Physical Attractiveness

since I have a tendency to not consider myself "attractive" I enjoy body modifications, both public and private, temporary and permanent, on myself and on others...

I cut off my head to increase my height. But it didn't work.

I hate it when that happens!

physical attractiveness is different for whomever is doing the looking. for example, my husband finds me very attractive but no one else does. so who the hell cares? he loves me no matter what and if no one else can, then too bad, so sad for them. they don't know what they're missing!

I think physical attractiveness is something one should be very careful about. One should look after oneself, but not let the way one looks rule your life. Everything that is physical, i.e. on the outside can be lost so easily - in fact, WILL be lost. One second in which you lose control of your car, for example, can take away your face. One second of not concentrating while you cross a road can do the same. And even if one is desperately beautiful, Time will certainly change that about thirty years efore the end of your life - and what have you to live for then? But inner beauty is a different thing, and therefore THAT is what we should concentrate, and really work on, even become obsessed with. Because inner beauty turns into outer beauty, and no-one and nothing can take it away.

so true, inner beauty can't help itself and will shine!

Beautiful people will call this self-deceit, of course...

well, you are a beautiful person, riette, so whatever you say goes!

aw, ray, don't tell her that...

Don't worry, I've got my .... ears .... closed.

By the way, this background is yet another example of inner beauty turning into outer beauty!

i like it, too

The Spring is turning so pretty, I feel like I'm being hit with a valentine's card everytime I log in!

(I think I'm gonna puke...)

Here, have a sickbag - my husband collects them.

not THAT one!!!!!!! (it's special...)

I think about 2% of the world's population is truly attractive to everyone (models, etc.) and another 2% is universally repelling (maybe the aforementioned car accident victims?). But the other 96% could go either way--it just depends on your feelings about them once you get to know them.

Yes, precisely! How do you manage to just say a thing so right, hey Autumn? Do you take lessons for that?

My vast wisdom and experience from attracting and repelling. HA! I am feeling "old" today, as I'm headed for a get-together to kick off my high school reunion weekend (15 years). I'm considering taking a nap this afternoon so I can stay up late tonight--is that pathetic or what? (*rummage, rummage*) I know that I've got some concealer around here somewhere...

Well, have a good time anyway - I'm sure they'll all look worse than you. With being six foot tall you can't possibly look worse than all the short ar$es!

Yeah, I figure having legs up to here will help me hold my own with all those bald guys and pregnant women, ha-ha!! Actually, we're a pretty close-knit class, and a lot of us see each other on a regular basis anyway. There will be very few surprises, I suspect.

Tell us when you come back! You know, all the disgusting details of Ed practically tripping over his nose hair and Cynthia having become a prostitute.

haha!!

LOL! Nobody had a really drastic story to tell. A few have "come out" since high school, a few more been thru rehab, but the most titillating it got was one guy divorced his wife (whom he dated all thru school, so we all know her) and she has since remarried another classmate. A little eyebrow-raising at best. No one even has a really weird career or is doing time. (Unless it's one of those people whose reunion letters were returned by the post office!) Somehow, after a weekend of major partying wit these people, I have emerged unscathed, while everyone around me at the picnic this afternoon looked and felt like hell with a hangover. I still got it! And I didn't even throw up. I did see an old flame, however. That was...interesting.

how much did we "see," and how...interesting did it get? (inquiring minds want to know!)

Now, THAT's the sort of detail we were waiting to hear - I knew it would come at some point! TELL US, Autumn! What's his name, how long did the flame burn, and is he still the hunk you thought him to be? PLUS: how did you react to one another? C'mon, don't be shy now!

dish that dirt, girlfriend!!

So, have you had any surprise encounters with old girlfriends, Wer?

yeah, one over the summer...happened to be the young lady whose name is tattooed on my wrist...

$hit! AND??? Did yer heart burst? Did you talk to her?

what? her name is on your wrist? so how long is the name of lists and do they charge extra for crossing the latest one out?

And what .... ahem ... does Robin think of that? I think I'd cut Chris' wrist off if anything but MY name were tattooed on it.

'twas odd, didn't say anything to one another (which I still feel bad about) at the end of us I was a real ass, and feel that I owe her a huge apology... her name is the only one on me, and I never have the money laying around to get it removed...

ran into another since I've been married, as well, on her last night in Austin before moving away with her boyfriend, that one went okay as she and I were really good friends for a long time...

So, we could just call you the X-magnet from now on!

His name is Jimmy and we were a hot item in 10th grade (that's 15 years old, so how hot could we have been?) I just finished reading this book by one of my favorite novelists, Elizabeth Berg, and here is an excerpt (warning, it's long): "...I sat and read those love letters (from old boyfriends). All of them: sweet, morning-after notes taped onto my bathroom mirror, fountain-penned missives from Tim Stanley...I read things that made me get soft at the center again, that make me stare out the window and sigh...I felt really out of it for hours...I almost called one of my old boyfriends, but I could anticipate what would happen. I would pour out a rush of sentiment--'Now, this doesn't mean anything, but do you remember the incredible lo e we felt for each other, do you remember when we stayed out all night to watch the sun come up...and you kissed me so gently it made me think I could never, never leave you?'...and the now-balding Larry Drever, holding the phone at the desk from which he sells life insurance would say, '...Who is this??'" I cite that passage because that sums up the way I felt when I saw him--remembered the sentimental coming-of-age stuff, and would've liked to reminisce a little. He basically said something like, "Hi! I didn't even recognize you! So, who all came to this reunion?" (looking around the room) I asked him several questions about job/family/old friends, got brief answers, then he said, "Well I'm going to get another beer. Nice seeing you!" That really took the wind out of my sails--not because I expecte him to still care about me, because I surely don't care about him, but because I did expect him to be somewhat interested in me and my life and the way I turned out. I've certainly been curious about him over the years (on a personal level, not a sexual one). I was just left wondering, is it that I'm just such a distant memory that he's forgotten? Or is it a guy thing? (like the book excerpt suggests.) Sorry this is so long and not at all juicy.

I had a crush on a girl in high school and she's now emailing me occasionally. I wonder what it would be like to fly in to St. Louis and take her out on a date? This came out of a high school reunion topic I started in the homepage conference (Bayless High). It would be a kick, that's for sure. Actually there are two women I, uh, lusted after that are single now. Menage a ... nevermind. Does anyone else have these fantasies? Wow, autumn@spring, are you ever on a roll tonight. Lookee... Wed Sep 16 21:32:42 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to porch 42 97 (Why do you keep coming back?) Wed Sep 16 21:41:28 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to philosophy 28 319 (My day's philosophy) Wed Sep 16 21:57:07 1998 wer (KitchenManager) responded to porch 42 98 (Why do you keep coming back?) Wed Sep 16 21:59:44 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to philosophy 31 36 (Physical Attractiveness) Wed Sep 16 22:02:14 1998 slight taste of mafia (KitchenManager) responded to screwed 63 6 (jihad) Wed Sep 16 22:09:32 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to art 19 38 (Baroque and Rococo) Wed Sep 16 22:10:51 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to art 21 70 (The impressionists) Wed Sep 16 22:13:11 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to art 28 26 (Vincent van Gogh) Wed Sep 16 22:15:01 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to art 30 27 (Claude Monet (1840-1926)) Wed Sep 16 22:15:05 1998 wer (KitchenManager) responded to art 19 39 (Baroque and Rococo) Wed Sep 16 22:16:24 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to art 33 34 (Black Art) Wed Sep 16 22:24:14 1998 wer (KitchenManager) responded to politics 12 60 (Clinton Presidency) Wed Sep 16 22:25:48 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to babes 31 28 (Spanish language television babes) Wed Sep 16 22:29:28 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to screwed 18 70 (screwed's first 5-word story) Wed Sep 16 22:31:11 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to screwed 19 257 (Word Association) Wed Sep 16 22:35:28 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to screwed 43 19 (Physical Unattractiveness: who is the ugliest muthafucka here?) Wed Sep 16 22:37:11 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to screwed 49 6 (Ri�tte (note correct spelling) is a junky) Wed Sep 16 22:37:48 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to screwed 51 19 (50 TOPICS!!!!!!!) Wed Sep 16 22:41:49 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to screwed 58 7 (The Screwed Spring for Dummies, 2nd Edition) Wed Sep 16 22:44:58 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to screwed 63 7 (jihad) Wed Sep 16 22:48:26 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to music 1 113 (Allow me to introduce myself) Wed Sep 16 22:51:09 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to music 38 152 (What tunes are you tuned into right now?) Wed Sep 16 22:55:03 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to education 7 11 (putting kids mentors/teachers on the net) Wed Sep 16 22:58:20 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to news 9 85 (Obits) Wed Sep 16 23:00:24 1998 wer (KitchenManager) responded to porch 30 74 (how many people logged into the Spring today?) Wed Sep 16 23:10:05 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to inner 2 29 (yadda, yadda, yadda...) Wed Sep 16 23:11:26 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to inner 4 10 (wer's head) Wed Sep 16 23:13:11 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to movies 11 153 (What movies have you been seeing?) Wed Sep 16 23:14:05 1998 Autumn Moore (autumn) responded to porch 30 75 (how many people logged into the Spring today?) Puff. puff. huff. puff. You've got a lot of energy! wer's kind of a punctuation mark in there, isn't he? Go Autumn. Love it!

That's so sad, Autumn. I don't know what more to say, except that it would have saddened me too. I don't really lust after old boyfriends. My taste before I met Chris was mega bad, you see! Afrikaner men aren't exactly wildly exciting.

can't say that I've ever had a fantasy about one of your high school lusts, Terry...

What about one of your high school classmates?

nope, once high school was over, i was outta there!

Same here! I HATED school! Was a bloody bad student too.

no, i was good in school, just the boys were yuck, they couldn't see me for who i am!

Oh, no question about that! Why do schoolkids try so damned hard to be cool???

Here's the thing. It got me thinking about how, over the years, whenever I've seen an old boyfriend (either someone I casually dated or had an intense relationship with), he has pretended to not see me or seems taken aback when I've greeted him. I don't know if it's just me, or if it's a guy thing that once it's over, they harden their hearts to the memories of those who have inspired and shaped their feelings towards women. In other words, in order to move on and be with other women, they need to erase the memories of those who went before, whereas I think women (ladies, tell me if this is true) tend to draw on both the bitter and the sweet, keep what they can use for memory's sake and consider the rest a lesson in life. On re-reading, I am not very good at communicating this theory!

no no, i understand what you're saying. i think they're wondering the same thing we wonder. does she remember when i? does he remember this? you know? and both avoid the other because it's hard to recognize someone but not know what to say. i've avoided people i know (women and men) because the situation seemed awkward. fortunately, i've not met an ex-boyfriend, yet!

If you did, would you avoid him? I guess enough time has passed since my other relationships that I have no unresolved feelings towards any of them--a genuine interest at most and ambivalence at the least.

i don't know. probably if i could. i mean, i wouldn't go out of my way to be in his way, you know? i'm happy with my choices. but there is the part of me that want's to get into that skimpy outfit and get into their way, see what you missed you big dork! haha!! i think we all have that in us somewhere....

Wow, I guess it's just me then. I wouldn't go stalking them, but I enjoy seeing them and hearing how they turned out, seeing if they're the men they wanted to be when they were 17...or 21...or 35. It's not a "big dork" thing, or "see, I'm prettier than your wife" thing, it's just a good will feeling acknowledging a former connection (especially in the case of the serious relationships, of which there were several). What can I say, I'm easy! I fall in love like (*snap*) that.

haha!! no, i wouldn't stalk them and would have no interest in putting down their wives. just want to make them think a bit. i don't think i would actually strut around half-naked just to get a reaction from an old boyfriend! and of course i would wish them well. i fall in love with the idea of falling in love. (well, except for my husband, who i fell in love with and thought, damn! why'd i go and do that? but i still loves the guy *sweet warm fuzzy feeling*) and he's been my only serious relationship. i was engaged before him but it wasn't for love, more of the idea and fear of being apart.

"I fall in love like (*snap*) that." said Autumn. (yeah, me too...)

I like high school reunions alot. Missed my first one this year. Been to 4 or 5 of 'em. The people I knew better than others...[and now I see what I'm about to say, and it's off from the truth, so I'll start again]: all the people I ran into, well, uh, I had real different reactions to them all---some were complicated in how I couldn't let in any more than I wanted to about them and was feeling an aversion towards certain peccadillos in their personalities as I was perceiving them, however conceitedly or wrongly---others I zoomed in on and couldn't get enough of....so I'm saying that both kinds of reactions happened with those I knew better than others, BUT I never had a relationship with anyone in high school or anyone since. Um, it's somewhat pathetic, except I wouldn't think that would be such a good word to use with myself. It's been an interesting life in one big way: in the way of how I can't figure out what's the matter. So life is definitely a puzzle for me, a mystery....fairly confusing. And that, in its own mild kind of way, whatever that means, is interesting. It's funny to not mind that something major in life has foundered. I don't mind because it's simply so true. I just really like what's true. It interests me, it stays moving, I don't kiss off or laugh off or disregard the existence of that confusion or puzzle or foundering. Sorry if this went way off from what we were all talking about. Did it go way off?

I'm never sure what to think of old boyfriends. A part of me wants to go say hi, and how are they, etc. etc. But the biggest part says, let the past be. The funny thing is that the one guy I did have quite strong feelings for, and who I know had strong feelings for me too, remains very close. I see him every year in Africa, and once a year he comes and visits during the week-long African festival here in Z�rich. He would be the one man I could mope over, yet he never WANTED me to mope, and though we ould not stay together (I wanted to come to Europe, he had to stay in Africa because of his work), he never once held it against me, or tried to forget what happened. And he always saw to it we stayed close, and has become very good friends with Chris too - never once mentioning what happened between us. I very much appreciate that.

sounds like a good man and that he truly loves you. that's a rare thing, girl and you are lucky! i'm not saying that my life has been so golly gee wonderful. in fact, just a few years ago i was ready to walk out on my marriage. even asked my husband to go away or i would. he said i could go if i was that unhappy. pondering it, i knew then that i indeed had a choice, which i really didn't accept before. and since then, we've been working on our marriage and really really talking about things. there isn't a thing about me that he doesn't know and i wouldn't have it any other way.

Your husband probably did the best thing in giving you that choice, neither saying, yes, go, I'm sick of you too, nor forbidding you to leave. He showed that he loved you too much to leave you, or keep you from going somewhere where you thought you'd be happier. Perhaps that is what made you stay?

just knowing that i was my own person is what did it for me. but then i also had to think rationally, you know? i didn't really understand why i was so set on leaving. i think it was because i thought i wasn't trustworthy because of some things i had shared with my husband. i didn't change my mind overnight but agreed that we could try. he understood where i was coming from and i told him i was very confused. see, i had gone to school for a whole month (this was when i came into contracting) and i learned that i was me and felt like me and this was the first time in a long time that i had. but i learned that i can be me even in this marriage and if i'm not then what the heck am i doing here? you know? we talk about why we say things we say and how we react. and he learned to pay attention. this i found out last year that he was listening to what i was saying because he relayed something that had happened at work. one of his friends said he didn't buy his wife presents for christmas (and not because of some religious belief or lack of money, or whatever). my husband told him he'd better pay her some attention or you never know what'll happen. it made me feel good to know that he had been listening and not just letting it go in one ear and out the other. we just committed ourselves to what we've created, i guess. love the guy, can't really imagine life without him (oh, you know, once in a while, i can)

That's so nice. I'm really glad it worked out alright in the end. Chris had the BIG BIG problems before we got married; I was trying to flee my past, he was still not over a woman who had let him down ten years earlier. The first year of marriage was also difficult, because having a baby was such a huge thing to adapt to (I was so young, he was so old!), but then everything just started going great, and now we don't have more than, say, one proper fight a year. The rest of the time we sort of make fu , and are able to talk things out in a playful manner, teasing each other instead of accusing. And because we don't have the big fights often, they make us both so miserable that we talk/shout/accuse/hurt it out there and then, but then it's over and done, the air is clear, and we can make up. But since we've been married we've just both been so happy. Every year when I go home, Mum always says how pretty I look to her - which must mean that she sees how happy I am. The other day I was looking for thi gs to put on the video for the Spring cam, and came across Isa's christening-do. I was almost shocked at how utterly YOUNG Chris looks. When I met him, he was such a serious, brooding, mistrusting, nose-in-his-books, spartian creature. On the video he is energetic, laughing, playing the clown, and so utterly young! He seriously does not even look fourty on the video, and neither does he now. I just find it so comforting that, despite the boredom and routine we can make one another so happy that it ac ually transforms us physically too. Do you know what I mean?

i most certainly do. my husband and i have both changed from the wide-eyed kids we were (and yes, you can see it in our wedding photos) to older and wiser adults. we laugh, play, make fun, tease, fight, make up, cry, everything. it does show because he looks better to me now than he did when we met. his eyes still sparkle and warm up when he looks at me even when he's madder than hell at something i said or did.

Yes, exactly. And on the whole I never want to be single again - I feel so much more 'whole' than I did when I was young.

I want a relationship like that!!!

Then wipe off the make-up, make yourself as ugly as possible (if that's possible in your case), and you'll know the guy who falls in love with you is in love with your looks AND you.

i want to be riette's love monkey, and i we've never met! Current weight loss report: as of my weight watchers weigh-in on monday, i have lost 18.5 lbs!!!!

But you are my monkey, love... WOW! You must send a photo when you're finished at weight watchers, will you, Ray?

great work, Ray!

cool beans, ray!! keep it up. have they told you about plateauing out? you know, when you stay the same weight for a little while? it's important that you not give up then. it means your body has gotten used to what you're doing. just try to do a little bit more until you get to where you need to be. you're doing great!!!!!

i was in WW before and gave up for that very reason, wolfie, i hit a wall. my intention now is to give my weight loss efforts at least two years before i call it quits. also i am starting to exercise a lot more than i did before, mostly because my damaged back and knees do not bother me as much as they used to!

I had some great news today. I have a friend, called Phil, who is one of the nicest people I know. He's such a great bloke that some times I just can't even find words for it - you know the kind of person? :) Problem is that Phil is seriously overweight, in need of a good shave and a decent haircut. Not that this makes any difference to my relationship with him, but it makes it difficult for him to form other relationships, especially with women. Basically, he can't - a massive lack of confidence, and, I guess, a lack of desirability, sad though that is. The great news is that Phil has agreed, in principle, to come down to London after we both graduate next summer and get a job with me in London. Which means that firstly he'll be in the City, with *loads* of people (rather than in the tiny village that he lives in now) and that I can help him to get some of that weight off and just invite him out places! Phil so deserves to meet great women, and the mere fact that he's not George Clooney wouldn't, in a perfect world, get in the way. But unfortunately, this ain't a perfect world. Hopefully, though, everything will work out better! I am happy :)) Today has been a good day :)

that post of yours really made me feel good too, mike. all the way over here in texas. if you and phil are really close, then you can just come out and tell him all of this and why you feel it is important. he needs to realize that he alone holds the key to his own happiness. he is extremely, extremely, extremely lucky to have a friend like you who cares enough about him to help him with that. i wish i had a friend like that.

hehehe....and there was me thinking that your post would say "You shouldn't be trying to run his life!" :-) i can't wait - i'm so excited. and it'll help pay the mortgage....:))

well, no, don't try to run his life. ultimately he is the one who has to decide what he wants. i am just saying that IMHO a good friend is one who thinks ahead to what might make you happy, and helps you acheive that goal if you want, and still loves you even if you don't want to. he is the *only* person who holds the key to his own happiness, but having someone who really cares makes the road to happiness much easier.

Oh, come on, Ray! You speak as if you're like this poor bloke, and you're not!!! You weren't really fat, and CERTAINLY not unattractive! �big hug� Mike, it is great that this man is going to get into a city, I think. It will be a help, because he won't stand out anymore. In a big city one sees fat, thin, ugly, beautiful, cripple, mad people every day - one becomes as the other. This could only be helpful to him. He won't be the 'poor fat, unshaven bloke' anymore. And when that and a good friend like you, help him gain confidence, he'll have the confidence to lose weight for himself, and look after himself, and hopefully find a person who loves im the way he is.

yeah...you know the main thing that worries me? the fact that he's so unhealthy at the moment he's probably got a shortened life span. what a waste that would be. bring on Weight Watchers...! I'll even go to, even though I'm skinny as a rake!

Oh, I'm sure his life span will grow as his happiness grows! Just get him into the city!

uh... late again, as usual! Congrats Ray!!! I adore meeting up with people from my past, boyfriend or not! After a few long termish, intimate relationships and inevitable heart wrenching breakups, I find communication impossible but given a year or two... what fun to see and talk and think about what was and what is now. Always makes me feel so... evolved!! *laugh* Guess that means my taste in the beginning wasn't so great! I fall in 'love' quickly but 'comfortability' takes eons.

Damn. I forgot the blasted topic! pretty people... yeah... they're pretty. Really gorgeous people kinda make me nervous. I like quirks like crooked noses or lopsided ears or three eyeballs... *smile* Physical attractiveness is important in its own way... Autumn called it though... 96% of the population could go either way!

three eyes is good - re: the claw is my master :)

don't insult Terry like that! Nice to hear your voice, girl!

La la la laaaaa la la laaaaa La la la LAAAAA la la laaaaa! (just exercising my voice for Ree-head!)

Ouch! Seriously, we should form a pop group, Stacey! We could call ourselves, 'The Raving Screamers'�! I can only imagine what you must sound like, I know what I sound like - together we'd make the Cranberrys squirm! Come back more often, will you?

I'm with Riette on you coming back more often, Stacey.

unless something's happened recently, she doesn't have access to one at school, and there's been that electricity problem at the house which could only be corrected by having more money. With all that said, I miss you terribly, myself, Stace...

thanks guys... miss you too. WER's right but it's more the job keeping me away. I'm still technically working two but one has just become outta hand stressful... can't sleep, can't smile, can't rationalize *grin*, can't get rid of my damn headache that seems to have lasted for days and days now... Mr. B is not amused by all of this either which in turn makes me extra miserable... (whine whine whine) Perhaps I should go back to singing?!?!

No, no, the whining will do just fine!!! Sorry you're having such a stressful time, Stacey.

Yeah, your whining sounds like a kind of downtrodden singing, Stace. A powerful blues. It has real attraction. Dunno what's wrong with B. What's the stress with the job? Too stressful to talk about? I have this dumb job interview tomorrow. And somethin' dinky like that stresses me. I keep imagining that I'll lose control of my mouth. Tongue will start drooping out....then some burping'll start up, then some drool. My neck will get too heavy, and this head will kinda slam down on my chest. Pop back up. My eyes will be rolled up so high, she'll only see the whites. Then blam, my head'll fall back down. And I'll get hives....start scratching uncontrollably. She'll stand up and leave me there tossing and turnin' on the floor, and she'll say, as she goes out the door: "This is really physically unattractive."

At least you have to have all those things happen to you before somebody calls you physically unattractive. Some of us just LOOK the part naturally.

*laugh* Thanks Jim for the grins! Yep. Downtrodden singing. Now I KNOW just how miserable I must've sounded! Best of luck on the interview tomorrow (today!) let me know how it goes! Is this the company up in Colorado that is going to relocate you to just down the block and around the corner? You'll be right next to that Thai restaurant I LOVE to frequent!

hope the interview has gone/goes OK! Riette, if you don't stop putting you down you'll have all of the Spring men pinning you down and doing unspeakable things when we visit next year ;-) *wicked grin*

Promises, promises! Blame it on a sick sense of humour. It amuses me to put that bitch down!

Interview with the Department of Criminal Justice: Interviewer notices I have clothes on. That gets me into the room with her and one other person (who's silent the whole time). Interviewer is stiff and formal. There are 4 windows to my left and their right---all I wanna do now is look out them. Interviewer stiffly reads from a sheet of paper, some words about how the interview will proceed. She finishes that part, looks up at me and asks if that is satisfactory. I wanna cry. I refrain. I don't say, "Yeah, that's fine---does it get better?" I am polite, though my stomach and all my connective tissue are linking up with each other and gain commitment among themselves to incur a body migraine that will harmonize progressively into internal hemorrhaging. She says she has 9 questions for me and begins reading the first one. I'm having flashbacks to when I was 9 years old and Mom was getting the popcorn ready into brown bags, rounding me and my 3 sisters up and Dad, so we could go out to the stationwagon and then head for a drive-in and see, like, maybe 3 movies or 2, as the sun was going down. I catch enough of the first question to answer it vaguely. At this point I can feel devas in the room who are communicating eagerly with impish nymphs who know me and my personal energy vortexes. I can hear or sense or feel the nymphs' delight as they tell me what a thrill it is to be in this situation so they can see if they can get me to blank out during a question. I ask the interviewer if she could repeat the second question. She asks me what kind of software I have used. I say, "WordPerfect, Paradox, and Group something, and another called: MusicExpress, I think." I couldn't remember that it was GroupWise. And there's this software called SupportMagic, which I somehow managed to remember as "MusicExpress", which they duly jotted down with quizzical looks. Another slip-up I made was when I said "to get a secondhand opinion" instead of "to get a second opinion". But I just realized, as the thing went on, that I'm not cut out for that world---they have a seriousness I can't relate to. It's a place where things meet and cross along lines that contain depersonalized regimens. Rules against true spontaneity. Work over health and harmony. People looking like forced people in the workforce. People who need to pay bills and buy stuff and will go into this automatic automaton work world to get the money they want. Stress. And if they gave me the job, I'd take it. I'd be them. Have been before, and will be again. But at least I'd answer the phones (switchboard/receptionist job). I like how all I give to these kind of organizations is just my voice. I can be friendly and connect people, and not have anything to do with the goings-on and the decision-making. Be in it and not of it. My voice can be people-oriented, and I can just sound normal and sound like me. That's all I want....to sound the sound of the living. I was such a nervous wreck, I just drove home and stayed lying down for the next I dunno 5 hours....and I was feeling this pain inside that really needed to be attended to---if I hadn't given it some heed, it woulda maybe become a headache or tension against the body. That pain felt physical, very locatable, in my upper torso. It went away as I spent time with it---it was psychological/physical, and became muted. Externally, the interview probably went alright, y'know, basically, over all. Internally, it wasn't easy at all to recover from. But I more/less did. It's a weird joke, it's a weird sad joke on human viability. I felt like I perjured myself, like a living lie. I was bearing false witness through a whole interview was what I was. That's what I was, on the inside. Boy, that hurt. Interviews! I wish I coulda learned how to live, sometime way earlier in life. So I wouldn't have ever had to have one (an interview). When I got outside the door, and through another door, I was alone with the other person who was in the interview room and was the one who didn't say anything.....and I said "so long" to her. She said, "Jim, your voice sounds so forlorn. It made me think of how we have another locale you may be interested in." I said, "Really? I didn't know. Where is this other locale?" She looks at this colorful food menu, then looks back up at me, "Um, it's near Denver, very near Denver. Would you be interested in that? It's a small front operation that works out of a Thai Restaurant. I ate there once, myself, and the food tasted better than six, I mean sex, I mean having sex six different times all at once. You would be working the dishwashing machine, and we can stick a phone on the side of it so you can take a few calls every hour and talk the callers into feeling hungry. I really would consider it if I were you. I'd consider it for myself if I could work for that little money." "I'm very interested. I could do that. It would work out much better for me. Sounds much less suicidal inducing. All the food I can eat for free?" "Oh yes. And a chance to move up in 6 months to the second floor dishwashing machine." "Hey, I'll take it. If you can pull this off, I'll take it." "Sure. I think I can have everything worked out and ready to go by Monday. Call you then. See ya, Jim." "Bye, Leslie."

oh goodie! You can try but you shall not be able to succeed in making yourself sick on Phad Thai Woon Sen with shrimp and tofu! It's just too damn good. And you'll be right across the street, because Leslie was probably just a little confused when she said 'Denver' as she really meant Littleton which is close enough to Denver to be Denver but far away enough that you don't have to live in the downtown itself which is far less nice than downtown Austin if simply because the size is out of proportion with my comfortab lity zone! Oh yeah!

sorry the interview was stressful... perhaps there would be a way to apply 'online', that would certainly suit you better!

And after that interview, if you do get the job - will you take it?

or would you just pack up Jah and move to Denver for the hell of it?

I dunno which parent she gets it from, but that Tahja is pretty feakin' smart. Like how did she even have my number? It was around Thursday when I get this call, and answer it, and hear this: "eeow waa Jah aaeeowe" I'm goin' whaaaat? Then I think quick, for a change, and say: "Excuse me, Ma'am, could you hold for a second?" I heard a "uhowww", so I go to this bookmark: http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate? ---and find out that "eeow waa Jah aaeeowe" means: "could I please speak to Jah?" ---so I get back on the phone and say: "uuwee, iaa Jah" [that means, "sure, here's Jah"] I'd grabbed Jah away from his food bowl by then and brought him to the phone.....I held the receiver to his ear. And soon, in a little while, he's talking into it. Him and Tahja are goin' at it for like over 30 minutes, and boy does my arm know it, so I lay the receiver down on the table, and let Jah figure it out. No problem---he lies on his back when he's listening (most of the time----I think Tahja has a lot on her mind), and then he moves over to the mouthpiece when he has something to say. The p or owners of Tahja, though---I'd hate to be them when they see their next phone bill. I'm glad Jah doesn't have that much on the ball--- like the brain, T.---so I won't have to worry about him making sure I'm gone before he calls T. or anyone else. One thing I am worried about is that somehow Tahja might convince Jah of different ways that he could try to get to Littleton on his own. But then he'll find out what it's like to live outside all the time, plus doesn't Tahja realize that Jah would also find out about Rafikki? Right now he doesn't know about her. He thinks Tahja lives alone with her owners (the translator helped me with the conversation me and Jah had about that). There would be the food problem, too. I really don't think he could make it all the way there, but I can't rule out anything that Tahja might have up her sleeve.... her fur. But I'd have to take the job here if they offer it. Need a State job so I can get 10 more years in and not have to work anymore, since I've got 15 down the drain already with the State. It would be super-tense at first. And I would count on whatever I have in me to come on through and be informal and friendly and deft and effective with my voice on the phone, as a switchboard operator/receptionist. A friend of mine once told me she really liked how I sound when I answer the phone at work (meaning I sound different once that's over with and I know who I'm talking to and why)---and I said, "yeah, I like to put my best foot forward on the job." Been unemployed since I resigned back in May (team I was on had a change in team leaders, and the new one was abusive, so I walked), and my money's gonna run out about the second week into November---so the panic button is going off inside, but I'm still being pathologically passive about reacting to it, and I haven't applied much when I could have---so yeah, I'd take that job (it would at least knock out the need for going through anymore interviews, plus it would let me feed my face in November). Probably I'll have to get something for a while with some temp service, work some temp job for a while, till some State job finally comes my way. What really interests me in all this is the tension. Why do I feel tense? I think it's me, as much as I might say it's the formal, weighed down professional atmosphere of the workplace environment. So it's just a lifelong quest to find a way to break through my tendency to crumble emotionally. I'm immature emotionally and I self-consciously, very nervously cringe and flinch and cower at stuff that I judge as being either too much for me (a person who's too powerful in personality or position) or too off-putting. That job would give me lotsa chances to try to learn about this problem I want to begin to make some headway on, and mature emotionally, if only a tiny little bit---maybe that would make a big difference to me, to my life. And I want my voice to carry. I want it to convey a weightless, sparkling touch of unexpected friendly stillness and thereness for the people I'm transferring and connecting. I like tones, all the different ones that are available, the personal ones, the personal and limbered up rhythms that we can hear in all these different voices we have as all these different people that we are. It's fun to do some of those rhythms, the ones that aren't trying to be a ything, cuz they just happen, and no one can stop 'em from glancing sideways into the heart, by surprise, like when you first see the blue in the distant hills, that suddenness, or the ancient smell of some long- stemmed weeds, oy!.....it's very tender the way it unexpectedly lengthens you and reaches through you, or a boisterous stream making a great deal of noise while you are the only one there, how quietly it comes as you draw nearer, so gently that you're not aware of it, and then it just explodes wi h an immense massive dignity that brings its own innocence....that innocence is what holds you. I would like to hear that in a voice, it would sound the sound of the living.....and that could be my goal, assignment, task, project, whatever they want to call those things they do at work that they think are so important or that they think are the whole reason for their being there---their productivity. An amazing thing is to see a horridly physically unattractive person who has something very innocent and free going on inside them. An amazing thing is to see the shift---see the shift take place on a physical level as well as underneath, of unattractive to attractive. And then to maybe turn a little ways and see a little ways over there another person who could be a super-model or something, and to see that she or he also has something very innocent and free going on inside them.....and see the shift ust not happen, of attractive to unattractive, beneath and even on the surface (we might not even mind if the face/body looks too symmetrical---or whatever we don't like about physical beauty that is too alluring or ideal). It's possible. It's happened. Might be extremely rare, but...........

I hope you get the job then, Jim - even though you don't sound thrilled with your kind of work. With your writing skills, why don't you use your weekends or evenings to pen a book? You have such incredible things to say - why don't you share it, and profit from a talent that is very real, very explorable, and which obviously gives you pleasure?

that darned cat!

Are you sure it's a cat, and not an alien??

no joke! at first, i thought it was the kiddo's.....

Is it just me, or have you been somewhat quiet the past two days or so??

it has actually been pretty quiet overall here, i think.

i have been quiet! been so busy at work with messed up shifts right now....anyway, hopefully will get more time to play at the computer! have been working on my homepage adding the appropriate spring links to different pages, making a poetry webring and trying to find graphics for that (which i haven't yet) would really like to find a full moon with a wolf howling in the foreground-where the wolf is superimposed upon the moon. it would be a black background with either a white or harvest colored moon (harvest is yellow to orange). i don't know how to do it myself so if you guys find something like that, let me know!! and yes, it's been very quiet over here, not just me.....

Yes, I know. I'm probably guilty too. I feel pretty lethargic at the moment - approaching-winter-blues, I think.

do you think emotional states such as 'the blues' affect physical attractivenss ? Like if you're down, do you find fewer people attractive, including yourself?

yes, indeed. if you mean "depression" by "the blues."" one of the symptoms of depression is an inability to experience pleasure ("anhedonia"). it is not too much of a stretch to hypothesize that either your perception of your attractiveness or of others is affected by depression, but i know of no studies off the top of my head that have looked at that. i know that in my own experience that when i have been depressed that my perception of my attractiveness plummets, probably because of the link in my case between depression and self-esteem.

i think most people experiencing the blues at any level loses a bit of their self-esteem and perception of their body image. others pick up on our emotions and perhaps are affected by it as to their perception of us. for example, when you're down, people often ask if you're alright (perhaps not total strangers). also, when we are down, we don't care for ourselves the way we ought to. it has been studied that people who feel down dress in drab colors. so they suggest that to make yourself feel better, to dress in bright colors. others will pick up on that and respond accordingly.

that is very, very true. dressing down in crab colors, not cleaning up, etc., leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy of unattractiveness, thuc completing a vicious, horrible circle. having an attitude change and forcing yourself to go thru the motions of happiness can do a lot to mitigate a depressive spell. it is nice if you have friends that ask if you are ok. but one of the things i learned about depression is that no one cares if you are depressed. over the years i learned to hide it or at least to express it in different ways, such as various self-destructive behaviors.

my post above should have read "drab colors" not "crab colors" tho i guess crabs are kind of drab looking.

depends on who's looking at them. most people have a fear of depression because they don't understand it. they think that depression is just a 90's expression for the blah's and the sufferer should be able to snap out of it. everyone has their own healing time and once you get into a depression, you have to let it run it's course. what i mean by that is to accept the fact that you are depressed instead of running from it. you know what i mean? allow yourself to feel blah and you'll be surprised how fast it passes. i know how hard it is first hand. and so other's aren't alarmed- destructive behavior is not just suicidal thoughts or burning your arm with cigarettes (i knew a guy who did that). it can be anything from eating too much, sleeping too much, putting yourself down, etc. etc. i think that what made my panic much worse to deal with was that i was afraid of it and thought it meant i was crazy. so i put thoughts into my own head from the power of suggestion- just from the questions the doctor would ask trying to find an answer for my panic. over time, i learned that my panic was a result of years and years of anger. i was so angry and this frightened me because my mind was full of "supposed to haves". you know--i'm not supposed to feel this way...but i learned that it's alright to feel even the darkest things-it's what you do with it--i'm not condoning those things, but, afterall, we are human. i can sit here all day and talk about why we become depressed (it's all over the t.v. and stuff) but it's not something to blame on someone else. it's a way we have learned to protect ourselves from whatever was causing us pain. but we are still responsible for our own actions. so do i blame my parents for causing me to have panic? no. did they contribute? sure, but i don't blame them nor do i blame myself. no one can make you feel a certain way. you are the one in charge of yourself. this is what makes us human beings and not human doings. i believe i've been through hell and back and God is the one who kept me from burning up. my version of hell may be different from yours but each of us have our limits on what we can deal with. God is what got me through the years of abuse and then the dark aftermath of dealing with it head-on. But i'll tell you what, i'm glad i made it through and learned so maybe someone else can too. (sorry for preaching). *hugs*

*beamz* darlin'

I think depression leads to chemical imbalances in the brain after the the depression has been going on for a while. I think the chemical imbalance can be re-balanced without the drug, not that that is the best way to go about it. These are just thoughts I'm having about it. They're not based on anything. So what about dealing with the depression directly, through the mind? I like the idea of doing that without using any positive thoughts or images. In depression, don't the negative thoughts gain strength and form a blockage, a pattern, a solidified circuit? Take the thought of considering oneself a social retard. That can become hardened into a recurring patronage that we pay to ourselves, with it's own accompanying mental penalty or painful feelings of woundedness and hurt. It can become a second sight, an attitude that we usually look through and consider normal for us. It's us. So, what if we become very aware that that's what's going on. That that's the dynamic at work. Then what? Then it's a matter of staying power. Can we stay with the pain while the pain acts on us. Can we stay with it while we get to know it---while we get to know what happens when---what thoughts flow from which attitudes and from which moments in the day, from which situations. Can we develop a listening sensitivity that has the quickness that's as quick as the attitudes are? Are we as quick as our attitudes? Do we feel them happen when they shift and foreshadow? How close are we getting to the real messiness of it? How much vigor and certainty and conceit it has. How difficult it is to watch each maneuver. Attending to these maneuvers brings about something that is what we experience all too rarely in our lives. It deepens our awareness into the precursors of our attitudes and habits. We allow ourselves, through this deepening attention, to make contact with the energies in life that have to do with health and change and balance. These are just thoughts I'm having, along with everyone else's thoughts. Where do our thoughts go next? As the conversation turns.

Certain depressions for me are situational. And when I remove myself from the situation (or even look at it differently) I return from the black hole through which I felt I was sucked. Often times I return feeling refreshed, renewed and with a much brighter perspective on life in general but especially my life. But some people are unable to climb out of a depression by ridding themselves of a particular problem. And then they sink deeper. I believe a chemical imbalance can certainly take place during those times and what was once a simple case of the blues can metastisize into a clinical depression. Medication doesn't work for everyone but I also believe that, in some cases, it is quite nearly the placebo effect. If we are told by someone we trust that if we swallow a pill twice a day and it will make us feel be ter, sometimes the power of the mind can truly cause that to happen. I am certainly one of those people who benefits from the placebo effect. When I take vitamins, I feel healthier, when I don't I lapse into a borderline hypochondriac state. Drinking orange juice and echinecea makes the world right for me and I really think 75% of it is in my mind! The mind is so powerful. In a positive way and of course in a negative way. There are those whose depression seems to seep into them from no identifiable source. Or at least no source that the general populus views as deserving of such a depression. That is the power of the mind. I've never been on antidepressants but I've watched others take them religiously and swear by them. I don't believe pills have more power over a body than the mind but they seem to provide a catalyst for getting back on track that I find very interesting. Perhaps they do jump start a chemical reaction in the brain. Perhaps they do not. Either way SOMETHING takes place that inevitably leads to finding the light at the end of a long dark tunnel.

And as a side note. I don't believe I can ever remain centered continuously. Falling off track, going deep and rummaging around in the inside helps remember what 'balanced' is. Anyone else feel like they have to lose touch with their ki occasionally to remember where it is?

(does anyone else feel like I am babbling uncontrolably?)

some medication is overused (i.e., prozac) as the cure-all for your worries. this is harmful to the many who benefit from just having someone to talk to and knowing they're not alone. they even prescribe it to kids who get down. it seems like all anyone wants to do is medicate and suppress. that's what i like about my meds. i still feel everything. i still cry, get down, panic. but the episodes are shorter and don't occur as often. i don't think that everyone has a chemical imbalance but for those that do, meds is what helps replace the chemical that is no longer being used. it's very complicated, to me. the thing that gives everyone a skewed perception is that nowadays, chemical imbalances are blamed for everything. kinda like if you kill someone while PMSing, it's ok. just like everything else, it gets genericized--like mickey mouse and dolphins and angels. everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon of the trends going on in their time--i.e., alternative lifestyles. it seems people use these trends as an excuse. i don't think anyone would tell a diabetic that their insulin is a placebo. not jumping on you stacey. i think that you brought up a valid point as to the general populace. talking about it helps to bring understanding to something that once was hush-hush. (and i know this goes for alternative lifestyles).

Is there a difference between wanting to feel better and wanting to understand how we got depressed? Maybe if we try to feel better and succeed, we leave ourselves more open to getting depressed again. Whereas if we understand how depression operates, we learn how to leave ourselves much less susceptible to being depressed, perhaps? But understanding something like depression probably couldn't happen through any strategy or tactic, I'm guessing (cuz I sure don't know). Noticing how it happens is very simple because it just means doing one simple thing---noticing. And noticing is awkward and formidable and challenging. It's simple and extraordinarily difficult. The mind wants to believe, because that's so satisfying. It wants to believe in positive and it will believe in negative. It will believe in believing or believe in disbelieving. Both are believing, and they satisfy. But both are unhealthy because they're not factual. Their purpose is to satisfy.....satisfy the mind, what the mind thinks it wants. But to be factual, or psychologically healthy, is to be factual. Which means to notice what's there, what's taking place, actuality. So what does the mind do during depression? That would be the place to start. At the beginning. And keeping it simple. Because it's going to tough enough as it is, even when we keep it as simple as it is. That's only, of course, if a person chooses to go at it from this approach---which could be way wrong. If someone wanted to go at it from this approach, they could do it a zillion ways, maybe, I dunno, but this is the way that makes the most sense to me. But not for severe depression. Severe anything is a different story. A person needs to have enough bearing, enough stability and coherence to begin to be simple, and to notice what's actually taking place behind all the behavior and moodswings and despondency. It takes a great deal of clarity with sharp quickness, that whole kind of vital discerning energy. One needs to be somewhat limpid and soft and looking. There needs to be some tenderness and affection for what one is going through. We need to relate to ourselves and our feelings. We need to really be with them and pay close attention. Listen with a quiet listening that carries and glides and soars on in to the heart of our deepest concerns. Just exactly how do those deeper concerns really operate and maneuver around? I'm thinking that there is alotta powerplay going on, alotta forcing going on. And it's hit a wall. And then denial. It becomes quite demanding, this whole conflict, this whole inner conflict. Lotsa pride. Lotsa woundedness. Lotsa irrational reactions that are happening so far beneath our normal level of awareness, that we don't know the extent of it. We can't feel it cleanly and clearly.....we don't know where it really is. We would rather either feel better or get our way or have things be different. We don't bother with this subsurface stuff except in a worrying, useless kinda way. We don't understand, we don't know about understanding. So we don't understand where any of this is really going on and what actual specifics are. To learn about this is to learn what the mind is. The mind may just allow itself to be revealed if there is inquiry. It may be that the mind wants to understand itself. It may be that depression wants to be understood so it can relax into transformation. Change, health, balance. What do you say? What do you think about this? Let's examine it further together..... It could curve into and crest around physical attractiveness and all sorts of personal goods. Once again, I have no idea what I'm talking about, and it's all based on intangibles, impressionable impressions, splashing sounds and a wash of grazing light that the cows left behind in the pasture this afternoon.

Interesting question though... "difference between wanting to feel better and wanting to understand how we got depressed" I dunno. Both are pretty desperate quests involving much emotion and anxiety at times. Ideally after I discovered some of the 'triggers' to depression for me, I'd never fall victim to them again. But I do. I believe the mind can overcome diseases of the body and physiological boundries but the mind overcoming itself, healing itself, preventing itself from going astray... I dunno. (babbling again, to be sure!)

no you're not, stacey--interesting theories....i think the mind is more powerful than what anyone has ever imagined. to think of all the intricacies it's capable of. of course the mind can heal itself, but will we let it? the brain is a powerful organ and it has the ability to heal, but it cannot unless the mind tells it to. you know what i mean? you have to let go of your fear, have to believe....i don't know too much about the idiosyncracies (spelling???) of the mind and brain so i, too, appear to be babbling!

wolf, I guess that makes us babble-licious --- a higher form of physical attractiveness by anyone's standards!

I would have to concur on the whole babble-licious thingy...

yup!

LOL!!

Sonja here: What does that mean?

Me again. Does one say goodnight or goodbye or something when one goes away again? I'm going now - Ri�tte and I are going to drop water bombs tonight....that ought to cheer her up.

LOL means laughing out loud (i used to think it meant loser on line). sometimes we say bye, but mostly, we just take off! y'all have fun.....

the nice thing about this form of communication is that is it free of the constraints of time. it is just one long conversation after another. so unless you plan on being away for a long time (and worrying some of us half to death!) then there is no need to say ciao.

Sonja here: Got it. I'll spank her for you. But in her defence I must say that she doesn't usually do this. I did, however make her promise to come later today - hopefully she will explain herself to you all.

she does not have to explain herself unless she wants to. i was worried because she did not show up and now i am worried about her current state of depression. i just want her to realize that a lot of people over here care about her and are standing by to help.

I think we've all grown to love her.

foolishly

Defenitely! I'll just stop loving you now, okay? Did you see your background is contagious?

no, why?

Are you being sarcastic with me, baby girl?? Or are you really too stooopid to notice that this is your background?

This is NOT my background!

GIRL, I swear to God, every time I log in here, this conference has your art background.

Really? That's strange. You really ARE bewitching my computer.

We have a background issue here, and I can't even see it cause I'm telnetting in right now. Exactly what does this background have to induces such contentiousness?

WELL: It seems that when I log in, Philosophy has the same background as Ri�tte's art conference, and when Ri�tte logs in, it has another background. Interesting, isn't it?

And Terry, I'm in both backgrounds doing things like balcony diving and moshing and mushing (with my young huskies in northern Canada)---there's some really good animation going on here, I mean you can really tell it's me, and I sound like me even when I do

Wait a sec....let me fetch my 3-D glasses. WOW!

wowie zowie you are really groovy (got my 3-D glasses on, too, and there you are, now I can make you out---you're riding a cab through the Australian outback...of course that's Samuel Jackson, the cabbie, driving)

LOL!

Yes or no question: Do you find others more attractive with 3-D glasses on?

Qualification to aforementioned Yes or no question: ... that is when the other person is wearing 3-D glasses.

Only when I'm looking in an electron microscope and that person is standing in the background, behind and slightly to the left of a friendly virus. It's pretty exciting though when we both take off our 3-D glasses, then put 'em back on, in that situation.

that was part of the whole goofy thing, Terry... some confs sometimes use other confs rc files... sometimes they even use commented-out lines of html, as well...

I like looking at myself in the mirror with 3-D glasses on. I've always wanted to be green.

i think we all look like dorks but that's what makes it so much fun. i don't think anyone's feelings are going to be hurt because someone laughs when you wear 3d glasses. i, on the other hand, look perfectly lovely in them (or so i've been told by others wearing them)

You do! *oink oink*

what can i say *heehee*

I didn't get one single YES or NO. I only got conditional statements. C'mon lay it out there guys!

Honestly, when I put on 3-d glasses, everybody looks good. That is because I can see about 5 feet without my prescription glasses and then everything goes fuzzy. One fuzzy blob looks just as good as another.

But if I say yes or no, I feel like I'm giving into an over-generalization, and guess what---I'm prejudiced against over-generalizing. Because over-generalizing seems to come out of a prejudice. Which is like saying I'm prejudiced against prejudice. Which seems like I'm saying I'm prejudiced against myself..... since it means that I'm being prejudiced, and since I'm saying that prejudice is what I'm prejudiced against. Self-contradiction there. Which feels like an inner conflict. It would be one of many (inner conflicts). Therefore, Stacey, to answer your question: No, people don't look more attractive when they put 3-D glasses on. That's pretty non-conditional and laid out there. Ow. That really hurt. Can I change my answer now? Can I change the question?

Let the answer stand. Change the question...

Definitely, let's play Jeopardy!!

I'll take Pretentious Food for a thousand, Alex!

*laugh* gotta hate is when you're prejudice against yourself! and gotta love it when the remainder of the peanut gallery changes the subject so efficiently... all of this makes you all very physically attractive in a text based platform!

you always say the sexiest things...*blush*

Yes...�blush�.

this does make for an interesting place to be with everyone blushing different colors.

Yeah! I blush in blue on the net - blue's my favourite colour, so it's not quite such a pain when it happens here.

Red is my favorite color, a real coincidence, considering that my birthstone is a ruby. anyway I like the color combination of electric blue and black. I also like red and black.

Yes, I like those too. I like pure, bright colours, no pastels, because when you put them all together, it's like looking into a caleidoscope.

I agree, With the exception of black, and white, which I use to set the colors off. I like really vibrant colors, like the florescent shades of pink, orange, green, purple, blue and of course, I like just about any shade of red

Exactly. Oh, DAMN! Please don't tell me you're an artist - I like you too much already.

check it out! my attempt to motivate myself not to overeat during the upcoming holidays! http://www.spring.net/~ratthing/fatray.htm

whatever it takes, Ray! and, good luck... if it helps, you may e-mail all leftovers to me at kitchen_manager@juno.com

WOW, Ray!!! It really is amazing - and you know I don't do the flattering thing. You look totally different! MEGA ATTRACTIVE too!

thanks! I in dallas right now at my father in law's home, typing this on his WebTV! i hope all of you have had a wonderful thanksgiving as i have.

Yes, so do I. We don't celebrate thanksgiving over here - the Swiss are allergic to holidays - but I hope you all had a great time.