Competing with my Paleontology or Fossils Topics, or are we talking Live Dinosaurs???! *hugs* it is good to have you busy again in here *smile*

Actually, I wanted to use this topic to supplement yours and thought we could link the two up. Want to use this to explore the dinosaur age and whether or not the world is as old as "they" say it is. And to discuss theories as to what killed them off. A huge virus, meteor, what.....

OK, I'll add this to my request for linkup between Collecting rocks and Geo...

Cfadm may have to create a new Paleo topic in Geo since this one is written in and there in one post in my Paleo...which is easily dispensed with as it was not important. I think this is an exciting prospect. I have loved dinosaurs since I was very little and taken to the American Museum of Natural History in New York City. I still have my books about dinosaurs from when I was a kid!

Dinos are so cool!! Apparently new evidence shows that the T-REX lived in colonies. Don't you find that SCARY?? Imagine such mean animals in a pack! But apparently they weren't very nice to each other, and always picked on the smaller T-REX.

They were the ultimate killing machine of the Jurassic, and they helped evolution out a lot by getting rid of the lame, stupid and slow so they did not pass those genes on to their offspring. Whatever happened to Natural Selection?! I think we need to have it back...

We do. That's why bad people get away with being bad so often...

I'm afraid you are right...It seems as though they are propagating faster than the good folks of the world, as well.

Of course. Survival by means of depleting other people's means.

As soon as there were two people on the Earth, there was the problem of depleting the other person's means...if for nothing else than to eliminate the competition. Seems we were at it from the very beginning. It is amazing that we survive as well as we do! We are now linked to Geo. Happy thought, Indeed...so now we can legitimately discuss gastroliths and coprolites *grin*

You mean farting and burping?

They've found a completely intact mammouth and are planning on cloing the dna and inseminating an African elephant with it (I may have the details garbled, I heard it on the car radio a few days ago), but the gist is that mammouths will walk the earth again. Jurrasic Park is real.

You're late!

Terry, I think we discussed this on SpringArk 30 / Genetics:Animal Kingdom. I am really excited for them to do this and I hope they are successful. Not quite the Jurassic period, but far enough back that it piques our interest and imagination.

(Ri�tte)You mean farting and burping? If we are talking coprolites, it is long past the flaming point and into fossilization (wouldn't that make a nifty engagement ring stone?!), as for Gastroliths...yup! But belching stones is not a pleasant thing to contemplate. Bouncing around in your gut at that size could be the cause of more than gastric distress! It might knock two stones together, cause a spark and ignite the whole Dinosaur. BOOOOOOOOOM!!!!

I wish these intersecting topics would show as "read" in all the conferences once they are read in one of them. Can this not be done, Marcia, Terry?

When I enter a conference I do it like this: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/Geo/all/new after I have accessed them and I go to SpringArk or Collecting (to which Geo is linked - as well as News and Parents - I do the same using browse/all/new. The ones already read should not appear again on the other place since you have accessed it.

Well, so much for that. It did not work this time... Since each conference is independent one of the other it might be impossible to do what Gi requests.

i've wondered the same thing myself!

I have done some looking at yapp capabilities, and this seems to be too convoluted for it to handle.

Well, then, never mind! Some genius may think of that, though, the next time they write such a program :-)

I think it just might take an exasperated non-expert to write such a program. I have been thinking about it, but am far from the stage of making useful suggestions - so I keep plugging at it, and another program which would keep posts on private boards from general display...!

And, here I sit in telnet (actually double telnet) and am still coming up empty

I wonder if I Forget it in one conference will it be Forgotten in the other? Will try it. But then the object is defeated, which was to link to it from either conference.

Hmmm....I think it is conference specific, but not sure. Please report your findings on this matter!

I Forgot it on SpringArk but it still showed up in Geo.

Thank you! I was wondering, but since I am host on both of those conferences I did not think it would be a fair test.

And it is still forgotten in SpringArk. So now we know :-)

Aha again! Good to know these things. Thanks, again *hugs*

Mammoth Stuck Outside New Museum NORMAN, Okla. (Reuters) - A life-size bronze sculpture of an Ice Age mammoth is proving to be a mammoth headache for the University of Oklahoma, which has been unable to fit the beast through the doors of the country's newest natural history museum, officials said on Thursday. When the massive bronze, whose 12-foot (3.6-metre) tusks make up more than half its 23-foot (6.9-metre) length, arrived on Wednesday, workers discovered the head was eight inches (20 cm) too high to fit upright through the loading doors of the Sam Noble Oklahoma Natural History Museum. The new University of Oklahoma museum is a large state-of-the-art facility built to showcase a university collection that has spent decades scattered in buildings across campus and in dilapidated storage sites. It is due to open on May 1. ``It's going to be a big pain and a lot of guys are going to be working on it,'' museum spokeswoman Linda Coldwell said. ''But we will get it in.'' She said a large crane would be brought to the site and the sculpture would be turned on its side to fit through the door, ''like you'd bring a sofa into your living room, around the door frame.'' The sculpture is of an Imperial Mammoth, a species that lived more than 10,000 years ago. The bronze weighs 5,000 pounds (2,250 kg). It will be mounted in a display called the ``Pleistocene Plaza'' alongside bronze sculptures of an early Native American family encountering the beast, a scene which could have easily occurred on the site of the new museum around 12,000 years ago, Coldwell said. The sculpture, by Nebraska artist Fred Hoppe, is based on the bones of a mammoth found in the fossil beds of Lincoln County, Nebraska, in 1922.

Internet Auction Flogs T-Rex Bones for $5.8 Million SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - In a monster sale on the Internet, online auctioneers on Monday put a fossilized Tyrannosaurus Rex skeleton on the block with the opening bid set at $5.8 million. The fossil dubbed ``Mr. Z-Rex'' and boasting the largest male skull with the longest teeth of any T. Rex ever discovered is being jointly offered by online auction sites run by Lycos Inc. (LCOS.O) and Millionaire.com. ``The fossil is absolutely breathtaking,'' its discoverer, paleontologist Alan Detrich, said in a statement. ``This truly is the King of T-Rex's.'' The fossil was estimated to bring in between $10 million and $12 million, according to the auctioneers. A 1997 Sotheby's auction for ``Sue,'' a female T. Rex dubbed ``The Queen of T. Rex's,'' fetched $8.36 million, the highest price ever paid for dinosaur fossils. That purchase was made by a group led by Walt Disney Co. Chief Executive Michael Eisner on behalf of the Chicago Field Museum of Natural History. ``Mr. Z. Rex'' was discovered on Oct. 6, 1992 by Alan and Robert Detrich on a private cattle ranch in northwestern South Dakota. It is currently co-owned by Detrich Fossils and Fred J. Nuss Fossils, both Kansas-based paleontological groups. This is not the first time the massive fossil has been put up for sale over the Internet. In July 1999, Detrich Fossils offered the item over another online auction site, but the sale was scrapped after phony bidders put in too many illegitimate offers. The new sale will be limited to pre-qualified buyers, which could include natural history museums seeking to add the T-Rex to their attractions, company officials said. Appraisers have estimated that a T-Rex exhibit can boost museum revenues by as much as $40 million a year. ``When a significant boost in ticket sales is combined with revenue from souvenirs, casts of giant teeth, etc., the revenue from a T. Rex display could total millions of dollars per year, quickly earning back the original cost of the fossils,'' the companies' statement said. The auction, which closes on Feb. 10, is visible at www.auctions.lycos.com and www.millionaire.com.

that's absurd! is it a hoax?

Nope. Complete T-Rex skelatons are so rare that this is up for the highest price it can fetch. There is world-wide interest in this guy without any meat on his bones and probably not gastroliths or coprolites, either.

*wow*

Actually, if I am remembering correctly, this is the Only complete T-Rex skelaton ever found let alone successfully excavated. Btw, it is a female!

Was it "Sue"? Then, again, I think that that Sue was the largest T-Rex, though not complete...missed the exhibition - rats!

No name that I remember seeing. I guess that honor goes to the person or institution willing to shell out $5+ million for the privilege of taking her home. But, I have not gone to the websites holding the auction...have been busy posting about the eclipse instead. I have seen the one in the American Museum of Natural History which is by far the largest of the ones currently on exhibit in major museums. I was disappointed by the small size of the British Museum of Natural History's specimen. But, a T- ex is impressive in any condition...I would jump at the chance to see another specimen.

see, i don't understand why it's on the auction block. i thought those things were taken to museums not purchased. been to the natural history museum in d.c. and that thing was huge (the dinosaur, ok, the museum was too)

There is no law in this country that I am aware of which deals with "treasure" found on land not owned by anyone (is there such thing anymore?!). In Britain the discoverer can take possession and sell it to the highest bidder if it is lost property...anything dropped on the ground or lost by the owner. Finders Keepers. If it is buried or placed somewhere where the owner could reasonable be considered to return to use it, then it is in the custody of the state and as such it goes to the British Museum. e are a prickly bunch when it comes to the government taking things we discover in the wilderness - like Gold or dinosaur bones...!

I am all for things as unique as dinosaur bones or meteroites belonging to the nation and being kept in a museum for all to see. But, where do you draw the line??? It is almost a no-win situation!

wait, i didn't know the museums were govt run. i knew they got money, but the pieces were property of the museum and the general public, not the gov't. maybe i need to move to a smaller scale. finding an arrowhead is no big deal but finding a whole dinasour is just infathomable to me. can you imagine? my finding this thing in my backyard (of course, if i did, wouldn't that make headlines) and then what do i do with it? i dunno. just a question, not trying to start a fight! speaking of things we find in the wilderness, there are laws regarding the taking of certain feathers found lying about. the only "civilian" people allowed to take them are indians and then for ceremonial purposes. (of course, bird feathers are covered in mites and junk, so clean it really well!)

You will never get me to fight with you, Wolfie! *Hugs* is more like it =) I am just stating what exists in the world of archaeology...like the Dead Sea Scrolls and other things of that magnitude which should belong to all mankind. Most museums are run by a board of directors and get endowments from many sources. The Smithsonian is that way, but is also the Nation's repository of historically significant things. Most finds of the American Museum were by people hired to go out and find. Margaret Meade was on their payrole as was the man who did all of the dinosaur finds in Mongolia. Therefore his things belong to the museum. Other things, like the Hope Diamond were either sold or donated to the museum by their owners/discoverers I think all finds should be first the nation's and second the finder's...but this is the fight Mel Fisher is fighting over his gold salvage finds in the sea.

if i found something significant, depending on what it was as to whether i'd want to keep it, i'd definitely want credit for unearthing the thing. perhaps the idea behind musuems and such is to preserve it for mankind and to take ownership away. i don't know. i thought archeology was for everyone's benefit. i guess there's the "pirate's treasure" deal going on for folks. to me, that's just greed. but i'd sure be tempted to keep it, am only human (thank goodness) just hate how things get exploited for t e sake of the almighty dollar. who's got $5M to lay out for some dinosaur bones anyway? what are they gonna do with it? put it in the foyer of their castle and hang christmas lights off of it? it belongs in a museum or such place so people can take a gander and see it to know that it's real IMMHO. i'd love to see it and touch the bones and know that this thing used to be alive. i'd love to pet the mammoth and feel the texture of it's fur and know that that thing, too, was alive.

I agree! Put most eloquently, Wolfie...you expressed the frustration we all feel who care about these things. I am afraid the altruism which once was the rule in the world is long gone. It is now, "What's in it for me?" and getting worse by the moment!

Found this interesting article which addresses some of our worst fears: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 Fossil may be biggest T-rex ever Last modified at 1:36 a.m. on Wednesday, September 17, 1997 HELENA, Mont. (AP) -- What may be the largest Tyrannosaurus rex fossil ever found has been unearthed on a Montana cattle ranch, touching off a dispute over who has claim to the site. University of Notre Dame paleontologist Keith Rigby said identification of the fossil is not yet complete, but if it is not a T-rex it may be a completely new variety of dinosaur -- and the largest meat-eater ever found. "There is some possibility that it may be new, and T-rex may have to become 'T-who?"' Rigby said Tuesday. Rigby said he found a pubis bone, one of three bones in the pelvis, that measures at least 52 inches, compared with 48 inches in the largest T-Rex fossil ever measured. However, the femurs, or thigh bones, which paleontologists normally use to estimate the size of dinosaurs, are still unexcavated. The find is "exciting, but not earth-shattering," said J. Michael Parrish, a dinosaur expert at Southern Illinois University. He said only a couple of dozen T-rex specimens are known and the largest size keeps changing, but that Rigby is probably right that his would be the biggest T-rex known. Parrish said other carnivores found recently in South America and Africa are thought to be larger than a T-rex, but comparisons among species are difficult. Rigby said he was forced to reveal the find before the fossil could be confirmed because of an unauthorized excavation over the weekend, which prompted federal agents to intervene to keep bones from being taken away. James Rector, a lawyer who has been helping Rigby, said he saw two sons of the former landowner and other relatives using a tractor to dig at the site on Sunday. Rector said he alerted the FBI and the federal Farm Service Agency, which owns the land. No one was arrested, but the FBI is investigating. Rector said he asked Steve Walton, a son of former landowner Edmund Walton, what he intended to do with the bones and the man replied: "I'm going to save my farm and feed my children." T-rex fossils can be extremely valuable. A 50-foot fossil nicknamed Sue, which was found in South Dakota in 1990, is expected to bring more than $1 million when it is auctioned next month at Sotheby's in New York. Rigby said he began work at the Montana site more than a year ago with permission of people who claimed to own the land, but he later became suspicious. He said he did a title search and found that FSA took ownership of the land several years ago. Two men who identified themselves to The Associated Press in separate calls as Steve Walton and his cousin, Fred Walton, said Tuesday the group did not take anything from the site and were there merely out of curiosity. Both said ownership of the land is still in dispute and they might be entitled to some money from the dinosaur find. A similar fight was waged over Sue, one of the most complete T-Rex fossils ever found. It was seized by the government in 1992 from Peter L. Larsen, the fossil dealer who excavated it. The government said the land where Sue was found was under federal jurisdiction and off-limits to Larsen. Sotheby's is selling the fossil on behalf of the Sioux Indian on whose ranch Sue was found.

The T-Rex Fossil The fossil, currently owned by Detrich fossils, a Kansas-based paleontological group, contains the most perfect skull and largest teeth (some measuring 13 inches) ever discovered. The fossil is nicknamed Mr. Z-Rex in honor of the owners of the private property where the fossil was discovered. Bids for the T-Rex are beginning at $5.8 million. Appraisers believe a T-Rex fossil of this quality can bring an additional $40 million in permanent, annual revenue to the museum that acquires it. Mr. Z-Rex was discovered on October 6, 1992 by paleontologists Alan & Robert Detrich while exploring fossil deposits on a private cattle ranch in northwestern South Dakota. The skull was found in a sand formation. It is thought that the T-Rex died on the sandy shoreline of a prehistoric river, sea or lake. Mr. Z-Rex has the best skull with the largest teeth I have seen. The fossil is absolutely breath-taking. This truly is the King of T-Rex's - a paleontologist's dream come true. -Alan Deitrich -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The specimen was excavated according to professional standards and transported without damage. Skeletal elements have been exposed by partial preparation from the original undersurface of three major blocks. These blocks contain, respectively, the skull, the presacral vertebrae, and elements of the hind limbs and anterior portion of the tail. Great care was taken to collect all fragments of bone from from the locality, which may permit the reassemblage of several bones which would otherwise have been lost. Stabilization of the skeletal parts will present no unusual problems, and the extraction of the bones from the sediment in which they are preserved will vary from relatively easy to requiring considerable skill. Details Length of skull 1370 mm Length of tooth row, left maxilla 560 mm (approximately) Length of tooth row, left dentary 530 mm Length of articulated cervicals from the anterior zygapophysis of C4 to the posterior zygapophysis of C10 985 mm Length of dorsal 4-6 taken at base of transverse processes 393 mm Length of posterior dorsal vertebra 140 mm Height of posterior dorsal vertebra 653 mm Length of 13 articulated caudal vertebrae 2780 mm Length of centra of two isolated caudals 152 and 132 mm Length of femur 1330 mm Circumference of femur 588 mm (indicating a weight of 5.5 metric tonnes) Length of fibula 965 mm (approximately) Length of metatarsal II 620 mm Length of metatarsal III 750 mm Length of metatarsal IV 640, 655 mm Length of phalanx r-1 120 mm The total length of the reconstructed skeleton is estimated to be approximately 10.8 m (35 feet). The total reconstructed height at the hips is estimated to be approximately 3.45 m (11.35 feet).

I wonder if this will affect the price of the one being auctioned now: BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) � Scientists working in the remote Patagonia region of Argentina say they have discovered partial remains of what may be the largest dinosaur species on record. Carlos Munoz, director of the Florentino Ameghino Museum of Natural Sciences, said Thursday a team of paleontologists unearthed the bones of a huge plant-eating dinosaur thought to have roamed Earth some 105 million years ago. The dinosaur is believed to have stretched between 157 and 167 feet from head to tail and weighed more than 10 tons. The creature is said to have been 27 feet longer than the 100-ton Argentinosaurus, considered by some experts to be the largest dinosaur ever recorded. The new dinosaur, which had a small head and a lengthy tail, has yet to be named or classified, Munoz said. Munoz said scientists working on a tip from a villager found a femur and two parts of a vertebra. The pieces of cervical vertebrae were nearly four feet high, he said. ``This is a spectacular find,'' said Munoz, whose team of nine students is still working in the remote area near the city of Neuquen, 640 miles southwest of Buenos Aires. Munoz said his team would continue to dig until the end of the month before returning to the museum to clean and classify what they uncovered. The scientists plan to officially release their findings in March in an Argentine paleontology magazine. John McIntosh, a dinosaur expert at Wesleyan University in Middletown, Conn., said in a telephone interview that if the new creature truly did reach 167 feet in length, ``it certainly would be the largest dinosaur yet recorded.'' But paleontologists say there are different ways of measuring the biggest dinosaur, which might add some controversy to the Patagonia discovery. Though possible shorter, the 100-ton Argentinosaurus would have been as much as 10 times heavier than the new dinosaur, according to scientists' estimates. And in November, researchers at the University of Oklahoma reported the discovery of a 60-ton, 60-foot tall giraffe-like creature that lived 100 million years ago along an ancient seacoast in what is now the south-central United States. Those measurements would give that dinosaur, called Sauroposeidon, the greatest height and longest neck � 40 feet � of any recorded species, researcher Richard Cifelli said.

i heard about that one on the news and for some reason thought this and the one up for auction were the same. guess i was wrong! a 40 ft long neck?

You don't want to imagine a sore throat... Annette...Response 45 is about Sue. I Finally found the female. T-Rexes are very confusing. They all look alike...

LOL, the female of the species is the largest (T-Rexes, guys! :-) )...but, it seems there might could have been different sizes within the species, male and female. I am digging desperately for an article that I cut out of our local newspaper, last year, re: the unearthing of a specimen which appeared to be T-Rex, at first, but, the head resembled that of a crocodile! I think that the dig took place in or around the Gobi desert. This species was thought to have actually used it long jaws to pluck fish and other small animals out of the rivers, similar to herons, and other water bir s...birds...?? (*wink!) Does anyone remember reading about that or seeing anything regarding it?

http://jurassic.unicity.com/ Good Luck! ;)

I have no memory off-hand regarding the incredible crocodile-headed dino, but I would not be surprised. The Gobi Desert is where most of the American Museum's fossils came from including that gigantic T-Rex I remember from childhood. Once upon a time it must have been one enormous swamp teaming with animals I do not ever wish to meet tooth-to-tooth. Thanks for the URL...

Has anyone tried the game, yet? (the URL that I listed above...) I am not much of a gamer, which probably explains why I keep getting eaten by the Velociraptor...! Seems I can't make it to the next level...oh, well...maybe that is my fate, being lunch for the raptor, and all...;)

No..I don't dare. That is not my thing, and if I get going on it I could really mess up my latent Carpal-Tunnel problem. Typing for 16 hours a day is about all I can handle. Not much of a gamer, actually, but I'll bet there are some out there with kiddies who might like to try it. *lol* You must be very tasty!!!

ok, this may be old news (haha, a pun, get it?), today's paper has an article about finding a carnivorous dinosaur larger than t-rex, 45 ft bigger! can you imagine? the bones were found on the eastern slopes of the andes in south america.

I heard that on the radio yesterday and spent considerable amount of time chasing it down. Never did find out anything before we had to leave for Baseball. Thanks for posting at least that much. Oxymoron for sure about the old news. *grin*

ok, then here's the whole article from the shreveport times: Scientists have discovered the bones of what could be the largest meat-eating dinosaur ever to walk the Earth--a needle-nosed, razor-toothed beast that may have been more terrifying than even the Tyrannosaurus Rex. A team of researchers from Argentina and North America unearthed the fossilized bones of as many as six of the previously unknown species in Patagonia, a desert on the eastern slopes of the Andes in South America. The discovery of the predators' graveyard challenges the theory that the largest meat-eaters were loners. It also raises the possibility that they lived and hunted in packs--which would make them even more terrifying to their prey. "You always think of these things as being solitary--now we know they traveled in packs," said Philip Currie, one of two scientists to make the discovery. He works with the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Alberta, Canada. Currie said the newly discovered species lived about 100 million years ago, and was heavier and had slightly shorter legs than the T-rex, which roamed North America. It had a tail and short front legs that were basically useless. The dinosaur also was characterized by a long, narrow skull and a jaw shaped like scissors. That suggests it could have dissected its prey with an almost surgical precision, "where the Tyrannosaur had a nutcracker skull," Currie said. Researchers estimated the meat-eating giant was 45 feet longer, bigger than the reigning king of the carnivores, the 41-foot Gigantosaurus. The better-known T-rex was about 40 feet long. "I think it would look just as nasty, if not worse," Currie said. She said the animal is apparantly related to the Gigantosaurus, but it's a new species and genus. ----- maybe i can find something on line. all msn news shows is stuff about the sun.

Must have been difficult to have been such a huge beast with so many useless bits.

Post a picture or send it to me and I'll post it if you find one. I have to leave for the Softball games in a little while. Thanks for the article. Amazing!

Maybe it dined on siesmosaurus, one of the largest herbovorous dinosaur fossils ever found.

here is a rendition of the new beast, thanks to abcnews.com Courtesy of Robert F. Walters/Dinosaur Productions/AP Photo

Thanks wolfie. That critter is mostly head! An eating machine!

I wonder how those things managed to balance. I mean, it's got a huge head, it's arms are useless and it seems have such an akward spine. How could the spine hold all that weight? Amazing though, isn't it? Did you see that computer animated series about the dinosaurs? THat was GREAT!

Ree, that computer animated series WAS great. I hope they run it again! Speaking of such, on Discovery Channel this evening they are uncovering the Mammoth live from Siberia. Check your local schedules to see when it is on - it starts here at 6pm and re broadcasts at 9pm. It runs about 3 hours.

that mammoth show is on right now (7-9CST)....will catch the beginning again at 9CST (back to back showing)

Thanks for that, Wolfie. I'll catch it at 6pm HST ( which is 11pm Eastern)

not a problem! they've got it out of the ice right now and showing his fur. amazing!!

Wow! Can't wait!....Must be really neat!

yeah, the stuff they've found is amazing. but am not gonna let the cat outta the bag, you'll just have to wait!

*sigh* we are always the last to know...*sigh* *Grin*

actually, i figured you'd be watching this right now too.

"Walking with Dinosaurs" will premiere on the Discovery channel on Apr 16. be there!!

Remind me again and I will be there! It starts in 4 minutes so logging off for the eveing.. G'night, Wolfie! It was great again *hugs*

so didja like it? (i was unable to watch the second showing)

I really loved it. I was spellbound and all nervous that they would not get it out of the pit before winter set in again... Thanks for not giving away the ending. When it was over I was all elated and looked over at the house male and said how much I had liked it. He said it was boring. Back to the computer! This man is clueless...*sigh* I can't wait till they let us know what they did discover from tests and such.

the news just reported that monkey bones the size of a human thumb have been discovered in China. they say that this may change the way they look at how monkeys evolved and later humans (!!)....anyway, the bones are very very old (didn't catch how old they were)...

L O N D O N, March 15 � Scientists have discovered 45-million-year-old foot bones in China from an extinct primate that may fill in a missing branch of the evolutionary tree. Paleontologist Dan Gebo of Northern Illinois University said Wednesday the tree-dwelling, mouse-size animal, called Eosimias, could solve the hotly debated issue of the origins of higher primates � monkeys, apes and humans. �These fossils for the first time actually bridge that anatomical gap between the lower primates and the higher primates,� Gebo said in a telephone interview. Fossil Provides Crucial Link Contrary to expectations, the bones of Eosimias were found in Asia, not Africa, and they are older and tinier than scientists thought they would be. Until now only jaws and teeth of Eosimias had been found. �These fossils are much smaller than what other people had been thinking about in terms of the ancestral condition of higher primates,� said Gebo. On the evolutionary tree, the creatures are somewhere between prosimians such as lemurs and tarsiers, which leaped and clung to trees, and anthropoids such as monkeys, apes and humans, which walk on four or two limbs. �They are half prosimians and half anthropoids. They really do make that connection. Much of the debate in the field has been to figure out which of those early prosimian fossil primates gave rise to anthropoids,� he said. �We needed something that is 50-50 and that�s what we think Eosimias is.� Gebo and other scientists from the United States and China discovered the fossils in a limestone quarry 100 miles west of Shanghai and along the Yellow River, about 350 miles southeast of Beijing. The finding was reported in the science journal Nature. Complex Anatomical Features The lack of physical evidence led to doubts about whether Eosimias was a primate, and if it was, where it fit into the family tree. �The most interesting aspect of these new foot bones is that they represent a mosaic,� Gebo said. �They possess primitive lower-primate features as well as several advanced or higher-primate characteristics.� Scientists from the Carnegie Museum of Natural History in Pittsburgh, Northwestern University Medical School in Chicago and the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology & Paleoanthropology in Beijing contributed to the study. the above was from abcnews.com

Fascinating stuff - thanks for posting it, Wolfie! At least it will show which way one branch of primates went...!

maybe they're related to the marmosettes (sp?).....

or lemurs or other little primates witht he big starey eyes which l@@k so cute.

can you imagine how cute these guys must've been?

Incredible! I am smiling just thinking about them!

they have a terrible rendition of what the monkey might look like on msnews but i'm not gonna post it. the one on tv was cuter!

found a pic of the new monkey (that was on abc news):

can you imagine a primate this little?

i believe tamarins are the smallest primates existing today. they'll fit in your hand.

That is Teeny indeed! Looks like the plastic ones kids get. It is adorable. I guess tamarinds are the tiniest ones now. How enchanting! Thanks for posting the picture - I had not seen it!

here's an informative website on the golden tamarin, who, btw, is an endangered species. i'll copy this info over to our ape topic as well. http://www.si.edu/glt/facts.htm

Cute and furry little dickens, isn't he?!

Space Science News for March 21, 2000 Scientists have discovered molecular buckyballs containing extraterrestrial helium from the era of the dinosaurs. The find comes from the global Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary layer. FULL STORY at http://spacescience.com/headlines/y2000/ast21mar_1.htm Buckyballs from Outer Space

what in the heck is a buckyball?

Have you ever seen a geodesic dome on a sports arena or some such thing? Buckminster Fuller, an engineer/architect invented the structure and it has been since applied to all sorts of physics and chemistry. (I have a caller bugging my phone and I do not get them out here very often. Sorry if I sound rattled...I am!) I'll check it out on the web and post a picture!

Saying that about the geodesic dome, if you go to that URL I posted, you'll see the similarity. " Fullerenes -- better known as "buckyballs" -- are hollow, cage-like molecules made of carbon atoms. They are named in honor of Buckminster Fuller, designer of the geodesic dome that resembles the molecule. This image shows how extraterrestrial gases such as helium can be trapped inside the fullerene cage. One view shows a broken bond, or open "window," with an atom moving out through window. " http://spacescience.com/headlines/y2000/ast21mar_1.htm

This isn't exactly right here but since David attenborough is the dinosaur bloke I guess it fits. I've added an brit/US glossary at the end.Film director Lord Attenborough locks himself out of his car and flies into a panic because he has an important ceremony to attend. Luckily his brother David passes by, and the movie-maker is certain he�ll have a good suggestion to get him out of the scrape. �oh, darling, just in the nick of time! With all the horrible places you have had to visit, you must have learned a few survival tricks. Can you get me into my car?� �No problem, stand aside� says Sir David. Then he steps forward and begins rubbing his trouser leg up against the car door. Within a few seconds there is a click and the door is opened. �Darling David, you�ve done it! � declares the delighted Dickie. �But do tell me, were you taught the secret by some isolated tribesman?� �No, not really� said his smiling brother. �You were just lucky that I am wearing my khaki trousers�. (Key: Richard Attenborough � movie director; David Attenborough � naturalist and �walking with dinosaurs� etc. movie maker. Trousers = pants. Khaki � dullish green colour, pronounced �car key� in Brit English)

LOL....You had me going until I wondered about the Khaki trousers (we call'um trousers too, on occasion, and Khaki is a very popular color here now as is olive drab (probably what you call khaki!) Thanks for another chapter in the Attenborough saga.

Actually, more Americans might be curious about two men calling each other "darling"...!

Didn't you know - they're luvvies!!! IMHO all theatre people do it! ALL the time!

...and they call eachother by diminutive names...dickie...larry...ralphy (you might know of whom I speak if you are a certain age and all that...!

who me??

Ah, you did not read all of Olivier's books then?!