The Couch 2: Electric Bugaloo

Ooh, it's cold in here!

man, and I was hoping somebody had moved the new couch into it's own topic... I needed the peace and quiet and comfort of the old one... especially if everyone else was in here breaking in the new one!!!!!

We were just making it more homely. Perhaps we can get a bunk couch next.

and the obvious question is: Can I be on top?

Much as I hate it, I'd have to say yes - I'm scared of heights, and I don't want to be pushed off at any point!

at least, then, I'll have someplace nice to land when I inevitably get booted out on my arse...

Ha-ha! We'll be sitting arse to arse, drinking champaigne and watching as the others fly past!

eating strawberries and chocolate the whole while. who did the decorating in here? good thing i picked up a leather, neutral couch. we could use another, but it wouldn't be as cozy, huh?

depends on the activity, I think...

yes, quite right..

we could have two couches real close to each other. kind of like at right angles.

already have two couches (remember? the old one, then we moved in the leather one) we could put in two more and make a pit!

For an orchestra!

no, for dancing...anyone gotta Skatenigs tape?

ha-ha! Small space to dance on, isn't it? Well, we can just stand still in time.

the Skatenigs huh... you are certainly outlining your mood! I cannot do ANYTHING in time (on time, occassionally) so how about we just dance in whatever teeny space we're allotted... FREE FORM... (like my singing, shall I sing??)

Is that a trick question? Well, okay then, but only if you sing that one called, WOO HOO - you know, the one you sing so loudly, it echoes all over our computers sometimes.

you mean Woo Woo? I'm sure I could come up with a catchy tune to go along!

Oh, believe me, it's catchy enough as it is!

not my mood, Stacey, outlining the only type of dancing I can do well... and they did mention making a pit...wonder how difficult couch diving is...

give it a whirl!!!

ha-ha!!! Just lend us that fancy bath of yours, Stacey!

pile in!

cor, can we? that'd be ace. nekkid hot-tubbin'!

i dunno, sure hot tubbin' is good for my fur?

You might wind up looking like an albino wolf when you get out!

haha! wouldn't that be interesting....how'd i explain it to the rest of the pack?

They'd probably make you the omega!

no joke!

Yes, get it, Wolf - if you're good we'll comb your face for you.

will you comb mine next 'cause I ain't shaved in awhile...

Sure - I'll even comb your arse for you if you ask REALLY nicely. Or even better, I'll let Stacey do that . . .

that hasn't been done in a long time...both of you may need to work in shifts...

Okay, let me just go find my rhino brush - that ought to do the trick. Want a middle- or a side parting?

I'll leave that up to the expert...

Hmm, now let's see. If I cut it a bit, it'll form a page boy - then you can wear those trousers that sag down to your knees, so everyone can see you're new buttocks-style. You'll be able to make a pony and everything. How does that sound? Oh, and a middle parting will of course be the most natural thing.

roflmao! where's the detangler!

well, if you two is a team, and she's creating the do, I guess that makes you the detangler...

(this does not sound like an ideal job...)

(would agree with you there one hundred percent... which, of course, is fine with me as I figure you'd eventually get frustrated and start shaving...)

Think I'll stick to the do - just don't you dare fart, dear muffin, or the scissors may slip . . .

there is only one response to all of that euwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Okay, if you ask that nicely, I can't possibly say no. Get down those pants, so I can do yours too . . .

um, polite decline?

Damn, so much for thoughts of a bum-styling career! Ah, well - staring into pumpkin poltergeists ALL day would take the fun out of it anyway!

now i am afraid of you :)

Of me? �smile� And what terrible things do you think I might do to you?

as opposed to the terrible things you know she would do to you given the chance...

Was that a 'please'? Shall I do the terrible thing now or when you phone me in Switzerland?

(scrunches up in couch, pulling knees into chest) So, like, I'm me. But who's that? The thing I've realised for a while now is that whoever I am, it's different to who I think I am. And there's no way I can stand outside of myself, look back in and see the truth. But you all can. So do. Tell me who you think I am. This is just an experiment, and I hope it's not too self-indulgent!

In time you will end up surprising yourself, I think. As an outsider I think you're an intelligent, honest, funny, kind and very stubborn person. And I think it's good that you are.

Did you ever have these heart-to-heart conversations at slumber parties? And all the girls would get pissed off at each other for telling them their faults and go home in the middle of the night?

I haven't. Not even sure what a slumber party is - don't think we have those in Namibia. But when Gillian (my best friend) and I go to Paris we always end up telling each other about our faults halfway through the journey, when we're bloated with cheese and cake, and bored; then we fight all through the last two hours, but then we get there, and the city is just so beautiful, and there is the adventure of tracking down our hotel, and all the wonderful smells, the river, the street musicians and artists - and then we're best friends again.

I have to make it to Paris in this lifetime.

DO. You have not lived until you've seen Paris. You have not eaten until you've eaten in Paris. And, boy, it's a romantic city.

we could have a Spring trip to Paris. now that would be cool. Spring trip to Austin. Spring trip to Paris. Spring trip to Brighton (i'll put you all up :)) fun fun fun.

Count me in!!

It'll probably end up being only the three of us!

are these going to turn out like the National Lampoon's Vacation movies? (don't know about Paris...I think me in Paris would be quite scary...)

NO!!!!! Wer, really, Paris is the least scary place in the world. ANYTHING goes there, and we won't turn out like those horrible movies. They give an utterly false impression of life ANYWHERE in Europe. There is just so much to see! You can eat bread in the park beneath the Eiffel tower, wander the beautiful, cobbled streets, go to the art market, see the most beautiful cathedrals imaginable, eat and drink like a king for little money, and you can stay out as late as you please - it's very very safe. And I bet you'd be SAD to go back afterwards.

Bruce Sterling has a terrific article in the latest Wired magazine about the Eifel Tower, where he recently dined and accumulated the most interesting statistics and historical lore. And he talks about other "mega-projects" around the world incidentally. A worthwhile read if you want the background on the Eifel Tower. That Bruce has a rough life, being assigned to places like Paris, but someone has to do Wired's dirty work I guess.

I'd love to replace him - I could just do with a dirty job like that.

You would fit right in in Paris, wer...there are 10 wers on every street corner! But the cost would be prohibitive.

oh, please explain... (and, just how do you picture me in that head of yours?)

ha-ha, Autumn!!! I think you're right!

ok, then you, too...how do you have me pictured in that head of yours, Riette? (you can do a sketch and post it in art if you want...)

(this is supposing that I'm no longer in my white suit and hat, Riette...)

I'll do the sketch . . .

If you ever do a montage of "spring" could we make it into a t shirt Riette?

yeah, why ain't you doing a logo for this place?

That would be awesome! If she's game.

(or at least gamey...)

I picture you as a real "character," wer, with cross-sections from all walks of life too numerous to mention here. I am frankly curious to see you/your picture, because of all the folks here, you are the one I feel I'm best able to envision (yet I have no idea what you look like, except the height). :-)

Terry, I'd love to design a t-shirt thing for us, of course, but you have now seen my style, and all my work has a slightly african touch - I don't know if that appeals to everyone/whether that would be fair. AFter all, most people here are American, and I don't know how to do something more american looking.

Think spring and all it's connotations. Flowing water. Seasons. Flowers.

I'll think about it - but nothing's going to happen straight away. The mosaic is slow and painstaking work, and I can't do anything else until I've finished it - self-discipline is very important to me, because it is not part of my nature. But I'll start doing some sketches in bed.

*raised eyebrow*?

�raised eyebrow too� Why? Sketching in bed? Some people read in bed, I sketch.

People do things in beds.

And others do it in the hay.

As in roll?

You will know.

Use the force.

That's my motto too.

Has someone been eating blackberries on the new couch?? You know, big, fat, juicy ones that leave your fingers purple?

numph I...

Wasn't me, really, I swear it's just paint!

and it'll wash right off... (well, at least it did off of Stacey and I...)

Just don't you dare lick her - I don't want to be responsible for the two of you ending up in hospital!

edible paints... flavored too! I prefer the mango buttered pear glacee with verigated sprikles!

and I, personally, am intrigued by the thought of being hospitalized for over-licking...

*laugh*

or under-licking for that matter

or licking under the matter

After all, the licking is what matters . . . especially under.

not to drift off topic, but... anyone seen Stacey's shoulders around here lately?

No - she's probably decided it's time to run around the globe. Or perhaps she just has a more interesting life than the rest of us!

probably the latter, Stacey HAS a life!!

Stacey goes, and comes.

Maybe she's in Austin--remember she was trying to find a good fare before school started back up?

If she is, I hope she calls.

the problem is bad wiring in her house...the computer fritz's out on her, so she doesn't get on very often... the time for her to be in Austin is past, she should be teaching again already so...my prediction is that she'll be on from school in the next two weeks, give or take...

What, Wer? You've got private investigators all over America, spying on yer fellow springmates there, is that it? Or is that what you do in your sparetime? You just seem to know everything about all of us!!! Oh, listen, I've forgotten where I put my spatula - can you tell me where it is?

in a mixing bowl in the back of the cabinet, or in the bottom of a toybox...

Oh, thank you ever so . . . got it! It was in the bottom of a toybox.

*sigh* what a day. i dont normally like to whine or complain about anything but now i feel that i just neet to blab. i guess the major reason i learned not to complain about anything is that i learned real quickly that NOBODY CARES! you get further in life if you just learn to shut the fuck up and listen to other people rant. it eats you up inside sometimes. like right now. i just need someone to listen to me i guess. my fiancee has bee wonderful in this regard, having cooked me a loving dinner tonight. but i do not want to wear her out with my problems, which are so vague and intangible. i guess i am having a crisis of mortality. that is, i feel as though i have not contributed anything worthwhile to the world, nor do feel that i ever will. it is important for human beings to feel important, empowered, part of an important whole. every now and then i realize that my time here has produced precious little in terms of anything, and i realize i am just some working schmuck who no one listens to. what to do? well, one thing i can do is to hurry up and get married and have children. that is something i know will help. aside from that i really dont know. for as long as i can remember i have been striving for some sort of recognition, some sort of external indicator of my own worth. and for a while there i learned that such worth does not come from outside, but from within. you really have to value yourself first before you can get anything done in this world. however, when it comes right down to it, i really dont like myself at all. maintaining a sense of self worth is difficult under such circumstances. i go through these existential crises from time to time and always manage to pull myself together. i will be fine, i just need to get this overwith and get back to dealing with myself and with reality!

who said you had to save the world to contribute to this one? i think you just being you is what matters and who the heck cares? who's idea of success are you using? i have children and i love them with everything i have. don't have children to give something to the world. that is the wrong reason. they're gifts from God not gifts we give. we all feel sorry for ourselves once in a while (and i'm in that rut right now)....just leave yourself alone! *hugs*

Ray, I am terrible at giving advice, but I'm really sorry you feel like this. The bit that bothers me is that you feel you must/want to give something to the world. You mean like an earth moving scientific discovery? Something major to do with your work? I think we all want to do that from time to time. But what do we think we will achieve personally through this? I mean once people have your formula, once people know that Wer is the world's best cook, once they know Ri�tte is the ultimate artist, w at then? The world may admire you for a while, the world might put your photo on the cover of some fancy magazine once or twice, the world may refer to your formula as the Lopez String, and give you a couple of million or so to keep you happy. So what? The world will not thank you, or comfort you when you are in pain, she will not care about YOU, but about your discovery, she will not give a damn when you create a scandal, she will exploit you. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. Look at movie sta s or sports stars for example. They get EXPLOITED, nothing else. Their so-called 'admirers' exploit them - they invade their private lives by writing them moronic love-letters; people whom they don't know or care about, except that they find them physically attractive; these 'admirers' put sleezy photos of them on the internet; they get hounded by the people who encourage these admirers in order to earn money, in order to exploit. Nobody really cares about the person underneath the glamour - they do 't WANT that person without the glamour. And these people (those who are the slightest bit intelligent) become very unhappy - probably more so than those of us who are lucky enough to be ordinary, to live a free life, to be ourselves, to be FREE. I say, fu�k the world, Ray. The world does not care about you. Strive for freedom, not recognition, because that is where happiness lies - that is where your wonderful fiancee is with her loving dinners, and calm, soothing conversation, your family and friend , and it's the best place to bring your children up in. I know my advice is a true test for friendship, but I send it your way with all my love.

A silent description of the night that you might see in the flight of an eagle along the mountain edge, where your heart has enough creative emptiness to feel and live this experience fully, completely, with the present being with you and in you, now, here, as even the whole becomes the seeing, and then the very seeing of beauty itself is an art. We can play the piano with great technique, or paint a painting the same way, with a clever use of colors, shapes and spatial relationships, but it may not have an ounce of creativity, because there may be no song, no beauty. To be vitally alive to the moment is where the meaning and worth of life frees the mind of routine, habit, judgment, conditioning, comparison. A different energy comes into the pulse, an energy that doesn't leave a trace....it moves, it changes, it's of the unknown.....and it's of love.

i guess i did a fairly good job of communicating my feelings in the above post, because the advice given here is so damn good! it is amazing to me that people really do give a damn sometimes. anyway, i feel lots better today. i just need to learn to focus on the thhings that are truly important to me, my health, my family, and my fiancee and our home, and God.

I'm just coming in on the tail end of this discussion, and must agree with all the good advice. I, too, have been feeling melancholy lately and it comes at a good time. Thank you all for being here.

Seems we're all in it together a bit. I don't have those future and where-am-I-going worries - I know I'm going nowhere!! - but I feel so damned inadequate sometimes, like everything just goes wrong, even if I try to do the right thing.

think we all do. this week, i have been in the dumps and people's attitudes at work just don't help any. wish i really could speak my mind. however, my position doesn't allow me too. so feel sorry for my family who hear all about it when i get home. i'm the bandaid lady, you know, the one who takes it upon themselves to fix everything. but i have learned that it's not my job. doesn't stop me from trying, though. *group hugs* i appreciate all of you for being here, giving me the space to vent my frustrations...

we'll always be here!

(even if we're being quiet...and have deplorable pseudonyms...)

As long as you keep living up to that deplorable pseudonym we don't mind.... Wolf, I think you're an incredibly kind person.

It can really get to you, that "being everything to everyone" role. I'm getting to the point where I just want to be left alone; each man, woman and child for himself!

I'm all for you on that one, Autumn---ooops, got confused, got confused

What's up, Jim?

i know that feeling well, autumn. we have so many demands made of us that it's easy to get lost in it. puts me in a downright terrible mood....

Nobody likes me anymore, Autumn. I scowl at them and they reassure me with a slap to my nose. The rubberbands I bought down at Walmart don't hold my ego together any better than the mudcaked straw I was using up till then. 17 of my best friends phoned me this morning on the way to the toilet, at 4:00 a.m., to just laugh at my worries and fears and problems and anxieties and deformities and depressions and sorrows and suffering and neurochemistry and and and I never did make it to the toilet. I peed al over myself. My cat laughed at me. I hate the way I hate, and the hate just gets stronger and laughs at me. The ceiling fell on me this afternoon and so did the rain. And I got wet. The sky just laughed at me. I swapped lives with an orphan (who was always getting picked on by bullies) so I could feel more at home. I was walking down the street and cars were running over me right and left, I didn't have a chance. The sttreet laughed at me and all my blood. I couldn't sleep at dinner. The food j st laughed at me and kept me awake. I walked into a funeral parlor and begged for medical advice. They laughed at me and pointed out the door to the graves. Then they kicked me when I wasn't looking. When I turned to look at them, a basketball hit me full-force in the face at 97.63 miles an hour and put a dent in my left eye. I did the cha-cha for a powerful fat man who then just sat on me and made my stomach have one of those nervous breakdowns. Before I could even cry, he laughed at me and then he laughed some more. So did the sky again. The streets wouldn't let me walk on them. The cars wouldn't let me fall to the ground. Computers becames airplanes that flew into my vertebrae and all my connective tissue. Kids ran up to me and warned their kids not be born if they wanted to turn into something like me. I cried before they could laugh at me, then they laughed at me and then they laughed some more. The sky laughed with them. The streets wouldn't let me rain. The cars wouldn't let me let on . The night is trying to spook me right now. I won't let it unless somebody starts laughin' again. The cars still won't let me fall to the ground. I almost forget what it's like to be nonhereditary and sequential. Can ya even believe that? My fingers are longer than my car. And they're laughin' at me. At me. At me. At me. At me. At me. At me. At me. BTW, I'm okay. I feel great. That was fun. How are you? I mean, Autumn, what's up?---you never said. Do you know anyone who is a little eccentric? If yes, in what way? Who is the most gentle-natured person you know? Ten years from now, if your daughters come home with different colored mohawks and piercings, lots of 'em in their faces, how will you respond? Would you like to have someone similar to yourself as a friend? What is the most adventurous thing you did as an adult? How did you make mo ey as a teenager? What have you never understood? If you were given a part to play in a movie, what would that part be? What do you think the human mind is really capable of? If you used even 40% of your brain power, what do you think you could accomplish? What new dimensions could you tap into? What do you consider true genius? Can you see yourself as homeless? If you lost your job or home, and had no family or friends, what would you do? What one thing do you want to do or see before you die? hose home besides your own do you feel at home in? How honest are you? Who is the most honest person you know? How are you feeling? How are you? It's pretty nice to know you. You really are Autumn. It's what's cool.

Sorry you feel like that Autumn. I must say, I don't think there is such a thing as perfect balance in life. When I was alone, before husband and kids, I was just alone. There was no-one to bother me. I did my own thing (unsuccessfully), decided my own day, ate what I liked, slept when and where I liked - there was so much freedom in that. But I had not the love, and that made me miserable at times when I needed the love. So that's why freedom is no balance. Then I go married and had the girls. I get so frustrated at times that I can go nuts, I tell you. I find this life demanding, my kids demanding, my husband demanding, I always have to arrange EVERYTHING around them, I always have to make what they want to eat, not what I want, I always have to tidy up their crap, and sometimes I think it unfair that he is allowed to come back from work tired, and neither he nor the kids ever understand that I also get tired at times, they don't understand how playing wi h paint all day while having to get the washing done, cook their food, clean their crap can be tiring. And that pisses me off, as well as the routine of being there for others. Then I also feel like just pushing everyone away. There is no balance there whatsoever. But there is so much love, you know. I have three people in the world who truly adore me. No matter who hates me, no matter who laughs at me, no matter who fears or scorns me, there are three people who love me completely unconditionally. I never have to feel lonely anymore, I have people here within my reach, to pour my own love upon; it's a selfish thing, I'm sure, but that those are the choices: freedom without that love, or the love without the freedom. Jim, more and more I am truly glad that things turned out the way it did.

i agree, riette. my babies adore me. my husband loves me and thinks i'm funny even in my pissy moods. and my pets just think i'm the next best thing to canned dog food. truly have been blessed and thank God everyday for these things. and being honest with my moods just brings us all together. after i holler and vent i can tell them why and it's ok. you know? i never want to lose that. *hugs*

Absolutely. I think it is okay to feel the weight of the responsibility heavily and painfully at times; and as long as I am able to see the big picture, as long as I can be honest with myself, and say: okay, so today I felt like a cop all day, today I hated being a wife and mother, but that at least means that tomorrow can only be better; as long as I can face up to it, and don't run away (as one feels like doing at times!!), then everything will be alright in the end. I guess that's my motto: NEVER RUN, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T REALLY HIDE. One always HAS to face things in the end.

Whoa... the couch got HEAVY whilst I was away!

stacey! girl, glad to see you back!! you ready for school?

almost... working another job right now until the end of next week...

they must have kept you busy!

see, I told you she'd be back soon... (even if I was wrong about when school started...)

That happens.

over here, my son starts school Mon. and my daughter *sob* starts Sep 1. (you see my baby girl is growing up)

Big school?! Wow, that's going to be hard, isn't it? Probably harder on you than on her. My best friend's eldest child started kindergarten a year ago, and on the first day she (my friend!) was so upset that I stayed with her all day - and I could really see how it could upset her so. Of course Alexandra loved every minute of it, and has done ever since, but it's that big letting-go thing that got my friend, I think. Well, next year it will be Isa's turn, so only then will I be able to speak of these things with first-hand experience. Can't say I'm looking forward to it much either.

Here you go, Jim-- Do you know anyone who is a little eccentric? Oh, yes. If yes, in what way? He is as much of a "character" as you are--your posts remind me of him a great deal. Who is the most gentle-natured person you know? Kathy L. She organizes our organic food co-op, and I think if I refused to pay her or told her I was going to screw her husband, she'd say, "Well, OK, if that's how you feel" in this really meek, mild voice. Ten years from now, if your daughters come home with different colored mohawks and piercings, lots of 'em in their faces, how will you respond? I'd probably say, "How d'ya think I'd look with one of those?" Would you like to have someone similar to yourself as a friend? God, no. My friends are a pretty eclectic mix and we complement each other well. What is the most adventurous thing you did as an adult? It depends on how you define adventurous. Getting married to someone I'd only known a few months was a bit of a risk. Driving in downtown Baltimore by myself the first time felt very adventurous. Venturing into a gang-ridden neighborhood in Philly with a friend looking to buy some crack felt pretty adventurous, too. How did you make money as a teenager? I didn't--asked Mom & Dad for it. They didn't believe in teens having jobs. What have you never understood? Why people live together before they get married (I do NOT mean to offend anyone!) If you were given a part to play in a movie, what would that part be? Keyser Soze. (ha ha!) What do you think the human mind is really capable of? Good question! I don't think it can accomplish half of what it has. If you used even 40% of your brain power, what do you think you could accomplish? I am inherently lazy and lacking in ambition, which is fine. But if I really wanted to, I think I could homeschool my children. What new dimensions could you tap into? Oh, none. What do you consider true genius? Acumen in the humanities/fine arts. Can you see yourself as homeless? Oh, no. I have no survival instinct. If you lost your job or home, and had no family or friends, what would you do? I suspect I would just lose my will to live and let myself die of apathy, exposure or some such thing. What one thing do you want to do or see before you die? I will get back to you on that. Whose home besides your own do you feel at home in? My parents'. I swear my papers from high school are still lying on the kitchen table. How honest are you? I exaggerate terribly. Who is the most honest person you know? My husband is honest to a fault. That's about all that's up with me, Jim. Aren't you sorry you asked??

One enormous trait (a real strength) you have is how clear and concise you are. That is so missing from what I know and feel. You live it. The affect effect that has on me is like a rapture. It's like having a photosensitive coating laid over me and then having this new image start to grow on me and slowly appear, in sharp resolution and true colors. You bring on a dawning, an emulsion, a transmutation. I never thought you'd answer those questions. Not only did you, you just sound so solid. You're really you. It's powerful. It's like you can see straight into something, so direct. Your arrow goes right into the target, quivering its quivers upon impact. Startling impact. Even the target itself jumps back some. I like you again and again, Autumn.

I've finally manage to figure out your true profession, Jim - you're a professional flatterer! I think your first words when you came into the world were: 'Mother, your inside is so BEAUTIFUL, it moves me, the rhythm and strength with which you squeezed me out will never stop quivering in my memory....and by the way, nursie, I like the bounce in your pounce, and how you gave overall muscle to Mama's drive to push outward; it was sudden and momentous with a lot of portent, because somehow today you just had a way of bringing out the real guts and core and root of what was happening here.' !!!!

LOL!! you're starting to sound like him now, riette!

ha-ha! Shall I tell you the trick? You have to watch Johnny Bravo and read a few Chumbawamba CD covers.

well, today i have embarked on a new quest: to lose weight! i rejoined weight watchers (after being away for about 3 years) and i have to say it looks good. they have a new program that is much easier to live by than the old method. right now i weigh a massive 250 pounds. my goal is to get down to about 185. i don't have a set time limit, i just hope to lose it over the next couple of years. weight watchers has worked for me before so i am optimistic.

dude, you're 100 lbs over me (and i'm a short person so trust me, it doesn't look good). am in the process of revamping my diet (not diet like the latest fad). just trying to make sure i eat well. and am exercising again. does WW still cost a lot? does it work like jenny craig (it's not what you're eating, it's what's eating you). you have a realistic timeline. a lot of people want a quick fix. a gal i work with was getting in trouble with her weight and she wanted to try a pill. another co-worker's wife works in a doc's office and set up an appointment for the her. well, upon being told that her blood pressure was too high, this gal got mad at the guy who's wife set up the whole thing for her. she just was too lazy to get off her arse. kept saying, "i can't wait to be skinny" and then i would see her eating BK Diner and getting into the snack bar. yeah, i'd like to lose weight quick too, but it would come back double, you know? stay healthy! you can due it ray!!

Good for both of you, doing what you know is healthy. I have beeen smoking more than ever this summer for some reason.

I don't smoke. That's the only healthy part of my life. So I really admire you guys for looking after yourselves so well.

I just got out of the pool, it felt great, a refreshing way to cap off the day! Ray, you can do it man. Just work out a lot. Lot's of walks, runs, go swimming, get to the health club. You've got to get a bit fanatical about health and working out, that's all!

I find working out way too boring, plus it doesn't change the way my body looks. Think I must be made out of stone. So my workouts consist of running/dancing/wrestling with my kids . . . and sex. At least it's fun, and it doesn't feel healthy.

You're having fun, and getting a lot of good exercise at it!

How wholesome that makes me feel!!! Perhaps you'll feel differently about it if I were to wrestle YOU!!

Sounds like wrestlemania.

ha-ha!!! Yes, I've always been very butch, you know!

haha!! working out with weights will help tone and shape your body (God, i sound like a commercial). but seriously, smaller weights more reps. oh, and riette, everytime you say you're shaped weird i think of picasso (trust me, though i know what you mean)

i was seriously addicted to weightlifting once and i wish i had the time to pursue it. right now my exercise will consist of mostly walking and jogging. thanks for all the words of encouragement!!!

that's the best way to start out. the walking will be easier on your body than running and it's the best way to keep weight off. AND you can do it everyday! don't think it's so much as how fast you walk but that you do it and you can make up for the speed by walking farther.

the whole fitness thing really builds on itself. everytime I make it to the top of a mountain or back home after a particularly invigorating skate, I remember why I take care of my body. i used to be fanatical about exercise because I was terrified of losing control... but now I just really love to play and sweat and see new things on the top of very tall peaks. and I still LOVE to eat!

No, $hit, that stuff's not for me. Baby lifting is about my limit! I just don't have the sort of mind that will tell me: exercise is good for you, take 20 or 30 minutes a day, and do it. Or as long as 'exercise' is called, walking in the woods, wrestling, playing ball, playing catch, I love it. But the word itself does nothing for me - uh-ugh! I'm lucky in that, although I'm arranged like a Picasso (eyes and all!!), even FOOD won't change my wicked shape, and so at least I never get fat!

well, having been doing the weight watchers thing now for just over 2 weeks, i have lost a total of 12.5 pounds!!!!!!!!!! i cant say enough good things about weight watchers. i am hoping to soon get back to a semi-trim athletic physique and maybe take up boxing again

Slaps Ray a high five. Could you detail your daily routine?

well, it's pretty simple: given your weight, you are assigned a range of "points" per day. every single food item in the world has some point value associated with it, and the idea is to simply eat a variety of foods throughout the day that add up to your being equal to or less than the maximum number of points you can eat per day. for example, when i started weight watchers, my weight was 250 lbs. this means that I am allotted 26 to 33 points a day. Non-starchy veggies are zero points so you can eat as many of those as you want. diet sodas and water are also zero points. on the other end of the spectrum you have a small cheesburger at about 11 points, and one of the Ceasar Wraps at Long John Silver's has a whopping 33 points in it. as part of the program you get little pocket sized books that catalog all of the points in pretty much every type of food there is. they also have a book that has listings for about 15 fast food places and the points for every menu item. besides points, weight watchers also involves eating a healthy variety of foods, as much activity/exercise as possible, and of course going to the weekly meetings. the best part of ww is the fact that you can eat any type of food you want, you just have to watch how much of it you eat.

so basically, ww is teaching you how to eat properly again? because it has always been my firm belief that one can eat whatever they want as long as they don't eat ALL of it and exercise 3 times a week. good job, ray! am proud of you...i think i know where those 12 pounds went...

that is exactly what ww teaches! and i was surprised at how little i really know about what is good for you and what is not good for you.

That's great, Ray! You sound very happy, and that makes me happy too!

thanks, riette!

(*patting Ray on the back*) Way to go, ratthing! Keep that up and you won't be able to fit in your tuxedo!

Ray, I've got a question. You used to be a boxer, right? Welll, here's my question: Is it not very painful?

it can be a very painful way to live. during the training is when one experiences the most pain. whether lifting weights, jumping rope, sparring, you were always pushing yourself til you hurt. actual matches were also painful too. I was an amatuer boxer, meaning that you get to wear a padded helmet. the upshot of this is that most of the strategy in boxing someone else involved working the body. which means getting your body beat up. after a long fight i hurt so bad that even my internal organs hurt. i quit doing it mainly because i was a pretty bad boxer and had injured myself to the point where i could not adequately train any more. personally, i found the whole experience extremely gratifying. it really helped me to develop self-confidence and to not be afraid to face anyone anywhere. it was also a good way to meet women!

ha-ha! You little massochist! Finding it gratifying to have hurting internal organs. Ouch!

This is way later than your comment, and you might have changed your mind in the interim, but I am curious why it was a good way to meet women, and what sort of women you met. I have only been to amateur local meets and collegiate bouts...the women there were not like me (which is probably what they were saying about me...)

I don't like socializing with women. They are too into clique-forming. Guys don't give a damn about whether one buys vegetables at the supermarket or at B�rkli Platz Market, which is far more expensive, and which is the difference about getting by and being comfortable. That just pi$$es me off about our sex. The damned vanity of it.

ahhh... the root of the problem... and why I have few female friends...

Men are the only friends I have ever had who remained friends for a long time. Women are users...I find that very difficult to handle. There are exception, as I have discovered recently (very cherished and caring ladies, all!)...but for real trust, I almost never tell a woman anything. And, you're right, Ree, they are clique-forming which is the most appalling form of elitism I can think of.

See, THAT'S why we are such good friends!!! We relate to each other like guys! �Tim Allen gorilla snort�

Oh, and add a burp, a fart, and spit in the corner. HMMMM, do you FEEEEEEEEL that testosterone rush, ladies???

I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel it!!!! Amen BroSister *grin*

Praise the, L-A-W-R-D!

Today's Theory of Cliques and Tribes... A Tribe is a group of people with a common set of fears.

Good. It's got to be more pleasant to be part of a group of people with a common set of fears, rather than a common set of vanities. I remember clearly thinking as a child that, if 'good christians' are the people who are destined for heaven, then I'd rather go to hell with all the normal people.

Mark Twain had some sort of cutting remark to the same effect. Count me in, too. The only people I know who are sure about going to Heaven are so...well, like you say, I'd like to stay with the normal people!

They're so tight-ar$ed, THAT's what!

To get to Heaven, one must overcome all one's fears. Few manage that. Especially those who have Fear of Heaven.

I think it's impossible to overcome ALL one's fears. Fear is part of being human - to presume we can be better than human in this life can cause greater fear. The quality of Life depends on how you DEAL with fears that are difficult to overcome. Heaven? A place or a state of consciousness?

perhaps we overcome them ALL when we die... when we did are we no longer human? hmmm... just askin'

I don't know if we're human or not when we die - how can I speculate about something I don't know about? I'll have to wait and see.

*laugh* Ree-face, I speculate 'bout things I don't know ALL THE TIME! *grin*

Yes, but everybody knows you're BARKING, Stacey-facey! �giggle�

Au contraire... I am meowing... *MEOW* (then I hiss and growl if I don't get my way!)

OOH! I'm tremblin' in me boots! Stand back, everyone! If she can hiss and growl, it is quite possible that she can spit as well!

and projectile vomit hairballs!

Whose hair??

whoever I been licking lately!

EEEEK!!!!