SEPARATELY, THE DRUDGE REPORT HAS LEARNED, INVESTIGATORS HAVE BECOME CONVINCED THAT THERE MAY BE A DNA TRAIL THAT COULD CONFIRM PRESIDENT CLINTON'S SEXUAL INVOLVEMENT WITH LEWINSKY, A RELATIONSHIP THAT WAS CAPTURED IN LEWINSKY'S OWN VOICE ON AUDIO TAPE. TRIPP HAS SHARED WITH INVESTIGATORS A CONVERSATION WHERE LEWINSKY ALLEGEDLY CONFIDED THAT SHE KEPT A GARMENT WITH CLINTON'S DRIED SEMEN ON IT -- A GARMENT SHE ALLEGEDLY SAID SHE WOULD NEVER WASH. CONTROVERSY SWIRLS AROUND TAPES OF FORMER WHITE HOUSE INTERN, AS STARR MOVES IN! **World Exclusive** **Must Credit the DRUDGE REPORT** Federal investigators are now in possession of intimate taped conversations of a former White House intern, age 23, discussing details of her alleged sexual relationship with President Clinton, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned. The tapes were made by a federal employee who has been granted immunity. MORE According to sources in and out of government, Whitewater independent counsel Kenneth Starr became involved in the situation when he received intelligence that senior administration officials may have offered federal jobs to a young woman in an effort to prevent stories from going public -- stories involving sexual episodes that allegedly occurred in a room off the Oval Office. "Starr is not on the bimbo beat," one source close to the situation told the DRUDGE REPORT late Tuesday. "He's looking at a potential for obstruction of justice charges." A breakfast meeting that took place at The Watergate Hotel has attracted the attention of investigators. The development has completely consumed high-level Washington, with Starr's investigators working past midnight in recent days. Developing...

So, here's the deal. Either the gigs up for Clinton or for Starr. Someone's gonna bite the dust on this one. If she's copys that she had sex with Clinton or takes the Fifth, Clinton's probably going to have to resign. If Starr made this up, he's going to have to quit. It's time for a showdown at the OK corral.

Hmmm...

It's apparent with pressing matters of war (Iraq) and peace (mideast), Starr needs to settle this quickly. With the tapes, it should be a clearcut case. As far as Iraq goes, a serious situation is brewing, to quote NY Times William Safire: "In the Persian Gulf, preventive war is becoming more necessary every day. Saddam Hussein is producing his anthrax weapon for a clear purpose: to credibly threaten us with its use. When he gains the power of massive biological retaliation, our conventional and nuclear power becomes useless against him. If Clinton doesn't stop him now, the next President will face a far more horrific choice. " We may be moving toward a major turning point in American politics. Has Al Gore's time come prematurely?

i cannot properly describe my contempt, and my utter disgust, with kenneth starr... this tobacco mouth-piece, 'come moral arbiter of a nation... what manner of creature is this? i've been fascinated with politics for as long as i can remember (licked stamps, passed out bumper stickers for mcgovern in '72, when i was twelve)... and politics is, and has ever been, populated with sundry sleazy characters, little-big men occupying the fringes, and wreaking (temporary) havoc... sometimes managing- for a little while- to cause ordinarily thinking people to abandon common sense, and sometimes even a fundamental sense of decency (and fairplay), within the passion of a moment... but never have i seen (or could have imagined) the spectacle of american politics degenerated to this... the idea that we could lose our president because of the machinations of this supercillious, sanctimonious rat bastard sort of coursens the charm of politics for me, maybe for a long time... anyway, that's all i wanted to say, for now... well, i will say this- i would much sooner allign myself with a man possessing life, and passion (like jefferson, or franklin- or jack kennedy, for that matter, and bill clinton) any day than some dried-up, cold-blooded, milque-toast, walking-withered bag of bones like richard nixon, or ronald reagan (or ken frigging starr)...

I would concur with your deprecation of Kenneth Starr. The whole thing smacks of a cheap "sting" operation to validate Starr's exisitence. After all, how else to justify the *** $30 million *** spent on special prosecution efforts over the last several years. One thing for sure, this is either Starrs or Clintons last gasp. And a 20something year old former White House intern holds everyone's future in balance. There is no doubt Starr went overboard in this sting operation to the point of detaining the intern for 9 hours without the benefit of an attorney. Well, it won't take much longer for all this to shake out. We'll see what turn this takes in a very few days, I suspect.

It appears that President Clinton--whether the allegations are true or false--is about to undergo some tough times. Impeachment--very doubtful. Forced to resign--doubtful. Bad PR--definately. While Presidents Clinton judgement has to be questioned (for putting himself in a situation where allegations such as this could occur), this is hardly a Watergate type situation. National politics certainly are the big leagues--everyone plays hardball. No slack is ever permitted. Clintons enemies are now at bat after hitting a home run. What will happen when President Clinton steps up to the plate is a matter of speculation. Hoop

ken starr you rat bastard what feeds your soul, when you lie awake in the dark at 3am? are dead ideas enough for you then? do you wonder, these times as you toss and turn (in your rodent bed, rodent thoughts burning randomly through your pointed, rodent head) what gives you the f***ing right- you bloodless heartless ****less tool of narrow pig-eyed radio fools- to judge any real man? (maybe your wife, the poor starving bitch, should unleash some judgement on you)... an accident made you, little man... and venom has maintained you (but will it sustain you- the empty years ahead- alone in the dark at 3am?)... (i feel a little better now... not sure, however, this was quite vitriolic enough...)

will these nixonian bastards never go away? saw allen keyes on "politically incorrect"... redefining (as only one of those smug s.o.b.'s can) hypocracy, this former nixon lapdog actually had the audacity to wax moral about "trust" and "moral decay"... sheesh, will it ever end?

Nope, it probably won't.

One thing is certain about the current "scandal". The majority of American people are not political partisans. People outside of Washington DC care much more about the Dow Jones than Paula Jones. Their is a great deal of respect given to the office of the president by the American people. Most Republicans (except for the far right & the religious right) even respect the office even though they may despise President Clinton. I predict the calls for impeachment will dwindle to whispers. The American people, even though they may dislike the current events, want this behind them. Most believe the press is spending far too much time on this sleaze. Hoop

The whole thing smacks of a "Big Lie" concocted to put Clinton on the defensive. He has to use all his resources and energy in denial. It still all boils down to what Monica will ultimately say, yet she's a confirmed contradictory liar. Hillary seems happy, seems ok with all this, and, if she's so ecstatic, everyone else should back the **** off. The Big Lie of course being the perjury (not the sex). He may have had some sex but so what? None of anyone's business except Hillary and she seems to be having a good time. Bill got what a whole lot of folks want. He got what a whole lot of folks think about a lot (and don't get). He's the President, so his odds of getting it are much more than most. But most folks would have got what he got had they had the opportunity. Most folks don't want to hear all this trash publicly, privately they're digging it. It's the OJ syndrome in a different scenario all over again. Sex instead of death. Both captivate the public. And Clinton's job approval ratings continue to soar, by the time they haul him off in cuffs he should be up around 95% at this rate. And who knows what tomorrow will bring. It continues to move along at lightspeed.

that's the truth... so much convoluted, bull**** reasoning going around, it blows my mind... if i hear one more jackass equate this with watergate, i'm gonna throw up... sheesh, does anyone remember nixon's secret police (the plumbers)? the undermining of the legitimate political process (the cannuck letter, all that don sagretti crap), bribing people for their silence (the slush fund, the watergate seven, etc...), etc... etc... and basically, what we're talking about, is driving a president from office because he allegedly told his alleged girlfriend to lie about an alleged affair... (sheesh!)

A lot of folks would lie about an affair, it's not in the same league as Nixons transgressions. Not even close.

man. this is NOT where I wanted to go...

Comment of the day department, from Sebastian Mendler: The following possible scenario came out of this morning's office discussion: Here's the scene -- Clinton is irate at Saddam's latest chicanery, all the legal troubles, all the arguing with Congress; Hillary's been on the road for a book tour or something, and Clinton is in a sorry state. He begins thinking rash thoughts, looking at that Button on his desk, getting more and more agitated. Maybe he oughta call down some serious destruction on that creep! Yeah! That'd show him! Never mind possible escalations, and all the rest of it -- he starts to get himself really worked up with this idea. Then in walks Monica. "Are you all right, Mr. President? Is there -- anything I can do to help?" A few short minutes later, Clinton is much calmer, more level-headed, less prone to impulsive action -- as a matter of fact, he decides to take a little catnap in his chair while Monica cleans up, covers him with a nearby afghan, and kisses him gently on the head before tiptoeing out of the office. And World War Three has been averted. I mean, the point is, we don't **know**, maybe she's done service not only to the President, but to the entire civilized world...

*lol*

o my... Paul's gotten a bit too involved. *laugh*

decidedly not fair... too many places to go with this one... got brain lock...

NACDLNewsRelease For more information: Jack King Public Affairs (202) 872-8600 ext. 228 media@nacdl.com Prosecutorial Coercion Violates DOJ Guidelines Family Values Imperiled When Mother Forced to Testify Against Child: Need for Parent-Child Privilege Washington, DC, February 13,1998 -- "At no time before has the need for a parent-child privilege' been so clear as when America this week saw Marcia Lewis visibly shaken and trembling after her ordeal before the Washington grand jury convened by Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr," Gerald Lefcourt, President of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers said today. NACDL is calling upon Congress to create a new testimonial privilege to protect confidential communications between parents and children in the interest of preserving family relationships. Prominent New York City white-collar defense counsel Lawrence S. Goldman is in the process of drafting the model for such a statutory privilege on the Association's behalf. Goldman noted: "The unseemly plight of a mother being forced to testify about her daughter's confidential and private conversations -- especially about something so sensitive as consensual sexual activity -- cries out for protective legislation. America is not a police state. If Congress is really concerned about family values, as it should be, it must protect one of those most basic of values -- a child's right to seek parental advice and guidance. Parents and children should be able to reasonably expect that the confidentiality of their private talks will take priority over any prosecutor's purported need to know.'" "Doesn't privacy and decency mean anything anymore?" Goldman added, "Just weigh the public good from a parent-child testimonial privilege against the untold damage from lost trust arising out of compelled parental testimony. We are fools to continue to tolerate this insidious abuse of the judicial system in America." Unlike the Independent Counsel, career federal prosecutors are directed to scrupulously adhere to U.S. Department of Justice guidelines set forth in the United States Attorneys Manual, which provide that "[a]bsent specific justification, the Department will ordinarily avoid seeking to compel the testimony of a witness who is a close family relative of the defendant on trial or of the person upon whose conduct grand jury scrutiny is focusing." "Close relative" is defined as "a spouse, parent, child, grandparent, grandchild or sibling of the witness." "The problem, is, this is a DOJ guideline only, and doesn't protect citizens from maverick prosecutors who may have agendas of their own," Lefcourt said. "Marcia Lewis's collapse in the grand jury room Wednesday more or less proves that the Independent Counsel's Office seems more interested in browbeating and badgering witnesses and their close relatives and friends rather than seeking the truth. Unlike the Independent Counsel, most federal prosecutors know where the line is drawn when it comes to their conduct," Lefcourt added. # # # NACDL is the preeminent organization in the United States advancing the mission of the nation's criminal defense lawyers to ensure justice and due process for persons accused of crime or other misconduct. A professional bar association founded in 1958, NACDL's almost 10,000 direct members - and 80 state and local affiliate organizations with another 28,000 members - include private criminal defense lawyers, public defenders, law professors and judges committed to preserving fairness within America's criminal justice system.

Jack King is someone I talk to on the net fairly often. An *inside* to zippergate! Any questions I should ask jack?

Jordan's up to bat, does that mean Lewinsky's on the on deck circle?

Far as I can tell, Starr has no case. He's given Lewinsky enough time to change her story more than once, which reduces her credibility to nothing. He appears to have leaked enough details of testimony to jeapordize the impartiality of any possible jury. He's blown $30,000,000.00 and change on a 20 year old land deal in which his prime suspects _LOST_ money. His only hope now is to leak enough damaging info to smear Clinton irrevocably. Despite the Right's protests, it _is_ about the sex. Otherwise, why would they focus on it like they do? A coworker of mine in one breath excoriates the president for his moral failings, calling him a "ho", and in the next, swears that she is only concerned about his honesty. This, from a person whose favorite president sold weapons to terrorists and used the profits to fund drug-running anticommunist terrorists in Central America, not to mention provided some aid to Saddam Hussein in his war with Iran Her second favorite president? Rotten Dick. Makes me want to puke. Who cares if Clinton gets a little on the side? Good for him! It's between him, Hilary and his partners. If he gets his job done (which he does) and doesn't hurt anyone, he could screw Socks for all I care. I expect my president to be human. That's all. Don't forget what the Right did to Jimmy Carter, the most Christian and honest President we've had since Lincoln. If honesty was that important to them, Carter would be on Mount Effing Rushmore!

Is this the most expensive blow job in history?

lol!!!!!!!

(DAMN, terry... i wasn't prepared for that)... did you hear the moron on "politically incorrect" other night rattling on about putting reagan on rushmore? i mean, can you believe it?...(and what you said re: the right's treatment of carter was dead-on, adam... it was shameful, and hypocritical... regardless of his shortcomings as president, he deserved far better than he received, esp. from those bastards... as an aside... 1980 was the first presidential election i was able to vote in... was living in mobile, al., at the time, and was a volunteer for ted kennedy... quite a humbling experience, i must say... i think we got maybe 9 votes, state-wide (but 5 of 'em in our precinct... needless to say, we were quite proud of ourselves)... acually, i've never picked a winner (though i did campaign for carter when i was in high school, after my guy was beaten)... anyway, volunteered for mcgovern in '72, mo udall in '76, kennedy in '80, gary hart (ouch!) in '84, and joe biden (double ouch!!) in '88... of course, i finally forego the process in '92 (though my choice would've been bob kerry) and my side (sort of) finally wins...

I think that in politics, like many other areas, we Americans are guilty of too simplistic a view. Two parties - one good, one bad. Two political systems - Communism and Democracy. Conservative and Liberal. Everything in politics is relative - I mean, how else could Andrea Dworkin and Jerry Falwell see eye to eye on pornography? Barry Goldwater and the Lambda Defense Fund? The "winner takes all" system of vote counting has a lot to do with this. A thrid party, even if it has a plurality of the votes, can be diluted by districting so that it cannot win anything - what's wrong with this picture? There was a very interesting article in Mother Jones this month about the concept of proportional representation. There should be something about it at www.motherjones.com. This "black and white" way of looking at things worked fine when we were all hunter/gatherers running around the savannah, but it's a lot riskier when we have weapons that can vaporize cities. I try to look at the candidates for office and base my vote on the job I think they will do, even though it seems I almost always end up voting for Democrats, primarily because I feel that party has a better recent track record in the area of human and civil rights, although if a party of intellectuals ever present d itself, I might change my mind. Here's an interesting proposition for debate: What might happen if the old voting tests were reinstated, but applied fairly. To be eligible to vote, one must prove enough knowledge about American history and government to be able to make an informed decision. I think we'd have a lot of naturalized citizens forming the majority of the electorate. What might that do to the political scene?

As near as I can tell, Carter made no more mistakes than most other presidents during their first terms. He was hamstrung by the Iranian hostage crisis (and I'm still not sure Reagan didn't negotiate the "October Surprise") and the recession, which was primarily the result of Johnson and Rotten Dick's escalation of Vietnam. Has Carter not been convinced by anticommunists in the State department to offer the Shah asylum, we might have avoided the whole hostage situation entirely. Carter also committed the cardinal sin in American politics, he addressed the American people honestly and pointed out the problems he saw (that whole "Malaise" speech).

yes, the "malaise" speech was a crucial error... compounded by some remarkably bad p.r. emanating from a series of gaffs (the hunting thing, where he was chased by a duck or something, the jogging thing, where he was photographed looking terribly weak and unpresidential)... the decision re: the shah was obviously a terrible miscalculation... but it was compounded, if i remember correctly, by the most terrible error of all (the ending of cia payoffs to iranian ayotollahs, which had been keeping the shah in power for years... carter thought the practice outrageous, an unconscionable subversion of the will of a foreign people... for a president, such idealism might be considered rather naive)... more than anything, though, i must agree that carter was a victim of a great many circumstances beyond his control (soaring energy prices chief among them)... however, in spite of all of these problems- in spite, even, of the high inflation and interest rates- carter may well still have won the election if he'd been a better politician... reagan was eminently beatable that year, and the election was still remarkably close, con- sidering... carter was not well-liked within his party, and was not able to prevent the primary challenge by kennedy, which a projection of strength (mixed with some old-fashioned political gamesmanship) would've prevented... and- idealism aside- all the good intentions in the world mean jack, if you can't get elected...

oh, re:"proposition"... have heard this idea come up time to time (and believe me i sympathize with the frustration that drives it)... yet... enticing as it is... it is not realistic, i think, to revoke someone's franchise based upon (theoretically) arbitrary standards of awareness... the basic criterion for participating in a participatory democracy must remain a willingness to participate, along, of course, with the inherent privileges attending the writer of the check (cannot expect someone paying taxes to forego their voice in how the monies are spent, no matter the estimation of their fitness to do so)...

I myself don't necessarily approve of "poll tests", I was just floating a What-if. Let's just say that the Supreme Court ruled in the mid-sixties that poll tests were constitutional, but they had to be applied equally to all citizens. How might a policy of that nature have affected American politics in the 70's-90's?

well, first off... mississippi would've been left with about a dozen eligible voters...

Let's leave my family out of this....

lol!

Hmmmm. Trent Lott's statements, combined with the death of Jim McDougal and the desire of Jim Brock for some sort of redemption, indicate to me that, barring the discovery of a photograph of Clinton on the Grassy Knoll in Dallas, this farce may be winding down. I hope so - at my job, CNN is on 24-7, and I'm sick of hearing right-wing lackeys blather about it. The disloyalty shown by George Stephanopolis (sp?) is discouraging, also. I mean, I don't expect him to lay his life down for Clinton, but he could at least say, "I don't think this is anyone's business but Bill, Hilary and Monica's." Clinton is the man responsible for almost all of the fame Stephanopolis enjoys today, and if he had any bolls at all, he would remember that before he shoots his mouth off. I can tolerate just about anything from people, but disloyalty is just, well, tacky.

Yeah, I've been thinking that about Stephanopoulos also. Just cause he's a supposed objective tv commentator now doesn't mean he has to be a turncost.

I don't like tattletales. While objectively, I understand the need for the proper authorities to know when crimes have been committed, and recognize that narcing is a necessary evil, I don't like it. I don't know - if I saw a murder committed, I would definitely come forward, but I have a real problem with people like Linda Tripp & Ken Starr who seem to devote their lives to ferreting out the nasty secrets of anyone more successful than they are. I believe privacy is perhaps the most sacred right we ha e as human beings, and I don't like anything that violates that, for me or anyone else.

well-said...

turncost sb turncoat

uhhh, what?

The Paul Jones case is dismissed by Judge Susan Wright in Arkansas. Not an April Fools joke, it really happened.

now if only ken starr can be (summarily) dismissed... saw him (starr) few minutes ago, on the news... (ever notice that he drools? never trust a guy with wet lips)... anyway, pretty consistent with the conservative line i've been hearing past 24 hours (saw dick armey, several other idiots blathering about it last night)... brought to mind the immortal observation of hunter thompson, few years ago- "in a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king"...

from the Spring 1998 issue of The Red Penn The Newsletter of the Socialsit Party of Pennsylvania Should Clinton be Impeached? So far President Bill Clinton has been accused of having extra-marital affairs with Geniffer Flowers and Monica Lewinsky, and for propositioning Paula Jones and Kathleen Willey. And there are still others he is accused of having sex with or asking for sex. We don't know if these allegations are true or not. Some of the members of our party believe the President and think these women are lying, motivated by money and a right-wing conspiracy to get the President. Others of us believe that the sheer numbers of allegations coming out tend to lend credence to the stories of these women. But even if they are true, should Clinton be impeached for them, or for lying about them and asking others to lie for him? The Paula Jones suit against the President was dismissed April 1, for failing to prove that it was truly a case of sexual harassment. She was not assaulted, and allegedly it was only a one time event, not a continuing pattern of harassment. It is difficult to see how anyone has been harmed other than Clinton's own reputation and marriage. The Constitution has not been subverted by these alleged acts, nor has the public truly been hurt. Even if he is lying and asking others to lie to protect his reputation, it doesn't seem to be in the same league as the Nixon coverup in the Watergate scandal. There are legitimate reasons to dislike Clinton - his betrayal of gays and lesbians with the "don't ask, don't tell" policy in the military, and his betrayal of the poor with welfare "reform," among others. But it is doubtful that he has done anything worthy of an impeachment.

CLINTON DEPLOYS VOWELS TO BOSNIA Cities of Sjlbvdnzv, Grzny to Be First Recipients Before an emergency joint session of Congress yesterday, President Clinton announced US plans to deploy over 75,000 vowels to the war-torn region of Bosnia. The deployment, the largest of its kind in American history, will provide the region with the critically needed letters A,E,I,O and U, and is hoped to render countless Bosnian names more pronounceable. "For six years, we have stood by while names like Ygrjvslhv and Tzlynhr and Glrm have been horribly butchered by millions around the world," Clinton said. "Today, the United States must finally stand up and say `Enough.' It is time the people of Bosnia finally had some vowels in their incomprehensible words. The US is proud to lead the crusade in this noble endeavour." The deployment, dubbed Operation Vowel Movement by the State Department, is set for early next week, with the Adriatic port cities of Sjlbvdnzv and Grzny slated to be the first recipients. Two C-130 transport planes, each carrying over 500 24-count boxes of "E's," will fly from Andrews Air Force Base across the Atlantic and airdrop the letters over the cities. Citizens of Grzny and Sjlbvdnzv eagerly await the arrival of the vowels. "My God, I do not think we can last another day," Trszg Grzdnjkln, 44, said. "I have six children and none of them has a name that is understandable to me or to anyone else. Mr. Clinton, please send my poor, wretched family just one `E.' Please." Said Sjlbvdnzv resident Grg Hmphrs, 67: "With just a few key letters, I could be George Humphries. This is my dream." The airdrop represents the largest deployment of any letter to a foreign country since 1984. During the summer of that year, the US shipped 92,000 consonants to Ethiopia, providing cities like Ouaouoaua, Eaoiiuae, and Aao with vital, life-giving supplies of L's, S's and T's.

lol!

WASHINGTON, DC--On Tuesday, Congress approved the Americans With No Abilities Act, sweeping new legislation that provides benefits and protection for more than 135 million talentless Americans. The act, signed into law by President Clinton shortly after its passage, is being hailed as a major victory for the millions upon millions of U.S. citizens who lack any real skills or uses. "Roughly 50 percent of Americans--through no fault of their own--do not possess the talent necessary to carve out a meaningful role for themselves in society," said Clinton, a longtime ANA supporter. "Their lives are futile hamster-wheel existences of unrewarding, dead-end busywork: xeroxing documents written by others, fulfilling mail-in rebates for Black & Decker toaster ovens, and processing bureaucratic forms that nobody will ever see. Sadly, for these millions of nonabled Americans, the American dream of working hard and moving up through the ranks is simply not a reality." Under the Americans With No Abilities Act, more than 25 million important-sounding "middle man" positions will be created in the white-collar sector for nonabled persons, providing them with an illusory sense of purpose and ability. Mandatory, non-performance-based raises and promotions will also be offered to create a sense of upward mobility for even the most unremarkable, utterly replaceable employees. The legislation also provides corporations with incentives to hire nonabled workers, including tax breaks for those who hire one non-germane worker for every two talented hirees. Finally, the Americans With No Abilities Act also contains tough new measures to prevent discrimination against the nonabled by banning prospective employers from asking such job-interview questions as, "What can you bring to this organization?" and "Do you have any special skills that would make you an asset to this company?" "As a nonabled person, I frequently find myself unable to keep up with co-workers who have something going for them," said Mary Lou Gertz, who lost her position as an unessential filing clerk at a Minneapolis tile wholesaler last month because of her lack of notable skills. "This new law should really help people like me." With the passage of the Americans With No Abilities Act, Gertz and millions of other untalented, inessential citizens can finally see a light at the end of the tunnel. Said Clinton: "It is our duty, both as lawmakers and as human beings, to provide each and every American citizen, regardless of his or her lack of value to society, some sort of space to take up in this great nation."

With Clinton scheduled to testify before the Grand Jury on August 17th it would appear all this is coming to some kind of final showdown. Starr is engaged in two processes here: a. the criminalization of lying b. the criminalization of sex There is a very interesting article in the New Yorker this week about this ( I don't have it handy to cite) in which they point out that there was once a distinction about lies according to degree of importance. Lying about having sex with someone is obviously on a different level than, say, lying about stockpiling biological weapons. This makes it easy for Starr to set a trap for Clinton by having Lewinski's testimony first and "setting him up".

from Dennis Wilen mailto://thevoidmstr@well.com monica as if by warhol, leictenstein, etc.: if the president bubba/starr transcripts were chat room transcripts, they'd look like this (javascript) this is absolutely brilliant, imho, not only in the technical sense, but the perfect choice for the presentation, and hysterically well written. tell yer friends!

Lewinsky and Clinton have shown What Kaczynski must surely have known: That an intern is better Than a bomb in a letter Given the choice of how to be blown.

That feedbag simulated aol chat room has a particpant named algore2k

Is Monica really that ignorant? Could she be a set up to splash Bill with mud? Does conspiracy come to mind? Are Grand Jury proceedings not supposed to be private? Wait till the investigation of Ken Starr's group is done. Will it take 30-40 million to find out who leaked information from his office. Will we find out? Probably not, sad to say. Somebody has commited a felony in this mess and maybe they should look at the prosecutors office. Let's slap Ken on the hand, tisk, tisk. Then let foolish politicians toss the president to impeachment for extra marital fooling around. Government is out again, politics runs amuck. God help the U.S. of A. United we stand.....Divided we fall !

Hey, welcome Tom! What part of the world do you hail from?

I hail from a little state called Texas and in a hamlet named Austin. Every heard of them ? {If not, I have heard of it refered to as "god's" country) Keeping with the subject of the Clinton, why are so many intent on tearing down our president? Would not a little more positive, constructive, productive support from the masses produce possibly better results? I wonder why Clinton doesn't visit Austin, except for $ 1,000 plate dinners? What ever happened to government being accessable to the "people"?

Now there's one thing you can't accuse Clinton off. The man is so accessable to the people, he literally gets into their mouths, so to speak....

Hey, I live in that little hamlet too, Tom. Glad you're joining us, (hope you're joining us).

You Texans seem to attract one another like a bunch of flies!! Wonder what that makes the spring....

from Time online: Here's the deal the White House would dearly love to get away with: President Clinton cops a plea of perjury, Congress censures (rather than impeaching) him in return, and the nation moves on. It's a possibility implicitly if not officially recognized by top Democrats, who finally seem to be reading from the same script again. Tom Daschle and Dick Gephardt both declared their impatience with Clinton's legal "hairsplitting" Monday; Gephardt called on Congress to use "common sense for the good of the countr ," while Daschle spoke of a "prompt, appropriate conclusion in the public interest." White House spokesman Jim Kennedy, for his part, made it clear that only a thin line of lawyers stood between the President and an admission that he committed perjury. "No legalisms," said Kennedy, "should obscure the fact that it was wrong."

The Lewinsky business is yuksies, but, $hit, aren't Americans used to anything? In places like France people would react like the Yankees do with Clinton, only if the president DIDn't have affairs etc. etc.

The American media and the prudish GOP Congress are *hard up* and starved for an issue. Europeans must this is a joke. He's definitely trying to redefine the definition of sex. By the way, our new user Kristen has traveled in Switzerland and has some interesting comments about her travels there.

Has she posted them anywhere?

Not yet, ask her in babes! I think she's at work right now. Man, our house a/c went out and I had to order a new thermostat tonight. I need to ask her to call her dad, who's and energy specialist, and get a recommendation for an a/c repair man. I order a bi-directional X10 thermostat which is operated via remote and reports back temperatures. And it has remote wireless sensing. Ordered by next day air tonight. Eventually, you can add a sensor to read the pool temperature. I expect it will pay for itself in a few months. Luckily, for Kristen, she has her own window unit.

on a different note... the most gratifying occurrence to come from this... um, whatever the hell this clinton mess is... must surely be the oh so sudden demise of the boy speaker from georgia (gingrich con)... he will not go quietly, i'm sure, but at least he will go, and that is a good thing, i suppose... does anyone else have the feeling there's more here than meets the eye? (not to newt-boy... to his sudden resignation, etc., i mean)... anyway, his is among the most twisted and cynical of careers, in a town that reinvents twistedness and cynicism as rote... he's lee atwater (without a tumor to blame it all on... or a sense of rhythm, for that matter)... a fat-ass scoop of vanilla that accepts blow jobs from his best friends wife (now there's a lady crying for help), tells his wife he's divorcing her while she's in a cancer ward fighting for her life, abandons his children (his ex-wife's church took collections to assist in their care- while ol' newt was a congressman)... etc., etc.... while lecturing the rest of us about morality and responsibility... the most hideous gingrich-con of all, though, is this idea of Newt-As-Revolutionary... newt as jefferson or something (or is that non-pc now? to mention tj in a favorable context? a subject for another day)... this idea is patently false, and history will bear that out whenever it burps ol' newt's name (which won't be often)... cannot understand how the media blathers on with this nonsense like it's incontravertable fact (were bob taft or richard nixon or joe mccarthy revolutionaries, too? they also were mean hypocrites that 'changed the political landscape' by exploiting the fears/prejudices/paronoia of people that should've known better)... beneath the hyperbole (and there are rolls of it all about him), gingrich is an old-fashioned opportunist, and his ideas are of the reconstituted variety... jefferson said it better (he said everything better)... "(i am against) awing the human mind to a distrust of it's own vision... & to repose implicitly on that of others; to go backwards instead of forwards to look for improvement; to believe that government, religion, morality, & every other science were in the highest perfection in ages of the darkest ignorance, and that nothing can ever be devised more perfect than what was established by our forefathers." inventing new words, applying new motivations, charting different courses for achieving the same (previously occupied) landscape is reactive, and those adhering to it reactionaries, no matter the spin- and that's how newt-boy will be remembered (which ain't much... such is the sad fate of that ilk)... anyway, good riddance, newt... (jim wright is smiling now)...

the impeachment has happened. anyone care to discuss the implications of this? will there be a trial? a deal made? or will the president resign? is this a case of the people punishing the president for his crimes, or is it just republicans out to get the president for whatever reason?

think i'm leaving the states none to soon... this wave of hypocracy enveloping the political debate in this country is revolting to me... politics isn't fun anymore... it is mean, crude, corrupt- look, i'm not a particular fan of bill clinton's... but this just beats all... this generation of (mainly) white (mainly) southern male political hacks (lott, gingrich, armey, faircloth, et al) is representative of a broad prevalent mean-spirited judgementalism among their lookalikes/soundalikes in every walk of american life... i deal with these bastards all the time... know them to be what they are, reactionaries and bigots and the lowest form of hypocrites... it's just sickening, and it's gonna get worse

Did you catch the Democratic walkout? I was putting up an antenna today and just caught a glimpse of the Democrats walking out of the House of Reps. Since they didn't get their censure motion. And I was heading to Radio Shack when Livingston asked Clinton to resign, then a chorus of Democrats shouted "you resign!!!". Then he did. The Republicans are in frenzied, disarray.

this is from an article written by claire douglas, from this sunday's washington post.... (can anyone find trent lott or tom delay within this description?) "...The mostly Republican Senate, meanwhile, plays the puer's opposite--the senex. This is the dried-up old man (of any age) who has often let life pass him by and who has settled for mental constructs, laws and generalities instead; he pontificates rather than feels or acts. The senex comes from a father-dominated household in which he is instilled with rigid tenets of law and duty, and he over-identifies with his father's world. Above all, he armors himself against any awareness of what he is missing. T e senex becomes a master of projection--what he refuses to recognize in himself he decries in others. His greatest sexual arousal comes from outrage at others' sexuality, and he displays a pornographer's interest in examining what are, in his eyes, the delicious minutiae of others' sins. Anyone who gives up his life to hard work and duty risks, at some point, the problems of the senex--the greatest of which is a rigid adherence to the letter of the law and a lack of empathy. Hatred becomes a respectable virtue; an inability to love becomes a common failing. In this light, there is something almost familiar about the situation in Washington. Waves of senex energy have occasionally swept this country in the past. The witch hunts of Salem were fueled by it, as was former senator Joseph McCarthy's use of his office as a bully pulpit to conduct a witch hunt of his own. One man fueled by righteousness (now Kenneth Starr) can focus this energy and sweep many of this type along with him in an orgy of investigation of others' wrongdoing..."

Soon it will be over and maybe the country can focus on some real issues.

Unless Ken Starr actually has the nerve to indict Clinton. Is this guy for real? Where the hell does he get off? I mean, he's assaulted attorney-client privelege, supoenaed a bookstore for records of a private citizen's purchases, forced a mother to testify against her own daughter, and now he thinks he can indict a sitting president? I think we need to seriously reconsider the Independent Counsel Statute before we move much further as a nation. Starr in no way had the prosecutorial experience neede to serve in the OIC, and we won't even go into his numerous conflicts of interest. Don't get me wrong - I think we need some investigative body that is not beholden to the individual they are investigating, but the law as it stands now provides no restraint for an out-of-control maniac like Starr.

Well said. This guy is clearly out of control. Like Bill Maher said, when Starr and the Republicans finally get Clinton in the electric chair and get ready to pull the switch, Clinton's job approval rating will finally hit 100%.

I hate to say it, but as long as the R's are digging into Clinton's sex life, I'm all for Larry Flynt exposing their hypocrisy. The only difference between what he's doing and what LuciAnne Goldberg is doing is that she's a "literary" agent, and he's a pornography publisher. I say that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I still wonder about Ken Starr - anyone hacked his internet access? Wonder what dirty sites he looks at....

is the tobacco connection lost on the news media? if anything smacks of conspiracy (as is constantly alluded to, but never seriously explored), it is that thread... bill clinton is the most serious enemy the tobacco companies have ever encountered in the white house, and he came into power at the most inoppertune moment imagineable (for them... coincident with all those damning files of evidence that began falling into researcher's laps a few years ago)... clinton has been accused (often, rightly) of lacking political convictions... but i think it is safe to say that he genuinely hates the tobacco companies, feels real passionate anger about the damage they have wrought upon millions upon millions of human beings this century... the original independent counsel, robert fiske, a moderate republican of some reputation, was viewed with distrust by the rabid element that has held the republican party captive the past couple of decades... the appointment of starr, a tobacco whore, came at the behest (upon none other than the striped chief justice, william renquist) of... jesse helms and launch faircloth... senators from north carolina... (the cradle of tobacco whores)... along the way, after the lewinsky business began to unfold, the tobacco connection was evident in several of the unseemly interest conflicts (among referring/advising/manipulating attorneys) along the way... now, i'm not claiming there is evidence of 'conspiracy'... (nor even that any exists, at least in any proveable sense)... however, inferentially, one could come to this conclusion... and the evidence, it seems to me, is just as sound here as it is for any proof of obstruction of justice or perjury committed by clinton...

let's see... bob livingston, henry hyde, newt gingrich are serial adulterers... bob barr is not only that, but a subjorner of abortion, as well... and tom delay is a perjurer (as are william renquist and clarence thomas)... (reminds me of a scripture- "woman, where are your accusers?")

-except, of course, for the fact that this bunch doesn't have the sense of shame to slink away, unlike the hypocrites christ was referencing...

I know, not relevant to present discussions, but... "I believe that this country's policies should be heavily biased in favor of nondiscrimination." --President Bill

This was too priceless to pass up. The Rolling Stone printed this notice today on their website: CORRECTION: Due to a transcription error, the words "don't ask" were printed in the latest issue as "dumbass" in our interview with President Clinton. We regret the error. I'm not kidding, I didn't make this up. Honest. http://entertainment.msn.com/music/features/clinton_interview.asp

Did Clinton free Leonard Peltier?