On Co-0p radio, they were saying we in the West look at this a sexual, but it means more like energy transferance. Tom Carr: In tantric practices they speak of "divine pride." This is in fact seeing yourself as god. Sounds a little psychotic, and it can be. A difference between a madman and a saint though is while both think they are god, the saint thinks *you* are god too!

A dakini is a woman who transfers her energy in spirit form in sex. And the Lama is doing his sexual tantra for the sake of those he does it with fundamentally. There are some stories of confrontation over this - and some stories of how he rescues in one case a Lama disciple who is not engaging sex in this way. Tom Carr (tomcarr) Thu Mar 13 '97 (06:07) 19 lines I probably had several purposes in asking the question about guidelines for student teacher sex in spiritual practice, but this is a big one: I think most of the time that a guru is having sex with his students, the motive is much more the guru's sexual satisfaction than a desire to help or teach the student. I think that by asking certain questions we can see which it is. Then we can avoid the whole argument about whether genuine good unselfish tantric sexual transmission exists and just say "Well maybe it does exist but this probably isn't it because ...." It seems to me the first test would be that, if the motive is teaching/transmission rather than guru gratification, the sexual attractiveness of the people the guru is doing it with would not matter. If the guru is doing it with a cross section of students; old/young, fat/thin, beautiful/ugly, then it might possibly be for real. If the guru is choosing to do it with the most attractive women in the sangha, you can bet that it has more to do with the gurus satisfaction than guru is choosing to do it with the most attractive women in the sangha, you can bet that it has more to do with the gurus satisfaction than with helping the student. Do you agree or disagree ?

A long time go I was interested in tantric teaching. Over time, the sex thing fades into more of an understanding of the flow of emotion energies that go through our body/minds. Thus sex is transcended to a broader level of work with these life energies. The reason we focus so much on sex in the beginning is that that is the area of greatest emoitional confusion in the earlier stages of life.

I prefer hatha yoga. *smile*

These days....I just love silance.

Who are the current day proponents of tantra yoga, in terms of existing spiritual groups?

Silence is glorious in the mountains. Akin to being inside an anechoic chamber, it's almost negative with relation to sound. And yes, those brief moments (when you hold your breath so as not to disturb the mood) are blissful.

It is good to be reminded here. Right here in this techno-realm. I used to practice with one of my friends, doing 12 seconds of silance in all kinds of odd places. On the road...at the hot dog stand...over the phone...over the e-mail. One of us would ask: "12 seconds?" The other would respond: "Yes." Then we would just attempt to stop whatever was happening within and outside. Just sitting; just being. 12 seconds??????

Sorry if this seems a silly question Americ, but how do you know when 12 seconds is up? Was one of you designated timekeeper? Did you alternate? I know that when I meditate, time loses measurability from having no frame of refernece. There are times when it seems like I have been in meditation for an hour and 10 minutes may have gone by and others when I am sure that it's 10 minutes and it is an hour. I realize that the silence is the important thjing here but I am curious about the aspect of coordinating that silence for a specific period with a partner. Karl

"12 seconds" is only the lowest level of "time" for attaining minimal concentration. This comes from one of the interpretation of Patinjali's _Yoga Sutra's_ No one keeps time, however. There is just a felt sense of when we have attained a moment of concentration. We take turns, but no one keeps track.

We were big on tantra yoga on the Farm. We talked about it often in Sunday morning services and most of the Farm marriages were into tantric yoga. I'll try and find the Monday night class quote.

Yes...I would like to hear a Monday night class quote.

I'll try and dig it up.