Shouldn't we be encouraging our hosts to make the most of their conferences? so, are you, Mike? *wink*

sorry, i don't catch you. if you check out the babes conference, then you'll se that it has a banner graphic, and relevant info in the banner text. as for the other stuff i mentioned, i think that would be better decided on, thrashed out and devised here, between all of us.

i think that's great! this gray background can be quite dreary. besides, a help-pack would save a lot of annoying questions and pestering (not me, i would never do that!)

so, who's gonna write it?

You?

Do we need a host conference? I'd be glad to carefully start extending more system power to hosts, so they could control more system wide parameters like backgrounds. I'm not that enamored of our current background, a plain white one would be fine.

i think there should be a host conf., yeah. as for everyone having their own background: is that a good idea? not much of a "corporate image", is it, for everyone to do their own thing. one thing i like about the (*cough*) WELL is that all of the conference headers are similar to each other; but hey, it's one thing to discuss, i guess. the problem with a host conference, though, is that we'd all just be in it anyway, and start posting the standard rubbish that we come up with :-)

man, if this place needs a "corporate image" to succeed, I'm outta here... me and the corporate thing do not get along and all I'd do is buck the system and cause everyone grief...

mike: rubbish? but the host conference, i kinda agree, cuz everybody would be in it (non-host types)

I just want the knowledge and means to make Art more interesting and visual, nothing more. At the moment I find it a little dry there - everyone talks about art, and that gets boring, I know. I want us to be able to share things there, to really interact without getting bored.

hehe...i knew the corporate image phrase would make you all freak. it was meant in the context of the Spring having a "face". there's much to be said, in Human Computer Interaction, for system interfaces to have similar features and to work in the same way. that doesn't mean that there isn't scope for creativity, but that that creativity is managed in the most accessible way. that's why OS manufacturers have style guides that they send out to developers. if everyone goes off and tries to re-invent the wheel, then you get thirty different wheels, all of which behave differently. the host conference could be restricted to hosts only without difficulty.

wow...the first time i've experienced slippage on the Spring :-) it must be getting popular.

ok. let's show how to put a conference header in. First of all, you need to go to the art conf, riette, and click the "You are a host in this conference" link. This will take you to the conference configuration section. Scroll just over half way down the page, and you get to "Conference header for WWW (only):" and a text entry box. In this box you can type whatever you like; generally, an introduction to the conference, the name of the conference host, and an invite for people to introduce themselves in the intro topic is standard, along with whatever else you like. Babes, for example, along with GenX and Drool (and others) have a graphic in their header. The text entry box will accept HTML codes, which are the control tags which make up web pages - controlling different fonts, colours etc. the tag is used for inserting graphics into a web page. for example, the Babes graphic uses the command: <img border=0 src=http://www.griggs.demon.co.uk/images/babes_small.gif> border=0 means that the image doesn't have a nasty coloured border around it src="..." tells the Spring where the image is coming from. the Babes header is stored in my own web space at www.griggs.demon.co.uk/, in the images/ directory, and is called "babes_small.gif". It is probably a good idea for terry to set you up with a Spring shell account, which means that you can store any images you need in a www.spring.net directory. you'd best get in touch with him via e-mail to do that. and that's it for that bit. i'll leave it to wer to tell you how to change your background colours/images, since i still can't get it to work!

whoops. that little box should read <img> :-)

And how are we supposed to work out these cryptic codes? I think that Art is only going to gain a bit of interest and momentum with the help of graphics - such a dry thing to merely be talking about people who are ten thousand times richer than we are. I'd like for people like us to be able to share their art there in the form of images, which we can then all discuss - not criticise (spelling????), DISCUSS. ANYTHING from little sketches drawn on the loo to stickmen. We're a creative, lively bunch, and that's what I want to get working in the art conference. I don't want people to feel they can only dare go to art if they're little Michelangelos - I'm certainly not. Pencil sketches, however crooked are as interesting to me as any big painting, because it tells you something about the head behind the hand that drew it. And I think it will just be great fun and funny - don't want it to be dry and serious ALL the time. Those who don't have scanners, should be able to send their images to those who hav them, and we should then all make the effort to get them into the conference. Obviously I will keep it tidy, by removing old images, thereby creating space for new images, because it should be ever changing and interesting. Am I being too ambitious? And, Mike, if these codes and things are too difficult for a person like me who has ideas, but no experience, can I mail them to you or Wer, and then you guys can stick them in for me? Would that be a very time consuming process for you guys? Because I don't want to be a pain in the @r$e and waste your time.

pretty easy and no problem...

your ideas for the conference sound great, riette. not too ambitious at all, since there is no such thing. putting the images in is no problem, really, and if you have a few goes you'll find it gets easier. Why don't you try it? Create a test topic in art, and then link to some images. you could first of all just put the babes picture in the test topic. just type in the exact same line as i posted above, and it should appear. then you could try it with some other images. yo'ure welcome to link to some on my web space e.g. http://www.griggs.demon.co.uk/spring/newlook/images/blueperson_lores.jpg http://www.griggs.demon.co.uk/images/mike_cr.jpg don't be afraid to experiment, and don't be afraid to screw up!

thanks so much, Mike - I'll try!

here, i'll find an html guide that i use and post the site...it might take me a bit, ok, here you go: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2090 and for colors: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2919/hex.html these are all connected to a friend's site. go ahead and bookmark 'em, they've helped me out a lot!

Mr. C. just told me that one needs html to do pictures. I mean, like why could he not tell me this last night while I sat struggling, and he was grumbling about my not coming to bed? hey????? This is just so damned frustrating! But anyway, so I'll get the html and see from there. Mike, may I in the mean time post ideas/images to you with suggestions, and can we discuss them, and make them happen? Please, please, please? I really want to wake Art out of its deep, boring sleep.

wer, i see that you changed the background colour in babes; thanks for that. i've altered it now to a nice green, which I hope will go down OK with everyone. now i would like to get my own wallpaper image in there. i tried entering: define wallpaper 'http://www.griggs.demon.co.uk/spring/babes/bground.jpg' but it doesn't seem to be working. any hints?

no...but I'll fix it tomorrow from work... I have to cheat and use someone else's name and password to put it in the yapp-icons directory...

well, it might be nice if you could detail the procedure for me, and for all the other hosts checking in.

Hopefully the other hosts will have a clue about any of this . . . don't know why computers have to be so complicated!

okay...you ftp it into usr/bbs/www/gifs but not a lot of people have write access in there, that's why I said I have to cheat to get it in... once it's in there, you place the following line in your rc file for your conf, replacing the word example with the name of your background image define wallpaper 'example.gif' that's it...the whole thing (well, make sure you name it uniquely, so it doesn't accidentaly replace a button or something else important...)

WWWWWOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAa!!! That's defenitely not French! Russian perhaps?

Mike: or for your babes picture, which is now in the yapp-icons directory (or usr/bbs/www/gifs) define wallpaper 'babeback.jpg' if you want to "rem" out a statement in your rc file, place a # in front, like so: #define wallpaper 'nada.gif'

so what's the cheat to get write access in /usr/bbs/www/gifs then?

no kidding, i have an ftp program, how do i get a password and stuff?

Just ask. Or better yet, email me with your desired username and password.

to look at the pictures already in there, go to http://www.spring.net/yapp-icons/ for ease of use, I have been naming the backgrounds I use as foodback, restback, genxback, babeback... it's easy to tell what they are for, and don't overlap any of the naming conventions that Terry is already using...if you'd prefer to put things in your own folder in there, there's two already, I have trial-and-errored that out, also... as to the "cheat" I do...Terry gave me another person's name and password to fix something in one of my other sites on here, so when I use it in the yapp-icons directory, I'm using it outside the context in which it was given to me, and thus cheating...even if I do have permission from Terry to do so

thanks, terry, it's in the mail *smile*

well, technical jiggery-pokery is one thing, but there's also the subject of actually getting people in to one's conference. I invited Nan, the host of Drool (one of the most successful confs) to contribute here; i'm not sure if she'll check in, but she did reply to me directly via e-mail, which I'll post the relevant parts of next:

Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 02:22:27 -0400 To: "Mike Griggs" From: Nan Subject: Re: Creating a host help-pack Here are the things that have been most successful at Drool: 1) I spend a good deal of time poking around and recruiting people. For example, I'll do a search for a particular actor, say Kevin Costner. I visit each of the pages dedicated to him and email its creator, telling her about Spring, etc. More often than not, they come by...even if only to lurk. 2) I visit other, more general, discussion boards. If I see someone mentions a particular actor, I'll invite her to participate at Spring. However, I only do this at places where I know some people and feel comfortable. I don't want to make it seem as though I'm hijacking people. Just want to let them know they have a place to "play" in addition to the ones they regularly visit. I'm sure this would work with other Conferences (definitely would work with Babes). For example, if we were talking about the Motorcycle Conference, I would try some of the many Harley-Davidson and Kawasaki sites looking for friendly, talkative, obsessed (;-p) people. Perhaps that's what makes Drool so popular--most of us are obsessed (in a cheerfully harmless way, of course). It makes each drooler visit the boards 4 and 5 times per day to see what someone else posted. 3) Photos are a crucial part of Drool. If you post a really nice photo, it's like dropping a bomb in the middle of the room. A whole influx of messages show up in response to something beautiful (heaven bless the creator of PhotoShop). I change the picture at the main page of the Conference every 3-4 weeks (or sooner if the participants complain about it) ;-p 4) If I can post some news about an actor (release date of his next film, word on his next project, juicy gossip, etc.) it starts a conversation that will last a week or more. Fortunately, many of the participants are even more obsessed than I and they'll hunt for information and save me the trouble ;-) 5) I try to get acquainted with the people who create pages dedicated to specific actors. If they give me permission, I'll post a link to their page at Drool. In return, they sometimes send their friends to Spring. Of course, all these things take time. Who sleeps? ;-p

Umm...how does one scribble an individual response in a topic?

Umm...how does one scribble an individual response in a topic? i just killed an entire topic by accident by hoping that pressing the Kill button might give me some options. Nopee :)

uh-oh!

you have to turn it on in the appropriate templates... it is currently disabled... I am learning how to reconfigure the templates, and have figured it out enough to prevent crashes when I change something...with Terry's permission of course, what features would everyone like to see available?

what the heck is a template? (besides the obvious) what does it control and such? (hi wer)

these pages are generated by a program...different parts (the templates) are put together to make each page (which can also be a templates)... for example, to turn scribble back on, I think it takes a definition, and changes to one to three templates...

how does one view the template for their conference? (i'm not quite sure i get the whole thing, but i'm trying-know what a template is but not how they work)

oh yeah, love the bit you put in poetry (where it talks about being the host)! (and i know it was you)

I wondered how long it would take you to find that... that is an example of redefining something... all conference templates are the same... all topic templates are the same... customizations are made in each conferences rc files... I will have to go look up the name for the confs and topics... I don't remember their names, just how to find them...

(i noticed it the other day) then i went and looked at the rc file (because you had mentioned it somewhere to someone) and saw the definition, but didn't understand it at all--like, what does the fw mean and how did it know to fill in the blanks?

fw is short for fair witness...in the main rc files it is defined as host, I was curious if you could redefine it for each conf, so I tried it in genx first, then did it to your's in poetry... how it knows? it is part of the program...each template is regular html filled in with variables (for the web interface, anyway!) and/or commands, each variable is either a definition or a sub-template...

wow....used to know how to do basic programming involving variables, but this new stuff, *whew* am learning a lot, though, and still fool around at my site just to practice the applications...

think of the templates as mad libs...the variables are blank but defined...

btw, what username did you send Terry for your shell account?

bayou (and, did ftp a gif, but can't seem to bring it up in poetry)

(hey, i remember mad libs!)

just a second...I'm gonna go see what you did, okay?

ok, *waiting in agony*

one, the url is wrong... secondly, mine says that the directory bayou doesn't exist, so number one doesn't matter yet...

huh? it's bayou@www.spring.net (the ftp worked, anyway) so, now what?

check your e-mail...

t'anks, will do. hey, i took the mideival occupation test and guess what? my analysis was the same as yours! great minds think alike, huh? scary or what?

scary...and what!

ok, now you check your email *grin*

you should have two more... and, already did...

besides the two i read? alright, lemme go see....

ok, whatever it is didn't make it there yet. hey, i'm sleepy, you? i'll chat with you tomorrow (will wait for closing remarks)

see you tomorrow, then...will see what I can find out about bayou for you...sweet dreams!

thanks, g'night!

Wolf, do you have a public_html directory in bayou? if not, you need one...put your picture in it and use www.spring.net/~bayou/nameofpicture.* in your url... not the actual path...sorry earlier, I was sippin' Hennessy while trying to help...bad move, although I feel good... so, ignore my e-mail I mentioned above...you'll know it when you see it...

SEE, Autumn?!?!?! Russian, all russian!!! Ftp, bayou, html - sounds like a sick R.E.M. song!

What wer said. Some time you can stick an index.html file in your public_html directory and have a webpage which would resolve as http://www.spring.net/~bayou

ok. now how do i create that directory? (public_html)

did it for ya...somehwere in your ftp program it should say create directory...

dunno, it did have change directory. have to look again. thanks, wer....

So, Wer, how am I going to get images into Art? I have no e-mail, I have no idea about html, and I've got a homepage programme with ftp, but which speaks English, not html.

yoiu have no email? what happened to that?

I managed to break it somehow. I am able to send mail, but only sometimes, and I can't receive anything. And webshuttle seems totally uninterested in fixing it. So I'm buggered, right?

Riette, go get yourself an e-mail account at http://www.hotmail.com/ it's free, you can send attachments, you just have to check your e-mail over the web (and put up with all the ads...) I'll keep working on your other difficulties and have some more suggestions soon...

Done it, Wer. Strange lay-out, I'll have to get used to it. I'll have a look tomorrow to see if I can work it - right now I can't make anything of it.

Oh, my address is now riettewalton@hotmail.com.

Thank you.

I email her at riette@www.spring.net and that forwards to her hotmail address.

You do? You did? I haven't received anything yet, Terry, but I shall be looking forward (im)patiently. �smile�

It was just a general comment that your spring email worked, not that I had sent a specific email to that address. It just easier for me to type elm riette than remember your native email address.

Don't worry, Terry, I wasn't being serious - is it that difficult to tell? Oh, by the way, I've mailed Jeffk now. And how have you been?

Great, we had a wonderful time on the lake this weekend and a nice dinner party at Sam Hills on the lake. We consumed massive quantities of liquids. I took Kristin and she got a dinner prize for her ankle tatoo. Fun weekend.

Sounds good! How does Kristin's tatoo look? Flower?

you host types can now customize the horizontal rules in your confs, just define hr in your rc file (change currently only affects the main(browse) page in your conference...) for an example of one way to do it, see the poetry conference... it's rc line reads define hr 'img src="url of the image file*"' *in this case that url would be http://www.spring.net/~spew/art/11.gif I wasn't sure what all the quotation marks would do to the link in here...

redid the whole define hr thing... for a plain horizontal rule, define hr '

duh, I should have said define hr '<hr>' sorry, web types! (although the post above would be correct for telnetters...)

A new resource on our site: http://www.spring.net/help/sysop.html

File Not Found The requested URL /help/sysop.html was not found on this server. help!

try this instead, Mike, and navigate from there... http://www.spring.net/help/

found it

Finally! I thought you'd never be able to reach...

Is this the place for host questions??? If not, let me know where? Anyway, how do I delete specific messages without killing the entire topic? Nan used to go in and remove messages if people asked or if the material was deemed offensive. So where do I go and what do I do?

Terry will have to give you the specifics on scribbling as I haven't practied enough to know the command...

actually, just went and played and figured it out... if I was a host in this conference, and wanted to scribble this response, the url would be http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/scribble/porch/32/93

Thanks, I'll go check it out for Drool.

Thank you, William. It worked and so eazzzzy!!

Yeah!

Something I'd love to do or see be done - making those February 7, 2036-dated responses go away - anywhere, I don't care. I think they're just jamming things up and making it hard for new people to load. William's directions for deleting responses work great but in this case, I want the whole thing - response and header - to go away. Any suggestions?

Kaylene has a program we can run that cures the 2036 problem.

But Heide, you are only referring to the posts that comment about the 2036 problem? There are good messages out there with good dates. Guys, any progress with setting up a subdirectory or account for me to upload pictures? Is that what is referred to as a public HTML file or is that something else? BTW, William I sent you a password. What is that for?

i'm 100!! woohoo!!!!