Jumbo Jets crash in to World Trade Center

NEW YORK � Two planes crashed into the upper floors of both World Trade Center towers minutes apart today in what President Bush said was an apparent terrorist attack, blasting fiery, gaping holes in the 110-story buildings. There was no immediate word on deaths or injuries. The president ordered a full-scale investigation to "hunt down the folks who committed this act." The twin disasters happened shortly before 9 a.m. EDT and then right around 9 a.m. EDT. In Washington, officials said the FBI was investigating reports of a plane hijacking before the crashes. Heavy black smoke billowed into the sky above the gaping holes in the side of the 110-story twin towers, one of New York City's most famous landmarks, and debris rained down upon the street, one of the city's busiest work areas. When the second plane hit, a fireball of flame and smoke erupted, leaving a huge hole in the glass and steel tower. "Today we've had a national tragedy," Bush said. He called it "an apparent terrorist attack." Ira Furber, former NTSB spokesman, discounted the likelihood that it was an accident. "I don't think this is an accident," he said on CNN. "You've got incredibly good visibility. No pilot is going to be relying on navigational equipment." "It's just not possible in the daytime," he added. "A second occurrence is just beyond belief." The towers were struck by terrorist bombers in February 1993, killing six people and injuring more than 1,000 others. All New York City-area airports were shut down, and several subway lines were immediately shut down. Trading on Wall Street was suspended. "The plane was coming in low and ... it looked like it hit at a slight angle," said Sean Murtagh, a CNN vice president, the network reported. "I was watching TV and heard a sonic boom," Jeanne Yurman told CNN. "The side of the World Trade Center exploded. Debris is falling like leaflets. I hear ambulances. The northern tower seems to be on fire." Thousands of pieces of what appeared to be office paper came drifting over Brooklyn, about three miles from the tower. A senior government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the agency is pursuing reports that one or both of the planes were hijacked and that the crashes may have been the result of a suicide mission. The source stressed that the reports are preliminary and officials do not know the cause of the crashes. "It certainly doesn't look like an accident," said a second government official, also speaking on condition of anonymity. In 1945, an Army Air Corps B-25, a twin-engine bomber, crashed into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building in dense fog. In Sarasota, Fla., Bush was reading to children in a classroom at 9:05 a.m. when his chief of staff, Andrew Card, whispered into his ear. The president briefly turned somber before he resumed reading. He addressed the tragedy about a half-hour later. from AP report

It is being reported that one of the towers has collapsed. The White House and other national offices are being evacuated.

TO ALL OUR FRIENDS AT DROOL IN THE US FROM YOUR FRIENDS IN AUSTRALIA WE ARE THINKING AND PRAYING FOR YOU ALL DURING THIS HORRIBLE MOMENT IN HISTORY. TAKE CARE ALL OF YOU!!! GOD BLESS ALL OF US!!

Now, there's a report of another hijacked plane headed toward Washington DC. Both World Trade Centers have totally collapsed!

This is like the Pearl Harbor of the world's terrorists.

Topic 1180 [current]: Terrorist attack on the World Trade Center #84 of 98: Kim Bassett (kimage) Tue Sep 11 '01 (07:52) 26 lines I've been watching ABC coverage through both collapses. Judging from the commentary plus live pictures: - There does not appear to have been a third plane impacting the WTC towers. If there is a third plane, ABC hasn't mentioned it in the last 30 minutes. - For the first collapse, the top floors above the point of impact began collapsing, the stress and failure cascading downwards all the way to the bottom. The second collapse appeared to start from the lower floors, upper floors dropping downwards. - Neither tower toppled significantly to the side; there was worry of a triage center being taken out in the second collapse, but both towers *predominantly* slid downwards. No info about damage or harm to adjacent buildings. - One small plane confirmed hit the pentagon. Scattered talk of a car bomb outside the State Department, including a smoke plume visible in the background of shots of White House evacuations. - No casualty figures as yet. The numbers are likely to be horrifying, from the plane hijacks alone.

From the NYT, reporting on Bush's statements: Mr. Bush who was said to be on his way back from a visit from Sarasota, Fla., to Washington has ordered that "the full resources of the federal government" be used to carry out a full investigation to find out who was responsible for the World Trade Center attacks. "Terrorism against our country will not stand," he said, before ending by leading a prayer for victims of the attacks.

By Charles Babington washingtonpost.com Staff Writer Tuesday, September 11, 2001; 10:10 a.m. Minutes after two airplanes crashed into New York City�s World Trade Center towers this morning in a what appears to be the gravest terrorist attack ever in America, a large airplane-caused explosion and fire took place at the Pentagon and explosions were reported at the Capitol and the State Department. At about 10 a.m., one of the 110-story World Trade Center towers collapsed, and the second tower collapsed about 30 minutes later. The tragedies stunned the nation and prompted officials, fearing still more attacks, to evacuate the Capitol, the White House, State Department and other federal buildings. Flights were canceled at all major airports in the nation. At about 10:20 a.m., the Associated Press reported the a car bomb explosion outside the State Department, senior law enforceement officials said. Shortly before the Pentagon fire ignited, President Bush called the New York disasters "an apparent terrorist attack on our country." He hastily departed from Florida, where he had scheduled an education speech, and returned to Washington. Early details were sketchy, but the New York attacks seemed certain to cause heavy losses of life and many injuries. There were reports that an American Airlines 767 had been hijacked earlier today on a scheduled flight from Boston to Los Angeles, and apparently was one of the planes flown into the giant towers that dominate lower Manhattan�s skyline. The second crash, which touched off a giant fireball in one of the tower�s upper floors shortly after 9 a.m. EDT, took place as many Americans watched live on television. New York�s airports were quickly closed, the New York Stock Exchange was evacuated, and millions of Americans watched in horror and disbelief as news of the Pentagon fire soon followed. In Florida, Bush pledged to use �the full resources of the federal government government to help the victims and their families" and �to hunt down and find those folks who committed these acts."

Topic 1180 [current]: Terrorist attack on the World Trade Center #101 of 101: Gallatin (rickmoffat) Tue Sep 11 '01 (08:00) 3 lines Big explosion at the London Stock Exchange? I'm getting all this via super-slow web feeds, but we've got video footage of huge smoke plumes there? Can anyone confirm? We got the footage off http://news.bbc.co.uk

This is like the Pearl Harbor of the world's terrorists.

Terry Where are you located? Are you safe? I am in Sydney and watching CNN International and Fox News Cable. It is now 11 am NY time (1 am 12 Sept/Wed Syd time) - they are reporting and showing on screen - 2 Towers now collapsed (I watched the 2nd one collapse!) Am flabbergasted - what can one do?

Topic 1180 [current]: Terrorist attack on the World Trade Center #105 of 106: Colin Brayton (blindone) Tue Sep 11 '01 (08:02) 11 lines I saw the second attack from an elevated subway station in Brooklyn. The plane just veered into the building and the explosion shot through the building. We all gasped, people were weeping, dude I gave spare change to mutters, "Tragedy day ..." My friend Velma was working in the South Tower of the WTC. I just pray that she has not returned from Chicago today. Cannot reach her. Cell phone communications are out here. The plume of smoke is blowing east and south across the river, with fragments of debris shimmering in it: I thought at first it was a fantastic flock of seagulls ... BBC (www.bbc.co.uk) is about the only online news I can get ... I am going downtown Brooklyn to donate blood ... God help us.

I'm in Austin, Texas, Mary, our airport is shut down. All planes in the air have been ordered to land at the nearest airport, nationwide, not just in Austin. I'm here with a bunch of folks at work watching Fox News. No work is getting done today, or very little. The horror is mounting and we're staying calm, but this is the worst tragedy in my lifetime in this country.

"What can one do?" Stay calm and pray.

FAA confirms that there are several planes that are currently unaccounted for (evidently hijacked). No telling where this thing is going.

I got through to MSNBC. Definitely not new, but here's what they are saying: NEW YORK, Sept. 11 � Americans reeled in horror Tuesday as the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history sent planes crashing into the World Trade Center in New York, toppling the twin 110-story towers. An explosion later rocked the Pentagon in Washington. The White House, the Pentagon and the Capitol building were evacuated. Military jets patrolled the skies above both cities. The FAA grounded all civilian aircraft nationwide, but not before reports of another large aircraft crashing in Western Pennsylvania. President Bush vowed to �hunt down the folks who committed this act.� THE FATE OF those in the twin skyscrapers was not immediately known. Authorities had been trying to evacuate the thousands of people who work in the twin towers, but many were thought to be trapped. �I swear I�ve never seen anything like this,� said MSNBC�s Ashleigh Banfield. �This whole place is like a complete war zone.� At the Pentagon, eyewitnesses saw an aircraft crash into part of the sprawling complex. Walls were later seen to have collapsed. An earlier report of a car bomb exploding outside the State Department was later denied. In New York, the aircraft struck minutes apart, starting fires and sending smoke billowing out of the skyscrapers. The top of the south tower later collapsed onto the street below. The first crash happened shortly before 9 a.m. ET. MSNBC.com reporter Martin Wolk, who was inside one of the towers, said the lights flickered and then a loud bang was heard. People panicked and started to flee the building. When they reached the lobby, smoke started to fill the building and people could see debris falling and many cars outside were damaged. �It was sheer pandemonium, people were screaming and crying, afraid to go outside because of the falling debris,� Wolk said. �We looked up and it looked like the top 20 floors were in flames.� Another bystander described a barrage of debris raining down on the sidewalk below. Advertisement Shortly after 9 a.m., a second aircraft was seen crashing into the other tower. Broadcast cameras already watching the scene filmed the second plane as it slammed into the tower and exploded in a huge fireball. A half hour later, President Bush made a brief statement to reporters, calling the disaster a �national tragedy� and attributing it to terrorists. He did not cite any specific terrorist groups but vowed to �hunt down the folks who committed this act.� U.S. military jets reportedly took to the skies to shoot down any unidentified aircraft, and congressional leaders were taken to secure locations. A plane was reported to have been circling the Capitol building before the evacuation. American Airlines later acknowledged that one of its flights had been hijacked Tuesday morning shortly after leaving Boston en route to Los Angeles. In the wake of the crashes, New York airports and the Lincoln Tunnel were closed as precautionary measures. The stock exchanges in New York also did not open. Large holes were visible in sides of the 110-story buildings. The tops of the twin towers were obscured by the smoke. Thousands of pieces of what appeared to be office paper came drifting over Brooklyn, about three miles from the tower, one witness said. Click on the image for reports of the terrorism attacks. In an earlier terrorist attack, the center was bombed on Feb. 26, 1993, killing six people and injured more than 1,000 others. Terrorist Ramzi Yousef and three others were convicted of orchestrating the attack. Three other indicted co-conspirators remain at large. Traffic entering New York City from New Jersey was at a standstill approaching the Holland Tunnel as motorists stood outside their cars watching the fire. Across the country, highrises like Chicago�s Sears Trade tower were being evacuated as a precaution. Buildings were also being evacuated in London. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Terry Our own Australian Prime Minister is in Washington DC. Am staying calm but busy collecting news. Cannot get on to BBC.UK - for those Spring readers who want a confirmation on the bombing in London.

I'll post it as soon as I get it. Some of this stuff may be unconfirmed, read all this with caution. I lot of wild stuff is floating around. I'll post it all and you decide.

rc3.org: September 11, 2001 Part of the Pentagon has collapsed. There are reports that Osama bin Laden warned the U.S. three weeks ago that we would suffer an unprecedented attack. Still awaiting more details on this. ABC is reporting that there was not a car bomb at the State Department after all. The BBC is now reporting that F-16s have been sent to intercept a hijacked plane that is headed for Washington, DC. This must be the plane mentioned earlier. The plane from Pittsburgh that crashed in Somerset County is not the plane that is being intercepted. The BBC is reporting that the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was a 767, not a 747. According to a correspondent in Greece, I hear the following (none of this have I confirmed myself): The first plane was a 747 from American Airlines (capacity 158). (This doesn't sound quite right, 747s hold more than that. Perhaps this plane was a 737 or 767.) The second plane was a 767 from United Airlines. (The BBC is reporting that the UA plane is a 737B.) The plane that hit the Pentagon was a small passenger plane. Another 747 out of Pittsburgh was hijacked, tailed by U.S. fighters, and crashed at Somerset County Airport in Pennsylvania. This may be the plane that I mentioned earlier as being hijacked. (Some are reporting that this plane was shot down.) Both towers of the WTC have now collapsed. No idea whether this was due to further explosions or loss of structural integrity caused by the original explosions. The 911 control center for New York City is (was?) in the World Trade Center. Needless to say, it's down. Yet another plane has been hijacked and is reportedly headed toward Washington DC. All international flights approaching the U.S. have been diverted to Canada. Congressmen have been evacuated to an underground bunker. I've heard many comparisons to Pearl Harbor at this point. Explain to me again why we pump all that money into the NSA and CIA? How did we have no idea that this was coming? A car bomb has exploded outside the State Department. I've now heard from a number of sources that the second tower collapsed completely after it was hit by a third plane (the second to hit that tower in particular). This was just a rumor, there was no third plane to hit the WTC. I'm finding it hard to get to online news sites. You can get a live audio stream from the BBC World Service at Yahoo Broadcast, that's what I'm listening to. Latest news: all flights in the U.S. are grounded, and all planes were ordered to land at the nearest airport. One of the two towers of the WTC has collapsed (at least partially). According to the news, there can be up to 100,000 people in the WTC at any given time. Terrorists have attacked the World Trade Center and Pentagon by deliberately crashing planes into them. One of the planes that crashed into the WTC was a hijacked American Airlines 767 out of Boston, I don't know about the others.

From Indiatimes.com: 'Bin Laden warned of US attack' LONDON: Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden warned three weeks ago that he and his followers would carry out an unprecedented attack on US interests for its support of Israel, an Arab journalist with access to him said on Tuesday. Abdel-Bari Atwan, editor of the London-based al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper said Islamic fundamentalists led by Bin Laden was "almost certainly" behind the attack of the World Trade Center in New York. "It is most likely the work of Islamic fundamentalists. Osama bin Laden warned three weeks ago that he would attack American interests in an unprecedented attack, a very big one," Atwan told Reuters. "Personally we received information that he planned very, very big attacks against American interests. We received several warnings like this. We did not take it so seriously, preferring to see what would happen before reporting it." Atwan has interviewed Bin Laden and maintains close contacts with his followers. ( REUTERS )

NHK sez that CBS reports that 11 planes total have been hijacked, and four are still whereabouts unknown.

This topic has been linked to drool, geo and other conferences here temporarily while this story is unfolding. It will be eventually unlinked.

FORT WORTH, Texas American Airlines confirmed today that it lost two aircraft in tragic incidents this morning. American said the flights were Flight 11, a Boeing 767 en route from Boston to Los Angeles with 81 passengers, nine flight attendants and two pilots; and Flight 77, a Boeing 757 operating from Washington Dulles to Los Angeles with 58 passengers, four flight attendants and two pilots.

This is something that we will all remember in future years, like when JFK was shot, we'll remember where we were and what we were doing when this happened. I was in my car heading to Austin on 183 listening to a sports show when Bucky Goldbolt broke the news and I switched to the local news station to hear more. I was coming up on North Lamar.

11.28 AM NY Time/1.28 am (Wed 12 Sep)Sydney Listening to AustBroadcastingCorp (AustBC) - a CNN reporter getting live feed (can hear in the background). Reporting follows : United Airlines NY to San Francisco has crashed. in addition to those that were reported on the media earlier... Washington to LAX and Boston to LAX.

I have been listening to our news in UK since this terrible news broke and the London Stock Exchange and Canary Wharf have been evacuated as a precautionary.

11.36 AM NY Time/1.36 am (Wed 12 Sep)Sydney AustBC is reporting that the Talliban is reported to have announced that they will be holding press conference soon.

Colin Powell time.

An aside: US attacks slam eurostocks; insurers hit, oil climbs By Sophie Walker and Louise Ireland LONDON, Sept 11 (Reuters) - A series of deadly attacks on U.S. landmark buildings sent European stock markets into a nosedive on Tuesday, with insurance shares taking the brunt of the pressure while investors scrambled to scoop up oil stocks.

Some street celebrations in Palestine.

I got through to MSNBC. Definitely not new, but here's what they are saying: NEW YORK, Sept. 11 � Americans reeled in horror Tuesday as the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history sent planes crashing into the World Trade Center in New York, toppling the twin 110-story towers. An explosion later rocked the Pentagon in Washington. The White House, the Pentagon and the Capitol building were evacuated. Military jets patrolled the skies above both cities. The FAA grounded all civilian aircraft nationwide, but not before reports of another large aircraft crashing in Western Pennsylvania. President Bush vowed to �hunt down the folks who committed this act.� THE FATE OF those in the twin skyscrapers was not immediately known. Authorities had been trying to evacuate the thousands of people who work in the twin towers, but many were thought to be trapped. �I swear I�ve never seen anything like this,� said MSNBC�s Ashleigh Banfield. �This whole place is like a complete war zone.� At the Pentagon, eyewitnesses saw an aircraft crash into part of the sprawling complex. Walls were later seen to have collapsed. An earlier report of a car bomb exploding outside the State Department was later denied. In New York, the aircraft struck minutes apart, starting fires and sending smoke billowing out of the skyscrapers. The top of the south tower later collapsed onto the street below. The first crash happened shortly before 9 a.m. ET. MSNBC.com reporter Martin Wolk, who was inside one of the towers, said the lights flickered and then a loud bang was heard. People panicked and started to flee the building. When they reached the lobby, smoke started to fill the building and people could see debris falling and many cars outside were damaged. �It was sheer pandemonium, people were screaming and crying, afraid to go outside because of the falling debris,� Wolk said. �We looked up and it looked like the top 20 floors were in flames.� Another bystander described a barrage of debris raining down on the sidewalk below. Advertisement Shortly after 9 a.m., a second aircraft was seen crashing into the other tower. Broadcast cameras already watching the scene filmed the second plane as it slammed into the tower and exploded in a huge fireball. A half hour later, President Bush made a brief statement to reporters, calling the disaster a �national tragedy� and attributing it to terrorists. He did not cite any specific terrorist groups but vowed to �hunt down the folks who committed this act.� U.S. military jets reportedly took to the skies to shoot down any unidentified aircraft, and congressional leaders were taken to secure locations. A plane was reported to have been circling the Capitol building before the evacuation. American Airlines later acknowledged that one of its flights had been hijacked Tuesday morning shortly after leaving Boston en route to Los Angeles. In the wake of the crashes, New York airports and the Lincoln Tunnel were closed as precautionary measures. The stock exchanges in New York also did not open. Large holes were visible in sides of the 110-story buildings. The tops of the twin towers were obscured by the smoke. Thousands of pieces of what appeared to be office paper came drifting over Brooklyn, about three miles from the tower, one witness said. Click on the image for reports of the terrorism attacks. In an earlier terrorist attack, the center was bombed on Feb. 26, 1993, killing six people and injured more than 1,000 others. Terrorist Ramzi Yousef and three others were convicted of orchestrating the attack. Three other indicted co-conspirators remain at large. Traffic entering New York City from New Jersey was at a standstill approaching the Holland Tunnel as motorists stood outside their cars watching the fire. Across the country, highrises like Chicago�s Sears Trade tower were being evacuated as a precaution. Buildings were also being evacuated in London. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Terror attacks paralyze Washington, New York By Shelley Emling and Marilyn Geewax Cox News Service Tuesday, September 11, 2001 WASHINGTON � An apparently coordinated series of terror attacks struck the nation's capital and its largest city this morning, destroying both towers of the World Trade Center in New York and shutting down most government operations. An airliner struck the north tower of the 110-story World Trade Center about 8:45 a.m. EDT, followed about 18 minutes later by a second apparently deliberate crash into the south tower. A little more than hour later, the south tower collapsed, and the north tower folowed it. In the capital, a fire forced the evacuation of the Pentagon, reportedly after another aircraft struck the building. A car bomb explosion and fire was also reported at the State Department, which was evacuated along with the Capitol and the White House. The Federal Aviation Administration suspended all aircraft takeoffs across the country. It was not immediately clear who was responsible for the attacks. According to unconfirmed reports, a Palestinian group has claimed responsibility for at least one of the attacks. "There will be hell to pay in the weeks and months ahead," said Neil Livingstone, a terrorism expert in Washington. "This basically amounts to a declaration of war." President Bush, visiting an elementary school in Sarasota, Fla., said, "I've ordered that the full resources of the federal government go to help the victims and their families and to conduct a full-scale investigation to hunt down and to find those folks who committed this act. Terrorism against our nation will not stand." The sound of sirens on Capitol Hill added to the tension as vehicles headed to emergencies in the city. Downtown streets were gridlocked as an air of panic began to spread among workers who poured from buildings. Smoke billowed from the Pentagon, just across the Potomac River from the District of Columbia. "I saw the tail of a large airliner. . . . It plowed right into the Pentagon," said an Associated Press Radio reporter. "There is billowing black smoke." Shortly after the Capitol building was evacuated, Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., said there was an "unauthorized plane" in airspace in the Washington area. "People are trying to figure out where it is. That's all I can tell you right now," Kerry said. In New York, black smoke poured from the international landmark, and paper and debris rained onto the streets. By 9 a.m., thousands of people already were at work on the upper floors of the World Trade Center. Casualties were impossible to determine immediately, but were likely to number at least in the hundreds. Ira Furman, a former spokesman for the National Transportation Safety Board, said it was unlikely the acts were caused by pilot or navigational error. "It is beyond belief," he said. "Planes can come within a few miles of the World Trade Center, but a pilot would never come this close." One witness, Mary Cozza, said she heard a loud "boom" before seeing the crash. "I looked up and saw a plane that looked like it was flying too low," she said. "It looked like it was aimed right at the World Trade Center. We saw the crash. Shattered glass was pouring down. It didn't look like a giant airliner. It didn't look like it was swerving out of control or anything." The World Trade Center has been the target of terrorism before. In February 1993 a terrorist bomb rocked the Manhattan skyscrapers. The World Trade Center is one of the nation's most well-known structures located in the heart of the U.S. financial district, one of the city's most heavily populated areas. Many major financial and technology companies are housed here and it's only a 10-minute walk from the U.S. Stock Exchange. The stock exchange suspended trading just after the crash.

cnn.com (hard to get to now): AMERICA UNDER ATTACK World Trade Centers collapse after planes hit, 10,000 emergency workers head to scene Plane hits Pentagon, part of the Pentagon collapses American, United both confirm losing two planes each Bush calls trade center crashes terrorist act Federal buildings, United Nations evacuated FAA grounds all U.S. flights, sends trans-Atlantic flights to Canada Israel evacuates embassies U.S.-Mexico border closed Non-essential NATO employees asked to leave Brussels HQ

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Terrorists struck the United States Tuesday morning in harrowing, widespread attacks that included at least three commercial jet crashes into significant buildings. � In the first attack, a plane hit the north tower of the World Trade Center in Manhattan shortly before 9 a.m., followed by another plane into the second tower about 20 minutes later. Both towers later collapsed. � About an hour later, a plane crashed into the Pentagon, part of which later collapsed. � American Airlines told CNN that it lost two planes in "tragic accidents:" Flight 11 from Boston with 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard and Flight 77 from Washington Dulles airport with 58 passengers and six crew aboard. Both planes were en route to Los Angeles � United Airlines Flight 93 airliner headed from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, crashed near Somerset, Pennsylvania -- police said initial reports indicated no survivors. United also confirmed the crash of Flight 175 from Boston to Los Angeles. � The Pentagon, the White House, the State Department, the Justice Department, the Capitol, the CIA and all other government buildings in Washington evacuated. � President Bush cancelled an appearance in Florida to return to Washington, calling the crashes "apparent terrorist attacks" and "a national tragedy." � In the first ever national ground stop of aircraft, all flights nationwide have been stopped at their departure airports. � All international flights were diverted to Canada. � Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, said in reaction to the news of the terror attacks that "we want to tell the American children that Afghanistan feels your pain and we hope that the courts find justice." � In New York, more than 10,000 rescue personnel rushed to the scene. The entire downtown area of Manhattan was evacuated as far north as Rockefeller Center, according to an official at an emergency command post. � Israel has evacuated all its missions around the world. � The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta was evacuated. CDC was preparing bioterrorism teams in case they become necessary. � Philadelphia landmarks were also evacuated. � In Chicago, the Sears Tower was evacuated; United Nations in New York evacuated. � The New York Port Authority said it had closed all bridges and tunnels into the city. � U.S. stock markets were closed after the New York attacks. � NATO sent home all non-essential personnel from its Brussels, Belgium, headquarters. � Border between the United States and Mexico closed.

Nation: United plane crashes near Pittsburgh; 3 other flights missing The Associated Press PITTSBURGH (September 11, 2001 11:59 a.m. EDT) - A United Airlines plane crashed Tuesday morning just north of the Somerset County Airport. United said it was also "deeply concerned" about another plane, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles. American Airlines said Tuesday it had lost two planes with a total 156 people aboard, Agence-France Presse reported. The United Boeing 757 was enroute from Newark, N.J. to San Francisco. The United plane crashed about 10 a.m. about 8 miles east of Jennerstown, according to county 911 dispatchers, WPXI-TV in Pittsburgh reported. "It shook the whole station," said Bruce Grine, owner of Grine's Service Center in Shanksville, about two and one-half miles from the crash. "Everybody ran outside, and by that time the fire whistle was blowing." United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did say how many people were aboard the flight. On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: "The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved. "United is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights," he said. The Somerset County airport, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, in a small, rural facility that does not handle such aircraft. Because of the attacks, the Federal Aviation Administration had ordered all departing flights canceled nationwide, and any planes already in the air were to land a the nearest airport. The plane crashed shortly after the order was issued. The crash came the same morning that terrorists crashed two planes into the World Trade Center in New York City and the twin 110-story towers collapsed. A plane also hit the Pentagon in Washington

By BETH GARDINER, Associated Press LONDON (September 11, 2001 12:02 p.m. EDT) - Terrorist strikes in the United States quickly reached a global audience Tuesday, with leaders around the world watching live coverage of an aircraft hitting the World Trade Center. Audiences were transfixed by the awful images from New York, where both World Trade Center towers collapsed. Key indexes sank on world stock markets and some European airlines canceled flights to the United States and recalled planes already in the air. Russian President Vladimir Putin expressed his condolences to the American people over the terrorist attacks, calling the "terrible tragedies," the Kremlin press service said. "This mass terrorism is the new evil in our world today," said Prime Minister Tony Blair, who canceled a speech at a trade union conference. "It is perpetrated by fanatics who are utterly indifferent to the sanctity of human life, and we the democracies of this world are going to have to come together and fight it together." President Jacques Chirac of France, in a nationally televised statement, called the attacks in the United States "monstrous" and expressed his solidarity with the American people. "France has just learned of these monstrous attacks, there is no other word for it, that have hit America," Chirac said from Rennes, in the western region of Brittany. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and his top aides followed the events at his seaside office in Gaza City, gathered around a TV set. "I send my condolences to the president, the government and the people for this terrible incident," Arafat said. "We are completely shocked. It's unbelievable." In Berlin, Foreign Ministry officials huddled in a crisis meeting, and Parliament's vice speaker Anke Fuchs told lawmakers a "terrible catastrophe" had happened. Virtually all German TV channels switched to live coverage. "This is pure mass murder," one commentator said. Scandinavian Airlines System, SAS, rerouted three airplanes bound for New York and one for Washington from Norway, Denmark and Sweden. Flights to the United States were suspended from Portugal, and the Belgian airline recalled two flights on the way to the United States, diverted others to Canada and canceled all planned flights to the United States. In Thailand, Suranand Vejjajiva, a spokesman for the office of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said they were watching the news in disbelief. A spokesman for Philippine President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo said: "The president has been monitoring the events since an hour ago and she condemns what is obviously the worst terrorist attack on a leader of civilized society." Broadcasters around the world broke into programming to show images of the disaster. "It's incredible. I thought I was watching a Hollywood movie," said Hong Kong school teacher Doris Tang.

Agence France-Presse MOSCOW (September 11, 2001 12:15 p.m. EDT) - Russian President Vladimir Putin told President Bush on Tuesday that the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington "must not go unpunished", the Interfax news agency reported. "The series of barbaric acts directed against innocent people fills us with indignation and revolt," said Putin in a telegram to Bush. "Such inhuman acts must not go unpunished," he said.

(September 11, 2001 11:18 a.m. EDT) - Timeline of U.S. Attacks - Plane crashes into tower of World Trade Center in lower Manhattan, shortly before 9 a.m. Eastern. - Second plane crashes into the second tower of the World Trade Center, shortly after 9 a.m. Eastern. - President Bush, in Sarasota, Florida, calls the crashes "an apparent terrorist attack" and a "national tragedy." - An aircraft crashes near Pentagon, just outside of Washington D-C, in Northern Virginia, about an hour after the attacks in New York. - Government buildings in Washington, including the Capitol and the White House, are evacuated with officials citing a credible threat of a terrorist attack. - The Federal Aviation Administration shuts down all aircraft takeoffs nationwide. - Shortly after 10 a.m. Eastern, one World Trade Center tower in New York collapses, about an hour after being hit by plane. - American Airlines says one of the planes that crashed into the Trade Center was American Airlines Flight 11, hijacked after takeoff from Boston en route to Los Angeles. - Senior law enforcement officials say car bomb explodes outside of State Department in Washington, D-C. Federal protective services later denies car bomb attack occurred. - Financial markets suspend trading in the wake of the attacks. - Officials at Somerset County Airport say a large plane crashes in western Pennsylvania, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, at about 10:00 a.m. - The second tower of the World Trade Center collapses at 10:28 a.m. Eastern. - Fourth explosion rocks the collapsed remains of the World Trade Center, at about 10:38 a.m. - Authorities across the country go on alert, tightening security at strategic facilities and evacuating high-profile buildings. U.S. monuments and museums in Washington DC are closed. - Securities and Exchange Commission says all financial markets are closed for the day.

Dan Rather reports Bush is going to make a statement from an Air Force Base in Louisiana in a few minutes.

All 4 flights that crashed were apparently bound for California. When did the airlines first realize that something was wrong? The plane from Boston that crashed into the WTC was bound for Los Angeles. Topic 1180 [current]: Terrorist attack on the World Trade Center #199 of 199: Jerry (jmcarlin) Tue Sep 11 '01 (09:47) 6 lines CNN says 4 plans lost/missing: 2 American and 2 united. They said that they *think* that one of them might be one that hit the Pentagon. CNN is also reporting that bin Laden is increasingly being blamed.

Salon confirms military is at Delta. http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/11/bombings/index.html There is no higher military alert than Delta.

I'm on Long Island, 40 miles east of the city...was at work when this happened. several of my friends work in NYC, one of them in 7 World Trade, a building next to tower 2. i'm so scared right now... how could anyone do something like this?! 10K people work(ed) in each of those towers, not counting the tourists, people on the streets, etc. i feel sick.

I hope your friends are ok Liz.

People have been comparing this to Pearl Harbor. Most of us were not born at the time of that event. The feeling today's events conjures in me is the fear I lived through in 1962 during the Cuban missile crisis. At that time, only one man stood between us and WWIII. If we could trace these attacks to one country, we would now be at war. And I doubt that even JFK could prevent it.

Incidentally, 45-50 thousand people work in the two WTC buildings...not 10K.

unidentified source: Friend of mine in Scotland, who is monitoring a lot of news feeds and has a bunch of friends in US military bases, is giving me info that I can't find _anywhere_ else- he claims that 12 (!) planes are still en route to the US, not all over the Atlantic, and that are not responding to hails. Anyone know anything about this?

Incidentally, 45-50 thousand people work in the two WTC buildings...not 10K.

I think I heard somewhere that 55,000 or so were killed in the Vietnam war, the toll here is going to be horrorific.

yes, charlotte..what I meant was 10K per tower in just the offices, minimum capacity. full capacity is closer to 20-25K per tower. it doesn't matter the toll; one life is too much. thanks, terry. I'm praying for all who have friends or relatives in downtown.

Colin Powell said: "A great tragedy has struck our country and it will not affect the nature of our society,'' he said. ``We'll find out who's responsible for this and bring them to justice.''

Agreed, Liz. Sorry I misunderstood. Also sorry my post appeared twice. Must have been cause I "refresh"-ed. Terry, thank you for making this site available when it is impossible to get news elsewhere.

Yes, Terry, thanks for the email about the topic ..I'm in the UK, we turned on the TV just after the first plane hit and have been following the news since. Our prayers and thoughts are with all those concerned and I hope that my friends on Spring get good news about people they know. In the City of London the Stock Exchange closed, and several major buildings were evacuated and the City closed. All US banks and institutions here are on high alert. There were reports an hour or so ago about another plane crash in Pittsburg which appeared to be related. Also a report of another hijack plane heading for Washington ..... sorry I don't have any details ...anyone else have any news??

In Hawaii, on the Bis Island, all schools are closed as is the airport (throughout the state, actually). On Oahu, all military personnel are to report to their stations, Pearl Harbor all ships staffed. Arizona Memorial closed. This is ghastly. Beyond anything Hollywood could dream up. Be calm, stay home, donate blood if you can, (even call for it here) and PRAY. Thanks Terry!

There's news of this above in this topic. The other hijacked plane went down, it was the same plane that went down in Pittsburgh. �I JUST SAW the building I work in come down,� said businessman Gabriel Ioan, shaking in shock outside City Hall a cloud of smoke and ash from the World Trade Center behind him. �I just saw the top of Trade Two come down.� MSNBC.com producer Steve Johnson, standing about six blocks from the towers in lower Manhattan, was also an eyewitness to the collapse. �About five minutes before the tower fell you could see people jumping from the upper floors. I watched six either fall or jump ... The police rolled up [in] vans. Suddenly the top of [the tower] just shattered into tens of thousands of pieces. You could see the walls peel away. The whole thing just disappeared. Then the smoke came up. The cops started yelling, �Get back! Run! Get away!� I ran inside a hotel, and it went black outside because of the dust.� Nearby a crowd mobbed a man on a pay phone, screaming at him to get off the phone so that they could call relatives. Dust and dirt flew everywhere. Ash was 2 to 3 inches deep in places. People wandered dazed and terrified. �I was in the World Financial Center looking out the window,� said one woman. �I saw the first plane and then 15 minutes later saw the other plane just slam into the World Trade Center.� Firefighter Jimmy Grillo, with Ladder 24, had blood running down his face from an injury to his nose. Grillo was in the lobby of the World Trade Center after the first blast and when the second blast came, he was trapped in the debris. �We crawled in the debris toward the light�. There�s a bunch of guys still trapped in there,� Grillo told MSNBC.com�s Johnson. �PEOPLE SCREAMING ... DIVING FOR COVER� Another eyewitness, AP newsman Dunstan Prial, described a strange sucking sound from the Trade Center buildings after the first building collapsed. �Windows shattered. People were screaming and diving for cover. People walked around like ghosts, covered in dirt, weeping and wandering dazed.� �It sounded like a jet or rocket,� said Eddie Gonzalez, a postal worker at a post office on West Broadway. �I looked up and saw a huge explosion. I didn�t see the impact. I just saw the explosion.� Morning commuters heading into Manhattan were stranded as the Lincoln Tunnel was shut down to incoming traffic. Many left their cars and stood on the ramp leading to the tunnel, staring in disbelief at the thick cloud of smoke pouring from the top of the two buildings. On the streets of Manhattan, people stood in groups talking quietly or watching on television at ground-level network studios. Terror attack on the U.S. � Main story � MSNBC's Wolk: On the scene in Manhattan � Witnesses describe terror in the towers � World reacts with horror � Markets, airports, U.S. border shut after terror � Newsweek: An icon destroyed � Exodus in Washington � Live video coverage � Discuss the attacks on MSNBC's bulletin board Joan Goldstein, communications project leader for The Associated Press, was on a bus from New Jersey at about 8:50 a.m. when she saw �smoke pouring out of the World Trade Center building. We said, �Oh, my God! The World Trade Center�s on fire!� Perhaps 10 minutes later, �All of a sudden, there was an orange plume, a huge explosion. It shot out the back of the building. Everybody on the bus was just moaning and gasping,� said Goldstein, who wept and trembled as she spoke. The plume was from the second plane, but she didn�t see the plane because of the thick smoke. She tried to call friends who work there, but couldn�t get through. �It was the most horrible thing I�ve ever seen in my life,� said Goldstein. GIVING BLOOD At St. Vincent�s hospital in Greenwich Village, people waited in long lines to give blood. They were taken according to blood type. Hundreds of donors � perhaps as many as a thousand � looked like a tapestry of New York citizenry. �There are all kinds of people � young and old, black and white, students and professionals waiting to give blood,� said Harry Barandes, a graduate student at New York University. Ambulances continued to arrive intermittently. The shock on people�s faces was shaken free only by the sirens that blared in the background. Meanwhile, volunteers wandered among those waiting in line, asking if anyone was hungry or thirsty. �There are really kind citizens passing out food and water,� said Barandes. �The outpouring of goodwill is amazing.� Further from the disaster scene in upper Manhattan signs went up that blood drives had begun. SURREAL SCENE, EERY CALM �There�s a huge smell of char in the air. People are walking with masks, with their shirts off. People trying to get out [of the area] any way. People are crying, watching in disbelief. [It�s] total shock.� � MICHELLE PRELI MSNBC.com producer In Brooklyn, across the East River from Manhattan, �the situation is chaos,� MSNBC.com producer Michelle Preli reported. �The Manhattan Bridge and Brooklyn Bridge are just full of people covered in white ash. There�s a huge smell of char in the air. People are walking with masks, with their shirts off. People trying to get out [of the area] any way. People are crying, watching in disbelief. [It�s] total shock. It seems all the medical units, ambulances fire services from Brooklyn [have been called in].� Although the city itself is in shock, it hasn�t really reached uptown Manhattan yet. On the Upper West Side, where you could see police helicopters standing in the sky like sentinels along the Hudson River, it is all eerily calm. �There are people eating in the restaurants,� said Andras Szanto, a staff member at Columbia University. �It is a glorious sunny day � after a rainstorm of biblical proportions last night � and this perfect fall day makes it even more surreal. �At first sight everything seems normal,� Szanto continued. �Then you notice strangers hudddled around radios, students gazing at TVs in the cafes, lines at the bank for cash.� A sign on a Starbucks coffee shop says, �Due to the terrorist attack we are closed today.� �A homeless man is reciting the list of the day�s unspeakable horrors,� said Szanto. �There are small strange differences that translate the larger horror into minute changes: For the first time, for example, the majestic gates [protecting the campus] of Columbia University have been closed shut.� CROWDS STREAMING ON FOOT �The mass of the city, this huge population, had to get out of the city and they seemed to be doing it very matter of factly.� � PRELI Five hour after the towers collapsed people were still streaming on foot across all levels of the Manhattan Bridge as they left the disaster area. �What was most amazing was how calm people were,� said MSNBC.com�s Preli, who had been in her car just blocks from the disaster as splinters of debris rained down looking oddly like confetti. �Maybe everyone was just in shock. But the mass of the city, this huge population, had to get out of the city and they seemed to be doing it very matter of factly.� The Associated Press contributed to this report.

German stock exchange threatened by bomb attack. They are closing.

�THERE HAVE BEEN the most terrible, shocking events taking place in the United States of America within the last couple of hours,� British Prime Minister Tony Blair told union leaders in Brighton, southern England. �We can only imagine the terror and carnage there and the many, many innocent people who have lost their lives.� Blair, who had been due to deliver a key policy speech, cut short his visit and said he wanted to return immediately to London to monitor the unfolding events. He sent his deepest condolences to Bush and the people of America.

�This mass terrorism is the new evil in our world today. It is perpetrated by fanatics who are utterly indifferent to the sanctity of life,� he said. Russian President Vladimir Putin described the attack as a terrible tragedy, according to Kremlin spokesman Alexei Gromov, and convened a special meeting of his defense and security officials. Putin also offered his condolence to the United States. France�s president, Jacques Chirac, in a live televised address, condemned the attacks and expressed his solidarity with the American people. Advertisement �France has just learned of these monstrous attacks � there is no other word for it � that have hit America,� Chirac said from Rennes, in the western region of Brittany. In Berlin, Foreign Ministry officials huddled in a crisis meeting, and Parliament�s vice speaker, Anke Fuchs, told lawmakers a �terrible catastrophe� had happened. Virtually all German TV channels switched to live coverage. �This is pure mass murder,� one commentator said. German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder convened an unprecedented meeting of his security council, and air traffic authorities said all European flights to the United States had been suspended. The council meets rarely and is the government�s main body in times of crisis. Besides Schroeder, it includes the foreign, defense and interior ministers and several others. MIDEAST REACTS Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and his top aides followed the events at his seaside office in Gaza City, gathered around a TV set. �We completely condemn this serious operation. ... We were completely shocked. It�s unbelievable, unbelievable, unbelievable.� An anonymous caller told Abu Dhabi television earlier on Tuesday that a radical Palestinian group was responsible for the attacks, but the group later denied any involvement. Israeli Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer told Israel�s Army Radio it was �simply a tragedy.�

The Pittsburgh plane crash is the one they believe was also headed for Washington DC, with some speculating that it might have either the Capitol (building) or White House as its target. How they could come to that, I'll never know. Two planes were targeted at the WTC (one at each tower). The Pentagon is an enormous building (sq ft-wise). All the planes (4) had California as their destination which would give them the maximum amount of fuel any aircraft would have onboard.

Hi, just heard that a passenger from the PA crash had a cell phone in the bathroom and reported that they were being hijacked..."this is not a hoax". guess not. Also heard that there were 6-8 planes in the air that would be allowed to land at the Nashville airport. My daughter's fiance's sister is an intern at St. Vincents. She is alive. Just heard that there were over 100 victims there, 2 dead, but I had heard earlier that the vestibule was stacked with fatal burn victims. Hope that was a rumor. love,Eliz

All the German and European people want to express their condolence to the people of the United States! Our prayers are with the victims and their families! God bless you! Your Tobias

From the eyewitness reports on the BBC it appears that the second plane flew slowly and directly into the south tower of the WTC. Its likely that the terrorists flew the planes. CNN is talking about the lead time that air traffic controllers had that the planes were off course. One made a sharp turn at Albany and headed south. They are also talking about the tapes of the controllers trying to talk to the planes. Just speculation right now - the tapes are not yet available.

My thoughts and prayers are with those whose families are affected by these tragedies. All German TV channels do reports now. Something however disturbs me in some way: in the first chapter of Tom Clancy's novel "Executive Orders" a plane crashes into the capitol and kills everyone inside. Seems like the wrong people read that book.... BlackB

BlackB, I've had the same thoughts about giving the truly warped mentally bad ideas for their terrorism in books and movies. FCC, federal agencies shut down after terrorist attacks Along with most other federal agencies, the FCC has closed its offices and sent its employees home in the wake of apparent terrorist attacks this morning in New York City, Washington, DC, and elsewhere. The FCC has issued no emergency declaration nor other special instructions to the Amateur Radio community. The ARRL has advised amateurs to stay alert to instructions from local authorities. President George W. Bush has announced that the US military is on high alert in the US and abroad. US air traffic was shut down after two airliners struck the twin towers of the 110-story World Trade Center in New York City this morning within a short time of each other. The building's towers partially collapsed in the wake of the collisions. An aircraft subsequently crashed into the Pentagon, and another aircraft crashed near Pittsburgh, reportedly after being hijacked. American Airlines and United Airlines both have acknowledged that they have lost planes this morning. More than 260 died in the crashes. Thousands were believed injured in New York City; there's no estimate on the number killed. New York City-Long Island Section Emergency Coordinator Tom Carrubba, KA2D, said there has been no request for any Amateur Radio Emergency Service response at this time, although hams have been requested to assist the American Red Cross. New York City's emergency management offices are located in the World Trade Center. He said he was alerting all amateurs, especially ARES and Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Service personnel, to get prepared and to stand by. Carrubba said he's in the process of setting up a command channel on a linked repeater system that will cover the area from New York City into Long Island's Suffolk County. Kenneth Goetz, N2SQW, reports New York State RACES is operational on 3.993.5 and 7.248 MHz handling emergency and governmental-type traffic. He asked amateurs to avoid these frequencies. In the Washington, DC, area, Virginia SEC Tom Gregory, N4NW, says Virginia ARES has been put on alert but has not yet been activated. ''I've asked everyone to monitor the emergency frequencies and to keep a full tank of gas.'' He said the attack on Washington has resulted in a massive traffic jam as workers in DC attempt to leave the capital; cellular telephone communication was next-to-impossible. While no emergency nets are in operation yet, Gregory said all repeaters would be available as well as 7.243 MHz and 3.947 MHz on HF. Virginia RACES reportedly has been activated at the state emergency operations center at Virginia State Police headquarters in Richmond as a precautionary measure. The FCC's Riley Hollingsworth today suggested that the amateur community remain calm but ready. He invited amateurs monitoring any suspicious radio activity to contact him, and he will relay relevant information to the FCC duty team. He advised monitors to tape such radio traffic, if possible. Should a state of war be declared, Amateur Radio would not automatically be shut down. This requirement was eliminated prior to the Gulf War.

first chapter of Tom Clancy's novel "Executive Orders" The kamikaze plane attack on the Capitol Building was the plot of the book before that one: Debt of Honor. The pilot was part of the plan, which took out the entire government. You don't need eyewitness reports on BBC. The second plane attacking the WTC is on video on every news channel. You could probably have watched it live, just as you could watch both towers crumble. It is very likely the terrorists took over flying the planes as no US pilot - even with a gun pointed at his/her head - would steer into any occupied building.

Karen: my Mom mentioned the book this morning. Ominous. I cannot explain my grief and sadness. My thoughts are with all those people, so, so many lives that are forever changed. I can't get out of my head that some people actually saw the horrified faces of those passengers in those hijacked planes - waiting to die in vain. And all those people who went to work and never came back. God bless us all.

I'm in Atlanta. The area around CNN Center which is in downtown Atlanta, has been sealed off and all public access to CNN Center itself has been stopped. I guess as lots of the the world gets it global/US news coverage news via CNN, it is a facility the authorities don't want messed with. All malls, schools and universities here etc are closed. At 3pm Eastern, 10-12 international flights are still in-bound to the US and have been given clearance to land. They are all from the Pacific Rim countries in bound to West Coast Cities.

President Bush just landed at Straegic Airforce Command in Nebraska. So it appears the President and his advisors, are not going to orchestrate a response to this catastrophe from the White House.

German TV Broadcasting stopped for 15 Minutes!!! " A moment of silence for our Brothers and Sisters in the USA!!!"

Inbound planes from the Orient are being allowd to land in Honolulu if they have gone beyond the point of no return, but with a fighter escort from Hickam AF Base. Nothing is outbound. Even the tour planes are grounded. Nothing is in the air!

More stuff about the cellphone call, from an AP News story: "An emergency dispatcher in Westmoreland County, Pa., received a cell phone call at 9:58 a.m. from a man who said he was a passenger locked in the bathroom of United Flight 93, said dispatch supervisor Glenn Cramer. "We are being hijacked, we are being hijacked!" Cramer quoted the man as saying. The man told dispatchers the plane "was going down. He heard some sort of explosion and saw white smoke coming from the plane and we lost contact with him," Cramer said."

So it appears the President and his advisors, are not going to orchestrate a response to this catastrophe from the White House. No. The book on these types of situations calls for moving the president, et al, around to *secure* locations. Unfortunately, our wonderfully free press is publicizing all the known locations for government backup ops. Why don't they just give the addresses?

The airports are closed until noon tomorrow BTW.

Thanks Tobias and all who have expressed condolences. Actually we are all one little world. We need to relearn the art of getting along on a tiny planet. This American appreciates your concern very much!

Why don't they just give the addresses? I know! Geez, here they are saying he's in a secret location, in NEBRASKA??? hello???? They evacuated all of Boston today. The one question I ask, that no one an answer is HOW THE HELL DID HIJACKERS GET PAST SECURITY AT LOGAN????????????? (Makes one wonder about the security personnel at the airport now?)

Karen, exactly so. The set the plane down and suddenly we all knew exactly where he was! I hate that!!! The media needs to learn some responsibility!

stratfor.com: The Intelligence Failure 1745 GMT, 010911 By George Friedman As of this moment, what is clear is that a substantial number of civilian aircraft were hijacked this morning by pilots with sufficient ability to maneuver those multi-engine aircraft into collisions with major buildings. The flights originated at a number of airports. Each incident required the presence of at least one and probably more hijackers, each prepared to die in the attack. Mounting an attack of this sort is not simple. In the case of the World Trade Center, the collapse of the towers indicates massive delayed explosions. This means either the planes were loaded with explosives or that massive explosive charges were planted in the buildings to go off later. This is supposition, but a secondary explosion is a necessary factor for explaining the collapse. This means many individuals had to be involved in the operation. There had to be a coordinated effort spanning several continents, timed to occur at roughly the same time. At best guess, dozens of people had to be involved. Messages had to flow, coded or otherwise. Yet no human intelligence sources appear to have been among or near the conspirators. No significant messages were intercepted or decoded. For U.S. intelligence to have missed an operation of this magnitude indicates one of two things. First, the competence of U.S. intelligence is overrated or the willingness of policymakers to heed warnings has declined. In either case, the system is badly broken. Alternatively, the sophistication of terrorist counter-intelligence has improved to such an extent that the prior level of expertise bought to bear is simply no longer sufficient. Whether we are facing a decline in U.S. intelligence capability or an increase in counter-intelligence blocking the United States, Sept. 11, 2001, will go down as one of the major intelligence failures in U.S. history. George Friedman is the founder and chariman of STRATFOR.

From salon.com Sam Skinner, former transportation secretary under George Bush Sr., directed a "security enhancement task force" after Pan-Am flight 103 was shot down in 1988 over Lockerbie, Scotland, killing 270 people. I'm looking back on my experience after Pan Am flight 103. We created offices for security in several departments and we enhanced the methods at every airport, so I'm very, very surprised that they were able to accomplish this. The fact that they could get through three airports on four flights without anyone picking it up, shows that this was a very well-organized attack -- probably with some inside help. We've concentrated most of our time and energy on international aircraft. We focused on that threat because they may have been coming in from international airports where security was lax, or going to international locations, in which it would be easier to hide people who would profile as terrorists. So the fact that four domestic flights were hijacked is entirely shocking. I don't know of any scenario that allowed for this. This is not an amateur performance. It must have had support from strong organizations or governments. You would have had to have at least four inside people, at airports with access to planes with full fuel loads. You'd have to have them plant weapons at the same moment without being detected. And I find it hard to believe that any American pilot would deliberately fly into the building, so I also have to assume that they managed to get an experienced pilot on board. The timing of it is also amazing. All the planes were close to their targets but the crashes occurred at around the same time. This was very well-executed, and as a result, security measures as we know them today will be enhanced substantially. What that will be is too early to tell. But there will a lot of money spent on devices; I also think there will a higher scrutiny of employees and of cargo. You can get pretty draconian, and I think we'll see that whole new level of scrutiny. This is different than what we've ever seen in the past. This isn't just blowing up airplanes, this is using airplanes as a tool of death.

Covering the Attack An Eyewitness Speaks By Ed Hashey Special to Poynter.org [Editor's note: Ed Hashey is a member of Poynter's visiting visual journalism faculty and an affiliate of Mario Garcia New Media Group.] I keep playing this back in my head. It just did not seem real, nor would I ever have imagined such a series of events happening this morning. It is true: Everything seemed to be in slow motion. I arrived here Sunday night with my wife. She was going to spend the whole week with me for my birthday. I reported to work yesterday as a consultant at The Wall Street Journal. Monday we just came up with the work load for the next few weeks. I came back to the hotel at midtown Manhattan, had dinner with my wife, Jeanne, where we discussed our day's events and plans for tomorrow. Jeanne said she want to come in with me to the downtown area on Tuesday morning and visit the top of the World Trade Center. She found a two-dollar discount coupon. The next morning we both ate breakfast and my wife decided she was not feeling well enough to join me this morning. So I left for work this morning at 8 a.m. I got on the number 9 train from Times Square, and read a chapter in my book. Before you knew it, it was 8:40 a.m. and I was at the World Trade Center station at Cortland Street. I got off the train, walked up to the street exit, and right as I saw daylight, I heard a huge explosion and then many pieces of metal debris, some the size of car hoods, were falling all around me and a very large crowd of people. We all responded by trying to go back in the train station exit, but there were too many people trying to exit, and so we all squeezed against the side of the World Trade Center. After a while, the debris stopped falling. We crossed Liberty street, and looked up and saw the first tower engulfed in flames. Eyewitnesses said a plane had crashed into the building high up. Then to my horror, I started seeing people jump to their deaths. As each person fell, I started praying. Many people fell, and we were not sure where to go or what to do. Then a loud noise of an aircraft became apparent, and I remember seeing a large airline jet smash into the next tower, followed by many flaming pieces falling all around us and many people being struck by debris and burning wreckage. I ran into an entryway of the building across the street and saw debris take out windows. A large crowd of pedestrians outside was hit as they were on their way to work. At that point the police ordered a mass evacuation, and I remember thinking this was a terrorist act. It was just too coincidental too be anything else. I decided to just start running north up Broadway. By the time I reached Chambers Street, I kept trying phones to call my wife and say I was OK, but nothing was working, all circuits busy, my cell phone did not work. So I just got on a train and ran to my hotel room. My wife was in tears, and I was shaking like a leaf. I as still shaking and very sad, then I witnessed the towers falling on the news channel, and I just stood there in disbelief. I am sad, angry, nervous, happy to be alive, but humbled by others' deaths today. I can't stop seeing the visions of bodies falling. I still pray for their families, but the world will never be the same again. I'm very sorry to be writing this.

UK news is saying that the US President has gone to Nebraska because that's HQ when the USA is on a war footing. To all my old friends in the US, and the new ones I've made here on Spring recently, my thoughts and prayers are with you on this dreadful day. Take care, all of you.

HOW THE HELL DID HIJACKERS GET PAST SECURITY AT LOGAN????????????? Well, considering these were domestic flights, I suspect that security is a little more lax. I remember listening to an NPR story not too long ago about how airport security employees have such a high turn-around, and most aren't unionized.... I'm in LA where things are eerily quiet. Schools are still in session, but they've cancelled a lot of events tonight (the Madonna concert, Latin Grammys, MLB games, etc..). Some production studios (the major ones anyway) have also shut down for the day. I'm trying to get work done, but it's just too difficult.

Alas, Babylon... Maryland has been declared a state of emergency. The military post S. works on is at its highest security level, there are massive amounts of agent stored there. Schools, colleges, programs, everything is closed. Hospitals have canceled all elective surgeries to stay ready for victims. I was in D.C. on Monday, sight-seeing with my aunt from Dallas. She tried to call us all afternoon, but there were no available circuits until 3:30. It is so quiet--there's not a car on the road (everyone's watching TV I guess) or a plane in the sky. Weird. I can't even process it all yet.

pastebomb alert -- bruces *8-( that peculiar parade-going-in-the-wrong-direction has passed ... maybe we'll find out what that was, at some point ... people are now out of their offices for lunchtime, still almost no traffic, but the shops are open and people are hanging out watching the clouds of smoke ... the view towards the south is unimaginable ... much more jet activity ... -Ken ______________________________________________ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.openoffice.de/mailman/listinfo/spectre NYC, Fifth Avenue & 19th St. ... people are walking in large crowds in the middle of Fifth Ave., heading south, as if in a parade. Many more have been standing, looking south, for hours now, as if waiting for something else to happen. It's just clouds of smoke now where the WTC used to be... Some people have radios, portable tvs. Few people's cell phones are working. Apart from the downed antennae, the circuits are just jammed, regular phones are jammed, too. The only traffic seems to be ambulances. Apart from the sirens, it is eerily quiet for midday ... fighter jets are flying overhead now ... -Ken ______________________________________________ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.openoffice.de/mailman/listinfo/spectre another meaning for spectre.... Pandemonium envelops reporters incapable of expressing much more than shock. The highways in lower Manhattan are loaded with an exodus of refugees escaping downtown. Electricity has been shut don in lower Manhattan. Airports are in chaos. Everything has a surreal siege status. No official word other than a short statement from Bush early this morning. His plane from Florida will not go to Washington where Chaney is "in charge" at the White House. more soon, Tim ______________________________________________ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.openoffice.de/mailman/listinfo/spectre i can just report, that here at ZKM in karlsruhe we are also totally shocked, following the news on German tv and CNN for hours and don't know really what to say as angst is emerging of the events. what will happen now? will this event to exponentiate the use of terror between south and north, between east and west? most embarassing seems the clean, totally emotion-less face of G.W. Bush. cannot believe that this is an eqiuvalent reaction of his. (is he in drugs?) best to all, anke ______________________________________________ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.openoffice.de/mailman/listinfo/spectre ______________________________________________ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.openoffice.de/mailman/listinfo/spectre The national guard has been called up in NYC -- Its like a war zone, they are predicting the death toll as being in the thousands -- 40,000 people work in the two towers and were in the process of arriving for work when the first plane struck -- I witnessed the collapse of the second tower, from a roof about a half mile away-- the city is shut down -- there are still three or 4 more planes unaccounted for -- the pentagon was also attacked and severely damaged -- with large lost of life-- a plane was brought down near camp David -- I placed part of the blame for this turn of events on the Bush administration's failure to intervene in Palestine, his failure to send observers and his failure to condemn Israel's policy of assination against Palestine leaders. This is truly a horror. Saul ______________________________________________ SPECTRE list for media culture in Deep Europe Info, archive and help: http://post.openoffice.de/mailman/listinfo/spectre . y

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ bruce -- i'm putting together a piece for tomorrow's paper on how the internet reacted/helped/hurt in the face of this disaster. i need help. if you see or hear anything that would feed into this story, please let me know. if you've got anything to say, please give me a quote. i am working out of my home. 540 347 1960. garreau@well.com or garreauj@washpost.com. i'll need to start writing 4-ish eastern time, although i can push later than that for good stuff. please pass the word to anybody else who can help. thanx. joel Joel Garreau The Washington Post 202 334 6269 voice 202 334 5587 fax garreauj@washpost.com "But I keep hitting these typewriter keys. What a magician is the subconscious. If only it would work regular hours." -- Raymond Chandler, "The Long Goodbye" 21ST CENTURY DETERRENCE AND TODAY'S ATTACKS Washington, D.C., September 11/PRNEWSWIRE/ -- Responding to today's attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Robert David Steele, author of ON INTELLIGENCE: Spies and Secrecy in an Open World (AFCEA, 2000), said: "The tragedy of today's coordinated attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon--with other targets expected shortly--must be regarded as the Pearl Harbor of the 21st Century. Our national leaders have wasted ten years since the end of the Cold War, failing to understand that it is instability, poverty, oppression, disease, and cultural conflict that require the USA to expend billions of dollars on stabilizing and nurturing the Whole Earth." Mr. Steele goes on to note, ""As Robert McNamara and others have pointed out, 'at least two thirds of the world's people--Chinese, Russian, Indians, Muslims, and Africans'--see the United States as the single greatest threat to their societies, because of our 'intrusive, interventionist, exploitative, unilateralist, hegemonic, hypocritical practices' of 'economic imperialism' and 'intellectual colonialism'." The capitalist party is over. It is time to give Colin Powell what he needs to save the world--only by saving the world can we save America." On this occasion Steele and Professor Stephen Cimbala have re-released their earlier warning on the need for a new concept of deterrence in the 21st Century. Their joint communiqu can be downloaded quickly (539 words) from http://www.oss.net/Papers/white/TodaysAttacks.doc. Mr. Steele concludes: "America is the greatest country in the world, but we have lost sight of our moral foundations, failed to listen to our great strategists Zbigniew Brzezinski and Stephen Metz, and completely closed down the U.S. Department of State and our foreign assistance endeavors. It is time for a Global Marshal Plan that respects the fact that the Whole Earth is a closed system; that does not trivialize today's attacks as terrorist events; and that wakes up to the fact that money cannot buy security in a world where asymmetric power is now in the hands of the people that we have been ignoring and sidelining for over a century." Mr. Steele is available for telephone interviews at (703) 242-1700. His high-resolution photograph can be downloaded from http://www.oss.net/Papers/white/AuthorPhoto.gif. Various white papers on the 21st Century threat and what to do about it are at http://www.oss.net/White.html. SOURCE: Open Source Solutions, Inc. -0- 09/11/2001 /CONTACT: Robert Steele, OSS CEO, 703-242-1700, or bear@oss.net/ /Web site: www.oss.net

Ted Olsen's wife Barbara, ironically, was on the plane that crashed into the Pentagon. ABC News reported that a KAL airliner had been "forced down" and boarded by the military in Canada - not sure when. Barbara Olsen was able to contact her husband by cell phone, and reported that all the passengers had been herded to the rear of the aircraft.

Apparently its being suggested now that the 4th plane, that crashed near Pittsburgh, was intercepted and brought down by US forces after it failed to respond to air traffic control and refused to identify itself, and it was on a heading for Camp David - am in UK but have just had this from a friend in Chicago - does anyone know if this is true?

Bush is at Offutt AFB in Omaha, home of the Strategic Air Command. Boston has not been evacuated. Logan Airport has been closed and people have been asked to leave. The only aircraft flying over Boston today are delta-wing military aircraft, perhaps an F-15 or F-16. I'm gonna guess that the hijackers somehow disabled the crew, perhaps with gas, which would be easy enough to get through security, and then took over the controls of the plane. This is just my own personal speculation. I expect our nation will now enter a phase of crisis fatigue.

Apparently its being suggested now that the 4th plane, that crashed near Pittsburgh, was intercepted and brought down by US forces after it failed to respond to air traffic control and refused to identify itself, and it was on a heading for Camp David - am in UK but have just had this from a friend in Chicago - does anyone know if this is true?

I have heard no reliable reports of how the fourth plane went down near Pittsburgh, but it's possible that it was forced down by an interceptor, as this plane was on a considerably later timetable than the first three. The military would have had time to respond.

A govt spokesperson has just refuted that rumor about shooting down the plane.

Rachael, all the info I've heard about the Pittsburgh plane has been unconfirmed, but I've also heard the same thing. Hopefully there will be more details later.

Terry, is your server on GMT?

Outside Omaha, Nebraska is the Strategic Air Command. Then there is Norad just outside of Colorado Springs. Been there. They don't welcome stangers!

from unidentified source: An attorney named Tom Humphries is being interviewed by Jennings now. He was on the 57th floor in one of the buildings--they cut into the interview in progress so I'm not sure which one--oh, it would have been the first building hit. 57th floor. Took him 45 minutes to get down the staircase. He said people were calm, and helping each other. Asked about whether there were lights, he said, "Last time there weren't, this time there were." (God. "Last time.") Only one stairwell was open, the others were blocked by smoke. The first building took some time before it imploded, and he thinks a large number of people got out. (The second building got hit later and collapsed sooner. I hope they were already evacuating after the first building was hit.) Jennings: "I must say I'm amazed how calm you are, after having been in the first bombing in 1993 and now this." Humphries chuckles briefly. "I'm happy to be here." Humphries says the evacuation down one narrow stairway was "a recipe for disaster" but everyone's calmness kept it from becoming one. He talked to someone from Tower 2, who was on the 88th floor. They started evacuating after Tower 1 was hit, and that person got out. He says, "I think the tragedy is, the police and fire people who were trying to help people were right under the building when that happened"--the collapse--"They were at ground zero." I think this simple interview has started to break through my wall of shock. Listening to a very calm man who was in the building and walked down 57 floors with thousands of heroically self-composed people describe that. I am, goddamnit, starting to believe this.

Terry, is your server on GMT?

Yeah, I need to fix that again. I keep setting it for CST and it reverts to GMT.

More unidentified reports: source a: Some terrorism experts are saying that the only ones who could pull this off are the CIA-trained fundamentalist terrorists in afganistan... we taught them to take down the local great satan -- the USSR -- and now they are turning their attention to the rilly rilly great satan. They do not have headquarters. they do not have known leaders. they are good with technology. They can organize. they are willing to die. they don't care if someone else takes the blame. This second hand from someone who is interviewing experts and pundits. source b: My guess is that the hijackers flew first class, maybe spent some time in the Red Carpet Club before boarding the flights, and didn't appear to be palestinian freedom fighters. Maybe Japanese businessmen if the announcement by the Japanese Red Army is accurate. And another report: BBC News reporting that a building close to the site of the WTC is at risk of collapse as a result of the towers collapsing.

Outside Omaha, Nebraska is the Strategic Air Command. Then there is Norad just outside of Colorado Springs. Been there. They don't welcome stangers!

They are identifying it as Building 7

BBC suggested that the hijackers were probably domestic passengers not international, ie boarded in the US, because passports aren't needed for internal flights (obviously)

This just in, in a day full of "this just in's" BBC News reporting that a building close to the site of the WTC is at risk of collapse as a result of the towers collapsing. So is NPR. BBC now reporting that the building is the 40 storey Sallmon Bros building. And that it has collpased now.

No other building has collapsed yet.

blood donor centres running low - all who can are urged to donate as a matter of urgency

The third building (#7) has collapsed. CNN just confirmed. Also says there are fears about another (#5). CNN is interviewing Tom Clancy now.

I don't know if you have seen this: Knives on Board (techstudies2000) Sep 11, 16:49 Tuesday Sept. 11, 2001; 4:35 p.m. EDT Flight Attendants Stabbed Aboard Twin Tower Kamikaze Plane A violent struggle with knife-wielding terrorists took place outside the cockpit of one of two hijacked planes before it slammed into the World Trade Center Tuesday morning, a flight attendant on board reported to American Airlines before her death. "A flight attendant on that plane was apparently able to call the American Airlines operations center to tell them that two flight attendants had been stabbed and that the perpetrators had broken into the flight deck," ABC Radio News reported. The plane was enroute from Boston to Los Angeles when it was commandeered by terrorists for its kamikaze mission.

That last building was 47 stories tall.

CNN is now showing some new closeup footage (from PAX TV) of the second plane hitting. What it shows is the plane going right into the building and possibly coming through the other side.

As to the Pittsburgh plane being brought down "intentionally"....I heard that its suspected target was Camp David and, that fighter jets took it down before it could reach its target. I have no problem understanding how these terrorists and their weapons, could get past airport security at Logan and Dulles, if their security is anything like it is here in Atlanta. Totally disinterested kids, poorly trained and motivated man the security check points here. It would take very little effort to "sneak" something past them. The security level at US airports here in the US is very, very, very minimal compared to that at European airports. In Europe, only passengers can enter the Departure Concourse and Lounges. You can not meet someone directly off a plane in Europe, the way you can over here. Also, in Europe you go thru many, many checkpoints and security before you get on your flight. I just wish to God, US airports were as fussy. Twoyearsago I flew from the US to Ireland via London, but I flew back via Glasgow. As I was sitting in the airport in Glasgow, waiting for my flight to Chicago,I was paged on the airport intercom to report back to the American Airlines desk. I was then grilled by the security forces for 2 hours in a tiny little room, which terrifed me witless. Apparantly, an Irish person entering the UK thru one airport and exiting thru another, raised a red flag on some security services computer and I was deemed a "terrorist threat". As the IRA was very active in the UK at the time, I did my best to understand that these were just people who were doing their job. After my nerves and heart rate returned to normal, I was actually kind of happy that the security forces were taking such "extreme" steps to ensure the safety of airline passengers. I would love to see US airports be equally vigilant. Sorry if I am waffleing....I'm just at a loss, like the rest of you, in trying to comprehend the horror of this carnage.

ABC's Claire Shipman reporting the President is on his way to Washington and will make a statement tonight; "We're told he's angry about what happened and very much wants to make a statement". Congressional leaders also returning from their safe haven, also will make statements. "There's apparently a real premium here in Washington among the leaders of presenting a face of business as usual," she says. The leadership has been warned of the risk but feels it's important to be in Washington. The President will be landing in D.C. where they feel the airspace is as safe as anywhere in the nation. Vice President Cheney will then be removed from the White House as a precaution, though the First Lady is expected to join her husband.

To: "Red Rock Eater News Service" Subject: [RRE]attack From: Phil Agre Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:58:22 -0700 Here are some more URL's relating to the attacks this morning. a backup site that generally works when cnn.com does not http://robots.cnn.com/ video of the second plane in New York high bandwidth: http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/091101plane1-large.html low bandwidth: http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/091101plane1-small.html people's stories http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAVZWE2IRC.html Hotline from the National Journal can be accessed today for free http://hotlinescoop.com/web/content/hotline.htm http://nationaljournal.com/pubs/hotline/extra/lastcall/ this site will register people who are safe http://do.millennium.berkeley.edu/ you can query this site to search for people http://do.millennium.berkeley.edu/find.php military analysis http://www.janes.com/ photos from Brooklyn of the buildings collapsing http://www.indigo23.com/ an architect discussing how the buildings collapsed http://home.actlab.utexas.edu/pipermail/discuss/2001-September/000226.html Engineers Shocked By Towers Collapse http://chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-010911kamin-towers.story

a great archive of World Trade Center stuff at

7 WT is the one that just collapsed. I was in that building just a few months ago, visiting my friend. He works (or worked...I don't know if he's ok yet...I hate this) for the city Office of Emergency Management. He took me into the "Bunker" where the command center was. it was built to withstand the blast of a nuclear bomb, a category 5 hurricane, and some other disasters. I don't think they ever thought that tower 1 would collapse onto it. they have cut us off on Long Island. The only way we can get off (if we needed to) are the 2 Connecticut ferries from Pt. Jefferson and Orient Point. They have closed all of the highways, and most of the schools. People are panicing, unfortunately...long lines at the supermarket, gas stations (which I did myself), etc. If this is what war feels like... *sob* thank you all for being here and reading this, and for all of your thoughts. it helps more than you know.

Regarding the stability of the towers: From Before foundation excavation began, the 500 x 1,000-ft site was enclosed by a 3-ft-thick, 70-ft-high concrete cutoff wall built by the slurry trench wall method and keyed 3 ft into rock. Excavation was complicated by two nearby subway tubes that had to be supported without service interruption. A six-level basement was built in the foundation hole. Excavation of 1.2 million cu yd of earth and rock created $90 million of real estate for project owner, the Port of New York Authority. Instead of being trucked off for disposal, spoil was used to create 23 acres of fill in the Hudson River adjacent to the WTC site. It has since been developed as Battery Park City. The twin towers had the world's highest load-bearing walls. Seattle-based structural engineer Worthington, Skilling, Helle and Jackson designed them as vertical cantilevered steel tubes. Exterior columns are 14-in. square hollow box sections spaced 39 in. center-to-center. Spandrels welded to the columns at each floor make them into huge Vierendeel trusses. Each tower is 208 x 208 ft with a column-free interior between the outer walls and the 79-ft x 139-ft core.

further to Beth's post above about security, here's an article from the BBC comparing security at US and UK airports - having been pulled over twice in the UK as a frequent UK/Ireland flyer, one body search, one bag search, I'd agree its annoying at the time, but then you think you'd rather be safe and you're glad it happens ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1538000/1538682.stm

There are explosions in Kabul now. Missiles, tracer fire. Antiaircraft fire.

4 F-16s just flew over my house... and now Kabul... Lord help us all.

Some incredible photos. http://www.alternet.org/graphics/story_hirez/terrorist1.jpg http://www.alternet.org/graphics/story_hirez/terrorist2.jpg http://www.alternet.org/graphics/story_hirez/terrorist3.jpg http://www.alternet.org/graphics/story_hirez/terrorist4.jpg http://www.alternet.org/graphics/story_hirez/terrorist5.jpg http://www.alternet.org/graphics/story_hirez/terrorist6.jpg http://www.alternet.org/graphics/story_hirez/terrorist7.jpg http://www.alternet.org/graphics/story_hirez/terrorist8.jpg http://www.alternet.org/graphics/story_hirez/terrorist9.jpg

I am still in shock over today's events and wondering how this could have happened. I am in Canada and think this is the first time I have EVER heard of the Cdn/USA border being closed. I am amazed at how much security has gone into place so quickly. All airports shut down (only taking diverted overseas flights that were to land in U.S.) In our small city, streets to airport are all blocked--no one allowed into or out of airport. Extra police/customs are in place at border already. Cdn.fighter jets had to escort two Korean Air/Lines into Whitehorse airport today when they did not respond to hail. In a total state of disbelieve! HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN??

San Francisco Bay and its bridges and industries and Alameda are all being partolled by AWACS planes this night. There are frightened citizens there, and I worry for them, as well. We are ALL in a state of total disbelief. They have stopped selling stuff on QVC and HSC out of respect... That has to be a first.

It happened because we didn't answer many wake up calls. It happened because minimum wage people do security at airports. It happened because we were thinking about a missle defense system instead of tightening up our obvious security holes. Ebay is full of people selling ghoulish mementos and wtc related domain names. I'm still in shock, I've been channel surfing the major networks, ABC is the only one that hasn't given this whole thing a big garish name. Peter Jennings and Diane Sawyer are doing some pretty good, calm, balanced coverage. Bush's speech made it clear we won't just go after the terrorists but those harboring the terrorists. This is the beginning of a campaign on worldwide terror.

http://news.mpr.org/features/200109/11_newsroom_terrorist/ has photos and also live radio clips. The image of the plane slicing through (from the other side of the building) is shocking. It's in the national images slideshow, the caption reads: "An amateur photographer was snapping a photograph of the damage to one World Trade Center tower at the instant when a second airliner crashed into the other tower. (credit pending) " From: info@kauf.com Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:47:49 +0200 To: david@trufun.com Subject: Press release: Help for terror victims by Internet Ladies and Gentlemen Victims and their relatives of the terrorist attacks can get help by Internet. At http://www.wtchelp.com or http://66.33.42.252 they can add a special notice for searching a person and get further information. The Internet page was developed by the company Kaufcom for the WTC Help Organization. Within shortest time, further information and auxiliary functions will be provided to offer a fast and easy help. The WTC Help Organization was found at the 11th of September 2001. Our goal is it to support the victims and their relatives with the best possible help by using the new medias. The WTC Help Organization stays in contact with many other organisations. Patrick Hofer WTC-Help Organization Neue Winterthurerstr. 30 CH-8305 Dietlikon Switzerland Fax: +41 1 888 43 16 Email:hofer@kaufcom.ch

Orrin Hatch said a month a go they knew there was going to be a big attack. Barbara Walters is reporting this and Peter Jennings is appealing on him to explain this more clearly. Hatch is saying he has the real data that Ohsama Bin Ladin did this. He's saying we have about 24 hours to act and round up the terrorists before they go underground.

There is not a message board anywhere that has not talked about this. Every single Yahoo club to which I belong is talking about it. Mostly how numb everyone feels. Non-US people reacting with sadness and condolences and the same determination to win this match. Don't mess with those I love. I am ready to do what must be done!!!

From Reuters

http://reuters.com/ go look at the large photo... it is astounging!

Subject: report from NYC... Date: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 5:36 PM From: Michael McDonough To: Bruce Sterling It started at 8:45 AM with the missile-like scream of something flying too low and fast across the city's heart, followed by a thump that shook the ground. Something is wrong. Minutes later, a second thump. The city empties into the streets. TVs come alive with live video feeds of the planes striking the south sides of the towers. I photograph the fires from my SoHo roof, capturing the north sides on film. The fire has penetrated the towers and is licking up the facades, bright orange tongues through inky black smoke. But the towers are not the towers, they are one tower and one smoky billow the size of an atomic cloud. People are jumping from the upper stories of the remaining tower. A short time later, now on the streets, my wife and I are talking to strangers, exchanging information got from blaring car radios. Mid-sentence, the second tower implodes before our eyes, only a few blocks away, glass shards blowing out from the smoky, collapsing core. Like nightmarish snow, they glisten and sparkle, then disappear. On a normal day, over 100,000 persons pass through the WTC. We have just seen a large number of them vaporized. Debris, chunks of the buildings the size of city buses and automobiles rain down onto the streets of Lower Manhattan. The collapses at first take the tops of the towers. In a matter of seconds, the remaining, lower reaches are infernos. The facades of the towers have fallen onto the surrounding streets. A woman in the hotel next to the towers reports seeing legions of firefighters, police, and medical personnel disappeared beneath the rubble in an instant. Now the explosions have killed not only those in the towers, but those trying to save them on the ground. Elsewhere in the city, as the day grinds on, businesses and shops are closed, locked tight with security gates in place. All civilian vehicular transportation in and out of the city stops. The tunnels are sealed off and empty. The bridges are available for those who want to hike out of the city. At early evening I walk the police cordons around lower Manhattan. On the local streets, urgent laser printed pleas for blood donations are taped to mailboxes and street lamps. Black SUVs with darkened windows scream through intersections in long lines, with sirens and flashing lights. Ambulances from New Jersey and Long Island, and Upstate New York--townships 60 miles and more outside of New York City--course the streets; 20, 30 at a time, they move, heading north to hospitals and triage centers. Military planes dart overhead, then disappear. The city is an uneasy silence broken on occasion by piecing, crackling sounds, warnings and urgent communications. Thousands of people stare blank-eyed and quiet as they watch the buildings all over downtown burn. Dozens of construction workers loaded on trucks--welding kits, steel barriers, men and material--head south, to ground zero. Fire engines line the west side arterial roads, empty, their occupants fighting the out-of-control fires on foot. Military vehicles start to appear. The trucks and cars near the center are shattered, crushed, lost in a hail of ash and metal and concrete. New fires start. Smoke billows easterly, against white smoke against the blue sky of our mid-September day. More buildings are burning. Another flaming, 40 story pile falls. We are helpless; we watch. Cars are burning. Mercury from a million fluorescent lights, PCBs from miles of electrical components, dioxin from football fields of synthetic carpets and miles of PVC piping placed throughout the complex, a toxic, now gray soup belching from the flaming, collapsing hulks. It is as if the city has lost its arms, and is staring blankly at where they used to be, finding flaming, smoking voids in their stead. Michael McDonough New York City 9/11

from another board: scutmonkey Posted On 09/11/01 07:55PM I have a friend that works for Delta Airlines HQ here in Atlanta that person had a couple things to say. One is that the plane over Pennsylvania was intentionally run into the ground by the pilot. All four of those aircraft had radio communications and were describing what was happening at least in the beginning. They issued special emergency codes as well. The pilots locked the cabin doors, but there is a key with the flight attendants that is hidden in a different place on each flight. The terrorist began stabbing crew members and passengers until someone told them where it was. The crew believed that this was a typical hostage and ransom situation and gave up the keys. When the pilots of the Pennsylvania plane realized it wasn't from the other incidents they crashed the jet.

I went into a hospital meeting at 7:30am and came out at 9:00am (CST) this a.m., only to discover that the world was suddenly going to hell! Here in middle Tennessee, the lines are growing longer outside the gas stations...the small town streets are crowded with cars trying to fill up and beat the iminent gas hikes that are rumored to occur by morning. A neighbor works close to the Tennessee/Alabama line and was told that gas in Alabama had shot up to $10.00 a gallon.....jeez....BTW, Thanks to all of you who have expressed condolences on this board. Your support is greatly needed and appreciated!

The Boston Herald is breaking some amazing details: WAR: Hub terror suspects ID'd: Bush vows retaliation after devestating attack by Ed Hayward, Tom Farmer and Cosmo Macero Jr. Wednesday, September 12, 2001 Authorities in Massachusetts identified at least five Arab men as suspects in yesterday's terror attacks launched from Logan International Airport, seizing in the central parking garage a car laden with Arabic-language flight training manuals, sources said last night. Two of the men, whose passports were traced to the United Arab Emirates, were brothers, one of whom was a trained pilot, a source told the Herald, speaking on condition of anonymity. At least two other suspects flew to Logan yesterday from Portland, Maine, where authorities believe they had traveled after crossing over from Canada recently. Once in the air, the hijackers in one plane began killing flight attendants in order to lure a pilot from the cockpit and seize the plane, said one source. ``They started killing stewardesses in the back of the plane as a diversion. The pilot came back to help and that is how they got into the cockpit,'' said the source. The source could not specify whether those events took place on the American Airlines flight that left Logan, or the United Airlines flight. Both planes were plunged into the World Trade Center roughly an hour after they departed Boston. The suspects had no guns, but used shaving kits and other carry-on luggage to smuggle knife-like weapons made up of plastic handles embedded with razor blades, sources familiar with last night's developments said. That finding is consistent with reports of a flight attendant's cell-phone call from one of the doomed airliners. ``People were calling from the plane saying they were getting killed, calling 911,'' said one source. ``One stewardess called her husband to say goodbye.'' Authorities were led to the rental car by a civilian who got into an altercation with several Arab men as they were parking their car, identified by sources as a Mitsubishi sedan. The man, whose name was not available last night, called state police from an out-of-state airport after his own flight landed yesterday and he learned planes hijacked from Logan had been involved in attacks that toppled the World Trade Center's twin towers, crippled the Pentagon and downed another airliner in Pennsylvania. The car, rented from National Rental Car, was secured yesterday by the FBI and authorities have prepared a search warrant. It was unclear when the warrant would be served. State police interviewed more than 130 people at the airport yesterday, as America launched what is expected to be the largest criminal investigation in its history. Investigators suspect the two brothers identified by Bay State investigators were aboard United Airlines Flight 175. The terror plot included the hijacking and crashing of four airliners, including one into the Pentagon, where the Arlington, Va., fire chief estimated the death toll at up to 800. In New York last night, Mayor Rudolph Guiliani told reporters some people are alive in the rubble of the trade center complex, and there was an unconfirmed report of a cop being pulled out alive last night. There was also a report that survivors trapped in the collapsed buildings were making cell-phone calls. A horrified nation witnessed the shocking carnage as the World Trade Center's ``North Tower'' burned and exploded after it was struck just before 9 a.m. by Los Angeles-bound American Airlines Flight 11, which departed Boston's Logan Airport at 7:59 a.m. with 81 passengers, two pilots and nine flight attendants. A second jet - United Airlines Flight 175, that left Logan for L.A. at 8:14 a.m. carrying 56 passengers, seven attendants and two pilots - was captured on video as it sliced through the ``South Tower'' and unleashed a massive fireball just after 9 a.m. Just moments before the first crash, air traffic controllers heard the lone voice of the terror plot speaking from the cockpit of one doomed aircraft. ``We have more planes, we have other planes,'' a voice alleged to be that of a hijacker could be heard saying through a microphone activated by a pilot of American Airlines Flight 11, the Christian Science Monitor reported on its Web site. Establishing the death toll could take weeks. The four airliners alone carried 266 people, none known to survive. At the Pentagon, as many as 800 people could be dead, including plane victims. Roughly 50,000 people worked at the World Trade Center and there was an hour available for evacuations. But the toll already appeared staggering for the men and women who worked to save lives. A firefighters union official said an estimated 200 firefighters had died. An estimated 87 police officers were missing. Within two hours of the initial Trade Center crash, the fiery nightmare gave way to mind-numbing grief, as both towers imploded, raining thick dust, glass shards, metal chunks and human remains on the streets below. As the twin symbols of American capitalism's global reach crashed to the ground in a smoking heap of dust and debris, the Pentagon burned after another fiery strike - this time American Airlines Flight 77, which left Dulles Airport in Washington, D.C., for Los Angeles with 58 passengers, four attendants and two pilots. A fourth hijacked plane, United Airlines Flight 93, carrying 38 passengers, two pilots and five flight attendands out of Newark, N.J., crashed in Pennsylvania with its intended target believed to be the presidential retreat at Camp David. Officials assembled a massive team of investigators as harrowing details of the hijackings began to emerge, culled from desperate cell-phone and radio calls made by passengers and crew: ``One of the pilots keyed their mike so the conversation between the pilot and the person in the cockpit could be heard,'' an unamed controller told the paper. ``The person in the cockpit was speaking English. He was saying something like, `Don't do anything foolish. You're not going to get hurt.' '' The Los Angeles-bound plane requested a flight path for John F. Kennedy Airport, but then its tracking transponder was shut off and it veered toward the Manhattan skyline. A flight attendant aboard Flight 11 called superiors to report two flight attendants had been stabbed and hijackers had broken into the cockpit, ABC News reported. The attendant also relayed the seat number of one hijacker before the plane struck the Trade Center. U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft confirmed knives were believed to have been used in the Flight 11 hijacking. Aboard American Airlines Flight 93, just moments before it crashed into the Pentagon, Barbara Olson, wife of Solicitor General Ted Olson, called her husband on a cell phone to tell him hijackers wielding knives and box cutters had hearded passengers and crew into the back of the plane. ``She called her husband twice during the hijacking to tell him the plane had been hijacked, and they lost contact once and she called back,'' reported CNN, where Barbara Olson worked as a commentator. ``She said to Ted, `What do I tell the pilot to do?' CNN reported. ``But there was nothing they could do, they were all kept in the back of the plane.'' In Pennsylvania, an emergency dispatcher received a cell-phone call at 9:58 a.m. from a man who said he was a passenger locked in a bathroom aboard United Flight 93, said dispatch supervisor Glenn Cramer in neighboring Westmoreland County. ``We are being hijacked, we are being hijacked!'' Cramer quoted the man from a transcript of the call. The man told dispatchers the plane ``was going down. He heard some sort of explosion and saw white smoke coming from the plane and we lost contact with him,'' Cramer said. Virginia Rep. James Moran said the intended target of the plane was apparently Camp David, the presidential retreat in Maryland, 85 miles away from the crash site. Robert Fitzpatrick, a former second-in-command in the FBI's Boston office, said Boston appears to have been the staging area for the attack on New York and the hijackers most likely had help from others who may still be in Boston. ``There's a terrorist cell operating out of Boston,'' Fitzpatrick said. ``They had to have support, they had to have people on the ground, in Boston, supporting them.'' http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_regional/ausattk09122001.htm

This is beyond words, and beyond understanding. I'm still trying to find words to tell you what I feel about the unspeakable, unimaginable. My thoughts are with all who suffer, the innocent victims, and their families and friends, and with the American people. I send my heartfelt condolences from Germany - we are all with you. Whatever the intention was of this senseless killing, it goes empty: it will unite - has already united - all freedom-loving people all over the world. Take care all of you. Renate

I was at work yesterday when my colleague called me to tell that WTC in NY collapsed and that Pentagon was on fire. I couldn't believe in it. I thought he told me a stupid joke. Everything reminded of some films or books, but not real life. But then I went to news website and the truth struck me with shock. Today I've read your news reports and can't stop thinking about the people trapped in the burning building and those who were caugh in the hijacked planes. The senseless cruelty and detailed preparation of the operation is sth beyond my understanding. I'm joining in grief with everyone and I do hope than anything like this will not happen again.

More on United Flight 93 from today's Miami Herald: Passenger called wife from cell phone shortly before Pittsburgh crash By Paul Rogers and Lisa Fernandez Knight Ridder SAN JOSE, Calif. (12:30 a.m. EDT) -- It might have been the final resistance of a doomed pilot. Or a heroic struggle by a Bay Area passenger. Or a miscalculation by terrorists. But if there was one glimmer of good news amid the numbing enormity of Tuesday's terrorist attacks, it shined in the wreckage of a United Airlines 757, a flight once bound for San Francisco and instead now strewn across a remote field in the coal country of southwestern Pennsylvania. Unlike three other commercial jets that were purposely slammed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, United Flight 93, for some reason yet unknown, did not hit a terrorist's target Tuesday morning and did not kill thousands of people. The flight crashed instead at 10:06 a.m. EDT in a wooded area 70 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, two hours after it left Newark, N.J. All 45 people on board were killed, said Bill Crowley, a special agent with the FBI in Pittsburgh. Among them were 38 passengers, five flight attendents and two pilots. Minutes before the fiery impact, at least two passengers telephoned from the plane. One man phoned 911, yelling to dispatchers "We are being hijacked! We are being hijacked!'' before the signal was lost. The other, Tom Burnett, 38, the vice president of a Pleasanton, Calif., medical devices company and father of three children, called his wife, Deena, and may have indicated he and other passengers were about to attempt to overpower the hijackers. Burnett told his wife that somebody on the plane had been stabbed, said Father Frank Colacicco, of St. Isidore's Church in Danville. "We're all gonna die, but three of us are going to do something,'' Burnett told his wife, according to Colacicco. He added: "I love you honey'' before the call ended. FBI agents were interviewing members of the family Tuesday night. The FBI said that 40 agents and more than 150 other investigators were combing the crash site as darkness fell, including agents from the Department of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, the FAA and the Pennsylvania State Police. Like the three other doomed jets that took off, and then suddenly veered off course, United Flight 93 sharply turned south after nearing Cleveland. One Congressman told Knight Ridder that some investigators believe the plane's hijackers were attempting to crash into either Camp David, the presidential retreat located 80 miles south of the crash site, at Thurmond, Maryland, or the Capitol Building in Washington, D.C. "There was concern that it was heading in the direction of Washington, D.C.,'' said Rep. Jim Moran, D-Virginia. Moran said that Capitol police named the two potential targets in a briefing he received from them. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, described Tuesday as a national tragedy and the scope is only just beginning to sink in. "At Pearl Harbor, there were 2,000 people killed,'' Feinstein said. "This could be tens of thousands.'' United Airlines did not release the passenger list from Flight 93 on Tuesday. At least one other Bay Area resident was confirmed dead, a female student at Santa Clara University. The name of the woman, a junior, was not being released, pending notification of her family, said Barry Holtzclaw, a spokesman for the university. "I'm shattered by this,'' said Holtzclaw. "''The scale of it, the enormity of it, the buildings and the loss off life. The mood of the campus tomorrow will be very very somber.'' It may be weeks before it is known what happened in the doomed flight, experts said. "It fits the same pattern of the other ones,'' said a high-ranking FAA official. "The moves of the plane are similar to what you would see if a struggle or some violent problem occurred in the cockpit.'' Gary Joseph, who co-pilots United 747-400 flights from San Francisco to Shanghai, said he believes the pilots aboard Flight 93 tried to prevent the terrorists from taking control of the aircraft. "They train you to do whatever they say, but that only goes so far,'' Joseph said. "If he had any idea what they were planning, I'm sure he tried to fight them off.'' Joseph said a pilot may try to make sharp turns and dive . . . much the way initial radar records show the plane did in its final minutes in the air . . . to throw a would-be hijacker off balance. "There's been cases where they do that and get control back of the plane. But a jet can only take so much of a dive before it starts to fall apart, I don't know.'' Joseph said it wasn't clear whether the crew was a San Francisco-based one or a New York-based group, because the airline has crews stationed in each city. No family members showed up at San Francisco International Airport to greet the passengers at its normal 11:15 a.m. arrival time, said Ron Wilson, spokesman for San Francisco International Airport. That is possibly because United employees in Chicago reached many of them before they left home. Dozens of clergy members gathered at United's VIP lounge to await survivors. San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown cancelled his trip to meet the victims' families when it appeared nobody would show up. The Boeing 757 seats about to 200 passengers, which means Flight 93 was less than a quarter full. The crash scene is located near one of America's worst civilian disaster, the site of the 1889 Johnstown flood, in which 2,200 people perished when the South Fork Dam collapsed. Jim Marker, a Somerset, Pennsylvania County Commissioner, visited the crash site and said the FBI was investigating the possibility that the plane suffered an explosion before it crashed. The passenger who phoned Westmoreland County dispatchers also said there was an explosion, the Associated Press reported. "They are checking about a mile from the site for some debris that might show there was an explosion,'' said Marker. "They do believe there was that possibility.'' Others in the small town said the crash rocked the area, like an earthquake. "It was 2 miles away, but it shook everything,'' said Bruce Grine, owner of Grine's Service Center in Shanksville. "It shook the windows. We saw smoke. Then the smell. Then somebody came running up the street and said a plane crashed. God, it was terrible.''

Hi all First off, I extend my deepest sympathy to all who lost loved ones in today cowardly attacks. Second I call for a cool headed response (NOT one of a deranged lunatic hopping around like a crazed devil barking orders). I know that many of you are outraged and that some want war, but BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY THIS: HASTE NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL PAY OR BEGIN TO PAY FOR WHAT HAPPENED. Be patient and let the United States Government establish it's priorities and wait until they find AND confirm the culprits. Then AND ONLY THEN, will it be safe to let the Pentagon of the leash. I am still coming to grips tonight some 14 hours after Mum tipped me off that the WTC twin towers had been destroyed by a 767 and a 757 and that the Pentagon had been hit by another 767. Although I now understand what happened the SHEER scale of planning that must have gone into the attacks, tell me one thing only: The person/s who masterminded this evil have a monumental hatred for all things American. They are the sort of people who should be put on show trial in front of the whole nation, and assuming they are found guilty, should be executed in public. Rob

Hello everyone, I am from Poland, when I heard the news yesterday I was stunned - I thought it was a kind of a joke and all those pictures which looked like taken from some movie. I am still in shock as well as my family and friends. I extend my sympathy too all Americans and people who lost someone important and loved. It's a tragedy for whole world and I hope that nothing else like this would never take place. take care all of you who are in the middle of this tragedy and please,remember that whole civilizated world is with you. Love, Alexandra

"Taliban rulers deny bin Laden's involvement" http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/taliban-reax.htm Olzuza, we are all feeling the sadness today, yesterday we were numb with the shock of this horrible attack on America. This is unprecedented, the biggest thing that has happened in my lifetime. unidentified source: "there's a specific code (7700) a pilot dials in when being hijacked, which causes all sorts of bells and whistles to go off on a controller's screen. *That* would be the reason those guys made them turn them off. Not stupid, at all. Vile, despicable cretins, yes. A plane goes off course, there's a time lag to 1) notice it, 2) inquire, 3) request correction or further explanation, 4) decide there's a threat, 5) measure its gravity, and 6) take action. The first five steps are covered by dialing-in 7700, a motion in the cockpit that's not inconsistent with any other miscellaneous fiddling with knobs and switches necessary to fly the plane.

http://www.wi2600.org/mediawhore/mirrors/sept-11-problems/asu/www.asu.net/wtc/otherpics/wtc35.jpg http://www.wi2600.org/mediawhore/mirrors/sept-11-problems/asu/www.asu.net/wtc/otherpics/ This one is horrible: http://www.wi2600.org/mediawhore/mirrors/sept-11-problems/asu/www.asu.net/wtc/otherpics/wtc55.jpg A tower about to fall:

To find out more about donating online, check: Red Cross and Helping.org

oops, typo, the Red Cross is located at http://www.redcross.org/

I just can't watch TV anymore. I have to take a break from the unending surreal shots of the planes hitting the towers. Those of you at Drool know I'm from the NY area. As a child, I watched the towers go up. Yesterday I watched them come down. Like Liz, I know people who worked there and in the nearby Wall St. area. If you've ever visited downtown NYC, you saw the size of these buildings. If you went up to Windows on the World, the public restaurant, you experienced how high they were. Yesterday, one of our local newscasters felt himself important enough to provide encouragement by declaring 'we made it through Oklahoma City and Columbine and we'll make it through this.' Not to minimize those other tragedies, but the enormous numbers of victims who lost their lives yesterday cannot be compared to those other incidents. I now live outside DC (quite a distance from the Pentagon). Our normally quiet skies were filled with military aircraft yesterday. All's quiet again today. My sister works in upper Manhattan. I'm still trying to find out if she made it out of the city last night. I'll be back to the TV soon because I am fascinated by reports about the many calls made from the planes, how the FBI is progressing in their investigation (too much too little too late, IMO), information as to how these sociopaths pulled this off and stories from the survivors. Lastly, I am trying to wrap my mind's eye around a picture of the NYC skyline without the towers. I drove past them on the Jersey side every day for years. I could see them from almost every town in which I've lived. I saw them this past Sunday and thought 'it's good to be home'. Their absence will forever be a reminder of yesterday's events and the lives lost.

Dear Heavenly Father, We are moved by the alarming news and crisis that our country is facing. This, the greatest nation, founded in the belief that "In God We Trust" and the "Land of the Free". Please have mercy on those suffering, hurting and in fear, and give wisdom & strength to those who are assisting. May the forces of evil be broken by your power and may we humble before thee, our strength and refuge. Give wisdom to our President and all our leaders and bring your comforting peace through the power of your Holy Spirit. Help us here to reach those that have been affected by this tragedy. In the name of our Lord and Savior, Christ Jesus. Amen. (Please send this to all your friends and create a prayer chain throughoutthis nation.)

Another batch of URLs from Phil Agre: -- Wall Street Journal coverage (appears to be available without a subscription) http://interactive.wsj.com/pages/terattack.htm Yahoo links to news stories etc http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Terrorism/ eyewitness accounts http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_1537000/1537530.stm online mechanisms for donating to the Red Cross http://www.amazon.com/paypage/PKAXFNQH7EKCX http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/relief-outside legal coverage http://www.law.com/ mailing list to connect people who can volunteer or provide resources http://207.22.68.76/911volunteers.html aircraft flight tracks http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/spSec/wtcst.jsp front pages of 50 newspapers' coverage of the attack http://www.poynter.org/terrorism/pdf1.htm Current Awareness via Streaming Audio/Video http://gwu.edu/~gprice/audio.htm Speech/Transcripts/Statements from US and Foreign Leaders http://gwu.edu/~gprice/speech.htm Anonymous Remailer Operators Start to Take Remailers Offline http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/current/msg00272.html Middle East Newswire http://www.middleeastwire.com/newswire/ Two Planes Hit Twin Towers at Exactly the Worst Spot http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-000073606sep12.story Security Experts Knew a Major Attack Was Possible http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14031-2001Sep11.html Insurance Cost for Terrorist Attack to Near $1 Billion http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/depth/insure091201.htm Reports: Boston Investigators Find Evidence in Attacks http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010912/ts/attack_suspects_dc_2.html civil engineering aspects of the building collapse http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.htm online discussion site for pilots http://www.pprune.org/ Rescuers Struggle at Pentagon http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1539000/1539839.stm Why the Killers Threaten World Prosperity http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1538000/1538958.stm In Shock, Teachers Downplay Tragedy http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-000073649sep12.story EBay Cancels Auctions of Attack-Related Items (some idiots were actually gathering rubble in order to sell it on eBay) http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-000073609sep12.story

From abcnews.com ABCNEWS has learned that officials have identified all the hijackers, and estimated there were three to five for each of the four passenger planes involved. At least two of the hijackers were on the Immigration and Naturalization Service "watch list," and it's still unclear whether the individuals entered the United States illegally or whether they entered before their names were placed on the list. Most if not all of the hijackers were Egyptian or Saudi nationals, sources said. In Washington, State Department officials said they have intelligence information that connects the attacks on the twin towers in New York and on the Pentagon to fugitive Saudi millionaire Osama bin Laden.

Well it's here in Boston. This is ridiculous...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/bio.html A bio on Bin Laden from pbs.org. Read the disclaimer that the source is unnamed and the info differs from other bios. Seems his father is from Yemen but moved to Saudi years before Osama (one of 50 children? boggles the mind...) was born in '57. Father made his money in Saudi as a construction mogul, from humble beginnings. http://msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1

Subject: Yesterday's bombings [4x] Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:12 PM From: nettime's compiler Reply-To: "nettime's compiler" To: Table of Contents: The Media: As an Attack Unfolds, a Struggle to Provide Vivid Imag es to Homes John Armitage WTC/Pentagon attac folks@arthide.de (folks) Re: New York City Andrew Ross It was supposed to be such a beautiful day "Ivo Skoric" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:42:35 +0100 From: John Armitage Subject: The Media: As an Attack Unfolds, a Struggle to Provide Vivid Imag es to Homes THE NEW YORK TIMES SEP 12, 2001 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/12/national/12MEDI.html?pagewanted=print The Media: As an Attack Unfolds, a Struggle to Provide Vivid Images to Homes By FELICITY BARRINGER and GERALDINE FABRIKANT Television's broadcast networks and many of its cable channels - both news and entertainment - scrapped their regular schedules yesterday. Radio stations took live television news feeds. Two dozen newspapers published special editions and Web sites threw out their advertising and in some cases stripped down to basic text and still images to help their overtaxed computers handle a demand for news unlike any they had experienced. Between the moment when perplexed morning news broadcasters began fielding calls from Greenwich Village residents who saw a low- flying plane crash into One World Trade Center and the moment more than an hour later when New York's twin towers crumbled into Roman candles of smoky debris, the country's media outlets geared up to become the public stage of a national emergency. By noon, all four major television networks had agreed to share video images. By midafternoon, almost all of AOL Time Warner's cable channels, like TBS and TNT, were carrying CNN; Viacom's CBS News feed was being carried by Viacom's music channels, VH1 and MTV; and Peter Jennings of ABC News was appearing not just on his network, but on Disney's ESPN channel and all ABC radio stations. Most of the networks used variations of the title adopted by CNN: America Under Attack. Images of billowing smoke from lower Manhattan and the low, smoldering profile of the Pentagon, hit, like the Trade Center towers, by a hijacked commercial jetliner, were dominant on all networks. Referring to the unusual agreement to share images among the bitterly competitive news divisions of the networks and CNN, the Fox News president, Roger Ailes, said: "All the networks decided that this is a national emergency. We're not keeping score today." Nor were they making much money, as they largely scrapped commercial advertising. In Washington, where the downtown had become a ghost town after the federal government was shut down, delivery trucks for The Washington Post headed for suburban 7- Eleven stores carrying a special edition dominated by a two-inch headline, "Terror Hits Pentagon, World Trade Center," with a lead editorial headlined "War." Special editions were also published by The Los Angeles Times, The Chicago Tribune, The Newark Star-Ledger, The Charlotte Observer in North Carolina, The Austin American-Statesman in Texas, not to mention small dailies like The LaCrosse Tribune in Wisconsin. Traffic at news Web sites soared, with 10 times or more the usual number of users trying to log on, clogging the Internet and slowing response time. Because New York was not just ground zero of the opening attack but also the heartland of the media industry, some of the most dramatic early accounts were from correspondents working at or near their homes. Don Dahler, an ABC News correspondent who covered recent civil wars in Africa, was getting dressed for work in his third-floor apartment in Tribeca, perhaps half a mile from the World Trade Center, when he heard the first plane hit. "I heard what is a very familiar sound anywhere else in the world, in war zones," Mr. Dahler said. "It sounded to me like a missile, a high- pitched scream and a roar followed by an explosion, my mind was telling me it's a missile. Then I saw this gaping wound in the World Trade Center. I called into `Good Morning' immediately and started reporting," standing on his sixth-floor rooftop with a cellular telephone. Mr. Dahler, just one of the network's sources, was not on the air when he felt the first of the two towers collapse. "When it collapsed I could feel a rumble, and I tried to interrupt to say that something was happening right before my eyes," he said. "The building collapsed. I was telling them it looks like its coming down, it looks like it's coming down. They switched to me right after it had fallen." If there were a few stutter-steps like that, it was not surprising. It was one of the rare instances when television brought disaster into American homes in real time. The radical changes in the technology of news delivery, however, along with the quality of video imagery gave most of the day's news broadcasts the feeling of an epic disaster movie. The only genuinely grainy imagery came from the most advanced and portable equipment: CNN's satellite video phones, which allowed that network alone to televise a news conference with the spiritual leader of the Taliban government in Afghanistan, the country that harbors the headquarters of the accused terrorist, Osama Bin Laden. By evening, the same equipment was showing tracer fire and explosions in Kabul. Beyond the vivid pictures, the reporting included a number of mistakes borne of rumors that sprang up throughout the day. CNN reported that another plane was headed for the Pentagon. Fox News reported that the State Department was on fire. CBS News reported that a second airplane tried to attack the Pentagon. All the reports were later corrected. The closest major news organization to the scene was The Wall Street Journal, whose main offices nearby were evacuated at 9:15 a.m. Reporters and editors worked from home or other Dow Jones offices from New Jersey to Hong Kong to prepare a Wednesday issue. Talk radio shows, which sometimes feed on inflammatory commentary, were unusually low key yesterday, with hosts sympathizing or eliciting information from eyewitnesses rather than goading. On the New York radio dial, reporters at news stations struggled to describe the breadth of the destruction. And talk radio hosts - sometimes after ominous music played in the background - covered subjects from airport security to retaliation. The radio reports played a larger role than usual in bringing news to the city, since the antennas that broadcast the signals of WABC and WNBC were destroyed along with the twin towers. New Yorkers without cable television - about 30 percent to 35 percent of the city's viewers - could only get WCBS, whose antenna is on the Empire State Building. The radio journalists reverted to the techniques of Edward R. Murrow's wartime broadcasts from London to make the story visual. On WCBS-AM, the journalist Peter Haskell reported that ambulances were lined up "as far as the eye can see on both sides of the West Side Highway." On WINS, the reporter Steve Kastenbaum said: "It looks like the entire city is just walking home. The Brooklyn Bridge is a sea of people coming off the F.D.R. Drive, walking down from Midtown, walking across the East River to their destinations." Elsewhere in the country, some stations used the event to set up a dialogue with listeners. A Christian radio station in Los Angeles, KFSG-FM, canceled commercial advertising yesterday until 6 p.m. and used itsafternoon hours to take calls from listeners who wanted to talk about the attacks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:16:08 +0200 From: folks@arthide.de (folks) Subject: WTC/Pentagon attac Historically speaking, THIS is the beginning of the new century, 11.09.2001. Those who believe in something like humanity, whether the word has been misused or not, whether someone is fighting against US policy or not, feels with the innocent people who died and those who now bitterly miss them. folks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:16:24 -0500 From: Andrew Ross Subject: Re: New York City As someone who's been moving around downtown New York yesterday and this morning, I'm struck by how many paramilitary vehicles there are on the streets. The National Guard is here, of course, but there are also all sorts of very strange-looking vehicles (with unfamiliar acronyms on the side, if they are identified at all) that you never see on civilian streets, but which clearly belong to the relevant civil authorities. All other things aside (which, I realize, is a large proviso), the atmosphere is neo-martial, and reminds one of how quickly a dense First World metro area can and could be commandeered under other circumstances that one is only left to imagine. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:22:14 -0400 From: "Ivo Skoric" Subject: It was supposed to be such a beautiful day Yesterday, it was such a beautiful sunny September day in New York city that the only cloud in the sky was the one raising from the rubble of the World Trade Center. I don't think we can be sure as of yet who did it. Osama bin Laden and his group are obvious suspects - because they already attacked WTC, and maybe they just came back to finish the job. Hezbollah on the other hand has the history of trying to crash a hijacked passenger plane in a building. And nobody even mentions the non-Arab, non-Palestine related options, because they are simply to scary to contemplate: like what if this is 'domestic' terrorism? Regardless, of who did it, however, this was an act of war. This was the single largest atrocity committed against the U.S. on its soil since the Declaration of Independence. It is also important to note that the DoD's beloved Space Shield would do absolutely nothing to protect the U.S. from such an attack that came from inside and was executed by the tools of American corporate business (2 passenger jets owned by the American Airlines and 2 passenger jets owned by the United Airlines), used against the symbols of American economic and military might. Doesn't it look improbable that Pentagon got a direct hit? That was sure enough to humble American arrogance. Yet, that was not enough for the terrorists. That's why I agree with Ruth Wedgwood, a Yale University law professor and terrorism expert, that this is not only an act of war, but also a war crime. Crashing a plane full of passengers in a busy city district at the beginning of a workday should classify clearly as a war crime, on pair with what people in former Yugoslavia or Rwanda did to each other. New York yesterday and today feels like Sarajevo felt after shelling the markeplace. Public transportation did not run, exits from the city were closed down, schools are closed, markets are closed, all airports around the country are shut down, 4000 daily flights are grounded, hospitals in the city are overwhelmed with hundreds, thousands of injured, and we don't even know yet the number of victims. People are eerily calm. Black teenagers here on my corner are unusually quiet and still. It seems that all passengers in subways got a few more wrinkles on their faces than they had yesterday, and everybody is paying the fare, regardless of the service doors being left wide open. The 'hyper- power' is on its knees. UN, World Bank, Capitol, White House, Treasury, State Department and Pentagon are evacuated. And New York will probably never be the same again. I feel the same emptiness as I felt when Mostar lost the Old Bridge. Holy shit - UPS just this moment delivered a package to me - functioning parcel service suggests return to 'normalcy', that's encouraging. About the perpetrators, there are several technical things that are kind of clear: some of them had to be trained pilots capable of driving most modern US passenger jets precisely (Iraqis?). The research of the US flight schedules was done meticulously, as to get a couple of wide fuselage planes, well filled with fuel (intended to fly accross the continent), hitting the twin towers from various points of origins within half an hour. Everything points to terrorists being well rehearsed and well informed. I don't see any other way but to have perpetrators and their supporters brought to justice. Nobody quite expected such a massive, well co-ordinated (4 airliners hijacked simultaneously at 4 different airports) and, unfortunately, highly succesfull attack on the land of the law, such as happened yesterday morning. September 11th will perhaps be remembered in the world's history, because I can't imagine world ever be the same after today in regards to fighting terrorism. I am obviously afraid that citizens will have to put up with even more curtailing of their freedoms to assure their safety. I am just thinking of what nightmare it is going to be to fly inside the US now, with all the increased security that would be put in place to prevent of this happening again - that's why, obviously, I would prefer that the perpetrators are caught sonner than later. As for the reasons - for quite a while we were all aware of how the rule of American law may convey injustice to some people. It is this feeling of injustice and the feeling of helplessness to prevent that injustice, that breeds anger, rage and hate, and ultimately it breaks out in irreversible acts of horrific terrorism. It is true that Palestinians were and still are victims at the hands of the world. And the routes for them to obtain redress are clogged on purpose for a long time. So, for a quite a while they resort to terrorism, including suicidal terrorism. It is true that during NATO's bombing campaign over Yugoslavia, many innocent Yugoslav citizens died. And it is also true that during the Gulf War a much larger number of innocent Iraqis died. Judging by the celebratory mood on streets of Gaza (and even some e-mail messages that came from Belgrade), there are people who do feel a sense of poetic justice in using American passenger planes as cruise missiles to 'punish' the cruise missiles makers. There is no doubt that in some people's minds the U.S. 'deserved' such a reckoning. I hope the U.S. would take this into consideration in its search for the perpetrators and in whatever action it choses to take against them. >From Manhattan: ivo skoric # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net

The White House and ABC News have confirmed that the intended target of the plane that crashed in DC, was NOT The Pentagon. It was The White House. OMG !! The White House have also confirmed that Air Force One and The President, were also intended targets. They have not revealed what brought them to this conclusion. Thank God these other attacks didn't take place and, that the Secret Service took the evasive measures with Air Force One, that they did.

From today's Vancouver Sun: "Wednesday, September 12, 2001 OTTAWA (CP) - Thousands of Canadians from coast to coast responded to calls for blood donations to help American victims of Tuesday's catastrophic attacks in New York and Washington. The hotline set up by Canadian Blood Services for those wishing to donate has been tied up almost permanently, said spokeswoman Lorna Tessier. She urged people to persevere, even though no request for blood has been received from U.S. authorities. ``We've had such an overwhelming response that the 1-888-2-DONATE line has been very difficult to get through on. ``Right now, clearly, the clinics are overwhelmed and we are putting on additional hours and additional clinics, but we don't want people to get discouraged. ``We are going to need their blood. We're anticipating that the need will come up.'' She said the agency doesn't have statistics yet on the number of people who have come forward, but it is in the thousands." I'd point out that nobody's actually asked us for blood yet, but people just felt the need to do something to help. From the National Post: Canadians offer homes to stranded 400 international jets diverted across country Wednesday, September 12, 2001 TORONTO and VANCOUVER - International passenger jets crammed Canadian tarmacs yesterday after all United States airports were closed in the wake of the terrorist attack that levelled the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York. About 400 planes were expected to be diverted throughout the day, pouring 10,000 people into Halifax alone. By late afternoon, Vancouver International Airport had received 34 planes diverted from North American destinations, carrying as many as 6,000 people. Another 25 planes were expected at Lester B. Pearson International Airport in Toronto. St. John's International Airport closed its runways after taking in 27 aircraft with 5,000 passengers. Fifty-seven flights were expected to land into the night at the airport in Gander, Nfld. At least 100 controllers and other staff were pulled out of courses and called in on their time off to help handle the deluge of international flights, said Paul Hornbeck, a spokesman for Nav Canada, the agency that handles air traffic control at Canadian airports. International arrival terminals across the country were choked with people while departure areas were virtually deserted -- all outbound flights across Canada were cancelled, except for humanitarian or search-and-rescue missions, police and military flights. Passengers stood in line with their luggage, waiting for hours to be searched before they could be permitted to leave. Bev Aurich, a traveller from Sydney, Australia, who had been headed to Anchorage, Alaska, before being grounded in Vancouver, said she did not mind the inconvenience. "We shouldn't be upset about missing a little trip, when there is such devastation in the United States. We're better to be delayed and be comfortable than to keep to our schedule and risk something," she said. In Toronto, some airport hotels reacted to the situation by increasing their rates to the maximum legal tariff. Meanwhile, concerned residents around the country showed up at airports to offer their homes to travellers. "I had to take the energy I felt and direct it," said Ena Bendon, a Vancouver woman who showed up at the airport to offer accommodation. "I thought of someone with kids here, terrified. I had to do something." Lufthansa pilot Axel Algner was flying a passenger jet from Frankfurt to Chicago when he was told there had been an incident in Manhatten and all planes were being grounded. It wasn't until he landed his plane in Toronto that he was informed of the details. "What I thought is that it was a joke. I couldn't believe it, it's still hard to believe. It just gives me goosebumps even talking about it," he said. Another pilot said he was instructed to lock his cockpit after being told the news. On the ground at Pearson, the airport began a news blackout at 10:30 a.m., according to one passenger. Travellers grouped around fellow passengers with cellphones to learn the details of what had happened. Others lined up to use payphones. Rabbis and Roman Catholic priests were brought in to counsel passengers. In Calgary, which took at least ten diverted flights, every hotel room was filled by early afternoon, but tourism officials said residents were opening up their homes to travellers. In Winnipeg, hotels were also booked solid by early afternoon, prompting the city to invoke its emergency measures plan, transforming public buildings into makeshift dormitories equipped with camp cots, said Penny McMillan, of Tourism Winnipeg. The airport took in 14 diverted domestic flights and three international ones -- generating 1,500 overnight guests. At Vancouver International Airport, Layne Daggett, the airport chaplain, said he placed 500 people, but others still needed accommodation. "I have a strong faith that God is in control even in these kinds of atrocities," he said. Column by Margaret Wente, Globe & Mail (Toronto) By MARGARET WENTE From Wednesday's Globe and Mail 8:45 a.m., Eastern Daylight Time. A crack in the centre of the world. Someone took revenge on America, and America was helpless. Nothing there will ever be the same again. A nation at the height of power, peace and prosperity, blessed by every fortune, whose enemies, it seemed, were as harmless as a few far-off fluffy clouds on a blazing blue September day. A nation that Tuesday looked infinitely vulnerable. It only took a few men who hate America to hijack its own commercial airplanes and turn them into bombs. It only took a few to ram them into America's most potent symbols of financial and military might. America's sense of its own security exploded with those towers in a cloud of smoke and dust. Americans will never feel quite so safe again. Nor will any of the rest of us, who looked to them to keep us safe, too. Their defences were completely useless. Their astounding intelligence and security machine, fuelled by billions and billions of dollars and the best high-tech devices ever invented, could not keep the bad guys out. They slipped through with ease, and struck the nation in its heart. The skyline of the capital of the world has a gaping wound where the towers once stood; a scar that will last forever. The senseless slaughter of civilians, until now, had always happened somewhere else. Now the horror has come home. Who did these things? All indications point to a sacred jihad from the Middle East. Maybe it was Saddam Hussein, exacting his blood revenge at last. Or Osama bin Laden, the millionaire fanatic who hates America for sending troops to Saudi Arabia during the war in the Persian Gulf, and for supporting Israel. " Blood, blood and destruction, destruction ," he commanded in a videotape to his followers last fall. To kill Americans is holy. Those who are responsible are most likely men from remote desert lands. Men from ancient tribal cultures built on blood and revenge. Men whose unshakable beliefs and implacable hatreds go back many centuries farther than the United States and its young ideas of democracy, pluralism and freedom. Hard men, who hide out in desert bunkers and turn the instruments of Western technology � its computers and CD-ROMs and videotapes and airplanes � against the West. Men capable of flying Boeing 747s with pinpoint, deadly accuracy, and of giving up their lives for the greater glory of Allah, and of murder on a massive scale. Men who've mastered all the modern Western technocratic skills, and who deploy them with the implacable determination of fanatics. Men whom most Americans, in their innocent and happy secularism, can scarcely comprehend and hardly ever gave a thought since that nearly bloodless cartoon war in the gulf. That innocence is now gone. For a decade now, these terrorists have been America's greatest threat. Its military muscle could have obliterated them long ago, but the will was never there. The tradeoffs were judged to be too great. Mr. Hussein and Mr. bin Laden are experts at survival. They are hard to catch, and surround themselves with men armed with guns and rocket launchers. Americans would not have been able to stomach too much loss of life to catch these men and the possibility of failure and political embarrassment was too great. And no one wanted to create another Islamic martyr. Everything will change now, will tip and destabilize in ways far beyond knowing. The Middle East, the world's economy, the American intelligence establishment, its entire defence strategy, the way it fights its foes. Millions of people of Islamic faith unfairly tarnished by the terrorism of a few. We have ahead the test by fire of a presidency. We will have agonizing stories of human suffering, too many to bear. We will have the dead, and countless families shattered, and grief and mourning beyond measure. But the wounds to America, though terrible, are very far from mortal. "Americans will persevere," said one New York woman Tuesday, staring hard into the camera. She had seen people die before her eyes. That was her message to us and to the men who did this. Shock and disbelief and grief will give way to anger and resolve. The fanatics and the terrorists will not prevail. The wider Arab world will not rally to support them, and America will not be driven away. Americans will persevere. But everything has changed, and the world will never go back to the way it used to be, before the madness began, at 8:45 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time. BS: Look, the Boston cell probably lived in Boston. They've probably been there for years. The government sheltering them is the American government. There isn't anybody to invade. They're Egyptians and Saudis. Thos governments are already our military allies. We can't invade those countries. There's no place to dress up and go shoot. This isn't World War II. As for bin Laden, by the standards of the Islamic resistance cells, the guy is a *humanitarian.* He *builds their hospitals.* He's not the mastermind of Al Qaeda. He's just a public face that the Western media have projected onto the network. They don't have or need a mastermind, and nabbing him, while satisfying, won't stop Al Qaeda any more than nailing Pablo Escobar makes people stop huffing crack.

Thanks for the links, Terry. I found the one about the buildings' structural aspects fascinating. Engineers suggested that the south tower of the World Trade Center collapsed first...because the plane hit the corner of the building, rather than the center, where there is more structural support. When you watched the head-on film, you wondered why the plane was aimed at the side when it could've been placed more centrally. But you have to wonder about the following statement: The planes might have done more damage if they had hit the buildings lower, but they had to fly at a height of about 60 stories to clear nearby buildings. More damage than what????

Even what was left standing is now crumbled into the pit from whence it arose. And thanks for telling future terrorists where exactly to hit a building to do the most damage, media people. I still cannot believe it crumpled like a toy like that. They all did. And so did their inhabitants. I turned on NPR this morning for a break from the news, and they were playing dirges. It was too much! Thanks, all, for your support in what seemed like a cold world before this happened. I wonder what I will feel when the numbness and disbelief wears off...

Will the numbness ever really wear off. Someone posted on Ramble that her neighbors and their 2 children were on the plane that crashed into the Pentagon.

from email: "In the days and weeks ahead, it's important for Microsoft and for each of us individually to think about how we can help. As a company, Microsoft is today making a $10 million contribution to assist those who have been impacted by the tragedy. We are contributing $5 million in cash to the September 11 Fund, created by the United Way of New York City and The New York Community Trust. In addition to cash, we are also contributing people and expertise. We have committed up to $5 million in technical assistance, including Microsoft Consulting Services and software to assist in the recovery effort. We also are in contact with business customers who have been severely impacted by yesterday's tragedy to see what we can do to assist them."

Penn Station and the Empire State Building being evacuated.

Bomb threat - no bomb found. People allowed back in. They now take all threats seriously!!!

Thursday 13 September 9:14 AM Bin Laden under house arrest: report Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia had placed alleged terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden under house arrest in the wake of the suicide attacks on the United States, an Arabic online newspaper reported. Quoting "fundamentalist Arab sources", Ilaf said the "Taliban have arrested Osama bin Laden before placing him under surveillance with several of his assistants," including the head of the Egyptian branch of Al-Jihad Ayman Al-Zawahri and bin Laden's military commander, Muhammad Atef Al-Makni. "A number of Afghan fighters are under house arrest along with bin Laden," said the report late Wednesday. But a diplomat at the Taliban's embassy in Abu Dhabi said he could not confirm the report. "All we know is that he (bin Laden) is somewhere in Afghanistan, but we are not aware if he is under house arrest," the diplomat said. Bin Laden and commander Atef have been indicted for the 1998 bombings of the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Bin Laden has emerged as the prime suspects in yesterday's kamikaze hijacked passenger jet strikes on New York and Washington.

I don't know how true this is or not. It was posted on yahoo.com in Australia. http://au.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/20010913/aapworld/1000336445-1141825578.html I don't know why there's not mention of this on CBS, which I'm watching as I write this.

More information all over the net. status of the investigation http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16714-2001Sep12.html Flight 93 Passenger Said He Planned Action http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/pit/news/stories/news-95780920010912-110907.html Controllers' Tale of Flight 11 http://www.csmonitor.com/earlyed/earlyUSA4.html FBI Agents Search Hotels; Arrests Made http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/957448/detail.html animation of the routes of flights 11, 193, and 175 http://pull.xmr3.com/p/29594-9681/22024263/aal11.html http://pull.xmr3.com/p/29594-9681/22024277/ual193final.html http://pull.xmr3.com/p/29594-9681/22024274/ual175_aal11.html Somerset Crash Scene Searched; "Hero" May Have Aborted Terror Mission http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20010912somersetp3.asp Cell Calls From Planes Reveal Horror http://msnbc.com/news/627214.asp How the World Trade Center Fell http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1540000/1540044.stm role of the Internet Net Offers Lifeline Amid Tragedy http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-7132246.html World Trade Center Staff Sent E-Mails After Planes Struck http://www.itn.co.uk/news/20010912/business/12cantor.shtml Help Sites Spring Up in Aftermath of WTC Assaults http://www.bizreport.com/article.php?art_id=2113 response Terrorism and Children http://www.ces.purdue.edu/terrorism/children/ http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Sept01/Garbarino.kids.bombing.lgk.html comment Chronic Underfunding of US HUMINT Plays Role in Intelligence Failures http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jdw/jdw010911_1_n.shtml Michael Moore's commentary http://www.michaelmoore.com/2001_0912.html On the Bombings, by Noam Chomsky http://www.lbbs.org/chomnote.htm The Best and Worst From Our Leaders During Crises http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=11909 Terrorists Are Made, Not Born http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/12/blowback/ The Rhetoric of War (with examples from editorial pages) http://www.marginalia.org/war.html an example of that rhetoric http://www.nationalreview.com/kudlow/kudlow091101.shtml background background on the Mt. Weather bunker where the politicians were probably taken http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/mt_weather.htm outline of relevant anti-terrorism etc laws http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/us/terrorism/laws.html Airport Access Control (one of the security reports that was never properly acted on) http://cas.faa.gov/ig5.pdf news Arab newspapers http://www.the-saudi.net/arab-world/media/newspapers-links.htm http://www.amin.org/jourmag/ French language news sources on the attack http://www.tv5.org/nyc/ Nous Sommes Tous Americains http://www.lemonde.fr/article/0,5987,3222--221600-,00.html worldwide news in English http://www.kidon.com/media-link/english.shtml Thousands of Newspapers on the Net http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/ end

Be happy you don't live in Hawaii. We Get NO MAIL until the flights resume.

I'm not going to be happy I don't live in Hawaii, that's too much to ask!

a report from Afghanistan: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/international/asia/13AFGH.html ABUL, Afghanistan, Sept. If there are Americans clamoring to bomb Afghanistan back to the Stone Age, they ought to know that this nation does not have so far to go. This is a post-apocalyptic place of felled cities, parched land and downtrodden people. The fragility of this country was part of the message the Taliban government conveyed in a plea for restraint issued late tonight. It said in part, "We appeal to the United States not to put Afghanistan into more misery because our people have suffered so much." Whatever Afghanistan's current cataclysm, its next one seems to require little time to overtake it. Wars fought by sundry protagonists have gone on now for 22 consecutive years, a remorseless drought for 4. Since 1996, most of the nation has been ruled by Taliban mullahs whose vision of the world's purest Islamic state has at least as much to do with controlling social behavior as vouchsafing social welfare. The accused terrorist Osama bin Laden has found a home here, angering much of the world. In 1998, America fired a volley of more than 70 cruise missiles at guerrilla training camps reportedly operated by the Saudi multimillionaire. Now, there seems to be the prospect of another barrage, with Afghan hospitality to the same man as the cause. As fear of an American attack mounted, the Taliban's senior spokesman in Kandahar, Abdul Hai Mutmain, called the few foreign reporters here to issue the statement, which in part defended Mr. bin Laden: "These days, Osama bin Laden's name has become very popular and to an extent it has become a symbol. These days, even to the common people, Osama bin Laden's name is associated with all controversial acts. Osama bin Laden does not have such capabilities. We still hope sanity prevails in the United States. We are confident that if a fair investigation is carried out by American authorities, the Taliban will not be found guilty of involvement in such cowardly acts." The statement also said, "Killing our leaders will not help our people any. There is no factory in Afghanistan that is worth the price of a single missile fired at us. It will simply increase the mistrust between the people in the region and the United States." Whatever else there is to say about this entreaty, one part that is indisputably true is that this land-locked, ruggedly beautiful nation is in absolute misery. Here in Kabul, the capital, roaming clusters of widows beg in the streets, their palms seemingly frozen in a supplicant pose. Withered men pull overloaded carts, their labor less costly than the price of a donkey. Children play in vast ruins, their limbs sometimes wrenched away by remnant land mines. The national life expectancy, according to the central statistics office, has fallen to 42 for males and 40 for females. The prolonged drought has sent nearly a million about 5 percent of the on a desperate flight from hunger. Some have gone to other Afghan cities, others across the border. More than one million are "at risk of starvation," according to the United Nations. Famine is the catastrophe Afghans are used to hearing about. Few yet know of the threat of an American reprisal. The Taliban long ago banned television, and the lack of electricity keeps most people from listening to radio. The nation's 100 or so foreign aid workers suffer no such telecommunications handicaps, however, and today many of them began to flee their adopted home, fearing either the havoc of American bombs or the wrath of subsequent Afghan outrage. Around noon, a special United Nations flight evacuated the first of the expatriates. The remaining foreigners are expected to leave on Thursday, as will three, and perhaps all four, of the American parents here to observe the trial of their children, among eight foreign aid workers accused by the Taliban of preaching Christianity. As foreigners left, the Taliban took unusual precautions: they began searching every vehicle entering government compounds. Visitors were carefully frisked. But however much the Taliban hierarchy was beginning to fret, streets and bazaars were a picture of normality. Word has spread slowly about the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington. And even when everyday Afghans heard the news, there were no accompanying video images to sear the horror into their memories. Personal conversations only carried the dull stimuli of abstract words: hijacked planes and collapsed buildings. Khair Khana, a man selling fertilizer in a market, knew just a bit about the attack. He thought a plane had crashed into the White House. And he considered the perpetrators, whoever they are, to be "enemies of God," though he also felt "Americans should look into their hearts and minds about why someone would kill themselves and others" in such a way. He had not thought much about an American retaliation against Afghanistan. When he did consider it, standing in a ramshackle collection of stalls, he shrugged and said: "Americans are powerful and can do anything they like without us stopping them." Nearby, a tailor, Abdul Malik, saw God's justice in America's pain because, as he understands it, the United States has armed the Afghan resistance to fight against the Taliban. "So they at least now know how it feels in their own country," he said. As for Mr. bin Laden, the tailor considered judgment of him to be God's affair. "If Osama is Islam's enemy, he should be gotten rid of," he said. "But if he is a good Muslim and wants Islam to and if America wants him then we hope he destroys America." The common people of Afghanistan are often circumspect with their opinions. As one man said today: "Nobody here talks wholeheartedly any more; it can be dangerous." The Taliban are credited with improving safety. They disarmed the population, they put an end to banditry. But the security has come at a steep price. Women have been forced into head-to-toe gowns known as burqasand evicted from schools and the workplace. Men are obligated to wear long beards or face jail. Banned are musical instruments, chessboards, playing cards, nail polish and neckties. Cheers at soccer matches are restricted to "Allah-u-akbar,"or God is great. Freedom of speech has bowed to religious totalitarianism. Various Taliban police forces patrol the streets. Today, in a derelict building that is used as a precinct office, one 25-year-old constable sat on the floor beneath a single dangling light bulb. His name was Muhammad Anwar. He had heard something about the attack in America but he had no idea how many were killed or what cities were involved. Indeed, it seemed unlikely that he had ever heard of New York. "Attacks like these are not a good thing because Muslims live all over the world and Muslims may have been killed," Mr. Anwar said hesitantly. By his reckoning, Americans were enemies of Afghanistan, as were Jews and Christians. He thought about this a bit more and retracted it partially. "There must have been all kinds of people in the building, not just bad Jews but good Jews, not just bad Christians but good ones." He remembered something he had learned in his madrassa, or religious school. "It is un-Islamic to kill innocent people," he said.

You're not any different, Marcia. Mail is not going between cities on the mainland either.

I heard mail wasn't going over 300 miles from it's point of origin. The airlines carry most of the mail but they may not be allowed to carry it any more.

Yup, back to barge and 2-week mail. From the west coast. It is nice to know there is company in the misery of Paradise.

This very thought provoking piece was written by the impassoned Gerard Van der Leun, who has been on the scene all along in lower Manhattan. All day the images have repeated themselves on television while the smell of the smoke persisted in my rooms. Off and on, all day, I walked to the promenade to look at the reality of it and watch the smoke that didn't stop. It will now play itself out, over and over again in my mind, until the day of my own death. Television and reality. It is very difficult to separate the two, and when one has no reality, television is the thing that replaces it. And because it is through television that those responsible for this monstrous act receive their impression of this country I believe they have made a fundamental miscalculation about the deeper nature of the United States. A miscalculation that will cause to be visited upon them what I pray will be a terrible lesson; a lesson that will make the survivors envy the dead. If you look at television and the endless products of pap and nonsense that are piped out of the media centers of the United States, it is easy to see us as a weak, self-obsessed and foolish people. And many of us are that, even if we pretend to be other than weak, self-obsessed and foolish. We have sitcoms and MTV. We have endless opinions about things which are not really central to serious life questions and serious policy decisions. Our young people look foolish in their vanity and their fashions. Our military institutions are often ridiculed. Our entertainments are light and vapid. Many in positions of influence give short shrift to millions more with deeply held religious and traditional political convictions. Our "major" issues on a day by day basis rarely rise above the level of fretful worry about the "safety of restaurants that allow smoking," or whether or not a flower will be threatened by an oil well. These are serious issues to many Americans, and it is easy to see why such wet and weak concerns would lead others elsewhere in the world to hold us in contempt as a weak and decadent society that cannot defend itself against attack. They see our men as feminine and our women as masculine and, to the fundamentalist mind, this signals a weakness in the blood and bone of the nation.They believe that they can attack such a society with a kind of impunity, or with the expectation of a careful and delicate response. They even note that our President is a man who communicates in a clumsy way, who is an illegitimate ruler, and who does not have the support of many of the ruling elites of the country. They hold him to be easily frightened and stupid. And perhaps he is many, if not all, of these things: clumsy, weak, illegitimate, frightened and stupid. But it will not, in the long run, matter. And I pray it does not avail them. That is all the television America. But there is and always has been another America, and it is this America that I hope will emerge from this day and remind all those who seek to harm us that we can be a nation that is as terrible as it seems foolish. That we are a country of deep resolve and capable of striking back in cold anger without compassion or regret. That we are, as the Japanese knew and were to discover, a sleeping giant and you wake us at your own risk. And once woken we will destroy you, and then rebuild you. The Japanese had their lesson and have learned. Germany had it's lesson and has learned. Now it is the turn of a number of nations in the middle east. We will first tend to our dead. Many funerals will take Place over the next month or so. At the same time we will also prepare for our vengence and I pray it will be terrible and without hesitation or compassion until all terrorists and all the villages, cities, and nations that support them are reduced to rubble. This will be an America whose anger is not hidden beneath grief and the committment to save those not yet dead in the rubble of New York and Washington. This is the America you see when you watch the head of the Fire Department of New York try to express his feelings at losing 300 men in one terrible moment. This is the America of the thousands of rescue workers on the job tonight trying to dig through the rubble. This is the America of terrible resolve that you can read on the face of the Head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he states the military is ready to do whatever is required of it. "Whatever is required of it",and I pray we require them to visit horror on our enemies that is a thousand fold worse than what we saw today. You see, it doesn't really matter "who" is the President. It matters only that there is a President. The President is only one man and in times like this he does not really have to lead. He has only to follow and get out of the way. After that what takes place will be done by many, many others in the hundreds and thousands. These people will not be a group of lame celebrities with their puling little concerns whose lives are just roles on television. They will not be a host of sensitive new-age babblers whose fantasies of a perfect world blind them to the evil of this one and the need to tear it out root and branch. These will be Americans with terrible tools and with even more terrible weapons, and the skill and the will to use them. They will be filled with a terrible intensity and, I hope, a deep sense of mission which will not be lightly put aside. This mission should be clear to everyone who has some experience of the world and how the world operates... how reality operates. This mission should be nothing less than one that is willing to use whatever means necessary to target terrorism and to destroy it, wherever it exists. If this means the wholesale destruction of nations, so be it. This mission should be to remind the world that while we are a nation committed to peace, we are a nation to be feared at war. We have the power to do this. We must use it without hindrance. If peace needs to be purchased with the sword, we should be ready to do this. We must become what we were during the Second World War - ruthless and unrelenting. Those who think we are only what they see on our foolish television, need to have a hard and burning lesson on who we are when we decide to turn off the sit-coms and get real. If we cannot do this, we will suffer this again and we will deserve it. The time to fill ourselves with the resolve to crush this monster is now and I pray we are up to the task. Thanks Gerard.

More from Gerard. attack.20.430: Gerard Van der Leun (boswell) Tue 11 Sep 01 08:20 I watched this happen. The enormity of it cannot be communicated. Vile and bestial. We need to destroy any and all capacity anywhere to do anything like this happening ever again. There were thousands in those buildings. Thousands. There is no justice swift enough or sure enough. But all that we have must be brought forward and used without restraint. This is an act of war beyond Pearl Harbor. Military jets overhead again. More ash on the street. attack.20.465: Gerard Van der Leun (boswell) Tue 11 Sep 01 08:34 I am cooled down. Way down., This is pure evil. attack.20.725: Gerard Van der Leun (boswell) Tue 11 Sep 01 12:33 There is no more World Trade Center visible from the Promenade. But you can smell it from there a sort of burnt stench as if someone lit newspaper in a trash can and then poured water on it. That kind of wet burnt stench. It is bright in the sunshine now except for where the Trade Centers stood and there is still a plume of thick brown smoke mouldering up from there and making the sun behind it look dim. Just now I saw three large military helicopters land across the river from the Heights on the big pad at the foot of Wall Street. People on the streets are talking quietly man of them on cells now that some of those nets are back up. Everything is as quiet as it was this morning When I got up and began to take a shower. Showering I felt a vibration shake my building in Brooklyn Heights like a subway train passing deep underneath the structure. I didn't think much of it. I've felt similar vibrations before. Getting out I was dressing and I heard the second explosion from the second plane striking the buildings. I turned on the radio and found out what was happening. I dressed and left the house and walked a block to the Promenade at the edge of Brooklyn Heights and saw both towers in flames sending huge gouts of smoke into the air. You don't know what to think. You don't know what to feel. You are just reacting. The promenade was jammed with people with more arriving. Then as I watched the first tower just imploded and plunged, it seemed to me, straight down and a huge brown and black rolling cloud of smoke came boiling through all the streets between the building and surged upward and took over the sky. You could see bright shiny bits of metal squares tumbling up and down and drifting out of the smoke that moved up and blew out to the south east... it was like confetti or stuff tossed out of windows in a ticker tape parade. I felt the sound before I heard it and it shook everything around me. I heard gasps and screams around me. People were turning away. Everyone with children was leaving the promenade. Some were moving closer. The smoke took over everything. I knew that anyone in that building was dead and I started to shake and to weep and to look around at the others who were in all states of reaction. And I had to go back to my house to regroup. After I was in the house for a few minutes I heard another larger explosion. I went back out and down to the promenade again but this time I couldn't see the sky as I had before. This time the whole sky had been darkened and, the wind having shifted, this fine white ash was swirling down the street. Not heavy, but everywhere around me and it was settling down lightly on all the surfaces. When I got to the promenade again the entire southern tip of Manhattan was enveloped in a dirty brown cloud, No buildings visible at all. Nothing. It filled the sky and made it dark. Turning the corner if you looked uptown past the Brooklyn Bridge which was filled with hordes of people walking towards the Brooklyn shore you could see the buildings start to emerge from the smoke. People were sparse on the promenade now although down towards the end there were more and if you walked down there you could see a little bit into the downtown section of Wall street. And there were ferries moving out of the smoke at high speed. And then I started to hear the military jets but I didn't see them. But no other planes are to be seen. Now it is still smoking there. The trade centers are just gone. Erased. 50,000 people they say work there and 150,000 pass through. What do I feel? I don't know what I feel except that I want vengeance and complete vengeance. I want everything this country possesses put onto the people who did this, and the people who supported this act, and the people who believe this is the way in which political ends are achieved. I want there to be a war and a big war until these people are eradicated who ever they are and where ever they are. I want it made clear that anything even approaching this evil act will be met with utter destruction - people, families, villages, cities, nations. This is an act of war and war must be the response. We will be having a long series of mass funerals for many weeks. I only hope that this country finds the stomach and the resolve to carry retribution forward until it is complete. That is what I feel, now, today. And I'm not alone. I'm not alone at all. attack.20.733: Gerard Van der Leun (boswell) Tue 11 Sep 01 12:42 We need to be in a state of War and to pursue the real aims of war. Against what country? Against a list of countries that support, harbor, or approve of terrorism. A list of countries. All of them. And we need to take action that is terrible and unilateral. Individuals, families, villages, cities, nations.. all must be pursued and eliminated. There needs to be revenge and there needs to be a balancing of the scales. This is the greatest single evil act against Americans in history. It cannot be allowed to stand.

that's exactly how I feel. i found my friend who works for oem, btw. he's ok. he was evacuated when the mayor was from 7 WT. he told me about some of the things he saw... i started to cry. he's still in shock. God bless America.

terry, what address are you finding this on??

Wow Liz, I'm so glad he's safe. Aren't these words from Gerard pregnant with feeling from someone who's been there, smelled and tasted the horror first hand? Powerful, heartfelt words.

Gerard posted this at well.com and gave me permission to repost. It's not on a public web address. More . . . Gerard Van der Leun (boswell) Wed 12 Sep 01 08:05 To answer leroy, I am back at my absurd day-job. So far I'm just about the only one here. Maybe eight people out of 200+. I don't know quite why I am here, but then, in truth, I'm never sure why I am ever here other than that my personal life obligations require me to be here. That may have to change. At any rate, I woke up and could only take about five minutes of the endlessly repeated images of disaster, and having, literally nothing better to do, decided to try and come in. I first walked to the Promenade to see where the Towers were. The vile smoke blooming across the river was still there as it has always been, probably as it always will be in my mind where I will see it first as that moment when the first tower went down carrying thousands to a death I cannot imagine. Still there. And the faint smell lingers too. And there were small clumps of people standing around, one couple even posing for a picture against the new skyline. Then I walked through streets in the Heights that barely had any people on them. Usually full and bustling even on holiday weekends. Now just some elderly people moving slowly and a few clots of Jehovahs Witnesses in their cleaned and pressed clothing going down to put out what I am sure will be an especially "We told you so" issue of the Watchtower. Clark Street station shut down with a few police directly people to the Jay street station. Buy a New York Post because I've read the Times. Walk to Jay Street in the heart of the Brooklyn government center across streets with few pedestrians and no traffic except for police, fire and security vehicles cruising aimlessly about or parked at the curb. Security in front of the courts and the city offices lounging in the bright sunshine of this second day of Indian Summer weather. Down into the Jay Station and a very sparsely occupied A train. We set off on a slow, very slow trip into Manhattan. Several people are reading bibles but most of the 15 or so people are just staring into space and looking vaguely alarmed whenever the train halts between stations -- which is often. I spend this time reading the New York Post which has, inside, a picture of the exterior of one of the towers just before it collapsed. In this picuture I can count around 24 people poking their heads out of the windows or actually on the outside of what has to be the nintieth floor of the towers. All of them, ALL OF THEM, about to ride this building down into oblivion and you know that THEY ALL KNOW THIS. Next to this is a picture of the side of the Tower and a large empty space on the left which is thin air. In this space, close to the tower you can see five to seven people falling with nothing but space above and below them, falling straight down into doom rather than be burned alive. Finally, the train pulls into 23rd Street and halts. After a minute or so you can hear the announcer telling us that we will be held in the station for some time because of a "police investigation" in Penn Station, my destination. I get out and go up to the street to walk the rest of the way. An I walk into a Manhattan I have never seen in the almost 30 years that I've been here. Streets almost utterly clear of traffic for as far uptown or downtown as you can see on 8th Ave. Nearly the same thing on 7th. A smattering of pedestrians that grows somewhat thicker as you approach Penn Station. A nail salon open but with nobody getting their nails done that I can see. Extortionate parking lots that are usually jammed with cars almost empty and with nobody there to collect the money. On the street parking? Oh, we've got it now. Everywhere the hush. Everywhere. Like a ghost town with real ghosts now walking among us. People just standing around, people talking softly on cell phones, and people talking to themselves. On every corner small groups walking slowly into the street or ambling along the sidewalks as if nothing they normally do on Wednesdays in New York City is really all that important after all.

Gerard Van der Leun (boswell) Wed 12 Sep 01 19:05 On blood and the giving of it in New York. It is important to do this, but no longer because of the need. It is pretty clear at this point in the evening of day 2 in New York that the city has more than enough of what it needs to cover for this present emergency. Still, people should give because it is something than they can give. That is the need it fills. As for blood for the wounded and the suffering, there is now a sufficient quantity. And sadly this is because, with the exception of a few miracles that I hope will happen over the next few days, there will not be large numbers of injured beyond those who are already receiving treatment. We are now starting to see the bodies emerge and they will continue in a ghastly parade of orange body bags for weeks now. Soon, tomorrow and over the weekend, the funerals and the memorials will begin. And they will go on and on and on. We will have, if we are *fortunate* 10,000 funerals in this city in the coming weeks. Let me say that again: Ten *thousand* funerals. Try, right now, to close your eyes and visualize this number of funeral ceremonies of every type and description and religion. You cannot do it because the enormity of it is too much for the human mind and soul. But we will have them, one by one and in groups. And here is another fact that comes along behind this number. We do not have enough graves. We do not have enough crematoriums. Many will go unburied for weeks. Many will be burned because that will be the only choice. Many will have to be moved by train, plane, or van to some other place in the state, country, or the world. And we will bury a thousand, and then another thousand, and another. And still the orange body bags will come up out of the pile and the pit one by one by one and lie in rows. And this will go on for weeks if not months. Think about what this will be like. Just stop and try to really see it. And then think this: No matter what many may feel now about the wisdom or the goodness or the morality of retribution, there will come a time during this parade of our dead when this country, already uniting in a way I cannot remember in my 55 years, will have even a greater sea-change of spirit and rage. Many of those who do not really feel this now, for whatever enlightened or unenlightened reason, will feel this change and become part of it. There will be those who do not, a smaller and smaller part of us as the days go by, and they will in the end be left behind. But by far the most of us will be changed by this, even if now we are not. Ten thousand funerals. We cannot imagine it, and yet we will live it. And I hope that each one of us can bear witness to as many as we can bear. It is the least of our duties.

Thanks for that Terry. G's first post is amazing. It says beautifully the resolve and structure of America. Thanks for sharing it.

And his second one is even more powerful. Beware the wrath of righteous indignation.

Thank you, Gerard, for speaking so eloquently what we were all feeling. Ten THOUSAND is the size of a good-sized town. Imagine your entire city dead...

The NY Port Authority is now putting the potential death toll at 20 thousand. I shudder to think what made them increase this up from the earlier figure of 10 thousand. Hopefully, it is just pure conjecture, as the figure of 20 thousand, is just beyond comprehension.

Never forget!!! Hawaii was shocked into action by terrorist acts thousands of miles away yesterday, putting isle military bases on highest alert, grounding air traffic and sending many residents to blood banks and churches. U.S. Navy warships were patrolling the West Coast and Hawaii, ready to respond to any terrorist threat. Lt. Cmdr. Jeff Gordon, a Pacific Fleet spokesman at Pearl Harbor, said the 15 ships patrolling Hawaii waters were deployed or redirected as a precautionary measure, not because of a specific threat. Military bases in Hawaii remained closed today to those without military identification for the second straight day after yesterday's plane hijackings and crashes. More http://starbulletin.com/2001/09/12/news/

Actually, 20,000 was about what I had imagined from the beginning, given the capacity of the two buildings, number of people per floor, etc. Over 200 floors. There could be easily 100 people per floor, despite the steady stream of people getting out after the first attack. I remember one newsperson saying that highest number of American casualties on a single day was in the Civil War battle of Antietam, where about 23,000 were killed.

I wonder if we will ever get an accurate accounting. The fires continue to burn deep inside the hole made by one of the towers. It will simply have to burn itself out since it is too hot and too dangerous to get to now. Frightening! I was asked to post this and so I shall: Flags Across America To show those terrorists that we Americans stick together, FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 14 is "Flags Across America." All Americans are asked to display the American flag either in their homes or cars. Let's keep the meaning of UNITED in "United States". Pass this onto as many people as you know. THANK YOU.

I know Karen, I know... When that figure of 10,000 was initially announced, I thought it was too low, considering the massive amounts of people in the 2 towers. But after a trajedy like this, it is easy and comforting to stick your head in the sand and try to pretend the worst is not going to happen. All too soon, the cold hard reality will get to you, no matter how long you try to put it off.

This is YOUR LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEM, a free newsletter sharing life, love and laughter, published by Steve Goodier. http://www.lifesupportsystem.com I asked for it! I invited a response and now am flooded with mail! It may take days to go through it all. Today I printed some of YOUR words in lieu of my usual message. I hope you feel encouraged by the spirit in which they were written. ~ Steve _________________From the Mailbox__________________ Write to Publisher@LifeSupportSystem.com I want to express my great condolence to people of America. I want to say aloud my personal absolute negative expression about the terrorist attack innocent people in New York and Washington. Dostoevsky said there are no great goals to justify the crime if it costs a little tear of child, and how many tears (were shed by) this outrage act? ~ Your subscriber (Kiev, Ukraine) Know that the pain and suffering of Americans is also felt across the mass of water here in Australia. ~ Joanna (Perth, Australia) Let those of us who can, hold a vision of peace, even between ourselves and those who would destroy us. Let those of us who can see the Light, be the Light. ~ A friend Everything came to a standstill here (South Africa) yesterday afternoon at about 3.00 p.m. our time when we first heard the news of the horror! What I do want to say, from our small space, far away from you all in America, is that we grieve for the whole nation and all of you are in our prayers and thoughts -- constantly. ~ Caroline (South Africa) The Canadian People Send Their Deepest Condolences to Our American Friends. We are shocked and horrified, as most Americans are, as soon as we heard the news many rallied, giving blood to the Canadian Red Cross in anticipation of the need by those that might need it. America is our fiend and neighbour, and those that hurt America hurt us. We hope that we never see another tragedy as this again. ~ Doug (Canada) Thank you! Even with all that you and your family have been going through, you have still managed to send inspiration to those of us in need! With all of the negativity out there yesterday, and the "Nuke 'EM" attitude among a lot of Americans that called into CNN and the radio stations here in Chicago, I began to find myself getting more upset about them than the tragedy that caused their feelings. Thank you for reminding the many people who forget in times like this that we are all one -- most humans do NOT believe that the killing of innocents is right, no matter what race! Here in Chicago, an Arab education meeting was hit with a molotov cocktail -- this is exactly what we DON'T need! Thanks again for your call to Americans to see the truth and work through our grief with LOVE! ~ Kelli (Chicago, Illinois) I, like so many of us in the US, live complacently from day to day without fear of danger. Then a tragedy like this occurs and reminds us of the fragility of life and how important it is for us to set aside our differences and all join hands in common bond. ~ Mal (Pasadena, Texas, USA) I live in Barbados, a small island in the West Indies (Caribbean). The tragedy of yesterday shook us here as well. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone in the States. May God continue to strengthen your nation and be with every one of your leaders as they make decisions and try to rebuild the country. ~ Marie (Barbados) A great gloom has descended on Australia today and will remain for a while to come. The streets were empty in peak hour this morning as people stayed home to watch in horror as the event was broadcast across the nation. And this gloom has remained the whole day, with the attack being just about the only thing on peoples minds. America is far from alone in its hurt and sorrow and we will do whatever we can to help our fellow humans. ~ Nikki (Gold Coast, Australia) I hope that from yesterday events we may learn at least one lesson: that hate only brings violence and destruction. "Love thy enemy" was not written in vain. I pray that the hurt we all feel today does not develop into hate and desire for revenge. ~ Olga (Puerto Rico, USA) My thoughts from South Africa are with you in this dark hour. But I know that you are a country of strong people. People that will support each other and together stand up to become even stronger. ~ Ronelle (Gauteng, South Africa) I am thankful to you always for the positive, uplifting words. I look forward to my daily emails. I never needed them more than I needed them today. I was one of hundreds in Jersey City, at Exchange Place, who watched this event unfold to our shock, horror and disbelief. Thanks for giving me something to hold on to. ~ TL Everything has changed today. Our nation, our world, our civilization. If we are not extremely careful, we could surrender our future to these terrorists in exchange for the perception of peace and security. The terrorists demonstrated that the United States is a free and open country. We have paid a price for having an accessible society. Accessible to all, for whatever purpose they desire. Accessible for good or evil. ~ Eric I light a candle that is burning as a vigil in my home reminding me that Light overcomes darkness. I fly the American flag outside my home at half mast. I turn my headlights on my car to light the way, in my way, for those who feel lost right now. ~ Y.M. Many leaders interviewed on TV have already been saying, if we as mankind would unite during times of peace as we do in tragedy, then we will be able to remove all bad things, including hunger, homelessness, and despair. That is a proactive point of view. ~ Randy ________________________________________________ To subscribe by email, forward this message to: LifeSupport-subscribe@yahoogroups.com To advertise on Your Life Support System, write to this address: advertising@LifeSupportSystem.com For Free stuff! http://www.1freeplace.com/health-life.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: LifeSupport-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com For help unsubscribing, please write lss_publishing@yahoo.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

In addition to thousands of Americans killed they are now saying there were hundreds of UK citizens. My son (he works for a US bank in London) has just got back from spending a week working in NY. He was in the WTC every day. The world really is a global village. What happens to the US happens to us all.

http://tibet.com/NewsRoom/hhdl-letter.htm The Dalai Lama speaks.

The world really is a global village. What happens to the US happens to us all. Let's hope this unity works in the hard task ahead. There are some flights flying into Miami. They seem to be flying lower than usual. Where once we could barely hear them now they are very loud. Very scary. :-(

Thank goodness that your family was spared, Allison. I was thinking about Ben's brother. Isn't he in NYC and probably in that part of it?

Ben's brother works (I believe) for Morgan Stanley, who have (had) 21 floors of the South WTC tower, although it's not their head office in NYC. MS reported yesterday that over 85% (and growing) of their WTC staff had survived. So his odds are good.

Thanks, Mark, for the update. The other night I was watching BBC news' coverage on one of my PBS channels and they were talking about all the foreign nationals who worked in the financial sector.

That's right, Karen. Just like here in London, the NYC financial services industry is one of the most multi-national workforces around. Obviously, the BBC is concerned to take some time focusing on the number of Britons involved, but there will be many nationalities amongst the dead, along with the thousands of Americans. A colleague of mine reports that his NY counterpart works in a suburb in which nearly everybody commutes to Manhattan. Every few doors down the street there was a worker who never came home on Tuesday. Personally, three of my four previous firms had offices in the WTC. It brings the tragedy close to home, but not as close as for the family members and friends of the 20,000.

(Mark) MS reported yesterday that over 85% (and growing) of their WTC staff had survived. So his odds are good. Yes, I heard that about MS also. They credit a 'split second decision to evacuate' after the first plane hit the other tower. It seems to me alot more people got out than you might expect (credit the '93 bombing for that). Yet the stories of those searching for their loved ones, who called before 9 a.m. to say they were OK but who worked above the 90th floor, are absolutely heartbreaking. This will continue for weeks. (Beth) The White House and ABC News have confirmed that the intended target of the plane that crashed in DC, was NOT The Pentagon. It was The White House. OMG !! The White House have also confirmed that Air Force One and The President, were also intended targets. They have not revealed what brought them to this conclusion. I'll tell you--this is spin. Georgie's being criticized for not returning to DC until late afternoon. The plane which hit the Pentagon, the press sec'y says, circled over the White House first. They may have more 'clear and convincing' evidence that the White House and Air Force One (a plane? They're going to hit a plane with a plane with so many other gov't targets around? George was on the ground in Fla. at the time of the attacks) were targeted, but I'm not biting. Though they could've indeed gone for the White House and done far more damage to the country--Dick Cheney was at his desk. ;-P

On Doomed Flight, Passengers Vowed to Perish Fighting By JODI WILGORENand EDWARD WONG They told the people they loved that they would die fighting. In a series of cellular telephone calls to their wives, two passengers aboard the plane that crashed into a Pennsylvania field instead of possibly toppling a national landmark learned about the horror of the World Trade Center. From 35,000 feet, they relayed harrowing details about the hijacking in progress to the police. And they vowed to try to thwart the enemy, to prevent others from dying even if they could not save themselves. More: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/13/national/13NEWA.html

Austin's Stratfor.com intelligence reports are some of the best: Situation Reports European markets stabilized in trading Sept. 12, helping to calm the major Asian markets entering the trading day Sept. 13. AFP reports that Tokyo, Hong Kong, Sydney and South Korea all posted minor gains after steep losses the previous day, though all markets remain fairly below pre-attack levels. Singapore dropped marginally, and Malaysia, Thailand and Taiwan -- which were closed Sept. 13 -- posted losses of between 4 and 7 percent. 1519 GMT, 091301 The Afghanistan opposition Northern Alliance, which opposes the ruling Taliban, has appointed a new military chief to replace leader Ahmad Shah Masood, Reuters reported. Masood was replaced with a general named Mukhammad Fakhim on Sep. 11, a few days after Masood was wounded in an attack. Conflicting reports have stated that Masood was actually killed in the attack. 1501 GMT, 091301 The Washington Post reports that the Bush administration is continuing to gather support for a possible strike against Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden and his supporters in Afghanistan, pressuring neighboring Pakistan for intelligence and logistical backing after winning full NATO support Sept. 12. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has pledged his country's full cooperation in the probe into the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the United States, VOA news reported, while Saudi Arabia has also reportedly offered its support. The Chinese government is appealing to the United States to consult with countries beyond Europe before launching an attack, BBC reported. 1430 GMT, 091301 Fox News reports that almost all of the hijackers involved in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks have been identified on flight manifests, including many Saudi and Egyptian nationals and one known supporter of Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, considered a prime suspect in the attacks. The news agency, citing law enforcement officials, said that a flight manifest from one of the four flights included the name of a suspected bin Laden supporter, while one person has also been arrested in connection with the attacks in Hamburg, Germany. 1427 GMT, 091301 U.S. authorities said at least one hijacker on each of the four planes used in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks was trained at a U.S. flight school, AP reported. Overall, 50 people may have been involved in the operation. Attorney General John Ashcroft said 12 to 24 hijackers commandeered the four planes, and a government official said another two dozen or so are believed to have assisted them, AP reported. The Los Angeles Times reports that about 40 of the men have been accounted for, including those killed in the suicide attacks, but 10 remain at large. The Times also reported at least one of the suspects receiving advanced flight training in Florida was a commercial pilot from Saudi Arabia. 1417 GMT, 091301 The Associated Press reports that a former employee at Huffman Aviation school in Venice Venice, Fla., said FBI agents told him that Mohamed Atta, who stayed in his home while training at the local flight school, was involved in the attack on the World Trade Center Sept. 11. The Miami Herald, citing federal authorities, reports that Atta was one of four suspects who died on American Airlines Flight 11, the first jetliner to crash into the center. A second student at Huffman Aviation, identified as Marwan Alshehhi, is also a suspect. 1410 GMT, 091301 Afghanistan's ruling Taliban Sept. 13 dismissed reports linking Osama bin Laden to terrorist attacks on the United States earlier on the week, and reiterated that they would not hand over the Saudi dissident, AFP reported. Reports had surfaced the previous day claiming that the Taliban had arrested bin Laden. The Taliban is reportedly preparing for a possible U.S. attack, sending its top leader into hiding and repositioning its military hardware throughout the country, The Washington Post reported, citing reports from Pakistani intelligence sources.1405 GMT, 091301 Federal aviation officials said they would allow air travel in the United States to resume Sept. 13 morning. U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft said authorities were deploying hundreds of U.S. marshals and other agents to airports and airplanes to increase security with the gradual resumption of commercial flights, AP reported. 1400 GMT, 091301 The Times of India has published a report originally carried by an Arabic online newspaper, saying that the Taliban has placed Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden and several of his assistants under house arrest in Afghanistan. A diplomat at the Taliban embassy in Abu Dhabi could not confirm the report. 2318 GMT, 091201 Armed sky marshalls and/or company security officials will accompany flights in the United States for at least a short period of time, possibly indefinitely, according to airline industry officials and the Department of Transportation. 2240 GMT, 091201 Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage told Pakistani Ambassador Maleeha Lodhi Sept. 12 that the United States expects full Pakistani cooperation on the search for perpetrators of Sept. 11 attacks on the United States, AFP reported. Secretary of State Colin Powell told reporters, "We thought � it would be useful to point out to the Pakistani leadership at every level that we are looking for and expecting their fullest cooperation and their help and support." Washington is concerned about Pakistan's relationship with Afghanistan's Taliban, which is suspected of harboring Osama bin Laden. Pakistan is one of only three countries worldwide that officially recognize the Taliban. 2355 GMT, 091201 Israeli intelligence officials briefing the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's cabinet Sept. 12 reported that a Middle East government likely sponsored the attack on the United States. They also identified Iraq as the most likely candidate, according to the Middle East News Line (MENL). The news report speculates that Iraq may have financed the operation and recruited Osama bin Laden, stating that Iraq maintains an alliance with bin Laden and radical Islamic groups. 2207 GMT, 091201 NATO's emergency council declared in a statement Sept. 12 that the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the United States fall under the alliance's mutual defense arrangements. This is the first-ever invocation of Article V of the North Atlantic Treaty, which calls for joint action in response to an attack on one alliance member. 2152 GMT, 091201 United Arab Emirates state TV reported Sept. 12 that two men identified by U.S. authorities as possible suspects in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks were carrying Saudi passports, AFP reports. The two suspects, Wa'el Mohammad al-Shihri and Ahmad Ibrahim Ali al-Hazzouni, reportedly carried international drivers licenses issued by the UAE and had rented a car which was later seized at Boston's Logan airport. 2150 GMT, 091201 The FAA announced late Wednesday afternoon that passenger air travel will resume temporarily to allow stranded travelers who were diverted Sept. 11 to reach their destinations. The partial opening will occur under heavily-intensified security precautions. The FAA said that it is not yet resuming normal operations due to continued security concerns. 2115 GMT, 091201 The Russian Foreign Ministry said Sept. 12 that Moscow and the European Union plan to step up cooperation to fight international terrorism follow the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States, AFP reported. 1935 GMT, 091201 U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan has asked central banks to limit the trading in dollars to prevent shocks to the global currency markets, CNNfn reported. The Fed is concerned that a large dollar transaction could create dangerous ripples and harm liquidity. As of Wednesday afternoon, the dollar was bouncing back from earlier losses, stabilizing at 119.38 yen to the dollar and .9067 dollars to the Euro, while trading was thin, AFP reported. Greenspan is due to return from Europe later today. 1935 GMT, 091201 Reacting to the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, Lebanese Information Minister Ghazi Aridi cautioned against "impulsive" accusations and suggested that the United States should reconsider some international policies that have earned it enemies, the Lebanese Daily Star reported. "There's a need for re-examining the 'New World Order' and the proposed globalization. There's a need for more cooperation and for building relations based on the respect for the rights of people and a just distribution of wealth, not the logic of force," Aridi said. 1935 GMT, 091201 In a national television address, Russian President Vladimir Putin called Sept. 12. for coordinated international action to combat terrorism, which he called the "plague of the 21st century," Agence France-Presse reported. He cited the 1999 bombings of apartment buildings in Moscow in condemning the attacks on New York and Washington. National news agency Interfax quoted Putin in a telegram to Bush as saying, "There is no doubt that such inhuman acts must be punished." Interfax also reported that Russia placed its national air defenses on full alert and that "anti- terrorism measures" were being enforced nationwide. 1935 GMT, 091201 A spokesman for British Prime Minister Tony Blair said Sept. 12 that the number of Britons who died in the Sept. 11 terrorist attack in the United States "could run into hundreds," AFP reported. 1930 GMT, 091201 In a statement Sept. 12 Taliban authorities offered to negotiate about the future of Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden if the United States could provide proof of his involvement in the recent terrorist attack on the United States, Kyodo News Service reported, although the group has made similar statements in the past. Reuters reports that the Taliban has beefed up security at government offices and closed the main airport in Kabul after it endured a rocket attack by anti-Taliban forces overnight. 1927 GMT, 091201 Kyodo News Service reports that the United Nations evacuation from Afghanistan will be completed Sept. 14, and will include a large number of foreign aid workers. CNN reported that U.N. staff were taking unusual measures such as taking key documents and computer discs with them. 1852 GMT, 091201 European stock markets strengthened somewhat despite the terrorist attacks on the United States Sept. 11, MSNBC reported. London's FTSE 100 INDEX closed 134.80 points higher at 4,880.80, or up about 2.8 percent, late Sept. 12. The Paris CAC 40 index closed 54.51 points higher at 4,114.26, up 1.34 percent. Frankfurt's DAX was up around 85 points, or 2 percent higher, at 4,358 in late-afternoon trading. 1850 GMT, 091201 Iraqi President Saddam Hussein said Sept. 12 that the United States was "reaping the thorns" of its foreign policy, in a commentary quoted by the official INA news agency on the terrorist attacks the previous day in New York and Washington. 1810 GMT, 091201 A plan to hijack commercial planes and fly them into U.S. targets was reportedly incorporated into a terror strategy by Ramzi Zhmed Yousef, who was sentenced to life imprisonment for masterminding the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993, Inquirer News Service reported. The plan was first uncovered in Manila in 1995 after police arrested four suspects in a plot to assassinate Pope John Paul II, and was passed on to U.S. officials by the Philippine government. At least four of Yousef's partners in the 1993 bombing have remained at large, increasing suspicions that they could be involved in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, D.C. 1758 GMT, 091201 The European Union is ramping up its own internal security measures for public transportation, airlines and around public buildings, Reuters reports, while Europol has set up a special task force for police agencies to exchange terrorism information. 1755 GMT, 091201 NATO ambassadors opened a debate Sept. 12 into whether terrorist attacks in New York and Washington represented an "armed attack" against the entire 19-nation alliance, AFP reported. If NATO nations agree on such a stance, the alliance could take "such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area." 1735 GMT, 091201 Citing its already fragile financial situation, as well as the impact of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Midway Air has suspended its operations and laid off 1,700 workers, AP reported. In a statement the company said "demand for air transportation is expected to decline sharply." 1734 GMT, 091201 CNN reports that FBI agents have taken several people in Boston and southern Florida into custody for questioning about the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on The World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The FBI is not calling them "suspects", but it does say they may provide material information on the case. Activity in Boston is centered around the Westin Copley Hotel and includes Boston police and SWAT teams. CNN reports that investigations in Florida are focusing their attention on several flight schools. 1720 GMT, 091201 CNN reports that the FBI has identified several suspects in the Boston area thought to be involved in the Sept. 11 hijackings and terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, D.C. The report was attributed to a "usually reliable" Boston television station but has not been confirmed by the FBI. 1708 GMT, 091201 The Jerusalem Post reports that Israel has put its air force and anti-aircraft batteries on increased alert and increased the number of its airborne patrols over Israeli airspace. The measures were taken to prevent any unwanted infiltration, air force sources said. Defense forces say no further significant security measures are being taken, as the country was already on a high alert status due to recent terrorist attacks. 1706 GMT, 091201 The Federal Aviation Authority said today that the ban on all U.S. air travel, originally set to end at noon Sept. 12, has been extended indefinitely, National Public Radio reported. The Pentagon is also reportedly being evacuated for a second day in a row. Parts of the Pentagon near the initial impact by a commercial airliner Sept. 11 are becoming increasingly insecure and there are concerns of further collapse, CNN reported. The secretaries of the U.S. Army and Navy have been moved to the building's basement. 1620 GMT, 091201 Ha'aretz reports that Israel reopened its airspace to foreign airline traffic today, though foreign flights must still gain special security clearance before landing. Israeli airspace was closed Sept. 12 due to concerns that the country could be targeted for attacks like those in New York and Washington, D.C. 1631 GMT, 091201 Israeli Defense Forces have ramped up attacks in the territories, The Jerusalem Post reported, saying 10 Palestinians were killed and over 30 wounded in overnight and morning attacks in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, following the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, D.C. Israeli tanks moved into the West Bank city of Jenin early on Sept. 12 and reportedly destroyed a Palestinian security headquarters and two suspected terrorist hideouts before withdrawing. 1635 GMT, 091201 The Taliban said Sept. 12 that any retaliatory strikes by the United States on Afghanistan and on Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect in the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, would fail and that Washington would not be able to find any person it targets, AFP reported, citing a Taliban spokesman. Bin Laden is living in Afghanistan under the Taliban militia's protection. The United Nations has ordered all 80 of its employees out of Afghanistan. 1553 GMT, 091101 Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden Sept. 12 congratulated the people who carried out the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, D.C., but denied that he was involved, AP reported, citing Abu Dhabi Television's bureau chief in Islamabad. U.S. Embassies in Yemen, Kuwait and Oman and the United Arab Emirates announced that they are closing indefinitely. 1333 GMT, 091201 The FBI has reportedly identified five suspects in connection with the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, ABC news reported, citing Boston Herald report. Investigators are searching Boston�s Logan�s airport, where two of the hijacked planes used in the assault originated, and reportedly believe two of the suspects flew from Portland, Maine, to Logan before the attack. 1328 GMT, 091201 Fox News, citing the Boston Herald, reported that two of the suspects so far identified in the search of Logan airport were brothers, one of whom was a trained pilot, and had passports traced to the United Arab Emirates. Reuters though quoted a UAE government source who said there is no evidence that any emirate nationals were aboard the hijacked planes. The Boston Globe reported that one of the five suspects� bags did not make the connection to the plane that was hijacked, and the luggage contained a copy of the Koran, an instructional video on flying commercial airliners and a fuel consumption calculator. The FBI also towed from the airport�s parking garage a rental car with a Virginia license plate that contained Arabic-language flight training manuals, ABC reported. 1325 GMT, 091201 Federal agents are planning to serve search warrants on a home or homes in south Florida of a passengers believed to be on one of the hijacked commercial planes used in the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Reuters reported, citing a local television channel report. The station gave no further details of the planned search other than saying it would focus on Davie, a city about 20 miles northwest of Miami, while the FBI was not available to confirm or deny. Fox News reported that at least one Middle Eastern student at flight school Embry-Riddle University in Daytona Beach, Fla., is missing, and that authorities are looking into reports he may have been on one of the hijacked planes. 1320 GMT, 091201 U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said Sept. 11 that there is �no way� that the United States was involved in bombings reported in Afghanistan �s capital Kabul. U.S. President George W. Bush also arrived back at the White House Sept. 11 after shuttling during the day between air force bases in Louisiana and Nebraska. 2257 GMT, 091101 Explosions around Kabul do not appear to be the result of U.S. action, despite speculation that that Saudi militant Osama bin Laden, who shelters in Afghanistan, was behind today's terrorist strikes in New York and Washington. Rather, Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia Sept. 12 launched a massive attack against opposition Northern Alliance forces north of the city. The attack follows allegations that Northern Alliance commander Ahmad Shah Masood died of injuries he received in an assassination attempt Sept. 10. Taliban and Northern Alliance forces have been winding up the summer fighting season over the past few weeks with extensive clashes north of Kabul, and in the northern province of Takhar. 2240 GMT, 091101 CNN showed footage of Afghanistan's capital Kabul under attack early Sept. 12, with explosions and anti-aircraft fire seen throughout the city. Numerous missiles were also seen heading to the city�s airport. The fighting is most likely the result of continued fighting between the opposition Northern Alliance and the ruling Taliban. 2211 GMT, 091101 The New York Stock Exchange has delayed trading indefinitely after the World Trade Center collapsed Sept. 12 following a terrorist attack. The Federal Reserve also announced it is ready to provide additional money to banks if needed. 2142 GMT, 091101 Air Security International has reported that Air Force One has left the Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska and is heading toward Washington, D.C. It also reports that subsidiary building 7 of the World Trade Center has collapsed and that building 5 may follow. AP also reported that the plane that struck the Pentagon was an American Airlines jetliner that had taken off from Dulles International Airport, and that officials say one of the passengers was Barbara Olson, the wife of Solicitor General Theodore Olson, who argues U.S. President George W. Bush's cases before the Supreme Court. 2116 GMT, 091101 Britain, Washington's closest ally, put its security forces on maximum alert Sept. 11 following terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, D.C, AFP reported. All U.S. military forces around the world are also now on Threat Condition Delta, the highest state of alert under the new system. 2123 GMT, 091101 Israel has closed its borders with Egypt and Jordan following the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, D.C., Sept. 11, Israeli public television reported. Israel earlier closed its airspace for 24 hours to incoming foreign aircraft, and its air force has been placed on high alert. U.S. authorities also boosted surveillance around the U.S. base in Incirlik, southern Turkey, but a spokesman would not specify the level of alert to which troops at the base were posted, AFP reported. The base holds a force of some 40 British and U.S. planes which patrol the no-fly zone over northern Iraq. NATO ambassadors are scheduled to meet in Brussels, while European Union foreign ministers are due to meet early Sept. 12. 2052 GMT, 091101 Fox News is citing a Middle East Broadcasting report which said the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine is now denying involvement in today�s attacks in New York and Washington, D.C., despite earlier reports which said the group had claimed responsibility. Two other Palestinian groups, Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, also denied responsibility for the attacks, but blamed U.S. policies in the Mideast, CNN reported. Despite earlier denials by the Taliban, CNN also said government sources have good indications that those involved in the attacks have links to suspected Saudi terrorist Osama bin Laden, although no details were given. 2002 GMT, 091101 The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries pledged Sept. 11 to maintain a stable oil supply following a rise in oil prices after the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, Kyodo news agency reported. OPEC Secretary-General Ali Rodriquez Araque said member nations will guarantee a sufficient supply of crude oil and are also prepared to use their excess production capability to maintain a stable supply. 1951 GMT, 091101 Fox News is reporting that the commercial airline that crashed into the Pentagon Sept. 11 was American Airlines Flight 77 en route from Dulles Airport in Virginia to Los Angeles. There were 58 passengers, four flight attendants and two pilots on board. A Fox News commentator was on the plane and reportedly made a call from her cell phone, officials said. Fox also cited United Airlines pilots who said UA Flight 175 was the second plane that crashed into the World Trade Center. The Boeing 767 carried 56 passengers, two pilots and seven flight attendants. 1942 GMT, 091101 Sources say that U.S. President George W. Bush has landed at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha, Nebraska, center of the Strategic Air Command, after leaving from Louisiana, local radio reported. Fox News also reports that Marine amphibious units are being deployed to Washington, D.C. 1935 GMT, 091101 Fox News is reporting that a U.S. judge last June had set Sept. 12 as the sentencing date for an associate of suspected Saudi terrorist Osama bin Laden for his role in the 1998 bombing of a U.S. embassy in Tanzania. The sentencing had been set for the federal courthouse near the World Trade Center, which was destroyed Sept. 11 after being hit by two commercial airliners. Fox is also reporting that a 911 dispatcher in Westmoreland County, Pa., received a cell phone call from a man who said he was a passenger locked in the bathroom of the United Airlines flight which crashed outside of Pittsburgh. The passenger reportedly said the plane was being hijacked. 1909 GMT, 091101 Reuters is reporting that Arabic satellite television channel MBC warned Sept. 8 that followers of suspected Saudi terrorist Osama bin Laden were planning a major attack on U.S. and Israeli interests in the next two weeks. Israeli Defense Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer also warned Sept. 10, the day before attacks on U.S. targets in New York and Washington, that "a coalition has been formed recently between terror organizations, Palestinians, Shiites and bin Laden operating against Israeli, American and European targets.� 1850 GMT, 091101 U.S. President George W. Bush will leave Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana for an undisclosed location, Reuters reported Sept. 11, citing a White House official. All airports in the United States have also been closed by order of the Federal Aviation Administration, the first time in U.S. history that air traffic nationwide has been halted, while all U.S. financial markets were closed as well, Fox news reported. 1838 GMT, 091101

Koppel said a Pakistani news agency quoted the taliban saying they do not have Bin Laden under house arrest or any other kind. Frontline is going to show an updated version of their documentary on Bin Laden on thursday. They also have an extensive website http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/

The LA Times has a detailed story FBI Identifies Team of 50 Attackers http://latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-091301terror.story

(Eileen) I'll tell you--this is spin. Georgie's being criticized for not returning to DC until late afternoon. I thought the same thing and said so to Ev last night. Bush was in Florida. Symbolically they might have wanted to hit the White House, but this is a crock to deflect newspapers' criticism. Unfortunately, most Americans do not realize that getting key government functions, including the President, to safety means taking them out of Washington and into bunkers and I'm sure the disaster scenarios for the presidency would involve moving him around. The hijackers wouldn't even have known he eventually went up in Air Force One or where it was headed. Totally idiotic. I bet we never see this 'credible' evidence.

http://www.rand.org/hot/newslinks.html#terror This is the URL for a Rand report on the state of U.S. anti-terrorism policy as of 2000. Executive summary: we don't have one. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/ This is a joint PBS/NYT site on bin Laden, dating from a little after the first WTC bombings.

The die has been cast. The lead story in the Thursday edition of the Washington Post is a detailed description of US negotiations with Pakistan and Tajikstan to provide a staging area or at least safe passage for a mission to track down Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20862-2001Sep12.html The second story starts by saying that Pentagon officials are keeping a tight lid on deployments and planning options, then proceeds to spill the beans extravagantly about the range of plans and preparations in progress for the effort to find and deal with Osama Bin Laden. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20806-2001Sep12.html

Plans underway for massive invasion of Afghanistan: http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,551079,00.html

A wired story reports that FBI agents are busy installing carnivore on ISPs http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46747,00.html

Anti-Attack Feds Push Carnivore By Declan McCullagh 2:00 a.m. Sep. 12, 2001 PDT WASHINGTON -- Federal police are reportedly increasing Internet surveillance after Tuesday's deadly attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Just hours after three airplanes smashed into the buildings in what some U.S. legislators have dubbed a second Pearl Harbor, FBI agents began to visit Web-based, e-mail firms and network providers, according to engineers at those companies who spoke on condition of anonymity. An administrator at one major network service provider said that FBI agents showed up at his workplace on Tuesday "with a couple of Carnivores, requesting permission to place them in our core, along with offers to actually pay for circuits and costs."

From the Guardian article: Nato is now drawing up an emergency plan for a massive attack on Afghanistan if proof emerges that Osama bin Laden, the wanted Saudi-born terrorist sheltered by Afghanistan, was responsible for the attacks. What do they mean by if? A signatory to a treaty is a signatory to a treaty. Also, they are making it sound like it's an obscure passage of the treaty. That it hasn't been invoked isn't relevant IMO. It is the backbone of the NATO alliance. Only the enemy has changed.

http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/misc/janes010911_2_n.shtml The hunt for Bin Laden begins.

According to NYPD radio scan police are reporting that Grand Central Station is right now being evacuated and strett traffic has been closed off in the last 10 minutes in that area. there were reports that a transit officer was approached by two passengers that a male dressed in tan was seen with a backpack with wires coming out of it and something attached around his waist. Police have not as of this minute located any peson matching this description. Now the report is that the package or backpack was left on a train from Greenwich, and that the terminal is completely evacuated.

(Eileen)Though they could've indeed gone for the White House and done far more damage to the country--Dick Cheney was at his desk. ;-P Oh Eileen, I am laughing in spite of myself, one of the few good laughs in days. Agree that it's spin, but who cares? The fragility of this country was part of the message the Taliban government conveyed in a plea for restraint issued late tonight. It said in part, "We appeal to the United States not to put Afghanistan into more misery because our people have suffered so much." They should have thought of this before they harbored and supported terrorists. And at whose hands have they suffered? They are asking us to show more caring for their people than they themselves have. And this culpability doesn't stop at the Afghan border. I really wonder if the world has the resolve and stomach to do what needs to be done in order to protect and preserve the greater good.

I really wonder if the world has the resolve and stomach to do what needs to be done in order to protect and preserve the greater good. We have lost some of our freedom. It will never be the same. In Miami one of the thoughts is that Castro might have supported these terrorists. Could you imagine also going after Castro? That would put Miami at a very high risk for attacks.

(Mari) Agree that it's spin, but who cares? It annoys me. Surely the White House has more pressing problems than Bush's political standing. We appeal to the United States not to put Afghanistan into more misery because our people have suffered so much ...as they pull out their AK-47s. Who are they kidding? Phooey.

(Mark) Ben's brother works (I believe) for Morgan Stanley...although it's not their head office in NYC... So his odds are good. I checked with Ben yesterday. You're right, Mark. His brother was midtown, and not in the WTC at the time, thank god. I tuned into a segement of the "Howard Stern" show yesterday morning... for some unknown reason. It's really very frightening at how "trigger happy" many people are after all this. It's understandable to want to express anger, but there were people calling in ready to invade the Arab/Muslim/South Asian neighborhoods, ready to take revenge. There have alrady been reports of violence. It's complete, total ignorance on their parts, and those callers represent a demographic of this country I'm very ashamed of.

(Mari) Agree that it's spin, but who cares? (Eileen) It annoys me. Me too, but not because of the political standing concern. Rather than make up lies, just tell the American public the truth of what they were doing and why and that is is SOP in such situations. Surely people would understand that. (Winter) those callers represent a demographic of this country I'm very ashamed of. Until/unless they violate someone's civil liberties or commit criminal acts, we have to tolerate such things as that is what our country's democracy is all about, i.e., standing up for people's rights to say the most vile things.

More from stratfor: U.S. Must Identify State Sponsors 0120 GMT, 010912 Summary The attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington, D.C., have sent shockwaves across the nation. While international Islamic terrorists organizations linked to Osama bin Laden's Al-Qa'ida group remain the top suspects, some have suggested nations opposed to U.S. global hegemony may also have been involved. Historically, international terrorism has needed state sponsorship in order to be successful. But such involvement would be tantamount to declaring war on the United States, and although the suspect list is long, there is little evidence at the moment that singles any one country out. Analysis The attacks on New York and Washington achieve a number of objectives for the perpetrators. On a strategic level, they demonstrate the vulnerability of the United States. In one fell swoop, the sophisticated and well-coordinated operation paralyzed New York City and the U.S. financial sector, sent the nation's government spiraling into chaos and struck terror in the hearts of the American public. Such a feat, accomplished with only four airline hijackings, is almost impossible to comprehend and will impact U.S. defense and foreign policy for decades to come. By immobilizing the U.S. financial sector, the strike threatens to push a nation, already suffering from a downturn, into recession. This will have ramifications for U.S. influence throughout the globe. It could also damage U.S. markets abroad as well as numerous other nations with economic ties to the United States. Understanding the impact of the attack is important for identifying likely suspects. There is good reason to suspect international terrorist organizations linked to Osama bin Laden's umbrella group, Al-Qa'ida. More important, however, is the question of which, if any, states might also have been involved. The article goes on in much more depth and there are several other articles worth reading at http://www.stratfor.com

From my son - his intraoffice email: The official word from the FAA about the new airport security procedures is as follows: Increased passenger and baggage security screenings at all airports. Passengers should plan to arrive at the airport a MINIMUM OF TWO HOURS prior to departure. Passengers must check their luggage at the ticket counter, no curbside check-in allowed. Only passengers holding an electronic ticket receipt, travel agency itinerary, airline ticket card, boarding document, internet printout or paper ticket will be allowed past the security check point. Passengers without receipts of any sort will need to stand in line at the airport ticket counters to obtain a receipt. (You may also contact TI and they will mail, fax or email a receipt to you prior to departing to the airport) Aircraft and airport security sweeps similar to those conducted during the Persian Gulf war. Vehicles will be inspected at terminal parking entrances. Unattended vehicles are banned near the terminals and will be towed. No knives of any size, or made from any material, are permitted on flights. The sale of knifelike items has been banned at all airports. Heightened vigilance for unattended bags. Searches of aircraft cargo and passenger compartments. An increase in number of uniformed law enforcement and military personnel. Random searches of service personal, flight crews and equipment. Reduces access points to secure areas at airports.

Thanks for the info. MArcia. I'm curious to know what the procedures are for our friends in other countries. How do these security measures compare to Europe/Australia/Asia/etc.?

Is this the end of Duty-Free shopping? I must say I am very happy about about the carry-on luggage ban. The size of those things were getting too large.

I think you will still be allowed carry on items, but just the curb side check service is gone.

I thought they said wallets and purses only.

O.k. I just didn't see that in the above post. It's quite possible that they will limit it to that.

Where does it say anything about limiting carry-ons to wallets or purses? Just no curbside check-in per above. Can you imagine turning over your camera to the airlines to check in cargo? I don't think so.

Wonder about laptops carry-ons. I suspect that they will be banned, as well. I guess we carry a well examined purse and a book to read. Who about nail files? knitting needles? Dental floss? The list is endless if one gets tryly inventive. Even a leather belt! El Al, The Israeli airlines makes inspections like you would not believe. They have the tightest security in the world and NO ONE complains.

This also from my son about colleagues travelling and caught in this mess: froma memo: We have heard from the rest of our traveling staff. DK is making his way to Chicago from Midland, Michigan via automobile. He is with SS and R. They hope to get on a morning flight to San Francisco out of Chicago. DM, who was on personal travel, is also in Chicago trying to get on a flight or take a Greyhound bus.

At Last the Aggressors Themselves Are Able to Wedge In a Word Or Two *8-/ Subject: Islamic Jihad, what is next ? Date: Thursday, September 13, 2001 1:53 AM From: felipe rodriquez Reply-To: "felipe rodriquez" To: ISLAMIC JIHAD, what is next ? (c) Felipe Rodriquez INTRODUCTION The attack on the World Trade Center in New York is a new phase in an ongoing global religious and ideological conflict. This conflict started in 1990, with the gulf war. The mother of all wars, as Saddam Hussein called it, and is unlikely to end for some time. To understand this conflict, we must look at the Western world's exploitation and colonization of Saudi Arabia and other Muslim nations . Economic and geopolitical moves that benefit only the western democratic capitalist structures are the primary cause of this terrible conflict. USAMA BIN MUHAMMAD BIN IN LADEN The Taliban consider Osama Bin Ladin to be a holy man, because of his incredible service in the Afghani war against the Russians, and the reconstruction of Afghanistan. Osama Bin Ladin has fought hundreds of battles in Afghanistan, and has been wounded numerous times. He went to Afghanistan around 1982, and took with him a large amount of construction equipment, and a team of engineers, to rebuild the war torn country. Consequently he became involved in many battles, and was wounded many times. He is a devout Muslim, and answers to Allah and certain important Islamic teachers, such as Sheik Safar Ibn `Abd Al-Rahman Al-Hawali. He founded the "Al Qaeda" movement, with Muhammad Atef. The movement was initially setup to record the movements of Mujahedin in Afghanistan. Later the goal changed to driving the United States forces out of Saudi Arabia, where the US setup a military base since the beginning of the Gulf War. Many devout Muslims see this as a hostile invasion of the Islamic holy land, comparable to the invasions of the crusaders in the past. Some years later the goal changed once again, into what it is now; to attack Israel, the US and its allies wherever it can. The justification of these acts, in the mind of the Muslim activist, comes from the foreign occupation of the holy cities; Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem. It is simplistic and short sighted to assume that Osama Bin Laden is the great leader behind the attacks on the WTC, the Nairobi and Dar Es Salaam US embassies, the hit on USS Cole in Yemen and various other terrorist attacks. Islamic religious activism is the glue that binds this global terror movement together. Removing Osama Bin Ladin from the scene will not remove this global movement, and will not end terror. Killing him will only motivate thousands of Muslims to volunteer for the ultimate sacrifice. The Islamic radical movement resembles a hydra, A serpent represented as having many heads, one of which, when cut off, is immediately succeeded by two others. The movement cannot be eradicated by violence and retaliation, such deeds will only make it stronger and increase popular support in the Islamic world. To understand how this works, lets look at Hizbollah and Hamas. These Islamic organizations have been setup in such a way that they are almost impossible to eradicate. There is always double redundancy in the leadership, because any leader can expect to be assassinated by their enemies at any time. The effectiveness of this redundancy is demonstrated by the fact that Hizbollah and Hamas still exist today, despite the fact that many of its leaders have been assassinated by Israel and others. We must assume that the leadership of the organization that hit the WTC, and other targets in the past, is organized in a similar way, building on the experience of Islamic organizations in Lebanon, Palestine and elsewhere. Hamas and Hizbollah have integrated Islamic thought in their society by providing numerous services to their communities. Schools and hospitals are provided for free or at cost. And they materially support families, widows and orphans that have been victims of aggression by their enemies. Hizbollah operates numerous businesses, that together with donations fund the activities of the organization. These social activities provide the organizations with enormous popular support, it is an effective way of disseminating the virtues of Islam, and strengthening its base. It has also created a strong platform to recruit martyrs for the violent Jihad (Holy War) against Israel and its allies. >From documentation that was seized in Africa, after the Nairobi bombing, there is a strong indication that a cell structure was used to limit the risks to the terrorist organization that hit the African embassies, allegedly the same organization that hit the WTC in 2001. A cell structure is often used by violent groups. It is implemented in such a way that cell members only know a limited amount of members of the organization, and only have limited access to information about the planned activities of the group. Typically cell members only know the coordinator of the cell, and the coordinator only knows one higher placed member of the organization. The aim of the cell structure is to protect the organization, in case of arrests and torturous interrogations. The violent faction of the Islamic activist movement, such as the Islamic front for Jihad, is mostly invisible. It has been hardened through years of struggle in Lebanon, Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan. It is acutely aware of its security requirements, because numerous Islamic activists have been assassinated in the past. The WTC attack, and the other attacks in the past demonstrate that they have relatively good communication security; they most likely assume that all electronic communication is monitored by the US and its allies through their global Echelon surveillance system and the FBI's Carnivore software. Human infiltration of these groups is not likely either, most of these Islamic activists have been working together for many years. An infiltrator would have to speak fluent Arabic, would have to have intimate knowledge of the Quran and Islamic religious rituals, and would have to be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, Martyrdom, to earn the trust of the organization. In 1853 adventurer Richard Burton managed to disguise himselfe as a Muslim Derwish, participate in the Pilgrimage to Mecca and Al- Madinah, and came back alive. But he was the exception to the rule, and he did not try to infiltrate a terrorist organization that expects infiltration attempts. INTENTIONS AND MOTIVATIONS "The people of Islam awakened and realized that they are the main target for the aggression of the Zionist-Crusaders alliance. All false claims and propaganda about "Human Rights" were hammered down and exposed by the massacres that took place against the Muslims in every part of the world. The latest and the greatest of these aggressions, incurred by the Muslims since the death of the Prophet (ALLAH'S BLESSING AND SALUTATIONS ON HIM) is the occupation of the land of the two Holy Places" (Source: A DECLARATION OF WAR, by Osama Bin Laden. http://msanews.mynet.net//MSANEWS/199610/19961012.3.html) A growing group of Islamic scholars and activists feel that the military installations of the United States in Saudi Arabia represent a hostile foreign invasion into their holy land. They believe that the three most holy places in the Islamic world, Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem, are occupied by Zionists and Christian crusaders. They also believe that most Muslim nations are victims of neo-colonialist exploitation by the capitalist western world. A holy war, Jihad, was declared in 1996 to struggle against exploitation and occupation. In 1998 a Fatwah was declared by Sheikh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin, Ayman al-Zawahiri, amir of the Jihad Group in Egypt, Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Egyptian Islamic Group, Sheikh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan and Fazlul Rahman, amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh. This Fatwah reconfirms the holy war against Israel, the US and its allies. A quote from this Fatwah: "The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God." (Source: World Islamic Front Statement 23 February 1998, http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm) Safar Ibn `Abd Al-Rahman Al-Hawali, an important Islamic scholar and ideologue and highly regarded by Osama Bin Ladin, recently wrote a book, The Day of Wrath, describing various biblical prophecies. He describes, among other things: "The attributes of the victorious army, the collapse of the Zionist forces and the fate of the strategic ally of the Zionist state (United States)." He states that the beginning of the new era will be with the announcement of Jihad. And goes on to say that: "It is futile for the enemies of Allah to compete with Him in weapons!" and "On the other hand, as if at the signal of a trumpet, the Palestinian refugees return to their homes, and after the great battle is over the Muslims, especially those from Egypt and Iraq, are called to the Holy Land to visit its sanctuary and spend time in worship within its environs." He goes on to speculate that the reconquest of Jerusalem will take place in 2012. True or not, we cannot deny the fact that the organizers of this Jihad believe they are part of this prophecy, and believe that their struggle will ultimately be successful. This has given them great moral strength, perseverance, and willingness to sacrifice. NEXT TARGETS We should be prepared for the possibility that the WTC bombing is only the beginning of a new era of warfare. This group has shown repeatedly what their capabilities are. They have been given no reasons to stop their Jihad; the US still has military bases in Saudi Arabia, Jerusalem is still occupied by the Israeli's, and the western world is still perceived to be implementing its systems of neo-colonialist exploitation on most, if not all, Muslim nations. Much will depend on the actions of the US and NATO. Pinpoint retaliation by them is not possible, because they are fighting an invisible enemy. President Bush has already stated that no difference will be made between those countries that harbor terrorists, and the terrorists themselves. Therefore it is likely that the US and NATO will shed the blood of innocent Muslims, causing increasing popular support for the Jihad. Retaliation by the US and NATO would be a precedent for the organisers of the Jihad to engage in further attacks and further retaliation. Any future targets of violence by this group are likely to be of greater symbolic and material value than the WTC tragedy. Destruction of the Vatican in Rome comes to mind immediately. The radical Islamists consider the Catholic church to be corrupt, and its destruction would cause a complete loss of morale for many people in the Western world. The White House is an obvious target, as is Tel Aviv, the European Parliament in Brussels and other centres of power. Additionally they may target military targets, such as NATO headquarters, the Menwith Hill spy base in the UK, and similar sites around the world. In an interview Osama Bin Ladin expressed that it is his religious duty to obtain weapons of mass destruction. We cannot discard the possibility of a terrorist attack on a city with biological or even nuclear weapons. THE SOLUTION ? A solution is unlikely to come up anytime soon. The allies of the US and Israel will most likely respond with violence, instead of analyzing the causes of this movement. The Western focus seems to be to eradicate these terrorist movements through violence and prosecution, by implementing stronger intelligence systems and implementing additional internal security systems. President Bush has already stated that he will attack any nation that harbors and protects terrorists. Thereby laying the groundwork for acts of war that are likely to be highly inaccurate, causing many civilian casualties. If the history of the Middle East gives any indication, we can speculate that violence will be answered by more violence and aggression. Retaliation is at best the wrong answer, at worst it could be a catastrophic mistake. The start of a solution would be to look at the causes that have created this violent movement. Why are so many Muslims upset with the Western world and Israel ? Why have they been driven into a position where the only answer they perceive possible in their struggle is unprecedented violence and aggression ? Why do they feel cheated, raped and abused by the western worlds military and capitalist system ? Why do they not trust the US and Europe at the negotiating table, and instead see them as targets for terrorist strikes ? We must go back into history, and realize which mistakes have been made by our nations. We must recognize our total lack of respect and appreciation for anything different than the modern western system of democracy and capitalism. Only then will we arrive at some answers that could lead us to an end of this Jihad. This is highly unlikely to happen though and therefore the situation will likely get worse before it gets better. (c) Felipe Rodriquez Sources: Frontline - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/ A declaration of war from Usama Bin Laden - http://msanews.mynet.net//MSANEWS/199610/19961012.3.html World Islamic Front Statement - http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/wif.htm The DAY of WRATH - http://home.swbell.net/jhaidar/0_preface.htm Foreign Terrorist Organizations - http://www.state.gov/www/global/terrorism/fto_1999.html The next presidents terrorism policy - http://www.terrorism.com/analysis/TerrorismPolicy.pdf The Use of Force in Response to Terrorism - http://www.terrorism.com/terrorism/Force.shtml WMD TERRORISM AND USAMA BIN LADEN - http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/reports/binladen.htm Suitcase Nuclear Devices - http://www.prop1.org/2000/suitcase.htm CNN - http://www.cnn.com Hezbollah by Hala Jaber - Columbia Univ Pr; ISBN: 0231108346 A pilgrimage to Al-Madinah and Meccah by R. Burton - AES; ISBN 81-206-0903-4 Gideons Spies by Gordon Thomas - Pan Books; ISBN: 033037537 The Fateful Triangle by Noam Chomski - Pluto press; ISBN: 0745315305 Pity the Nation by Robert Fisk - Oxford University Press; ISBN: 019285284-1 The terrorism reader by David J. Whittaker - Routledge; ISBN: 0-415-22134-X

http://interactive.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Tenant-List.htm is a list of building tenants with status reports on tenants and business.

I really hope these security precaustions are permanant. I hope to God, they aren't eased up on when people start complaining about the inconvenience. According to the FAA, they claim they have been calling for all airport security personel to become federal employees and trained and paid accordingly, for quite some time. Thet were trying to enforce this, but backed off when all the airlines began protesting.

(Marcia) Only passengers holding an electronic ticket receipt, travel agency itinerary, airline ticket card, boarding document, internet printout or paper ticket will be allowed past the security check point winter, you asked about procedures in Europe - the above has always been the case in the UK to my knowledge - certainly any time I've flown, whether within the UK, within Europe, or to North America (USA and Canada) you cannot get into the departure lounge without a boarding pass which is issued at check-in (and passport for international flights); non-passengers are not allowed past that point. Then at the boarding gate you must show your pass again. If a checked-in passenger does not board, but has put luggage on the plane, the plane will not fly until the luggage has come off. Check in times for USA/Canada have been two hours minimum every time I've done the trip; within Europe its usually an hour; I know someone who checked in 30 minutes before a flight to Dublin (thus was technically late) and was not allowed to board because she'd breeched security regulations. what is curb side check in?

There are skycaps at the entrances (curb) who will take your bags and they are put on the plane. You have to produce a valid ticket and photo identification. This is only for domestic flights. Plus you have to tip these guys per bag.

Science@NASA is based in the United States, but among our many subscribers are a substantial number of readers from other countries. In recent days many of them have written to us expressing their sympathies and horror at the events of Sept. 11th. Their messages, attached below, reveal how the heart-breaking loss of life in New York, Washington, D.C., and Pennsylvania touches everyone. The staff of Science@NASA extend our heartfelt condolences to the many victims of Tuesday's tragedy, and we thank our friends overseas for their kind messages of support as we resume, later today, our regular schedule of scientific story-telling. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- TO: Ron.koczor@msfc.nasa.gov FROM: inna_mar@XXXXXXXX.ru Dear Mr. Koczor, All of us are shocked by the awful events that have occurred yesterday in New York and in Washington and we wish to extend our sympathy to you and your colleagues. If there is any way that we can help, please let us know. Sincerely, Inna Mardanyan Moscow, Russia **************************** TO: Ron.koczor@msfc.nasa.gov FROM: gushat@XXXXXXX.ru Dear friends, Your colleagues from Paleontological Institute of Moscow are with you. Our sympathy, thoughts and support are yours. And will always be. Best regards, Alexei Rzanov, Galina Ushatinskaya, and all colleagues from Moscow **************************** TO: Ron.koczor@msfc.nasa.gov FROM: snassopoulou@XXXXXXX.gr Dear Ron, We are very sorry and really left astonished and speechless with terrorism struck US yesterday. We sincerely wish and hope that everything is OK for you and all the American colleagues and families. Yours, Sophia Athens, Greece **************************** TO: phillips@spacescience.com FROM: tony.taggett@XXXXXXX.uk Dear Dr Phillips As my only point of contact with the United States is through your science@NASA website, I would like to express my heartfelt condolences to the American people, our thoughts and prayers especially go out to the relatives and friends of those who perished in the awful events that occurred yesterday Yours Sincerely Tony Aggett United Kingdom ***************************** TO: ron.koczor@msfc.nasa.gov FROM: mmazzolini@XXXXXX.au We would like to offer our deepfelt sympathy, concern and prayers to our friends and colleagues in the US at this dreadful time, Margaret and Alex Mazzolini Melbourne, Australia ***************************** TO: ron.koczor@msfc.nasa.gov FROM: omaro@XXXXXX.kz We are absolutely shocked by horrible events in the U.S. It is unbelievable...Accept my condolences...Today our world has changed. What will happen to our world? Take care, Prof Omarov Alma Aty, Khazakstan ***************************** TO: ron.koczor@msfc.nasa.gov FROM: cofXXXXX@home.com As the President of CANADIAN Environmental Science and Research Group and on behalf of the Team of CESAR Group I would like to send our heart felt sorrow to those family members who lost relatives in these vicious and despicable attacks on democracy. God Bless America! Jack Pender Canada ***************************** From: Rafael C�rdenas Santacruz To: Ronald.J.Koczor@msfc.nasa.gov Sincere greetings Dr. Koczor, Ron Together with my family, we feel very sorry for the regrettable incidents in New York. We are with you with all our hearts. Rafael Cardenas Santacruz Scientific Technician Bogota, Columbia ***************************** TO: Ron.koczor@msfc.nasa.gov FROM: jarl.ahlbeck@XXXXX.fi In the 1930's Stalin deported and murdered 25,000 Finns that were peacefully living on the Soviet side of the border. It was a blind terror action against civilians, a complete ethnical cleaning of the Karelia county. Without successful defensive fight in the following winter war 1939 when Stalin tried to invade Finland (5 of my uncles were killed, my father injured), we would, according to recently discovered documents from Moscow, all have been deported to Siberia, and I would not sit here and study your website. These terrorists try to create a world of that kind. We do not want this world anymore! All the best for you in the USA Jarl Helsinki, Finland **************************** Necochea, 11/9/01 TO: ron.koczor@msfc.nasa.gov NASA: Hi�, My name is Maria. I am aware of the attack that has been perpetrated against your country, and I am very sad. I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. I am 14 years old and there is not much that I can do to help, but I profoundly admire you and you have my moral support. I would like to ask you a favor. Please reach an agreement without wars, but I hope those responsible are found, so that peace will be extended throughout the world. Sincerely, Maguie. ***************************** From: Jonathon Dugdale To: patrick.meyer@msfc.nasa.gov Sent: 9/11/01 12:37 PM Subject: Condolences On behalf of all the employees and stakeholders of ApexMail I would like to say that we share in your shock, grief and pain resulting from today's unspeakable and cowardly assault. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and the people of America. Jonathon Dugdale Apexmail, Inc Canada *****************************

(Marcia) El Al, The Israeli airlines makes inspections like you would not believe. They have the tightest security in the world and NO ONE complains. Right on, Marcia. Below is a fascinating article from today's Philly Inquirer on airport security in Israel. Take a moment to read this, everyone. IMO, *this* is the type of dialogue we should be having, and people need to think now about the balance of personal freedoms and civil liberties vs. much more aggressive security measures. How much of the former are you willing to give up in order to achieve the latter? A little? A lot? I don't have the answers but this is the type of thing I meant before when I wrote that I wondered if people would have the stomach for doing what may be required in the new world order. Military retaliation is only part of it. How Israel remains a model of airport security By Michael Matza INQUIRER STAFF WRITER JERUSALEM - As the United States moves to tighten security at its airports, it may look to the world's model of truly tough airport defense: Israel. Here, any trip on Israel's national airline, El Al, involves not only metal detectors but luggage searches, armed in-flight guards, and a personal grilling by a specially trained antiterrorism officer. Security agents routinely "profile" passengers to single out for extra attention Arabs or foreigners who fit ethnic or other parameters. Any foreign visitor who has taken off from Ben Gurion Airport near Tel Aviv knows the drill: arrive two hours before departure, pass all luggage through a monster of a metal detector; open carry-on bags, which sometimes have to be unpacked on a stainless-steel table; and submit to interrogation by a no-nonsense screener. Where have you been in Israel? Whom did you meet? Did you go to the occupied territories of the West Bank and Gaza? Whom did you talk to there? Did you pack your own bags? Are you carrying any gifts? Did anyone give you anything to carry? Do you speak Hebrew? Can you read Hebrew? Have you ever studied Hebrew? Do you understand that I am asking these questions because what may seem like a gift to you may actually be an explosive device? Passengers of Arabic extraction say the questioning can last a very long time and often feels like harassment. Israelis tend to think of it as a necessary evil. In the United States, "profiling" would not pass constitutional muster. "I think that 99 percent of the passengers understand very well the need for security arrangements, and there are not many complaints," said Pini Schiff, spokesman for the Israeli Airport Authority and former head of airport security. "I can tell you, in general terms, that in two or three minutes of questioning, the screeners are doing their best to learn the passenger's aim for coming to Israel," Schiff said. "All the flight checkers are hired by us and trained by us. They go through extensive background checks. All of them have served in the Israeli army and have to pass several tests to make sure that they have the capabilities to do the job." When a passenger's answers don't add up, he is denied a boarding pass. Schiff declined to say how often that happens. By questioning passengers, guards quickly can spot those who appear nervous, said Leo Gleser, a former El Al security officer and head of ISDS, a security-consulting firm. In the case of Tuesday's hijackers in the United States, "not all of them would have made it onto the plane" if the Israeli approach to security had been used, Gleser told the Associated Press. "If you detect one, you can start to ask questions" that might lead to the other members of the group. As another security measure, Ben Gurion passengers are taken by waiting buses to the planes, which are parked far from the terminal on guarded runways. And, although official sources in Israel would not confirm it, it is widely believed that armed, undercover security guards ride aboard every El Al flight. "We've provided information in the past to other airlines and other airport authorities, and we will continue to share our expertise," said Nachman Kleiman, spokesman for El Al. Kleiman declined yesterday to say whether El Al had consulted with the Federal Aviation Administration on the new U.S. measures. "I can tell you that El Al maintains a high level of security for its passengers by not discussing its procedures in the media," he said. Israeli Transportation Minister Efraim Sneh predicted that Tuesday's attacks would lead to security changes. But instead of bringing more high-tech responses, he said, they likely would reinforce the low-tech methods. "Our screening method is based on identifying the suspect traveler and concentrating on the characteristics of the person," Sneh said. "Screening for explosives only works when the terrorists are using explosives." As the world now knows, for Tuesday's terrorists, the plane was the bomb.

Hi everyone! I just like to say that I used work on Wall Street and now am working in midtown. Unfortunately I still have many clients from the downtown location especially in the twin towers. The downtown area is my playground. I know every building and every street. I can name most of the businesses with their building address. I've been watching the news and they're flashing the names of all the businesses in the twin towers and it is devastating to see all the names that I know and was conducting business with. I'm in the buildings couple of times a week for meetings and I was very lucky for not being in the area the day it all happened. My heart and sympathy goes out to all my clients and their families. I can't even begin to say how I feel and have been feeling the past couple of days. I like to also thank all of you for all your wonderful support.

Sorry to spend so much time on the airport security issue... I've heard conflicting reports about what can now be accepted as "carry on" baggage. Some have said that purses and wallets only (what to do with backpacks?), others have said that there are no changes except that curbside check in is now banned. Am leaving for Indonesia next month (will live there for a year), packing a laptop, videocam and 35mm camera, books, files, clothes, etc.. Oh dear.

Thanks for that, Mari! When I board a plane I want to get to my destination in one piece with my nervous system intact. I have nothing to hide. Search us all and put the fear of a real God in them!

The web grows larger and larger. Germany and Italy to name two.

re: Carry-ons, they suggest we had better be prepared to turn on our laptops if we carry them on. Take photos with our digitals and so on. If you are using a standard camera, I'd suggest an empty one so they can open it and see it is just a camera. I am flying to my son's wedding next month. I am just as concerned as you are. I am heading over a very deep ocean and heading for San Francisco. I want to get there intact. I only have one child! I want to attend his wedding!

G O D B L E S S A M E R I C A ! ! !

(of course the flag didn't show up--hang on)

let's try again---

as an american, it is heart-warming and pride-inducing to hear and feel the goodwill coming across this computer, the tv, and looking out the window. please keep it up. we have friends in the pentagon and know how close to home this has come for us. GOD BLESS YOU ALL! and please, please remember, that anger will not fix this tragedy, will not bring anyone back. feel it but don't act on it. the majority of foreigners who have come here have come for the same reason our pilgrims did so long ago. i am angry, appalled, and very saddened by these events. pray for the leaders of all the countries of the world. please display your flag, put your lights on when you're driving around running errands and take the time to thank your servicemen and women of all walks...this is what they train for.

did you see London playing our National Anthem? i had goosebumps! thank you, that was very moving!! ABC needs to play it again!!

Re: Israeli airline security I know many people who have gone through it for years. You live with it. In the United States, "profiling" would not pass constitutional muster. It's done right now at the airports at customs on your return.... Has a smuggler sued on that basis???

i think that security at airports will make honest people feel safe but bad guys do think, how would airports prevent the bad guys from hiring in? and who's to say that that hasn't happened already. after all this destruction, the news just reported that several people are in custody from JFK and the G airport (i can't spell it at all). i don't know. we all know how bits of info turn into other things and then we have to go back and amend what was reported.

its LaGuardia. They arrested 5 people at JFK and 4 at LGA. all were of middle east extraction, sporting phony pilots licenses, demanding to get on those flights. They were arrested. Apparently, a group of 3 men tried to get on a flight on Tuesday at JFK, the pilot was suspicious, called port authority police and then the 3 men vanished...

Suspicious stuff was detected at check-in and the guys vanished. No pilots were involved. However, I just heard that a pilot and some flight attendants just tested our new airport security with a pocket knife, a corkscrew and false identification and walked right through and then turned around and told the security personnel. :-(

Oh Karen!!! I am happy I have a month before my flight.

Two groups got arrested/detained today trying to board airplanes with fake id's and knives. Peter Jennings was just talking to Senator Joseph Biden, pressing hard to get him to comment on whether or not we're still under attack. He said these guys were the second string and the crisis was over, but he looked visiably shaken and wasn't very convincing. An astrounding comment he made was that he was afraid where Jennings was going to go next and both of them looked shaken. Cheney was moved to Camp David today. Washington was evacuated. > >Whoever's running around with the suitcase nuke or the biological weapon has to be found and stopped before a far worse scenario unfolds.

The collapse of the WTC towers was detected as a M2.5 on the Richter.

Not a surprise since each of those floor slabs weighed 300 tons.

Perhaps it is time to relearn the 4th verse of the National Anthem of the United States. I much prefer it to what we sing now! Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand Between their loved homes and the war's desolation! Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation. Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just, And this be our motto: "In God is our trust." And the star-spangled banner forever shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/jfk.airport.detained/index.html about today's two hijack attempts.

I know many people who have gone through it for years. You live with it. My point exactly. It's done right now at the airports at customs on your return.... Has a smuggler sued on that basis??? Karen, you know they're talking about profiling on the basis of ethnicity--not picking on middle-class ladies who come off the flight from Milan carrying too many Ferragamo bags.;-). Re: the Jennings/Biden interview. I saw that too, Terry. Was that the most bizarre interview you've ever seen, or what? Now, it's emerging that these guys were all trying to board flights to the west coast (i.e., planes loaded with fuel); armed with knives; and carrying pilot training certs from the same school in Fla. that the Tuesday bombers had attended. Same M-0! Yet, earlier today, the FAA says it's safe to fly and opens the airports. Now, oops--not NY! The FAA is totally incompetent, IMO, and should be removed immediately from having jurisdiction over whether the planes can be permitted to fly. However, I just heard that a pilot and some flight attendants just tested our new airport security with a pocket knife, a corkscrew and false identification and walked right through and then turned around and told the security personnel. :-( See my FAA comment above. It's like Groundhog Day. We keep doing the same thing over and over again, sending out the same poorly-trained minimum wage personnel to do a job that other countries employ highly trained people to do. When I saw the new FAA "security procedures," I'd have laughed if it weren't so pathetic. No plastic knives, huh? Well, that's ok, since they never cut through the crummy food they give you anyway.;-) Seriously, this is *so* primitive! Unbelievable--as I'm typing this, Ted Koppel is interviewing a passenger from the JFK flight. He said they were ready to take off, then about 20 SWAT team members rushed aboard shouting at everyone to hit the floor, and they pulled 3 people off the flight, one of whom was violently resisting arrest. But hey, let's open those airports. :-( I'm at a loss.

NASA released aerial shots today, of lower Manhatttan taken from outer space. The pre-collapse smoke eminating from the twin towers, is clearly visible. So is the big gaping gap where the twin towers used to be, once they collpased. It was surreal seeing the pictures.

you know they're talking about profiling on the basis of ethnicity--not picking on middle-class ladies who come off the flight from Milan carrying too many Ferragamo bags.;-). LOL! Am reminded of my astonishment that my own parents were not strip-searched many many years ago on their return from Hong Kong. They must be the only people on the face of the earth who bought nothing. Who would've believed that? ;-) But seriously, ethnic and other profiling is routine at security/customs checkpoints now. Take drugs for example...or the chubby white guy with Rolexes up and down his arm. Have just heard back from my cousin, an air traffic controller in Miami. He too says there's no likelihood that any plane would've been a threat to Air Force One. What shocked him is the return to DC. Even after the 4th plane crashed in PA, there were still thousands of planes still in the air. That's why he couldn't go back to DC.

Hi all I may have upset one or two people when I said "Why do many Americans want war?" for which I apologise but these people did not care who got hit and some people thought the Libyans should be bombed even though Muhammad Gadaffi (right person??)condemned the attacks. If Libya did have a role then they deserve to get hit but I am only seeing stuff about the Osama bin Laden monster who resides in Afghanistan and whom should be extradited and tried anyway, OR if he is the mastermind, bombed into the ground. Bombs away if they are implicated, and GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOD BLESS FREEDOM AND GOD BLESS HUMANITY!!!!!!!!! Rob

Could you unlock your Cap Lock key? Thanks.

My sister sent this to me, I think it's in wide circulation on the net. Subject: From: "Nadia Zierke" TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing. America: The Good Neighbor. Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his Trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those." Stand proud, America! Wear it proudly!! This is one of the best editorials that I have ever read regarding the United States. It is nice that one man realizes it. I only wish that the This is one of the best editorials that I have ever read regarding the United States. It is nice that one man realizes it. I only wish that the rest of the world would realize it. We are always blamed for everything, and never even get a thank you for the things we do. I would hope that each of you would send this to as many people as you can and emphasize that they should send it to as many of their friends until this letter is sent to every person on the web. I am just a single American that has read this, I SURE HOPE THAT A LOT MORE READ IT SOON.

"Tribute to the United States" This was written by Gordon Sinclair in 1973 regarding the Vietnam war. Gordon Sinclair died in 1984, but his sentiments resonate powerfully today. Canadians mourn with the Americans and are prepared to help any way they can. Anywhere between 50-500 Canadians are expected to be among the casualties of this horrific act. We are going to have a nationwide memorial service and moment of silence today. This attack was against all of us no matter where we live or come from.

"you know they're talking about profiling on the basis of ethnicity.." I can just see the suits now on the basis of racial discrimination . We are a litigious society. This would never be tolerated. For years I was searched at Heathrow; someone on the Most Wanted List must have looked like me. I never minded. But this would never be done in the US.

Yes, that email is making its rounds.

Two of the world's most impressive structures have been taken down and over 10% of New Yorks office space has been eliminated. You get a sinking feeling when you read Bin Laden's biography and read that he has a degree in 1979 from King Abdul Aziz University in ... Civil Engineering. He has been running a construction company for over a quarter of a century. Meanwhile . . . WASHINGTON (Reuters) - About 20 police officers, many in SWAT gear, stormed an American Airlines jetliner at New York's Kennedy Airport on Thursday, subduing one man and handcuffing two others, possibly thwarting a hijacking attempt, a passenger aboard the plane told ABC News. http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010914/ts/attack_tradecenter_report_dc_1.html More (from CNN): 10 people arrested, getting on two planes -- one in JFK, one in LaGuardia. Some were trained in piloting at the same school as the hijackers on Tuesday. Some got caught at checkpoints, some made it onto planes. "WASHINGTON, NEW YORK (Reuters)" ... "The Defense Department asked Bush to authorize the activation of tens of thousands of military reserve troops for ''homeland defense'', defense officials said." "Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld planned to activate between 30,000 and 50,000 reservists to provide ``strike-alert'' jet fighter protection and perform other duties at domestic military bases." ... "Afghanistan's ruling Taliban movement, which shelters bin Laden, warned of revenge ``by other means' if the United States attacked their country in retaliation for Tuesday's attacks." ... "An ABC News/Washington Post poll released on Friday showed that nearly nine in 10 Americans approved of Bush's job performance -- a huge leap in the aftermath of Tuesday's terror attacks." "Nearly seven out of 10 Americans supported military action against the groups or countries responsible for the attacks, even if that meant a long war with heavy U.S. casualties, the poll found." http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010914/ts/attack_dc_40.html

http://islamicsupremecouncil.org/Condemnation/support/bin_ladens_nukes.htm BIN LADEN'S NUCLEAR WEAPONS � ex-Soviet Warheads Become Fuel for Portable Terrorist Nuclear Bombs �Arab-funded terrorists smuggle nuclear warheads, purchased from the Russian mafia with opium and cash out of Russian territory, reaching Khost overland via secret routes through Uzbekistan. There, former Soviet scientists remove the active uranium to be processed and placed in backpack-sized nuclear bombs�ready for transportation to the West undetected�to explode in a blast of nuclear terror. Al-Watan al-Arabi, an Arabic language newsmagazine, reports that worldwide terrorist mastermind Usama bin Laden has used two tons of opium and $30 million to purchase over twenty nuclear warheads. Bin Laden has hired an international team of rogue nuclear scientists working in a secret underground base to convert warheads stolen from former Soviet republics into miniature portable nuclear devices capable of striking targets around the globe. The newsmagazine further states that bin Laden developed ties with the mafias of former Soviet republics during the Afghan War which provided him the key to obtaining nuclear missile warheads from the disintegrating USSR. The Arab Afghans, as bin Laden�s fighters are often called, have established extensive bases and networks in many of the Central Asian and Caucasian republics where, due to the weakness of the central government and the minimal security, they are able to thrive unhindered. These terrorist groups operate under the cloak of extremist Islam claiming to oppose the local governments on religious grounds. However, in addition to their calls for the overthrow of �corrupt Islamic governments� these groups serve as a channel for bin Laden to trade Afghani opium to the Russian mafia in exchange for stolen nuclear warheads. Al-Watan�s sources reveal that bin Laden recently sent a delegation representing himself and the Afghani mafia to meet with the mafias of the former Soviet republics. These mafia groups share a common extremist ideology and have disguised their criminal activities under the name of Islam. These mafias have terrorized the governments of the newly-formed Central Asian republics intending to destroy them and replace them with those following their fierce, extremist ideology. This meeting of mafias was a prelude to bringing bin Laden out of Afghanistan and into power in one of these Central Asian

http://www.smh.com.au/news/0104/30/world/world8.html http://www.msnbc.com/news/295108.asp

I may have posted this before, but it's significant, this is what makes these attacks possible. Osama Bin Laden is using web encryption - from an article published months ago in USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2001-02-05-binladen.htm I hate to use the term, but Bin Laden and the terrorists are a global, virtual community, they don't have to be in one physical place to survive, they can disperse to the far corners of the earth and still maintain contact using 128 bit encryption. That's the scariest part of all this this, they are invisible to all our current monitoring technology. They are extremely difficult to pinpoint and attack. This is what scares me the most about all this.

WASHINGTON � Hidden in the X-rated pictures on several pornographic Web sites and the posted comments on sports chat rooms may lie the encrypted blueprints of the next terrorist attack against the United States or its allies. It sounds farfetched, but U.S. officials and experts say it's the latest method of communication being used by Osama bin Laden and his associates to outfox law enforcement. Bin Laden, indicted in the bombing in 1998 of two U.S. embassies in East Africa, and others are hiding maps and photographs of terrorist targets and posting instructions for terrorist activities on sports chat rooms, pornographic bulletin boards and other Web sites, U.S. and foreign officials say. from the above url

"Uncrackable encryption is allowing terrorists � Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaida and others � to communicate about their criminal intentions without fear of outside intrusion," FBI Director Louis Freeh said last March during closed-door testimony on terrorism before a Senate panel. "They're thwarting the efforts of law enforcement to detect, prevent and investigate illegal activities." A terrorist's tool Once the exclusive domain of the National Security Agency, the super-secret U.S. agency responsible for developing and cracking electronic codes, encryption has become the everyday tool of Muslim extremists in Afghanistan, Albania, Britain, Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines, Syria, the USA, the West Bank and Gaza and Yemen, U.S. officials say. It's become so fundamental to the operations of these groups that bin Laden and other Muslim extremists are teaching it at their camps in Afghanistan and Sudan, they add. "There is a tendency out there to envision a stereotypical Muslim fighter standing with an AK-47 in barren Afghanistan," says Ben Venzke, director of special intelligence projects for iDEFENSE, a cyberintelligence and risk management company based in Fairfax, Va. "But Hamas, Hezbollah and bin Laden's groups have very sophisticated, well-educated people. Their technical equipment is good, and they have the bright, young minds to operate them," he said. U.S. officials say bin Laden's organization, al-Qaida, uses money from Muslim sympathizers to purchase computers from stores or by mail. Bin Laden's followers download easy-to-use encryption programs from the Web, officials say, and have used the programs to help plan or carry out three of their most recent plots: Wadih El Hage, one of the suspects in the 1998 bombing of two U.S. embassies in East Africa, sent encrypted e-mails under various names, including "Norman" and "Abdus Sabbur," to "associates in al Qaida," according to the Oct. 25, 1998, U.S. indictment against him. Hage went on trial Monday in federal court in New York. Khalil Deek, an alleged terrorist arrested in Pakistan in 1999, used encrypted computer files to plot bombings in Jordan at the turn of the millennium, U.S. officials say. Authorities found Deek's computer at his Peshawar, Pakistan, home and flew it to the National Security Agency in Fort Meade, Md. Mathematicians, using supercomputers, decoded the files, enabling the FBI to foil the plot. Ramzi Yousef, the convicted mastermind of the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, used encrypted files to hide details of a plot to destroy 11 U.S. airliners. Philippines officials found the computer in Yousef's Manila apartment in 1995. U.S. officials broke the encryption and foiled the plot. Two of the files, FBI officials say, took more than a year to decrypt. "All the Islamists and terrorist groups are now using the Internet to spread their messages," says Reuven Paz, academic director of the Institute for Counter-Terrorism, an independent Israeli think tank. Messages in dots U.S. officials and militant Muslim groups say terrorists began using encryption � which scrambles data and then hides the data in existing images � about five years ago. But the groups recently increased its use after U.S. law enforcement authorities revealed they were tapping bin Laden's satellite telephone calls from his base in Afghanistan and tracking his activities. "It's brilliant," says Ahmed Jabril, spokesman for the militant group Hezbollah in London. "Now it's possible to send a verse from the Koran, an appeal for charity and even a call for jihad and know it will not be seen by anyone hostile to our faith, like the Americans." Extremist groups are not only using encryption to disguise their e-mails but their voices, too, Attorney General Janet Reno told a presidential panel on terrorism last year, headed by former CIA director John Deutsch. Encryption programs also can scramble telephone conversations when the phones are plugged into a computer. "In the future, we may tap a conversation in which the terrorist discusses the location of a bomb soon to go off, but we will be unable to prevent the terrorist act when we cannot understand the conversation," Reno said. Here's how it works: Each image, whether a picture or a map, is created by a series of dots. Inside the dots are a string of letters and numbers that computers read to create the image. A coded message or another image can be hidden in those letters and numbers. They're hidden using free encryption Internet programs set up by privacy advocacy groups. The programs scramble the messages or pictures into existing images. The images can only be unlocked using a "private key," or code, selected by the recipient, experts add. Otherwise, they're impossible to see or read. "You very well could have a photograph and image with the time and information of an attack sitting on your computer, and you would never know it," Venzke says. "It will look no different than a photograph exchanged between two friends or family members." U.S. officials concede it's difficult to intercept, let alone find, encrypted messages and images on the Internet's estimated 28 billion images and 2 billion Web sites. Even if they find it, the encrypted message or image is impossible to read without cracking the encryption's code. A senior Defense Department mathematician says cracking a code often requires lots of time and the use of a government supercomputer. It's no wonder the FBI wants all encryption programs to file what amounts to a "master key" with a federal authority that would allow them, with a judge's permission, to decrypt a code in a case of national security. But civil liberties groups, which offer encryption programs on the Web to further privacy, have vowed to fight it. Officials say the Internet has become the modern version of the "dead drop," a slang term describing the location where Cold War-era spies left maps, pictures and other information. But unlike the "dead drop," the Internet, U.S. officials say, is proving to be a much more secure way to conduct clandestine warfare. "Who ever thought that sending encrypted streams of data across the Internet could produce a map on the other end saying 'this is where your target is' or 'here's how to kill them'?" says Paul Beaver, spokesman for Jane's Defense Weekly in London, which reports on defense and cyberterrorism issues. "And who ever thought it could be done with near perfect security? The Internet has proven to be a boon for terrorists."

"I can tell you that El Al maintains a high level of security for its passengers by not discussing its procedures in the media," he said. HEAR, HEAR! Am I alone in believing that far too much information is given to terrorists, criminals, enemies in the name of "freedom of speech"?

And as a follow up to the above, from zdnet news The hunt for suspects in Tuesday's terrorist attacks has moved online. America Online has handed the FBI e-mail records for accounts belonging to the suspected hijackers, according to a report on CNN's Web site Thursday. AOL spokesman Andrew Weinstein declined to comment on any matters involving the investigation. AOL Time Warner's online division stores logs of when instant messaging users are on the network; it also can access e-mail correspondence under certain situations. "We are cooperating with (the FBI) in this ongoing investigation," Nicholas Graham, spokesman for Dulles, Va.-based AOL, said Wednesday. Although Graham wouldn't provide details, he denied reports that the company had agreed to install a Carnivore surveillance system. The FBI developed Carnivore, now renamed DCS1000, to allow it to wiretap communications that go through Internet service providers. "We are able to provide them with information on an immediate basis," he said, stressing that such an ability made Carnivore unnecessary. On Wednesday, EarthLink also acknowledged that it is working with the FBI to turn over specific information that may be relevant to the case. EarthLink's vice president of communications, Dan Greenfield, confirmed that the Atlanta-based ISP was served with a warrant under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to turn over information. FISA limits the ability of intelligence and law enforcement agencies--essentially the FBI, the CIA and the military information-gathering National Security Agency--from spying on the American public. The warrant covers investigations relating to the leakage of information to a foreign government and requires less burden of proof than a warrant in a criminal case. The directors of the FBI and the CIA as well as the secretaries of state and defense are the only government officials allowed to request a FISA warrant. Calling the warrant "equivalent to a wiretap," Greenfield also denied that the company had let the FBI install a Carnivore system. "We are not installing any equipment," he said. "We are cooperating with a very specific request. There are concerns from our customers that we are giving arbitrary access to our network, and we are not." Most of the clues that have turned up so far in the hunt for suspects have been dug up through typical investigative footwork, not high-tech sleuthing. Authorities are searching for the accomplices of a well-organized group of suicide hijackers who commandeered four commercial jets Tuesday, effectively turning them into flying bombs. Two flattened the World Trade Center, while a third seriously damaged the Pentagon. The fourth plane crashed in a field. Some of the victims on hijacked aircraft used cell phones to describe the attacks to people on the ground. In addition, a review of the passenger lists has offered some leads. So far, five Arab men have been identified by Massachusetts authorities as suspects, according to two Boston newspapers. Authorities have also seized a rental car containing Arabic-language flight-training manuals at the city's Logan International Airport, where two of the hijacked planes originated, the papers reported. U.S. agents served warrants on homes and searched businesses in south Florida; they also issued alerts for two cars in connection with the attacks, local media reported. Jack Mattera, director of computer forensics for The Intelligence Group, which specializes in corporate investigations and crisis management, stressed that information technology will likely play a crucial role in finding out who planned the suicide attacks. "Using high-tech to investigate is critical," he said. "There are some things that gumshoe work is just not going to find." Security experts described Tuesday's attack as low-tech, with reports of knives being used as the primary weapons in the hijackings. Nevertheless, many suspect computers and the Internet may have played a critical role in planning the complex and highly coordinated operation. In February, George Tenet, the director of the CIA, warned members of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence that terrorists were using the Internet and high-tech tools to communicate. "International terrorist networks have used the explosion in information technology to advance their capabilities," he told the committee. Mark Mansfield, spokesman for the CIA, declined to explain what tools the agency was bringing to bear, saying "it would be ill-advised for us to talk about (our methods). It would not be a prudent thing to do." Both the NSA and the FBI declined comment as well. However, The Intelligence Group's Mattera said he believed that the requests for online information may be to check out the people who posted suspicious information in public chat rooms or online. "I think there is some indication that there may have been some information posted to different groups that didn't specifically alert people at the time, but now they may be able to go back and connect it to the suspects," he said. "Two days ago, a (virulent) e-mail may not have meant anything," he said, "but today they will run it down and see if it's a clue."

Gerard is still talking to us from on the ground in NYC. Gerard Van der Leun (boswell) Fri Sep 14 '01 (08:37) 45 lines Early this morning, looking out the window at the street, I suddenly started to see in my mind a whole chain of images from the last week. This was the first day when I had nothing in front of me that I had to do, and I just started to run the images... the rumble in my building, the confused chatter on the radio, the television images of the second plane coming in... the street outside my house with dozens all running toward the promenade to see the horro across the river.. the twin towers tall in the crisp and bright morning with the flames and smoke streaming up like obscene claws coming out of the building. and the sound and the sight of the first tower just going down and going down and the blast of dust up and spewing out of the canyons of wall street and the screams and wails around me as what we saw was so far beyond our ability to comprehend the enormity of it that we could have been just ants gazing at the sole of a descending boot... and the sick wet rumble that came across the water like a screaming beast having its innards torn out and the smoke, the immense plume of smoke that darkened the sun and went on and still goes on... and the rest of the day a dim numb blur i had i think something to eat and i went to get coffee in the bright sunlight with a friend and i called my daughter and found she was safe and far uptown, except of course she was not safe, as none of our children will ever be safe again until that thing that caused this is crushed and killed and ground to dust and sent down into the pit of oblivion forever.

Gerard Van der Leun (boswell) Fri Sep 14 '01 (08:43) 28 lines and going back to my place and watching the endless repeats and the endless parade of the doomed and the wounded and the hordes of people in the distance jamming the bridge, the brooklyn bridge on which two large american flags fly, these people all going one direction, one direction only... out and away from the stench and the terror and the death... and somewhere in there the second tower came down down on thousands trying to escape and down on hundreds of what have to be the bravest and most noble souls in the world, the fireman, the fireman who were going up the stairs... up the stairs... UP THE STAIRS... we cannot know what sort of human spirit that takes we can never know... i have no humanity and no manhood and no courage when compared to these men, none of us do none of us... do you all understand that they went into this building and up the stairs?

I am ready and willing to give up my civil liberties if it means that we can remain safe here in the US and the rest of the world. People need to realize that right now, and not complain about it, as they inevitably will.

Gerard Van der Leun (boswell) Fri Sep 14 '01 (08:56) 50 lines and the day went on and went on... inside to television.. outside into the reality... and the smell of it got stronger and the white ash of concrete ash of steel ash of paper ash of human beings drifted over me and everythingand everyone around me and settled white and obscene on everything and the smoke went on and the streets were filled with people whose faces were filled with fear and with grief and with anger and nobody spoke except to whisper to those next to them that they knew or perhaps did not know but knew now in this terrible day at some point i began to take pictures of the skyline which was not there any more, of the lives that weren't there any more... of little things... but it wasn't any use... it was pointless... feeling grief was pointless... only rage seemed to have a point, rage and hate, and it seemed important, very very important to retain that rage and hate as a wall against the pain and the despair... i walked out again and again to look across the river and to smell the smoke and to see the dust because i knew that nothing would ever be the same again, i knew that something had killed my world and the world of those i loved... of the world of all of us...and that no matter what we did that world would never be returned to us... that we could and we must honor and remember it.. that we must take terrible and complete vengence on those whose evil took it from us no matter what the cost... but that world, that indian summer world, would not be returned anymore than the lives of those who went up the stairs in the burning and collapsing tower would be returned. this morning for the first time i have been weeping, weeping not in tears but in a kind of dry low screaming agony that sweeps up in my chest. it comes and shakes me and then it goes away. i'm going to go out into this world now to tend to the little needs of my little day in my little world. i can't bear to remember anymore of this week for now even though I remember it all.

Over 100,000 people participated at the memorial service in Ottawa, with speeches by Jean Chretien, US ambassador Paul Celluci and Governor General Adrienne Clarkson. Chretien expressed the resolve of Canada to fully supprt U.S at this difficult time.

Tony Blair's speech to the special session of Parliament was carried on FOX. He also expressed the support and allegiance to the US in tracking down the terrorists by every means available. Eloquent and sincere. Much appreciated.

Am I alone in believing that far too much information is given to terrorists, criminals, enemies in the name of "freedom of speech"? You are walking a very thin line here. But I agree with you. The thought of them having the possibility to make "backpack nuclear bombs" is a scary one. God bless us all!

President Bush gave a very inspiring speech at the National Cathedral as did Billy Graham. I was reduced to tears. My friend Jean is still awaiting word of her sister who was at the WTC for a conference.

we had a three minute silence and a candle-lit vigil at work today, at 11am, led by our chaplain. It was very moving and I'm glad I was there, although it feels such a small thing to do in the face of such enormity. Tony Blair said we (in the UK) stand shoulder to shoulder with the USA; NATO said an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us; we know now that this is true, that along with thousands of Americans were hundreds of British citizens, Irish, Canadians, Australians, and more, and this event will touch many of us, world wide. My father, my uncle, and my grandfather were all firefighters. The loss of some of New York's finest is keenly felt in this home, many miles away. I'm lucky, my friend escaped, my cousin's colleagues and friends are safe. My heart goes out to those not so lucky, and I just hope the prayers we said and the thoughts we had, at 11am this morning in the UK, go some way to comfort those shouldering terrible burdens. I think I read somewhere that at 7pm tonight, US time, candles will be lit. 7pm in NYC is midnight here; I'll be lighting a candle then. Shoulder to shoulder; an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us. God bless you

(Mari) When I saw the new FAA "security procedures," I'd have laughed if it weren't so pathetic. No plastic knives, huh? Well, that's ok, since they never cut through the crummy food they give you anyway.;-) Seriously, this is *so* primitive! B'ness as usual: 1. Panic. 2. Create specific reactive measures instead of broad proactive measures (golly gee, all 18+ hijackers answered the 'did you pack you own suitcase' question truthfully and they probably skipped curbside check-in). 3. Panic some more. Aargh! I was also LOL about the knives. Whatever will they do in first class, where the cutable food is served? Wait until someone chokes and sues. Or maybe they'll just ban airline food all together, or restrict it to the likes of those Otis Spunkmeyer cookies served by SouthWest. ;-) Winter, by the time you leave for Indo the carry-on requirements might be better defined. You could also look into shipping some of those items ahead.

posted to a listserve Dear Friends, The following was sent to me by my friend Tamim Ansary. Tamim is an Afghani-American writer. He is also one of the most brilliant people I know in this life. When he writes, I read. When he talks, I listen. Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in. -Gary T. Dear Gary and whoever else is on this email thread: I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else? Tamim Ansary

Rachael - My father, too, was one of the head Fire Chiefs in Toronto. Two of my uncles are currently Captains (it seems to run in families, doesn't it?) I am totally devastated by the deaths of those brave men. My Dad is crushed, and he just had a cornea transplant which makes his pain even worse. My Dad had meet those chiefs who died in NYC on a couple of occassions at international events. If it had been here, in Toronto, I probably would have lost a few members of my family. I am trying to help my Dad's department organize something here cause like many, I really want to help. At the moment I have had to turn the TV off as they are putting faces on the dead, and it is breaking my heart. Here in Canada 100,000 people showed up at Parliament Hill in Ottawa for a memorial ceremony - that is a huge number. I am so proud of Canadians, so proud for the world for sharing in this grief.

Had the TV on all morning, sobbing. Each story is more heartbreaking than the next.

Washington Post New York Airport Suspects Cleared By Donna De La Cruz Associated Press Writer Friday, Sept. 14, 2001; 11:12 a.m. EDT NEW YORK �� About a dozen travelers of Middle Eastern descent who were detained at two New York airports have been cleared of any connection with this week's terrorist attacks, federal authorities said Friday. One person, however, remained in custody, said Barry Mawn, head of the FBI's New York office. That person had not immediately been charged and may be released, Mawn said. The incidents Thursday caused the region's three major airports � Kennedy, LaGuardia and Newark, N.J. � to close again just hours after service had been restored because of the attacks. Authorities had been investigating whether the two groups � detained at Kennedy and LaGuardia � were more would-be hijackers or people related to the attack trying to flee the New York area. Sen. Joseph Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN the arrests were based on suspicions that the men were linked to Tuesday's attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. One man was arrested because he was belligerent, while the others were merely detained and questioned, according to the senator's chief of staff, Alan Hoffman. Biden said there were explanations for the suspicions. One man was originally thought to be traveling with a fake pilot's license. Biden said the man was a pilot who also had his brother's identification. "His brother happened to live in an apartment complex that was one in Boston where some of these people had actually been," said Biden, D-Del. Others were traveling to a Boeing Co. conference, either because they work for the airline manufacturer or were invited, Biden added. "The folks at the airport thought, 'Hey, wait a minute, are they impersonating crew?' And they weren't." Mawn said he could not verify reports that the individuals had been taken forcibly off a plane. ---------------------------- I saw an interview on Good Morning American. A passenger said the pilot - after talking with those on board - told them to buckle up because they would soon be taking off. About 20 minutes later, men with guns drawn, in full riot gear, came in the rear and took the suspects away.

This is incredible stuff - world wide empathy and support feels very good, indeed. Lest anyone mistake Rob's comments in Caps, I want to assure you that he is a very special friend; conservative, itelligent and thoughtful. He is not given to overstatement nor emotionalism. Emphasis is what those Caps were for, and, Rob, many warm thanks for your doing so.

Tamim Ansary. Tamim is an Afghani-American writer. Wonder what this guy is doing to help his country except write emails?

Washington Post New York Airport Suspects Cleared By Donna De La Cruz Associated Press Writer Friday, Sept. 14, 2001; 11:12 a.m. EDT NEW YORK �� About a dozen travelers of Middle Eastern descent who were detained at two New York airports have been cleared of any connection with this week's terrorist attacks, federal authorities said Friday. One person, however, remained in custody, said Barry Mawn, head of the FBI's New York office. That person had not immediately been charged and may be released, Mawn said. The incidents Thursday caused the region's three major airports � Kennedy, LaGuardia and Newark, N.J. � to close again just hours after service had been restored because of the attacks. Authorities had been investigating whether the two groups � detained at Kennedy and LaGuardia � were more would-be hijackers or people related to the attack trying to flee the New York area. Sen. Joseph Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN the arrests were based on suspicions that the men were linked to Tuesday's attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. One man was arrested because he was belligerent, while the others were merely detained and questioned, according to the senator's chief of staff, Alan Hoffman. Biden said there were explanations for the suspicions. One man was originally thought to be traveling with a fake pilot's license. Biden said the man was a pilot who also had his brother's identification. "His brother happened to live in an apartment complex that was one in Boston where some of these people had actually been," said Biden, D-Del. Others were traveling to a Boeing Co. conference, either because they work for the airline manufacturer or were invited, Biden added. "The folks at the airport thought, 'Hey, wait a minute, are they impersonating crew?' And they weren't." Mawn said he could not verify reports that the individuals had been taken forcibly off a plane. ---------------------------- I saw an interview on Good Morning American. A passenger said the pilot - after talking with those on board - told them to buckle up because they would soon be taking off. About 20 minutes later, men with guns drawn, in full riot gear, came in the rear and took the suspects away.

Womack Diary, Day 3 *8-/ Subject: Day 3, and this morning Date: Friday, September 14, 2001 9:10 AM From: Womack, Jack Our secretary Heather (who just moved here from Alaska, two weeks ago) and myself are the only people on our floor so far this morning. Yesterday we were essentially told the building would be open, but after that it was up to us. And, as my ISP is down in the Closed Zone (I called them "control zones,"), I can't do email from home (and so won't be writing again till Monday), here I am, at least for a couple of hours. This morning it's raining, very hard, a frog-strangler. I don't think it's rained this hard this consistently all year. My pants are still wet and the tie's soaked through. This has made rescue attempts pretty much impossible, today, not that at this point anyone is really expecting survivors -- they were saying on the news that the dust down there, wet, has the consistency of oatmeal; and that with every half-inch of rain that falls, several additional tons of weight begin pressing down on everything. The subways down there have also all flooded, even before this, what with water main breaks in evidently several locations (This water of course is also soaking into foundations throughout the area). It's also turning much cooler -- somewhere in the 60s today, and yesterday afternoon it got up to the mid-80s, I think, and was humid enough to notice. It came to me this morning that the reason 30,000 body bags are on hand for what appears will be 5,000 casualties is that the 5,000 are all in pieces, and each piece of course will need to be bagged separately. There was a drawing in the Daily News today showing the outlines of all the buildings surrounding where the Trade Towers stood, and noting that at least 9 of them have suffered major structural damage. The Milennium (sic) Hotel and 1 Liberty Plaza I mentioned yesterday. Among the others in bad shape is one of my favorites, the 1927 Bell Telephone building at the corner of Barclay & West. It stands next to both the North Tower and 7 WTC, both of which collapsed. It's a Ferris-silhouette art deco beauty, and the building is built over the sidewalk on the Barclay St. side, a stone arcade running the length of the block. Cool in the summer. It looks like the only residential area fully evacuated was Battery Park City, where Ellie lives (she is still staying with patrick & Teresa, I am hoping she's been able to get some sleep soon). No word on when that'll open back up but I can't imagine it'll be anytime soon. THis morning, coming out of the subway, I was maybe one of three or four people. After yesterday, which at moments almost felt like a normal day (or, rather, a day in the gone world), today seems much more like Wednesday did, except far more grim due to the rain. As all of you know in the rain New York's color goes, essentially, gray. Very gray. And that's how it looks today. With luck, it will at least finally clear the dust out of the atmosphere (it struck me yesterday that one of the many interesting things we've all been breathing in the past few days are bits of infinitesimally powdered glass). But if the other buildings start falling, the cloud will come back. In this sort of weather in the past, of course, the cloud cover overlying NY would generally be so low as to hide the Trade Towers for view, and it was pleasant to be able to fantasize, at such moments, what downtown NY used to look like when they weren't there. I was reading, somewhere, that some European is already saying that he & others will get all European nations to help rebuild at least one of the towers if not both, bigger and taller and clearly even more of a hideous target. Thank you Europe, but no, please. Here are the ongoing bigger or more interesting changes in the event, both onsite and in media, that I'm noticing. I talked about some of these last night with Clute. 1. The first media memorial teddy bear site appeared. In Union Square, which is right at 14th Street where the No-Traffic Zone begins. Some workmen brought up a piece of steel from the Trade Towers and wrapped it around a stele, or flagpole, or something -- they never pan up of course to show you what the thing is, focusing instead on the flowers being left. The one good thing is at this point, no teddy bears have appeared. It's mostly single flowers and pictures of missing people, so I'm actually not sure that a media-driven Mourning Zone will take hold. I suspect because everything in New York is a Mourning Zone, and everyone here is too much in shock, still, to even be thinking of those goddamned teddy bears. 2. The dawning awareness of New Yorkers, such as myself & Ellen Datlow (who I met for a couple of drinks last night, down in Chelsea, as she was finally able to get above 14th.), that this is actually being paid attention to out in the country. A very funny thing, this -- the sense I think held to varying lengths of time by people who live here that what has happened is in some ways just the mother of all water main breaks. It's impossible for me to really sense, that is, what the mood of a non-New Yorker living in the US is just now, because even now I cannot see it from a non-New York perspective. I always knew New Yorkers were the biggest provincials and this just proves it... 3. Yesterday I walked from work (5th & 53rd) to meet Ellen at a restaurant at 8th & 18th, down in Chelsea. On the way down I saw a large group of people gathered around the front of a souvenir shop, and realized they were going through the postcards buying any with the Trade Towers on them; saw people standing out in front of hotels, clearly not flying out anywhere again today; and on all the mailboxes, in telephone kiosks, on parked vans, on walls, the more the further down I got, photocopied flyers with a photo and a name and a number. We see dead people everywhere. 4. Anti-Arab action increasing, in Brooklyn, but still I think on a smaller scale than what seems to be happening in Michigan and elsewhere. On the day of the event the Uzbekhi guys' frame shop in my neighborhood & Samad's Deli immediately closed. The poor guys were obviously terrified they were going to be overrun -- like anyone at either place would ever have time to be a terrorist; they're always at work. Most New Yorkers I think aren't buying into this, however. 5. But we can always count on the reliable Richard Brookhiser, who in his NY Observer column yesterday was baying for the nukes, and the Post as ever, came through. From yesterday's editorial -- sic the James Ellroy-like use of single sentences as paragraphs: "The heavens need to fall on their heads. They need to bleed. Not next month. Not next week. Now. Who are they? Who cares? Cast a wide enough net, and you'll catch the fish that need catching." Clute actually didn't believe me at first when I read this aloud to him. Notice how by the final sentence the author sounds exactly like an Arab Terrorist Making Ominously Vague Statements Directed At The West. Like attracts like, I suppose. 6. The Disaster Videos. The gang in the network editing rooms have had enough time to put together Meaningful, Olympics-like Montages. Last night's on NBC at 12 midnight was scored to Dylan -- I think it was Dylan, late Dylan, now that his voice is indistinguishable from that of Joseph Spence -- singing "We Shall Overcome." Better than Celine Dion, I suppose, but the worst instincts of the media are of course beginning to emerge. Paul McAuley tells me of seeing of UK TV the same thing I saw, though done by different broadcasters, i.e. as PM put it "two grinning journos demonstrated how easy it is to use MicroSoft Flight Simulator to ram the Twin Towers. The street finds its own use for technology...." Also, they're filling up the time with human interest stories, i.e., talking to someone holding up one of the aforementioned flyers and saying that they can't give up hope, and talking to people who have given up hope. Terribly invasive in both instances. 7. A shrink, around 11:30 last night on ABC, was saying that it is completely possible to get PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder, no longer "syndrome.") through constant watching of the event on TV. So not only will I be living in a city in which nearly all the citizens, myself included, will to some degree be effected by this for months or years, but a good percentage of everybody else in the country, and the world, as well. 8. Probably in relation to the former, I am having a very hard time wanting to know more about the ones they arrested at LaGuardia & Newark yesterday. I haven't even begun to process the event. I hadn't really begun to process the event of my stepmother's dying suddenly, last week. So no, I can't say I'd want to hear *what else* may happen. The desire to extrapolate is, suddenly, gone. Clute & I were talking yesterday about the limitations of metaphor which this event will bring about (he'd better explain it, though). 9. I feel pretty sure that we're not going to be seeing many new big budget blow-em-up movies at least for a while, and we will never view the ones that have already come out, in the past, employing the same eyes again. 10. In relation to some degree with the former, the way in which, periodically, scenes I am viewing in real life are reminiscent, or nearly identical to familiar scenes in movies. One particular view of downtown last night could have come straight out of Bladerunner, no problem; and a view from midtown from the Empire State Building looking downtown, in a sunset-filled orange cloud overhanging the city, looking almost exactly like the old (Bantam, I think) cover of Walter Tevis' MOCKINGBIRD. 11. In relation probably to PTSD, however small-scale, I feel myself at moments, for one of the few times in my life (the other being at certain times in Russia, and at the Galleries Lafayette food hall in Paris) at absolute sensory overload -- that if I know another sensation, just at that moment, I'll become ill. At that point I leave the room, or change the channel to something else. Forbidden Planet was on last night, and I much enjoyed watching it. It was science-fiction not set on earth -- 12. I'm not sure that Blinky, standing at his desk while expressing his concern, is better than Blinky sitting at his desk, expressing his concern; but I suppose his minders felt it gave him more of that Oprah feel. And I think I've reached sensory overload, writing about it. So for now I'll stop. More co-workers have come in, but it's still not a normal day by any stretch. I figure I'll be leaving around noon, as before. Hard rain, falling. I'll actually leave the last word to Paul, who closed his letter to me today with this; and I couldn't do better. The Last Night of the Proms, the traditional end to the Promenade series of concerts, traditionally finishes with a rousing queasily patriotic chorus of 'Land of Hope and Glory'. Not now: instead, Leonard Slatkin will be conducting the orchestral setting of Barber's 'Adagio for Strings', which thanks to Oliver Stone has become your plangent accompaniment to national mourning, followed by the defiant thunder of the last movement of Beethoven's Ninth. They've judged it right. Paul

Evelyn, Tamsin is an Afghani-American who has been living here for 35. His country is America. Thank you for posting Tamsin's letter. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. My husband is Italian and he has been saying this for years, that it would happen. This is their holy war, this is just what they want. Americans and the international community believe they will be going to war to fight against terrorist, but they will be fighting the holy war.

Marcia, I wasn't at all offended by Rob's use of capital letters. He only used them to emphasize one particular thought in his post. It is a time of high emotion and different people express themselves differently. As it is also a time of high stress, some may react to certain things more strongly than would be the norm. It would seem that no harm was meant either by Rob or those who had been put off by his use of upper case letters. I've been able to contact my friends living in New York. Everyone is physically fine, but they say that they feel emotionally sick and bruised. So do I for that matter. Lastly, the Pennsylvania crash site isn't all that near Pittsburgh. It lies about 80 miles to the southeast, near the Maryland border, about 35 miles SSW of Johnstown. Pittsburgh is the largest city near it, and more people have an idea of where Pittsburgh is than were Johnstown, PA is. The plane crashed in Somerset county which is a very rural area. It came down in a cornfield. Fortunately no one on the ground was hurt.

Last night one network (I forget which) reported that they had "found" 10 policemen on the 2nd underground level...one of them had reached his wife via cel phone. Has anyone heard more about this? Is it confirmed? I could find nothing about it on any of the other networks.

It was a hoax. Friday September 14 11:36 AM ET NY Mayor Asks Media for Accuracy By DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer NEW YORK (AP) - Mayor Rudolph Giuliani (news - web sites) asked the news media to be more careful reporting about the World Trade Center rescue operation Friday, saying wrong information is raising false hopes and endangering workers. ``Some of it can be very dangerous and emotionally damaging,'' he said. He cited false reports that a potential survivor had been in contact with people by cell phone, and that 10 or 15 people were trapped alive in a store. Media outlets reported Thursday that five firefighters trapped since Tuesday had been rescued from the trade center rubble. It later turned out that only two who were trapped in an air pocket for several hours Thursday were found alive. Not only does false information play with the emotions of people with missing friends and relatives, it can send rescue workers on dangerous, fruitless chases, he said. He urged news organizations not to report such details until confirmed by police and FBI (news - web sites). ``If we could all be a little more patient and verify information before we put it out, we won't raise people's hopes unnecessarily,'' Giuliani said. CNN anchorwoman Paula Zahn, responding on the air to Giuliani's request, noted that it has been difficult to get accurate information out of the rescue site. ``We're all trying to heed this advice,'' she said. ``Unfortunately, everybody is being given conflicting information.'' ABC, CBS, NBC and the cable networks were into their fourth day of exclusive devotion to the story on Friday. News executives say they're keeping in mind television's role as a national gathering place in times of emergency. Network news chiefs uniformly expressed pride in how their profession has performed this week. ``There's really been a careful approach to the story that combines aggressiveness in getting information out with the awareness that we should not be speculating and we should not be alarming people,'' said CBS News President Andrew Heyward. NBC is being careful in its wording to not equate Islam with extremism even if some of the religion's believers masterminded the attack, network news President Neal Shapiro said. Until Giuliani announced Thursday that 4,763 people were missing at the World Trade Center, networks had generally been careful not to guess on the number of casualties. An exception: network reports that as many as 800 people died at the Pentagon; the estimate is now 190. There were also widely varying reports on the number of body bags brought to the World Trade Center site. News organizations also made different decisions when confronted with video depicting victims jumping from the World Trade Center to certain deaths; CBS showed it, ABC refused. ``It was not some sort of gratuitous, individual tragedy where we were exploiting someone's personal pain for some kind of sensational purpose,'' Heyward said. ``Quite the opposite. This was absolutely germane to the context of the story and vividly conveyed the sheer horror in a way that was journalistically appropriate.'' Offered the same video, ``without any hesitation we turned it down,'' said ABC News President David Westin. ``I don't believe that showing actual human beings leaping to their deaths was helpful.'' CNN showed images of things falling from the World Trade Center, but they weren't necessarily identifiable as humans, CNN Chairman Walter Isaacson said. NBC showed footage of a body falling once and decided not to anymore. The same was true at Fox News Channel. ``I don't think it's an easy call,'' NBC's Shapiro said. ``I don't condemn anybody who chose to run it.'' At least two networks were planning specials to help children cope. Peter Jennings will anchor a one-hour ABC special for youngsters Saturday morning, and Nickelodeon will present ``Nick News: Kids, Terrorism and the American Spirit'' with Linda Ellerbee on Sunday night. ---------------------------------------- If someone who knows how would delete my double post, I would be grateful. -- I think I hit reload and it sent all again - at least it shows on my computer.

Thanks, Suzee. (I only saw one copy of your post, by the way.)

we are skating on thin ice in this topic by venting our anger here. this will not help anyone. the afghani-american writer above makes sense, IMMHO. the Holy War is what these people want. and they sure as heck are trying hard to get it too. it's all around us, look at Israel, look at the Serbs, look at Ireland, for goodness sakes. this is ridiculous. ok, the service today was wonderful though i was a bit worried about all those people in the same place. tonight at 7, please light a candle!! and if you've flown a flag today, thank you so much. my sub-division either didn't have the flags or were too afraid to show them but to those who did, thank you very much!!

My candle is lit and sitting vigil at the base of my flagpole.. 7 PM was 1 PM here and it is broad day light. The candle will remain as long as it burns. The flag at half staff is coming down at sunset to rise then lower to half staff again tomorrow. Fighting amongst ourselves just plays into their hands. Come on world, we're better than that!!! Terry, MSNBC ran the Bin Ladin interview this afternoon again. You sure you want to see this man?

a new CNN article which explains how the Taliban are trying to defend Bin Laden and turn this into a religious war: http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/09/14/afghan.denial/ _Prepare for Holy War_ "Now, the third empire of the world wants to impose an attack on us," [supreme Afghan leader Mullah Mohammed Omar] said. "As you know better, it is not because of Osama [bin Laden]. This is the demonization of Islam." Well, this idiotic move does nothing more than confirm their role as a Bin Laden conspirator.

... To insistent chants of "U.S.A.! U.S.A.!" from the crowds of workers, Mr. Bush took hold of a small bullhorn and climbed atop a small pile of rubble. He then shouted over a chorus of cheers that he wanted the rescuers to know that all America was deeply grateful for their efforts. "This nation stands with the good people of New York City, and New Jersey and Connecticut, and we mourn the loss of thousands of our citizens" he said. To cries of "George, we cant hear you!" the President replied: "I can hear you! I can hear you!" "The rest of the world hears you," he added. "And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!" ... more at: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/14/national/15CND-BUSH.html

that was wonderful--the chanting and that he went straight in there...but because of the whole security issue where he is concerned, the operation slowed down. did anyone else get that impression? yes, terry, The Holy War between the west and islam.

Please, just do not make a martyr of Osama Bin Ladin. I am pleased with how America is responding. Makes me all gritty determination mixed with misty patriotism. I will do without, I will do what is necessary. Just do it right! Go to website and see the pics in all 4 sections. Humbling, maddening, speechless... This should never have happened. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/attack/newyork/6.htm

that was wonderful--the chanting and that he went straight in there...but because of the whole security issue where he is concerned, the operation slowed down. did anyone else get that impression? yes, terry, The Holy War between the west and islam.

No one's making a martyr of Bin Laden. He's dispicable. They keep saying he's worth $300 million. The Banks aren't very top notch in Afghanistan. Where's he keeping this money. We should find out and confiscate all his money. NBC is now reporting that a couple of guys with box cutters were arrested off an Amtrak train in San Antonio, the cops thought they were drug dealers because they had a lot of cash. Now they're thought to be major players in this terrorist network. It's been getting a lot of local attention, now it's starting to break nationally. US officials are in the Caymans investigating a letter warning about a major terrorist act against the US involving airlines. It was treated as "merely speculation" by the government (whose?, the Caymans?). Three men are being held in the Cayman Islands.

This Cayman's connection sounds like that's where they might have a bank account. That should be investigated. the Holy War is what these people want. We are going back to the Crusades. There has been a major influx of Muslims all over Europe and in some cases such as Rome, they insist on having a mosque built. I would like to see in which Muslim country one can go live at and insist they build a Catholic church. It would never happen.

Sebastian Mendler (smendler) Fri Sep 14 '01 (20:26) 83 lines Subject: groping towards a solution (fwd) Hi, friends -- Okay, let's see here... tell me if I am incorrect in any of the following points, or in the reasoning that I am trying to distill from them. 1. Unless I remember wrongly, the Japanese were seen during WWII much the same way as the Islamic Extremists are being seen now -- driven by religious fervor, unable to be reasoned with for that reason, not afraid to die for their cause. 2. This religious fervor was defused after the war by Hirohito shedding his divine status, and a constitutional monarchy being established in Japan. 3. The majority of Japanese had little or no problem making the transition. This probably had something to do with the fact that the most fervent believers in the old system were, well, dead. 4. The huge occupation force in Japan both respected many traditional Japanese institutions, and defanged the more troublesome ones. 5. At the same time, the Americans in that force brought back to the US awareness of many aspects of Japanese and Asian culture that had hitherto been little-known in the US. 6. They also brought along some wives. 7. The Afghani people are in dire straits indeed -- so dire, some say, that bombing them would be pointless, there's nothing worth bombing. The resulting weakness is one reason why the Taliban have not been tossed out on their turbans. 8. As the saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. 9. The point of the globalist movement -- which one assumes includes Bush, Powell, et al. -- is that Our Way of Life is the best one, so we need to get everybody involved in it. At least, that's sorta what they'll tell you if you ask. 10. The Japanese, rebuilt, became an economic powerhouse, and a key player in the world economy. It liked the results. The former militarist viewpoint, while still maintained by a few bitter conservatives, lost its former stranglehold on the soul of the nation. 11. So perhaps it makes more sense, not to try a purely military operation, but rather to try more of a *cultural* invasion. Think of the liberation of Pepperland from the Blue Meanies by the Beatles in _Yellow Submarine_. Restore color, light, and music to a dark, silent, depressed land. Wall-to-wall carpeting, not carpet bombings. PT Cruisers, not cruise missiles. Water, not napalm. Perfume, not tear gas. 12. Such an operation would still have its military aspects, and they would be huge. All the invading force of aid workers, fashion designers, educators, doctors, chefs, musicians, jugglers, car dealers, etc. would need to be protected while they did their jobs. Any attacking forces would be squelched, stomped, eradicated; but in the absence of attacks, life would get better and better for the folks that cooperated. This force would be much more like a police force than an army. (Sometimes, the best defense is to not be offensive.) 13. At the same time, we would not repeat the Soviets' mistake of trying to eradicate the fundamentalists. Chase them into the hills, and let them live their lives the way they want to. In fact, make sure they do; protect them from *all* outside influences, and protect the outside from theirs. Do not try to follow them into the mountains. 14. In this scenario, there would be plenty of opportunities for the more bloodthirsty among us to kick some righteous butt -- the beachheads (so to speak) will be tough to establish -- but these opportunities would ultimately be in the service of the healers. 14. At the same time, there are transformations to be effected within the Western world -- but maybe we should save that for another time... Am I on a promising track here? / /skip

Terry, Dear, you were not the one I thought might martyr this sick man and his followers. Unhappily we need give them no more reasons to hate Americans and want to kill them. His followers need little urging to create mayhem, it seems. *HUGS* (despicable is the nicest thing I have heard him called all week!)

Bin Laudin is an ex-Saudi. He just about holds the ruling house ther hostage for letting us land jets in Saudi Arabia during the gulf war. I am certain Swiss accounts are numerous, too.

Oh Skip, if only it were that simple. We are discussing a belief system here not a political one. Too many serf in both instances. How long do you think the dress designers would last in a land and religion which hides their women and treats them as chattel (not to mention mutillation, so I won't mention it.) Our do-gooders would be deader then doornails as soon as they landed. This is an other world. They are not insular, this cell system of radical Islamists! They infiltrate every layer of society and in OUR country of dress desingers, and still loathe us enough to kill us in cold blood - civilians!!! Think some more... I'm listening!

Well seeing as Bin Laden is as good as he is, at keeping his movements and his intentions hidden, I doubt if hiding $300 million in a series of international bank accounts, would be all that hard for him. If it is stashed away in Swiss bank accounts, I'm not holding my breath that it can be found and confiscated any time soon. How long did it take for the Swiss banking authorities to finally cooperate, in tracking down loot stolen by the Nazi's....45, 50 years ?

The Japanese, rebuilt, became an economic powerhouse, and a key player in the world economy. This was the way that the Brigate Rosse terrorists in Italy where defeated as well. And did you know that Baywatch is the number 1 TV show in Iran? Unfortunately, the world has not acted on this before and now things have gone too far. Their Muslim radical power works on the poor because religion thrives in poor countries. The Jihad has started. I only pray that no atomic bombs will be used from either side.

If it is stashed away in Swiss bank accounts, I'm not holding my breath that it can be found and confiscated any time soon. It is different now. There no longer is secrecy in Swiss banking.

ROTFLMAO Moon.....Baywatch is the Number 1 rated program in Iran ? Are you serious ? Yikes, I bet the late Ayatollah Khomeni is just thrilled to bits, not to mention David Hasslehoff....LOL Thanks for that Moon, I needed a good laugh after this weeks trauma. By the way, what are #2 and #3 Three's Company and Charlie's Angels ?

I have never experienced such a massive show of patriotism as I have in the last few days. Last week, I admit that I would have passed many American flags with my thoughts absorbed in something else, never really and truly acknowledging the stars and stripes and for what that flag stands for. Somehow, in times past, the word "patriotism" has always rattled a little nerve in the "government-is-out-to-get-us" leftist side of me. Today, though, I am beginning to look at that flag and the word "patriotism" in a different light. Don't get me wrong - I'll still be looking over my shoulder, but, I am feeling a great sense of togetherness with this "patriotism" attitude. It is only saddening to realize what it has taken to get me to this place.

http://pain.outloud.org/gary/thankyou/ These are photos from around the world of people stopping and praying, lighting candles, etc. big page but worth the wait time. There's a photo of Arafat giving blood. And this link is to a Yahoo! "slide show" of 20+ photos of newspaper front pages from around the world after the attack. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?p=news&g=events/ts/091201newspapers&e=1&tmpl=sl&nosum=0&large=0?tamp=1000366704",610,580); This was an attack on the world trade center and it was an attack on the world, that building housed so many nationalities and religious types, I'd like to see a breakdown. BBC morning news reports that Pakistan is not going to allow an assault from bases in their country, we'll have to stage from India? Or Dushanbe? The Russians may be advising us on how to invade Afghanistan, do you see the irony in this? We're going to need a multi-faceting approach with not only air strikes but covert activity and ground troops. And at the same tiem we're going to have to bolster our homeland defense, unlike the Gulf War where there were only air strikes and no danger at home.

Pakistan won't allow flights originating from their land but they'll most likely allow flyovers. The European community may offer some support but not likely overwhelming, though I'm comforted by Tony Blair's statements and actions, they've been courageous. Russia and India will be our staunchest allies. Need a million or so soldiers? India has 'em and would probably put them out on to the battlefield. An alliance with Russia will minimize China overnight. I just hope I'm wrong about lukewarm Euro participation. This is the first war of this century in a millenium that started out looking like it would belong to China and Asia. Now that balance may be changing and it will become the century of global, English speaking democracies lead by America, India, Canada, UK, Australia, and New Zealand. This may have the effect of changing the balance of power for a century to come. We're lost the symbol of our Western global economy, but in the processed it's galvanized the global English speaking democracies in a way we would never have done spontaneously. Think about this in your little cave, Osama. Think about a wealthy, technologically advanced, English speaking India ruling the region. Think about about a total global power change that will transform tragedy in to a brighter future for all mankind. India and Russia may need this kind of power boost from the US, they're struggling and they need to be galvanized and energized in the direction of becoming sane, technologically advanced democracies.

"English" is not the tie that binds when it comes to India's involvement.

Tha Russians did rather poorly in Afghanistan and I doubt that India would would be heavily involved. I would like to see what those tradionally "leftist" European countries do.

As for the lukewarm European leaders' response, didn't they learn from the 1930's that appeasement did not change any outcome?

Karen is right. If India joins this, it will probably be for Hindu revenge against the Muslims.

FBI Press Response September 14, 2001 Washington D.C. FBI National Press Office The following is a list of the nineteen (19) individuals who have been identified as hijackers aboard the four airliners that crashed on September 11, 2001, into the North and South Towers of the World Trade Center in New York, the Pentagon, and Stony Creek Township, Pennsylvania. Information listed for each hijacker differs, but may include date of birth, address provided, or visa status. This is the extent of the information available at this time. The FBI requests that anyone who may have information about these individuals-even though they are presumed to be dead- to immediately contact an FBI filed office or call the toll-free hotline at 1-866-483-5137. American Airlines #77 Boeing 757 8:10 am departed Washington Dulles for Los Angeles 9:39 am crashed into the Pentagon 1) Khalid Al-Midhar - Possible residence (s) : San Diego, California and New York, New York; Visa Status: B-1 Visa, but B-2 Visa had expired. 2) Majed Moqed - No information available. 3) Nawaq Alhamzi - Possible residence (s) : Fort Lee, New Jersey and Wayne, New Jersey and San Diego, California. 4) Salem Alhamzi - Possible residence (s) : Fort Lee, New Jersey, and Wayne, New Jersey. 5) Hani Hanjour - Possible residence (s) : Phoenix, Arizona and San Diego, California. Believed to be a pilot. American Airlines #11 Boeing 767 7:45 am departed Boston for Los Angeles 8:45 am crashed into North Tower of the World Trade Center 1) Satam Al Suqami - Date of birth used: June 28, 1976; Last known address: United Arab Emirates. 2) Waleed M. Alshehri - Dates of birth used: September 13, 1974/January 1, 1976/ March 3, 1976/ July 8, 1977/ December 20, 1978/ May 11, 1979/ November 5, 1979; Possible residence (s) : Hollywood, Florida/ Orlando, Florida/ Daytona Beach, Florida; Believed to be a pilot. 3) Wail Alshehri - Date of birth used: July 31, 1973; Possible residence (s) 4) Mohamed Atta - Date of birth used: September 1, 1968; Possible residence (s) : Hollywood, Florida/ Coral Springs, Florida/ Hamburg, Germany; Believed to be a pilot. 5) Abdulaziz Alomari - Date of birth used: December 24, 1972 and May 28, 1979; Possible residence: Hollywood, Florida; Believed to be a pilot. United Airlines #175 Boeing 767 7:58 am departed Boston for Los Angeles 9:05 am crashed into South Tower of the World Trade Center 1) Marwan Al-Shehhi - Date of birth used: May 9, 1978; Possible residence: Hollywood, Florida; Visa Status: B-2 Visa; Believed to be a pilot. 2) Fayez Ahmed - Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida. 3) Ahmed Alghamdi - Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida. 4) Hamza Alghamdi - Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida. 5) Mohald Alshehri - Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida. United Airlines #93 Boeing 757 8:01 am departed Newark, New Jersey, for San Francisco 10:10 am crashed in Stony Creek Township, Pennsylvania 1) Saeed Alghamdi - Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida. 2) Ahmed Alhaznawi - Date of birth used: October 11, 1980; Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida. 3) Ahmed Alnami - Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida. 4) Ziad Jarrahi - Believed to be a pilot. Topic 14 [attack]: Events of Sept 11, 2001 #54 of 65: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Fri Sep 14 '01 (21:26) 85 lines *Every Time I Hear "A New Era for Humanity" Announced, I Really Have to Wonder If It Can Last Even Six Months *8-/ Subject: Yann Moix: A New Era for Humanity Date: Friday, September 14, 2001 11:52 AM From: Patrice Riemens Reply-To: Patrice Riemens To: A New Era for Humanity by Yann Moix Liberation (Paris), September 14, 2001 original in French at http://www.liberation.com/ny2001/actu/20010914venze.html Bingo, folks! The World will never go at war again, and yet it will be at war always, period. War and non-war, there shall be no difference any more. From the 11th of September 2001, all will be war, even peace. Peace shall no longer be the opposite of war, but its context, its natural environment, its ecosystem, its scene, its background, its screen-saver. War and peace shall no longer be each others contraries (that was in the good old manichean East vs West times), but they shall be imbricated the one in the other, like the two connected faces of the same reality. Peace shall be a kind of specific sub-case of war. War shall henceforth be everywhere and nowhere. War shall be waged in the dustbins of the Paris railtermini, war shall be waged above our heads in the air of the metropolises. War shall be permanent. War shall be open for business 24/24, 7/7 , just like CNN. There shall be intermissions, but no reprieve. It shall be a war blind, yet precise, fuzzy, yet targeted. Because never before has the distortion been so stark between fuziness of the causes and the acuurateness of the strikes. The First HyperWorldWar has started. It is a war where all pretenses will fly, and where acts will be used as statements of purpose afterwards. Let's call this a hyperwar: a world where the ordinary, natural context of societies is no longer peace, but war. A hyperwar is not a classic world war with opposite fighting sides. It is a 'non-Euclydian', non-catalogised war, without rules and principles others than its own logic. Hyperwar cannot be localised in space. Nor in time. It is a kind of magnum opus of terrorism,its _best of_ or rather its _worst of_: plane hijacks, crashes, bombs, kamikaze operations. In fact it was the 20th century as a whole that was fast-forwarded in just a couple of minutes on the 11th of September, 2001. And that will be the birth certificate of the 21st Century, like (the 31st of July) 1914 was it for the 20th. But it are no longer states which are waging war, but wars that are making states. But then, unheard of sort of states: non-nation-states, states without teritorry, without citizens or borders, without (elected) governements, nay, these are virtual states, scattered war-states, fuzzy, networked octopus-states, community-states whose only borders are ideological. These states, just like virusses, evolve, adjust, mutate, invent and reinvent themselves everyday. Sometimes, their size is reduced to that of a lone individual who is an ideology, an army, a clear and present danger all unto himself. And a walking bomb. After the era of the statesmen comes the era of the state-men. The political state has become undistinguishable from the biological state. Over these past days, we have been bombarded with the metaphor of Pearl Harbour: nothing could be further from the truth. Pearl Harbour was an episode within a war. The 11th of september was the definition of an other type of war, the starting point for a new era in human history. The human element is now being affected all over the planet, since hyperwars feeds itself on the psychoses it creates by the permanent menace it exerts on all. Psychosis has become the continuation of war by other means. It gnaws at the individual, it eats up her/his mind, it shatters her/his rational structure. It is a war on the 'may be/ may be not' mode, whereby the horror is mainly a potential one. And thus, it is a war that may have a beginning, but no end. Hyperwar is built for the long run. It thrives in totality, that of the universe and of eternity. (Halelujah! - tr -) (Q&D translation by yours truly) Reposted without permission whatsoever # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net

The Tamil Tigers in India have caused thousands of deaths because of terrorist attacks. As you see this is truly a Holy War. Those "leftist" European Countries have lost their religion and have become homocentric. There is -0 population growth because young couples even if they bother to get married are not interested in having children. They prefer the material to the spiritual. It will be interesting to see what kind of allegiance those countries give the US.

Just heard Netenyahu (sp?) on Fox. He made a good point. The reporter tried to make a comparison between the communists and the terriorists with regard to nuclear weapons. He said that was incorrect. He said the communists put their lives above their ideology. These people put their ideology above their lives.

A chronology of strikes by Laden on US interests NEERAJ SAXENA TIMES OF INDIA NEWS NETWORK NEW DELHI: A glance at the chronology of terrorist attacks made on the US in the past one decade would indicate that the destiny of the US and its one- time bete noire Osama bin Laden have almost become inextricable. If the US is to be believed, almost all the attacks have been carried out or aided by bin Laden. However, the US has been harsh with its usual suspect just once. The missile attacks on his safe haven in Afghanistan and Sudanese factory was the only time when the US displayed its military might in retaliation. In 1996, former President Bill Clinton had even signed a secret order that authorised the CIA to use any and all means to destroy Laden's network, but the world's most powerful state has not been able to ensure this. In August, 1996, a secret grand jury investigation began against bin Laden in New York. He was quick to sign and issue a declaration of jihad on August 23 against the US and UAE, outlining his organisation's goals. CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS December 29, 1992: A bomb exploded in a hotel in Aden, Yemen, where the US troops had been staying while en route to a humanitarian mission in Somalia against guerilla leader Muhammed Aidid. The blast killed two Austrian tourists as the US soldiers had already left. RESPONSE: Two Yemeni Muslim militants, trained in Afghanistan and injured in the blast, arrested later. US intelligence agencies said this was the first terrorist attack involving bin Laden. February 26, 1993: A car bomb went off in the basement parking of the now fallen World Trade Centre, killing six people and injuring over 1,000. RESPONSE: Six accused, including the mastermind and confidante of Laden -- Ramzi Yousef -- sentenced to 240 years in prison for the bombing, for plotting to destroy WTC, the UN headquarters and to plant bombs on airliners flying out of the east coast. Ramzi was extradited from Pakistan and had close links with Laden according to the US. October 3, 1993: Eighteen US troops killed in a guerilla attack in Mogadishu, Somalia. American law enforcement, intelligence and national security officials are divided as to whether, as a Federal indictment charges, bin Laden and his associates trained and armed Somalia warlord Aidid's men. RESPONSE: Over 300 rebels claimed to have been killed by the US Rangers. April 19, 1995: A US government establishment in Oklahoma city bombed by an explosives laden truck parked in the car park of Alfred P Murrah building, killing 168 people, and wounding over 500. RESPONSE: Initially, the US suspected Osama bin Laden to be behind the bombing, but a 27-year-old misguided youth Timothy McVeigh was captured later, convicted and later executed. A key witness Terry Nichols sentenced for life. November 13, 1995: Five Americans and two Indians killed in the truck bombing of a US-operated Saudi National Guard training center in Riyadh. RESPONSE: The US accuses bin Laden. He denies involvement, but praises the attack. June 25, 1996: A large truck bomb devastates the US military residence in Dhahran called Khobar Towers, killing 19 servicemen. RESPONSE: The US military initially Laden had a hand in the attack, but now believes that a Saudi Shiite group was responsible. But US investigators still believe Bin Laden was somehow involved. August 7, 1998: US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania bombed by a suicide bomber, killing over 230 people and leaving over 4,500 injured. RESPONSE: US retaliates swiftly on August 20 by firing 70-80 `Tomahawk' Cruise missiles at alleged terrorist training camps in Khost, Afghanistan and the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan saying it was a chemical weapons factory. Several of Osama Bin Laden's alleged co- conspirators put behind bars in the US. October 12, 2000: A small dinghy laden with explosives rammed into US warship USS Cole in Aden Harbour, Yemen, killing 17 US sailors and injuring 39 others. RESPONSE: Besides blaming Laden, the US has not done much by the way of a retaliation so far.

335 newspaper front pages -- 189 from the day after the attack and 146 extra editions published on the day of the hijackings. http://www.poynter.org/index.cfm

On the topic of bin Laden's money, Forbes has some info: http://www.forbes.com/2001/09/14/0914ladenmoney.html Highlights: Although bin Laden's been kicked out of Saudi Arabia and his citizenship revoked, much of his money is 'tied up in businesses' in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. He also has access to 'charitable foundations,' not named, that are 'unregulated and untaxed.' Following a description of the abject poverty of Afghanistan, it talks about how bin Laden and other expatriate Saudis live there and pay 'a lot of rent.' You can afford a private army for $35,000 a month as you don't have to pay people much. Money is transferred from country to country via an informal network called "Hundi," basically just individuals transferring money among themselves. Very difficult to track.

We could probably solve the airline hijack issue with the installation of an "auto lander" which could over ride the pilots and land the plane if it deviated off course and the pilots did not respond with a password or other test. The airline doors need to be strengthened and pilots shouldn't be able to open them during flight, and anyone on the passenger side of the door or doors (two or three makes more sense) would absolutely be unable to penetrate them. The problem is solvable. But there are so many other unsolved procedures we need to put in place for so many as yet undreamed of scenarios.

From http://www.janes.com, a global security website, has issued a list of the places that are known to have involvement with Al-Qaeda, bin Laden's organization Algeria Egypt, Morocco Turkey Jordan Tajikistan Uzbekistan Syria Xinjiang in China Pakistan Bangladesh Malaysia Myanmar Indonesia Mindanao in the Philippines Lebanon Iraq Saudi Arabia Kuwait Bahrain Yemen, Libya Tunisia Bosnia Kosovo Chechnya Dagestan Kashmir Sudan, Somalia Kenya Tanzania Azerbaijan Eritrea Uganda Ethiopia The West Bank and Gaza.

Correct me if I am under a misconception, but do we not worship the same GOD ultimately? How can they call it a Holy War and worship God? I have a copy of the Q'ran and it says nothing of the kind they are espousing. It is an excuse for greed and warped minds in which to find reason for their vengeance.

it is just like anything else, cultish behavior brainwashing persons wishing to belong to anything. islam is a peaceful religion. i was told that the women wear the abayaah to protect themselves from being leered at by men. when they are home, the abayaah is removed. much like the latino community, arabians are family oriented and often house extended families. at no time did i feel like i was a piece of garbage while in Kuwait. the stares that i received were because i am different from what they are used to seeing. men and women of all walks live and work there. these people are just like us, have the same concerns as we do. i witnessed one father rewarding his child for a job well done at school. so please, do not assume that the arabian community is strange and should be feared. there are radicals in all communities, look at the guy in montana, he was american! look at the KKK, hello, people! sadly, there are scams out there to get your money all in the name of this tragedy. do not give to these telemarketers because there is no campaign to gain donations this way. something interesting: the taliban first mumbled that this was terrible, then pleaded that we do not bomb this poor country, then threatening surrounding neighbors that if they support the U.S., they will be attacked by holy warriors.

but do we not worship the same GOD ultimately? You must go back to the Crusades, Marcia to get your answer. i was told that the women wear the abayaah to protect themselves from being leered at by men. Women are barely seen in the streets. They are second class citizens if at all. A western woman respectfully travelling in those countries (as I have found myslf on occassion), better not get the urge to go to the bathroom outside their hotel.

The assassination of Massoud was no coincidence. It was most likely a signature attack by Bin Laden to eliminate Afghanistan's greatest anti-Taliban fighter. He was killed by explosives hidden in a belt or camera the day before the WTC attack. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/15/international/asia/15MASS.html http://frontierpost.com.pk/main.asp?id=8&date1=9/15/2001 I'm unclear if Pakistan will or will not allow us to use their country as a staging area. If someone hears about this will they post it here? GERMAN OFFICIALS have asked the FBI and the Securities and Exchange Commission to look into whether bin Laden�s associates may have �sold short� stock in a Munich, Germany, company that holds secondary insurance on the World Trade Center. http://www.msnbc.com/news/629380.asp The stock market will open at 9:30 pm EST on Monday. Biggest losers: airline stocks Biggest winners: military, cellular, security, tech stocks Other big losers: insurance stocks, hotels Other winners: teleconferencing systems, construction companies, fractional aircraft. Ramzi Yusef, architect of first World Trade Center bombing, carried plans for airliner suicide crashes: http://www.worldtribune.com/wta/Archive-2001/me_terrorism_09_13.html

I slipped with Moon.

in case there is any confusion, i was told by a kuwaiti man why the women wear an abaayah. yes, there are countries in which arabian women are treated as third-class citizens. but, it was witnessed by me, women were treated with respect, no walking 6-ft behind the man or anything. they drove, ran businesses, walked with their similarily clad men, wearing gold jewelry, etc. i can only relay what i saw in kuwait. these men wait until they are well into their 30's before marrying in order to prove that they are worthy of a wife, to care for her financially and whatever children they have. one arabian man said it clearly, the Koran (sp?) condemns behavior such as this. the muslim community needs to stand up to bin laden and use the word to show him as being wrong. several islamic people were interviewed and again reiterated that the Koran doesn't suggest anything of this nature. in fact, the Koran refers to all religions, christianity and judaism, not as being infidels, but as those included in the book, and infidels being those who do not believe at all (athiests). bin laden may see this as a holy war, but, it is not, because the religion he proclaims to be an interpretor of, would not allow this. again, it's based on perception. another thing i find interesting is that all the time, we are referred to as the devil, evil, etc. isn't that what we're doing? the deed was evil but we cannot condemn a whole peoples because of that. yes, i believe the guilty should and will pay. and so, i pray that the countries vowing support and our country do not do anything irrationally. that we think through whatever our actions may be. yes, we are angry, that is a step in grief, but let us take our time and move through this. anyway, who am i to say anything..... i think this discussion is healthy. *HUGS* to all!!!

oh yeah, this may be the least of their worries right now, but....has anyone started piling up the mass of paper that flew out of the WTC? i wonder if any of the accounts and such could be put back together with what was left of that? and, how come the paper didn't incinerate?

Totally changing the subject for a sec.....I saw on CNN yesterday that the major US airlines lost $300 million per day, when they were grounded for 3 days. I am puzzled by this. I can understand why they may lose money in future, from a drop off in bookings. But surely every person who booked a flight from Sep 11-13, would have paid for it in advance. Who here of us, goes some where with out having booked and paid for it weeks, if not months in advance ? So wouldn't the airlines have the money from all those grounded flights, already in the bank ? I can see where they would lose money from the refunds they gave some people. But news reports showed most people waiting the delay out and not getting refunds. So where did this $300 million loss come from ? Sorry if I sound mercenary and trivial. I am the daughter of an airline man, so I suppose curiosity about them, is in my blood.

Hugs to both Wolfie and Moon. You are both right. I just talked to a close friend who is Lebanese Muslim. She says depending on your sect, the rules vary as does status in the community make for variations. You also don't show the soles of your feet and you do not eat with your right hand....they do not shake hands - you wipe off human waste with that hand... and on and on. We need no acrimony....we are dealing with people who do not even understand each other!

The losses were not from this week's flights. The airlines have already received most of the money for this week's tickets. But they also sell tickets on a daily basis for next week, next month, next year, etc. Apparently they would have sold $300M worth of these tickets per day. Because of the crisis, they could not, because they did not know when, or if, they would be able to fly again. Even now that flights have resumed, they apparently anticipate a substantial reduction in the number of tickets sold, due to fear of flying, longer delays at airports due to security, etc. From now on, it's going to be an uphill battle to sell tickets to people who don't "need" to fly. This is why they expect to lose a lot of money. They still have the same number of planes to pay for, airport lease facilities to pay for, etc. So--the same fixed expenditures going out with much less in ticket sales coming in. The only "flexible" spending they have in the short run is employees, so they have to lay people off. And they were already hurting big time from the increase in fuel prices. Not many glimmers of hope for them.

Kuwait is not Afghanistan. Kuwait does not have a fundamentalist theocracy. Afghani Muslims are not Arabs. Perhaps you're not aware of what the Taliban has done to women since taking over there. I believe I've heard that 60% of the airlines costs are fixed (paid out regardless of whether they fly or not). As you must be aware, the airlines don't make any money on those tickets to poor idiots like us, who get discounted fares. The full-fare tickets for business flyers subsidize the rest of us. *HUGS* to all!!!

Thanks Karen and yes, we are not dealing with an easy problem. I had one guy IM me today he was so angry he just tore up a remote highway at 100 mph (yeah, in the Cobra) We need to bond not feud and if we do not hug one another, we are doomed. "Group Hug" sounds so foolish but I think it is warranted. *HUGS TO ALL*, as Karen put it so well!

For those of you who hear of phophesies, please look at this page before leaping onto the pyre: http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/hoaxes/predict.htm

The full plan: 1. Destroy the World's Financial hub (succeeded beyond wildest dreams of terrorists) 2. Take out the military center of the US (very partial success) 3. Take out the President or Congress (failed) Good thing they only partially succeeded, if they had gone 3 for 3 we'd be in very, very serious trouble right now. This is not World War III, not yet anyway. This is about a band of criminals who are holding a decimated country in fear and trembling. The link for the Canada piece that Alice, my sister, sent me is http://www.rcc.ryerson.ca/schools/rta/ccf/personal/hof/sincla_g.html Gordon Sinclair wrote it, he died in 1984, the piece was written in '73 and was inspired by the criticism of America during the Vietnam era. I'll send this to my sister so she understands the context. It's in very wide circulation. From what I've read, I think the best approach would be to work cooperatively with the Afghan resistance and with India/Pakistan against the Taliban, one which allow a democratic state to emerge comprised of native Afghans.

slippage again.

Gee thanks CNN, the whereabouts of Britany Spears is foremost in my thoughts these days. CNN has a news ticker across the bottom of their screen and it is all really serious stuff...Bush speech extracts, Talaban declarations, death toll estimates, etc etc Then all of a sudden this appears...." Pop Princess Britany Spears is stranded in Australia, due to the FAA ban on all international flights. She has cancelled all her European engagements at this time. " I mean hello CNN.....who gives a rats a$$ ? By the way, what is this about a ban on incoming international flights ? It's the first I have heard of it ? Is it true, or did I read the ticker thingy wrong ? I guess I was just distracted by the plight of poor lil' Britany....LOL

1. Destroy world's financial hub ( suceeded beyond wildest dreams ) Did they really ? A lot of companies have ( in a purely logistical sense ) been put to a lot of expense and inconvenience. But has the world's financial hub really been destroyed ? Several buildings have gone down, but the infrastructure remains intact, bruised and bloody to be sure, but still intact. New York is one huge financial colossus, it is a many headed beast, with many, many tentacles. As devestating as the loss of the WTC is ( in human and monetary terms ). It is just one of these heads, the main body of the beast remains alive. ( Sorry, didn't mean to make that sound like something from a horror flick. ) As an example, the HQ of American Express were in Tower #1. They occupied 1 million sq ft of office space on many floors. However, they ( bless 'em ) took their butts across the river to temporary quarters in Jersey City. They now expect to be up and running ( at granted, very limited capacity, for now ) by Monday.

It would have been more appropriate to say the world's financial *symbol* has been erased, we will remain strong as an economy. The 1-2-3 knockout would have been devastating had it succeeded, knocking out the White House would have pretty demoralizing on top of the World Trade. I'm glad those heroic passengers took action.

Yup Terry, spot on....devestating doesn't even begin to describe what could have happened if they went 3 for 3 By the way, thanks so much for starting up this topic. It has been a much appreciated source of information, fellowship and goodwill since the horrors of Tuesday morning.

Hi all Marcia, a question regarding a couple well known pieces of classical music? First of, does the military drum beat of Mars: Bringer of War mean anything significant at the moment?? Second "I vow to thee my country" is the chorus associated with Jupiter: Bringer of jollity. Patriotism is presumably alive and kicking at the moment in the United States and soldiers, sailors and airmen are thinking, " I vow to thee my country"?? Yes?? Finally, I listened to Sprach Zarathustra on Friday night, and wondered if the ominous opening bars mean anything with regards to the few terrifying seconds before the wayward jets that were aimed at the WTC, struck. Do you wonder?? Rob

Gerard Van der Leun (boswell) Sat Sep 15 '01 (23:18) 107 lines Patrick writess: > Boswell, from the bottom of my heart, please, log off and go and do something positive. Go and hug your daughter. Go and enroll in an anti- terrorism class. Go and make a speech on the corner. Go and pray.< And I thank you for that advice. Actually, today, I did log off in the morning. Then I did something positive by attending the funeral of Father Michael Judge, the Chaplin of the New York Fire Department (I have made a pact with myself to attend as many of the 300 funerals of the NYFD members as I physically can). Father Judge, who had decades of service in the NYFD, was as you may know, killed in the collapse of the towers as he was giving the last rites to citizens killed in the attack as other firemen were going UP THE STAIRS. If anyone here thinks that I have terrible convictions about this and is shocked or dismayed at my hate and rage, they might spend some time in front of one of the many churches of New York in the coming weeks and look into the eyes of the police and firemen and everyday workers from Queens, the Bronx, Brooklyn or the other bouroughs and tell me then how much mercy they can see there. These are the men who are dealing with this now, and by and large these will be the type of men who will be fighting this war abroad and here on our land -- and there *will* be more of this here in our land -- in this city and in your cities -- and you or someone you know will be maimed or die from it. So start to understand what is happening now and what is going to happen when the truck with the explosives in it drives onto the Golden Gate Bridge and the driver of that truck tells the other truck at the foot of Mission that he's all set to light it up. Then you will be standing in front of a church (if you are lucky, as I was), and you will find yourself weeping as I did (and you will not be alone in this), and then you will understand what you do not understand now. And for this I weep for you. So the pipes played and this great and good man was carried away. And then, yes, I did go into the church and although I am not a religious man, I did pray. Then I walked to 14th street where my daughter works and I saw her and I did hug her. I shopped for some vegetables at the Green Market and walked into the crazy quilt memorials and peace and chanting maze that Union Square has become .. a kind of bizarre Princess Di Death Monument, overwhelmed in it's peace and love adornments with page after page and image after image of what we are now politely calling "the missing" -- as in 'most of these real people from many nations are now atomized. Then I came home to care for my dear and sick friend. Then, as she slept, I logged on here and saw what one always sees -- the sleepers and the dreamers and the few trying to make sense of things, and those who say "if only we had done this,if only we had done that"... Those who still cannot grasp that everything is, in the words of the poet, "changed utterly. A terrible beauty is born." But none of this or anything else I may place here is really for anyone other than myself. This is my journal put out in the raw as I think it. I really don't have any other purpose than that. People can make of it it what they will. So, Patrick, that's what my day was like. Strangely it filled most of your requirements without even knowing what they would be. I even made a speech of sorts on the street. When the hearse bearing the body of Father Judge was passing down the street behind the flag and through two lines of pipers playing, I noticed that a goodly number of people lining the streets were just watching or, even more odious, taking photographs. I've never spoken out on the streets since Berkeley in the 60s, but quite to my surprise I found myself saying, I think, "Citizens. A great man is passing. We do not take pictures. We salute him." And placing my right hand over my heart in a gesture I haven't used in well over 40 years, I did so. Some others did as well. Strange that we have forgotten how do do this, isn't it? Perhaps we should start to remember this and some other things as well.

The American Red Cross in New York is calling for help from the IT community. "The New York American Red Cross is in dire need of technology equipment and services," Joe Leo, assistant director of the American Red Cross in New York, told NewsBytes. "The field workers and rescue sites have little, if any, means of communication, and the central office is processing way too much on completely paper systems. Any help in acquiring these resources would be greatly appreciated," he said. Leo highlighted an immediate need for Citrix server engineers and Microsoft- certified consultants to help with setting up systems that will aid the rescue process. Laptops, wireless networking cards, printers, CD burners and other equipment are also required. "Essentially, anything you can give us, we can use," Leo said. Other IT requirements include the need to develop a single system for tracking missing people. A database is in the process of being complied containing pictures, dental records and descriptions of the missing. ... Joe Leo at the American Red Cross can be phoned at (212) 875-2409 or e- mailed at jleo@arcgny.org. Donations of equipment can be sent to his office: 150 Amsterdam Avenue, New York, NY 10023. Mr Leo asked that only those who want to volunteer contact him directly.

you're correct, Karen, Kuwait is not Afghanistan, of that I am well aware. I am also aware that not all Muslim sects observe the same ideals or practices. My intention was not to make a broad statement about the treatment of Islamic women and I'm sorry if some of you read it that way. Generalizations are being made, stereotypes being set or reaffirmed. My point was that I personally witnessed a part of Islam that I was not aware of before my visit to Kuwait. Fine, Saudi, Afghanistan, Turkey, etc., have harsher views, that point is well known and well taken. My point was that an idea I had about this religion was changed.

marcia, thank you for that website about predicition hoaxes!

I second that thanks to Marcia!

From an account of Congressional testimony given in 1998:Since taking power, the Taliban militia group, which now controls much of Afghanistan, has placed Afghan women under virtual house arrest. The Taliban has decreed that women and girls can no longer attend school; women are banned from employment; women are not allowed to leave their homes unless accompanied by a husband, father, brother, or son; women who do leave their homes have to be covered from head to toe in a "burqa," with only a mesh opening to see and breath through; the windows of homes with women occupants are required to be painted opaque so the women inside cannot be seen; women are prohibited from being treated by male doctors; and women are banned from wearing white socks and shoes that make noise as they walk. "Women are being beaten, shot at, and even killed for violating these draconian decrees -- for merely trying to go to work, leaving their homes alone, or violating the Taliban's extreme dress orders," stated Leno. Leno also shared a report from journalist Jan Goodwin that girls at the state orphanage in Kabul have not been allowed to leave the building to go outside since September of 1996 -- although the boys go outside every day to attend school and to play. "The abuses of women and girls in Afghanistan have been justified in the name of religion and culture. However, the Taliban's decrees are foreign to the religion, the culture, and the people of Afghanistan," said Leno, who related that before the Taliban took control schools were co-educational, 70% of teachers were women, 40% of doctors were women, and Afghan women did not cover themselves with the burqa.For additional information the gender apartheid going on in Afghanistan: http://www.feminist.org/news/pr/pr030298.html http://www.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/central/07/13/afghan.women/ http://www.rawa.org/

It's incredible that you would have to post this information, Karen. I have known this for years and I thought it was common knowledge. :-( Please read this letter that was posted by someone who was on the first flight out of Logan Airport. You will understand the new security procedures. http://www.pemberley.com/bin/ramble/ramble.cgi?read=37767

I posted it for those who were unaware of the situation and did not realize what the Taliban has been doing.

Thank you for posting that Karen. I knew that the women were forced to completely cover themselves, but I had no idea it was so horrible. I hope we can help them in some way through all of what is to come.

I heard from one of the talking heads on Sunday monring tv that Afghanistan is 70% women, can someone confirm that?

MSNBC and CNN report that Pakistan has delivered an ultimatum to the Taliban: turn over Bin Laden within 72 hours or face military attack from Pakistan. From Pakistan. We've scared the hell out of them. Another article: http://www.charleston.net/pub/news/commentary/dillar0913.htm However, the '90s cutbacks in intelligence - in a time of growing complexity in the world - was a critical misstep that laid the groundwork for the failure to foresee the events of Sept. 11, 2001. These cuts have prevented our intelligence agencies from acting on complete information. Terrorist organizations, as well as those groups that would proliferate weapons of mass destruction, can only be effectively countered with a robust and well-funded human intelligence capability . . . I heard on MSNBC that El Al has been sealing off the cockpits of their planes for the last 25 years.

A whole lot of intelligence information on Afghanistan comes from the CIA Factbook, I've compiled in this web location: http://www.spring.net/afghan We may be developing a special section of the Spring to deal with the coming world conflict and we may even add a conference on this or expand more topics in the news conference. Here is a proposed topic list: 1 coping with the crisis 2 the attack 3 what can we do? 4 where were you when you heard? 5 racism 6 information on the net 7 hindsight 8 what will change? 9 world response 10 local impact where you are 11 economic impact 12 President Bush 13 travel in the post attack world 14 Osama Bin Laden 15 What will become of Civil Liberty? 16 media coverage 17 thinking like the enemy, what next? We can either add these to news, all or some of them, or we can create a new conference called? attack? terror? I think we already have a conference called InternationalConflict or something like that, it never got used much.

SJ Mercury news has some numbers on the international casualty toll at WTC... 100 Britons confirmed dead, final toll expected to be higher 250 Indians feared killed, injured and missing a dozen Mexican nationals, of over 100 citizens working at WTC 100 Russians missing 50 Bangladeshi confirmed dead, more missing 8 Australians confirmed dead, 80 others missing 100 Japanese unaccounted for other nationals believed lost include Canadians, S. Koreans, Zimbabweans, Taiwanese, Italians, colombians and Filipinos, but no numbers reported. The number that worries me are the 250 Indian nationals, given Pakistan's ties to the Taliban, not to mention the Indian/Pakistani conflicts over, say, Kashmir, or their nuclear arms race.

Here are the "official" figures: International casualties in the "attack on america" (preliminary official figures): Argentina: 2 missing Australia: 9 confirmed dead, 85 missing Bangladesh: 50 confirmed, more missing Belgium: 60 missing Brazil: 5 missing Canada: 2 confirmed, 100 missing (est) Chile: 1 missing China: 4 confirmed, 30 missing Colombia: 6 confirmed, 116 missing Denmark: 15 missing Dominican Republic: 3 missing Egypt: 1 confirmed, 3 missing El Salvador: 1 confirmed, 18 missing Finland: 41 missing France: 81 missing Germany: 4 confirmed, 700 missing Great Britain: 100 confirmed, 400 missing (est) India: 250 missing Indonesia: 1 confirmed, 1 missing Ireland: 4 confirmed Israel: 1 confirmed, 150 missing Italy: 8 missing Japan: 2 confirmed, 100 missing Lebanon: 1 confirmed, 2 missing Malaysia: 7 missing Mexico: 150-500 missing (est) Norway: 15 missing Pakistan: 3 confirmed, more missing Paraguay: 2 missing Peru: 5 missing Philippines: 7 missing Portugal: 3 confirmed, 20 missing Puerto Rico: 1 missing South Africa: 1 confirmed, 2 missing South Korea: 1 confirmed, 27 missing Spain: 9 missing Sweden: 1 missing Switzerland: 4 confirmed, 10 missing Taiwan: 9 missing Zimbabwe: 6 missing (data collected from newspapers and government websites. ) http://hem.passagen.se/eff/2001_09_01_bot-archive.htm That's nearly 3,000 people from 40 nations confirmed dead or unaccounted for.

An invaluable resource: http://www.sabawoon.com/afghanpedia/Afghanistan.shtm

And here's a list of many web sites about Afghanistan: http://www.abyznewslinks.com/afgha.htm

Open letter from Saddam Hussein to the American peoples and the western peoples and their governments. http://www.uruklink.net/iraqnews/enews8.htm

As this excerpt from a New Yorker article from a while back shows, we have to be careful in how we conduct air strikes against terrorist camps in Afghanistan and other places. These camps are undoubtedly dispersing physically and forming virtually in cyberspace as we speak. "http://www.newyorker.com/PRINTABLE/?FROM_THE_ARCHIVE/010917fr_archive07 The American war against bin Laden has affected United States policy throughout much of the Islamic world, particularly in South Asia and the Middle East. Memorably, on August 20, 1998, the Pakistani Army's chief of staff, General Jehangir Karamat, was playing host in Islamabad to his American counterpart, General Joseph Ralston, the vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Around ten o'clock in the evening, as the two men were having dinner, Ralston looked up from his chicken tikka, checked his watch, and informed his host that in ten minutes some sixty Tomahawk cruise missiles would be entering Pakistan's airspace. Their destination, he said, was Afghanistan, where bin Laden was believed to be operating four training camps. General Karamat was stunned, and appalled. "It was a 'This is happening as we speak' kind of conversation," an American intelligence official told me. "Ralston was there, on the ground, to make absolutely certain that when the missiles flew across Pakistan's radar screen they would not be misconstrued as coming from India and, as a consequence, be shot down." The intelligence official paused for a moment, and then said, "This is one hell of a way to treat our friends." By the following day, General Karamat's anger�and that of the government he served�had turned to rage. A number of the Tomahawks either had been poorly targeted or had not fallen where they were aimed. Two of the four training camps that were hit and destroyed, in the Zhawar Kili area of Afghanistan's Paktia province, were facilities of Pakistan's own intelligence agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence, or I.S.I. According to a highly placed official, five I.S.I. officers and some twenty trainees were killed. The government of Pakistan was not only furious but embarrassed, because it had not been taken into Washington's confidence. Why had there been only ten minutes' notice? And why had General Karamat been notified, instead of the Prime Minister? Pakistan wasn't our only affronted ally. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, and the Palestinian Authority�indeed, much of the Islamic world�expressed dismay. The United States had reason to be embarrassed as well. For, despite President Clinton's claim, in a televised address a few hours after the missile strikes, that a "gathering of key terrorist leaders" had been expected to take place at one of the target sites, bin Laden and his top lieutenants were more than a hundred miles away when the missiles struck. The meeting that Clinton referred to had occurred a month earlier, in Jalalabad.

I have just returned home (to the UK) from a short trip abroad during which I had no access to the Internet, therefore wish to take this opportunity to register my deepest sympathy and untold horror and revulsion at the recent events in America.

I thought this map might be valuable to those of you who are having trouble figuring out the geography of all of this "flyover" "staging area" stuff. I find the tiny shared border with China to be rather interesting. I wasn't aware of that. http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/sw_asia_pol00.jpg The story JoAnn refers to says that Cheney and others in the Pentagon weren't notified of the hijacking until 35 minutes after the air traffic controllers had contacted the military, and well after U.S. jet fighters were in the air. Unforuntately, the fighters were dispatched from a base 130 miles away, rather than Andrews, 15 miles away Subject: [archivists] Attack Archive: Please suggest sites Date: Sunday, September 16, 2001 9:48 AM From: Brewster Kahle To: Cc: Please help build a Web Archive of the Sept 11 Attack ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Internet Archive in collaboration with Alexa Internet, and SUNY, Library of Congress and UWashington is archiving pages and sites relating to the terrorist attacks in the NY and DC. Where we are archiving sites and pages all the time, we are concentrating the crawlers to make sure there is a solid historical record of this time. If you would like to help, we can build a better archive. Here is how you can help: Suggest sites and pages to archive: * This can be done by sending URL's to attackarchive@alexa.com (this is a list of the crawl engineers at Alexa and the researchers at SUNY and UW) * Surf with the free Alexa Toolbar on. Every night new sites and pages are discovered by processing the day's usage logs from the Alexa Toolbar. These are sanitized to eliminate cgi and other URL's that might contain personal information and then those sites are crawled for the archive. Help build a page in mid-October that will help guide people through relevant materials. This could be similar to the Election 2000 webpage (http://archive.alexa.com), or something else completely. We would like to make this public at the end of October or early November. Datamine the web archive to find past pages and sites that might be relevant. This takes programming skill and will be more difficult for Alexa to support, but if you are interested, please write a proposal in the web section of the www.archive.org site. Thank you. Please repost, but don't spam. -brewster Director, Internet A "In 2000, catastrophes claimed more than 17,400 lives and caused overall financial losses - not counting indirect economic damage - of almost USD 50 billion. According to Swiss Re's definitive statistics, the burden on the insurance industry was comparatively low at USD 10.6 billion." Note that this is world-wide. For more details, go to http://www.swissre.com/, then go to research&Publications, and click on the pull-down item "sigma insurance research". On that page, the item Catastrophe losses in 2000 (under "latest sigma") will bring you to the data. How does it compare to the damage from the last big earthquake in Japan. For Kobe: "Current estimates of the repair costs in this earthquake have been reported in the range of U.S.$95 billion to U.S.$147 billion" Source: http://www.eqe.com/publications/kobe/economic.htm Dateline's report on the phone call from Jeremy Glick to his wife from Flight 93 was extraordinarily well-done. The call lasted for 20 minutes, and followed Mr. Glick's revelation of what was actually happening, and what he had to do. He used his butter knife from breakfast as a weapon. Here's the story: http://www.msnbc.com/news/629077.asp

May we please keep to topic here and not to views of Islam. That is covered in Cultures in a topic all its own. I think it belongs there and not here where we discuss our national tragedy and honor those who have risked their lives in order to save others. Please! Let us not disintegrate into other divergences.

this was forwarded to me: Following is an article from the Miami Herald. R/Scott Published Wednesday, September 12, 2001 The Miami Herald Leonard Pitts We'll go forward from this moment. It's my job to have something to say. They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering. You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard. What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn? Whatever it was, please know that you failed. Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause. Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve. Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together. Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God. Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals. IN PAIN. Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and probably, the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before. But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice. I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future. In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined. THE STEEL IN US. You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold. As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish. So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started. But you're about to learn.

(sorry for the length) does anyone know the amount of rubble pulled out so far? (last i heard was 20,000 tons, just 2% of the estimated total)

Terry, I think it might be appropriate to open another topic about all of this... perhaps "post 9-11-01" or something like that...I'm not sure what to call it; "new world" or something like that sounds too trivial. But I think that there are so many issues that will stem from last tuesday's events, that they should all be housed under one topic. I am using the right phrase here, right? topic would be the larger theme, and then boards are under topics, correct?

thank you marcia!

thanks for posting that, Wolf. That is a great article!

Great article, indeed. I am looking for the Wall Street Journal's Friday editorial. It came highly recommended to me. I heard 22,000 tons of out of something like 460,000 tons!!!

Here is the lastes results of an AOL survey. Should the World Trade Center towers be rebuilt? Yes 609742 59% No 224927 22% It's too soon to decide 187317 18% Total votes: 1021986 And here is an article that expresses my thoughts: "Make it green " September 14, 2001 BY ROGER EBERT If there is to be a memorial, let it not be of stone and steel. Fly no flag above it, for it is not the possession of a nation but a sorrow shared with the world. Let it be a green field, with trees and flowers. Let there be paths that wind through the shade. Put out park benches where old people can sun in the summertime, and a pond where children can skate in the winter. Beneath this field will lie entombed forever some of the victims of September 11. It is not where they thought to end their lives. Like the sailors of the battleship Arizona, they rest where they fell. Let this field stretch from one end of the destruction to the other. Let this open space among the towers mark the emptiness in our hearts. But do not make it a sad place. Give it no name. Let people think of it as the green field. Every living thing that is planted there will show faith in the future. Let students take a corner of the field and plant a crop there. Perhaps corn, our native grain. Let the harvest be shared all over the world, with friends and enemies, because that is the teaching of our religions, and we must show that we practice them. Let the harvest show that life prevails over death, and let the gifts show that we love our neighbors. Do not build again on this place. No building can stand there. No building, no statue, no column, no arch, no symbol, no name, no date, no statement. Just the comfort of the earth we share, to remind us that we share it. Copyright � Chicago Sun-Times Inc.

I've heard that the Wakhan Corridor is pretty much deep in the Hindu Kush mountains, and isn't of much tactical value unless you're a terrorist looking for a hideout.

Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:38:28 -0700 From: Lena M. Diethelm lendie@rawbw.com Subject: Fwd: Real Justice Rabbi Michael Lerner, Editor TIKKUN Magazine | 09.12.2001 There is never any justification for acts of terror against innocent civilians-it is the quintessential act of dehumanization and not recognizing the sanctity of others, and a visible symbol of a world increasingly irrational and out of control. It's understandable why many of us, after grieving and consoling the mourners, will feel anger-and while some demagogues in Congress have already sought to manipulate that feeling into a growing militarism (more spies, legalize assassinations of foreign leaders, increase the defense budget at the expense of domestic programs), the more "responsible" leaders are seeking to narrow America's response to targeted attacks on countries that allegedly harbor the terrorists. But though the perpetrators deserve to be punished, in some ways this narrow focus allows us to avoid dealing with the underlying issues. When violence becomes so prevalent throughout the planet, it's too easy to simply talk of "deranged minds." We need to ask ourselves, "What is it in the way that we are living, organizing our societies, and treating each other that makes violence seem plausible to so many people?" We in the spiritual world will see this as a growing global incapacity to recognize the spirit of God in each other-what we call the sanctity of each human being. But even if you reject religious language, you can see that the willingness of people to hurt each other to advance their own interests has become a global problem, and it's only the dramatic level of this particular attack which distinguishes it from the violence and insensitivity to each other that is part of our daily lives. We may tell ourselves that the current violence has "nothing to do" with the way that we've learned to close our ears when told that one out of every three people on this planet does not have enough food, and that one billion are literally starving. We may reassure ourselves that the hoarding of the world's resources by the richest society in world history, and our frantic attempts to accelerate globalization with its attendant inequalities of wealth, has nothing to do with the resentment that others feel toward us. We may tell ourselves that the suffering of refugees and the oppressed have nothing to do with us-that that's a different story that is going on somewhere else. But we live in one world, increasingly interconnected with everyone, and the forces that lead people to feel outrage, anger, and desperation eventually impact on our own daily lives. The same inability to feel the pain of others is the pathology that shapes the minds of these terrorists. Raise children in circumstances where no one is there to take care of them, or where they must live by begging or selling their bodies in prostitution, put them in refugee camps and tell them that that they have "no right of return" to their homes, treat them as though they are less valuable and deserving of respect because they are part of some despised national or ethnic group, surround them with a media that extols the rich and makes everyone who is not economically successful and physically trim and conventionally "beautiful" feel bad about themselves, offer them jobs whose sole goal is to enrich the "bottom line" of someone else, and teach them that "looking out for number one" is the only thing anyone "really" cares about and that anyone who believes in love and social justice are merely naive idealists who are destined to always remain powerless, and you will produce a world-wide population of people feeling depressed, angry, unable to care about others, and in various ways dysfunctional. Luckily most people don't act out in violent ways-they tend to act out more against themselves, drowning themselves in alcohol or drugs or personal despair. Others turn toward fundamentalist religions or ultra-nationalist extremism. Still others find themselves acting out against people that they love, acting angry or hurtful toward children or relationship partners. Most Americans will feel puzzled by any reference to this "larger picture." It seems baffling to imagine that somehow we are part of a world system which is slowly destroying the life support system of the planet, and quickly transferring the wealth of the world into our own pockets. We don't feel personally responsible when an American corporation runs a sweat shop in the Phillipines or crushes efforts of workers to organize in Singapore. We don't see ourselves implicated when the U.S. refuses to consider the plight of Palestinian refugees or uses the excuse of fighting drugs to support repression in Colombia or other parts of Central America. We don't even see the symbolism when terrorists attack America's military center and our trade center-we talk of them as buildings, though others see them as centers of the forces that are causing the world so much pain. We have narrowed our own attention to "getting through" or "doing well" in our own personal lives, and who has time to focus on all the rest of this? Most of us are leading perfectly reasonable lives within the options that we have available to us-so why should others be angry at us, much less strike out against us? And the truth is, our anger is also understandable: the striking out by others in acts of terror against us is just as irrational as the world-system that it seeks to confront. Yet our acts of counter-terror will also be counter-productive. We should have learned from the current phase of the Israel-Palestinian struggle, responding to terror with more violence, rather than asking ourselves what we could do to change the conditions that generated it in the first place, will only ensure more violence against us in the future. This is a world out of touch with itself, filled with people who have forgotten how to recognize and respond to the sacred in each other because we are so used to looking at others from the standpoint of what they can do for us, how we can use them toward our own ends. The alternatives are stark: either start caring about the fate of everyone on this planet or be prepared for a slippery slope toward violence that will eventually dominate our daily lives. We should pray for the victims and the families of those who have been hurt or murdered in these crazy acts. We should also pray that America does not return to "business as usual," but rather turns to a period of reflection, coming back into touch with our common humanity, asking ourselves how our institutions can best embody our highest values. We may need a global day of atonement and repentance dedicated to finding a way to turn the direction of our society at every level, a return to the notion that every human life is sacred, that "the bottom line" should be the creation of a world of love and caring, and that the best way to prevent these kinds of acts is not to turn ourselves into a police state, but turn ourselves into a society in which social justice, love, and compassion are so prevalent that violence becomes only a distant memory.

More on the shared border. The only reason it's Afghanistan is that there was obviously a concerted effort to prevent a common border between India and Russia back in the 1800s. This is the very most farthest extension of ecotourism: http://www.concordiaexpeditions.com/tartary_trip.html This trek takes us to Northern Chitral and runs on the edge of the famous Wakhan Corridor. The corridor was deliberately made as a buffer zone to curtail the advancing Russian influence into British India during the 18th century. Here many spies were sent on both sides who mingled with the local populace as if they were natives. This is the place of the Great Game which was played between the Russian 'Bear,' the English 'Lion,' and the Chinese 'Dragon.' The three empires jockeyed for land, position and influence for the strategic heart of Central Asia.

Hey ya'll. I was just talking to my sister in Seattle, a litle while ago. I was telling her about me and my buddy going shopping for supplies for the rescue workers in NY ( saline solution, bottled water, work boots, mens underwear etc etc ) She has heard about none of this, except for the Red Cross blood drive. Do any of you know of any websites that I can tell her about, that give out info on what supplies are still needed ? I tried the Red Cross website, but didn't get much info. Here in Atlanta, massive semi rigs are parked in many of our supermarkets. People are coming and filling them up with supplies, that will be then driven to NY when they are full. I guess not much of this is being done on the West Coast, coz it is a weeks drive from NY.

Hi all Msg 352 - Terry: Here are the "official figures Rob: Some bad news. New Zealand can be added to the list as 1 New Zealander is confirmed dead and at least a dozen are missing. *weeps* Initially more than 200 New Zealanders were in the area, but I do not know how many have been accounted for - except that there is definitely at least one body. Rob

I have been looking for an article that expresses the European point of view and this is it. It is secular as can be expected. For the arrogance of power, America now pays a terrible price By JONATHAN POWER September 12, 2001 LONDON - The American nation appears not only immensely distressed and angry about the bombings but surprised too. It cannot understand why anyone should be moved by such hatred against it and, inured from the rest of us by the isolationism of most of its political representatives and its media, it has little idea of the currents swirling against it. An event of this magnitude was not only unimagined, it was unimaginable. Yet long before George Bush became president with his forceful in-your-face, take-it-or-leave-it attitude to the world outside on issues as diverse as global warming and anti-missile defences, America has been turning in on itself, to the point of self-destructiveness. William Pfaff, the astute American commentator, wrote recently that "America is a dangerous nation while remaining a righteous one" and America's pre-eminent foreign policy observer, George Kennan, ambassador to the Soviet Union during Stalin's time, wrote quite a few years ago, "I do not think that the United States civilization of these last 40-50 years is a successful civilization. I think this country is destined to succumb to failures which cannot be other than tragic and enormous in their scope." And later added that for Americans "to see ourselves as the centre of political enlightenment and teachers to a great part of the rest of the world [is] unthought-through, vainglorious and undesirable." It would be misunderstanding human nature to believe that most Americans want to hear such thoughts played back to them on their day of grief, victims of an evil deed that compares with the worst of the blood-stained twentieth century. Yet they have to know that action produces reaction and not for nothing is anti-American resentment on the increase all over the world, not least in Europe where there is some astonishment at the way the new American administration has ploughed ahead with its self-interested agenda as if no one else has a legitimate opinion or could perhaps view the same situation in a different light. Foreign observers do not miss the reports that come out of Pentagon think tanks of America's need to use this special moment after the defeat of European communism and the break up of the Soviet Union to make sure that America is militarily superior the world over, and that no one, not even its closest allies, should be in a position to tell it what to do. The U.S. began the new millennium as the most heavily militarised nation on earth. It is the U.S., which poses the military threat to others. At the outbreak of the Second World War the U.S. army was only 174,000 men. Today it has 1.4 million in its "standing army" and a ready reserve and National Guard numbering 2.5 million. Despite the end of the Cold War, under President Bill Clinton the U.S. made only a paltry effort to wind down the nuclear arsenals of the superpowers, and instead provocatively insisted on expanding Nato close to Russia's borders. The Bush administration with its declared ambition to abandon the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, solemnly signed by Richard Nixon and Leonid Brezhnev, seems unconcerned that this will set in motion events that will unwind hard won international norms on ending nuclear testing and on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, even hinting that it will understand if China has to increase its nuclear forces or test new nuclear weapons. I have talked to a range of ordinary Europeans in the last 24 hours and they all say, in the face of the earnest shoulder-to-shoulder rhetoric of their leaders, that America has got itself into this hole by its own disregard for what others think. The first law of holes, of course, is to stop digging - which, of course, is what Washington should firmly have told Israel six presidents ago when it started its foolish and counterproductive policy of building settlements on what everyone knew was Palestinian land. Amazingly, the policy continues with apparent understanding from the Bush administration. While Arab governments ring their hands, and young Palestinians fight one of the best trained armies in the world with stones, there are the inevitable few attached to the Palestinian cause who are moved towards serious violence - the suicide bombers and, we don't know yet, although it is the most likely explanation, the destroyers of the World Trade Centre. In every political movement - whether it be the Palestinians or the globalisation protestors in Genoa there are fringe elements that advocate violence. This does not mean the mainstream of that movement is wrong. It might or might not be. But, right or wrong, there will always be powerful elements of truth contained within it, or the passions and purpose would never be ignited. To meet it eye for eye and tooth for tooth, as Gandhi once said, is to make everybody blind. America right now is a repository of exhausted ideas, like dead stars. The arrogance of power has produced its inevitable reaction. America is threatened not by nuclear tipped missiles from unknown rogue nations, but by small groups of angry men who, although prisoners of their zealotry, know well enough that much of the world whilst not agreeing with them understands their frustration. To deal with this effectively requires a new way of looking at the world. George Kennan, the late Senator William Fulbright, Willam Pfaff and others have been arguing what this might be for a long time. On this sad and tragic day one wishes their pens could become mightier than America's sword. *** I have e-mail Mr. Power asking him why he has neglected to write about Jihad. The fact that he ignores it just goes to stress the secular/atheistic point of view of modern "Socialist" Europe.

The UK Guardian is reporting that bin Laden has abandoned his main base near Kandahar and has moved to an undisclosed place in the mountains. His four wives and numerous children are with him. What if the Pakistanis persuade the Taliban regime to hand him over? Will be martyrized? The UK Guardian coverage on this is at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,553156,00.html

From: Patrice Riemens Reply-To: Patrice Riemens To: A New Era for Humanity by Yann Moix Liberation (Paris), September 14, 2001 original in French at http://www.liberation.com/ny2001/actu/20010914venze.html Bingo, folks! The World will never go at war again, and yet it will be at war always, period. War and non-war, there shall be no difference any more. From the 11th of September 2001, all will be war, even peace. Peace shall no longer be the opposite of war, but its context, its natural environment, its ecosystem, its scene, its background, its screen-saver. War and peace shall no longer be each others contraries (that was in the good old manichean East vs West times), but they shall be imbricated the one in the other, like the two connected faces of the same reality. Peace shall be a kind of specific sub-case of war. War shall henceforth be everywhere and nowhere. War shall be waged in the dustbins of the Paris railtermini, war shall be waged above our heads in the air of the metropolises. War shall be permanent. War shall be open for business 24/24, 7/7 , just like CNN. There shall be intermissions, but no reprieve. It shall be a war blind, yet precise, fuzzy, yet targeted. Because never before has the distortion been so stark between fuziness of the causes and the acuurateness of the strikes . The First HyperWorldWar has started. It is a war where all pretenses will fly, and where acts will be used as statements of purpose afterwards. Let's call this a hyperwar: a world where the ordinary, natural context of societies is no longer peace, but war. A hyperwar is not a classic world war with opposite fighting sides. It is a 'non-Euclydian', non-catalogised war, without rules and principles others than its own logic. Hyperwar cannot be localised in space. Nor in time. It is a kind of magnum opus of terrorism,its _best of_ or rather its _worst of_: plane hijacks, crashes, bombs, kamikaze operations. In fact it was the 20th century as a whole that was fast-forwarded in just a couple of minutes on the 11th of September, 2001. And that will be the birth certificate of the 21st Century, like (the 31st of July) 1914 was it for the 20th. But it are no longer states which are waging war, but wars that are making states. But then, unheard of sort of states: non-nation-states, states without teritorry, without citizens or borders, without (elected) governements, nay, these are virtual states, scattered war-states, fuzzy, networked octopus-states, community-states whose only borders are ideological. These states, just like virusses, evolve, adjust, mutate, invent and reinvent themselves everyday. Sometimes, their size is reduced to that of a lone individual who is an ideology, an army, a clear and present danger all unto himself. And a walking bomb. After the era of the statesmen comes the era of the state-men. The political state has become undistinguishable from the biological state. Over these past days, we have been bombarded with the metaphor of Pearl Harbour: nothing could be further from the truth. Pearl Harbour was an episode within a war. The 11th of september was the definition of an other type of war, the starting point for a new era in human history. The human element is now being affected all over the planet, since hyperwars feeds itself on the psychoses it creates by the permanent menace it exerts on all. Psychosis has become the continuation of war by other means. It gnaws at the individual, it eats up her/his mind, it shatters her/his rational structure. It is a war on the 'may be/ may be not' mode, whereby the horror is mainly a potential one. And thus, it is a war that may have a beginning, but no end. Hyperwar is built for the long run. It thrives in totality, that of the universe and of eternity. (Halelujah! - tr -) (Q&D translation by yours truly) Reposted without permission whatsoever # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net

A good Robert Scheer op-ed on the "unleash the CIA" blather can be found in today's LA Times at: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-091701scheer.column an editorial today in the LA Times raises another question about unsavory allies: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-000074763sep17.story?coll=la%2Dnews%2Dcomment%2Deditorials

From: William Meyers To: , , , , Date: 9/15/01 3:12PM Subject: after the hit Dear Everyone, Here's an important document issued yesterday that we should all keep in mind: Human Rights Watch Response to Attacks on the U.S. Civilian Life Must Be Respected (New York, September 12, 2001) -- We profoundly condemn yesterday's cruel attacks in the United States and express our condolences to the victims and their loved ones. This was an assault not merely on one nation or one people, but on principles of respect for civilian life cherished by all people. We urge all governments to unite to investigate this crime, to prevent its recurrence, and to bring to justice those who are responsible. Last night, President Bush said that the United States "will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbored them." Yet distinctions must be made: between the guilty and the innocent; between the perpetrators and the civilians who may surround them; between those who commit atrocities and those who may simply share their religious beliefs, ethnicity or national origin. People committed to justice and law and human rights must never descend to the level of the perpetrators of such acts. That is the most important distinction of all. There are people and governments in the world who believe that in the struggle against terrorism, ends always justify means. But that is also the logic of terrorism. Whatever the response to this outrage, it must not validate that logic. Rather, it must uphold the principles that came under attack yesterday, respecting innocent life and international law. That is the way to deny the perpetrators of this crime their ultimate victory. And here's the letter from HHDL to GWB that got released to the public yesterday: 1. The Dalai Lama's letter to the President of the United States of America --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Excellency, I am deeply shocked by the terrorist attacks that took place involving four apparently hijacked aircrafts and the immense devastation these caused. It is a terrible tragedy that so many innocent lives have been lost and it seems unbelievable that anyone would choose to target the World Trade Center in New York City and the Pentagon in Washington D.C. We are deeply saddened. On behalf of the Tibetan people I would like to convey our deepest condolence and solidarity with the American people during this painful time. Our prayers go out to the many who have lost their lives, those who have been injured and the many more who have been traumatized by this senseless act of violence. I am attending a special prayer for the United States and it's people at our main temple today. I am confident that the United States as a great and powerful nation will be able to overcome this present tragedy. The American people have shown their resilience, courage and determination when faced with such difficult and sad situation. It may seem presumptuous on my part, but I personally believe we need to think seriously whether a violent action is the right thing to do and in the greater interest of the nation and people in the long run. I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence. But how do we deal with hatred and anger, which are often the root causes of such senseless violence? This is a very difficult question, especially when it concerns a nation and we have certain fixed conceptions of how to deal with such attacks. I am sure that you will make the right decision. With my prayers and good wishes The Dalai Lama September 12, 2001 Dharamsala, India And, for contrast, here's a little excerpt from today's Times about what life is like here today: The three major metropolitan airports in the New York region reopened in the late morning, but confusion reigned as schedules were strewn with cancellations, bags were searched and passengers were questioned aggressively. And in the evening, the three airports were closed because of the arrests at Kennedy and La Guardia. As for the rest of New York, it was to be a day of return to relatively normal life, with schools, theaters and many businesses reopening, and commuters traveling on bridges and through tunnels that had been closed. But instead of a nearly normal day, countless New Yorkers endured yet another psychological roller coaster. First came disheartening news. After days of vague but ominous estimates, Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani announced in the late morning that 4,763 people were believed missing in the trade center rubble, bringing the possible death toll in the coordinated attacks to nearly 5,000 � more than double the 2,390 Americans lost at Pearl Harbor. The mayor said that only 184 bodies or body parts had been found, and that only 35 of them had been identified. Among the missing were 300 firefighters and 60 police officers. Three hours later, even as hope seemed to fade for those buried under the collapsed trade center, there were reports that the desperate round-the-clock search for survivors had yielded three, or five, or seven firefighters, alive after 50 hours trapped under the mountains of rubble. Miraculously, some were said to have walked away, or even to have picked up tools to join their rescuers. The Associated Press, WCBS-TV and CNN put out the news, and calls from relatives of the missing flooded a Fire Department hot line. But by late afternoon, the accounts of rescues were dismissed by officials as rumors that apparently started after several rescuers fell into a hole in the rubble and, after 15 minutes, were pulled out. Since the site is dangerous and off-limits to the news media, the accounts apparently originated with rescue workers who misunderstood what they saw, and were passed on to reporters. Meanwhile, the craziness was spreading around town. Some 90 bomb threats in the late morning and early afternoon led to evacuations at Grand Central Terminal and the MetLife Building above it, the Port Authority Bus Terminal, La Guardia Airport, Macy's department store, the Cond� Nast Building in Times Square, CNN's Midtown bureau and other buildings. Tens of thousands were involved, and on crowded Midtown streets where the evacuees milled about, spikes of panic were observed � weeping, anger, even some fights � that seemed to reflect confusion, irritation and exasperation rather than fear, a kind of psychic reaction to the long days of high tension. Michael Pecoriello, 56, who works for a publishing company and was evacuated from 5 Penn Plaza, found himself in a crowd mumbling frustrations. "Some peoplecan't deal with this," he said. "It's scary." On a higher note, I've been able to plug in with the Tibetans -- attended their candlelight vigil last night in Union Square...where the amount of candles and flowers and posted photos of "the missing" is emotionally overwhelming. A lot of Tibetan monks were there last night, chanting for the dead -- a very high meditation vibration that generated some real peace...and the Representative of HH announced and talked about the things below: 3. Press Release from the Office of Tibet, NYC re: attack on the US ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HIS HOLINESS THE DALAI LAMA SENDS HIS CONDOLENCES TO PRESIDENT BUSH AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contacts: Ngawang Phelgyal September 12, 2001 Tenzin Kalsang Choephel (212) 213-5010 NEW YORK - On September 12, 2001, His Holiness the Dalai Lama sent a letter expressing his shock and sadness to President George Bush and the American people after hearing of the recent events in New York City and Washington, D.C. He states, "It is a terrible tragedy that so many innocent lives have been lost . . . We are deeply saddened. On behalf of the Tibetan people I would like to convey our deepest condolence and solidarity with the American people during this painful time. Our prayers go out to the many who have lost lives, those who have been injured and the many more who have been traumatized by this senseless act of violence." His Holiness concludes His letter to the President with a poignant question: "It may seem presumptuous on my part, but I personally believe we need to think seriously whether a violent action is the right thing to do and in the greater interest of the nation and people in the long run. I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence. But how do we deal with hatred and anger, which are often the root causes of such senseless violence?" The Prime Minister of the Tibetan Government in Exile also sent condolence letters to the President and the New York City Mayor, Rudolph Giuliani. Both Tibetan leaders conveyed their confidence that the U.S. as a great nation will overcome these recent events and the American people will show their resilience, courage and determination. A Special Prayer Session was held yesterday at the main temple in Dharamsala, India for all the victims of the terrorist attack. His Holiness the Dalai Lama presided over the prayer session. All offices of the Tibetan Government in Exile were closed for half the day in observation. The Office of Tibet New York is the official representative office of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan Government in Exile to the Americas. Representative Nawang Rabgyal, still grieving over the events downtown, was able to report that no Tibetans were located near the World Trade Center or the Pentagon yesterday. Tibetans who reside in New York have been visiting area hospitals to give blood as well as coordinating food donations for the rescue workers." No Tibetan Support Groups or Dharma centers in Manhattan were affected by the attack. The Tibetan community of New York and New Jersey consists of around 2,000 Tibetans and will be holding a prayer service at 6:00pm in Union Square tomorrow, September 13, 2001. All who wish to attend are welcome. I can attest that all who attended, including myself, felt a lot more peaceful afterward. I've been reading HHDL's Ethics for the New Millennium lately to help with staying sane. Wish I could afford to buy everybody a copy -- but then I guess it wouldn't make any difference to a suicide bomber. You have to be relatively sane to be susceptible to the teachings...preaching to the converted, that's the dilemma. And I don't think there's going to be any deterring the military campaign that's about to begin -- or the ensuing war. "Rendezvous With Afghanistan" is the headline over the lead editorial in today's times. The president is due to arrive here this afternoon for a eulogy to the dead and a war rally. All we can do is hope and pray, and offer our presumptuous advice... Love, William

Also in the Independent an interesting analysis by Robert Fisk, their Beirut correspondent. He has lived the last 23 years in the Middle East, and he received the Brirish International Journalist of the Year award seven times. "Bush is walking into a trap" ... "President Bush appears to be heading for the very disaster that Osama bin Laden has laid down for him." ... "But this crime was perpetrated - it becomes ever clearer - to provoke the United States into just the blind, arrogant punch that the US military is preparing." "Mr bin Laden - every day his culpability becomes more apparent - has described to me how he wishes to overthrow the pro-American regime of the Middle East, starting with Saudi Arabia and moving on to Egypt, Jordan and the other Gulf states. In an Arab world sunk in corruption and dictatorships - most of them supported by the West - the only act that might bring Muslims to strike at their own leaders would be a brutal, indiscriminate assault by the United States." ... ""America was targeted for attack,'' Mr Bush informed us on Friday, "because we are the brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world.'' But this is not why America was attacked. If this was an Arab-Muslim apocalypse, then it is intimately associated with events in the Middle East and with America's stewardship of the area." ... "I will take a tiny risk and say that no other British newspaper - certainly no American newspaper - will today recall the fact that on 16 September 1982, Israel's Phalangist militia allies started their three-day orgy of rape and knifing and murder in the Palestinian refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila that cost 1,800 lives. It followed an Israeli invasion of Lebanon designed to drive the PLO out of the country and given the green light by the then US Secretary of State, Alexander Haig which cost the lives of 17,500 Lebanese and Palestinians, almost all of them civilians. That's probably three times the death toll in the World Trade Centre. Yet I do not remember any vigils or memorial services or candle-lighting in America or the West for the innocent dead of Lebanon; I don't recall any stirring speeches about democracy or liberty. In fact, my memory is that the United States spent most of the bloody months of July and August 1982 calling for "restraint"." ... "But America's failure to act with honour in the Middle East, its promiscuous sale of missiles to those who use them against civilians, its blithe disregard for the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqi children under sanctions of which Washington is the principal supporter - all these are intimately related to the society that produced the Arabs who plunged America into an apocalypse of fire last week." ... "Every effort will be made in the coming days to switch off the "why'' question and concentrate on the who, what and how. CNN and most of the world's media have already obeyed this essential new war rule." ... "I repeat: what happened in New York was a crime against humanity. And that means policemen, arrests, justice, a whole new international court at The Hague if necessary. Not cruise missiles and "precision'' bombs and Muslim lives lost in revenge for Western lives. But the trap has been sprung. Mr Bush - perhaps we, too - are now walking into it."

Thanks Moon. I too wondered when that kind of sentiment was going to hit the press.They never have anything good to say about the US except when they need help.

Dow down over 600, probably under 9000.

Slate answers the question "What does bin Laden want?" Bin Laden and his followers are alarming because they don't want anything from us. They don't want our sympathy. They want no material thing we can offer them. They don't want to participate in the community of nations. (They don't really believe in the nation-state.) They are motivated by religion, not politics. They answer to no one but their god, so they certainly won't answer to us. http://slate.msn.com/Assessment/01-09-13/Assessment.asp

I have been looking for an article that expresses the European point of view and this is it. It is secular as can be expected. Moon, before we label this "the European point of view" let's step back and ask any Europeans on this board if they agree. I did read that the BBC ran a panel discussion the other evening and the "audience members" reflected many of this article's views. However, the Beeb was flooded with more than 2,000 calls of protest from viewers who felt that there was a disproportionate amount of anti-Americanism espoused and that it did not reflect the feelings of the average person. BTW, our ambassador was on the program and was to said to have been reduced to tears. Greg Dyke, head of the BBC, later apologized to him. It is true that the foreign press tends to be very critical of America, and even in the calmest of times, resorts to cheap shots--but I am interested in finding out what the average person thinks. For which publication does Jonathan Powers write?

Mari, we are talking here of the media...print,audio and visual.The Fourth Estate.Not the ordinary guy on the street. The tone of that article is "We told you so..".Almost with glee. They have short memories of who pulls them out of binds. And , sadly,so do we .

Articles in the British press today suggest that the terrorist attack on America may have been meant not merely as a "punishment" but primarily to provoke American wrath and powerful military response which would then serve as a means of turning moderate Muslims against America and the Western world. If there is no response, they may attack again. Catch 22.

Sad when people think the US response would be carpet bombing of Afghanistan. Even that I would protest as a waste of my taxpayer money. Judicious use of our resources may already be having effect. Yesterday I heard that assets were being frozen worldwide (even Swiss accounts) of known enemies, including government ministers of the Taliban. A bit of motivation for turning bin Laden in? There must be a response as history has shown us that appeasement is not acceptable when you are dealing with fanatics. People seem to have forgotten that.

For which publication does Jonathan Powers write? He is a syndicated columnist based in London. I read it in The Miami Herald. the Beeb was flooded with more than 2,000 calls of protest from viewers who felt that there was a disproportionate amount of anti-Americanism espoused and that it did not reflect the feelings of the average person. I read this too, but the reason was that the people thought it was way to soon and therefore in very bad taste. The US Ambassador was brought to tears, FGS. They felt that the BBC should have taped and edited instead of airing it live. The unfortunate reality is that in general, there is a very strong anti-American sentiment in Europe. If there is no response, they may attack again. Catch 22. I would say, they will attack again. This is not a good situation to be in, but we're in it. I have said this before, it's the Crusades all over again. There must be a response as history has shown us that appeasement is not acceptable when you are dealing with fanatics. People seem to have forgotten that. England, Ireland, Spain and Italy have suffered greatly from terrorist attacks.

The tone of that article is "We told you so..".Almost with glee. I know, and that's very hurtful, but it's nothing new. But, if I could have one or the other, I'd rather have the support of the guy in the street. Not to mention the guy at 10 Downing. What I was trying to explore: is there one monolithic European viewpoint, and the answer of course is no. They have short memories of who pulls them out of binds. And , sadly,so do we. You can't keep throwing it up to people, or get into a pissing contest over who has paid the highest price. It's counterproductive, especially now.

And the world was a *perfect* place when America was isolationist?

I think that we (America) need to re-examine all of our foreign policies, keeping in mind what our intentions are towards that nation (as the policies have always been), but also how we may be perceived by those governments. I know that is not exactly how most people would like for us to be- reactionary instead of proactive- but I think looking at the stark contrast of opinions in just the messages the presses of the two countries are putting out, is astonishing (perhaps less so to the rest of the world than to us). I don't think that America can afford to continue in the pseudo-isolationist way that we've been for the last however many years. I personally do not agree with the current administration's take it or leave it attitude towards the world. It is quite obvious to me, at least, that we have ignored serious concerns that the rest of the world seems to see and understand. I know that not a lot of people agree with me, or would voice this opinion if they have it, but I do not think that we should be backing (or as we appear to be backing) Israel in the way we are right now. I understand the historical ties there, and all that they entail, but when we sit back and just remove ourselves entirely from the situation, what does that say? It says "it's ok for you all to kill each other; we'll just sit back and wait." That's not right. There is no justification for the loss of any life there, Israeli or Palestinian, just as there is no justification for the loss of life here in NY, or in other parts of the Middle ast, Ireland, Asia, etc. Here is a very good article from The Economist magazine from last week's web addition. I can't find the URL...I emailed it to myself... AMERICA'S PLACE IN THE WORLD The devastation wrought on September 11th will shape the debate about American foreign policy for years to come A TABOO has been broken. The attacks on New York and Washington, DC so dwarf earlier examples of terrorism in the United States that they are, in effect, the bombing of mainland America that even the Japanese and the Nazis did not achieve during the second world war. For some time to come, most attention in the United States will be focused on the most pressing questions. Who perpetrated the attack? How to strike back at the culprits? How to protect America from another such terrorist atrocity? But once these questions are addressed, an even larger question will have to be faced: what is America's proper role in the world? Indeed, in a confused fashion, the debate on that question has already begun. While the administration has been determined to present a united front, and has largely succeeded, the very complexity of the task facing it has elicited statements which seem to point in different directions. Both George Bush and his secretary of state, Colin Powell, have emphasised that America is looking to its allies for support in an effort to launch a global fight against terrorism. They have spoken of the attacks on New York and Washington as attacks on freedom-loving people everywhere, not just on the United States. And yet, at the same time, they have made it clear that America will defend itself, implying it will retaliate alone if necessary. Although the administration would clearly like to build a Gulf war-style coalition to support its next steps, America's allies are rightly nervous that they will have little influence over an aroused and angered United States. American television and newspapers have been full of commentators calling for declarations of war or military intervention on the one hand, and calm restraint on the other. Some have said that it is essential to look to America's allies for support, others that America must take decisive action soon, no matter what the concerns of its friends abroad. Some have claimed that America's terrorist opponents can be crushed, and that any governments thought to have harboured terrorists should be attacked, whether or not it can be shown that they had anything to do with the assault this week. One NEW YORK TIMES columnist absurdly insisted that Congress should make a general declaration of war, even if it cannot say which country America is actually at war with. Others have argued that dropping bombs elsewhere in the world can never make America safe from another such attack, and that preserving civil liberties at home and expanding diplomatic, as well as military, efforts abroad is the only long-term approach. A NEW WORLD OF DISORDER What is clear is that the self-confidence which prompted George Bush senior, the father of the current president, to speak boldly about a "new world order" more than a decade ago, and which spawned such optimistic paeans to American values and the triumph of liberal democracies as Francis Fukuyama's "The End of History", will now look like the relics of a distant age. America may have won the cold war, and just completed a decade of unparallelled prosperity. But it evidently now lives in a much more dangerous and complicated world than most Americans ever imagined. For many of its policymaking elite, if there is to be any single text summoning up this darker vision, it is likely to be "The Clash of Civilizations" by Samuel Huntington, an article published in 1993 (later expanded into a book) which predicted that democratic countries led by the United States would end up locked in violent conflict with Islamic extremism. Opinions about how America should conduct itself internationally will be diverse, and more contentious than ever. Nevertheless, views about how it should now pursue its foreign policy are likely to run along well-worn paths, and might usefully be categorised into three broad groups: isolationism, multilateralism, and unilateralism. Outright isolationists have not commanded broad political support in America. There is a contingent in Congress which regularly argues the isolationist case, scorning America's participation in international institutions such as the United Nations and the International Monetary Fund and maintaining, in effect, that the United States should draw in its horns. But national candidates such as Pat Buchanan, Ross Perot or Jerry Brown, who have criticised troop deployments, immigration policies, trade agreements and other policies from an isolationist standpoint, have failed. For isolationists, America has been foolish to think that it could help sort out the intractable conflicts of others And yet many Americans have little interest in the rest of the world, and do view foreign entanglements with distaste or suspicion. At various points in its history, such as the period between the two world wars, isolationism has played a powerful role in American politics. The attacks on New York and Washington seem bound to encourage some people to call for the United States to draw back from its extensive military commitments around the world, to reduce its links to multilateral institutions, and to concentrate on its own narrowly defined interests and security. For isolationists, America has been foolish to think that it could help sort out the intractable conflicts of others. Attempts at peacemaking or peacekeeping in conflicts that do not concern it directly have only stirred up the enmity which has led to horrific acts of terrorism. Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect behind the attack on America, was once an American ally against the Russians in Afghanistan. The more involved America becomes abroad, the more unpredictably and often perverse the results. If such views can be presented as reasonable, by a mainstream political figure, they could yet win more support. However, they are unlikely to prevail because true isolationism is no longer possible for the United States. Its economy is too entwined with the world's trading system, and international financial markets, for it to eschew any interest in, or influence on, the rest of the world. There are practical, and severe, limits to how isolationist America can become without gravely injuring itself. Critics will also point out that an isolationist withdrawal is probably exactly what the terrorists who planned the attacks this week are after, and that responding this way and abandoning allies, especially Israel, would be tantamount to admitting defeat. Multilateralists will argue precisely the opposite case: that America must be more engaged than ever in international institutions and acting in concert with its allies. America can only find genuine security, in their view, in a world where international law carries greater weight, democracy and stable government is more widespread, weapons proliferation is controlled through international agreement and governments co-operate much more closely in monitoring and capturing the kind of terrorist groups which perpetrated this week's outrages. According to this argument, it has been America's lack of consistency in its relations with allies and foes alike, and its sporadic attention to places such as the Middle East, that have allowed virulent anti-Americanism to fester. For multilateralists, many of the Bush administration's recent actions--marching out of the United Nations' conference on racism, indicating that it is determined to abandon the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, spurning the Kyoto Protocol--have been high-handed, and set exactly the wrong tone. It is not in America's long-term interest to appear arrogant, or narrowly self-interested, they will say. As the sole remaining superpower, America must take on the mantle of leadership, but also show itself co-operative and willing to compromise as well. But critics of multilateralism will retort that it is naive, too theoretical, and much the same as the now-derided "new world order" of the first Bush administration, when the collapse of the Soviet Union made it seem as if the world was safe for the spread of democracy. America should now know better. To some critics, multilateralists will themselves appear arrogant, as if they believe America can solve all the world's problems. Others will charge them with being "appeasers", ready to deal with almost anyone in order to achieve peace deals like that between the Israelis and Palestinians, which then fall apart. Although a superpower, these critics will say, America has something in common with all other countries: it must put its own national interests first. The third competing doctrine, unilateralism, would aim to do this. Unilateralists will argue that America must clearly define its national priorities, rather than embrace the woolly abstractions of the multilateralists, and then act to meet these goals, even if this sometimes means ignoring allies, breaking international law or breaching past agreements. America, they believe, should be wary of becoming embroiled in the quarrels and conflicts of others. It should only use military force when its interests are directly at stake. But, most of all, it should not be afraid to deploy those forces when attacked. Only America can protect itself. Eventually, the unilateralists themselves may come to seem naive. Can even America rely solely on its own defences in such an interconnected world? Unilateralism, tempered with diplomacy where possible, seems to be the approach of the Bush administration, although statements by its top officials, including Mr Bush himself, have sometimes been so contradictory that it is difficult to discern a coherent philosophy. As America struggles to find a response to this week's attacks, unilateralism will clearly hold sway. America's NATO allies have pledged their full support. Even if they have reservations about America's response--a bombing of Afghanistan for example--that is unlikely to weigh very heavily with Washington. But bombing terrorists, or those who are thought to harbour them, is unlikely to make America more secure from further attacks. In fact, it is likely to have the opposite effect. Eventually, the unilateralists themselves may come to seem naive. Can even America rely solely on its own defences in such an interconnected world? Can it define its national interests as distinct and separate from those of other democratic nations? Can it expect allies always to stand shoulder to shoulder with it in times of crisis if it ignores their advice whenever it likes? Can it confine its interventions abroad to situations where its own interests can be clearly identified and narrowly defined? The terrorist attacks in New York and Washington seem to raise all these questions. Nevertheless, in response to them, unilateralists seem bound to prevail for the time being. But they, too, will have critics to answer.

Moon, this is the article I referred to. Again, I was commenting on viewer reaction--not the BBC's excuses. BBC sorry over anti-US TV audience LONDON (Reuters) - The head of the BBC, Greg Dyke, has apologised for broadcasting a live discussion programme in which audience members blamed U.S. foreign policy for Tuesday's terror attacks. More than 2,000 viewers complained after seeing the former U.S. Ambassador to Britain, Philip Lader, brought close to tears after attempts to express his sadness over the attacks were shouted down by people expressing anti-American views. "On balance, I think it was an inappropriate programme to broadcast live just two days after the attacks in the United States and I would like to apologise to viewers who were offended by it," Dyke said in a statement. The scenes on the Question Time programme on Thursday night prompted Dyke, the BBC's Director General, to add: "With hindsight this programme should have been recorded and edited before it was broadcast." "I have today spoken to Philip Lader, and apologised for any distress the programme may have caused him," Dyke said. One audience member had asked whether the attacks were the result of a failure of US foreign policy "with millions of people around the world despising the American nation," according to the Independent newspaper. Mr Lader, who was slow hand clapped by some members of the audience, was tearful. "I find it hurtful that you are suggesting that a majority of the world despises the United States," he said according to news sources. The Sun newspaper said that one Arab woman replied: "It is the American government which is talking about war." The programme's presenter, David Dimbleby, struggled to control the discussion and tempers became raised, according to the BBC. The Corporation said that many of those who complained about the programme said the audience seemed to contain a disproportionate number of people with anti-American views. The BBC said that the programme tried to pick audiences with a broad range of views and had hoped to stage a frank discussion about the attacks.

Mari in the balance of things, there is a stronger anti-American view in general, therefore the balance was probably tilted correctly. A NEW WORLD OF DISORDER Globalization is a far off ideal. This is the real world, I hope world leaders get hip to the beat. I am just waiting to see when the call comes to the European "allies" who will respond. An interesting article, Liz. And I don't usually agree with the views of The Economist.

So many articles I have read this morning, talk about how Bush and his "take it or leave it" arrrogant approach to world affairs, is partially responsible for the horrors of last Tuesday. Aren't these authors forgetting, that the ball for the horrific events of Sep 11, started rolling long before Bush came to power ? These hijackers were tucked away at their Florida flight schools when Bill Clinton was still in power and Bush Jr was just another politican. Clinton by the way, did a damm sight more to end terrorism than any other US President in history, in my homeland of Ireland. Pro US feelings probably run higher in Ireland, than in any other European country.

Everyone, I can assure you that from what I have heard, discussions on the radio, television, with people, ordinary people in the street, Politicians of all parties, no one is anti- American, you have our full and unqualified support, of that I am certain, I have heard no dissenters. Everyone in the UK is appalled and shocked by last week's tragedy, who would not be.

Ann, One can have anti-American views and be appalled and shocked by last week's tragedy. The point is that in general that's the feeling in Europe. Pro US feelings probably run higher in Ireland, than in any other European country. Agreed! Aren't these authors forgetting, that the ball for the horrific events of Sep 11, started rolling long before Bush came to power? I agree again,Beth, but don't forget that the majority of the media in Europe is secular and socialist. That says it all!

Moon, in general, what's the feeling in Europe? anti American? as a European, I beg to disagree. Maybe there aren't as many Europeans on this board as on some of the other groups I'm in, but the out-pouring of feelings from all over Europe, indeed the world, has been amazing to see. And does questioning what a government does make you anti that govt? I don't think so, in fact I think its the essence of democracy. However it must be noted that it is no more correct to say "Europeans think ..." than it would be to say "Americans think ..." and to say that there is a sole European view would be incorrect. I suggest, very hesitantly, that there might be differences between English speaking and non English speaking nations - Beth would you say that's fair? BTW the mainstream media in the UK is far from socialist, despite what the Daily Bellylaugh would have us believe.

"The Corporation said that many of those who complained about the programme said the audience seemed to contain a disproportionate number of people with anti-American views. " "Anti- people" are the ones that are mostly motivated to appear on those shows and most of them have hidden agendas. Ann, I know that the majority of the UK friends don't have those feelings. I have been listening to TV this aft and now is the time that all the special interest groups are gonna come out fighting.Get ready to hear from: the environmentalists, the animal rights people,pro -life, NOW, the various political parties, the extreme religious right. This is after all a democracy. Everyone has an opinion. This came yesterday from a British Theatre Newsletter: "To all of our US subscribers, I know I speak for everyone else when I send you our deepest sympathies. Whether one agrees with US foreign policy or not, no one can condone mass murder or be unmoved by the scale of the tragedy which has struck your nation. I love New York and have many friends there. I am unable to express the depth of my horror at what has happened. Today, as I drove near my home, I saw some young children had set what in the UK we call a "jumble sale" on a grassed area. They were selling their toys and books to raise money for the American Red Cross and a US flag flew over the tables. I think that says far more than I can." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ We don't all agree with every foreign policy decision that is made, but to say we deserved the tragedy as that article intimated is barbaric.

Moon, in general, what's the feeling in Europe? anti American? as a European, I beg to disagree. One can have anti-American views and be appalled and shocked by last week's tragedy. The point is that in general that's the feeling in Europe. I will stop repeating myself here as this point does not seem to get through. And does questioning what a government does make you anti that govt? I don't think so, in fact I think its the essence of democracy. To be truly "democratic" you should present both points of view. Unfortunately, and again I repeat, the majority of the media in Europe is secular and socialist. And it comes off very one-sided. I will add that I am very familiar with the Italian and French Media.

Rob, my sympathies. Warmest Hugs on New Zealand's loss. Sorry you multinationals, but rolling over and playing dead will just play into their hands. If we don't stop it, they will take over the world. Good luck! Perhaps you don't want our help next time YOUR war starts?! I think I will go back to geology and astronomy where some rationality reigns.

I think I will go back to geology and astronomy where some rationality reigns. LOL, Marcia! I don't wish to be misunderstood. I think everyone should join forces with the US to fight this war. I would like it to be a united effort and I was only questioning whether it will be. Whether the European allies will join the US? I hope to God that they will. There is no socialist/secular blood in my veins!

I really think at this stage, most Americans look on the candle light vigils and the expressions of sympathy and support as really nice and up lifting. However, ( those who are in favour of military action ) believe that while expressions of support are wonderful, it is time for European governments to put their money where their mouth is and show their support in more concrete terms. Italy said yesterday for example, that while they condemm the terrorist attacks, they will not coperate with the US in any military actions the US takes. They think that this is America's fight and not their own. I wonder will they still think that, if the next plane to be hikacked is an Italian one ? So having a nation wide moment of silence in your country is a lovely thing, it ISnot going to get the job done against the terorists. I don't think pro or anti American feelings are causing European nations to react as they do to possible military actions. I think it is simply whether or not they are willing to get their hands dirty to wipe out a threat that affects us all. Some will be, some won't be....simple as that. Plus I really feel a lot of this so called anti-American sentiment is based largely on resentment, based on America wealth and power. They resent America for having such an abundance of riches when they are living, if not a hand to mouth exhistance, at least a less luxurious one. America is percieved as the big, ugly kid in the corner who can boss people around simply because they can. Then are then disliked and picked on, when in fact they may be simple and peace loving as the rest of us. Every time I go home to Ireland, I get little digs from friends and family about my jet set life style and my fabulous standard of living, simply beacuse I live in America. I mean it is ridiculous. They have no clue what my life is really like and, that it is on many levels, just as hard as theirs. But that little bit if resentment is always there. It drives me nuts. I really think a lot of this sentiment has its roots in WW2 too. The USA bailed Europe out of a big ole nasty mess 50 years ago, and then gave Europe a ton of money to rebuild itself. This messed with Eropeans sense of their own self worth as they needed a vulgar, upstart of a nation to save their butts 50 years ago. No one likes the feeling of being permanantly beholden to someone. If they can take a little dig at America and how messed up its foreign policy is, then maybe in some sad little way, it ressures them that they are not just one tiny, little European country.....but that they are still the great colonial power from 100 years ago. They hate the fact that the US has a larger role to play in world affairs than they do and resent them as a result. I'm sorry if my thoughts sound vague or disjointed. I'm getting ready to go to an Aerosmith concert, as I type. I had been looking forward to it for weeks, but now I'd give anything not to go. Concerts seem so trivial now...... somehow....sigh.....

Excellent summation, Beth. I've thought that for a long time. Makes them appear even more petty in my mind. I doubt the US wants all the countries/peoples of the world that we've help to feel beholden to us, but at least they can act like friends rather than enemies, sniping at everything we do. Try factoring in a longer-term perspective. There have been many world powers, countries whose influence has extended beyond their borders. Some have conquered other peoples. Some only exert economic influence. These date back to the beginning of time. The US's standing as a global power has only been for a mere 50 years or so. Think about how long there was a British Empire or a French empire. If our culture has overwhelmed others, at least it is not due to military occupation. This afternoon, while driving around, I was trying to come up with equivalents, i.e., if the commercial jetliners had crashed into symbols of other countries. I thought about Italy or France but could only come up with symbols of their past. If our so-called allies do not support us, this is one time I would definitely advocate picking up our ball and bat and going home. Rots a ruck.

This afternoon, while driving around, I was trying to come up with equivalents, i.e., if the commercial jetliners had crashed into symbols of other countries. I thought about Italy or France but could only come up with symbols of their past. I thought of this too. The only place would be a football match, perhaps a qualifying World Cup Match. That thought is scary. Milan's stadium holds 84,000 people. Italy said yesterday for example, that while they condemm the terrorist attacks, they will not coperate with the US in any military actions the US takes. That was a rumour. I believe that the Italian Gov. has stated that they will support the US with their military, planes, ships etc. Berlusconi supports Bush and the US. Luckily, his coalition have a majority in the Senate and the House. This would not have been the case had the Socialist won the last election.

Moon One can have anti-american views and be appalled... Moon, it's not just that at least not in the UK, Tony Blair has repeated time and again in interviews that the UK Government is behind the US in whatever it takes and I do believe that this time the UK Public is right behind the government, urging caution, not just because of the US but for democracy and the fact that what happened in NY could happen in London. In fact it wasn't many years ago that the John Major cabinet in Downing Street was attacked by Rockets fired by the IRA.

Ann, I never doubted the UK's backing or Italy's for that matter. I am more worried about France, Belgium, etc.

(Moon)The only place would be a football match, perhaps a qualifying World Cup Match. That thought is scary. Milan's stadium holds 84,000 people. But a football match, while upping the casualty toll, is not symbolic. Two days before the WTC and Pentagon were hit, there were three major sports events taking place within a few miles of eachother--nearly 80K at a Jets game in East Rutherford, thousands at the US Open Tennis Tournament in Queens, and I believe the Yankees played at home in the Bronx. Yankee Stadium holds about 60K. You've got around 175,000 people concentrated in three easy-to-hit targets within less than 20 miles. bin Laden wasn't going for large numbers of people.

Italy said yesterday for example, that while they condemm the terrorist attacks, they will not coperate with the US in any military actions the US takes. At today's press conference with Secretary Powell, a journalist told him that rumor and he denied it. Said his Italian counterpart would be in Washington in a few days.

Hi all I got BAD news for anyone worried about the Taliban response. According to our local daily the Taliban is moving Scud missiles (the sort that hit Israel in the Gulf War)around and has called up 20000 fighters to fight any ground war. Are you sure you got the right targets, because God help the Western world and anyone who fell into cahoots with the United States if you have not. There are two kinds of war - the undeclared war like this one where military strikes are carried out but no official declaration of war, and a general war involving the mobilisation of the armed forces and the cancellation of diplomatic relations by declaring war. On to other things. Let me be absolutely clear, I am not trying to undermine the greiving process or the determination to retaliate when I write the following. I support the impending war insofar as the right targets are hit and that it give the appearance of the international coalition being united. What I do not support is an all out war (a world war would not be impossible in this case), because I am pretty certain no one wants mushroom clouds and radioactive darts doing a sinister ballet across the skies. You may ask what has Colombia got to do with anything at the moment, but have you honestly ever considered the fact that unwanted involvement on the part of the CIA and Pentagon in places like Colombia has fuelled the conflict there to the point that it has the capacity to possibly engulf neighbouring countries? Or how about the International Monetary Fund in African countries where the nebulous Multinational Corporations that have corporate HQ in New York ply their trade at dirt cheap rates? The IMF will not allow financial aid to these countries while corruption and other problems are rife in them. Fair enough. But to sort out those problems in part requires IMF help. So what does all this have to do with anything? Well, that coupled with things like the $30 billion National Missile Defence system and things like withdrawing from international environmental protocols (I know that the Climate Protocol is dogged by not knowing whether warming is cyclical or not), has a few countries fuming (pro-US and anti-US)because they see the United States as using them for it's own gain and every western country including New Zealand is guilty to some extent. Still not a reason to attack the WTC, but the faceless cowards that did probably used something like this to justify their attack. Maybe Bush can soften his stance on trade and thing like the environmental protocols since they are designed to protect our offspring, and open dialogue with North Korea before Kim Il Jong decides to restart the missile programme that crippled his nation. I may lose some friends for this, but it is my honest opinion (one that existed well before Bush came to power, but has come to the fore because he has it in his power if he wants to, to change a few things). I do not advocate a general change in foreign policy or a reduction on arms spending and certainly don't want to open the United States to something even worse, but I would look at a couple things long and hard. Rob All arguments to my e-mail. I am certain Marcia did not intend Geo to become a warzone.

Do any of you know of any websites that I can tell her about, that give out info on what supplies are still needed ? I tried the Red Cross website, but didn't get much info.(Beth) Here are a couple of info sites about how to help. http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010924/help.html http://www.helping.org/

20,000 fighters? Is that a typo? The $30 billion National Missile Defense system has been rendered less relevant. This might better be spent on counter bioterror measures.

Rob, you may post anything any time in anything I have anything to do with. Your statistics are staggering. Columbia, of course!!! We have a long litany of nefarious deeds in the name of "Patriotism". Anthrax, anyone? What a horrible way to die! It will be conventional because any other kind of war will kill mankind and every other living thing... That is why I posted a ribbon on Geo's front page...

Subject: Monday morning Date: Monday, September 17, 2001 12:57 PM From: Womack, Jack Yes, Monday morning. Took longer than usual to go as far as 72nd as the local is now running on the express tracks and the express is running on the local tracks. Have assumed, as with everything that has so far occured, that this condition is now permanent. Here at work my colleague Dee Dee is back at work today; she came in with her husband, Gavin. It's a typical story, now: he was on the 104th floor of the South Tower. When the first plane hit the other tower three guys in his office got up and immediately went downstairs, catching the elevator to 75 and then taking the express down. By the time the three guys got to the lobby the second building had been hit. Her brother-in-law called her sister twice, the second time to say smoke was filling the floor and he was on his way down. "He fucked up," Dee Dee's brother kept saying. He was working in the World Financial Center, across the West Side Highway from the Trade Towers, was outside when the second plane hit. Says that dozens were jumping, you weren't sure what they were at first. When the first tower collapsed everybody, he said, started to run. Uncontrolled mass panic on the part of everyone, swarming up along the river walk to the highway. (There've been plenty of reports of injuries suffered by people trampled in the two stampedes away from the collapsing buildings). By the time he got to the Village, the second tower collapsed. As you might imagine he's got a combat-level thousand yard stare; I'd forgotten but now remember older brothers etc. looking like that, back in the late 60s and early 70s, after they came back from Vietnam. My neighbor, across the hall, a young Latina woman (and her seven-year-old son) is fine, although she worked in a building across the street from the Towers. Again, she was outside when the first one started to come down; her particular crowd streamed eastward as far as they could go, then up. "I guess you'll be seeing me around the apartment the next few weeks." Friday night Valeria read what I'd written so far. "You are describing events," she told me. "Not emotion." And she's absolutely right. So let me say how I'm feeling this morning, and how I've been feeling. The first thing I want to make clear is how gratified I was to know that V was all right, last Tuesday; how overwhelmed with happiness, how comforted. We weren't sure we were going to see each other that day, but once the trains to Brooklyn began, she was able to get back. We have spent as much time as we have together, since. I feel deeply blessed, and feel as guilty. When I think of what Ellen and Ellie & all those of our friends who live south of 14th went through (and in the case of Ellie, still going through; her place might not be accessible again for weeks, at the least; she's headed up to New Hampshire.) I know we came out very, very lucky. We came out easy, in fact. I'm feeling terrible nostalgia for buildings that I never found attractive, except sometimes at a distance. I think of all the times I went through the mall underneath the towers, on my way to the PATH station to go visit Valeria when she still lived in Jersey City. During the past three years I became very familiar with everything down there. I remember V & I meeting her mother down there, at the head of the escalators that went up from the station. She'd stand and wait in front of Godiva, which was next to an HSBC branch. I remember being down at the Border's WTC back in June (last time I was there, in fact) when Gaiman had his tour kickoff appearance. I remember walking with Katya & Carrie & Robert Legault across the bridge that led between the towers & World Financial Center, en route to Ellie's apartment, for the wake after the memorial service for Jenna, April 6. The orchid show was going on, and the bridge and Palm Court downstairs (also destroyed, pretty much, though the palms are still standing) were full of orchids. On our refrigerator is a little card of a Boston bull terrier Carrie sent us a month or so ago, thanking us for brunch; she'd bought the card in the mall underneath with Ellie. Any of us might have been there, and but for the grace of God, or synchronicity, or something, we weren't. Not this time, at least. This isn't a comforting feeling, still. Familiar landmarks vanish constantly in NY -- they're getting ready, or have been getting ready, to build a new Columbia building around the corner from me at 110th where D'agostino was -- but never before have so many vanished so quickly, so awfully. I cannot begin to imagine what the place will look like, once it has finally been cleared. I haven't looked at a newspaper since Saturday morning except just to glimpse headlines & pages(I did save them, though); I haven't turned on any of the news programming except at the request of others when they've come to visit. The more I saw the worse I was feeling -- jittery, irritable, unable to focus or concentrate, all the anxieties that signify low-level signs of PTSD -- so I stopped watching. This morning I read the Daily News on the way down, and have been keeping up with things on the Internet. I think I'm probably able to handle print again but I'm not sure if that will last. This weekend I ramped up my dosage of Wellbutrin (an antidepressant) from 75 mg back to 225, and depression in some sense -- the chemical, I'd ordinarily say, but in this case who knows? -- has lifted. Last night, in a dream, I looked up through the sunroof of an automobile and saw a thin dark tower three times taller than the Trade towers. I'm terribly sad. And I'm terribly angry, and nowhere of course to strike out with said anger. And ergo have the same sense that I suspect everyone has, that of being buffeted by events. This of course exacerbates the sorrow, and if turned inward, becomes depression automatically. The emotion I'm feeling now that is the strongest and most disturbing because newest is fear. Fear of a very particular sort. I was just too young to consciously remember the Cuban missile crisis (although some of my most powerful memories in my life are of the Kennedy assassination, a year later) so have no direct familiarity with genuine, immediate, and justified fear over ongoing current events. For years of course we all grew up with the possibility, however remote at times it seemed, of their being nuclear war, but that was always something at the back of the head (although I think that fear, suspicion, call it what you will, influenced the middle of the last century far more than has been understood or admitted). This, however, is a different situation. The fear of a nuclear, chemical or biological event that *may very well, and probably will, happen,* somewhere, if not New York. Fear that genuine, and in our new context justified, will influence this century as greatly. This doesn't have entirely bad effects. It may sound like a cliche, or at least reminiscent of what our parents or grandparents have told us, but I really haven't felt so alive in my life. But this past weekend --- on Friday night, V & I stayed in, and friends from across the street came over. We fixed pasta and then watched Tarkovsky's SOLARIS, at least as far as the journey along the freeway to which you'd alerted me. Saturday we went to Grand Central (which seems now like one of those temporary buildings erected for the Columbian or Pan-Pacific Expositions, looking solid though made of chicken wire and spackle) and caught the train up to Wave Hill, a former estate on the Hudson in Riverdale, in the Bronx. It is open, it is distant, it is beautiful, and we had several peaceful hours there. On the way back we walked from Grand Central down 42nd as far as 72nd & Broadway. The main thing noticed in Times Square is that presently it's no more crowded there than it would have been years ago; the tourists have, at this point, mostly either left town or are at the airports waiting to get out of town. No wonder there's less traffic, fewer people on the streets even today, when things are about as much back in shape as they're going to be any time soon. Rather than having one tremendous drop-off place for flowers etc.(I gather Union Square's is pretty good sized), there sprang up all throughout town, at various places -- on 42nd between 6th & 7th, at the Maine Memorial on Columbus Circle, in Riverside Park -- places where pictures of the dead were put up, candles were left, single flowers; the shrines are spontaneous, and of human size. (On Riverside drive, Sunday morning, three candles were left burning just outside a delivery entrance at one of the apartment buildings.) Sunday we had friends over for brunch -- Ellen, Carrie, Robert -- and then went for a walk through Riverside, the drive & the park. Ran into Peter Straub & his wife and we talked for awhile. At Fairway, a fine supermarket at 74th, we all went our separate way for today. It's getting harder for me to talk about what has happened, when friends call (Judith Clute called last night). There just isn't anything more to say about what happened; only what will happen. I noticed that among the movies not shown this weekend as they were scheduled to be shown (INDEPENDENCE DAY, on NBC, and I wonder if that will ever be shown again; AIRPORT, on TCM) was GODZILLA VS. MECHAGODZILLA, on AMC. A response equivalent to suspending 6-year olds for bringing fingernail clippers to school, I think, but perhaps not. The most fascinating thing about all this is that today, for the first time, I can feel, I know, that the event has become contextualized; that we now expect smoke in the air, train delays, the papers full of rising body counts (though still @5,000); that the fear in the front of our heads has settled into the middle; that the bar has been so lifted for imagination as to be scarcely understandable, still. That these are aspects of reality that are, now, real and therefore not as shocking in some very real way as they initially were. But, as you were saying when you told me about the person you knew who'd just come back from the Buddhist retreat, the event taken as history is extremely different from the event experienced as reality. In the eulogy I wrote for Jenna, back in March, after she died so suddenly, I noted the following: Borges spoke of how his father once remarked that he realized it was impossible to remember his childhood. He had, he said, come to understand that what he had always believed to be his memories of events, or scenes, or people, were in fact memories only of the last time he had had the memory. That each time the shade of the memory came to mind, its underlying actuality receded ever further into the irretrievable past. Today we might use the metaphor of a videotape, duped infinite times, over endless generations, until only the blurriest outline remained of a crystalline vision. But the kind of memories seared into the head last week, I think, are of the kind that remain painfully sharp, and clear. I remember my second grade teacher clapping her hand to her face when the principal came on over the loudspeaker and said the President had been "ambushed in Texas," and the immediate thing that came to my mind involved cowboys, sagebrush, and horses. I remember my mother & grandparents wandering through the house, the TV on constantly in the background, obviously as dumbfounded as we all are now. I remember in fact watching TV almost constantly, the black and white blurs, the constant reiteration. I remember how it poured rain, all day, throughout the east on Saturday, the day after the assassination. I remember hearing my mom saying "what happened?" when Ruby shot Oswald. I remember the drumming, all day long, on Monday; and I remember them playing Taps in the background at the very end, around suppertime on Monday. I remember my mom saying to my grandmother, "turn it off. Just turn it off." The TV, meaning. In this instance too I suppose memory will offer no relief, as parts of it will never fade.

Subject: The Weekly PoliTicker Date: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:49 AM From: PoliticsOnline To: Special Edition: Analysis of the Role of the Internet and the Attack on America Note From: Phil Noble (phil@politicsonline.com) President, PoliticsOnline 843 853 8190 office phone 843 296 1490 mobile PoliticsOnline has received many calls from journalists and others about what role the Internet is playing in the current crisis. To respond we have 1) developed this Special Report that outlines the six key points in understanding the developments and, 2) created a special section on our web site (www.PoliticsOnline.com) to track these developments and provide a research and reference source. The attack on the Pentagon is indeed ironic when we remember that it was the Army that started it all way back in 1969 with a project called ARPNET. They wanted to design a system that would allow computers to communicate in times of national disaster. They were planning on missile attacks from the Russians, not civilian airplane attacks from terrorists. As one analyst noted, during this crisis people turned to the Internet for what they needed and wanted, just as they began doing with the telephone many years ago. Recently the focus has been on the crash of the tech stocks and the success and failures of e-commerce. This week the Internet stories were about the technology was incorporated into the daily life of average citizens in these extraordinary times. This week the Internet truly became The People's Channel. 1. What the Net does best is Communications and Connections In this crisis, the Internet did what it does best - communicating and connecting. For those personally caught up in the crisis, it was a means of communications when other means failed. People stranded in the World Trade Center Towers sent e-mails and instant messages to their loved ones; Blackberrys and pagers came through when mobile phones and land lines failed. Hundreds of online groups formed to do all the things people wanted to do - reach out to each other, share their grief, search for friends and loved ones. * NY.com (www.ny.com) created an interactive database listing survivors from the Trade Center collapse. Within 24 hours they had 2,600 listings. * Hundreds of people posted prayers, related prayer circles and discussions groups on Beliefnet (www.beliefnet.com), a popular non-denominational site. * United (www.ual.com) and American Airlines (www.americanairlines.com) posted information and listed phone numbers for people to call looking for more information on their crashes. * People used Yahoo Groups to create numerous discussion groups to share information, express grief and vent their anger. Survivor Databases Offered by NY.Com and Prodigy (InternetNews) Ny.com, a Web site that calls itself the "paperless guide to New York City" and Prodigy, the national ISP, are offering interactive databases listing survivors of Tuesday's World Trade Center collapse. http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article/0,,3_882651,00.html Web Offers Both News and Comfort (New York Times) The major news Web sites were quickly overloaded. Many links to the not-so- major news Web sites stopped working. But more than news, what people all over the world craved in the wake of yesterday's terrorist attacks was connection to each other, and many of them found that most easily achieved by going online. http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article/0,,3_882651,00.html After Attack, the Net Reassures and Informs (USA Today) As phone systems faltered in the aftermath of Tuesday's terrorist attack, the nation clung to the Net, reaching out to friends and loved ones, praying, spreading accusations and gossip, and overwhelming news and information sites. http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2001/09/12/more Net Offers Lifeline Amid Tragedy (CNET) People in New York City and around the globe turned to the Internet on Tuesday to communicate with their families and to grasp the horrific sequence of terrorist attacks that transformed the World Trade Center and the Pentagon into disaster zones. http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-7132246.html Internet Performs Global Role, Supplementing TV (Online Journalism Review) History expands. Terribly. In 1914, two bullets fired at an automobile driving through the streets of Sarajevo killed the Archduke Franz Ferdinand and Sophia, his wife. Their deaths led to World War One. http://ojr.usc.edu/content/story.cfm?request=637 Web Acts as Hub For Info On Attacks (CNET) Moments after airplanes separately crashed into both towers of the World Trade Center, and then later the Pentagon, Web sites for the major news outlets were swamped by an overflow of traffic. http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-7129241.html E-Mail Indispensable as Phone Systems Jam (Atlanta Journal-Constitution) As the World Trade Center collapsed and planes plunged from the sky, sending and receiving e-mail -- the most popular Internet activity -- became the indispensable communication tool during the attacks. (September 12, 2001) http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/terrorism/atlanta/0911email.html Net Helps Connect People in Distress (ZDNet) People in New York City and around the globe turned to the Internet on Tuesday to communicate with their families and to grasp the horrific sequence of terrorist attacks that transformed the World Trade Center and the Pentagon into disaster zones. (September 13, 2001) http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5096867,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews01 International E-mails Show Depth of Shock at Attacks (Sky News) Everyone from city governors to newsreaders and presidents have expressed their shock at the scenes in America. (September 11, 2001) http://www.sky.com/skynews/storytemplate/storytoppic/0,,30000-1029113,00.html 2. The Net created a Helping Network After connecting and communicating, the second big use of the Internet is helping - people reaching out to help in any way that they can. The ability for instant response is one of the greatest strengths of the Internet and the crisis is a perfect demonstration of the potential. Within minutes of the first reports sites were set up to provide mechanisms for people to help. * Amazon (www.amazon.com) converted its first page into an appeal for help to its 35 million customers. According to a ticker on their site, by 3pm Friday 128, 000 people had contributed $4.7 million. * Numerous sites linked to the American Red Cross (www.redcross.org) site that was reporting 50 million individual visits within the first day. In addition to taking contributions and directing people where to go to give blood, they also provided extensive news coverage about relief efforts. * AOL/Time Warner and their Foundation are using their many channels to direct people, most notably their effective Helping section (www.helping.org) that became a pop-up window on AOL's front page. * MSNBC (www.msnbc.com) and others are using their site to promote relief efforts with on-screen solicitations to various organizations as well as separate banner ads for such organizations as the Salvation Army. * Members of Congress eager to get involved are also using their sites to channel people's efforts. George Washington University's Democracy Online Project (www.congressonlineproject.org) distributed a special edition of their newsletter on how members of Congress can use their sites to help. America Under Attack: How to Help (MSNBC) To help the victims, offer tips to the police or get information on loved ones, check the provided links. (September 14, 2001) http://www.msnbc.com/news/627095_asp.htm?0cm=c30 Web Sites Take Red Cross Donations (MSNBC) Web site operators, including Yahoo and Amazon.com, have set up virtual donation baskets to collect relief funds in the wake of horrific attacks on New York and Washington, D.C. More than 40,000 people had contributed over $1 million on Amazon.com by Wednesday afternoon. http://www.msnbc.com/news/627761.asp Make A Difference On The Net (ABC News) Web site operators including online retail giant Amazon.com Inc. have set up virtual donation baskets to collect relief funds in the wake of horrific attacks on New York and Washington, D.C. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/wtc_onlinecontributions010912.html 3. The Technology Worked Unquestionably, this week was the biggest test to date of the Internet in its 32-year history - and it worked. It creaked and it groaned; it was often slow and congested; a few major sites went down, but only briefly. In short - it worked. As Tim Blair of the Online Journalism Review noted, "Princess Diana's car crash and Bill Clinton's Oval Office follies suddenly seem minor markers in the evolution of the Net..." Most communications networks, of almost any type, were swamped with unprecedented traffic. * For a recap of website response time for the major news sites, see PoliticsOnline's Key Stats (http://www.politicsonline.com/pol2000/tragedy/tragedy.asp). * Many sites had to add additional servers or stripped down their pages so that they would load faster. * The day of the attacks, CNN reported 9 million hits per hour as compared to its usual daily average of 11 million. CNN received offers of excess server capacity from several US and international companies. CNN executive producer Mitch Gelman said they declined the offer but he took down their number just in case. * MSNBC reported a ten-fold increase in traffic and many international sites such as the BBC reported record numbers. * Cingular Wireless, the second largest US wireless carrier reported a 400% increase in calls attempted in the Washington area and 1000% in New York. * The nation's largest long distance company, ATT, had twice the normal workday traffic. Internet Lessons Will Be Learned From U.S. Attacks (Washingtonpost.com) Although the events of this terrible week will probably never be forgotten, the disaster recovery issues that companies have had to face in the aftermath of the multiple disasters across the U.S. will help firms and organizations in the future, an Internet expert said today. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/170053.html High-Tech Industry Plods On In Wake of Attacks (Washingtonpost.com) Technology companies across the country opened for business today as industry leaders vowed not to be paralyzed by the terrorist attacks that struck the Pentagon and World Trade Center on Tuesday. http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/170023.html Internet Buckles Under Demand for Attack News (CNN) Internet traffic buckled and major Web sites were jammed as surfers crowded online for details on the airplane attacks in New York and Washington D.C. http://asia.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/asia/09/11/ny.internetcrumbles/index.html Internet Traffic Soars Following U.S. Attacks (Reuters) Internet news traffic soared on Tuesday following attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington, D.C., slowing retrieval times on popular Web news sites and forcing online publishers to cut back on graphics and interactive features. (September 13, 2001) http://www.reuters.com/fullstory.jsp?type=internetnews&StoryID=212755 Internet Reacts to America Under Attack (U.S. News) As America reacts to apparent terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and other possible targets, millions turn to the Web for information. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/misc/internet.htm News Sites Endure Overload After Attack (CBS News) Devastating attacks on the U.S. strained and brought down the nation's leading news Web sites on Tuesday as millions of people logged on to catch the latest updates hitting the Internet. (September 11, 2001) http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yhoo/story.asp?source=blq/yhoo&siteid=yhoo&d%20ist=yhoo&guid=%7B4994600C%2D3ACC%2D4A3A%2DAF5B%2D1F91B6BC0067%7D Traffic Jams Internet In Wake of Attacks (Nando Times) Internet traffic slowed and major news Web sites were slow to load as people craving details on Tuesday morning's World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks went online. http://www.nandotimes.com/technology/story/77130p-1082111c.html Scrambling for News (ABC News) A rush of Internet users seeking the latest news on the series of attacks on buildings in the United States snarled major European news sites today. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/WTC_internet010911.html Tech Sites Pick Up the News (Wired) Personalized Internet radio stations and technology websites abandoned their normal news-delivery operations as major Internet media outlets wilted under the crush of traffic following Tuesday's attacks in New York and Washington. http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,46716,00.html 4. The Net as a Tool of Investigation Almost immediately after the attack, the FBI and other law enforcement people turned to the Internet for help in tracking down the terrorist and thoes who support them. For the first time, they used the Net as a tool of investigation and called upon people to use the net to respond, and respond they did from all parts of the US and around the world. Also, in an action that is sure to draw a response (even if delay for a while) from privacy advocates, the FBI stepped up monitoring of email traffic. * Attorney General John Ashcroft asked people to send information to the FBI online through The Internet Fraud Complaint Center site (www.ifccfbilgov). The site had received only about 10,000 complaints since it was established last year and the response crashed the site. It was still down as of late Friday afternoon. * The FBI issued search warrants to some of the nation's largest ISP's to get information on email address and other information about suspected terrorist and their communications. AOL, Microsoft, Yahoo, Earthlink, and Excite@Home were all contacted and are cooperating. * The FBI has been installing "Carnivores" (now renamed DCS1000) which are Fed computers that are placed at an ISP's core to electronically monitor the ISP's electronic communications. Scouring Cyberspace for Clues on Attack (ABC News) In the effort to find those responsible for the horrific terrorist attacks on America, the FBI is searching everywhere - including cyberspace - for clues. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/WTC_netsearch010913.html FBI Utilizing Internet for Clues (Nando Times) The FBI is issuing search warrants to major Internet service providers to get information about an e-mail address believed to be connected to Tuesday's terrorist attacks. http://www.nandotimes.com/technology/story/77995p-1092583c.html FBI Web Site Overwhelmed (MSNBC) Attorney General John Ashcroft asked that anyone with information about terrorist attacks contact the FBI via a Web site - but that site was jammed within seconds of Ashcroft's announcement Tuesday night and has been inaccessible since. http://www.msnbc.com/news/627693.asp?0si=- 5. Cyber Security - Electronic Pearl Harbor To date there does not seem to have been a cyber-attack on companies or the government in coordination with the attack in New York and Washington. But, it is widely expected to happen at some time if not now. The warning and alarm bells about our vulnerability to an electronic Pearl Harbor have filled the tech press since the attack. * Terrorist organizations are noted for their skill in using the Internet and communications technology in general. NewsFactor Network reported "Experts say that terrorists have made a practice of putting encrypted messages, including maps of targets, inside seemingly innocent internet chat rooms, bulletin boards and other web sites." * Some new sites report that cyber activist sites are calling for cyber- counter attacks on sites of governments friendly to known terrorist groups. * Internet security sites and related security company sites have reported a dramatic increase in contacts from business seeking help with protecting their site and companies from a possible attack. Cybersecurity Seriousness Escalates (Federal Computer Week) A Senate hearing originally scheduled to examine the security of the critical cyber infrastructure took on extra meaning as Congress and the nation attempted to respond to Tuesday's terrorist attacks. http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/2001/0910/web-sec-09-13-01.asp How Terrorists Use the Internet (NewsFactor Network) The same advantages the Internet and advanced technology bring to the general public and to business -- speed, security and global linkage -- are helping international terrorist groups organize their deadly and disruptive activities. http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/7731.html U.S. Attack: Companies Warned About Possible Cyber Attacks (InfoWorld) Government and private-sector security experts fear that Tuesday's attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon are only the beginning of a wave of assaults that could include cyberterrorism. http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/09/12/010912hncyber.xml Companies Urged to Prepare for Cyber Terrorism (Industry Standard) Government and private-sector security officials warn that the attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon may be followed by a wave cyberterrorist assaults. http://www.thestandard.com/article/0,1902,28947,00.html?nl=mg 6. The Dark Side Emerges: Hate, Scams and Sickos "The Internet, like American society itself, is a virtual reflection of the best and worst that humanity has to offer, say reporters for internet.com - and they are right. The disaster has brought the rats out of the sewers and they are spamming the Net with phony contribution come-ons and spewing racist bile. * Anti-Arab hate speech was the first to surface. Sites related to Arab groups or simply those of some of the ordinary 7 million Americans of Arab descent have been targets both online and offline. * So-called Christian evangelist Jerry Falwell linked the attack to the ACLU, gays, pro-choice activist and those who wanted to ban school prayer. * Numerous scams to get credit card donations in the name of the tragedy have been launched; many use the name of the Red Cross and other reputable organizations. * Some people tried to sell pieces of the rubble and other "souvenirs" of the disaster on E-Bay. The company has since barred any such sales. * A video game called WTC Defender has appeared where users can shoot down planes flying toward the twin towers. Scam Artists Capitalize On Tragedy (MSNBC) Consumer protection advocates are warning Internet users that scam artists are trying to take advantage of Tuesday's terrorist attacks. http://www.msnbc.com/news/628230_asp.htm Growing Number of Internet Scams Mar Relief Efforts (InternetNews) The Internet, like American society itself, is a virtual reflection of the best and worst that humanity has to offer. http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article/0,,3_884031,00.html Web Vents Open on U.S. Muslims (Wired) As the volume of anti-Arab hate speech on the Internet cranked to full blast Wednesday, U.S. Muslims reported rampant harassment on- and offline. http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,46778,00.html "Purge Our Society," Online Bigots Shout (Salon) While most online reactions have focused on expressions of emotional support and pleas for calm, there is also evidence that in many online communities, Muslim-Christian relations already are breaking down -- as posters, assuming the attacks are the work of Islamic radicals, lash out. http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/09/11/net_hate/index.html Whew!

Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:18:52 -0700 From: William Meyers To: terry@spring.net, paul@spring.net Subject: more Paul, Here's another fragment: As soon as we got to work that morning word went around that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center -- and soon after that, another one. Then the rumor took flight that there were five more hijacked airliners in the air. There was the distinct thought in the collective mind that at any moment we could be vaporized too -- that so far we were simply among the lucky ones, and no different from those whose luck had just run out. I took a walk around midtown Manhattan at mid-day, through the herds of people streaming up the avenues and through the park toward their uptown apartments -- strangely silent and subdued, preoccupied and fearful, many stopping off and lining up at their ATMs to tank up for future uncertainties. Down at the end of Sixth and Fifth Avenues, where the twin towers used to be, a thick volcanic cloud of smoke and ash was roiling up in a dome -- falling like a gray snow on downwind Brooklyn later in the afternoon. All the cops you could see were already wearing flak jackets -- not a one without one -- and carrying shotguns. Hundreds of firefighters and medical rescuers were killed after the first blast when rushing to help -- that was the most disturbing part. Not that the thought of those poor people trapped in those planes was any less disturbing. I was in my office most of the day, listening to people's radios and checking the Internet bulletins/images on my computer. We knew our building could just as easily have been on fire and crumbling to the ground. It was a day of palpable grief, most of those who showed up leaving early, and work moving along at close to a standstill -- very heavy emotions welling up in everyone. "It could just as easily have been me" was the prevailing compassionate thought for all the victims. heavy emotions welling up in everyone. "It could just as easily have been me" was the prevailing compassionate thought for all the victims. At any rate, enough fear and grief was inflicted to keep the anguished and vengeful spirits who perpetrated the deed happy in their disembodied misery. What did they prove, though, but that even at the Pentagon they're just another bunch of vulnerable protoplasmic beings wishing they were happy. Luckily we had made our reservations for another round-trip flight to San Francisco just the day before -- we couldn't have managed it any later. They were for a Thanksgiving trip. Maybe by then we'll start to feel better again about flying. There's a new, more explicit message from the Dalai Lama today, calling for a nonviolent response to the tragic events. But I can't send that on to you until tomorrow. Wm

Italy said yesterday for example, that while they condemm the terrorist attacks, they will not coperate with the US in any military actions the US takes. It wasn't exactly a rumour - maybe a partial misquote: Italian defence minister rules out Italian troop role ROME, Sept 16 (AFP) - Italian Defense Minister Antonio Martino on Sunday said Italian troops would not take part in any US retaliation after the terror attacks and that use of the term "war" was inappropriate. "The term 'war' is inappropriate. It is not a conflict between states and Italian troops will not go anywhere," Martino told the RAI television station. "I feel I am in a position to categorically exclude calling on the army," he said. The defence minister warned that "nobody had better strike randomly," adding that 100,000 Italian soldiers were involved in various peacekeeping missions abroad. He said the US would certainly take military action once the perpetrators of the attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and Pentagon had been identified, and only then "will we see what we are called upon to do." Asked about Saudi-born extremist Osama bin Laden's role in the attacks, Martino said "the idea that one man is behind this tragedy is misguided." In an interview with the daily Il Messaggero published Sunday, Martino urged the US not to act alone in the event of a military operation. _________________ Monday, 17 September, 2001, 09:01 GMT 10:01 UK Italy ready to retaliate against terrorists The Italian defence minister has made it clear that his armed forces are ready to take part in any action that may be agreed in retaliation against the attacks on the United States. The minister, Antonio Martino, told the BBC that he was misquoted when he appeared to have suggested yesterday Sunday that no Italian troops would take part in such operations. Mr Martino said that intelligence would first have to show clearly who the real culprits were, but once that was done, Italy's commitment would be total and absolute. From the newsroom of the BBC World Service

I am beginning to burn out on this. I put a ribbon on my front page (Geo's) Please feel free to borrow it for wherever you wish to place it.

Hi all IT IS WAR. OFFICIAL. THE TALIBAN HAS DECLARED A HOLY WAR IN AFGHANISTAN AGAINST THE UNITED STATES. 20000 FIGHTERS STAND READY TO DIE FOR WHAT THEY PERCEIVE TO BE A GREATER CAUSE AND WHAT WE PERCEIVE TO BE MADNESS. Source: Television One New Zealand. See http://www.stuff.co.nz for more on the New Zealand coverage. I absolutely had to post this for everyone to read. See more at Stuff.co.nz - Canterbury (not sure where under Canterbury it will get posted). It was written by a nine year old school boy and featured on the front page of the Press edition for September 18, 2001. by Charles MacDonald, a pupil at Mount Pleasant Primary School In America on a Tuesday morning An EVIL force struck without warning Planes hit the buildings, people screamed A terrible accident so it seemed The towers and Pentagon both took hits The 1st tower fell and smashed to bits. The terrified bystanders choked by the smoke While the Palestinians thought it a joke Reality of it all came clear As another plane smashed in the middle of nowhere The fear and drama continued hour after hour As down came the 2nd tower The attack had cost many lives Heart-broken men cry for their wives. We DON'T want war but PEACE instead only to feel safe in our bed. Rob

Sorry my friends, but this appears to be war. The Taliban has said ANYONE HARBOURING UNITED STATES BASES ARE ALSO ON THE HIT LIST. Marcia, dear, the drumbeat of Mars is getting louder, the brass is getting more and more menacing. I for once think the possibility of a big Middle East war involving EVERYONE is not so far of after all. Rob

More from William Meyers CALCUTTA, India, Sept 17 (Reuters) - Tibet's exiled spiritual leader the Dalai Lama urged the United States on Monday not to respond militarily to last week's devastating attacks, saying only nonviolence could combat international terrorism. "While I express my sympathy, I have appealed to the U.S. president not to respond with more violence as violence is not an appropriate answer," the Tibetan Buddhist leader told a news conference in Calcutta. The Dalai Lama fled from his homeland to India with thousands of followers in 1959, nine years after the Chinese army entered Tibet and overthrew the Buddhist theocracy there. The 1989 Nobel Peace Prize laureate's comments came after Pope John Paul appealed on Sunday to the world not to allow the attacks on New York and Washington to lead to more violence, and not to allow "a spiral of hate and violence" to prevail. The United States has pledged to avenge the attacks by hijacked airliners that slammed into the twin towers of New York's World Trade Center and the Pentagon near Washington last Tuesday. NONVIOLENCE ONLY ANSWER "Most cases of violence only cause destruction...these things will have to be prevented the nonviolent way. Only nonviolent means can counter terrorism in the long-term," the Dalai Lama said. The United States has said Islamic militant Osama bin Laden, harbored by Afghanistan's Taliban rulers, was the prime suspect behind the attacks in which some 5,000 people were killed or are missing. Bin Laden, a 44-year-old multimillionaire, has denied he was responsible, saying Afghanistan would not permit it. The Dalai Lama said he believed there were numerous causes for the attacks. "Every event has many causes...you can't just pick up one individual -- Osama bin Laden -- and say he was responsible. That is not realistic," said the Dalai Lama, whose exiled government accuses China of repression in Tibet. "The economic gap between the rich and poor nations is one factor (that could have been responsible)," he said. But the Dalai Lama said the attacks could not have been sanctified by any religion. "The essence of all major religions is compassion, forgiveness, contentment, self-discipline and brotherhood," he said. "Some people may only be using the name of religion to justify their actions."

"Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October." http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1550000/1550366.stm That's not the only rumour coming out of Pakistan : "Reuters news agency quoted a Pakistani army captain as saying the Taliban had moved a large number of weapons, including missiles, to positions near the Pakistani border." http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1549000/1549700.stm

Who would've ever thought watching Dave Letterman would be a gut-wrenching experience as it was last night. And to see Dan Rather break down twice. Really makes you wonder how those newscasters have managed over the past week. It's apparent to me that, in working 18+ hrs a day, they've been unable to deal with it on a personal level.

Dan Rather is human. He's 70 years old. Taliban declares a jihad against the US: "I would like to tell my people that our jihad will be formally resuming against the Americans," the deputy chairman of the Taliban Council of Ministers, Mullah Mohammad Hasan Akhond, said in a speech broadcast late on Monday. Akhond said it was unimaginable that the "terror attacks" against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon had been committed by the Taliban or by Osama bin Laden. Also from MSNBC: <http://msnbc.com/news/629304.asp?cp1=1

This is just a subjective thought on my part, but I feel strongly about this. I think that bin Laden has a politcal agenda that is much larger than just getting the US out of the Middle East region. He's using religion to "cloak" that agenda. Has anyone thought what he might do if his first objective was ever realized? I think he would then turn his "holy wrath" to Middle Eastern governments who did not agree with him. The first one would probably be Saudi Arabia, since he is supposedly persona non grata there. I feel that his utlimate aim is to create a Middle Eastern theorcracy with himself, his son, or lieutenants at the helm.

I disagree, Toyce. This is Jihad. And it is against the West. The Italian defence minister has made it clear that his armed forces are ready to take part in any action that may be agreed in retaliation against the attacks on the United States. Is Italy the first allied country to offer this? Where are the other allies? Bin Laden has many cells in Europe. The French intelligence discovered a plan to blow up the Eiffel Tower recently and where able to stop it. As Karen has said, in Europe there are many buildings that they could blow up but not as many people would die because they are not skyscapers. The Vatican on Sunday when the Pope holds his outdoor mass. That would be disastrous. Italy is on high alert.

Terry, you miss my point. (Moon) As Karen has said, in Europe there are many buildings that they could blow up but not as many people would die because they are not skyscapers. You also miss my point.

You also miss my point. It's two against one, Karen. ;-) So will you leave us hanging?

re toyce's comment, I read one explanation about Bin Laden's actions that said something like (and I paraphrase) its not as simple as a Holy War because he's not just anti the west, he's anti other Muslim nations who don't agree with his particular brand of totalitarianism. Dunno if that's right, but it does make a bit of sense in the light of his exile from Saudi Arabia. the thing that puzzles me is, he's said to be so phenomenally rich, where did all that dosh come from? And maybe I'm being dim here, but isn't a contradiction in terms to be a multi-millionaire and be anti capitalism?

Rachael. I doubt he can explain it either.

(Moon) As Karen has said, in Europe there are many buildings that they could blow up but not as many people would die because they are not skyscapers. (Karen) You also miss my point. I get your point. Moon, did you see my last post? These terrorists were not merely after mass casualties.

Moon, did you see my last post? I did. And I agree with you, Eileen. The Twin Towers were a symbol as the Eiffel Tower and the Vatican are. Had the Twin Towers been struck later in the day the casulaties would have been higher. I do think that countries would have a stroger reaction to deaths of their citizens rather than the destruction of a symbolic building empty. The worse case is for both at once as in the Twin Towers or God forbid, the outdoor mass at the Vatican. Hugh stadiums in Europe have also become symbols and that is why I used that example yesterday.

Europe may not have as many huge skyscrapers as we do over here, but they do have some. A hit on Canary Wharf in London for example, would probably result in thousands of deaths. However, to Londoners, that is just a very tall building. It lacks the national symolism that a hit on something like Buckingham Palace would have. Jeez, I can't believe I am sitting here calming talking about blowing up buildings as if I'm playing battleships or something....this is all very weird. Rachael....bin Laden is the son of a Saudi construction billionaire. His father was the Donald Trump of the Arab world in the 40's and 50's and is/was filthy rich. His family in Saudi Arabia have apparantly long since disowned him, but we presume he was still able to get his hands on some of the family loot, to use for his evil purposes.

Quite right, Eileen and Beth, the targets had to be symbolic (financial evils or government evils), with loss of life secondary. That's why the Eiffel Tower hardly qualifies or a mere football stadium. (Moon) Had the Twin Towers been struck later in the day the casulaties would have been higher. Ensuring the timing of the attack was first and foremost, as opposed to hitting the towers at peak occupancy. They did that by using the first transcontinental flights of the day where the likelihood of delays was minimized. All the planes had to be in the air at approximately the same time and not sitting on runways waiting for approval to take off.

Rob, thanks for your eloquence as usual. Nothing is as deadly as a "holy War" whhx makes it so terrifying. From the crusdades onward ([probably before that, too) we have fought over which of Abraham's sons was his rightful heir. We have missed God in all this infighting. Tha same Father but human sons who continue to perpetuate animosity and death in His name. The West will certainly suffer. What can be done other than arguing with former friends and wringing hands. It is not time to be divisive. Surely our survival supercedes all the little dlaws one sees in the other's interpretations of all that is too horrible to contemplate. God help us even if you don't believe...

(Karen) All the planes had to be in the air at approximately the same time and not sitting on runways waiting for approval to take off. Yet for all their in-depth research, the terrorists couldn't get the flight from Newark in the air with the others. It pulled away from the gate at 8-ish (same as the other flights) but waited in line for takeoff for more than 30 mins. This type of delay is so common at EWR one has to wonder if this was built into their plan or if it had an effect on the outcome. I get a strange sense of comfort from the latter. I also read or heard early flights were likely selected because they were relatively empty--less passengers to control.

(Karen), That's why the Eiffel Tower hardly qualifies That is a symbol of the industrial revolution, which in a sense started us on this Godless path. I would say it is a symbol.

(Moon)Is Italy the first allied country to offer this? Where are the other allies? This is long, but an excellent round-up of countries and reactions. Key Nations' Reactions to Attacks Tuesday September 18 9:32 AM ET Countries Take Action on US Attacks By The Associated Press, International actions and events connected with the U.S. campaign to find and punish those responsible for attacks on New York and Washington. EUROPE: - ALBANIA: Declared it stood on the side of the United States and its Western allies in the fight against terrorism, offered use of Albanian airspace, ports and airports to the United States and its allies. - AUSTRIA: Chancellor Wolfgang Schuessel said his country would allow the use of Austrian airspace and provide whatever support it can, but Austrian soldiers would not become involved in military action because that is banned by Austria's constitution. - BELARUS: President Alexander Lukashenko, who had often lashed out at the United States, sent his condolences to the American people. Belarus did not join Russia and other European nations in observing a moment of silence last week, and some officials said the terror attacks had been prompted by arrogant U.S. policies. - BELGIUM: Organized an anti-terrorist sweep following the attacks, holding two suspects on charges of possible involvement in planning an attack on U.S. interests in Europe. As current president of the European Union (news - web sites), it has also played host to emergency meetings of EU foreign ministers to show support for the United States. - BOSNIA: Stepped up security for U.S. citizens and property. ``This country will offer any kind of assistance the United States government may ask for,'' said Foreign Ministry spokesman Amer Kapetanovic. - BRITAIN: Urged its citizens to leave parts of Pakistan amid fears that U.S. retaliation might target neighboring Afghanistan (news - web sites). Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites), who has pledged British support for U.S. action against the terrorists, called President Bush (news - web sites)'s handling of the attack and its aftermath ``absolutely right'' and praised the U.S. administration's consultations with allies. BRITAIN: The Bank of England cut its key lending rate by 0.25 percentage points to 4.75 percent as part of a coordinated global effort to boost consumer borrowing and spending in the wake of last week's terrorist attacks. Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) spoke by telephone with Chinese President Jiang Zemin (news - web sites) in an effort to build support for international action. BULGARIA: Prime Minister Simeon Saxcoburggotski pledged support for an international campaign against terror. Foreign Minister Solomon Pasi said his country, which is applying for NATO (news - web sites) membership, was ``ready to act as a (virtual) NATO ally'' in the campaign. -CROATIA: Supports United States against terrorism. However, Prime Minister Ivica Racan expressed concerns Monday that the European Union countries may now seek to impose tougher measures on their borders to prevent entry of potential terrorists, isolating non-members, including Croatia. CZECH REPUBLIC: Security was increased at the country's airports and other sensitive points such as nuclear power plants and dams. All unscheduled flights were forbidden. The government expressed its full support to the United States for military action against the terrorists. - DENMARK: As a NATO member, Denmark supports a joint action against terrorism, and the government asked intelligence agencies to track down possible supporters in Denmark. The Faeroe Islands and Greenland, both semiautonomous Danish territories, sent letters of condolence late Tuesday and held two minutes of silence on Friday. - ESTONIA: Was quick to condemn the airborne attacks, and the Foreign Ministry said the nation was ``prepared to provide to the United States any assistance within the scope of its capabilities.'' Estonia and its Baltic neighbors Latvia and Lithuania also expressed concerns that the crisis might put NATO enlargement on the back burner. FINLAND: Has beefed up security at borders, airports and outside embassies and increased air surveillance. Prime Minister Paavo Lipponen said ``the likelihood of terrorist attacks against Finland or Finnish targets abroad is very small.'' - FRANCE: Defense Minister Alain Richard said France was confident the United States would react responsibly to last week's terror attacks, but he cautioned against using force alone to retaliate. ``We must use it in a way that doesn't provoke other elements of instability,'' he said. - GEORGIA: Officials have said they were ready to offer any help to the United States in its efforts to find and punish the perpetrators of the attacks. - GERMANY: Interior Minister Otto Schily called for a review of ``our entire intelligence strategy'' after three men who lived quietly in Hamburg for years were implicated in the terror attacks in the United States. - GREECE: Pledged its full support to American and European Union actions to combat terrorism. Greece plays host to a large U.S. Navy (news - web sites) base on the island of Crete. Ministers and officials have also begun re-evaluating security measures for the 2004 Olympics, to be held in Athens. - HUNGARY: Expressed solidarity with the people of the United States and full support for the fight against terrorism. ``The essential thing is that the political readiness is there; we are supportive of the victims and will do our part in the struggle to eradicate terrorism,'' Foreign Minister Janos Martonyi said. - ICELAND: Foreign Minister Halldor Asgrimsson said the airport at Keflavik was available for any U.S. operations. - IRELAND: Prime Minister Bertie Ahern has said America would be justified in retaliating, so long as the military action fell within the United Nations (news - web sites)' definition of self-defense. He said a large-scale attack on Afghanistan would be wrong: ``It's an easy thing to bomb territories where people are in famine. But that will not do much to crush international terrorism.'' - ITALY: Has vowed an ``all-out battle against terrorist organizations,'' adding, ``we must concentrate our forces now in the Atlantic Alliance ... and the European Union.'' Italy's Supreme Defense Council - consisting of the country's president, prime minister and top Cabinet ministers - convened an emergency session Friday for the first time since Libya fired missiles toward the Sicilian island of Lampedusa in 1986. - LATVIA - Condemned the attacks, and has said it will back any U.S. response. Defense forces were put on alert and security was tightened around the U.S. and Israeli embassies. - LIECHTENSTEIN: The Banking Federation said it will consider setting up a task force to investigate whether the country's financial institutions were used by anyone with terrorist links, but it says there is no evidence of this so far. - LITHUANIA - President Valdas Adamkus, a former American citizen, was visiting Washington during the attacks and spoke on national television about seeing the Pentagon (news - web sites) burn. He said his countrymen had to think about how they could aid the United States. ``Until now, we have always tended to think only that America needed to protect us,'' Adamkus said. - THE NETHERLANDS: Dutch police, with the Belgians, stepped up a joint operation against suspected members of Muslim radical groups. Rotterdam police took four men into custody on Thursday. Prime Minister Wim Kok, while lending full support to the fight against terrorism, was one of the first to caution the U.S. administration to be mindful of ``democratic values.'' - NORWAY: Strongly condemned ``evil put into a system'' and backs its ally the United States through NATO. - POLAND: President Aleksander Kwasniewski and Prime Minister Jerzy Buzek have appealed for a concerted international effort in fighting terrorism, and pledged to fully participate in any NATO action. - PORTUGAL: Has pledged total cooperation with the United States in all areas, including military support for a retaliation. Portugal next year takes over the presidency of the 55-nation Organization for Security and Cooperation (news - web sites) in Europe and says the fight against international terrorism will be a priority. Portugal has tightened security at airports, embassies and U.S. companies. - SLOVAKIA: Prime Minister Mikulas Dzurinda has condemned the terrorist attacks and expressed Slovakia's determination to support the United States and NATO in all actions against terrorism around the world. - SLOVENIA: President Milan Kucan, in a letter to the U.S. president, declared his country's support in the fight against terrorism. - SPAIN: Defense Minister Federico Trillo said U.S. forces could use Spanish military bases for any retaliation. - SWEDEN: Swedish Prime Minister Goeran Persson canceled the so-called Progressive Summit of 14 center-left leaders that was to have been held in Stockholm on Sept. 14-15. The Swedish government also has expressed concerns about a backlash against Muslims, meeting with Islamic leaders and stepping up security around Stockholm's mosque. - SWITZERLAND: Switzerland, which had already frozen all bank accounts linked to Afghanistan's ruling Taliban, said one of the suspected hijackers of the planes used in Tuesday's attacks bought two knives in Switzerland using a credit card. One Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s many siblings, a half-brother who has distanced himself from the exile Saudi, has lived in Geneva since 1973. - TURKEY: Would allow the use of Incirlik air base for a possible military response. Incirlik is the base used by U.S. and British warplanes enforcing a no-fly zone over northern Iraq and was a launching pad for U.S. attacks on Iraq during the Gulf War (news - web sites). - RUSSIA: Russian President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) ordered a nationwide moment of silence for victims of the attacks, offered help in rescue efforts and called for a global effort to uproot international terrorism. At the same time, Russia, where one of every seven residents is Muslim, is unlikely to risk internal unrest by joining any U.S. retaliation. Russian officials have also made it clear that Moscow does not want former Soviet republics in Central Asia to be used as bases for such operations. - UKRAINE: Called for a coordinated international fight against terrorism. The parliament called the attacks on the United States a ``challenge to all of civilized humanity.'' - YUGOSLAVIA: Leaders declared support for a global fight against terrorism. But with memories of the 1999 NATO air war against Yugoslavia still fresh, officials have not openly supported a possible U.S. campaign against suspected perpetrators. AFRICA= ANGOLA: Condemned the attacks and expressed its sympathy with the victims' families. Elite police were stationed outside the U.S. Embassy in Luanda. - BURKINA FASO - President Blaise Compaore expressed sympathy for the American people. ``Burkina Faso condemns these terrorist attacks in the same way it condemns all forms of terrorism,'' he said. - BURUNDI - President Pierre Buyoya expressed his condolences to all Americans, especially those living in Burundi. - CAMEROON - President Paul Biya sent a letter to President Bush offering condolences over ``the horrifying tragedy.'' Security has been tightened around Western diplomatic missions in Cameroon, with traffic diverted around the U.S. Embassy. - CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC - The government condemned the attacks and sent two Cabinet ministers to sign a condolence book at the U.S. Embassy. Security has been tightened at the embassy and at the international airport. - ETHIOPIA: Offered condolences and condemned the attack. - GHANA: Said it was ready to help hunt down those responsible. ``We consider the attacks as a strike against humanity and civilization all over the world,'' Foreign Affairs Minister Hackman Owusu-Agyemang said. - GUINEA: President Lansana Conte expressed sympathy over the attacks on a visit to the U.S. Embassy, where security was tightened. - IVORY COAST - President Laurent Gbagbo condemned ``with the utmost firmness these acts, which no human reason could possibly justify.'' Security was tightened at the U.S. Embassy and extra soldiers deployed at the international airport. - KENYA - President Daniel arap Moi offered condolences, but appealed for restraint. Security at Nairobi's main airport was tightened. Moi said Kenya would join the international fight against terrorism because of the U.S. Embassy bombing in Kenya in 1998. - LIBERIA - Liberia said it was prepared to join an international coalition against terrorism and declared three days of national mourning. ``Today the hands of evil have struck America,'' President Charles Taylor said at a prayer service. ``Tomorrow it could be any other nation.'' - LIBYA: Leader Moammar Gadhafi condemned the attacks, called on Muslim aid agencies to offer support for the victims and said the United States had the right to take revenge, but asked ``will this put an end to the problem?'' ``There is nothing in Afghanistan,'' and if the United States occupies Afghanistan, ``it will not be in its interests,'' he said. - MADAGASCAR: Prime Minister Tantely Andrianarivo condemned the attacks, saying the people of Madagascar stand in solidarity with the American people and its government. Madagascar has provided additional police and military security personnel to help protect U.S. government buildings. - MALAWI: President Bakili Muzuli, a Muslim, described the attacks as acts of ``barbarism'' and said they went against the teachings of Islam. ``We all worship God to go to heaven and we cannot kill in order to go there,'' he said. - MAURITANIA - Government spokesman Rachid Ould Saleh condemned ``these horrible attacks.'' - MOZAMBIQUE: Mozambique condemned the attack and expressed solidarity with the United States. President Joaquim Chissano urged the United States to think first before reacting and to be responsible in its actions. - NAMIBIA: President Sam Nujoma condemned the ``cowardly terrorist attack,'' and said the world should reaffirm its commitment to peace and ``to strengthen the fight against all forms of international terrorism.'' - NIGERIA - While a few radical Muslims initially celebrated the attacks, most Muslim and Christian groups mourned the U.S. deaths. President Olusegun Obasanjo promised support for measures to bring the terrorists to justice. - REPUBLIC OF CONGO - President Denis Sassou-Nguesso offered to help bring those responsible to justice. ``All people of the world have to organize themselves to fight terrorism and enable the values of peace, freedom and development to triumph,'' he said. - RWANDA - President Paul Kagame expressed ``deepest condolences'' to Americans, their leaders ``and the families who lost their loved ones, at this hour of profound national catastrophe.'' - SAO TOME and PRINCIPE: The two-island nation off West Africa encouraged the United States to fight the perpetrators of the ``barbaric'' attacks. Elite troops were placed on guard at the port, airport and Voice of America offices. - SIERRA LEONE: President Ahmed Tejan Kabbah said his government and people ``hope and pray that the almighty God will give the injured people speedy recovery and the bereaved families succor and solace in this period of grief.'' - SOMALIA: President Abdiqasim Salad Hassan expressed his condolences for the attack. - SOUTH AFRICA: President Thabo Mbeki offered humanitarian support to help the United States. Foreign Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma said the United States' reaction should be focused and should not entail war against countries. Countries should instead work together to root out terrorism, he said. - SWAZILAND: Prime Minister Sibusiso Dlamini condemned the ``monstrous acts'' and sent condolences to the victims. ``But as in war ... we must carry on in our work, striving to ensure that good triumphs (over) evil.'' - SUDAN: President Omar el-Bashir's Islamic government has been treated as an international pariah for the last 10 years, but was quick to condemn the attacks on Washington and New York. A Foreign Ministry statement said Sudan ``rejects all kinds of violence.'' El-Bashir said the attacks showed that no nation, even the powerful United States, was completely secure. - TANZANIA - President Benjamin Mkapa condemned the attacks, and the Foreign Ministry issued a statement saying, ``We sincerely hope that the perpetrators of this heinous crime will be tracked down, apprehended and brought to justice.'' In 1998, Tanzania was the site of one of the twin U.S. Embassy bombings linked to bin Laden. - UGANDA - President Yoweri Museveni offered condolences and condemned the attack. ``The Ugandan government has always been warning the world about the actions of terrorists which are always either cowardly or misguided,'' he said. - ZAMBIA: President Frederick Chiluba promised his country would ``stand with the United States to fight international terrorism for preservation of Christian values and democracy.'' - ZIMBABWE: President Robert Mugabe wrote to President Bush expressing horror at the attacks and his people's solidarity with America. The attacks appeared to be the work of ``the most remorseless and hardened enemies of the United States government and people, and indeed, of all the peace-loving people of the wider world,'' he wrote. MIDDLE EAST= BAHRAIN: The crown prince, Sheik Salman bin Hamad Al Khalifa condemned the attacks as ``unjustifiable under any conditions.'' The island nation, home base to the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet, has close ties to the United States. Sheik Salman said Bahrain hasn't received any requests from Washington, but ``in a time of need, we stand by our friends.'' - CYPRUS: President Glafcos Clerides has expressed support for action against terrorists. Government protested formally to the United States that a claim by former NATO commander Wesley Clark that Cyprus sheltered terrorists ``is absolutely unfounded and violates truth and real facts.'' - EGYPT: President Hosni Mubarak (news - web sites) denounced the attacks as ``horrible and unimaginable,'' and that they ``led to the deaths of many innocent civilians.'' Mubarak also repeated his call for holding an international conference for combating terrorism. Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Maher reiterated Egypt's full cooperation with United States in the investigation. EGYPT: The Arab Organization for Human Rights warned that some of the language used by U.S. leaders after the terrorist attacks was fueling assaults on Arab-Americans. The human rights group singled out the term ``crusade'' - used by President Bush (news - web sites) to describe what he said would be a new kind of war against evil. The group also accused U.S. authorities of focusing suspicions solely on Arabs and Muslims. - IRAN: Iran, an opponent of Afghanistan's Taliban leaders, closed its 562-mile border to prevent Afghan refugees from crossing in the event of U.S. attacks. The U.S. State Department has said it would consider welcoming Iran into an international coalition to fight terrorism. Iran has not indicated that it would join. - IRAQ: Said attacks resulted from aggressive U.S. policies, and said Americans should feel and learn from the pain they have inflicted on other people, including Iraqis and Palestinians. Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) urged United States to use wisdom, rather than force, in responding to attacks. - ISRAEL: President Bush pressured Israel to hold truce talks with the Palestinians as America seeks to build an international anti-terror coalition that would include Arab countries. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) compared Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) to Osama bin Laden and said he would permit high-level talks only after 48 hours without violence. Sharon said Monday that Israel had been invited to join the anti-terror coalition. - KUWAIT: Defense minister Sheik Jaber Mubarak Al Sabah pledged to work ``hand in hand'' with Washington to eliminate terrorism. Politically strong Muslim fundamentalist groups also condemned the attacks but said the world should not forget the ``suffering of our Palestinian brothers from Jewish terrorism.'' - LEBANON: Has condemned the attacks, from President Emile Lahoud down to leaders of political and religious groups. Prime Minister Rafik Hariri said Wednesday he would support U.S. action against those proven to be the perpetrators. The Hezbollah guerrilla group has expressed regret for the loss of life, but warned against ``taking advantage of the attacks to practice aggression and terrorism against those who committed aggression and terrorism.'' - OMAN: Oman's leader, Sultan Qaboos, condemned the attacks and said his country would stand ``side by side'' with the United States to fight terrorism. A Foreign Ministry statement said Oman is ready to cooperate in the U.S. effort, but did not say what type of cooperation it would offer. - QATAR: Foreign Minister Sheik Hamad bin Jassim bin Jabr Al Thani said in a telephone call Friday with Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) that Qatar condemned the attacks and is willing to cooperate in fighting terrorism. However, Qatar has not said whether it would join any anti-terrorism coalition, - SAUDI ARABIA: Said it will cooperate fully with the United States on its investigation into the attacks. It has condemned the attacks, but said they are partly the result of U.S. foreign policy, particularly in the Middle East. - UNITED ARAB EMIRATES: The United Arab Emirates has condemned the attacks, has offered to help the United States fight terrorism and has launched an investigation to determine whether an Emirati national, Marwan Alshehhi, is the same man that German police have said is one of the 19 suspects in the attacks. Emirates President Sheik Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan warned in a letter to NATO ambassadors that without a solution to Middle East conflict, terrorism cannot be eradicated. - YEMEN: Foreign Minister Abubakr al-Qirbi said his country rejects terrorism ``and Yemen will cooperate in fighting terrorism.'' Yemen has said it would be willing to join an international coalition to fight terrorism, but only under the umbrella of an international organization such as the United Nations. SUBCONTINENT/CENTRAL ASIA AFGHANISTAN: The Taliban leaders have refused to hand over the prime suspect, Osama bin Laden. The Taliban said they were fortifying bunkers and installations in preparation for a possible U.S. military response. Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar received the support of senior clerics. All foreigners were ordered to leave, and many Afghans began to flee. - ARMENIA: Condemned the attacks and offered to send salvage experts to the United States. Armenian officials have called for coordination of international efforts to fight terrorism. - AZERBAIJAN: Azerbaijani President Geidar Aliev denounced the attacks as ``the most monstrous event in modern history,'' ordered a nationwide mourning for its victims and offered his nation's help in tracking down the organizers of the attacks. - INDIA: Intelligence officials said they have given the United States information about Islamic extremists in Afghanistan and Pakistan, including evidence describing how bin Laden and other Muslim militant leaders were financing guerrilla groups and running training camps. - KAZAKSTAN: Kazakstan, the largest of the former Soviet republics in Central Asia, has condemned the attacks and sent condolences to Washington. But officials have been nervous about possible U.S. strikes in Afghanistan, fearing they would destabilize the region and trigger a flow of refugees. KAZAKSTAN: The former Soviet republics of Kazakstan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan in Central Asia agreed to cooperate with the United States in fighting terrorism. Kyrgyzstan said if requested, it would ``supply the FBI (news - web sites) with all materials it is interested in,'' while Uzbekistan said it was willing to discuss all forms of cooperation including the deployment of U.S. forces. Tajikistan said it was ready to cooperate with the Americans. - KYRGYZSTAN: Kyrgyzstan, separated from Afghanistan by a thin swath of mountainous Tajikistan, expressed condolences to the United States and called for stronger action against international terrorism. Officials have made no commitments to assist the United States. - PAKISTAN: Declared its ``full support'' for U.S. retaliation against the Taliban, and was sending a high-level delegation to Kandahar on Monday to demand the Taliban hand over bin Laden to the United States or risk a massive retaliatory assault. Hard-line Muslims, who oppose Pakistani cooperation with the United States, demonstrated nationwide. - TAJIKISTAN: Ruled out the possibility of launching any Western-led reprisal attacks from its territory, which borders northern Afghanistan. Prime Minister Akil Akilov had indicated he might consider a U.S. request to provide air corridors, but only with approval from Russia and the international community. - TURKMENISTAN: Turkmenistan, which borders Afghanistan, has condemned the terror attacks and offered support to the United States. However, President Saparmurat Niyazov has been noncommittal about any possible assistance to the United States for staging strikes on Afghanistan. - RUSSIA: Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered a nationwide moment of silence for victims of the attacks and called for a global effort to uproot international terrorism. At the same time, Russia, where one of every seven residents is Muslim, is unlikely to risk internal unrest by joining any U.S. retaliation. Russian officials have also made it clear that Moscow does not want former Soviet republics in Central Asia to be used as bases for such operations. RUSSIA: Chairman of the Russian parliament's foreign relations committee told the U.S. ambassador he opposes letting United States use bases in Central Asia for the fight against terrorism because he fears the Americans may stay. A U.S. delegation begins talks Wednesday with Russian officials on how to combat terrorism. UZBEKISTAN: The Foreign Ministry said Monday that it was ready ``to discuss any form of cooperation in the struggle against international terrorism in our region, including the deployment of U.S. forces.'' The predominantly Muslim nation, which borders Afghanistan, has itself faced attacks by Islamic extremists allegedly linked with the Taliban. ASIA/PACIFIC= AUSTRALIA: Agreed to a U.S. request to keep its frigate HMAS Anzac stationed in the Persian Gulf for eight days longer than planned. It had been due to leave the area, where it had been enforcing sanctions against Iraq, on Sunday. Australia has invoked its defense treaty with the United States, clearing the way for military participation in any U.S. retaliatory strikes. - BRUNEI: Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah, absolute ruler of the tiny, oil-rich enclave on Borneo island in Southeast Asia, expressed shock and sent a message of condolence to President Bush. - CHINA: President Jiang Zemin (news - web sites) called Bush a day after the attacks to express condolences and say China wanted to collaborate with the United States on anti-terrorism activities. A deputy foreign minister said China wanted to be consulted before Washington or NATO countries took any military action outside their territories. - INDONESIA: President Megawati Sukarnoputri condemned the attacks before she left Monday for the United States to meet Bush and address the U.N. General Assembly. Indonesia is the world's most populous Muslim nation, where some hard-line Islamic groups are waging separatist conflicts that threaten the secular government. - JAPAN: The Japanese government pledged to help the United States in its war against terrorism ``in whatever way we can.'' The nation's pacifist constitution prohibits it from engaging in offensive military action, but Tokyo has promised help with transport and medical operations. - MALAYSIA: Security has been tightened at the world's tallest buildings, the Petronas Twin Towers, after a bomb scare. Government officials promise to investigate reports that one of the hijackers who crashed a plane into the Pentagon met a suspect in the USS Cole (news - web sites) attack at the Kuala Lumpur's airport in October. Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad warned against retaliatory violence, saying the result will be more terror. - SOUTH KOREA: Observed a national day of mourning on Friday. South Korean President Kim Dae-jung (news - web sites) said the two Koreas should issue a joint statement against terrorism in reconciliation talks now under way in Seoul. The North has not commented on the proposal. - TAIWAN: President Chen Shui-bian offered to ``provide any necessary assistance'' to the United States against terrorism. Chen ordered security to be stepped up at airports, ports and nuclear plants, and appointed a panel to study how the attacks would affect the world's economy. - THAILAND: Pledged to help the United States ``just as we did in the past.'' During the Gulf War against Iraq, Thailand was used by U.S. military aircraft as a refueling stop. The government has pledged to exchange intelligence on terrorists and will support any United Nations resolution against terrorism. - VIETNAM: President Tran Duc Luong sent a message to Bush expressing shock at the attacks. ``Vietnam consistently rejects terrorist actions which cause loss of life and suffering to civilians,'' he said. THE AMERICAS= ARGENTINA: The only South American country with a special status in NATO has fully backed the United States in its promised war on terrorism. Argentina committed troops to the Gulf War a decade ago, but has not yet specified what form of support it would provide. - BOLIVIA - The Bolivian government issued a statement offering its support to the United States after the terrorist attacks. Most Bolivians condemned the attacks, though certain union leaders, including Indian leader and former guerrilla Felipe Quispe, have said that the ``imperialist'' politics of the United States led to them. - BRAZIL: Proposed that the Organization of American States formalize support for the United States under a 1947 treaty that considers an armed attack on any member as an attack on all. Foreign Minister Celso Lafer said that for now the support was diplomatic and not military, but he declined to say whether Brazil would endorse an eventual U.S. military response. - CANADA: Will be part of a ``global response to a global threat,'' Prime Minister Jean Chretien said Monday, but he has so far refused to commit Canadian troops to any ground fighting. Opposition leader Stockwell Day of the Canadian Alliance said, ``If and when the need arises for military action ... we must be willing and we must be prepared to provide it.'' - CHILE: Condemned the attacks and expressed firm support for the United States, though cautioning that any response should be within the frame of international law and avoid harm to innocent people. - COLOMBIA: President Andres Pastrana prayed for the victims in a chapel in the presidential palace. Just as the global drug scourge cannot be defeated without every country's cooperation, all nations have a ``shared responsibility'' to combat terrorism, Pastrana said. Firefighters in Cali and Medellin also marched or prayed in support of New York City firefighters. - COSTA RICA: Foreign Minister Roberto Rojas announced on Friday that Costa Rica, which holds the presidency of the Permanent Council of the Organization of American States, will convene a meeting of the council in Washington on Wednesday to analyze the repercussions of the attacks. - CUBA: Cuban President Fidel Castro (news - web sites) condemned the attacks and offered medical assistance to the United States. He also cautioned against getting ``caught up in the desire'' for revenge. - ECUADOR: Police and army intelligence are investigating the possible presence of Osama bin Laden's Al-Qaeda terrorist organization within the country, Foreign Minister Heinz Moeller said Monday. - EL SALVADOR - President Francisco Flores condemned the attack and suspended all Independence Day celebrations. The Congress declared three days of national mourning, and Flores said that ``anything El Salvador (news - web sites) can do to collaborate (in the investigations) it will do.'' - GUATEMALA - The Guatemalan government declared three days of mourning and lowered flags at government buildings to half-staff. President Alfonso Portillo condemned the attacks in his annual Independence Day speech on Saturday and said he supported the international fight against terrorism and organized crime. - HONDURAS - Seven Central American countries are tentatively scheduled to meet in Honduras on Wednesday to adopt a common strategy against terrorism in the wake of the New York attacks, the Honduran government announced Monday. Honduran officials said their country ``is most willing to participate in the fight against terrorism.'' - MEXICO - Fresh from a visit to Washington, President Vicente Fox (news - web sites) said his country is ``ready to collaborate with all those countries in a proposed alliance to fight this evil.'' Foreign Secretary Jorge Castaneda told the Mexican Congress that the United States ``has every right and reason to seek reprisal'' and that ``we can't deny them our support.'' - NICARAGUA - The Nicaraguan government said it deplored the attacks and promised to lend whatever help was necessary to fight terrorism within the framework of the Interamerican Reciprocal Assistance Treaty, a mutual defense treaty for the Western Hemisphere. The government said it also would help with the investigations in whatever way possible. - PANAMA: Reinforced protection of the Panama Canal, the U.S. Embassy, oil refineries and the main airport. President Mireya Moscoso sent the U.S. government a message of support and solidarity. - PARAGUAY - Paraguay has stepped up controls along its borders with Brazil and Argentina, a thriving trade corridor that is home to a large Arab community. The area has been suspected in the past of being a conduit for shadowy Islamic groups. - PERU: President Alejandro Toledo expressed support for the United States against the ``demented'' terrorist attacks that affect ``not only the United States but also the democratic conviction of the world.'' Foreign Minister Diego Garcia Sayan pressed for an emergency meeting of the Organization of American States to adopt a resolution backing all measures in the fight against global terrorism. - URUGUAY: Foreign Secretary Didier Opertti says Uruguay ``will support the collective decisions taken because it understands that this aggression is not just an aggression against the United States, but against the lifestyle of our countries.'' - VENEZUELA: President Hugo Chavez said OPEC (news - web sites) member Venezuela would do ``everything possible'' to guarantee steady oil supplies. He appealed to President Bush not to wage a ``World War III'' that could trigger global, even nuclear, conflict. Defense Minister Jose Vicente Rangel said Venezuela could cooperate in U.S.-led military action but won't promise ``carte blanche'' help in a conflict with Muslim nations, with which Venezuela maintains ties based on oil. MORE: CHINA: China pledged to join the United States and the world in considering ``any proposals'' to eliminate terrorism but stressed that retaliation should be weighed carefully and follow international law. China expressed its willingness to discuss at the U.N. Security Council any proposals against terrorism. FRANCE: President Jacques Chirac was scheduled to meet Tuesday evening with Bush at the White House. Chirac has said the French would be ``totally supportive'' in the fight against terrorism once those responsible for the U.S. attacks are identified. Prime Minister Lionel Jospin cautioned that France would need support from its parliament before engaging in retaliatory action for the attacks. IRAQ: President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) said the United States was using the Sept. 11 attacks as a pretext to settle old scores with Muslim countries. He also accused Washington of using ``sheer terrorism and blackmail'' against several countries to force them to support its campaign. JAPAN: Japan's central bank lowered its key interest rate from 0.25 percent to 0.10 percent, a largely symbolic gesture of solidarity with the United States and Europe, and took other measures to make more money available in the market. Japan's ruling coalition also outlined a new push to allow the country's military to help guard U.S. bases in Japan, while a top Japanese official said his nation should provide logistical support and medical services, not just monetary aid. -

excellent and useful summary, thanks suzee UK news today has been reporting Blair doing major diplomatic stuff to get countries to agree to united action (in particular 6 African states, and China); also that he will be in the US to meet Bush on Thursday, clear implication being discussing military action. Top brass military have apparently been in Downing St. what hasn't been on the news, but I'm not the only one noticing it, a couple of friends have said the same in other parts of the country, there's been lots more movement of military aircraft around here the last couple of days than would be normal.

ITS HARD TO BELIEVE WE HAVE CRETINS LIKE THIS IN BUSINESS IN AMERICA People like what? People like one Bill Schrempf. He's the CEO of NCCI Holdings, Inc. in Boca Raton, Florida. NCCI is a company that compiles workers compensation insurance data. How exciting. They have about 850 employes in its Boca Raton offices. It seems that some of the NCCI employees are proud of their heritage and proud of their country. In the wake of the terrorist attack some of these NCCI employees decided that they wanted to display an American flag on their desks. At that point the dynamic Bill Schrempf swung into action. The orders went out to his managers and they immediately fanned out throughout the workplace confiscating the American flags. Schrempf, it seems, is afraid that some of the workers in the NCCI offices might find the display offensive. So, NCCI boss Bill Schrempf finds himself in the same rouges gallery as John Smeaton, the vice provost of student affairs at Lehigh University in Pennsylvania. Smeaton ordered flags removed from campus busses for fear that foreign students might be (gasp!!!!) offended!!! The one difference between Lehigh and NCCI is that at Lehigh there was someone above Smeaton who actually possessed an ounce of sense and some feelings of patriotism. Smeaton's order was countered in minutes. At NCCI Schrempf is the boss! There IS nobody above him (unless the Board of Directors calls a quick meeting.) How's this for a workplace rule. Nobody works here who is offended by the American Flag. Period. If the American Flag offends you then you are a virtual cancer in this workplace. Pack your stuff and don't let the door knob hit you in the ass on your way out. Let me put it another way. If I have a flag on my desk and you try to confiscate it because you are offended -- then you have a damned good chance to be the subject of one of those statistical records that NCCI collects. DAMN -- this just pisses me off. Sorry, can't hide it. I wish I had the money to buy that company just so I could send Schrempf packing. Now -- it just happens that I don't have any need for a company that compiles workers compensation data. In the interest of all fairness -- since I have slammed Bill Schrempf and his company -- don't you think its only fair that I list the company name and phone number? I mean -- just in case you happen to agree with Bill Schrempf and would like to call and congratulate him! So, for that purpose only .... NCCI HOLDINGS INC 901 PENINSULA CORP CIR BOCA RATON, FL (561)893-1000 And here's a link to the story from the Palm Beach Post. http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/saturday/business_3.html ANY CONNECTION TO THIS NCCI? Last evening (Sunday) I spent a good amount of time trying to find an Internet site for NCCI. No luck. This caused me to expand my search and, with the help of a Nuze reader came with some interesting items. We found two websites this morning. One, ( http://www.ncci.com ) appears to be for the Palm Beach company. The other, ( http://www.ncci.sa.com/ ) is for the NCCI (National Corporation for Cooperative Insurance) that was established by Royal Decree No. M/5 of 17/4/1405H as a Saudi Joint Stock Company. That's right --- a corporation wholly owned by the government of Saudi Arabia. It seems this Saudi Arabian company is in the same business -- insurance. In searching both websites I could find no interlocking references. This doesn't mean no connection exists --- but the coincidence is somewhat amazing. Both with the "NCCI" in their name, both in the insurance business. I wonder who the stockholders of the Palm Beach company are?

Every possible resource has been posted on a special page by Google.com plus important contacts and news sources world wide. http://www.google.com/news/

This page is an excellent resource. I'm going to make it my home page.

marcia, you may post the ribbon in all of our conferences--and terry, can we get it on our main page?

Sure thing!

Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:56:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@vortex.com Subject: The Big Picture? Cc: lauren@pfir.org "You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride." -- Colossus "Colossus: The Forbin Project" (1970) "There seems to be a definite pattern emerging." -- The Psychiatrist (G. Wood) "Harold and Maude" (1971) An interesting pattern does seem to be emerging. I do not suggest that it's the result of a conspiracy, but rather the result of long-term trends that have been self-reinforcing. Still, like the images in a kaleidoscope, complex-appearing structures can seem to easily appear from independent actions. We start with media consolidation on a grand scale. The range of content providers and distribution operations -- TV, cable, newspapers, magazine, Internet, and so on, are primarily in the hands of a tiny cadre of gigantic firms. This consolidation seems likely to continue to even more intense levels. Such concentration of media power provides the ability to present a highly unified message both to the population at large and to Congress through lobbyists. A slogan like CNN's "America's New War" can be applied across a range of related properties and environments, instead of merely being sandwiched between "EnerX" commercials. Next step: Institute a mindset and legal structure that marginalizes all rights to information except those of copyright holders (most of the widely-used content will be under the control of those few media conglomerates we discussed above, of course). The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) helps enormously at this stage to accomplish this goal. Send violators to prison along with the rapists, murderers, and terrorists. Finally, a way to fill those jail cells being emptied out in California from the new "treat drug offenders rather than jail them" program. Gotta keep the momentum going. Outlaw the sale or providing of *everything* --hardware, software, communications, impure thoughts, or what have you-- relating to digital technologies that cannot be directly controlled by those concentrated media forces. The SSSCA (Security Systems Standards and Certification Act) should do nicely. To sweeten the deal, point out that since only SSSCA-approved security systems would be legal, it could provide a dandy mechanism to make the use of strong encryption in the private sector illicit. All that's needed is to ensure that such strong crypto systems are not compatible with the SSSCA-approved mechanisms (or refuse to certify anything that contains those undesirable systems). The approved security system will of course contain the appropriate backdoors for data access by the powers-that-be (and sufficiently resourceful hackers). The level of civil disobedience likely to result will probably be the highest since prohibition, but hey, prohibition didn't have any nasty side-effects that weren't trivial to control, right? And to tie this all up in a nice neat bow, be ready to take advantage of any catastrophe, tragedy, or horror to assert your agenda while emotions run high and knee-jerk reactions are the order of the day. Voila! Mission accomplished. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@pfir.org or lauren@vortex.com or lauren@privacyforum.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Moderator, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy "Reality Reset" Columns - http://www.vortex.com/reality

Subject: [risks] Risks Digest 21.66 Date: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:13 PM From: RISKS List Owner Reply-To: risko@csl.sri.com To: RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Monday 17 September 2001 Volume 21 : Issue 66 FORUM ON RISKS TO THE PUBLIC IN COMPUTERS AND RELATED SYSTEMS (comp.risks) ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy, Peter G. Neumann, moderator ***** See last item for further information, disclaimers, caveats, etc. ***** This issue is archived at and by anonymous ftp at ftp.sri.com, cd risks . Contents: 11 September 2001 in retrospect (PGN) Abridged info on RISKS (comp.risks) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 16:27:43 PDT From: "Peter G. Neumann" Subject: 11 September 2001 in retrospect *********************************** *********************************** ** 11 September 2001 ** *********************************** *********************************** "THE RISKS ARE OBVIOUS." BUT PERHAPS NOT OBVIOUS ENOUGH. 11 September 2001 will be painfully remembered by most of the planet's population for the coordinated hijacking of four jetliners and the ensuing surprise attacks on New York City's World Trade Center and the Pentagon, with thousands of lives lost and enormous consequential after-effects. Our hearts go out to everyone close to those who were so irrevocably affected -- including the crash victims, the firemen and other emergency workers in New York City, and especially the UA93 passengers whose efforts evidently saved the lives of others. We are once again reminded how fragile our lives and civic infrastructures are, and how interdependent we all are. Although violent and sudden large-scale termination of people's lives has previously been all too familiar in many countries of the world, many of us have hitherto largely taken too much for granted. Hopefully, the aftermath of this fateful day will dramatically increase public awareness of some of the vulnerabilities in our lives and risks to our freedom. However, the events should come as no surprise, because many warnings have been widely ignored. For example, the President's Commission on Critical Infrastructure Protection of the previous U.S. Administration identified serious vulnerabilities in telecommunications, electric power and other energy sources, transportation, financial services, emergency services, and government continuity. It noted how interdependent these critical infrastructures are, and how they are all related to information technologies. It also observed difficulties in coordination among and within different infrastructures, and perhaps most relevant, a general lack of public awareness. In many respects, complacency has been seen across the board in response to that report. In addition, the White House Commission on Safety and Security (the Gore Commission) identified many serious risks in aviation. (Also, see my paper , presented at the January 1997 International Conference on Aviation Safety and Security, co-sponsored by that commission and George Washington University.) Various analyses of commercial aviation and air-traffic control over the past 18 years within the Department of Transportation have identified potentially serious vulnerabilities that merit closer attention. More recently, a U.S. General Accounting Office report identified many serious problems in airport security. But, perhaps because the risks and threat levels seemed low, or possibly because institutional bureaucracy is so deeply entrenched, very little action was deemed necessary. Unfortunately, some of the issues recognized therein have now come home to roost. As a society, we in the U.S. seem to be unwilling to take certain prudent precautions -- perhaps because they would cost too much, or be too inconvenient, or would seriously degrade service. Apparently, we suffer from a serious lack of foresight. The Risks Forum has persistently considered risks associated with our technologies and their uses, but we often note that many of the crises and other risk-related problems have resulted from low-tech events, misguided human behavior, or malicious misbehavior. In short, the typical search for high-tech solutions to problems stemming from social, economic, and geopolitical causes has frequently ignored more basic issues. Over-endowing high-tech solutions is riskful in the absence of adequate understanding of the limitations of the technology and the frailties and perversities of human nature. Whereas there are high-tech solutions that might be effective if properly used, we should also be examining some low-tech and no-tech approaches. One pervasive theme in the Risks Forum over the past 16 years has been the ubiquity of systemic vulnerabilities relating to security, reliability, availability, and overall survivability, with respect to human enterprises, society at large, and to systems, applications, and enterprises based on information technologies. Evidently, we still have much to learn. Let us seek to build a better world, and remain true to our human values and constitutional foundations. Also, let us beware of seeming solutions -- technological or otherwise -- that result in further escalation of the risks. Sadly, because of the inherent vulnerabilities in those seeming solutions, we are always at risk, whether we realize it or not. Peter G. Neumann ------------------------------

Subject: To the day Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 11:07 AM From: Womack, Jack As I start to write this, I look at my watch and realize that one week ago, just now, I'd just seen the first tower go down. Here in the new world it seems like a year, two years, a hundred years. Time has taken on a rubbery quality. Toward the end of Burn's The Civil War documentary, years ago, there was a single phrase read aloud; written by either a Yankee or Confederate some time after the war, thinking back on his experience, and I keep hearing it in my head: "Were these things real?" Even as I go through each day, so much of it still refuses to settle into anything remotely resembling reality. Last night we watched Letterman, who was on for the first time after the late news, and it was extremely strange, and vaguely unsettling. He didn't make any jokes, of course, but this most hard-shelled of all contemporary performers revealed depths of sadness, and fear, and uncertainty, and anger; and then Dan Rather came out as his guest and broke down in tears twice. Extremely unreal. Yet, on the other hand, V & I went over to Jersey City late yesterday afternoon to have dinner with her mother and celebrate the new year (praying, as every year, to have one more year). While I expected huge backups at the bus terminal, we somehow managed to hit it right, and got from Port Authority to Summit Ave. in Jersey City in half an hour. On the way, as we went up Palisades Avenue, which runs along the top of the Palisades (which, in this area, are utterly urbanized) and so I saw all of lower Manhattan from the Jersey side, and the absence of the Towers, and the smoke that continues to rise therefrom. That, conversely, now seemed normal. Valeria's mother, who is 68, was extremely happy to see us. Jersey City has a large Arab population (and Indian, and Phillipine, and...) and she was more than usually suspicious -- relating stories of how two had been arrested (I have heard this on the news as well), etc. She's holding up very well, though; of course, this is a woman who grew up in Soviet Russia during the Second World War, and under Stalin, and didn't leave the USSR until 1981, so she's had considerable experience, living life under conditions that are only now beginning to become imaginable. Besides the absence of the Towers from a distance there are many things that are beginning to seem normal to me now. Leaving the house fifteen minutes earlier because my subway now becomes express at 96th, and therefore no longer stops at 50th (unless I transfer). Seeing at least one policeman at every subway station, and many more at the larger stations. Hearing, along with the occasional airplane (I gather airports are becoming rather ghostly, at present), the occasional F-16. Phone service, especially long-distance & cellular, that comes and goes. Police barricades along Fifth, metal barriers at the Channel Gardens at Rockefeller Center, the sight of US flags everywhere, attached to car aerials, hanging from windows, photocopied and taped onto doors. The occasional Army humvee parked on Broadway. New York crowds, thinned out to a level I haven't seen since the late 70s and early 80s, when no one wanted to come to NY on a bet, save for the likes of me and my people. I'd recommend the new New Yorker. The cover is by Spiegelman, and brilliant. In the News, this morning, an article about NY's Afghan restaurants, and how no one is eating at them, and how they're quickly going to go broke; the people who run them are, of course, in nearly all cases immigrants who came here to escape the war during the 80s, or the Taliban since. And the new total of people still missing is a little over 5,400 -- evidently the additional 700 weren't reported until yesterday; I imagine many relatives, companies, etc., were still holding out hope. A friend in Australia has told me 100 Aussies have been killed; a friend in Germany says anywhere up to 200-some Germans were killed; and of course 500 Brits. 100 Russians. And U.S. citizens who, being New Yorkers, were of every possible background, every color and creed. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus.. An attack on Civilization, period. I need to talk to my father again tonight, to see how he is doing. Two weeks ago, tomorrow, my stepmother suddenly died, as you and some others know (she was 52). Her funeral was September 8, and then 3 days later...thoughts of her vanished from my mind, mostly, since last Tuesday, and that makes me feel sad, but even so I can only move forward. I know I didn't come close to processing her death, but at some point I suppose I will -- or maybe I already have, in this new world. I honestly don't know. I'm not as scared today as I was yesterday. I can't imagine this will last; today is Ros Ha'shanah, NY is quiet yet again -- this time, for better reason then has recently been the case -- and, clearly, something is in the air. But I don't know what, and until that something occurs, I can only do what I have been trying to do for some years -- since I came down with the TB, really, back in early 1997; and again, after Jenna died, back in March -- and that is, live one day at a time. The thing is, I have been *trying* to do this; and I think, now, I finally am. It is the most real of all unreal feelings, to be doing so. Jonathan Carroll has just sent the following, which I pass along. Friends, I had an idea today and it may be nuts but maybe not. I know you're all in touch one way or another with people in the computer community worldwide and they're in touch with others, etcetera. Here's my idea, for what it's worth. Computer hackers are often thought of as nasty little shits who fuck up everybody's day for no reason(s) other than to be annoying. But what if for once they put their minds to a real and important task-- what if that hacker community worldwide tried in break to the computer networks of the terrorists? The Greatest Challenge, the greatest "game" ever posed them and any results would be, well, heroic. What if this message or something like it was sent out far and wide to these computer experts? A genuine call to arms to people who believe nothing justifies what was done in New York the other day and now knowledgeable, talented people must do what they can to fight it far and wide. For hackers that means crack their systems, figure out what they're saying, give the results to the people who can put it to good use, etcetera. Do exactly what they've been doing all along--hack the system-- but this time do it for something that means saving lives everywhere. I leave the thought in your hands, Jonathan

*Arthur Kroker Vents His Feelings With Such Untoward Eloquence That They Threaten To Make Common Sense *8-/ Subject: Event-scene 97 - Terrorism of Viral Power Date: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 2:18 PM From: CTHEORY EDITORS Reply-To: CTHEORY EDITORS To: _____________________________________________________________________ CTHEORY THEORY, TECHNOLOGY AND CULTURE VOL 24, NO 3 Event-scene 97 09/18/01 Editors: Arthur and Marilouise Kroker _____________________________________________________________________ Terrorism of Viral Power ======================== ~Arthur and Marilouise Kroker~ The 20th century took place under the sign of nuclear superpower: a cold war with bloc to bloc political confrontations; a military rhetoric of graduated escalating respnses; a strangely comforting illusion of "mutually assured destruction." Deterrence was everywhere. Dissuasion was the code. A bored culture living in the shadowland of apocalypse now. That ended September 11th. The field of power flipped. The triumphant era of the last superpower suddenly gave way to the contagious logic of viral power. In place of the certainty principle of nuclear stalemate, there emerges now the radical uncertainty of the terrorism of micro-power. The always suspended fantaticism of technological holocaust is challenged by the fanaticism of religious zealotry. The logic of deterrence no longer functions. Deterrrence only works in a deadly game in which adversaries have a primary interest in preserving their own lives. Sacrificing one's own life is the first gambit, and real psychological fuel of suicide commandos. Dissuasion is inoperative. Again, the code of dissuasion is intimately linked to a politics founded on preserving territory. However, viral power is terroristic precisely because it occupies only the imaginary territory of symbolic exchange. The religious ecstasy of a sudden, unexpected, devastating strike against the symbolic capital of the American empire: the trinity of the World Trade Center, Pentagon and the airlines of America. The terrorism of the new age of viral power has these symbolic qualities: It is a micro-power, not a superpower. It is low tech, not high tech--and thus invisible to the optical scanners of the ruling technological regime. Paradoxically, the (technological) weakness of viral power is its strength. It is subterranean, secretive--driven by a crusading spirit equal to the religious zeal of the Middle Ages. Breaking the rules of publicity culture, it claims no responsibility and thus speaks clearly to the cultural imagination of the suppressed and powerless everywhere. It is a matter of biological violence, not physics. Flowing invisibly through the rhetorical screen of the 'anti-ballistic missile system,' viral power adopts the strategy of the attacking parasite: invading the body of the host (the American homeland), bleeding its tactical intelligence (those flight schools in Florida), circulating in its commercial bloodstream (American airlines), and imploding in a violent fatal metastasis that has as its aim the infiltration of the mediascape through its apocalyptic effects. Viral power avoids conflict with the real military assests of the host nation because its actual intention is a strategic media strike. Viral power is understandable only in the language of the media: the twin spectacles of sadness and terror; the doubled language of fascination and dread. In the days ahead, the media spectacle will shift to the viral language of rage and revenge. Tragically, the real missiles were those American people taken hostage in the air. The real targets were not hardened missile silos, but the dominant symbols of American power. The real terrorism was the destabilization of the American government. The real war is the coming war on civil liberties as the price for combating terrorism. The real 'ground zero' was provoking America to acts of vengeance that will only fast-feed the future rage of viral power. The scenario of terrorism, then, as a mutating virus that copies itself to American rage on its way to revenge against the host-scapegoat. Viral power goes into the sea, the sky, the earth. It cannot be defeated by the normal methods of nuclear warfare. It can only be copied. The virus of terrorism is about to enter the American bloodstream, taking democracy hostage. Listen to House of Representatives Minority Leader Richard Gephardt: "We are in a new world. We have to rebalance freedom and security. We can't take away people's civil liberties. But we're not going to have all the openness and freedom we have had." The implosion of American democracy, then, as the ultimate objective of the suicide commandos. The 'war on terrorism' may have finally begun, but the first casualty may well be American freedom as it was envisioned before September 11, 2001. _____________________________________________________________________ Arthur and Marilouise Kroker are the editors of CTHEORY.

From: Stewart Brand <sb@gbn.org Subject: not-terrorism Dave, the following set of thoughts is from Kevin Kelly, who spent four months in Afghanistan in the late 70s, more months in northern Pakistan, and a long time in Iran (during its revolution). I think its balanced inquiry might be of interest to IPers. --Stewart Brand The Taliban are kind of like Nazis to the Afghanis, but we should remember that while the Nazis had resistance and passive obedience among the Germans, they also had supporters. And so do the Taliban. But it's true most of the Afghanis, like the Germans, are just getting screwed. The other important point is the the Taliban are not bin Laden, and bin Laden not the Taliban. Bin Laden is a foreigner who is barely tolerated by most rural Afghanis, since the Afghanis are very xenophobic. I think bin Laden is far more sophisticated, complex, and cosmopolitan than the Taliban. Few Taliban have ever left their home province. Bin Laden is a world savvy. For another thing, he is brilliantly creative, and known among his supporters as 'imaginative." You can't say that about the Taliban. HIs idea of using American know-how to bomb itself, using no resources of his own, is sheer genius. He is one of the few Islamics to bridge the great cultural gulf between and among the Arabs. Remember that the Afghanis are NOT Arabs. They are Caucasians, their language is "Indo-European" and they are culturally Persians. The Afghanis don't even like Arabs. Yet bin Laden is able to speak to and appeal to them as well as North Africans, Lebonese, Egyptians, Iraquis, Palestinians, Iranians, Pakistanis, Kashmiris -- which is simply remarkable. More so, he has bridge the religious differences among the Muslims, although he still has a way to go. Just getting Shiite and Suni Muslims in the same room is itself a remarkable achievement. That fact that bin Laden appeals to married, 43-year old residents of America with pilot licenses willing to give their lives, says to me there is something large and non-marginal about this. Bin Laden may be Hitler, but it does no good to think of Hitler, or bin Laden, as "fringe" or even as a terrorist. This is a main stream, middle of the road skirmish. Radical Islam will become the new communism, if it isn't that already. It has a deep appeal, even to those subjugated to it. There are aspects about that even supporters don't like and can't stand, but they will submit to it because they believe it is better overall than the alternative of "western capitalism." And like communism it will be very hard to eradicate it, should we attempt to. The Arab countries we are now asking to take sides, will probably take sides with us, but this will kill and maim them because they are essentially taking sides against many of their own citizens, who may be better organized and committed than the government itself. The key question for me is: will this revolutionary style -- a sort of mafia, suicidal, networked, globally guerilla insurgency -- be imported by other non-muslim radicals? Will bin Laden become the Che Guevera of this century? Will the resident antipathy towards America in other spheres be cast in the same style. Will all anti-global-capitalism become clones of bin Laden? Like communism this can spread. And like communism I think its a very bad idea in practice, though it sounds good in theory. So I am in favor of halting it, and I believe that it needs to be combatted early and often. But the danger of radical Islam becoming the new communism is that anyone who is not against them becomes branded a communist, or "terrorist," themselves. That worries me because I am not so eager to label bin Laden a "tinpot terrorist." He is not second rate, and he may not even be a terrorist. This is a new kind of war. There has been no demands made, like in most terrorism. There is nothing we have that they want. Their intent is not to terrorize. This is only a side product. Their intent is to destroy the prevailing mono-system. But they are not a state government, but a pan-national network that is growing. We've done little to eradicate them in 20 years. They are stronger now then ever before. At first I thought that the World Trade airbombing would need to be followed through by another attack to have lasting meaning, but as the depth and sophistication of the network of the radicals is revealed I think we have already reached a critical moment. I think we need a new framework for understanding them. I would ban the use of the words "terrorists" and "terrorism." A better old word is "revolutionary." Our chief concern should be that there is nothing we have they want. They don't want recognition. They don't want our trade. They don't want our culture. They don't want our aspirations -- democracy, free choice, high technology. They don't want our values. They don't want our wealth. Actually, they would like our literacy (for males) and health care, but that is not enough. I think we need to enlarge western civilization so that we have something to offer them that they want. For all their differences, the Chinese and other Asias share aspirations with us. They would like to have much that we have. This is true of Latin America and even Africa to some extent. They want it in their own way, and on their own terms, and with their own improvements, but there is a sense of of a common goal. The Radical Islamics don't share that goal. And for the first time since communism, there is a competing destiny in the world. It is not the end of history as far as they are concerned. We in the west look at radical Islam and blink in disbelief that anyone could possibly WANT this? Are you serious? Yes. They are as serious as the World Trade Towers. Does it work in practice? Well the few examples we have (Afghanistan, Iran, etc.) do not give us much hope. But it took many decades for the practicality of communism to sink in. There were plenty of bombs dropped and people killed in western capitalism's battle against communism, but my own view of all that warring is that very little of it made as much difference in the end as the simple fact that the west, through its own improvement, came to offer many things that those in communist countries wanted. And when we had something they wanted, communism collapsed. We don't have much radical Islam wants right now, but we should. Providing it will be the only way, and the only honest way, to triumph. Needless to say, even if Bush was Churchill (ha!) this would not happen during his term. It's gonna take many many years. In the meantime, hug an Arab. -- --kk Hug an Arab, please. _______________________________________________________________________________ Kevin Kelly kk@well.com www.well.com/user/kk 149 Amapola Ave, Pacifica, CA 94044 USA +1-650-355-7676 home office +1-650-359-9701 fax

Suicide terrorism: a global threat Traditionally viewed as a problem affecting the Middle East and South Asia, the threat posed by suicide terrorism is spreading around the globe. Rohan Gunaratna assesses the nature of the threat, preventive and reactive security measures, and examines future trends. (...) The threat Suicide terrorism is the readiness to sacrifice one's life in the process of destroying or attempting to destroy a target to advance a political goal. The aim of the psychologically and physically war-trained terrorist is to die while destroying the enemy target. In the 1980s suicide terrorism was witnessed in Lebanon, Kuwait and Sri Lanka. In the 1990s it had spread to Israel, India, Panama, Algeria, Pakistan, Argentina, Croatia, Turkey, Tanzania and Kenya. With enhanced migration of terrorist groups from conflict-ridden countries, the formation of extensive international terrorist infrastructures and the increased reach of terrorist groups in the post Cold War period, suicide terrorism is likely to affect Western Europe and North America in the foreseeable future. There are now 10 religious and secular terrorist groups that are capable of using suicide terrorism as a tactic against their governments and/or foreign governments. They are: the Islam Resistance Movement (Hamas) and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad of the Israeli occupied territories; Hizbullah of Lebanon; the Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) and Gamaya Islamiya (Islamic Group - IG) of Egypt; the Armed Islamic Group (GIA) of Algeria; Barbar Khalsa International (BKI) of India; the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) of Sri Lanka; the Kurdistan Worker's Party (PKK) of Turkey; and the Osama bin Laden network (Al Quaida) of Afghanistan. There were also four pro-Syrian, Lebanese and Syrian political parties engaged in suicide terrorism in the 1980s, but they are currently inactive in the terrorist front. These groups staged around 25 suicide attacks in Lebanon. As more than one group claimed some of the attacks, perhaps to diffuse the threat to the group, it is difficult to identify the group responsible. The groups engaged in suicide operations in Lebanon alongside Hizbullah were the Natzersit Socialist Party of Syria; the Syrian Nationalist Party; the Lebanese Communist Party; and the Baath Party of Lebanon. There are two types of suicide operations: battlefield and off the battlefield. In battlefield operations, suicide bombers are integrated into the attacking groups. Most off-the-battlefield operations have involved single suicide bombers. In the case of the LTTE and Hamas, there have been multiple suicide bombers. The targets have been static and mobile, against infrastructure and humans. Suicide bombers have destroyed military, political, economic and cultural infrastructure. They have committed terrorist attacks by killing civilians in buses, crowded places and in buildings. Suicide bombers have also assassinated political and military VIPs. Key characteristics Examination of suicide terrorism across a range of groups has revealed that terrorist groups use suicide bombers when they are both strong and weak. In terms of military and economic power, Hizbullah and the LTTE lead the list of suicide operations. In terms of numbers, the LTTE has conducted the largest volume of suicide operations, followed by Hizbullah, Hamas and the PKK. In terms of range, only some of the groups have operated beyond their territories. As well as abortive attempts to conduct suicide operations in Israel, Hizbullah has successfully conducted suicide operations in Argentina. The LTTE has conducted one suicide operation in India. It is the only group to have killed two world leaders - the former prime minister of India, Rajiv Gandhi, and the president of Sri Lanka, Ranasinghe Premadasa - using male and female suicide bombers. The Egyptian groups have conducted suicide operations in Croatia against a police station and in Pakistan against the Egyptian embassy. Al-Qaeda used at least one Egyptian suicide bomber in the 1998 East African embassy bombings. All the other active groups have conducted suicide operations within their own territory. The PKK has threatened to conduct suicide operations in Germany where there is a large Kurdish diaspora. All the suicide terrorist groups have support infrastructures in Europe and in North America. Leaders and members of these groups are known to travel to the West, and key activists live either in Europe or in North America distributing propaganda, raising funds, and in some instances procuring weapons and shipping them to the various theatres of conflict. Suicide-capable groups differ in form, size, orientation, goal and support. A review of the key characteristics of the 10 suicide-capable groups reveals that any group can acquire suicide bomb technology and engage in suicide terrorism: a Al-Qaeda is a mix of several associate groups that are internationally dispersed. From Afghanistan, Bin Laden provides the overall direction to the organisation. Al-Qaedaefforts are primarily directed against the USA ('Great Satan') and Israel ('Little Satan'), and their allies. More recently, Al- Qaedahas directed its efforts against India on the issue of Kashmir, a territory disputed between India and Pakistan. The USA has directed its resources to disrupting Al-Qaedasupport operations in the USA, especially after the 1998 embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. a The Indian counter insurgency specialist, K P S Gill, broke the backbone of the Sikh insurgents in Punjab, northern India. BKI is fighting for an independent 'Khalistan' in the predominantly Sikh state of Punjab. It has a small presence in the target country - India - but enjoys a significant presence in the diaspora - UK and Canada. In January 2000, when BKI was planning to conduct its second suicide operation, the Indian security forces apprehended the bomber. a The GIA has staged only one suicide operation as part of its fight to establish an Islamic state in Algeria. a Hizbullah, responsible for suicide bombing the US Marine Corps barracks and the headquarters of the French paratroopers in Lebanon in 1983, is fighting to oust the Israelis from southern Lebanon. Hizbullah is supported by Iran, a steadfast state sponsor. Today, Hizbullah is also a political party. a Hamas and PIJ, operating in Gaza and West Bank, have vowed to destroy the 'Zionist state of Israel'. Currently, Hamas and PIJ are controlled by the Palestinian Authority under its President, Yasser Arafat. Shin Bet (the Israeli security agency) and the Mossad (the Israeli external intelligence agency) have regulated the efficacy of these two groups by removing their key operatives and military leaders. In a deep-penetration operation, Shin Bet agents placed a micro explosive device in the mobile phone of the Hamas suicide bomb maker, Yahiya Aiyyash, killing him. Due to the efficiency of the countermeasures adopted by Israeli police, military, intelligence and security organisations, the number of fatalities and casualties caused by Hamas, the PIJ and Hizbullah bombing has steadfastly declined. Towards the last few bombings, the explosions only killed the bomber. Although Hamas is likely to retain a military capability, the group will probably join the political mainstream in the foreseeable future. The PIJ became weak after the Mossad assassinated Shikaki, its military and political commander in Malta. a The two Egyptian groups - IG and EIJ - are fighting to establish an Islamic state in Egypt. The leader of the EIJ, Dr Ayman Al-Thawaheri, lives in Afghanistan and works closely with Bin Laden. a Until the capture of PKK leader Abdullah Ocalan, the PKK fought for an independent Kurdistan in southeastern Turkey. Today, the PKK is demanding autonomy and equal cultural rights. a The LTTE is fighting for an independent Tamil state in northeastern Sri Lanka. As the quality of targets chosen by the LTTE is high, it has a sophisticated training programme that lasts for about a year. As well as training the bomber, the LTTE research unit tests the effects of explosives on dogs and goats to ensure that the attack is successful. The list of Sri Lankan VIPs killed in suicide attacks includes one president, one presidential candidate, the State Minister of Defence, the Navy Chief and various area commanders. No country has lost so many leaders in such a short period of time as Sri Lanka has to the LTTE suicide bombers. (...) NUMBER OF SUICIDE ATTACKS BETWEEN 1980-2000 The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) in Sri Lanka and in India 168 Hizbullah and pro-Syrian groups in Lebanon, Kuwait and Argentina 52 Hamas in Israel 22 The Kurdistan Worker's Party (PKK) in Turkey 15 The Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) in Israel 8 Al Quaida in East Africa 2 The Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) in Croatia 1 The Islamic Group (IG) in Pakistan 1 Barbar Khalsa International (BKI) in India 1 The Armed Islamic Group (GIA) in Algeria 1

Below is a list of STICTLY FORBIDDEN items to be carried on board the cabin of any BA flight. DRS pages are being updated individually, but you can use this as a guideline when informing clients. Most are for obvious reasons, but something most of us never thought of previously. * Toy or replica guns (plastic or metal) * Household cutlery * Knives with blades of any length (including steel nail files) * Paper knives * Razor blades (shaving or other) * Tradesmen's tools * Darts * Scissors of any size * Hypodermic syringes* * Knitting needles * Sporting bats (including rackets, cricket bats and golf clubs) * Billiard, snooker, or pool cues * Catapults (slingshots) * Corkscrews with blades attached *Customers who require the use of hypodermic needles for medical reasons (for example, diabetics and customers with allergies), will be asked for proof of medical need. Please be advised that customers carrying any of the above items (with the exception of hypodermic needles) will be asked to place it in their hold baggage. Customers carrying hand baggage only will be asked to surrender the item for disposal.

Breakdown of people who are missing and presumed dead by nationality (per Reuters): Australia 78 Bangladesh 50 Brazil 30 Britain 300 Canada 78 China 53 Columbia 199 Ecuador 34 Egypt 4 El Salvador 73 Finland 50 Germany 104 Honduras 1 Indonesia 16 Ireland 103 Italy 5 Japan 24 Lebanon 3 Mexico 166 Philippines 435 Russia 100 South Africa 25 South Korea 18 Switzerland 288 Thailand 3 The remainder are Americans.

Link for the Reuters casualties by nationality figures above: http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20010918/wtc_casualties_graphic.gif The original source of the numbers is FEMA as of 9/17.

I hope not, but here's the rumor: http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAGB8LISRC.html Relevant section: "Authorities have grown increasingly certain - from intelligence intercepts, witness interviews and evidence gathered in hijackers' cars and homes - that a second wave of violence was planned by collaborators. They said Sept. 22 has emerged as an important date in the evidence, but declined to be more specific. Tuesday's attacks were "part of a larger plan with other terrorism acts, not necessarily hijacking of airplanes," said Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. "Those acts were going to occur in the United States and elsewhere in the world." The FBI said it has issued an advisory to fire departments across the country to increase security and guard against the theft of any ambulances or fire trucks, which could be used in bombing attacks. The bureau said the warning was precautionary. " For more on your air travel safety, go to this site and read ALPA Security Alert Bulletin 2001-2, detailing such important items as the use of the emergency axe in the cockpit against suicidal hi-jackers and planning for emergency depressurizations and violent aircraft maneuvers to disable and disorient hi-jackers: http://www.awalpa.org/

World Leaders List Conditions on Cooperation New York Times September 19, 2001 by PATRICK E. TYLER and JANE PERLEZ (Excerpt) WASHINGTON, Sept. 18 � After a week of unconditional support from abroad, the Bush administration confronted its first significant difficulties today in building a broad international coalition to support using military power and other means against a still-faceless terror network rooted in Afghanistan and elsewhere. A procession of world leaders was either on the way or on the phone to Washington seeking to convince the White House that only a multilateral approach based on consultation, hard evidence and United Nations support would justify the use of military power in response to the devastating attacks last week. Today, President Jiang Zemin of China telephoned Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain and President Jacques Chirac of France as each prepared for meetings with President Bush. He admonished his Western counterparts to tell Mr. Bush that "any military action against terrorism" should be based on "irrefutable evidence and should aim at clear targets so as to avoid casualties to innocent people," according to official news reports from China. Mr. Jiang also telephoned President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, and although the two leaders denounced "terrorism in all its forms," they spoke just of cooperating with each other and the United Nations to "develop a mechanism for fighting terrorism," the reports said. As the Bush administration sought through White House consultations and overseas missions to strengthen the sinews of an antiterror effort whose scale and objective remain unknown, a number of countries began to calculate the potential cost of their taking part, and to try to exact a price for it from the United States. For a number of Middle Eastern countries, the price was straightforward. The United States has to become more deeply involved in ending the violence and in reinvigorating the Israeli-Palestinian peace effort. But it was clear that a convulsion in Israel, the West Bank or Gaza could threaten Washington's efforts to maintain support in moderate Arab countries, a problem that Mr. Bush's father faced in the 1991 coalition that defeated Iraq in Kuwait. "The people that we expect to work with closely in combating terrorism," a spokesman for the State Department, Richard A. Boucher, said, are "interested in the Israel- Palestinian situation," and their attitudes toward America's war on terrorism are "linked in people's minds" to America's commitment to Arab-Israeli peace. Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal of Saudi Arabia, is due to arrive on Wednesday with a large contingent of Saudi intelligence officers and their files on Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda network. But other potential American allies raised urgent economic and political agendas that officials said Washington was beginning to address. Pakistan, in exchange for whatever bases or rights to fly in its air space that it provides, would like an agreement to end 11 years of sanctions, to restore the flow of American arms and to reduce a punishing debt load. Russia, if it is called on, has a clear set of grievances over NATO expansion toward its borders and criticism of its military campaign in Chechnya. Foreign Minister Igor D. Ivanov arrives on Wednesday. Administration officials said they were eager to establish Moscow's price to open the northern corridor to Afghanistan through Tajikistan, a former Soviet republic. A number of Russian generals have questioned whether Russia could join an American-led antiterror campaign whose operational objectives remain unclear. One high- ranking military officer told a newspaper, Vremya Novestei, that "fighting terrorists is like trying to rid oneself of roaches in a block of flats." "You do it in one flat," the officer said, "and they go to another." Nowhere was the sense of alarm over American plans more apparent than in the warning of one of America's staunchest Middle East allies, President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt. In remarks broadcast on Monday night, he implored the United States not to undertake military action that might kill innocent civilians, divide Christians against Muslims and further inflame attitudes against American policy in the region. Mr. Mubarak, like Mr. Jiang, urged that "hard evidence" be the basis for any military action and that "countries not be punished" for the actions of "individuals." He called on the United Nations to organize an international convention against terrorism that would develop a common program of action for all countries. His remarks were echoed by other leaders in the region where Washington has yet to establish a firm diplomatic beachhead in dealing with intractable and volatile conflicts. While Egypt and Jordan were both crucial allies in the 1991 coalition against President Saddam Hussein of Iraq, diplomats from both countries said they did not expect to be called on to provide bases or other direct military support. Both said they were providing intelligence information on terrorist groups to the Central Intelligence Agency under longstanding agreements. Beneath the veneer of solidarity and support in Europe, misgivings can be heard about how Mr. Bush plans to proceed. Germany has repeatedly called for a multilateral approach to the problem and warned against America's going it alone. Speaking at the White House today, Mr. Chirac pointedly declined to accept Mr. Bush's characterization of the fight against terrorism as a war. "I don't know whether we should use the word `war,' " the French leader said. Diplomats noted that Mr. Bush sent a high-level State Department envoy, John R. Bolton, to Moscow on Monday to push forward on American missile defense plans, even though a decision by Mr. Bush to withdraw unilaterally from the Antiballistic Missile Treaty of 1972 would raise questions of a return to a "go it alone" ethos in international affairs. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/19/international/19DIPL.html

Hi all MSG 436 sums up just about every country capable of providing aid bar New Zealand. Do we not exist? Last I looked 3.81 million New Zealanders, 46 million sheep as well as Kiwis, Takahe's Pukeko's Kaka, Kereru, among other birds, reptiles, fish, spiders and insects can be found on two large islands and a host of smaller islands grouped together under the popular name "Godzone". On to more relevant matters though. New Zealand has offered intelligence assistance but nothing else as we seem to be preoccupied with Air New Zealands struggle to stay afloat and the fact that our armed forces have been degraded so badly that the East Timor peace keeping operation is about as far as we would get anyway. We could have offered more if so much money was not being lost in ideological changes to governing structures for everything everytime Labour and National swapped places in the Beehive. I mean ideally we could have bought the 28 F-16s the United States was prepared to give us but Helen Clark's excuse was they have never been used so why keep them? So what if they were not used, having them meant our servicemen were technically competent, that we could participate in defence exercises and have a small but modern air combat force. We could have gotten one or two frigates that Labour was talking about but I suspect they sold out to the Greens. Typical. So here we are with a poorly equipped airforce that just lost the "force", and a downsized Navy. Great. Rob

(Rachael) what hasn't been on the news, but I'm not the only one noticing it, a couple of friends have said the same in other parts of the country, there's been lots more movement of military aircraft around here the last couple of days than would be normal. It's the same over here. The skies over the greater DC area are humming.

Thanks for the lengthy list of positions by country, Suzee. Everybody, time to put those tax refunds back in the mail to Washington. It's going to cost us jillions to *morally* convince some of these countries. :-(

Tamim Ansar (cited above) is supposed to be on Charlie Rose sometime and was on NPR being interviewed by Bill Moyers the other night. Pat Holt has a piece on him http://www.holtuncensored.com/members/index.html Robert McNeil who left the Newshour in 95 has come out of retirement to help with their coverage. His first interview was today http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/foreign_correspondence/july- dec01/terrorism_9-18.html One exchange: ROBERT MACNEIL: Steve Erlanger, how is Mr. Bush's leadership and his rhetoric perceived where you are, in Germany? STEVE ERLANGER: A little worrying, quite honestly. People are being very polite, but they see, often, the kind of terror in Mr. Bush's eyes when he goes off of his script. They worry he will feel too much political pressure to react too soon and in the wrong way. They are hopeful that he will listen to his senior advisers, and they think that he will, and they have a little bit of odd relief, almost, that for an administration that, so far, has regarded relations with Europe as very much secondary, if not tertiary, it is now discovering that, as usual, in a crisis America's best friends are on this continent.

Robin McNeil interviewed four overseas New York Times bureau chiefs. McNeil: Can I ask each of you how Washington's leadership and behavior is perceived where you are? Warren Hoge, after the first wave of solidarity and sympathy [the British bureau chief had said the British felt particularly targeted by the attack, with some 300 UK citizens probably dead], which was so apparent in western Europe, and particularly in Britain, where the queen led a service in St. Paul's-- You've all reported some degree of second thoughts, backpedaling, a little--voices of caution raised. How has that been affected by Mr. Bush's leadership, his rhetoric, the actions he's taken so far. Does that inspire confidence and reassurance? Hoge, NYT London Bureau Chief: I think Colin Powell inspires more confidence. Many Britons have said to me they feel much more comfortable with George W. Bush now that Colin Powell seems to be permanently at his side. Colin Powell speaks the language of diplomacy; he is somebody who understands both the capabilities and the limitations of military power-- this is what the British think. So they have a much higher degree of comfort with his kind of talking than the more bellicose language of President Bush. So, they're hoping for Bush, they're behind Bush--this is a very pro-American place in Europe--but there's a little bit of worry that he's untested, and also that he's surrounded by some other people who might have a little more hotheaded reaction to what must be done now than Colin Powell seems to be having. McNeil: And Steve Erlanger, how is Mr. Bush's leadership and his rhetoric perceived where you are, in Germany? Erlanger, NYT Hamburg Bureau Chief: A little worrying, quite honestly. People are being very polite. But they see, often, the kind of terror in Mr. Bush's eyes when he goes off of his script. They worry that he will feel too much political pressure to react too soon, and in the wrong way. They are hopeful that he will listen to his senior advisors, and they think that he will. And they have a little bit of odd relief, almost, that for an administration that so far has regarded relations with Europe as very much secondary, if not tertiary--it is now discovering that as usual, in a crisis, America's best friends are on this continent. McNeil: And in Moscow, Michael Wines, how is the Washington leadership under Mr. Bush perceived? Wines, NYT Moscow Bureau Chief: Well, I think that there has been a great deal of uneasiness with the unilateralism that the Russians think that the United States has displayed, mostly in the last year, but again going back to Yugoslavia. And I think in this case there is great hope, among, certainly among Russian people, and among the leadership, that this will turn out to be something of a turning point in American-Russian relations: a chance for the Americans to consult with the Russians in reality, for a change. The Russians here feel like they're somewhat ignored in national relations. And so they're hoping for a much more cooperative attitude. But, I have to say, so far, there's great suspicion, and I think they're waiting for the Americans to come up with a plan. And when they see that plan, I think they'll have a better idea. McNeil: And in Cairo, Neil McFarquhar, how is Mr. Bush's leadership perceived there? McFarquhar, NYT Cairo Bureau Chief: Across the Middle East the one exception in this thing has been Iraq, which has been attacking the United States, what it calls its "cowboy policies". But the one thing that's upset the Arabs is, apparently, in one speech Mr. Bush used the words "crusades", and that word is fraught with a lot of terrible memories in the Middle East, because of course the Crusades were used to attack the region. So there has been a lot of discussion, that if this is a new Crusade, they don't want to be part of it

I couldn't believe Bush used the words crusade! Reminiscent of Dan Quayle there. Thanks for the lengthy list of positions by country, Suzee. Everybody, time to put those tax refunds back in the mail to Washington. It's going to cost us jillions to *morally* convince some of these countries. :-( Yes, Thank you Suzee. The U$ barganing table is open and the odd thing is that the price of gold is not reacting. Is there a conspiracy to keep the price of gold stable? What is going on there? My very good friend lost a friend on the Fl#11 and my brother has many friends that are missing at WTC. And now we are told that Sept. 22nd is a date to watch out for. :-( I do not sleep well at night.

A Washington Post article on the threat of bio-terrorism: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41225-2001Sep16.html

Wolfie, I tried, and since I am not listed on your other conferences as having access, I could not add them. I did put it on SpringArk. I like the ribbon on that Google.com site, too. I wish it lead back to that site and I would install it in a second. Terry, the programming in my cfconfig file is easy enough to copy and paste. Have at it!!

Breakdown of people who are missing and presumed dead by nationality (per Reuters) Does that include confirmed dead? A young Polish woman journalist died there, too, on her honeymoon. Her husband is fighting for his life in a NY hospital.

on the threat of bio-terrorism The unexplained, mysteriously spreading and still not defeated outbreak of foot and mouth in the UK may be a testing ground.

http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,552749,00.html Comprehensive and unreported in US news sources.

As for Afghanistan, check out:http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2001/June/Afghan/index.html for a brilliant description of that country by an Iranian film make

Why? from The Independent (London), by Robert Fisk, 8/29/01: http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=91066 and again, eighteen days later, 9/16/01: http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=94254

interesting to read what Warren Hoge said - I think its fair comment; have to say, one of the things that impressed me in the first few days was the way that very senior people seemed to make themselves available for lengthy and open press conferences - I'm not sure you'd see that here (in the UK). And yes I'm impressed with Colin Powell - the fact that he has such experience makes him seem very reassuring - don't know if Americans feel the same. for info (mainly to UK people) today's paper hads a full page ad for the World Trade Centre Disaster Fund www.wtcfund.org.uk and says "This is an hour of need for our friends in America. Let's show them that our actions are as loud as our words" If you're not already a Red Cross contributor, the website might be worth a visit. One of the saddest things I read today was about the families of some of the British victims flying into NYC, and my heart goes out to all those of whatever nationality who are dealing with this unimaginable heartbreak. My 12 y o was in NYC with her father a couple of months ago, and has been very distressed this week - tonight she said "I can't believe that something I've seen that was so big and amazing just isn't there now".

There is a quote in this weeks edition of Newsweek by a Wall St employee " I never thought I'd see the day when the World Trade Center would pass me by in a dump truck " It's funny in a sad, sad, kind of a way. AOL is reporting that the actor James Woods was on Flight 11 Boston to LA on Sep 4th, the same one that crashed, a week later. He was in first class with only 4 other passengers. They were all Arabs. They spoke to no one, ate nothing, drank nothing, read nothing and watched no movies. He said they all just sat in their seats starring off into space. It creeped him out, so he mentioned it to a stewardess. She shrugged if off, but when they got to LA, he reported it to the FBI. The FBI in LA are confirming this. So it looks like they did a "test run" the week before.

Peggy Noonan writes about how "we live in such unprecedented comfort! But can it last!" http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=95001157 During the summer, when you were a kid, your dad worked a few towns away and left at 8:30; Mom stayed home smoking and talking and ironing. You biked to the local school yard for summer activities--twirling, lanyard making, dodgeball--until afternoon. Then you'd go home and play in the street. At 5:30 Dad was home and at 6 there was dinner--meat loaf, mashed potatoes and canned corn. Then TV and lights out. Now it's more like this: Dad goes to work at 6:15, to the city, where he is an executive; Mom goes to work at the bank where she's a vice president, but not before giving the sitter the keys and bundling the kids into the car to go to, respectively, soccer camp, arts camp, Chinese lessons, therapy, the swim meet, computer camp, a birthday party, a play date. Then home for an impromptu barbecue of turkey burgers and a salad with fresh Parmesan cheese followed by summer homework, Nintendo, and TV --the kids lying splayed on the couch, dead eyed, like denizens of a Chinese opium den--followed by "Hi Mom," "Hi, Dad," and bed. Life is so much more interesting now! It's not boring, like 1957. There are things to do: The culture is broader, more sophisticated; there's more wit and creativity to be witnessed and enjoyed. Moms, kids and dads have more options, more possibilities. This is good. The bad news is that our options leave us exhausted when we pursue them and embarrassed when we don't. . . . If someone does the big, terrible thing to New York or Washington, there will be a lot of chaos and a lot of lines going down, a lot of damage, and a lot of things won't be working so well anymore. And thus a lot more . . . time. Something tells me we won't be teleconferencing and faxing about the Ford account for a while. The psychic blow--and that is what it will be as people absorb it, a blow, an insult that reorders and changes--will shift our perspective and priorities, dramatically, and for longer than a while. Something tells me more of us will be praying, and hard, one side benefit of which is that there is sometimes a quality of stopped time when you pray. You get outside time.

Answers hidden in lost former black Seminole village By SCOTT MCCABE, The Palm Beach Post An AP Member Exchange BUSHNELL � Forty-five minutes west of Walt Disney's make-believe history, archaeologists dig for real artifacts. Hunched over a shallow, square excavation, they search for Peliklakaha, the largest Black Seminole village known to historians, a place where different cultures joined in a fight for freedom more than 200 years ago. Until now, say University of Florida archaeologists, Peliklakaha existed only in the writings of military leaders and a painting commissioned by the U.S. general who had burned it down. Archaeologists hope to unearth clues that documents can't provide, secrets about the life of a hidden people. They hope Peliklakaha will reveal whether the inhabitants developed a unique lifestyle with their new status as free people in Florida. "The story of the Black Seminoles is a tremendous story about a successful effort by slaves gaining their freedom before the Civil War," said Delray Beach archaeologist Bill Steele, who discovered the site in 1993. "That's why Peliklakaha is so significant." The dig could establish a new focus in archaeology on cultures that combine African and Native American influences, said Terry Weik, the UF graduate student heading the excavation. more... http://www.naplesnews.com/01/09/florida/d648785a.htm

The James Woods thing, if real, has all kinds of ramifications? When did he callthe FBI? What date? Was this a dry run or an aborted attempt? Did the hijackers make any calls on their Airphones? And were any of these men on the actual suicide hijacking missions? Now James Woods will be a witness if any of these men are apprehended, after sitting on a flight with them he could surely identify them. Pretty creepy, alright.

Subject: Waiting Date: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 11:29 AM From: Womack, Jack Waiting, today, for whatever is going to happen next. It does seem as if considerable thought is going into whatever the response will be. Reports from Indian & Pakistani newspapers are saying that the special force units (Rangers, SEALS, Green Berets, several other groups including one we have never heard of before, "Night Stalkers." -- this goes into my phrasebook of new terms, along with "Frozen Zone") are already moving into place. I suspect something along the lines of the following will happen, whenever it happens: 1. Ground forces at this stage will consist solely of those guys, or some of those guys. More are preparing to go over, it's said, but I can't help but think that the US is keeping in mind what happened to the USSR during their ten-year war. (It would be absolute madness to send a large number of soldiers into Afghanistan, but that doesn't mean it won't happen, sooner or later.) 2. Bombing from the air will occur prior to the guys going in; I have a suspicion that for appearance's sake if nothing else, this will be Dresden/Tokyo-size bombing although there isn't much left to bomb. From today's Times: "When we looked at Afghanistan before, the sense was we were going to bomb them up to the stone age," said one former Clinton administration official familiar with the planning of past military strikes against Mr. bin Laden's terrorist network. The FBI is now saying that not long prior to the event, the pilot of the plane that first struck the Towers met with an Iraqi intelligence agent. Iraq is vigorously denying this and evidently claiming this story came from the UK. If they're in the process of ascertaining that Hussein was in any way connected (it's hard not to suspect that he is, if only because the opportunity to get back at Bush Sr. by way of Bush Jr. would I think be pretty hard to pass up) they're keeping it *way* under wraps. Because -- 3. If Hussein was even minimally involved, it's a pretty safe bet Baghdad will also get the Dresden/Tokyo treatment, and totally without warning. After that, it's anyone's guess -- anything from ongoing small operations for the next five, ten, twenty years, to World War III. One view in the Russian papers is that if this were to be handled in the traditional Central Asian way, the Taliban themselves would kill bin Laden, and then turn over his body claiming that Western intelligence forces did it. Ah, the Russian mind....being capable of Russian-level cynicism, and possessed of the ability to endlessly extrapolate negative transactions, it's easy for me to imagine one scenario being the US setting off a nuclear bomb in northern Afghanistan in the midst of ground assaults, air bombing, etc.; thereafter claiming that the bomb belonged to the terrorists, that we found out about this just in time, clearly they were going to use it, and that therefore we have ample cause to do whatever the hell we want, beginning with taking out the capitals of Iraq, Iran... It is, of course, fortunate that I am not President. Enough punditizing, and back to the home front: the windows of the stores on Fifth & 57th filled with flags, or memorial bunting, or black curtains. Police cadets (having not yet been graduated) keeping an eye on traffic in midtown, and regular police as ever, everywhere. Military humvees heading down Fifth Avenue along with delivery trucks and stretch limos. I saw my therapist yesterday for the first time in two weeks (I see her on Tuesdays, but had no Sept. 11 session), and talked to her about depression, anxiety, the new numbness of being which I am beginning to think may have a certain permanence about it, now; about my stepmother's death the week prior to last, forgotten in the rush of events; about anger, and rage. (A minor interruption just now as a workman came into my office. "Just checking your electric outlet," he said. "The plates." Then, as he leaves. stated from over his shoulder, "Don't want you to get blown up.") I've always been an *extremely* angry person. For most of my life I automatically turned this inward, with the result being (as noted yesterday, I think) fairly deep and ongoing depression (which is also, at least partially, hereditary/chemical) With four years of therapy, beginning after I came out of the hospital back in 1997, I have managed to be able to get a lot of what was in, out; and feel much better for it. For the past year I've been doing much better at getting anger out before it becomes internalized rage. Unfortunately, if anger has no ready focus; or if anger rises toward a number of situations, or people, or whatever, very suddenly, it can't help but be turned inward, at least initially. And it grows, and it grows, and it grows; and it either stays inside, and becomes depression (which is what has been happening, I'm sure not only to me) or comes out in -- well, random acts of senseless violence. And on a national scale... But I am only going to speak now of what has made me angry, this past week. I am furious at the perpetrators of this horror. At the hijackers and at all who consciously helped them. I am furious at the US, for having let intelligence slip to such a level that this could have happened. I am furious at airlines that cut corners on security and hired guards at six dollars an hour. I am furious at pundits, who are presently coming at us from all directions; whether they be Jerry Falwell saying that liberals and gays brought about these events, causing God to turn Its back; or Susan Sontag saying in this week's New Yorker that courage is "a morally neutral virtue," and that the hijackers were, in context, courageous; or Howard Fineman in Newsweek writing about how baby boomers, such as himself, have always been too prone to self-loathing, prior to his saying immediately thereafter that the rest of our lives are going to be miserable and we deserve it for having been miserable selfish bastards; or the local idiot newscaster on Channel 2 (a notorious idiot, who has bounced from station to station for the past twenty years, always landing on his feet) who said "we've got a heartwarming story coming up," immediately prior to going to the burn unit at Cornell Hospital; or that coke-addled reprobate Taki in the NY Press saying that we wouldn't have this trouble with the Arabs if it wasn't for the Jews. I am furious at God, if God there be. I believe there is God, in some form. God leaves us to our own devices. And I believe there is good and evil. That most of the time, things are a mixture of both, to one degree or another; but that some people, some actions, some events, contain nothing but evil, in the truest and classical sense. I believe that what happened last Tuesday was an evil act, unjustified and in no way the moral equivalent of anything the US government has done in the past or is doing now. Valeria and I had an extremely long discussion last night that often became an argument, lasting until one AM. "What about Hiroshima? or Nagasaki? or slavery, or what happened to Native Americans?" Yes, the US has done terrible things in the past. Some have arisen from arrogance, some from ignorance, some from both. Some, such as slavery, or giving smallpox-laced blankets to the Cherokees, should not have been justified in the past and cannot be justified now. Some, such as dropping the bombs on Japan, seemed to be the only thing to do at the time. Perhaps it was, perhaps not; strong arguments can be made on both sides, and will be made from now for the next hundred years. Some, such as rounding up Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor, was a dreadful action that even at the time some (though not enough) felt to be wrong. "They [meaning the hijackers, specifically] believed we're evil," Valeria said. "It's the way they see things. We have to understand that." To which, really, I could only say the easiest of responses: "Hitler believed Jews are evil. It's the way he saw things." Point being that yes, you could say the hijackers believed themselves to be justified. You could say Hitler believed himself to be justified, or Lenin and Stalin believed themselves to be justified. And in historical context, their rise to prominence can be understood; the reasons why they did what they did can be comprehended, at least in basic outline; their actions demonstrate intelligence, and purpose, and rationale. You could call them all geniuses, in their own particular ways, and not be technically incorrect. But the premises from which they began were horribly, horribly wrong; and at some point, through their actions, they crossed the line that separates all of Civilization, however small or advanced the civilization -- whether it be Western, Eastern, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Asian, African, Australian -- from the monstrous. Making a conscious decision, at some point, to stop seeing people as people (whether they be enemy or not) to seeing people as disposable tools, or vermin; or to seeing them not at all -- not simply for the duration of an emergency, or a war, but forever. Seeing light, yet choosing dark, thereafter actively working to switch off light wherever it may be found. Because that's where these actions differ from others. That once the choice is made, that's the end of discussion. The US has at least tried to correct the wrongs it has done in the past, however belatedly, however ineptly, however badly; or however well, or however thoroughly. (As have many if not most other countries as well, some of course doing so far more effectively than others.) In other words, we realized we were wrong, and did awful things believing they were right, *and then began trying to make amends for what, many times, was unforgivable.* And thereafter at least tried to do better, the next time. Were we not to have at least partially learned from some of our mistakes, for example, the government would today be issuing edicts to round up all Arab-Americans, to be resettled in the deserts in the West. *All.* But that isn't happening, neither will it happen under present circumstances. And were it to be tried, even in what has become wartime, the protests would be enormous, and effective. We are, slightly, more civilized than we were; and considering human history, this is progress. By 12:30 AM V & I finally began to understand each other again, and went to sleep at peace. We are married, and happily married, yet the discussion of these things is hard, painfully hard; and angry, at times. It is remarkable, I think, that the discourse thus far has been as restrained as it has been, imbecile NY Post editorials and certain pundits notwithstanding. I hope I've not come across as either an imbecile or a pundit, writing this. By having written this, I am feeling much less angry.

Terry, I am gonna e mail you the James Woods article. My copy and paste fuctions never work here at Drool. Its very odd. So I'll just e mail it to you and, you can decide if you want to post it here.

I found something on http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover.shtml Tuesday, Sept. 18, 2001 9:38 a.m. EDT Twin Tower Terrorists May Have Made Dry Run Did terrorist hijackers who slammed two Boeing 767s into New York's Twin Towers on Tuesday stage a dress rehearsal a week before the attack? That's the intriguing question raised by the account of actor James Woods, who is reportedly telling friends that he saw a suspicious group of Middle Eastern men behaving in a "clandestine" manner during the earlier flight from Boston to Los Angeles. Exactly a week before the devastating attacks, Woods boarded a plane at Boston's Logan Airport, the same departure point the terrorists used. Woods sat in first class, according to friends, two of whom repeated his account to the New York Post's Cindy Adams. He was alone except for four other passengers - all Middle Eastern males. The actor immediately noticed the men behaving "bizarrely." They neither drank, nor ate a morsel nor spoke out loud for the entire flight. There was no reading, no slouching, no nodding off. "They were clandestine. Spoke only to each other in audible tones. And stared straight ahead," Adams was told. "They were clearly very uptight," Woods' friends quoted him as saying. The actor was sufficiently troubled by their behavior to report it to a flight attendant - but she shrugged the incident off. When Woods landed he informed authorities on the ground, who reportedly "seemed unwilling to become involved." The day after the attacks on New York and Washington, Woods called the FBI. At 7 a.m. Thursday investigators summoned the actor for an immediate interview.

I don't quite understand how they could not speak out loud and speak to other other in audible tones at the same time. I'm still wondering how authentic this story is, waiting for Bethanne's email to find out more. It should be in the Ne York Post in Cindy Adams column it sounds like.

From the horses mouth, NY Post gossip columnist Cindy Adams: September 18, 2001 -- Actor's travel tale is plane-ly chilling MOVIE STAR James Woods met with the FBI this week on the events that happened last week. It was a real-life scenario. It was chilling. Jimmy is devoted to his mom, whom fans will recall was his date at the Oscars. She lives in Boston. He lives in Los Angeles. He sees her often. He thus makes the Logan-LAX run regularly. Exactly one week before Terrorist Tuesday, Jimmy made the identical flight from Boston's Logan Airport to L.A. He related this episode to two friends of mine Sunday. Both repeated it to me almost verbatim. As we go to press I have been unable to reach James Woods, whom I know. I therefore repeat this story using his words as they were told to me. James Woods sat in first class. The section was empty except for four other passengers. All male. All Middle Eastern. He was acutely aware of them because of what he termed their "bizarre" behavior. On this entire flight which crosses the whole country not once did one of them partake of a single morsel. Not one even had a sip of water. They did not read. Did not nod off for an instant. Did not slouch down. Did not make themselves comfortable. Did not say a word to the attendants. Did not speak aloud. They were clandestine. Spoke only to each other in inaudible tones. And stared straight ahead. Jimmy is quoted as saying, "They were clearly very uptight." An actor reads body language. An actor is trained to see into someone. To silently probe their psyche. An actor's laserlike slice into the heart of a foreign situation or human being is what enables him to don the mantle and play that other person. An actor's insight into behavior and manner can be as telling as a photograph. Award-winning James Woods felt uneasy. Sufficiently concerned to mention what he'd noticed to a flight attendant who shrugged it off. He also mentioned it to ground authorities who seemed unwilling to become involved. Wednesday, the day after the World Trade Center hit, Jimmy rang the FBI to report his experience. They said thousands of tips were coming in and they're checking all out as fast as they can. Thursday, 7 a.m., they called and said they're coming to see him. Like now. A team arrived at his door. They said something to the effect of, "We cannot tell you anything. We cannot answer any of your questions. You can think whatever you choose to think. Now tell us every detail you remember." As is now known, not the airlines, not Logan security - which Woods supposedly said, "was so lax that I particularly noted it" - not our own intelligence operation picked up vibes in advance of Terrorist Tuesday because, ostensibly, the strike was so swift. However, this would appear that, in fact, somebody should have picked it up because it was not so swift. Because these men had made a dry run exactly the week before. Multiple men. Non-American nationals. Traveling in one group. Arabic names. Foreign passports. Reportedly paying cash. This does not trip some computer somehow, somewhere, someplace? And barring an omniscent all-seeing, all-noticing James Woods being a fellow passenger, might similar advance teams not have replicated this same type trial run on at least four other planes?

I watched all ofthe PBS programs last night. It wasn't exactly the most cheerful evening - I am going to try to be less attentive to the tv tonight. The White House has been trying to backtrack on the "crusade" comment. The root-em-toot-em cowboy image seems to have been reinforced by the "dead or alive" comment also. Even Blair seems less than thrilled with that one. Tuesday September 18 3:46 PM ET White House Apologizes for Word WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush (news - web sites) regrets using the word ``crusade,'' with all its historical connotations of religious war, to describe his campaign against terrorists, his spokesman said Tuesday. Bush only meant to say that his is a ``broad cause'' to stamp out terrorism worldwide, White House press secretary Ari Fleischer (news - web sites) said. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010918/us/attacks_crusade_3.html ---------------- No 10 fails to echo 'dead or alive' call By George Jones, Political Editor (Filed: 19/09/2001)(The Telegraph) BRITAIN refused yesterday to endorse President Bush's declaration that he wanted Osama bin Laden "dead or alive". Tony Blair's official spokesman said the Prime Minister wanted those responsible for the atrocities "brought to account". http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/19/nbrit19.xml

Feedback for Freedom We find ourselves surrounded by cries for retribution ringing out in response to the attacks on the East coast. Fanned by the media, this primitive urge to make others suffer equally or more will have its political and military effect. We are probably on the horrific spiral envisioned by the perpetrators of the attack. My engineering experience warns me that this is not a "converging" situation - it will not settle out in stability, but will thrash madly about until so much is destroyed that nothing can continue. If we want the situation to achieve stability we should consider some principles of feedback design. An engineer designing a feedback system takes an "active element" capable of exerting the maximum force needed and tames it by placing it within an environment that guarantees operation within the intended parameters. For an oscillator, the environment will say: "do anything you want, but only at this frequency". For an amplifier, the message is "do anything you want, but only if the output is in this proportion of the input". Taking this metaphor further, if we want a world of stability we must surround those elements capable of exerting force with environments in which the force is limited and directed. Not by meeting force with greater force, but by depriving force of support when wrongly directed. This applies not only to obvious kinds of military force but also to all the sorts of power which leave people at a disadvantage in their lives. Applying this approach, it is clear that the US should be applying massive pressure upon Israel and the Palestinian Authority to settle up, even if it's not the ideal unattainable by either side. This would remove a serious motivating and disrupting factor from the situation. We should be applying all possible means to change the environment in Afghanistan so that the people are empowered to overthrow the Taliban. Foreign invaders do not fare well in that country - the only people who can effect change are the Afghanis themselves. We should turn many of the billions appropriated by Congress to the alleviation of poverty in the poor nations of the world, especially the Mideast, through education and micro-lending, for example. Work from the bottom up, changing the political and economic environment for the better. And the "we" here also means we as individuals and groups, not simply the government. Citizen initiative can be powerful. We can use it to make cracks in the image of a monolithic passive, compliant populace perpetuated by the media. Cracks like this have a way of propagating. All of this would be profoundly subversive to systems of power. That is the point. Building feedback loops around those power structures will protect not only ourselves but our world. (Lee Felsenstein, , is an electronic design engineer and EFF Pioneer Award winner who played a part both in the early development of personal computers and in the Free Speech Movement in Berkeley. Permission is granted to reproduce this work only in its entirety, including this notice.)

I wonder how many "test runs" these guys made. James Woods Reports Suspicious Passengers to FBI September 19, 2001 Reuters Woods declined to publicly discuss his experience, first reported by New York Post columnist Cindy Adams and confirmed by his spokeswoman, Susan Madore. In a brief statement, the actor said, "I think it prudent not to comment on this and let the FBI continue do their job ..." Article: http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=entertainmentnews&StoryID=231786

Secret Plans for 10-year War THE TIMES (LONDON) THURSDAY SEPTEMBER 20 2001 BY MICHAEL EVANS, DEFENCE EDITOR Generals rule out 'D-Day invasion' AMERICA and Britain are producing secret plans to launch a ten-year �war on terrorism� � Operation Noble Eagle � involving a completely new military and diplomatic strategy to eliminate terrorist networks and cells around the world. Despite the mass build-up of American forces in the Gulf and the Indian Ocean, there will be no �D-Day invasion� of Afghanistan and no repeat of the US-led Operation Desert Storm against Iraq in 1991, defence sources say. The notion that a US-led multinational coalition would attack Afghanistan from all sides for harbouring Osama bin Laden, the wealthy Saudi dissident leader and prime suspect for the terrorist outrages in New York and Washington, has been rejected in Washington and London. The sources also say that the planned campaign is not being focused on just �bringing bin Laden to justice�. The build-up of firepower by the Americans in the region, notably the two aircraft carrier battle groups that are to be joined by a third carrier, USS Theodore Roosevelt, is seen as a major display of available military capability. While it is important for these assets to be in the right place in case of a political decision to launch a strike, there are no plans for a �short-term fix�. The dramatically different anti-terrorism campaign is being planned to meet what is now regarded as the most dangerous threat to global security, known as asymmetric warfare. �We�re expecting it to last from five to ten years,� one source said. New ideas are needed to counter small groups armed with the minimum of weaponry, whether conventional or non-conventional. Such groups have the capability to attack a nation as powerful as the United States, which is equipped with the full range of modern weapons and professional Armed Forces. Old doctrines for fighting wars, based on lining up tanks and artillery and layers of troops, are being thrown out and replaced by a more subtle and wide-ranging doctrine which seeks to defeat the enemy at its own game. �The aim is not to go for the enemy�s strengths, but its weaknesses,� one source said. American and British planners are working on the basis that military strikes will take place only as part of a broader global counter-terrorist operation, embracing every other type of international action � diplomatic, economic and political. Most of the focus of the ten-year campaign plan, the sources say, is on using military action as a potent back-up to all the other strands of Operation Noble Eagle. However, President Bush, conscious of the demand for �revenge� from the American public, might sanction shorter-term military operation by special forces, or airstrikes, but only if there is sufficient intelligence to guarantee a sucessful outcome. �There�s no point in firing a lot of missiles at bin Laden if they miss their target, or launching Tomahawks at bin Laden training camps if they are empty,� one source said. Complete Article: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001320010-2001325231,00.html

From Screendaily: US theatres plan Sept 11 charity day next Tuesday (Mike Goodridge in Los Angeles) Theatre circuits across the US are banding together to create a "Victims Benefit Day at the Movies" next Tuesday (Sept 25) on which 100% of ticket and concession sales will be donated to the September 11th Fund of the United Way and the American Red Cross. 50% of the proceeds will be donated to the Red Cross and 50% to the United Way. Among participating circuits are AMC, Carmike Cinemas, Cinemark USA, Hoyts Cinemas Corp, National Amusements, Regal Cinemas and United Artists Theatre Co. � Joe Roth�s Revolution Studios has announced that it will donate all proceeds from the planned re-release of America�s Sweethearts this weekend to the September 11th Fund; the company is also adding its summer comedy hit The Animal to the re-release at selected sites.

An article in the Nation reports that Russian television has been saying that Russian security services believe the next attack will be on a nuclear power plant: http://www.thenation.com/docPrint.mhtml?i=special&s=bivens_wtc_20010916 We better step up security at our nuclear facilities. Now.

In other news, BBC is reporting that the Afghanistan shura (meeting of clerics) has decided to ask Osama bin Laden to voluntarily leave the country. But who would take him?

It is now being reported that Mossad warned the Bush Administration in August that about 200 people on their watch list of suspected terrorists were slipping into the United States, and that a "big target" was going to be hit.

The James Woods story gets a notch more credibility. Unfriendly Skies for James Woods By Scott Huver, Hollywood.com Staff Hollywood.com Exclusive! Actor may have shared "trial run" flight with terrorists The always-intense actor James Woods may have found himself near the center of the real-life drama that led to the terrorist attacks on New York's World Trade Center. The 54-year-old actor was questioned by the FBI following his report that while on a commercial flight from Boston's Logan Airport to Los Angeles one month prior to the devastating attack, he may have shared the first class section with the same box cutter-wielding terrorists responsible for hijacking American Airlines Flight 11. The four men are now believed to have been enacting a "trial run" of their suicide assault on NYC. According to Woods in a story confirmed by his publicist, he was on a flight back to L.A. after visiting his mother's home in Boston. He was alone in the first class section, except for a quartet of Middle Eastern men who, in Woods' estimation, were behaving bizarrely. The actor noticed that they never ate or drank, never spoke to the flight crew and only addressed each other in hushed tones. For the majority of the cross-country flight the men sat and stared stone-faced straight ahead. Perhaps playing all those movie bad guys and killers gave the Oscar-nominated actor some kind of subtle insight: After picking up on the group's odd demeanor and tense body language, Woods actually mentioned it to a flight attendant, who dismissed it, and reported it again to airline authorities on the ground, who didn't seem to want to pursue it. It wasn't until about a month later, on the Wednesday following the attack, that Woods again called authorities--this time the FBI--to report his experience once more. This time, in less than 24 hours, Federal agents arrived on his doorstep looking to examine every detail of his story. Although the agents didn't share any information on their investigation with the actor, out of the thousands of tips the FBI received, they certainly seemed to take Woods' tale extremely seriously. The actor kept his experience quiet until it was leaked to a New York Post columnist, who mistakenly reported that it occurred only one week prior to the deadly attack. "I think it is prudent not to comment on this and let the FBI continue to do their job, which they seem to be doing superbly right now," Woods said in a statement to Hollywood.com. Laura Bosley, a spokeswoman for the FBI in Los Angeles, could neither confirm nor deny this report, but she did tell Hollywood.com that many individuals nationwide are coming forward with information and that the FBI is taking all these reports into account. Woods recently starred in Scary Movie 2 and appears in the upcoming Drew Barrymore film Riding in Cars With Boys. He recently signed to play former studio head Alan Hirschfield in the film version of David McClintock's book Indecent Exposure, which chronicles David Begelman's check-forging scandal while heading Columbia Pictures in the late 1970s.

the Afghanistan shura (meeting of clerics) has decided to ask Osama bin Laden to voluntarily leave the country. But who would take him? If OBL gave himselp up, it would aid all those cells he has all over by centruting the attention on him. This is so complicated because it is not just him. In Israel everyone has gas masks, I think it would be prudent on our side to to the same.

centruting should be concentrating.

The Taliban have issued an edict that asks OBL to leave Afghanistan: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/010920/80/c4q2r.html

I work for an airline company. It's the saddest day in my company today. 25% of people in my department are leaving (most of them have already left by now). I've survived at this time but don't feel happy at all! People, whom I worked with for years and some of them became very good friends, are let go. Tears in many people's eyes no matter they stay or go. I'm feeling so depressed. It feels like an airplane just hit the building when I work (which is the headquarter of the company). Just think that we had several new positions opening for hire a week before the attack. I may survive for this cut but who knows the next time I'd survive?

janes.com: 19 September 2001 Who did it? Foreign Report presents an alternative view Israel�s military intelligence service, Aman, suspects that Iraq is the state that sponsored the suicide attacks on the New York Trade Center and the Pentagon in Washington. Directing the mission, Aman officers believe, were two of the world�s foremost terrorist masterminds: the Lebanese Imad Mughniyeh, head of the special overseas operations for Hizbullah, and the Egyptian Dr Ayman Al Zawahiri, senior member of Al-Qaeda and possible successor of the ailing Osama Bin Laden. The two men have not been seen for some time. Mughniyeh is probably the world�s most wanted outlaw. Unconfirmed reports in Beirut say he has undergone plastic surgery and is unrecognisable. Zawahiri is thought to be based in Egypt. He could be Bin Laden�s chief representative outside Afghanistan.

Re: the James Woods story Just because something is repeated does not, in itself, make a story credible. Let's look at who the 'reporters' are. Cindy Adams: a gossip columnist, relating heresay. I do not doubt James Woods saw what he saw and reported it as described, but how can it be concluded these *were* the same terrorists? Or even terrorists at all? Did he positively ID them? 'Reportedly paying cash'--how does James or Cindy know this? She also blames Logan Security when security at the Portland, Maine airport is also culpable. Scott Huver, Hollywood.com (c'mon, H'wood.com? We're not exactly talking 60 Minutes here): Scott essentially re-writes Cindy's story except he states Woods took the flight one month before 9-11 whereas Cindy said it was one week. He then embellishes with some common knowledge quotes. IMO one should not jump to conclusions based on this level of reporting and should use the term 'credible' with care.

Just because something is repeated does not, in itself, make a story credible... IMO one should not jump to conclusions based on this level of reporting.(Eileen) Good point, but I think it applies to every "level of reporting" right now. (Especially right now.) There have been quite a few stories circulated that turned out to be incorrect even in the "main stream" press. I do think it makes sense that the terrorists would have made "trial runs" to check out the exact conditions on the flights.

(Suzee) I think it applies to every "level of reporting" right now. Good point right back at 'cha, but I'd like to think things are settling down in the true mainstream press. Last week it was mass hysteria.

Just because something is repeated does not, in itself, make a story credible... IMO one should not jump to conclusions based on this level of reporting.(Eileen) Good point, but I think it applies to every "level of reporting" right now. (Especially right now.) There have been quite a few stories circulated that turned out to be incorrect even in the "main stream" press. I do think it makes sense that the terrorists would have made "trial runs" to check out the exact conditions on the flights.

I'm taking the Woods story with the grain of salt it deserves, but if true has much broader consequences. This is an article on the international system used to move money to the terrorists and the moves to stop it. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/20/business/20MONE.html

Finally, a major, reputable news source has picked this James Woods thing up. Reuters. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010919/en/people-woods_1.html Pretty much the same information in this Reuters piece with the exception of this elaboration: Woods declined to publicly discuss his experience, first reported by New York Post columnist Cindy Adams and confirmed by his spokeswoman, Susan Madore. In a brief statement, the actor said, ``I think it prudent not to comment on this and let the FBI continue do their job, which they seem to be doing superbly right now.'' Woods, 54, who studied at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology before pursuing an acting career, is best known for playing heavies and misfits.

It's now being reported the Woods flight was a month before not a week as reported in the gossip column.

At least two of the "hijackers" supposedly found alive and well. Doubts emerge over identities of hijackers in US attacks WASHINGTON, Sept 20 (AFP) - US officials are investigating whether some or all of the 19 hijackers on the four hijacked aircraft used in last week's terror attacks used stolen identities, possibly complicating efforts to link them to Osama bin Laden. The doubts started to emerge when at least four men with names matching those on an FBI list of the hijackers turned up alive in Saudi Arabia and Tunisia, according to newspaper reports. An unnamed senior US official told Thursday's Washington Post that there was now uncertainty over the list of names. "There may be some question with regard to the identity of at least some of them," he said. ......... FBI director Robert Mueller said last week as he released what he said were the names of the hijackers that his bureau had "a fairly high level of confidence" that they were their true identities. But at least one Arabic newspaper, the Saudi-owned Asharq al-Awsat, said this week it had found two of the Saudis named on the list, Abdelaziz al-Omari and Said Hussein Gharamallah al-Ghamdi, alive and well. Article: http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/afp/article.html?s=asia/headlines/010920/technology/afp/Doubts_emerge_over_identities_of_hijackers_in_US_attacks.html

i heard about the stolen identities too. prayers and love to all....

Plus the families of two of the hihackers have said, their relative was not one of the hijackers, including this Mohammad Atta dude. They are claiming identity fraud too. A bit hard to belive when you consider Atta has been on the FBI's list of suspected criminals, for a long time.

(Rob)MSG 436 sums up just about every country capable of providing aid bar New Zealand. Do we not exist? - I copied that information from a couple of different sites. It is entirely possible that I missed New Zealand :-( -- or it was not on the lists I used -- but I looked around and found this: NEW ZEALAND: Has offered the use of Special Air Services commandos and New Zealand intelligence resources in any action against those responsible for the terrorist attacks. ----------------- Here's to New Zealand: �God of nations at Thy feet In the bonds of love we meet. Hear our voices, we entreat, God defend our Free Land. Guard Pacific's triple star� And why if it "can be found on two large islands and a host of smaller islands" is it called "triple star"? (Gee, I hope the lyrics are correct!)

This is really spooky I just received by email : a.. A flight number from one of the planes that hit one of the twin towers was Q33NY. b.. In MS Word or Wordperfect, type in that flight number (in capitals) - Q33NY c.. Enlarge the font size to 26 and then change the font to Wingdings or Wingdings1

This is really spooky I just received by email : a.. A flight number from one of the planes that hit one of the twin towers was Q33NY. b.. In MS Word or Wordperfect, type in that flight number (in capitals) - Q33NY c.. Enlarge the font size to 26 and then change the font to Wingdings or Wingdings1

Sorry..for phantom postings

Hi all I thought I would post this as my own perspective on the Taliban, the case with the Muslim population world wide, the case of the Middle East and the possible effect on the world economy. My perspective comes from having talked to Mum and Dad who have been to Pakistan and Afghanistan, from learning and research I did on my own accord on the Middle East powder keg, from Political Science and from Geography where we examined the United States foreign policy (not as applied to a Middle Eastern nation). In 1979 the country of Nicaragua was ripe for revolt, with a regime in power despised by the people and in command of a military that was beginning to lean toward the people. The regime was recognised by the United States among other countries and it allowed environmentally unfriendly practices to be maintained by foreign companies of mainly Western origin. A politician named Sandinista however began a revolution the following year that swept him into power with the support of the people of Nicaragua. It was a socialist government (NOT COMMUNIST)that formed and immediately began instituting sweeping reform basic social welfare, health, education, and economic programmes the latter of which were based on principles of environmental sustainability. The program involved the passing of the first ever environmental laws for the country which restricted the amount of forest that could be logged and set standards for mines. Someone in the Ronald Reagan found out and pressed the President into allowing the CIA to wage government sponsored crime in the country by burning down the forests, and funding anti Sandinista factions to topple the government. The secretly funded war that CIA agents waged in the country crippled Nicaragua at the one time when it was making it's first substantial economic progress ever. The same President decreased spending on just about everything to fund a huge programme of capital expenditure on the United States military which had operatives in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets, who were immediately withdrawn without any gratitude to Afghanistan (or Pakistan from where they were based) as soon as the Soviets withdrew. Pakistan inherited many problems created by the sudden United States departure which to some extent the Pakistani government could not have satisfactorily sorted out itself. That upset many Muslims and since the United States is a powerful ally of Israel whose Jews are age old foes of the Muslims, the United States became a target of anger. None of this ever justified terrorism on ANY scale let alone the scale of last weeks attacks, but it may have been part of a trigger for the strikes on New York and Washington D.C. Osama bin Laden has begun a holy war and I suspect that the Middle East with it's sharp divisions between Arabs and Israelis, Muslims and Jews has the capacity to become a giant conflagration of war if certain issues are not sorted out. The entire Western World is at fault to some extent (United States, Britain, Australia, France, Germany, Canada, New Zealand and like countries)on this issue. We take the oil of those countries to drive our economies while putting minimal investment back in by mploying people at dirt cheap rates in some cases and this is not an exaggeration NZ$1 (US$.44c) a day. We treat their environments with contempt and make no effort to clean up the mess, and we contribute to the cycle of poverty that ensures these countries STAY poor. New Zealand is at fault because we get shirts and clothes really cheaply from Indonesia (a Muslim nation with 200 million people), and probably places like Pakistan and India. We expect them to be democratic and freedom when we can at TIMES hardly call the governments of our nations freedom loving either. I think there is a low but very REAL chance that a showdown sometime in the next few decades between the West and Islam is looming, and I think it may engulf at least the entire Middle East when it does come. So how did this mess come about?? In part Western consumerism is to blame for the economic ills and lack of investment in the countries where we have set up Multi-national corporations, and in part to misguided policies passed by the governments of those nations who have large Muslim populations. What can we do?? All countries have a role to play in this though the largest role will be that of the United States, because it takes the most out of the Islamic nations. United States Foreign policy on things like trade is going to have to change or it risks permanently damaging relations with the entire Islamic world. Changes need not be sweeping but they need to be on things like free trade (without tariffs), and a concept of "fair trade" that involves trade deals that disadvantage neither side are being promoted by some. How the Department of State sees environmental protocols will have to change as it is hurting traditional European friends/allies as much as it hurts poorer nations. People, I know that this sounds like a lot but in reality, it is not all that much in comparison with the gains to be had from a peaceful world. I know that my views are greatly different from some and that so soon after the terrorist attacks it may hurt to hear this, but you will hear sooner or later anyway when the world looks at WHY the social conditions favoured the faceless cowards who stormed the aircraft that were used in the terrorist strikes. It is time for people to realise that Western nations cannot always get away with what they want, and that sooner or later someone with a monumental hatred for what we stand for is going to strike. We can strike back and strike hard, but it is as much about prevention as it is about anything else. Finally, I have seen in documentaries and read in techno-thrillers about terrorists and now I have seen terrorism in action, and I can tell you that I want it dead as much as anyone else. The Taliban has announced it is preparing for a holy war just as you announced a war of some sort. I support the war in that it will show a united front which is clearly not what the terrorists had envisioned but there are limits to it all. At the end of the day we Westerners are going to have to make some sacrifices to our material wealth, because plainly to stop the social conditions that support this sort of evil, nothing less will do. Rob

Secret memo reveals US plan to overthrow Taliban regime Friday September 21, 2001 The Guardian The US government is pressing its European allies to agree to a military campaign to topple the Taliban regime in Afghanistan and replace it with an interim administration under United Nations auspices. Diplomatic cables from the Washington embassy of a key Nato ally, seen by the Guardian, report that the US is keen to hear allied views on "post-Taliban Afghanistan after the liberation of the country". The embassy cable reveals that the US administration is bent on force to evict the Taliban from power because of the shelter it has offered Osama bin Laden, named by the White House as prime suspect for the New York and Washington atrocities on September 11. The Guardian has also learned that two large US Hercules transport aircraft landed in Tashkent, capital of the former Soviet republic of Uzbekistan, on Tuesday loaded with surveillance equipment to be installed along the northern Afghan border. The secret landing represented a radical departure since it appeared to herald the deployment of squadrons of US fighters at Uzbekistan's sprawling airfield at Termez, directly on the border. Such a build-up would incur the wrath of Russia which views the central Asian republics as its backyard. .......................... The US strategy to depose the Taliban regime is based on more than military thinking. A further plank appears to entail supporting the campaign of the exiled 86-year-old monarch of Afghanistan, King Zahir Shah, to return to power by encouraging the guerrilla army of the Northern Alliance opposition to fall in behind him. Complete article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,555530,00.html

At the end of the day we Westerners are going to have to make some sacrifices to our material wealth, because plainly to stop the social conditions that support this sort of evil, nothing less will do. Good point, Rob. the US is keen to hear allied views on "post-Taliban Afghanistan after the liberation of the country". Some people may find this statement very arrogant. From syndicated columnist JONATHAN POWER Is it possible for America to say 'Sorry'? September 20, 2001 LONDON - How should the United States fight Osama bin Laden? It could start by saying sorry. Despite two centuries of rapid immigration pulling in people from all over the world, America remains a predominantly Christian nation. It is not a Jewish one and certainly not an Islamic one. It draws its inspiration from another book, mightier, it believes, than the Old Testament or the Koran, although it shares common roots with both these religions and worships the same God. If Christianity is not about saying sorry and turning the other cheek what, at the end of the day, is so special about it? We have a lot to be sorry for. After all it was Christian societies that practised slavery. It was a Christian society that tolerated the long persecution and then the obliteration of the Jews. (Islamic societies, even in their worst times, have never set about the extermination of the Jewish people.) And in a more recent era it is Christian societies which stirred up war in Africa in their quest for Cold War allies, destroyed Afghanistan, the scorched refuge of bin Laden, in a misplaced and unnecessary attempt to aid the resistance to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and allowed the legitimate desire of the Jewish people to own their own state to degenerate into the contemporary world's worst example of military occupation and imperialistic land acquisition. Perhaps it seems extraordinary that a political writer should have nothing better to say than "say sorry". In a week when innocent bodies in New York and Washington are being buried, when children cry all night for their lost parents, when lonely widows and widowers ask themselves how they will ever take another step forward through life, is this the time for contrition? It is hard to make the argument, that I know. But where does hatred take us, where does revenge, where does it end if, as President George Bush says, "there are no rules"? Do we want to make the situation worse or do we want to take a momentous leap of imagination and reach out to make it better? The military solution, however sympathetically one looks at it, appears at the very least counterproductive. As a recent publication by the hard headed International Institute for Strategic Studies argued it, going after the Taleban regime in Afghanistan will likely destabilise its friendly neighbour Pakistan and throw a nuclear-armed country into the hands of the militants. Beyond that, what would be the point of inflaming Islamic societies everywhere if it led to the fall of the fundamentalist (but friendly) government of Saudi Arabia? If Saudi Arabia were ruled in a fashion true to its Wahhabi ultra- fundamentalist creed not only would there be no U.S. troops on Saudi soil, it would be an end to the (uneasy) coalition against Saddam Hussein, there would be a cataclysmic shortfall in western oil supplies, and the turning of Saudi missiles from pointing towards Iraq in the direction of Israel instead. It would also probably push Saudi Arabia to develop nuclear weapons to put on the nose of its nuclear-capable rockets it bought from China, and this to threaten Israel with. Is America going to occupy Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to forestall that scenario? Then the house would really fall in. The reason America has reached this fork in the road is because, as with so many other issues, America has put off biting the bullet on hard problems. Politicians and the media have connived to keep the populace ignorant of what is going on in the world. Only in extreme times of emergency - such as the current one and the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait- is there an intense effort made to educate public opinion, and then that is done at a fever pitch with truth and objectivity being given short shrift. Yet all over the world there are silent emergencies that have continued to be combated half heartedly, whilst they have developed a head of power that in the end steamrollers all modest solutions. This is as true of global warming as it is of the Israeli settlement policy on Palestinian land. This is as true of the spread of AIDS and other highly infectious diseases as it is of the West's over-consumption of energy. This is as true of the proliferation of nuclear weapons, for want of a disarmament lead from the ex-Cold War nuclear powers, as it is of the Western tolerance of child labour in factories making their consumer goods. This is as true of children dying in Africa and other Third World countries for want of pure drinking water and the lack of education of young girls as it is of the ubiquitous use of torture because of the ever slow response of Western governments to pre-empt deteriorating human rights situations, indeed often propping up repressive regimes with financial credits and arms sales. (And, by the way, where would America try a captured bin Laden if not before the International Criminal Court to which it is bitterly opposed?) To lay all these problems at America's feet is to ignore Europe's own culpability. The old continent, if perhaps on occasion wiser and better informed about the rest of the world, has only intermittently done much better. Now it must wake up too. To say sorry is but the beginning. Then the work must start. To read more articles from all over the world go here: http://www.transnational.org/sitemap.html

Did anyone see a teleprompter last night for Pres. Bush? He couldn't have memorized and delivered the speech so well. It was the best he's ever done live.

MaryW: A flight number from one of the planes that hit one of the twin towers was Q33NY. Don't let Wingdings experts mess with your head, Mary. The flights that hit the towers were numbered 11 and 77, the other two hijacked flights 175 and 93. Also, the Nostradamus lines being broadcast around the Web ("twin brothers shall be rent in fire, yadda, yadda") are made up.

Sorry? I haven't read the above article and don't feel the inclination to. We have Jesse Jackson trying to get monies to the offspring of slaves? I'm sorry, but that is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. If that's the case then, perhaps we should start doling money out to every Japanese American who were sent into camps during WW2 or the Koreans during the Korean War? Hell, we should pay Britain for "allowing" us to win the war in 1776. Why should WE say sorry? We are a nation built on different ethnicities and backgrounds. Slavery made this country, it built our civil rights, and our Bill of Rights, out of bad, some good may come. What we have is a nation (Afghanistan) who is run by fundamentalist nutjobs. The Taliban is EVIL. They are trying to infiltrate as many countries as they can with their idealogy mumbo jumbo. They are not Muslims? They are whacked out religious freaks who say they speak the word or Allah. And Allah comandeered them to take our airplanes, use them as missiles, against CIVILIANS, who were just working, like the rest of the world. Not plotting to overtake a government, or throw their religious beliefs on everyone else. I know I'm just ranting, but we don't owe anyone an apology. Our governmental policies are in use because they work. Iraq says it's our fault. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell (GO AWAY BOTH OF YOU) blame our moral values. They said it was our fault. No one, absolutely NO ONE, deserves to die the way helpless civilians dies on September 11, 2001. end of rant.

A summary of OBL's finances in The Times http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001320010-2001325324,00.html

David Kline: If we end up bombing the Afghan capital (or other populated targets), it'll be because Washington lacked the patience and willingness to ally with freedom-loving Afghans in the country and gather the human intelligence needed to locate Bin Laden and his Taliban benefactors. In other words, it'll be a de facto admission of defeat. If you really want Bin Laden, you have to: * Use local people to locate him. * Move swiftly without alerting him or his Taliban supporters (which probably means employing a joint US-Afghan (anti-Taliban) team. If we just start flying around in Bin Laden's general area, using electronic intelligence gathered from his communications to hone in on him, he'll be gone before his tea gets cold. And I mean *gone.* In that part of the country -- a lot like Utah only hotter and more difficult to traverse -- there are thousands of little cave hideouts and hundreds of Taliban-dominated villages where he could hide out and slink away. The borders near Quetta, Pakistan are completely porous -- even if the Pak's tried with all their might to seal them, it couldn't be done. There are also nomadic tribespeople moving in caravans constantly across both Iran's and Pakistan's borders with Afghanistan where a guy in a turban with a half-dozen bodyguards could easily blend in. So "chasing" Bin Laden on the run won't work. You've got to find him and move in quickly, **before** he runs, and for that you need anti-Taliban Afghan intelligence. There's simply no other way to attack him effectively. Of course, if Washington just wants to blow off steam and waste a few hundred or thousand innocent Afghans, then none of the above applies. It'll look good on TV, maybe, but it won't get Bin Laden or the Taliban. A finger of David Kline reveals: I'm a journalist and author, former war correspondent (until, genius that I am, I finally figured out I should find something safer to do) and sometime business strategy consultant. I used to be a HotWired columnist and Upside columnist till they gave me the boot for ideological impurity. But I'm still a commentator on NPR's "Marketplace" business program and I'm still writing books. So I guess I'm not a complete screw-up. My first book was published by Dutton in 1995 -- "Road Warriors: Dreams and Nightmares Along the Information Highway." My latest will be published by Harvard Business School Press in the Fall of 1999 -- "Rembrandts in the Closet: Wielding Intellectual Property for Competitive Advantage." I would add that he's been on the scene in Afghanistan as a war correspondent.

(Moon) It was the best he's ever done live. Practice makes perfect and so does good coaching. I was grateful he didn't appear to be sounding out the words as he has in earlier speeches. (Laura) perhaps we should start doling money out to every Japanese American who were sent into camps during WW2 Psst, Laura, it was done. You've never heard of reparation? =8-O

David Kline (dkline) Thu 13 Sep 01 08:30 I'd like to try to clear up some mis-information about how the US supposedly "supplied", "trained" or "created" Bin Laden. I reported from Afghanistan from 1979-1987, and I can tell you absolutely that such was not the case. The US supplied arms & money to a variety of factions of the mujahadeen, but did so only through the Pakistani intelligence serevices (SIS), which funneled most arms to Gulbadin Hekmatyar, an ideological precursor to the Taliban and types like Bin Laden. Pakistan had its own reasons for doing so -- these fanatics did very little fighting against the Russians (unlike genuine leaders like Ahmed Shah Massoud), preferring to fight other resistance factions -- and I and others warned US officials of the consequences of allowing arms to be directed towards the fundamentalists. But US officials insisted their "hands were tied" in this matter, and whether true or not, there it is. How did the Taliban win? Consider that Afghan society, almost entirely tribal rather than "national" toi begin with, was utterly destroyed by the Soviets durinbg the war. 1-tenth the population killed; 1/3 of the survivords forced to flee as refuygees. The systematic destruction of Afghan intelligentsia by Soviet-directed police forces resulted in a statistical decline in the literacy rate. Into this vacumn the Taliban, financed and armerd by Saudi extremists, entered.

A lot more of David Klines thoughts on this: http://www.spring.net/dkline.html

Hey, that Jonathan Power is some dude. Am I reading: Get a Marshall Plan organized for Afghanistan? Wonder how many votes that would get. *shaking head*

[from the Hollywood Reporter] Studios tighten security following FBI terror alert Sep. 21, 2001 Terrorists leveled threats Thursday against Hollywood's major film studios, prompting each to seriously reconsider existing security measures that suddenly seemed far too mild for the current political climate. Some studios partially evacuated their facilities late in the afternoon. Internal memos, usually in the form of an e-mail issued by high-ranking studio executives, buzzed throughout Hollywood on Thursday, warning of threats of mass destruction, presumably from Islamic terrorists. Insiders said studio heads first learned of the threat from MPAA president Jack Valenti, who was briefed by U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft, who specifically mentioned a threat of a suicide bomber. An FBI statement released late Thursday, though, was more vague about the exact nature of the threat. The threat's purpose, though, was specifically laid out by the FBI: If the U.S. attacks Afghanistan, a studio will be bombed. "Today the FBI provided a threat advisory to the major movie studios in Los Angeles," FBI spokesman Matt McLaughlin said. "The uncorroborated threat states that a film studio in California could be the target of a terrorist bombing attack in retaliation for any possible bombing attacks by the United States against Afghanistan. In an abundance of caution, the FBI has provided this threat advisory. The FBI is working closely with the studios regarding this matter." Insiders said that those making the threat will target a major film studio because American values and culture -- anathema to fundamentalist Islamic terrorists -- are distributed throughout the world via Hollywood movies.

Here is a report that Osama has been rushed toward the Chinese border by the Taliban: http://www.frontierpost.com.pk/main.asp?id=2&date1=9/21/2001 This one indicates that he left even before the shura met. http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/sep2001-daily/21-09-2001/main/main2.htm

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ Last summer, while the American media kept the people distracted with "All Condit All The Time", the US Government was informing other governments that we would be at war in Afghanistan, no later than October! How lucky for our government that just when they are planning to invade another country, for the express purpose of removing that government, a convenient "terrorist" attack occurs to anger Americans into support for an invasion. Sound impossible? Not when you consider that accused terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden is actually an employee of the CIA, who trained and financed him. And guess who paid for the training of the Hijackers? YOU DID, according to NEWSWEEK and MSNBC. From Alleged Hijackers May Have Trained at U.S. Bases The Pentagon has turned over military records on five men to the FBI By George Wehrfritz, Catharine Skipp and John Barry NEWSWEEK Sept. 15 U.S. military sources have given the FBI information that suggests five of the alleged hijackers of the planes that were used in Tuesdays terror attacks received training at secure U.S. military installations in the 1990s. Leonard Pitts column: http://www.contracostatimes.com/opinion/columnists/pitts/stories/xxpitts_20010921.htm "LET'S GET something straight. The events of Sept. 11 did not happen because we did something wrong. Or because we somehow "deserved" them. In recent days, I've heard that argument or variations thereof from several friends and dozens of e-mail correspondents. This must be what "they" feel like when we bomb "them," says one. Perhaps they acted out of deep hurt, says another. Maybe this is necessary payback for American arrogance, says yet another. And then, of course, there's the ever-reliable Jerry Falwell, who said on "The 700 Club" last week that the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon represent God's verdict on gay rights, feminism, abortion and the ACLU. In a word, no. To all of the above, to all the tortured reflection and moral distress: no. Hell no.".... "Last week happened, pure and simple, because certain religious extremists hate us. They hate us because our foreign policy has been supportive of Israel. They hate us because we helped repel Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991. But in the larger sense, they hate us because their children want blue jeans, Britney Spears videos and the chance to be like Mike. They hate us because we consume bacon and beer. They hate us because American women wear bikinis and speak their minds. They hate us because we are the biggest, the wealthiest, the most influential, the most powerful. They hate us because we are not them and, moreover, because they are not us. They hate us because they think the deity requires it. They hate us because."

It may be true that James Woods saw the hijackers: 09/21/2001 - Updated 03:07 PM ET Investigators: Hijackers repeatedly scouted flights By Kevin Johnson, Toni Locy and Richard Willing, USA TODAY The terrorists who staged last week's murderous attacks apparently practiced for months by repeatedly riding the flights they later hijacked, learning jet crews' patterns, counting passenger loads and testing airline security, the FBI now believes. The 19 hijackers, probably aided by accomplices who are still alive, began scouting for flights to hijack and making dry runs as early as April, law enforcement sources say. Some of the hijackers are believed to have entered the USA then. Authorities confirmed the finding by checking flight manifests and airport security camera tapes. They also interviewed airline employees. Investigators had suspected that the four hijacked flights � two from Boston and one each from Newark, N.J., and Dulles International Airport in suburban Washington � had been carefully chosen, in part because each was full of fuel for a cross-country trip and had a relatively light passenger load. The lack of passengers would have made it easier for the four or five Muslim extremists on each jet to keep those aboard under control and overwhelm the cockpit crews. Authorities say they also now believe that the killers scouted other flights as hijacking candidates but eliminated them from consideration. The findings add texture to the portrait that is emerging of the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. The hijackings, sources say, were meticulously planned and required large sums of money, dozens of helpers and coordination among teams. Investigators have not ruled out the possibility that a central figure who set the attacks in motion still could be at large. � Copyright 2001 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/21/hijackers-usat.htm

From the NY Times, more on the hijackers' identities: September 21, 2001 Confusion Over Names Clouds Identities of Attackers on Jets By NEIL MacFARQUHAR CAIRO, Sept. 20 � Many of the 19 hijacking suspects in the terror attacks last week remain shrouded in confusion, with almost nothing known about some and up to five apparent cases of mistaken identity. The F.B.I. list of hijacking suspects does include the names of at least six missing Saudi Arabian men who left their country, ostensibly to join the Islamic fighters battling the Russians in Chechnya, plus four others whose parents have lost contact with them. But the lack of the details about the suspects, plus the assertions of mistaken identity, have left their parents refusing to mourn and Saudi Arabian officials dismissive of the entire list. "The haste in publishing the names of suspects in the attacks has made the media fall into the error of involving innocent people, especially Saudis," Prince Mit'eb bin Abdullah, the deputy commander of the Saudi National Guard, complained to reporters in Riyadh. The use of wrong names and pictures may indicate that the hijackers filched the identities of fellow Saudis. In the United States, Robert Mueller, the director of the F.B.I., acknowledged Thursday that there were questions about the identities of several of the hijackers on the list. "We have several hijackers whose identities were those of the names on the manifest, we have several others who are still in question," Mr. Mueller said while touring the crash site in Pennsylvania of one hijacked plane. An official at the Saudi Embassy in Washington said there were five mistaken identities on the list, adding that all the men were alive and living abroad. Saudi officials say part of the problem stems from the proliferation of similar names in Saudi Arabia, as well as the numerous varieties of spelling them in English. One of the most common surnames on the F.B.I. list is Alshehri. But in English various members of the clan might spell it Alshahri or Alshehiri or Al-Shehri, entangling search efforts. Far more difficult is the fact that the country's huge tribes repeat the same names over and over again. Saudis use at least three names: their given name, their father's name, and their tribal name. Between the father's name and the tribal name, many also insert the name of a fourth, favored ancestor. But even brothers do not always choose the same name. To narrow the search to specific individuals, Saudi officials said they needed at least one and preferably two middle names. What they are given to work with now is a lot of Joe Smiths. For example, there might be thousands and thousands of people with the name Waleed Alshehri, one of the men whose name appears on the list of suspects who rammed the first plane into the World Trade Center. For a while, suspicion focused on the son of a Saudi diplomat with that name who had studied at Embry- Riddle Aeronautical University in Florida, but his father said he was alive and working as a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines. The confusion apparently stems from the fact that the F.B.I. is matching the names on the passenger manifests to students who have trained in flying. In the southern Saudi town of Khamis Mushait, however, there is an established businessman named Mohammed Al-Shehri who is missing 2 of his 11 sons. One of them is Waleed Mohammed Al-Shehri. Mr. Waleed, 21, was studying to be a teacher, while his brother Wail, 26, already had a degree in physical education and was teaching, their father told the Saudi newspaper Al- Watan. The older brother was suffering from psychological problems and kept seeking the help of clerics to perform a kind of religious exorcism to cure him, the father said. Both men disappeared in December while on a trip to seek yet more help and have not been heard from since. They had grown increasingly religious before their disappearance and spoke often about joining the fight in Chechnya, the paper quoted family friends as saying. Their pictures match those released by the F.B.I. To try to eliminate confusion, Saudi officials said they had repeatedly asked for more information on the suspects, especially longer names, but they had yet to receive it. Plus, in a few cases it appears the hijackers resorted to outright deception. A passenger using the name Abdel Aziz Al-Omari and the birth date of December 24, 1972, is listed on the manifest of the flight that hit the towers first. But a man with the same name and birth date turned up alive in Riyadh, where he told the Al Sharq Al Awsat daily that he had studied electrical engineering at University of Denver. His passport was stolen there in 1995. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/21/international/middleeast/21IDEN.html?pagewanted=print

(Suzee) It may be true that James Woods saw the hijackers: James Woods appears to be a straight shooter. If the story were materially false, I believe he would have disowned it by now. For those who are unaware of his background, he is quite intelligent and attended MIT. He left a few credits shy of graduation. He has articulately debated against Bill Bennett, the former drug czar, on Face the Nation.

Here are some interesting stats. Get out your little pad and pencil or rev' up your Excel or MS Works spreadsheet and play with these numbers. What do you se? In 1940, the US population was 132 MM, the GNP was 100 BB in constant dollars. In 1940 the US military was 500K men, maybe 300 ships, a few thousand planes. In 1945, the US military was 13.5 million men & women, we had 6000 vessels and 200K aircraft. We had spent nearly $400 BB, nearly twice the 1945 GDP. In 2001, the US military has somewhat less than 200K men & women, 300 ships, a few thousand planes. We have a population of 280 MM and a GDP of $10 trillion. Congress just appropriated $40BB for this war, half of which is earkmarked for NYC. Vietnam cost $140 BB year pop gnp military ships planes year millionsbillionsmillion thousands 1940 132 100 0.5 300 3 1945 ? 400 13.5 6000 200 2001 280 10000 0.2 300 Sorry for the gaps. It looks we need more ships, men and planes. Our gnp is now 10 trillion.

I was there when the first Taliban units were seen in Afghanistan circa 1986. They were all composed of Saudi and other foreign volunteers, and few took them very seriously since they did little actual fighting against the Russians. But they quickly allied with Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hezbi Islami group -- i.e., the fundamentalist wing of the Afghan resistance -- which was receiving the bulk of US arms and aid via Pakistani intelligence (SIS). Then, amidst the confusion and infighting within the resistance following the Soviet withdrawal, the Pak's chose to channel almost all their material support to the Taliban, who used it to gain power over a divided resistance movement and a peoiple utterly exhausted by war. I'd wager that if a free & fair referendum were conducted in Afghanistan today, the Taliban would receive fewer than 5% of the votes. Their army is largely conscript, their most fervent supporters are unsophisticated teenagers insulated in Taliban religious schools. Nothing they say or do has any relationship to historic Afghan customs & attitudes.

Kathy Rockel was amazed when her United Airlines flight last weekend began with an extraordinary message from the pilot: He informed passengers how to rise up and fend off hijackers. ``If anybody stands up and is trying to take over the plane, stand up together, take whatever you have and throw it at their heads,'' she quoted the pilot as saying. ``You have to aim for their faces so they have to defend themselves.'' The pilot also said passengers could fight hijackers by throwing blankets over their heads, wrestling them to the ground and holding them until he landed, Rockel said. And referring to the ``we the people'' preamble to the Constitution, she recalled, he said, ``We will not be defeated.'' ``Everybody on the plane was applauding,'' said Rockel, a medical transcriptionist traveling from Denver to Washington, D.C., Sept. 15 on United's Flight 564. ``People had tears coming down their faces. It was as if we had a choice here, that if something were to happen we're not completely powerless.'' Continued @: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010921/us/attacks_taking_charge_1.html

A few new topics have been created in the news conference to deal with some more specific aspects of the World Trade Center attack and the ensuing global conflict: 43 526 Jumbo Jets crash in to World Trade Center 44 0 Media coverage of WTC attack and the aftermath 45 0 What can we do? What should we do? 46 0 suspension of civil liberties as a response to terrorism 47 0 coping with terrorism and a world gone to war 48 0 economic consequences of global war and terrorism 49 0 Finding Osama Bin Laden 50 0 What is the impact of the wtc crisis where you live?

"A lot of thinking needs to be done, and perhaps is being done in Washington and elsewhere, about the ineptitude of American intelligence and counter- intelligence, about options available to American foreign policy, particularly in the Middle East, and about what constitutes a smart program of military defense." - Susan Sontag "As for America's friends, they have rallied around us with alacrity. On Wednesday, the NATO allies, for the first time ever, invoked the mutual- defense clause of the alliance's founding treaty, formally declaring that "an armed attack" against oneQand what happened on September 11th, whether you call it terrorism or war, was certainly an armed attackQconstitutes an attack against all. This gesture of solidarity puts to shame the contempt the Bush Administration has consistently shown for international treaties and instruments, including those in areas relevant to the fight against terrorism, such as small-arms control, criminal justice, and nuclear proliferation. By now, it ought to be clear to even the most committed ideologues of the Bush Administration that the unilateralist approach it was pursuing as of last Tuesday is in urgent need of revaluation. The world will be policed collectively or it will not be policed at all." - Hendrik Hertzberg Both of these from the recent New Yorker.

A couple of notable quotes from other pieces: In the decade since the end of the Cold War, the human race has become, with increasing rapidity, a single organism. Every kind of barrier to the free and rapid movement of goods, information and people has been lowered. The organism relies increasingly on a kind of trust -- the unsentimental expectation that people, individually and collectively, will behave more or less in their rational self-interest. -- Hendrik Hertzberg How do you take "massive military action" against the infrastructure of a stateless, compartmentalized "army" of fifty, or ten times fifty, whose weapons are rental cars, credit cards, and airline tickets? The scale of the damage notwithstanding, a more useful metaphor than war is crime. The terrorists of September 11th are outlaws within a global polity. They may enjoy the corrupt protection of a state (and corruption, like crime, can be ideological or spiritual as well as pecuniary in motive). But they do not constitute or control a state and do not even appear to aspir to control one. Their status and numbers are such that the task of dealing with them should be viewed as a police matter, of the most urgent kind. As with all criminal fugitives, the essential job is to find out who and where they are. -- Hendrik Hertzberg But fly again we must; risk is a price of freedom, and walking around Brooklyn Heights that afternoon, as ash drifted in the air and cars were few and open-air lunches continued as usual on Montague Street, renewed the impression that, with all its failings, this is a country worth fighting for. Freedom, reflected in the street's diversity and daily ease, felt palpable. It is mankind's elixir, even if a few turn it to poison. -- John Updike

James Woods was shown tonight answering telephones on the "America: A Tribute to Heroes Telethon". A lot of these rock stars and musicians looked heartbroken as they played and spoke. Paul Simon just sang bridge over Troubled Water and the parade of stars rolls on. Star studded is an understatement.

David Kline again: The Taliban cannot be negotiated with. The council of clerics is more afraid of the Taliban than they are of the U.S. -- the Taliban, after all, are within actual rifle range and constitute a real and present threat, whereas the U.S. is (in their eyes) only a distant and vague *potential* threat. Hence the Council of Clerics decision. These councils, btw, historically have tended to defer to whomever had the biggest and nearest sword. Council of Clerics' decisions tend to drift with the winds of power, and have generally been considered by Afghans to be as binding and as relevant as, say, a Berkeley resolution declaring the city a "nuclear free zone." Anyone seriously wishing to capture Bin Laden or otherwise deal with the Afghan aspect of this problem effectively should not pay much attention to either Taliban or Council of Clerics edicts.

Without reading through a lot of posts to see if anyone answeed Laura, rhetorical question, we did pay reparations to the Japanese Americans we interred in WW2...$25,000 each.

Hi all Jonathan Power, MSG 508: To lay all these problems at America's feet is to ignore Europe's culpability. The older Continent, if only on occasion wiser and better informed about the rest of the world, has only intermittently done much better. Now it must wake up too. Rob: I always wondered if Britain had anything to gain from it's loyalty to the United States, aside from being assured of assistance when it got into it's own troubles. I mean, what is there to gain from always supporting the United States sanctions on Iraq, the unconditional following of the United States when it attacks the Myanmar military regime politics and so on? Does Britain have a rule of basing it's foreign policy on the United States foreign policy? The few exceptions I have noted were the Kyoto Climate Protocol, for the sake of the Protocol, Britain did not have a choice since Bush was determined not to participate and it's relationship with European nations was at stake. This is however one time when I think European were dead on target, and that Japan was wise to support the protocol. Perhaps the best thing the European nations can do is deliver warnings to their embassies in the United States, on things where a potential split is likely, and back it up with a rebuke or rebuttal (call it what you may)of the United States stand if it clashes. The foreign policy of European nations need not be blindly tied as is possibly the case in Britain, with the United States on everything. Surely in one of the most civilised areas of the world, there are people who can give their nations original foreign policy. However, the best thing that can happen is Bush dropping his very arrogant "take it or leave it" attitude which is causing splits among countries that are usually closely tied. Russia and the United States share more in common than they probably think, but Russia has a valid point on the 1972 ABM Treaty, as does Beijing on the missile shield as a whole. I would normally not agree with them on this sort of thing, so this is quite significant coming from me. The worst thing that can happen on this issue is if North Korea decides to restart it's missile program. If this happens the United States has only itself to blame, because Clinton managed to break the ice. Finally, however, Europe can bring itself and the United States to their senses by taking a hard line on things like the Missile shield (which I think is going to restart the arms race and probably bring on a limited form of Cold War). I have absolutely no time for the $30 billion white elephant it may become. So, Europe is as much at fault as it's American neighbour. Rob

The today's climate of terrorism, missile shields seem like overkill, don't they Rob? It wouldn't have helped us 9/11. This is likely to thaw out the US now that we need an international coalition, that's the only way we can combat worldwide terrorism. For a map of how countries are taking sides in this coming global conflict, see 52 1 How do the world's countries line up in the terrorism war? in the news conference.

Much of the Afghan intelligentia was systematically slaughtered between 1978-1982 by KGB-trained Afghan puppet police force. So many, in fact, that it was said to produce a statistical decline in the literacy rate of that country. Many of those that survived and did not flee the country -- e.g., stayed and fought with the resistance -- were then systematically butchered by the Taliban when they began to consolidate power. It's really a shame. There once were several million educated and modern-thinking Afghans like Tamim Ansary, the author of that wonderful article last week on why the Taliban do not respresent Afghanistan.

The above should have been attributed to David Kline.

Both of these from the recent New Yorker. Hendrik Hertzberg, Susan Sontag, John Updike,..... I only read The New Yorker for their cartoons & fiction features. I don't think that fiction authors know any more about international stategies than you or I.

LOL! Add to that list Harold Pinter...

I don't think that fiction authors know any more about international stategies than you or I. Well said, Evelyn! Now that the number of missing/dead has gone up, could someone please post a current list with the total numbers by nationalities.

Absolutely moon, I'll take Christianne Amanpour over Susan Sontag any day as a political commentator.

Fox News has an excellent page with around the world dead and missing, but it has not been updated with the latest figures. http://www.foxnews.com/projects/americaunited/wtc_maps/worldinfo.htm The most recent information: Saturday, September 22 10:33 AM SGT US toll put at 6,818 as countries report more missing NEW YORK, Sept 21 (AFP) - The death toll from the attacks on the United States stood at 6,818 Saturday after 11 more bodies were pulled from the ruins of the World Trade Center. New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani said Friday the number of missing could still fluctuate as officials cross check reports of missing people. More than 60 countries have now reported citizens dead or missing, mostly in New York, one of the world's most cosmopolitan cities. But despite continuing round-the-clock rescue efforts, there was now next to no chance of pulling survivors from the rubble of the World Trade Center. UNITED STATES officials have given tallies that add up to 6,818 dead or missing in all the attacks of September 11, but they have still not established the total number of their nationals among the victims 11 days after the attack. In New York, 6,585 people were killed or listed as missing from the World Trade Center disaster (comprising 252 confirmed dead and 6,333 missing, presumed dead). Workers have identified 183 bodies, including those of 34 firemen. At the Pentagon, 189 people are confirmed dead or missing. So far, 117 bodies have been recovered, of which 52 have been identified as of Friday. The Department of Defense said search and recovery operations would continue. The missing figure at both sites include the 157 passengers and crew of the two hijacked aircraft that crashed into the World Trade Center and the 64 on the one that flew into the Pentagon. Adding the 44 on the hijacked plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, the number of people on the four planes is given as 265. (American Airlines flight 11, the first to hit the twin towers of the WTC, was carrying 92 passengers and crew; United Airlines flight 175, which hit the second tower, had 65 people on board; American Airlines flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon, was carrying 64 people; and United Airlines 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania without reaching its target, had 44 on board.) ARGENTINA said four of its nationals were missing. AUSTRALIA said three of its nationals were confirmed dead. Another 20 who were in the top floors of the World Trade Center were missing, presumed dead, and consular staff in Canberra and New York were looking for another 32 Australians reported as missing. AUSTRIA said around 40 of its nationals were missing, one of them a 25-year-old woman named only as Alexandra H. who worked in a bank in the World Trade Center. BANGLADESH said at least 50 Bangladeshis were presumed killed in the carnage at the World Trade Center, where many worked in restaurants and offices. BELGIUM said one of its nationals was missing. BRAZIL said at least 55 of its nationals were missing. BRITAIN lost around 250 of its citizens, according to New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani. BULGARIA said that one of its citizens was missing. CAMBODIA said it feared that some 20 of its nationals were missing following the attacks. CANADA said three of its nationals were confirmed dead and between 35 and 40 were still missing. CHILE's New York consulate said two of its nationals were missing and feared dead, although more than 250 have been reported missing by relatives. CHINA said two Chinese nationals were killed and another was missing. A man and woman, both in their 60s, died aboard the plane that crashed into the Pentagon. Chinese authorities originally said three people had died, but the foreign ministry revised the figure, saying that a man, Chen Xiaobing, had been rescued from the lower floors of the building. A 41-year-old Chinese was reported missing. COLOMBIA's consulate in New York said two of its nationals were killed -- one aboard an American Airlines plane that slammed into the side of the twin towers -- while 10 others were missing. Earlier, Colombia's Red Cross had said that 295 people were reported missing. While 17 people worked in the twin towers, others may have been present in the area at the time. The CZECH REPUBLIC said 56 of its citizens who had been in the United States were unaccounted for. Of those, up to 15 nationals were thought to have been in New York or Washington at the time of the attacks, according to the foreign ministry. DENMARK's foreign ministry said that all of its citizens previously reported missing had turned up safe and sound and that there had therefore been no Danish casualties in the attacks. The DOMINICAN REPUBLIC said one citizen, a paramedic, was found dead and 30 are missing, according to the country's consulate in New York. ECUADOR listed seven citizens as dead, including one who was a passenger on a hijacked airliner, and 29 missing. EGYPT's ambassador to the United States said four Egyptians were feared dead. EL SALVADOR said one of its citizens died on one of the hijacked planes, and up to 100 more were missing. FINLAND said that none of its nationals were missing, having earlier said three people were unaccounted for. The Finnish consulate in New York originally said it was trying to track down 17 nationals. FRANCE said a small number of its nationals working in the World Trade Center were unaccounted for. A foreign ministry spokesman said no French dead have yet been confirmed. GAMBIA said that one of its citizens who worked in the World Trade Center was presumed dead. GERMANY said it was "highly probable" that 100 Germans had been killed in New York. Estimates of the total German toll have fallen from 600 last Friday to 270 at the weekend, and fewer than 170 by Monday evening. GHANA said "scores" of its nationals had worked in the World Trade Center and not all had been accounted for. According to private radio, at least four Ghanaians, one a woman, have been reported missing by their families. GUATEMALA said five of its citizens are missing. GUINEA lost several citizens in the attacks, according to the PANA news agency, although neither government officials nor local press could confirm the report. HONG KONG said 16 people were missing. HONDURAS said one of its nationals was killed at the trade center and that three other Honduran women were missing, but added that it had information that up to 500 Hondurans and Salvadorans worked in the towers, although not necessarily at the time of the disaster. HUNGARY said it had contacted 102 of the 143 Hungarian nationals reported missing by relatives after the attacks. The foreign ministry said it had no information indicating that any might be among the victims. INDONESIA said one of its citizens died on one of the four hijacked planes and another of its citizens was missing. IRELAND said five Irish citizens had been confirmed dead, including a woman and her four-year-old daughter who perished aboard one of the jets that hit the World Trade Center and a worker in one of the towers. More than 20 other Irish nationals were missing. ISRAEL said at least four of its nationals were presumed dead, two on the doomed flights and two in the twin towers, and another 60 were unaccounted for. A foreign ministry spokesman said the toll could still fall as more people were traced. ITALY said 10 Italian nationals were still missing, according to consular authorities. JAPAN said as many as 44 of its nationals remain unaccounted for, 20 more than officially listed as missing. Twenty-two of the presumed victims worked at Japanese-affiliated offices in the World Trade Center. One is believed to have been aboard one of the planes which crashed into them, and another is missing after United Airlines Flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania. JORDAN said one of its nationals, who also had US citizenship, was believed to be in the World Trade Center at the time of the attack. KENYA was missing one national, a computer analyst who worked in the World Trade Center, according to local media. LEBANON said two of its nationals, including one of the suspected hijackers, are confirmed dead and four others are missing. MALAYSIA said four of its nationals working in the World Trade Center were missing. MEXICO was missing 20 nationals in the attacks on the World Trade Center, including a consular employee. The Mexican consul in New York, Salvador Beltran, said 150 Mexicans worked in the center, though media said hundreds more worked in restaurants on the lower levels and in the immediate vicinity. Tepayac, a network of Mexican community organizations, said as many as 500 Mexicans are feared dead in the collapsed towers. THE NETHERLANDS said at least three of its citizens had died. NORWAY said one tourist is unaccounted for, but there was no indication he had been at the World Trade Center. NIGERIA said one person was dead and four missing or wounded, Nigerian Consul General Tafiq Oseni said in New York. The victim was a woman working as an accountant in the World Trade Center's Windows on the World restaurant. Leading newspaper The Guardian reported, however, that the figure for missing nationals may be far higher. PAKISTAN said one Pakistani was confirmed dead and at least 200 were missing. Another 15 were injured, some seriously, after being pulled from the rubble. A government spokesman said around 650 Pakistani nationals worked in the World Trade Center. PARAGUAY said two of its citizens were missing and presumed dead. PERU lost one citizen, a New York resident who worked in the World Trade Center, according to local media, and Peruvian diplomats in the United States said another five Peruvians were missing. THE PHILIPPINES said two Filipinos were confirmed dead and 115 were missing. POLAND said five of its citizens were reported missing. PORTUGAL said five Portuguese were believed to have died in the World Trade Center. RUSSIA said 117 of its nationals were missing, believed killed.

Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 12:25:26 -0400 From: "cpmcnel@usit.net" To: "terry@www.spring.net" Subject: RE: WTC - How do you feel? [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] Hi Paul, Carol Nelson here. I am in south Florida baby sitting my grandchildren. We drove down The Farm last week through hurricane Gabriella. My Daughter Kim McCusker and her husband Paul are in NYC, ground zero. They are part of the search and rescue team deployed from the Miami-Dade Area. They are both highly trained K-9 search and rescue fire fighters.They have been there about a week already and will probably not retutn until the end of next week. So we are getting first hand info on a daily basis. Not Good! I have a friend that works around the block on Broad street. She called me after the first hit and we were on the phone when the second plane hit. You could hear and feel it thru the phone lines. I heard Michael Gavin's cousin was in one of the bulidings and is missing. All the talk of WAR is so bad. So hard to hear and think about. All I can do is continue to pray for peace. Peace Carol

Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 15:23:33 -0700 From: Gerald Wheeler To: Paul Terry Walhus Subject: Re: WTC - How do you feel? it is now about midnight sept. 21, 2001...autumn equinox, i am in oakland california, i just finished watching the a's beat seattle in the first game of a three game series, between innings i flipped over a channel to watch what most everyone else that was watching television tonight was probably watching, the fund-raiser and tribute to those who died ten days ago in the attacks on the wtc and the pentagon and the final plane that was brought down most likely by a group of courageous passengers who took on the hijackers and crashed that plane in a field in pennsylvania, so many heroes keep emerging from the center of the tragedy, and what a powerful assembly there on the tv, i am moved by the sense that we as a nation, for the first time in my memory, have been brought together like never before, and it's real and it's full of power and authenticity and i catch a glimmer of something inside of me that suddenly says that america really is worth saving, and i let that glimmer grow into more of a flame and i see that for all of its' faults, there just isn't anything or any other place like this place and the freedom that it provides everyone of us who share its' soil...i think about what to do about achieving justice and how it is a good idea to take the time to let things settle in the mind and calm that which cries out for revenge, because revenge is knee-jerk and full of anger and confusion and does not offer real satisfaction because its' results are uneven and because an uneven response creates more suffering...i think about who or what the enemy really is and i come to the conclusion that the enemy is not the taliban or hezbollah or the islamic jihad or osama bin laden or fundamentalist christians or fundamentalist jews or fundamentalist moslems or jerry falwell or yassar arrafat or north korea or chevron oil or suicide bombers or the bible or the koran...it is evil...the real enemy is simply evil, evil in whatever form and shape it may incarnate into at any time or place, and i think about how it is imperative that we learn to recognize evil in all its' forms and whenever and wherever it appears, and that we take sufficient care to respond in ways in which its' effects are cancelled and diffused, and this applies to the everyday, right under our nose kinds of evil, out to the broader, affecting all of humanity kinds as well, and that how we respond will determine the outcome of events in the future, and i think about what that means to me individually and i am reminded of how grateful i am that i have a way to get calm, that i learned how to meditate thirty years ago and try to practice on a regular basis, oh it doesn't always prevent one from getting caught in the cross-fire but sometimes it seems like it helps slow down the bullets so that you can see where to not step, non-action thru action, and makes you aware that everything begins in the mind, everything, so the key is to tame the fury of the mind, and transform pain and hardship into compassion and real strength by doing so, we individually hold the answer to our situation but to see that clearly we must first conquer the fury...om mani padme om! --all the best, gerald wheeler

David Kline (dkline) Sat Sep 22 '01 (12:11) 49 lines There's also a difference between saying the US "created" Bin Laden and the Taliban and saying -- much more correctly -- that our policies *contributed* (mostly indirectly) to their emergence and rise to power. The US funded the already-fighting Afghan resistance to Soviet occupation beginning in the early 1980s -- as well it should have. But the problem was, beginning in about 1983-84 and despite warnings from many people (l'il ol' me included), the US allowed the Pakistani intelligence services (SIS) to channel the great bulk of that aid to the fanatical fundamentalist wing of the resistance, called Hezbi Islami. (And just to be clear, the fundamentalists did almost NO fighting against the Russians during the war. They concentrated their fire on rival resistance groups such as Ahmed Shah massoud's "Northern Alliance.") The Paks had their own reasons for doing this, of course, including influence within SIS from Pakistan's own emerging fundamentalists (Jamiatt Islami), as well as a desire to see a liberated but weak Afghanistan. But still, it was our guns and money, and we should have funneled it equally to all forces actually fighting for liberation from the USSR, or if we were really smart, mostly to forces (such as Massoud or Mr. Rabbani or even the Gailani clan) with whom we could expect to have a civil conversation and normal state relations in a post-Soviet Afghanistan. But Washington claimed its hands were tied and it couldn't intervene in Pakistan's "internal affairs." Remember, during the 80s the US was very concerned to keep Pakistan within the anti-Soviet orbit, even if it meant looking the other way re: nuclear development or how much arms & money went to which rebel forces. I'm not saying that was right -- in fact, I urged responsible officials to stop allowing our aid to be channeled to the fundamentalists before they became too strong. But this sort of "Realpolitik" was very much SOP for Washington during the 1970s and 80s. As the Soviets neared defeat in Afghanistan in 1985-86, Saudi fanatics such as Bin Laden and other foreign Arab volunteers began pouring in to Afghanistan. By 1987-88, the Soviets were gone and the US (in another stupid move) swung its aid pendulum to the other extreme and basically abandoned the Afghan people to starve. In the years that followed, then, the emergent Taliban were aided and abetted both by Afghanistan's small fundamentalist wing (Hezbi Islami) as well as by the Pak SIS, now dominated by Jamiat Islami (Pakistani fundamentalist) forces. And in the end, the Taliban filled the vacumn left by 20 years of a near genocidal war against the Soviets. The rest is history. Sorry to be a broken record on this, but it just riles me to hear people spout half-truths about who the Taliban are and how they emerged -- as if Washington's myopia circa 1984-85 justfies what happened at the WTC.

September 22, 2001 THE INVESTIGATION Tape Reveals Wild Struggle on Flight 93 By JAMES RISEN and DAVID JOHNSTON ASHINGTON, Sept. 21 � A desperate and wild struggle took place aboard the hijacked United Airlines Flight 93 before it crashed in southwestern Pennsylvania, according to the plane's cockpit voice recorder, law enforcement officials said today. The recording has been played for Attorney General John Ashcroft and the F.B.I. director, Robert S. Mueller III, the officials said. And while it did not provide a clear or complete picture, it seemed certain that there was a chaotic confrontation that apparently led to the crash of the jet. In another development, American intelligence officials said today they believed that the assassination of the leader of the anti- Taliban alliance in Afghanistan on Sept. 9 was probably carried out by associates of Osama bin Laden. The assassination appears to have been the first step in the terror plot that culminated in the attacks on the United States two days later, the officials said. The voice recorder picked up scuffling sounds as well as shouts in Arabic and English, the officials said, but listeners have not been able to discern what was happening or who among the passengers, crew members or hijackers was involved in the struggle. In the past week, officials have said that the passengers appeared to have stormed the cockpit after the four hijackers commandeered the flight. That account has been based primarily on cellphone conversations between passengers and people on the ground. Technical experts are continuing their efforts to enhance the sounds from the cockpit listening device, which uses microphones in the headsets of the pilots and mounted on the cockpit ceiling. Mr. Mueller visited the crash site on Thursday after he received a preliminary briefing on the recorder's contents. He said that the passengers heroically prevented the hijackers from striking their target, an undetermined site in Washington. "I think both of us here and � both the attorney general and I and the attorney general of Pennsylvania have indicated we believe those passengers on this jet were absolute heroes and their actions during this flight were heroic," he said. " continued at http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/22/national/22INQU.html?todaysheadlines

A Former Pakistani Prime Minister Weighs In By Benazir Bhutto Friday, Sept. 21, 2001 Little in life springs from whole cloth. That is especially true of Sept. 11, 2001, a date stained into the calendar of civilization. This was a calamity two decades in the making. At the end of 1979, the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, hoping to strengthen their position in Central Asia and develop proximity to the resources and warm ports of the Gulf. Almost immediately an indigenous insurrection developed to challenge the Soviet occupation. The freedom fighters were called the "Mujahadeen" and were composed of seven different factions. In its early days, the Reagan administration made a decision that would shape the course of history. It backed the one faction most likely to successfully challenge the Soviets on the battlefield. Working with their counterparts in the Pakistani Inter Services Intelligence (ISI), the CIA armed, trained, and empowered the most extreme, anti-modernity, anti-Western zealots within the Mujahadeen. This propelled the extremists to a leadership position in the war of resistance and in the politics that followed. The war in Afghanistan caused one of the great refugee migrations in modern history. Nearly three million Afghans crossed into Pakistan to escape the fighting. Almost immediately scores of special Islamic schools, called Madrassas, sprang up. The boys that were sent there by their parents to be nourished and educated were taught extremism, intolerance, subjugation of women, and violence. All of these elements are antithetical to the Holy Book and to the teachings of the Prophet. When the children were not being brainwashed, they were trained in hand-to-hand combat, the use of weapons, and terrorist strategy. These schools became the recruitment centers for the fanatic administration that ultimately took control of Afghanistan after the Soviet exit. The new political movement was named after the schools themselves. The word "Talib" means student! I became prime minister of Pakistan in 1988 during the waning days of the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. The last Soviet troops were airlifted out of Afghanistan on Feb. 15, 1989. The international community quickly turned its attention to events in Europe and the fall of the Berlin Wall. I was left concerned at the lack of a post-Soviet plan for the reconstruction and governing of Afghanistan. I was also concerned at the go-at-it-alone attitude of the extremist factions that wanted the government, and ultimately they prevailed. I suspected that having defeated one superpower, the zealots felt invincible and divinely empowered to take aim at another. As a moderate, progressive, democratically elected woman prime minister of Pakistan, I was a threat to the fundamentalist zealots on multiple levels and targeted by them in both my governments. They had the support of sympathetic elements within Pakistan's security apparatus and the financial support of people like Osama Bin Laden. I had closed their training university in Peshawar and was targeted for that. I had tracked down and extradited the Ramzi Yousef, the perpetrator of the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, and was targeted for that. My government was destabilized. Money was pilfered and laundered from state banks to fund the campaigns of opposition parties. We learned from Ramzi Yousef before he was extradited to the United States that I was the object of two separate assassination attempts in 1993. Osama Bin Laden personally spent over $10 million in late 1989 in support of a motion of no confidence to topple my government. And ultimately, with the active support of elements of the Pakistani ilitary, my two democratically elected governments were sacked and elections rigged to ensure that my party would not return to power. Beware the power of zealots who are well-funded, well-armed, and supported by elements of your own government! That brings us to the present. A complex and well-funded terrorist network executed the most inhuman terrorist attack in history. The target was America, but it was also the values of freedom everywhere. It seemed Osama and his cohorts read Professor Samuel Huntington's The Clash of Civilizations and wished to provoke its thesis into reality. Their goal is for the Muslim world to see U.S. retaliation as an act of aggression against Islam. Sept. 11 was the bait. Sadly, this is not over. The United States responded quickly in declaring a fight against international terrorism and cautioned it will be a long process. Asked to assist the U.S. effort against terrorism, Islamabad responded positively. It did this despite elements within the military intelligence complex that have sympathy for the Taliban. Pakistan is saddled with $38 billion in international debt, with $4 billion owed to America. With Egypt and Jordan, the United States has repaid political support with debt retirement in the past. Islamabad expects the same treatment. It also expects the repeal of the discriminatory Pressler amendment denying military and economic aid to Pakistan because of its nuclear program. There is one price that Islamabad could demand that is too great and too dangerous to grant. The United States and the Commonwealth support the holding of free, fair, party-based elections to restore democracy to my nation in 2002. Islamabad may be tempted to ask the United States to abandon its support for Pakistani democracy in exchange for support in the war against international terrorism. The previous military dictator General Zia did this successfully in the '80s. But pressure for a return to democracy should continue. In fact, in light of the horrible lessons of Afghanistan in the 1980s, the United States should be exquisitely sensitive to the fact that democracies don't start wars; democracies don't engage in international terrorism. Allowing dictatorship to strengthen its stranglehold over the democratic institutions of Pakistan can, in the long run, create an even greater Frankenstein than the U.S. miscalculation with the Mujahadeen in the 1980s. Osama commandeers jets. Pakistan has nuclear weapon . The United States must demand a democratic Pakistan to stave off a true catastrophe in the future. Benazir Bhutto is the former prime minister of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. http://slate.msn.com/code/ThisJustIn/ThisJustIn.asp?Show=9/21/2001&idMessage=8335

For some idea of what the rest of the world is up against, I recommend this little essay of a book report with thanks to JSK for suggesting I read it: PROPHETS, CULTS AND MADNESS http://www.cix.co.uk/~acampbell/bookreviews/r/stevens-price-2.html

From: William Meyers To: tincanman99@aol.com, paul@spring.net, melvyn@freewwweb.com, mmc@well.com, moon93@aol.com, pgribbin@megs.inet.net, malysaght@aol.com, dfrohman@aol.com Subject: a subway ride Postapocalyptic Meditations 23 September 2001 Thursday morning of last week I was taking the subway to work as usual, about nine in the morning, down from Morningside Heights to our office on 62nd Street, across from Lincoln Center. The train was packed full of people, as it always is in the morning rush hour, and I found a nook in which to tuck myself, next to the motorman's small compartment, at thefront of the train. There was enough space around me there to hold up my copy of the day's newspaper and read the first paragraphs of the stories on the front page, but only by keeping the paper folded in half. BUSH ORDERS HEAVY BOMBERS NEAR AFGHANS; DEMANDS BIN LADEN NOW, NOT NEGOTIATIONS That was the headline on the Late Edition of Thursday's Times. At the 96th Street station, where the local train shares the platform with the express and much movement of people from one train to the other goes on, a moment of panic suddenly struck. Shouts of alarm, screams of terror grabbed everyone's attention in the car where I was still standing. Outside the window people were running past the front of the train and toward the 94th Street exit. Inside the car people were yelling, "What's happening? What's going on?" Outside on the platform, they were too busy trying to get away to hear anything but their own terrified voices. It occurred to me that at that moment, or any succeeding one, a blinding white flash and explosion could instantly obliterate me and everyone around me. I waited for that to happen, as one moment succeeded the next. The crush of beings outside the train kept struggling for the exit. Then the door of the motorman's compartment opened, and the motorman -- tall and commanding, studded with communications gear -- emerged to assess the scene. I was thinking, "Just keep moving, man!" But I couldn't utter a word. He spoke something into his intercom about how there was "an altercation" on the platform that needed to be investigated. Then he got back into his compartment and shut the door. I prayed that that would be the end of it and the doors of the train would close. The doors closed, and the train moved out. The south end of the platform slipped by, and the lights of the station fell behind us, overtaken by the darkness of the tunnel. People looked at each other in fear and relief. At some point before we reached the next station, 86th Street -- a local stop -- I realized how much adrenalin had been pumping through my body. Slumping against the door of the motorman's compartment, I closed my eyes and waited for the enormous rush of energy to pass. By the time we reached 66th Street, where I exited the subway, I was thinking that the story of whatever had happened back there would be emerging in the media soon and that I should be on the lookout and looking closely for it. The person in the token booth at 66th Street had no idea what had happened back up the line. It was still too early, I thought. What could have happened? What did "altercation" mean? Had a fistfight broken out? Had it been "to the death"? Did one or both of the fighters look Arabic? Had one of them pulled a gun, or a bomb, or a flask of anthrax? Nothing was reported later in the media. At least nothing came within range of my own sensors. Apparently it had been just another routine incident -- one of all too many that have been occurring in our lives here for the last couple of weeks. I think it would be safe to say that the stressload in Manhattan has been reaching a maximum tolerance level. But it's the new reality. -- Wm

Today, in a short while, on All Things Considered. 09.25.01 The Bin Laden Group is a diversified corporation with an estimated $5 billion in annual revenue. It's owned and run by the Saudi family of accused terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden. The allegations against the "black sheep" of the Bin Laden family have created serious trouble for the family business as partners and associates are backing away. Hear about the Bin Laden Group, Tuesday on All Things Considered.

I received the following from my advisor, who used to work for Amnesty International in the UK. He's got friends working at the BBC, and this memo came out recently: -----Original Message----- From: Internal Communications Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 2:19 PM Subject: CNN USING 1991 FOOTAGE This email is being sent to all staff ------------------------------------------- There's an important point in the power of press, specifically the Power of CNN. All around the world we are subjected to 3 or 4 huge news distributors, and one of them - as you well know - is CNN. Very well, I guess all of you have been seeing (just as I've been) images from this company. In Particular, one set of images caught my attention: the Palestinians celebrating the bombing, out on the streets, eating celebration sweets and making funny faces for the camera. Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait! It's simply unacceptable that a super-power of communications as CNN uses images which do not correspond to the reality in talking about so serious of an issue. At the BBC here, we have these footages on videotapes recorded in 1991, with the very same images. But now, think for a moment about the impact of such images. Your people are hurt, emotionally fragile, and this kind of broadcast has very high possiblity of causing waves of anger and rage against the Palestinians. It's simply irresponsible to show images such as those. Russell Grossman | Head of Internal Communication | BBC Third Floor | London Broadcasting House | LONDON W1A 1AA

Patriotism, athletics go hand in hand 09/24/2001 Dave Kindred The Sporting News A brilliant day, a Friday in the fall, the sun warm on our backs, we walked to the south portico of the United States Capitol. From that high place we saw in the middle distance the Washington Monument, and we saw, at the far end, the Lincoln Memorial. When we saw all that before us on a beautiful day in a fall of sadness, my friend Verenda said, �Wow.� Because we live in Washington, we have seen these places a thousand times. But Verenda had it right. Wow. To see these places now, to see them after September 11, is to see them anew. So we walked from the Capitol, and we walked for hours. We saw the bronze of a Civil War general on horseback, soldiers hanging onto an artillery caisson clattering to his side. We saw our faces in mirrored black granite that moans of Vietnam dead. We stood in a marble temple and read on a wall a president's words: �The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here . . .� We stopped in a museum to see the Star-Spangled Banner. By the dawn's early light of September 14, 1814, the massive flag yet waved over Baltimore's Fort McHenry. Americans had outlasted a British siege that (a survivor said) �threw at least 1,800 shells among us. We were like pigeons tied by the legs to be shot at.� The lawyer Francis Scott Key saw that flag and in a poem called his nation �the land of the free and the home of the brave.� We saw three helicopters descend to the White House, always three to confuse an enemy, the three flying under the thunderous cover of fighter jets. We saw flowers left on the Mall by some people from Mongolia who have embraced America. We saw a president's words cut into purple stone: �The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.� The night before our walk, Lisa Beamer came to the Capitol. Her husband had risen against fear. When hijackers thought to fly to Washington -- to destroy the White House? the Capitol? -- Todd Beamer did the kind of brave, selfless thing that is the beating heart of a nation made and sustained by brave, selfless people. Passengers knew planes had crashed into buildings. Beamer and three other men decided to act. Ten years ago, he had been a basketball guard and baseball shortstop/centerfielder at Wheaton College in Illinois. �Good athlete with good speed, batted second for us, led off sometimes . . . a very solid leader . . . deeply religious . . . very unselfish,� said his old baseball coach, Ron Frank. �What he did is in total keeping with the man he was.� Beamer couldn't reach his wife by phone. He asked a GTE Airfone supervisor to recite with him the Lord's Prayer and to call his wife. The last words the supervisor heard from Todd Beamer were these: �Are you guys ready? Let's roll.� United Flight 93 soon crashed into the Pennsylvania countryside, apparently taken down in a struggle between passengers and hijackers. Nine days later, Lisa Beamer came to the Capitol to hear President Bush address the nation. �Seeing the Capitol lit up, it's just glorious,� she said. �Lawmakers all thanked me for what Todd did. Not only the lives saved, but imagine the emotional devastation to this nation if the Capitol no longer existed.� Let's roll. Saturday morning, going to a football game in Annapolis, we turned toward Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium, turning on Farragut Road, named for the sailor who 137 years ago said, �Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!� Such men, such a nation. If ever you need reminded of what America is and what it can be, turn down Farragut Road and spend a Saturday afternoon at a Navy football game. There you might talk to a retired captain, Dick Riley of Des Moines, Iowa, class of �42 with 26 years of active duty. He's 81 years old and on a Saturday in Annapolis he says, �We graduated 12 days after Pearl Harbor, 563 of us, and we lost 28 in the war. I pray that today's Midshipmen, special kids each and every one, have as thoroughly fulfilling experiences as I did serving our country.� Thirty thousand people came to a stadium where even the walls speak of courage: IWO JIMA, MIDWAY, NORMANDY, INCHON, QUANG TRI. The thousands saw a fighter jet fly-over. They heard Francis Scott Key's poem sung a cappella. Just before noon, linebackers Mike Chiesl and Dan Ryno led Navy onto the field in an all-out sprint. They carried high an American flag. No one had ever done that for a Navy game. But never before had there been a September 11, 2001. At dinner Friday night, Chiesl and Ryno had seen the flag in a corner of a hotel lobby. Permission, sir, to liberate the flag. Granted. �We wanted to do that for the Naval Academy,� Chiesl said. �And we were doing it for all of America.� He's a Texan, a big one, and he stood tall. His eyes were those of a happy young man with journeys to make. When he smiled, he was as handsome as a flag seen by the dawn's early light. Dave Kindred is a contributing writer for The Sporting News. Email him at kindred@sportingnews.com.

It's simply unacceptable that a super-power of communications as CNN uses images which do not correspond to the reality in talking about so serious of an issue. Welcome to real world. :-( Mr.Orwell we need you)

Memo to BBC. That footage was shown by all the TV stations, not just CNN. They sure sound high and mighty.

Don't make the mistake of watching CBC new on C_SPAN. I came as close to hurling something through my television as I ever have. If we are so loathesome give us back our aid and cease trading with us. As for the media....don't you wonder whose side they're on?! Whose best interest in mind? Other than their own?! Let me hasten to add that I know more nice Canadians than I do Canadian Broadcasting writers... It just infuriated me. The BBC has gone down the tubes I hear from local UK'ers. even they hunt for a more reliable source of news.

MSNBC did a real good story tonight on the Taliban and the Afghan Northern Alliance. They showed some good footage of Massoud (referenced earlier in this topic) who has been pleading with the West for years to give him just a little bit of aid. He said words to the effect that "give me a little help and I'll take care of Bin Laden for you, otherwise their will be grave consequences for the West. What better indication of Bin Laden's guilt than the assasination of Massoud just one day for the World Trade Center attack?

Message 550:" In Particular, one set of images caught my attention: the Palestinians celebrating the bombing, out on the streets, eating celebration sweets and making funny faces for the camera." "Well, THOSE IMAGES WERE SHOT BACK IN 1991!!! Those are images of Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait!" --------------------------------- CNN statement about false claim it used old video Brazilian university statement says no fact to original claim September 20, 2001 Posted: 4:02 PM EDT (2002 GMT) CNN asks that you copy and e-mail this statement to whomever asks about it.) There is absolutely no truth to the information that is now distributed on the Internet that CNN used 10-year-old video when showing the celebrating of some Palestinians in East Jerusalem after the terror attacks in the U.S. The video was shot that day by a Reuters camera crew. CNN is a client of Reuters and like other clients, received the video and broadcast it. Reuters officials have publicly made the facts clear as well. The allegation is false. The source of the allegation has withdrawn it and apologized. It was started by a Brazilian student who now says he immediately posted a correction once he knew the information was not true. This is the statement by his university -- UNICAMP -- Universidad Estatal de Campinas-Brasil. Again, please read this -- and copy it -- and send it to anyone you know who may have the false information. Thank you. OFFICIAL STATEMENT by Universidad de Campinas-Brasil 17/09/01 UNICAMP (Universidad Estatal de Campinas-Brasil) would like to announce that it has no knowledge of a videotape from 1991, whose images supposedly aired on CNN showing Palestinians celebrating the terrorist attacks in the U.S. The tape was supposedly from 1991, and there were rumors that the images were passed off as current. This information was later denied, as soon as it proved false, by M�rcio A. V. Carvalho, a student at UNICAMP. He approached the administration today, 17.09.2001, to clarify the following: -- the information he got, verbally, was that a professor from another institution (not from UNICAMP) had the tape; -- he sent the information to a discussion group e-mail list; -- many people from this list were interested in the subject and requested more details; -- he again contacted the person who first gave him the information and the person denied having the tape; -- the student immediately sent out a note clarifying what happened to the people from his e-mail list. The original message, however, was distributed all over the world, often with many distortions, including a falsified by-line article from the student. He affirms that a hacker attacked his domain. Several E-mails have been sent on his behalf and those dating from 15.09.2001 should be ignored. Among the distortions is the fact that UNICAMP would be analyzing the tape, which is absolutely false. The administration considers this alert definitive and will be careful to avoid new rumors. http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/20/cnn.statement/ ------------------------------------- Nevertheless, there have been many(talking heads,"experts", writers)who have questioned exactly how that videotape came to be - not that it did not happen, rather, was it staged? who exactly were the people? where exactly was it?, etc.

People, I live in Atlanta ( the home of CNN )and I have many friends ( including the Senior Copy Editor for CNN Headline News ) who work at CNN Center downtown, so I gotta speak up on their behalf. CNN would NOT stoop to such a shabby, lazy and downright dishonest tactic, of showing 10 year old footage, while claiming it was current. CNN got taken to the cleaners a couple of years ago, about a story they ran (about biological warfare ) that later turned out to be false. Many, many heads rolled as a result and the public perception of CNN being the first place we all turn to for "accurate" breaking news, took a major, major hit. As a result, they double check, triple check and quadrupile check the veracity of ALL stories/film footage BEFORE it is broadcast. Also, it is worth noting.....ALL the major US networks ( ABC, Fox, CBS, NBC )broadcast this footage of the Palestinains dancing in the streets, it wasn't just CNN.

(Marcia) Without reading through a lot of posts to see if anyone answeed Laura, rhetorical question, we did pay reparations to the Japanese Americans we interred in WW2...$25,000 each. Aside from the fear factor that was going around after the Pearl Harbor attack, there were politicians and business people who took advantage of the situation and actually fanned the fire, which ultimately led to the internment. The J-Americans happened to reside on land that is now considered prime real estate in Southern California (think of areas like Santa Monica and Orange County). While the general public viewed the internment as safeguarding America, little did the public know that there were those behind the scenes who had a hidden agenda and who helped manipulate the hysteria and sought to profit from the situation by taking over the real estate (shades of the movie Chinatown and water rights). While some survivors received reparations, it was a mere pittance compared to the value of the land that they lost, where EACH parcel is worth several millions today. These J-Americans had to endure humiliation and financial ruin, and were the victims of ugly racisim and greed, yet they picked up the pie es of their shattered lives and continued to live as proud Americans.

Had no idea their property was confiscated. How on earth was that done legally...in this country?

How on earth was that done legally...in this country? I have the same question. Thanks to Suzee for posting the article debunking the story about the CNN photo. It smelled like urban legend to me, right from the start. Am quickly learning that while the Internet is a great place to share opinions, the facts often suffer.

There's emminent domain for when a government entity wants property for the public good (debatable) in which owners receive some compensation though not anywhere near market value. It has been used for the railroads, schools and other public-private development efforts. Saw a piece on a news magazine show recently on how some town is trying to use it to acquire a whole neighborhood for a Target store. People are up in arms.

How on earth was that done legally...in this country? How on earth was internment of citizens -- not foreign nationals -- U.S. CITIZENS, done legally in this country? Where was the evidence of a threat to national security?

Not to excuse anyone's behavior and the complete lack of reason and illegality, people tend to go a little hysterical when a country's military installation is attacked. There are numerous examples in our history...unfortunately. When there is a threat from a foreign country, people turn xenophobic just as is occurring now. It is interesting to me that we've learned from our past when I see the PR campaigns to educate the ignorant members of our society.

It is interesting to me that we've learned from our past when I see the PR campaigns to educate the ignorant members of our society. Better late than never. Will they go back to being their ignorant selves once the Fall TV season starts?

Depends on their diet of *reality* TV and idiotic night-time quiz shows.

From: Gerald Wheeler Subject: well worth considering i'd recommend this to all: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/09/26/ED69828.DTL

Jerome Karabel is a professor of sociology at the University of California at Berkeley and a senior fellow at the Rockridge Institute You want *me* to take some academic from *Berkeley* serious??? Those dudes consistently make government - bashing their #1 indoor sport.

Ah yes, Angela Davis taught there, no? Does she still? Kiddies go do your homework!

......How on earth was that done legally...in this country? .... The US government started to lay the groundwork for controlling subversive activities prior to Pearl Harbor (but in anticipation of joining the war) by passing a slew of new laws. These included the Smith Act, basically intended to suppress "disloyalty." Roosevelt signed an Executive Order in 1942, giving the army broad power to "exclude" questionable persons from certain areas. A month or so later, he signed a bill passed by congress making it criminal to disobey the order. I think the legal basis for the internment was the �Alien Enemies Act� passed 150 or so years before. It allowed alien internment during wartime. At first, some people tried to move to other locations, but there was really no place to go. Wherever they tried to go, the fear and outcry was so great that the government then disallowed it and started to round them up. Those being removed were given 5 days notice and told to dispose of property. The government made some kind of vague offer to store property for them, but at the same time refused to be liable for it. They sold what they could, but obviously many had to �abandon� their homes, boats, businesses, etc. Japanese-Americans lost millions in property and income and it was not just the Japanese. Germans and Italians were interned, as were some conscientious objectors. I hope Karen is right that we have learned from our past history. I am not yet sure. You can read Executive Order 9066 here: http://www.foitimes.com/internment/EO9066.html

The more I research the foundations of the al-Qaeda movement, the more depressing it gets. Take a look at the article from which this quote is taken. It's from the work fo a Harvard prof who was researching schools in Pakistan that teach jihad. Here's a quotation from her article: This is some research regarding the4 al-Qaeda movement by a Harvard Professor who researched schools in Parkistan that teach jihad as a discipline. "I want to talk to you as I would talk to my own daughter," he suddenly said. "You believe too much in science. Science turns a cheap thing like a piece of metal into something valuable, like an airplane. "Have you ever thought that you could become precious yourself? The way for a human being to become precious is to obey the principles of the one who created us. The way to become precious is through jihad. Nobody knows when he will die, so you must start the journey toward Islam," he told me kindly. http://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/2001/jf01/jf01stern.html Here's another excerpt from that article: What happens to families whose children become martyrs? Most of the mothers I interviewed said they were happy to have donated their sons to jihad because their sons could help them in the next life--the "real life." Syed Qurban Hussain, the father of a martyr, said, "Whoever gives his life in the way of Allah lives forever and earns a place in heaven for 70 members of his family, to be selected by the martyr." Families of martyrs become celebrities after their children die. "Everyone treats me with more respect now that I have a martyred son," Hussain added. "And when there is a martyr in the village, it encourages more children to join the jihad. It raises the spirit of the entire village." http://pakistannation.net/ActionAlerts/Alert_pakwar.htm

From what I have read lately about the Bin Lauden siblings, they want nothing whatever to do with him - no matter his status!

The Al Queda organization has been ripped open and exposed by ABC News. Inside Al Qaeda Bin Laden Defector Ties Hijack Suspect to Training Camp Sept. 26 � A defector from Osama bin Laden's terrorist organization, al Qaeda, has told ABCNEWS that one of the men accused of hijacking the planes used in the Sept. 11 attacks trained with him at one of the terrorist mastermind's camps in Afghanistan. MORE ON THIS STORY FULL COVERAGE � America Attacked VIDEO � Former bin Laden Soldier Speaks Out � A Nation United: Full Video Coverage COMMUNITY � ABCNEWS' John Miller on Meeting Bin Laden RELATED STORIES � John Miller Interviews Bin Laden (May 1998) � FBI Releases Photos, Seeks Public Tips � Inside the Taliban � Pilot Arrested in London Instructed Suspected Hijackers � The Other Victims of Sept. 11: Pets � Can New Buildings be Built Any Stronger? The defector said he trained for six months at a camp in Afghanistan to become an intelligence agent for bin Laden. When shown photographs of the 19 hijackers, the defector said he recognized one of them, a man federal investigators have identified as Majed Moqed, a possible Saudi national. "Yeah � He was with my class ... I could recognize him from his face," the defector said. "He is from Saudi Arabia, and he is about 25 to 30 years old." The Department of Justice has identified Moqed as one of five men suspected of taking control of American Airlines Flight 77 and crashing the plane into the Pentagon. If the defector is right, he may have provided an important link between bin Laden and the hijackers. Federal investigators have said they have concrete information linking one or more of the hijackers to al Qaeda but they have not publicly linked any of the suspects directly to bin Laden or his camps. The defector, who is now living outside Afghanistan, said he was shocked by the attacks, but not surprised that the attackers were willing to give their lives for bin Laden and his cause. "Yes, I was shocked, but I know them better than that. They are not only 19 people. There are a thousand people who want to sacrifice themselves for bin Laden, not only 19. There are more than a thousand. All of them � in Europe, in Canada or in Saudi Arabia � all of them want to do this kind of actions. Terrorist actions." He said there were 18 other students in his class at the training camp. He said he received training in how to conduct surveillance and how to gather detailed information on potential targets. He said he heard people talk of hijacking airliners, but that he never heard anything about a plot to crash jets into buildings in New York and Washington. He said bin Laden spoke to his class several times, warning that the United States and Israel wanted to destroy Islam, and that they must be destroyed first. He said his 18 fellow students were sent home to cities in Europe, the Middle East and Canada where they were to wait � as sleeper agents � for instructions. He said he had no doubt his fellow students would obey any instructions that came from bin Laden. "If bin Laden asked [you] to put a bomb on your body and explode it, they won't say no. They will do that," he said. After two years in bin Laden's organization, the defector said he became disillusioned with so many plots that targeted innocent civilians. He has defected from al Qaeda and is now cooperating with the U.S. government. He doubted that the U.S. military, or even special forces, would be able to capture bin Laden in Afghanistan. "It is impossible to find bin Laden. Bin Laden has many, many places in Afghanistan. You cannot find him," he said, adding that bin Laden is still guarded by a cadre of heavily armed bodyguards, including three of his sons.

Thanks for all the background, Suzee. Actually, the part that I found hard to believe was the loss of property. Internment I could see how they would achieve. In the US, there are probably greater safeguards on property than human life from a legal standpoint. :-(

loss of property The internees were sometimes given as few as 2 days to handle their affairs before they were shipped off to the camps. They had to leave everything behind. Those that sold, received not pennies on the dollar, but fractions of pennies on the dollar, as vultures were standing in line ready to take advantage of the situation. While interned, no income was generated, so if people held onto their property, they ultimately could not make mortgage payments or pay property taxes. There were no grace periods, only quick foreclosures. The economic loss was estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars. All of this was documented in a recent government publication. Some of the literature that has been written about this episode preface the actual internment with a history and description of the location of the real estate occupied. A few expressions come to mind, like follow the money, do the math, or as John McCain recently said about the war we've just entered, "get a map." Most people don't realize the art that automakers had in the demise of the US railway system. Likewise, most people don't understand the machinations that went on behind the scene during the internment process. And I believe reparations were only $20,000, not $25,000 as earlier reported.

...(Donna) And I believe reparations were only $20,000, not $25,000 as earlier reported...... I think it *was* $20,000 -- $20,000 and an apology! There were some reparations paid in about 1948 � a pittance that amounted to about 5 cents on the dollar. And non-Japanese real estate speculators did grow rich on land bought from Japanese-Americans for next to nothing and sold later at sky-high prices. Japanese-Americans lost property in many ways. Besides having it confiscated and losing equity (hard to make payments from �camp�), homes and businesses were vandalized and destroyed and also condemned whether they deserved it or not. What is that quotation about evil prevailing when good men do nothing? ...(karen) In the US, there are probably greater safeguards on property than human life from a legal standpoint. :-( The truth is that it could happen again right now. The Federal government has enormous power, and the President can do almost anything with the Executive Order(new or existing). The process totally by-passes Congress. He/she can declare martial law, take property, take over power companies, education facilities, airports, manpower, supplies and services as "needed." It can be used for good or bad. Andrew Jackson used it to remove Cherokee Indians from their land; Lincoln suspended certain legal rights, closed newspapers opposed to his policies; Roosevelt issued the previously mentioned 9066; FEMA was created by E.O.; Truman integrated the US armed forces; Eisenhower sent troops to aid integration in Little Rock. In the 1930's an E.O. required all gold to be turned in to the Federal treasury. I'm losing count of the wars we've fought without war being declared. Bush used an E.O. this week to freeze terrorists' assets. He signed one in June covering the Balkans, prohibiting US companies from doing business with certain individuals and "blocking the property and interest in property" of persons threatening stabilization efforts there. In the right atmosphere of fear and panic, etc., all these things can combine to allow rotten things to happen. Throw in a "real", declared war and the sky's the limit. It's sure a heck of an argument for paying *very* close attention to what your government is doing -- not to mention what we ourselves are doing as citizens. National Archives and Records Administration Federal Register - Executive Orders http://www.nara.gov/fedreg/eo.html

In the right atmosphere of fear and panic, etc., all these things can combine to allow rotten things to happen Well Suzee,that's why I'm glad that I live in a democracy with elections. We can always throw the bums out and the next guy can rescind those EO orders if the public deems it so. Sadly, minority groups seldom have that leaverage (Japanese). Hopefully, we're wiser now . I was happy to see that our representatives are respecting the law-abiding Muslim citizens in our country by going to mosques, including Muslim reps at services.Now it has to filter down to Joe Sixpack. But it is inconceivable that any president would repeat the error of the Japanese internments.

A poll released Friday by Ekos Research Associates for the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. and two newspapers found 63 percent of the 1,228 respondents said they felt ``a closer sense of shared values and interests with the Americans'' since the attacks. Fifty-nine percent supported giving up some ``national sovereignty'' to increase North America's security. In sharing the world's longest undefended border and world's largest trade partnership with the United States, Canadians realize the relationship that has bolstered their economy and guaranteed military defense now carries new demands and responsibilities. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011001/ts/attacks_follow_the_leader_1.html

David Kline's comments posted in news 54: People have been saying here that the Taliban brought peace out of chaos in Afghanistan and how do we know that the Northern Alliance or anyone else would be better? For the answers, see the rest in the news conference topic 54.

Militants storm J&K Assembly, 25 killed SRINAGAR: In a daring suicide attack, an explosive-laden car was blown up by militants on Monday near the entrance of the Jammu and Kashmir state legislature. At least 26 people were feared killed and 50 injured in the attack. Pakistan-based militant group, Jaish-e-Mohammed claimed responsibility for the attack. http://www.timesofindia.com/

ABC News reports. Taliban Taunt Says U.S. Doesn't Have Courage for Afghan War Oct. 1 � Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia said Osama bin Laden is under their control � but the United States "doesn't have the courage" to come get him � Taliban Says U.S. Doesn't Have Courage for Afghan War � FBI Foils Possible Sears Tower Attack � Will Sept. 11 Change our Apolitical Youth? "Americans don't have the courage to come here," Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar said in an interview with Taliban-run Kabul radio. He recalled the failures of Soviet and British forces to subdue Afghans, and repeatedly warned the United States to "think and think again before attacking Afghanistan." The fiery words came a day after a Taliban official, Abdul Salam Zaeef, said the regime was willing to negotiate over bin Laden's surrender, if U.S. officials present evidence of his involvement in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

I spoke with a Canadian man today about their media. He was not surprised at their comments. Apparently their press is even more "liberal" than ours was before this ghastly event unfolded.

Cruising in to Austin this morning I tuned in to NPR and heard that NATO just passed a resolution that put's us all in this together and another one time great Afghan fighter has joined our side. Haven't had a chance to check in on http://www.google.com/news yet and look around on CNN, Fox, NYTimes, ABC, etc. but I'll do that later. Sounds like airports are starting to get beefed up security, National Guard, etc. Canada needs to round up the terrorists lurking in the shadows up there, I hope they're mobilizing for this.

Blair: Attack Coming British Prime Minister Warns Taliban; Bush Looks At Economy, Security Issues Oct. 2 � As the U.S. military dispatched another aircraft carrier in the war against terrorism, British Prime Minister Tony Blair is reportedly set to announce that a military attack on Afghanistan's Taliban regime is "now imminent and will be devastating." Blair will say he has seen strong evidence linking terrorist Osama bin Laden to the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States, and will tell a Labor Party conference in Brighton, England today that the Taliban, which has been harboring bin Laden, will be made to pay for its actions, according to the British Broadcasting Corporation. The leaders of NATO have also been convinced, after a meeting with U.S. Ambassador-at-Large Francis X. Taylor. "The facts are clear and compelling. The information presented points conclusively to an al Qaeda role in the 11th of September attacks," NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson said today. "We know that the individuals who carried out those attacks were part of the worldwide terrorist network al Qaeda headed by Osama bin Laden and his key lieutenant and protected by the Taliban." He said that the information Taylor presented to NATO proved that the attack was directed from abroad, meaning it is covered by NATO's Article 5, which states that an armed attack on one or more NATO nation is to be considered an attack against all of them. "I want to reiterate yet again today that the United States of America can rely on the full support of its 18 NATO allies in the campaign against international terrorism," he said. source ABCnews.com

You and me too, Terry in regards to getting Canada up to speed on this. The only positive note from e politician north of the border that I have heard was from a former Prime Minister. Heaven help us! --------------- A positive Look at 9-11-01... By now everyone has been hearing the death toll rise and reports of the destruction from the terrorist attacks on the US. These were deplorable acts that we will never forget. But now is a time to look at the other side of the numbers coming out of New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. The sad but somewhat uplifting side that the mainstream media has not reported yet -- the SURVIVAL RATES and some positive news about the attacks. The Buildings The World Trade Center The twin towers of the World Trade Center were places of employment for some 50,000 people. With the missing list of just over 5,000 people, that means 90% of the people targeted survived the attack. A 90% on a test is an 'A.' The Pentagon Some 23,000 people were the target of a third plane aimed at the Pentagon. The latest count shows that 123 lost their lives. That is an amazing 99.5% survival rate. In addition, the plane seems to have come in too low, too early to affect a large portion of the building. On top of that, the section that was hit was the first of five sections to undergo renovations that would help protect the Pentagon from terrorist attacks. It had recently completed straightening and blastproofing, saving untold lives. This attack was sad, but a statistical failure. The Planes American Airlines Flight 77 The Boeing 757 that was flown into the outside of the Pentagon could have carried up to 289 people, yet only 64 were aboard. Luckily 78% of the seats were empty. American Airlines Flight 11 The Boeing 767 could have had up to 351 people aboard, but only carried 92. Thankfully 74 % of the seats were unfilled. United Airlines Flight 175 Another Boeing 767 that could have sat 351 people only had 65 people on board. Fortunately it was 81% empty. United Airlines Flight 93 The Boeing 757 was one of the most uplifting stories yet. The smallest flight to be hijacked with only 45 people aboard out of a possible 289 had 84% of its capacity unused. Yet these people stood up to the attackers and thwarted a fourth attempted destruction of a national landmark, saving untold numbers of lives in the process. In Summary Out of potentially 74,280 Americans directly targeted by these inept cowards, 93% survived or avoided the attacks. That's a higher survival rate than heart attacks, breast cancer, kidney transplants and liver transplants--all common, survivable illnesses. The Hijacked planes were mostly empty, the Pentagon was hit at it's strongest point, the overwhelming majority of people in the World Trade Center buildings escaped, and a handful of passengers gave the ultimate sacrifice to save even more lives.

Subject: "Monday Vs Tuesday" On Monday there were people fighting against praying in schools On Tuesday you would have been hard pressed to find a school where someone was not praying On Monday there were people who were trying to separate each other by race, sex, color and creed On Tuesday they were all holding hands On Monday we thought that we were secure On Tuesday we learned better On Monday we were talking about heroes as being athletes On Tuesday we relearned what hero meant On Monday people went to work at the world trade centers as usual On Tuesday they died On Monday people were fighting the 10 commandments on government property On Tuesday the same people all said 'God help us all' while thinking 'Thou shall not kill' On Monday people argued with their kids about picking up their room On Tuesday the same people could not get home fast enough to hug their kids. On Monday people picked up McDonalds for dinner On Tuesday they stayed home On Monday people were upset that their dry cleaning was not ready on time On Tuesday they were lining up to give blood for the dying On Monday politicians argued about budget surpluses On Tuesday grief stricken they sang 'God Bless America' On Monday we worried about the traffic and getting to work late On Tuesday we worried about a plane crashing into your house or place of business On Monday we were irritated that our rebate checks had not arrived On Tuesday we wanted to give it all back. On Monday some children had solid families On Tuesday they were orphans On Monday the president was going to Florida to read to children On Tuesday he returned to Washington to protect our children On Monday we emailed jokes On Tuesday we did not It is sadly ironic how it takes horrific events to place things into perspective, but it has. May God help us with the lessons learned this week, the things we have taken for granted, the things that have been forgotten or overlooked, the ruts that we have allowed ourselves to follow. It may well be better for us not to get back to normal. On Monday - pray and be thankful! On Tuesday - pray and be thankful! On Wednesday - pray and be thankful! On Thursday - pray and be thankful! On Friday - pray and be thankful! On Saturday - pray and be thankful! On Sunday - pray and be thankful!

Marcia, thanks for posting that 'positive view' of Sept 11 - gave me chills to read those numbers. *big hug* btw- *grin*

*Big Hugs!!! EsBee, I have missed you! I'll be in your area at the end of this month! My son is finally gonna tie the old proverial knot. Imagine riding a 100+ story building as it collapsed and emerging alive? Or worse still, going down all those stairs fro 2 1/2 hous to reach ground level just as the rest of the building collapses and you have just made it out! Talk about There, but for the Grace of God, go I...

Your going to be in Cal???? will email you - we HAVE to get together this time!!! Congrats to David btw!!

Thanks for the congrats. Your two emails are already on their way!

I'm not sure if it was published here. Even more doubts if I shoul put the below message here. Film about Osama bin Laden in production Guardian Unlimited Monday October 1, 2001 It was only a matter of time before it happened, but many will be surprised to hear that a fictional film about Osama bin Laden is already in production. The film rights to British writer and former SAS officer Andy McNab's book Crisis Four have been bought by Miramax and according to the books publishers Corgi, "The process is already several stages down the line." The book tells the story of a "steel-willed" British woman who is recruited by bin Laden to work her way into American security, blow up the White House and kill the president. The book's hero Nick Stone, a former SAS man who McNab says is "partly autobiographical" has the task of hunting down the woman. McNab is aware that the film will attract criticism when so many studios are avoiding any mention of terrorism or the World Trade Centre but insists he is not jumping on the bandwagon as the book was first published in 1999. "Many people have bought the book since September 11 because of the coincidences," he told the Daily Telegraph. "It shows that you don't have to have a beard and a turban to be working for bin Laden." Mystery surrounds the identity of the real Andy McNab as he writes under a pseudonym and there are no photographs of him although his books which lift the lid on the secret world of the SAS have been hugely successful worldwide. His 1994 novel Bravo Two Zero about his unit's experiences in Iraq during the Gulf war sold over a million copies in the UK alone I was afraid that someday there will be somebody who will try to produce a film about bin Laden to make money out of the tragedy. But I didn't imagine that it's already happening.

*More Short Skirts and Dancing, Advises Prominent Fatwa Victim *8-/ Fighting the Forces of Invisibility By Salman Rushdie Tuesday, October 2, 2001; Page A25 NEW YORK -- In January 2000 I wrote in a newspaper column that "the defining struggle of the new age would be between Terrorism and Security," and fretted that to live by the security experts' worst-case scenarios might be to surrender too many of our liberties to the invisible shadow-warriors of the secret world. Democracy requires visibility, I argued, and in the struggle between security and freedom we must always err on the side of freedom. On Tuesday, Sept. 11, however, the worst-case scenario came true. They broke our city. I'm among the newest of New Yorkers, but even people who have never set foot in Manhattan have felt its wounds deeply, because New York is the beating heart of the visible world, tough-talking, spirit- dazzling, Walt Whitman's "city of orgies, walks and joys," his "proud and passionate city -- mettlesome, mad, extravagant city!" To this bright capital of the visible, the forces of invisibility have dealt a dreadful blow. No need to say how dreadful; we all saw it, are all changed by it. Now we must ensure that the wound is not mortal, that the world of what is seen triumphs over what is cloaked, what is perceptible only through the effects of its awful deeds. In making free societies safe -- safer -- from terrorism, our civil liberties will inevitably be compromised. But in return for freedom's partial erosion, we have a right to expect that our cities, water, planes and children really will be better protected than they have been. The West's response to the Sept. 11 attacks will be judged in large measure by whether people begin to feel safe once again in their homes, their workplaces, their daily lives. This is the confidence we have lost, and must regain. Next: the question of the counterattack. Yes, we must send our shadow- warriors against theirs, and hope that ours prevail. But this secret war alone cannot bring victory. We will also need a public, political and diplomatic offensive whose aim must be the early resolution of some of the world's thorniest problems: above all the battle between Israel and the Palestinian people for space, dignity, recognition and survival. Better judgment will be required on all sides in future. No more Sudanese aspirin factories to be bombed, please. And now that wise American heads appear to have understood that it would be wrong to bomb the impoverished, oppressed Afghan people in retaliation for their tyrannous masters' misdeeds, they might apply that wisdom, retrospectively, to what was done to the impoverished, oppressed people of Iraq. It's time to stop making enemies and start making friends. To say this is in no way to join in the savaging of America by sections of the left that has been among the most unpleasant consequences of the terrorists' attacks on the United States. "The problem with Americans is . . . " -- "What America needs to understand . . . " There has been a lot of sanctimonious moral relativism around lately, usually prefaced by such phrases as these. A country which has just suffered the most devastating terrorist attack in history, a country in a state of deep mourning and horrible grief, is being told, heartlessly, that it is to blame for its own citizens' deaths. ("Did we deserve this, sir?" a bewildered worker at "ground zero" asked a visiting British journalist recently. I find the grave courtesy of that "sir" quite astonishing.) Let's be clear about why this bien-pensant anti-American onslaught is such appalling rubbish. Terrorism is the murder of the innocent; this time, it was mass murder. To excuse such an atrocity by blaming U.S. government policies is to deny the basic idea of all morality: that individuals are responsible for their actions. Furthermore, terrorism is not the pursuit of legitimate complaints by illegitimate means. The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives. Whatever the killers were trying to achieve, it seems improbable that building a better world was part of it. The fundamentalist seeks to bring down a great deal more than buildings. Such people are against, to offer just a brief list, freedom of speech, a multi-party political system, universal adult suffrage, accountable government, Jews, homosexuals, women's rights, pluralism, secularism, short skirts, dancing, beardlessness, evolution theory, sex. These are tyrants, not Muslims. (Islam is tough on suicides, who are doomed to repeat their deaths through all eternity. However, there needs to be a thorough examination, by Muslims everywhere, of why it is that the faith they love breeds so many violent mutant strains. If the West needs to understand its Unabombers and McVeighs, Islam needs to face up to its bin Ladens.) United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan has said that we should now define ourselves not only by what we are for but by what we are against. I would reverse that proposition, because in the present instance what we are against is a no-brainer. Suicidist assassins ram wide-bodied aircraft into the World Trade Center and Pentagon and kill thousands of people: um, I'm against that. But what are we for? What will we risk our lives to defend? Can we unanimously concur that all the items in the above list -- yes, even the short skirts and dancing -- are worth dying for? The fundamentalist believes that we believe in nothing. In his world-view, he has his absolute certainties, while we are sunk in sybaritic indulgences. To prove him wrong, we must first know that he is wrong. We must agree on what matters: kissing in public places, bacon sandwiches, disagreement, cutting-edge fashion, literature, generosity, water, a more equitable distribution of the world's resources, movies, music, freedom of thought, beauty, love. These will be our weapons. Not by making war but by the unafraid way we choose to live shall we defeat them. How to defeat terrorism? Don't be terrorized. Don't let fear rule your life. Even if you are scared. Salman Rushdie is a British novelist and essayist. Distributed by NYT Special Features

I heard an account on the radio this morning about a Greyhound Bus terrorist action where the bus driver got his throat slit. CNN reporting at least ten people dead. Minimal info on the nutcase from one of the passengers: ----- Carly Rinearson, a passenger on the bus, said in a phone call to CNN affiliate WTVF that a man kept asking if he could have her seat near the front of the bus. She said he appeared agitated and kept asking what time it was. Rinearson said when she refused to give up her seat, "He just went up to the bus driver and like slit his throat. And the bus driver turned the wheel and the bus tipped over." She did not describe the man further or say what kind of weapon he had.

Another hijacking. MUMBAI TO DELHI PLANE HIJACKED EW DELHI: A Boeing 737 belonging to India's state-run Alliance Air, with 52 people on board, was hijacked just after take off from Mumbai early Thursday, Union Minister of State for Civil Aviation Shahnawaz Hussain said. The Minister said a hijack distress call had been received by the Air Traffic Control (ATC) in New Delhi where the plane had landed at around 1 a.m. The aircraft, on its way to Delhi, was hijacked after passing Ahmedabad, initial reports said. The plane, with 46 passengers and 6 crew on board, departed from Mumbai at 11:15 pm. The Alliance Air is a subsidiary of the Indian Airlines. The plane is now parked at an isolated bay runway 27 of the airport. Police and fire vehicles have rushed towards the site. (AFP/PTI) Times of India is the source.

from Times of India: NEW DELHI: After more than four hours of anxious moments, Union Civil Aviation Minister Shahnawaz Hussain said the supposed hijacking of the Alliance Air was a creation of confusion caused by false alarm received at the ATC Ahmedabad. http://www.timesofindia.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=1331366505 The bus throat slitter was probably a lone nut copycat.

More weird people will think of copy cat crimes against humanity. It always seem so to be this way, unhappily. I understand an Arnold Swartzeneger movie was pulled before premier because of similarity to real events. I hope we are all spared such movies!

From a greatly-esteemed gentleman of my acquaintance: Re Bin Lauden: Give him a sex change operation and send her back to Afghanistan

A popular thing amongst fire departments to collect money was to have “Fill the Boot” campaigns. Firemen in uniform and wearing their helmuts, with the engine nearby would stand at busy interesections. They would hold one of their large turnout boots to collect donations. It caught on with contagious enthusiasm around here. Our 7 station dept designated one day to do this. Our crew felt a little on the awkward side to solicit money from the public. It wasn’t a natural thing for us to do. There were three of us. I made three signs from a cardboard box that I cut up. Before sunup, we got to a busy intersection at Fuerte and Avocado in El Cajon/ La Mesa, Calif. I took the center island for the turn lane. I wasn’t there for 30 seconds before I got my first dollar bill donation. From then on we got busier and busier as the rush hour approached it’s peak. To beat the stop lights, I literally had to run almost constantly. People had their arms outstretched waiting for me. The only way I can reach them wa to be on a constant juking and jiving trot, as I dodged thru the lanes of cars. Eventually the cars between each light stacked up to about 30 car lengths. I was getting very tired, but I couldn’t stop. People were eager to give their donations. It got so hectic that people were wadding up paper money and throwing it in our direction as they drove by. I was literally dodging traffic. There’s a popular video game called “Frogger”. The object is to get a frog across a multi-lane road to the other side without getting ran over. The frog moved back and forth to avoid the cars. This was exactly what I was doing. There were several moments when I couldn’t help relating myself to that frog. A smile would come to my face when I did. Some folks who weren’t able to give money at the stop light, would pull over and get out of their cars and meet us along the side of the road. Some people who stopped and couldn’t get our attention, simply left money on the seats of the engine. That morning we found over 50 on the seats. A lot of people wanted to thank me and give condolences for the NY fire fighters. Some folks had tears. They were so sympathetic for the NY fire fighters, that it was obvious that they wanted to express this somehow. Being firefighters ourselves, in their hearts we were the conduit to express this emotion to them. It was genuinely heart rendering. We have a large arab community within our district, and it was soothing to see these people making sincere donations along with the rest of the community. After that one day, our dept collected over $65,000 and the tally is still being counted. It will all go to the families of the fallen NY firefighers. For us who dodged the traffic to collect money for them, it was a very satisfying and emotional experience to go thru. I am greatful to have not retired before I could experience such an event. I only regret the loss that made it possible. George Zay La Mesa, Calif. San Miguel Fire Dept.

http://abcnews.com Oct. 5 � At least 1,000 U.S. Army soldiers are headed to the former Soviet republic of Uzbekistan today, as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld visited leaders there to shore up support for an attack on neighboring Afghanistan. Troops from the U.S. 10th Mountain Division are expected to arrive today in Uzbekistan, where American military officials would like to stage personnel, bombers and jets for any attack on suspected terrorist leader Osama bin Laden and Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia. Uzbek President Islam Karimov this morning gave permission for U.S. troops to use one airbase for search-and-rescue and humanitarian aid missions. He said he was not ready at this time to let offensive troops use the facility, however. there's more at http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_MAIN.html

http://cnn.com Allies press for support British Prime Minister Tony Blair and U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld are meeting with leaders overseas today, working to shore up support for the campaign against terrorism. Meanwhile, Pentagon officials tell CNN about 1,000 troops from the 10th Mountain Division are headed to Uzbekistan to provide security at an airfield, which will be used for humanitarian purposes. more at http://www.cnn.com/

(Marcia)From a greatly-esteemed gentleman of my acquaintance: Re Bin Lauden: Give him a sex change operation and send her back to Afghanistan ROTFLOL - that made me laugh so hard co-workers came around to see what was so funny. :-) All agree is an excellent idea!

(I liked it, too! Payback is a B**** and then you die!) Terry, I'd be much happier and feel a whole lot more secure if our media kept their noses out of the military maneuvers and let it remain as secret as possible..... or did you wish to inform out enemies of where we are at all times so more atrocities could be committed on our best and brightest? I also wish they would stop telling us how to commit bio-medical and chemical mayhem. I KNOW the evil people can find out for themselves or invent new ways to kill us. It is the giving the ideas to the lone and warped like the one who slit throats on the Greyhound bus that bothers me. I refuse to participate in this dissemination of comfort and information to those who would do us harm. *end of rant*

I completely agree, Marcia! Whenever it was that they were in Boston about to try to get some suspects, the media caught on, and practically gave them a head start to get out of there before the FBI could get to them... We don't need to know everything!!! Tell us when it is over!

I read "The first casualty of war is truth, somebody said, and we know that disinformation is a key part of this stragedy. Therefore the quest for reliable info is extra-essential . . . "

Judiciously, Dear Terry. Moderation and wisdom, not tell-all and know-all. Sometimes it is best to know after it is all over! The following was sent to me from a really surprising source. I like it! Subject: LETTER FROM GOD From: GOD To: My Children on Earth RE: Idiotic Religious Rivalries My Dear Children (and believe me, that's all of you), I consider myself a pretty patient guy. I mean, look at the Grand Canyon. It took millions of years to get it right. And about evolution? Boy, nothing is slower than designing that whole Darwinian thing to take place, cell by cell, and gene by gene. I've been patient through your fashions, civilizations, wars and schemes, and the countless ways you take Me for granted until you get yourselves into big trouble again and again. I want to let you know about some of the things that are starting to tick me off. First of all, your religious rivalries are driving Me up a wall. Enough already! Let's get one thing straight. These are YOUR religions, not Mine. I'm the whole enchilada; I'm beyond them all. Every one of your religions claims there is only one of Me (which by the way, is absolutely true). But in the very next breath, each religion claims it's My favorite one. And each claims its bible was written personally by Me, and that all the other bible's are man-made. Oh, Me. How do I even begin to put a stop to such complicated nonsense? Okay, listen up now. I'm your Father AND Mother, and I don't play favorites among My children. Also, I hate to break it to you, but I don't write. My longhand is awful, and I've always been more of a "doer" anyway. So ALL of your books, including those bible's, were written by men and women. They were inspired, remarkable people, but they also made mistakes here and there. I made sure of that, so that you would never trust a written word more than your own living heart. You see, one human being to me, even a bum on the street, is worth more than all the Holy Books in the world. That's just the kind of guy I am. My Spirit is not a historical thing, it's alive right here, right now, as fresh as your next breath. Holy books and religious rites are sacred and powerful, but not more so than the least of you. They were only meant to steer you in the right direction, not to keep you arguing with each other, and certainly not to keep you from trusting your own personal connection with Me. Which brings Me to My next point about your nonsense. You act like I need you and your religions to stick up for Me or "win souls" for My sake. Please, don't do Me any favors. I can stand quite well on my own, thank you. I don't need you to defend Me, and I don't need constant credit. I just want you to be good to each other. And another thing: I don't get all worked up over money or politics, so stop dragging My name into your dramas. For example, I swear to Me that I never threatened Oral Roberts. I never rode in any of Rajneesh's Rolls Royces. I never told Pat Robertson to run for president, and I've never EVER had a conversation with Jim Baker, Jerry Falwell, or Jimmy Swaggart! Of course, come Judgment Day, I certainly intend to... The thing is, I want you to stop thinking of religion as some sort of loyalty pledge to Me. The true purpose of your religions is so that YOU can become more aware of ME, not the other way around. Believe Me, I know you already. I know what's in each of your hearts, and I love you with no strings attached. Lighten up and enjoy Me. That's what religion is best for. What you seem to forget is how mysterious I am. You look at the petty differences in your Scriptures and say, "Well, if THIS is the truth, then THAT can't be!" But instead of trying to figure out My Paradoxes and Unfathomable Nature, which by the way, you NEVER will, why not open your hearts to the simple common threads in all religions. You know what I'm talking about: Love and respect everyone. Be kind, even when life is scary or confusing, take courage and be of good cheer, for I am always with you. Learn how to be quiet, so you can hear My still, small voice (I don't like to shout). Leave the world a better place by living your life with dignity and gracefulness, for you are My Own Child. Hold back nothing from life, for the parts of you that can die surely will, and the parts that can't, won't. So don't worry, be happy (I stole that last line from Bobby McFerrin, but who do you think gave it to him in the first place?) Simple stuff. Why do you keep making it so complicated? It's like you're always looking for an excuse to be upset. And I'm very tired of being your main excuse. Do you think I care whether you call me Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Wakantonka, Brahma, Father, Mother or even the Void of Nirvana? Do you think I care which of My special children you feel closest to - Jesus, Mary, Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed or any of the others? You can call Me and My Special Ones any name you choose, if only you would go about My business of loving one another as I love you. How can you keep neglecting something so simple? I'm not telling you to abandon your religions. Enjoy your religions, honor them, learn from them, just as you should enjoy, honor, and learn from your parents. But do you walk around telling everyone that your parents are better than theirs? Your religion, like your parents, may always have the most special place in your heart; I don't mind that at all. And I don't want you to combine all the Great Traditions in One Big Mess. Each religion is unique for a reason. Each has a unique style so that people can find the best path for themselves. But My Special Children - the ones that your religions revolve around - all live in the same place (My heart) and they get along perfectly, I assure you. The clergy must stop creating a myth of sibling rivalry where there is none. My blessed children of Earth, the world has grown too small for your pervasive religious bigotries and confusion. The whole planet is connected by air travel, satellite dishes, telephones, fax machines, rock concerts, diseases, and mutual needs and concerns. Get with the program! If you really want to help then commit yourselves to figuring out how to feed your hungry, clothe your naked, protect your abused, and shelter your poor. And just as importantly, make your own everyday life a shining example of kindness and good humor. I've given you all the resources you need, if only you abandon your fear of each other and begin living, loving, and laughing together. Finally, My Children everywhere, think of the life of Jesus and the fearlessness with which He chose to live and die. As I love Him, so do I love each one of you. I'm not really ticked off, I just wanted to grab your attention because I hate to see you suffer. But I gave you free will. I just want you to be happy. Always. Trust in Me. Your One and Only, God An Impatient Letter From God Author: Bo Lozoff As read on the May 16, 1998 Paul Harvey Radio Show Original transcript at http://www.ktrs.com/fromgod.htm

I thought we paid our politicians to do a good job for us. Truth is not sacrificed - safety of the polulace is. We have a good governmental system. Mob rule nearly destroyed France. I don't need to know where the mountain troops are in Usbekistan! I trust our elected officials. Heaven help them if they do not live up to our newly-rigorous demands!

They say now that there is a 100% chance that they will strike again but can't say where.

Indeed, they successfully revel in our tragedy. We are all "infidels" in their cultish belief structure, which is so against true Islam. They are not sane people. They kill for their rewards. I wonder how long before they kill off all of their devotees. Not soon enough, I fear. Be safe, Lucie! ...and everyone!

The first death of Anthrax in Forida is now believe to have been intentional. :-(

Saturday October 6 4:41 PM ET Anthrax Case Puzzles Investigators By AMANDA RIDDLE, Associated Press Writer LANTANA, Fla. (AP) - Relatives of a Florida man who contracted a fatal case of anthrax are being given antibiotics as a precaution and his co-workers have been tested and cleared, health authorities said Saturday. The search to find out how 63-year-old Bob Stevens contracated the rare and extremely lethal inhaled form of the disease expanded one day after his death. More than 50 health and law enforcement officials have fanned out across Palm Beach County to track his movements over the past two months and look for other possible cases. Officials are also going over medical records in four North Carolina counties that he might have visited recently. ``We have a long chronology of common activities we need to pursue,'' Florida epidemiologist Dr. Steven Wiersma said. ``We don't have any really hot leads at this time.'' Investigators are awaiting test results from soil and other specimens. The results could take days. No other cases of anthrax have been reported in the area. Wiersma said several of Stevens' co-workers at the supermarket tabloid The Sun have been tested, but results were negative. Antibiotics are being given to close family members. Officials have said there is no evidence that Stevens was the victim of terrorism. Wiersma said tests of Stevens' blood helped confirm that belief because the anthrax in the sample responded to penicillin. Anthrax developed by some countries as a biological weapon could be resistant to the antibiotic, he said. More...http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011006/us/anthrax_case_27.html Moon, do you have a source for your scary news? I'd love to get a few sources!

This man also visited North Carolina where he might have contracted it. Many leads to follow before the media needs to fighten us any more than we are already!

From The Miami Herald Florida man dies from anthrax Search is on for source and other possible cases BY LARRY LEBOWITZ, LISA ARTHUR AND WILLIAM YARDLEY A Palm Beach County man died Friday from inhaled anthrax, but health officials continued to assure an anxious state that he was stricken with an isolated case of the deadly disease -- increasingly feared as a bioterrorism weapon -- though how he contracted it remains a mystery. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Doctors want direction in preventing infection So far, the search in S. Florida for other anthrax cases is negative Terrorism alert led to diagnosis of rare, fatal disease Previous coverage Friends, relatives wonder how S. Florida man contracted anthrax What is anthrax? Anthrax Q&A Graphic: Unseen perils -- Chemical and biological weapons Is nation prepared? Is U.S. prepared to battle germ weapons? Experts fear U.S. plan against bioterrorism is inadequate Chemical, biological war front particularly difficult to defend Florida response State scrambles to respond to possible biowarfare attack Hijacker looked into crop-duster in Florida Gas masks fly off store shelves Water systems well prepared for disasters, managers say More coverage Latest developments regarding terrorist attacks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- South Florida man diagnosed with anthrax -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ``I don't want to give anyone the slightest inkling that we know what caused this,'' said Steven Wiersma, the state's chief epidemiologist. ``We're looking at any possible physical way this could have happened.'' A day after Robert Stevens' condition became public, doctors in South Florida and at several hospitals across the country received orders or decided on their own to reexamine certain cases, this time looking for traces of inhalational anthrax, a strain of the disease that is nearly always fatal. The last case of inhaled anthrax reported in the United States was in 1976. Even as health officials urged calm in Florida, they aggressively pursued doctors' reports of possible new cases -- including a 75-year-old Miami-Dade resident -- all of which had proved false on Friday, said Wiersma. ``Three cases have gotten our attention and we feel very comfortable that they are not anthrax. . . . We had several leads that were highly suspicious that we've ruled out,'' he said, adding that ``each passing hour that we don't turn up a new case . . . is very good news.'' Wiersma said an alliance of investigators from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the FBI, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, the state Health Department and the Palm Beach County Health Department had ``cast a very wide net.'' By lunchtime Friday, investigators were inspecting Stevens' Lantana home behind crime-scene tape. In the back of the investigators' Ford Explorer: plastic coolers filled with supplies, boxes of latex gloves and a small manual, Emergency Response to Terrorism Job Aid. The six investigators working at the Stevens house were one of three teams officials said had been deployed to investigate the case. One team planned to trace Stevens' travels, habits and lifestyle over the last 60 days -- considered the maximum incubation time for anthrax. The other investigative teams began poring through South Florida hospital records and medical examiner records across the state, looking for suspicious symptoms or unexplained deaths since the terrorist attacks Sept. 11. Several of the suspected terrorists trained as pilots in South Florida and lived within 10 miles of the Stevens home. Officials acknowledged Friday they were in uncharted territory, responding to the anthrax case with unprecedented investigative scope as concern over bioterrorism has surged following the attacks. BAFFLING CASE Palm Beach County Health Department spokesman Tim O'Connor, stationed for most of the day at the county's emergency operations center, said even experienced investigators are feeling challenged by the Stevens case. ``They've never had one like this,'' he said. Inhalational anthrax in people -- caused by breathing anthrax spores in the air -- is extremely rare nationwide. Only 18 inhalational cases were documented in the United States in the 20th Century. A less serious form of anthrax, caused by skin contact with anthrax spores and usually resulting in skin lesions that can be treated with penicillin, was last reported in the state in 1974. The same form was reported in Texas earlier this year. The skin disease is usually contracted by people who work with infected farm animals. Anthrax has not appeared in Florida livestock for half a century. In addition to state and local investigators, the CDC has dispatched 12 staffers to work on the investigation in Florida. BIOHAZARD BAGS After 2 1/2 hours at the Stevens house, investigators hauled away several large red biohazard bags, the type hospitals use for medical waste. They drove off just as a crowd of schoolchildren ran up the block from their afternoon bus stop. The investigators told Palm Beach County sheriff's deputies who joined them at the house that they were there to collect samples and unspecified items. Wiersma, the epidemiologist, later said the investigators likely took for testing items such as fertilizer containers and pesticide sprayers. The investigators carried electronic monitoring devices and black duffel bags into the home. Their only visible protection was the latex gloves. They did not wear protective suits or masks. They combed through the house and its attached storage room, then moved to Stevens' prized vegetable garden in the side yard. One investigator appeared to be taking measurements of the air with a hand-held device. Another collected samples of the garden soil and went through two compost piles. Next they moved to a white Saturn in the driveway. First they checked under the hood, then they spent about 15 minutes inside the car. They left without comment, and a Palm Beach sheriff's deputy removed the crime-scene tape that had been strung around the house before most of the people who live in the working-class neighborhood returned home from work. A private security firm patrolled outside the house Thursday and Friday. Stevens, 63, was pronounced dead about 4 p.m. Friday at JFK Memorial Hospital in Atlantis, in Palm Beach County. His passage was swift, beginning Sunday when he first felt poorly while driving from Charlotte to Durham, N.C., to visit his daughter's boyfriend at Duke University. The family drove back to their daughter's home in Charlotte the same afternoon. Just a day or two earlier Stevens had felt well enough to hike in the mountains near Chimney Rock, outside Asheville. FEELING ILL By the time Stevens left Charlotte for Florida at 6 a.m. Monday, he felt so badly that his wife, Maureen, drove the entire 14-hour trip while Stevens stayed in the back seat. Within hours of their return to Palm Beach County, they were heading to the hospital. Stevens was admitted about 2 a.m. Tuesday, initially able to speak with emergency room workers. He was no longer coherent when the hospital's infectious disease specialist, Dr. Larry Bush, took over the case. Family members told medical workers Stevens had been confused, had a high fever and had been vomiting. By 8 a.m. he was on life support, breathing with the aid of a ventilator. A state lab first found the anthrax bacteria Thursday, and the CDC confirmed the finding that afternoon. There has been much speculation, but nothing close to proof, of how Stevens contracted anthrax. Some have even questioned whether Stevens might have encountered anthrax in his work as a photo editor for supermarket tabloids, several of which are published in Boca Raton. AUTOPSY PLANNED Ron Haines, a photographer who works with Stevens, characterized his colleague as a desk-bound editor. ``It's a desk job,'' Haines said. ``He was sitting at his desk.'' Wiersma said officials are trying to arrange an autopsy. And in North Carolina, officials have launched a similarly complex investigation of places Stevens visited. So far, they have discovered no signs of anthrax. Late this week, investigators in Florida were able to individually rule out suspected additional cases ``on the order of hours,'' with assistance from a high-tech lab technique -- called PCR technology -- that they are using at a state-run medical lab in Miami-Dade, Wiersma said. Researchers insert a genetic probe into either a blood sample, cerebral fluid or material collected from the lungs to search of evidence of anthrax DNA. Wiersma said investigators have not ruled out that Stevens could have been a victim of terrorism. Other experts say the complicated case leaves plenty of room for that possibility. Dr. Frederick Southwick, chief of infectious diseases at the University of Florida's College of Medicine, on Friday dismissed suggestions that Stevens might have contracted the disease while working in his garden. POSSIBLE TERRORISM Southwick said it would have been impossible for anyone to inhale anthrax spores through soil. Rather, he speculated, the spores must have been airborne by design. ``I honestly think that somebody released some anthrax,'' Southwick said. ``The fact that it's in the area near where the terrorists were living, and that it's the first case since 1974 -- that is too much.'' Southwick said it was also possible that Stevens could have forced anthrax spores airborne if he had handled an infected animal or animal product. Herald staff writers Lila Arzua, Jennifer Babson, Lesley Clark, Daniel de Vise, Manny Garcia, David Green, David Kidwell, Sara Olkon and Peter Wallsten, and Herald researcher Elisabeth Donovan contributed to this report.

(Marcia) Letter from God: "I hate to break it to you, but I don't write. My longhand is awful, and I've always been more of a 'doer' anyway..." I never doubted it for a minute! LOL "I swear to Me that I never threatened Oral Roberts. I never rode in any of Rajneesh's Rolls Royces. I never told Pat Robertson to run for president, and I've never EVER had a conversation with Jim Baker, Jerry Falwell, or Jimmy Swaggart!" I would love to send this to Falwell and the others. Thanks for this Marcia!

Thanks Moon for the article. I could not find one and your is great. Suzee, I loved that Letter from God. I can think of a lot of people who need to read it! Happy news for me since I use this airport in about 2 weeks to attend my son's wedding: Honolulu Airport is one of the best-protected airports in the country during this time of heightened national security, said the airport's federal security manager. Allen Agor, who reports to the Federal Aviation Administration's assistant administrator for security, said new high-tech explosive detection machines, six canine detection teams, increased security measures and a "battalion strength" of military, federal, state and civilian law enforcement officers provide a highly visible armed deterrent to criminal acts against civilian aviation. "It's safer to fly now," Agor told legislators reviewing Hawaii's terrorism readiness yesterday. "(Security) is a notch above what it was on Sept. 11." Agor added that plans for federal control of security at state airports will likely take place in the next six months. State and federal officials say Hawaii continues to prepare for possible acts of terrorism, although it can never know what, if anything, may be a target. Edward Correa Jr., adjutant general of the state Department of Defense, said assessment teams reviewed critical state and county buildings yesterday, as well as other infrastructure, to see how they could be protected. Key to all this readiness, Correa said, has been the close communication and coordination developed among all agencies over the past 18 months. Along with state airports, security at Hawaii's waterways has improved, state harbors manager Barry Kim said. Honolulu Harbor has been closed to recreational vessels while the Coast Guard patrols waters near the airport reef runway. Also closed is the Aloha Tower observation deck. And all state harbors have been closed indefinitely to pole fishing, Kim said. State Public Safety Director Ted Sakai said he is reassessing manpower needs at the state courts, prisons, state buildings including the state Capitol, and state airports. The department's budgets are being reviewed with an emphasis on health, safety and security. http://starbulletin.com/2001/10/06/news/

Lucie sent this and I consider it important enough for all to read! Even if I may have posted this before, read it again. I need to do so! A message from the pilot! Worth reading if you are going to be flying anytime soon. The following is from a letter by a professional friend and her return flight to D.C. this week. "I just wanted to drop you all a note and let you know that I arrived safe and sound into Dulles Airport tonight [9/15] at about 6:00. It was an interesting flight. The airport in Denver was almost spooky, it was so empty and quiet. No one was in line for the security check point when I got there so that went fairly quickly, just x-ray of my bags and then a chemical test to be sure nothing explosive was on them. Then I waited 2 1/2 hours to board the plane. What happened after we boarded was interesting and thought I would share it with you. The pilot/captain came on the loudspeaker after the doors were closed. His speech went like this: "First I want to thank you for being brave enough to fly today. The doors are now closed and we have no help from the outside for any problems that might occur inside this plane. As you could tell when you checked in, the government has made some changes to increase security in the airports. "They have not, however, made any rules about what happens after those doors close. Until they do that, we have made our own rules and I want to share them with you. Once those doors close, we only have each other. "The security has taken care of a threat like guns with all of the increased scanning, etc. Then we have the supposed bomb. If you have a bomb, there is no need to tell me about it, or anyone else on this plane; you are already in control. So, for this flight, there are no bombs that exist on this plane. "Now, the threats that are left are things like plastics, wood, knives, and other weapons that can be made or things like that which can be used as weapons. "Here is our plan and our rules. If someone or several people stand up and say they are hijacking this plane, I want you all to stand up together. Then take whatever you have available to you and throw it at them. Throw it at their faces and heads so they will have to raise their hands to protect themselves. "The very best protection you have against knives are the pillows and blankets. Whoever is close to these people should then try to get a blanket over their head--then they won't be able to see. Once that is done, get them down and keep them there. Do not let them up. I will then land the plane at the closest place and we WILL take care of them. "After all, there are usually only a few of them and we are 200+ strong! We will not allow them to take over this plane. "I find it interesting that the US Constitution begins with the words 'We, the people'--that's who we are, THE people and we will not be defeated." With that, the passengers on the plane all began to applaud, people had tears in their eyes, and we began the trip toward the runway. The flight attendant then began the safety speech. One of the things she said is that we are all so busy and live our lives at such a fast pace. She asked that everyone turn to their neighbors on either side and introduce themselves, tell each other something about your families and children, show pictures, whatever. She said "For today, we consider you family. We will treat you as such and ask that you do the same with us." Throughout the flight we learned that for the crew, this was their first flight since Tuesday's tragedies. It was a day that everyone leaned on each other and together everyone was stronger than any one person alone. It was quite an experience. You can imagine the feeling when that plane touched down at Dulles and we heard "welcome to Washington Dulles Airport, where the local time is 5:40." Again, the cabin was filled with applause. Last night I saw a program with college students where one of them said that at their campus there are no more hyphenated titles, i.e., African-American, etc., everyone is just an American. No one will ever be able to take that pride away from us.

Liz K) Whenever it was that they were in Boston about to try to get some suspects, the media caught on, and practically gave them a head start to get out of there before the FBI could get to them... The postscript to this incident: The day after the bombing, three Saudis in their early twenties traveled to Boston to visit their father, who was being treated at a hospital there. Their bill at the Westin Hotel was being paid by the fiancee of one of them -- a man whose name is similar to that of Mohamed Atta, one of the hijackers. After a hotel clerk tipped the FBI, agents swarmed the hotel. An agent saw one of the women outside her room and pointed a gun at her, according to the family's attorney, Jonathan Shapiro. She tried to run away but he grabbed her and hit her across the mouth, he said. The three were released after five hours, and the Saudi Embassy called it a "humiliation." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37533-2001Sep27.html and: .......on Wednesday, a young Saudi woman in traditional garb, her face veiled, stepped out of her room at the Westin Copley Place Hotel, which had become a second home for her family during numerous trips to Boston to accompany their ailing father for medical treatment here. The plan was to meet her sister-in-law and brother-in-law at the elevator bank. She would barely get past her hotel room door. As she stooped to pick up a newspaper, a man in plain-clothes pointed a handgun at her as he grabbed her, dragged her down the hallway, and handcuffed her, barking demands that she silence her screams, according to her lawyer, Jonathan Shapiro. Thus began a five-hour ordeal for the woman and her family, in which, Shapiro alleges, she suffered a 6-inch scratch across her face, her sister-in-law was kicked in the head, and the whole family was detained for hours by authorities -including the FBI, Boston police, and Immigration and Naturalization Service officials - without the right to an attorney. Boston police referred all questions about the incident to the FBI, which declined comment. The family members, who asked that their names be withheld for fear of their safety, are well-connected Saudis with business interests in the region. Shapiro, a local criminal defense attorney, said he suspects they were targeted by law enforcement officials last week because the woman's fiance shares a name nearly identical to Mohamed Atta, one of the suspected hijackers in Tuesday's attack. The fiance had visited the family at the hotel but had left before the Wednesday incident. The interrogation, which followed a stake-out of the hotel and a raid by a Boston police SWAT team, FBI, and State Police detectives, took place in a climate of fear and anger the day after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Law enforcement sources later confirmed that there was no connection between the family and the hijackings, saying that it was a case of mistaken identity. The family yesterday permitted their attorney to speak on their behalf in the hope, Shapiro said, of highlighting the danger of indiscriminate targeting of Arabs. http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/259/nation/Saudi_family_accuses_agents_of_abuse_in_case_of_mistaken_identity+.shtml

"Fatima", in the Afghani resistance group called RAWA, a women's-rights organization in which any member pretty much faces an automatic death sentence, was asked about the Northern Alliance by Salon: "Do you support the Northern Alliance?" "We condemn the cooperation of the United States with the Northern Alliance. This is another nightmare for our people -- the Northern Alliance are the second Taliban. "The Northern Alliance are hypocrites: They say they are for democracy and human rights, but we can't forget the black experience we had with them. Seventy-year-old grandmothers were raped during their rule, thousands of girls were raped, thousands were killed and tortured. They are the first government that started this tragedy in Afghanistan." http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/10/02/fatima/print.html I'm adding Salon to my list of news sources at http://www.spring.net/news They've been fearless in their coverage.

I see where attackes on Afghanistan have begun. It's been a non - news day for me so far. But I'll do a scan of the usual sources soon and turn on the tv, see what's been doing on.

Non-news??? I've been glued since 7AM Hawaiian time when we were looking for pre-game football. Afghanistan women tear my heart. NO one should be so treated. Thanks for the link! Sometimes you have to make deals with the Devil to catch a greater EVIL...!

I will remain calm. From The Miami Herald: Published Monday, October 8, 2001 Second case of anthrax found at South Florida tabloid BY MANNY GARCIA and LARRY LEBOWITZ The Boca Raton offices of American Media Inc. were shuttered Monday after a second employee showed signs of the rare anthrax bacteria that killed a 63-year-old photo editor for the Sun supermarket tabloid last week. The second employee, a 73-year-old man initially hospitalized for pneumonia, has not been determined to have anthrax, although a nasal swab showed signs he had been exposed to it, a state health official said. FBI spokeswoman Judy Orihuela said the man, whose name has not been released, is in stable condition at an undisclosed South Florida hospital and is expected to survive. More than 300 employees of the National Enquirer, the Star, the Globe, the Sun and the Weekly World News who work for AMI are being asked to go to the health department offices in Delray Beach for antibiotics and further testing. On Monday, Florida Health Secretary John Agwunobi urged any employees or visitors ``who have spent more than an hour'' in the AMI building, 5401 NW Broken Sound Blvd., since Aug. 1, to go to the Delray Beach Health center. The health department has also set up a hotline, 1-800-342-3557, for anyone employed in the building or who has visited the building since Aug. 1. Agwunobi said a sample in the building tested positive for anthrax ``within the work area frequented by the first case.'' He said he believed the sample was from the computer keyboard of Bob Stevens, a Sun photo editor who died Friday of inhaled anthrax. FBI and health department officials said the second case was confirmed late Sunday night after nose swabs on a co-worker of Stevens showed signs of the bacteria that causes pulmonary anthrax. Tim O'Connor, spokesman for the Palm Beach County Health Department, said the man did not have a ``full blown'' case of anthrax, but the nasal swabs showed signs of the same bacterial spore that led to the fatal case of inhalation anthrax that killed Stevens and led to widespread fears -- so far unconfirmed -- of a bioterrorist attack. An environmental test inside the American Media building in Boca Raton also confirmed the presence of the bacteria, O'Connor said. Agwunobi said the person was found to have anthrax ``within his nasal cavities.'' He has not shown any symptoms of clinical anthrax, Lt. Gov. Frank Brogan said. State health officials received a ``preliminary positive indication'' of anthrax Sunday afternoon and confirmation ``was obtained late in the evening,'' Agwunobi said. ``The building has been secured for the purpose of further environmental public health testing and we have begun to contact employees,'' he said. ``Our intent is to have the employees come to a centralized site in the Palm Beach County area so we can test them, so we can provide them with education, and so that we can provide them with prophylactic antibiotics.'' Brogan said the FBI is ``in control'' of the investigation, and that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is working with the bureau. American Media is attempting to re-create visitor logs dating back to Aug. 1 as well as a complete list of former employees who may have been inside the building, in an office park near Glades Road, west of Interstate 95, as recently as Aug. 1. The company started notifying employees Sunday evening that they were not supposed to show up for work in Boca Raton. Many were initialy instructed to work at the offices of a sister publication, the Spanish language supermarket tabloid Mira! in downtown Miami. A growing team of investigators from the federal Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, working with the FBI and the state and local health departments, are continuing to re-create Stevens' personal and work habits and travels in hopes of identifying the source of the infection. At least five units from the Boca Raton police department started to block off parking lots, and shutter buildings of America Media Inc. Delivery people and FedEx trucks that usually do business in the building were turned back throughout the morning. Police and security personnel from American Media refused to say whether the health department had returned since finding out swabs taken from offices of the tabloid were positive for anthrax. Directly across the street, in a Broken Sound Boulevard office park, Peter Amodeo paced back and forth smoking a cigarette. He works for Paz Building Management, which runs an office across from American Media. ``Some people in our building are really freaking out. This is very scary. It's not like they raise chickens or anything in that building across the street,'' said Amodeo. ``And that building makes a lot of enemies because of the things they put in the paper. They have bomb scares all the time. They're always standing in our parking lot because the building is being searched. I think we're all just a little bit anxious today.'' Amodeo said that, as far as he knew, his company had not received any information about what was going on across the street, or whether employees in his building should be concerned. ``But they're worried anyway, because a lot of those people who work across the street park in our parking lots every day,'' he said. ``It doesn't matter if you can't catch it from another person. Nobody is thinking logically."

There goes Florida's tourism :-((

Moon, please wash your hands a lot! No rubbing your nose or eyes when out in public (yes, I know you know better!). Appatently this got transmitted to the second man with a contiminated computer keyboard. At least that is what we are hearing way out here 6 hours behind Florida! Hugs, Moon! We need you to be well and safe! And everyone else, too!

Speaking of tourism, Hawaii's has become nil since it requires long distance flying to get here and not commercial craft are being allowed in port other than the usual ones - and they get a complete inspection before being allowed in. There are advantages and disadvantages living out here so remotely. My island has NO strategic importance and little population. However, we have become self-sufficient by necessity!

Hugs, Moon! We need you to be well and safe! And everyone else, too! Thanks, Marcia! It appears some people in the Miami area have been sent envelopes containing a white powder. One man threw it out and it caused sparks and he suffered a burning sensation in his hand. Had to call paramedics and his family were all checked into the hospital.

Speaking (further) of tourism... My departure date to go to Indonesia (Bali) has been set back indefinitely. I was set to leave this month, to begin my dissertation research. A number of other scholars have been flown back to the US, as there have been numerous threats of "sweeping" tourist hotels for American and UK citizens. Ah well...

Indonesia is the largest Islamic country in the world. Be safe, Winter, Dear. Hilo is nice this time of year...! =)

Marcia Indonesia is the largest Islamic country in the world Yes, although my research is in Bali, which is over 95% Hindu. BUT it also happens to be host to the densest population of Western tourists in the whole nation, so there's the possibility of the island still being targets of anti-US "sweeps." Thanks, MArcia. I will be safe, by waiting this out a few more weeks.

Suzee, I didn't know the rest of the story. Thanks for sharing that...how awful for them! I think the point I was trying to make is still there, however- a lot of people will be questioned and interogated, both innocent and guilty. I'm not saying that violent treatment by authorities is ok by any means. But I don't think that the media should be following every single little detail of the hunt. "yellow journalism" of sorts is not what we need right now, and I'm frankly scared that the media/the entertainment industry is going to give some would-be terrorist ideas as to what to do next, or let them know and give them warning that we're coming to get them in the next few minutes. Sorry, Terry...I know that belongs in another topic.

Statement by USGS Director Chip Groat on World Disaster Reduction Day Today, October 10, is World Disaster Reduction Day--a term that in the past has applied largely to natural disasters. But this year, in the wake of the September 11 attacks on the United States, it has taken on a new meaning. Unnatural disasters, those caused by hatred and intolerance, may seem an even more daunting challenge to our society than the earthquakes and floods we have faced before. However, the lessons we have learned from a century of battling natural hazards can help us in this new fight. Over the past 100 years, we've gotten much better at saving lives. In 1900, a hurricane hit Galveston, Texas, without warning, taking at least 6,000 lives and perhaps twice that many. In 1902, an incandescent cloud of volcanic gas and ash swept down the flanks of Mont Pelee, in Martinique, wiping out a city of 30,000 people. In 1906, a great earthquake struck San Francisco, taking hundreds to perhaps thousands of lives. From those disasters, we learned, and those lessons have saved lives throughout the 20th century. Terrorism has become another of the hazards we face, and we can use many of our approaches to dealing with natural hazards as we begin to deal with this unnatural hazard--approaches such as monitoring the warning signals, understanding the problem, sharing information, educating the public to take steps that protect themselves and their loved ones. It will take a long-term commitment from all sectors of our society, but we have made progress against the threat of natural disasters with these tools and we can use them to reduce the threat of terrorism as well. Many of the steps we have taken to mitigate one natural disaster have provided unexpected benefits for others--building codes that protect from ground shaking also strengthen buildings against strong winds and landslides. In the same way, actions to reduce risks and losses from natural disasters-- such as improved communication structures, better notification systems, strengthened infrastructures--can help protect us against attack, and actions to reduce vulnerability to terrorism can help in the fight against natural disasters. USGS capabilities have already been critically important as we respond to the disaster and prepare our Nation for the future. The USGS geospatial data set is the Nation's only national coverage of our infrastructure--our dams, bridges, highways, airports, and urban areas. These maps and images have contributed significantly to the efforts to understand the scope and focus resources as needed for recovery. Looking to the future, ongoing work on real-time water quality may prove invaluable in monitoring public water supplies to ensure our water is safe to drink. The geophysical techniques used to monitor earthquakes may be useful in response and recovery. These are only a few of the possibilities that can be envisioned. We need to bring the full impact of science and technology to bear on the hazards we face, whether terror in the skies or tremors in the Earth. The USGS stands ready to play our part in the struggle to ensure a safe and secure future for our children and our world. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kathleen K. Gohn U.S. Geological Survey Public Affairs Specialist Office of Communications 703-648-4242 phone 119 National Center 703-648-4466 fax Reston, VA 20192 kgohn@usgs.gov

I happen to agree with Rush on this totally! Liberals among us, I read your posts. Afford me the same respect! From Rush's Page: On Monday, I received a note from the editrix of The Limbaugh Letter, Diana Schneider. I had not been watching PMSNBC this morning. I'd been flipping around to some other channels. Diana wrote the following: "Rush, it seems that the peaceniks may have their atrocity that you advised them to wait for. All morning on PMSNBC there was nothing but moaning and wailing about four United Nations workers who reportedly were killed yesterday. These four were the only hope that poor, starving Afghan people had, we're being told. It's been wall-to-wall television grief. A U.N. spokesbabe came out and gave a snide lecture to the allied forces that combatants should be more careful to distinguish between soldiers and innocent civilians." Now, three or four people removing land mines during a war? Is that not what they were doing? This is the residue of the Princess Di legacy, here. These people didn't know enough to get out of the way. They're out in the middle of a war removing land mines, for crying out loud! This is not what I call intelligence! They're removing land mines in the middle of a war, and unfortunately, they go up and give 'em some orange vests! They pretend they're quarterbacks at a National Football League in practice or whatever, where they'd get red vests, so we won't target them. You know, there are some people - I'm not one of them, I want to stress this - who will say that the United Nations would not be above placing these people in this situation for this express purpose, just to cause this. I'm not one of them, but I think that you probably know that there are people who are, or who could hold that opinion. I've received another note from a friend who has an interesting perspective on these peaceniks, the U.N.-types who really think you can win wars with good vibes - the types who think a few U.N. workers dying is a tragedy, but that six thousand Americans dying isn't. Folks, the timing of the peaceniks couldn't be better for demonstrating exactly who and what they are. What they first and foremost are is anti- American. We hadn't even done anything yet, and they were demonstrating. They switched that one anti-WTO protest in Washington D.C. on a dime to being an anti-war protest, because what they are primarily is anti-American and anti-America's policies. If these people were to be patient, and wait for things they can call atrocities - like if we happen to bomb a building Mullah Omar calls a baby milk plant, or whatever - they might get some sympathy. You know what, I wonder if in Afghanistan they have abortion caves instead of hospitals. "Rush, you're flirting dangerously here. You're risking offending people." Well, I'm just wondering. If we happen to hit a Mullah Omar cave or something or whatever, there'd be sympathy. I mean, they're trying to gin up an excuse to say we killed civilians - which they'll say no matter what. It's just not working. There was a conflicting story Monday that Mullah Omar, through a spokesman, told the world that 20 civilians had been killed in the first wave. Suddenly, they care about civilian casualties, now that we're bombing their strongholds around the clock. Day, night, clouds, sun, snow, pollution, clear as a bell - it doesn't matter. We're just hitting round the clock. There is no break from it. So they put out this news that 20 civilians were dead. Well, they got their signals crossed because they went to the hospital and the hospital said, "Nope, nobody here." They had no reports of casualties in the hospitals or anywhere else! They're putting out false information, which is no surprise to us, but just bewilders the media and liberals. The point is that the protesters in this country, the peaceniks, ought to be waiting for us to do something bad before protesting. Instead, the minute we move to defend ourselves, the minute we take a defensive procedure, they go into action. They were in action as soon as we lost those five or six thousand people, as a matter of fact - and there's only one conclusion: they hate America, and they're so blinded by that hate, they aren't even aware of it.

Yeah, Marcia! I watch Italian TV via satellite and am disgusted by the thousands of protesters out with the red communist flag. They are nothing but trouble makers with no original thoughts of their own.

~~~~(Liz K)I'm frankly scared that the media/the entertainment industry is going to give some would-be terrorist ideas as to what to do next, or let them know and give them warning that we're coming to get them in the next few minutes.~~~~ I didn't intend to disagree with your point - I don't want any leaks to create problems for the police, armed forces, etc., either as they capture (hopefully) these crazies. I do want them to exercise some caution. The incident in Boston happened the day after the attack on the WTC in a charged atmosphere. But I'm not as trusting of the government as some (maybe I've been on the receiving end of "non-truths" from too many different administrations). I like the idea of all the checks and balances and I want to know *everything* as soon as it is safe. I would prefer that neither the government nor the press nor the police (FBI, etc.) have free reign to do amything without being accountable. I like Walter Cronkite's idea about press coverage below (and I'm sorry, too, if this should be posted in the other topic-it's kind of a mixed bag). Cronkite, 84, believes the current generation of network anchors has been "first-rate" in their coverage ....With the potential of the United States waging war in Afghanistan and elsewhere, Cronkite cautions journalists not to become overly manipulated by the military. "We can't let what happened in the Gulf War happen again, when the Pentagon wouldn't allow cameras to cover the war on the ground," he says. "That doesn't mean you simply broadcast live from the battlefield so the enemy a mile away knows what American troops are doing. You work with the military about what information gets released when. We did that during World War II, and it worked just fine. The public has a right to know what really goes on." http://www.tvguide.com/magazine/robins/011008.asp An odd, but interesting story about the involvement of the entertainment industry (giving the government ideas!!): U.S. Army turns to Hollywood for theories By Guylaine Cadorette, Hollywood.com Staff HOLLYWOOD, October 9, 2001 -- Government intelligence specialists have been secretly appealing to Hollywood filmmakers and writers for terrorist scenarios, Variety reports. The U.S. Army ordered a special committee to gather at the University of Southern California last week to brainstorm possible terrorist targets and schemes in the U.S. and to offer possible solutions to those threats. The ad hoc committee was formed in August 1999 after the Army awarded a five-year contract to USC to create the Institute for Creative Technologies. The ISC was to enlist the entertainment industry, video game makers and computer scientists to improve virtual reality and simulation training for soldiers. Screenwriters Steven E. de Souza (Die Hard), Paul De Meo and Danny Bilson (The Rocketeer) are involved in the committee, as are directors David Fincher (Fight Club), Spike Jonze (Being John Malkovich), Randal Kleiser (Grease) and Mary Lambert (The In Crowd). One USC insider told Variety the group was focused on short-term threats against the country and had already met twice via telephone conference with the Pentagon. James Korris, ITC creative director, confirmed that meetings with the Army were taking place but did not elaborate on any specific committee recommendations. http://www.hollywood.com/news/detail/article/1093259

Walter Cronkite:The public has a right to know what really goes on." While I agree with him, IMO the journalists today are not in the same category as the ones in WW II. They seem to be more agressive & self-serving. And in some ways disdainful of the administration and the armed forces.They never got over Viet- Nam. Not many Ernie Pyles around.

Yup, Evelyn. You are sadly correct. It is all show business now, and ratings! Be safe, My Dear! *HUGS* Tornadoes!!! NO playing Helen Hunt, please! We love you!

It's been one month now. The changes wrought to our society and way of life have been enormous. But life will go on. India helped FBI trace ISI-terrorist links MANOJ JOSHI TIMES NEWS NETWORK NEW DELHI: While the Pakistani Inter Services Public Relations claimed that former ISI director-general Lt-Gen Mahmud Ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on Monday, the truth is more shocking. Top sources confirmed here on Tuesday, that the general lost his job because of the "evidence" India produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the World Trade Centre. The US authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to WTC hijacker Mohammed Atta from Pakistan by Ahmad Umar Sheikh at the instance of Gen Mahumd. Senior government sources have confirmed that India contributed significantly to establishing the link between the money transfer and the role played by the dismissed ISI chief. While they did not provide details, they said that Indian inputs, including Sheikh�s mobile phone number, helped the FBI in tracing and establishing the link. A direct link between the ISI and the WTC attack could have enormous repercussions. The US cannot but suspect whether or not there were other senior Pakistani Army commanders who were in the know of things. Evidence of a larger conspiracy could shake US confidence in Pakistan�s ability to participate in the anti-terrorism coalition. " continued at http://www.timesofindia.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=1454238160 and why and how osama escaped our 75 missiles: " �98 attack: Tip off to Osama cooked ISI chief�s goose

More recent comments on the terrorism issue from Woods today, courtesy Amy Reiter's Salon.com gossip column: ---------------- "I won't get on an airplane unless it's an absolute necessity," Woods tells the Calgary Sun. And that's just one of the ways the creepy actor has seen fit to adjust his life in light of the recent terrorist attacks. "I won't go into a stadium, and I won't attend a big public event," he says. He's also refusing to travel to New York for the premiere of his new movie, "Riding in Cars With Boys," despite a specific request from Mayor Giuliani. "I think too few people have grasped the reality we're totally and irrevocably at war," Woods opines. And though he refuses to comment even now about the four Middle Eastern-looking men he told the FBI he encountered a few months back, he will say this. "I've spent a great deal of time lately talking to the FBI and have learned some startling things. I'm convinced, as they are, that there will be more horrific acts of terrorism."

I was absolutely delightedly stunned to see the Prime Ministers of Pakistan and India cooperating and greeting one another on the news last night. War breeds strange alliances. Perhaps there might be some good out of the ashes of this very frightening time. On Art Bell's show last night they were longing for the good old days of the checks and balances of the Cold War era. Who could have imagined!

The White House and the media have agreed not to turn Bin Laden's video releases in to tv wallpaper, playing them round the clock in their entirety. The idea, as I get it, is that these tapes may contain coded instructions to sleepers waiting to wreak destruction. Makes sense. An example is the statement that doesn't make sense about the "80 years" as the period of oppression. I mean, nothing really happened in 1921 that relates to this, or does it? The lead story now is that there may be additional terrorist attacks over the next several days, according to the FBI. The President is going to speak in about 15 seconds.

Finally sanity. It got so nauseating to see him speak on tv that I shut it off. as for 1921: Anglo-Afghan Treaty of 1921 Also called " Treaty of Kabul" because it was negotiated and signed at Kabul by Henry R. C. Dobbs, the British envoy, and Mahmud Tarzi, chief of the Afghan delegation, after arduous, eleven month negotiations. The treaty restored "friendly and commercial relations" between the two governments after the third Anglo-Afghan War and negotiations at the Mussoorie Conference and Rawalpindi. The negotiations proceeded in four phases: During the first session, January 20 to April 9, 1921, the Afghan Amir unsuccessfully demanded territorial concessions, while Britain wanted the exclusion of Russian consular offices from southeastern Afghanistan. In the second phase, from April 9 to mid-July, 1921, Britain asked Afghanistan to break the newly established diplomatic with Russia in exchange for a subsidy of 4 million rupee and weapons, as well as guarantees from unprovoked Russian aggression. When in the third stage, from mid-July to September 18, the British foreign office informed the Italian government that it was about to conclude an agreement which would, "admit the superior and predominant political influence of Britain" in Afghanistan, the Afghans refused to accept an "alliances." An exclusive treaty was impossible after Afghanistan announced ratification of the Russian-Afghan treaty of 1921. In the fourth and final stage of negotiations, from September 18 to December 8, 1921, the British mission twice made preparations to return to India, when finally an agreement was signed at Kabul on November 22, 1921. Ratifications were exchanged on February 6 of 1922. In the treaty both government "mutually certify and respect each with regard to the other all rights of internal and external independence." Afghanistan reaffirmed its acceptance of the boundary west of the Khaibar, subject to minor "re-alignment." Legations were to be opened in London and Kabul, consulates established in various Indian and Afghan towns, and Afghanistan was permitted to import arms and munitions through India. No customs duties were to be charged for goods in transit to Afghanistan and each party agreed to inform the other of major military operations in the frontier belt. Representatives of both states were to meet in the near future to discuss conclusion of a trade convention, which was signed in June 1923. more... http://www.afghan-network.net/Culture/treaties.html

Bush gave one of his best tv appearances tonight. He was eloquent, this whole crisis has moved him to a level many didn't feel he was capable of acheiving. He asked every child in America to send a dollar to a child in Afghanistan.

Hi all Marcia, a cartoon wizard by the name Garrick Tremain lives in New Zealand. I will send you a copy of the October 12, 2001 cartoon in the Press. ITS BRILLIANT!!!!! If you can wait a few days more, you will also get some photos from me of my house and it's residents. I have some ready to go, but have not yet dispatched them. Rob

Perhaps there might be some good out of the ashes of this very frightening time. True unification for peace. It is a dream, let's hope it becomes a reality. As for 1921 could be 1+9=10 the month October and 21 the date. It could be a date to watch for.

Moon!! That is My Son's Wedding day!!! Salvation Army Team Emergency Response Network update One month into its disaster relief support operation in New York City, Salvation Army Team Emergency Response Network (SATERN) volunteers are holding up well. SATERN Amateur Radio Liaison Officer Jeff Schneller, N2HPO, says his current team is doing a fantastic job, and the operation could run for several more weeks. SATERN is now ''making do'' with at least six Amateur Radio volunteers per day, from about 9 AM until 11 PM, primarily to support the Salvation Army World Trade Center canteen operation. Operators have come from all over, including New Hampshire, Ohio, North Carolina, Florida and Missouri, and Schneller said he even had offers of help from England and Canada. Two local groups--the Broadcast Employees Amateur Radio Society (BEARS) and the Electchester VHF Club have been providing exclusive use of their repeaters since Day One. Schneller, who's in the fire alarm and sprinkler business, also has been involved from the start, and--with the understanding and support of his customers--has been logging some long hours. He said most of the volunteers' employers have been supportive as well. Carlos Varon, K2LCV, has been Schneller's backup and is in charge of scheduling volunteers. SATERN radio volunteers have been handling base station duties at Salvation Army Headquarters on 14th Street in Manhattan as well as providing communication at key field sites, aboard supply trucks and at the distribution warehouse. Schneller thanked the dozens of Amateur Radio operators who have turned out to assist. He also said he appreciated the many other offers to help. SATERN now is limiting its fresh volunteers to those available from the Greater New York City area. Schneller strongly advised all Amateur Radio operators to prepare for the future by first getting acquainted with and joining their local ARES or SATERN teams, then by taking the ARRL Amateur Radio Emergency Communications Course. More information about SATERN is available on the SATERN Web site, http://www.satern.org . Information on the ARRL's emergency communications course is available on the ARRL Web site, http://www.arrl.org/cce/ .

In SLATE someone did a back calculation from Osama bin Laden's citation of "80 years" of Islamic suffering. Using the Islamic religious calendar, not the solar or secular 365-day calendar, 9-11-01 turned out to be the exact 80 year anniversary of the ending of the Caliphate by Ataturk. Which makes the most sense of anything.

yup!!! Just please not the 21st of October...! I wonder if the antibiotics I am taking now will protect me from anthrax future? Probably not...

11 Sept. 2001 = 23 Jumada Al-Thani 1422 23 Jumada Al-Thani 1342 = 29 January 1924 The Caliphate was abolished on 3 March 1924. http://www.mfa.gov.tr/grupk/history.htm

Hi all Marcia: yup!!! Just please not the 21st of October...! Rob: And I suppose it is not an option to shift the wedding to a certain spot in Hilo or even better, to a certain city on the east coast of the South Island?? Get a hint?? Rob

Why?? There are some advantages to being in a little country like New Zealand. Save perhaps for Fiji, and maybe Australia we are too small to annoy the hell out anyone enough that they would decide to attack the country. Last country we annoyed was France, and they sent two government agents to blow up the Rainbow Warrior (flagship of Greenpeace), in Waitemata Harbour, Auckland. Some Kiwis have never forgiven the French for that and some probably never will. Rob

Well, it looks like no one is gonna pull any atrocities in China: This from AP: CHINA BLOCKS MIDDLE EAST TICKET HOLDERS "Beijing authorities have instructed Chinese airlines in HK to halt tickets sales to nationals of 19 countries , mainly in the Middle East. China National Aviation Corp , the sole agent of 10 mainland airlines in HK, told travel agents to stop selling tickets to China to holders of certain passports and to refund purchased tickets...for "safety reasons". The memo added tht there would not be a "total ban" ..wording that may have been meant to allow room for diplomats or dignitaries to travel."

Evelyn.....thanks for posting that. I had no idea...!!! Rob, it has been suggested that we claim independence from the US as overthrown Hawaiian nationhood and all that. Rather nasty suggestion, actually. There is not much difference in the poor classes and women status of old Hawaii and old Afghanistan when you get down to the ugly truth. In any case, Mme Pele would love to bless their wedding and I am certain would the loveliness of Christchurch. What a wonderful excuse to go way-down-under!

Another thought on China and forbidding sales of tickets to the Mideast. Our terrorists came in from Canada, from other outside the US places. They took flying lessons and got credentials. For all I know, the pilot of the plane taking me to my son's wedding is a licensed professional pilot bent on sending me to eternal damnation and he to the 20 virgins waiting for him. China is so vast it would be easy to get there illegally!!!

Oh no Marcia, please have faith that you will arrive safely to your son's wedding. The US/Canadian border is so long, is there anyway that it can possibly be effectively controlled? I think that I'd read something some time ago about the Chinese government being very wary of the possiblity of Islamic fundamentalist groups within China. There are provinces in western China were the population is largely not ethnically Chinese and Muslim. This, of course, doesn't mean that all of the Islamic citizens of China want to create their own Islamic republics. I haven't come across the topic since.

Cheryl!!! *HUGS* welcome back! I cannot imagine patrolling China's borders if we cannot control the distances involved on our Canadian border. Unhappily, I think we are just restricting law-abiding citizens. The truly evil will find way to accomplish their nefarous ends. Just like gun laws. Thanks for the good thoughts on my son's wedding. My phamacist, yesterday, said she has very good vibes that all would be well. I'm hanging onto that thought!

Going after the big fish (financial): http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/13/international/13ASSE.html

Now, in the "if this turns out to be true" department: XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SAT OCT 13, 2001 15:29:42 ET XXXXX MAG: U.S. FAILED TO KILL TALIBAN LEADER WHEN HE WAS IN SIGHT DURING FIRST NIGHT OF WAR; RUMSFELD FURIOUS The U.S. military failed to kill Taliban leader Mullah Omar when he was in its sights during the first night of the war, the NEW YORKER is planning to report on Monday. According to publishing sources, Seymour Hersh has filed a story quoting top intelligence-community members claiming to be 'crestfallen' about the incident. MORE Reaction in Washington to the failure to strike immediately was fierce, Hersh reports. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was "kicking a lot of glass and breaking doors," one military official said. An unmanned Predator reconnaissance aircraft operating in the Kabul area identified a convoy carrying Mullah Omar as he fled the capital. The Predator is armed with two anti-tank missiles, but under the rules of engagement in effect Sunday night the C.I.A. could not order such a strike. Although the precise sequence of events could not be fully learned, Hersh reports, General Tommy R. Franks, the commander in charge at the United States Central Command in Florida reported that 'Judge Advocate General, a legal officer', doesn't like this, so we're not going to fire.' It was decided to target a few cars in front of the building to perhaps scare Mullah Omar out of the building to take a look. Omar did leave the building, but not immediately. Soon after he left, Hersh reports, the building was targeted and destroyed by F-18s, too late to kill Omar. "

"According to the intelligence report, the U.S. tipped off Israel last week that bin Laden's al Qaeda cells and networks in Lebanon were complete and ready to launch strikes in Israel. They operate under the command of Imad Mughniyeh, terrorism and intelligence consultant to Iranian spiritual leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said the report. As former head of the Lebanese militant Hezbollah's security apparatus in the 1980s, Mughniyeh was responsible for the 1993 bombing of the U.S. Embassy and Marine barracks in Beirut and the blasting of Israeli locations in Argentina." http://www.freeman.org/m_online/may01/debka.htm "Following the kidnapping last October of the four men P three soldiers on the Lebanese border and Tannenbaum outside the country -J DEBKAfile revealed for the first time that the notorious Lebanese hostage-taker Imad Mughniyeh was behind the snatch P not the Hizballah. This now ties in with another surprising development, recently pieced together by US intelligence in the course of its investigation of the terrorist-bombing of the US Cole in Aden harbor in the same month as the kidnappings: Iranian spiritual ruler Ayatollah KhameneiUs personal security service, which is headed by Mughniyeh, has struck a deal with Bin LadenUs al Qaeda for an operational partnership against US Gulf and Middle East targets as well as Israeli and Jewish interests worldwide." http://www.debka.com/TERRORISM/body_terrorism.html

CHINA BLOCKS MIDDLE EAST TICKET HOLDERS Incredible! But there might be something to it. In Italy there was an anti-war march from Perugia to Assisi there were more than one hundred thousand people. In other cities in Europe there were also anti-war protests. It turns out that Milan is the main European hub for muslim terrorists. Five were arrested today that had planned to bomb the US Embassy in Rome. Which is on Via Veneto. The US better get the ground troups in there and do what they're supposed to do. What is holding them up?

Take a look at David Kline's comments on ground troops in news 54. It strikes at the heart of our survival.

(Moon)In Italy there was an anti-war march from Perugia to Assisi there were more than one hundred thousand people. In other cities in Europe there were also anti-war protests. Yes, I saw some of them interviewed, talking about the need to resolve this through "peaceful negotiations." I'd like to know--what planet do these people come from? Negotiations with whom--with people who do not even value their own lives? Their naivete is appalling.

They are Communists, Mari. Unfortunately, Umbria is a predominantly communist region in Italy. They have no clue. They should just stick to their great wines and mineral waters. I thank God that in Italy we now have a center-right governement after years of abuse from the secular left.

Amen, Moon. Oh, I'm taking the "Story of Yew' on my plane trip upcoming in three days. I understand it is very good and a good diversion for what will be a tense flight. I hope we all wish to get to our destination with lives intact.

I will be thinking of you on Oct. 21st. My very best wishes to you, your son and his bride. :-D

Thanks for your good wishes. I have forwarded them to the Bride and Groom. More at Geo 40 so I don't add too much bliss to a serious topic. Please be careful, Moon, dear! You are not replaceable!!! What a great reason for not opening junk mail!

"Rumseld, fielding reporters' questions at the Pentagon, ridiculed Taliban claims of hundreds of civilian casualties in Afghanistan. The ruling militia escorted American journalists around a crater-pocked area near the village of Karam over the weekend to buttress their claim. But the defense secretary said the targets in that case were underground caves suspected of being used to store weapons. Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters that a secondary fire touched off by the bomb ``went on for three and a half to four hours.'' Said Rumsfeld: ``They were not cooking cookies inside those tunnels... You do not spend that kind of money and dig that far in and store that many weapons ... unless you have very serious purposes for doing it.'' He said the individuals in the vicinity ``clearly were connected to those activities.'' http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Attacks-Washington.html It was a tv reporters insertion that said Rumsfeld said the amunition may have caused destruction in the small commuity.

The media is running the risk of becoming a great propaganda machine. Someone should pull the plug.

YES, Moon! I will not watch some stations for that very reason. I am back to listening to NPR... Thank you for posting in the 666 position. Hardly demonic, I think!

Thank you for posting in the 666 position. Hardly demonic, I think! LOL! That's alright Marcia, in college my PO Box # was 0069. T'is true!

In college my phone number was extension 1234. When a guy asked for it, and I gave it to him, he often looked at me sideways and asked me to tell him if I was not interested in him. Numbers are curious things. In Hebrew characters, the characters can either be letters or numbers!

From Fox: Terrorists Failed in Their Ultimate Mission Wednesday, October 17, 2001 Glenn Harlan Reynolds Five weeks have passed since the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and from what we have learned in that time I think it's fair to pronounce the attacks a near-total failure. True, they caused unprecedented death and devastation. But the attacks were not, really, about death and devastation. They were about terror, which is why those who perpetrated them are called terrorists. The goal, as now seems clear, was to provoke a frightened and inflamed United States to lash out indiscriminately, create a split between the Islamic world and the West and to deliver some existing regimes ? chiefly in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Algeria ? into the hands of Islamic fundamentalists. At the same time, the U.S. would collapse under domestic fear and quickly sue for peace, abandoning Israel and offering a complete withdrawal of its influence from North Africa, the Middle East, and Central Asia as the price it would pay to prevent similar attacks from happening again. It seems pretty clear that this was the terrorists' plan, and when measured against these objectives, it is also clear that this plan failed. Understanding why the terrorists ultimately failed means understanding the true nature of the United States' core strength. The plot failed in part because of the immediate response by the government to quickly ground flights ? most likely preventing additional hijackings ? and by the passengers of United Airlines flight 93 who bravely overtook the hijackers and probably saved the Capitol and/or the White House from destruction. It failed more fundamentally because the U.S. did not react the way that Usama bin Laden's followers expected. Having apparently watched the Denzel Washington movie The Siege ? a film that depicted mass hysteria incited by Islamic terrorist attacks in New York ? one too many times, bin Laden's men overestimated the likelihood that the U.S. would panic and overreact. They also learned the wrong lesson from previous cases when a few casualties caused the U.S. to withdraw from foreign commitments; hitting Americans on American soil isn't the same thing. But most significantly, the terrorists misjudged the reaction of American women. In the past, American women have been far more reluctant to see the nation go to war than men. But this time, American women seem to be, if anything, more bellicose than the men. Part of this hawkish reaction by American women stems from the attack being on American soil, killing civilians, parents, children, and spouses. But part of it also stems from the fact that these attackers represent a culture that brutally oppresses women. When I remarked to a friend that my Web site was generating more bellicose e-mail on the war from women than from men, he compared their reaction to what could be the expected response of African Americans if the U.S. had gone to war against apartheid South Africa. I think he's onto something. Media targeted at women seem to be bearing this theory out: The most recent issue of the Star tabloid features a special 12-page section on the war emphasizing the role of women in combat from the Gulf War, to women serving today on aircraft carriers. There is a feature on the "defiantly lipstick-wearing" female anti-Taliban guerrillas in Afghanistan and a sidebar on 17-year-old British female sailor Jodie Jones of HMS Illustrious who declares, "I'm ready for action!" A profile of a female three-star general concludes, "as the nation launches an all-out counterattack on Usama bin Laden and his evil henchmen, we couldn't be in better hands." In America and Europe, the emotional and political tone is largely set by middle-class married women. These women ? who never much thought about the Taliban and Islamic regimes ? are thinking about them now, and they don't like them. American and European women are likely to be far more supportive of military action against the misogynist regimes of radical Islamic states than of other kinds of military action. They're also likely, even after the war, to keep pushing for female emancipation throughout the Islamic world. The liberation of Islamic women is the thing, I think, that bin Laden and his ilk fear the most. But as a majority of voters in the world's richest and most powerful countries, American and European women are likely to eventually get what they want. It may take a couple of decades, but a direct consequence of the Sept. 11 atrocities may be the liberation of women throughout the Islamic world. For bin Laden, the Taliban and their supporters and followers, that would be a failure. A colossal failure.

American and European women are likely to be far more supportive of military action against the misogynist regimes of radical Islamic states than of other kinds of military action. Hell hath no fury like women seeking to liberate other women forced to wear ugly fashions. ;-)

YES!!! Karen! Right on. Gazooks what they have conceived for us to wear... we must be roundly hated by the male fasion pundits. arrgh!

Not to mention those spooky garment which hide women of certain faiths. Their men must be very insecure!

A Boston trauma expert arrived in NYC shortly after September 11th. At the conclusion of his visit, he observed "starting around the Thanksgiving holiday and through the New Year, a major mental health crisis will emerge in the city and surrounding area." Indeed, doctors and mental health experts are already observing the psychological fallout from the disaster rippling out from ground zero. Those at highest risk were personally exposed to the events, especially those threatened with injury or death. The second ripple includes those who lost friends, loved ones, or coworkers and those involved in recovery work. For the rest of us who spent days glued to our TV sets as the horror unfolded, even this exposure can trigger disabling symptoms, particularly in those with preexisting problems with anxiety, depression, or posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). With these encouraging words: "Most people will recover as long as we maximize the normal recovery process," another expert encouraged everyone experiencing i trusive mental or physical anguish from the attack to seek help. For more information, check out http://www.psych.org and click on "Coping With a National Tragedy." from www.femailhealthnews.com

One of my coworkers suggested we train women in combat and send them in dressed in traditional women's garb with veils and all, they could move in to areas our troops couldn't reach easily and they could pack quite a bit of concealed ammo and weapons under all that clothing.

Hmmmm!!! That sound better than the email making the rounds suggesting every plane take off with a baby pig aboard. If a Muslim is buried with swine ("unclean") they believe they are doomed to Hell. Then, do the suggested air drops of 100,000 swine into Afghanistan... Perhaps there is merit to this after all.

What's up with this? October 20, 2001 THE AMBASSADOR Don't Doubt Steadfastness of Taliban, Envoy Insists By JOHN F. BURNS http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/20/international/asia/20STAN.html?todaysheadlines "He was asked how it was that Mullah Omar had declared a "holy war" against the United States � and had said it was the duty of all Muslims to rally to the Taliban's side � but that not a single government among the 56 Muslim nations had rallied to the Taliban's cause. "Inshallah," or God willing, he said, "there will be a lot of Muslims joining us." And if not, he added, it is hardly the Taliban's part to persuade them. "All of our actions are according to the Shariah law," he said, invoking the Islamic legal code. "We do not argue with people, and we do not reason with them." But the most evocative response came with a resounding laugh from the mullah and a kind of thigh-slapping comicality from his interpreter, a huge man with an eyepatch. Toward the end of the 40-minute audience, he was asked if the anthrax attacks in the United States had been masterminded by Mr. bin Laden. "Anthrax?" he said, and then paused as if for theatrical effect. "We don't know about this. We don't know what it is." Across the garden, many of the 150 reporters from across the world joined in the burst of laughter, drowning out the birds chirping at the approach of dusk."

Do you detect more than a little sadism in this press conference? We are permitting our thoughts to be diverted by press giving space and credibility to such rantings? Pathetic!

Greek Americans join relief effort Greek Orthodox Church also helps open funds in support of victims of September 11 terrorist attacks on USA With thousands of innocent civilians having perished in the September 11 terrorist attacks in the United States, and many remaining homeless and jobless since the collapse of the World Trade Center, the Greek-American community and the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese are joining nationwide relief efforts. The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America has asked that all parishes conduct a memorial service tomorrow to commemorate the 40 days that have passed since thousands of people were killed that Tuesday morning. "On this solemn occasion let each and every one of us light a special candle for the September 11 victims, the proceeds of which should be sent to the Sept. 11 Relief Fund of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America," an encyclical instructed. The relief fund and the Sept. 11 Relief Center at the St. Barbara Greek Orthodox Church, located close to the disaster site in New York City, were founded by the Archdiocese. Contributions to the fund presently total $1.2 million and have been generated by organizations, individuals and parishes from across the country and around the world. Moreover, the newly established Department of Philanthropy of the Archdiocese, headed by Archimandrite Antonios Paropoulos, is also expected to play an important role in relief efforts. Both the Greek Orthodox Church and the Greek-American community suffered losses that Tuesday morning last month, as several Americans of Greek descent died while at work in the Twin Towers and St. Nicholas Church was crushed under the falling debris. The Archdiocese announced that the church will be rebuilt once rescue workers have completed their work and construction crews have cleared the debris from the area. In a gesture of support and concern over the destruction of St. Nicholas Church, Martin Kaplan, chairman of the American-Jewish Committee (AJC), this week donated $10,000 of AJC funds to the Archdiocese for the church's reconstruction. "This gesture is a treasure, a movement of the heart," Archbishop Demetrios of America said after the meeting. In addition to the relief efforts of the Archdiocese, there is a similar campaign by the Greek-American community organized by the American Hellenic Educational Progressive Association (AHEPA). AHEPA Supreme President Andrew T. Banis announced recently that the association was launching an international fund-raising drive to raise $100,000 for disaster relief needed as a result of last month's terrorist attacks. This announcement builds upon a previous call directed to its chapters and members to provide disaster relief by organizing blood drives and donating blood. "As our nation prepares for a sustained campaign against terrorism the Greek-American community must stand side-by-side with this effort, offering our resources for the protection of democracy, freedom, and humanity," Banis said. "Therefore, I am calling on the AHEPA family to focus all its energy in this effort to raise a minimal amount of $100,000 by November 1." According to Banis, once the fund-raising goal is achieved, the funds will be allocated to one or more of the charitable organizations assisting with disaster relief, including the American Red Cross, Salvation Army, and the Firefighter's Fund. The $100,000 raised will be in addition to the financial contribution provided by AHEPA to the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund. Established in 1922, AHEPA is the largest Greek-American association in the world with its own chapters in the USA, Canada and Greece, as well as sister chapters in Australia. MIRON VAROUHAKIS More... http://www.ekathimerini.com/news/content.asp?aid=104435

(Karen)Hell hath no fury like women seeking to liberate other women forced to wear ugly fashions. ;-) ****** ROTFL

David Kline (who has his own topic in the news conference): We'll get to a real war footing, eventually, but pyschologically right now I think folks are still hopinmg against hope that it'll somehow turn out to be a movie-of-the-week sort of war. A temporary disruption, that's all. But soon enough, I'm afraid, casualties won't make the news unless they're double or triple digit. And the American people will be expected -- indeed, *required* to make and accept daily sacrifices as normal. War lite. Perfect.

It's those darn liberals again ;-)B http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/10/21/stiusausa02030.html October 21 2001 TERRORISM ULTRA ZEALOTS: If you think Bin Laden is extreme - some Muslims want to kill him because he's soft IF YOU thought Osama Bin Laden's brand of Islamic fundamentalism was as extreme as it gets, think again. A rival group of Muslim terrorists exists which regards him as an infidel who has sold out. Bin Laden's declaration of war against the West has failed to impress Takfir wal-Hijra, an ultra-hardcore group that has won a reputation for unbridled savagery in Egypt and Sudan. Hamza: even he's shocked Its fundamentalism is so extreme that members have embarked on killing sprees in mosques against fellow Muslims in the belief that a pure Islamic state can be built only if the corrupt elements of the last one are wiped out. In this they see Bin Laden and his followers as pragmatists who are "excessively liberal". To drive the point home, four of its members pulled up in a pick-up truck outside his house in Sudan in 1995, spraying it with bullets in an effort to kill him . . . "They are nothing but a bunch of extremists," said Abu Hamza, the claw-handed radical preacher at Finsbury Park mosque in north London, who outraged public opinion in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center by describing them as an act of "self-defence".

"The world's most wanted terrorist suffered a setback as first word of a fatality among the top ranks of his Al-Qaeda network was reported on Thursday by a London-based Islamic group. ...The Islamic Observation Center said in an e-mailed statement to The Associated Press that an Egyptian militant, identified by his nom de guerre Abu Baseer al-Masri, was killed by a bomb on Sunday near Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan." Source: http://www.ecola.com/go/?f=&r=as&u=www.hindustantimes.com

Reacting to the news of Abdul Haq's execution today by the Taliban: Oh man, this is a real tragedy -- on the scale of Massoud's death. He was Pashtun, one of the few with enough credibility and respect to be able to potentially rally fellow tribesmen away from the Taliban. And he was quite simply a great guy. Educated, funny, always playing practical jokes, a lover of poetry and music, and incredibly brave. He lost a foot to a land mine and thereafter hopped (literally) into battle. He was also kind. Western reporters who travelled with him and his fighters always had the feeling that Abdul Haq was looking after them, personally. Very solicitous of other's needs; very respectful of women. Abdul Haq was no toady of the U.S., either. He could be very critical of imperial behavior by the U.S., and indeed criticized the current bombing effort as potentially galvanizing of Taliban resistance. I could tell you stories about him. One time he flirted with my girlfriend just to see my reaction (wink wink, nod nod, then he burst out laughing at my obvious discomfort). And he loved to trade good natured insults -- "You feeble Americans, even our women walk faster than you ... "Yeah, no shit Abdul, with guys like you after them, no wonder!" I don't know what else to say. Maybe it's not true. But it probably is. - David Kline

More on the bin Laden death story: http://www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/interrogatory102501b.shtml

More from a shocked and dismayed David Kline: I really am finding this hard to believe: the two greatest living Afghans, Massoud and Abdul Haq, both murdered in less than two months by the Taliban. And it's difficult to explain how much these men symbolized hope for Afghanistan, even in their personal manner. Massoud spoke French, loved literature and led his men quietly, almost shyly. Abdul Haq was a poet with the charisma of a warrior, a big (teddy) bear of a man who laughed easily. They were cosmopolitan, sophisticated about the ways of both the West & the East -- not at all the sort of "warlord" the media is so fond of presenting these days. It has become easy, of course, to shake our heads and tsk tsk the Afghans for all the ways that they are screwed up. But you could never think such things in the presence of Massoud or Abdul Haq. They were truly *impressive.* And their vision was wider and deeper than you might expect of people who had lived in caves and mountain redoubts for so long. Each imagined a liberated Afghanistan with schools for all, electricity for all, a new class of women doctors trained to give medical care to all, and economic development schemes that were rather well thought out. But mostly, they imagined peace. Just peace. For a people who hadn't had it in 25 years. I just spoke to the woman who was my girlfriend then (she did refugee work along the Afghan border at the time) and she reminded me that our first date was very traditional -- "dinner and a movie" -- except for the fact that it was at Abdul Haq's house. The dinner he cooked himself (no lie), and the movie was (of course) video of anti-Soviet fighting. We played cards (Poker and Fish), told jokes, arm wrestled, and recited poetry to each other. It was from Abdul, in fact, that I first learned to recite the traditional Pasthun landay (rhyming couplet) that goes like this: Your face is a rose, your eyes candles Faith, I am lost! Should I become a butterfly or a moth? Now he's gone. They're all gone, really -- the only ones who could deliver the Afghans from their present misery. Who else has anywhere near the stature these men had? Ismael Khan maybe, but he's probably too regional. Anyway, I keep holding the thought that societies usually end up producing exactly the leaders they need. So maybe there are others, unknown as yet, who will one day take the place of Massoud and Abdul Haq. Wow, I thought I was soooo cool about Afghanistan. I'd seen a lot of shit there, stuff that I didn't at the time think I was strong enough to see. I thought nothing about that country could shake me up anymore. But here I am, simply stunned. I have a hard time believing it's real.

We all have a hard time believing it is real. Until the stuff starts hitting your neighbors or in your yard, it is somehow remote. In Hawaii, it seems like another planet. But, then, so does all of the rest of the world. War lite. Too bad they aren't all like that...

That was very, very tough news for David, who knew these guys intimately from his years as a war correspondent in Afghanistan. He has been very obviously shaken by the death of these two leaders who were so critical to Afghanistans future. I can feel his despair and pain. An excerpt from an ABCnews.com report today gives the Afghanis a glimmer of hope for a peaceful future: D U S H A N B E, Tajikistan, Oct. 25 � Like so many children in Afghanistan, 13-year-old Ahmed Massoud lost his father in the fighting that has engulfed the country for more than 20 years. But Ahmed's loss was also a loss for the country. His father, Ahmed Shah Massoud, was a brilliant military leader who helped the Afghans throw out the Soviet invaders in the 1980s. For the last few years, he had led the Northern Alliance's military efforts against the repressive Taliban who control most of Afghanistan. Then � two days before the attacks on New York and Washington � Massoud was assassinated by suicide bombers posing as a television news crew. Northern Alliance officials believe the assassins were sent by Osama bin Laden to eliminate the Taliban's most formidable enemy. Although Massoud led a life of war, he was grooming his son to lead the Afghan people on a path he hoped would lead to peace. "My father never talked to me about war," Ahmed told me shortly before his father's memorial service. "He did not want me to follow a military education. He said that the world would be peaceful when I grow up, so I have to be ready for this peaceful world." Ahmed lives with his mother and four sisters in Tajikistan, safely away from the fighting in northern Afghanistan's Panjshir Valley. He is barely a teenager, but members of his father's anti-Taliban forces already treat him with incredible deference and respect. He is very quiet, but carries himself with the self-assurance of a grown man. When he met with us, he strode across the room to shake our hands, then calmly took his seat for the interview. His movements and his bearing are exactly like his father's. Meeting a Warrior I met Ahmed Shah Massoud a year ago when I traveled to northern Afghanistan, where he was nearly surrounded by the Taliban and fighting desperately to keep his supply lines open for the winter. To reach him in his mountainous headquarters, we first flew in an ancient Russian helicopter over the 18,000-foot peaks of the Hindu Kush range. We continued by pick-up truck over rough dirt roads, then crossed a river Afghan-style: on a raft of cow hides sewn together and inflated. The technique worked for the army of Alexander the Great, and it worked for us. It was hard to believe that these were the same people who had defeated the mighty Soviet military, but they were. Many believe it was because Massoud was a brilliant strategist whose guerilla tactics bled the Soviets for 10 years until they finally gave up and left. Massoud's battlefield success is legendary � and not lost on the Taliban commanders. Although no evidence has emerged of Taliban involvement in his assassination, many suspect they knew that to control all of Afghanistan they needed to take him out. more at http://abcnews.go.com/sections/primetime/DailyNews/junger_feature.html

*I've thought of worse suggestions...* This was forwarded to me by several people. A little ancient female wisdom in an otherwise-bleak situation... Take all American women who are within five years of menopause -- train us for a few weeks, outfit us with automatic weapons, grenades, gas masks, moisturizer with SPF15, Prozac, hormones, chocolate, and canned tuna -- drop us (parachuted, preferably) across the landscape of Afghanistan, and let us do what comes naturally. Think about it. Our anger quotient alone, even when doing standard stuff like grocery shopping and paying bills, is formidable enough to make even armed men in turbans tremble. We've had our children, we would gladly suffer or die to protect them and their future. We'd like to get away from our husbands, if they haven't left already. And for those of us who are single, the prospect of finding a good man with whom to share life is about as likely as being struck by lightning. We have nothing to lose. We've survived the water diet, the protein diet, the carbohydrate diet, and the grapefruit diet in gyms and saunas across America and never lost a pound. We can easily survive months in the hostile terrain of Afghanistan with no food at all! We've spent years tracking down our husbands or lovers in bars, hardware stores, or sporting events...finding bin Laden in some cave will be no problem. Uniting all the warring tribes of Afghanistan in a new government? Oh, please ... we've planned the seating arrangements for in-laws and extended families at Thanksgiving dinners for years ... we understand tribal warfare. Between us, we've divorced enough husbands to know every trick there is for how they hide, launder, or cover up bank accounts and money sources. We know how to find that money and we know how to seize it ... with or without the government's help! Let us go and fight. The Taliban hates women. Imagine their terror as we crawl like ants with hot-flashes over their godforsaken terrain. I'm going to write my Congresswoman. You should, too!

An amazing story. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56956-2001Oct26.html You watching TV?" Rick Rescorla was calling from the 44th floor of the World Trade Center, icy calm in the crisis. When Rescorla was a platoon leader in Vietnam, his men called him Hard Core, because they had never seen anyone so absurdly unflappable in the face of death. Now he was vice president for corporate security at Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co., and a jumbo jet had just plowed into the north tower. The voices of officialdom were crackling over the loudspeakers in the south tower, urging everyone to stay put: Please do not leave the building. This area is secure. Rescorla was ignoring them. "The dumb sons of bitches told me not to evacuate," he said during a quick call to his best friend, Dan Hill, who had indeed been watching the disaster unfolding on TV. "They said it's just Building One. I told them I'm getting my people the [expletive] out of here." Keep moving, Rescorla commanded over his megaphone while Hill listened. Keep moving. "Typical Rescorla," Hill recalls. "Incredible under fire." Morgan Stanley lost only six of its 2,700 employees in the south tower on Sept. 11, an isolated miracle amid the carnage. And company officials say Rescorla deserves most of the credit. He drew up the evacuation plan. He hustled his colleagues to safety. And then he apparently went back into the inferno to search for stragglers. He was the last man out of the south tower after the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, and no one seems to doubt that he would've been again last month if the skyscraper hadn't collapsed on him first. One of the company's secretaries actually snapped a photo of Rescorla with his megaphone that day, a 62-year-old mountain of a man coolly sacrificing his life for others. It was an epic death, one of those inspirational hero-tales that have sprouted like wildflowers from the Twin Towers rubble. But it turns out that retired Army Col. Cyril Richard Rescorla led an epic life as well. In this time when heroes are being proclaimed all around, when brave actions are understandably hailed as proofs of character, here was a man whose heroism was a matter of public record long before Sept. 11.

The New Yorker Magazine has put together a collection of links to all of the magazine's coverage of the attacks and the aftermath plus older relevant articles: http://www.newyorker.com/FROM_THE_ARCHIVE/PREVIOUS/

Thanks Terry... I have chills just reading this account of Col. Rescorla. He personifies Hero in my book! There were many heroes that day...

This is a something my son found and made me LOL! Enjoy this treat. http://www.madblast.com/binladen.htm

October 29, 2001 U.S. 'guard down' due to anthrax attacks By Daniel F. Drummond THE WASHINGTON TIMES Terrorist groups are using anthrax attacks as a diversion and taking advantage of an overburdened law-enforcement system to plan more attacks on America, federal law-enforcement and intelligence sources say. The sources, all of whom are either working on or have close knowledge of the investigations of both the anthrax and Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, said that regardless of whether Osama bin Laden or the al Qaeda terrorist network are behind the anthrax attacks, they are taking advantage of the FBI and other law-enforcement agencies' dedication to solving and dealing with the anthrax attacks as well as hoaxes and scares. "Our guard is down now because we are looking at mail," one intelligence source said. Indeed, FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III told a group of the country's mayors that more than 7,000 of its 11,000 agents and support personnel are working on investigations relating to the Sept. 11 and anthrax attacks. "There is just too much going on," an FBI source said, adding that agents are working on the investigations almost simultaneously by asking about both the anthrax and Sept. 11 attacks with those they question. "We still have to deal with the hoaxes." More at: http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20011029-26230978.htm

I love the way the media is working with the enemy in their effort to "keep us informed." I think, in the interests of America, they should to be a lot less headline grabbing. This is so tiresome, I have ceased to watch the news!!!

Ashcroft has given out a "terrorist warning advisory" to state, national and local agencies (see NYTimes) today. What's also tiresome is how little informed we are of the details of stories like this. Why? Why now? I've been thinking about the possibility of some sort of threat during Halloween. This is an awful thought...the worst of the worst-- but what about the possibility of our children being harmed? But why hasn't the media discussed any precautions parents might take (candy, trick-or-treating, etc)? I hate to give into paranoia... but I'm handing out stickers this year.

here in the NY metro area, that is all that seemingly has been on the news- what to check for in candy, areas that should be avoided, etc. I think that it should be put on the national news... If I had kids, I'd be wary of having them go out at all, unless I were with them, and even then, I wouldn't be very comfortable. also heard that all proceeds from this year's UNICEF (those little boxes that kids have in their trick-or-treat bags to collect $), will go to the Afghan children... apparently this is unprecedented in that never has the entire collection gone to one single cause.

What's also tiresome is how little informed we are of the details of stories like this. I agree. It is not enought to warn us. They must give us whatever details they have.

They're probably not giving out too many details because it would tip off the terrorists that we know how to tap in to their communication channels. They're going to be offering "candy" in the form of false threats to see if we can intercept their messages over wire, the net, etc.

They're not giving us details because they don't have them. What sparked this latest alert is an increase in the amount of "noise" among the terrorists communications networks, similar to what was observed immediately prior to September 11. The government is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't. IMO, they issue these warnings to us because, with law enforcement departments throughout the country being placed on high alert, word is bound to get out that something is afoot. If they don't issue a warning--albeit a general one--people would complain that they're covering up the info. So they issue the alert to the public, and the public complains it's not enough info. Believe me, I'm as frustrated as anyone, but the government has an incredibly difficult situation they're trying to deal with, and so I think we need to have a bit more patience and understanding and not be so quick to second guess.

Mari, I absolutely agree with you! I'd rather evacuate from 1,000 tsunami warnings than be drowned by one which was not issued to spare us the trauma. This goes for what we face now. Be safe and keep on doing what you were meant to do. Live your lives as best you can. Attend games and parties. If we don't we will die inside and they will have provided the means for this death. I am not willing to give up so easily! My son was just married. I am looking forward to the possibility of another little generation of people to inhabit a most wonderous world.

Interesting piece from the New York Times: October 26, 2001 We Are All Alone By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN Let me see if I've got this all straight now: Pakistan will allow us to use its bases Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays; provided we bomb only Taliban whose names begin with Omar and who don't have cousins in the Pakistani secret service. India is with us on Tuesdays and Fridays, provided it can shell Pakistani forces around Kashmir all other days. Egypt is with us on Sundays, provided we don't tell anyone and provided we never mention that we give the Egyptians $2 billion a year in aid. Yasir Arafat is with us only after 10 p.m. on weekdays, when Palestinians who have been dancing in the streets over the World Trade Center attack have gone to bed. The Northern Alliance is with us, provided we buy all its troops new sandals and give U.S. passports to the first 1,000 to reach Kabul. Israel is with us provided we never question the lunacy of 7,000 Israeli colonial settlers living in the middle of a million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. Kuwait would like to be with us, it really would, since we saved Kuwait from Iraq, but two Islamists in the Kuwaiti Parliament spoke out against the war, so the emir just doesn't want to take any chances. You understand. The Saudis, of course, want to be with us, but Saudis are not into war-fighting. That's for the household help. Don't worry. Prince Alwaleed has promised to rent us some Bangladeshi soldiers through a Saudi temp agency — at only a small markup. The Saudi ruling family would love to cooperate by handing over its police files on the 15 Saudis involved in the hijackings, but that would be a violation of its sovereignty, and, well, you know how much the Saudis respect sovereignty; like when the Saudi Embassy in Washington rushed all of Osama bin Laden's relatives out of America after Sept. 11 on a private Saudi jet, before they could be properly questioned by the F.B.I. And then there's my personal favorite: All our Arab-Muslim allies would love us to get bin Laden quickly, but the Muslim holy month of Ramadan is coming soon and the Muslim "street" will not tolerate fighting during Ramadan. Say, do you remember the 1973 Middle East war, launched by Egypt and Syria against Israel? Remember what that war was called in the Arab world? "The Ramadan war"; because that's when it was started. Oh, well. I guess the Arab world can launch wars on Ramadan, but not receive them. My fellow Americans, I hate to say this, but except for the good old Brits, we're all alone. And at the end of the day, it's U.S. and British troops who will have to go in, on the ground, and eliminate bin Laden. Ah, you ask, but why did we have so many allies in the gulf war against Iraq? Because the Saudis and Kuwaitis bought that alliance. They bought the Syrian Army with billions of dollars for Damascus. They bought us and the Europeans with promises of huge reconstruction contracts and by covering all our costs. Indeed, with the money Japan paid, we actually made a profit on the gulf war; Coalitions "R" Us. This time we'll have to pay our own way, and for others. Unfortunately, killing 5,000 innocent Americans in New York just doesn't get the rest of the world that exercised. In part we're to blame. The unilateralist message the Bush team sent from its first day in office: get rid of the Kyoto climate treaty, forget the biological treaty, forget arms control, and if the world doesn't like it that's tough; has now come back to haunt us. And who can blame other countries for wanting to shake down U.S. taxpayers when Dick Armey and his greedy band of House Republicans are doing the same thing; pushing a stimulus bill with more tax breaks for the rich, lobbyists and corporations, and virtually nothing for the working Americans who will fight this war? My advice: Try not to focus on any of this. Focus instead on the firemen who rushed into the trade center towers without asking, "How much?" Focus on the thousands of U.S. reservists who have left their jobs and families to go fight in Afghanistan without asking, "What's in it for me?" Unlike the free-riders in our coalition, these young Americans know that Sept. 11 is our holy day; the first day in a just war to preserve our free, multi-religious, democratic society. And I don't really care if that war coincides with Ramadan, Christmas, Hanukkah or the Buddha's birthday; the most respectful and spiritual thing we can do now is fight it until justice is done.

The Italians have also committed to send troups. It was reported on Italian Rai TV news that 10 American soldiers have been captured in A. Has it been reported here? Also in Italy, a Muslim has been found living in a metal container with computer and maps of all Italian airports and Canadian airports. He is in custody and the FBI is on its way.

Nothing on the capture on ABC or CNN's websites. And nothing about the Muslim living in the dumpster.

White House says capture story is completely false.

And more comments from David Kline: Wow, today's NY Times also has an excellent piece on "Afghan Art Dispersed by the Winds of War." http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/01/arts/design/01PILL.html I may have mentioned before how wonderful and unique Afghan art is, and how proud Afghans have always been of it (a further indication that the Taliban are completely alien to traditional Afghan culture and tradition). Anyway, my movie script -- a love story set against the Afghan war -- also centers around a plot to steal precious Afghan art. I sold the script 10 years ago (to Tom Selleck of all people), but when the Gulf War broke out he decided not to make the movie. So the rights reverted back to me. I'm thinking about resurrecting this script and trying again -- one thing's for sure, I'd be the first up to the plate with an Afghan script. Anyone know any agents or producers to steer me to?

The atrocities inflicted on the antiquites of Afghanistan were reported in Geo - archeologist world-wide are outraged. Little did they know that these people are willing to kill of the whole specied to their eternal glory.

Twenty-six-year-old Palestinian-American poet and political activist Suheir Hammad has published a book of poems, BORN PALESTINIAN, BORN BLACK, and a memoir, DROPS OF THIS STORY, and is prominently featured in LISTEN UP! AN ANTHOLOGY OF SPOKEN WORK POETRY. Recipient of the Audre Lourde Writing Award from Hunter College, the Morris Center for Healing Poetry Award, and a New York Mills Artist Residency in Minnesota, Hammad is a frequent reader at New York reading venues, including numerous radio appearances, and has performed with The All That Band and Rhythms of Aqua. She has produced a documentary film, HALF A LIFETIME, and is writing a film entitled FROM BEIRUT TO BROOKLYN, based on her memoir. Naomi Shihab Nye has called Hammad's work "a brave flag over the dispossessed." First Writing Since 1. there have been no words. i have not written one word. no poetry in the ashes south of canal street. no prose in the refrigerated trucks driving debris and dna. not one word. today is a week, and seven is of heavens, gods, science. evident out my kitchen window is an abstract reality. sky where once was steel. smoke where once was flesh. fire in the city air and i feared for my sister's life in a way never before. and then, and now, i fear for the rest of us. first, please god, let it be a mistake, the pilot's heart failed, the plane's engine died. then please god, let it be a nightmare, wake me now. please god, after the second plane, please, don't let it be anyone who looks like my brothers. i do not know how bad a life has to break in order to kill. i have never been so hungry that i willed hunger i have never been so angry as to want to control a gun over a pen. not really. even as a woman, as a palestinian, as a broken human being. never this broken. more than ever, i believe there is no difference. the most privileged nation, most americans do not know the difference between indians, afghanis, syrians, muslims, sikhs, hindus. more than ever, there is no difference. 2. thank you korea for kimchi and bibim bob, and corn tea and the genteel smiles of the wait staff at wonjo the smiles never revealing the heat of the food or how tired they must be working long midtown shifts. thank you korea, for the belly craving that brought me into the city late the night before and diverted my daily train ride into the world trade center. there are plenty of thank yous in ny right now. thank you for my lazy procrastinating late ass. thank you to the germs that had me call in sick. thank you, my attitude, you had me fired the week before. thank you for the train that never came, the rude nyer who stole my cab going downtown. thank you for the sense my mama gave me to run. thank you for my legs, my eyes, my life. 3. the dead are called lost and their families hold up shaky printouts in front of us through screens smoked up. we are looking for iris, mother of three. please call with any information. we are searching for priti, last seen on the 103rd floor. she was talking to her husband on the phone and the line went. please help us find george, also known as adel. his family is waiting for him with his favorite meal. i am looking for my son, who was delivering coffee. i am looking for my sister girl, she started her job on monday. i am looking for peace. i am looking for mercy. i am looking for evidence of compassion. any evidence of life. i am looking for life. 4. ricardo on the radio said in his accent thick as yuca, "i will feel so much better when the first bombs drop over there. and my friends feel the same way." on my block, a woman was crying in a car parked and stranded in hurt. i offered comfort, extended a hand she did not see before she said, "we're gonna burn them so bad, i swear, so bad." my hand went to my head and my head went to the numbers within it of the dead iraqi children, the dead in nicaragua. the dead in rwanda who had to vie with fake sport wrestling for america's attention. yet when people sent emails saying, this was bound to happen, lets not forget u.s. transgressions, for half a second i felt resentful. hold up with that, cause i live here, these are my friends and fam, and it could have been me in those buildings, and we're not bad people, do not support america's bullying. can i just have a half second to feel bad? if i can find through this exhaust people who were left behind to mourn and to resist mass murder, i might be alright. thank you to the woman who saw me brinking my cool and blinking back tears. she opened her arms before she asked "do you want a hug?" a big white woman, and her embrace was the kind only people with the warmth of flesh can offer. i wasn't about to say no to any comfort. "my brother's in the navy," i said. "and we"re arabs.""wow, you got double trouble." word. 5. one more person ask me if i knew the hijackers. one more motherfucker ask me what navy my brother is in. one more person assume no arabs or muslims were killed. one more person assume they know me, or that i represent a people. or that a people represent an evil. or that evil is as simple as a flag and words on a page. we did not vilify all white men when mcveigh bombed oklahoma. america did not give out his family's addresses or where he went to church. or blame the bible or pat robertson. and when the networks air footage of palestinians dancing in the street, there is no apology that hungry children are bribed with sweets that turn their teeth brown. that correspondents edit images. that archives are there to facilitate lazy and inaccurate journalism. and when we talk about holy books and hooded men and death, why do we never mention the kkk? if there are any people on earth who understand how new york is feeling right now, they are in the west bank and the gaza strip. 6. today it is ten days. last night bush waged war on a man once openly funded by the cia. i do not know who is responsible. read too many books, know too many people to believe what i am told. i don't give a fuck about bin laden. his vision of the world does not include me or those i love. and petitions have been going around for years trying to get the u.s. sponsored taliban out of power. shit is complicated, and i don't know what to think. but i know for sure who will pay. in the world, it will be women, mostly colored and poor. women will have to bury children, and support themselves through grief. "either you are with us, or with the terrorists" - meaning keep your people under control and your resistance censored. meaning we got the loot and the nukes. in america, it will be those amongst us who refuse blanket attacks on the shivering. those of us who work toward social justice, in support of civil liberties, in opposition to hateful foreign policies. i have never felt less american and more new yorker, particularly brooklyn, than these past days. the stars and stripes on all these cars and apartment windows represent the dead as citizens first, not family members, not lovers. i feel like my skin is real thin, and that my eyes are only going to get darker. the future holds little light. my baby brother is a man now, and on alert, and praying five times a day that the orders he will take in a few days time are righteous and will not weigh his soul down from the afterlife he deserves. both my brothers - my heart stops when i try to pray - not a beat to disturb my fear. one a rock god, the other a sergeant, and both palestinian, practicing muslim, gentle men. both born in brooklyn and their faces are of the archetypal arab man, all eyelashes and nose and beautiful color and stubborn hair. what will their lives be like now? over there is over here. 7. all day, across the river, the smell of burning rubber and limbs floats through. the sirens have stopped now. the advertisers are back on the air. the rescue workers are traumatized. the skyline is brought back to human size. no longer taunting the gods with its height. i have not cried at all while writing this. i cried when i saw those buildings collapse on themselves like a broken heart. i have never owned pain that needs to spread like that. and i cry daily that my brothers return to our mother safe and whole. there is no poetry in this. there are causes and effects. there are symbols and ideologies. mad conspiracy here, and information we will never know. there is death here, and there are promises of more. there is life here. anyone reading this is breathing, maybe hurting, but breathing for sure. and if there is any light to come, it will shine from the eyes of those who look for peace and justice after the rubble and rhetoric are cleared and the phoenix has risen. affirm life. affirm life. we got to carry each other now. you are either with life, or against it. affirm life. �suheir hammad http://www.smith.edu/poetrycenter/poems_all.php http://www.turath.org/Articles/Suheir.htm

I have known a young geology student in Islamabad for several years. My heart aches for him now. He worries about me. I am far from harm's way, and he is just starting out on life and the study of how precious and special this planet really is. This is incredibly sad, especially when it beomes highly personal.

A friend, Koti, sent me this today. From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Nov 6 21:26:30 2001 Date: 06 Nov 2001 21:26:30 -0600 From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA X-IMAP: 1005103590 0000000000 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From terry@www.spring.net Tue Nov 6 17:12:54 2001 -0600 Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: Return-Path: Received: from localhost (koti@localhost) by www.spring.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id fA6NCpA52010; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:12:51 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from koti@spring.net) Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:12:50 -0600 (CST) From: Koti Nandipati To: gdegamo@lucent.com cc: wayne.branagh@motorola.com, terry@spring.net Subject: Hijackers' Meticulous Strategy of Brains, Muscle and Practice (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NY Times article detailing the sept 11th event execution...--koti Hijackers' Meticulous Strategy of Brains, Muscle and Practice November 4, 2001 By DON VAN NATTA Jr. and KATE ZERNIKE American Airlines Flight 11 was in line for takeoff from Logan International Airport, the passengers already reminded to turn off personal electronic devices, when Mohamed Atta, in seat 8D in business class, dialed his cellphone for the last time. The call rang aboard another sparsely occupied jetliner a bit farther back on the same tarmac, on a cellphone belonging to Marwan al- Shehhi, in seat 6C on United Airlines Flight 175. The conversation between the two men, so close that they called each other cousin, lasted less than one minute - just long enough, investigators say, to signal that the plot was on. That simple communication was the culmination of months of meticulous planning and coordination that by 10 o'clock on the morning of Sept. 11 would become the worst terrorist attack in history. With all the suspects dead and no conclusive evidence, as yet, of any accomplices, investigators have been left to recreate the architecture and orchestration of the plot largely from the recorded minutiae of the hijackers' brief American lives: their cellphone calls, credit card charges, Internet communications and automated teller machine withdrawals. What has emerged, nearly two months into the investigation, is a picture in which the roles of the 19 hijackers are so well defined as to be almost corporate in their organization and coordination. Investigators now divide the 19 into three distinct groups: Mr. Atta, considered the mastermind, and three other leaders who chose the dates for the attack and flew the planes; a support staff of three who helped with the logistics of renting apartments, securing driver's licenses and distributing cash to the teams that would take the four planes; and beneath them, 12 soldiers, or "muscle," whose main responsibility seems to have been restraining the flight attendants and passengers while the leaders took over the jets' controls. The leaders had researched their plans so well that they knew just when each of the four cross-country flights would reach its cruising altitude - the moment, investigators say, when the hijackers stormed the cockpits to confront the pilots with box cutters. The coordination was so thorough that each of the four hijacking teams had its own bank account, and each team's A.T.M. cards used a single PIN. The slightest misstep could trigger intense frustration: more than once last summer in Florida, when money transfers from abroad had not arrived on the expected dates, security cameras captured several hijackers glaring impatiently into A.T.M. screens. The hijackers made a true technophile's use of the Internet, online chat rooms and e-mail. But when it came to their most crucial communications, they did what Al Qaeda's manual on terrorist operations instructs: they met in person. They chose as their meeting place the same locale where generations of American conventioneers have met to exchange information about their crafts: Las Vegas, where investigators say the most crucial planning in the United States occurred. But unlike traditional conventioneers who cluster in casino hotels that replicate the Pyramids or the New York City skyline, the leaders and their logistics men stayed at the seediest end of the famous Las Vegas Strip, next to the "Home of the $5 Lap Dance," at a cheap motel guaranteed not to have surveillance cameras. They stayed briefly, only as long as it took to exchange important information, and apparently did not visit the casinos or any of the other purveyors of easy vice in America's City of Sin. Most of the 19 hijackers, perhaps all of them, spent time in Osama bin Laden's Afghan training camps, investigators now say. Some of the Sept. 11 soldiers appear to have met there. And like Mr. Atta and the other pilots, the muscle did not seem to fit the profile of suicide bombers as desperate and impoverished young men. With the exception of one, they were all Saudis, relatively well off and well educated. While the leaders seemed to be Islamic zealots, the muscle did not, indulging often in pornography and liquor. There is still much that investigators do not know. While they contend, for instance, that the plot cost nearly $500,000, they have been able to trace only half of it back to a suspected Al Qaeda source. They know where the leaders met, but not what information they exchanged - among hundreds of e-mail messages seized from computers in Florida and Las Vegas, there is no "smoking gun" or reference to the Sept. 11 attacks, a senior investigator said. The investigators say they are unsure how the soldiers were recruited. And they do not know how those men thought the story was going to end - if they were aware that they had signed on to die. "This went totally by the book," one senior government official said. "It has all the earmarks of Al Qaeda. It was well organized, far from a half-baked operation. They had good coordination, excellent communication that is hard to track, and a good, simple plan. Somebody did their homework." Following the Manual Investigators say their best theory is that Sept. 11 was a franchise operation, and that the leaders hewed closely to the dictates of Al Qaeda's terror manual. The plot was first pieced together, they say, at least two years ago, in Hamburg, Germany, where three of the men who would later be leaders and pilots - Mr. Atta, Mr. Shehhi and Ziad Jarrah - were part of a terrorist cell. Three other suspected members of that cell fled in early September and are being sought as accomplices. Senior law enforcement officials say the Hamburg plotters received the blessing - and, crucially, cash - from Al Qaeda, although investigators say they do not know who in Osama bin Laden's organization approved the operation. Several officials say they suspect it was Mr. bin Laden himself, and investigators have also said his top three associates were involved in the planning. "They met with somebody else who was calling the shots" in Germany, one official said. "But we don't know who that person is.'` Mr. Shehhi and Mr. Atta received visas to enter the United States in January 2000, and Mr. Jarrah arrived in June of that year. Another pilot, Hani Hanjour, had been living in Southern California since 1996, and two of the logistics men, Nawaq Alhazmi and Khalid al-Midhar, had moved to San Diego in 1999. Investigators are not certain how the Hamburg and California groups came together, but evidence suggests it was through Al Qaeda channels. Investigators say they have linked Mr. Midhar to the attack on the American destroyer Cole and perhaps to the 1998 bombings of American Embassies in East Africa. The money for the operation began arriving at branches of the SunTrust Bank and Century Bank in Florida, in the summer of 2000. Mr. Atta received slightly more than $100,000, Mr. Shehhi just less than that amount. About half of the $500,000 used to pay for the operation, senior Federal Bureau of Investigation officials say, was wired by an important bin Laden operative, Mustafa Ahmad, from the United Arab Emirates, and much of the rest from Germany. However, one official said the authorities suspected the money trail began in Pakistan. Travel records show each of the men making several trips in and out of the United States in 2000 and early 2001 - to Spain, Prague, Bangkok and Saudi Arabia. Mr. Atta took seven international trips; Mr. Shehhi took five. In this country, they all had begun taking flying lessons, in Phoenix, San Diego and South Florida. By spring 2001, the 12 men whom investigators call the muscle had begun to arrive from Saudi Arabia. The Saudi government, stung by reports that most of the hijackers had visas from their country, initially said that the hijackers used fake identities stolen from innocent citizens. But the F.B.I. says that it has confirmed the identities of all 19 of the hijackers, and that 15 were Saudis. While the Saudi government has restricted the F.B.I. and reporters from interviewing the families of the men, the families of some of the foot soldiers have told Arab newspapers that their sons left within the last 18 months, variously saying they were going to seek religious counseling, on pilgrimage or on jihad in Chechnya. An investigator said there was evidence that these men spent at least a year in Al Qaeda training camps. The family of one, Mohand Alshehri, said he had studied at Imam Muhammed Ibn Saud Islamic University in Abha, Saudi Arabia, for one semester. The father of two others, Wail and Waleed Alshehri, said they had studied to become teachers. Another, Ahmed Alnami, had studied law in Abha. The man the F.B.I. identifies as the third logistics man, Majed Moqed, studied at King Saud University in Riyadh, in the faculty of administration and economics, according to Arab newspapers. Most hailed from poor villages where fundamentalism thrives. But their families appeared to be on the upper rungs; their fathers were religious leaders, school principals, shopkeepers and businessmen. None had visited the United States before, and several appeared to speak little or no English. Once they arrived, the logistics men helped them fade into American life. Hani Hanjour helped some rent an apartment in Paterson, N.J. Others cycled through one apartment in Delray Beach, Fla. Mr. Midhar helped some obtain illegal driver's licenses and photo ID's in Virginia. The leaders and logistics men seemed to "buddy up" with their junior partners. When Ahmed Alhaznawi had an ulcerated leg, Mr. Jarrah took him to Holy Cross Hospital in Palm Beach County, Fla. At first, Mr. Atta and Mr. Shehhi lived together in Florida; Mr. Shehhi then moved in with Fayez Ahmed , and Mr. Atta with Abdulaziz Alomari, the last hijacker to arrive. Most of the 19 obtained Social Security numbers, which allowed them to open bank accounts and obtain credit cards. They seemed, the F.B.I. says, to remain self-contained, with little or no help from a support network in the United States. Investigators suspect the help came from money men in the United Arab Emirates and several important lieutenants in Germany and Afghanistan. Research and Planning Al Qaeda's manual, which prosecutors say was used in the embassy bombings, outlines three stages of any operation: research, planning and execution. "In order to discover any unexpected element detrimental to the operation," it says, "it is necessary, prior to execution of the operation, to rehearse it in a place similar to that of the real operation." So beginning in May, the leaders and logistics men began taking trial flights on cross-country routes, though they never took the exact flights that they would later hijack. After each flight to the West Coast, they flew to Las Vegas. And each time, they flew first class - as most of the 19 would on Sept. 11. Although they traveled first class, their accommodations were distinctly low- rent, at an Econo Lodge on the faded end of the Strip. Although several of the hijackers are believed to have had numerous meetings in South Florida and Paterson, senior investigators say they are convinced that the most important American planning occurred in that dingy hotel room. Investigators say they can confirm only one overlapping visit to Las Vegas, on Aug. 13 and 14, although they say the picture may not be complete. An Algerian who is believed to have helped train the pilots, Lotfi Raissi, drove from Phoenix to Las Vegas at least once last summer, and hijackers may have done the same. Mr. Alhazmi and Mr. Hanjour arrived together and appear to have spent most of their time together; Mr. Atta spent most of his time alone, disappearing into the dark cavern of Cyberzone, an Internet cafe where young men slouch in front of a half-dozen brightly lighted computer terminals, surfing the Web. Investigators are not sure why the plotters chose Las Vegas. "Perhaps they figured it would be easy to blend in," one senior official said. The men were most likely following the manual's protocol: meet at a place that offers good cover. It is not unusual for criminals to launder money in Las Vegas casinos, but surveillance tapes show no trace of the hijackers. Based on that and on interviews, the F.B.I. says it believes the hijackers did not gamble. Nor have investigators found any local terrorist cells there. There was one curious disruption in their pattern, on the last trip east from Las Vegas. For the flights in May, June and July, the hijackers booked nonstop, round-trip tickets. But on that final flight, they bought one-way tickets to different destinations, with layovers, and they flew coach, not first class. Investigators speculate that with their test flights completed, the hijackers now wanted to save money. They may also have wanted to see if they could buy one-way tickets without attracting attention - which is what they did over the next two weeks as they purchased tickets for Sept. 11. Carrying Out the Mission Those return flights put the men in position to execute the plot. Mr. Hanjour and Mr. Alhazmi flew to Baltimore, where they would soon join their soldiers in nearby Laurel, Md. From there, on the morning of Sept. 11, they would leave for Dulles International Airport and American Airlines Flight 77. Mr. Atta flew from Las Vegas to Fort Lauderdale, Fla., near where much of the muscle was living. Investigators see a spike in the number of cellphone calls between the 19 in those final weeks. The hijackers bought plane tickets, each team choosing almost exactly the same seats on the planes. The Florida group moved north to Boston; the New Jersey group moved out of the Paterson apartment. Three hijackers wired money back to Mr. Ahmad in the United Arab Emirates. On Sept. 10, Mr. Atta and his charge, Mr. Alomari, drove from Boston to Portland, Me. Why Portland? Again, it may have been protocol: the manual warns against traveling in large groups and suggests boarding "at a secondary station" to deflect notice. The next morning, they almost missed their connecting flight at Logan Airport in Boston, making it with minutes to spare. As the hijackers may have anticipated from test runs, the planes hit cruising altitude after about 40 minutes. The hijackers, who had cared so little about learning to take off and land a plane, began their work. Four of the five men on American Flight 77, the jet that plowed into the Pentagon, had helped with the logistics or are considered by investigators to have been leaders. It is assumed that several of the logistics people, including Mr. Midhar, also carried box cutters and served as muscle. That plane, apparently flown by Mr. Hanjour, began to jerk wildly in the air. There may have been a struggle with the pilots, but investigators say it was more likely a result of Mr. Hanjour's poor skills - his flying school teachers would later say he had been a sorry student. Based on one cellphone call from one of the planes, the F.B.I. now contends that the muscle began to herd passengers into the back of the planes, and forced the pilots from the cockpit by telling them it was a traditional hijacking, one where, if demands were met, the passengers and crew would be released without harm. As the planes accelerated toward their targets, the muscle men, too, may have believed the same thing. This question remains the subject of debate within the F.B.I. Some investigators note that in surveillance photographs taken at a Portland A.T.M. the previous night, Mr. Alomari appears to be grinning, an expression more befitting a petty thief about to go on a stealing spree. One F.B.I. official said the prayers found at the crash sites seemed to exhort the foot soldiers to be strong in prison - unlike the four-page set of instructions and prayers found in Mr. Atta's luggage, which made it clear he believed he was going to his eternal paradise. Investigators in this country and abroad note that this would be in keeping with terrorist patterns. As Al Qaeda's manual instructs, "The operation members should not all be told about the operation until shortly before executing it, in order to avoid leaking of its news."

Al Qaeda Takes Cues From Asimov? The Ansible (http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Ansible/a172.html) and Locus Online (http://www.locusmag.com/2001/News/News11Log.html) Web sites both reported on the rumor of a possible connection between Al Qaeda, the Islamic terrorist network purportedly masterminded by Osama bin Laden, and, of all things, Isaac Asimov's classic SF novel Foundation, the first in his well-known series of the same name. Ansible quoted SF writer China Mi�ville--author of King Rat, Perdido Street Station and Macmillan's upcoming The Scar--as saying, "My supervisor, an expert in the Middle East, told me about a rumor circulating about the name of bin Laden's network. The term al qaeda seems to have no political precedent in Arabic, and has therefore been something of a conundrum to the experts, until someone pointed out that a very popular book in the Arab world--Arabs apparently being big readers of translated SF--is Asimov's Foundation, the title of which is translated as Al Qaeda. Unlikely as it sounds, this is the only theory anyone can come up with." At least one post on a Russian message board (http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/5491-4.cfm) speculated that bin Laden might be taking cues from Asimov's book, about an uprising against a Galactic Empire led by a single-minded revolutionary and his band of fighters against overwhelming military odds, Locus reported. For the record, the PBS Frontline Web site reported that al qaeda is "an Arabic word meaning 'the base.'

...and asimov was jewish bin laden's form of fundamentalism is remarkably malleable, when he wants it to be

FBI: Sender of anthrax letters a guy, a loner Saturday Nov. 10 By Chris Mondics and James Kuhnhenn Knight Ridder Newspapers WASHINGTON -- FBI officials said Friday that they believe the person who mailed several anthrax-filled letters is probably a U.S.-based male loner with a scientific bent, possibly like Unabomber Ted Kaczynski, whose letter bombs mystified law enforcement for nearly two decades. Federal officials have been speculating for weeks that the anthrax attacks were not connected to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, but the FBI's announcement Friday was the strongest endorsement yet of that theory. Even so, FBI officials said they had not ruled out the possibility that Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network is behind the anthrax attacks. But they said the wording of the three known anthrax-laced letters suggests a domestic source. "We are not ruling anything out, but we are certainly looking in that direction," said one FBI official, who spoke to reporters on condition that he not be identified. The officials hope the public will help identify the culprit. In related developments, traces of anthrax spores were found in four more central New Jersey post offices, President Bush boosted the National Guard presence at the nation's airports, and top administration officials offered assurances that security measures taken since Sept. 11 have made the nation safer. Whoever sent the letters "did not select his victims randomly," the FBI source said. Based on analysis of the handwriting on the letters, they said the anthrax attacker likely was nursing a grudge and probably had a high degree of technical training. The officials believe, too, that he decided to increase the potency of the anthrax he put into the letters as one attack led to another. So far, four people have died after inhaling anthrax spores, and 13 more got sick from anthrax exposure. The officials said that they could detect no political agenda from the letters and their sender's known actions. Each of the three known letters were photocopies, not originals, likely used to help him evade pursuers. The FBI profile of the likely anthrax attacker suggests that he probably avoids public situations. If he has a job, they said, it likely does not involve contact with many people. They suspect he underwent a significant behavioral change as the letters went out, becoming focused on his mission to spread terror, and might have struck acquaintances as increasingly remote. FBI officials said they doubt the letters were sent by Middle Eastern terrorists because they do not resemble other such letters sent in the past. One official said that such letters typically include some Arabic text, but these do not. The FBI's new profile of the likely anthrax-attacker doesn't bring them any closer to solving the case. Law enforcement authorities spent nearly two decades trying to capture the Unabomber and did not succeed until Ted Kaczynski's brother turned him in. The FBI appealed openly to the public to help them identify possible suspects, knowing they probably will have to rely on an informant to finger the person responsible. In a potential break in the hunt for the suspect, anthrax tests detected traces of the bacteria in four more post offices in central New Jersey, authorities said Friday. The small satellite offices all feed a regional processing center that handled three tainted letters sent to Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle's office in Washington and to the New York offices of NBC and the New York Post. The new evidence could help narrow down possible sites from where the letters were sent. Meanwhile, the Bush administration sought to reassure an anxious public that it was safeguarding the nation's airports, mail system and water supplies against new terrorist attacks. President Bush announced a 25 percent increase in the number of National Guard troops assigned to protect airports during the busy holiday season. The increase, effective immediately, will boost by 2,000 the 6,000 guard troops that already have been stationed at airports since the Sept. 11 suicide hijackings. "These are temporary measures and we believe they will help a lot," Bush said. With no new reports of anthrax infections, Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge expressed hope that the threat of anthrax was subsiding. His optimism came as two postal workers who had been treated for the often fatal inhalation form of the disease were released from their hospital beds and sent home. "We're prayerful, we're hopeful, we hope that this is the last we ever see and have to deal with it," Ridge said. Meanwhile, Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Christie Todd Whitman said her agency was working closely with water companies and other federal agencies to protect drinking water from contamination. "The good news here, if there is good news, is that it takes more than a teaspoon or a cupful of a biological or chemical agent to disrupt a water supply and to jeopardize or threaten the health of a municipality or a city," she said. "In fact . . . it would take a truckload to do it." The assurances came a week after the administration issued a nationwide alert warning that a terrorist strike might be imminent somewhere, but without further details. Many criticized that warning, the second since Sept. 11, as too vague to be useful and pointlessly alarmist. (Mondics is a Washington correspondent for the Philadelphia Inquirer. Tony Pugh and Sumana Chatterjee in Washington, and Jake Wagman and Tom Avril of the Philadelphia Inquirer contributed to this article.) Could this be a gov. conspiracy in order to enable them to not declare war on other Muslim counties which might be responsble, such as Iraq or even Saudi Arabia? How does the anthrax found in Pakistan fit in? Why would "a U.S.-based male loner" do that? I have my doubts.

Another plane crash today. Anyone heard any news on this?

Kabul. Northern Alliance troops have taken control of Kabul amid scenes of chaos and jubilation. In a dramatic overnight advance, Northern Alliance units entered the Afghan capital after Taleban fighters fled towards their southern stronghold, Kandahar. Troops were backed by rockets and US bombing There was a vacuum of authority in the city after the Taleban withdrew, with reports of looting, but the BBC's William Reeve says the atmosphere is now less tense. Taleban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar is reported to have urged his troops to regroup and fight. He is quoted by the Pakistan-based Afghan Islamic Press as telling his men to obey their commanders and not to desert. Some Arab volunteers serving with the Taleban were summarily shot and a BBC camera crew was attacked as opposition troops entered Kabul. from the BBC.co.uk website.

Yup, watched the sorry structural failure that caused the small community of Rockaway even more pain. I they buried 12 members of their community with the WTC disaster. This is truly tragic. Yup, an American is sick enough to have created an atmosphere scary enough to cause 32,000 of his fellow citizens to take antibioitcs and kill a few others. There is really not a punishment which fits this crime. I'd make it as slow and as painful as possible. I am throroughly disgusted with apologists and terorists making excuses for why WE deserve to die. Time for payback !

On NPR this morning they were discussing the formation of a "tribunal for terrrorists, something usually reserved for overseas cases, but now being positioned for domestic used. The Bush administration is faced with the scary thought of a Court system that might result in, say, a hung jury for a Bin Laden. I'll look for details on the web today, it's early and I haven't been to the news web sites yet. Meanwhile, there is music in the streets of Afghanistan. I had a fantasy about a bunch of rock musicians going there and throwing a big, free Woodstock sytle concert for the Afghan people. I fantasized this while I was cleaning the garage.

David Kline's thoughts on the Taliban and freeing of Kabul. And no laughter in public. Until yesterday, if the religious police (who all carry plastic foot-long whips) caught you on a street in Kabul laughing at a friend's joke, you would be whipped. They also patrolled the soccer stadium during games -- yes the same stadium where public executions were held -- and if they saw fans applauding or rooting too hard for their team, they would be whipped. No public display of humanity was allowed. These people are so much worse than backward, I can't find the proper words to describe them. Their leaders and top cadre must all be killed. Period. . . . let's not get too excited about a few executions and a certain amount of disorder. This isn't the new Mayor of New York being sworn in here -- these are tribal people who've lived with nothing but savage war for 25 years. A few reprisals is to be expected. But I'll bet anything that it will be limited, and that order and a broad-based transition regime will be put in place soon. There's too much at stake. And this time the world is watching, acting as a stabilizing influence. Since my first post here on 9/12 or so, I have argued that the only way to oust the Taliban is to help and assist the Northern Alliance and other forces take the initiative. This is now what's happening. Seven days ago when some here wondered whether NA forces were too timid to fight -- "We don't like to train in the rain," said one commander -- I urged people not to underestimate them. They may not be the smartest fighters around, but they're surely the toughest. And it's true, they've taken a good number of casualties and plunged ahead with American help. I now worry a little about the Taliban's sudden withdrawal from Kabul. It is such an Afghan move -- Massoud invented and used it 7 times to butcher Soviet armored columns trying to move into his Pansjir Valley redoubt. Could they be laying a suck 'em in and then envelope 'em scheme? We'll soon see. But now with the Herat-Kabul line established and the Taliban apparently retreating to their last-stand defense perimeter, my guess (today) is that two things are going to happen: 1) Pashtun (not Arab) Taliban commanders in the south will begin putting out defection feelers. Leaders to replace Abdul Haq will emerge. 2) The fighting is going to get a lot more bloody because these fucking Arabs really can't wait to die and we can't wait to help them die. Unless, miracle of miracles, the Taliban simply collapses and they head for the border. We better have a brigade and every Pashtun speaking agent we have standing at that Quetta border. They should look for a "woman" in burqa sitting atop a horse-drawn wagon (to conceal "her" true height) trying to mosey on through the border.

Kline: . . . it's a very smart move to leave some open leeway for fleeing Taliban forces. Because the point is to encourage defections -- which are now going to begin en masse, you can be sure -- and thereby separate the Arab from the Pashtun Taliban. That could bring a swift collapse of the regime. Or, if the Arab legions head for the hills to try and wage guerrilla warfare against a post Taliban authority, then the most effective way to root them out will be to send people after them who are a) even tougher than the Arabs; and b) know the mountains even better than the Arabs. IOTW, the Pashtun Afghans who grew up in those damn mountains. Watch for defections increasing by the day. Because the tide has turned. (Unless the retreat from Kabul really is some sort of suck-em-in trap.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24744-2001Nov13.html "Bush said the tribunals are needed because "mass deaths, mass injuries and massive destruction of property" from future terrorism could "place at risk the continuity of the operations of the United States government." It is "not practicable," he said, to require the tribunals to abide by the "principles of law and the rules of evidence" that govern U.S. criminal prosecutions. .... Bush's order promises "a full and fair trial" and access to lawyers, but there is no provision for an appeal to U.S. civil courts or international tribunals. Only Bush or the secretary of defense, if the president so chooses, will have the authority to overturn a decision. .... The order says defendants could include past or present members of al Qaeda or anyone involved in acts of international terrorism intended to have "adverse effects on the United States, its citizens, national security or economy." It also targets anyone who has "knowingly harbored" such terrorists."

my guess (today) is that two things are going to happen: 2) The fighting is going to get a lot more bloody because these fucking Arabs really can't wait to die and we can't wait to help them die. All I can say is bring it on... #2 is a great line.

I find that statement frightening. How does one deal with people who WANT to die?? I was most delighted last night to watch the enforced beards being shaved off men. I had hoped to see a liberated woman or two, but that did not happe. We are far from done with this war. Rob mentioned to me that geologists had studied OBL's most recent movies and determined that he was not in Afghanistan. The rock forming his cave were not the kind found in Afghanistan. That had not occurred to me!

New York Times November 14, 2001 Bush to Subject Terrorism Suspects to Military Trials By ELISABETH BUMILLER and DAVID JOHNSTON ASHINGTON, Nov. 13 � President Bush signed an order today allowing special military tribunals to try foreigners charged with terrorism. A senior administration official said that any such trials would "not necessarily" be public and that the American tribunals might operate in Pakistan and Afghanistan. At the same time, the Justice Department has asked law enforcement authorities across the country to pick up and question 5,000 men, most from Middle Eastern countries, who entered the country legally in the last two years. Both actions are part of a sweeping government effort to expand the investigation into Al Qaeda's network and clear the way for the more aggressive prosecution of anyone charged with terrorism. Mr. Bush signed the order allowing for the military tribunals shortly before leaving this afternoon for his ranch in Crawford, Tex. White House officials said the order did not create a military tribunal or a list of terrorists to be tried. Instead, they said, it was an "option" that the president would have should Osama bin Laden or his associates in Al Qaeda be captured. If the tribunals were created, it would be the first time since World War II that such an approach was used, officials said. Under the order, the president himself is to determine who is an accused terrorist and therefore subject to trial by the tribunal. The order states that the president may "determine from time to time in writing that there is reason to believe" that an individual is a member of Al Qaeda, has engaged in acts of international terrorism or has "knowingly harbored" a terrorist. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/14/national/14DETA.html ================================================================================ Wednesday November 14 01:13 PM EST Some Warn of Too Much Police Power By Oliver Libaw ABCNEWS.com After Sept. 11, are police getting too much power? Secret property searches, detaining individuals without charges, jailing people on secret evidence, even military tribunals - such powers may seem far-fetched, but law enforcement agencies have them, and are using them to press their campaign against terror. The Patriot Act, as the sweeping anti-terrorism legislation recently signed into law is officially known, is part of an unprecedented effort to catch those responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks � the worst acts of terrorism ever � and prevent future assaults. President Bush added to those powers Tuesday, signing an executive order that allows suspected high-level terrorists to be tried in greater secrecy by the military. The enforcement measures have provoked a wide-ranging debate about how to safeguard civil liberties without overly constraining investigators, but many civil liberties advocates say the government has gone too far. Secret Evidence Some point to what they say are problems with earlier anti-terror laws as proof the system may be abused, especially by holding people on secret evidence. This week, the federal government appealed a lower court ruling concerning the power to hold immigrants for long periods based only on such evidence. The case involves Mazen Al-Najjar, a Palestinian professor at the University of South Florida, who was held by the Immigration and Naturalization Service for more than three years based on evidence that was never shown to him or his attorney. A federal judge in Miami had found that Al-Najjar's rights were violated. Al-Najjar had lived in the United States for 20 years and headed a charity that officials suspected was a front for a Palestinian terrorist group, but the exact allegations and evidence against him have not been revealed. Al-Najjar, who was never charged with a crime, was released in December 2000. His case is one of some two dozen in which immigrants have been held for months or years based entirely on secret evidence, but were never prosecuted. "If these folks were such serious threats, why weren't they prosecuted criminally?" asks Susan Akram, a Boston University law professor who represents another secret evidence detainee, Anwar Haddam. The Dangers of Expanded Power Expanding government agencies' surveillance powers is also dangerous, says David Kairys, a constitutional rights lawyer and professor at Temple University in Philadelphia. "It's easily open to abuse," he says, pointing to problems in the past, such as the so-called Palmer Raids carried out by President Woodrow Wilson's attorney general in the early 1900s. Between 1918 and 1921, A. Mitchell Palmer pursued and smashed union offices and Communist and Socialist Party headquarters, spurred on by growing fears of radical foreign agents. In 1919, he seized more than 200 resident aliens believed to have radical political views and put them on a ship bound for the Soviet Union. The FBI also famously pursued Martin Luther King Jr. as a national security threat in the '50s and '60s. Efforts to loosen restrictions and expand powers of law enforcement could well lead to similar problems, Kairys says. Law enforcement's expanded powers could "be used not against terrorists but against people who have viewpoints against the government," he says. Investigators could use recently relaxed restrictions on roving wiretaps to monitor groups and organizations, he says. By obtaining a wiretap on one member of a group, law enforcement officials can now track incoming and outgoing calls on any phone the suspect uses. If the individual uses a phone belonging to the organization, Kairys fears agents would be able to look at all the phone records for the group. Some argue that such fears are overblown, however. "I think that's a little far-fetched," says Elizabeth Rindskopf Parker, the former general counsel of the CIA and National Security Agency. "Getting [court permission for] a wiretap is not an easy thing." Rindskopf Parker advocates close oversight of the domestic anti-terror campaign, but says it's unreasonable to assume there will be widespread abuse. "I think law enforcement has learned from earlier privacy mistakes," she says. Detainees The FBI has detained more than a thousand individuals since Sept. 11 � most, the agency says, picked up on unrelated charges. Officials' refusal to release the names of the detainees or to say how long they were held has troubled civil liberties advocates. Many of them are still being held, Justice officials said. Some detainees have publicly complained of mistreatment, but only one had filed a complaint as of last week. Feds Listening In The Bush administration has also made it easier to listen in on people's conversations with their lawyers, allowing investigators to break the seal of attorney-client privilege when it comes to jailed terror suspects. The administration on Friday defended the decision to tap such conversations. White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said the monitoring applies to a "very narrow number of people, people who the intelligence community will formally certify that conversations are a potential threat to the national security of the nation." Critics have complained loudly, however, that such action violates attorney-client privilege. Rindskopf Parker, who spent her early career on civil rights issues, sums up the difficulty civil liberties advocates and the government face. "We all sign on to the notion that absolute power invites abuse," she says. But she also notes that Americans may have to deal with intelligence lapses when the government law enforcers are restrained from peering wherever they want. "We don't have domestic intelligence because we don't want a government that spies on us," she says. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/abc/20011114/ts/civilliberties011114_1.html ================================================================================ WASHINGTON, Nov. 14 (UPI) -- House Judiciary Committee Ranking Member John Conyers,D-Mich., said Wednesday a decision by President George W. Bush that terrorist suspects might face a military tribunal adds to questions about civil liberties. In a Nov. 14 letter to Committee Chairman Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., Conyerscalled for hearings on civil liberties, including an administration plan to monitor some defendants' communication with their lawyers, and the status of suspects detained in the government's investigations of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Conyers said Bush's Tuesday decision to establish military tribunals run by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld only adds to his concern. "Indeed, the very purpose of the directive appears to be to skirt the usual constitutional and criminal justice rules that are the hallmark of our democratic form of government." While Sensenbrenner did not return calls seeking comment, Conyers' request comes one day after United Press International reported that Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., might soon hold hearings on the new government policy on monitoring communication between defense attorneys and their clients, and the status of what lawmakers said could be 1,000 people detained by the government.Some of those detainees have reportedly been released. Leahy twice sent letters to Attorney General John Ashcroft on the issues on Oct. 31 and Nov. 9. "We also have received no cooperation from the Justice Department in our effort to obtain information regarding the 1,000 plus immigrants who have been detained in connection with the terrorism investigation, as reflected in a letter that several Democratic Members transmitted to the attorney general on Oct. 31, 2001," Conyers wrote to Sensenbrenner Wednesday. "We would be remiss in our duties, however, if we did not also oversee the extent to which the Department may be abusing its authority and wrongfully targeting innocent Americans." http://www.unitedstates.com/news/farticle/640127?20011114142500 =============================================================================== Bush Order on Military Tribunals is Further Evidence That Government is Abandoning Democracy's Checks and Balances Statement of Laura W. Murphy, Director ACLU Washington National Office FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Wednesday, November 14, 2001 WASHINGTON -- The American Civil Liberties Union is deeply disturbed by President Bush's executive order allowing special military tribunals to try non-citizens charged with terrorism. The tribunals would even reach non-citizens in the United States, including lawful permanent residents. To our knowledge, the move to establish a military tribunal when Congress has not declared war is unprecedented. We do not believe that the Administration has shown that the constitutional jury trial system does not allow for the prosecution of those accused of terrorist activities. Absent such a compelling justification, the President's decision is further evidence that the Administration is totally unwilling to abide by the checks and balances that are so central to our democracy. The use of military tribunals would apparently authorize secret trials without a jury and without the requirement of a unanimous verdict and would limit a defendant's opportunities to confront the evidence against him and choose his own lawyer. What's worse, these important legal protections would be removed in a situation where defendants may very well be facing the death penalty. It is difficult to understand how the Administration can justify the use of a tribunal when the United States has successfully tried in our courts non-citizens accused of terrorist acts, organized crime, and others in situations where the safety of jurors and the disclosure of government intelligence methods were at issue. As the prosecutions of the 1993 World Trade Center bombers and Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh demonstrate, the government has managed to protect the safety and identity of jurors while achieving convictions in terrorism cases. And there is already a system established to handle classified information in the course of a trial; it is called the Classified Information Procedures Act. For decades, CIPA has adequately balanced national security and due process concerns. The government has made no showing that CIPA procedures would not be adequate in these circumstances as well. Further, it would be hypocritical of the United States to impose such a tribunal when we have repeatedly protested the use of such courts against U.S. citizens abroad. Congress has already given the Administration and the Justice Department virtually everything they asked for to fight terrorism. This latest move, combined with the Justice Department's announced intentions to eavesdrop on attorney conversations with inmates and to begin interviewing foreign visitors to the United States, demonstrates the government's increasing willingness to circumvent the requirements of the Bill of Rights. We call on Congress to exercise its oversight powers before the Bill of Rights in America is distorted beyond recognition. http://www.aclu.org/news/2001/n111401b.html

Tracking bin Laden: Still a lot of caves to hide in Nov. 14, 2001, 4:58PM By SALLY BUZBEE Associated Press WASHINGTON -- The United States is pursuing Osama bin Laden and Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, believed to be on the move in the shrinking but still difficult parts of Afghanistan that their forces control. Sharpening the focus on the war's primary targets, American special operations troops are questioning Taliban defectors and prisoners, dangling millions in reward money and hoping for a communications slip-up. Warplanes focus more bombing on mountain hide-outs and caves where Omar or bin Laden might try to disappear. The two men, both expert in guerrilla warfare, have plenty of those remote caves and mountain tunnels -- and enough friends and supplies along the Pakistani border -- to make the chase difficult. "We still have a ways to go" in tracking them, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld cautioned today. U.S. intelligence officials believe bin Laden and Omar are still in the region of Afghanistan not under northern alliance control, said a U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity. Each is moving around, but they aren't believed to be together. It isn't thought likely that bin Laden will try to leave the country, because such movements could expose him to capture. A Taliban official said today that Omar and his "guest" bin Laden were "safe and well." Omar claimed in a radio address Tuesday that he was in the Taliban's southern stronghold of Kandahar, the site Wednesday of sporadic fighting between Taliban and rebel Pashtun leaders. The United States is bombing areas in the south and in the east, especially around Jalalabad, where bin Laden is known to have hide-outs. "Bunker-buster" bombs can dig under the surface and explode in a tunnel. Fuel-air explosives can produce tremendous heat and suck out a cave or tunnel's oxygen. Defectors and prisoners are probably the best hope for information on where bin Laden is now, said a former senior U.S. intelligence official with experience in South Asia. Even rumors or hints -- about something such as a recent supply run to a cave, for example -- could prove a breakthrough. In addition, "It may very well be that money will talk at some point," Rumsfeld said, referring to the millions in reward money the United States has offered. Or, Taliban troops and commanders on the run might take fewer precautions with radios and phones, allowing U.S. eavesdropping aircraft to pick up communications and thus get hints to bin Laden's location. U.S. special forces also have been watching roads in southern Afghanistan to see who passes by, Rumsfeld said, and "to stop people that they think ought to be stopped." Bin Laden is believed to move from cave to cave -- some a three days' walk into the mountains -- with only a group of highly trusted aides. The amount of support he can still muster among thousands of past supporters is key. The Taliban may fracture, with some commanders deciding to become guerrilla fighters in mountainous southern Afghanistan, and others making peace with the Pashtun leaders now taking power, said another U.S. official. Afghan fighters have a history of retreating from cities but then waging effective guerrilla warfare in mountains for years afterward, essentially thwarting an enemy's larger goals, said Charles Fairbanks, a central Asia expert at Johns Hopkins University. "Particularly if they fled to the east, that's a very difficult situation," Fairbanks said. "They have so many sympathizers in Pakistan, and Pakistan really has no control of the situation there." Such supporters could keep bin Laden and Omar supplied with food, guns and hiding places, said Andrew Hess, an expert on Pakistan and Afghanistan at Tufts University. In addition, the former guerrilla leader who took control of Jalalabad from the Taliban, Mullah Yunus Khalis, has long-standing ties with bin Laden's Arab followers. Bin Laden is believed to have camps in the mountains near there. Most U.S. officials and outside experts do not think Omar would ever give bin Laden up, despite what Rumsfeld called signs of strain between the two. In his most recent interview, bin Laden said he was "ready to die." Chillingly, he predicted the war against America would continue even if he were gone. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/special/terror/front/1133127

NPR talked about music in the streets of Kabul today, and the women are liberated, yet they still completely shroud themselves in clothing.

David Kline (dkline) Wed Nov 14 '01 (09:54) 43 lines The number of reprisals is unbelievably limited by historic Afghan standards. I am convinced the Northern Alliance intends to do things right this time, and to unite democratically with the southern Pashtun tribes. Pashtun tribes, by the way, who at this moment are rising up spontaneously to fight the Taliban with no leadership other than village elders to guide them. These unorganized Pashtun farmers have already seized the Kandahar airport to prepare the way for U.S. and Northern Alliance activity. And now a more personal note: We have all of us discussed and learned a lot in the past two months, especially in the last month since the war in Afghanistan began. Just two weeks ago many were thinking these Northern Alliance warlords are too timid to fight, that no one supported them, and that surely the Taliban had to have mass public support else they wouldn't be in power, right? I am so grateful to have been able to have these discussions with you because it brought up a deep and long-buried sympatico I feel for the only people I met in my round-the-world travels whom I ever completely loved and admired (despite all their screwy fractiousness). Most anyone who has ever been to Afghanistan feels the same way. Remember how I said from Day 1 that the Taliban are NOT the Afghans? In Kabul today, the NY Times reports a man standing atop a building waving in the air one of those foot-long plastic whips used to beat women -- and crowds cheering him in joy. Burqas are being tossed. Kites are flying. And music -- remember I described how the mujahadeen once outfitted a captured Soviet tank with tape deck and speakers? -- music is playing again! Anyway, I want to say thank you all so much for bearing with my sometimes arrogant certainty of victory for the Afghans. And for sympathizing with me in such a gentle and compassionate way the loss of my friend Abdul Haq. And especially for being not only deeply interested in a little-known people half a world away but also for being absolutely the smartest and most insightful group of people that I have ever "spoken" with. The battle is finally being won. Afghanistan will be liberated at last! I can't even describe how happy I am, and how much it meant to me to be able to share all this with you. Thank you all.

An awesome statement by one of the most insightful commentators on Afghan Life, thanks David Klein.

David Klein: To me, the next big challenge is how to slowly win the trust of the broad masses of Muslims worldwide and isolate the extremists who serve as recruiting ground for the Bin Ladens of this world. We've got to: 1) Apologize for Mossadegh and the Shah of Iran 2) Pledge henceforth our support of democratic reform in Muslim nations ruled by elites 3) Break legs if we have to in order to cool down or even hopefully solve the Palestinian question 4) Offer massive economic aid to Pakistan and other key Muslim states facing fundamentalist threats 5) And finally, in a televised address to the whole world, announce that we want to work with Muslims of good faith everywhere to solve our mutual problems That's how you end the scourge of Islamic terrorism, and not simply snuff Al-Queda. I don't imagine the US will take all the above steps immediately, but we humans are pretty adaptive -- we'll learn eventually that if we want to end terrorism that's what we'll need to do.

Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) November 13, 2001 Appeal to the UN and World community The people of Afghanistan do not accept domination of the Northern Alliance! Now it is confirmed that the Taliban have left Kabul and the Northern Alliance has entered the city. The world should understand that the Northern Alliance is composed of some bands who did show their real criminal and inhuman nature when they were ruling Afghanistan from 1992 to 1996. The retreat of the terrorist Taliban from Kabul is a positive development, but entering of the rapist and looter NA in the city is nothing but a dreadful and shocking news for about 2 million residents of Kabul whose wounds of the years 1992-96 have not healed yet. Thousands of people who fled Kabul during the past two months were saying that they feared coming to power of the NA in Kabul much more than being scared by the US bombing. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda will be eliminated, but the existence of the NA as a military force would shatter the joyful dream of the majority for an Afghanistan free from the odious chains of barbaric Taliban. The NA will horribly intensify the ethnic and religious conflicts and will never refrain to fan the fire of another brutal and endless civil war in order to retain in power. The terrible news of looting and inhuman massacre of the captured Taliban or their foreign accomplices in Mazar-e-Sharif in past few days speaks for itself. Though the NA has learned how to pose sometimes before the West as "democratic" and even supporter of women's rights, but in fact they have not at all changed, as a leopard cannot change its spots. RAWA has already documented heinous crimes of the NA. Time is running out. RAWA on its own part appeals to the UN and world community as a whole to pay urgent and considerable heed to the recent developments in our ill-fated Afghanistan before it is too late. We would like to emphatically ask the UN to send its effective peace-keeping force into the country before the NA can repeat the unforgettable crimes they committed in the said years. The UN should withdraw its recognition to the so-called Islamic government headed by Rabbani and help the establishment of a broad-based government based on the democratic values. RAWA's call stems from the aspirations of the vast majority of the people of Afghanistan. http://rawa.fancymarketing.net/na-appeal.htm RAWA Main Page: http://rawa.fancymarketing.net/index.html RAWA documents and statements: http://rawa.fancymarketing.net/documents.htm

I was just musing, in my early waking hours this morning, about how great it would be if there were on outpouring of love for Afghanis from America and the world, the country can grow and prosper now that the evil regime is on the run. The job is far from finished, but the pieces have started to fall in place.

The story of how the eight religious aid workers were released by the Taliban, plucked from a field near Ghazni by a local Pashtun commander and the Red Cross, and flown by US helicopter to a Pakistani air base is going to be quite the blockbuster. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/15/international/asia/15WORK.html

By Molly Moore Washington Post Foreign Service Thursday, November 15, 2001; 1:08 PM Excerpt: The German workers today provided dramatic details of their escape, while the two American women, Heather Mercer, who grew up in Vienna, Va., and Dayna Curry, of Thompson's Station, Tenn., and two Australians spent the day in seclusion.................... Georg Taubmann, who headed the Kabul office of the German-based Shelter International Now, provided dramatic details of an escape he called "horrifying." While many details of the past two days remain murky, this is the story as he told it. On Monday night, as the Taliban began fleeing Kabul, soldiers forced the eight detainees from their Kabul jail cells, loaded them in cars and joined the convoy of tanks, pickups and other vehicles streaming southward toward Kandahar. When the convoy reached the neighboring province of Wardak, soldiers led the eight out of the car and locked them in a large steel container. "It was terribly cold," Taubmann said. "They wanted to lock the container and leave us in there until the morning. We had no blankets. We were freezing the whole night through." The next morning they pushed on and were deposited in a prison in the southeastern city of Ghazni. Taubmann described it as the worst of the five prisons in which the group had been housed during the past 3� months. Shortly after arriving the walls rattled as U.S. aircraft dropped bombs nearby. The detainees then heard heaving gunfire and loud shouting outside the prison. Some time later they heard the doors of the prison cells clanging open. When their cell door burst open, a soldier stood in the doorway gripping a gun. The detainees believed he was a Taliban soldier who might kill them. Instead the soldier stared at them wide-eyed, apparently stunned to find foreigners in the prison. He then shouted, "Azad! Azad!" Free! Free! "We walked into the city and the people came out of the houses and they hugged us and they greeted us," said Taubmann. "They were all clapping. They didn't know there were foreigners in the prison." "It was like a big celebration for all those people," he said. A local commander who was among town citizens who rose up against the Taliban then found shelter for the eight at the local offices of an aid organization. With the International Committee of the Red Cross acting as an intermediary, messages were dispatched to the U.S., German and Australian embassies in Islamabad. Because of the difficulty in relaying messages and answers, it took nearly 24 hours to organize the rescue efforts by U.S. special forces based in Pakistan, according to the aid workers and diplomats. Meanwhile, in Ghazni, some local villagers expressed opposition to freeing the aid workers, believing they could be ransomed to their governments for large sums of money, rescuers apparently told the aid workers. On Wednesday night, with the city under a curfew and with some villagers agitating to hold on to the detainees, the eight were led to a field where U.S. special forces helicopters were supposed to pick them up. The aid workers said, however, that the helicopters could not locate them. With the helicopters thumping in the distance, angry villagers who allegedly wanted to hold the workers for ransom running toward them, and fearful that hostile Taliban troops were still in the area, the increasingly desperate aid workers began building a signal fire, first burning the women's headscarves, then sweaters and jackets. "We burned everything we had � clothes, everything � to make a big fire," said Taubmann. Special forces teams led the eight into helicopters and flew them to Pakistan, according to diplomats here. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34986-2001Nov15.html

Terry, you're right about love and accepting warmth for those still struggling to regain some sense of security in Afghanistan. They will make mistakes. All new forms of government do. We just need to let them explore what is best for them and keep the crazies from killing them all while they do so. It is a long tedious process. We're still in the process! *Hugs* I wish it were this easy!

Lethal Mouth Fresh from his ground war against New York taxi drivers, Lethal Weapon lead Danny Glover once again establishes why it's bad for actors to run their mouth without a script: As guest speaker at an anti-death penalty forum at Princeton University, Glover said America was the one to blame for bombing and terror around the world. "Yes -- Yes!" Glover said when asked if American forces should spare the Saudi terrorist's life. "When I say the death penalty is inhumane. I mean [it's inhumane] whether that person is in a bird cage [jail] or it's bin Laden." Lethal Pap at http://www.zwire.com/site/Danny_Glover.html Life in the Cave: Intercepted email As the hunt for bin Laden narrowed as of Wednesday, November 21, the following email appeared in our inbox: ----- Original Message ----- From: Bin Laden, Osama Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 8:17 AM To: Cavemates Subject: The Cave Hi guys. We've all been putting in long hours but we've really come together as a group and I love that. Big thanks to Omar for putting up the poster that says "There is no I in team" as well as the one that says "Hang In There, Baby." That cat is hilarious. However, while we are fighting a jihad, we can't forget to take care of the cave. And frankly I have a few concerns. First of all, while it's good to be concerned about cruise missiles, we should be even more concerned about the scorpions in our cave. Hey, you don't want to be stung and neither do I, so we need to sweep the cave daily. I've posted a sign-up sheet near the main cave opening. Second, it's not often I make a video address but when I do, I'm trying to scare the most powerful country on earth, okay? That means that while we're taping, please do not ride your razor scooter in the background. Just while we're taping. Thanks. Third point, and this is a touchy one. As you know, by edict, we're not supposed to shave our beards. But I need everyone to just think hygiene, especially after mealtime. We're all in this together. Fourth: food. I bought a box of Cheez-Its recently, clearly wrote "Osama" on the front, and put it on the top shelf. Today, my Cheez-Its were gone. Consideration. That's all I'm saying. Finally, we've heard that there may be American soldiers in disguise trying to infiltrate our ranks. I want to set up patrols to look for them. First patrol will be Omar, Muhammed, Abdul, Akbar, and Richard. Love you lots. Osama

Name that President "He walked into history an obscure, flat footed, bantamy little fellow in a light gray suit, the inhabitant of an eloquence-free zone who gave boring speeches in a flat voice. He was not compelling. This was more obvious because he followed a charismatic leader who did big things and filled the screen. He was quickly defined and dismissed by the opinion elite as "a first-rate second-rate man." And maybe at the beginning he feared the appraisal was correct, for when he became president he said very frankly that he felt the moon and the stars had fallen upon him." Okay, who is this guy? Answers at http://opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/ One More Reason to Give Thanks Out: Yellow Ribbons. In: Flags Surveying the reaction to September 11, Father Richard John Neuhaus asks, where have the yellow ribbons gone? Where did the flags suddenly come from? "Nobody decreed that it should be so," he writes in the December issue of First Things; "it just happened, and its happening is likely to be of great significance." First appearing in the Iranian hostage crisis two decades ago, the ribbons were "too often a symbol of self-pity and maudlin sentimentality." But they've been replaced by "a buoyant patriotism unprecedented in living memory." http://opinionjournal.com/columnists/rbartley/?id=95001487 "I Have A Dream" The hallucinations brought on by living with shrapnel inside your skull continue among the Taliban "leadership:" "Recent reports suggested that Mullah Omar, facing almost certain defeat, had agreed to surrender Kandahar. But yesterday Ahmad Karzai, whose brother Hamid has been negotiating with the Taliban for the surrender of the city, said Mullah Omar had changed his mind because he had had a prophetic dream in which he remained in power. "I have had a dream in which I am in charge for as long as I live," Mr. Karzai quoted Mullah Omar as saying." For as long as you live, Omar? Okay. Start the countdown clock at mission control! http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/story.jsp?story=105801 Duh as in 'Diplomat' The editors of The New Republic on why Colin Powell and his elves should back off and give victory a chance. "Just how brilliant do the diplomats of the United States think they are? They seem to believe that they can calibrate a place that is infamous for its lack of calibration. Their thinking about the political conditions for a military victory in Afghanistan has become rigid and dogmatic: they foolishly attempted to delay the fall of Kabul until their own plans for it could be met, once again giving Osama bin Laden the impression that we are reluctant warriors and hesitant victors. What happened in the North this week was not the United States unleashing the Northern Alliance; it was the Northern Alliance surprising the United States. And the United States could not bring itself to concede that this was a pleasant surprise." http://www.tnr.com/112601/editorial112601.html This Week's Conventional Media Wizdum THIS war is in trouble. We're bogged down, getting nowhere and staring at a Vietnam-style quagmire. The Taliban's grip on the country remains total. These famously tough warriors of iron resolve are unlikely to be. . . Whoops, sorry, that was last week. Just let me punch up this week's Conventional Media Wisdom. Ah, here we go. Things are moving too fast. There's a dangerous power vacuum. The Taliban, being famously tough, etc, have pulled off a brilliant double-bluff by abandoning every major city and lever of government. Their grip on selected southern and western caves remains total. The Northern Alliance are too vicious, unfairly targeting enemy soldiers instead of just killing unarmed women and homosexuals. The collapse of the burqa market will devastate the Afghan fashion industry. .,

http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/dt?ac=006605705660173&rtmo=V1PPjumx&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/01/11/17/do02.html Can't We All Just Get Along? The New York Times reports that the "spiritual ' leader of the Taliban is appealing to the world to just forgive and forget: Syed Tayyab Agha, spokesman for Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, also told a news conference that it is time to ``forget'' about the Sept. 11 terror attacks in the United States, as they have been superseded by the U.S.-led war on Afghanistan. ``You should forget the Sept. 11 attacks because now there is a new fighting against Muslims and Islam, and the international and global terrorists like America and Britain, they are killing daily our innocent people,'' he told journalists in the Afghan border town of Spinboldak. All in favor of inviting this guy to Thanksgiving dinner, send email to caveguys@screweinstan .com And Next on the USA's Christmas List Is.... An end to Saddam's regime would be a major defeat for terrorism and would give us great leverage in getting others-Iran and Syria, Saudis and Palestinians-to shut down terrorist movements. Winter, some say, is a bad time for war in Afghanistan. Everyone agrees that winter is a good time for war in Iraq. The time may come soon for George W. Bush to say again, "Let's roll." Michael Barone at U.S. News http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/011126/politics/26pol.htm

This is really great stuff on a day full of stuffing. Thanks! Harry Trumanm is my guess for Prez in the first part, but I am still hungry and preparing sacrifices for Mme Pele for later in the day.

"For the time being, the reasons behind the advance on Kunduz remain unclear." ... "Even as the advance began some northern commanders continued to insist that a surrender was still possible." "The BBC's Jon Sopel outside Kunduz said the military advance may indicate a battle for control of the town between different factions of the Northern Alliance." http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1669000/1669567.stm

I heard a blockbuster rumor today. Basically, there is a French book being published which recounts the FBI's investigation of Osama Bin Laden and his cohorts. which says that they were hot on the trail of all of the terorists and were then pulled off the case by the State Department just before 9/11. Reportedly, the chief of the FBI investigation quit over the interference from the State Department. I'll try and substantiate this with some facts and sources.

Interesting! I'll check too...

They may fave found Bin Laden's hideout. See topic 49 in the news conference. There's a picture of this mountain fortress.

I didn't know where else to put this. My Daughter-in-law sent it to me. I think it sums up my feelings as well as hers and my son's. Giving Thanks for What We're Not http://www.ncpa.org/edo/pd/2001/pd111901.html

dkline Mon Dec 10 '01 (09:49) Meanwhile, today's NY Times has a very encouraging front page article on the demoralizing effect the Afghan Jihad has had on the Swat Valley region of Pakistan (home to Shangri-La, believe it or not). 15,000 men were "volunteered" by their local mullahs to go fight -- "the militant leaders mostly stayed home, or crossed the frontier only long enough to declare themselves holy warriors before hastening back," notes the article -- and as many as 3,000 have never returned. The reason I say it's encouraging is that the great losses suffered by these poor uneducated people are surely weakening the hold over them that the fundamentalists have until now enjoyed. As one disillusioned local put it: "So a lot of innocent people have died, and Sufi Muhammad (the local religious boss) and other religious leaders are responsible for this. They sent people who had no training whatsoever to war, and then they stayed back in Pakistan. They are still alive, while so many others have died." One day we're going to be shocked to discover just how much control -- top to bottom -- the fundamentalists really had in Pakistan, a country with several ready-to-use nuclear weapons. The war, thank God, will hopefully allow us (and Mushareff) to break the grip these fanatics have on such a strategic country. There's a book here, for anyone brave enough to do it. Read the full article at: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/10/international/asia/10JIHA.html?searchpv=nytToday

I was driving down the highway to work this morning and most of the radio stations did a memorial national anthem at the same time the Sept 11 attacks took place just 3 months ago. It's hard to believe that 3 months have gone by. As Bush spoke on the radio at a service, I was passing by the exact spot where I first heard the news as he was saying "we will all remember where we were on that day." Where were you? How did you hear the news? How has your life changed since then? How has it affected your world?

Has anyone else heard this? I got it in an email from a friend, yesterday: *The extended bin Laden family is building a trade center in Lebanon that's an image of one of the twin towers.* If this is the case, what a horrific way to memorialize it.

The WTC was attacked at 2AM Hawaiian time. I was awakened the next morning (about 5 hours later) with the news and turned on the television. I still can't (or don't want to) believe the devastation it unleashed. I still look at the images on TV. My mind recoils from watching, but I know I must not forget, so I watch. I can see the buildings falling down even with my eyes open.

It has affected my world by making a routine inter-island commute into a 4 hours ordeal. Two hours on each end to have all things gone through carefully, walking around in a seemingly armed camp surrounded by rifles at the ready National Guard Troops. We also are forbidden fishing from the breakwaters, and the piers are sealed off by customs inspectors. Hawaii is considered a war zone, so we are also partolled by gunships - both US Navy and Coast Guard. When we went to the summit of Kilauea for Thanksgiving dinner, we noted that the Kilauea Military Rest Camp there hand armed guards where none had existed before, and a heavy metal gate had been installed across each entrance. I think we will never be the same again. Our childhood has been taken away from us, and we must be adults like all the rest of the world has had to be for so long. My delight is the determined comradship I find in my friends who were not all that friendly before. The "we take care of our own" attitude has been replaced by "you AR our own." I hope that part lasts.

This is very strange. I wish I knew what factory was at the bottom of the picture. No, I don't believe it.... http://www2.justnet.ne.jp/~kiti/Ufo/wtc/wtc.htm

Tom Clancy on why the CIA didn't catch the 9-11 terrorists O'REILLY: Was there a reason that Turner and Carter -- was their a reason why Turner and Carter wanted a weaker [CIA]? CLANCY: It's politically correct. O'REILLY: Simple as that? CLANCY: I think so. The political left is, you know, they deal in symbols rather than reality. The general difference between conservatives and liberals is liberals like pretty pictures and conservatives like to build bridges that people can drive across. And conservatives are indeed conservative because if the bridge falls down, people die. Where as the liberals figure, oh, we can always build a nice memorial to them and make people forget it happened and it was our fault. They're very good at making people forget it was their fault, all right. The CIA was gutted by people on the political left who don't like intelligence operations, and as a result of that, as an indirect result of that, we've lost 5,000 citizens last week.

The Tape http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/ret.bin.laden.videotape/ CNN has posted a transcript in pdf format http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2001/US/12/13/transcript/binladentape.pdf David Kline (dkline) Thu Dec 13 '01 (09:20) 32 lines Yep, I just saw the Bin Laden tape and it is unbelievable. The man is toast. No doubt he did it (although there will always be 250 people in the world who think the tape is doctored or whatever). And no doubt his callous admissions and disregard for others will hurt his image greatly. Especially his laughter. People hate smug assholes, and OBL is one. Not a lot of things are truly "chilling" to me. This tape was. I was also interested to notice the same sort of ass-kissing by OBL subordinates that I remember from my old political days. Only in this case, it was OBL's henchment vying with each other for the most vivid or predictive or praiseworthy (of OBL) dreams that they were pretending to have had. These schmucks were all claiming had these vivid dreams which were all just a bit too pat and synchronous to real-world events for my taste. And they were competing with each other to tell comrade Bin Laden about the praiseworthy meaning of their dreams. What pathetic fucks. I'll tell you what, though. It confirms my sense that OBL was laughing at us during the bombing-only phase of our campaign. Bombing was what they expected us to do. They did not expect us to get on the ground and help the Northern Alliance. And they certainly did not expect that cooperation would lead to the total military collapse of the Taliban in 4 weeks. So who's laughing now, Bin Laudenam? I'll tell you, though, I feel sorry for anyone watching this tape who lost family or loved ones in 9/11. It must be so hurtful to see a low-life like OBL laughing at the murder of innocents. God. The transcript in html http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/13/tape.transcript/ and it is in real video at http://video.c-span.org:8080/ramgen/fdrive/ter121301_osama.rm?mode=compact Sulayman ((Abu Guaith)): ... So I went back to the Shaykh (meaning UBL) who was sitting in a room with 50 to 60 people. I tried to tell him about what I saw, but he made gesture with his hands, meaning: "I know, I know�" UBL: He did not know about the operation. What an amazing tape excerpt -- seen at the CNN site. Questions: CNN said it was not taped in chronological order, rather than saying the tape had been edited/dubbed. Strange. Is that just spin? It would have had to have been edited by someone to be out of order, right? Odd. I think the stakes are too high to fake a tape like this. I think it is real, and chilling. I wonder what made them delay releasing it. The propaganda value for those in the Western world who were uneasy about proof is unmistakable. I am very curious how this will play in the Pakistani press and on al-Jezeera tv. I wish we had an arabic speaker who could translate/paraphrase what the commentary and lead-ins are like there. Or a good arabic media critique site (in english) for the same purpose. David Kline (dkline) Thu Dec 13 '01 (11:27) 66 lines > One thing that struck me was the way the visiting "Saudi cleric" kept > > saying "thanks be to Allah...by the grace of Allah" in practically every > other sentence, while UBL smiled in a way that made me think he finds > other people's devotion to Allah amusing and useful, but that it's not > something he particularly shares. Thank you, Jake. That's a very good point -- and very typical behavior for the top leader of a movement that also functions like a personality cult. The henchmen kiss ass. The leader starts believing the worshipful. And he starts looking down at his henchmen who then worship him even more. Anyway, a few points: 1) WHEN THE TAPE WAS MADE? The Tape was made probably the same day that US chopper lost a wheel and was abandoned (or shot down). Anyone remember what day that was? It was right around the mid-October time of the special forces PR raid. Anyway, this was also the time when US fortunes in Afghanistan looked their bleakest. It seemed all we were doing was bombing Red Cross hospitals and everyone talked about how we'd under-estimated the strength of the Taliban. Even I was a bit demoralized by our lack of progress, and kept wishing we'd just put some SF guys on the ground with the NA and stop all this futile if not counter-productive bombing. The point being, the tape was shot when it appeared to Bin Laden that the US was doing exactly as he expected -- i.e., come in and bomb from a safe height, but not get our boots dirty with on-the-grouned fighting. So he was feeling supremely confident in his ultimate and total success, probably more confident than at any time before or since. 2) WHY THE TAPE WAS MADE? We look for savvy thinking, for conspiratorial 3-steps-ahead planning, in the behavior of Osama bin Laden. But the fact is he was simply suffering from great hubris at the time (see my point #1 above), and allowed the local hosts of that dinner party (which was probably a small victory dinner for the loss of America's first helicopter in the war) to shoot a little home video souvenir. I'm telling you: Osama Bin Laden was convinced at that time that he had won -- he had killed Massoud, destroyed the WTC, frustrated the bombing-only American war effort, sparked mass protests in a dozen Muslim capitals, won the hearts of Al-Jazeera viewers, and made even some in Washington think he could never be defeated. As a result, OBL simply no longer was as concerned with security. He was sure no enemy would ever even set foot in that house to find the tape in the fist place. 3) IMPACT OF THE TAPE There will always be those few who think the tape was faked, or who don't care and support Bin Laden anyway. But based on my knowledge of how Afghans think first of all, and to a lesser extent how Pakistanis and other Muslims think, I am absolutely convinced that this tape will seal the political doom of OPsama Bin Laden and his Jihadist movement. Not that there won't be other terrorists, not that even remnants of Al Queda will survive and cause trouble down the road. But Osama bin Laden no longer looks like Robin Hood. He has publicly admitted his guilt to any reasonable person -- and 90% of Muslims are reasonable people. But by itself, that would not be enough to detroy his mystique and the allure of his movement. When combined with two added factors, though -- 1) his total rejection by and defeat at the hands of Muslim Afghans; and 2) his smug complacency and disdain for others (people DESPISE hubris like that) -- Bin Laden's admitted guilt on this tape will definitely seal his doom. This tape will be believed. It will be talked about. And heads will nod throughout as the lessons of arrogance and hubris and fanaticism are debated throughout the Muslim world. I think one reason Washington was hesitant to release the tape at first was OBL's reading of his (bad) poetry. They may have feared that a poem calling on the Muslim masses to "storm the forts" would hurt us. Thankfully, those worries were put aside. http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/22/ret.retaliation.facts/index.html WBUR prints synopses of A-J, but a day later, so we should see it tomorrow. http://www.wbur.org/special/specialcoverage/feature_aljaz.asp

This is Aljazeera's account today from the above url cited by David Kline.

Bin Laden: Attackers Knew About The Operation Just Before They Boarded The Planes The Pentagon released Thursday a video that it says implicates Osama Bin Laden in the 11 September attacks on New York and the Pentagon. The 40-minute recording is of very poor audio and visual quality. The tape was recorded on November 9 in Kandahar, Afghanistan. US officials disclosed they found the videotape in a private residence in Jalalabad. According to the CNN, Bin Laden and the other three men seated with him make numerous references to various al Qaeda members having dreams of planes hitting tall buildings at least a year before the attacks. Speaking of the hijackers, bin Laden states, "They were trained and we did not reveal the operation to them until they are there and just before they boarded the planes." Additionally, he had turned on his radio in advance to listen to coverage of the attacks and that he had underestimated the damage that would be inflicted on the World Trade Center. Bin Laden is quoted as saying: "We calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower." This comment referred to hijacked airliners, which hit and destroyed the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York. "We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all," he added. http://www.wbur.org/special/specialcoverage/feature_aljaz.asp

I LIKE DAVID KLINE. He says things I would not dare but think, anyway! I refuse to offend my eyes by looking at that man. I watched to be informed but that is all. Is there doubt? Not even for the criminally insane person that he is!

Mutual. David Kline hits home with his poignant observations, based on years in Afghanistan.

Indeed. I can feel the intensity of David Kline's anguish and love for Afghanistan in his eloquence. Thanks, Terry, for your continuing posts of his comments. I still worry about that idiot who called Art Bell last night suggesting OBL be set free because we do not punish the criminally insane. Art cut him off, and the following phone calls with creative ways to deal with a captured live OBL gave me much comfort. We have developed a wry sense of the ridiculous when dealing with the actuality of the current war, but are we angry? committed? determined? You'd better believe it!

Hi all I am wondering if it might be better to set a trap for bin Laden with bait of some sort to lure him out. I am not sure how you would do this but it is obvious to me that bin Laden will not be caught in a specific place if he does not to be. Because everyone is climbing a tree called Afghanistan, he may have quietly climbed a tree called Pakistan or Kazakhstan or something like that. I also wonder if assuming Bush decides to move into Somalia and North Korea, if the world coalition will fragment. Even your staunchest ally Britain is rumbling in world media about setting limits as to how far they are prepared to go. I think you need the UN's permission before you set foot on the soil of any other country. Many think America can gain those countries co-operation by offering aid. I urge extreme caution in any decision to expand the war for several reasons: 1)Prove their connections to terrorism 2)Accept that there are more peaceful alternatives to sanctions or military movements in countries like North Korea and Somalia. Humanitarian aid to the former may encourage the former to be more open and possibly allow a thawing of international relations with the North. 3)Another round of diplomacy to reassure key players like the Russians, your European allies and Britain. 4)Don't send the CIA to play the role of the agitator in countries that are preoccupied with internal problems unless the Federal government is prepared to accept some responsibility for wrong doings. 5)Arabs and Muslims have the jitters at the moment over the Palestinian question. Which suggests to me that some "unthinkable" things will have to be done to calm them down and stop an escalation of the war. Rob

We've captured Tora Bora but no Osama. David Kline (dkline) Tue Dec 18 '01 (13:55) 23 lines Wait a minute ... you mean there are people here who really believe that the Pakistani border could be sealed tight if only we really wanted to -- and that maybe we don't really want to? Un . . . believable! Not all the world is as secure as a Safeway parking lot, you know. I have spent a good deal of time in those Tora Bora mountains, and crossed that border several times whilst on the run from Russian special forces units and the Pakistani military and intelligence services. Plus I covered the heroin traffic in that region, and I recall how once when the Pakistani government wanted to meet with tribal leaders, they only way they could get them to sit down and talk was to bring in artillery. What's rally happening here, I suspect, is that naive conspiracy-mongering at work here again. You know, the notion of the United States as all-knowing and all-powerful and able to control all events in the world as it chooses. Makes for real good Chomsky, to be sure. But it hardly conforms to the way the real world works. Just ask the Vietnamese. Or Osama bin Laden.

From today's New York Times report on the swearing in of Hamid Karzai: "Adding to the optimism and calm that pervaded the capital today was the show of unity by two Afghan military commanders who had been expected to snub the ceremony: General Rashid Dostrum ... and Gen. Ismail Khan." The most moving part of the ceremony, said the Times, was when the Belgian foreign minister Louis Michel made areference to slain Alliance leader Massoud Ahmed Shah that "captured the combination of grief, exhaustion and aching hope" that Afghans are feeling today. "I am sure," Michel said, "that Mr. Massoud is proud of his nation today." According to the Times, "That single sentence sent tears rolling down scores of weathered, wrinkled and scarred cheeks in the audience." Really wonderful. And for me as an interested outside observer, especially so. I've literally waited 22 years for this day - David Kline

And Kline adds this: There's certainly cause for hope and optimism re: Afghanistan, but it's also important to be aware of the dangers ahead as well. I can think of many mistakes that the new government could make that would jeopardize Afghan peace and unity: 1) Karzai must not get involved in another muddle with the US (such as the one over amnesty for Mullah Omar) thaty makes him look like a US puppet. 2) Karzai must firmly suppress by armed force if necessary any warlordism or lawlessness or resistance to the government -- at least from middle- or lower-level military, political, religious or tribal figures. 3) But Karzai must never use suppressive methods (an Afghan tendency) against high-level military, political, religious or tribal dissenters. Always compromise should be sought; negotiations conducted. The above are just three things to worry about. I can think of many more potential roadblocks ahead that Karzai will need to skillfully negotiate. Hopefully he can do it. But it's not at all certain he can.

David Kline: I have waited (I kid you not) 22 years for this day! -- but even apart from my personal attachment to that country I do believe that something of great import for the world is now taking place in Afghanistan. You cannot push a people through much more suffering and disaster than that which the the Afghans have experienced in recent years, yet now we are witness to a rebirth of hope that many though impossible. Will it succeed? We'll soon know. But the subtext for this inauguration ceremony, as Barb suggests, is really the question of whether hope and rebirth is possible for the larger world as a whole. If the Afghans can save themselves, after all, then maybe we can, too.

Poor Afghanistan. I truly hope those people can live in peace and not become a global battlefield. There is so much to hope for, now...!

Mr. John Reid the shoe bomber really is part Jamaican apparently a small time criminal who converted to Islam while in prison. Details here: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001570016-2001595137,00.html That article links him to Zacarias Moussaoui, the "20th hijacker". What next? Body cavity bombs?

It does not take much plastique as far as I know. Scary, indeed! When will the dental record become necessary, too?!

Swiss-led campaign to rebuild the destroyed Bamiyan Buddhas: http://www.msnbc.com/news/661589.asp http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011121/sc/attack_afghan_statues_dc_1.html http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/18/wbud18.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/11/18/ixhomer.html More on what's been lost/missing in Afghanistan: http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2001%2F11%2F23%2Fwkab223.xml http://www.dallasnews.com/science/STORY.ea3e5c965f.b0.af.0.a4.6e84a.html http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20011112/taliban.html

A number of artifacts are being recovered from the WTC site: http://www.nydailynews.com/2001-11-15/News_and_Views/City_Beat/a-132149.asp

http://www.timesofindia.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=380255744 Indo-Pak war raging in cyberspace SIDDHARTH SRIVASTAVA TIMES NEWS NETWORK NEW DELHI: Pakistani hackers have made several attempts to hack into Indian sites--especially those containing data on sensitive information relating to nuclear test management--to access sensitive information related to the country's security, said sources in the Intelligence Bureau. The sites targetted include those of Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research (IGCAR), the Nuclear Science Centre (NSC) and the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC). Although these three sites have been repeatedly hacked in the past, according to IB officials, the recent attempts were aimed at accessing crucial data secured under severely firewalled servers. "It is quite apparent that the new breed of hackers are much more equipped and trained," say sources in the IB. Officials also say that there could have been at least a couple of successful attempts to break the codes of the sites. "There have been as many as seven attempts to hack into the BARC data since the attack on Indian Parliament on December 13. We are also on the lookout for spy programs that might have been installed," says an official. The IB has already written to the defence and the home ministry about the issue. The two ministries have, in turn, sought the help of cyber security firms to shore up the sites. The hackers, according to officials, may be on the payroll of Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence. There has been a history of infiltration into Indian sites with sensitive information by Pakistani hackers. The first infiltration into BARC was in 1998, when it was hacked by three members of Milworm, a Pakistan-based hacker group. Ever since, BARC servers have been favourite targets of Pakistani hackers. "This year alone, at least one spy program has been detected in a BARC mail server," says an official. The first intrusion into IGCAR was reported in January last year when G-Force, a Pakistani hacker group, defaced its main server. Subsequently, other servers in IGCAR have been repeatedly hacked by G-Force. Indian intelligence officials have identified one hacker as Rsnake, who is said to have copied the master database from IGCAR and provided some data to Pakistani intelligence as proof of his access. The ISI, in turn, has realised the importance of hackers after BARC was hacked in 1998. The first Pakistani hacker group-Pakistani Hackers Club-was formed by two 'hacktivists' who used the pseudonyms DoctorNuker and Mr Sweet. DoctorNuker took to hacking when he was a computer science student at Karachi University. Along with fellow hacker Dizasta (real name: Fahad Shamshek Khan), he started hacking into critical Indian and US servers. DoctorNuker, say IB officials, was the first hacker whose skills were recognised by the ISI and under the latter's directives, focused on critical Indian government servers (especially those relating to nuclear and atomic establishments). But sources say the most active Pakistani hacker in the recent past has been a person impersonating as Rsnake, who started hacking from the Netherlands where he was working with a group of portals. Inspired by DoctorNuker, he started the hacker group G-Force from Holland. The ISI has now got him to Pakistan to coordinate other hackers targeting Indian websites, claim IB officials.

Its all The Same,War, not good for any one

There never HAS been a "good" war. However, if our ancestors had not fought for your right to say what you said, perhaps you would not have the right to do so. Soem causes have to be bought more preciously than others. Or would you rather be speaking German or Japanese, now? Alas, war is not a simple case of right or wrong when there are two sides.

(739 - Paul Terry Walhus (terry)I heard a blockbuster rumor today. Basically, there is a French book being published which recounts the FBI's investigation of Osama Bin Laden and his cohorts. which says that they were hot on the trail of all of the terorists and were then pulled off the case by the State Department just before 9/11. Reportedly, the chief of the FBI investigation quit over the interference from the State Department. *************************** CNN AMERICAN MORNING WITH PAULA ZAHN Explosive New Book Published in France Alleges that U.S. Was in Negotiations to Do a Deal with Taliban Aired January 8, 2002 - 07:34 ET - CNN January 8, 2002 - 07:34 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Time to check in with ambassador-in- residence, Richard Butler, this morning. An explosive new book published in France al leges that the United States was in negotiations to do a deal with the Taliban for an oil pipeline in Afghanistan. Joining us right now is Richard Butler to shed some light on this new book. He is the former chief U.N. weapons inspector. He is now on the Council on Foreign Relations and our own ambassador-in- residence -- good morning. RICHARD BUTLER, FMR. U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula. ZAHN: Boy, if any of these charges are true... BUTLER: If... ZAHN: ... this... BUTLER: Yes. ZAHN: ... is really big news. BUTLER: I agree. ZAHN: Start off with what your understanding is of what is in this book -- the most explosive charge. BUTLER: The most explosive charge, Paula, is that the Bush administration -- the present one, just shortly after assuming office slowed down FBI investigations of al Qaeda and terrorism in Afghanistan in order to do a deal with the Taliban on oil -- an oil pipeline across Afghanistan. ZAHN: And this book points out that the FBI's deputy director, John O'Neill, actually resigned because he felt the U.S. administration was obstructing... BUTLER: A proper... ZAHN: ... the prosecution of terrorism. BUTLER: Yes, yes, a proper intelligence investigation of terrorism. Now, you said if, and I affirmed that in responding to you. We have to be careful here. These are allegations. They're worth airing and talking about, because of their gravity. We don't know if they are correct. But I believe they should be investigated, because Central Asian oil, as we were discussing yesterday, is potentially so important. And all prior attempts to have a pipeline had to be done through Russia. It had to be negotiated with Russia. Now, if there is to be a pipeline through Afghanistan, obviating the need to deal with Russia, it would also cost less than half of what a pipeline through Russia would cost. So financially and politically, there's a big prize to be had. A pipeline through Afghanistan down to the Pakistan coast would bring out that Central Asian oil easier and more cheaply. ZAHN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as you spoke about this yesterday, we almost immediately got a call from "The New York Times." BUTLER: Right. ZAHN: They want you to write an op-ed piece on this over the weekend. BUTLER: Right, and which I will do. ZAHN: But let's come back to this whole issue of what John O'Neill, this FBI agent... BUTLER: Right. ZAHN: ... apparently told the authors of this book. He is alleging that -- what -- the U.S. government was trying to protect U.S. oil interests? And at the same time, shut off the investigation of terrorism to allow for that to happen? BUTLER: That's the allegation that instead of prosecuting properly an investigation of terrorism, which has its home in Afghanistan as we now know, or one of its main homes, that was shut down or slowed down in order to pursue oil interests with the Taliban. The people who we have now bombed out of existence, and this not many months ago. The book says that the negotiators said to the Taliban, you have a choice. You have a carpet of gold, meaning an oil deal, or a carpet of bombs. That's what the book alleges. ZAHN: Well, I know you're going to be doing your own independent homework on this... BUTLER: Yes. ZAHN: ... to see if you can confirm any of this. Let's move on to the whole issue of Iraq. The deputy defense secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, at one time was considered one of those voices within the administration... For the complete transcript, go to the following URL: http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0201/08/ltm.05.html ************************ U.S. Taliban Policy influenced by Oil by Julio Godoy Inter Press Service English News Wire, 16 November 2001 Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG), globalresearch.ca 17 November 2001 A new book by two French intelligence analysts claims that at the behest of U.S. oil companies, the Bush administration initially blocked FBI investigations into terrorism, while it bargained with the Taliban for the delivery of Osama bin Laden in exchange for political recognition and economic aid. In the book "Bin Laden, la verite interdite" ("Bin Laden, the forbidden truth"), which hit bookshelves in Paris yesterday, the authors, Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie, claim that FBI deputy director John O'Neill resigned in July to protest the policy. Brisard claims O'Neill told him that "the main obstacles to investigate Islamic terrorism were U.S. oil corporate interests and the role played by Saudi Arabia." The authors say the U.S. government's main objective in Afghanistan was to consolidate the position of the Taliban regime and thereby obtain access to the oil and gas reserves in Central Asia. They say that until August, the U.S. government saw the Taliban regime "as a source of stability in Central Asia that would enable the construction of an oil pipeline across Central Asia," from the rich oilfields in Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Kazakhstan, through Afghanistan and Pakistan, to the Indian Ocean. Until now, says the book, "the oil and gas reserves of Central Asia have been controlled by Russia. The Bush government wanted to change all that." But confronted with the Taliban's refusal to accept U.S. conditions, "this rationale of energy security changed into a military one," the authors claim. "At one moment during the negotiations, the U.S. representatives told the Taliban, either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs," Brisard said in an interview in Paris. According to the book, the Bush administration began to negotiate with the Taliban shortly after taking power in January. U.S. and Taliban diplomatic representatives met several times in February in Washington, Berlin and Islamabad. To burnish their image in the United States, the Taliban even hired a PR representative in Washington, Laila Helms. The authors say that Helms was well-versed in the arcana of U.S. intelligence agencies because her uncle, Richard Helms, is a former director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). The last meeting between U.S. and Taliban representatives took place in August, five weeks before the attacks on New York and Washington, the analysts maintain. On that occasion, Christina Rocca, at the time head of Central Asian affairs for the State Department, met the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan in Islamabad. Brisard and Dasquie have long experience in intelligence analysis. Brisard was until the late 1990s director of economic analysis and strategy for Vivendi, a French company. He also worked for French intelligence, and wrote a report in 1997 on the now notorious al Qaeda network headed by bin Laden. Dasquie is an investigative journalist and publisher of Intelligence Online, a respected newsletter on diplomacy, economic analysis and strategy, available on the Internet. Brisard and Dasquie also note that Bush and his closest aides have strong ties to the oil industry. Bush's family made their money from Texas oil. Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, and the Secretaries of Commerce and Energy, Donald Evans and Stanley Abraham, have all worked for U.S. oil companies. Until the end of last year, Cheney was the CEO of Halliburton, a company that provides services to the oil industry. From 1991 to 2000, Rice was a manager for Chevron. Evans and Abraham worked for Tom Brown, Inc., another oil company. Besides the secret negotiations held between Washington and Kabul, the book examines the role played by Saudi Arabia in fostering Islamic fundamentalism, the personality of bin Laden, and the networks that the Saudi dissident built to finance his activities. Brisard and Dasquie contest the U.S. government's claim that it had been seeking to try bin Laden since the attacks on U.S. embassies in Africa in 1998. "Actually," Dasquie says, "the first state to officially prosecute bin Laden was Libya, on the charges of terrorism." "Bin Laden wanted to settle in Libya in the early 1990s, but was hindered by the government of Muammar Qaddafi," Dasquie claims. "Enraged by Libya's refusal, bin Laden organized attacks inside Libya, including assassination attempts against Qaddafi." Dasquie also discusses the role of the Islamic Fighting Group (IFG), reputedly the most powerful Libyan dissident organization, based in London, and directly linked with bin Laden. "Qaddafi even asked that Western police institutions, such as Interpol, pursue the IFG and bin Laden, but never obtained cooperation," Dasquie says. "Until today, members of IFG openly live in London." The book confirms earlier reports that the U.S. government worked closely with the United Nations during the negotiat ons with the Taliban. "Several meetings took place this year, under the arbitration of Francesc Vendrell, personal representative of U.N. Secretary- General Kofi Annan, to discuss the situation in Afghanistan," say the authors. "Representatives of the U.S. government and Russia, and the six countries that border with Afghanistan, were present at these meetings," it says. "Sometimes, representatives of the Taliban also sat around the table." These meetings, also called "6+2" because of the number of states (six neighbors plus U.S. and Russia) involved, have been confirmed by Naif Naik, former Pakistani Minister for Foreign Affairs. In a French television interview two weeks ago, Naik said during a "6+2" meeting in Berlin in July, the discussions focused on "the formation of a government of national unity. If the Taliban had accepted this coalition, they would have immediately received international economic aid." "And the pipelines from Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan would have come," he added. Naik also claimed that Tom Simons, the U.S. representative at these meetings, openly threatened the Taliban and Pakistan. "Simons said, 'either the Taliban behave as they ought to, or Pakistan convinces them to do so, or we will use another option'. The words Simons used were 'a military operation'," Naik claimed. Copyright IPS, 2001. For fair use only The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/GOD111A ************************************ The Irish Times Monday, November 19, 2001 US efforts to make peace summed up by 'oil' A new book alleges years of attempts to arrest Osama bin Laden being blocked by the US , one of the authors tells Lara Marlowe ANALYSIS: The fate of John O'Neill, the Irish-American FBI agent who for years led US investigations into Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, is the most chilling revelation in the book Bin Laden: The Hidden Truth, published in Paris this week. O'Neill investigated the bombings of the World Trade Centre in 1993, a US base in Saudi Arabia in 1996, the US embassies in Nairobi and Dar-Es-Salaam in 1998, and the USS Cole last year. Jean-Charles Brisard, who wrote a report on bin Laden's finances for the French intelligence agency DST and is co-author of Hidden Truth, met O'Neill several times last summer. He complained bitterly that the US State Department - and behind it the oil lobby who make up President Bush's entourage - blocked attempts to prove bin Laden's guilt. The US ambassador to Yemen, Ms Barbara Bodine, forbade O'Neill and his team of so- called Rambos (as the Yemeni authorities called them) from entering Yemen. In August 2001, O'Neill resigned in frustration and took up a new job as head of security at the World Trade Centre. He died in the September 11th attack. Brisard and his co-author Guillaume Dasqui�, the editor of Intelligence Online, say their book is a tribute to O'Neill. The FBI agent had told Brisard: "All the answers, everything needed to dismantle Osama bin Laden's organisation, can be found in Saudi Arabia." But US diplomats shrank from offending the Saudi royal family. O'Neill went to Saudi Arabia after 19 US servicemen died in the bombing of a military installation in Dhahran in June 1996. Saudi officials interrogated the suspects, declared them guilty and executed them - without letting the FBI talk to them. "They were reduced to the role of forensic scientists, collecting material evidence on the bomb site," Brisard says. O'Neill said there was clear evidence in Yemen of bin Laden's guilt in the bombing of the USS Cole \in which 17 US servicemen died\, but that the State Department prevented him from getting it." Brisard and Dasqui� discovered that the first country to issue an international arrest warrant against bin Laden was not the US, but Moamar Gadafy's Libya, in March 1998. The confidential notice, published for the first time in their book, was sent by the Libyan interior ministry to Interpol on March 16th, 1998, and accuses bin Laden of murdering two German intelligence agents, Silvan Becker and his wife, in Libya in 1994. Bin Laden supported a fundamentalist group called al-Muqatila, made up of Libyans who had fought with him against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Al-Muqatila wanted to assassinate Gadafy, whom it considered an infidel. According to the former MI5 agent David Shayler, British intelligence - also in league with al-Muqatila - tried to assassinate Gadafy in November 1996. It was because of British collaboration with al-Muqatila that the Interpol warrant was ignored, Brisard says. Since September 11th, al-Muqatila has been placed on President Bush's list of "terrorist groups". The central thesis of Brisard and Dasqui�'s book is sure to join the annals of 21st century conspiracy theories. The writers document negotiations between the Bush administration and the Taliban between February and August of this year. Less convincingly, they conjecture that the September 11th suicide attacks were the result of the failure of those negotiations. The chief motivation behind US attempts to make peace with the Taliban can be summed up in one word: oil. The former Soviet republics of Central Asia - Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and especially "the new Kuwait", Kazakhstan - have vast oil and gas reserves. But Russia has refused to allow the US to extract it through Russian pipelines and Iran is considered a dangerous route. That left Afghanistan. The US oil company Chevron - where Mr Bush's National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice was a director throughout the 1990s - is deeply involved in Kazakhstan. In 1995, another US company, Unocal (formerly Union Oil Company of California) signed a contract to export $8 billion worth of natural gas through a $3 billion pipeline which would go from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan. The authors recall how the State Department applauded the Taliban takeover in September 1996, five months after a US assistant secretary of state warned "economic opportunities will be missed" if political stability was not restored in Afghanistan. Laila Helms, the part Afghan niece of the former CIA director and former US ambassador to Tehran Richard Helms, is described as the Mata-Hari of US-Taliban negotiations. Ms Helms brought Sayed Rahmatullah Hashimi, an adviser to Mullah Omar, to Washington for five days in March 2001 - after the Taliban had destroyed the ancient Buddhas of Bamiyan. Hashimi met the directorate of Central Intelligence at the CIA and the Bureau of Intelligence and Research at the State Department. In negotiations which continued until July, the US then took a more discreet position, letting the UN envoy Francesc Vendrell do most of the work and appointing a former US ambassador to Pakistan, Thomas Simons, to represent the US at informal meetings in Berlin. The last direct US contact with the Taliban was on August 2nd, 2001, when Christina Rocca, the director of Asian affairs at the State Department, met the Taliban ambassador in Islamabad. Ms Rocca was previously in charge of contacts with Islamist guerrilla groups at the CIA, where in the 1980s, she oversaw the delivery of Stinger missiles to Afghan mujaheddin. Last February, the Taliban had indicated it might be willing to hand over bin Laden, but by June, according to Brisard and Dasqui�, the US began considering military action. "The US thought they could 'decouple' Osama bin Laden from the Taliban," Brisard says. "What they did not understand was that without bin Laden, the Taliban regime wouldn't have existed." By dispatching Francesc Vendrell to see the exiled King Zaher Shah in Rome and raising the threat of military action, Washington "backed the Taliban into a corner", the authors say. For the Taliban - assuming its leadership had advance knowledge of the suicide attacks - September 11th was a sort of pre-emptive strike. Brisard and Dasqui� claim a significant part of the Saudi royal family supports bin Laden. "Saudi Arabia has always protected bin Laden - or protected itself from him," says Brisard. He points out that attacks inside the kingdom targeted US interests, never the Saudis. Khalid bin Mahfouz is the former chairman of the kingdom's biggest bank, the National Commercial Bank, who, with 10 family members received Irish citizenship in December 1990. Brisard and Dasqui� call him "the banker of terror". The 73-year-old Mahfouz is now under house arrest in the Saudi resort of Taif, accused by the FBI and CIA of having diverted $2 billion to Islamic charities that helped bin Laden. http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/world/2001/1119/wor8.htm ************************** Reviews of "Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth": http://serendipity.magnet.ch/wot/bl_tft.htm The Australian: Bin Laden book banned in Switzerland at the request of one of bin Laden's half brothers: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,3514962^1702,00.html Daily Mail&Guardian: The war in Afghanistan is a means to another end: http://www.mg.co.za/mg/za/archive/2001dec/features/04dec-war.html

Wow, that was like a big spoiler alert after the text bomb. I'm glad Mahfouz is under arrest We need to know the truth of the events leading up to September 11 so is this a piece of the puzzle, the whole puzzle, or is it a distortion. Obviously Paula Zahn thinks it's worthy of probing, let's see where this story goes.

The war will end in 2008, now we know. Pentagon warns of war lasting six years By David Wastell in Washington (Filed: 13/01/2002) AMERICAN military chiefs believe that the global war against terrorism will last at least six years. Pentagon officials are being advised to draw up budgets and plans to buy new equipment on the assumption that the struggle against al-Qa'eda and other international terrorist groups will endure until 2008, and perhaps even longer. " continued at http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$MO5SHXQAAECK5QFIQMGSFF4AVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2002/01/13/wtal213.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/01/13/ixnewstop.html

Happy Us. We KNOW when the war will end. How very peculiar!

More from the same article: Donald Rumsfeld, the defence secretary, has won President Bush's backing for a sharp increase in military spending. Extra money will be allocated for more of the weapons that have proved useful in Afghanistan, such as unmanned surveillance and attack aircraft. The increased spending will continue whether or not Osama bin Laden is found soon. It follows signs that the Pentagon is wearying of the intense public interest in the hunt for the al-Qa'eda leader, and Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader. John McCain, a senator and former chairman of the armed services committee, said on his return from a trip to the Afghan region that he felt frustrated that bin Laden was still at large. He added, however: "He's on the run now. I think he's a threat so long as he's alive, but it's a far different scenario than the one where he had sanctuary and was able to operate with a financial network and a network of terrorists throughout the world." After four weeks in which the Pentagon and the media were constantly on tenterhooks for the imminent capture of bin Laden, a change of tack ordered by Mr Rumsfeld has become evident. Officials say that they will no longer even hint at where they think he might be. There have also been reports of clashes between the Pentagon and the CIA over the quality of intelligence emanating from Afghanistan. Some military officials feared there was a "missed opportunity" when the Pentagon ordered US Central Command to rely on local Afghan forces rather than US troops to try to intercept and capture bin Laden after the assault on al-Qa'eda's Tora Bora mountain hideouts. Not only did bin Laden apparently escape, but so have a series of Taliban leaders over the past two weeks, almost certainly including Mullah Omar, raising questions about the competence or possible corruption of the Afghan forces. Although no politician is yet prepared to risk publicly differing with Mr Bush over the administration's handling of the war, some advisers fear that public patience over the failure to catch bin Laden will evaporate if the hunt drags on too long - or if there is a fresh terrorist attack on the US.

Osama bin Laden may be on the verge of winning a round, the Saudis are said to be on the verge of asking the Americans to leave Saudi Arabia: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64536-2002Jan17.html This was Bin Laden and Al Quaeda's aim, and it will vindicate Bin Laden to the Islamic world. I hate to see it take this turn. More later as I learn more.

US Envoy Plays Down Reports of Strains with Saudi January 18, 2002 09:34 AM ET Email this article Printer friendly version RIYADH (Reuters) - A senior U.S. envoy played down U.S. media reports of tensions with Saudi Arabia over the presence of American troops in the kingdom, an Arabic newspaper reported on Friday. "I did not come to the kingdom with any demand, instead I came as an ally and a friend," U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Lincoln Bloomfield told the London-based daily Al-Hayat. "Our cooperation is very important and is not only about (fighting) the terrorist al Qaeda organization but also for the sake of long-term regional security," he said. The New York Times reported this week that senior officials in Congress and at the Pentagon had called for the pullout of U.S. forces from Saudi Arabia because of what they see as its tepid support for the U.S. war on terrorism and restrictions on U.S. military operations. Bloomfield said he had not discussed with Saudi officials the presence of U.S. troops at a Saudi air base, which an influential U.S. senator has said may have to end because of restrictions imposed on them by Saudi Arabia.

David Kline (dkline) Thu Jan 24 '02 (10:44) 63 lines I had lunch yesterday with the nephew of the legendary Afghan hero Abdul Haq, and it was rather interesting to hear his views on issues that have something to do with this discussion. First, a bit of background. Khushal Arsala is the son of Abdul Haq's brother. During the anti-Soviet war, the two brothers fought side by side and promised each other that if either died, the other would raise the deceassed's children as if they were his own. And that's what happenned -- Abdul Haq raised Arsala and his siblings as if they were his own kids. So as you might imagine, Arsala has enormous love and hero worship of Abdul Haq, who as you might recall was captured and executed by the Taliban only a few weeks before a sufficient critical mass of popular revolt started the Taliban crumbling. A sad irony, indeed. Anyway, Arsala spoke to two issues that have been very controversial here in the USA: the treatment of Guantanamo prisoners, and the bombing campaign in Afghanistan. On the first issue -- treatment of prisoners -- he said he could understand America's dilemma vis. a vis. the Geneva conventions and other legal issues. He had no real suggestions to offer. But he did want to stress, "in case you Americans forget," that by and large the people detained in Guantanamo are "beyond the pale" of anything "Americans are used to facing." They are relentless, he said, and "they will kill you at the first chance. You Americans are not used to people like this, people with no standard of decency and humanity such as you try to have." I guess his point was to be sympathetic to our dilemma, but to also remind us that we are afflicted with akind of naivete and "sense of fair play" that while important for us to maintain, may blind us to the utter and implacable hatred of our enemies. Point No. 2 concerned the bombing. Like his uncle Abdul Haq, Arsala opposed the US bombing campaign in Afghanistan. He totally supported our special forces teams working with the Northern Alliance and other opposition forces to oust the Taliban, but he felt much of the bombing, at least, did not serve to aid that effort but merely alienated some of the population owing to the civilian casualties that resulted. What about the continued bombing of suspected Al Queda positions in Paktia province? He said that we definitely had to go in there and kill those people, but by employing bombing, we ended up killing too many innocent civilians when ground action would accomplish the job without such civilian losses. Overall, though, he said that Afghans today overwhelmingly welcome the US presence in the country, but that this could change overnight if a) too many more civilians are killed; or b) we do not deliver immediate aid to help the country get back on its feet. "How much does it cost for one or two bombing missions?" he asked. "That money could provide salaries to thousands of civilservice employees." He also said: "I do not feel that by asking for American economic aid we are asking for charity. Thousands and thousands of our people died to battle first your enemy the Russians and now your enemy Al Queda. And we warned you year after year after year -- Abdul Haq warned you -- that the Taliban and Al Queda would attack America from their bases in Afghanistan. We asked you to help us defeat them, but you refused." The above is close to an exact quote. His views are pretty interesting, I think. . Great observations from Abdul Haq's son and David Kline.

This is some not good news. In fact, horrible news *if true*. Al Qaida moving into Gaza, may join fight against Israel ANKARA � Western diplomatic sources said Al Qaida insurgents have infiltrated the West Bank and Gaza Strip in an effort to determine whether the movement should make the Palestinian areas into their new home. The sources said Al Qaida appears to prefer the Gaza Strip over more distant locations such as Somalia. http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_7.html