Geomagnetism

LeyLines, Feng Shui, polarization. Copper bracelets with magnets in them. Please let us discuss the topic from the lunctic fringe to the deadly seiously scademic.

OK, Marcia. I'm here... and i still have no idea what leylines are. educate me please. :)

Welcome, EsBee. Happy to oblige even though Maggie is the one with them running near her house. Mind you, I deal with scientific and proven stuff usually, but this fascinates me. So, here goes: In the early 1920's Alfred Watkins wrote a book called The Old Straight Track. One day, when he was out riding his horse across the countryside, he paused on a hill. He noticed that the entire landscape was crossed by glowing network of lines standing out like golden wires, intersecting at the sites of churches, old stones and other places of traditional sanctity. History of Ley Hunting The story of how, in the early 20th century, a Hereford miller suddenly realised that all around the countryside ancient sites, monuments, earthworks and other features could be shown to be arranged or placed in alignments, is a fascinating one. It resulted in the development of a view of prehistoric society markedly different to that held previously. The man was a native of Hereford, one Alfred Watkins. Having lived his whole life in the Herefordshire countryside, he knew it and its people intimately, and was interested in the history and folklore of the county, much of it being learnt from the village folk and farmers that he met. He was a leading figure in the local natural history society, the Woolhope Club, and a well-known County Councillor and magistrate. One interest that was put to good use when he came to write up his discovery was photography; Watkins was a pioneer in this field, inventing an exposure meter that was for forty-five years or more universally recognised as the beginner's sure guide to correct exposure. On 30th June 1921, Alfred Watkins was at Blackwardine, and was looking at a map with no particular object in mind when he noticed an alignment that passed over some hilltops and various ancient sites. All of a sudden, there occurred what can only be called a flash of insight or a revelation, and the features that he was so familiar with in the landscape became linked in a whole system. Alien Watkins in a biography of his father describes how his father's mind was "...flooded with a rush of images forming one coherent plan. The scales fell from his eyes and he saw that over many long years of prehistory, all trackways were in straight lines marked out by experts on a sighting system. The whole plan of the Old Straight Track stood suddenly revealed". Alfred Watkins later described this plan: Imagine a fairy chain stretched from mountain peak to mountain peak, as far as the eye could reach, and paid out till it touched the high places of the earth at a number of ridges, banks and knowls. Then visualise a mound, circular earthwork, or clump of trees, planted on these high points, and in low points in the valley, other mounds ringed with water to be seen from a distance. Then great standing stones brought to mark the way at intervals, and on a bank leading up to a mountain ridge or down to a ford the track cuts so deep so as to form a guiding notch in the skyline as you come up. In a bwlch or mountain pass the road cut deeply to show as a notch afar off. Here and there, and at two ends of the way, a beaconfire used to lay out the track. With ponds dug on the line, or streams banked up into "flashes" to form reflecting points on the beacon track so it might be checked when at least once a year a beacon was fired on the traditional day. All these works exactly on the sighting line...

They were called "ley" (pronounced lee) lines because they passed through so many villages with names ending in "ley" indicative only that the Danes had names the place long before. There are also E line around the entire earth: http://www.surreycmc.gov.uk/outreach/roundwld.htm E-line round the world! When plotted on a globe, the E-line goes through the immediate areas of some very significant places. One is Mount Everest, the highest mountain in the world. Its Tibetan name "Chomolungma" means "Goddess mother of the world". Crossing the equator, the line goes right through the middle of Australia, and seems to go through the location of Ayers Rock. To the local tribes of Australian aborigines, Ayers Rock is a mount of the gods, totally enveloped in legends and myths. Caves, shelters and other minor features of the Rock are associated with memories of cultural heroes of the Dream Time, and sacred rites continually make this time operative in the present. The first and last rays of the sun seem to set the rock on fire with spectacular colour changes, and even for white Australians a trip there takes on the dimension of a pilgrimage. The line continues through the southern tip of South Island, New Zealand, then swings north again to go through the area of the famous Lines of Nazca in Peru. Lines run with bullet-like straightness across the pampa for mile after mile, and can only be appreciated properly from the air. A number of patterns and shapes are among the lines, including birds and spiders.

Ok all you leyline followers. I'm gonna go hunt you a map so we can all follow them.

The E-line, which we had been following across Surrey and Kent, goes through the chalk figure of the Giant, near Cerne Abbas when extended westwards. We found the line as wide and powerful as usual, much wider than this line plotted by Eileen on the aerial photograph which appeared in "The Ley Hunter's Companion" and "The Ley Guide", by Paul Devereux, which represents its centre. Note however that it skirts the Trendle (or Frying Pan) earthwork near the Giant. The real line would take in the whole of the Trendle. The other line is the one found by Paul Devereux.

This map shows the Eline and the euy ines they were following in the comments above:

Fascinating Marcia, thanks! I have just returned from Santiago de Compostela, Spain (where the Apostle St. James is buried). As you know there is the famous pilgrimage from Lourdes to Santiago which pilgrims have been doing since the Crusades. These pilgrims all travel with a scallop shell which they hold towards the Sun when the Sun is at a certain angle and a line appears from the light. It deliniates the Western line that takes them to Santiago. Botticelli knew of this when he painted Venus on the scallop shell. These lines are also the ones that birds follow during their migrations. Homing pigeons have been very useful in times of war because of it as well.

Here is a link with the info.: http://www.iranon.org/jacobeo/en/index.htm

Moon, thanks! Indeed, these lines of magnetism do exist. Thanks for pointing out a very old and very verifiable one.

Mmm thanks for creating this Marcia. The info is fascinating. Apparently most of our (English) really old churches are built on ley lines. There is certainly something going on and I suspect that there is a rational explanation if we but knew.

Mayhap we need to learn the knowledge we have forgotten...It is fascinating!

I know zip about this topic, but here goes: It concerns the magnetic lines and water, lots of water, i.e., the Pacific Ocean, how did the Polynesians and Melanesians ever find those islands in all that watery expanse? Granted New Zealand is pretty big, but some of the islands the settled are literally tiny specks of land. Did they just set out and hoped they hit land before their supplies ran out? Did they follow birds? Or did they somehow discern oceanic ley lines?

The Vikings used polarizing sunstones to keep them on course. The Polynesians used the Sun in the day and stars by night and during storms tried to keep on course by lashing the rudder in place. They reinact this epic expansion almost yearly. Please check this url http://www.kitv.com/Voyage.html It is graphics intensive and takes a while to download but it tells the story better than I could. Will hunt for more things from the Polynesian Voyaging Society, the parent group of these voyages. Thanks for bringing it up.

This link is even better: The Polynesian Voyaging Society has maps and all sorts of good information on the voyage underway even as wel write: http://leahi.kcc.hawaii.edu/org/pvs/

this is way cool. do the ley lines cross through easter island as well? oh, and the giant is fascinating. i watched a show about that on discovery. it's amazing how big he really is! and the spiders and such are equally as fascinating. suppose we link this topic with physical phenomenon in paraspring? (and how did you get your globe to show up?)

The E line does. Gotta post a E line map when I find one. I think we need tolink it but since this is already established, it will create a new one on your conference just as collecting rocks and Jurassic Park did here. My globe on the cover page? I discovered it was in the cfconfig (hit the you are host in this conf to get there). Scroll down till you hit the big empty boxes in which we write commands. I found the /~cfadm file which had the globe in it and since I had downloaded it my own files, I ftp'd it to my /marcia files then went to the web got the location of the globe went back to that box and pasted the new address and deleted the old one. Hit the "save this file" or whatever it says..and voila! Need help? I can get into your cfconfig too and help you!

Now you have me wondering about the Bermuda Triangle and the magnetic force found there. Is it also on one of these lines?

There are several of these "triangles" around the world, and they are, as I recall, considered "magnetic anomolies." Let me to some research and get back to you. Thanks for bringing it up.

Two of the several theories of the Bermuda Triangle from:http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/warminster/167/theori.html Theory #5 - Boom! This is a theory by the US Navy. The investigation centers on the possibility of electro-magnetic gravitational and atmospheric disturbances that might be possible for disintegrating craft. The Lost Patrol reported seeing a large ball of fire in the skies. Could 5 planes collide and then joined by a sixth? The investigation believes that the fireball was could have been created by the impact of the patrol and it's rescue ship with a disintegrating electro-magnetic force. Theory #6 - Magnetic North This is one of the most famous Bermuda Triangle theories. It has basis on the following (high school student)physics: A compass DOES NOT always point to the true north but rather to the magnetic north. This phenomenon is referred to as compass variation. As a sailor or pilots circumnavigates the earth this variation changes, at times as much as 20 degrees. The navigator must always compensate for this error he may find himself far from where he thinks he is. One interesting note (that forms the basis for this theory) is that there are two places that point to the magnetic north: the Bermuda Triangle and the Devil's Sea area. There have been reports of pilots saying that they were confused as to direction. A typical example is the reply from Lt. Charles Taylor on Flight 19 when he was asked by the radio tower as to his position. His reply was "We are not sure... We seem to be lost..", then a few minutes later "We cannot be sure which way is west... everything is wrong... strange... we cannot be sure of any direction." Or could this simply be a disorientation in a man's own mind? Hard to say.

hmmmm..... (about linking it with physical phenom)

Yup, and I cannot do it until I can get in there via telnet (of which they supposedly have allowed Terry one account - but I see 4 logins via telnet) I tried to telnet in from Hawaii on Line and did. But, when I try to login, I get the usual "login invalid." Either we will have to wait for one of them to do it or wait till Terry finds a way to grant me telnet access to do it myself. *sigh*

I believe certain points on the Earth have been discovered where in a range of about 200 yards, a compass needle will point south, for reasons that are not clear to the scientists who have tested this. From memory (I read this article years ago) one spot is in the Arizona desert, and five such spots have been claimed in mainland USA. The Bermuda Triangle could have been providing (maybe only temporarily?) a larger form of such a phenomenon, I suppose.

(Wolf), (about linking it with physical phenom) This topic gets better and better. That is a great idea. I hope you are able to crack that tel net access, Marcia.

Mark, you are correct...those magnetic anomolies do it every time. Whenever I flew to Britain over the pole I hung a floating compass from the tray in front of me and watched it wander out of control for 5 hours as we were near the north pole. It must have been very difficult to navigate in the early days. Little wonder the early Norsemen used polarizing stones to set their course. I'll put the anomolies on my "look up" list. Moon, it will happen...just have to wait till Terry gets the Telnet accounts figured out or someone has the time to do it.

Woo Hoo, Wolfie, we are linked by the magic of our personal magician *grin* *Hugs*

this is great!!! thanks magic man!! *hugs*

Anne Hale promised to post in here but until she gets around to doing so I shall post some things she sent me about ley lines in UK were she grew up: I shall if you give me the name of the topic post some more stuff on Ley lines - I visited once during my studies of the subject an Iron Age Fort on top of the North Downs near Leith Hill - the highest point in the South of England all of 965feet!! The interest is that 9 parishes met at that point - all finishing in a narrow point and radiating out into the flat lands below. The whole area around my home town is so ancient. Ashtead was a small Roman village with a tile factory, my home town Leatherhead was called Leddrede at one point in time and the historical society there has much to offer - maybe I will check to see if it is on the net. Boxhill of Emma fame too has some very interesting history - a man was buried upside down at the top many, many years ago. The walkway along the White Downs just a mile or two away from Boxhill is certain to contain Ley Lines - or at least that is what we believed when we travelled along it. my stamping ground is Surrey, Hampshire and Sussex and sometimes Kent. Denis' home town Ammanford in Dyfed has some rather scary standing stones - you get the strangest feeling there. I will try to get him to talk on the Ammanford Standing stones - they are in a circle and of course his part of Wales is full of druidical places. They are still Welsh speaking there and sometimes quite fey

Marcia, thanks for the Polynesian Voyaging Society links. Navigation by using astronomical bodies, shows a rather high degree of cultural sophistocation. I took an anthropology class which compared and contrasted 3 highly developed pre-literate societies: the Buganda of East Africa, the Tahitians, and the Hawaiians. The class did not touch on navigation though. I'm still curious if magnetism had some play in Polynesian navigation. The Giant must have been a bit of a shock to Victorian tourists. Is there another Giant (Rude Man) in Wiltshire, near the Uffingtion Horse and Stonehenge? Also what is the relationship of ley lines to prehistoric stone constructions,i.e., Stonehenge, Avebury, Carnac (Kerrec) in Brittany, and the strange stone constructs on Malta.

Ah, now you are getting to my most favorite subject - Things Megalithic. They Are stone, after all! More on this in a moment... If you scroll down on the Poly Voyaging Soc site you will see the link to the Hawaiian Star chart by which they navigated. It is difficult to use magnetism over that much water. I will check it out, but I think they did not use it. They had NO iron whatever!

Oh, yes! The Victorians "modified" the giant and it was only through modern techniques that the original specifics were re-discovered. However, his 12' (3.65 M) long "member" is longer than originally. It now extends to his navel which it did not originally. There are several fake giants (and white horses, as well), but there is a red giant (have to look this one up for you and get back to you - I have dozens of books on these subjects!)now densely overgrown in the woods in mid-England.

Lest you think all Ley Lines are in every place but USA, check this Seattle, Washington map. A larger map is available http://www.geo.org/qa.htm#tof Has anyone here read about Rennes-le-Chateau? Want to discuss that, as well?

From http://www.geo.org/dowse1.htm#4 Primary water is a totally below-ground hydrological cycle and therefore is not affected by drought. Primary water is found at most ancient monuments and temples. Usually, there is a water dome or even a well or a spring at the center of the monument. A water spring, the place where water is available for use from the surface, is a natural spot for building a sacred place. By marking the site, or distinguishing it from other places, the monument becomes "holy ground." The close relationship of water lines and springs with ancient monuments was established by M. Louis Merle and Reginald Allender Smith in the 1930s. Both these men were dowsers, or diviners of water; they could locate underground streams and springs without using scientific instruments. Merle established that ancient monuments were situated over the crossing of underground streams. Smith went further to say that springs are constantly present at the centers of stone circles and earthworks. This discovery indicated that the selection of sites for ancient monuments was not arbitrary, but a conscious decision based upon the presence of underground water.

How about sacred geometry...?

Lest you think all Ley Lines are in every place but USA, check this Seattle, Now, that might explain the the phenomena known as Bill Gates. ;-) This discovery indicated that the selection of sites for ancient monuments was not arbitrary, but a conscious decision based upon the presence of underground water. That is exactly what happened in Bath, when the Romans settled there, they chose it because of the hot springs. The Giant is on the smaller road on the way back to London from Bath which we did and I can tell you it is an amazing site to behold. Has anyone here read about Rennes-le-Chateau? It rings a bell, Marcia, please tell us more. :-D

Aloha Moon...thanks for your comments. I knew there was a good explanation of the phenomenon of Bill Gates. *lol* You are right about Bath (the origin of that "Saturday night ritual" in so many cowboy movies). In the Spring, there are still well-dressing festivities all over Britain, all of which have some ritual significance. Some really popular ones have been Christianized (as has everything else at Glastronbury.) Rennes-le-Chateau starred prominently in the book Holy Blood Holy Grail and deals with the Merovingian dynasty in France, the Knights Templar and ultimately with one-world government. The best part of it deals with sacred geometry and ancient things in the landscape along with the best history of early France I have ever read. The book's conclusions are odd at best, but it was intriguing enough that I bought its successor and a third by one of the same authors!

Congratulations, my dear! This is a great topic, and you are a vast source of knowledge, as usual.

Thank you, and *hugs* for saying so. I always welcome a fellow adventurer into the ancient and esoteric. Please stick around and post.

I come here to be informed. As I said I know zip about this subject. Okay, I do know a little, thanks to those posting here. Please let me clarify on the subjects of the Polynesians and magnetism, I thought it might have something to do with birds. Since birds go on massive migrations using magnetic fields, among other things to guide them. That's the theory anyway. But you're right Marcia, it's pretty tough to use magnetism if you have no iron and there's that much water. Wasn't Bath a holy place to the Celtic inhabitants of Britain before the Romans arrived? They are the hottest springs in Europe. Was Aquae Sulis the Roman name for Bath? Please let us know what you uncover on the Red Giant.

Polynesian Navigation is ongoing as we speak as the Hokule'a sails for Hilo on the return voyage. Check it out at the Polynesian Vpoyaging Society website. Nearing Islands the Hawaiians used birds for homing in on the terra firma. That and clouds forming over mountain peaks and glows from eruptions. Any water source in Europe has been revered from time immemorial. In fact, the source of the Seine was a much visited shrine of pilgrimage. Thermal springs were more revered - especially if they were the healing sort. Bath under various names was revered way back into pre-history. Chartre Cathedral was built on a "pagan" shrine so popular to the mother goddess that the only way to stop them coming to visit it was to put the cathedral to a new god over it. Of course, during a later synod, they incorporated the mother goddess concept into Christianity as the Virgin Mary. (Don't flame my posts - look it up. It was NOT my doing!) Have discovered the red giant. Everyone knows of the Uffington White Horse...the oldest extant hill figure in Britain. There was supposed to be a lost red horse near Tysoe near Banbury, Warwickshire. Whilst hunting for the horse, S. G. Wildman discovered not a horse, but a whole collection of other figures - what appeared to be a human figure 160'(47 M) in height wielding a whip or rope; a bird with its head pointing upward; behind them was an unidentifiable animal. Below them all was the figure of another animal perhaps 300' (51.44 M) long. They were never excavated, but on contemporary pictures, others were able to discern them from oblique angles. (from "Mysterious Britain" by J&C Bord)

Oh, and you are correct about Aquae Sulis being the Roman name for Bath. Translated, it is water of the Silures, a powerful Keltic tribe in the area.

Chartres was very much an important site to the goddess. Interestingly, until well into the 19th century the moon was referred to as "Notre Dame" in very rural parts of France.

Very interesting! (...and how did that 's' get left off of my Chartres?!) Underneath this civilized and regimented modern facade we wear are the real roots of our knowledge of the earth and what made it special and how to be in tune with it. I hope we can tune in again before all signs and lore are gone and forgotten. However, I hasten to add that the book I cited is of what the Archaeology establishment considers "Lunatic Fringe" and a lot of things they espouse is a bit "out there."

I posted this in my Mali topic and Marcia has asked for it to be posted here as well. Comments? Dogon Theory of Creation The Dogon people are an indigeous tribe who occupy a region in Mali, south of the Sahara Desert in Africa. They live in the Homburi Mountains near Timbuktu. They are believed to be of Egyptian descent. After living in Libya for a time, they settled in Mali, West Africa, bringing with them astronomy legends dating from before 3200 BCE. In the late 1940s, four of their priests told two French anthropologists of a secret Dogon myths about the star Sirius (8.6 light years from the earth). The priests said that Sirius had a companion star that was invisible to the human eye. They also stated that the star moved in a 50-year elliptical orbit around Sirius, that it was small and incredibly heavy, and that it rotated on its axis. Sirius - which we now call Sirius A - was not seen through a telescope until 1862 and was not photographed until 1970. The Dogon name for Sirius B (Po Tolo) consists of the word for star (tolo) and "po," the name of the smallest seed known to them. By this name they describe the star's smallness -- it is, they say, "the smallest thing there is." They also claim that it is "the heaviest star," and white. The Dogon thus attribute to Sirius B its three principle properties as a white dwarf: small, heavy, white. They go on to say that it has an is elliptical orbit, with Sirius A at one foci of the ellipse (as it is), that the orbital period is 50 years (the actual figure is 50.04 +/- 0.09 years), and that the star rotates on its own axis (it does). The Dogon also describe a third star in the Sirius system, called "Emme Ya" ("Sorghum Female"). In orbit around this star, they say, is a single satellite. To date, Emme Ya has not been identified by astronomers. In addition to their knowledge of Sirius B, the Dogon mythology includes Saturn's rings, and Jupiter's four major moons. They have four calendars, for the Sun, Moon, Sirius, and Venus, and have long known that planets orbit the sun. The Dogon say their astronomical knowledge was given to them by the Nommos, amphibious beings sent to Earth from Sirius for the benefit of mankind. The name comes from a Dogon word meaning "to make one drink," and the Nommos are also called Masters of the Water, the Monitors, and the Teachers. Nommos The Dogon tells the legend of the Nommos, awful-looking beings who arrived in a vessel along with fire and thunder. After they arrived here - they put out a reservoir of water onto the Earth then dove into the water. There are references in the oral traditions, drawings and cuneiform tablets of the Dogons, to human looking beings who have feet but who are portrayed as having a large fish skin running down their bodies. The Nommos were more fishlike than human, and had to live in water. They were saviors and spiritual guardians: "The Nommo divided his body among men to feed them; that is why it is also said that as the universe "had drunk of his body," the Nommo also made men drink. He gave all his life principles to human beings." The Nommo was crucified and resurrected and in the future will again visit the Earth, this time in human form. Later he will assume his amphibious form and will rule the world from the waters. Dogon mythology is known only by a number of their priests, and is a complex system of knowledge. Such carefully guarded secrets would not be divulged to friendly strangers very easily. If the star Emme Ya is eventually discovered in the Sirius system, this would give considerably weight to the Dogon's story. The Nommos, who could live on land but dwelled mostly in the sea, were part fish, like merfolk (mermaids and mermen). Similar creatures have been noted in other ancient civilizations -- Babylonia's Oannes, Acadia's Ea, Sumer's Enki, and Egypt's goddess Isis. It was from the Nommos that the Dogon claimed their knowledge of the heavens. The Dogon also claimed that a third star (Emme Ya) existed in the Sirius system. Larger and lighter than Sirius B, this star revolved around Sirius as well. And around it orbited a planet from which the Nommos came. (Sirius A).

Thanks Maggie! I appreciate that. Shoulda named this topic "Earth Mysteries" but I think we can cover that under the more scholarly guise, anyway. Good stuff we have going in here!

(Cheryl), I thought it might have something to do with birds. Since birds go onmassive migrations using magnetic fields, among other things to guide them. That's the theory anyway. But you're right Marcia, it's pretty tough to use magnetism if you have no iron and there's that much water. It is the knowledge of generations that resonate in birds. I suggest reading Rupert Sheldrake. His New Science of Life and The Rebirth of Nature. For the explanations. (Maggie), The Nommo was crucified and resurrected and in the future will again visit the Earth, this time in human form. And was he in Israel at the time? Very interesting, Maggie, thanks for posting it here. :-) They go on to say that it has an is elliptical orbit, with Sirius A at one foci of the ellipse (as it is), that the orbital period is 50 years (the actual figure is 50.04 0.09 years), The Catholic Church has special celebrations for the reconciliation ritual every 50 years too, the year 2000 is one of them. I wonder if there is a connection. The is a private library at the Vatican which is supposed to have the texts to so many mysteries. I would love to see these books.

Moon, if you ever get into that library, count on my being right behind you in felt slippers so we are not overheard. That Vatican also has the largest collection of Pronography, I understand. Fascinating!

this is really interesting!

Wolfie - go check what I just posted in Geo 17. Archaeology. Stone circles. This is where these two topics intersect. Thanks for being interested. It is a cool topic and goes as well with your Paraspring conference as here, don't you think?!

The merfolk or amphipious beings are noted in several belief systems and folklore, but so are winged beings, what many people consider angels.

Then there are the dragons/worms which inhabited so much of Europe. Somewhere lost in the dim past is the truth back of this lore. And, it is another of my passions.

That would bring up another subject: metamorphs. Basically it's the werewolf myth, which is pretty much universal in some form or other. It's not always wolves people turn into, depending on the culture in can be bears, foxes, leopards, jaquars, or even coyotes. Interesting that the animals involved are predators. Okay, bears are omnivores and coyotes will scavenge if they have to.

This is where the linked-to-paraspring comes in. Wolf, are you listening? I believe she has werewolves on her conference: http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/paraspring/7/new I think we're gonna overlap a bunch but that is good...each conference seems to reach different readers. About those morphs, is that how totem animals arose? I am fascinated and know just about nothing about them. Does it involve Shamanism?

don't totem poles depict territories and families? we can link the morphism to indians and their animal spirits. without getting high, i'd like to know how to find out what animal my spirit favors. it would be interesting and insightful.

Hawaiians were really big on household or family gods. These were often shark or turtle or porpoise. Wolf, you are either lupine or delphine connected, it would seem. I seem to be connected to hard stony objects *grin*

This part of the esoterica in which I am a novice. Please educate!

This also links to 'universal stories', in the sense of repeating themes in oral literature. I suppose that corresponds with myths and legends, but I tend to look at them from a linguistic point of view.

I study them for the knowledge behind them and that takes me into linguistics to find out exactly the words used early on before the meaning got lost in vernacular. It is difficult in the utmost to find these early forms, however. What choice goodies have you discovered?

Mine are collected Mandinka stories. Will Start again in Mali. I have one good one somewhere if I can find it.

ok, to the person responsible for making this place look spiffy, HUGS thank you thank you thank you and i love the new lines!

I was just going to compliment you on them. Hmmm...there is something about you I just am lacking. Topics on your conference - none on mine...Perhaps I do not yet deserve them. *sniffle* (For those wondering where the bars are, they are on Paraspring conference to which this is linked.)

? you lost me, sweetie!

Nah! I was just being a spoiled child (did not get the chance as a little kid). I was just noticing who created your topics and who created mine. *sigh* I seem to be the lone stranger in Geo whereas you had the master creating in yours...(see, told ya! spoiled child...now I'm gonna behave...) *hugs*

oh! is that all? *grin* k, they had a show last night on the travel channel (because of miracles like satellite tv, i was unable to watch the grammy's as originally planned) about the giant, the spider, the hummingbird, and did you know about the alien man waving to the sky? there were two shows, one was about the rocks and how they were built. pyramids, the rows and rows of pillars all facing the same direction, etc. very very neat. even heiroglyphics contained people in small capsules like they were flying. way cool. unfortunately, i was way too preoccupied with a craft project to pay complete attention so i hope they show it again.

Oh, Wolfie, we got stuff time-delayed through the miracle of modern technology so you had to live in a vacuum not to know who wom before it even started...so I spent the evening with Geo and interesting people. (Yup! that's all - mostly...feeling wiser and a little foolish this morning *grin*) I did not see the program you mention last night, but it sounds suspiciously like some I have seen produced by sensationalists. One giveaway is the people they use for experts. Graham Hancock is great for casual reading, but he is no scientific and objective archaeologist who reports only certainties and not conjectures. I watched part of one I had seen before about the Mayan sarcophagus with the "space man" on the lid. That was on last night and I turned it off and came back to the monitor. *sigh* Btw, I have three books by Hancock and they are fascinating. But, know the facts before you start reading.

My last comment about metamorphs on this board. I would like to apologize to all those of Irish and or Scottish ancestry, and to my own Scotch-Irish forebearers. (I am from central PA, where almost everybody as some German and Scotch-Irish blood.) I didn't mention selkies or horse fairies. The Selkie were the seal people, they came ashore doffed there sealskins and became people. A really charming film dealing with this legend is "The Secret of Roan Inish". The horse fairies were horses and ponies that could become human. So not all the animals were predators. Seals are predatory if you're a fish, but horses are herbavores. Now back to geomagnetism.

Piskies (yes, spelled right) are Cornish fairies. Just before they disappear altogether from human view they look like ants. it is Not a good idea to step on ants in Cornwall! (I am English/Scots-Irish/German. Join the crowd!) Geomagnetism is all about other worldly stuff...after all, ley lines follow them, no?! And, where is the interface between the real world we see and the unseen world? It is very close to the surface in the Avalon/Glastonbury area...! Cheryl, you were right at home here with your post. *smile*

Geomagnetism and why it is a Good Thing: Radiation from the sun is deadly stuff to living things and to communications (with which I am getting this information to you). Solar wind is deflected by the Earth's magnetism thusly:

Solar wind is deflected by the Earth's magnetism thusly: What about the Ozone layer. Does it not help deflect the radiation from the Sun? Might it also have a magnetic field? In Ireland I always felt as if I were being watched by fairies, crazy but true. You could almost hear them wisper in the wind.

Nice graphic! But the electro-magnetic field of earth doesn't deflect all the particles from the solar wind; if it did we'd never see auroras, right? Interesting...I've never heard about the fairie legends before (other than Morgan Le Fey). Never heard of leylines before this topic, for that matter. What things I learn from this conference... :-)

re: back a few posts Marcia mentioned Rennes-le-Chateau and the book "Holy Blood Holy Grail". I think I saw a program about this back when I had cable TV (must have been The Learning Channel or Discovery). It involved some theory about the descendants of Christ and the Knights Templars, but I don't remember the details. I do remember thinking it was very odd, and a bit "out there", but I am interested in hearing more about it. Can anyone post any info about this, or some good urls?

Geomagnetism: Better sources than I on this subject: http://sec.gsfc.nasa.gov/ http://ub.nmh.ac.uk/ http://geomag.usgs.gov/ Another image for you to ponder: Rennes-le-Chateau: more in next post... If you do a web search you will find oodles of off-the-wall stuff...just like the book. But, it is a fascinating read.

Let's try that image again...

Rennes-le-Chateau: The best overview of Holy Blood Holy Grail is found at http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/metis.htm Her website contains Steve Mizrach's discussion of the book, which is the best on the net. This URl is also part of the Rennes-le-Chateau webring. To me, the most fascinating stuff is not the Merovingian claim to have the blood of Jesus in their veins (thus divine) but the sacred geometry of the entire place and the connection with Poussin's Tomb at Arques painting The Shepherds of Arcadia

Oh yes, which brings us full circle because the Merovingians are part of the One world government of which the latter-day Knights Templar (only the best and brightest, not the rank and file...)and the Trilateralists are also part. Read that website and you will be amazed (forget the bogus religious stuff - that is ridiculous in any case!)

Today's Geomagnetism report from ARRL ( American Radio Relay League) To give you some idea of what is happening out there right now... Solar flux and sunspot activity were down last week, but heading back up. Average solar flux for last week compared to the previous week was down almost 4 points, and sunspot numbers were off about 28 points. The low point was Friday, February 18, when the three solar flux measurements for the day were 139.6, 141.1 and 140.4. The noon measurement of 141.1 is the official reading for the day. Solar flux is expected to rise, with the projection for Friday through Tuesday of 197, 197, 200, 200 and 204. Solar flux for the near term is expected to peak around 205 on Wednesday or Thursday, March 1 and 2, then decline to below 170 by March 9, and bottom out near 130 around March 23 or 24. Planetary A index has been rising, due to a well-placed coronal hole streaming charged particles toward the earth. NASA has an interesting article about this as well as a dramatic photo online at http://www.spacescience.com/headlines/y2000/ast23feb_2.htm. Also check http://www.spaceweather.com, which on Thursday had an article about a gust of solar wind at 1430z on February 24. The projected planetary A index for Friday through Tuesday is 20, 18, 15, 13 and 10. Conditions may be disturbed again around March 4 and 5, and fairly quiet between March 13-20. Based on the current solar rotation, disturbed conditions may recur around March 22-23, and possibly quiet conditions again around March 26-29, although predictions that far in the future are more of a guess. These projections are based upon sunspots and coronal holes moving across the visible solar surface, as the sun rotates relative to earth every 27.5 days. Various features grow and fade with time, and new areas appear. Some are oriented toward earth and have a large effect, while others do not. The coronal hole that is causing the current geomagnetic disturbance has been visible for the last seven solar rotations. Doug Brandon, N6RT wrote to ask about the URL for Cary Oler's Solar Terrestrial Dispatch web site, which seemed to disappear some time back. Doug did some detective work, and found that it had moved. The new site is at http://solar.spacew.com/. George Jacobs, W3ASK has an interesting item in his propagation column in the March issue of CQ Magazine concerning equinoctial propagation. This is about the effect that occurs in spring and fall seasons when the daylight distributed between the northern and southern hemisphere is roughly equal, dependent on how close the date is to the equinox. He says that during March intercontinental openings on 160-30 meters should peak just before local sunrise and again at local sunset. 20 meter openings should peak an hour or two after sunrise and again for an hour or so after sunset. 17-6 meter intercontinental openings should peak during daylight hours. Signals on these upper bands are stronger toward the west around and after sunset, while toward the east they are stronger before noon. He notes that signals to the south are stronger after sunrise and again late in the afternoon. W3ASK has a web site at http://www.gjainc.com/. Sunspot numbers for February 17 through 23 were 152, 146, 126, 131, 122, 129 and 155 with a mean of 137.3. 10.7 cm flux was 168.4 141.1, 144.8, 153.3, 152.1, 172.3 and 185.1, with a mean of 159.6, and estimated planetary A indices were 6, 2, 4, 5, 15, 5 and 9, with a mean of 6.6.

last night, i watched a program about the pharoahs (and queen turned king) of egypt. it seems ramses (sp?) was the unnamed pharoah during the mass exodus of the israelites from egypt. he went one on one with God. it was equally as fascinating to learn of the "acting" ruler of egypt in place for her stepson who, by mutual agreement, took the throne and ceremonially called herself king and wore the pharoah's clothing and a beard. she accomplished many things that the male pharoahs could not or would not. after her stepson became pharaoh (upon her death) he decided that she should not be remembered and there was evidence of her name being removed from monuments. funny, she left a message that future generations would know she ruled egypt even though the people of egypt would try to eradicate her memory. i was totally fascinated with the whole thing. would love to visit egypt and see these things for myself.

I watched that,as well. Most fascinating about the palace intrigues and the intricate marriages arranged with next of kin. They were not subtle aobut removing all traces of Hatshepsut from the heiroglyphs.

I had seen a similar story about that, a while back. Truly fascinating! Fortunatly for us, not everything about her was destroyed. Seems there is always some forgotten wall, pillar, etc. that reveals another wonderful and mysterious story!

I agree that Hatshepsut is one of the most fascinating pharaohs. Her tomb is magnificent too (I want to see it sometime).

(me too...but perhaps in another life when I come back as an Archaeologist...)

Meanwhile...back at the possible ley-lines, please note the following map (also posted in Archaeology). Each little red dot is a stone circle or alignment

That is a clickable map from one of the best resources online for things megalithic: http://www.megalith.ukf.net/bigmap.htm

kewl!

It really is! Has anyone ever figured how to post a clickable map to another website. That would be REALLY Kewl!

Hokule'a crew returns home tired but happy By Leila Fujimori A tired but happy Nainoa Thompson says it was a very special day. After an eight-month voyage to Rapa Nui and back, Hokule�a is home. Shanell Ching, navigator for the final leg of the journey, said, "It's an honor and a privilege to bring the Hokule�a home." The 32-year-old navigated the Polynesian sailing canoe, using only traditional methods, from Tahiti to Hawaii in a record 21 days. Hokule�a sailed into Kaunakakai Harbor tonight receiving a welcome of hula, chants and leis from Molokai residents, as well as crew members' friends and family. The 15 crew members first caught sight of landfall about 7:20 p.m. yesterday, when they spotted the lights of Hilo. The voyage to Rapa Nui signifies reaching the final and easternmost point in the Polynesian Triangle -- the migration routes of ancient Polynesian navigators. On Oct. 8, Hokule�a arrived at Rapa Nui, or Easter Island, the most isolated and remote Polynesian island. Hokule�a will depart Molokai for Oahu on March 11, in time for a homecoming celebration at Kualoa Park. The event will also mark the 25th anniversary of its launching. The formal morning program will be followed by entertainment, educational activities, food and other programs from noon to 5 p.m. Ching said exceptional conditions allowed the Hokule�a to quickly sail through the doldrums, a region known for dead calms and light breezes. At times, however, Ching was challenged by rain swells and overcast skies that obscured the stars and other celestial bodies used in navigation.

One of my freinds has a son on the crew of the Hokule'a. She said the only modern convenience they had was a radio-phone. No watches, no calendars, nothing modern. When they called home they were forbidden to ask the day or time or anything else which the ancient Polynesians would not have known. They really DID do it the Old-Fashioned way...very old!

Yes, it was a wonderful ocean voyage, although it did the virtual way. Thanks for the URL Marcia.

oh, the Hokule`a is a ship! i was wondering there for a minute!! the only way to copy a clickable map is to do a "view source" and copy all the links over with it (i guess!)......

Yeah...then you duplicate someone else's website. That is a little too cheeky for even me to attempt - but I am sure you are right. I'll just use the URL and go there to do my clicking. I am just happy they put it on a transparent background. It does look lovely! Glad you enjoyed the virtual voyage. I'll let you know when the next one goes!

Sounds kind of like the Kon-Tiki and Ra expeditions of Thor Heyerdahl. Hard to imagine anyone crossing the open ocean in a balsawood raft, and surviving! I started looking at that Rennes-le-Chateau website you posted, Marcia. It sure sounds like the stuff I heard about on that TV show I saw a while back. That show did talk about some weird geometry and a painting. I assume it was the painting you mentioned. *Weird* stuff, but I haven't had time to read much of it, yet... Did you say there is a modern day Knights Templars organization? Do they have any real ties to the historic Templars? How do the Rosicrucians relate to them? They always seemed like a pretty bizarre group, too.

The modern-day Knights Templar are part of the Freemasons of today. I think there is no connection with Rosecrutions - at least when my father was a Mason. Illuminati and the like are also suggested as connected in some way. Of this I know nothing other than what I have read by the disgruntled and the guessers. Of course, when asked, any Freemason would categorically deny any association. but that may or may not be true, as well!

My father was also a Mason, but naturally he wouldn't tell me any of their secrets. Seems like another odd group, from the open ceremonies I was allowed to attend. My brother was also a Mason for a while, but he hated it and let his membership lapse.

Until the 60'd happened and turned the world upside down, Masonic attachment was a form of prestige. I do not know if anything internal happened to them, but Kings and Presidents were all Masons. If you were a shaker or mover, it was expected of you. My father was not a joiner, but this one he took to heart and became a 33rd degress Master Mason eventually - about as high as you can go.

My brother felt the Masons were bigots and racists...maybe it was just the lodge he joined, but he felt it was part of the actual wording of the ceremonies. I got the impressions that the Masons were once a "blue blood" sort of organization...had to be of a certain social standing, etc., to join.

Oh, indeed...one had to have proven himself a man of worth usually self-made men were most admired, but inherited status was also good (as in Kings). They are elitist, but not necessarily snobs. Shriners do a tremendous amount of good works but that branch did not appeal to my serious-minded father. All you have to be is free and accepted and believe in God. Blacks and Jews and all others that I know of were welcome. Perhaps it has changed and people are reading things into the wording of the degrees and ceremonies which meant different things in another era. I truly do not know since my father was tight-lipped about all thing Masonic.

Hmm...maybe it was just the interpretations by the lodge my brother joined, then.

It is entirely possible. When my Dad retired from New Rochelle, NY and eventually settled in Tucson, Arizona, he did not care for the chapter there so did not transfer his membership He remained a member in good standing and had a Masonic funeral.

they're probably sworn to secrecy. another lady i work with has a masonic ring for her wedding ring. i had heard that those organizations are dark when you get into the stuff they keep hidden. the good works are only surface stuff. don't know, really, never had any associations with them. the kids love the shriners because of their cute cars. that and helping crippled children is all i can associate shriners with. how did we get on this subject? *grin*

Sacred geometry and "Holy Blood Holy Grail" discussion. This is the topic in Geo and Paraspring where we let it hang out and see what sort of things come to surface. Yup! Masons are sworn to secrecy...but I am sure my father would have exited immediately from any organization which worshipped the dark side or even pretended. Either some chapters have gone off on their own or others are reporting erroneous information - or both!

You have left out Surrey - in your showing of Stone Circles etc. One thing we do have is circles of ancient trees - one of which is near Polesden Lacey and is on the way to Boxhill. There definitly ley lines in Surrey - one on St. Martha's Hill a very strange place - have often picnicked there - you can actually see the ley line it is extremely magnetic and has a strange feel around it. These cirles of ancient trees - Yew most of them are also strange and much used in Witchcraft. In Bookham there is a very ancient common - woods where witchcraft is still practiced. When Heather my friend and I were searching for Ley lines we came across the circle used by them. My dog who was with us behaved in a peculiar manner, but it was he who found it. Of course they would be fully aware of the ancient ley lines and use them.

Anne! How we have needed you here. Bless your new motherboard! Thanks for this posting. More!!! I did not know about the rings of trees and other wondrous things in Surrey. You have actually searched for Ley lines?! Hey, Gang! We have a real expert now! Thank you more than I can say!

Leith Hill did get a mention earlier with its nine parish boundaries intersecting and the tower that ensured a viewpoint over 1,000ft high in South-East England. There is also a pond near Boxhill traditionally believed to be bottomless. Surrey is my original stamping-ground too, though I am not a big believer in ley-lines. Also I do not see why dogs would be susceptible to geo-magnetism; is the theory that humans would be, but have shut it out? An excellent walk on the Surrey/Sussex border once took us through whole groves of ancient yews (the spookiest things you ever saw) up to the Devil's Stepping Stones, a series of tumuli running along a ridge of the South Downs.

*Sigh* I wish I could have tagged along on any of these hikes. Boxhill is famous in ley-hunters books. Perhaps it is time to mention the types of barrows found in that part of England. Anyone who has visited the area know exactly where Frodo was in Lord of the Rings when they were trying to evade the evils coming from the barrows (don't want to give anything away here for someone else who might like to read the books.) But, that is a topic for Archaeology (Geo 17)

mark, what you said is exactly right on. animals are very suseptible to the "other worldly" matters. dogs can hear their owners' vehicles up to 4 miles away! so, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they can detect strong magnetism in certain spots. we (the human animal) are so afraid to venture out into the unknown (the survival instinct) and question everything we cannot see or touch. it's amazing that we believe in aliens but question the existance of God! not trying to preach at all. love tolkein. my dad has every book that man has written plus the books with his maps and everything. ring of trees is interesting. could they have been used as territorial markers the way farmers lined their fields? and when we're talking witches, do we mean wiccan or sorcerers?

More on the insult to Stonehenge plus some fascinating material which goes along with the ley line theme: http://www.mistral.co.uk/hammerwood/earthwav.htm Buildings and landscapes, temples, Mother of all - Earth, the physics of invisible and immortal by David Pinnegar BSC ARCS URGENT SOS: THE TIMES NEWSPAPER REPORTS THAT STONEHENGE IS IN DANGER An old man once asked what was the difference between someone from the town and someone from the countryside. "The town man", he said, "is clever. The country man is wise". Town men might laugh at the bee-keeper talking to his bees or the seedsman talking to his plants and tell them that they are mad. When a swarm of wild bees in the walls of Hammerwood heard a bee-keeper proposing to kill them for fear of the spread of disease, the bees heard him and felt my fear for them! Within two hours they had fled elsewhere. Increasingly that which was unimaginable is now understandable. What would the medieval peasant have thought about that biblical story of Adam being put to sleep, cut open, the extraction of a rib and his being sewn back together, alive? In the past, life was simple - it was all a matter of belief. As we ate of the tree of knowledge, life became less clear. With imperfect knowledge Darwinists told us that we evolved from a primeval sea of life and they disrupted the faith of many. Yet scientific understanding of the DNA mechanism may yet confirm conclusively our old beliefs. If life ever evolved from chaos, the ancient myths suggest that it did so in another creation. What was light long ago has faded into darkness. Imperfect knowledge plunges us into a sea of uncertainty but in the deeper knowledge of science we rediscover the beauty of creation. The job common to artists, priests and scientists is to make that which was invisible visible. The task of the museum curator is to preserve the source materials. Astrology should by reason have no connexion with fact or science. It's apparent former connotations with spiritualists and the occult justified its treatment with the ultimate of caution and scepticism. The availability of modern computer software, however, has transformed the treatment of the subject from a dubious art to a calculated mechanism. Upon acquiring such an "instant astrologer" program over the recent year, purely for fun, my perception of the subject has been transformed. The results, based upon accurate information relating to the subject's time and place of birth, can often give a most remarkable insight into the characteristics of the person concerned. Their strengths and weaknesses, when revealed can be of positive benefit to them. Large commercial organisations take astrology as seriously as graphology in parallel with CVs in assessing prospective candidates for jobs. So why should it work? What connexion can there be between our destiny cast at the time of our birth and the planets and stars? The idea that gravity is involved is not new: The moon and planets all exert their gravitational forces and this has a visible effect on the tides. The connexion with the perception of water in our bodies is then derived. Epidemiologists take the subject seriously. But the effect is more than the simple alteration of water levels: each planet and astral constellation appears to exert differing characteristics which affect our behaviour. (People's behaviour, as well as the weather, is currently being influenced by a massive heavenly body which is travelling through the solar system. The effect is almost as a perpetual full moon!) We are controlled by thought and, if the results of astrology are testimony to the effect, there is an apparent communication in the control of our thought at the moment we are born. Astrology thus provides an idea that there is some influence of the heavenly bodies upon our thoughts by reason of a gravitational communication, some sort of telepathy. Matthew 17:20 If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting. John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? At risk of ridicule, an American hypnotherapist, Dolores Cannon records in her book "Keepers of the Garden" an account of a patient who under regression was, if you like, under the delusion that he was an extra-terrestrial upon another planet. Hiroshima sent waves to "them up there" and, he says, "they" are worried by us. Before quantum physics, conventionalists who had heard of relativity would have said it was impossible - nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. According to Cannon's patient "them up there" know what we are thinking: the pyramids and the Washington Monument are the earth's telepathic transmitters! Such a concept may not be as ridiculous as it seems: if telepathic waves are gravitational, tall massive obelisks will vibrate with the earth beneath them, just as a seismologist's earthquake measuring device, and transmit waves like our tall television transmitters. Similarly, the one thing common to pyramids is mass which leads to the distortion of the earth's gravitational field, with chambers, tunnels and long small shafts - just like gravitational microwave resonators, waveguides and transmitters. The Natural Law Party of Transcendental Meditationalists with their ridiculed Yogic Flying claim that, by 200 of their members practising in an area afflicted by inner-city troubles, they can reduce the crime rate. The idea is that they are reducing their mind to the purist levels of thought and conveying these by some telepathic influence. They must believe it with the greatest of sincerity. In the course of Yogic meditation, not only is the mind straightened into coherent thoughts, just as light waves in a laser, but the back is straightened. Perhaps in the connexion of our brain to the straightened spine and thereafter to an array of bones in the rib cage we have within each of us a powerful capacity to transmit and receive telepathic waves. As Christians, when we pray, we must believe in telepathy because how else are we allowing "the spirit" of God to talk to us and we to Him? And don't we believe that the more of us who are praying simultaneously, the more influence our prayers might have on world events? The ancient Cretans believed in the earth as mother and their buildings had to pay reverence to the earth and all that lived therein (Vincent Scully The Earth, the Temple and the Gods). The Minoan palaces together with the Greek temples were carefully aligned upon manifestations of the earth's features - its valleys and its hills. Just as we look at television transmitting aerials (dipoles) and might compare them to "telepathic" obelisks, another form of television aerial familiar to us has arrays of parallel elements - just like the repeating masses of the columns of ancient Greek temples, aligned on massive distortions of the earth's gravitational field. Perhaps neither the Classicists nor the Gothicists were wrong in their differing advocations for church architecture? Perhaps we may rediscover the legendary secret knowledge of the ancient stone masons? Perhaps churches must have either tall towers or spires pointing to heaven, or vast arrays of classical columns focused in a portico? Within such churches, whether gothic or classical, more columns are to be found binding the members of the church together and holding up the roof and perhaps connecting gravitational waves as we pray. Modern physics confirms that there is matter, perhaps called "super-symmetric matter", which we can neither see nor detect because it is independent of the properties of electrons and electromagnetism. (This suggests the veracity of the otherwise incredible story of Claude Vorilhon Rael, which includes a specific reference to metal: "The book which tells the truth"). In the "Super Unification Thory" of modern physics, super-symmetric matter is linked with the nature of gravity. The transmission of matter symmetry information is required by modern quantum theory to be instantaneous. Because super-symmetric matter contains none of the properties of electrons, electromagnetic waves cannot interact with it and we therefore cannot see it. Gravitational waves do affect us: there are people who we call "lunatics" who are directly affected by the gravity of the moon. We see the water of the tides move too. We are ourselves 90% water - and our brains are equally full of it. The water molecule is physically and electrically lop-sided, imbalanced. As water molecules move, electrical charges move and interfere with other electrical charges moving in our brains. As our brains move charges, they move water molecules with them! The formerly incredible and intangible begins thus to have foundation in physics. Our ancient beliefs of what we were told at the beginning of time should be our foundation: departure from these is more likely to be an aberration of an imperfect science rather than an imperfection of what we were told. When we meet the next messenger of our Creation, will we believe him when he is sent to tell us of things unseen now to us but seen in heaven? Will we recognise "the Son of man coming from the clouds"? Will we crucify him too? That which was inconceivable a couple of generations ago now seems possible and daily the scientists are proving creation to be true. Week by week we learn of new advances in our knowledge of DNA, including in 1995 the discovery of the section of DNA which counts the number of times a cell has divided and thereby controls the lifetime of the body. The removal of this section from the DNA code results in a body of everlasting lifetime. Immortals and those pre-flood lifetimes of hundreds of years are myth no more. -------------------- Loads more links at the above URL on the subject

(Have just finished listening to the BBC radio dramatised version of Lord of the Rings on a set of cassettes. Enthralling if you like that sort of thing. Well, we enjoyed it anyway.) Hadn't thought of Box hill in that connection. We went there for school trips.

The stone circles of The Gambia Although West Africa has no monuments comparable to the Pyramids and Temples of Ancient Egypt or the ruins of Zimbabwe, it has in the stone circles of the Senegal and the Gambia impressive remains that have puzzled the few travellers who have examined them. Stone circles of many types are found throughout Europe and the Near East, though nowhere is there so large a concentration as found on the north bank of the river Gambia. Here there are hundreds of circles containing many curious features and in particular the unique V or Lyre stones. The commonest shape is round like a pillar with a flat top. Others are square; some taper upwards. There are small stones with a cup-shaped hollow on top. Others have a ball cut in the round top of the stone. There is a recumbent stone shaped like a pillow. The Circles are composed of standing stones between ten and twenty four in any particular circle. One of the striking feature is that almost all the stones forming a given circle are of the same height and size. Their height above the ground varying between two hundred and forty five (245cm) centimeters and sixty centimeters (60cm). The diameter is from thirty centimeters (30cm) to one hundred centimeters (100cm). The largest stones which are at N'jai Kunda must weigh about ten tons each. They were brought down a steep hillside and their transportation on rollers or on hammocks must have presented formidable difficulties and have required a considerable labor force. The stone circles at Wassu As a results of Laboratory tests at the University of Dakar, the date of the sample was found to be from 750 A.D plus or minus 110 years. The stones were cut out of laterite (" a cementation of ferruginous sandstone ") that occurs in large outcrops in this region. It is a feature of this stone that it hardens upon exposure to the air, and that prior to such exposure it is relatively easy to quarry. Where several circles are found on the same site the exterior stones form a continuos line as at Wassu. A lot of explanations have been given about the shape of the Senegambia Stone Circles by Islamic historians and wise observers. One of such explanations was revealed by the late Alhaji Kemoring Jaiteh a well known Islamic scholar of Kuntaur Fulla Kunda in Niani. According to his writings, if a small stone stands near a large one, that shows that, some one was buried with his/her child. Similarly, if the stones are V-shape, that pictures that two close relatives died on the same day and were buried together. The circles are said to be built around mounds of kings and chiefs, in the same way as royal persons were buried in the ancient empire of Ghana. Once Islam was brought into Senegambia in the 11th century, devout Muslims especially the "Karamos" were also buried in the same way. Consequently, some of these Circles became holy places. Today, small stones and vegetables like tomatoes are still left on the stones. Some of these stones are said to shine bright at night. from URL: http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcacamara/stones.html

Thanks, Maggie. Thanks for getting us out of the insular mode and into the wider world of stone circles. There are even Amerindian one. Fascinating. The url is always welcome and as soon as I am fully awake I'm going there to look for pictures.

Maggie's Pictures of African Stone Circles:

Very interesting. Looks like they had to fabricate their megaliths out of smaller stones or bricks. Thanks! Most interesting. Are they on Ley Lines, as well?

Did you get my email? That's why I asked if there was a ley line map of Africa. I wondered if it was connected. Did the pictures send OK by email, I just lifted them off the site and they downloaded as jpeg files. These stones are made out of the stuff they make roads with. It's a red stone, I think it's cut in one piece rather than made up of lots of small stones. It just looks crumbly.

I have not checked for one yet, but it is on the earth's E-Line which I mentioned above. I am sure one (leyline map for Africa) exists. Will hunt for one next. If you look at the first post I made this morning in here it contains your photos you emailed me and I put on Spring's hard drive. Thanks so much - I never would have thought of looking for stone circles in Africa. Have you seen any?

This is part of a very long but fascinating article on what are ley lines and are they real. Check it out http://www.isr.umd.edu/~jasonp/leyline.html Ley Lines and Coincidence "So, recently folks have been connecting up all these ancient sites with straight lines. They can get four, five, even six of them, all in a row." "Sure, but it's all by chance, isn't it?" Is it? Every time I brought up the ley phenomenon to the uninitiated, I was immediately cut off by this question. The English countryside is full of very ancient sites and earthworks, and many of these fall on alignments over ten miles long, with eerie accuracy. Examples can be found of these "ley lines" that seem to defy the law of averages, and one would be hard-pressed to believe that such cases could possibly arise by chance. This paper will explore the statistics of ley lines. Leys are a controversial topic, and objections to their being intentional have arisen from many directions. I will examine what physically constitutes a ley line and then review previous work on how likely a ley line is to arise by chance. A sizeable portion of this paper will then be devoted to my own computer experiments. Note in passing that to focus on ley statistics requires being sketchy in other areas. What's In a Ley? The simplest answer is "prehistoric standing stones and earthworks", but already there is controversy. Prehistory spans a very long period, and when two random "ancient" structures are chosen it is possible that these features were constructed in periods separated by almost 4000 years (WB 1983:31). Thus those two structures could have been constructed by very different societies, and have had nothing to do with each other. Many ley hunters when including (non-prehistoric) churches in leys, cite a letter from Pope Gregory in 601 AD stating that pagan "temples" ought not to be destroyed, but purified and converted to churches (Watkins 194:117). Indeed, there are standing stones in country churchyards, as Watkins shows. Including all churches because of this, however, is unrealistic. Devereux and Thomson list a ley through London that consists of five medieval churches, despite the fact that "...the city site, while not completely de- serted...was of no special importance until the Romans founded their settlement" (WB 1983:138) Likewise with castles: a mound is more defensible than flat ground, and many prehistoric mounds exist; castle keeps, then, belong on ley lines. It is again unrealistic, however, that all medieval nobility would have their choice of castle site dictated by existing terrain, when they could simply have the terrain modified to suit their wishes exactly. Watkins hypothesized that ley lines were the sighting points for a vast network of "straight tracks" that covered prehistoric England, and his book includes several crossroads used as ley points and instances of dirt pathways uncovered in the course of sewer excavation (Watkins 1948:38-39). The impression received is that deciding whether a given site is a viable candidate for being a "ley point" is a difficult matter and would often require archaeological evidence. Ley hunting is typically an easy matter, however. Most ley hunters would only connect the ley points on an Ordnance Service (OS) map and then confirm the ley points in the field. Most do not perform more orthodox research which would tell, for example, that the straight paths through England are mostly "Planned Countryside" enacted by Parliament in the 18th and 19th Centuries, while older tracks than these are "notoriously devoid of straight lines" (WB 1983:88). Notice also that many of the citations in this paper are from Williamson and Bellamy, both archaeologists; this is because they include historical evidence where others do not. In fairness to the existing material, "questionable" ley sites (small mark stones, trees, stretches of modern road) are usually ignored in a published ley. How wide must an "old straight track" be? Watkins insisted that ancient tracks be just wide enough to travel on foot, perhaps two to four yards (DT 1979:72). Using a very sharp pencil on an OS map produces an effective line about 30 feet wide; this would be about the best one could expect without doing fieldwork. Statistical studies often could not work with widths less than a hundred yards (see Appendix). Ley Statistics Watkins was the first (1925) to attempt answering the question of whether ley lines of significant size could arise by chance (Watkins 1948:203-204). The OS sheet of Andover contains 51 churches that can be organized into 1 five-point, 8 four-point and 29 three-point leys. To see how many leys could be expected by chance he marked out 51 crosses "haphazardly" on a similar size sheet, and found no five-point, 1 four-point and 33 three-point leys. He concluded from this that with 50 sites, finding a four- point ley by chance was unlikely, and a five-point ley was ironclad evidence that the placement was deliberate. From this he developed a rating system (DT 1979:31) that assigned points to possible ley features: "ancient sites" got a full point, and incidental features like stretches of road, "mark stones", or "ancient trees" fractions of a point. If the total summed to 5 or more the ley was deemed to be deliberate. Peter Furness in 1965 derived a closed-form expression (details unavailable) for the probability of a given size ley existing (DT 1979:38), and from this declared that a seven-point ley would only arise in 1 out of 1000 OS maps. Further (WB 1983:94), assuming a given map had 200 ley points, he calculated that one could expect 1570 three-point, 72 four-point and 2 five-point alignments to occur by chance. Confirmation of a sort came from Robert Forrest (WB 1983:95), whose computer study is the only one of its kind available. His 200 random point run found that 752 three-point, 33 four-point and 2 five-point ley lines existed by chance alone, and suggested that Watkins' criterion of a five-point ley being almost impossible was unrealistic for large collections of points. Both these studies required many assumptions (WB 1983:96-98): that there were only 200 points in the average map (the average is 300 to 400), that they were all small (some earthworks can reach 10 acres in area), all evenly distributed, etc. Accounting for these factors theoretically would have been next-to-impossible, so Forrest instead ran a simulation. This involved looking at a sample map, randomizing the points in it but keeping their distribution the same, and plotting all the ley lines by hand. This time many more lines were found: 39 five-point, 10 six-point and 1 seven-point alignments. There is also a famous study by John Michell, but I omit it due to doubts about its assumptions. The interested reader should consult (WB 1983:102-106). Personal Investigation "The past evidence for leys is statisti- cally poor. It is to be hoped that future evidence will be of a much more rigorous nature." -Robert Forrest (DT 1979:39) Computer work on ley line statistics seems to have stopped, and I wondered if more could be learned with modern computers and recent mathematical results. I therefore have tried to analyze the available evidence based on my own numerical experiments. Though I have attempted to make assumptions as realistic as possible, getting answers requires ignoring a lot of information, like the length of a given ley or the topography of the sample region. The research methodology and results continue in this fascinating article. Thanks, Maggie, for sending me the URL for it.

here's a url for crop circles (gonna post in physical phenom too): http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1700/Crop-Circles/PB-Crop-Circles.html slow-loading so be patient!

Oh yes! Loads of them...artbell.com even has a link...Loads of them around Stonehenge in the summer and early Autumn. Thanks, Wolfie...I'll post more and some pictures as well.

I have a little bit of information about magnetic fields in the ocean. It seems that the lemon sharks hatched in the Bimini Lagoon unfailing return every year their natal waters to lay their own eggs. How do they find their way? Magnetic fields. It seems the sharks can sense the proper magnetic field, get onto it, and use like a highway to get to their destination. It never fails them. It would seem knowing where you're going is really important when you're a fish that can't swim backward.

indeed! *lol*

Right...and it just will not do for sharks to surface all that often to check polarization as Whales and Turtles and other air breathers do. Condsidering that Sharks are unchanged from the time of dinosaurs, they must have hit on the right combination early in their evolution! Thanks, Cheryl. Guess I did not know that!

Now folks a serious question to do with geomagnatism. Some years ago I was told I study Astronomy by the way and meteorology, that they couldn't find the magnetic north pole - apparantly it keeps wondering about the place - now that must have an effect on ley lines etc. The pool near Boxhill that was being talked about is called the Mill Pond it has not far from the edge and extraordinarily deep hole - and when you look at it it is coloured the deepest and most beautiful blue - and we were told as children not to swim in the Mill Pond because it was so deep. In fact for many years Leatherhead my home town had all its water from there - it was the softest, tastiest water I have ever tasted - now its been taken over and they get London water. ugh. Do you think whales beach themselves because of the change in the magnetic north sorry to switch back but strange things are happening around the world and its got my attenae working. Mark what part of Surrey are you from.

Let me post this first, then I will tackle Anne's comments... http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/plate_tectonics/rift.html Rift in the ocean floor through which red-hot magma is squeezed up from the mantle. The magma solidifies with a magnetic polarity corresponding to that of the Earth's magnetic field. After a long interval of time, the Earth's polarity changes, that is, the magnetic north pole becomes the magnetic south pole, and so the polarity of the newly formed crust changes, too. As new magma is squeezed in, the older crust is moved out from the midocean ridge like a conveyor belt. This produces a series of strips of rock magnetized in opposite senses, with the magnetic stripes parallel and symmetrical to the ridges. Shallow-focus earthquakes occur on the ridge; intermediate and deep-focus earthquakes occur on the downgoing plate as it collides with another plate.

Better than I could ever explain it and with great diagrams, here is the scoop on the Magnetic North Pole: http://geo.phys.uit.no/articl/roadto.html It is a super read and super easy to understand. There is some conjecture that the beached animals are already sick in such a way as to render their location-sensing system inactive or sending incorrect messages. Perhaps it is a reflex to move to a place where they will not drown if they become incapacitated. Beaching would accomplish that. But, Until we can talk to them we really won't know, I imagine!

i've heard that there is usually one animal in the group who is ill and the others follow to offer it support. interesting about the north pole moving around. maybe the magnetism has something to do with the moon (like tides)...

The moon is large enough to cause tides as it revolves around us. When it is on the same side of us that the sun is, the tidal pull is stronger and the tides higher. Spring tides are strongest because in our eliptical orbit, the sun is closest to us. It is more centrifugal - centripital force than magnetism which does the pulling.

how does the moon pull then? just by the force as it runs around us? interesting.....

Yup! It is massive enough that it is being held into orbit by the sun pulling one way and the Earth pulling the other. That is often how they discover second stars orbiting a large star or planets orbiting a single star. The stars in question tend to have less-than-perfect orbits, and these "Perturbations" are due to the pull of the planets or the minor stars orbiting them.

Btw, the moon is massive enough and so is the sun, that when they pull on the same side of the orbit, it will cause tides in the liquid rock on which the plates float thus bending the plates themselves (Mike? Or is is just on the crust?)

Oh yeah, there are more earthquakes at the dark of the moon (like right now) than any other time - for that very reason!

Well thank you all for your explanations - especially that at the dark of the moon. Also one of our weather forecasters told us the moon is nearer to us at present - or at least he said so a couple of weeks ago. That must make a difference to the liquid magma I suppose.

Anne, I wish I could claim I was from 'proper' Surrey - I am in fact from Cheam (now part of Greater London). We went for a walk yesterday from Boxhill station out towards Polesden Lacey and back through Westhumble. Went past Tanners Hatch, a remote youth hostel spoiled by bombs in the War. We read that during the rebuilding in 1970, an old woman knocked on the door one evening asking the way to Wotton Hatch. She was invited in by the National Trust people and given a meal, and complimented them on the work done to the house, saying she had lived there herself long ago. When the time came for her to leave the door was opened, but she had disappeared, and an owl was sitting on the back of the chair she had been in, the same owl that had been the only creature watching the renovation work. You have to see this cottage in its little thickly-wooded valley to appreciate the spookiness of this story, however apocryphal. Nothing to do with Geomagnetism and sharks, sorry. Is magnetism the way that turtles always make it back to their home beach to lay eggs, despite travelling across oceans for years in between?

Geomagnetism is usually for thin-skinned (no shell) creatures who are do not surface for air. The air-breathers are usually navigating by polarization of sunlight(which also works on cloudy days) much as the Vikings did after they figured it out...or remembered it again. Mark, that was the most incredible story! It is 6am and still dark outside; I am now full of chills of the most incredible sort. Thanks for sharing that story. I'll bet being there was even more amazing. I'll bet it was mentioned on the walk back!

that's some story, mark, an owl....the turtles use the stars (as they hatch at night) and for this reason, some are found going the wrong way because they are fooled by the street lights. i would love to sit on the beach and watch these turtles make their way home.

I would love to watch the hatching little scapers, but it would be beyond me to not interfere with the little ones who go astray and that is strictly forbidden. We have them here and I guess I could arrange to be in on one. Hmmm...! Is anyone interested in experiencing something incredible? Dowsing? I am an extreme skeptic but my son taught me and it is the most astounding thing to have rods swiveling in your hands when you are not moveing them! I can tell you how and what you need...

There is conjecture that some birds use polarized light and others use star patterns as turtles do (you are right about that, Wolfie!)...and Polynesians!

Have you decided how dowsing works? - I don't think it's magic!

Not magic at all - at least the kind I will teach you - we localed the pipes and electrical circuit under our cement slab floor and out into the septic tank using this method and it works incredibly precisely!

don't you need a willow branch? the only willow in my neighborhood is in someone's yard and i don't think they'd appreciate me sneaking over there in the middle of the night to get a forked branch! dowsing amazes me though! and yes, i'd love to try, so do tell us, it'd be a "hands on" lesson!!

I do not know how to hunt for water with a willow branch. When I told the house male what David showed me the ever-skeptical IO said he had done it lots of time himself but did not let on he did. It worked for him, too. Get thee to a auromotive parts store or wherever you can find bronze brazing rods. Mine are about 36" or 1 meter long. You'll need two. They are skinny so I used empty stick ball pen outsides with the ink chamber removed. You're gonna need a vise here or a pair of pliers and a strong arm 'cause you need to bend at a right angle about 4" (10 cm) of one end. David used just his bare hands but I found it easier to hold steady with a larger thing to grip. The rods must be held loosely enough to swing freely.

Now that you have them in your hands and you can pivot your body without moving your feet and have the rods swing in them, we are off to try them out. Holding them so the long parts are parallel to the ground and with your elbows tight to your sides so you do not try to move the rods, consider your hands and arms extensions of your rods. Work in your house first so you know if there are pipes under you and that you are NOT moving the rods. Holding your arms and wrists rigid and holding loosely to your rods but keeping them straight out in front of you, walk slowly across the room.

I'm sorry to throw the topic back to the Moon, but it is a massive sattelite to the Earth. Being 1/6 the size of the Earth makes it so large in fact that the Earth and Moon together can be considered a double planet. At one time it was much closer to the Earth, making for a year of 44 months and phenomenally high tides which rushed across the Earth's surface.

You are right, of course! Thanks for bringing that up. (They are busy walking across the floor with their brazing rods...) The Moon is considered to be a captured protoplanet which did not make it. Unless there has been another theory posited since I last checked!

There is the theory that the Moon is a part of the infant Earth which was knocked loose by a comet.

I have heard of that, as well, but I have not seen a good representation of what that must have looked like and I just cannot imagine the Earth as a dumb-bell. ...the inhabitants, however...!

wait, i haven't been to the auto parts store...what are brazing rods? and do the ends of the separate rods both go into one ball pen container? then you bend the opposite ends where you hold on?

Thbey'll know. They are brass rods which are about the thickness of the neck wire on a wooden coar hanger...and about a yard (meter) long.

You'll need two pen outsides. One empty ball pen or felt kiddies marker works even better in each hand.

Mark, I was actually born in Epsom Hospital just up the road from you! My mother used to work in West Ewell. I also lived in Ashtead from 1979-85 where my interest in ley lines and all things odd from the past started. Mainly because of Stane Street, Roman remains in Ashtead found by St. Giles Church - they found a tiled floor of a Roman Villa - and the tile factory remains are still in Ashtead Woods - worth looking for. Ashtead woods is very ancient and you can walk there from Ashtead Station - throught the common to the wood on the other side of the station from walking into the village - well worth walking through that was my daily walk with my dog. Makes me homesick. What a story about the house - it always felt spooky that walk from Polesden Lacey to Boxhill done it lots of times. Anne

* s i g h *

There was a ford over the River Mole at Leatherhead - Mark I expect you know it the pub the Running Horse is nearby! that is really ancient - pre Iron Age even and on the way to Stonehenge. The River Mole is strange it called so because it burrows its way in and out of the ground - but is quite delightful especially at the splash in Fetcham another ancient area. Lots of funny names around too Cobham, Oxshott, Bookham, Upper and Lower, Ashtead, Upper and Lower, Effingham, all with probably anglo saxon connatations. Wooton Hatch -m mentioned by Mark. I'll think of some more later my mind's gone blank. The road to Guildford - the Hogs Back, the Devils Punchbowl on the way to Hindhead/Greyshott (Marcia will know that connection!) Stoke D'Abernon how about that one. I'll stop - but strange things do happen in places of ancient habitation.

(salivating and dreaming I am there) You cannot know how happy I am that those ancient trackways and memories are in good keeping. By all means, Mark, take the kids with you and tell them all about it. Incredible. I am so envious! More! Please!

I'll have to have some kids first, Marcia, before I can tell them anything! You want some more odd names Anne, how about Abinger Hammer, the lake called Friday Street, Coldharbour, Normandy, Fox Corner, Holmbury St Mary, Liphook and Churt? I went to school in Epsom and have spent most of my summer weekends playing cricket in places like Brockham, Dorking, Newdigate, Frensham, Rudgwick and Westcott (well those are the nice places, also hundreds of recreation grounds in the Surrey/London suburbs).

Oh, Mark...Dorking? Did you know the Oliviers, too? There is nothing quite as enchanting as seeing a stack of finger posts at an intersection on minor roadways. What lovely names they have on them! Straight out of a childhood book. Thanks for those names, Mark...*sigh*

Sorry I got the cart before the horse on the next generation of your family...or is that the baby carriage?!

Space Science News for March 7, 2000 Lost and Found: Two moons of the gas giant Uranus have been missing for 14 years. Now scientists have re-discovered the long-lost satellites. FULL STORY at Shepherd Moons, Lost and Found SPACE WEATHER NOTE, MARCH 6/7, 2000: For the second night in a row, residents of Canada and the northern United States should be on the alert for aurora borealis. Details at SpaceWeather.com

Mark yes of course, my mind went blank - I do remember forty-foot recreation ground though - and it was much larger than forty-foot. Surrey and Sussex have some wonderful names havn't they. Shere, Gomshall, Hurstmonceaux, Pulborough, Horsham, Crawley, Three Bridges, have walked or cycled to them all in my youth. Abinger Hammer is very special - it has a clock with an old man and a hammer, Ill see if I have a picture of it somewhere. I have lots of Surrey Calendars about the place. All so very old and full of mystery!!

oh boy!!! Good stuff continues to flow and I am scanning my Ordnance Sruvey atlas and following your treks with great relish!

The Lost Moons of Uranus Found! I've always had an affinity for Uranus. Firstly, there's no polite or unfunny way to pronounce it, and it sits on its side. It poles are from east to west, not north to south. So it has an East Pole and a West Pole. As the planets go, Uranus (however you say it) is something of a non-conformist.

a planet rebel! how'd it get that name anyway?

The name is from Roman Mythology. Uranus was the father of the god Saturn and the grandfather of Jupiter. The funny thing about Uranus being a rebel is that in astrology the planet is the ruler of the 11th house, Aquarius, a sign associated with rebels. Then again Ronald Reagan was an Aquarian, go figure.

(whew!) Thanks Cheryl for supplying the answer. I was laughing at the comment "I always had an affinity with Uranus"...it was fraught with possibilities... (none of which are useable in this conference) *grin*

*lol*

Yeah, well as an Aquarian my planetary ruler is Uranus, so I really do have an affinity with the planet. It is one of those things you have to be careful about how you say it, and to whom you say it. I am among friends, hopefully. (grin)

You are among friends here *grin* I pronounce it the way it is supposed to be... Funny...if it is pronounced one way it is rectally offensive. The other way it has to do with the kidneys of two or more individuals. It is a win-win name!!!

Antiquarian?! I knew I liked you!!! Me too!! That means I have an affinity for Uranus, as well?! *giggle*

*lol* oh, this just keeps getting better. people think saying the second pronunciation is so much nicer sounding!!

I was just sitting here thinking (always a dangerous thing for me) and my mind wandered...and went places it does not usually go *lol* I'm a purist and a mythologist. The first pronounciation is the preferred one.

yer anus, that is the preferred pronunciation. amazing and to think that the powers that be decided "her a**" should be "hair us"....*lol*

Everything is bass-awkward anymore. The 'f' word is used as punctuatuion but we worry about sounding vulgar with "Her a$$" Sumthin is seriously wrong here. Yew Ray Nus is the way to say it politely...*grin*...or impolitely!

*lol*

I have been laughing at your reaponse 168 so hard I had to go wash my reading glasses. Ya made'um all blurry!

i'm glad!!

*grin*

ok, chariots of the gods is on right now on TLC (the learning channel). this is the show i talked about earlier in this topic....

http://www.msnbc.com/news/379778.asp?cp1=1 March 9 � Scientists are monitoring ricocheting ripples on the sun�s surface to get their first picture of what�s happening on the far side. They say the technique opens the way for systems that can give an early warning about potentially disruptive solar storms a week or more before Earth feels their effects. LIKE THE UNANTICIPATED ARRIVAL of hurricanes before the advent of weather satellites, a group of previously hidden explosive regions can rotate suddenly into view as the sun turns, blazing away with threatening eruptions. The new technique opens a window to the far side of the sun using the Michelson Doppler Imager instrument on the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, a $1 billion satellite launched in 1995. SOHO, which is operated by NASA and the European Space Agency, monitors the sun from a stable point in space 1 million miles from Earth. �We�ve known for 10 years that in theory we could make the sun transparent all the way to the far side,� solar physicists Charles Lindsey and Douglas Braun said in a written statement released by NASA. �But we needed observations of exceptional quality. In the end, we got them.� Lindsey and Braun described the technique in Friday�s issue of the journal Science and during a NASA briefing Thursday. Lindsey is a researcher at Solar Physics Research Corp. in Tucson, Ariz., while Braun works at NorthWest Research Associates in Boulder, Colo. Their research focused on potentially explosive areas on the sun called active regions. Such regions produce solar flares and eruptions of hot, electrically charged gas called coronal mass ejections. The radiation and gas from these events sweep past Earth at more than 1 million miles an hour (1.6 million kilometers per hour), sometimes disrupting spacecraft, radio communications and power systems. Understanding and forecasting solar eruptions and their consequences has spawned a branch of science called space weather. As the sun rotates on its 27-day cycle, active regions that include concentrations of sunspots move from the far side of the sun to face Earth. But even before the active regions become visible, they send out characteristic sound waves that reverberate through the sun�s interior. �These waves reflect all the way through the sun,� Braun said. The SOHO imager can spot the ripples on the sun�s surface generated by those sound waves, just as seismic instruments on Earth can pick up the reverberations of distant earthquakes. It takes the waves about six hours to rebound from the far side of the sun through the interior, along a path that ricochets off the surface. Lindsey and Braun found that active regions have strong magnetic fields that speed up the sound waves by six to 12 seconds. The difference becomes evident when sound waves shuttling back and forth get out of step with one another, they reported. SOHO data for March 28-29, 1998, revealed a sunspot group on the far side that was not plainly visible on the near side until 10 days later, they said. Observations for 24 hours were more than sufficient to detect the sunspots.

Hmm, looks like we've had a little "conversational entropy" (which is typical for most of my conversations) while I've been away... ;-) To follow the Greek/Roman mythology thread... We could use the Greek pronounciation of Uranus - "oo-ra-NOS", which means "sky". The sky and the earth were the father and mother of the Titans, which included Kronos (Saturn), which means "time". Funny how one can loose two moons! ("Now where did I put those silly things...?") Great to see the Hubble doing its job, though!

Please do keep the other stuff going in here and I will put the extra-terrestrial stuff in geo 24 where it more properly belongs. A third and socially acceptable pronunciation of Uranus. Like it.. we are now talking about noses...rather, NOS's

the extra-terrestrial can go in para/ufo and alien theories... so now we're talking about noses?

If we use the original Greek pronounciation! *lol* Soon we will not have any idea of what the other is speaking with the various "dialects" and socially acceptable ways of saying it. How to confuse the issue BIG time! Yup! Sending the ufos and their passengers over to you...Not my thing, actually.

Actually, extra-terrestrial in Geo-terms means Beyond Earth which is why I named the topic thusly. Extra-terrestrial would have attracted much a different clientele. *grin*

Talking about beyond the earth = got into a discussion with a Jewish friend of ours on the word Nephalim - or giants who slept with the children of men. He went on to say that there was some grounds for thinking Zeus, Jupiter, Hercules etc. from Greek Mythology - perhaps even Mithras, some Egyptian Myths would refer to the same beings not from this world. They were prevalent pre-flood - and from our studies of the great rift valley near Eilat there is definite proof of a great flood of some sort some thousands of years ago. Is this relevant to this one if not please Marcia put into the relevant one. Anne.

By the way it can be found in the Old Testament - Genesis in relation to Noah. Its an interesting topic and some would say the ley lines, anti-magnetic forms of travelling came from that time. I must get Elliot to perhaps share some of his thoughts. He is quite a scholar.

I'm going to create a topic for creation-of-the-Earth lore and mythology. Please encourage your friend to contribute. This one is fine to start off with and please consult the newest topic Geo 28. (Happy me!)

I once took a class on the Book of Genesis. I was confused at the end of the class; I had know idea what was up with the Book of Genesis. To start with in Hebrew God is sometimes referred to as singular and sometimes as plural. (God is always referred to as masculine singular, never feminine singular.) Back to God as plural -- there is a passage where God says that we have done well. Who exactly is he talking to, can't be angels, they didn't have a hand in creation. Then there are the passages regarding the sons of God, but sometimes called the sons of the gods, who came down to Earth and lay with the daughters of men. thus giving rise to the giants who walked the Earth. Oh to backtrack, Cain is banished, goes off and founds the first city, and has a family. Where did these other people come from to populate the city and to provide Cain with a wife. Which leads to my embarassing gaffe in understanding the Scriptures. I thought Adam was practicing beastiality with the animals in the Garden, that was why God felt that it was not good for him to be alone. So God provided him with a companion. This is where things really got wierd. There is the tradition of Lilith, the first wife of Adam, who refused to assume a subserviant sexual position to Adam, fled to the Red Sea, and became the consort of Satan. To be fair the Lilith tradition states that she was created at the same time as Adam and as she fled Eden before the Fall retained her immortality. Then there is the tradition of the first Eve, she was created after Adam, from the same dust as he. God did not cause Adam to sleep and he saw her entire creation. It disgusted him, so much he wouldn't even go near her. I have no idea what happened to the first Eve so the way could be open for the second Eve. She who is said to be the Mother of Us All, although maybe not of Cain's wife.

Right you are..Cheryl! I tool OT as literature in College just prior to taking OT archaeology. Elohim is plural! Gods made heaven and earth. We need to take this discussion to Geo 28... May I transplant your comments there?

Yes, feel free to move them.

Thanks - I just did =) I opened a most interesting topic, I think. Now, if we can just keep from offending anyone...

The LeyLines should be hopping this week: SPACE WEATHER NEWS: On March 25, 2000, a solar flare erupted near the center of the Sun's disk. It appears that a coronal mass ejection was launched toward Earth. An interplanetary shock wave could pass our planet during the next 24 to 48 hours, triggering moderate geomagnetic activity and aurorae. For more information and daily updates please visit http://www.spaceweather.com .

NASA Science News for April 25, 2000 Stargazers around the globe were treated to an unexpected and rare display of red-colored aurora on April 6-7, 2000, after a vigorous interplanetary shock wave passed by Earth. This story includes a gallery of more than 40 images showing the aurora borealis from Europe and over parts of the United States as far south as Florida. FULL STORY at http://www.spacescience.com/headlines/y2000/ast25apr_1m.htm

Alabama Germany Texas Larger images are available of the above pictured posted above. Brushfires in the Sky Stargazers around the globe were treated to an unexpected and rare display of red-colored aurora on April 6-7, 2000. April 25, 2000 -- Two weeks ago star gazers around the world were outdoors in force. The moon, Jupiter, Saturn and Mars were clustered together in the evening sky on April 6 for a picturesque display just after sunset. With cameras poised to record the spectacle, observers were treated to a dazzling show -- but it wasn't the show they expected. The sky, instead of darkening as the sun sank below the western horizon, turned vivid red, then green and shimmering yellow. It was a rare and unexpected display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. "My intent was to capture the crescent moon along with Saturn, Jupiter and Mars," said Keith Cooley, an amateur astrophotographer in Athens, Alabama. "The aurora flare up was sudden and without warning! It was my first observation ever of such an event." Above: Keith Cooley captured this photo of the planets against a backdrop of reddish-colored Northern Lights from his backyard in Athens Alabama on April 6, 2000, at 8:30 p.m. Central Daylight Time. (Camera: Cannon AE-1; F-stop: 1.8; film: Polaroid 400 ASA; exposure time: 10-20 seconds) The celestial display started around 1630 UT on April 6 when a powerful interplanetary shock wave passed by the Earth. Aurora borealis were observed almost immediately over Asia and Europe. Auroras, or "Northern Lights", are usually confined to high latitudes, but this was the biggest geomagnetic storm in years. By 2000 UT, observers in central Europe were reporting colorful lights in the sky. "Aurora borealis is a rare event in our area, so to see it for the very first time is impressive -- to see a display like [this was] really dazzling!" recounted Ron Baart of Warmenhuizen, Holland. "It was about 8:55 p.m. local time [on April 6] that we saw a pillar of red light in the northern sky ....also green-blue to white features could be seen dancing in the heavens." Left: Juergen Rendtel snapped this photo from Marquardt (near Potsdam), Germany. (camera: f/4, f=20 mm lens; film: Ektapress 1600; exposure time: 15-30 seconds). By the time night fell over North America, the geomagnetic storm was beginning to subside, but not before auroras were spotted in at least 23 states. Reports poured in from as far south as Florida and as far west as Utah. "Most of northwest Colorado was cloud-covered the night of April 6," recalls James Westlake, Professor of Astronomy at Colorado Mountain College in Steamboat Springs, CO, "so I took a group of SKY Club members ... west into Utah. We weren't disappointed. From near Moab, Utah, we watched the pink and green fountains spurt above the northern horizon for several hours around midnight!" In the Big Bend region of Texas, observers at the McDonald Observatory were surprised when the sky suddenly turned red during a star party. "Sometime between 9:30 and 10 p.m. CDT, one of [the Observatory's] Public Affairs staff, Mr. William Wren, was doing a private star party for some folks when he spotted what he at first thought to be a brush fire," wrote Frank Cianciolo, a public affairs officer at the University of Texas. "He quickly realized the truth of the matter, grabbed our digital still camera and popped off a small panoramic showing the aurora and one of our public domes (pictured above)."

Texas

Propagation Forecast Bulletin 17 - April 28, 2000 Sunspots and solar flux were up this week. The average sunspot number was up over 40 points and average solar flux rose over 30 points over the past week. Geomagnetic indices have been mostly quiet, with April 24 the most active day. Last week's bulletin ARLP016 said that the solar flux should be up around 220 this weekend, but conditions are not cooperating. Although activity has been higher this week than last, it is not as high as expected. Solar flux is expected to hover around 175 to 185 until April 8, then dip below 170, and rise to around 200 from May 19 through 28. The planetary A index prediction indicates unsettled conditions for Friday. The A index should stay quiet from this weekend until May 6 and 7, when it may rise to 15. Predicted solar flux for the next five days, Friday through Tuesday is 180, 175, 175, 180 and 180. Sunspot numbers for April 20 through 26 were 179, 211, 226, 252, 222, 229 and 197 with a mean of 216.6. 10.7 cm flux was 180.6, 187.3, 201.8, 206.1, 205.6, 202.5 and 189.9, with a mean of 196.3, and estimated planetary A indices were 14, 10, 7, 8, 21, 6 and 4, with a mean of 10.

these were posted in the Radio Conference but I am moving them here where they are more like what Geomagnetism is all about: _cosmo_ (aa9il) * Mon, May 1, 2000 (22:05) * 22 lines Hi Marcia This is a bit of a stray from the boatanchor thread but another interest of mine is in VLF, ELF, and down. There is an interesting club called the LWCA (Long Wave Club of America) - there is a 'Sounds of Natural Radio' section which deals with sferics, whistlers, dawn chorus, etc. There are some experimenters who monitor the SLF frequencies for signals generated by Mother Earth (earth quakes, the magnetosphere, etc...) This is much more suited for the Geo section where I can move this thread to. The only radio I have that goes down that low is a Watkins Johnson set that tunes down to 6khz. Have never heard anything down there except for Omega navigation. There is also FSK and CW signals from the Navy which uses the low frequencies to transmit to subs. I think there was once an ELF transmitter in Wisconsin who's antenna covered lots of miles. There are man made signals from 1khz down to 1hz no doubt but you do not read about them in the paper... 3's and 8's de secret agent mike Marcia: * Mon, May 1, 2000 (22:38) * 3 lines Oooh! Great stuff, Mike! you can also hear distant lightning as it strikes the ground, with the right frequency terraphones. Love this thread and no one has discussed anything like it in Geo, though that is why I set up Geomagnetism (topic 27) wanna continue there? I'll paste these two posts there and continue. 3's n 8's Marcia, who's delighted...

I should have created GeoPhonics just for Mike. Too slow on the switch tonight. We had a Loran station at the north tip of this island, and for miles, any radio would pick it up. Most obtrusive. Those sub communication arrays do use up huge areas of land and broadcast some where around 7 Hz (or is that MHz?) Have only heard them once, but it is a curious sound. Then there are those who are sure teh Tesla folks are changing the weather using other aesoteric frequencies.

Hi Marcia Ok, finally made it here.... First, regarding the Ley lines - saw an interesting journal out of the UK called "Ley Hunter" which provided serious research towards the study of ley lines. There was mention of a study of the earth mounds in Wisconsin which showed some ley line characteristics. The area where I live was a much traveled area for the ancient tribes (north/south waterways). Of course, there is also Lake Michigan... I am pretty sure there are ley lines running through the geographical area of Enchanted Rock near Fredricksburg Texas as well as the West Texas regions where the rock walls are covered with pictographs. Re the ELF stuff - I will have to find the web pages regarding this but there are groups that study pressure waves, earthquakes, etc - there are super low frequency receivers (actually amplifiers) that integrate signals over long periods of time - the resulting data is then 'spead up' to reveal acoustic tweeks and such. No doubt there are man made signals in the below 1khz range although the data rate would be very slow (hence the long integration time) Not quite sure what kind of valid data could be sent aside from three letter code groups or something. The natural signals are probably alot more fun to listen to. For a good receiver design, do a web search on project INSPIRE which was a Nasa experiment that involved vlf signals sent from the space shuttle - I think the project didnt work but so many people were listening to the receivers during that time that it was the first instance such large amounts of data was collected of natural radio signals. Finally, will have to save a posting on Tesla experiments although I would like to build a high power tesla coil to goof around with. mike aka cosmo AA9IL

Gads! So much good stuff in your post, Mike! Aloha and big thanks. Want to take it to Radio conference and name it.... (your call - !) Tesla probably belongs there too, unless you want one in here called Sounds of the Earth (or whatever) I have heard of The Ley Hunter and there are websites all over the net concerning them. There are also E lines (look back through this topic - there are maps and people from England who posted their experiences with ley lines) Any thoughts on Crop Cicrles? I created Earth Mysteries for the far outside of "scientific" thought. I posted a fractal which will knock your sox off! I am SO delighted to know the various interests which entertain you - they also fascinate me!

http://www.cryptome.org/twa800-emi.htm Special Supplement The Fall of TWA 800: The Possibility of Electromagnetic Interference By Elaine Scarry Elaine Scarry teaches at Harvard University, where she is Cabot Professor of Aesthetics and the General Theory of Value. Her writings include The Body in Pain and articles on war and the social contract. Reconstructing the wreckage of TWA 800 in a Long island hangar, November, 1997. The piles of wire visible in the foreground are only a part of the plane's 150 miles of wiring. For more than a year, the inquiry into the fall of TWA 800 has addressed three questions: whether mechanical trouble can be ruled out, whether a bomb inside the plane can be ruled out. whether a missile or other high-velocity object (such as a meteorite) can be ruled out. But there is a fourth possibility that has been ignored and that needs to be raised in the inquiry. To a civilian, the phrase "electromagnetic interference" may at first sound puzzling, even though every commercial flight begins with the instruction to passengers to turn off during takeoff all computers, headsets, radios, and telephones. The power radiated by these objects is tiny. But their emissions can travel out of the cabin windows to the antennas on the outer body of the plane; therefore the FAA regulation requiring airlines to prohibit passenger use of such objects has remained firmly in place.1 Interference from military equipment can be thousands, even millions, of times as great,2 and can have much more serious consequences for airborne planes. Because ten military planes and ships were in the vicinity of TWA 800 that night, we need to ask the airmen and sailors on the planes and ships to describe with precision the pieces of equipment that were in use. HOW REAL IS THE PROBLEM OF HIGH INTENSITY RADIATED FIELDS? Much more follows - please visit the url and let me know what you think.

Hi, reminded me of a frightening experience my husband I had coming out of Israel in the early 1980's. New plane, new electonics, everything supposed to be perfect but just before crossing over Cyprus everything went off. The pilot himself came out and send nothing to worry about! That was it we all worried. We managed to land in Nicosia Airport to ostensibly refuel. We took off again - things seemed to be going okay until time to land at Gatwick. A friend was watching us land as he had brought our car with him. No lights could be seen on the plane except inner lighting - and it become obvious the pilot was concerned after we landed. They theorised later someone in the plane was using their eletronic equipment!!! It had messed up the electrics in the plane and we were apparently lucky to arrive at our destination so they said! Okay it was a long time ago - but the memory remains - I wonder on reading that article whether or not it was an outside influence too.

P.S. Elaine Scarry has an appropriate name!!!!

Ms Scarry does have an appropriate name. If you ever beome a white-knuckle flier, you have plenty of excuses. That must have been worrisome in the least and frightening at worst!

http://www.sciencenews.org/20000506/fob5.asp Intergalactic magnetism runs deep and wide P. Weiss Hunting for magnetic energy in intergalactic space, researchers have found an unexpected motherlode of it. Both in the gaps between galaxies that are clustered and in the lonelier neighborhoods outside those clusters, magnetic fields are remarkably strong, a scientific team reports. As their hunt widens, the scientists find that they are detecting more extensive fields, says Philipp P. Kronberg of the University of Toronto, leader of the decades-long search. Kronberg reported the results April 29 at an American Physical Society meeting in Long Beach, Calif. This is evidence of a tremendous energy source that astronomers have overlooked, comments theorist Stirling A. Colgate of Los Alamos (N.M.) National Laboratory. At the meeting, he argued that enormous dynamos powered by black holes have cranked up these intergalactic magnetic fields. Other researchers suspect instead that the fields arose during the early history of the universe. The magnetic field observations might help researchers understand the origins of the highest-energy cosmic rays and, ultimately, sort out whether magnetic fields have helped shape the universe. One way that astronomers measure cosmic magnetic field strengths is by detecting how light from more distant quasars rotates its angle of polarization as it travels through a region of interest, say a galaxy or galaxy cluster. The stronger the magnetism there or the denser the gas that the field pervades, the more the field rotates the light's polarization. To estimate the magnetic field strength, researchers compare the polarizations of quasar light that does and doesn't pass through the region, and they use data from an X-ray telescope to determine the density of the region's gas. A decade ago, Kronberg and other coworkers made such a calculation for Earth's largest nearby galaxy cluster�the Coma cluster in the constellation Coma Berenices. This cluster lies about 300 million light-years away. The scientists found to their surprise that the cluster's dilute intergalactic gas had magnetic fields of 2 to 3 microgauss (�G), similar in strength to those in the Milky Way. Because the Coma cluster has some unusual traits, the investigators remained uncertain about whether most clusters have potent magnetic fields. Other research groups have since measured other cluster fields. Some have reported still higher magnetic fields in regions where gravity strongly compresses a cluster's gas. At this week's meeting, Kronberg described extending the Coma cluster experiment to 24 clusters near Earth, purposely avoiding compressed regions. He finds on the average even higher field strengths, about 5 �G, than he did a decade ago. "That tells us there's significant energy in space contained in the [intergalactic] magnetic fields," he says. "I'm surprised, very surprised," says Russell M. Kulsrud of Princeton University, adding that he harbors some doubts that the strengths "are quite as high as [Kronberg] said." But even if the field strengths are a bit smaller, he adds, "they are still . . . very difficult to explain." To investigate the spatial extent of intergalactic fields, the researchers took a different tack. In the presence of a magnetic field, charged particles moving at velocities near the speed of light give off so-called synchrotron radiation. Mapping synchrotron radiation from a patch of sky with a radio telescope indicates both where and how strong magnetic fields are. About a decade ago, Kronberg and his coworkers had picked up synchrotron-radiation signals indicating field strengths outside the Coma cluster of a hundredth to a few tenths of the cluster's field strengths. Those first fields to be detected outside a cluster extended millions of light-years beyond the cluster's bounds. Radio-telescope improvements since then have made it possible for researchers to search for magnetic fields across a much larger patch of sky and to do so at lower frequencies, which are sensitive to weaker radiation, Kronberg says. In a test of that capability, he and his colleagues used the Very Large Array of radio dishes at Socorro, N.M., to look again at the environs of the Coma cluster. The new radio image shows essentially the same pattern of extended fields. However, it also contains patches of fields having roughly equivalent strength much further from Coma and extending into the surrounding population of galaxies. The image "confirms that these magnetic fields really exist in intergalactic space," Kronberg claims. Calling both sets of findings "very intriguing," Eugene N.Parker of the University of Chicago insists they offer no easy answers about the origins and influences of cosmic magnetic fields. Rather, he says, they are "a warning flag" indicating that scientists don't really understand how magnetic fields work.

Greetings all The Longwave Club of America has a web page check out: www.lwca.org The club membership is $18 a year (US) and includes the LowDown magazine. Most excellent Membership address is: Long Wave Club of America 45 Wildflower Road Levittown PA 19057-3209

Thanks, Mike! I'll make that a hotlink... The Longwave Club of America has a web page check out: http://www.lwca.org I expect I shall join, if the magazine is most excellent. High praise, indeed!

Something like telling them how to hear the remnants of The Big Bang should bring in some eager followers of the casual Geo visitors and lurkers. Or is that not what those sounds are thought to be nowadays? You tell'um. They'll be amazed!