My current bike is a ____________.

'86 Ducati Pantah 650SS. I really like this bike though many feel it's outdated. The only limitation is true long distance riding, which I want to do more of, but it runs with all the best just fine.

1984 Honda Goldwing GL1200 Standard.... Never would have thought I would own one... Not sure I would part with this one though....

I'll bet it's *decked out* isn't it Shane?

I have a 1986 Venture Royale that I do most of my riding on.This is my second one and if they were still making them there would be no problem in answering the "next bike" question.I would buy a new one in a heart beat.This one is the Royale version with cruise control cb radio,stereo.It has the drivers back rest added as well as floor boards,driving lights,trunk rack,loud horns,chrome vents and the cushon hand grips and a trailer hitch.I never thought that I would want to pull a trailer and now I don't see how I ever got along with out one.

Hey Paul, I got your brother in a 96 Royal Star..love that V4. I've put 23k miles on it in 17 months. Great long distance riding. Those Ventures sure handle good with great pep. Stock, they can take an RS, which mine isn't anymore. My buddy has an 86 Venture that's fun to ride. One of these days I just might add that trailer hitch and head to Sturgis.

Hi "K" .That Star of yours is a beaut.Can't wait to see it with the chrome front end.There is a guy here in Provo with a red and white one that he put the chrome on last spring.I could not believe the difference it made.Those emulatoprs should perk up the handling too.

Actually Terry, it is far from *Decked Out*. In fact it is VERY PLAIN!!.. No sidebags, 83 Fairing, 85 Trunk, Pretty lean. The only decking really is cosmetic, I recently took all the laquer off of the Valve Covers and Timing belt covers and polished them. Looks great! Would do away with the Trunk but wife needs a place to lean too, so it stays for now. My replace Fairing with a Windshield if the Valkerie parts become a bit mor affordable... Shane

See "First Bike" for my current bike.

I went on my first extended ride in 3 months yesterday (Saturday). The bike was giving me trouble and wouldn't start, so I took the tank off to see if the gas tank's hoses were all hooked up right. They were, so I put it back together and it started first try. Go figure. Anyway, I knew my back tire was pretty bad, but I needed to do an Italian tuneup, so I started off towards Conifer for lunch. It was sputtering and moaning and groaning and refusing to reve past 4000 rpms under load (it would rev all day in neutral). Obviously starving. I stopped and had some pizza, got back on the bike, it started up and ran pretty dang well (I can't say perfectly because there's still an occasional miss, but it's almost unnoticeable). I took a ride down a new road I've never been on called Shadow Mountain Road then back up to Pleasant Park Road through Deer Creek Canyon. This would be the supreme ride except that when the road gets really interesting it gets really gravelly. That's a big problem in Colorado. A--Some of the best roads in Colorado are unpaved and intersect with the paved ones--leaving sand all over the road near the intersections.B--Alot of people cut the really sharp corners short, kicking up gravel on the road where you need your traction most.C--In the corners after it rains gravel slides down the hill onto the road. And only in the corners. Anyway, I went down to Faye Meyers to drool on the Triumphs. They ignored me--but that's o.k. I'm going back in three or four months with four or five thousand dollars in my pocket--they'll talk to me then. After that I stopped by Glenn Carpenters' to visit. He's sold his BMW and now has his venerable Suzuki 850, an old Kawi KZ650 that runs good and a cherry (near perfect) '81 CB750. Sweet bike. It was then that he pointed out that my tire was worn down to the cord. Bad deal. I carefully made my way the 30 or so miles home and have parked the bike. See, the weather is stunning right now but by the time I have enough money to replace the tire (atleast a couple of weeks) it'll be too late to ride. Frustrating as hell. Oh, and my current bike is a Ninja 600R (I never answered this original topic.)

Motorbike or no, I'd have to agree with you on the Colorado gravel deal. Weather turns "crappy" today, maybe that'll give you an opportunity to be back together before the next Indian Summer hits (I'm counting on one too!) The Deer Creek Canyon you mentioned... the one that extends nearly to C-470, and comes out just east of the foothills?

Yep, that's the Deer Creek Canyon, Stacey. Ends up down around Ken Caryl. Nice, nice area. I wish I could afford a house there, but gee, I left my $1,000,000 in my other pants. Do you really think we'll have another Indian summer? That'd be awesome. Who knows, maybe the firm will get around to fulfilling my invoice and I'll get paid in the next couple of days. Aaah. Dang, I need too many toys. Next toy is going to be a nice mountain bike. I think I'll save my money and spend about a grand next summer and get a nice one.

Whether's not bad at all up here at 8500 feet, but it's cool, no doubt.

Let me know when you get a mountain bike! I loving showing people new trails! I went looking for a road bike Saturday and discovered the process will be long and labored, regardless of the price tag. The obstacle is my size. While I am not strikingly short (in my opinion), I am apparently not mainstream cyclist build. At this point the only road bike that came close as far as standover and top tube length was a Terry-type with a 24 in front wheel. The stem was a bit too short though so, regardless, it loo s like I will have to get a custom bike. Specialized, Gary Fisher, I even tried a LeMond! Just wonky size requirements!C'est la vie!

I guess you don't want one of those "ladies'" bikes with the tube that attaches to the seat tube way down at the bottom?

My sister has one of those (which she won't ride), but the seat heaght is a bit too tall for her, even at minimum height, and she's not all that short.

Heck no! The bike will be purely for pleasure but my pleasure includes stupid human tricks like triathlons and long charity rides. I want something fast and something I can sit on for HOURS and DAYS at a time. One of my dreams is to take a "credit card tour" across to California on the bike. Just me and the bike, stopping to eat when I'm hungry, to sleep when I'm sleepy. Stopping wherever I want for however long and getting closer to my owns thoughts. I've entertained thoughts of racing but I prefer th MTB when it comes to dangerous passtimes.

"Dangerous past times". A good expression. And what fun is life without a few dangerous past times?

The "credit card tour" sounds nice, but it would be you, your thoughts, a semi or two, and about a billion RVs and various other tourists. California is a beautiful place, but it's too dang crowded. I guess just about every place is these days.

Stop tainting my dream!!!!!!!!! Yea, exhaust and bike-hater drivers would eliminate some of the fun.

Sorry, don't mean to taint your dreams. Have you ever been to California? It is gorgeous. Just make your credit card tour last from Monday - Thursday and you'll be o.k. We went out there for a spring break a few years back. We drove up the Pacific Coast Highway on a Tuesday, I think, from LA to San Francisco. Absolutely gorgeous, and the traffic was tolerable.

California is a great place for travelin' all over. Try cutting over to the coast from IH5 by way of Coleman Valley road through Occidental sometime (or one of the similar roads in Sonoma County), and time it so you come over the last ridge to the ocean right around sunset. Talk about a 7th bardo heaven paradise. I long to do that again someday.

Monday thru Thursday is a bit short for a muscle-powered road bike! I've been to San Francisco and did the city on a bike (again muscle power) STEEP neighborhood streets! I spent a 6 hour layover in LAX -- not a really pleasant intro to California. I did the Napa Valley on a bicycle too -- plenty of wine mixes better with backroads!

Napa is the next valley over from the area that I was just describing. The ridges along the ocean in Sonoma and Mendocino counties are breathtaking, as they are in the Big Sur area to the South. This would have to be on the list of ideal places to go bicycling or motorcycling.

Aaaah. Napa Valley. Wine and bikes (no matter what kind o' power) are a bad combo. Too bad, cuz a bicycle or motorcycle trip sampling the wineries would be awesome. I've got an uncle who lives an hour north of San Francisco--he's used to great wines costing no more than $2 per bottle. Aaaah.

When we do France, we tend to do alternate days riding and Wine. and fill the panniers up to take home! HIC!

I don't know how effective this practice is, but I'd like your opinion: For riding through wine country (acadamic for me; Jamaica doesn't have any), find a place to park the bike for two hours. Use the first hour to drink one (and only one) glass of wine. Use the second hour for your liver to metabolise the wine. During these two hours, walk around, take photos, play whatever music you brought (instruments or recorded music) and just generallly breathe in the air. Unless you were very tired to begin with, I think that by the end of the two hours you should be ready to go again, especially if you took a nap during the second hour. I've never actually done this. Is it acceptable?

Denpending on how much alcohol your body is accustomed to, yes, that would be quite the acceptable riding/drinking combo. On our trip, we rode to a winery sampled (samples are very partial glasses and you can have a few) explored the winery, wandered around outside and got back on the bike-- bottles in the panniers! When you are exercising, your body metabolizes a bit faster. At Mumm's we decided the effects had begun to be cummulative and rested on their patio, overlooking the vines and snacking on sesam crackers. If you take a whole day and only attmpt 4 or 5 wineries with long jaunts in between, I think you can do it responsibly.

4 or 5 wineries! Damn better be responsible! The nearest winery here is a favorite stop for dresser touring clubs; they sample about 6 or 7 plastic shot-glasses of the product and head out, feeling real fine. is sort of a paradoxical situation--enjoying the wines & scenery without falling off your ride.

Yes, Sam, that would be acceptable, but you wouldn't get very far in a day. I'd say 3 wineries max if it was two hours at the winery and 1 hour between. Like I said, motorcycling and fine wines--two great things in life but they have to be kept mostly seperate. But like Stacey and Shebee said--load up the paniers and take 'em home!

Good idea!

After the paniers were full, we had it MAILED home.

YES! I was in Ireland a couple of years ago, touring on the Tiger, and spotted a Bodhran (the classic Irish Drum) that I had to have, we were staggering from pub to pub at the time, It is about 2 1/2 ft diameter but I "knew" i had space for it as well as everything else. When I got it back to the site I realised that I would have had problems getting it back on its own without all the camping gear etc, so I ended up mailing it home!

Hmm... I am going home in about two weeks, and I bought a lot of junk in M�xico! Maybe I'll mail some of it home! Thanks for the tip!

I once assisted a friend on mine in strapping a tree to her bike.... We were out riding, and there was a road side stand selling 3 gallon planters of Pin Oaks, that were about 3 to 4 feet tall... She just had to have on so we got it strapped on the back of her bike for the 30 minute remainder of the ride back to her place.... Looked pretty funny, but we got it there in one piece.... Shane

THAT'S HYSTERICAL!

Good idea to hide a CB antenna Yves

Whoa, been gone a good week and everybody's going to Napa. Was just there a couple of weeks ago for a charity ride..1000+ bikes in a couple of mile long train riding thru the valley. Didn't get time for wine though..maybe next time (dang). I did just ride down to Bodega Bay last Friday and then up the coast hwy to Ft.Bragg on Saturday. On Sunday we rode thru a nice coastal mountain grove of big redwoods (hwy 20) and cruised the north side of Clear Lake back into the Big Valley. Did drink some Merlot one n ght and some Sauvignon Blanc the next during dinner (CA of course). Absolutely perfect weather..dry and 70s or so mid day. Best riding weather of the year is in October.

Did you see any birds in Bodega Bay?

What was the charity ride?

No birds..lot's of stars at night though. Stacy..it wasn't a charity ride unless it was charity to my brain to get away from it all for two days.

That surely counts!

Well, to answer terry's original question, my current bike is an '84 Venture Royale. I feel the same as Paul does about the line and really don't know what I would replace it with. I don't think I'll have to worry about it for awhile, this bike is in good mechanical condition. I live in Abbotsford, BC about an hour S. of Vancouver in the Fraser Valley. Great mountain scenery, lots of windy roads to ride. Kathryn

Windy or windey, either one applies. Kathryn

Wow, what a great place to live. I've heard about that area.

Current ride--Harley Davidson Road King. Tons of fun!

Have two at the moment...a 1981 Harley FLT, which isn't quite what it seems to be (lots of treats and modifications) and a 1982 Gold Wing which I stole for a thousand dollars in June. Ed

So shouldn't the guy who paid you the thousand to steal it have the bike? Or are you hanging on to it because the guy won't pay you? :-]

No Sam, I was speaking sort of figuratively. The going price for an '82 GW here in Tidewater was anywhere from 2K to 3K. I rode this one before I made the decision to buy it...good and tight, engine clean, upholstery not torn up, no laydown damage, up to date safety inspection, good rubber, no oil pools, a little bit of head rust on some screws, no cracks in rubber boots, intakes, anyplace that suggested the previous owners had ignored. I made an offer of a thousand cash and they took it. Since I bough it in June, I have put over 6 thousand miles on it. Only thing I am going to do is replace the front wheel bearings and seals when I put a new tire on. All my acquaintances that know motorcycles (I mean really know!) can't believe I got the deal I did. Ed

Back to the original question: My current bike is a '96 FXSTS Springer Softail Planning to do a cam and new heads this winter.

Great to see you Dave (here & in the pic)! Lookin' "bad"! I think the Springer is the 2nd nicest factory Harley, after the RoadKing. Which cam/heads are you going for? Is that to outrun the Man at Nathan's? (o;{

Hey Dave, great to see you and the Springer...Nice bike.

Hey, I like that name. Springer. Since I'm such a spingeur.

'82 Yamaha Virago 920. I bought it cheap. It is black, hardly any chrome, it has been dropped and has a big dent in the tank, so what I am saying is she is pretty beastly looking. But she runs great and she is my ticket to long deserted stretches of road through the sparsely populated and achingly beautiful Texas hill country. Karl

Sounds good to *me*!

Man, this area is dead. What happened to everyone?

Jon, they're all out riding because there's no snow in Texas! Or Jamacia!

Yeah, but certain Jamaicans I know don't even have a bike yet! (Grin)

I have a bike, it just doesn't work (yet)...

Yeah, that's o.k. It's very obvious that you're a smart guy--you'll figure it out soon enough.

S'ok Sam, my bike doesn't have an engine!

Dave, love the pic and glad to see you're aboard. Still planning to come up your way one of these days and catch on with Frank too. What heads and cam are you going with? I'm just about to install the Stage 2 EFI kit on the toadster. The SE3 cam that comes with it is basically an EV27 grind with a bit more lift. Should be a nice boost (80+ ft.lbs. torque and hp). The Stage 3 EFI chip allows head work and higher compression pistons (up to 10:1). Who knows what the future may hold! Let your wallet fall back and your bike spring forward!

Who knows what the future may hold! A Harley with no power below 6000 RPMs? That's a good question--often with performance mods for a Japanese bike you push all your power up top. Is this a problem with Harley performance mods?

Speaking o' which, I saw these guys on TV put a turbo on their bikes. It was a pretty simple (I'd say one Saturday) project with all the hardware included--including a nifty looking exhaust header to run the exhaust to the turbo. It looked nice. The only really noticeable part was the air intake that comes from the turbo unit (which is mounted low and forward on the engine) and it looked really cool anyway. Sharp setup. Supposedly adds big time power across the range. You don't have to recam, but the guys I saw did. They said their hogs were up to around 100 horses and almost that much torque. Very, very cool--my kind of mod.

I seem to see that you can pretty well pick your place with the HD motor, Lo, middle, or high range, or a reasonable power increase across all 3, if you're patient and pick the right parts. With the UJMs, it's frequently at the top as mentioned. You likely saw the Aerocharger setup Jon. I think it's the best-engineered kit out there. Why doesn't Tim Allen have a Harley??

Brad, I'm considering an EV27 with Brancher heads. Should bring the compression up to about 9.5:1 with no piston work. Should be a good combination with the type of riding that I do. The EV27 will give you a range from about 1700 rpm to 5000 rpm...nice range. The heads are bolt on with no other mods. Should bring the old Springer close to 85 hp. Jon, I believe that in the latest issue of Hot Bike magazine the did a step by step install of the AeroCharger. Alot of work, not just bolt on.

Frank, Tim Allen doesn't have a Harley but he did put a Harley motor on a riding lawn mower once.

To get to the other side, Frank? ;-) Sounds like a joke. He did ride a Harley on one episode--I think into the crowd. Can't remember, I saw it a while back.

Yeah the mower episode was a hoot! Big twin stickin' up out of the mower. Man Dave those Branch heads are bux! I respect your love for the motor!

I now have two bikes with no motor (not including the Twinstar which has a motor, but it's open!). I just got my Mexican bicycle cleared through customs. I will NEVER bring home anything like that again! SELL! SELL! SELL! Customs is HORRIBLE!! And it's not the people, it's the system (or lack thereof!) I felt sorry for the customs officers, but that's probably because I brought lunch; if I didnt, I probably would have been very angry with them! Next project...Rebuild Matilda (my name for the TwinStar, 'coz we plan to go waltzin'!)

Customs in Mexico is easy if you've got the bucks. "Here officer, does that clear things up?"

How true!

Jon, Big Twin power is concentrated in low and mid range, where 99% of the riders spend 99% of their time. Torque is the name of the game. HP is primarily a high-end performance gain--torque is power where it counts. Dave, the Branch heads and the EV27 sound like a real nice combo. My buddy runs the EV27 on his Softail--stock heads--and the performance boost was very noticable, especially from 3,000 rpm up. I think the SE3 will give me essentially the same profile, although Kip Woodring (Thunder Press Motorhead) likes the SE3 better--slightly more lift, which produces slightly flatter and higher torque and hp curves. Check it out with your shop. BTW, the SE3 is made for Harley by Andrews. Aren't you also running a single-fire ignition Dave? Another good investment IMHO. Fortunately, the EFI bikes come stock with a single-fire. As far as the Aerocharger system goes, it is nice, but it costs a fortune--over $3,500 + I believe. I watched a mechanic put one on a Softail and there is a lot more to it than bolting it on--Dave is right. Lots of adjusting and riding and adjusting--lots of shop time $$. There are other ways to get to 100 + hp too, but I'm not convinced any of them are really worth it. A nice, flat torque curve in the 80's with similar hp will give you a roll-on MONSTER without the monster investment or the maintenan e headaches--like regularly replacing rocker-box and base gaskets. You can pay me now, and you can pay me later!

Got to agree with you and Dave, Brad; 80hp is plenty unless all you do is bench-race at the bars. I've turned into a conversation-stopper at times by stating that even though I've been riding on 100 horses, I can only say I've used/felt 75-80 in some real road-dices. Am I correct in assuming that most hog riders use the "punch" for passing in traffic and scooting beyond 18-wheelers?? That seems realistic to me. High-end b---s are rarely used off the track, and then not long enough to justify the usual exp nse of reliability, at least outside of Germany! My problem (other than $ limits) is that when you *know* the motor is good for 50% more than stock, you want it. See "Moto Guzzis"!

Brad, Yes as a matter of fact I'm currently running a dyna 2000 single fire ignition and a S$S super E carb. With the head work and the cam it should run real good but still be a dependable engine for the long distance trips that I enjoy taking. BTW a friend of mine has a '97 Road King (Fuel Injection) and went with the Stage II kit and claims he saw a HUGE difference.

Frank, Yeah getting up above 85hp becomes incredibly expensive on a Harley. You need to stroke the motor, etc., etc. No longer dependable either. The turbo deal, from everything that I've read and heard about it, you should really put a nice set of forged pistons in it to make it more reliable. That'll put you up around $5k for the whole deal. Not worth it for another 15 hp or so in my book. The cam alone will give you the passing power that you need to get by those 18 wheelers, but with the heads it'll give you a bigger smile on your face when you go by.

Biggest reasons I liked the Aero setup really came from talking to the principal at the NY show and seeing the work they put in the unit. But there sure are a lot of less costly ways to go.

What's the advantage of single fire?

Dave, check this out. A mechanic friend said he installed the Stage 2 kit on a full dresser last week. When he test rode it, he said the difference from 3,000 rpms on was unreal. In fact, he said on his shift into fourth gear, he easily pulled the front tire up--on an Ultra! Well, mine is scheduled for installation on December 8. Bring on the game! This could be a great stage in the life of my King!

Jon, the stock Harleys with electronic ignition had a single coil and a module that fired both cylinders at the same time, hence a "wasted" spark. The concept is a little tough to explain without a few beers, but anyhow, it worked reasonably well, provided that you left the cam alone. When us'ns started changing cams which affected the way fuel and air mixtures were moved around in the cylinders, then you could wind up with backfires. The idea with a single fire setup is that you get one spark for one ylinder, even with an electronic ignition. I hung a Dyna electronic ignition and a pair of 3 ohm coils on my FLT, and what a wonderful difference (besides that, someone told me I couldn't put two coils on the stock frame...did I ever fool them...built a hidden mount under the seat). Harder hitting, better idle. Now some of the new single fires run a single coil, but I am sort of the old school here about heat buildup in coils (one coil is going to build up heat firing twice as often as two in the two oil rig). Also, if I should have a coil failure, I still will get someplace on one cylinder. Oh yeah, on road trips on the Harley, I carry a spare electronic ignition plate and coil...haven't ever had to change 'em, but I figure the first time me and the shovel take off for a nice road trip without my ignition spares, I will lose a coil or burn out an ignition module. Ed

The backfires make sense. I understand the idea of a waste spark, I just didn't understand why it mattered much. That all makes sense. Don't most motorcycles have a waste fire?

Don't know Jon, never thought about it. In the HD V-twin, the "wasted" spark isn't symmetrical...it fires, then fires 45 degrees later for the rear cylinder. Again, I think it may be the HD V-twin is susceptible to problems with the stock ignition once you change the properties of the valve timing by recamming. On mine, I first put on a new carburetor; eventually rejetted the intermediate range. Got better perfomance throughout, but lower mileage. No backfires. Then I put a different style of pipe on got away from the HD crossover pipe arrangement used on the tourers. Now, my rear cylinder ran a little cooler, not quite as rich. No backfires. Then I recammed to a modified street cam, for better pulling from 2 thousand to 45 hundred RPM...oops, started backfiring. Started monkeying around with the timing...could not get rid of the backfires when backing off. Hmmm! Went back to the carburetor looking for trouble...rebuilt same. Backfires still there. Don't know where I got the idea, but figured out that it was time for a single fire system. After hacking one together and figuring out how to mount coils on stock FLT frame so they wouldn't show, I lost my backfire. Idles good, runs up through the RPMs smooth as melted chocolate pours, backs off with no sputtering, spitting, or popping. (All this happened over about 3 years and 40K miles of figuring stuff out). My conclusion is that the 45 degree V-twin is particularly touchy once you start changing stuff...otherwise there would probably not be much aftermarket for HD single fire kits. Ed

That makes absolute sense. I was told that my '83 Nighthawk had a waste fire. I wonder what it's firing is like? 180 degrees? That would basically elminate such a problem.

Ed, on the 883 I only plan on adding the SE air cleaner kit, SE slip-ons and changing out for a differnt seat than the single stocker. I will be able to only spend little amounts of money here and there for quite sometime. Hey, how reliable are H-D's with evo motors, I've been getting a lot of "horror stories" from riders of H-D and others?? I must have a reliable bike, that's the most important factor for me, the brand is secondary as I really hate being left on the side of the road! I can't seem to get a "honest answer" on how much down time the evo riders experiance over time and longer distances. I'd really appreciate if you and Dave would fill me in on the low down maintance wise, thanks BJ Ondo

I would think (I've ridden an EVO Sporty 1200) that the biggest reliability problem with an EVO would be the vibes. First, you have to tighten alot of nuts and bolts to keep things from falling off, and the other question is how do you engineer a machine to be reliable when it shakes that much? But I've heard nothing but good about EVOs. Still, there's a whole lotta shakin' going on.

Jon You are a Truimph owner you should know the answer! LOCTITE! (and crinkle washers, and nyloc nuts, and tab washers and locking wire and casle nuts and when all else fails WELD!)

I agree Shebee and Jon--making sure stuff is tight is the only maintenance headache. The motors are solid, and properly maintianed, should run 100,000 without trouble. BJ, if you change out your mufflers and aircleaner, you must rejet the carb. If you don't, you will run too lean and potentially damage the pistons. Lean mixtures burn slow and hot. The stock setup is at the limit of lean to begin with, and the extra air flow will take you into the danger zone. It's not a high-cost item, but very necessary, especially if you want the bike to run well. I would say don't put on the aircleaner and pipes until you are ready to rejet. Shake, but don't bake!

Hey BJ, why not spring for a 1200? I mean, an 883 is going to be cramped for you, and last I checked (about 3 years ago, admittedly) the 1200s were only about $1000 more. And SheBee, I'm not a Triumph owner yet--I'm sure I'll learn. Had to do that with my old XS650, though.

You can easily convert an 883 to a 1200 for well under $1,000. The size of the bike frame is the same, although the 883 has is a tiny bit lower in the seat. When you're bored, bore out!

Uner $1000 for everything (labor included)? You can bore an 883 to 1200? Geez! What's that do to reliability?

Nothing, Jon. The right shop/dealer can save you money on that one. What about the '98 Sportster Sport? $8400, looks like they finally got it right!

Nothing as far as I know Jon. They make a kit just for that purpose. There is a guy here at the office that's looking into it. It's pretty common. There is a time and a kit for every purpose under Heaven

First of BJ, welcome...good to see you here. Just about everyone I know with an EVO, whether in the Sportster version, or the 80 cubic incher has very little maintenance problem...oh, every now and then, there is the loose this or that, but overall, not too bad. That doesn't mean you can ignore the routine stuff that any ride needs. What will change the axiom is high revs...the stock Harleys don't do well at the higher RPMs. Ed

Jon, didn't do a 1200 as the price is $7,610 before the 8.5% dealer mark up (figured from the difference between MSRP on the 883 and dealers price). So the 883 is in the budget for "no payments", the 1200 isn't. Plus dealer prep and freight is "$695.00" I have a limit of $7,000 dollars and with the new seat and windshield Iam right at that point with the 883. The BMW is MSRP at $7,400 but it's a leftover 97 and he will drop it down to 6,800 so with tax, prep, freight and bmw hardbags ($660.00) he's worked it out to $7,300 which is the extreeme limit I can go. Brad is right, infact the dealer recommends to do the "conversion" instead of buying a 1200 model to save money. Tailwinds, BJ

BJ I know you were after a Harley for some time now, good that you found a way in! Just don't look too long at the Accessories catalog, you may be cryin' more than ridin'!

BJ, you made a good choice, and I know you'll enjoy it. Just do yourself a favor and try to maintain some control when the new parts catalog comes to your door! hehe BJ--a real Sporty guy! ;-)

Hee, Frank and I are sharing brain waves this morning! BEEP BEEP!!!

BJ, you made a good choice, and I know you'll enjoy it. Just do yourself a favor and try to maintain some control when the new parts catalog comes to your door! hehe BJ--a real Sporty guy! ;-)

My friend gets 2 copies of all the Harley catalogs, one for him and the 2nd which he says to me "That's your copy", like *HintHint*pickupsomethingforme*. I'd love to give some of the stuff as gifts but man, Expensive. Plus it's a personal thing to pick yer own, no?

What's up with harley? Do folks love/hate it? Is Harley going down hill? Has Honda passed them by again?

What do we do (folks)? Kidnap Paul, dressed in leather outfits and drag him around with us each in groups of 3 let's say? Kind of apprenticeship? Harley guys last on line? (o; Harley is probably one of *the* most successful businesses in the world which has motorcycles as the product. People love it *and hate it. Honda & Harley really don't run together at all, I think.

"dressed in leather outfits and drag him around with us each in groups of 3" Hey can I play! :) - or maybe I cant since the last Honda I had was a C90?

You got it Frank. People have been predicting HD's demise for years, while secretly purchasing their stock for retirement! hehe Of course, Honda makes good products, and so does HD. You don't have to hate one to love the other, and neither company is succeeding at the other's expense. It's not lonely at the top!

So the Vaklyrie isn't a Harley killer?

Nah, the Valk is a whole different deal. It's a hotrod that draws its styling from the American classics but its soul from Honda's past. It's a unique deal that some will love and others won't--but it won't affect HD sales much, I figure.

I think the point Frank made on the Polaris is accurate. There will be a few people around the margin that will forgo an HD for something like Polaris or the Honda Valkyrie to save a few bucks or a little time, but there aren't enough of them to make a big dent in Harley sales. Most folks that want a Harley will not accept anything else. IMHO, the Valk is not the kind of machine that can capture the heart and the soul of an HD enthusiast. What's his blood type? Orange?

Harley-Davidson is as much an image as a motorcycle, as much a vision of WWII dispatch riders and Peter Fonda as it is an assembley of parts. It's Hollywood on two wheels. Honda makes motorcycles of all kinds, from the C90 (bigger version of the universal C50 Cub) to the GL1500 GoldWing (for those who can't decide between an Accord Wagon and a motorcycle) The Valkyrie is a V-Max killer that really should have taken that left turn at Albequerque, because it ended up in the middle of Cruiserville, where it's O.K. thanks to the comfort left over from the GoldWing components, but where it looks a bit uncomfortable, like a drag racer in drag. Harley-Davidson really wouldn't make a bike like the Nighthawk (if they weren't already making the Sportster... since 1957!) and they DEFINITELY would not make such a bike as the PC800 Pacific Coast, which has totally foregone style in favour of innovation (has anyone else, apart from scooter makers, built a bike with an integral trunk?) and has given up the D-P market completely. If you want a real sportbike, the only way to get one in a Harley flavour (unless you build your own) is to buy a Buell, whic uses a Sportster 1200 engine and top-line sportbike pieces from just about everywhere else but H-D. I really should have put this opinion column under Honda, but this is where the argument is...

What's Harleys answer to the Valk?

Does NOT have one, at least not stock. However, the Screamin' Eagle performance parts division of H-D, or aftermarket engine builders like S&S can provide hop-up parts or complete engines to supply the power to catch Valkyries or V-Maxes. Style-wise, there are some who argue (Not me, Marc!!!) that the Yamaha Royal Star and the Valkyrie are replies to the H-D Road King. I have no effective answer for the Royal Star (except that I STILL wonder about the fake fins), but the Valkyrie is definitely something completely different. (English accenthere:)And now for something completely different!

Albert says to me "What good is an image or a vision if all you see of it is the parts all over the garage"

I take it he's an active Harley non-fan. I think Harleys have improved since the bad old days of AMF, but I personally don't know how much. They held the lead in factory recalls in 1994 (BMW came second, I think...) How long has Albert been riding? You apologized for saying he was a beginner and told us he was quite experienced. Did he have a Harley that he had to take apart?

The lead in numbers or percentages? What percentage of their bikes in 94 were subject to recall?

I mistakenly said he was a beginner. I'll ask him when I see him. He got quite agitated about the Harley thing. He's very wrapped up in the Valk. Last I heard, he was headed off for the Continental Club, it's made him much more outgoing. He shaved his head a couple of days ago and is undergoing sort of an identity metamorphosis.

LOL. Yeah, sounds like a Harley rider to me! (Better not tell him I said that......)

Number, I think. I read the motorcycle recall list in Consumer Digest's 1994 yearbook, and Harley almost monopolized the column-long list, leaving two or three to BMW. I don't recall seeing any Big Four bikes in the list (was Triumph there? I'm not sure...)

My wife would say 'mid-life crisis' for Albert. Some guys just grabbed the reins and learned how to take 'em apart and put 'em back together, wether knucklehead, AMF-bike or whatever. Some just don't want that and look elswhere. Get him on the board to exchange gripes/praises!

Albert has bought into an image too, just not the one Harley offers. Anti-Harleyism is perhaps more trendy today than Harleyism. I think he should just ride what he has and leave others to do the same. I won't hold it against him that he bought a Valk--promise! ;-) If you say you don't want a Harley long enough, you might actually believe it! hehe

Well, I wouldn't mind a Sportster or a Dyna Convertible, but... As the song says, "Be Thankful For What You Got" (The writer of that song took his own advice and only wrote one verse, which was repeated a few times by the singer when he recorded it!)

Iam starting to look at a used Buell S2 with higher bars and lower pegs. It's only got 14,000 miles and I personally know the 1st. and 2nd. owner. It's been very well cared for and I was major surpirzed that the bike has a very level seat position which keep the "pressure off my hands"! See most sportbikes has the seat "heading down hill" which really puts pressure on the hands and wrist's, which kills the comfort factor for me and makes most sportbikes un-rideable! So since you guys know everything there is to know about bikes (: How's about giving me your unbiased opinons on the Buell S2. They want $7,900 but I bet I can talk them down to $7,500 as Buell's aren't as popular as H-D's!! Tailwinds, BJ

The S2s are awesome. Strong 1200cc EVO motor, good handling and stopping, and (in my opinion) killer (and no doubt unique) looks. I've ridden (did I mention this before somewhere?) a 1200cc Sporty and if you had that engine's characteristics (super low down grunt) in a great sportbike chassis that actually vibes less than a Sporty, well that's nirvana. And they're rare to top it off. You might even try to get down to $6,500. I would be careful, though, as the S2s are much more problem prone than the S1s from what I've read.

Unless Cycle World gets special treatment, Buell has a very good service department, but I wonder if it's due to a large amount of experience in a short time...

Something like that. Did you see their long term test S2's performance? Broke down alot, but they kept saying "it was only a pre-production unit", etc. But your'e right--they fixed everything that went wrong.

BJ: Offer 7K and stick to it! You'll like it MUCH better than a Hugger all round. I was wondering when you'd think of this, as long as a used bike is in the picture. I think they'd be happy with the 7 grand.

Frank, well as in my life of constant change, looks like I won't be getting either the Sportster or the Buell! See the money we are getting is from the "profit sharing account" from JO's last job (13 years at SAM'S CLUB (ie:WalMart), and the IRS is killing us in taxes on us so there won't be quite as much money as we figured, that's change #1. Change #2 is that JO (my wife) has decided that she really wanted the Intruder 800 instead of the 650 Savage, our dealer gave us a great deal on the leftover 96 Sav ge but the only Intruder 800 leftover he had was a 97 and with that much more money involved. Being the semi-decent husband I am, Iam bowing out from the Sportster/Buell deal and JO is getting her lovely red Intruder, (after all it is her money for working at a crappy retail job for 13 years!!). So now Iam looking at 2 bikes: A. Suzuki Maruder 800 B. Honda 750 NightHawk These machines are around $1,000 to 1,500 dollars cheaper and are within my reach with what will be left after the Intruder purchase. These are pretty much my "new bike options", now used bikes are a different story so who knows what I will end up with! In Jan. I'll let everybody know, I love life, it's always one thing or another! Tailwinds, BJ

Used Suggestions: i. Virago 750 ii. Intruder 800 iii. GS500 iv. KLR650 v. 600 Eliminator vi. Shadow (I'm actually recommending a fake fin bike?) vii. Nighthawk (This would have been higher up if you hadn't already told me that you consider them to be plain) Will some Yamaha fans (I used to be one!) please recommend some Yamahas?

OOPS! The very first bike on the list IS a Yamaha! Thought I didn't have any on. Well, Yamaha fans can add more Yamahas to the list, then. I used to think of myself as a Suzuki non-fan. Either Suzuki got better or I got better informed!

BJ, grab a nightHawk and be happy! It can always be sold.

You had to pay taxes, BJ? That can't be! The government makes extra sure that only nasty old rich people have to pay taxes! (O.K., so I'm being sarcastic because of my resentment of the tax system in this country....)

Iam with ya Jon, JO earned $19,000 dollars in the 13 years in her profit sharing account. Right of the top is 21% which brings it down to $15,000 which should buy us the 2 machines we want "BUT", we were informed that we could be charged a "additional" 10% tax by the IRS, and of course that's on the $19,000 Gross amount, not on the $15,000 Net amount. So we have to hold back a min. of $2,000 dollars, so we are down to $13,000 at best. Jo's 97 Intruder is $6,100 out the door (taxes and dealer prep included), that leaves $6,900 and the cost out the door for a sportster 883 from my local dealer is $7,100 (taxes and dealer prep included) so were already $200.00 short and that doesn't include windshields,lower seat for JO and was hoping for a different seat for the Sporty as the stock seat is pretty bad. So to be smart I will look for a bike in the $6,000 out the door range and have a little money to cover 6 months insurance and plates for 2 new bikes! This is because of the Harley dealer markup of 8.5% (883 Sporty MSRP= $5395--Dealer price $5895+ $700 dollars set up and dealer prep, $90 document fees and $400 in taxes for the lovely state and county of Colorado. The $5395 Sporty now total cost is $7,100 out the door with no accessiores, ouch! Tailwinds, BJ

BJ, Have you checked with other dealers? Your dealer is obviously not being straight with you. The MSRP price already includes a dealer markup. I have no idea how much it is, but I assure you--it is enough to keep most dealerships profitable--after all, the ripoff dealerships only recently(3 years) started to jack the prices up over MSRP. Don't let anyone tell you that ALL dealers are participating in these ripoff policies. They aren't! Most dealers still sell bikes at MSRP. Check around, make some ca ls. Who needs the money more, you or a dealership? IMHO the $700 figure for dealer prep (removing the bike from the shipping crate) and setup (adding a few quarts of oil, putting a battery in, and wiping off any dirt or grime) is astronomically outrageous. In this situation however, there remains little that can be done. Just thought I'd add my $.02 Hoop

Thanks Hoop, ya Iam starting to look at all the options! Seem's most of the Jap/Euro dealers have prep and freight set at a total of $290.00, that would give me $400.00 to cover access. or insurance. It's just now I look like a goon, I've been telling everyone Iam gona buy a Harley and now Iam changing my mind so soon. Have learned "say nothing" till something happens! Thanks. Tailwinds, BJ

Just tell 'em, "I lost my Harley to the tax-man!" They'll sympathize! ;-]

Only perfect people never chage their mind and I HATE perfect people...

Hey BJ personally I like hearing about all your choices. Don't let anything pressure you after all its winter and the dealers are happy to see a live body walk in!

Frank, you know it seem's that the local dealers don't slow down much in the winter here but we have fairly mild winters much of the time but Elnieo might change that. Have to admit Iam kinda bending toward finding a used Kawasaki Concours and giving sport touring a try. It's as close to sportbiking as this old body well ever get. The search continues! Tailwinds, BJ

Just can't get the mind off the Harley Sportster, damn it seems the propaganda machine is working on my brain hard, figured that we "can" still buy the sportster but it's real close. See Jo is so short that she can only ride cruisers and even the 27" seat heigt of the 800 Intruder is a strech for her (we are ordering a Saddleman "lowboy" custom seat) for JO. The problem is that if I buy a sport tourer type machine Iam always leaving JO in the dust, the tires and maintance on a sport tourer is higher due o engine type and required sticker tires. A Sporty has hyd.valves and a belt drive it should be fairly major maintance free. Having a cruiser to me means Harley, the Japanese versions are nice but cookie cutter in style (at least the models I can afford). Jo is my best riding partner and most of my friends ride either tourers or cruisers. Having a sport machine is NO FUN when riding with cruisers, even the ThunderBird custom seemed FAST when riding with the gang. Probably gona lose all common sense and ge the Sporty after all! Damn, the H-D shops must do subliminal messages or odorless mind control gas! If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand! Help me, Help me Mister Wizard, ha ha! Tailwinds, BJ

BJ, if an early Buell won't fit the bill, and the $$ is right, get the Sportster you seem to want pretty much more'n anything else. Understand that every Harley is a building foundation and plan accordingly. EVERYone I know on even the "simplest" of Harley's changes bars, seat, tank, all those, or more. Most sport-tourers require some ergonomic adjustments to controls, a set of bags, and that's it. But I can feel the desire for the American iron over here on my monitor!

BJ, is there an MuZ dealer near you? See if they have any leftover Silver Stars. If they're too small for you, maybe you can convince Jo? Then you may have enough for your Sporty (or your Silver Star? You did say you like unusual bikes, how unusual is a Sportster, really?)

Sam, you have a point, in that a Sportster is definently a main stream motorcycle. To be honest, it's not really the bike that is the selling point. See Iam a social rider, I don't like being a loner much and HOG seems's like the "family" I have always craved. Yes, I know it sounds stupid since "real motorcycle riders are independent, free sprited, lonewolf" types but Iam not! Plus Iam a real curious fellow, I have a need to explore each bike and find it's points good or bad and many of my friends ride H rleys and love em so maybe the majority "is right" or maybe they are full of !@#$ but it would be fun to find out! See my physical problems keep me out of my first love, SportBikes, I'd love to be able to ride a CBR1100XX but I can't except a few miles, what good is bike if you can't ride it!!! I can't afford a comfortable touring rig like a Voyager or Wing unless I buy a outdated discontinued model (ie: 1000, 1100 or 1200) unlike my Friend Frank, Iam not much for older bikes, don't want anything more than 5 years old "for my main riding bike"! The next step in the "comfort" zone for me is Cruisers and to be blunt, Harley has the style over anyother cruisers IMHO. Sam, I have looked at the MZ Skorpin model but the dealership sold out here and won't bring them back due to extreemly slow sales. This is my fear with buying the leftover Triumph Trident also. My Triumph dealer is "not a happy camper" as Triumph UK. basicly told the dealers to "shove it up their ass" when the price cuts started happening and I like being able to work local. It shows as Iam willing to "pay" the local harley dealer his "blackmail" money as I have had problems when I bought a bike at a out f town dealership and needed warrunty work done. See as stated if I decide that "Cruiser Style" is the way to go then it's "got to be a Harley" or I'd just as soon buy a "different style of bike"! Tailwinds, BJ

No Skorpions...No Silver Stars either? MuZ has discontinued the Saxon Tour and the Silver Star (a "retro" version of the Saxon), but I was told that they had a lot still in the showrooms (which is probably why they were discontinued!) I think you said that 500s were a bit small for you, but you also said that you like unusual bikes with style; a Silver Star sure fits that bill! Good luck with HOG! Then again, maybe you could get a used Virago 750 or 1100 and join RSTAR! (If this doesn't flush K out of the woodwork, I don't know what will!)

BJ, You seem to be saying that you personally need to experience the many different facets of motorcycling and that a Sportster & HOG is yet another facet you wish to enjoy. You are aware of the current price "situation" and have decided to do commerce with your local dealer. I say to you--good luck and to "enjoy the ride". The Sportster will provide you with memories of a lifetime!! I am sorry to hear about the ABATE members getting down on you for wearing a helmet. As a longtime ABATE member--I apologize for the stupidity of my brethren. Enjoy your new ride!! Hoop

BJ, your local dealers sound like royal pains in the ass! One wants exorbitant "setup" moneys, another you say wouldn't do warranty work because you didn't buy the bike there? Those are 2 of the Top Ten reasons for finding a different dealer and putting up with a commute there. With the Laverda, as you may imagine, the nearest real wrench was 1 hour/82 miles away. The Ducati guy is 48 miles away. The Guzzi guy is in another state. But getting honest compassionate attention is a priority that should come w th your investment, so it's worth the effort to hunt 'em down! My buddy bought his Ropad King at one guy and goes anywhere he wants for his stuff. Perhaps it depends on location differences, but I feel any Harley guy will welcome your business more than not at all.

BJ, don't get an 883. I've been reading some of my back issues of CW and Motorcyclist and I've come to a conclusion--you'll be selling it in a week. If the 883 didn't have "worse than a 125 thumper dirt bike" performance, it might be o.k., but the 883 just doesn't have performance that other bikes of the same displacement have. Not even close. Add to that the vibes (o.k., I know, you put like 40,000 miles on an XS650, but still--it's a pain). What you need is a full sized bike with full sized performance. If HD doesn't make one you can afford, I'd say go elsewhere.

I'm inclined towards Jon's opinion BJ. As I mentioned, between your size and style and my rather limited experience with things Harley, the small Sporty will leave you wanting to turn it over very quickly. Are there enough well-placed gas stops where you ride? Do those little buckhorns suit you? Do you mind being able to see your toes from the seat, since they'll be right below your elbow, etc.?

Points well taken Jon and Frank, well things change quickly here in Ondoland! Looks like Jo and I are getting matching Suzuki 800 Intruders. My local Suzuki dealer gave me a excellent deal on 2-left over 97's, has no dearler prep costs and is giving me cost+ 20% on accessiores for 3 months. I get 2-800cc cruisers for the price of one MSRP Harley-Davidson "Super Glide", just can't turn down such a excellent offer to keep our busines at the local dealer. Mines black and Jo's is red so as of Jan. we will be intruding on everyone's riding space, ha ha. I know it's not the Euro bike you all were hoping I'd buy but most of the Eurobikes I really want (ie:R1100RT) are forever out of my budget so Iam gona give cruisin a 100% try and who knows, might end up on a Valk someday, ha ha! Tailwinds, BJ

The 883 is looking more & more like the Harley for me...

I think you will enjoy the rides BJ... Get pics posted soon... COngrats...

Great BJ. You'll be "double matched" with Jo.

So much for blaming the bike for getting out rode... LOL

Shane, well Jo is such a "mellow rider" that I don't think it will be a problem, if it does there's always the aftermarket,ha ha. No way to send pictures, I use a Lowly Web Tv unit with no hopes of having "scanner capabilities" in the foreseeable future!! Too bad as adding a picture of the 2 of us to our humble website would be excellent. See it has to be set up as a URL. The web tv unit has no "hard drive" so I can't use FTP files either. It putts me around the WWW and as long as the site isn't in JAVA can usually access it ok! Figure on riding the 800 Intruder for a couple of years and the figure out weither to go to a Touring Cruiser or just trade in for a Kawasaki Voyager. As I head towards 50, comfort is becoming more a factor and having some serious "tunes" while riding the plains might be real excellent too! Tailwinds, BJ

No, Jo (by virtue of the fact she weighs half as much as you) will always blow you away (all else being equal).

Jon, you have no idea of what at "smell the roses" rider that my Jo is, ha ha! Fast is not something she cares about and she's very careful and cautious. So yes, I agree with you in a sciencetific way but in reality, "she's toast", ha ha! BJ

Glad you're going to get a ride BJ, and the choice is a nice one. You can always get an "associate" HOG membership from one of your HD buddies if you really want to join in. Sam, as far as your comment, I agree--the 883 would be an interesting bike for you. I disagree with Jon--the 883 can be made to kick butt with very little money, and vibes issue is way over-rated IMHO. In fact, if you read this year's CW feature article on middle-weight cruisers Jon, you will see that Cycle World editors actually picked the 883 Sportster as the best bike in their lineup, including the new Honda Shadow 750 ACE. Sportsters handle very well, they are light, stable, and solid. And if size is an issue, a set of forward controls and different bars can take care of that for most folks. If you want a small bike with broad shoulders, the 883 could be a great choice. Sportsters are exactly what the name implies--fun!

Right, but they said "The 883 is best, BUT it vibes, BUT it's slow, BUT", etc. They basically said a bunch of bad things about it then picked it. One of the worst reviews I've seen. I'm not saying the 883 is a bad bike, but it's a bad bike for anyone who's not a beginner. It's just not a real, full sized bike. Japan, on the other hand, does make some 800cc class bikes that are, the HD is just too small and slow to be a practical ride for an experienced rider like BJ, in my opinion. A 1200, now that's another story....

The 1200's no bigger...

It's lots faster, though. Size is all relative. ;-)

Ain't that the truth! In Jamaica, the largest bike Yamaha sells is the XV535! Honda's biggest bike offered (upon order, they have none in the showroom) is the CBR600.

The 883 seems to be HD's Camaro; not bad but most buy it to get the aura of something bigger down the line, and the price is the real 1st reason it's sold.. I think Harley makes it pretty clear as to it's entry level status, meaning that most trade up or surely use it as a personal customizing foundation for a narrower focus. I looked at an acquaintances' Intruder 800 last week and once you get close it's a pretty heavy piece of machinery; add some Jardines and bags and you're done.

Oh, I thought you liked CW Jon? How about MO? Here's what Motorcycle Online says about the 883 HD in their latest middle-weight shootout that included the Kaw Vulcan 800, the Suzuki Marauder, the Yamaha Virago 750, and the Honda Shadow ACE 750. It [HD 883] is the most powerful, and it has the most potential...it has the best rear brakes (actually the only one equipped with a disc) in the test. That, along with having the best ground clearance, handling, and being the most original, goes a long way. Further, the belt-drive system has a much longer service interval than a chain (80,000 miles). Bottom line is that the Sportster is not a complete motorcycle, it's a work in progress, waiting for your finishing touch. Versatility is the name of its game. The Sportster can be transformed into anything from a full-boat boulevard cruiser to a hot-rod canyon bullet (if you don't believe us, ask Jake Zemke, who recently beat out a field including 916s in Willow Springs' Unlimited Twins class on his de-restricted NASB Twin Sports racer). After eleven years in production, with just little improvements here and there, the Sportster has a larger aftermarket than anything without the word Softail in it. ...So you ask -- no scream -- again, "Second Place?" To that we shout an unapologetic, "Yes!" There you have it. MO picked the 883 as second only to the ACE, and by the thinest of margins--head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. In Jon's defense, they did mention the vibration on the Sporty as a negative, but it didn't outweight all the positives, of which there were many! Be a Sport!

I'd like a close look at that NASB bike. Beat a field of 916's? PYeah! Who the hell was riding them? ;oP

Powerful? I've ridden a '91 Sporty 1200 and its power was barely acceptable, in my opinion, for a bike of that size and displacement. The torque was fun, and it could launch hard off the line, but my measly old '83 Nighthawk 650 could hang with it. I can't imagine what the 883 is like. Almost everyone I've talked to says "slow". No, I don't particularly like CW or MO. The only moto pub I like is Motorcyclist. I read CW, but that's because I like bikes, not the mag. True, HD riders aren't looking for big power, but they do like big torque. And when it comes to torque, to use a cliche, there's "no substitute for cubic centimeters".

Oh, I agree about it being original. The 883 emulates HD only, it's not a knock off of someone else's style. I also don't doubt that it handles best too, as it's not really in the big cruiser vein, as the others were trying to be.

I tell you what, though. The best sounding event at the AMA race by far was the 883 race. That thunder just gets into your bones. The Ducati SBs were a close second, but one or two bikes is not the same as 20 open piped narrow angle V-twins all thundering away at the start. Awesome!

As far as power goes Jon, a stock Sportster can be tricked up for very litte $$. Oh, and when it comes time to sell and move up you don't lose your shirt or your wallet on the Sporty. In the meantime, I guess we'll just have to wait for Motorcyclist to pick the 883 in their next middle-weight shootout! ;-) FACTOID: The 883 is the #1 selling motorcycle in America!

It's very true. Lots can be done to soup them up. And it is the number one selling bike in America, although it seems like I see more Softails and Glides on the roads. That's odd.

I agree, Jon. When I rode my friend's 1200, I had to remind myself not to overdo the throttle for fear of launching a valve or some such. The bike "felt" gutsy, but the twisting didn't match my preconceptions. A good starter bike though.

Agreed, Frank, but BJ is far from a starter. It'll be interesting to see what he ends up with.

Frank said, "I'd like a close look at that NASB bike. Beat a field of 916's? PYeah! Who the hell was riding them? ;oP" Hee, some very disappointed riders I would presume! ;-) Actually, I think the basic point there was not whether or not a Sportster (in any form) can really hang with a 916--just that the Sportster can be made into the kind of bike YOU want--be it a laid back cruiser, a street fighter, or a canyon racer. Call it a Sportster EVO-lution!

I think that anything with 883 cc is bloody BIG! A Nighthawk 450 seems to me like something to grow into! Yet y'all consider 500s, 600s and even 750s small? Howzat? Motorcyclist did have a comparo with the "last" of the 750 Nighthawks (during the year that it was discontinued in the U.S.), an 883 Sportster, a Seca II, a Kawasaki EX500 and a Suzuki GS500. I don't remember how it was rated, but one thing that struck me was that it was the heaviest bike with the biggest engine and it had the best fuel economy! I still don't know how!

Frank said, "I'd like a close look at that NASB bike. Beat a field of 916's? PYeah! Who the hell was riding them? ;oP" Hee, some very disappointed riders I would presume! ;-) Actually, I think the basic point there was not whether or not a Sportster (in any form) can really hang with a 916--just that the Sportster can be made into the kind of bike YOU want--be it a laid back cruiser, a street fighter, or a canyon racer. Call it a Sportster EVO-lution!

Jon and Frank, lots of experienced and long-time riders are on Sportsters. I think Sportsters can be a good place to begin or end, depending on your own personal frame of reference. You don't need a Big Twin to ride tall!

I agree with Brad about what the Sportster , could,can and might be. Jon I bought a 800 Intruder leftover like Jo's only in a different color. The "Dealer costs of mark up and freight/prep" basicly was the "deciding factor" IN NOT BUYING THE SPORTY. The other factors were, "excessive vibrations" at a constant highway speed, no money in the budget to do the intial mods required to bring the power up. I plan on traveling and the Intruder was "much smoother". Frank hit the nail on the head, throw on some bags and a small windshield and the Intruder is ready to go (someday a nice set of aftermarket slip-ons for better breathing and a little more sound.) NO I don't want it to sound like a Harley, just a little more bark will surfice nicely! Last, if I had the bucks I was seriously looking at a left over 96 Kawasaki Voyager, comfort is starting to take priority over speed. Cruisers are comfortable and fun so it made good sense! So let's kill the dump on the Sportster vain and yes, it's a great bike but just didn't fit my personal situation at the time. To tell the truth if the "Dresser don't come into the future, a nice (Used) Harley Low rider (ie: Dyna RUBBER GLIDE) with vibration taming motor mounts could be in the future!!! Tailwinds, BJ

Whilst we are talking sporty's - does anyone know where I can get a steel trapdoor for an evo sporty gearbox? the stock aluminium ones flex under severe load and since Boss is putting a sidecar on his (and rides outfits like a maniac) it seems like a good idea to fit a steel one before he blows the casing to bits! (This is the man who bent the gearbox main shaft on a Triumph Bonnie outfit - attempting to do 100mph across Ashdown forest, he got an indicated 110 for 1/2 a mile before there was a big bang - but it got him home!) :) they in theory exist but I cannot find a supplier!

BJ--well said. Your future looks bright--hope you bought some shades to go with the new bike! hehe. BTW, I have a friend who just lucked into a very nice used black FXR--1990, 5,000 miles, well maintained, $10,000. Owner got married--poor bastard! ;-) Shebee, I will make a call this morning and see what I can find out on the trap. Stay tuned to this same Bat (Wing) channel! I hear they have a trap door in there--be careful, Detective!

thanks

For Brad's #170: The "experienced" Sporty riders I've met (not a blanket statement here), are frequently guys on a limited budget who bitch about the bike/results they end up with. A guy up the road here had 13 (!) Sportsters before buying a BMW-K! IMHO they seem the least satisfied of the HD clan, but are caught in a limited vicious circle somehow. After the carbs/exhaust change, it's the cams, then the ignition's gotta be dialed, then a different cam, then, then...heads, that's it! Then..

IMHO they seem the least satisfied of the HD clan Depends on why they buy the bike. If it is lack of funds for a Big Twin without regard to their own real needs, then yes, they may be dissatisfied. Just like folks who buy a Honda VLX when they really want an 1100 Shadow. At least with a Sporty, you have some alteration options. However, there are also a good number of folks buy them because they like them. And I have seen plenty of very nice Sportsters, that I wouldn't mind having myself. Shebee's mate has one--bet he isn't whining! A guy up the road here had 13 (!) Sportsters before buying a BMW-K! Sounds like he must have really liked Sportsters. I think after 13, I might try something else too. After the carbs/exhaust change, it's the cams, then the ignition's gotta be dialed, then a different cam, then, then...heads, that's it! Then.. Then what? Ride it till ya puke or sell it and move on! BTW, the S1 Lighting heads for the Buell are now available for Sportster owners for about $250! KA BOOM!!! NO WHINING!

That's interesting about the Buell heads. But what about the flywheel and cams changes? Wouldn't it be dumb to just swap in the heads alone? Tell us, Master Hogman! The thing about the 13 Sportsters, etc., is that these guys must love wrenching and tinkering more than they let on. I agree there's plenty of nice Sportsters. Know what I like? The 2 companies turning out the mini-STC's & FLH lookalikes based on the small motors. Neat!

Ya Frank, I imagine it would be much less effective to do the heads alone. I just happened across a post on MO indicating that they were now available. I think Eric Buell has shown with the right parts, a Sportster 1200 motor can give even experienced Sportbike riders a fun new twist (as well as a seriously sore butt!). Master Hogman? Hee, maybe when I grow up! I agree with you on the mini-Big Twins. Of course, guys are doing that all the time with the regular Sportsters. It's amazing what you can create from that basic bike. My god, IT'S ALIVE!

Okay.. Now that we have elevated Brad to HogMaster, Does anyone here remember a ground up sportster rebuild one could do called a "45 Magnum". If memory serves me correctly it was 1000 top ends on a 45 CID lower... I had the dang mag somewhere, my thought was the all of your statements are true about the versitility of the Sportster. In fact I consider the 900 to have been my first "Real" motorcyle. It had a lot of personality and best of all IT COOKED!!! hehehe I didn't mind that I had to manually advance for starts, the headlight was always too dim, there was never a decent electrical system, it was still FUN!! I am yet to ride a 1200 sporty but would love to give it a whirl...

Shane--try to get a test ride on a Buell S1 if you want to have some serious fun. I think a lot of dealerships allow Buell tests. Don't try that on any ordinary Harley! hehe Myself--I'd love to take a ride on that Sportster 900--sounds like a total BLAST from the past! As far as the 45 Magnum, can't help ya. Find your magazine and fill us in! Alex, I'll take Sportster trivia for $200 please!

Over here the 45 magnum was iron 900 heads on a 45 bottom end, but i cant se why not with the 1000, I always wanted to put a front cylinder + "thunder head" from a sportster on to an Ariel 500 botttom end - it will go with verry little machining - oh well another "somewhen" project!

Shane "Hot XL" magazine has the ads for that stuff.

Well, if I wanted a Harley (I did at first, but they don't appeal to me much any more) it would be a Sportster Sport. If that name isn't Harley's admission to how far away from the sporting vein the Sporty has gotten, I don't know what is. But the fun, super low end torque engine, fully adjustable suspension, and new larger tank (my '91 1200 riding buddy was afraid to turn down a back road unless he knew there was a gas station on it) would make it the best Harley going. But it's still a low tech design. I agree, though, that a Sporty could be turned into a 916 beater, but for the same money you could probably buy a 916. Let's see, first on the list--new frame. Next, toss the forks and suspension. Make some severe mods to the engine that give it 120 or so horses but cause it to be as reliable as a hand grenade without its pin. No doubt, it would be bad ass, but I wonder why you'd bother modifying a bike out of its element when you can buy a bike with the same sporting credentials new?

For some Jon, half the fun is in the creation. Not to mention that it is still a Harley Davidson (although personally, I love the Duc). Why? Because I can!

Can't imagin that most Harley owners are artists. Not the one that I see. Ther more show off people (but not all of them.) Mods and add-on cost LOT $$$$, after buying a big $$$$ bike. For those who make it a real passion, I agree. But it's not majority.

I really like the wife's (will be wife as of this Saturday) Sporty 1200 Custom. To me it's like a dirt bike with a bad attitude. Keep in mind I'm used to a 650 lb Springer. I wouldn't be able to ride it on a long haul 'cause I'm just too damn big for it. The vibes might get to you on a long haul as well, but for blowing around town it's great. The get up and go is incredible and all I've done is change the pipes (Python 3's) and rejetted the carb. It handles very well (for a HD)and it only weighs 500 lbs. Obviously it's not gonna handle like a Ducati or a ZX but then again it's not made to. I don't think that the 883 would have enough power after getting off a 1200 but then again I haven't ridden one. Goin on a long vaccation to Tahiti, Bora Bora, etc. Ahhhhh, warm weather. I'll see you guys when I get back. Dave Dave's Harley Page http://www.pipeline.com/~pc006

My bike is a 72 BSA Lighting that I have been riding/building for the last three years. It started as a box of engine parts I bought for a 100.00 lots of work and now I have a bike to be proud of. The bike's nickname is My Imagination,it was given to her by a co-worker because every winter I take a hacksaw out and add a little imagination to her. She now sits just over 8 feet long and 4 inchs off the ground, the rake is to extreme to comment, with a 15 inch over gurder and 21 inch front wheel, on the rear is a plunger set-up with a 15 inch wheel, the motor is a 650cc with mukune??? carbs, 40 over bore, boyer ignition and a few trade secrets. She is a blast to ride and turns some heads. Sorry that I can't send a pic. but if you pick up AWOL mag. she was featured in vol.6 no.3

Mikuni carbs?

Spelling is not one of my high points.

Totally classic chopper!

You don't see very many like that any more esp on a BSA platform.Did you you retain the oil in the frame or make your own oil tank.How is it for vibration?The post 71 models were rebalanced and suposed to be smoother. Happy TRAils/NSD Paul

The frame is hand made using the motor carrage from a 64 twin. As for the oil bag, I made a horseshoe by spliting a Harley tank and removing 1.5 inchs from the width and welding it back together. The motor was balanced to run best inbetween 3500 and 5500 rpm. Before this it was a vibration nightmare, my wife has a 65 Splitfire stocker and had the same problem with vibration i guess BSA didn't do a very good job with its crankshafts. Just as a note I would say that the 71-72 model motors were worse not better, have riden and worked on many within are coop. and the older bikes always seem to be smoother. But the 71-72 motor internals are a step-up.

Cool. The only Brit chopper I've ever seen was a BSA that was parked out in front of a bar up here in the hills o' Colorado. It was pretty rough looking, though.

Currently running a ZZ-R1100 (ZXR-11 to those on the American continent) and thouroughly enjoying it! May not be the most precise handling machine of all time but sure does shift. Mike

No, that's just a ZX-11 here, no R.

How bad can it handle for a big heavy powermeister? Tell us? I remember riding the KZ's, the 650 was do-able but the 900 scared hell out of me; I felt i could never think it through a corner, I had to pay close physical attention. The 750R I had for a short while was stable enough for it's bulk. A very decent sport-tourer.

Did someone say KZ??? Loved em all I did and owned a lot of em... GREAT BIKES!!! Glad to see some posting going on here since the X roads is so Network Unfriendly......

No, you've got a crummy network admin. He should be able to allow port 8080, which is the second most popular TCP port for web pages. XRoads isn't the only site using it and their using the proxy to unnecissarily cut off those addresses just doesn't make sense.

Y'know Shane riding the Pantah now, it's hard to believe I ran the Z650. Don't get me wrong I liked it a lot, but the size & weight difference is incredible. The power is actually comparable, both are smooth, and the midrange is really about the same, with the Duc feeling "fatter" somehow from the seat o' my pants. The later KZ's (after 78) were really good bikes.

8080 huh?? Well maybe I will look into it....but to call him crummy would be a bit much. (kinda hard to argue with the pay he makes) So, Why don't Xroads use the MOST popular port?? Frank, What do you think about discontinuing the 900SS?? Have you seen the pic of the 900SS FE?? Pretty cool!! Technology has definitely left the Old heavily muscled, under framed KZ's in the dust... they were bikes you had to RIDE though... And if you didn't ride em right they bit ya....

Then I'd get caught. "jonlind.intergram.com" takes you to a "mock up" of the corporate website that I (and my boss) use to test new ideas and make changes to the website before we put it up for the world to see. If my boss went to "jonlind.intergram.com" and saw XRoads instead of the corporate site mock up, he might not be happy. To "hide" it, I use port 8080. There's not much likelyhood of him thinking "gee, I wonder if Jon is doing something sneaky with port 8080?" Anyway, your guy may not be crummy, but this is not a unique problem and having port 8080 open poses no threat to the security of the network, so it might as well be there for you to use.

Shane I think a "porsche" is gonna happen in Bologna; there are enough 900SS fans to keep one model in some iteration going if there's enough clamoring.

1993 Honda CB750 Nighthawk. I have wanted a motorcycle for some time and finally convinced my mother to let me have one. I dropped my bike the first day I got it, and then made the mistake of letting a friend ride it later and of course, he dropped it. I fixed everything that was banged up and got it painted. I love this bike because it is the perfect mix between a cruiser and a sport bike. I can ride it at 120mph on the backroads and just recently rode 8.5 hours strait with only two ten minute gas stops and felt wonderful. This has become an addiction

Your answered the question I asked in topic 3! That's one smooth riding bike isn't it? How would you compare it to Honda's 8 cylinder monsters?