What did you want to talk about Theresa?

R&B: Now that's great music! Also, all those people who bad-mouth '70s music obviously know very little about R&B: The Chi-Lites, the Stylistics, the Delphonics, Blue Magic, Bobby Womack, the Spinners, Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes (featuring Theodore Prendergrass), Billy Paul, these were all big news in the '70s!

excellant taste...("side show" was one of the first 45's i ever bought) (don't forget four tops, marvin gaye, al green...)

Thanks, Nick! Now how did I forget those, and the Temptations, who everyone remembers for their early '60s songs, but who I remember first and foremost for "Masterpiece". And of course: "Ladies and gentlemen...EARTH, WIND AND FIRE!!!!!"

Yeah, "that's the way of the world"... one of my first albums... great title tune, and "shining star", with that totally cool finale... and regarding the 70's (eddie-less, david-less) temptations, you neglected "papa was a rolling stone" ("...and dat ain't right")...

Was that a cover of Muddy Waters' song? Not that I don't know the Temptations' song; what I don't know is Muddy Waters' song! I saw a 5-disc set on the Temptations, from the beginning to about two years ago. Don't I just WISH I were a millionaire! I'd buy it without a thought! One of the first songs on Disc 4 was "Masterpiece"! Sonny & Cher performed "Plastic Man" on one of their shows, but I saw it on the "Masterpiece" album which said that all songs were written by... I have to find the jacket to get the name. BTW, Sonny & Cher's cover was not worthwhile! Better get the original!

hard to believe (being that sonny's such a soulful guy, and all)... no, the old muddy water's standard ("rollin' stone") is not the same tune...the old temptation's song was probably a creation of motown's amazing stable of writers (gordie, holland, whitfield, etc...)

Gotta have a MoTown night after all this chatter!

I had quite a few motown nights when I lived in Louisville.

yeah, that sounds good... (how would that go? motown in cowtown tonight... isn't that an old bob wills tune?)

*cackle* damn, nick! You be quick and dirty!

totally irredeemable...

you're tough.

it's all that ripple and thunderbird (i mix them, you know...many people can't do that)

Which goes first for least destructive hangover?

actually, a hangover implies the prospect of sobriety... (should i ever achieve that state, will let you know...)

fair enough! Which goes first to stem the tide of most destructive bowels?!?! apologies in advance for the crudeness!

( ) (staring blankly ahead at monitor; mouth slightly ajar; cocktail glass lying splintered at my feet- thanks, by the way; words unable to find expression; you have shut my mouth)

*satisfied grin* (amidst uncontrollable laughter!)

Anybody here into really old R&B from like 1949-53? The grown-up stuff before doo-wop and rock and roll turned everything into sock hop teeny bopper stuff for the kids? Hucklebuck Williams Roy Brown Erline Harris Amos Milburn Earl Bostic Wild Bill Moore Joe Liggins stuff like that?

There's a "quiz" over in the Blues topic, so here's an R&B quiz: 1. What R&B artist covered "Good Rocking Tonight" in 1949, but changed the title, and changed the lyrics to the following: "Have you heard the news, there's good jumping tonight. I'm gonna hold my baby everything will be fine, We'll be drinking good whisky, brandy and wine Hey man, there's good jumping tonight. Do you want to jump children? YEAH Do you want to jump children? YEAH Do you want to jump children? YEAH Do you want to jump children? YEAH Well, jump, jump, jump, jump etc. 2. Everybody knows about Rocket 88, the "first rock n roll song," cut in 1951. The lyrics and music are very similar to those of a song done in 1947 by Jimmy Liggins, about another GM line of luxury automobiles, more expensive than Oldsmobiles. Name the song. 3. Speaking of Jimmy Liggins, Jimmy's older brother Joe did the first million-selling race record, a song during WWII called "The Honeydripper." Who was the *original* honeydripper? (Hint, he got that pseud in the 1930's). 4. Apart from Louis Jordan, name another bandleader who is very often cited as being the father of R&B? Wynonie Harris sang blues in his band. Sister Rosetta Tharpe sang gospel in his band. 5. Who is the undisputed father of black gospel? He wrote many very popular gospel blues, starting in the 1920's. 6. What NYC-based tenor sax artist was the leader of "Alan Freed's Rock and Roll Orchestra" from 1952, when Freed got to NYC, to the late-50's? 7. Which of the following is *not* the name of a dance which originated in late-1940's era R&B circles? the hucklebuck the rock and roll the suzie Q the mess around the twist 8. Fill in the blank: "Has anybody here seen Miss [______] Brown?" (Big hit single by Roy Brown, 1949). 9. Who was Amos Milburn's main tenor sax player from the mid-40's to the 1950's? He also arranged all the Milburn recording sessions and then had his own successful career starting when he left Milburn. 10. What was Waxie Maxie's real name? Who was he?

1. Jimmy Witherspoon 2. Cadillac Boogie 3. Roosevelt Sykes 4. Lucky Millinder 5. Thomas A. Dorsey 6. Freddie Mitchell 7. The Twist (from the 1930's, revived for rock 'n roll in the late 1950's.) 8. Fanny 9. Maxwell Davis 10.Max Silverman, a DJ in Washington DC

Mighty quiet in here

What's up rattlecat?

Just wondered why nobody talks about R&B here, seeing how it's the greatest music, and the greatest art form, that the human race has yet to achive, or ever will achieve.

Methinks your incredible expertise and knowledge in the subject has humbled us lesser mortals into keeping our mouths shut lest we deeply offend thee...So, with that in mind, and no offense intended, what's the difference between blues and r&b?

In one word, saxophone. Blues went from 1895 to today with every permutation you can imagine. R&B went from 1949 to now with almost as many. That doesn't clear it up much does it? They classify Whitney Houston as R&B so the term is obviously meaningless in recent years. Fans of 1950's "doo-wop" vocal groups consider that to be the original R&B. They are wrong. R&B started out at the very end of the swing era. Lionel Hampton, Louis Jordan, Lucky Millinder, Roy Milton, and Buddy Johnson had swing type bands with a totally new beat. It was a boogie beat but more rocking. Around 1949, everything changed. Swing died suddenly in 1947 when they discovered how to rock. Rocking blues in a swing band format became known as R&B in 1949, often with a blues singer in the front, but j st as often an instrumental. R&B was for dancing. About 5 years later they started calling it rock and roll. Same thing.

Blues has no saxophone. If it does, it's R&B. That's a given, and you can use that tid-bit of info everywhere you go. Word!!

(fascinating... i'd like to hear/learn more)

Learn more here: http://www.tunes.com/tunes-cgi2/tunes/person_frame/10262/0/0/76

Hear/learn here, about the father of rock and roll, Roy Brown: http://www.tunes.com/tunes-cgi2/tunes/person_frame/10478/0/0/76

but we like it better when you tell us...

thanks... gonna check it out... (now, in fact)... all i really know is the johnsons (robert, lonnie, willie, tommy), howlin' wolf, muddy waters, sonny boy williamson, willie dixon, etc... am a big fan of 40's-50's r&b, though (the spaniels, the el dorados, the moonglows (love harvey fuqua), the dells, the magnificents, the cleftones, etc... oh and johnny ace, too)... don't you think that stuff holds up amazingly well?

I wish I could appreciate doo-wop vocal groups. There are some that I like... the El Doradoes "At My Front Door" is a great record. Some of the stuff with a dance beat can sure be great. But so much of it is that sentimental lovey dovey stuff that doesn't move me at all. I never developed a taste for it. I know than many other people love it so I don't criticize it. As for all the Johnsons, the Wolf, Muddy, etc, that's Chicago blues. There is a great big monster difference between Chicago Blues and sax-driven R&B from 1949-52 period. The music that I talk about lasted for those few years and died, and has not been seen since. It's simply the most amazing, most powerful and most exciting music this world has ever seen. People like: Hucklebuck Williams Big Jay McNeely Joe Lutcher Jimmy Preston Jimmy Cavallo Illinois Jacquet Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson Hal Singer Wild Bill Moore Screaming Jay Hawkins Amos Milburn (this is a biggie) The young Fats Domino age 18 The young Little Richard age 17 (another biggie) Johnny Otis Roy Brown Wynonie Harris Nappie Brown

Here is the most incredible web site for pre-rock R&B: http://www.hoyhoy.com check it out!!!!!!!!!!

will do...

...and never got back.

With Rattlecat's encyclopedic knowledge, he should be doing a nationwide show on National Public Radio or it's Minnesota clone (unfortunately syndicators would find his taste sadly uncommercial). Wonder where he shook, rattled and rolled too as well. Are he and Wer whooping it up at a juke joint somewhere?

I rather think not...knowing one of the pair...however, one never knows...!