In case the note above was missed: I'm clueless on this starting topics stuff. ;-) Yay, a new Mad World Topic is needed! And so soon. Thanks to everyone for your participation!

How appropriate a subtitle these days. ;-) From one of the many AIG bonus articles: Liddy said that on Tuesday, he had "asked those who have received retention payments in excess of $100,000 or more to return at least half of those payments." Some have "already stepped forward and returned 100 percent," he added. Asked by Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., whether he would turn over the names of individuals who received the money, as well as the amounts, he said he would do so only if assured the information not be made public. When Frank said he might seek a subpoena, Liddy said he was concerned about the safety of the employees and their families, and read aloud from a death threat received by one of them. Ah, why be askeered for their safety if they did nothing wrong.

I want them to move on from this debacle. I bet Liddy is sorry he came out of retirement to take this $1./yr job, only to be grilled by those slugs. I'm not into finger-pointing....blame-games only feed the ego of self-centered people who want to feel important and above it all. Dodd facing fresh political firestorm http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090318/pl_politico/30833 It serves no purpose ...and $168M is a drop in the $170B that AIG got. Free Timmy and let him get on with the plan to buy the toxic assets of the banks. The sooner they get that plan going and yes ,get the next stimulus package in place, the sooner the economy will start to recover. Banks first; then housing. Now is no time to change Treasury Secs I say. He's got a full plate; let him focus.

sorry

From what I've been reading, Dodd looks like he may be toast in the next election.

I want them to move on from this debacle. When a bunch of rich people get more money, it is time to leave it alone and move on, but other things deserve investigation. From what I've been reading, Dodd looks like he may be toast in the next election. He's been blaming it on some unnamed people from Treasury, who advised against the provision because of "lawsuits." *rolling eyes* I would imagine it will all come out today as to the source.

Looks like you and O are on the same page, Evelyn: " I know Washington's all in a tizzy, and everybody is pointing fingers at each other, and saying it's their fault, the Democrats' fault, and the Republicans' fault. Listen: I'll take responsibility. I'm the President. We didn't draft these contracts. We've got a lot on our plate. But it is appropriate when you're in charge to make sure that stuff doesn't happen like this, so we're going to do everything we can to fix it. So for everybody in Washington who's busy scrambling to try to figure out how to blame somebody else, just go ahead and talk to me, because it's my job to fix these messes even if I don't make them. But what's just as important is that we make sure we don't find ourselves in this situation again, where taxpayers are on the hook for losses in bad times, and all the wealth that's generated in good times goes to those who are at the very top of the income ladder."

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac execs getting bonuses too? When did the definition of bonuses lose its meaning from producing agreed-upon or better-than-targeted results? Surely these aren't signing bonuses, like in the NBA. It isn't as if the job market is tough and you have to lure really good people away from positions. Lots of out of work people. Lots of management people who have been forced to take separation packages over the last decade. So retention can't be an issue. This is perversity writ large. :-( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/18/AR2009031803188.html?hpid=topnews

You gotta wonder if these "business" reporters actually know how businesses operate. Big wigs don't move offices unless they're getting better digs. Other departments might be moved into smaller spaces to save money. Also, does Citigroup own the building? Are they planning on leasing out the vacated space here or wherever the consolidated ops come from? With so much downsizing, I would expect to see tons of vacant space but little demand for it in Manhattan. Bailed-Out Citi Plans $10M CEO Office Citi, Which Has Received $45B in Govt. Funds, Will Spend $10M on NYC Exec Offices By ZUNAIRIA ZAKI ABC News Business Unit March 19, 2009� Citigroup, which has received $45 billion in taxpayer bailout money, plans to spend $10 million on new offices at its Park Avenue headquarters for CEO Vikram Pandit and his deputies. A Citi source confirmed the renovation plans to ABC News, which were first reported by Bloomberg News. The source added that the renovation is part of an overall effort to cut costs by consolidating offices. Last month, Pandit testified before Congress about the way his company is using taxpayer dollars received through the Troubled Asset Relief Program. "The American people are right to expect that we use TARP funds responsibly, quickly and transparently to help American families, businesses and communities," he said. Earlier this year, Citigroup reversed a decision to buy a $50 million corporate jet under pressure from the government. The Citi source likened the $10 million in office renovations to refinancing a home: You need to put money down so you can save money over time. Permits for the renovations were filed in September 2008, according to the source. "This office space consolidation is part of a global effort to create greater operating efficiencies and generate millions of dollars in savings in the years ahead," Citi told ABC News in a statement. "Through this project, senior executives in our corporate headquarters are moving from two floors to smaller, simpler offices on a single floor." "These changes, combined with greater use of shared work spaces and alternative work arrangements, will double the overall occupancy rate on the remaining floor," the company added. "In addition, based on estimates made when the project was initiated, we expect to generate savings in the next few years well in excess of the project costs compared to our current utilization of headquarters executive space." Bloomberg reported that the company plans to spend at least $3.2 million for basic construction, such as wall removal, plumbing and fire safety, but that the overall cost would be at least three times as high. [Thain filler] According to Bloomberg, plans for Citi's renovations on file with the city specify the installation of at least one Sub-Zero Inc. refrigerator and icemaker, "premium grade" millwork and a Madico Inc. "Safety Shield 800" blast-proof window film. The project includes 17 private offices, each with space for administrative assistants, two conference rooms and open areas with "soft seating." [Ed note: hardly damning specs] http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/story?id=7121558&page=1

I don't think they only started to owe the back taxes since January 20th. But maybe it was one of those corporate tax reduction things. ;-) From Reuters: Some bailed-out companies owe U.S. taxes-lawmaker Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:19am EDT WASHINGTON, March 19 (Reuters) - Some top recipients of U.S. bailout money owe the federal government more than $220 million in unpaid taxes, a U.S. lawmaker said on Thursday. Representative John Lewis, a Democrat who heads the U.S. House of Representatives Ways and Means oversight subcommittee, said 13 bailed-out companies owe the federal government taxes. Two of them owe more than $100 million each. Lewis said that the firms, which he did not name, signed statements at the time of receiving federal aid stating that they owed no federal taxes. Lewis said the revelation raises further questions about the bailout program. http://www.reuters.com/article/americasRegulatoryNews/idUSWEN620420090319

Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent By ANDREW O. SELSKY, Associated Press Writer SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico � Many detainees locked up at Guantanamo were innocent men swept up by U.S. forces unable to distinguish enemies from noncombatants, a former Bush administration official said Thursday. "There are still innocent people there," Lawrence B. Wilkerson, a Republican who was chief of staff to then-Secretary of State Colin Powell, told The Associated Press. "Some have been there six or seven years." Wilkerson, who first made the assertions in an Internet posting on Tuesday, told the AP he learned from briefings and by communicating with military commanders that the U.S. soon realized many Guantanamo detainees were innocent but nevertheless held them in hopes they could provide information for a "mosaic" of intelligence. "It did not matter if a detainee were innocent. Indeed, because he lived in Afghanistan and was captured on or near the battle area, he must know something of importance," Wilkerson wrote in the blog. He said intelligence analysts hoped to gather "sufficient information about a village, a region, or a group of individuals, that dots could be connected and terrorists or their plots could be identified." Wilkerson, a retired Army colonel, said vetting on the battlefield during the early stages of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan was incompetent with no meaningful attempt to discriminate "who we were transporting to Cuba for detention and interrogation." Navy Cmdr. Jeffrey Gordon, a Pentagon spokesman, declined to comment on Wilkerson's specific allegations but noted that the military has consistently said that dealing with foreign fighters from a wide variety of countries in a wartime setting was a complex process. The military has insisted that those held at Guantanamo were enemy combatants and posed a threat to the United States. In his posting for The Washington Note blog, Wilkerson wrote that "U.S. leadership became aware of this lack of proper vetting very early on and, thus, of the reality that many of the detainees were innocent of any substantial wrongdoing, had little intelligence value, and should be immediately released." Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney fought efforts to address the situation, Wilkerson said, because "to have admitted this reality would have been a black mark on their leadership." Wilkerson told the AP in a telephone interview that many detainees "clearly had no connection to al-Qaida and the Taliban and were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Pakistanis turned many over for $5,000 a head." Some 800 men have been held at Guantanamo since the prison opened in January 2002, and 240 remain. Wilkerson said two dozen are terrorists, including confessed Sept. 11 plotter Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was transferred to Guantanamo from CIA custody in September 2006. "We need to put those people in a high-security prison like the one in Colorado, forget them and throw away the key," Wilkerson said. "We can't try them because we tortured them and didn't keep an evidence trail." But the rest of the detainees need to be released, he said. Wilkerson, who flew combat missions as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam and left the government in January 2005, said he did not speak out while in government because some of the information was classified. He said he feels compelled to do so now because Cheney has claimed in recent press interviews that President Barack Obama is making the U.S. less safe by reversing Bush administration policies toward terror suspects, including ordering Guantanamo closed. The administration is now evaluating what to do with the prisoners who remain at the U.S. military base in Cuba. "I'm very concerned about the kinds of things Cheney is saying to make it seem Obama is a danger to this republic," Wilkerson said. "To have a former vice president fearmongering like this is really, really dangerous."

Just like I've been saying (and reading) for quite a while.

Wilkerson said, because "to have admitted this reality would have been a black mark on their leadership." Because God forbid they'd have to admit...*gasp*....a *mistake*! Heinous people.

I said that ages ago ...let them all go. Now looks like it will happen Gitmo inmates could be released in US http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=89075§ionid=3510203

From what I've been reading, Dodd looks like he may be toast in the next election. Of course that's a long way off and he's got lots of time to 'cover-up his...." I just came from a lecture by Paul Gigot (Op Ed WSJ) and he agrees with you, however. Along with Murtha. I don't know what scandal he's involved in. Can't keep up nowdays, LOL.

Re Murtha, same thing as many of them. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/16/AR2009031601393.html?hpid=topnews

*yawn* Note to self: Must send this to son who graduated from Penn State.

AIG is making sure employees are watching their backs. http://gawker.com/5175745/aig-corporate-securitys-tips-for-surviving-an-angry-mob I enjoyed many of the comments.

More on Dodd and his lack of candor. http://gawker.com/5175448/chris-dodd-is-a-liar?skyline=true&s=i And this is interesting to note re foreign recipients of AIG bonus $$: http://gawker.com/5175726/british-con-men-exempt-from-aig-tax Jim Cramer Can't Quit Jon Stewart http://gawker.com/5175094/jim-cramer-cant-quit-jon-stewart

I ddidn't watch the president on Leno. Youtube probably has it. anything important?...I seldom watch Leno

Other than the Special Olympics remark, you mean? I didn't see it either and only heard the remark through a sleepy haze on the radio alarm.

I saw it on Youtube. Funny; good sense of humor Other than the Special Olympics remark, you mean? Pfft. I don't pick-up on that stuff. I know he doesn't intend it as a mean remark. I was glad he defended Tim though. Waiting to see if The Daily Show has Senator Dodd on .

I know he doesn't intend it as a mean remark. No, exactly, but as I said to someone today, I think he sometimes forgets he's President and he has to watch how he says certain things now. I wouldn't have thought anything of it had one of my friends said it I'm sure.

Back to the drawing board I say... Auditors project deeper deficits for Obama budget By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer � 18 mins ago WASHINGTON � President Barack Obama's budget would produce $9.3 trillion in deficits over the next decade, more than four times the deficits of Republican George W. Bush's presidency, congressional auditors said Friday. The new Congressional Budget Office figures offered a far more dire outlook for Obama's budget than the new administration predicted just last month � a deficit $2.3 trillion worse. It's a prospect even the president's own budget director called unsustainable. In his White House run, Obama assailed the economic policies of his predecessor, but the eye-popping deficit numbers threaten to swamp his ambitious agenda of overhauling health care, exploring new energy sources and enacting scores of domestic programs. The dismal deficit figures, if they prove to be accurate, inevitably raise the prospect that Obama and his Democratic allies controlling Congress would have to consider raising taxes after the recession ends or else pare back his agenda. By CBO's calculation, Obama's budget would generate deficits averaging almost $1 trillion a year of red ink over 2010-2019. [.....] http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090321/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_budget

And there's more stimulus packages to go. "But Obama insisted on Friday that his agenda is still on track. "What we will not cut are investments that will lead to real growth and prosperity over the long term," Obama said. "That's why our budget makes a historic commitment to comprehensive health care reform. That's why it enhances America's competitiveness by reducing our dependence on foreign oil and building a clean energy economy" I'm placing my bet on higher taxes. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090321/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_budget

I don't necessarily have a problem with that to some degree. Let those tax breaks given over the last decade expire. Let corporations start paying their fair share. Let the IRS actually collect the corporate taxes they are owed that haven't been paid. Of course frankly, the taxes should probably be imposed because the US has spent a bizillion dollars on a war we shouldn't have been in and not put it where it needed to go. It's gotta be made up somehow. The day of reckoning is at hand for that ill conceived folly among other things. Not one of us really and truly sacrificed anything. It's coming.

Let corporations start paying their fair share. Let the IRS actually collect the corporate taxes they are owed that haven't been paid. More than 35%? Music to their ears. I can see the tsunami of industry moving back to Ohio. Now maybe collecting taxes from members of Congress and his cabinet who have been (ahem)remiss might help. And just in cases you haven't read: Obama's moving troops to Afghanistan. To paraphrase James Carville: "It's his budget...."

I can see the tsunami of industry moving back to Ohio. They didn't do it over the past 8 years. In fact, that's when they all moved overseas.

I forgot the ;-) There's a reason they left...35% corporate tax with more to come apparently. Though Tim said "after the recession". Ireland has 12% Hungary 16% Slovakia (where I visited last yr and there are industrial parks all over)19% http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/1466.html Ultimately the cost is passed on to the consumer anyway. Soooooo.

Hungary 16% Slovakia (where I visited last yr and there are industrial parks all over)19% Huh? The reason there are industrial parks is because the labor is dirt cheap. Always good to compare onself to emerging, post-Soviet bloc countries. How about Mexico and Guatamala? What's their corporate tax rate? It has always been about the labor cost. Cheap labor, not taxes.

Cheap labor, not taxes. Exactly. I heard someone talking the other night, can't remember who, but they were saying about the corporate tax cuts given with the idea of the companies creating jobs....except they didn't. They "kept" the money and sent jobs overseas since it was a pittance compared to here.

(Evelyn) There's a reason they left...35% corporate tax with more to come apparently. So, if I understand correctly from what you're saying, is that after all the tax breaks corporations got over the past several years, that their tax rate ended up at 35%. Then it would follow that the tax rate was greater prior to that. Am I reasoning that correctly?

Labor and materials are the two biggest costs. They also relocate production facilities to these countries because they can pollute the hell out of those countries and use materials and practices outlawed in this country, you know, like lead paint or child labor.

I have no comment about it at the moment. Just thought this interesting. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20299.html

Look! A liberal critical of O's financial guys (and by extension, O). Not a rare occurrence on this side of the aisle. Bet he won't be apologizing either. ;-) Paul Krugman | New York Times Blog March 20, 2009, 9:05 am AIG Preliminary thoughts on the tax bill: 1. It’s not the way you should make policy — it’s clumsy, and it will punish some innocent parties while letting the most guilty off scot-free 2. But — there wasn’t much alternative at this point. And for that I blame the Obama people. I’ll leave to others the question of who knew or should have known that the bonus firestorm was coming; but it’s part of a pattern. At every stage, Geithner et al have made it clear that they still have faith in the people who created the financial crisis — that they believe that all we have is a liquidity crisis that can be undone with a bit of financial engineering, that “governments do a bad job of running banks” (as opposed, presumably, to the wonderful job the private bankers have done), that financial bailouts and guarantees should come with no strings attached. This was bad analysis, bad policy, and terrible politics. This administration, elected on the promise of change, has already managed, in an astonishingly short time, to create the impression that it’s owned by the wheeler-dealers. And that leaves it with no ability to counter crude populism.

but they were saying about the corporate tax cuts given with the idea of the companies creating jobs....except they didn't. There's lots of misinformation out there, Comrades;-) If the administration wants to cap all bank executive salaries, they can certainly restrict corporate tax reduction to firms that expand, increase jobs and most importantly ,locate in the US...perhaps even tie-in tax reduction to states that have highest unemployment, with oversight. Labor and materials are the two biggest costs I won't argue there...v. important, non-union. But a lot of what you say is generalizing and impassioned rhetoric;-) (Krugman)"that financial bailouts and guarantees should come with no strings attached. " This is simply not true. I still support Tim;give him a chance. Sometimes I think it's just me and the President, LOL.

Reid seeks to clarify stimulus rule on casinos "LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Nevada Sen. Harry Reid has sent a letter to President Barack Obama asking for clarification to a provision that restricts casinos from using federal stimulus funds".... http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10043348 And he's the leader in the Senate. Lord Save Us.

Well, well, well....here's The Great Statesman, Maxine Waters, piling on the President..., "'Well, you know, they've got some explaining to do and I think the president is going to have to clarify to the American public what took place between Treasury and Mr. Dodd. Obviously there was, appears to have been, some kind of agreement that they would protect the AIG from having to give those bonuses. I don't know who said what and when. Chris Dodd said he wrote the language but that he was pressured practically by Treasury. Maybe the president is not up to speed on what is going on. But I think it is going to have to be clarified.'" http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0309/Obama_has_some_explaining_to_do_Waters_says.html "...the president not up to speed..."How dare she!! Think Jon Stewart will have her on the show?;-) Nah! Though he and others;-) hammered & sickled Rick Santelli and all he did was disagree with the stimulus package.

Think Jon Stewart will have her on the show?;-) Maybe, maybe not, but Bill Maher already did 2 wks ago, though this news wasn't out and he would've brought it up if it had. She did say things were much worse than anyone knew though.

(Evelyn)I still support Tim;give him a chance. Sometimes I think it's just me and the President, LOL. LOL, I'm still onboard, too. Maybe today's plan announcement will help, though once again, it won't happen overnight. And banks and other "private partners" being asked to invest will want all sorts of guarantees. . . like don't tell me what kind of bonuses I can pay. Will be politically unpopular. The big O better don his kevlar vest, and buy one in every color.;-) There was an excellent show on NBC last night, taking you through the mortgage mess step by step. Banks made all sorts of commissions to sell the subprime mortgages--even falsifying applicants' wage data to get it through the underwriters. Some even had the underwriters reporting to the sales departments--no objectivity there. Then they'd sell them to Wall Street (e.g., Bear Stearns, Lehman, etc.) who in turn would package them into "mortgage securities" and sell them to various investors (e.g., pension funds, 401(k)s), etc. No one was looking at the viability of the underlying mortgages. Mortgage apps from people earning $1,300 per month were falsified to read $9,300 per month. Or just jamed through underwriting--anything to get the sale and the commission. Greedy bastards.

there was a similar doc on CNBC a few weeks ago called "House of Cards" with David Faber, great financial reporter. Not only banks made commissions, but so did mom 'n pop mortgage companies in California. They hired salesman off the street, fergodsake. One was a guy who went from being a pizza delivery man to a multi -K $$$ a week mortgage broker. WSJ warned of this scam yrs ago. http://www.realestatejournal.com/buysell/mortgages/20050721-anders.html "Skeptics worry that this easy-credit euphoria could end with a real-estate crash and waves of problem loans. Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan warned in June that housing prices in some areas appeared "unsustainable," adding that he was concerned about "the dramatic increase in the prevalence of interest-only loans." In a recent Wall Street Journal survey of 56 leading economists, 11 named a possible housing bust as their biggest worry for the economy." But 45 of the leading econs obvioulsy missed it!! Don't tell me Congress didn't know what was going on. But as a country we govern under the habitual practice of "IF it ain't broke, don't fix it". And then by panic...witness the recent "mob rule" law to tax bonuses *retroactively*!

(Evelyn)Not only banks made commissions, but so did mom 'n pop mortgage companies in California. Absolutely, I shouldn't have just said banks. They talked about Countrywide last night, and something else called People's Choice, just to name two. (Evelyn)But as a country we govern under the habitual practice of "IF it ain't broke, don't fix it" And then by panic...witness the recent "mob rule" law to tax bonuses *retroactively*! . I completely agree on both counts. Thanks for the '05 WSJ article. Terrible.

From O&E (Dorine)No continuation of the Duplicity interview on CR tonight. It's all about the economy. I'm taping as it looks interesting anyway. The one columnist from the NYT, Andrew-something was on Bill Maher last Friday. Your friend Paul Krugman wasn't happy with Mr Obama. But then he never is, unless one totally agrees with him. A v. narrow-minded individual:"My way or your *wrong*!! Andrew Sorkin, Financial reporter for NYT. Junk asset plan"could" work. Depends if investors are enchanted with getting in partnership with the government; afer last week, there are doubts out there. I say:"Muzzle Congress".

I'm not making a judgement on the content of the first, I just LOL at the snarkiness and I agree with the sentiment of the second. GOP overwhelmed by kos Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 02:20:04 PM PDT So today we've seen Republicans try out their new line of attack: that Obama is throwing out "too many ideas" on the economy, with little cohesion. A DNC spokesman fires back: "I guess when you have no new ideas, anything more than zero must seem overwhelming." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ President Obama confronts the filter, round two by Jed Lewison Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 05:52:57 PM PDT Paraphrasing a comment by Chris Kofinis on 1600 earlier today, here's a translation of the message President Obama is delivering to his Republican critics: "We gave you guys 8 years to screw up this country -- can you at least give us 8 months to start fixing it?"

(Evelyn) Your friend Paul Krugman wasn't happy with Mr Obama. But then he never is, unless one totally agrees with him. A v. narrow-minded individual:"My way or your *wrong*!! Can't call him my friend as I don't read him often enough to have an opinion of him. I knew he hasn't been happy with much of the economic policy of late. And BTW, what if he's really right?

*Some people*;-) might say he's being irresponsible and unpatriotic;-; (The Great One)can you at least give us 8 months to start fixing it?" I admire his optimism:-D GOP overwhelmed by kos LOL I wondered when Marcos Mocoso was going to surface again.

*Some people*;-) might say he's being irresponsible and unpatriotic;-; Krugman? How? By disagreeing? The (at least highest profile) people who said people like that were unpatriotic are fortunately retired from public service. ;-) Thought you'd appreciate comments from Kos. ;-)

Thought you'd appreciate comments from Kos. ;-) LOL..Hate to disappoint you... I scrolled through the narrative. Sorry;-) You just didn't get my quote, Comrade.

What narrative? I only posted those snippets that they had posted. There was no narrative or link. My comment about appreciating Kos was facetious as well. ;-)

From O&E, Note to Karen: if this belongs back there, pl. move it. Julianne Moore To Play Hillary Clinton by Peter Knegt (Updated 17 hours, 13 minutes ago) I saw that yesterday but opted not to post it. (Karen)but I see that Peter Morgan is up to his usual: Why do you that? I liked "The Queen". Wow! What a line-up of actors who wanted to play Bill. Philip seymour Hopkins? He's have to lose a little weight. Question: Wonder who is going to play Monica?

That's a movie, it should be O&E.

*shrugging shoulders* Eh! Can't be bothered.

Et tu Rahm....? From THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE Rahm Emanuel's profitable stint at mortgage giant Short Freddie Mac stay made him at least $320,000 "....On Emanuel's watch, the board was told by executives of a plan to use accounting tricks to mislead shareholders about outsize profits the government-chartered firm was then reaping from risky investments. The goal was to push earnings onto the books in future years, ensuring that Freddie Mac would appear profitable on paper for years to come and helping maximize annual bonuses for company brass. The accounting scandal wasn't the only one that brewed during Emanuel's tenure..." http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-rahm-emanuel-profit-26-mar26,0,5682373.story

Tired of the Sunnies, Shitites and Kurds? Welcome to the warring histories of the Pastuns, the Uzbecks, the Tajiks and the Hazara Shiites of Afghanistan.... WASHINGTON TIMES: ..... "The Holbrooke-Petraeus-Clinton faction, according to the sources, prevailed. The result is expected to be a major, long-term military and civilian program to reinvent Afghanistan from one of the most backward, least developed nations to a relatively prosperous democratic state. " ...... http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/26/inside-the-ring-23718486/

Well, that is the thing at this point. It will be all for naught if they don't get a handle on our "friends" Pakistan. Apparently this guy didn't appreciate all of Eleanor Roosevelt's or any other First Ladies contributions over the years or think they had much of a "historic role". Rep. Issa pushing to limit first lady�s power to �protect� her �historic role.� Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) and his conservative allies are pushing for legislation that would limit the first lady�s ability to do substantive policy work. Issa had originally proposed the bill last year, in fear of Bill Clinton moving back in to the White House. But he insists the bill is only about ensuring �transparency� for the work of first ladies, adding, �We are trying actually to protect the historic role of the first lady.� Or, as Gawker summed up Issa�s proposal in its headline, �Congressman Wants Michelle Obama To Shut Up And Look Pretty.� http://thinkprogress.org/

"first lady�s ability to do substantive policy work." Depends what one means by "policy". First ladies aren't elected, but they certainly have made great contributions.

Exactly!

*ACORN* ...at best a little ham-fisted...or perhaps the guillotine.... "The Obama administration's constant bashing of CEOs and capitalism, the circus atmosphere in Connecticut where ACORN has been sponsoring tours of the homes of AIG executives, and the confrontations that have occurred are modern versions of the Place de la Concorde circa 1793-94. " http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/27/uncle-sams-heavy-hand/

Gives new meaning to the word: Contrived Obama Town Hall Questioners Were Campaign Backers http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/03/27/obama_town_hall_questioners_we.html?hpid=topnews so much news....so little time....;-(

History in the making here today. Pres O has just walked into No 10. I will be glued to the TV today. Moreso, to monitor news re:protestor disturbances. Unfortunately, DH works close by to the hot spots,he doesn't get to stay at home, business as usual for him :-( Double edged sword to watch history in the making, but I will be glad when G20 has left town.

The customised tank seen in this footage is right outside my DH's building. He took a photo of it from his office window. His street is thankfully now blocked off and guarded by Police. Yikes. From TV coverage there are significant crowds outsid whom look a little restless. Leaflets are being distributed saying 'hang the bankers' and the like. Your's very nervous :-( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7976444.stm

From TV coverage there are significant crowds outsid whom look a little restless significant crowds are gathered outside Bank Of England. I saw some crowd jostling. Must be a nightmare for the Police on the ground. Thank goodness DH no longer works in Threadneedle Street Branch, which is right across a narrow road from B of E. Not too good for those poor colleagues today and tomorrow looks to promise more of the same :-(

Here are some scenes from this mad, mad, mad London, today. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7975851.stm

I knew this would happen. Protests turned nasty. Protestors entered RBS Threadneedle Street, smashed windows, Smoke bombs, protestors trying to get inside bank. V.V.worrying.

(Sue) Your's very nervous :-( As soon as I logged on this morning and saw the headline, I immediately thought of Ant.

Thank you Sue. We're getting footage of the protests on our television this morning. I'm thinking of you all.

So far Ant's building is safe, but I will not deny I am very worried and keeping a close track of movements via the news coverage here. He has to navigate Liverpool Street tonight. I won't breath easy until he is home safe Shocking seeing scenes unfolding of RBS Threadneedle Street being trashed. Thankfully the building is empty today, though I didn't know that when the story first broke. A couple of protesters got onto the roof but it sounds like it was mainly small offices on the ground floor which were penetrated. Kinda scary seeing smoke coming from an upper window, but I think it might have been a smoke bomb which was lobbed into the building. Graffiti on walls, and items from inside the office have been stolen (Computers) and a chair was lobbed through a window. It's been reported some protesters are wearing Police Uniform, those caught have been arrested and take away. Riot Police on horseback are now controlling the crowds. Sheesh! and I am sure there will be more to come tomorrow. A group of hoodie protestors were seen trying to enter the cordoned off part of Bishopsgate, nearer to where Ant works. Police gave chase by hoodies escaped. I feel for the Police and their families, very worrying. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090401/tuk-g20-protesters-clash-with-police-6323e80.html

Thanks, Karen and Evelyn. The protesters are now chanting and protesting at being penned in after trashing RBS building. Apparently there are concerns as to the legality of holding them in as to their right to protest. The protesters say all they want is the right to move further up the road. Yeah and to cause more chaos! Sheesh,What about the right of those whom have to carry out their normal working day. I am not against peaceful protest, but.............

On another note, Pres 'O', enters #10. Interesting video http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/video_and_audio/default.stm

first picture is of protesters attacked RBS Threadneedle Street. Following security warning, DH's building has now been evacuated, goodness knows what's going to happen next. Thankfully he is on his way home now. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1166349/Protests-turn-violent-thousands-anti-capitalists-converge-Bank-England-G20-riot.html

Obviously the UK doesn't do what we do here with protesters....give them permits and pen them up blocks away from the meetings. Glad Ant got out of there. Reminds me of the World Trade Organization riots in Seattle 10 years ago.

(Dorine)Obviously the UK doesn't do what we do here with protesters....give them permits and pen them up blocks away from the meetings. Heaven forbid the UK would worry it would infringe the protesters rights, pfftt. I am shocked the front line police were not more suitably armoured. My heart goes out to those guys on the front line and their families whom must be very worried. I know the banks are culpable, the RBS is one of the main villains, and don't get me started on the monitory gluttony of Fred Goodwin! but the Government is also culpable, and Gordon Brown still hasn't publically apologised for their part in this mess! Irresponsible reporting, in sighting anger and hatred, is also to blame for today's events. The Press are also culpable.

They aren't anywhere near the meeting at 10 Downing, and the article did say there were barricades at the Old Lady of Threadneedle St, just in cases. But the focus on RBS is warranted from the British perspective, as it would be like people in the US converging on AIG.

However culpable the RBS, IMO, there is no excuse for the violent scenes I witness via the news channel today. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7977063.stm

pen them up blocks away from the meetings. Well, to be honest, I don't actually agree with this policy. At least keeping them so far from the action. There were at least a couple of competing protesting factions of Pro-Israelis ( Anti-Iran) and Pro-Palestinians during a UN meeting where I think Armidinijhad was speaking a few years ago. They penned them up several blocks away, and then over a block too from where the UN was, so really no one by the UN bldg could see or probably hear them. I think the protesters have every right to be near what they're protesting (though perhaps in a penned area), esp as they were given the permits. I don't agree they should be able to run amok and be a danger to others though.

(Dorine)I think the protesters have every right to be near what they're protesting (though perhaps in a penned area), esp as they were given the permits. I don't agree they should be able to run amok and be a danger to others though. Totally agree. I am not against protests, but, unfortunately these events usually attract the non peaceful faction (thugs). The protests started out peacefully today, but a minority usually turn nasty, which, IMO, tarnishes and clouds the message the protesters are trying to make.

I had no problem with the protesters doing their thing at all...it was the tremendous bitch it became to get around anywhere in midtown by every means of transportation for almost a week that got me because of security with major throughways and surrounding streets being blocked off as travel routes for dignitaries).

there is no excuse for the violent scenes I witness via the news channel today. Of course not, but unfortunately there are always some people hellbent on causing trouble. I wouldn't try to rationalize their motives and was only giving some perspective, as the US news hasn't been focused on the financial situation in other countries. We have enough problems here and some may not know why the protestors have targeted RBS.

Ah, I was writing while you posted and didn't see your response before submitting. Yes, I agree while it creates attention to be more violent, it is a smear on the message credibility at times.

(Karen)We have enough problems here and some may not know why the protestors have targeted RBS. I understand :-) Whilst RBS are guilty, no question about it. Other banks are equally as culpable, but they don't get the same coverage. Of course 'Fred the Shred' Goodwin and his extortionate pension, hasn't helped matters. Lord Myners has a lot to answer for too. IMO! I really mustn't start, gotta watch the BP ;-(

I will say one thing though, I admire much of Europe's willingness to participate in small and especially large scale protests of any kind. I admire their passion to get involved, as happened here in the 60's, like with the anti-Iraq war protests several years ago (although a lot of good it did). We don't get involved like that anymore for the most part, including myself honestly, and it saddens me some. The last I saw was just after the Prop 8/gay marriage ban was passed. Good size demonstrations in NY/CA (SF I think). I know some people who went to the demonstrations and I was proud to see it. I think Moon went to some gathering on the DC Mall a couple of years ago for something. Not sure if I remember that correctly.

(Dorine) I think Moon went to some gathering on the DC Mall a couple of years ago for something. It was an anti-war protest that coincided with the big book fair on the Mall.

I did not know what was happening in the news today until I logged unto Drool. I hope and pray that all of our Drool members and families in the UK are kept safe. I'm really sorry Sue. This is a difficult time for you and I just want you to know I'm thinking of you.

Thank you. Marlena. I'm feeling calmer now. Ant is now home safe and well and downing a strong cuppa tea ;-) But we can't help wondering what tomorrow will bring.

Glad to hear Ant is safely on his way home, Sue. The police have an extraordinarily difficult job to do. I wonder that these G-meetings take place in city centers. As Dorine posted, there were terrible riots in Seattle, Italy had lots of trouble a year or so ago, and now London. I think they need to go to a mountaintop retreat;-), if only to minimize risk to the rank and file employees, bystanders, and police.

Yes, perhaps the scenery would be soothing. ;-)

I have no problem with the protesters doing their thing at all I don't either, but no one has a right to participate in violent behavior, and put others in danger. PS I even marched for ERA* ...a million yrs ago, LOL. It was fun... we went by bus. Hey, it was a party. *For our British friends. Equal Rights Amendment . Equal Rights for women. (Didn't do much good...)

sorry... It's a pci of our President and Michelle at Buckingham Palace featured on Yahoo now. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090401/ap_on_re_eu/eu_obama Michelle looks so pretty. What engaging smiles they have.

LOL, this is so, cute ;-)

Oh My, just seen an updated TV report. There was an attempt to set fire to Threadneedle RBS. Police were inside and were able to extinguish the fire.

Thanks Sue, that's the pic I was trying to post. LOL. Didn't realize they were so tall. The Queen looks so tiny. I wonder what she carries in that purse in her own house. Police were inside and were able to extinguish the fire. Are the police allowed to use mace in such circumstances?

(Sue)Police were inside and were able to extinguish the fire. (Evelyn)Are the police allowed to use mace in such circumstances? I believe they are. When reports first came through I was shocked to see the Police standing back and apparently letting the protesters smash windows and enter the building. One brave (peaceful) protester asked the thugs to stop, he said it's a peaceful protest. Of course the thug ignored him and proceeded to set light to the office blinds. Sadly, I believe, it was naive to believe the protest would remain peaceful today. A protester on the TV has described the violence and damage as justified! beggars belief!

Apparently Pres 'O' gave the Queen an ipod as a present, awe. It's nice to see some peace and harmony from today :-)

An effigy of a banker is now being burnt outside Bank Of England. Talks of it escalating again! This aint over yet, worryingly so :-(

My opinion about this now is bring in the army!

Russell Brand was in amongst the crowd. Why am I not surprised. http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Showbiz-News/Russell-Brand-Joins-G20-Protest-Outside-Bank-Of-England-Ahead-Of-Summit/Article/200904115253399?lpos=Showbiz_News_Article_Related_Content_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15253399_Russell_Brand_Joins_G20_Protest_Outside_Bank_Of_England_Ahead_Of_Summit

One has to wonder how many of those "protesters" are passionate about the cause (whatever it is!) and how many are unemployed, on the dole, and looking for some excitement. I've seen some of those London marches in Soho and wondered:"Don't these people have jobs?" I doubt they can get nr the American Embassy in Mayfair.

One has to wonder how many of those "protesters" are passionate about the cause (whatever it is!) and how many are unemployed, on the dole, and looking for some excitement. Agree. IMO, if that is the case (cynic me) they are biting the hands that feeds them. The workers (including bankers) at least pay taxes to pay benefits/Dole! BTW, Not forgetting the sad news and loss of life from the North Sea Helicopter crash near Aberdeen today. RIP

how many are unemployed, on the dole, and looking for some excitement. Perhaps unemployed and just mad as hell? I agree the cause may not even affect them directly. I have no problem with Russell Brand being there. He may support the protest, but not the violence per se. Being there observing and being there participating are 2 different things. If I wasn't such a chicken s***, I would love to get near events like this to observe them first hand. But violence is a bad scene for sure.