Jurassic Park

Competing with my Paleontology or Fossils Topics, or are we talking Live Dinosaurs???! *hugs* it is good to have you busy again in here *smile*

Actually, I wanted to use this topic to supplement yours and thought we could link the two up. Want to use this to explore the dinosaur age and whether or not the world is as old as "they" say it is. And to discuss theories as to what killed them off. A huge virus, meteor, what.....

OK, I'll add this to my request for linkup between Collecting rocks and Geo...

Cfadm may have to create a new Paleo topic in Geo since this one is written in and there in one post in my Paleo...which is easily dispensed with as it was not important. I think this is an exciting prospect. I have loved dinosaurs since I was very little and taken to the American Museum of Natural History in New York City. I still have my books about dinosaurs from when I was a kid!

Dinos are so cool!! Apparently new evidence shows that the T-REX lived in colonies. Don't you find that SCARY?? Imagine such mean animals in a pack! But apparently they weren't very nice to each other, and always picked on the smaller T-REX.

They were the ultimate killing machine of the Jurassic, and they helped evolution out a lot by getting rid of the lame, stupid and slow so they did not pass those genes on to their offspring. Whatever happened to Natural Selection?! I think we need to have it back...

We do. That's why bad people get away with being bad so often...

I'm afraid you are right...It seems as though they are propagating faster than the good folks of the world, as well.

Of course. Survival by means of depleting other people's means.

As soon as there were two people on the Earth, there was the problem of depleting the other person's means...if for nothing else than to eliminate the competition. Seems we were at it from the very beginning. It is amazing that we survive as well as we do! We are now linked to Geo. Happy thought, Indeed...so now we can legitimately discuss gastroliths and coprolites *grin*

You mean farting and burping?

They've found a completely intact mammouth and are planning on cloing the dna and inseminating an African elephant with it (I may have the details garbled, I heard it on the car radio a few days ago), but the gist is that mammouths will walk the earth again. Jurrasic Park is real.

You're late!

Terry, I think we discussed this on SpringArk 30 / Genetics:Animal Kingdom. I am really excited for them to do this and I hope they are successful. Not quite the Jurassic period, but far enough back that it piques our interest and imagination.

(Ri�tte)You mean farting and burping? If we are talking coprolites, it is long past the flaming point and into fossilization (wouldn't that make a nifty engagement ring stone?!), as for Gastroliths...yup! But belching stones is not a pleasant thing to contemplate. Bouncing around in your gut at that size could be the cause of more than gastric distress! It might knock two stones together, cause a spark and ignite the whole Dinosaur. BOOOOOOOOOM!!!!

I wish these intersecting topics would show as "read" in all the conferences once they are read in one of them. Can this not be done, Marcia, Terry?

When I enter a conference I do it like this: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/Geo/all/new after I have accessed them and I go to SpringArk or Collecting (to which Geo is linked - as well as News and Parents - I do the same using browse/all/new. The ones already read should not appear again on the other place since you have accessed it.

Well, so much for that. It did not work this time... Since each conference is independent one of the other it might be impossible to do what Gi requests.

i've wondered the same thing myself!

I have done some looking at yapp capabilities, and this seems to be too convoluted for it to handle.

Well, then, never mind! Some genius may think of that, though, the next time they write such a program :-)

I think it just might take an exasperated non-expert to write such a program. I have been thinking about it, but am far from the stage of making useful suggestions - so I keep plugging at it, and another program which would keep posts on private boards from general display...!

And, here I sit in telnet (actually double telnet) and am still coming up empty

I wonder if I Forget it in one conference will it be Forgotten in the other? Will try it. But then the object is defeated, which was to link to it from either conference.

Hmmm....I think it is conference specific, but not sure. Please report your findings on this matter!

I Forgot it on SpringArk but it still showed up in Geo.

Thank you! I was wondering, but since I am host on both of those conferences I did not think it would be a fair test.

And it is still forgotten in SpringArk. So now we know :-)

Aha again! Good to know these things. Thanks, again *hugs*

Mammoth Stuck Outside New Museum NORMAN, Okla. (Reuters) - A life-size bronze sculpture of an Ice Age mammoth is proving to be a mammoth headache for the University of Oklahoma, which has been unable to fit the beast through the doors of the country's newest natural history museum, officials said on Thursday. When the massive bronze, whose 12-foot (3.6-metre) tusks make up more than half its 23-foot (6.9-metre) length, arrived on Wednesday, workers discovered the head was eight inches (20 cm) too high to fit upright through the loading doors of the Sam Noble Oklahoma Natural History Museum. The new University of Oklahoma museum is a large state-of-the-art facility built to showcase a university collection that has spent decades scattered in buildings across campus and in dilapidated storage sites. It is due to open on May 1. ``It's going to be a big pain and a lot of guys are going to be working on it,'' museum spokeswoman Linda Coldwell said. ''But we will get it in.'' She said a large crane would be brought to the site and the sculpture would be turned on its side to fit through the door, ''like you'd bring a sofa into your living room, around the door frame.'' The sculpture is of an Imperial Mammoth, a species that lived more than 10,000 years ago. The bronze weighs 5,000 pounds (2,250 kg). It will be mounted in a display called the ``Pleistocene Plaza'' alongside bronze sculptures of an early Native American family encountering the beast, a scene which could have easily occurred on the site of the new museum around 12,000 years ago, Coldwell said. The sculpture, by Nebraska artist Fred Hoppe, is based on the bones of a mammoth found in the fossil beds of Lincoln County, Nebraska, in 1922.

Internet Auction Flogs T-Rex Bones for $5.8 Million SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - In a monster sale on the Internet, online auctioneers on Monday put a fossilized Tyrannosaurus Rex skeleton on the block with the opening bid set at $5.8 million. The fossil dubbed ``Mr. Z-Rex'' and boasting the largest male skull with the longest teeth of any T. Rex ever discovered is being jointly offered by online auction sites run by Lycos Inc. (LCOS.O) and Millionaire.com. ``The fossil is absolutely breathtaking,'' its discoverer, paleontologist Alan Detrich, said in a statement. ``This truly is the King of T-Rex's.'' The fossil was estimated to bring in between $10 million and $12 million, according to the auctioneers. A 1997 Sotheby's auction for ``Sue,'' a female T. Rex dubbed ``The Queen of T. Rex's,'' fetched $8.36 million, the highest price ever paid for dinosaur fossils. That purchase was made by a group led by Walt Disney Co. Chief Executive Michael Eisner on behalf of the Chicago Field Museum of Natural History. ``Mr. Z. Rex'' was discovered on Oct. 6, 1992 by Alan and Robert Detrich on a private cattle ranch in northwestern South Dakota. It is currently co-owned by Detrich Fossils and Fred J. Nuss Fossils, both Kansas-based paleontological groups. This is not the first time the massive fossil has been put up for sale over the Internet. In July 1999, Detrich Fossils offered the item over another online auction site, but the sale was scrapped after phony bidders put in too many illegitimate offers. The new sale will be limited to pre-qualified buyers, which could include natural history museums seeking to add the T-Rex to their attractions, company officials said. Appraisers have estimated that a T-Rex exhibit can boost museum revenues by as much as $40 million a year. ``When a significant boost in ticket sales is combined with revenue from souvenirs, casts of giant teeth, etc., the revenue from a T. Rex display could total millions of dollars per year, quickly earning back the original cost of the fossils,'' the companies' statement said. The auction, which closes on Feb. 10, is visible at www.auctions.lycos.com and www.millionaire.com.

that's absurd! is it a hoax?

Nope. Complete T-Rex skelatons are so rare that this is up for the highest price it can fetch. There is world-wide interest in this guy without any meat on his bones and probably not gastroliths or coprolites, either.

*wow*

Actually, if I am remembering correctly, this is the Only complete T-Rex skelaton ever found let alone successfully excavated. Btw, it is a female!

Was it "Sue"? Then, again, I think that that Sue was the largest T-Rex, though not complete...missed the exhibition - rats!

No name that I remember seeing. I guess that honor goes to the person or institution willing to shell out $5+ million for the privilege of taking her home. But, I have not gone to the websites holding the auction...have been busy posting about the eclipse instead. I have seen the one in the American Museum of Natural History which is by far the largest of the ones currently on exhibit in major museums. I was disappointed by the small size of the British Museum of Natural History's specimen. But, a T- ex is impressive in any condition...I would jump at the chance to see another specimen.

see, i don't understand why it's on the auction block. i thought those things were taken to museums not purchased. been to the natural history museum in d.c. and that thing was huge (the dinosaur, ok, the museum was too)

There is no law in this country that I am aware of which deals with "treasure" found on land not owned by anyone (is there such thing anymore?!). In Britain the discoverer can take possession and sell it to the highest bidder if it is lost property...anything dropped on the ground or lost by the owner. Finders Keepers. If it is buried or placed somewhere where the owner could reasonable be considered to return to use it, then it is in the custody of the state and as such it goes to the British Museum. e are a prickly bunch when it comes to the government taking things we discover in the wilderness - like Gold or dinosaur bones...!

I am all for things as unique as dinosaur bones or meteroites belonging to the nation and being kept in a museum for all to see. But, where do you draw the line??? It is almost a no-win situation!

wait, i didn't know the museums were govt run. i knew they got money, but the pieces were property of the museum and the general public, not the gov't. maybe i need to move to a smaller scale. finding an arrowhead is no big deal but finding a whole dinasour is just infathomable to me. can you imagine? my finding this thing in my backyard (of course, if i did, wouldn't that make headlines) and then what do i do with it? i dunno. just a question, not trying to start a fight! speaking of things we find in the wilderness, there are laws regarding the taking of certain feathers found lying about. the only "civilian" people allowed to take them are indians and then for ceremonial purposes. (of course, bird feathers are covered in mites and junk, so clean it really well!)

You will never get me to fight with you, Wolfie! *Hugs* is more like it =) I am just stating what exists in the world of archaeology...like the Dead Sea Scrolls and other things of that magnitude which should belong to all mankind. Most museums are run by a board of directors and get endowments from many sources. The Smithsonian is that way, but is also the Nation's repository of historically significant things. Most finds of the American Museum were by people hired to go out and find. Margaret Meade was on their payrole as was the man who did all of the dinosaur finds in Mongolia. Therefore his things belong to the museum. Other things, like the Hope Diamond were either sold or donated to the museum by their owners/discoverers I think all finds should be first the nation's and second the finder's...but this is the fight Mel Fisher is fighting over his gold salvage finds in the sea.

if i found something significant, depending on what it was as to whether i'd want to keep it, i'd definitely want credit for unearthing the thing. perhaps the idea behind musuems and such is to preserve it for mankind and to take ownership away. i don't know. i thought archeology was for everyone's benefit. i guess there's the "pirate's treasure" deal going on for folks. to me, that's just greed. but i'd sure be tempted to keep it, am only human (thank goodness) just hate how things get exploited for t e sake of the almighty dollar. who's got $5M to lay out for some dinosaur bones anyway? what are they gonna do with it? put it in the foyer of their castle and hang christmas lights off of it? it belongs in a museum or such place so people can take a gander and see it to know that it's real IMMHO. i'd love to see it and touch the bones and know that this thing used to be alive. i'd love to pet the mammoth and feel the texture of it's fur and know that that thing, too, was alive.

I agree! Put most eloquently, Wolfie...you expressed the frustration we all feel who care about these things. I am afraid the altruism which once was the rule in the world is long gone. It is now, "What's in it for me?" and getting worse by the moment!

Found this interesting article which addresses some of our worst fears: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 Fossil may be biggest T-rex ever Last modified at 1:36 a.m. on Wednesday, September 17, 1997 HELENA, Mont. (AP) -- What may be the largest Tyrannosaurus rex fossil ever found has been unearthed on a Montana cattle ranch, touching off a dispute over who has claim to the site. University of Notre Dame paleontologist Keith Rigby said identification of the fossil is not yet complete, but if it is not a T-rex it may be a completely new variety of dinosaur -- and the largest meat-eater ever found. "There is some possibility that it may be new, and T-rex may have to become 'T-who?"' Rigby said Tuesday. Rigby said he found a pubis bone, one of three bones in the pelvis, that measures at least 52 inches, compared with 48 inches in the largest T-Rex fossil ever measured. However, the femurs, or thigh bones, which paleontologists normally use to estimate the size of dinosaurs, are still unexcavated. The find is "exciting, but not earth-shattering," said J. Michael Parrish, a dinosaur expert at Southern Illinois University. He said only a couple of dozen T-rex specimens are known and the largest size keeps changing, but that Rigby is probably right that his would be the biggest T-rex known. Parrish said other carnivores found recently in South America and Africa are thought to be larger than a T-rex, but comparisons among species are difficult. Rigby said he was forced to reveal the find before the fossil could be confirmed because of an unauthorized excavation over the weekend, which prompted federal agents to intervene to keep bones from being taken away. James Rector, a lawyer who has been helping Rigby, said he saw two sons of the former landowner and other relatives using a tractor to dig at the site on Sunday. Rector said he alerted the FBI and the federal Farm Service Agency, which owns the land. No one was arrested, but the FBI is investigating. Rector said he asked Steve Walton, a son of former landowner Edmund Walton, what he intended to do with the bones and the man replied: "I'm going to save my farm and feed my children." T-rex fossils can be extremely valuable. A 50-foot fossil nicknamed Sue, which was found in South Dakota in 1990, is expected to bring more than $1 million when it is auctioned next month at Sotheby's in New York. Rigby said he began work at the Montana site more than a year ago with permission of people who claimed to own the land, but he later became suspicious. He said he did a title search and found that FSA took ownership of the land several years ago. Two men who identified themselves to The Associated Press in separate calls as Steve Walton and his cousin, Fred Walton, said Tuesday the group did not take anything from the site and were there merely out of curiosity. Both said ownership of the land is still in dispute and they might be entitled to some money from the dinosaur find. A similar fight was waged over Sue, one of the most complete T-Rex fossils ever found. It was seized by the government in 1992 from Peter L. Larsen, the fossil dealer who excavated it. The government said the land where Sue was found was under federal jurisdiction and off-limits to Larsen. Sotheby's is selling the fossil on behalf of the Sioux Indian on whose ranch Sue was found.

The T-Rex Fossil The fossil, currently owned by Detrich fossils, a Kansas-based paleontological group, contains the most perfect skull and largest teeth (some measuring 13 inches) ever discovered. The fossil is nicknamed Mr. Z-Rex in honor of the owners of the private property where the fossil was discovered. Bids for the T-Rex are beginning at $5.8 million. Appraisers believe a T-Rex fossil of this quality can bring an additional $40 million in permanent, annual revenue to the museum that acquires it. Mr. Z-Rex was discovered on October 6, 1992 by paleontologists Alan & Robert Detrich while exploring fossil deposits on a private cattle ranch in northwestern South Dakota. The skull was found in a sand formation. It is thought that the T-Rex died on the sandy shoreline of a prehistoric river, sea or lake. Mr. Z-Rex has the best skull with the largest teeth I have seen. The fossil is absolutely breath-taking. This truly is the King of T-Rex's - a paleontologist's dream come true. -Alan Deitrich -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The specimen was excavated according to professional standards and transported without damage. Skeletal elements have been exposed by partial preparation from the original undersurface of three major blocks. These blocks contain, respectively, the skull, the presacral vertebrae, and elements of the hind limbs and anterior portion of the tail. Great care was taken to collect all fragments of bone from from the locality, which may permit the reassemblage of several bones which would otherwise have been lost. Stabilization of the skeletal parts will present no unusual problems, and the extraction of the bones from the sediment in which they are preserved will vary from relatively easy to requiring considerable skill. Details Length of skull 1370 mm Length of tooth row, left maxilla 560 mm (approximately) Length of tooth row, left dentary 530 mm Length of articulated cervicals from the anterior zygapophysis of C4 to the posterior zygapophysis of C10 985 mm Length of dorsal 4-6 taken at base of transverse processes 393 mm Length of posterior dorsal vertebra 140 mm Height of posterior dorsal vertebra 653 mm Length of 13 articulated caudal vertebrae 2780 mm Length of centra of two isolated caudals 152 and 132 mm Length of femur 1330 mm Circumference of femur 588 mm (indicating a weight of 5.5 metric tonnes) Length of fibula 965 mm (approximately) Length of metatarsal II 620 mm Length of metatarsal III 750 mm Length of metatarsal IV 640, 655 mm Length of phalanx r-1 120 mm The total length of the reconstructed skeleton is estimated to be approximately 10.8 m (35 feet). The total reconstructed height at the hips is estimated to be approximately 3.45 m (11.35 feet).

I wonder if this will affect the price of the one being auctioned now: BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) � Scientists working in the remote Patagonia region of Argentina say they have discovered partial remains of what may be the largest dinosaur species on record. Carlos Munoz, director of the Florentino Ameghino Museum of Natural Sciences, said Thursday a team of paleontologists unearthed the bones of a huge plant-eating dinosaur thought to have roamed Earth some 105 million years ago. The dinosaur is believed to have stretched between 157 and 167 feet from head to tail and weighed more than 10 tons. The creature is said to have been 27 feet longer than the 100-ton Argentinosaurus, considered by some experts to be the largest dinosaur ever recorded. The new dinosaur, which had a small head and a lengthy tail, has yet to be named or classified, Munoz said. Munoz said scientists working on a tip from a villager found a femur and two parts of a vertebra. The pieces of cervical vertebrae were nearly four feet high, he said. ``This is a spectacular find,'' said Munoz, whose team of nine students is still working in the remote area near the city of Neuquen, 640 miles southwest of Buenos Aires. Munoz said his team would continue to dig until the end of the month before returning to the museum to clean and classify what they uncovered. The scientists plan to officially release their findings in March in an Argentine paleontology magazine. John McIntosh, a dinosaur expert at Wesleyan University in Middletown, Conn., said in a telephone interview that if the new creature truly did reach 167 feet in length, ``it certainly would be the largest dinosaur yet recorded.'' But paleontologists say there are different ways of measuring the biggest dinosaur, which might add some controversy to the Patagonia discovery. Though possible shorter, the 100-ton Argentinosaurus would have been as much as 10 times heavier than the new dinosaur, according to scientists' estimates. And in November, researchers at the University of Oklahoma reported the discovery of a 60-ton, 60-foot tall giraffe-like creature that lived 100 million years ago along an ancient seacoast in what is now the south-central United States. Those measurements would give that dinosaur, called Sauroposeidon, the greatest height and longest neck � 40 feet � of any recorded species, researcher Richard Cifelli said.

i heard about that one on the news and for some reason thought this and the one up for auction were the same. guess i was wrong! a 40 ft long neck?

You don't want to imagine a sore throat... Annette...Response 45 is about Sue. I Finally found the female. T-Rexes are very confusing. They all look alike...

LOL, the female of the species is the largest (T-Rexes, guys! :-) )...but, it seems there might could have been different sizes within the species, male and female. I am digging desperately for an article that I cut out of our local newspaper, last year, re: the unearthing of a specimen which appeared to be T-Rex, at first, but, the head resembled that of a crocodile! I think that the dig took place in or around the Gobi desert. This species was thought to have actually used it long jaws to pluck fish and other small animals out of the rivers, similar to herons, and other water bir s...birds...?? (*wink!) Does anyone remember reading about that or seeing anything regarding it?

http://jurassic.unicity.com/ Good Luck! ;)

I have no memory off-hand regarding the incredible crocodile-headed dino, but I would not be surprised. The Gobi Desert is where most of the American Museum's fossils came from including that gigantic T-Rex I remember from childhood. Once upon a time it must have been one enormous swamp teaming with animals I do not ever wish to meet tooth-to-tooth. Thanks for the URL...

Has anyone tried the game, yet? (the URL that I listed above...) I am not much of a gamer, which probably explains why I keep getting eaten by the Velociraptor...! Seems I can't make it to the next level...oh, well...maybe that is my fate, being lunch for the raptor, and all...;)

No..I don't dare. That is not my thing, and if I get going on it I could really mess up my latent Carpal-Tunnel problem. Typing for 16 hours a day is about all I can handle. Not much of a gamer, actually, but I'll bet there are some out there with kiddies who might like to try it. *lol* You must be very tasty!!!

ok, this may be old news (haha, a pun, get it?), today's paper has an article about finding a carnivorous dinosaur larger than t-rex, 45 ft bigger! can you imagine? the bones were found on the eastern slopes of the andes in south america.

I heard that on the radio yesterday and spent considerable amount of time chasing it down. Never did find out anything before we had to leave for Baseball. Thanks for posting at least that much. Oxymoron for sure about the old news. *grin*

ok, then here's the whole article from the shreveport times: Scientists have discovered the bones of what could be the largest meat-eating dinosaur ever to walk the Earth--a needle-nosed, razor-toothed beast that may have been more terrifying than even the Tyrannosaurus Rex. A team of researchers from Argentina and North America unearthed the fossilized bones of as many as six of the previously unknown species in Patagonia, a desert on the eastern slopes of the Andes in South America. The discovery of the predators' graveyard challenges the theory that the largest meat-eaters were loners. It also raises the possibility that they lived and hunted in packs--which would make them even more terrifying to their prey. "You always think of these things as being solitary--now we know they traveled in packs," said Philip Currie, one of two scientists to make the discovery. He works with the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Alberta, Canada. Currie said the newly discovered species lived about 100 million years ago, and was heavier and had slightly shorter legs than the T-rex, which roamed North America. It had a tail and short front legs that were basically useless. The dinosaur also was characterized by a long, narrow skull and a jaw shaped like scissors. That suggests it could have dissected its prey with an almost surgical precision, "where the Tyrannosaur had a nutcracker skull," Currie said. Researchers estimated the meat-eating giant was 45 feet longer, bigger than the reigning king of the carnivores, the 41-foot Gigantosaurus. The better-known T-rex was about 40 feet long. "I think it would look just as nasty, if not worse," Currie said. She said the animal is apparantly related to the Gigantosaurus, but it's a new species and genus. ----- maybe i can find something on line. all msn news shows is stuff about the sun.

Must have been difficult to have been such a huge beast with so many useless bits.

Post a picture or send it to me and I'll post it if you find one. I have to leave for the Softball games in a little while. Thanks for the article. Amazing!

Maybe it dined on siesmosaurus, one of the largest herbovorous dinosaur fossils ever found.

here is a rendition of the new beast, thanks to abcnews.com Courtesy of Robert F. Walters/Dinosaur Productions/AP Photo

Thanks wolfie. That critter is mostly head! An eating machine!

I wonder how those things managed to balance. I mean, it's got a huge head, it's arms are useless and it seems have such an akward spine. How could the spine hold all that weight? Amazing though, isn't it? Did you see that computer animated series about the dinosaurs? THat was GREAT!

Ree, that computer animated series WAS great. I hope they run it again! Speaking of such, on Discovery Channel this evening they are uncovering the Mammoth live from Siberia. Check your local schedules to see when it is on - it starts here at 6pm and re broadcasts at 9pm. It runs about 3 hours.

that mammoth show is on right now (7-9CST)....will catch the beginning again at 9CST (back to back showing)

Thanks for that, Wolfie. I'll catch it at 6pm HST ( which is 11pm Eastern)

not a problem! they've got it out of the ice right now and showing his fur. amazing!!

Wow! Can't wait!....Must be really neat!

yeah, the stuff they've found is amazing. but am not gonna let the cat outta the bag, you'll just have to wait!

*sigh* we are always the last to know...*sigh* *Grin*

actually, i figured you'd be watching this right now too.

"Walking with Dinosaurs" will premiere on the Discovery channel on Apr 16. be there!!

Remind me again and I will be there! It starts in 4 minutes so logging off for the eveing.. G'night, Wolfie! It was great again *hugs*

so didja like it? (i was unable to watch the second showing)

I really loved it. I was spellbound and all nervous that they would not get it out of the pit before winter set in again... Thanks for not giving away the ending. When it was over I was all elated and looked over at the house male and said how much I had liked it. He said it was boring. Back to the computer! This man is clueless...*sigh* I can't wait till they let us know what they did discover from tests and such.

the news just reported that monkey bones the size of a human thumb have been discovered in China. they say that this may change the way they look at how monkeys evolved and later humans (!!)....anyway, the bones are very very old (didn't catch how old they were)...

L O N D O N, March 15 � Scientists have discovered 45-million-year-old foot bones in China from an extinct primate that may fill in a missing branch of the evolutionary tree. Paleontologist Dan Gebo of Northern Illinois University said Wednesday the tree-dwelling, mouse-size animal, called Eosimias, could solve the hotly debated issue of the origins of higher primates � monkeys, apes and humans. �These fossils for the first time actually bridge that anatomical gap between the lower primates and the higher primates,� Gebo said in a telephone interview. Fossil Provides Crucial Link Contrary to expectations, the bones of Eosimias were found in Asia, not Africa, and they are older and tinier than scientists thought they would be. Until now only jaws and teeth of Eosimias had been found. �These fossils are much smaller than what other people had been thinking about in terms of the ancestral condition of higher primates,� said Gebo. On the evolutionary tree, the creatures are somewhere between prosimians such as lemurs and tarsiers, which leaped and clung to trees, and anthropoids such as monkeys, apes and humans, which walk on four or two limbs. �They are half prosimians and half anthropoids. They really do make that connection. Much of the debate in the field has been to figure out which of those early prosimian fossil primates gave rise to anthropoids,� he said. �We needed something that is 50-50 and that�s what we think Eosimias is.� Gebo and other scientists from the United States and China discovered the fossils in a limestone quarry 100 miles west of Shanghai and along the Yellow River, about 350 miles southeast of Beijing. The finding was reported in the science journal Nature. Complex Anatomical Features The lack of physical evidence led to doubts about whether Eosimias was a primate, and if it was, where it fit into the family tree. �The most interesting aspect of these new foot bones is that they represent a mosaic,� Gebo said. �They possess primitive lower-primate features as well as several advanced or higher-primate characteristics.� Scientists from the Carnegie Museum of Natural History in Pittsburgh, Northwestern University Medical School in Chicago and the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology & Paleoanthropology in Beijing contributed to the study. the above was from abcnews.com

Fascinating stuff - thanks for posting it, Wolfie! At least it will show which way one branch of primates went...!

maybe they're related to the marmosettes (sp?).....

or lemurs or other little primates witht he big starey eyes which l@@k so cute.

can you imagine how cute these guys must've been?

Incredible! I am smiling just thinking about them!

they have a terrible rendition of what the monkey might look like on msnews but i'm not gonna post it. the one on tv was cuter!

found a pic of the new monkey (that was on abc news):

can you imagine a primate this little?

i believe tamarins are the smallest primates existing today. they'll fit in your hand.

That is Teeny indeed! Looks like the plastic ones kids get. It is adorable. I guess tamarinds are the tiniest ones now. How enchanting! Thanks for posting the picture - I had not seen it!

here's an informative website on the golden tamarin, who, btw, is an endangered species. i'll copy this info over to our ape topic as well. http://www.si.edu/glt/facts.htm

Cute and furry little dickens, isn't he?!

Space Science News for March 21, 2000 Scientists have discovered molecular buckyballs containing extraterrestrial helium from the era of the dinosaurs. The find comes from the global Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary layer. FULL STORY at http://spacescience.com/headlines/y2000/ast21mar_1.htm Buckyballs from Outer Space

what in the heck is a buckyball?

Have you ever seen a geodesic dome on a sports arena or some such thing? Buckminster Fuller, an engineer/architect invented the structure and it has been since applied to all sorts of physics and chemistry. (I have a caller bugging my phone and I do not get them out here very often. Sorry if I sound rattled...I am!) I'll check it out on the web and post a picture!

Saying that about the geodesic dome, if you go to that URL I posted, you'll see the similarity. " Fullerenes -- better known as "buckyballs" -- are hollow, cage-like molecules made of carbon atoms. They are named in honor of Buckminster Fuller, designer of the geodesic dome that resembles the molecule. This image shows how extraterrestrial gases such as helium can be trapped inside the fullerene cage. One view shows a broken bond, or open "window," with an atom moving out through window. " http://spacescience.com/headlines/y2000/ast21mar_1.htm

This isn't exactly right here but since David attenborough is the dinosaur bloke I guess it fits. I've added an brit/US glossary at the end.Film director Lord Attenborough locks himself out of his car and flies into a panic because he has an important ceremony to attend. Luckily his brother David passes by, and the movie-maker is certain he�ll have a good suggestion to get him out of the scrape. �oh, darling, just in the nick of time! With all the horrible places you have had to visit, you must have learned a few survival tricks. Can you get me into my car?� �No problem, stand aside� says Sir David. Then he steps forward and begins rubbing his trouser leg up against the car door. Within a few seconds there is a click and the door is opened. �Darling David, you�ve done it! � declares the delighted Dickie. �But do tell me, were you taught the secret by some isolated tribesman?� �No, not really� said his smiling brother. �You were just lucky that I am wearing my khaki trousers�. (Key: Richard Attenborough � movie director; David Attenborough � naturalist and �walking with dinosaurs� etc. movie maker. Trousers = pants. Khaki � dullish green colour, pronounced �car key� in Brit English)

LOL....You had me going until I wondered about the Khaki trousers (we call'um trousers too, on occasion, and Khaki is a very popular color here now as is olive drab (probably what you call khaki!) Thanks for another chapter in the Attenborough saga.

Actually, more Americans might be curious about two men calling each other "darling"...!

Didn't you know - they're luvvies!!! IMHO all theatre people do it! ALL the time!

...and they call eachother by diminutive names...dickie...larry...ralphy (you might know of whom I speak if you are a certain age and all that...!

who me??

Ah, you did not read all of Olivier's books then?!

books? - i thought he was an actor?

Oh, My Dear! He was the first great love of my life. He wrote two books and I have about 7 others written about him. An actor? That's like saying Shakespeare was a writer or that Beethoven wrote music...*sigh* But, that is where I learnt about luvvies (though they were not called that when they were written)

I never knew that. I did sort of grow up with the teatre though. Wrote, produced and danced in my own ballet - the little mermaid.

I AM impressed! Bet you were just as cute as the proverbial button, too *grin*

Gave it up when I was sixteen - back injury. gotta sweet photo somewhere I'll dig it out.

I read somewhere that "khaki" was British Army slang for, ahem I'll be polite, crap. It got the name when when the Army stopped wearing their famous red coats and the new uniforms where this beige sort of color. The soldiers thought the color was like that of crap.

Kaka is babytalk for it over here... think it was a contribution of another language other than English, though.

Probably, the word was borrowed from another language. I think the khaki uniforms were first issued by the British Army to soldiers in India.

Indeed! I just looked it up and it is Hindi for "dust-colored" in my Webester's Collegiate Dictionary.

olive drab is the perfect color of baby stuff. and that's what we wear all over....khaki is tan over here and rather a nice color when compared to olive drab *smile*

Got that right, wolfie. On all counts, actually. I uderstand the wisdom of making uniforms the color of dirt in the locality - especially in a very dry area. However, wonder why they thought you'd get "baby stuff" all over you in the military - who uses olive drab more than any other color, I think!

I guess i really started something here!! *grin*

Just a little off-topic conversation to entertain us until the next dinosaur makes the newspaper and some kind soul posts it in here *grin*

actually, the bdu (battle dress uniform) is effective in camoflauge. there are also desert uniforms that are various shades of khaki.

OK here's the latest dinosaur dropping courtesy of The Times newspaper. One of the world's most important dinosaur skeletons has bee offered for sale over the internet for �15 million in a move that has appalled archeologists who fear historic specimens are being lost to private collectors. Alan Detrich and American fossil dealer, spent 2 half months digging up a 41 foot long 16 geet high tyrannosaurus rex with his brother, and is keeping it in his store house at Bend Point, Kansas. He claims to be close to selling what he says is the finest male tyrannosaurus in the world to a private buyer. Dietrich found the skeleton in south Dakota.'We found it in clay and sand which is why it is so well preserved' he said. 'We haven't cleaned it up yet becuase we figure the new owner can make money out of getting poeple to pay to see it being cleaned and prepared.' Paleontologists blame films and documentaries such as Jurassic park and the BBCs Walking with Dinosaurs for boosting the market in fossils. Many specimens for sale come from the American West where large numbers of fossils are found. However, fossils from britain's premier dinosaur site on the Isle of Wight have disappeared from digs in the past few months while paleontologists were still working on the sites. Scientists are calling for tighter controls, and want the law which at present covers man-made archeological objects to be extended to the collection of fossils.

Thanks, Maggie. Think that is the one we were discussing should belong to all mankind rather than some odd collector with more money than social conscience. There must be a huge black market in such finds - something I cannot imagine! Check Geo 2 for an interesting picture of Geologist David from his college days.

went and saw. how brave or crazy it must be to live near the vent (wrong topic but....)

That is what we say when other volcanoes are erupting...then people look at us and shake their heads.... But, ours is so well-mannered...so far...

We're just a few dinosaurs short of a full tank By DAVE BARRY If you've been to a gas station lately, you have no doubt been shocked by the prices -- $1.67, $1.78, even $1.92. And that's just for Hostess Twinkies. Gas prices are even worse! Americans are ticked off about this and with good reason, our rights are being violated! The First Amendment clearly states: "In addition to freedom of speech, Americans shall always have low gasoline prices, so they can drive around in 'sport utility' vehicles the size of minor planets." And don't let any so-called "economists" try to tell you that foreigners pay more for gas than we do. Foreigners use metric gasoline which is sold in foreign units called "kilometers," plus they are paying for it with foreign currencies such as the "franc," the "lira" and the "doubloon." So in fact, there is no mathematical way to tell WHAT they are paying! But here in the US we are definitely getting messed over and the question is, what are we going to do about it? Step one, of course, is to file a class-action lawsuit against the cigarette companies. They have nothing to do with gasoline, but juries really hate them, so we'd probably win several hundred billion dollars. But that is a short-term answer. To truly solve this problem, we must understand how the oil business works. Like most Americans, you probably think that gasoline comes from the pump at the gas station. Ha ha! What an idiot. In fact, the gasoline comes from tanks located UNDER the gas station. These tanks are connected to underground pipelines which carry large oil tankers filled with oil from the Middle East. But how did the oil get in the Middle East in the first place? To answer that question, we must go back millions of years to an era that geologists call the Voracious Period, when giant dinosaurs roamed the Earth eating everything that stood in their path, except for broccoli which they hated. And then, one fateful day (Oct. 8), a runaway asteroid, believed by scientists to be nearly twice the diameter of the late Orson Welles, slammed into the Earth and killed the dinosaurs, who by sheer bad luck all happened to be standing right where it landed. The massive impact turned the dinosaurs, via a process called photosynthesis, into oil. This oil was then gradually covered with a layer of sand, which in turn was gradually covered by a layer of people who hate each other and thus the Middle East was formed. For many years, the Middle East was content to supply the United States with as much oil as we wanted at fair constitutional prices. But then the major oil-producing nations -- Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait and Texas -- got all snotty and formed an organization called OPEC, which stands for "North Atlantic Treaty Organization." In the 1970s, OPEC decided to raise prices, and soon the United States was caught up in a serious crisis -- The Disco Era. It was horrible. You couldn't go to a bar or wedding reception without being ordered onto the dance floor to learn "The Hustle." At the same time, we also had an oil crisis which was caused by the fact that every motorist in the United States was determined to keep his or her automobile gas tank completely filled at all times. As soon as your gas gauge dropped from full to fifteen-sixteenths, you'd rush to a gas station and get in a huge line with hundreds of other motorists who also had nearly full tanks. Also a lot of people, including me, saved on heating oil by buying kerosene space heaters which enabled us to transform a cold, dank room into a cold, dank room filled with kerosene fumes. Buying gas and dancing "The Hustle" with people who smelled like kerosene -- that was the seventies. So anyway, the oil crisis finally ended and over time we got rid of our Volkswagen Rabbits and replaced them with Chevrolet Suburbans boasting the same fuel economy as the World Trade Center. Now, once again, we find ourselves facing rising gas prices and the question is this time, are we going to learn from the past? Are we finally going to get serious about energy conservation? Of course not! We have the brains of mealworms! So we need to get more oil somehow. As far as I can figure, there's only one practical way to do this. That's right, we need to clone more dinosaurs. We have the technology, as was shown in two blockbuster scientific movies, "Jurassic Park" and "Jurassic Park Returns with Exactly the Same Plot." Once we have the dinosaurs, all we need is an asteroid, or, if he is available, Marlon Brando. If this plan makes sense to you, double your medication dosage, then write to your congressperson. Do it now! That way you'll be busy when I siphon your tank.

During the Voracious Period the broccoli plants were the size of oak trees and you should have seen those cabbages. Why do Americans think it their undisputable right to have access to cheap gasoline?

Cheryl, it is a complex problem. The US produces a great deal of oil. Alalska alone could supply us pretty well, but we cannot use it in the US - all of it is marked for export to Japan. (Don't ask!!). You don't think it is manipulated like DeBeers manipulates the prices of diamonds? Sooner or later we are gonna have to give up being greedy and share what we have - or use our own. America has rich natural resources. That is why. it is here and cartels are getting rich over selling cars which burn huge amounts of the stuff when they have already built the engines which would put them out of business. Power and Control. Don't blame the American tax-payers so quickly. It is a very difficult and tortuous situation. I'd be interested in hearing your suggestions on how to rememdy this problem.

Maybe it's just a crazy theory, but could it be that George W's dad called on his Gulf War cronies to jack up the prices while his son runs for election? Bush can't win in a sparkling economy.

Anything is possible, including your idea. It did not occur to me...but it certainly is plausible...scary!

Just a crazy idea. But who knows?

Indeed! Crazier things than that have happened. All's fair in love, war, and politics, I hear...!

John agrees that with such high stakes, anything goes; nothing is outside of the realm of possibility.

Protesters Knock 'Cents' Into Oil Company TORONTO (Reuters) - The annual meeting of Canada's biggest oil company, Imperial Oil Ltd., was disrupted briefly when protesters showered shareholders and directors with pennies. ``Outrageous! Esso penny pinches while Torontonians choke!'' yelled one person protesting the high sulfur content of Imperial's gasoline, marketed under the Esso brand. Exxon Mobil Corp. of Irving, Tex., owns 69.6 percent of Imperial. Imperial and several other Canadian oil companies have warned the Canadian government that implementing new, lower sulfur, regulations for gasoline would result in higher gas prices. Gasoline sold in Canada now has some of the highest sulfur levels among industrialized countries and Esso gas has the highest levels of sulfur in Canada, according to figures supplied to the government by Imperial. ``Come on Imperial can't afford to spend a penny a liter to clean up the gasoline, reduce smog and protect our children from asthma? Nonsense!'' three protesters shouted Thursday. Imperial Oil maintains it meets current government standards and is working to meet new requirements for cleaner gasoline by 2004, a year ahead of schedule. Lobby group Friend of the Earth said sulfur particles spewed from cars are the most health-damaging component of smog. The lobby group is calling for a boycott of Esso gasoline in the heart of summer driving season between Earth Day, April 22, and Labor Day. Sulfur in gasoline causes increased emissions of sulfur dioxide and sulfates particles from cars which can contribute to asthma, chronic heart or lung disease, said Trevor Hancock, chair of the Canadian Association of Physicians for the Environment, in a statement. The protesters were escorted out of the meeting without further incident. ``Well, for long time attenders, that was a change of pace,'' said Imperial Oil chairman Bob Peterson.

Excuse me while I atempt to get my virtual foot out of my virtual mouth. I do take your point Marcia that American tax-payers have been and are continuing to be manipulated by businessmen and politicians. It's like Eisenhower said in his farewell speech as president, "Beware of the military-industrial complex." I also know something of advertising and marketing. The American consumer is courted by the safety factor in driving an SUV. Yes, you are statisically and realistically safer in a larger vehicle than a small one. That is an important point, and it well used on consumers. Mass transit and rail travel were eviscerated in the US from circa 1946 through 1960 by the automobile industry. What was good for General Motors was good for America. GM wanted the interstate system and they got. The ruse which Congress used was National Security. The roads were there for use by the Army in case of national emergency. The laws were passed, the land appropriated. The dream of two cars in every garage. The most famous of the mass transit scandals was the Red Car Scandal in Los Angeles. It's hard to believe but Los Angeles once had the most enviable mass transit system in America. The trolleys went everywhere, and the ran every 8 to 10 minutes. So this is the lifestyle of enormous petroleum consumption to which Americans have been conditioned by many factors. About the assertion that George W's daddy might have his cronies in the oil business pulling strings to affect the presidential election -- scary stuff. It is, however, plausible. The elder Bush was once the head of the CIA.

Excellent points, Cheryl! (You did not have your foot in your mouth - you were provoking discourse!) As a non-driver (yup, there are still some of us out here) and on a finite island with everything fuel brought in by ship, we are very aware of the crippling effects of things we cannot control - such as strikes by longshoremen and such - and that we are at the mercy of the big boys when it comes to petroleum prices. We can hardly drive to the next state or the next island, for that matter for better prices. I would put nothing beyond the rich and powerful. Thanks for that well-considered post, dear!

You don't drive, wow! I never knew that. I guess it's easy to get around on a small island with a bike or a bus. One of my room mates at Quail Creek, Dora, walks or takes the bus everywhere. She got a job at Dell, which is real close by the house. Dora cleans the pool, mows the lawn, cleans the bath rooms, and vacuums the carpets. She was just out by the pool cleaning the bbq grills and the tarp. We like having Dora around here!

You did not read my discourse with Alexander in Cultures on the subject?! He suggested it was because I had so many admirers circling for the honor of driving me places...but not the case, necessarily and not the reason, in this case. Dora sounds Heaven-sent. Be sure you tell her how nice she is making the place...(not too much or she'll ask for a raise, but...)

i can't imagine life without my car. why do you think i drive to all my classes? (and to think i used to be afraid to go anywhere of distance)....

You've gotta have a car in Austin, but I can see where it wouldn't be that desireable on a small island.

Guess I'd better avoid Austin...or get me a chauffeur...

Actually, there's a pretty good bus system here. It just takes longer to get places. I've enjoyed the bus rides I've taken around town, just not the waits at the bus stops. And there are some good bike trails.

...I had thought to visit, sometime. Perhaps I should bring my own driver.

Mega-Artichokes to Power Homes? LONDON (Reuters) - Spanish farmers are growing three-meter high artichokes for burning in special power stations to produce electricity, the Independent newspaper reported on Thursday. The genetically-modified monster vegetables, which boast seven meter roots, will be generating power for 60,000 people when operations in the northern towns of Villabilla de Burgos and Alcala de Gurrea begin in two years. The newspaper said twin power stations will burn 105,000 tonnes of the dried and pulped Cynara Cardunculs each year. Farmers were persuaded to sow the prickly plant by EU subsidies and price guarantees from the electricity generator. Burning plants for energy is not a new idea, but the biomass sector has seen a revival in recent years as environmental concerns rise. While there are already a number of biomass schemes in Europe they often struggle to compete commercially with other green energy schemes. An Irish scheme to burn cannabis as a fuel foundered last year because of it was considered too expensive compared with wind power projects.

Wow, pot powered cities.

Can you see the Chamber of Commerce ads now? Stressed? Come to PotTown and take a deep breath. Or something like that, anyway. I gather they are gonna burn industrial waste from the fiber hemp plant and not the mind-altering sort.

Burning cannabis for electricity. That doesn't seem to likely in the US. Can you hear the political debate on that one. What would the Religious Right make of that? I mean no offense to those posting who hold conservative views. It's just that it would fuel (pardon the pun) debate. Fun fact: both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson grew cannabis on their plantations. It was an ordinance in Virginia. So much acreage had to be planted in hemp. It was used for rope and sailcloth for the sailing ships of the era.

Like I said before somewhere (here?), the Hawaii Visitors Bureau could advertise that the air here is not only clean but is stress-relieving. Our public workers don't get much work done now...can you imagine the Polynesian Paralysis which would ensue downwind of the power plant?! Lest someone get the wrong idea about the industrial hemp grown by our founding fathers, it contains so little of the stuff which makes marijuana so popular, that it is not worth mentioning. That, however, would not keep the rabid right from attacking it just on the name Hemp alone. I agree!

Fossil gives clues into T. rex's behavior CHICAGO (AP) - In ''Jurassic Park,'' the terrified kids held perfectly still so a hungry celluloid Tyrannosaurus rex couldn't detect them. In reality, scientists say, they would've been lunch meat. CT-scanning of the desk-sized skull of Sue, the most complete T. rex fossil ever found, suggests the supreme carnivore in North America 65 million years ago had acute senses. Its forward-pointing eyes provided a wide field of view, and ear structures suggest it could hear well. But Sue's key advantage was smell. Its olfactory bulbs were grapefruit-sized. The skull opening for the bundle of olfactory nerves leading to the brain is wider than the spinal cord. ''The olfactory bulbs are larger than the cerebrum,'' said paleontologist Chris Brochu of the Field Museum of Natural History, the only scientist to have extensively examined the Sue fossil. The dinosaur ''smelled its way through life,'' he said. Sue's skeleton will be unveiled at the Field Museum on May 17 after nearly three years of cleaning and assembly. For now, it is off-limits to outsiders. Brochu has yet to reveal many details. At a recent paleontology meeting, he said it was unlikely that the bones, however complete, would settle key debates about the superstar of dinosaurs. Among them: T. rex's color and vocalizations, whether it was warm-blooded, hunter or scavenger, male or female. Others are more hopeful. Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. of the University of Maryland examined Sue briefly before it was auctioned in 1997, but key parts were still jacketed in protective plaster. ''The complete tail of a T. rex has not yet been described,'' he said. ''I would like to see if the furcula, or wishbone, is present.'' Peter Larson, president of the Black Hills Institute of Geological Research in Hill City, S.D., directed the fossil's excavation in 1990. He spent two years examining the bones until they were seized by federal agents in a legal dispute. He believes the Sue fossil is an older female. Among predatory birds, fish and insects, females are larger than males, he notes. Sue has a wider pelvis that would accommodate egg-laying. And, similar to crocodile anatomy, she lacks an extra bone that male crocs and smaller, presumably male T. rex skeletons both have. Reading behavior based on bones is trickier. Sue's teeth are foot-long cylinders with serrated edges. Her stomach contents included acid-etched bones of a duckbilled dinosaur. Other T. rex remains include bones from triceratops and other plentiful herbivores. A T. rex gulped everything and relied on a powerful digestive tract to process bone and horn. In the movies, T. rex is a solitary killer. But many scientists believe the real-life carnivores hunted in packs. Evidence? The Sue excavation also yielded juvenile and infant T. rexes in the same location. Long before dying, Sue suffered a broken left leg that was slow to heal. ''She couldn't have hunted on it,'' Larson said. ''I think her mate helped her.'' How did Sue die? T. rexes fought each other, probably over territory, food and mates. Embedded in Sue's ribcage is the tooth of another T. rex. The left side of the skull is smashed, with holes along her jaw. Brochu doubts it is evidence of a fatal encounter. The holes don't line up with the bite of a T. rex, he said. Larson disagrees. ''In her last fight she didn't do so well,'' he said. T. rex might have ruled North America in the late Cretaceous Period. But on the roster of the biggest and baddest dinosaurs, some formidable predators are emerging around the world. In March, scientists announced the discovery in Argentina of a yet-to-be-named meat eater that lived 100 million years ago. At 45 feet, it was 10% longer than T. rex. It had a long, narrow skull with scissor-like jaws, whereas the T. rex had nutcracker jaws. ''It probably attacked and dismembered its prey with a surgical precision,'' said Phil Currie of the Royal Tyrrell Museum in Alberta, Canada. ''T. rex was a creature of brute force.'' In 1998, researchers in central Africa found Suchomimus tenerensis. It was as large as a T. rex, but it prowled 30 million years earlier. Its pointy crocodile-like jaw sported 100 teeth. It also had 16-inch sickle claws. In Argentina, Gigantosaurus was discovered in 1995. It weighed 50% more than T. rex and was a contemporary of Suchomimus about when Africa and South America were connected. It had thin, flat teeth like daggers.

HERE WE GO AGAIN The price of gasoline is going up again. The latest Lundberg Survey shows that gas prices went up by five cents over the past two weeks. Nationwide, the average price for a gallon of self-serve regular last Friday was $1.58.41. Trilby Lundberg, who publishes the survey, says the two main reasons for the higher prices are higher prices for crude oil and a new federal requirement that refineries turn out more environmentally friendly gasoline. Refineries have taken steps to produce "greener" gas by reducing sulfur content and cutting down on other pollutants in the final product. Prices dropped over the past two weeks in some states, such as California, where stricter emissions standards have already forced refiners to produce "greener" gas.

saw an interesting show on discovery today: two dinosaur experts had opposite theories concerning our beloved T. Rex. was the t. rex a scavenger or a predator. both really held up their theories with what is known about scavengers and predators today. for example, t. rex has a better sense of smell than of sight. how does this influence whether they were scavengers or predators? i don't know but they thought it was significant. most predators today have excellent eyesight as well as smell. also, the teeth played a role in their theories but i only heard the predator theory of where the teeth curved inward so for a critter to attempt escape, they'd have to (ironically) go down the t. rex's throat. of course, i'm no expert. but does t. rex being a predator or a scavenger seriously affect our whole idea of dinosaurs and rearrange the "givens" significantly? (unfortunately, i didn't see the conclusion of the show).

Did not see it. However, considering the musculature in the hind legs T-rex would almost certainly have been a preditor. Who needs legs like those to run down a dead animal?

curious. i think an animal like the t. rex could have his meal anyway he'd like it-dead or alive. *grin*

I think he was probably an opportunist as well as a predator. you are right!

Even today predators will scavenge when they can. Lions are prime examples of this. They are adept hunters, but aren't beneath driving another animal off its kill. That's one of the reasons leopards carry their kills into trees; so it won't be stolen by lions. Lions are too large to climb and leopards are the most athetic of the cats.

Indeed!

Science News - Week of June 24, 2000; Vol. 157, No. 26 Overlooked fossil spread first feathers S. Milius A new look at a fossil that had been lying in a drawer in Moscow for nearly 30 years has uncovered the oldest known feathered animal, says a team of U.S. and Russian researchers. First honors go to the 10-inch-long, lizardlike Longisquama insignis, which is not a dinosaur itself but a related ancient reptile, say Terry D. Jones of Oregon State University in Corvallis and eight colleagues. It sported six to eight pairs of long, narrow feathers on its back, the researchers argue in the June 23 Science. The creature didn't fly but may have been able to glide from tree to tree, they suggest. Longisquama dates from some 220 million years ago, at least 75 million years before Archaeopteryx, the first known bird, the researchers note. They don't claim that Longisquama gave rise to birds, explains coauthor Alan Feduccia of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. However, he says, the fossil "points toward the right time to look for the ancestors of birds." More...http://www.sciencenews.org/20000624/fob2.asp

I hear there's a new Jurassic Park movie due out this summer. They crash on another island full of 'saurs. Ya' think they would have learned . . .

i heard that too!

And what do you want to bet, they will chased by dinosaurs?

Can't wait .......Grin

And, more parents will take little kids to see the cute little dinosaurs and have the living whatevers scared out of their little skulls full of mush. Sounds like a sure thing, to me!

Marcia, do I detect a hint of irritation and disapproval of those computer generated dinos and "The Jurassic Park" franchise?

Moi?! Not at all. This is America where parents give their kids money instead of raising them properly. Let um go get the Beejeepers scared out of um. Mine is all raised and can hold his own hand if he is scared in the dark! Seriously, I did hear that little kids, who were hooked on dinosaurs, got their parents to take them to Jurassic Park movie and it is not for little kids! I have seen none of the movies and probably will not see them. Rather read a good book than watch mechanical dinosaurs. Just my 'umble opinion. Has anyone seen this stuff and is it fit for kiddies?

Well, I have to admit I enjoyed the first movie ..and look forward to the second. Actually the dinosaurs were pretty good ... for mechanical items ....Enjoyed a very good expose on TV on how they made them.

the whole family enjoyed the movie. but, my kids understand the "it's all pretend" part and though we jumped at the appropriate moments, my son still wanted themed bed linen. parents just need to be involved and not let these movies and tv's become babysitters. we enjoy going to the movies together.

I did see the program about how they did the dinosaurs. perhaps it is just me with no kiddies to take along. I am relieved to know seen under the right parental accompaniment, that it is a good bit of entertainment. I guess I am still hoping to see real ones...

Did anyone know they are filming the new Jurassic Park movie here on the Big Island? Lots of locals are being used for extras, but you won't see me. /\~~~

Oh, come on, Marci, do it!

correcting spelling on the above post: Terry, they requested Wild long unkempt hair for the locals (guess they wanted us to be the savages or some other indignity) and I think they specified in some politically correct way that they also wanted Someone with much darker skin and nappier hair than I have. Alas, you may have to wait for another movie. Our car with me inside was in a Debra Winger grade zilch movie some years ago, "The Black Widow" I think it was called. They used Hilo Junior High School for the court house. It was fun to watch!

(they were filming outside the gym while I was on the bike the other day ...dunno what but I did see one character looking like a panto dame so it was probably a Christmas thingy ..oh the gym is on the Thames at Marlow ..where Steve Redgrave comes from Marcia!)

Scientist: Brazil Dinosaur Find May Be Oldest Yet By Carlos DeJuana SAO PAULO, Brazil (Reuters) - A Brazilian (news - web sites) paleontologist said on Friday he may have discovered a new ``strange'' prehistoric reptile, which, if proven to be a dinosaur, could be the oldest one ever found. The creature, which had a 12-inch-long head and was about 8 feet long, appears to be about 235 million years old -- placing it on the edge of the middle and high Triassic period, said Jorge Ferigolo of the Rio Grande do Sul Zoobotanical Foundation. Discovered in Brazil's southern Rio Grande do Sul state in February, the fossil shows signs that appear to make it either a very old dinosaur or very evolved thecodont, which were early pre-dinosaur reptiles. ``If it is a dinosaur, it's a pretty strange one,'' Ferigolo told Reuters by telephone from his office in the city of Porto Alegre. The fossils were found about 155 miles (250 km) west of the city. ``We still can't tell if it's a dinosaur or not,'' he added. ''If it was a dinosaur, it would have been the world's oldest.'' He said the carnivorous creature appears to have walked on the flat of its foot, like a thecodont, and not on its toes, like most dinosaurs. However, early examination of the fossils also showed dinosaur-like traits in its backbone and skull. The fossils, which were found alongside two other creatures of the same species, are most similar to the Coelophysis -- a type of flesh-eating North American dinosaur that weighed about 35-65 pounds (16-30 kg). But Ferigolo said it's still not clear whether the new find walked on four legs or on two, like Coelophysis. He hopes to be able to publish his first finds in at least a year. ``The south of Brazil and northern Argentina is where the dinosaurs were born, it's where you find some of the most ancient dinosaurs. So it wouldn't be so strange if it was (a dinosaur),'' said Sergio Azevedo, a paleontologist at the National Museum in Rio de Janeiro. A number of important dinosaur fossils have been found in Brazil and Argentina in recent years, including last year's discovery of the Santanaraptor, one of the oldest dinosaurs in the world and predecessor to its more famous cousin, the Tyrannosaurus Rex. Azevedo agreed the fossils needed to be further studied. ``If it's really a primitive dinosaur, it's pretty important,'' he said. ``If it's not, it's also great. If it's a thecodont, it is still a good piece of information.''

Friday May 25 1:14 PM ET U.S. Museum Unveils Computer-Enhanced Triceratops By Deborah Zabarenko WASHINGTON (Reuters) - With a bigger skull, better posture and a computer-engineered look, a 65-million-year-old Triceratops began its latest incarnation this week at the U.S. Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of Natural History. The Triceratops, an elephant-sized vegetarian dinosaur with two big horns above its eyes and a bony ruff around its neck, probably lived in what is now Wyoming when it walked the earth, said museum paleontologist Ralph Chapman. Its skeleton had been on display at the Smithsonian since 1905, and conservators noticed about two years ago that the bones were literally decaying from the inside out. They decided to take the bones down from their metal supports and to use new technology to capture each bone on a computer. Chapman was in charge of what came to be known as the virtual Triceratops. Using a laser scanner and other devices, Chapman said he and others got detailed images of every available bone in the skeleton. They found that at least a dozen different Triceratops were used to make the original exhibit. From these images, they built miniature copies of the Triceratops, about one-sixth actual size. These were used to help paleontologists and other researchers figure out how the bones went together, which would have been impossible with the decaying but still unwieldy full-sized bones. What they found made big changes in how the Triceratops would be exhibited, Chapman said in a telephone interview. The Triceratops skull the exhibit used to have was too small to belong with the body; Chapman said it was the head of a younger, smaller dinosaur. The museum's researchers believed that the younger animal was probably at a stage where the proportions would have been the same as it matured and grew, so they made a new head to fit with the body based on the old head's measurements. The old head was about 6 feet long, while the new one measures about 7 feet. From nose to tail, the skeleton measures about 21 feet, Chapman said. ``It's an impressive animal with this big head,'' Chapman said. Exhibited right across from a skeleton of the carnivorous Tyrannosaurus rex, the Triceratops looks as if it might hold its own, he said: ``The Tyrannosaurus would probably have avoided it.'' Researchers also realized that the back feet were all wrong; in fact, they belonged to a duck-footed dinosaur, according to Chapman. These were changed to more accurately reflect the Triceratops. The dinosaur's posture was also changed from its earlier state, which had the front end ``more sprawled'' than it is now, Chapman said. ``The animal looks like a real animal,'' he said. ``It looks like if you were to look at the skeleton of a rhino or a horse or a cow ... It's lovely.''

Oooh have you seen him? Thanks for posting. Your little town is so pretty it should be in all the archetypal English movies... *Looking for Maggie in the extras*

Early Preview of JPI: Dinosaur Field Guide A few lucky site readers got a chance to review a copy of the upcoming "Jurassic Park Institute: Dinosaur Field Guide, the first in a new series of JP3 tie-ins about the science of dinosaurs. The book, written by several dino experts, will be released June 12. Here's Jordan Mallon's review: At first glance, the book seems rather smallish, although it does contain a good 160 pages of text. It starts off with an essay written by the authors (Dr. Thomas Holtz Jr. and Dr. Michael Brett-Surman) called "Why Are Dinosaurs So Popular?" This commentary is followed up by an article on the dinosaurian timeline and other typically paleontology-related topics (including "Finding Fossils", "How to Draw Dinosaurs", "How Dinosaurs Are Classified", etc.) The bulk of the book, however, consists of what is basically a large dinosaur dictionary, featuring some 100 genera. Each dinosaur has at least one page dedicated to its history, trivia, friends/enemies, and even �fun facts�. (Did you know that _Psittacosaurus_ has horns on its cheeks called �jugal horns�?) Interestingly, some of the old dinosaur inaccuracies made in the JP series are also clarified, which is something any paleo-buff can appreciate. (_Velociraptor_ was only 1.5 feet tall at the hips! Ahem! Excuse me.) Some non-dinosaurian animals are also listed in the back, such as the pterosaurs, mosasaurs, and other archosaurian relatives. The dinosaur paintings are beautifully executed by professional paleolife artist Robert Walters, and I think the book is worth buying for his illustrations alone. If not that, then perhaps some of the readers might enjoy looking at some of the screen shots taken from the JP movies, including the upcoming Jurassic Park 3 film. Most interestingly, the Field Guide also contains a �free dinosaur poster� inside! It�s basically an illustrated list of all the dinosaurs in the book and features the Jurassic Park Institute logo at the top. At any rate, that�s about it review-wise. The back of the book lists a website to go to if you�re looking to �begin an adventure of a lifetime.� It can be found at www.jpinstitute.com, although it is not yet open to the public (I tried!). Overall, I�d say this book is easily one of the most accurate and up-to-date works for children, although I would think that even most adults would enjoy this one too. It�s not clich�d like some of the older dinosaur books, and I feel it�s well worth the $10.99 pricetag. http://www.dansjp3page.com/index2.asp

And from the same site: New JP3 Theater Display Spotted Nate wrote in to say that he spotted a JP3 standee last night at his local theater, which he describes as "HUGE -- at least 8 or 10 feet tall, and 16 to 18 feet long. It was made of a thick cardboard and it was just a huge image like the new posters that are out, with the JP3 logo and then the wing span of the [pteranodon] across it. It was awesome, that was all there was too it, but it looked like from a distance that there actually could be a dino flying over head and that was the actual shadow it was casting, that is how big this thing is. The display was in 4 panels, and it had the sturdy supports in the back of it to hold the beast up. All I can say is I will be waiting in line to take this home the moment they want to throw it away, the only problem is, I dont think I have any where to put it, more over a car or van large enough to bring it home! " Hey, I want one!

i saw previews when i went to the theatre on friday....it looks good.

Wow, the previews are out already.

I want one too. Would be great with the Volcano erupting for a backdrop. Sounds amazing. I think this one I will do to see!

Thursday May 31 2:05 PM ET http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20010531/sc/science_dinosaur_dc_1.html Fossil of Gargantuan Dinosaur Unearthed in Egypt By Will Dunham WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Fossilized remains of a gargantuan plant-eating dinosaur, the second most massive animal ever to walk the Earth, have been unearthed in a desert oasis in Egypt at a site that eons ago was a lush coastal paradise, researchers said on Thursday. The discovery of a partial skeleton of Paralititan stromeri was made by 31-year-old University of Pennsylvania doctoral student Joshua Smith, who went on a dinosaur hunt at a remote site that had yielded spectacular finds in the first half of the 20th century in expeditions led by German paleontologist Ernest Stromer von Reichenbach. But the fossils of the four new dinosaurs Stromer uncovered were lost to the world during World War Two when British warplanes bombed the Bayerische Staatssammlung museum during a raid over Munich on April 24, 1944. Stromer's excavation site remained largely ignored in the decades since then. Paralititan (pronounced pah-ral-ih-TY-tan and meaning ''tidal giant'') lived 94 million years ago during the middle of the Cretaceous period of the Mesozoic Era. The long-necked, long-tailed quadruped looked much like the familiar Brontosaurus (formal name Apatosaurus) that lived tens of millions of years earlier, except that its back may have been studded with bony body armor as protection from predators. The finding was published in the journal Science. ``It was an enormous dinosaur by anybody's reckoning,'' Smith, who was 29 when he found it, said in an interview. ``We think that a large individual might have massed about 70 tons, 75 tons maybe and it might have approached 100 feet in length. As far as tall, stack four African elephants on top of each other. That's about the height. It would look through a third-story window without much problem.'' FIRST RUNNER-UP IN THE WEIGHT CATEGORY The only dinosaur known to be heavier than Paralititan is Argentinosaurus, which looked much like the new dinosaur (both are classified as titanosaurid sauropods) but is estimated to have been about 7 percent more massive. The remains of only one example of these two colossal dinosaurs exist. Smith found the partial skeleton preserved in fine-grained sediments full of plant remains and root casts in the Bahariya Oasis in the Sahara desert some 180 miles southwest of Cairo. He said the evidence suggests that the arid Bahariya site once resembled the tropical mangrove coasts of Florida, a low-energy, shallow water area of tidal flats and tidal channels. He compares it to the Everglades. And based in part on Stromer's earlier finding of three massive carnivorous dinosaurs at the site, Smith said the area must have been teeming with life. Smith believes the massive herbivore was standing on the edge of a tidal channel in very shallow water when it died. His team also found evidence that the carcass had been scavenged by a flesh-eating dinosaur, including a tooth that may come from Carcharodontosaurus, whose name means ''shark-tooth lizard'' and whose size, 45 feet (13.5 meters) long, was comparable to Tyrannosaurus rex. In addition, the pelvis was ripped apart as if it had been eaten. It's unclear whether Paralititan lost a life-or-death struggle with the predator or became a meal after dying for other reasons, Smith said. ``All we know is that the animal died and somebody came along and munched on it.'' PARTIAL REMAINS FOUND Smith said the skeleton of Paralititan is only 20 to 25 percent complete. Most impressive is a humerus (upper forelimb bone) that measures 6 foot, 7 inches long. The remains also include several vertebrae, ribs and both shoulder blades. The Penn team also found fossils of fish, sharks, turtles, marine reptiles and other dinosaurs. Dumb luck played a role in the discovery, Smith admits. He and University of Pennsylvania graduate student Matthew Lamanna, who at age 25 is a co-author of the study, dreamed up the idea of finding the sites that had been so productive for Stromer, who worked there extensively starting in 1911. Smith said in 1999 he tagged along on another Penn expedition to Egypt and was given all of two days to search for dinosaurs. Another problem was finding the Stromer's exact site because he did not leave behind any maps or directions. Scientific literature found in Cairo pointed the way, but Smith ended up in the wrong place anyway. But as luck would have it, on Feb. 23, 1999, Smith spotted from the window of his Toyota Land Cruiser three pieces of Paralititan's forelimb. He said he may have stumbled on ``dinosaur heaven,'' adding: ''Nobody thought for a second that we'd find anything, including me. Paralititan was the first thing we found the first morning we looked. It's just ridiculou .''

Just when we thought it could not get any bigger...! Thanks Maggie! That is amazing!

From Maggie, who is really allowed to post her own stuff... *sigh* Just finished watching today's report of the five-day dinosaur dig at the isle of Wight. here's the web site for you ......do look ..it's fascinating. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dinosaurs/dinosaur_island/index.shtml

There's a story in the news conference today about a Kimono lizard, perhaps it should have been in this topic. You'll gasp when you read it.

Here's Terry's story about the Komodo Dragon. They eat people!!! Yeah, it's really weird and more than a little ghastly! Thanks, I think! Phil Bronstein, of SF Chronicle, is in the hospital after having been bitten (mauled sounds more like it) on the foot by a Kimodo Dragon at I forget which Zoo (LA I think). He was on a special just for him for father's day back stage tour of the zoo, esp. to see the Kimodo Dragon. Apparently he was wearing white sneakers and was told that they might appear to resemble the white mice fed to the Kimodo Dragon. So instead he was barefoot when he was attacked by said KD. Sounds like he's lost much of a big toe and is danger of umpteen different kinds of extemely nasty bacteria which can cause sepsis. Apparently there are left over particles of food in the KD's mouth which fester in nasty ways. This happened about a week ago. Here's the story: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/06/10/MN156967.DTL Should I have put this in the Jurassic Park topic? Isn't this the weirdest story?

I think that is why they put "Don't Feed The Animals" Signs on the cages!

Not mentioned. The guy's married to Sharon Stone and the visit was a gift from her.

That helps!!!

*laugh* i imagine that man's getting his share of vaccinations now.

What was the movie Sharon Stone was in with Michael Douglas called, does sending her hubby in with an attack lizard remind you of this? Or maybe I'm thinking of Glenn Close? This white guy with white shoes and white socks takes them off so he'll be in his white as can be feet.

oh, terry, i know what movie you're talking about...it was along the genre of romancing the stone (which had michael douglas and that other blonde lady--oh, i can't think of her name!)

Kathleen Turner, Wolfie. Yup I remember that movie to whihc Terry refers and I cannot think which it is.

the one with glenn close and michael douglas was...hmmmm....now i can't remember that one either (have a whiny daughter in the background which may have messed up my brain files for the moment)....

errr.....Fatal Attraction???

Uh Huh!!! Our resident Babe expert comes to the rescue!

That's it.

Go to http://www.discovery.com and punch in your zip code- they will give you a list of what dinosaurs used to live in your area.

cool!

mine came up with sauropods...

Allosaurus and Tenontosaurus here.

I want to know where my ichytheosaurs are!!! We are not nearly old enough. I think the machine looked at my zip in the middle of the ocean and BINGO. Had to be some sea-dweller.

WOW, Autumn, you got BIG stuff in your area. Great going!

Yeah, well, you know what they say about big prehistoric dinosaurs in your area--we're overcompensating!!

My neighborhood was once the home to Theropods and Ornithischians. They allegedly left footprints.

Wow! I have trod your sacred land and did not realize upon which I stepped. I think I dated one of those Ornithiscians, but how was I to know he was in a very old religious sect?! (They sound birdlike so I will be off to www.google.com to find them)

Please tell us more about the Ornithiscian you'd once dated and the arcane religious practices of their sect. That is if you don't have to kill the person(s) to whom divulge such information.

*GRIN* I was sworn to secrecy, but it did involve a great deal of unbuttoning and attempts to rebutton faster than it was undone. As for the feathers... Perhaps that is best left to the imagnation.

Marcia, it seems it might have been a bit of a ticklish situation. *Grin* Say no more.

*Laugh* Cheryl, I can tell you have been to college, too!

Welcome to this week's edition of DINOSAURNEWS. For the full story visit the FREE webzine at this address: http://www.dinosaurnews.org. The headlines: ** War victims include rare fossils Allied bombing in September 1943 damaged the Natural History Museum at Humbolt University in Berlin, home of the largest mounted dinosaur skeleton in the world, the mighty Brachiosaurus ** County chipping in for Sue skeleton A signed contract will end a month of nail biting by museum officials, who have been worried the deal would fall through ** Dino tracks par for course The West's past and its future came down to a gritty conversation Monday in an old clay mine here, where a golf course is pitted against dinosaur tracks. ** Eggs of dinosaur found Scientists from the Florentino Ameghino museum will continue to excavate the site in August in the hope of finding more nests as well as the skeletal remains of adult dinosaurs ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Advertisement: SURVIVAL OR EXTINCTION The Dinosaur game NEW Package! Winner of 10 industry awards for quality and value! Ideal for ages 5 & up Become a dinosaur!! Learn to Survive! Fun for the whole family! In the DINOGAMES section http://www.dinosaurnews.org ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ** Dinosaur special includes newly discovered species Among the new dinos featured are a two-legged, meat-eating member of the Coelurosaur species, yet unnamed, and Nothronychus, a bizarre, long-necked plant-eater ** Fossil being freed from ancient rock Project Prosauropod is enabling fossil fanciers with Internet access to watch the unearthing of a 200 million-year-old dinosaur's fossilized bones from the comfort of their own home. ** T-REX may throw paleontologists a bone Bone-hunting paleontologists will walk behind earthmoving equipment during the T-REX highway project, searching for fossilized plants and the remains of dinosaurs ** Dino Went Down to Georgia Recently, two of the world's most unusual dinosaur fossils went on display at that city's Fernbank Museum ** Dinosaur State Park plans eventful summer Dinosaurs will not be the only creatures making tracks at Dinosaur State Park this summer, according to a park spokesperson. ____________________________________________________________________________ ____ FREE SUBSCRIPTION TO DINOSAURNEWS - Send an email to subscribe@dinosaurnews.org ____________________________________________________________________________ ____ ** Day of the 'Dinosaur' Several leading paleontologists are gathering Sunday at the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County for "Dinosaur Discoverers," a five-hour-plus symposium ** Prints reveal dinosaurs may have hunted in packs It's the first evidence found in Africa to contradict the belief dinosaurs were solitary beasts ** This Month's Feature Website A Dinosaur's Neighborhood - What if a dinosaur, like this one, lived in your neighborhood?. Activity sheet from National Geographic ** Dinosaur Tracks - New Mexico QTVR Panoramas from New Mexico In conjunction with New Mexico State University. ____________________________________________________________________________ __ DINOSAURNEWS webzine with the latest Dinosaur Books, Dinosaur Games, Dinolinks and a Dinomall. Read something ferocious this week: http://www.dinosaurnews.org

Wow!!! Dinosaur news! Thank you Maggie *HUGS* for posting this!

watched the movie this weekend and i really liked it. i think the dinosaurs are cool and no nightmares for the kids!

I guess I got spoiled by seeing real ones all those years in the American Museum of Natural History. The archaeologist and paleontologist in me also rebels at putting feelings into these creatures. We have found so few of somes of them we have no idea how they lived. Yeah, I know. I just take the kids and be quiet. Only I don't have any kids to take. Too dark in there to read a good book...*sigh* I'm delighted you enjoyed it, Wolfie!

i don't know if anyone can say exactly what these creatures did but i could hardly contain myself thinking about all the work that went into these creatures whose roars sounded like they came out of their mouths and the dilating pupils, and to think that T Rex was my fave out of all their critters. that's what amazed me the most!

I was watching a special on the movie on Discovery Channel and there is a 1000 hp (one thousand horse power) motor running that T Rex. Check out that chariot that gets you to the grocery store. That whole movie represents Huge amounts of money. Whether it might have been better used is a question I will not even think of answering. I am delighted both you and the kids (or is it all of you kids?!) enjoyed it.

the kids and i enjoyed it while the big kid did not.

Big Kids are always the most difficult. I have one of my own, so I know... *HUGS*

Marcia, could you imagine getting to the grocery store in a 1,000 hp motorized T.Rex. That could make the neighbors sit up and take notice. Wolfie, glad that you and the kids enjoyed the movie. I haven't seen it yet.

In California, a 1000 hp T Rex is the ONLY way to get from point A to point B on the freeways. At least we would be intact. No guarantees on scratches or dents, though. Don't you wonder what something like that eats? Anything it wants!

Whenever it wants!