???

who will, then? and why are you leaving this conference?

Topic 10 of 33 [philosophy]: Selfishness Response 112 of 119: Tim Guenther (TIM) * Fri, Dec 4, 1998 (11:32) * 19 lines If we were dealing with an isolated incident here, and only an attack on me, I could agree with you a little. I could overlook the fact that the response was totally inappropriate for the discussion. I could call it an honest mistake. But the attacks have been continuous and made with considerable finesse, so that it is hard to look at one occurrence and call it an attack, however, if you look at all the responses made by wer and ray prior to 0000 thursday, and After the 10th of november, and look at the new topics started by them during that time, a true and ugly picture emerges. So, Jim look at all the topics in screwed, sex, food, art, philosophy, music, restaurants, porch, science, environment, austin, vc, education, web, and computer. look at how often responses were inappropriate when dealing with Riette or myself. As against dealing with anyone else. Look at the new topics created in screw during that time. Inappropriate? Maybe not. Excessive? definitely. One more thing. Riette is not the only person to leave the conferences for this reason. Kristin left for the same reason. Had a problem with the same people. Now we have a mutually exclusive situation here. Neither Riette nor Kristin want to be a part of conferences with wer and ray. So, either we have Riette and Kristin or we have wer and ray, Now, we don't actually have this choice because wer and ray are entrenched here. However, if we got rid of wer and ray, and brought Riette and Kristin back, I think we'd have a lot more discussion going on than there has been the last two days. Topic 10 of 33 [philosophy]: Selfishness Response 113 of 119: Ray Lopez (ratthing) * Fri, Dec 4, 1998 (15:38) * 16 lines well for heaven's sake, i just dont know what to say. i am completely flabbergasted by all of this. i *never* intended for anyone to be hurt by anything i have written here, but apparently i fucked up somewhere along the way. i am totally, totally at a loss to explain any of this. ask and you shall recieve, tim. i shall not be signing on anymore to the Spring. the nature of ASCII based communication is such that i really do not have the time to spend worrying about how some will misinterpret what i say and write. i live on the Well and on Rheingold's Brainstorms community as well, so i will still be in cyberspace, as i have been for the past 20 yrs. my email is rlopez@texas.net in case anyone wants to keep in touch! Topic 10 of 33 [philosophy]: Selfishness Response 114 of 119: Tim Guenther (TIM) * Fri, Dec 4, 1998 (15:38) * 1 lines ENVIRONMENT topic 10 responses 9 and 19 real quickly

I will miss you, Ray. :-(

i don't know if that helps me leplep, but thanks anyway. i think it's pretty babyish for people to take offense at anything said here because this place is for us to vent, to talk, to be honest, and say stupid things and be forgiven. if people have such fragile egos as to believe that whatever is being directed towards them and them directly in a derogative way, then, i don't know what to say. this is an open forum and none of us have the right to tell people they can't come back because it's better off ithout them or because they prevent the flow of conversation. this is ridiculous, hasn't anyone learned that you can avoid those comments directly by not validating them? by ignoring comments that perhaps are inappropriate? or maybe emailing whomever you think has done the offending and clear the air in private? look, i know that i'm a big fat idiot and probably don't know what i'm saying but i think this place will be less appealing without all the personalities that gather here and play off each other. truly will miss riette and ray.

Hear, hear, Wolf, couldn't have said it better myself.

Wow. I missed tons evidently. And I'll certainly miss Ray and Ree-head. gotta agree wolf. i have no children of my own, and I'm no longer a teacher, but I used to try and explain to my 'kids' that there will always be people in their lives that they find it difficult to get along with, that they don't like for one reason or another or may even hate. i certainly tried to impress upon them that it is their job to make the most of the situation especially if contact is inevitable and of course the old adage, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." Words can hurt deep inside but in a forum like this, a forum where we (as a whole) have prided ourselves on allowing diverse opinions, allowing true feelings to be revealed, encouraging honest discourse... it's sad that this community has to realize such a great loss.

I agree with you wolf, 100%. It should be an open forum, where you can speak your mind on an issue freely, without having to worry about taking a lot of flak about it. What happened to that??

pressure does get to people frustration mounts words fly apart hurt feelings seem to warp that's when people become more coercive towards each other.... how to keep a cool head under conditions like that can be more than too much of a challenge.... it seems so strange, so difficult to even get a handle on what specifically is going down....like inside different people's perceptions ---then BOOOOM

With me, JIM, It's more like ROOOOAAR, Like when they ignite the main ignition on a space shuttle launch, but without any water in the flame channels.

nevermind, i am back as host and on the spring!

good!