's relationship with the Taliban. A July 1998 report stored in the computer details what seems to have been a near rupture in relations between Afghanistan's then leaders and bin Laden's network. Addressed to Ayman Q apparently Zawahri Q the report describes an angry meeting between the Taliban leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar, and "Abu Abdullah." This could be a reference to bin Laden, since that was one of his aliases. The report blames the quarrel on a "bankrupt failure to achieve any real external victory." It warns that Arabs operating in Afghanistan risk losing access to their training camps, just as they were earlier expelled from Sudan, bin Laden's main base until 1996. Discontent sometimes nearly bubbled over into mutiny. The unnamed author of a June 1998 memorandum outlined a catalog of 21 gripes presented to "the doctor." They suggest an organization swamped by feuds and petty back- biting: Why has Yunis been put in charge of the archives? Why did a hard drive with "important documents relating to the company" get lost in Sudan? How much money was spent on a trip to Malaysia? What was the point of a visit to Chechnya? In a final burst of disgust, the author questioned "management methods that have led to the departure of some brothers from the company and nearly led to the temptation of others." A more mundane concern, fund raising, evidently prompted a project to which Atef, the al-Qaida military chief, lent his name free of aliases. Its goal: to cash in on bin Laden's notoriety. In October 1998, shortly after U.S. cruise missiles slammed into an al-Qaida training camp in retaliation for the Africa embassy bombings, the Kabul computer was used to create letterhead for a fictional company, Challenge for Media Services, and to draft letters to ABC, CNN and CBS. Each was signed Dr. Mohammed Atef and offered a business deal: cash for film of bin Laden and his bomb-destroyed training camp at Khost in eastern Afghanistan. J J J J PROMISING A THREAT The letters promised the networks footage in which bin Laden "openly threatened U.S. and Israeli troops" and urged the networks to send representatives to Kabul or Jalalabad, to ensure "priority in getting the material and easiness in negotiation." But the letters don't appear to have been sent. They were left in a folder marked "not sent" on the computer's hard drive. ABC, CBS and CNN say they never received any letters nor bought any videos from Atef. More sinister was the missive drafted early this summer to Massoud, who was the leader of the Taliban's only significant opposition in Afghanistan. "We ... are at your service in the hope that our collaboration will be long and fruitful," read the letter, written in clumsy French in the name of an obscure, London-based Islamic information agency. It outlined what it said were plans for television reportage on Afghanistan. The interview request carried the name of Yasser Al-Siri, director of the Islamic Observation Center in London. Al-Siri was arrested in London in October and last month charged with conspiring to murder Massoud. He has denied any involvement in the assassination. Though written under Al-Siri's name, the letter, according to the Kabul computer's internal properties, which give the user's name in Arabic, was crafted by Mohammed Zawahri. It is unclear whether this refers to Zawahri, who is known to speak French and sometimes goes by the alias "Abu Mohammed," or possibly to his brother, Mohammed Zawahiri, a fellow Islamic militant who helped set up a terror cell in Albania in the 1990s. The two men who posed as journalists to interview Massoud Sept. 9, both French-speaking Arabs, carried stolen Belgian passports. One died immediately after setting off a hidden explosive. The other, wounded, was shot dead by guards. Witnesses say they detonated the bomb moments after asking Massoud one of the questions from a list proposed in a French- language document contained in the Kabul computer: "How will you deal with the Osama bin Laden issue when you are in power and what do you see as the solution to this issue?" Hugh Pope and Christopher Cooper contributed to this article. (((Kudos!)))

You know, I'm beginning to wonder whether or not we will ever get Bin Laden. It seems that the only people who have some sort of tab on him- and it isn't much as it appears to be delivered to them- is Al Jezera (sp?) the tv station. I though that Musharaf's comment last month (january) about bin laden likely dead as a result of kidney failure rather odd... if this supposed ally of our's (the US) in this war on terrorism, is attempting to get us to stop searching (at last that's what he statement appeared to be to me) for bin laden, then what in the world are we doing aligning ourselves with him? and now this thing with the WSJ reporter...pakistan is a dangerous place, just as afghanistan is. Does anybody else have doubts as to whether we will ever find this puke??

We'll find if someone rats him out for the $25 mil. He's slippery and no tell where in the world he is or what he looks like now. He has millions to fund being a fugitive. He's not our main objective says Bush, but it would be great to nab him. Dead or alive.