Oh, so we all can create new topics. Good. Stefanie, you saw my remarks on the 5-minute A&E promo? Has anyone else seen it? My 7 year old did and very solemly informed me that he had learned of a new movie he knew I would like. Amy

Amy, I don't think I did see your remarks on the new promo. What was it like? Stefanie

Hi I finally found this place. I did see the 5 minute teaser regarding the A&E EMMA, I'm quite afraid that I don't like the person playing Mr Knightley

I agree Laura M. He doesn't look to "hot"

I will be watching it this Sunday. I'll definitely make sure that it gets taped!!

Oh Bernie! Please give us a full review!

From what I've seen on the net of Mr. Knightly, I'd have to agree with Donna. It seems that he is closer to a Mr. Collins than a Mr. Darcy. Stefanie

He's a dog, girls!!!

First of all I must say I agree with Rebecca but... For those of us who had not seen Colin Firth before P&P, would we have thought him "hot" only seeing a promo picture. I cannot honestly answer since I admire him more and more everytime I watch Mr.Darcy give Lizzie the look. I can only say I did not notice him in Circle of friends or Secret Garden. Now I rent them just to catch a glimpse. What are your thoughts?

Mich, Arnessa and I discussed this last night...we decided it was a combination of his acting talent and the role of Darcy that made him attractive in P&P...not to mention the way wardrobe and makeup cleaned him up... - K

Kail, But if you had only seen a picture of Firth in a trailer for P&P would you have thought him attractive? After seeing the picture of Mr.Knightly (A&E) we all seem to think the guy rather...unattractive. Could he have the same presence as Firth on screen and we will think differently of him later?

Let us hope so, Mich. Waiting breathlessly for Bernie's review...

G'day, As the movie version of "Emma" has only recently started screening here in Oz I was dismayed to see there was a series being made. So soon, albeit too soon can only lead to unfavourable comparisons. Perhaps Jeremy Northam should have been picked for the role again? Our media says we are "Austened-out!" I suggest in the meantime go and see "Shine". It's totally different and maybe very confronting but the piano playing is sublime.

Austened-out?! I am all astonishment! I suppose that non-Austeniens could get weary of all the Austen adaptations, but I plan to see them all as many times as possible -- in the theater, and on video as soon as available. As to Mr Knightly, I think we must suspend judgment until we see the latest version. While Jeremy Northam is gorgeous, I am quite certain my heart can be won by a worthy character. (Prior to seeing Sense & Sensibility I would not have assumed that Alan Rickman would make Col. Brandon so much more attractive than Willoughby, but it worked.) A good actor, a good director, a good part -- and of course a marvelously good story. When it comes to Jane Austen, I always want more. Even if it's just a new version of Emma!

If you like Alan Rickman, and tear-jerkers, see Truly, Madly, Deeply. It's a wonderful film from the director of the English Patient and starring Emma's Mrs. Elton (Juliet Stevenson).

Ann -- I recently purchased Truly, Madly, Deeply and I've started the video. I enjoy Juliet Stevenson, even though she's not doing comedy here. And I am certain I shall enjoy Alan Rickman as soon as he comes in for a longer appearance. Now, if I could just stay awake 23 hours a day to see, read, and compute everything I want/need to do!

Now something completely different. How about the "Three Degrees of Alan Rickman"? ]Austened-out?! I am all astonishment! I suppose that non-Austeniens could get ]weary of all the Austen adaptations, but I plan to see them all as many times ]as possible -- in the theater, and on video as soon as available. Kathleen: Well this fanatic isn't but I suppose most Australians are. It took the second screening of P&P2 before people were clammouring for more. Then Sense & Sensibility and Persuasion came on at the same time, and more recently Emma. I for one though look forward to the series. Bernie I would be interested in your review too so I can tell Ostentatious Jane about it. Alan Rickman made a good villian in Die Hard II.

Ian -- I agree w/ your assessment of Mr. Rickman as Hans Gruber in Die Hard. I do not usually watch action movies, and I do not especially like Bruce Willis, but I rented this movie and fast forwarded through all the parts w/o Alan Rickman. My friends laugh at me, but they have their quirks too! So, where in Rosings Park will you be lurking next? Pray, tell us if you spot Lizzie or Darcy.

Bernie!!!!!! Full report if you please. You want questions? Would that be an easier way for you to satisfy our curiousity? I will start: does Knightly grow on you? Comment on casting of Frank, Jane, Miss Bates, Isabelle, Mr Elton. I already know I am going to love Emma and Mrs Weston and I have to believe that Knightley has something going for him because our producers know what they are doing.

Once more into the breeches... I was reading an article (on the train on my way home) previewing the two rival costume dramas � BBC's "Tenant of Wildfell Hall" and ITV's "Emma". I thought you might be interested in what they said. "So, with memories of Colin Firth's Mr. Darcy still warm in many a bosom, we are in for another procession of gels in Regency frocks escorted by eligible bucks in riding boots.....So, two rival costume dramas vying for the viewes's eye : which is the more pleasing ? Opinions may depend on what we must call theDarcy Factor. "For all its multitude of merits, the BBC's P&P has created an unreasonable demand among the nation's women for men in mysterious trousers. Indeed, the day may not be far off when the prime requiremennt of any classic drama will be not so much fidelity to the text but the presence of a hero with all the necessary basic attributes : hot�coal eyes (betraying the unseen blaze in the Aga double�oven of his breast), hair curly�going�on�tousled and thighs that can grip a mettlesome mare like a denture�fixative." I was sitting with a very large cheesy grin by this time! Needless to say, I received some very strange looks. "In this regard, The Tenant of Wildfell Hall has the edge on Emma. It has Toby Stephens and Rupert Graves. It is Graves who comes nearest to the Darcy mould but, alas, he is the villain...Emma is a much prettier affair but rates a much lower reading on the Darcy meter. Mark Strong is a perfectly convincing Mr. Knightley but he is probably too sweet for viewers who prefer their heroes to indulge in occasional outbreaks of nostril�flaring and boot�thwacking. As the rakish dandy Frank Churchill, Raymond Coulthard's smile puts one in mind of a piranha doing a Colgate toothpaste commercial." (Excerpts from EVENING STANDARD.) So, I will now give you my opinion on both these dramas. I know most of you are eagerly awaiting Emma, but in my opinion if you get the chance to see "The Tenant of Wildfell Hall", then do so. (It is a coproduction between the BBC, CBC and WGBH Boston). Starting with Emma. Since I am a JA fan, I knew straight away that I was going to enjoy this production. After watching it, my first reaction was 2 hours and 5 minutes (inclusive of all commercial breaks) wasn't long enough to do justice to JA's story � oh, for a 5 hour BBC serialisation! (Then again I didn't think 5 hours of P&P was long enough!). Part of the irriatation was the fact that there were so many commercial breaks � 5 in all � which tended to jar the continuitiy of the story. Due to the time constraint, the film tended to jump from major incident to major incident, thus cutting some of the finer nuances of the story, and as a result, you didn't get the same impression of character development as you did in P&P. This much said, although I didn't enjoy Emma as much as P&P, I rate it at least as highly as the 2 hour version of "Persuasion". (On a sliding scale I'd give P&P2 10 and Emma 8.5/9). I thought Kate Bekinsale's portrayal of Emma was excellent � a much more down to earth version than Gwynneth Paltrow's Emma, which seemed to verge on frivolity at times. Mark Strong's Knightley, though not as handsome as Jeremy Northam's, grew on you as the film progressed � similar in effect to Ciaran Hinds' Capt. Wentworth. You really do feel for him when he knows he's in love with Emma and yearns for her love in return, yet he feels that she is in love with the undeserving Frank. The scenes where Knightley chastises Emma for her various follies/indiscretions are very well acted. He was especially forceful in the scene where he berates Emma for her callous treatment of Miss Bates � Emma was most heartily sorry. The supporting cast contained a number of well known faces. Bernard Hepton (Sir Thomas Bertram in Mansfield Park) as Mr. Woodhouse, Samantha Bond (Maria Bertram in MP) as Mrs. Weston, and Prunella Scales (Sybil Fawlty) as the garrilous Miss Bates. All played their parts with the necessary aplomb. Dominic Rowan depicts Mr. Elton as an egotistcal, hypocritical, ingratiating "sleazeball" (whose primary mission in life in the first third of the film is to get himself a rich wife). Upon marriage to the ubiquitous Mrs. E, he subsides to a degree of aloofness, which I don't recall in the book � I always took him to be invariably rude and boorish. Mrs. E portrayed by Lucy Robinson (Mrs. Hurst) is a real hoot. I know that she is meant to have a West Country accent (coming from Bristol) but Lucy's Mrs. E sometimes appeared to come from over the Atlantic! I laughed so much whenever she said anything. Finally, Raymond Coulthard's handsome, blonde Frank Churchill was as much of the fop as I expected him to be, although sometimes that smile of his did grate on my nerves. The description of the Colgate advert (See above) is spot on. On the musical score, several duets are sung. Frank, in my opinion has a very good voice. Both Jane and Emma play the piano tolerably well � Jane better than Emma of course. The music scores chosen for the dances in Emma are far less jolly than in P&P and the incidental music in general wasn't as emotive as in P&P2. Darcy factor 8 for Mark Strong and 8 for Raymond Coulthard. One down one to go. (I promise, I will make this shorter!). Moving to The Tenant of Wildfell Hall, this is a much darker novel dealing with such topics as abandonment, rape and repression. Tara Fitzgerald's portrayal as the much maligned Helen Graham/Huntingdon is superb. Toby Stephens' Gilbert Markham (a Yorkshire farmer who slowly falls in love with the mysterious Tenant of Wildfell Hall [aka Helen] and feels that his love is never to be requited) is played with much feeling � both passion , understanding and consuming hatred � and complements Tara's enforced aloofness very well. Finally, Rupert Graves plays Arthur Huntington, the villain of the piece. Here is a man, who upon marrying Helen, is perpetually drunk, dallies with his friends' sisters � in front of Helen no less �, treats his wife with contempt, and after the birth of their son makes a virtual prisoner of his wife in their home. Rupert Graves is dark, brooding and handsome and I think many a young lady will feel that his performance is on a par with Colin Firth's. For me though, Huntington a thouroughly base character, whom I never could get to like, will not supplant Colin Firth's brilliant Darcy! Darcy factor 9 for Rupert Graves and 8 for Toby Stephens. There you have it. I had a vastly enjoyable Sunday evening and I hope I have whetted your appetites somewhat, leaving you wanting to know more..... Bernie PS. Amy, regarding possible contributions/bribes as payment for your efforts at providing the BB, the best I can come up with is a copy of "The making of Emma" complete with Andrew Davies' screenplay.

Bernie, Thank you so much for your very complete review and the article from the Standard. I loved the article - I remember seeing similar stories last summer in England when they were still filming Emma. In one Andrew Davies commented on the wonderbra effect of the regency dresses, which he seemed to like. By your reviews, I think I just might have to get a back-up set of P&P2, since I am liable to wear the one I have out from daily viewing. I'm looking forward to Emma, though. I think Tenant might only come here next season - it wasn't listed on Masterpiece Theatre for this season, but maybe in late spring.

Bernie, thank you for the wonderful review- can't wait to see it! I feel compelled, however to comment upon your complaint of having 5 commercial breaks in the course of 2 hrs, 5 min. You do not realize it , but you are most fortunate indeed. Here in the US we feel ourselves lucky to have only 5 commercials in one hour! I am sorely afraid that A&E will be snipping scenes again in order to fit in more adverts.

Thanks bunches, Bernie. I can't wait to see the new Emma. You've done more than whet my appetite. I promise to watch the Tenant of Wildfell Hall, too. That newspaper review is classic. Those thighs! Is that the magic ingredient that makes Darcy so (ahhh!) irresistible, after all?

Thanks so much Bernie - now we are all, indeed, eager to be savoring such delights!

"...Thighs that can grip a meddlesome mare like a denture-fixative"??? Giddyup, indeed!!

You are wonderful, Berniie? Does anybody have any idea when "The Tenant.." will air here in N.A.?

Cheryl you are right. What could they possibly cut out of two hours. They will ruin Emma. Inko I hope we don't have to wait too long for Tenant,I think we should email PBS to find out when it will be on. Well done Bernie, I can't wait

Cheryl, I know I should count myself lucky. When I was in the States, I was constantly vexed by the frequency of ad's. Since I have a copy of the Screenplay, I'm going to watch Emma again this weekend to see if any of the scenes were cut. I will report back in due course. By the way if any of you are interested in the "Making of Emma" book I'll be more than happy to supply details. I'll be away for the rest of the week at a Conference in Harrogate (more JA connections) � so will be suffering from severe withdrawl symptoms. See you all next week.

Cheryl, I know I should count myself lucky. When I was in the States, I was constantly vexed by the frequency of ad's. Since I have a copy of the Screenplay, I'm going to watch Emma again this weekend to see if any of the scenes were cut. I will report back in due course. By the way if any of you are interested in the "Making of Emma" book I'll be more than happy to supply details. I'll be away for the rest of the week at a Conference in Harrogate (more JA connections) � so will be suffering from severe withdrawl symptoms. See you all next week.

] Bernie: ] By the way if any of you are interested in the "Making of Emma" book I'll be more than happy to supply details. Please do, Bernie!

Please Bernie - I'd love to have the details of the Making of Emma book, and where it's available - in England, U.S., or Internet. Thanks

Enjoyed the review, thanks Bernie. I saw the film 'Emma' yesterday! Got some catching up to do in Australia!

So the screenplay for Davies' Emma is available but not P&P2. It's not fair!!!

Thanks a lot Bernie. OOh I can understand your peculiar face and the effect it had on your fellow passengers, hot-coal eyes and that bit about dentive-fixa- tive, I just gasp and sigh. The entire article is nourishing for I know not how long I will have to wait for for it, ITV Emma that is. Have a comment on the film with Jeremy if you are still interested in him and Gwyneth!? Comparision of Mr B:s Maggot in P&P2 and EMMA As I saw Emma a few days ago, I shall keep to that version. I thought it was so light and full of grace to illustrate how Mr Knightley, - for the first time? - allowed himself to be in love and regard Emma as a grownup equal whom he was permitted to consider a woman and not his little sister. (No indeed not) And Emma responded to that joyfully and tender still unconscious of her heart. In this version the maggot was a relief whereas in P&P2 it is so full of tension. It was a deligthful surprise to me that it was in the film at all. I quite startled and for a few seconds could not place the music. Ann2

The A&E WEB sight currently features the BEHIND THE SCENES of the making of EMMA, similiar to P&P2 where actors, director, scene writer are interviewed.

Does anyone know when they are broadcasting this behind the scenes stuff? I'd like to see it, but I don't have time to watch A&E all day inthe hopes of catching it! It would take too much time away from the chat room!

]too much time away from the chat room! __ Cheryl, you are too funny (and pathetic!) The one time I saw it was just before 8 am on a weekday. Since classroom does not have commercials, there's time then. I don't know when else the schedule would permit. Maybe other times when there are not so many commercials? Mid-day? I don't know.

I just saw the long Promo the on Sunday before/after Biography/also a shorter promo. They are also running "Specials" ad. Included in this promo are scenes from P&P2 in a kaildescope type fashion. They go by very fast. What was announced is that "Specials" will be on every Sunday at 8:00 and repeated at 12:00. The kids let me know when the promos are on. Airs Sunday Feb. 16th.

Hope I'm not too off-topic, but does anyone know if the Gwenyth Paltrow version of EMMA has been released on videotape? I've been trying to find it, but don't know if it isn't out yet, or whether I just got caught in the New Year's video rush. Thanks.

re: Emma on video, I don't think so, Amy2. Surely someone would have said something about it? That stuff is never off topic here. Dont' ever worry about that.

http://www.tbvg.com/ scroll down to March or April you'll see The English Patient and Emma. "Whatever" is the most hated word of 1996 uh. I just read this on my news file. Whatever?. This is my favorite word. Whateverrrr.LOL.

They have t shirts at BookPeople that say Whatever

The Jeremy Northam EMMA is scheduled to be released on video in March.

Kathleen, LOL! The Jeremy Northam version, indeed. I wonder why they just didn't call it "Mr. Knightley" instead of "Emma." Jane

Jane, ''The Jeremy Northam version, indeed. I wonder why they just didn't call it 'Mr. Knightley' instead of 'Emma.' Or ''Darcy's Pride'' instead of P&P....

Just got a copy of my Critics' Choice video catalog and on the back cover is Emma, the A&E version, for only $14.77. Since I don't have cable tv, I was not aware that Emma2 has been broadcast already. I knew it was on the books somewhere, but...How is it that the tape is available so soon? How was it received by audiences in general, that is those without the discerning taste of present company? If anyone is interested, the number for Critics Choice video is:1-800-367-7765.

Critics Choice (1-800-367-7765) also has Valmont ($10.77), The Advocate ($14.77) Hostages ($14.95), and if you really want to watch the movie Firth has disowned: Playmaker ($14.95).

I beg you don't spend your hard earned money on the Playmaker, rent it. Mich

Thanks Mich,Valmont is my pick.

Genie EMMA is being broadcast on A&E here ( at least in California) on Feb.16th but has already aired on BBC in England. Maybe that's why the tape is already available. Donna, good choice. I loooove CF in VALMONT too.

Genie EMMA is being broadcast on A&E here ( at least in California) on Feb.16th Did someone not say that the video would not be shipped till 2/17?

Joan, I read that too. I just got the catalog and will try to order today. I'll post what happens.

According to the A&E Biography {new name was A&E Monthly} you may order now,but it won't be deliver until Feb.delivery.Allow 3 to 4 weeks delivery. For fast delivery,call 1-800-828-6565,for free catalog,Write: A&E Home Video,Box HV1,235 E. 45th Street,NY,NY 10017

Just saw the Paltrow EMMA yesterday & liked it very much. I can't say this version was particularly true to Austen -- in fact, it played more like Sheridan to my mind. But it was generally pleasant & not offensive. I thought Paltrow did very well for a young (not-Brit) actress.

' it was generally pleasant & not offensive' My opinion too, but isn't that damning with faint praise? It should have been so much more.

I am new to the conversation. I'm Gianine and live in Vermont. I haven't been able to see anything. So I buy the videos. The Emma in the Critic's Choice catalog is listed as a 1996 version. Is this the very latest version? How many versions are there. I know of an older one released in 1972. This 1996 version is not the one with Paltrow in it. I am confused can anyone straighten me out? Thankyou.

Hi Gianine. Welcome. If the 1996 tape is not the Paltrow version then it must be the ITV/A&E version, a 2-hour TV adaptation that will air next month on A&E. It carries the 96 date because it was broadcast in England in December. See Bernie's review: http://www.bluemarble.net/~amyloo/wwwboard/breeches.html

Thankyou. I have been ease-dropping on your conversations of PP2. I bought the set of videos for myself at Christmas. I have been a great fan of Jane Austen before all the latest hoopla and have been a member of the Jane Austen Society for quite sometime. I have been like a kid in a candy store with all these latest versions coming out. It is a pleasure to find a place where conversation can be had about PP2 and other Videos. My husband thinks I am being ridiculous. Of-course, he has never read any Jane Austen!!

Okay, Hilary and Amy2, I'll have to disagree with you on EMMA (surprise). I thought that mood created was very "Emma," but this may lie in my own personal interpretations of the novel. To me, the book is foremost an exploration of Emma's personality and growth. In this light, the elements of the film fit together rather well. Emma's character - that of a charming young woman who is at once infinitely wise and incredibly dense about relationships - and experience were crafted quite nicely, even if t e richness of the plot was sacrificed for time constraint reasons. The filmmakers were obviously straining to fit everything in. They even found room for Mrs. Elton's strawberry expedition, though the all-important group discussion scenes relating to that event got dissed. Mrs. Elton's need and desire to be the belle of Highbury (vs. Emma) and, particularly, the focus of male attention (for example, her desire to win the position as hostess at Donwell Abbey...), I thought, were perfectly illustrated in those scenes. The writers also axed another favorite scene - the o e in which Mr. Knightley observes Emma, Jane, Frank, and Harriet playing wordgames with the children's alphabets at Hartfield...it not only does Mr. Knightley's powers of intuition and observation credit, but it provides MAJOR clues that something's up with frank and Jane (a very clever idea on Austen's part). Perhaps it isn't a VITAL scene for keeping the action rolling along, but I missed it. I was also disappointed in the fact that some characters, like John and Isabella, became little more than inconsiquential shadows (most people who didn't know the story wouldn't even remember their names, if it weren't for Emma's "I love John/I hate John!" conversation with Mrs. Weston, and even then the people who put together the theatre trailer took these lines out of context, leading audiences to believe that "John" was George...). Still, I was pretty impressed by the filmakers' ability to fit in almost every important element, even only if gratuitously. Unless we want a six-hour version, some things have to go. I'm interested in seeing how the ITV version, which is even shorter, hits me.

THE HAIRCUT! THAT GUY REALLY NEEDED THE HAIRCUT!

Jane, are you referring to Mr. Churchill? I guess the thing that got me most about the Paltrow EMMA was the overall tone -- to me, it played more like SHE STOOPS TO CONQUER than Jane Austen. It seemed that the filmmakers went for very light, almost farcical humor rather than exploring the depth of Emma's transformation. I may be out of my element here because EMMA was never one of my favorite Austen novels -- maybe there's too much about her yentalike matchmaking that reminds me of my own family.

Amy2, Emma slides in and out of being a favorite of mine. I was enchanted on first reading. But I, too, found the Partlow version way too light, even though I am not one of those people who try to make JA too serious and heavy.

Amy2 & Amy (also?): I agree w/ your opinions about the McGrath (?) adaptation of Emma, although I grew to like the movie more and more each time I saw it (7 times so far). The novel has become my third favorite (after P&P and Persuasion), but not for a light tone. Emma's actions are not always for the best interest or happiness of the other parties, as she tells Harriet at the end of the movie, but because she thinks she knows better than anyone else how everything should turn out. The movie muddled some of the plot by leaving out many important scenes, but this is necessary in a short adaptation. After all, we feel cheated by not having all the scenes we want in P&P2, which comes in at 5 hours or more.

Oh, I loved the Paltrow Emma. I am always disappointed to find someone who disagrees. Emma was enchantingly light. Didn't the "very badly done, Emma...very bad" scene at least make you want to misbehave? Or what about the kiss? You have to admit that Mr. Knightly knows a thing or two about snogging.

SNORT, Elaine! ;) You guys, Emma is supposed to be funny! :::) Again, this is ONE INTERPRETATION of the novel. Any single film adaptation is never going to fulfill every reader's expectations, because every reader has a different opinion as to what the book is about. I agree that the Miramax version isn't perfect, but more because of time constraints than a lack of understanding. As far as the "depths of emma's transformation," I don't think that the novel is about anything as heavy as a moron metamorphosizing into a genius...it is about a sometimes silly, though intelligent, girl learning how to prioritize her life. Even in the novel, it takes a good bop on the head in the form of Harriet's plans for Mr. Knightley to snap her out of it for good. And as for Emma's growing appreciation for Mr. Knightley and what he stands for, I think that the Paltrow version does a great deal... n the ball scene and post-Box Hill at Hartfield when Mr. Knightley returns...(BTW, I didn't find Mr. Knightley's reproach at Box Hill at all light or enchanting...it made me want to cringe and cry just like Emma was doing...). The only "learning experience" part I really missed was Emma's unguarded speculation re: Jane and Dixon...perhaps Emma's eagerness to gossip about Jane's personal life, and her eventual embarrassment at learning the truth, should have been explored more...

Was anyone else as fascinated as I was about the differences in the dance scene at Netherfield vs the one in Emma which used the same music? I thought the one in Emma far more romantic and flowing in its presentation. The Netherfield dance was far more stiff and formal in style, even though the same arm movements, etc. were used.

Kali, its so long since I've talked to you in the chat room ........how are you? I basically agree with your interpretation of Emma. She is someone who through her immaturity loves to let her wonderful imagination get away from her, distracting her from seeing her impact on other people, and what is best for herself. I also agree that time was a major constraint for the film makers. But I was disappointed in much of the casting. I thought some scenes that were left out were crucial - like the spelling out scene. I don't think we easily saw Emma's development which is what its all about.`I agree its meant to be funny, but its not nearly as funny as it should be - look at how much about Mr. Woodhouse is left out. I think we shall just have to disagree...... Mary, I was fascinated with the 2 dance scenes too. They each suited the occasion - the Netherfield one was kind of a battle scene interpretation.

Oh, so you also thought that leaving out the alphabets scene was a "blunder"? ;) I hear ya, Hilary...and I miss you! I hope we hook up in chat soon... --- As for the dances...yeah...in Emma, they choreograph Mr. B's Maggot with such ballet-like movements that you hardly recognize the dance...way different takes on the same steps. Amazing. I prefer the Netherfield take, b/c it is more realistic.

I also preferred the Netherfield version of the Maggot. In Emmathe dancers were physically much closer. It seems they were touching each others' waists and Mr. Knightly was making such transparent overtures to Emma and not with just his eyes, even his legs were invading her territory. In P&P Darcy had only the touch of two hands to work with and those amazing eyes. However, once Elizabeth begins to talk this mesmerizing dance does become a delicious battlefield. Imagine how difficult this scen must have been to film, dealing with both the steps and the range of emotions conveyed by the actors. In contrast, the Emma scene should have been a piece of cake.

I have only been able to see Emma once. I don't think it was apiece of cake,it just seemed that it was a faster dance and the P&P2 version was much more intense.The reason for the dances are quite different. This is what how I remember it.In Emma it was to show us (Emma) that Mr. Knightly would dance with Miss Smith and that he is a thoughtful person and gentlemen. In P&P2 is was to show us the sparing between Elizabeth and Darcy.How intense he was to dance with her and so many other reasons. Emma was "l ght and funny" and P&P2 "proper and elegant". I do like both versions equally. It was a nice feeling to hear MrB. and some of the smae steps in Emma. It aslo promoted P&P2. People(in the theater) in general noticed it right away and (I overheard conversations) were delighted to hear and see familar music and steps again.I also got an idea how many people watched P&P2. Two ladies conversing "Oh that was in Pride and Prejudice". No, I didn't. You'll have to "borrow my tape".LOL!

Kali, you obviously feel strongly about the Paltrow version of EMMA - I by no means thought it was an abject waste of time like DIE HARD XVI. Even though there are a few scattered attempts at dramatic scenes, such as Knightly's upbraid of Emma at the picnic, I still contend that the overall _tone_ of the film was extremely light. The whole thing almost played like drawing room farce to me: Mr. Elton practically knocking Emma down as he taps on her shoulder; the "try not to kill my dogs" interpolation; rs. Elton directly addressing the audience at the end, etc. P&P could also be played for the sheer wit of Elizabeth's ripostes, but then we would lose the rest of the story. I fear this was true with EMMA.

Okay, Amy2, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I must repeat, however, that EMMA is a much lighter story than P&P, after all, and had this been a six-hour version, I think, it would have necessarily included enough elements so as to become more satisfactory to everyone.

How long is the new A&E version? Does anybody know? Kali, if you come to Hollywood, I will have to make you take a meeting with Peter Guber as vengeance. That would be worse than spending the afternoon with Mr. Collins!

The ITV version is only two hours too.

According to Critics Choice Video, Emma2 is only 100 minutes long. I just looked at the TV and saw Anne Eliot (Amanda Root)! She's on Mystery in the PD JAmes story "Original Sin".

Yeah, Ann, and it's great! I can't wait to see the conclusion of OS tonite! --- Amy2, I live in Stockton and go to school in Berkeley, so I may roadtrip down to take you up on that offer (just to find out who Peter Guber is)...;)

Due to a slow response time on my part I only saw Emma2 (Paltrow/Northam) for the first time last week. Considered as an entertainment in it's own right, without reference to JA or authenticity, I like it very well indeed. However, like Amy2, I think that on the whole it is too light. I find Emma (text) much less light-hearted than P&P; to me P&P has an air of the fairy-tale whilst Emma is far more realistic and darker. We might have to disagree on that point, but there were some things in Emma2 I thought very well done; JN, whilst personally delicious doesn't really fit my idea of Knightley for most of the film, but I thought his return from London and the proposal very well done. I actually liked to acceptance written for Emma here better than that for Lizzy in P&P2; Lizzy's acceptance didn't quite ring true for me. The actress playing Jane Fairfax didn't seem quite right to me, but I only just worked out why; she's too beautiful, even for Jane Fairfax, too exotic,and not really elegant. To me she doesn't look like an english woman of the period at all (note the comment in the making of P&P2 about some actors looking too 'modern'). Emma2 also had an overall different look to both P&P2 and S&S; richer more cluttered rooms, which I suspect is more authentic (at least the clutter). did anyone else notice the quote re colour in Emma on AustenL recently? How they stuck with the style of the regency, but went for colours they thought would appeal to a modern audience? eg red and green at Christmas, bilious green for Emma's dress when she first meets Mrs Elton. As I am both obsessional and literal this takes the film further from the book for me, but considered in isolation give an interesting touch to the movie; I intend seeing it again, and will pay more attention to the use of colour.

Kali, come down to L.A. and we will take that trip to Peter! (or at least to Sony Pictures). Anna: I agree with you in that I think Austen's work became more serious in tone as she herself aged. Hence the light-hearted wit of P&P as contrasted with the sense of loss in PERSUASION. I was also wondering about the actress who played Jane Fairfax -- was she even _English_? I thought she was quite exotic as well. The thing that bugged me the most about Emma is the filmmaker's willingness to let her be the butt of so many jokes -- we _know_ she's misguided, but that doesn't make her a buffoon. Ther were parts of this that were a little too similar to CLUELESS for me!

Amy2, The actress playing Jane Fairfax, Polly something, I think is English, and is perfect for the role she plays in Enchanted April, a very beautiful and languid upper-upper crust flapper (unless I'm confused about the era). She's also in Restoration, which I haven't seen. They didn't make much use of her in Emma. Jane

Jane -- re Polly (Walker?), the actress who played Jane Fairfax in Emma2: she was indeed perfect in Enchanted April (a truly beautiful movie), but seemed too old in Emma2. Perhaps if she had been in more scenes, or had more lines, we could have sympathized w/ her more. Toni Collette, who played Harriet Smith in Emma2, was also too old (and perhaps too large compared to Gwyneth Paltrow). But we did get to "know" her Harriet better and, therefore, sympathize more. Anna -- I grew to like this movie more each time I saw it. I hope you have the same increase in enjoyment.

Yes...it is Polly Walker, and she is English. --- Amy2 (BTW, thanks for your invite...I'm there!), I don't think Emma was made to look like a buffoon...merely the silly little girl she sometimes is. In the novel, as well, Austen treats Emma as such. Emma is in so many ways a child; allowed to construct views on life without the added benefit of an alert and involved father. Everyone but Mr. Knightley seems to think that she's perfect, and so she goes about her life (and the lives of others) as if her view is the best view (or perhaps ONLY view). When the reality of a situation catches up with her, she either completely misses the point or gets so smacked by it that she's in a state of shock. It would be sad indeed if Emma never got the point...but she does, to our satisfaction and amused relief. The completeness of both her delusion and epiphany is hyperbolic, which entitles us to some heightened impatience, and, I think, greater amusement at her stupidity. Just because Emma is one of the "mature" novels, it need not follow that we consider the story and it's themes with utmost gravity. I contend that Austen is of the "slice of life" school (Mansfield Park and Persuasion, perhaps, are most infused with what comes close to "moral lessons"), in which the characters teach us, but need not be vehicles of anything much larger than themselves as specimens of human nature. Emma, as a novel and as a character, "teaches" us about personal growth and aw reness, but it is not a sledgehammer. Juxtaposed with the poor and sick she tends, Emma has no problems other than those she creates for herself. The greatest potential for tragedy in this novel lies in the possiblity that Emma will never grow up. While the real-life implications of her meddling are very real, it is rather clear to me that those whom her actions might affect (Harriet and Miss Bates, for example, and Frank and Jane through her willingness to gossip with Frank), are quite resilient enoug to withstand Emma's immaturity. In fact, I think the Miramax Emma makes more of the consequences Emma's actions than the novel in several instances, most notably of Emma's Box Hill stab at Miss Bates. "Maturity" in writing (both tone and content)need not equal greater moralization or greater distinction of "lessons" at the expense of humor. I agree that the tone of Emma shows a greater understanding and sharper analysis of the human condition, but I contend that it doesn't dampen the humor of the situation. It is poignantly ironic, and humorous, that Emma "knows" everything about everyone except herself. In this instance, Austen's greater understanding takes us beyond the class issue of P&P, the tragedy of misprioritization in MP, and pain of loss in Persuasion, into the study of problems where the romance of politics and sociology dictate there should be no problems. In Emma, Austen penetrates a tranquil and priviledged little world to pick apart the personality of a girl who should be none of us, but in a very real way represents all of us in her faults. Emma reminds us that it pays to engage in reality checks every once in a while, and that it is never too late to t y to learn from one's mistakes. --- Anna, I saw that post on breaking the rules of color, etc., in AUSTEN-L, and I thought it very interesting. I like the idea of tweaking historical realism here and there (but not too much!) to bring something to life in modern eyes. Isn't the exaggeration of reality what gives art its expressive quality?

PS - It's obvious we're getting nowhere on this subject. You all think I'm crazy, and are, I'm sure, ready to lock me up in Bertha Mason's attic! ;)

PS - It's obvious we're getting nowhere on this subject. You all think I'm crazy, and are, I'm sure, ready to lock me up in Bertha Mason's attic! ;) Nonsense, Kali. I am quite of your opinion, as you know. I feel that Emma is the most complete of JA's heroines. This is due, not to the serious tone of the novel, but to the wonderful way Emma's shortcomings allow us to understand her character. On the other hand, I'm sure Mr. Rochester would be delighted to find you in the attic one day instead of Bertha! Poor Jane wouldn't stand a chance.

] You all think I'm crazy, and are, I'm sure, ready to lock me up in Bertha Mason's attic! ;) Never that Kali ;-) What a dull place the world would be if we all thought the same way on every topic!

Thank you, dearest Myretta and loveliest Anna... And Anna, the world would indeed be dull if everyone agreed on everything! ;)

I enjoyed your commentary Kali. Elaine was obviously speechless after reading it ...

Thanks, Mary...

Kali, I had prepared a very elaborate reply, then my modem lost its connection. Drat! I will try to reconstruct: It's my distinct impression that Austen's work grew in depth, and perhaps in disappointment, as she got older. I don't think you can compare the almost giddy, youthful humor of Northanger Abbey to the very real sense of loss in Persuasion. To me, Emma kind of falls midway in her canon as far as seriousness of tone, probably weighting more to the "fun" side. I also have to say that I don't think Austen's aim was really to show us that "little bit of ivory" she claimed as her palette. Even though she was dealing with the parochial (young English women of good standing) her characters, morality, and themes are so universal that they've stood the test of 200 years. Rather than just presenting Miss Woodhouse to the world & pointing out her particular folley, it seems to me that JA is drawing broader moral implications that might rival even Mary Anne Evans (nee George Eliot). This is just one writer's opinion. Don't hurt me!

]This is just one writer's opinion. Don't hurt me! Gee, Kali. What a reputation! ;-)

No kidding, Myretta. I won't hurt you...and I didn't mean to imply that Jane Austen doesn't draw any moral implications. She does, as does any writer. However, Jane Austen does NOT present us with moral propaganda, nor does she draw incredibly heavy moral distinctions b/t the "bad," the "good," and the "proper" and the "wrong." This is ground we've covered in the irony and morality thread, Amy2. My contention remains that Emma presents a "life's lesson" kind of experience through clear eaded humor and astute analysis of a personality. Emma's brain is not an allegory for spiritual revolution. She's a kid who needs to grow up, and finally does. Who can't identify with that?

I don't want to reprise the Irony & Morality thread here, but I _do_ think that Austen was a moral propagandist. She is very clear in P&P, for example, that Lady Catherine's (and Darcy's initial) equation that gentility = wealth + position is wrong; I also think she placed a high value on the proper sort of "understanding," "sense," that her various characters possessed to varying degrees. Even at the very end of P&P, she's trying to put a proper moral spin on the role Lady C. ultimately played in unitin Lizzy & Darcy. EMMA is what it is on the surface, and I think we can all agree to that; however, I also think Austen is pretty clearly trying to tell us "don't be a yenta!" Don't meddle in other people's affairs of the heart -- let them fall in love on their own. Now despise me if you dare!

I am probably reading too much into Emma, but the very first time I read it, it had lessons for me that go beyond "growing up" an "dont' help e e ,,

let me try that again. ...beyond "growing up" and "don't meddle." Like so many of Austen's stories, it's about self delusion, which is broader than growing up or don't meddle. Kali and I and some others were talking about this -- again -- in chat, and we all agreed that JA must have done a great deal of thinkt deluding oneself. We wondered if all this pondering served to break her free of the curse of delusion.

That is certainly another very important thread in the book, Amy. I also think Austen was a great believer in romantic self-determination; a.k.a., only YOU could make a considered decision as to the person you were to marry. Every time someone else tries to interfere (Darcy with Bingly; Mrs. B. with Mr. Collins; Lady C., etc.) the results are either comical or disastrous.

Amy2, re romantic self-determination &tc. See I think that, too, belongs under the heading of "don't kid yourself; know what you want, making the self-delusion theme, well, more a theme than a thread. But perhaps this is nitpicking.

I also see the theme of self-delusion in Emma, and would also apply it from the perspective of Knightley. It wasn't until Frank Churchill came around and stirred things up that Knightley faced up to his own great love for Emma, and that he needed to be more than a brother to her. Then there is Mr Woodhouse: not the slightest crack in his self-delusion, and who would want to be him?

One of the differences between the idea of "growing in knowledge of self" as shown in Emma vs how it is shown in P&P is that Elizabeth doesn't try to "write" other people's stories (i.e., she doesn't try to run their lives) the way Emma does with Harriet. Elizabeth is amused by other people, and she enjoys her life, but her potential for doing harm to others is less than Emma's, IMO. Emma could have messed up Harriet's chance for happiness; she is mean to Jane Fairfax (the Mr Dixon idea is hers before Frank ever comes to Highbury); and she insults Miss Bates in a very unkind public manner. I love both of these novels; in fact, I think Emma the more accomplished work of art. I feel that Emma is in greater need of self-knowledge/maturity, than Elizabeth Bennet, however, even though they are about the same age.

I would say that self-delusion is a thread, self-awareness being a general theme. However, considering the fact that I DON'T consider Austen a moral propagandist (life as she writes it is more complex than a bundle of moral lessons!), I cannot say that the book is more about self-awareness than it is personal growth in general. Emma is not only deluded - she is careless and sometimes thoughtless and insensitive (gossiping with Frank, her comment to Miss Bates, failing to understand the potentia consequences of her actions), because she does not truly understand the bases of human interation nor the complexity of other people's lives and needs. Overcoming these particular aspects of her character allow her to better understand the workings of society, other people, and herself, as a fully-cognizant human being. She gains: 1) A greater appreciation for Mr. Knightley (both as a potential mate and as a mature, adult friend); 2) the realization that the truth of a matter (Jane and Dixon, Harriet and Elton, etc.) is not always perfectly evident; 3) that she can't know or fully comprehend every situation at age 21; and 4) the understanding that she can't go on living vicariously through the relationships of her friends, as that tendency is unfulfilling and often futile. She needs to get her own life (who doesn't ). She can't be her daddy's little girl forever, which brings up the fact that she could end up like Miss Bates, cocooning herself in self-congratulation for her "help" to others, as Miss Bates shields herself from the chill of the reality of her situation through incessant yammering. Emma can't understand her place in society - nor can she prioritize her life based on the options such an understanding presents - until she understands how it functions. She MUST understand that other people are more complex than she often gives them credit for. --- Amy, I think awareness of others and one's proper relationships to them, which in turn spurs an awareness of self, is crucial to the maturing process. People can't be happy - or at least satisfied that they have exhausted all of their options - until they understand the realities of life. I think that's why Austen wrote this book.

Kali, you will try to twist this into a growing up book.