SPOILERS to Current Firth Productions (part 2)

(Tress on the last topic) In the book, I sort of understood the attraction between first Colin and Vera and then Colin and Mandy. I was wondering if it was 'glossed over' in the film and that is why there are so many negative comments about the relationships? Yes I think this is the major problem. Since they don't talk about him and Vera's history, other than alluding to it via Colin saying 'I don't have first dates' and how he says to Mandy that he can't really think of a happy place without her since she was always there, we are left wondering why there's a choice. No fetus story. No sex at the grandparents house story. Nothing about their families being inter-twined. Just this British stick insect who works for a fashion mag shows up and demands that they get back together. And Mandy? It doesn't make sense why she's drinking. Her issues are not explained. I mean, it's a bit funny in the book too, but it comes off as quirky there. Really, what's the choice?! They are both unworthy!! =) I'm trying to figure out, now that I've seen WAGW as well finally (thanks to Brenda for sending a copy so I don't have to wait till August!), which one I like better... I actually don't know. The cheese factor in WAGW is a little high for me but at least it sort of makes sense. He obviously shines above the crap in both =).

Since I see the last spoiler topic somehow began with my only other review, it seems only right to post this: I found HS very disappointing. I'm not sure how much I was primed by the bad reviews to be unimpressed, but there was very little to interest even a fan of the rom-com genre like me. HG was indeed pretty feeble, but I felt a lot of sympathy given the ridiculous character allotted to her. The other person I felt a bit sorry for was Vera (the character this time), who aside from the stupid thing she had done to begin everything, came across somewhat sympathetically to me - possibly against the writers' wishes. Particular nonsenses included: - Colin suffering unbelievable physical pain ... from jet-lag (hey, go to bed!) - the getting-naked scene: pathetic implausible male-fantasy tripe - the golf-course - WHY were they there? (yes I heard the reason given, and it's senseless) - the carrying-the-woman business - the puns on the town's name: they don't seem that clever when it's been made up for the purpose The most mind-boggling thing is that the original book (which can hardly have been much different, I imagine) was by a writer with a good reputation. Unless there was a total change of focus in the movie, the book must have been rubbish - therefore the stories about it being recommended by NH etc are bizarre. I also saw what the critics were saying about this being a Hugh-Grant-role; there was a lot of repressed-Englishman-gently-mocked-by-upfront-Americans stuff. The only upsides were: Some good stuff from CF and MD - expressions of anguish and bewilderment; I didn't find Mary Steenburgen and Oliver Platt all that funny, but was quite touched by Frank Collison as Fisher. a very nice feel to the small town; you could sense how it might be possible to kick-start a new life somewhere more close-knit. But overall, a very disappointing film.

(Mark) The other person I felt a bit sorry for was Vera (the character this time) In the book, you wouldn't have felt any sympathy for her. Particular nonsenses included: - the carrying-the-woman business Why? It worked in Officer and a Gentleman; however, if they left out the whole library scene, where Mandy was hyperventillating and everyone was tending to her, then I imagine there might not seem to be a reason for it. - the puns on the town's name: they don't seem that clever when it's been made up for the purpose While there actually was a Hope, BC, where they filmed, I haven't liked the name change business myself; completely trite and destined for universal ridicule. the book must have been rubbish - therefore the stories about it being recommended by NH etc are bizarre. NH reviewed the book for The Times. There is/was a link to his review on the HS page, but you can't get to Times archival material anymore for free. Here's a blurb by him (will look for the rest): "If, however, you are of the sound persuasion that there is really no higher calling than the crafting of jokes then you will appreciate this novel for what it is: a delicate, rare and exquisitely planed oddity."

Rika, could you move this to Firthology please.

Don't know if this counts as a "spoiler" but if you've never seen Reluctant Debutante it's on TCM today at 6 pm (eastern). Am now stuck with mental image of Rex H doing air guitar...

(Emma) He obviously shines above the crap in both =). You nailed it , Emma. If we think the HS reviews in UK were bad, wait til WAGW is released. Thanks for your objective critque of the film, Mark. Most of the good ones here focused on the Drool factor;-) I think you would have enjoyed the book; I found the dialogue witty . Bet you'll find it in the sale bin soon.

And NH was the one who told a number of us at his book-signing for How to Be Good about Colin doing ths role. So if you want to blame anybody...

(Mark) the puns on the town's name: they don't seem that clever when it's been made up for the purpose Maybe they changed the name of the town when the original Cardiff threatened to sue to keep from being associated with the movie? Am thinking of reviews like, "If the NEW Cardiff is this bad, imagine what the old one was like!" (Evelyn) If we think the HS reviews in UK were bad, wait til WAGW is released. Ouch! You're right, they'll probably be cruel. And the box office won't be great--do Brit teens/tweens know who AB is? And will ODB's demographic in UK go to see a movie featuring an unkown [to them] teenager? (Or will they wait until it's shown on video nite at the nursing home?) (Evelyn) Bet you'll find it in the sale bin soon. Or on ebay? Selling your copy, Ev? ;-) Maybe the publishers of the book will get rid of excess copies by working out a deal with the video distributors--HS sold shrink-wrapped with the book in a package set? There could even be a deluxe set that comes with art supplies, including, em, erasers...

(Karen), And NH was the one who told a number of us at his book-signing for How to Be Good about Colin doing ths role. So if you want to blame anybody... Oh, please! You forgot your winkee. (Mark), The most mind-boggling thing is that the original book (which can hardly have been much different, I imagine) was by a writer with a good reputation. This writer had not written in a very long time, correct me if I'm wrong, but it was his book after the 30 years+ since The Graduate. I know some did like it, but I was disappointed. I don't think you would like it, Mark.

I agree with Moon. I recently bought the book and was disappointed. It has potential but something's missing. A few chuckles here and there but it's not a book I'd read again (my opinion, for what it's worth.) That being said, I can see why someone would want to make a movie out of it. From all accounts, even the positive reviews, sounds like it was the wrong someone.

(sonia)From all accounts, even the positive reviews, sounds like it was the wrong someone. Wrong screenwriter and director.

And lest we forget, wrong actress (I use the term loosely) for Mandy.

(Variety) However, what plays well on paper as a series of verbal exchanges doesn't necessarily translate to the same effect on the more concrete bigscreen. I liked the book, but I think this is the key. It was a very odd story, but in my imagination I could accept the oddities as whimsical. But when codified on the screen it might not work as well.

I liked the book, as well. When I read it a second time, I enjoyed the dialogue much more. I think, perhaps it was because I could hear Colin delivering those lines. Sorry that it didn't translate to the screen in a better light:-( The falling into bed after just meeting Mandy didn't bother me...I just chalked it up to rebounding. I'm also sorry that they left out the background info on Colin and Vera. I can see why it sounds disappointing. (I want to see it anyway)

(Linda)I think, perhaps it was because I could hear Colin delivering those lines I first read the book, when I knew Colin had been filming it. So I pretty much felt like Linda described. That my reading took place on evening strolls along the beach also worked to give me a good feeling about the book. It seems however, that Emma is right in her analasys (sp?) of what went wrong -( I'm also one of those, who will blame it if not on the boogie, then the director/screenwriter and perhaps HG. I refuse to believe, Colin didn't do his best.

(Annette) blame it if not on the boogie.... LOL!!!!

(Karen), And lest we forget, wrong actress (I use the term loosely) for Mandy. Who would you have cast? I always thought HG would be a good Mandy, she's ditsy enough. Let's not forget that part of the magic of The Graduate was the soundtrack. Simon & Garfunkle at their very best. The director should have taken this into consideration too.

(Moon) Let's not forget that part of the magic of The Graduate was the soundtrack. ... The director should have taken this into consideration too. ROTF. Mark Herman ain't Mike Nichols.

(Moon) Who would you have cast? Christina Applegate, Drew Barrymore, Cameron Diaz, Calista Flockhart, Kate Hudson, Lisa Kudrow, Debra Messing, Penelope Ann Miller, Elisabeth Shue, Marisa Tomei...

(Sonia) Christina Applegate -- interesting choice, she isn't a great actress either, but would probably fit. Drew Barrymore -- I don't think she could pull it off. Though liked her ditziness in Never Been Kissed. I really can't decide on her. Debra Messing, Penelope Ann Miller, Elisabeth Shue -- too old (sorry) Kate Hudson -- could see this Cameron Diaz -- I could see this, too, but been there, done that too many times. Calista Flockhart -- I was thinking too old, but she could pull it off. Colin would crush and dwarf her though. ;-) Lisa Kudrow -- Ugh. Would like to see her as an intelligent person again. Marisa Tomei -- I could see this. Wow Sophie, interesting list. I don't have anyone that pops immediately to mind except actually Juliet Lewis, but she played a ditz in Gaudi Afternoon. It was out a couple of months ago. I'm sure no one saw it. Uma Thurman comes to mind too, but I think she's too old, also.

I went over this twice *heavy sigh*

(Sophie and Dorine) Kate Hudson -- could see this Marisa Tomei -- I could see this. Like both of these choices.....and could see Drew Barrymore (Dorine seemed a bit on the fence about her). (Dorine) I don't have anyone that pops immediately to mind except actually Juliet Lewis... Oh! I like this one too! (Dorine) Uma Thurman comes to mind too, but I think she's too old, also. She plays 'Mandy' parts well....(I thought her Cecile was too coltish (but no young virgin IMO)....all elbows and legs). She also has the hugest hands (and I can't help but stare at them every time I watch her). I was thinking Leelee Sobieski (but think she may be too young at 21...how old is Mandy again?) or Christina Ricci (again...maybe too young at 23)...but Kate Hudson is 24. Winona Ryder may be too old (but could surely use the work), Lili Taylor....Liv Tyler, Jennifer Jason Leigh (again....too old). Okay, I'll stop....some very wacky choices, I know....

Gah! Sorry! That should be Sonia and not Sophie! My apolgies!!

(Tress) Gah! Sorry! That should be Sonia and not Sophie! My apolgies!! Sonia, *my* apologies..... as opposed to Tress's apolgies. ;-) Sorry 'bout that. Got my appointment with the eye doctor to tomorrow. :-) how old is Mandy again?) Wasn't she in her mid-20's? Lili Taylor Love her, but couldn't pull off being a ditz, IMO.

(Moon) This writer had not written in a very long time, correct me if I'm wrong, but it was his book after the 30 years+ since The Graduate. I know some did like it, but I was disappointed. I don't think you would like it, Mark. I completely agree! I was absolutely obsessed with The Graduate when it came out (saw it 13 times in the theater). However, the book did absolutely nothing for me. IMO it was much improved-upon as a film. Too bad the same apparently can't be said for New Cardiff. (Moon) Let's not forget that part of the magic of The Graduate was the soundtrack. Simon & Garfunkle at their very best. The director should have taken this into consideration too. And that soundtrack was rather a stroke of luck. Paul Simon was supposed to produce all new songs. However, he's a notoriously slow writer and only produced one, "Mrs. Robinson," IMO the second-weakest song on the soundtrack (the weakest being "Big Bright Green Pleasure Machine").

Marisa Tomei I've loved her ever since My Cousin Vinney. She could definitely play the ditz, but you know there is a brain underneath it all.

(Moon) Who would you have cast? Same one I said when the project first came out: Jane Adams. (Moon) Let's not forget that part of the magic of The Graduate was the soundtrack. Interesting that you mention this because a number of the reviews have mentioned how the music doesn't work in HS:(Telegraph) the clunky soundtrack features a shockingly bad cover version of 10cc's I'm Not in Love. (Variety) With a strong assist from a blaring pop-rock soundtrack and a sequence in which Colin careensthrough town in the drunken Mandy's auto, the film initially aims for a kind of wacky humor that simply seems forced. (Other Variety) though the soundtrack's habit of slipping into deafening songs is both unsuitable to the low-key comedy and smacks of some desperation in putting some heft into the movie. Seems like they were trying to cover things up, make it more palatable to the audience, when the result only turns into an expanded music video. How did anyone who saw it feel about the soundtrack?

(Dorine) Calista Flockhart -- I was thinking too old, but she could pull it off. Colin would crush and dwarf her though. ;-) Yes, but if Calista had been Mandy, Colin would not have needed an "appliance" after carrying her around all day.

(Moon) Who would you have cast? (Karen) Same one I said when the project first came out: Jane Adams. Mel, Niles' wife from Frasier? I remember you saying her before. Isn't she a bit too old for the part, though? I mean, no offense to her, of course (esp as we are the same age).

(KateDF)Yes, but if Calista had been Mandy, Colin would not have needed an "appliance" after carrying her around all day. Yes, but as "elder statesman" and quite probable good egg, he can now bequeath the appliance to the young recruit that will need to carry the prisoner acroos Angola on his back in TDW!

(Maria) Yes, but as "elder statesman" and quite probable good egg, he can now bequeath the appliance to the young recruit that will need to carry the prisoner acroos Angola on his back in TDW! ROTFL....good thinking Maria! Maybe ODB can suggest to the director to start slowly (with a gerbil) or maybe even suggest a larger version of a Baby Bjorn to help the 'youngsters' out.... What about Mira Sorvino or Laura Dern (too old?).....

(Moon) Let's not forget that part of the magic of The Graduate was the soundtrack. (Karen)Interesting that you mention this because a number of the reviews have mentioned how the music doesn't work in HS: I forget, which Van Morrison track was used in this film?

(Mark) The most mind-boggling thing is that the original book (which can hardly have been much different, I imagine) was by a writer with a good reputation. Unless there was a total change of focus in the movie, the book must have been rubbish - therefore the stories about it being recommended by NH etc are bizarre. I was v. disappointed with the book. I've never read The Graduate, but liked the movie, so I had high expectations for NC. IMO, NC was light on plot and character development, so there really wasn't much material to work with. (Karen) And NH was the one who told a number of us at his book-signing for How to Be Good about Colin doing the role. So if you want to blame anybody... I keep thinking about the NH connection. Maybe NH felt he had to find something for ODB, since AAB role went to Huge. As for the Mandy casting, I, too, thought of Kate Hudson. (Moon) Let's not forget that part of the magic of The Graduate was the soundtrack. Simon & Garfunkle at their very best. The director should have taken this into consideration too. Yes, the soundtrack really gave The Graduate a modern and hip feel, and one theme of the film was the clash of two generations. Karen's snippet from a review: (Telegraph) the clunky soundtrack features a shockingly bad cover version of 10cc's I'm Not in Love. Geez, the original wasn't exactly great, either. :-)

I liked 10cc and I like that song too. I'm not big on cover versions. (Sophie and Dorine) Kate Hudson -- could see this KH was my first choice too. Some of the other ones mentioned are too old. Heather Graham was actually a good casting call. (Karen), Seems like they were trying to cover things up, make it more palatable to the audience, when the result only turns into an expanded music video. They should have gotten only one band to do the soundtrack. One of the best soundtracks around is for About A Boy. I highly recommend it.

(Telegraph) the clunky soundtrack features a shockingly bad cover version of 10cc's I'm Not in Love. (LisaJH) Geez, the original wasn't exactly great, either. :-) I second that Lisa. (LisaJH) Maybe NH felt he had to find something for ODB, since AAB role went to Huge. Can't say HG will be remembered for AAB. Can't say many will remember the movie though it was pleasant enough:)

For those who have seen the movie, is there a scene where Colin is sketching a girl while in a paddle boat? I've just heard from the actress and she fears it might have wound up on the cutting room floor.

There is a montage of Colin sketching various people around the town - this includes several clips on the paddle-boat (including the "King of the World" nod to Titanic. He sketches at least two people while on the paddle-boat (albeit briefly) and I am convinced one of them is a girl (yay for extras!) This is the same montage (less than two minutes' worth) that represents the period where he gets to know Mandy (easy to imagine it came across more fully in the book), and to which the fairly bad cover version of I'm Not In Love plays.

(Mark)yay for extras! Speaking of extras, you are going to get a bit in EOR, I hope. We need our insider info, you know!

(Mark)yay for extras! (Kate)Speaking of extras, you are going to get a bit in EOR, I hope. We need our insider info, you know! Take care of the Burberry suit, Mark.Or nice excuse to buy a new one:-))) Other question : I hear the "tie scene" is v. short in the film. A whole chapter in the book, and my favorite part.

Thanks, Mark, I'll let her know.

I'm back from my vacation to London. I had a wonderful time but only scratched the surface of all there is to do and see. Now I have a bad case of the jet lag and have only been able to skim all the Drool I've missed, but I want to add my HS comments while they're still fresh. Not that I can judge the movie objectively. I'm one of those who'd settle for ODB reading the phone book ;-) I apologize ahead of time for repeating other comments. I see no reason why HS can't be released in North America. It's no Lond'm, or PM. I've only been able to stomach Lond'm once, but happily saw HS 4 times. Hey, I needed to sit and rest somewhere!! I do wonder what I would've thought of the plot if I hadn't read the book. Mandy wasn't given any motivation except a few mentions of previous bad experiences with love. HG did have a few convincing moments. I liked when she got teary when Colin said he wanted her to come to England with him. MD was very good. She had her own musical theme (reminded me of the Peter Gunn theme) when she'd appear. And she had some funny lines, like when the lady on the golf course says, "Excuse me. What is that?" and Vera says, "It's a cigarette. It makes your clothes smell and you die." (BTW, none of my quotes will be accurate, but you get the drift.) Colin looked wonderful. He must have been doing sit-ups to get his stomach to look so fit. And his chest has broadened nicely. The swooniest moment for me was when he climbs into bed with M, pants off/shirt on. She undoes his shirt as he lays on his back, and she starts to rub his chest in a figure-eight pattern as they talk. My ears start to buzz and she sits on him. He says, "It's starting to click into place now." but then he sees the drawing of V that he's put on his mirror and he loses the 'mood'. M lays back down and starts to rub his earlobe. He says how he doesn't have first dates, and I try not to pass out. Another yummy moment is when M gets C into the church to talk. She tells him it's the only place she could think of where they could talk without having sex. C just looks at her and then looks around, thinking. He starts to grin more and more. Very devilish and sweet. But they break up and he looks so sad, he's gasping for air almost. Then his expression becomes angry and you know he's going to get even with V. When V is telling him about her ancestors, he says "Wow!" and "Good heavens!" in a not-convincing way. Cute. M and C have some cute banter that plays naturally as if not scripted. He says he'll go out with her and she says "Cool." so he imitates her by saying "Cool". She mentions a time to pick him up and he says "Splendid" so she mimics his "Splendid". When they go to the Hope Springs Gardens, M says she used to come there all the time and C says, "For non-botanical things". She mimics again and adds "What Ho, Jeeves". C smiles genuinely, which is something he should really do more often. It's so rare to see an actual smile. I liked Oliver Platt a lot. Mary S was horrid!! Fraser was fun but more of a caricature than the others. I liked the music. Roland Gift did the title song and Fun Lovin' Criminals did "I'm Not in Love" which I enjoyed (sorry Mark!), despite it being a rather long montage sequence of C and M getting to know each other. I loved the sets. I was being a cranky Canadian, looking for clues that the movie was made in BC but the only things I noticed was a "No Cheques Cashed" sign outside the art store, and a "In Flanders Field" stained glass window in the church. (Would those be in Vermont?). The sets were very detailed. The mayor's office was filled with little things, and even had a photo of George W. on the wall. Lots of little US flags scattered around. The weather did look very cold. Frosty breath. My least fave moments: -M drinking all that liquor and not being sick. I couldn't stop wondering how she could stand up, and if she did this often. -when C was on the bus in the opening credits, trying to find a comfortable position to sit in. First, his stubble changed length a couple of times. Then he sat with his back to the window and his feet up over his head. It's the strangest image and I still wonder if I saw that right. -C avoiding touching his hair. He worked very hard to not put his fingers in his hair which made me think "wig" or "weave"! Lovely hair though. -M's roots changing from blonde to dark occasionally. -V standing outside in her underwear for ages because her smoke alarm has gone off. No one gives her a jacket. She knows she's the one who set off the alarm by smoking so why is she rushing outside as if there's a real fire? Sure the sprinklers are on but stop and get a blanket! Ask away if I've left out details you'd like to know. PS: I happened to be in Islington just walking around, visiting various Starbucks, and a bus went by with "Just Drool" written on the side! It was an ad for Special K bars, I think. Made me LOL! And then I found my favourite chocolate bar (Caramac) in Sainsbury's. Hurrah! And Emma gave me the BJD tour! Thank you, Emma, and Thank You London!!

(Brenda) Thank You London!! LOL. Fall on any royal laps? C avoiding touching his hair. He worked very hard to not put his fingers in his hair which made me think "wig" or "weave"! Lovely hair though. ROTFL. I see no reason why HS can't be released in North America. From your mouth (uh fingers) to His ears (uh eyes).

Brenda! Incredible amount of detail here! Feel like I might've had the seat next to you on one of those rest stops of yours. ;-) [MD] had her own musical theme (reminded me of the Peter Gunn theme) when she'd appear. Real subtle, huh? Wonder why they didn't use the Jaws theme? ;-D The swooniest moment for me was when he climbs into bed with M, pants off/shirt on....My ears start to buzz and she sits on him. LOL! Another yummy moment is when M gets C into the church to talk. She tells him it's the only place she could think of where they could talk without having sex. C just looks at her and then looks around, thinking. He starts to grin more and more. Very devilish and sweet. I'm pretty sure one of the reviews mentioned this. Sounds like a real highlight, in the smirky BeeGees way. a "No Cheques Cashed" sign outside the art store Pretty shoddy work here, especially when you remember the book's dialogue about not taking any money with QE2 on it. First, his stubble changed length a couple of times. How close to the screen were you?? Do you normally carry a ruler/tape measure in your travel bag? and a bus went by with "Just Drool" written on the side! I think we should sue. ;-)

Welcome Back, Brenda!! (Brenda)I see no reason why HS can't be released in North America. Hear, hear.But the BO in UK was dismal. What was the count when you saw it It's no Lond'm, or PM. Close to SLOW:-((( Ask away if I've left out details you'd like to know Fantastic job. Were there any parts in the book that Idiot Director couldn't figure out how to transpose to the screen?

I should add that inside the art store a sign said "No checks cashed" so they had all their bases covered. (Karen)How close to the screen were you?? Do you normally carry a ruler/tape measure in your travel bag? Sad to say there weren't a lot of other people in the theatre that I had to compete with so I had a good choice of seats. And I happen to be a stubble connoisseur, thank you very much ;-) BTW, the Catherine Zeta Jones joke always got the biggest laugh. And I forgot to say how great C's golf course speech/rant is as he stands screaming how his ex-fiancee and him are trying to work out their deep-seated problems. Would love to all the takes of that scene.

(Evelyn)Close to SLOW:-((( HS is much better than SLOW. Better than a J-Lo movie, too. And in HS's defense, the other movies I saw had small audiences. Don't expect I Capture the Castle to come over here. And Johnny English won't do big business. I saw plenty of ads for movies there that I've never heard of here. Helena Bonham-Carter and Paul Bettany, a Michael Caine movie, a Rupert Everett period movie. If a movie isn't a blockbuster, what chance does it have anymore? I'm going to have to skim the book again to see what was left out. They never mentioned that Rob was M's brother. Or any of the art store owners' story. No wedding at the motel. Another funny line: V is at Shining Shores, where M works, and she reads the sign. "Whining Whores". Ooooh, I forgot the bit where M is getting C to imagine the perfect place and he pictures himself lying on a beach in his trunks in golden sunlight, one hand playing with the sand, lovely profile as the camera climbs his body. Then a hand feeds him a slice of melon.

THANK YOU, BRENDA! Great descriptions. LOL at the comment about not touching his hair. Ooooh, I forgot the bit where M is getting C to imagine the perfect place and he pictures himself lying on a beach in his trunks in golden sunlight, one hand playing with the sand, lovely profile as the camera climbs his body. Then a hand feeds him a slice of melon. You must be jet-lagged to forget a moment like that! Oh, to have the job of feeding him the melon! (Brenda again)C smiles genuinely, which is something he should really do more often. It's so rare to see an actual smile. I know! He has such a great smile. That's my only complaint about him doing dramas. Sometimes he goes through a whole movie with nary a hint of those dimples. Um, sorry to pick at a detail, Boss, but royalty get roman numerals (QEII). I saw your comment about QE2 and I kept thinking, huh? what does the ship have to do with HS?

Brenda, thank you so much for all the details. Makes me want to :-(( Sounds as though it is v. watchable and CF is his usual AFG self. (Karen)Sounds like a real highlight, in the smirky BeeGees way. ...I noticed that smirk the very first time I saw the trailer, back in Novemeber If that is the "look"...Oh GAWD. OK, thoroughly convinced I need to see this. I'll take the DVD, I'll take anything at this point.

Brenda, thanks so much for sharing all the great details on HS! I just can't believe that it would do as poorly here as it has in the UK. I guess we won't ever find out now. (Brenda) C just looks at her and then looks around, thinking. He starts to grin more and more. Very devilish and sweet. Another appearance by Naughty Colin? Love it when he shows his wicked side. C smiles genuinely, which is something he should really do more often. It's so rare to see an actual smile. Saw a couple of those in WAGW and I agree, they are swoonworthy. lying on a beach in his trunks in golden sunlight, one hand playing with the sand, lovely profile as the camera climbs his body. Then a hand feeds him a slice of melon. Talk about fantasies....

(Brenda) Ooooh, I forgot the bit where M is getting C to imagine the perfect place and he pictures himself lying on a beach in his trunks in golden sunlight, one hand playing with the sand, lovely profile as the camera climbs his body. Then a hand feeds him a slice of melon. How could you forget that?!? ;-) Thank you Brenda for all the HS info. Definitely going to have to sneak that DVD into the house :-).

(Brenda)Colin looked wonderful. He must have been doing sit-ups to get his stomach to look so fit. And his chest has broadened nicely. (Brenda) Ooooh, I forgot the bit where M is getting C to imagine the perfect place and he pictures himself lying on a beach in his trunks in golden sunlight, one hand playing with the sand, lovely profile as the camera climbs his body. Then a hand feeds him a slice of melon. . OMG! Brenda, you're killing me! Thanks so much for the juicy descriptions but this is downright painful. I hope we can see for ourselves sometime soon. Hmmm, there will be trunks up for "grabs".......

thanks, Mark and Brenda, for your very different reviews of HS. I'm one who liked the book--however I always felt that it was merely a *framework* for a screenplay, and assumed the characters would have been fleshed out, given a back-story, the plot expanded, motivations added, the actors provided with some meat to work with, etc. Seems that didn't happen. (Mark)Particular nonsenses included: - the carrying-the-woman business (Karen)Why? It worked in Officer and a Gentleman Yeah, but a good movie preceded it.;-) I *still* want to see it, of course . . .

Also from me, copying Mari: thanks, Mark and Brenda, for your very different reviews of HS. To many things to paste and comment and would only end up copying most of your remarks, so I'll leave it out :-) Glad to know, that at least the dvd is reaching my country (eventually).

Excellent details Brenda! Thanks so so much! (Brenda) [MD] had her own musical theme (reminded me of the Peter Gunn theme) when she'd appear. (Karen) Wonder why they didn't use the Jaws theme? ;-D Or Wizard of Oz Wicked Witch music? (Kate) Oh, to have the job of feeding him the melon! Oh to *be* that melon. ;-) (Brenda)I see no reason why HS can't be released in North America. (Evelyn) Hear, hear.But the BO in UK was dismal. Think it will still be out in Sept when I plan to go? ;-) (Mari) I always felt that it was merely a *framework* for a screenplay, and assumed the characters would have been fleshed out, given a back-story, the plot expanded, motivations added, the actors provided with some meat to work with, etc. My thoughts as well when I read it.

Thanks Brenda for sharing your experiences and the review. Thanks also Mark. Just wish we would have the opportunity. Thanks again.

Brenda, thank you so much for all the excellent details! forgot the bit where M is getting C to imagine the perfect place and he pictures himself lying on a beach in his trunks in golden sunlight, one hand playing with the sand, lovely profile as the camera climbs his body. Then a hand feeds him a slice of melon. Wait. Do we actually get a shot of him in his trunks at the beach? This needs repeating. ;-) It's interesting that you did not care for MS and the actor who played her husband when most of the British critics loved them. Keep *spoiling* us please. :-D

(Mari) I'm one who liked the book--however I always felt that it was merely a *framework* for a screenplay, and assumed the characters would have been fleshed out, given a back-story, the plot expanded, motivations added, the actors provided with some meat to work with, etc. Seems that didn't happen. Interesting that you bring this up. I'm about 70% through The Graduate and I'm amazed at how "faithful" they were to the book (all dialogue too, reading like New Cardiff). Yes, they've trimmed things down, deleted dialogue and a few scenes, to tightened things up, but what amazes me is that they haven't done a wholesale rewrite as Mark Herman seems to have felt was necessary. So far the only noticeable differences are the bit about "plastics" and adding the Mr Gladstone check-in to the first meeting scene (when he goes back to the hotel with Elaine, everyone calls him Mr Gladstone, but you never see him establishing the false identity intitially, so that's an improvement IMO). As I've said before, the relationship between Ben and Elaine is just as improbable in the book/movie as the one between Colin and Mandy. Ben takes her out once, is barred from seeing her, and then decides to marry her. Right, realistic. Will finish it later. But I'm convinced Mark Herman hadn't a clue of what to do with the material and wasn't smart enough to leave well enough alone. :-(

(Brenda) He must have been doing sit-ups to get his stomach to look so fit. And his chest has broadened nicely. Thank you for that Brenda! (Brenda) The swooniest moment for me was when he climbs into bed with M, pants off/shirt on. She undoes his shirt as he lays on his back, and she starts to rub his chest in a figure-eight pattern as they talk. My ears start to buzz and she sits on him. So glad you kept your continence and did not pass out during this scene so that you could report back to us all the juicy details! ;-) (Brenda) ....Then he sat with his back to the window and his feet up over his head. It's the strangest image and I still wonder if I saw that right. I can't even visualize this....LOL! I think my one year old nephew did this yesterday...;-) Thanks so much for your comments Brenda. Still want to see this....badly!

(Brenda) ....Then he sat with his back to the window and his feet up over his head. It's the strangest image and I still wonder if I saw that right. LOL. Those yoga lessons paid off.

(Moon Dreams)Wait. Do we actually get a shot of him in his trunks at the beach? This needs repeating. ;-) I forgot to mention this scene, too!! He's wearing longish beach shorts, fairly loose fitting, but the camera pans up from around mid-thigh to his face, the sun glinting off his body. - Wonderful!!!

(Brenda)I forgot the bit where M is getting C to imagine the perfect place (Janet)I forgot to mention this scene, too!! LOL, something tells me these two ladies were obviously quite lost in this scene. Glad that you both had memory restoration:-) Another question... What type of expression did he have on his face during this melon eating scene?

(Janet)He's wearing longish beach shorts, fairly loose fitting, but the camera pans up from around mid-thigh to his face, the sun glinting off his body. It just occurred to me he could've worn a speedo in this scene. I wouldn't have survived that! His expression in the melon scene was blissful. I think his eyes were closed at first. The melon slice was very thin and came down straight to his mouth. But I especially loved the hand playing in the sand. I thought of another line I liked. When V shows up for the first time and C is in his towel with the scarf still on his chest (I think), he's angry and says, "How was the fucking wedding?" Very angry. Made me shiver.

(Karen) But I'm convinced Mark Herman hadn't a clue of what to do with the material and wasn't smart enough to leave well enough alone. :-( And Calder Willingham and Buck Henry better writers as well, perhaps. (Brenda) It just occurred to me he could've worn a speedo in this scene I'm sorry, but I do have to say......Ewwww. I don't have an affection for Speedos on anyone.

(Dorine)I'm sorry, but I do have to say......Ewwww. I don't have an affection for Speedos on anyone How do you feel about thongs? :-D

(Dorine)I'm sorry, but I do have to say......Ewwww. I don't have an affection for Speedos on anyone (Brenda)How do you feel about thongs? :-D Several years ago I went on vacation to Turkey....lots of men in thongs there. Haven't been able to think of thongs without wanting to throw up ever since ;-)!

Sorry for the double post but I forgot to thank Brenda, Janet and Mark for all the delicious details.

(Dorine) And Calder Willingham and Buck Henry better writers as well, perhaps. Absolutely, but all they had to do was trim this slim book down and focus in on the funniest things. The movie of The Graduate is taken directly from the book The Graduate. Hate to say it, but Hope Springs sounds like it was "inspired" by the book New Cardiff. :-( (Dorine)I'm sorry, but I do have to say......Ewwww. I don't have an affection for Speedos on anyone OK, maybe not Colin, but are your eyes not glued to the TV during Olympic swimming? ;-))))))))))

(Karen)OK, maybe not Colin, but are your eyes not glued to the TV during Olympic swimming? ;-)))))))))) Mine are!! It is a rare bod that they look good on (imho) but those sleek swimmers, and might I add divers, often got em.

(Brenda)It just occurred to me he could've worn a speedo in this scene. I wouldn't have survived that! (Dorine)I'm sorry, but I do have to say......Ewwww. I don't have an affection for Speedos on anyone. (Karen)OK, maybe not Colin, but are your eyes not glued to the TV during Olympic swimming? ;-)))))))))) (Beedee)Mine are!! It is a rare bod that they look good on (imho) but those sleek swimmers, and might I add divers, often got em Have I just entered a parallel universe? Since when don't Drool ladies want to see CF in speedos? I'm having my own Memorial Day film festival double feature of Tumbledown and Part Three of Lost Empires. Just so happens Robert of TD pops out of bed with Sophie and jumps into a pair of tiny black briefs (read speedos). For some reason I was not saying Ewww! And would have not averted my eyes in disgust if he turned around. Saw a guy who looked like him in speedos on the beach one day and DH almost had to tie me to my beach chair. There are so only so many reasons you can find to stroll non-chalantly by without becoming conspicuous.; )

Right, I stand corrected the black briefs started up the saliva (actually that happened a couple of seconds before they appeared); however, to go totally off topic, Tineke created a pic of Mr Darcy on the USA swim team a few years back for my birthday prezzie. OK, back to our regularly scheduled topic of Hope Springs...

Am going to respond to Joyce (et. al.) on Firthology about the speedos, since I think I have hit general drool....

Welcome back, Brenda. Lovely spoilers. Mmmmmm. Almost think we could compare your and Mark's viewpoints of HS ala A Tale of Two Cities: "It was a drool-worthy movie; it was a lame movie," etc. ;-) (Brenda )Then he sat with his back to the window and his feet up over his head. It's the strangest image and I still wonder if I saw that right. Sounds like he could have taught the yoga class. ;-)

Almost think we could compare your and Mark's viewpoints of HS ala A Tale of Two Cities: "It was a drool-worthy movie; it was a lame movie," etc. ;-) ...It was a long montage ... it was a short montage ... etc ;-) Having cornered the Curmudgeon Award, I am reminded to say that there were some very funny moments: I did enjoy the "Whining Whores" line, and a lot of Vera's other dialogue was really sharp - though somehow I managed to miss the "rubbers" gag in the art shop(?) And there were some cute moments - and overall the film just about held together, but it certainly didn't come across as innovative and brilliant in any way. One bit I enjoyed that Brenda didn't was the opening montage of Colin on the bus trying to settle in various positions - and ending up looking utterly traumatised with grief; this was actually very powerful, and I was hoping for a really good film at that point. But as you know, I never got the movie I was hoping for...

"It was a drool-worthy movie; it was a lame movie," etc. ;-) I will point out that they are not necessarily antithetical. ;-)

"It was a drool-worthy movie; it was a lame movie," etc. ;-) (Karen) I will point out that they are not necessarily antithetical. ;-) And, in fact, that may, in the final analysis, turn out to be a very succinct summation of HS.

(Lisa) "It was a drool-worthy movie; it was a lame movie," etc. ;-) (Mark) I was hoping for a really good film at that point. But as you know, I never got the movie I was hoping for... (Karen) I will point out that they are not necessarily antithetical. ;-) (Rika) And, in fact, that may, in the final analysis, turn out to be a very succinct summation of HS. And TEP, and SLOW, and FF, and PM, and Camille, and ...

(Karen)I will point out that they are not necessarily antithetical. ;-) As we have daily proof! (Drooling over PM, FF, SLOW.......;-p)

LOL! Sonia, you beat me to it!

(Lisa) "It was a drool-worthy movie; it was a lame movie," etc. ;-) (Sonia) And TEP, and SLOW, and FF, and PM, and Camille, and ... Sonia, you thought TEP was drool-worthy and lame?

(Dorine) Sonia, you thought TEP was drool-worthy and lame? In the words of FD, it was tolerable I suppose but not handsome enough to tempt me.

(Lisa) "It was a drool-worthy movie; it was a lame movie," etc. ;-) (Mark) I was hoping for a really good film at that point. But as you know, I never got the movie I was hoping for... (Karen) I will point out that they are not necessarily antithetical. ;-) (Rika) And, in fact, that may, in the final analysis, turn out to be a very succinct summation of HS. Oh, dear, sounds like a just might be a good one for video. Then I can fast-forward over any non-ODB moments. Ah well, must set aside money that would have been used for frequent viewings of HS and use it to finance extra viewings of GWAPE. (Dorine) Sonia, you thought TEP was drool-worthy and lame? (Sonia) In the words of FD, it was tolerable I suppose but not handsome enough to tempt me. I have conflicting feelings about TEP. I liked it when I first saw it. I would say that it's definitely "handsome," but perhaps too slow. It was one one cable channel or another recently, and I found that I was impatient (ouch, no pun intended) waiting between Colin's scenes. And after he crashed, I stopped watching. I think it's one of those films that you really have to see on the big screen.

Too late, Mark, you're already on record with the truth.;-)

(MarkG)And there were some cute moments - and overall the film just about held together, but it certainly didn't come across as innovative and brilliant in any way. Well put, Mark. I could watch it many times over, even so. The opening montage made it's point well enough. I can't wait to see a screen capture of the feet over the head shot. That'll go on my desktop. If I look at it long enough, maybe I'll understand it one day ;-) As for the long, I'm Not in Love montage, I think it's a sneaky way to tell a story without developing your characters through dialogue. But I liked the scenes, and am thankful there was no voice-overs, at least. It's rare that I like a voice-over.

(MarkG)And there were some cute moments - and overall the film just about held together, but it certainly didn't come across as innovative and brilliant in any way. Maybe another viewing is needed, Mark. I think WAGW grew on some after multiple viewings...that is if HS made it through another week on your side of the pond:-)

(Kate F)Oh, dear, sounds like a just might be a good one for video. Then I can fast-forward over any non-ODB moments. From the sound of things, there aren't too many of those. That's one good thing, anyway.

I wanted to comment on my thoughts on HS. As I've said elsewhere, I've only seen a dark, small, grainy version of it, which certainly is having an impact. But that being said, I was disappointed. First off, this is a romantic comedy, right? And the romance would be... where? Mark Herman seems to have the same problem that I've seen in the past with some other male directors, which is their apparent belief that romance = sex. So, for example, the "I'm Not in Love" montage builds (sort of) to the scenes at the dance where our couple finally kisses, and immediately it gets heated and they're speeding down the road to the motel and racing upstairs to Colin's room to have sex. Okay, fine, but I'd like the sense that there's genuine warmth between them, not just hormones. Second, about that racing-upstairs-to-have-sex business. This is a PG-13 movie so they can't get too explicit, but we could at least rejoin them afterwards for a cuddle or something, anything that shows some genuine affection. But what does Herman do instead? He stays outside the room and "entertains" us with Joanie and Fisher (motel owners) being inspired by Colin and Mandy's mad dash upstairs to do likewise. In other words, he's more interested in running gags than in developing some real sense of a relationship between Colin and Mandy that would help us to root for them. I also agree with what MarkG said about the start of the movie feeling like it was going to be a totally different film from the one we actually got. I was really drawn into the first 15 minutes or so. I think I started getting unhappy with the movie around the time Mandy started chugging the peach brandy for reasons that were never made clear, and then they had the pointless high-speed car ride. I think this story would have made a better "dramedy" - mostly drama, with some quirky characters and clever dialogue. And as I think of it, that's exactly the way the book played in my mind. Having said that, there were some nice moments here and there. There's a sweet little scene where Colin and Mandy discuss, in indirect terms, that he'd like her to go back to England with him. Despite the fact that I didn't like HG overall, Mandy's reactions touched me in that scene. Just for a moment, you get the sense that something really is going on between these two. And the early stuff that I think Brenda mentioned, where Colin and Mandy make fun of one another ("Cool." "Cool." "Splendid." "Splendid.") was cute, and could have been developed as a continued form of gentle teasing between them that would have given us a sense that there was an actual relationship going on. I thought ODB was hilarious in the scene where Vera is telling Colin about the Queen of Hope business, and Colin works very hard to sound surprised (plus, he has the Catherine Zeta-Jones joke in that scene, which really is funny). I thought MD was a hoot, and her scenes with CF were IMHO the best ones in the movie. They really felt to me like a bickering old married couple. Even though we're not given enough of their backstory, I believed that they'd been together forever. And I have to echo the opinions that he's been working out. No complaints whatsoever in that department! There's a rather interesting camera angle when he's imagining himself lying on the beach being fed the melon - I suppose you'd call it Torso-Cam. I kept imagining it on a big screen instead of a dark little square on my laptop monitor. WAGW worked so much better for me, despite the many plot holes, because I was completely drawn into the development of the Henry/Daphne relationship. No matter what else was going on, that was at the core of the movie, and it's why I really loved that silly little piece of fluff.

(Rika)WAGW worked so much better for me, despite the many plot holes, because I was completely drawn into the development of the Henry/Daphne relationship. No matter what else was going on, that was at the core of the movie, and it's why I really loved that silly little piece of fluff.. I read a review posted here during WAGW publicity that said the film was just a series of pointless disconnected scenes. (not the exact words). I disagree very strongly with that. I agree with Rika, the chemistry between HD and Daphne, was very well done, and developed thoughout the stoy. It had continuity. I can't say the same about HS. I did feel that there was a lack of continuity. No charcter/relationship development. At least not on a level that made you care. If they put music to it, the whole film could have been one big montage. I loved the book...and I do agree that it should have been used as a framework for the film to be built on. It wasn't. Now for the positive...I will watch it again because I think you need to in order to catch and digest the dialogue, and to view that totally AFG body. (It's a CF film for Gawd sakes) I think that downloaded computer viewing is not the best way to go on this, but it serves it's purpose (saving the world from our non-stop drooling) until we get the real thing. I found myself laughing out loud several times. Colin is his usual AFG adorable self. I found HG to be weak, but I thought she had some good moments...I won't repeat as Rika has already pointed them out. The scenes, with MD, I also agree were some of the best in the film. I really found MS and her husband v.v. annoying. And I'll say it again...I don't think it deserved the level of criticism aimed at it. It was watchable and, for the most part, enjoyable.

Rika - sorry to hear you were disappointed, but thanks so much for the run-down. Sounds like writing the script in a hotel room is not conducive to good character/relastionship development. (Rika) In other words, he's more interested in running gags than in developing some real sense of a relationship between Colin and Mandy that would help us to root for them. Too bad...and from what Emma said, MH didn't go into Vera and Colin's past relationship either. IMO, that was very important in understanding why they were acting as they did. And Linda...thanks for your comments! (Linda) Now for the positive...I will watch it again because I think you need to in order to catch and digest the dialogue, and to view that totally AFG body. (It's a CF film for Gawd sakes) Droolworthy films have their place (and that would be in my DVD collection)! So, although the film is not his best, at least we can say he 'looked mah-velous!" ;-) Thank you ladies!!

Thanks ladies for the comments. I'd have to conclude (sight unseen) that the movie suffered from Mark Herman-itis. His take on the material (lack of vision) and need to bolster it up resulted in a film without any substance, which was then edited and reedited and super-reedited to try to put it into some releaseable version. Films like that are DOA.

I'm curious what comments were elicited in the test screenings and how they were dealt with in the final cut, assuming some changes were made afterward.

(dorine) "I'm curious what comments were elicited in the test screenings and how they were dealt with in the final cut, assuming some changes were made afterward" yeah, i'm fairly curious too : considering the time it took disney to release this movie, i guess it underwent a loooot of changes... i had a problem for all those who have seen the movie re: character depiction : it seems, from what i've read about the movie so far, that they suffer from poor development, but when i read the book, i sort of had the very same feeling. in a way, it felt very close to tiobe : characters who are merely masks upon which the writer can indulge in pasting one-liners... (needless to say i didn't like this book very much). would you say it is more obvious when transfered to film, or is it a flaw arising from poor direction, or what ? also am curious about the general rhythm of this movie : how could they make a 90 minute film with such little material ? some scenes in the book are just stretched to yogi limits, really. thanks for the info everyone. hey, rika where did you get your grainy version ?

(Sophie) thanks for the info everyone. hey, rika where did you get your grainy version ? I had mentioned over on CF news that the WinMX file sharing system has it floating around. But it takes some persistence to get it! but when i read the book, i sort of had the very same feeling. in a way, it felt very close to tiobe : characters who are merely masks upon which the writer can indulge in pasting one-liners... (needless to say i didn't like this book very much). would you say it is more obvious when transfered to film, or is it a flaw arising from poor direction, or what ? Good point. I'd say some of both. There's at least some character development in the book that has been removed or cut back here, but you're right, the original material required the reader to fill in a lot of holes. how could they make a 90 minute film with such little material ? some scenes in the book are just stretched to yogi limits, really. I think many of the scenes in the book have been cut shorter in the movie, too. I'll be curious to see what others who've seen it can recall - what scenes in the movie are totally new? There were some bits in the montage (Colin doing yoga, Colin and Mandy at a dance and then dashing back to the motel), and there are some scenes where Colin goes to Vera's hotel room and Vera strips down to her underwear to try to entice him (which I suppose was so Mark Herman had an excuse to get both of his leading ladies in their underwear at some point). Aside from that, most of what I can recall had at least some basis in the book, but I may be forgetting some things.

Thank you all for the informations and details. I thought some of you might find it interesting to read Mark Hermans version of Making Movies: http://www.channel4.com/film/reviews/feature.jsp?id=113260 I just saw the interview-tape promoting WAGW and found it interesting that he mentions both GWAPE and TRAUMA but not a word on Hope Springs. Then again, some of the interviewers (yes, that would be you Kevin) found it more interesting to talk than to listen. Colin seemed to be "cut off" several times :-( (wrong topic - I know, just didn't want to use an entry to complain)

(Annette) I just saw the interview-tape promoting WAGW and found it interesting that he mentions both GWAPE and TRAUMA but not a word on Hope Springs. ...And I am wondering why not one word on Love, Actually? It is supposedly a potential blockbuster, but not a whisper from anyone... Anything gone astray?

Because he was there to answer questions about What a Girl Wants. That satellite time was paid for by Warners Bros. He wasn't there to promote his other films. Naturally, when a reporter says, "what have you just completed?" or "what are you doing next?" he's going to answer. But he's not going to talk about other studios' films. Why is everyone reading so much into it?

(Annette)found it interesting that he mentions both GWAPE and TRAUMA but not a word on Hope Springs. I'm with you on this one Annette. Very odd w/the release of HS so close at hand. Atleast one word. May have had an inkling it was a clunker and might not be released in the States, so why confuse the US reporters? His best foot forward was GWAPE and an unknown commodity (Trauma). May have been overstepping to mention LA (not his movie really - big cast). Possiblity of a Touchstone/Warner clash but I doubt he'd be reprimanded for one mention.

From the context of the conversation, clearly he was asked about doing a long string of comedies. He mentioned GWAPE and Trauma to illustrate that he is now doing dramatic work. That's it, nothing more to it. Rika and LInda, thanks for the thoughtful comments on HS.

He talked about Trauma in some other contexts too - for example, the issue of restraint vs. letting loose in acting. But that seemed totally reasonable to me. It's his new project, so of course it was at the forefront of his mind.

Not sure if this is new, or it's been talked about and I missed it, or what, but since it's about HS I'll put it here. When I bought The Times to get my free preview passes those weeks ago before it opened, they included a DVD of previews to like 20 movies. I assumed it was all trailers and never got around to watching it. Imagine my surprise last night when I turn it on, select HS, and find a little featurette on it! They interviewed Barnaby Thompson, Mark Herman, Colin, Minnie, Heather and Mary Steenburgen briefly on set. It was like a DVD extra almost. The interesting bits were that Mark Herman said he needed Mandy's actress to be 'fluff with depth' and how Heather is such a good comedic actress. Uh huh. Colin said that Heather/Mandy brought out more humour and mischief in his character than he imagined. Minnie had the capacity to bring Colin Ware easily to the brink of hysteria. And (again) that it didn't hurt to have 2 beautiful women after him. He also said how nice it was to be in an American environment [hello you are in CANADA - sorry, I digress :) ]. Heather made me laugh when she said the appeal of the script was 'how people can be really devastated and next thing you know something really good can happen'. Oh Heather. You are so vacant.

Thanks, Emma! Is there any way to download it somewhere so that we may all share?

Thank you for the "extra-part" Emma. Now - back to WAGW (I haven't left the parallel universe yet). I might make comments that has been made before, but pray forgive me - I'm just trying to get my share of the conversation ;-) From the top of my head: There has been these talks about using of doubles, and I think someone mentioned that the flipping through the photoalbum was done by a double. I think not. If you look at his hands with the album and compare them to his hands holding Libbys head (big sigh !!) near the end, you'll find them very much alike. I think Anna Chancellor (sp?) does a great job as Glynnis. Yes, her hair, Louisa, looks terrible at Daphnes coming out party, but I found it very much correct for the occassion. About the party, is it common to have the key to every room sitting in the keyhole, or do you think she planned to "lock" Daphne away ?? I've looked and looked and then again to actually see "my" spoon touch his mouth, but either I've gone periodically blind or they don't show it ? I didn't think I would be interested in the soundtrack, but I may have changed my mind on that subject. I think there are some very good songs in the movie and I really do like the way Oliver James sings - voice of an angel, as someone mentioned (since this is a topic for ODB I won't comment on OJ anymore ;-)) About the missing shoes and jacket - in most of the motorbikes, I've seen, there is plenty of room under the seat to put things like that. And the "thing" in his back pocket - my guess would be a cell-phone. Finally the blp-scene. I didn't find it cringe-worthy at all. I found it to be very appropriate to show how Daphne had made Henry loosen up and try to remember, who he used to be. And the fondling with the zipper - didn't mind that at all ;-) Now I'll put a sock in it and go back to my sofa to nurse my cold. Only good thing about that is the excuse to lay around the house, close to the tv ....

Thanks for clip synopsis Emma. What a nice surprise for you. Great observations Annette. So glad you're enjoying it so much.

(Annette)I think someone mentioned that the flipping through the photoalbum was done by a double. I think not. I agree. As I recall, his hands do look very much the same as he captures Libby's face in them...oh gawd, that makes me drool...just thinking about it. The soundtrack is lots of fun...and many favorites from the film...Half Life and The Greatest Story, and The Ride of your Life. I'm just sorry they didn't include the James Brown song and Have I Told You Lately That I Love You?

(Emma) Heather made me laugh when she said the appeal of the script was 'how people can be really devastated and next thing you know something really good can happen'. Oh Heather. You are so vacant. Yeah, like, wow, it's so, like, cool when that happens, isn't it? I mean, totally. :-/ Thanks for the description, Emma!

Oh Emma, you lucky, lucky girl. Thank you so much for sharing, especially since Hope doesn't spring around here. Ok, ok, bad pun :-( (Emma) It was like a DVD extra almost. Crossing fingers it will be one of many DVD extras. ...an American environment [hello you are in CANADA - sorry, I digress :) ]. Me thinks Colin�s been in the peach brandy ;-) Oh Heather. You are so vacant. (Rika) Yeah, like, wow, it's so, like, cool when that happens, isn't it? I mean, totally. Ha x 5, hee x 5, ho x 5. Like, totally ROTFLMAO! :-D

(Sonia) especially since Hope doesn't spring around here Supposedly it did, somewhere in your vicinity. Crossing fingers it will be one of many DVD extras. Extras? You're expecting extras on a nontheatrical release? Pffft!

(Emma) He also said how nice it was to be in an American environment [hello you are in CANADA - sorry, I digress :) ]. could have been meant as america, the continent ? (Rika)Yeah, like, wow, it's so, like, cool when that happens, isn't it? I mean, totally. *heehee* valley girl, she's a valley girl, ok, fine, fu' shore fu' shore, etc.

(Emma) [hello you are in CANADA - sorry, I digress :) ]. Oh Heather. You are so vacant. ROTFL! (Annette) There has been these talks about using of doubles, and I think someone mentioned that the flipping through the photoalbum was done by a double. I think not. If you look at his hands with the album and compare them to his hands holding Libbys head (big sigh !!) near the end, you'll find them very much alike. In my class, Dennie Gordon specifically said they were hand doubles. Also said shots with AB from the back and side were her double's as well, since AB had a reduced schedule due to child labor laws. Feel better.

And for further clarification, that's AB's side shots with her face obscured.

(Dorine)In my class, Dennie Gordon specifically said they were hand doubles. Okay - fine by me. Glad they picked a pair of hands, that "worked". I find the "head-holding-kissing-scene" most droolworthy, so I'll just hang onto that one ;-) Thank you for sharing your inside-informations, Dorine :-)

(Annette) I find the "head-holding-kissing-scene" most droolworthy, so I'll just hang onto that one ;-) I don't think you have to let go of that one..I believe those are ODB's hands. The album hands are not his though....next time you go Annette, look at the thumb nail. The nail is long (never seen this on ODB) and the nail base is much bigger (ODB has the most *adorable* thumb nail...and his double....well....does not! ;-) ). The doubles hands looked tanner to me as well. If you compare the "Libby, how could you not tell me I had a child?" hands (ODB's) to the album page turning hands (could be the lighting that make the hands appear darker as well)....I'll stop now....I'm moving into 'hyper obsessive land'! ;-D

(Tress)I'll stop now....I'm moving into 'hyper obsessive land'! ;-D LOL, I'll join you shortly. I've allways been told to get my homework done, so there's no excuse - I'll have to study hands very thorougly (sp?). I believe those are ODB's hands They better be - they are attached to his arms (full shot of both face and hands). Lovely! (in the voice of Moxy) ;-) A little question, now that I'm posting. The picture of ODB in bed, Karen postet for Lizza - is that from Hope Springs? (looks very promising to me ;-))

Yes, it is from Hope Springs.

Judging from the pictures from Hope Springs, I'm gonna like it solely on the eyecandy factor ;-) A WAGW-question: The weddingscene in the end with Glynnis and Lord Orword (sp?). Is that taken at the same stairs as Lord Wessex and Lady Viola? It sure looks like that, but I don't have the movie to compare. Just wantet to say, that multiple viewings doesn't hurt the film, IMO.

(Annette)Just wantet to say, that multiple viewings doesn't hurt the film, IMO. ...not at all. I could watch again, and again. Don't know about the stairs, though...Maybe I should watch SIL tonight...that'll do me.

The release date for "what a girl wants" in Germany is now 26th June (says official WB homepage so I guess it�s sure).The movie was planed to be released on 31th July (If I�m not mistaken).A good sign isn�t it. Can�t wait to see the movie and read the german reviews.

Thanks for the good news, Petra. Am very much looking forward to seeing it at last.

Hope Springs

Karen, does this mean, what I think it means? :-(

GAH! What is the meaning of this!?? If I get out a defibrillator and yell "Clear!" can I fix it? Can it be brought back? Does this mean no DVD!???? HELP!?

I keep my hopes high. My guess is, it means no theatrical release in the US. But - I seem to remember someone saying something about no trouble in the DVD/VHS department. Something to do with the financing of it being in place. Let's keep hoping, shall we?

Remember, this is the Spoilers topic, not CF News. The above depicts my view of the film. Utterly lifeless, among other things.

Thank you Karen - You nearly gave us a heartattack ;-) Anyway, it seems you agree with most of the critics. Lifeless seems to be a very used word when it comes to this movie. However - as a drooler, I'm sure it has it's moments ;-) btw - off course the topic should have made me realise, it was no "official" death-sentence. Will have to pay more attention in the future.

(Annette)However - as a drooler, I'm sure it has it's moments ;-) Far and few between. I liked the ending.....principally because it was over;-)

I must agree! It is a very disappointing film. I was bored. I don't think this has a chance in the US. Who is the target audience? It's not even a rom com, IMO. It gets filed under the SLOW, Ldum failures. Both HG and MD steal the scenes they are in with him. Huge failure on Colin side. He gets an F and has to go sit in the back of the class. Colin slept walked through this one and that says it all considering that this was his baby. Mary Steenburgen(sp?) is awful. I did like HG. Her role was the most difficult to play and she did just fine. The golf course scene was ridiculous and I really hated the beginning. It all seems so fake, such a put on for him to be almost fainting and then banging his head on the glass? The funny scenes are so few and the music was totally wrong and too loud. Overall, this film failed the book and that was nothing much. Colin showed very poor judgement going after this one. Not even the towel scene saves this one. :-( Let's see what happens with the "silent" GWAPE and the "horror" Trauma. Will the females best him once more?

(Evelyn) I liked the ending.....principally because it was over;-) LOL! (Annette) However - as a drooler, I'm sure it has it's moments ;-) Only if you turn the sound off. :-( Watching this reminded me of a scene in The Way We Were, toward the end, where they're all in a screening room, trying to say something good about the film they just saw. "How unusual, where it's slow, it seems necessarily so."

(Moon)Colin showed very poor judgement going after this one. I normally don't do the apologist bit, but here I don't think he was misled by his friends. I liked the book and the material was there....the &*(%*^ director screwed things up royally. No creativity, no vision, no imagination. The jet- lag antics was not in the book and did not enhance the story or performance. The supporting actors with the exception of the mayor were caricatures. Agree that no amount of publicity could sell this film , sad to say. But it's not the worst movie of the year as The Guardian reported: "Kangaroo Jack" still holds that distinction. I liked the soundtrack

(Karen), What was it Mark Herman said?? Something about how Colin wanted to get this started real fast before there was a finished script. As I've said numerous times before, Mark Herman ain't no Roman Polanski, but Colin wanted to do this film badly, so badly that he canceled our little Hamlet hopes. You wonder why he rushed the production, especially as those following months were open. Exactly! What was the rush? But it's not the worst movie of the year as The Guardian reported: "Kangaroo Jack" still holds that distinction. I don't think the Guardian considers KJ a movie and neither should you. ;-) HS is a very bad movie. Doesn't even qusalify as a "film" in my book. Film ">" Movie.

Hey boss...I think the above response belongs on #149; the Bridget topic. Not on Spoilers;-)

(Evelyn)Hey boss...I think the above response belongs on #149; the Bridget topic. Not on Spoilers;-) Wow, I was really confused for a moment there. LOL. Now I know how the boss feels when we're OT.;-) On HS...after watching this, if it came to the US, I'd go a time or two for the eye candy...Definitely not one I'd see often, and you all know I try very hard to support the box office numbers. Yes, he looks incredible, but the film is not enought to tempt me. I too, find myself bored and had difficutly sitting through it a second time. However, it does not qualify for worst film of the year. IMHO,that distinction must go to From Justin to Kelly. Possibly the worst film of the era.

Gaah, how did that happen? Am blanking out, feel woozy, now. Think I'll have myself a little lie-down. ;-D

I didn't think HS was THAT bad! Agree Linda, about From Justin to Kelly! A complete stinker! (At least I didn't pay to get in!).

(Moon) It is a very disappointing film. I was bored........ Huge failure on Colin side. He gets an F and has to go sit in the back of the class. Colin slept walked through this one and that says it all considering that this was his baby Please, Moon, don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel! ;-) (Evelyn) I liked the soundtrack Really? The songs by themselves, or as they fit into the movie? I haven't even watched it the whole way through yet. I was so bored I had to skip through stuff and only watch his parts, and even then couldn't finish it in one sitting (also ran out of time that day). Loved him with MD though. Thought she was right-on-the-money as Vera.

(Dorine), Please, Moon, don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel! ;-) LOL! I can be his number one admirer but when criticism is needed I will not hold back. I think that's rather objective on my part. :-D What makes HS a double bomb is that he went after this... on peut dire garbage.

Just goes to show that a towel scene (however satisfying) cannot save a film. :-(

Yesterday, finally, I saw WAGW. I must say, I love the movie. Yes,it�s a fairy tale, but a good one. Colin plays convincing as always and Amada is better than I expected. My favourite scenes are the kitchen scene and of course the dance in front of the mirror (can�t get enough of it). The soundtrack fits very good. They do a lot of promotion (trailer etc.) for the movie here in Germany, even with a raffle in cooperation with H&M. I haven�t read any german reviews yet, but if I read something interesing I�ll tell you.

Thanks, Petra. Nice to hear reports from other countries and that WAGW is getting some good publicity.

(Evelyn) I liked the ending.....principally because it was over;-) (Moon) It is a very disappointing film. I was bored. (Linda) I too, find myself bored and had difficutly sitting through it a second time. (Karen) Utterly lifeless, among other things. (Dorine) I was so bored I had to skip through stuff and only watch his parts, and even then couldn't finish it in one sitting. A report of an alarming nature has reached me today. Two women fighting over Colin, a towel scene and there's boredom to be had. How can this be? This cannot be so. Oh at once to insist upon having such a report universally contradicted. HS is a bore. Is it certain, absolutely certain? What can be done? I know very well that nothing can be done? There's even a nod to P&P2: the engagement between colin and Vera is of a peculiar kind. From their infancy, they have been intended for each other. It was the favorite wish of his mother as well as hers. While they were in the womb their mothers planned the union, and now to be prevented by the upstart pretensions of a young woman without family connections or fortune. Is this to be endured, it shall not be! It seems high praise for this movie would be insincere, I'm glad to not find you so. PM, L�dumb, what CF fan has not been in the habit of brooking disappointment? And now HS, oh is such a movie to be another stinker? Are the shades of ODB's cv to be thus polluted? Yet I wish to see this movie and not rely so much on opinions which in fact are not my own. Do I not deserve such attention? Until then I will be most seriously displeased.

LOL at the heart monitor, Karen. Wasn't there a movie called Flatliners with Julia Roberts and Kiefer Sutherland? Too bad the title was already taken when they switched from New Cardiff.;-) (Evelyn)I liked the ending.....principally because it was over;-) Pfft! is that anything like "I'm banging my head agasint the wall because it feel so good when I stop?" ;-) (Moon)Both HG and MD steal the scenes they are in with him. . . I did like HG. Her role was the most difficult to play and she did just fine. I agree, I thought the jumping around nude scene was especially difficult to pull off, but Heather made it work. I also liked her in the drunken bit--very convincing. Minnie was good too, IMO, very sharp. Also, I thought HG's Mandy was less flighty and MD's Vera a bit more sympathetic than in the book, which I think is a credit to them both as their characters came off as less caricaturish. The ladies *almost* save the film. Mary S's accent was weird--Vermont by way of Brooklyn. This is where Mark Herman could have used a colonial strummpet on staff to tell him to tell Mary to cut that sh*t out. I watched her in Time After Time again yesterday--adorable movie, where she met and married Malcolm McDowell (er, in real life, not in the movie). But I digress. . . I do agree with Brenda, the movie is not *that* bad IMO, and I still say it's funnier than some of the recent rom-coms (though I realize that's damning with faint praise). IMO, it's better than SLOW and Londinium, that's for sure.

(Mari)IMO, it's better than SLOW and Londinium, that's for sure. LOL. Even Joe Dirt was. But still , it made me run to Episode 6!

(Sonia) Are the shades of ODB's cv to be thus polluted? LOL Sonia, nicely turned!

(Petra) Yesterday, finally, I saw WAGW. I must say, I love the movie. Yes,it�s a fairy tale, but a good one. Colin plays convincing as always and Amada is better than I expected. My favourite scenes are the kitchen scene and of course the dance in front of the mirror (can�t get enough of it). Now you know why many of us have seen it multiple times. And would see it a few more, if possible. (Sonia) Yet I wish to see this movie and not rely so much on opinions which in fact are not my own. Do I not deserve such attention? Until then I will be most seriously displeased. ROTF Sonia! Most excellently done!

(Sonia) Yet I wish to see this movie and not rely so much on opinions which in fact are not my own. Do I not deserve such attention? Until then I will be most seriously displeased. Beautifully done, Sonia! ... and I also heartily agree with the sentiments expressed therein! There's still nobody like JA to express sentiments so adroitly. ;-)

(Sonia) Yet I wish to see this movie and not rely so much on opinions which in fact are not my own. Do I not deserve such attention? Until then I will be most seriously displeased. Oh so beautifully expressed, Sonia. It is worth seeing, boring, but ODB is his AFG self, and therefore not to be missed. However to tell you otherwise that the film is one of his best, I cannot. Disguise of any sort is my abhorrence.

I read this preview on the teletext of a german tv chanel: A nineteen years old moves with her mum from England to the big wide world - namely new york, where she is searching her british dad. At the same time, she hopes that finally her dream - a musical carriere at the legendary broadway- will be fullfilled. Anybody ever read a preview with more mistakes ? I can tell you I nearly was giving this people from that channel a call telling them how rediculous they are but as they gave a 2+ (while 1 is the best mark) I could resist :o)

A nineteen years old moves with her mum from England to the big wide world - namely new york, where she is searching her british dad. At the same time, she hopes that finally her dream - a musical carriere at the legendary broadway- will be fullfilled. LOL...wow! Some people may be very confused when the go see the movie and think they have walked into the wrong picture. They only correct part is the bit about searching for her British dad......wonder where they got the bit about the musical career? Maybe when Libby says to Glynnis "if you don't get your hands off my daughter, you won't get a scene, you'll get a Broadway musical" Thanks again for translating, Petra!

LOL. I was also wondering about where they got the musical idea from. Your speculation seems very obvious.Very good :o))))

(Tress)LOL. I was also wondering about where they got the musical idea from. Certainly not from wearing the grey dress of an idealess cinema newcomer;-) Thank you Petra, it is going to be interesting to see how the film will be received in Europe.

How's this for the blurbs on the HS ads: "everything about it seemed lacking...dismally unfunny...forced..."

(Karen)How's this for the blurbs on the HS ads: Dismal;-(

(Mari) And where, oh where, is Eileen Green when we need her? She'd have a field day with HS;-) Yes, I imagine we would have a whole new medical lexicon, including: Hermanononucleosis - an infection caused by the Thompson-Fruchtmann virus, which produces loss of appetite, listlessness and utter boredom. Considered by some to be highly contagious, there are no risks to teenagers who avoid contact with anything touched by T-F. Some ancillary damage can be caused to one's funny bone through the continued leeching of vital calcium. Indicated countermeasures: No nekkid dances of joy.

(Mari)Leah; tell us your fave scenes on the Spoilers board. I miss my HD. :-( Fave scenes, fave scenes, this is sooo difficult, as I said, I was staring at the screen with what must have been a blank look on my face. One of the scenes that made me laugh, was when 'Caroline' ( I can't remember her name), says to Henry when he is looking for a speech in his left jacket pocket, "right pocket" - and I thought, okay so she's helped him dress.::)):) Another favorite scene was the picnic table at the end, although, who was the extra chair for? Me?? In this scene he looked like a real family man and the stuffiness was gone!

I have seen WAGW for the first time two days ago and am still recovering from the experience ;-) Another favorite scene was the picnic table at the end, although, who was the extra chair for? Me?? In this scene he looked like a real family man and the stuffiness was gone! I thought the butler was going to sit with them. tell us your fave scenes on the Spoilers board. I miss my HD. :-( One of my faves was when he was on the phone with Libby, worrying about Daphne. And then the one when he gets the album with Daphnes pictures. I don't know how to describe his expression in that scene, but I love it.

(Leah) I thought, okay so she's helped him dress.::)):) LOL, I like the way you think. It didn't occur to me once. "I want my Henry back!" really means "I wanted to put those BLP on you!" ;-) (Nitae) I don't know how to describe his expression in that scene, but I love it. And both times when he walks in Daphne's room. First as she sleeps (before he sees the tattoo) and later when she's gone. *sigh*

(Karen) Hermanononucleosis - an infection caused by the Thompson-Fruchtmann virus, which produces loss of appetite, listlessness and utter boredom LMAO, Karen! A worthy successor to Dr. Green's work. I read in JAMA this morning about a related illness called . . . Markolepsy - sleep disorder in which viewers of MH's work suddenly fall asleep for precisely 92 minutes.

(Mari), Markolepsy - sleep disorder in which viewers of MH's work suddenly fall asleep for precisely 92 minutes. ROTF, Mari! It got me. ;-)

Did you catch the article on Steenbursitis? A painful inflammation of the elbow caused by the excessive need to cover one's ears.

(Karen) Steenbursitis? A painful inflammation of the elbow caused by the excessive need to cover one's ears. ..and eyes. ROTF...a hoot, you two.

In order for Dr Green to diagnose, she'd have to see the patient. I don't think she ever recovered from L'dum.

LOL, Mari and Karen. In order for Dr Green to diagnose, she'd have to see the patient. I don't think she ever recovered from L'dum. Good ole EileenG. ;-) I miss her. The only way to recover from L'dumb is to tape over it. It worked for me! ;-)

(Leah) I thought, okay so she's helped him dress.::)):) My take on it was...she was checking his pockets;-)

Linda)My take on it was...she was checking his pockets;-) For what? His rod and tackle? Oh no, that was MLSF....

(Beedee)For what? His rod and tackle? LOL, I don't think even HD could mange to have his rod and tackle in his right jacket pocket;-)

A ha! Another homage to The Graduate. One the phone, Doug is complaining about the lack of merchandise for the Festival and suggests, in exasperation, musical toilet seat covers that play "Bridge Over Troubled Waters." Such cleverness. Such wit.

HA! Must be one of the parts I missed when skimming through or quit watching it and haven't gone back to. ;-) Watched The Graduate the other night...awesome! (Yes it's Valley Girl day here ;-))

i am rather confused : should this one go to firthology, news or spoilers??? anyway, i don't know if you've seen that one before, but the dvd info on the wagw website has a picture of dashwood i had never seen before : rather on the pained look side really. sorry again if this is old news. anyway will keep you informed about the local release next week...

Lord Dashwood will never be old news Sophie! I don't remember the picture but I do appreciate it! I'll never tire of those big brown eyes..Thanks!

Thanks for the picture Sophie. I don't remember seeing it before either. My first thought was it was the tail end of his surprised look when he knew details of the James Brown song. Could be wrong though. Haven't seen HD for some time. Just a few more weeks and he'll be mine ;-)

That's from breakfast the morning after the Orwood's ball. I believe that might be his look right before he says, "I have no idea where that came from," about the James Brown song.

Thank Sophie... Of all the good looking pics in that film, they had to pick this one... blue suit or not.

I want my Henry back. Oh, I do miss HD big time. Thank you, Sophie. He's so lovely.

I have finally been able to see Hope Springs and now must put in my I will declare it is a dear, sweet film, despite it's unfortunate plot.... ;-) Okay....it is not ODB's best....but nor is it his worst. The plot was thin and contrived in spots, but there are 'other things' that can keep a girl (like me) happy! The relationships seemed a bit forced.....Mandy and Colin didn't have much, other than sex, in common and Minnie and Colin never explained why they were together in the first place...so you couldn't understand why they would want to stay together..... MS was awful (all this IMO of course). She was supposed to be 'colorful' and eccentric, she came across as a caricature. She had an accent that grated (and that I have never heard before) and a wardrobe....wellllll....I guess that was the 'colorful' part. I laughed when MS was giving Colin 'something to help him sleep'. He states that he doesn't take prescription drugs, then she shoves a pill in his mouth, puts the glass up and pours....the look on ODB's face as he stands there with his mouth full was funny...like a five year old....MS even says "swallow"...and he does. 'Mandy's' brandy chug was not believable....she chugs about 30 oz. and then acts immediately drunk....er....annoying.....I can't even down water that quickly. She asks Colin if he can drive....she should have asked him if he knew where the hospital was, because I imagine she would need her stomach pumped after that much liquor. And now I'll say that I have a new fixation. After Mandy's dance of joy...when she gets ODB into bed....she helps him pull his shirt off. There is a bit where she runs her hands over his chest (a bit too quickly, I might add.....they really needed a drooler on the set as advisor....I don't think any of us would have done the job in such a lazy, bored manner...)...anyway, after the chest rub, she begins to talk and as she does this, she pulls on ODB's earlobes and runs her finger around the inside of his ear....I nearly passed out! GAHHHH (sorry Evelyn...put me down for toes, hands and now inner ears)!!!! Another part that made me chuckle...and it was very brief, but funny....ODB is at a park and sees children jumping in one of those bouncy castles....he looks at Mandy and the next thing you see is them dumping (really!) the kids out so that they can jump. This appealed to my sadistic side and I laughed. A part that bothered me was near the end. ODB is carrying Mandy and as they pass the celebration Mandy turns and, with a huge grin, waves at Vera. You aren't sympathetic to V, but I still cannot imagine doing that to someone.....it was as if Mandy were rubbing her nose in it a bit.... It may sound like there was a lot to dislike, but there were many good spots for me. The skin! And there was some....was GREAT. ODB looked really good. Nice legs, nice chest....lovely! It will be like SLOW for me (which, IMO, also had a weak plot....and ODB lookin' mighty fine). So you see Droolers, I am not afraid of you!! ;-D

(Tress) Mandy's' brandy chug was not believable....she chugs about 30 oz. and then acts immediately drunk....er....annoying And then isn't as drunk as she should be (i.e., passed out) when she gets back to the motel room. (Not used to seeing peach brandy in the large, economy size.)

(Tress)..they really needed a drooler on the set as advisor.... You are probably just right. Anyway, thank you for the "review" from a genuin (sp?) droolers point of view. You know where to focus. Even with a weak storyline/plot I'll look forward to seeing this one. Another part that made me chuckle...and it was very brief, but funny....ODB is at a park and sees children jumping in one of those bouncy castles....he looks at Mandy and the next thing you see is them dumping (really!) the kids out so that they can jump. This appealed to my sadistic side and I laughed. I saw the captures and wondered, what it was all about. I'll line up beside you and laugh. I've been wanting to do the same sometimes ;-) The earlobe thing - I daren't go there. It's morning and I really need to get some serious work done around the house, other than remove my own drool from allover ;-)

(Annette) thank you for the "review" from a genuin (sp?) droolers point of view I beg your pardon?

(Karen) And then isn't as drunk as she should be (i.e., passed out) when she gets back to the motel room. (Not used to seeing peach brandy in the large, economy size.) I was thinking that instead of performing the 'dance of joy' for Colin, more realistically the next scene should have shown him holding her hair back while she spoke to the porcelain god... LOL at the economy sized brandy! I think that is on the shelf next to the Night Train and Thunderbird...;-) (Annette) The earlobe thing - I daren't go there. LOL...ohhh...Dare! It's a wonderful 3-4 seconds! (Annette) thank you for the "review" from a genuin (sp?) droolers point of view... (Karen) I beg your pardon? LOL...I think Annette may be referring to my ability to block out all that is 'bad' and focus on all that is 'pervy and good' when it comes to viewing ODB films. I do have this tendency...my first few viewings are throw aways on any of his films. I seem to be overwhelmed by just his presence on the screen. The 'real reviews' should not be taken from me! Plot, acting...I leave that to the experts on Drool. HS is not a great film...ODB was fine, but gave a better performance in WAGW, IMO. He seemed 'distracted' at times in HS. HG and MS were tough for me to watch, especially MS. I did enjoy MD as Vera. Though she was perfectly difficult, but I guess I'm too practical because I couldn't understand why she would give up her job as a fashion editor (is that what she was?) to become Queen of Hope. I enjoyed this movie (and I did enjoy it) on a purely visceral level...

(Tress) I did enjoy MD as Vera. Though she was perfectly difficult, but I guess I'm too practical because I couldn't understand why she would give up her job as a fashion editor (is that what she was?) to become Queen of Hope. I know. I enjoyed MD very much. But the idea that someone like her would be interested in being the "Queen" of a festival in a piddly little town.... That was a big problem with the whole movie. Basically, nothing made any sense, aside from a few of the Colin/Vera scenes. Pretty much every single thing that happened seemed contrived and forced. I agree about the visceral appeal, though. I've thought about watching it with the sound turned off to see if I'd like it better.

(Rika) I agree about the visceral appeal, though. I've thought about watching it with the sound turned off to see if I'd like it better. Mystery Science Theater time? ;-)

(Tress) I think Annette may be referring to my ability to block out all that is 'bad' and focus on all that is 'pervy and good' when it comes to viewing ODB films I have a hard time with that being the definition of a genuine Drooler or even a fan. As I've said in the past, I don't leave my brain cells at the door when I go to see his films, nor do I consider criticism of his acting and/or movies an indication that I may be less of a fan or not a "genuine" and I take great offense at attitudes such as that. (Tress) HS is not a great film...ODB was fine, but gave a better performance in WAGW, IMO. From my perspective your scale is skewed. HS was definitely not a great film; it wasn't even a good film. It was a crappy film. Colin's performance was not good; he was OTT throughout. On the other hand, you are understating his performance in WAGW by comparison. Better? It was wonderful; he made that film. I haven't seen him that effective in ages.

(Tress) I think Annette may be referring to my ability to block out all that is 'bad' and focus on all that is 'pervy and good' when it comes to viewing ODB films I have a hard time with that being the definition of a genuine Drooler or even a fan. As I've said in the past, I don't leave my brain cells at the door when I go to see his films, nor do I consider criticism of his acting and/or movies an indication that I may be less of a fan or not a "genuine" and I take great offense at attitudes such as that. I seem to cause offense when I try to be funny. I deeply apologize and do not by any means try or want to make any a more genuine fan/drooler than any of you. I wish I could put this down to language-difficulties. It is most certainly not written to put anyone down. I consider myself a humble fan. I like some of his movies and I don't like others. Some I watch because of the movie as a "whole" and some I choose from my current mood or other factors. I'm not sure though, what will put a smile on my face after this. My apologies to all of you!

(Annette)I'm not sure though, what will put a smile on my face after this. My apologies to all of you! Don't apologize to me!! My Mom and many other family members have lived and spoken in this country for 50 years and still make errors in language and meanings. LOL, you all should hear her when she comes back from a trip to Germany and can't speak either language properly! I am very used to figuring out the meanings of those who come with a different language and hope that I get lots of slack when I speak my version of German. To hear that would put a smirk if not a smile on your face;-)

I understand what you meant, Annette, but just like I counsel people to stay away from statements about "we," it is best to speak as yourself and not on behalf of others or to characterize what a "fan" is. Can't get into trouble that way. ;-D There are many varieties of fans, not a one-size-fits-all situation at all.

(Tress) more realistically the next scene should have shown him holding her hair back while she spoke to the porcelain god... ROTF! His facial expressions alone would've been worth it ;-) (Tress) I couldn't understand why she would give up her job as a fashion editor (is that what she was?) to become Queen of Hope. (Rika)I know. (...)the idea that someone like her would be interested in being the "Queen" of a festival in a piddly little town.... Another missed opportunity to improve on the book. :-( (Karen) HS was definitely not a great film; it wasn't even a good film. It was a crappy film. LOL. But tell us how you really feel, Karen ;-) The good news is, should I ever get to see this film uh movie I won't be disappointed, my expectations being so low ;-) Thanks for your review, Tress. No worries Annette, I for one have thick skin and still make mistakes in my mother tongue and any other I dare speak.

I want to apologize as well...It was never my intent to imply that someone was more/less of a fan than someone else. I love this place and would hate to think any of you were mad at me. I'm sorry.

No one is mad at anyone, and I'm sorry you got caught in the crossfire.

(Sonia)The good news is, should I ever get to see this film uh movie I won't be disappointed, my expectations being so low ;-) V. good strategy, Sonia. I well remember the high expectations around here for ATA. Pulitzer prize book,stellar cast with Oscar noms..."a woman director". Were we let down! I learned that if I'm not overly optimistic, I'm invariably not disappointed (WAGW):-((

Well, I will look on the positive side...how much do I save? aprox 10-15 theater viewings, times two tickets each time...popcorn, drinks, candy. Wow, look at how many more times I can see LA and GWAPE. Pretty much every single thing that happened seemed contrived and forced. Colin's acting seemed forced as well. Other than L, I don't think I can say that about any of his films. I don't totally agree with the critics who said he phoned it in...but he looked uncomfortable, and IMO had no chemistry with HG. I find it strange since this was his project. Wot happened?

(Linda)aprox 10-15 theater viewings, times two tickets each time...popcorn, drinks, candy. Starting to sound like a calculating young Paul A there;-)

(Annette) thank you for the "review" from a genuin (sp?) droolers point of view... drooler--someone who lets saliva escape from one's mouth while overawed at the sight or presence of someone or something especially admired. We joke and exaggerate about it all the time on this board, as it is meant to express the degree of hero-worship some of us feel about ODB. It also often denotes an absence of thought when confronted with said object of worship. This happens to some -- not all -- of us, and can be a natural reaction to powerful feelings. Some people can really enjoy even a bad movie if it has a potential to feed such feelings, and there's nothing wrong with that either.;-) To genuin*ly drool as a result of these reactions doesn't suddenly disqualify anyone from being a fan (and where did the definition of a "fan" enter into those responses, anyway?) A genuin* drooler, drools. I have no idea what a genuine Drooler does, but this was not addressed in these replies. *I* think that the level of offense felt at these perfectly innocence humorous remarks is a bit of an overreaction ... IMHO.. and apologies on the part of the responders are neither needed nor called for. Again, MHO. Despise me if you dare... ;-) Do not apologize to me, ladies. All remarks were perfectly acceptable and some of them even funny. Thank you for your input. :-D

Young Lady: Oh! I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. (Jarring chord The door flies open and Ximinez, Biggles and Fang enter.) Ximinez: Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! (Cut to film: moving over Brengel drawing of tortures; epic film music.) Voice Over: (and caption on screen) 'IN THE EARLY YEARS OF THE SIXTEENTH CENTURY, TO COMBAT THE RISING TIDE OF RELIGIOUS UNORTHODOXY, THE POPE GAVE CARDINAL XIMINEZ OF SPAIN LEAVE TO MOVE WITHOUT LET OR HINDRANCE THROUGHOUT THE LAND, IN A REIGN OF VIOLENCE, TERROR AND TORTURE THAT MAKES A SMASHING FILM. THIS WAS THE SPANISH INQUISITION . . .' (Torchlit dungeon. We hear clanging footsteps. Shadows on the Grille. The footsteps stop and keys jangle. The great door creaks open and Ximinez walks in and looks round approvingly. Fang and Biggles enter behind pushing in the dear old lady. They chain her to the wall.) Ximinez: Now, old woman! You are accused of heresy on three counts. Heresy by thought, heresy by word, heresy by deed, and heresy by action. Four counts. Do you confess? Old Lady: I don't understand what I'm accused of. Ximinez: Ha! Then we'll make you understand! Biggles! Fetch...THE CUSHIONS! (JARRING CHORD - Biggles holds out two ordinary modern household cushions) Biggles: Here they are, lord. Ximinez: Now, old lady -- you have one last chance. Confess the heinous sin of heresy, reject the works of the ungodly -- *two* last chances. And you shall be free -- *three* last chances. You have three last chances, the nature of which I have divulged in my previous utterance. Old Lady: I don't know what you're talking about. Ximinez: Right! If that's the way you want it -- Cardinal! Poke her with the soft cushions! (Biggles carries out this rather pathetic torture) Ximinez: Confess! Confess! Confess! Biggles: It doesn't seem to be hurting her, lord. Ximinez: Have you got all the stuffing up one end? Biggles: Yes, lord. Ximinez: (angrily hurling away the cushions) Hm! She is made of harder stuff! Cardinal Fang! Fetch...THE COMFY CHAIR! (JARRING CHORD - Zoom into Fang's horrified face) Fang: (terrified) The...Comfy Chair? (Biggles pushes in a comfy chair -- a really plush one) Ximinez: So you think you are strong because you can survive the soft cushions. Well, we shall see. Biggles! Put her in the Comfy Chair! (They roughly push her into the Comfy Chair) Ximinez: (with a cruel leer) Now -- you will stay in the Comfy Chair until lunch time, with only a cup of coffee at eleven. (aside, to Biggles) Is that really all it is? Biggles: Yes, lord. Ximinez: I see. I suppose we make it worse by shouting a lot, do we? Confess, woman. Confess! Confess! Confess! Confess! Biggles: I confess! Ximinez: Not you!

(Joyce) ...the Spanish Inquisition LOL, I believe I get the point ;-) This is the place to be, let's enjoy it and the company of so many wonderful, talented droolers :-)

Some people can really enjoy even a bad movie if it has a potential to feed such feelings, and there's nothing wrong with that either.;-) No one takes issue with enjoying a bad movie; I enjoy Playmaker. As I said before, move on...

(KJ) To genuin*ly drool as a result of these reactions doesn't suddenly disqualify anyone from being a fan (and where did the definition of a "fan" enter into those responses, anyway?) A genuin* drooler, drools. I have no idea what a genuine Drooler does, but this was not addressed in these replies. *I* think that the level of offense felt at these perfectly innocence humorous remarks is a bit of an overreaction ... IMHO.. and apologies on the part of the responders are neither needed nor called for. Again, MHO. Despise me if you dare... ;-) *in Lizzie mode* "Thank you, Mary" ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

(Karen) I enjoy Playmaker *GASP* You do? Holy cow! It's the 8th wonder of the world! Can you give me *your* definition of enjoy? ;-) And SLOW is looooowwww on your list, to say the least, if I'm not mistaken? Will wonders never cease! ;-) ROTFLMAO, Joyce! My favorite of the Spanish Inquisition sketches. But......."our chief vepens are fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to"........Colin Firth. ;-D

Psst, Dorine,I take P. over SLOW too. Hey...it's got a story. Albeit, a lame one;-) The house is better in SLOW , though;-D Better landscaping;-) On the other hand, those rocks in P. But I'm digressing.....

ROTF, Evelyn! Hey...it's got a story. Albeit, a lame one;-) I think "It's a hard one to call" is apropos here, LOL. ;-)

"Thank you, Mary" ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Thank you, Lydia. ;-) (Dorine) I think "It's a hard one to call" is apropos here, LOL. ;-) Hey, the Celebrity Roast of Matthew Field wasn't supposed to start till Monday! Poor Matthew just don't get no respect..... Are you talkin' to ME? Say my name, I dare you.

MATTHEW, MATTHEW, MATTHEW I always love a dare. (Karen)No one takes issue with enjoying a bad movie; I enjoy Playmaker. HMMM...so do I come to think of it. (Evelyn)On the other hand, those rocks in P. Hot rocks, I call 'em. Makes me digress every time.(even though they look like fake boulders to me);-)

aaaaallright ! as dashwood fever is hitting the european continent, new pictures/stills are now available, for your pleasure : lord grumpy here seems torn between love and duty : "are you gonna go my way ?" and then, the worst haircut in the history of the cf universe, but thank god he ditched the embarrassing sunglasses. but then of course, you can't go all wrong with a type-e jag (*and* chuck taylors, ehehe !!!!).

Rika)Hey, the Celebrity Roast of Matthew Field wasn't supposed to start till Monday! Poor Matthew just don't get no respect..... Are you talkin' to ME? Say my name, I dare you. Thank *you*........! What a lovely mug! Matthew, Matthew...:-)

(Sophie)and then, the worst haircut in the history of the cf universe, but thank god he ditched the embarrassing sunglasses. but then of course, you can't go all wrong with a type-e jag (*and* chuck taylors, ehehe !!!!). Thank you too Sophie, but being a woman of a certain age I can look at that photo from the mid section of my verilux lenses and he and his hair *does* look good to me;-)

I wanted to expand a hair about the blurb I wrote about HS last month. Maybe my opinion will be altered when I see it all. He does look AFG! (The only real saving grace). BUT......I found it unforgiveably dull (but not assnumbingly dull). It did have it's moments, but that's about it...moments. Matter of fact, I didn't finish it because I needed to do some other things and didn't feel compelled by HS enough to put them off. I still haven't finished it. It's certainly above L'dum somewhat, but, by NO means a favorite, AFG or not. That being said..... I VERY much liked he and MD together. I thought they crackled as a bickering couple and she was dead on as Vera, IMO. I thought HGrm was OK, pretty much like Mandy should be, so I can't really fault her for that for the most part. OP was cute, but not in it much. I thought MS was surprisingly awful...including that accent. My main problem with it is the story. I'm in the "don't like the book" camp. It doesn't stand to reason with me that if I like the book, I'll like the movie and vice versa. In fact, I saw BJD the movie first and then read the book, but thought the movie storylines were much better. I was hoping something in the HS movie would transcend or expand on the book, but in fact, some things appear to have just been taken out or added unnecessarily, IMO. I couldn't figure out how they were going to make a movie out of such a slight book anyway. One of the things I didn't like about the book was the way the dialogue was constructed. Very Aaron Sorkin, West Wing/Sports Night repetition. Whether or not it was accurate speech patterns, I didn't find it compelling....though I do like those shows I mentioned with slight annoyances. I remember Karen mentioning that The Graduate seemed to be written in a similar manner. For one thing the movie was adapted by a more talented writer and filmed by a better director (Mike Nichols), perhaps. Turns out The Graduate happened to be on recently. I noticed the dialogue was similar...sparse, but it's a GREAT movie, to me. All the main actors were excellent. It actually had a very deliberate pacing and tone that was odd, but I liked and didn't get bored. I found the story more compelling, too. It made me realize that Evelyn may have been right in some respects, that the director was the problem. That's an even greater likelihood, as he also did the adaptation. In HS, I didn't like or buy that he fell for Mandy (and such a total ditz) just like that. I am well aware of rebound relationships, but he seemed too intelligent even for that to continue. A sap yes, but too intelligent for that. Maybe that's my own spin, too. All I can say is good looks don't make for an interesting story/film, esp with ODB. As evidence, I present...PM, L'dum, (and maybe SLOW, though I love that one anyway despite it's story flaws).

(Dorine) All I can say is good looks don't make for an interesting story/film, esp with ODB. As evidence, I present...PM, L'dum, (and maybe SLOW,.... Goodie, Goodie... She didn't mention Camille;-)))

Hi Dorine, I've seen HS twice, and pretty much agree with everything you said. I was not a fan of the book, either, and frankly, didn't see what the fuss (i.e., Nick Hornby's) was about. But I must also confess to being very picky when it comes to modern fiction--IMO, a lot of it is pure dross. I thought HG was fine in the role of Mandy, given the material (or lack thereof) she had to work with. I agree with what others (Karen and Rika, I believe) said about the whole booze chugging scene being ill-conceived and unrealistic--they needed some frat house consultants, or something. ;-) The only thing I've ever liked MD in was CoF, but I must say she also nailed Vera. IMO MS was doing an impersonation of a 1930s B-movie Brooklyn floozy, which ended up sounding like an odd combination of Jennifer Tilly (sorry Meg and Will) and Bugs Bunny. Last but not least is YKW. This one was neither for the dough or the show. :-( IMO, only Lon-dumb is worse. At least he's not pudgy and bearded in HS, but that's a very small consolation. How sad.:-( I won't be watching this one much. (I taped over Lon-dumb after one viewing.) I just don't care about the characters, and it is almost painful to see ODB in such a poorly crafted film. I guess I'll try it without the sound, too. ;-)

(LisaJH) The only thing I've ever liked MD in was CoF, Me, too. ended up sounding like an odd combination of Jennifer Tilly and Bugs Bunny LOL, an excellent description. I agree with what others (Karen and Rika, I believe) said about the whole booze chugging scene being ill-conceived and unrealistic I agree, too, but I do let my overall opinion slide at the part of the scene where he watches her chugging.....his expression just gets me. I find it oddly appealing and amusing. (One of my few shallow concessions in this movie). But that concession ends immediately as he starts driving. it is almost painful to see ODB in such a poorly crafted film It's actually mind boggling at this stage in his career, but as I told someone else, many higher profile and just as talented actors have had involvement in their own less-than-stellar projects and gone on to bigger and better things. It happens. IMO, probably the best thing for him was to have Disney hold off releasing it here. Those who aren't as familiar with him, but who may have seen him in HS, might have been less inclined to see him in something else, such as GWAPE, if they got the idea from HS that he's not very good. (Me) I couldn't figure out how they were going to make a movie out of such a slight book anyway. To be honest, I have had the same concerns with GWAPE,too. The difference being, I was riveted by GWAPE, with the exception of any parts having to do with her brother. Last note, it was quite obvious the level of effort (and maybe direction given)between WAGW and HS.

(Rika)Basically, nothing made any sense, aside from a few of the Colin/Vera scenes. Pretty much every single thing that happened seemed contrived and forced. Agreed. I recall one HS review that I thought had it nailed. The critic wrote something like, things only happen in this movie because rom-com conventions say they should--not because they make any sense or are in any way true to the characters. Re: Playmaker vs. SLOW. I'll take Playmaker any day. The key difference in my rating is that P never tries to be anything other than what it was intended: a "B" movie. SLOW, on the other hand, purports to be a bona fide film, but IMO it is so poorly written, chaotically directed, and inconsistently acted that I scratch my head in wonder that CF ever thought he was making something other than pure crap. At least with P, he said he badly needed the job and the money, and I can respect that. I cannot respect a choice such as SLOW.

(Mari) At least with P, he said he badly needed the job and the money, and I can respect that. I respect that, as well, and by no means could hold that against him. P was a different time in his career, certainly, but it doesn't make me like it any better, or be inclined to watch it more frequently, if at all. SLOW is just a guilty pleasure, for me, like Camille for Evelyn (Hey! mind if I speak for you, LOL), I imagine. I know I never said SLOW was a quality film to any degree. And certainly a curious choice for him at that point in time. I cannot respect a choice such as SLOW. IMO it is so poorly written, chaotically directed, and inconsistently acted that I scratch my head in wonder that CF ever thought he was making something other than pure crap. Certainly many parallels to HS.

O.K....I've gone and done it now... I've seen HS... My feelings? The first 15 minutes I was worried, REALLY worried. Like, what on earth was the whole legs over the head bit about? And I think Tress mentioned another, the whole banging the head against the glass door scene? Utterly bizarre and out of place and out of character???. And MS? You have all done a great job already mentioning how terrible the accent (and the hooker fashion sense!) but it just left me squirming with discomfort. A task I believe I was joined in by ODB, who absolutely looked completely uncomfortable (Yes, yes, still gorgeous) throughout, like maybe he was anesthetized. There were a few "moments" and I will watch it again to make sure it wasn't just my frame of mind on that day but I was hugely disappointed even though I had been warned to not expect too much. Someone had said he had phoned this one in, I say he sent a postcard and shorted the postage for delayed delivery. You have no idea how much it hurts me to even write this...Such a complete waste of his considerable talent! Dorine is right, it is good they delayed releasing it here, it just does not allow him to utilize his skills at all! I have mentioned before I feel myself to be ODB's Labrador, bounding, happy and tailwagging. Happy to see the master and be in his presence but this, this made me want to sleep in the doghouse (for one night anyway...) Again,

(Maria) this made me want to sleep in the doghouse (for one night anyway...) Maybe it's he, who should be in said doghouse. :-(

Warning : For:HS, SLOW viewing....have Episode 6 close at hand. And just for the record: I liked New Cardiff more than GWAPE. (Dorine)be inclined to watch it more frequently, if at all. SLOW is just a guilty pleasure, for me, like Camille for Evelyn (Hey! mind if I speak for you, LOL), Dorine, dear, you can speak for me anytime...you are far more eloquent;-D

(Me) many higher profile and just as talented actors have had involvement in their own less-than-stellar projects and gone on to bigger and better things. It happens. I wanted to clarify my previous statement above. I left out (and just didn't bother to go back to clarify right after I posted), what may or may not be an important phrase regarding what I was trying to say. ...... many higher profile and just as talented actors have had involvement in their own less-than-stellar projects at similar stages of their careers and gone on to bigger and better things. It happens. Not sure if this really made any difference, but I felt the meaning could be taken a bit differently without that phrase. And as a P.S. to that statement, some of those people have, in fact, gone on to win Oscars, etc. (Evelyn) you are far more eloquent LOL, that's debatable, but thank you. :-) (Sorry Karen, no more personal notes. ;-))

(Maria), O.K....I've gone and done it now... I've seen HS... What makes it hard for me to take and I've said it many times, he went after this! It was his baby from the start. I can't excuse him. Both MD and HG do better than him. How on Earth did that happen? The HS poster is still up still up at the movie theatre.

(Moon Dreams) What makes it hard for me to take and I've said it many times, he went after this! It was his baby from the start. I can't excuse him. Both MD and HG do better than him. How on Earth did that happen? Something had to have happened after his commitment to the project was in place.... Or, maybe someone out there has some "goods" on him, and thus we have L'dum (in which I actually thought he did a better job then here, argh!!) and HS. Yes, yes, thats it, blackmail pure and simple. And he was trying to send a rescue message out to the world by his performance knowing that it would seem completely out of place and totally bereft of his usual abilities and and or maybe Nick Hornby, like Mike Bender are just jealous jerks, out to discredit ODB by putting him in the worst possible projects and light...yo no se..

Que bien, Maria! LOL!

(Maria) And he was trying to send a rescue message out to the world by his performance knowing that it would seem completely out of place and totally bereft of his usual abilities LOL Maria. Or he was telling any future blackmailers, "this is the last time. I will no longer submit to blackmail"

(Moon)The HS poster is still up still up at the movie theatre. Take it down, please. I've watched HS twice, now. Sadly, I couldn't get through it either time without getting up and doing other things before finishing it. That says a lot from someone who can watch ODB in most anything until I'm senseless. I just sat through BJD, again, last night (when I should have been watching SLOW)...and I didn't move. I didn't want to miss a thing. HS does nothing for me. Yes, he's AFG, but that is beside the point. Very rarely is he not AFG. I think HG is fine as Mandy I don't really think she was miscast at all. MD was excellent IMO. MS annoyed the hell out of me. What were they thinking in having her play the part as a displaced NY hooker? No offense to NY hookers, but,Gawd, she was awful (No offense to any of our NY ladies, either)I'm just commenting on the NY accent...a bad one at that. As far as Colin, no, I don't think he phoned it in...he just seemed very uncomfortable. This was a disappointment to me as I thought he would have nailed it. I didn't read book until after I knew Colin had done the film. Maybe that's why I heard his voice delivering those lines so perfectly in my head... I did enjoy the book. The goods were there to work with, they blew it. IMHO.

(Linda)No offense to any of our NY ladies, either)I'm just commenting on the NY accent Getouddaheah, we ain't dat touchy!

It is indeed a dark day. I haven't had the opportunity to see this masterpiece (?) and perhaps am lucky, though I still would like to give it the benefit of the doubt. But if Linda and Dorine can't sit through it, then agree there has to be something dreadfully wrong. And Maria, it should be him in the doghouse. Something surely got screwed up somewhere and it seems as if all parties are to blame. Disney was indeed on the mark, and if they want to continue to contract him, keep HS out of the theaters and only market his better vehicles.

(Moon Dreams) What makes it hard for me to take and I've said it many times, he went after this! It was his baby from the start. I can't excuse him. Both MD and HG do better than him. How on Earth did that happen? LOL, I'm right there with ya! ;-)

ok, this is old news for you all, but i finally got to see WAGW today (opening day in paris). well, i'll skip the 3-4 reviews i read in the press today, since they generally skip ykw (this is a lame revenge, i know), unless when they exceptionally point out "one wonders what very good actors such as colin firth & eileen atkins are doing in this sugary & inane movie" (le canard encha�n�, btw i strongly suspect their -male- reviewer is a major closeted cf fan, but that's another story, i'll explain some other day). i also strongly suspect the brit reviews will be just about as bad (how many different ways can you say 'sugary' in english ?)... what to say that has not previously been written here ? let me check : a/ building a shrine to the hairdresser : i totally agree. by contract, this guy/girl should automatically be employed when mr f. signs for a new project. b/ the general afg-ness of the man himself here : ooops, are we playing the old domino theory here ? oooh, lookee ! hunk daddy just made it into the top three ! c/ we get running, stairs, tails, running-up-the-stairs-in-tails, etc. what a girl wants indeed... ok, ok, i agree, he's just gorgeous, from head to (visible, yet sandy) toe, and fantastically dressed as well, in clothes that *really fit him* (call me picky, but i wasn't always happy with the supposed perfection of the clothes in IOBE). alright, to be serious (let me grab my tomato-repellent-shield here) : i would rate his looks around 9.9999 (low estimate), but i am not always convinced by his acting. i am getting a little annoyed with his bewildered/stuttering routine (f'r chrissake, who does he think he is, hugh grant ?), but hopefully: a/ he doesn't blink that much when he stutters b/ i was surprisingly pleased with the way he delivers one-liners (esp. the ones w. mild profanities in them) c/ i just love the wicked look on his face when he pulls down the helmet visor (i definitely wouldn't mind to see him do more naughty bits, there lies the great success of his ernest in my opinion since he seemed paradoxically soooo much more dangerous than algy, but that's another story as well) d/ i also believe the kitchen scene to be an absolutely brilliant piece of acting (and pretty well written as well), and e/ i definitely got to appreciate his comic timing (the "no-yes/staying for the summer" routine w. jonathan pryce comes to mind). other than that... i don't know... i am sort of ashamed i paid 7.5 euros for this (you should have seen me buy my ticket, ah!), but in a way, it's better than what i expected ( i found amanda bynes very good, when i was dreading another american wonder brat, no offense to awbs, but... you know...). i tend to believe the movie truly ends when mother & daughter go back to the US, and the rest is just plain fantasy (just like when children from divorced parents fantasize about their getting back together). i just don't really buy henry's drastic changing as well, you know, his going back to his roots (ie leather pants) and all that... but then i am not sure the general timing of a comedy can easily and deeply accomodate the scope of such a topic. leather pants was rather cool, esp. the encore bit (the only moment when the audience unanimously laughed out loud), but i suffered a major cringe factor attack during the pretty woman routine. was also seeing double a couple of times: echoes of BJD (the return in the end, for instance), been there done that. also, i found the oedipian (oops, should that one be antigone ?) motif mildly disturbing (the two daughters fighting for daddy's attention, etc), and had this pervy idea all along that the movie was about to shift to a modern rendition of "peau-d'�ne" (particularly obvious when dad is "explaining" what a coming out party is).but i don"t know if it's actually good or really bad... about the audience: a half-full small theater, no-one under 25, mostly brits and americans (they usually laughed before the subtitles flashed onscreen, not that hey lauhged much, mind you), lots of middle aged women on their own (no, no, i am not joking), the occasional 30-something guy... poor screening conditions (a very bad copy, lava-lamp style at times, *and* a theater just above the metro line, thank you for drowning out the dialogue)... this one won't last long out here. bring on puffy sleeves, wigs & stained fingers, bring on GWAPE (it certainly has more future here with path� backing it) ! oooof, enough... sorry about this long post, but you know, i was itching to put this down on (virtual) paper.

Thanks Sophie for the "French Connection"...half-full theatre not bad..at matinee? That was the usual in the US too. (Sophie) but i am not always convinced by his acting. i am getting a little annoyed with his bewildered/stuttering routine (f'r chrissake, who does he think he is, hugh grant ?), Wait til you see HS. LOL. That seems to be his MO for comedy . The alternative is worse: remember in TIOBE: "He's my brother".*cringe*.

Sophie:"...pervy idea all along that the movie was about to shift to a modern rendition of "peau-d'�ne" (particularly obvious when dad is "explaining" what a coming out party is).but i don"t know if it's actually good or really bad..." Okay Sophie, time to unveil the depths of my ignorance... but what's the skinny on the term peau-d'�ne? I haven't heard it before. My translation says "skinned one's donkey." How is it used, particularly as you have used it? BTW, I enjoyed your all your input:)

(Sophie) i was surprisingly pleased with the way he delivers one-liners (esp. the ones w. mild profanities in them) You are excluding the "flying fart in space" one, aren't you? ;-D (Sophie) i definitely wouldn't mind to see him do more naughty bits, there lies the great success of his ernest in my opinion since he seemed paradoxically soooo much more dangerous than algy Absolutely and I think he plays (Jack) it that way: the double life. Even Algie is impressed that he's taken Bunburying to new levels.

(Evelyn) The alternative is worse: remember in TIOBE: "He's my brother".*cringe*. ooooh poor evelyn, you suffered a cringe factor attack on that one ? i thought it was just plain silly. but then, we might not have the same definition for cringe factor, ah ! the concepts escape us again ! master of the board, shall we open a "gentel(wo)men, let's set our concepts" related topic (aka deconstruction 101) ? (Louise) but what's the skinny on the term peau-d'�ne? ooops, sorry, that might have been a bit of an obscure ref... nothing special about the phrase per se, i was only referring to the fairy (??? hmmm... maybe not !) tale, made into a film by jacques demy. it's hard to sum it up, and it is also a monument as far as 60ies (kinda kitsch) french musicals are concerned (yeeessss, there is such a thing as french musicals, this guy -demy- filmed them all !). love it, love it, love it. the tale goes something like this: once upon a time, in the wealthy blue kingdom, there was a king whose queen died, he is inconsolable. but, but, but their daughter grows into a beautiful young woman who reminds the king soooo much of his beloved wife, heck! he figures he will simply marry her ! (lots of cunning plans and adventures happen later on). that's the pervy/antigone factor i was referring to. (Karen) You are excluding the "flying fart in space" one, aren't you? rhaahhaahawawa! nice try, nice try ! i was mostly focussing on assnumbingly boring one, something i think i could use daily as a matter of fact... btw, the subtitles translation for the flying whatever one was ab-so-lu-tely brilliant... i'll tell you some other day (sort of a pun i had never heard before, hard to translate back into english and all that)... (Karen again) (...) he's taken Bunburying to new levels or should we say to new... ermmmm.... depths ? uhoh, let's hope i won't get banned for that one but i definitely agree. next step can only be jekyll & hyde aaaalllright, enough already, first james bond, then jekyll & hyde, karen's not going to like this...

Banned, by moi? For bad casting suggestions? Naw, then I'd have to ban everybody. ;-D I look at what I do as "educational," am pushing you all to think outside the box. *gagging*

(Sophie) yeeessss, there is such a thing as french musicals Please, I'm trying to erase the memory of Eight Women.

(karen) Banned, by moi? For bad casting suggestions? Naw, then I'd have to ban everybody. true, true, then we'll have to transfer our wish lists to firthology. but actually, i was referring to the first leg of the sentence : i was afraid of getting banned for my lame bunburying-related joke... amusing tidbit: flying fart translation : "je m'en bats les kiwis". wahahahaa !

(Louise) but what's the skinny on the term peau-d'�ne? ooops, sorry, that might have been a bit of an obscure ref... nothing special about the phrase per se, i was only referring to the fairy (??? hmmm... maybe not !) tale, made into a film by jacques demy. it's hard to sum it up, Welcome Dennis Miller! Didn't know you were a CF fan. ;-D

I have managed to see WAGW 3 times since it opened on 25 July, and thoroughly enjoyed each time. All three times the cinema was full - of teenage girls! I did notice that when Daphne gives HD the album, he has a newspaper on his lap, and when 'he' looks at it, the newspaper is gone, when he puts the album on his desk, there the newpaper is in his lap again. You may wonder why I was looking so intently at his lap... Also, the scene in which Libby left, two cars were used, the numberplates were different. On another track... My TIOBE DVD arrived, and I am looking forward to looking at the Dashwood residence, knowing that one day I will be seeing Lord Dashwood walking in the gardens, and not just Mr Worthing.

(Leah) You may wonder why I was looking so intently at his lap... Certainly not! ;-)

(dorine) Welcome Dennis Miller! Didn't know you were a CF fan. ;-D hey dorine, i might be dennis miller (in drag ?), but then, is it good or bad ? you have to explain the joke : coming out of the woodworks, i have absolutely no idea who dennis miller is... how worse can it get when you have the jokes explained to you?

I managed to get another viewing of WAGW, last night (very unexpectedly). Enjoyed it very much as the crowd was an older group and it was a late night showing - the theatre was full and everyone enjoyed the comedy moments. There is one scene which bothers me each time I've seen WAGW, and that's when the doggy snaps at Henry. I can't make out whether the dog is snapping at Glynnis and Henry is just in the way or what. Other than that, I am enjoying WAGW.

(Sophie) hey dorine, i might be dennis miller (in drag ?), but then, is it good or bad ? you have to explain the joke : coming out of the woodworks, i have absolutely no idea who dennis miller is... Dennis Miller is a comedian here who used to be on Saturday Night Live for years and then had his own talk show on HBO. He was a host on Monday Night Football for a couple of years, too (why?!). He is known for erudite monologues with rants about the topics du jour and using obscure references as/in his jokes. I've found him very funny most of the time and generally had very similar opinions on things until G.W. Bush took office.

(Leah) There is one scene which bothers me each time I've seen WAGW, and that's when the doggy snaps at Henry. I can't make out whether the dog is snapping at Glynnis and Henry is just in the way or what. I think dog would snap at anyone except Daphne but I'd have to see it again. And luckily, I can in just a few days. :-) Keep enjoying HD on the big screen.

DH confirmed today that WAGW is sitting in stock room of local Wal-mart. He touched the box for me! I will get to touch on Tuesday!

(KathyK)WAGW is sitting in stock room of local Wal-mart. He touched the box for me! I will get to touch on Tuesday! You are sooo lucky. HD is still only (this is good enough for now) available on the Big Screen to me, and I can't get close enough to 'touch'.

Leah)HD is still only (this is good enough for now) available on the Big Screen to me, Oh Gawd, HD still on the big screen...DVD tomorrow, and that's as good as it's going to get for me;-) Not complaining, just missing big screen HD;-) I'll touch for you, Leah;-)

Dennis Miller is a comedian... a late thank you to you dorine for the explanation re: dennis miller. i have learned something today.

I watched WAGW with the director's commentary. Dennie Gordon was alright and entertaining, but one of the writers had some of the most condescending comments I have ever heard. If any of the British writers was given a DVD to preview, it would account for any bad reviews.

but one of the writers had some of the most condescending comments I have ever heard. Please share? We are strong enough for it I am sure.

I don't have WAGW DVD (still saving for LE). Question: Someone commented on the audtion of Peach and Pear ; can you pl. elaborate? They must be twins. Did only twins audtion?

I'd be too embarrassed to write them here. :-( [A lot of people over there actually "do" this/that sort of thing.] Peach & Pear's audition was no big deal. Twins sitting there doing some of the lines, looked to be improving a few of them (e.g., brother's name is Pineapple). Yes, I expect they only auditioned twins, though they only showed this pair.

(Karen) I'd be too embarrassed to write them here. :-( Why? We're not embarrassed to post the reviews and interviews, which are even more condescending.;-) [A lot of people over there actually "do" this/that sort of thing.] Her mistake was failing to say that it represents a very small segment of society which does this sort of thing. Colin said the same thing after going to that Cartier polo match: "I didn't think people like this existed anymore but they do." The film never purports to be showing a microcosm of English society. Everything is exaggerated for effect. For example, they show an alleged New York taxi--and the driver speaks English! C'mon, that is the most unrealistic thing in the entire film! But it didn't offend me. ;-) ;-)

(Mari)Everything is exaggerated for effect. The one that got me was Libby drinking orange juice out of the container....what an American thing to do;-D

Finally! Henry's in the house.....:-)))) But hep me, hep me... What was it that Jonathan Price says in that cute *out take* at the end of etiquitte 101? Something about Libby already being married to who? I loved seeing him laugh there. I'm taking a stand here and you can throw some of those tomatos from the film discussion at me and I will wallow in them gladly..... But, perhaps because it was a smaller screne, I thought young hippie Henry was adorable, though not so much in the *letter sceen*. I loved him in the market sceen with Libby and what is it she mouths after taking his picture? Looks like *AFG* to me.;-) So go ahead and *Fire*!

(Mari) Why? We're not embarrassed to post the reviews and interviews, which are even more condescending.;-) Because I hate stupidity. ;-D (Beedee) I'm taking a stand here and you can throw some of those tomatos from the film discussion at me One thing I hope people notice is that, at Drool, you don't need to apologize for holding a personal opinion. No one throws tomatoes and there's no need for you to duck anything. Interesting tidbit from the Director's Commentary though was that in one version Henry *knew* about Daphne.

(Karen)No one throws tomatoes and there's no need for you to duck anything. Oh pooh! I was planning on making some gazpacho and thought Matthew's fruit would be especially sweet! Forgot my winkie in the last post.;-) Can't believe I misspelled scene twice..... This late night Drooling is making me dopey!

Still haven't seen a tomato yet here that worth making gazpacho... ;-)

(Karen)Still haven't seen a tomato yet here that worth making gazpacho... ;-) Ok, but do you know what Jonathan Price says to ODB as young Henry (in the out take)that has him laughing so cutely?

Beedee -- What was it that Jonathan Price says in that cute *out take* at the end of etiquitte 101? Something about Libby already being married to who? I loved seeing him laugh there. "She's not who you think she is. She's married to John Travolta. He's not one of us, Henry."

He says, "Henry, she's not who you think she is. She's married . . .to John Travolta." I thought it was pretty funny too. (Karen)Because I hate stupidity. ;-D Then you must have hated Dennie referring to the early wedding scene as a New Jersey Sopranos type affair with Italian extras. ??!!? Shall I call the Italian-American anti-defamation league? Picket Warner Brothers? Write to The Guardian and ask them to take up my cause in their next rant on cultural stereotyping? Nah, I just laughed my ass off at her momentary brain fart in the knowledge that no malice was intended.

(Mari) Then you must have hated Dennie referring to the early wedding scene as a New Jersey Sopranos type affair with Italian extras. ??!!? Nope. Remember, I didn't say Dennie Gordon made those kind of deprecating remarks. Merely saying it was NJ/Soprano-like isn't condescending. Had the writer gone on to point out some particular behavioral aspect (like, making this up, can you believe these people eat with their toes), then maybe a call would be in order. BTW, I didn't imply any malice, just stupidity.

(Mari)He says, "Henry, she's not who you think she is. She's married . . .to John Travolta." I thought it was pretty funny too. Thanks Mari! It is pretty funny and OBD is so cute. A giggle moment.:-)

Mari, Kathy-- thanks for translating those last two words lost in JP's growly voice.

Did anyone find any more Easter Eggs? All I could find: Pear and Peach's Audition Brief interviews at end of Clothes Quiz Two outtakes (CF with JP)

(Mari)I was wondering when you'd post that Mail review from Evelyn's favorite critic.;-) LOL. Had to go view WAGW for myself. It was better than I expected although a bit too cheesy for me. But it was a farytale and all the little girls in the cinema loved it. Have to agree with others that Colin looked great.

Last night I watched half of WAGW with Amanda's commentary (a girl's gotta sleep sometime;-). What a hoot. I was totally charmed by, what I heard to be, a sweet teenager gushing about a special experience. I thought she was *real*, generous and fun. I loved the *inside* info like where it was looped, when it was not her - hair, arm, person etc., and the cute pieces of information like Kelly Preston wanting the VW bus. Am looking forward to the other half tonight.

(Bethan)Amazingly, the Sunday Telegraph (female reviewer) has a good review, for WAGW. "If you can cope with all the... (cliches) and with the pronounced incestual undertones - Rex Harrison was in his fifties when he did this sort of thing in The Reluctant Debutante but Firth is still very much a romantic lead - then WAGW is a surprisingly good bet. This girl wants a sequel." Ewwww where did she get the incest stuff. Not in the film *I* saw; Europe must have gotten a different version. In fact I think he looked v. paternal towards Daphne. You think that was a good review, Bethan? Hate to think what the reviewer is gonna say about the next one...you know, the one with the ole geezer with 5 kids and a pregnant wife who is lusting after the maid;-)

(Evelyn)Hate to think what the reviewer is gonna say about the next one...you know, the one with the ole geezer with 5 kids and a pregnant wife who is lusting after the maid;-) ...pronounced sexual perversity?;-)

(Evelyn)Ewwww where did she get the incest stuff. Not in the film *I* saw; Europe must have gotten a different version. In fact I think he looked v. paternal towards Daphne. I agree. Incestual, my foot!! I thought the strength of the film was the growing relationship between father and daughter, beautifully played by CF in particular. -I can't believe anyone would see anything else. BTW, he looks even better on the big screen!

(Evelyn)the one with the ole geezer with 5 kids and a pregnant wife who is lusting after the maid;-) *giggling* can't wait. I didn't pick up on any incest stuff, but what bothered me was that on the phone, you could see that Henry was in love with Libby, but when she arrived for the ball, he all but ignored her until Daphne forces them together. (Janet)BTW, he looks even better on the big screen! Does he ever!

(Leah)he all but ignored her Double post, yes I know. I'm going to have to re-look at this, because I have been advised (by a lurker) that here is a 'Darcy-like' smoulder, and that only because of the circumstances, (the formal ball) could HD not go to her.

(Leah)he all but ignored her There's a certain safety in talking to someone on the phone, especially someone you haven't seen or spoken to in 17 years. I put his reaction down to shock. He wasn't expecting her or maybe he was just thinking about her since it was their daughter's big night then, as if he wished it, woop there she is. :-) Regarding the incest stuff, movies tend to pair older actors with the sweet young thing du jour as their love interest so often that seeing them as father and daughter rings alarm bells in some viewers. There is good chemistry between AB and ODB which makes their relationship and the movie work. I didn't detect any chemistry between KP and ODB so maybe that was the case with the reviewer and she got confused. Could be she was identifying with AB while lusting after ODB ;-) Who knows what these reviewers are thinking. (Leah)I'm going to have to re-look at this, because I have been advised (by a lurker) that here is a 'Darcy-like' smoulder, and that only because of the circumstances, (the formal ball) could HD not go to her. Excuses, excuses ;-)

(Leah) I didn't pick up on any incest stuff Nor did I, but funnily enough the studio seemed concerned enough about it to leave Colin off the US poster for just that reason. They couldn't figure out how to portray the two of them without that implication. Maybe I should interpret the UK and European posters as a menage � trois. ;-D (Leah)I'm going to have to re-look at this, because I have been advised (by a lurker) that here is a 'Darcy-like' smoulder, and that only because of the circumstances, (the formal ball) could HD not go to her. (Sonia) Excuses, excuses ;-) If that's a smoulder, then he turned the dial to low. I don't see much of anything with that expression.

Finally! I can share all the excitement and "drooling moments" with you gals - I mean I got my WAGW DVD this afternoon, and watched it right after I was back home. You see, I'm still having big *sighs* now every time I remember ODB/HD in the film - he looks really really gorgeous...I'm getting speechless now...well, I don't need any excuse and will see the film over and over again. ;-)

(Sonia)I didn't detect any chemistry between KP and ODB so maybe that was the case with the reviewer and she got confused.....Who knows what these reviewers are thinking. I have a theory: It's the heat wave in UK...they're hallucinating.

(Josie)You see, I'm still having big *sighs* now every time I remember ODB/HD in the film - he looks really really gorgeous...I'm getting speechless now...well, I don't need any excuse and will see the film over and over again. ;-) Wonderful Josie!! Great to finally be sharing *sighs* over HD with you! He does just keep getting better and better looking does he not? (Sonia)I didn't detect any chemistry between KP and ODB so maybe that was the case with the reviewer and she got confused.....Who knows what these reviewers are thinking. (EvelynI have a theory: It's the heat wave in UK...they're hallucinating. LOL! You hit it on the head Ev! They do appear to have a sweet rapor and perhaps some *gerkin assed* reviewers just couldn't figure it out. I thought that kid (AD)was cute before but she just stole my heart by gushing over HD during her commentary. How cute is that?

(Leah) I didn't pick up on any incest stuff, but what bothered me was that on the phone, you could see that Henry was in love with Libby, but when she arrived for the ball, he all but ignored her until Daphne forces them together. The problem is he's just too damn good looking. How many dad's look that good, lets face it. But think not putting him on poster was not necessary. For that matter they could have put Libby on one side, Daphne in the middle and Henry on the other side. Nothing wrong with that. As soon as anyone saw the movie they would know there was nothing incestuous about it at all. Although ducking tomatoes, the first time I saw the scene where he's telling her as a Dashwood she has to conform to a certain mode of behavior their were a couple of his famous eye drops.;-) Upon subsequent viewings I realized she's a long drink of water, atleast appears so in movie and he was probably looking at her face. After listening to the directors voiceover she may well not have been there at all as her time was limited and he was just making the speech on his own. No matter. They did have great chemistry which a father/daughter movie does need, IMO. I think honestly he was still angry with Libby for not telling him about Daphne which might account for part of his reaction to her at the ball. And he was in an awkward situation with his fiancee, step-daughter to be, and all his costituaents there, so he really couldn't make a fuss. Kudos to him for dancing with her under those circumstances although I think he did it to please Daphne more than anything else. Loved the Moroco bit on the camel. They were both showing alot of leg and he had his hand in one of his favorite positions under her arm and breast. Glad to see he doesn't change his style. Thought kiss and "necking" was better than most of late too. Just loved the whole thing. Thought it great, and would have been so disappointed if he didn't come after them. That's what the whole thing was about.

(Pam)Just loved the whole thing. Thought it great, and would have been so disappointed if he didn't come after them. That's what the whole thing was about. Absolutely agree...and totally agree with Evelyn about the heat wave. As far as the poster I liked the UK version with Ian and Colin, and if Kelly had been in it no problems at all. I think the powers that be need to consult this board, we'll show them the way;-)

Overall, I must admit that I was quite embarrassed to be purchasing WAGW, but nave since fallen in love with HD. Yes it is a silly movie, but hardly worht the appellation of appealing to coprophiliacs and sadomasochists (I certainly don't think I fit in either of those groups, and would hazard a presumtion that neither do any of the other Drooleurs). *winkie* (Pam)Loved the Moroco bit on the camel. They were both showing alot of leg and he had his hand in one of his favorite positions under her arm and breast. Glad to see he doesn't change his style. Thought kiss and "necking" was better than most of late too. I nearly swooned at the circa 1985 (and present) scenes in Morocco. I thought he looked delicious in that tunic and vest and liked the messy hair. The commentary on clothing where the costumer described the process of turning CF into a Bedouin groom was wonderful. When Daphne kissed the photo Libby had given her of HD, I was so jealous. Oh, to have that photo... I think the part of the movie that probably makes me laugh the most is the discussion of "coming out." The psych study I'm working on right now is on depression in gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered individuals, so whenever I hear that phrase in the movie, it just makes me giggle.

(Soshana) When Daphne kissed the photo Libby had given her of HD, I was so jealous. Oh, to have that photo... Oh to have that man, would give anything to be Libby, I'd even be happy being Daphne, although I might have to be incensuous ;-) LOL

Could someone please explain who "OB1" is ? (Boat scene: WAGW). Thanks

I suppose OB1 is Obi-Wan Kenobi from Starwars (played by Ewan McGregor) :-)

Thanks. On my multiple viewings at the cinema, this got laughs, but went right over my head - I'm not a 'trekkie', I don't get the connection.

(Annette)I suppose OB1 is Obi-Wan Kenobi from Starwars Yes, and according to my sources...nieces and nephew...he taught Luke Skywalker several skills...Ian teaching Daphne how to walk with grace.

(Leah) I'm not a 'trekkie', I don't get the connection. (Linda) he taught Luke Skywalker several skills...Ian teaching Daphne how to walk with grace. Careful, "trekkie" applies to Star Trek fans not Star Wars fans ;-) Anyway, Obi-Wan Kenobi was THE Jedi master from the first Star Wars trilogy and taught Luke Skywalker everything he needed to know to be a Jedi. Plenty enough to cross lightsabers with Darth Vader prompting the dark lord to say "Obi-Wan has taught you well". I still use that line whenever applicable. Love that scene because it shows a common denominator between the American teen and her British boyfriend. Different continent, same pop culture.

Following up on a WAGW review Maria posted at 181: She also has a smile such that when she delivers the puppy face to her boyfriend saying, �Pleeeease�, you know he doesn�t stand a chance. Love that whole scene between Daphne and Ian at P&P's debutante ball. She's looking for the restrooms out on the patio (yeah right) and he lets her know she doens't fool him for a minute. She asks him to do something she knows he's game to try. He knows she's putting him on with the "puppy face" and he's ok with it. Daphne and Ian actually have the makings of a good, solid relationship. They appreciate the uniqueness in each other, they share the same sense of humor, a love for music and view and appreciate people for who they are not what they are. They're honest with and about eachother and don't shy away from confronting eachother if need be. Would Ian or Daphne have waited 17 years to make up after a falling out? I don't think so. Besides neither is willing to be bullied by others. Maybe HD and Libby could learn something from these two. Oh wait, they did ;-)

(Sonia) Daphne and Ian actually have the makings of a good, solid relationship. They appreciate the uniqueness in each other... One of my favorite Ian/Daphne 'bits' in the film is at the beginning. They are walking over the Millinium Bridge and she says something about not seeing her dad because he has a life already established. Ian doesn't offer any advice...or try to 'fix it' for her. He just says "yeah right" and keeps walking. He's letting Daphne work it out for herself...smart boy.

(Linda) Yes, and according to my sources...nieces and nephew...he taught Luke Skywalker several skills...Ian teaching Daphne how to walk with grace. In a boat?;-) (Tress) They are walking over the Millinium Bridge and she says something about not seeing her dad because he has a life already established. Ian doesn't offer any advice...or try to 'fix it' for her. He just says "yeah right" and keeps walking. He's letting Daphne work it out for herself...smart boy. But he does say to her that she's traveled half the world to see him. Enforcing his opinion a bit. I also think they have a chance for a strong relationship, but I think he could have been a little more understanding when she was trying to please her father. He knew that's why she was effecting the change. Also he was IMO prejudiced against the heirarchy. He told her so in the boat, explaining his life choices, but they were his. Henry was under scrutiny 24-7 so proper demeanor was essential and Ian must have understood that, unless he was moronic and I didn't get that from him, just the opposite. So I think he could have been a bit more understanding of her. And Henry was respectful of him which I liked, especially at the regatta when he openly spoke to him and smiled. Ian knew both his parents, she didn't. She was trying to get close to her father. For a 17 year-old girl she was under pressure from all sides, including him. Then when he wouldn't speak to her at her own ball I thought that was terrible. Wondered what he meant to happen because of that. Like it or not, he also had to accept the fact that Daphne was a memeber of a titled family. Just a different way of seeing some of his actions.

(FanPam) He knew that's why she was effecting the change Problem here is that Daphne felt she needed to make 180 degree change. She asked Ian for help to become a proper young lady but she took it to the extreme, totally obliterating who she is. Proper and well mannered doesn't have to mean dull. I mean really, did she have to go as far as ignore the dog? I thought the Queen liked dogs? Is it a royal affront to pet one in her presence? Wouldn't the Queen appreciate the "good dog" quality of the notorious little beast? I'm not familiar with royal protocol so any insight would be appreciated. Also, Daphne didn't crack a smile on any of the press pictures taken of her. Was there no enjoyment to be had hanging out with HD? Then when he wouldn't speak to her at her own ball I thought that was terrible. Terrible, immature yet understandable. Though it wasn't said, I understood that Daphne was so engrossed in becoming a Dashwood, she didn't stay in touch with Ian and eventually forgot their date. Does anyone like being stood up? Ian felt the girl he liked was buried away and if Daphne wouldn't bring her back, he had nothing to say to her. A man of his word. If there's one thing teens dislike it's people who are fake (at least that was true when I was a teen.) Like it or not, he also had to accept the fact that Daphne was a memeber of a titled family. Agreed. Argh, growing pains ;-)

Thanks to a dear friend, the ever-late Caribou has finally been able to see HS. I went back to read all the comments. So true! So true! :-( (Karen) Seems like they were trying to cover things up, make it more palatable to the audience, when the result only turns into an expanded music video. I actually thought this was the best part of the movie. Once, I was tempted to just go from opening music video, to driving video, to "I don't love you" video, to the carry me video and be happy. I guess that would kinda make it like the 20 min. LA preview and would really improve the experience. I found myself annoyed anytime anyone opened their mouths except OP and the little bit of Darcy-ism when it's CF's voice-over while Vera leans out the window and reads the letter. That bit was worthy of him. (MarkG) One bit I enjoyed that Brenda didn't was the opening montage of Colin on the bus trying to settle in various positions - and ending up looking utterly traumatised with grief; this was actually very powerful, That's the updated version to the opening of the Graduate and was very well done. Mark H. has his faults but he got that one edited to perfection. He must have had the song in mind when he filmed because the two are blended perfectly. When the song says: "it's hard to keep your head up when it's spinning round and round" Colin tries to lay his head down for the first time "when your world is upside down" Colin has his feet over his head the last"look for home" Colin looks through the window at Peterson's (Rika) First off, this is a romantic comedy, right? And the romance would be... where? That is exactly the problem. Charles W. has proven to me that he has ab-solutely no understanding of women and their interactions with men. Mark H. could have helped but didn't. We see our couple in bed together and the very next thing we hear "I'm not in love". That was as wrong as wrong can be. The romance should have been at the very end (at the very least). (LindaK) . I did feel that there was a lack of continuity. MH's fault. He missed the visual continuity boat with every scene. The most notable one was the end of OP's rant about the picture he has to look at. The scene ends with "I have to look at that jacka**." and the very next thing we see is Vera's foot. I can imagine MH wanted to make a point with those pointed toes but with the previous scene ending like that we needed to see a different body part.;-) (Sonia)HS is a bore. Is it certain, absolutely certain? What can be done? Change the ending. Leave out the bit about "hope your back holds out", let it end with them at the theshold to room 11 and Frasier saying,"...symbolic of their long life ahead." Cut to them coming through the door and fade to a drawing of the couple with a veil and tux added last. We need to know that Colin is going to make an honest woman of Mandy and not keep her hanging on like he did Vera. And then, give us the exhibition of drawings as the credits roll. The drawings are a great part of the movie and they just faded from view. It requires giving up the last three gags but it is totally wrong for Frasier's face to be the last thing we see. Just a couple more things: I have a soft spot for the pool scene. The light reflecting off the water and over Colin was perfect. It's fun to think of while I swim laps. Colin shows what a great actor he is when OP says, "I thought I was going to sit for a real portrait." With a sweep of his hand and a glance, he conveys: "As you see before you. That IS what I am doing." Well done. He's still got it but he needs to choose better writers and directors in the future.

Thanks Caribou.... Sonia)HS is a bore. Is it certain, absolutely certain? What can be done? (Caribou)Change the ending.... But, but.... That's my favorite part.....:-(((( I fast forward all the way to the end!

(Evelyn)I fast forward all the way to the end! I thought that was just so it would be over sooner.:-) I don't mind the gags--I really like to see Colin do "ol, my aching back". They just aren't appropriate for the end if you want the audience to go away feeling warm and fuzzy. I suppose changing it from premiere in London to big screen in FL is too much for which to hope. But, I do.

Have a great time, Caribou. I would not be surprised if he showed up for Telluride, so don't forget your camera. And Ada's right, you may need oxygen. The air's pretty thin there already, and seeing the stubbly one on screen or in person may do you in. We will all be with you in spirit. Can't wait to hear your report.

Oops. Somehow I posted on the wrong topic. Back to school for me.

(Hen)seeing the stubbly one on screen or in person may do you in. He wasn't there and I am so glad. I was full of fear and trepidation--I had tremblings, and flutterings and pains in my head and I know not what! If he had been planning to come, I wouldn't have survived. Now, about the stubbly one on screen! Woo! Hoo! I had braced for stubble put didn't account for the affect of stubble over moving dimples, stubble over a wide smile, stubble while he (like Edward Pettigrew) asked with his eyes do you see, do you understand. There's one scene where that little bit right under is lip is moving at the very edge of the screen. Ahhhhhhh!

(Caribou)I had braced for stubble put didn't account for the affect of stubble over moving dimples, stubble over a wide smile, stubble while he (like Edward Pettigrew) asked with his eyes do you see, do you understand. There's one scene where that little bit right under is lip is moving at the very edge of the screen. Ahhhhhhh! Stubble over moving dimples, stubble over a wide smile, hands - I will absolutely die when I see this! OMG, which Edward Pettigrew look are you referring to? Is it the one where he's telling her that he's sorry and that he's been a child? I was full of fear and trepidation--I had tremblings, and flutterings and pains in my head and I know not what! And altitude had nothing to do with this;-) Thanks for your beautiful description of your entire experience, Caribou!

I scribbled notes when I couldn't go to sleep last night and again on the plane. I hope it will be alright to just put them down in no particular order. I will start at the beginning and then anything goes. --The photography is so crisp, you can see the layers and veins in the onion Griet cuts for soup. --Her father looked very crippled but wasn't gross. The meat market on the other hand was graphic. --When Vermeer and Griet first touch hands, it is powerful like Darcy and Lizzy. --I laugh the most in retrospect at his "kick butt" scene. Like in The Advocate, he looks like he is going to kill someone. Then, all the women of the house try to stop him and he looks like he would if he was trying to get away from all of us!:-) --Only saw one hat which was tasteful. Black, wide brim--very appropriate for Colorado but very brief. The rest of the time it's just that light brown mane. --The slanting picture is the two of them under his cloak looking through the camera obscura. --Solitary women is as important to the movie as to Vermeer himself. Everyone gets to be the only one on screen at some point. Then, to fill the wide screen, there is often a geometric or color display behind or around them. One scene has two colorful palettes on the wall behind CF and leaded windows on the other. --I loved his costumes. That blue one, a brown tunic tied together at the shoulders, the long tan cloak, cute little "pilgrim" shoes when he comes through the trap door into the attic (like MLSF), and his white shirt with those little spaghetti-strap ties instead of buttons and with that crisp photography. Wow! --First time I remember CF rolling dice--unless he does in 1000 Acres. --His first words are a voice over fight with Catarina: It will be finished soon. (Didn't really like how that was all too true of my adventure.) --First glimpse -- he pulls back an ornate curtain and viola! --Second glimpse-- can't wait to see this as a still--puffy white shirt, leaning on wall near bed after birth of baby, and glances over his right shoulder. --Griet doesn't end up pregnant but one time they spanned past her belly which looked larger but then decided not to make it definitive. Can you think of anything else? If you ask, it might jog a memory.

How was the scene when Griet's ears are pierced? I just bought an Interview Magazine with an interview with Scarlett and she mentions what a powerful scene it was. I'll try to type it up later if it's not online. Was too tired last night. And how's the kid who plays that bratty kid? (can't believe I've had a brain freeze on her character name). And TW? And....oh hell, how were all the main actors? Perfectly cast?

What about the piercing? Are his hands the focus of this scene? I know you are still on cloud nine and will be for a few days. I am so proud of you for asking all those questions. Yay Caribou!

(Caribou)--When Vermeer and Griet first touch hands, it is powerful like Darcy and Lizzy.. I've come undone. The handing of Lizzy in the carriage scene, and when he takes her hand for the dance at Netherfield still make me tingle no matter how many times I watch them. I can't imagine what this will do to me. Are there any scenes where the two of them come together? I know it's all done without sex, but are there any scenes between the two of them that will make us crazy? Thanks again, Caribou, for your wonderful report.

(Hen)Pettigrew look are you referring to? Is it the one where he's telling her that he's sorry and that he's been a child? Sorry. Unfortunately, it was the one when he unveils his square phonograph. A mixture of pride and uncertainy. (Dorine)How was the scene when Griet's ears are pierced? Everything it was meant to be. If that wasn't really Scarlett's ear, I want to know how they did it. She gasps and the blood flows and he puts pressure on it with a piece of gauze and then puts his right arm around her and gives just the tiniest little squeeze. Then the tear trickles down and he wipes it with his thumb and wipes over just the smallest part of her lower lip. And, then suddenly makes his move -- away. Powerful! I think we gasped but I'm not sure. (Dorine)And how's the kid who plays that bratty kid? (can't believe I've had a brain freeze on her character name). Me, too but someone needs to look it up because that's the only word he says during that 5 minutes. I'd say she interesting. She's very beautiful, plump with lots of brown curls but somehow that just adds to her mischief. Will have to think about that more. (Dorine)And TW? My dear Dr. Chausable!!!!! Shocking! (Dorine)And....oh hell, how were all the main actors? Perfectly cast? I'd say. Tanneke was more chummy than I expected. Cillian Murphy (Pieter) will make all the teenage girls swoon. Old mistress was a blend of likeable and not. Catarina was a blend of beautiful and not. (Hen)Are his hands the focus of this scene? A lot is done at the distance you see from the photo but I think they get a little closer when he wipes her tear but her face is still in that shot.

(Dorine)I've had a brain freeze on her character name) The bratty child was called Cornelia. (Caribou)She gasps and the blood flows and he puts pressure on it with a piece of gauze and then puts his right arm around her and gives just the tiniest little squeeze. Then the tear trickles down and he wipes it with his thumb and wipes over just the smallest part of her lower lip. And, then suddenly makes his move -- away. OMG. I can't wait to see this. Does Vermeer appear in the film to really fall for Griet, or did you get the impression that he keeps his distance? If so, does he make it seem that this is a difficult thing for him to do?

--First glimpse -- he pulls back an ornate curtain and viola! OMG! --When Vermeer and Griet first touch hands, it is powerful like Darcy and Lizzy.. Finally! She gasps and the blood flows and he puts pressure on it with a piece of gauze and then puts his right arm around her and gives just the tiniest little squeeze. Does Griet pierce one ear herself as in the book? Or is it made to look as if he only does it? Describe the scene when all hell breaks loose because of the earrings, when Griet loses her job. It sounds like this is the film that will break him for other important roles.

Dorine)How was the scene when Griet's ears are pierced? (Caribou) Everything it was meant to be....Then the tear trickles down and he wipes it with his thumb and wipes over just the smallest part of her lower lip. OMG! Is it as erotic as it is in the book? I can only imagine more so to actually see him do it. *really big sigh* Thanks so much for all the info, Caribou! You know it's more than appreciated. :-D

Caribou, were there any other glaring omissions (not counting the brother stuff) that have come to mind?

Are there other set-ups that match his paintings? Do we get to see him paint other scenes? Do we get the POV from the camera obscura at any time?

Actually, that would've been a good question to ask PW. Why he changed the ear-piercing scene because Griet did it herself in the book? Not that I'm complaining, mind you. ;-D (Am looking forward to that electrifying touch) Griet doesn't end up pregnant but one time they spanned past her belly which looked larger but then decided not to make it definitive. Was this in the book? Must reread the ending, after Vermeer's death. Cillian Murphy (Pieter) will make all the teenage girls swoon LOL! During the end credits of 28 Days Later (in which he stars), there was a thank you to Cornell Chin, who was probably hired to buff up Cillian's bod, just like Colin's for BJD. ;-D It gave me a little sense of deja vu. --Second glimpse-- can't wait to see this as a still--puffy white shirt, leaning on wall near bed after birth of baby, and glances over his right shoulder. Speaking of which, was he wearing a paternity cap after that? If so, what did it look like? Always wanted to know. Love the details and want to see this movie tomorrow!!!!

(LindaK)Are there any scenes where the two of them come together? I know it's all done without sex, but are there any scenes between the two of them that will make us crazy? I think I missed this one because you posted as I composed the other answers. If I miss any, just draw my attention to it. Okay, answer. The slanting heads picture and scene, the first hand touch and then the piercing are the most notable. But if you liked Matthew, Nimi and the oil pastels you will have a treat with Johann, Catarina and the pianoforte. And, then the very persuasive Johann as he gives the studio key to Catarina that will lock Griet in the attic so she can covertly do more work for him. (LindaK)Does Vermeer appear in the film to really fall for Griet, or did you get the impression that he keeps his distance? If so, does he make it seem that this is a difficult thing for him to do? Just my opinion but to me, what he finds in Griet is his soul mate, someone who really, truly gets it, long suspected but ultimately confirmed with the cloud scene. Without barriers it would need to result in a physical union as an expression of their non-physical union. But, this is brilliant because of barriers, constraint, and repression. Desparately wanting to and not. (Moon)Does Griet pierce one ear herself as in the book? Or is it made to look as if he only does it? They totally dropped the whole issue of the other ear which would have cluttered the flow. I didn't mind it at all. The scene is set: the man, the woman, the needle. She gives the needle to him and says, "You do it." The only words spoken in the entire five minutes. As PW said, it worked for me!:-) (Moon)Describe the scene when all hell breaks loose because of the earrings, when Griet loses her job. You can hear Hurricane Catarina building to a fury in the hall and she bursts through the door with weeping and wailing and accusations all around. "How could you?", she says to him. When she finally sees it she declares it obscene. All attempts to calm her fail and it culminates in him forcibly keeping her from destroying GWAPE with the pallet knife. More hands,ladies! (Dorine)Is it as erotic as it is in the book? Definitely! I can only imagine more so to actually see him do it. *really big sigh* Exactly! (Dorine)Caribou, were there any other glaring omissions (not counting the brother stuff) that have come to mind? There is no quarantine or deadly disease. No rude comments from the barge men, that I heard. Pieter proposes but we don't actually see a wedding or her new life with Pieter. No brother and I don't remember a sister either and certainly not the death of one. Only one brief Sunday visit and that at church, not home. I'm sure lots of dialogue changed but don't know what. What was there satisfied me so, it's hard to remember what wasn't there. (Moon)Are there other set-ups that match his paintings? I think they are all over the place and I don't know enough to find them, yet. Maybe that pianoforte one. But, we are going to have a blast when we can go scene by scene with the DVD. PW seemed to really appreciate art and I think I read that he also encouraged the set designer to look at other paintings of Dutch masters so the whole thing wouldn't be just like one Vermeer after another. Do we get to see him paint other scenes? Not sure I can do a complete list but, I'll try. There's the one he finishes, which is Mr. Van's wife wearing Catarina's yellow with ermine(?) jacket. Then the one he starts after seeing Griet washing the windows. That one has the lady behind the chair and for the first time ever Griet moves an object and then he agrees and does it that way. Then he simultaneously paints a group one for Mr. Van and GWAPE. But I don't remember seeing the group one at all. There are lots of paintings on the walls. I remember one of Christ and a landscape. The one with a lady holding a wine glass and wearing red satin--the disgraced maid was posing--was at Mr. Van's house and the room seemed full of them. Do we get the POV from the camera obscura at any time? We do! Right after the slanted picture and right before she jumps out of her skin when she realizes he is under there with her!

Actually, that would've been a good question to ask PW. Why he changed the ear-piercing scene because Griet did it herself in the book? ) I think in the book she does one ear and he insists the other be done even though we cant see it. Then, he pierces that one. Way to complicated to explain with only three words. "You do it." I wouldn't have had the heart to mention any change from book to film to PW. He even said they were worried about that and mentioning it at the intros seemed to be doing damage control before it had begun. (Karen)Not that I'm complaining, mind you. ;-D (Am looking forward to that electrifying touch) See, that's where I am. I liked what was there that I didn't mind what wasn't with exception being I can always stand more ODB. Griet doesn't end up pregnant but one time they panned past her belly which looked larger but then decided not to make it definitive. Was this in the book? Must reread the ending, after Vermeer's death. I don't think so but there was some speculation here a long time ago that the baby would look like Vermeer. Sorry, shouldn't have mentioned that one until asked. (Karen)Speaking of which, was he wearing a paternity cap after that? If so, what did it look like? Always wanted to know. Thankfully, no. I really liked seeing those locks as much as possible. They opted for tall, lean and manly instead of risking silly and that's a good thing. Must be another change from the book. (Karen)Love the details and want to see this movie tomorrow!!!! I feel like I am thoroughly spoiling all the best surprises but, if you still want to see it, we haven't gone too far yet.

(Caribou)I feel like I am thoroughly spoiling all the best surprises but, if you still want to see it, we haven't gone too far yet. Spoil away, I have to live on these details for a while yet until it is released.

(Leah), Spoil away, I have to live on these details for a while yet until it is released. Please do. We come at our own risk. ;-) I don't think so but there was some speculation here a long time ago that the baby would look like Vermeer. Sorry, shouldn't have mentioned that one until asked. This one needs explaining. ;-) Do we get to see him peeking at her very long hair? That was very sexy in the book. I'm sure lots of dialogue changed but don't know what. What was there satisfied me so, it's hard to remember what wasn't there. That is the best compliment that can be paid to a book adaptation. (Karen)Love the details and want to see this movie tomorrow!!!! Toronto, Toronto, Toronto!!! ;-D

(LindaK)Does Vermeer appear in the film to really fall for Griet,... (Dame Caribou)Just my opinion but to me, what he finds in Griet is his soul mate, ...Without barriers it would need to result in a physical union as an expression of their non-physical union. But, this is brilliant because of barriers, constraint, and repression. Desperately wanting to and not. In the book, I always felt that he fell in love with the GWAPE on the cavas and Griet was his muse for it. Rather than Griet as the maid. In other words, if she hadn't been his inspiration, would he still have had those feelings for her. Does that come across in the film at all? Ultimately, to me, a film stands on its own merits ...not how closely it follows the book. Different mediums...unless you're into Harry Potter.

(Variety review) the film builds to sensual highlights that consist of a resistant Griet finally consenting to removing her white cap to reveal her resplendent hair (Moon) Do we get to see him peeking at her very long hair? That was very sexy in the book Yes! Can't believe I forgot to ask about the other very erotic part of the book for me 'til I read the review and Moon's question. How did that come off, Dame Caribou? My guess is quite well as Todd McCarthy points it out. But, I like hearing your descriptions as a Firth fan. :-)

Having seen most of his films, how would you rank this one, Caribou. ...to me sounds like it's his best. Showcasing his outstanding acting skills.

And he looks so damn good with long hair! Moon (the one that prefers period pieces) Toronto, Toronto, Toronto!!!

Oh, and Caribou, another question..... The picture on the poster.....did that shot actually happen in the movie, or just done that way for the poster? Thanks so much for all your answers! :-D

Didn't she already answer that one? Something to do with the camera obscura? What about the actors' names in the opening credits?

(Karen) Didn't she already answer that one? Something to do with the camera obscura? I think she was referring to the very first picture that was out...the side shot. She has two different headdresses on, I believe.

I think she was referring to this one, not the poster....

Oh, you're talking about one, where he's touching her shoulder and she's wearing the earring. Gotcha!

(Caribou) She gives the needle to him and says, "You do it." The only words spoken in the entire five minutes. As PW said, it worked for me!:-) Works for me too! If it's half as erotic on screen as it sounds, I'll have to remind myself to breathe during those five minutes, lol. (Caribou)I feel like I am thoroughly spoiling all the best surprises No, no, don't feel guilty! This *is* the spoiler board, after all! (Caribou) but, if you still want to see it It's gonna take an act of God to keep me away from this film, lol. I'm just hoping it'll stick around for a while. I only got one shot at SIL & TIOBE :(

I'm soooo confused! I tried to follow and quote that picture discussion but I'm all turned around like I was after getting gas in Durango yesterday. The one above, the slanted picture: They are under his cloak right when she is stunned by the image and he is turning to see if she understands. Then, she comes out of her trance and flees the inappropriate situation as soon as she realizes he is there. The other one, the poster on firth.com: I think that's a publicity shot. That is a cropped version of her looking just like the painting and I don't think he touched her at that point. To me, the poster adds the creator to his creation and shows how much in love he is. No! Wait! maybe he does lean his head on hers right after inserting the earring but I don't think she had turned to look like that yet. Toronto ladies, take careful notes, so you can clear up all these points of doctrinal import!:-) (Moon)Do we get to see him peeking at her very long hair? (Dorine)How did that come off? He is a man who won't take no for an answer when it comes to his art. He casually tells her to take off her headdress because it interferes with his being able to see her face. She is shocked and absolutely refuses. He dismisses it as an unimportant issue and seems disinterested and tells her she must (remember he is very persuasive). She won't budge. Trying to act like he doesn't care and isn't giving in, he tells her there are some scarves in the storeroom. Then, little Mr. Disinterested makes a well-timed appearance at the storeroom. She looks beautiful, radiant, bathed in a golden light and like he has just walked on her right before she steps into the bath. It is as intimate as young Richard Herncastle walking through the door and seeing Julie like a porcelain statue. And, IMO, just as effective and more in keeping with the spirit of the piece. Nothing blatant, nothing glaring, all understood!!!! (Evelyn)Having seen most of his films, how would you rank this one? I'll have to get back to you on that one.

(Moon)Do we get to see him peeking at her very long hair? (Dorine)How did that come off? (Caribou)He is a man who won't take no for an answer when it comes to his art. He casually tells her to take off her headdress because it interferes with his being able to see her face. She is shocked and absolutely refuses. He dismisses it as an unimportant issue and seems disinterested and tells her she must (remember he is very persuasive). She won't budge. Trying to act like he doesn't care and isn't giving in, he tells her there are some scarves in the storeroom. Then, little Mr. Disinterested makes a well-timed appearance at the storeroom. She looks beautiful, radiant, bathed in a golden light and like he has just walked on her right before she steps into the bath. It is as intimate as young Richard Herncastle walking through the door and seeing Julie like a porcelain statue. And, IMO, just as effective and more in keeping with the spirit of the piece. Nothing blatant, nothing glaring, all understood!!!! Caribou, the front part of my head is buzzing and tingling, my stomach thinks it is on Mr Toad's wild ride and I've got nonstop chills that start in my diaphragm, race up my back and down my neck! Please never stop writing about your GWAPE experiences. I am moved and affected! What I mean is, thanks!

Yes. Big thanks, Caribou! That Cillian sure is a cutie too!

(Caribou)We do! Right after the slanted picture and right before she jumps out of her skin when she realizes he is under there with her! Better and better. (Caribou)Then, little Mr. Disinterested makes a well-timed appearance at the storeroom. She looks beautiful, radiant, bathed in a golden light and like he has just walked on her right before she steps into the bath. It was at this point in the book (on my first read) that I thought something physical would happen between them. I held my breath as I read it, and just now realized I was holding it, again, reading your description of this scene (Karen)Love the details and want to see this movie tomorrow!!!! Forget tomorrow, I want to see it now! Moon, if you say Toronto one more time...Gawd, I want to go. (Karen)Was this in the book? Must reread the ending, after Vermeer's death. Kind of like the ending in V. except we come away knowing Cecil is pregnant. Keep the spoils coming, Caribou. As you can tell we love being spoiled;-)

(LindaK)Forget tomorrow, I want to see it now! Moon, if you say Toronto one more time...Gawd, I want to go. Better watch out! Check the fares now, get a room while you can, get all the laundry done! That's more than I felt Friday night, Saturday night, or Sunday morning. Friday, I posted, guess I'd rather be in Colorado. Let it go and slept like a baby without a second thought. Saturday AM, I thought CO is so nice this time of year. Just exactly where is Telluride? But, GWAPE has probably already come and gone. By, Saturday PM, I had come full circle and after trying to make it happen all day had decided 15 hours out of 48 in a car was the deal breaker. Got a peaceful night's sleep. Sunday AM, I woke up and started composing my apology to post. Ain't No Mountain High Enough had come to a screeching halt. DH was going to have to turn in his crown. I felt like that caribou on the road that Karen posted looked. It was bleak. But, DH was dearer than dear and kept gently pushing and nudging and encouraging and coaching. I said, "You just don't want to hand that crown back in." He said, "Do you blame me?" He put me on a plane to Durango and I rented a car and drove 2 and 1/2 hours up to Telluride. Just goes to show you, you never know.

(Caribou)But, DH was dearer than dear and kept gently pushing and nudging and encouraging and coaching. I think that crown needs some jewels. Wonderful DH, Caribou.

Gaagh.. Caribou , the Telluride Saga gets more intriguing by the minute. Plane and rental car!! Question: Was it dearer than dear Mr. Caribou who thoughtfully posted on Sunday telling us you were there & you had gone to get the tickets? We were grateful, but....confused. evelyn *who spent the whole Labor Day weekend not two feet from this computer*

(Caribou) It is as intimate as young Richard Herncastle walking through the door and seeing Julie like a porcelain statue. And, IMO, just as effective and more in keeping with the spirit of the piece. Nothing blatant, nothing glaring, all understood!!!! Absolutely! One of the best scenes in the book. *shivering* What a story, Caribou! I had no idea you flew, then drove and that it was almost a cancellation. For pushing you onto the plane, Mr Caribou has been short-listed for the Drool Hall of Fame in his first year of elegibility. It's like Cooperstown, you know. ;-D

I think that crown needs some jewels. Wonderful DH, Caribou. I agree. He's the make-it-happen guy in this story. I told him I owe him 20 years of indentured servitude. He said he'd be happy with cookies, when I get the time.:-) Question: Was it dearer than dear Mr. Caribou who thoughtfully posted on Sunday telling us you were there & you had gone to get the tickets? Yes, he was hesitant to do anything but I really wanted you all to know I had at least gotten that far. I talked to him as I hoofed it from the distant parking lot to the mid-school. Then, we only had a brief conversation between the two shows (right before talking to PW) and at that point we both thought I would be able to log on within minutes or only a couple of hours. However, my ISP wouldn't let me on. And, by that time, it was after midnight--couldn't think of anything else to do but wait. Then, I only got to speak to him right before departing and wanted to tell you myself with what I had written between midnight and 3am the night before. I'm really sorry about the confusion and delay. It was all so exciting and happening so quickly. evelyn *who spent the whole Labor Day weekend not two feet from this computer* Next time I go on remote assignment: phone numbers, carrier pigeon, message owls. We'll cover all our bases!:-) (Evelyn)the Telluride Saga gets more intriguing by the minute Well, since you think so, I'll get brave here and tell you about my plane ride. On the way home, I leaned my head against the edge of the window in delirious exhaustion. It was like the flight scenes in The English Patient. I was in a twin-engine propeller plane so we were lower and slower than a jet. With the hum of the engines and the bright sun, it was easy to be lulled by desert floor slowing rolling past. Our high desert has more water courses, and green dots (trees), small, volcanic eruptions from years past and geometric patterns--the work of man--but there were times when I could see the exact same colors of sand as the desert Geoffrey loved. At last--because this was a weekend of miracles--the plane turned and I was able to see the shadow of the plane go up and down and up and down tracking over the mesas and gullies. In my mind, I looked down and waved to Geoffrey flying in his Rupert Bear.

LOL! You are too much, Caribou!!! Not only does your DH push you to go, you have visions of ODB in other wonderful roles. All I can say is: I'll have what she's having. ;-)

(Caribou) He said he'd be happy with cookies, when I get the time.:-) ROTFL!! He's too cute. :-)

(Moon)visions of ODB LOL! Not visions--just thoughts.

(Caribou) Everything she has written Just beautiful! Thank you again for all of your thoughts, impressions and words about your adventure and the movie. The images you have created are like a wonderful Caribou's GWAPE in Telluride trailer I have been enjoying all day!

Dame Caribou, HRMH Caribou, I am awed by your service to Drooldom! To me you are at least a demigoddess! Your spoilers have made my month. (And your DH is certainly a emperor himself! Thank you Mr. Caribou!) WOW!!!!!!! How is a mortal like me possibly going to survive until the movie comes out in unimportant places like Atlanta? (MariaT)Just beautiful! Thank you again for all of your thoughts, impressions and words about your adventure and the movie. The images you have created are like a wonderful Caribou's GWAPE in Telluride trailer I have been enjoying all day! I could not best those words, and I won't try. Thank you so much! Must go and read all again.

(Evelyn)*who spent the whole Labor Day weekend not two feet from this computer* LOL, me too. I just kept it signed on. Walked in and out of the room every two minutes until *the post*

Caribou, thank you so much for making this journey, having the stamina and energy to get tickets, the pluck to question PW, and giving us a glimpse of the movie itself through your incredible reporting. You are my hero!

Many, many thanks to each and every one of you for your kind words and expressions of thanks. Everyone who was at Telluride and can put thoughts into words is writing about it today but I feel like I have the best, most enthusiastic readers in the world. What an experience! I really wouldn't have done any of it if you had not been waiting. Mr. Caribou says that why support groups work, they make you do something bigger than yourself. So, I really appreciate all of you.

Just wanted to add my thanks to Caribou and her wonderful DH. What a fantastic experience it must have been. Love your descriptions of Tellluride, one of the most beautiful spots in the US. I'm overjoyed at the response to GWAPE and can't wait to hear how it is received in Toronto. Happy days are here again, and just in time for the birthday celebration!

If anyone gets Interview Magazine, Scarlett Johansson is interviewed in the September issue...Here is the link to the first part of it and grrr, don't you know, as soon as it seems they might veer (or Vermeer?) into GWAPE territory they tell you to go buy it! The very nerve! http://www.interviewmagazine.com/images/sjohanssonp1.pdf

Thanks, Maria! A funny comment about her being a loud obnoxious sh.. on the set. Dorine, since you have the Interview Mag. Tell us if there's much on GWAPE too.

Hmmm, I could actually make the Telluride by the Sea, stay with a friend in Boston. Just v.v. bad weekend...would need to completely rearrange schedule and travel plans. Need to be in Philly on Tues morning for the week. Hmmmm. I'll see if I can type it up when I get back late tonight. I loved the interview. I find her to be an old soul and rather insightful. Something about her really struck me in Ghost World.

(Dorine)I loved the interview So did I, and I'm going to love the film. - Interview - (SJ)There�s one scene where Griet sees Vermeer stroking and kissing his wife. So if this is what Griet sees, what do we see? Hmmmm

We see it through her eyes. This is the one that is so similiar to Matthew and Nimi. It will make a beautiful DVD capture. Have the bucket ready when you hear the pianoforte start!!!!

OK, we have an attendee at the Telluride by the Sea screening in Portsmouth, who wants to thank you, Maria, for that find. Hopefully, she'll delurk and tell us all about it herself after she recovers. ;-)

(Karen) Hopefully, she'll delurk and tell us all about it herself after she recovers. ;-) I certainly hope she delurks! The excitement of the first-person report is half the fun! Good luck lurker!

(Karen) Hopefully, she'll delurk and tell us all about it herself after she recovers. ;-) (Barb S)I certainly hope she delurks! The excitement of the first-person report is half the fun! Good luck lurker! She must! She must! We must have our share!! ;-D

(Karen) Hopefully, she'll delurk and tell us all about it herself after she recovers. ;-) Good luck Lurker! Please let us know how great you think it is.

(Karen)One new pic of Johannes and Catharina (Moon)That's the one where Vermeer is caressing Catharina. That's one of the ones, there are at least two. The golden one is the supplement is when he trying to convince her to let Tanneke sleep in the cellar so she can get away from the crying baby and let Griet sleep in the attic so she can secretly do more work for him. He is very persuasive!!!! Griet's and Tanneke's reactions to this got a laugh from the audience both times. The other caress scene where he is stroking Catharina is when it is only the two of them with Griet watching from the shadows as she goes about her work. Catharina is playing the pianoforte and Vermeer is standing behind her caressing her red satin gown and kissing her neck. (Those 12 children were not immaculately conceived!) Once again, nothing blatant; nothing glaring; all understood.

Closing tags. Hope you have a great time. The best advice I got is "Have fun!"

(Caribou) and kissing her neck Why doesn't this surprise me? ;-D

Caribou, I have two questions. First, in the Telluride piece that Karen posted today (thanks to you and Karen, by the way!), it mentions that in the film Griet's father is dead. I thought this was odd, for I really liked the scenes in the book where Griet is explaining the paintings to him, becoming her blind father's eyes, so to speak. It also served to emphasize that Griet has the visual orientation of an artist. Second, how is "Vermeer" pronounced in GWAPE? Is it "fur-mare", or "ver-mir"?

Having just read response #89(Rika) and #90 (lindak) I agree with you ladies. I have only recently joined in, and have only been perusing site topics for about three weeks. So it will take me awhile to read and respond to earlier opinions. I just viewed HS two weeks ago via VHS,and although, I too, would like to see this on the BIG screen, the relationship factor so sorely neglected in the movie renders much of it unbelievable.Ditto the remarks on having thought the book would provide a framework for a decent script....but CF is still a joy to watch!!!!Ditto WAGW re:relationship with Daphne. Hope to master the guidelines about italics before long...and am eager to learn about pasting the clip art, too. Should visit #61 and study that......

(Lisa) it mentions that in the film Griet's father is dead The official material from the studio is faithful to the book. It states: "After her father, a tile painter, is blinded in a kiln explosion..." I'd chalk it up to another case of poor journalistic fact checking as usual.

(LisaJH)it mentions that in the film Griet's father is dead. I think it is just a clerical error. I'm sure he wrote the article before seeing the film because it was already published by the time the movie was shown. It definitely wasn't written after seeing the movie. It should read: "forced to support her family after the severe disability of her father". He is still there. If you read the book, you know he used to be a tile painter but the movie never gets wordy enough to explain what happened and what it means. During the opening sequence, Griet goes upstairs to see her father before leaving for Vermeer's house, he is blind and his right hand has been maimed. He hands her the tile and all he says is, "Do you remember when you helped me paint it?" Touching! (LisaJH)I really liked the scenes in the book where Griet is explaining the paintings to him, becoming her blind father's eyes, so to speak. I really liked those too. Had to keep going from book to picture of painting to see if I agreed. They did leave those describing scenes out, however. IMO, they would have disrupted the flow and wordlessness of the piece. They made every time she was home on the weekend be a time for her to see Pieter and for their love relationship to grow. Even though they were a couple, she wouldn't ever answer questions about her hair or let Pieter see a wisp of it, for example, so we can better understand just what Vermeer was asking her to do by asking her to remove her scarf. Very nice set up and follow through. It also served to emphasize that Griet has the visual orientation of an artist. I agree. But, they decided to let Vermeer be the one to discover that and let us discover it with him. I highly approve!!!! Those are the scenes where he has the most desperate looks on his face. "Do you see? Do you understand? Oh, please, oh, please say you do?" Remember, never in words just with his wonderful face that communicates to us best of all. Those are also the scenes that give us the dimples, grins and smiles under stubble. So, it was hard for me to miss seeing her with her father. (LisaJH)Second, how is "Vermeer" pronounced in GWAPE? Is it "fur-mare", or "ver-mir"? You know, I had never thought of it, but I don't think anyone ever says his last name. He is usually referred to as "he" but Catharina does say, "Johannas" one time. I was caught off guard by that one and can't even begin to attempt to say or explain how she did it. That's another one for the next viewer to make note.

Ohh, I am sorry. I don't know what is wrong with me today. Twice in one day! Naughty! Caribou, Naughty! Naughty!

Caribou, does the film show Vermeer on his deathbed?

No, it doesn't. I wouldn't really need to see that so, maybe it's one of the advantages of having it be about GWAPE instead of POGWAPE (Painter of...). I really like the ending because it complements the opening so well and brings the movie full circle. I am anxious to get to the DVD so, I can test my theory. I think that the opening sequence and the ending after the climax is probably the same length of time giving the movie it's incredible since of balance. To me, it feels like if you held the opening sequence in one hand and the ending in the other that the balance of the movie would hang and sway gently like a silk cord between them. Once again, so happy with what's there that I can't miss what isn't.

(Caribou) it feels like if you held the opening sequence in one hand and the ending in the other that the balance of the movie would hang and sway gently like a silk cord between them. Wow, Caribou, that's a beautiful way to say that. You have a very colorful way of describing this movie. Are you a writer?

(Dorine), Caribou, that's a beautiful way to say that. You have a very colorful way of describing this movie. Hear, hear. And am I glad I'm not in line to report on the next one!

(Dorine)Caribou, that's a beautiful way to say that. You have a very colorful way of describing this movie. You blew me away with that comment, Caribou, as you have with all your comments concerning GWAPE. I couldn't wait to see this, and after your posts this week- I'm out of my mind.

LOL! Thank you so much dear ladies. (Dorine)Are you a writer? Yes, I must admit I do write and I love writing but my audiences are usually very small and my work has never resulted in cash. I did, however, write a thank you note once and the lady who received it liked it so much she went out and bought me another gift and sent it, too. So, I guess, if you count that I have had a lucrative writing career! :-)

Would like to add my thanks for your great reporting. A question I have which has come out of 'keepsakes',(and what a good poem that was too!) was there a 'stand-in' or could you be sure the hands belonged to "Vermeer"?

Xavier Bouvy was the stand in for Colin Firth so, I can't be absolutely certain whose hands I was looking at and when but some of the most notable hand scenes are when you can tell they are attached to his body.!;-) For example, Griet is dusting the camera obscura and he says, "Would you like to look into it?" It doesn't sound all that impressive to say he comes over, opens the lid, and later points out how it works but Colin is able to do all in the most dramatic way. He holds and moves his hands ever so slightly different than most of us would and that makes it very effective. In another scene, he is just taking a break and talking and he rubs his hands together, massaging them while he does. It's a perfect touch to show the family is worried about money, not keeping the house very warm in his removed studio and he's been working for a while and feels the strain in his hands. That's ODB--such a little thing to do but it speaks volumes!

Caribou, thank you so much for all your details. You describe it so vivid and delightful. As for me to express my gratitude I'll just have to stick to my motto: Words fail me. so - simply: Thank you very much :-) This goes for the articles and comments as well. So good of you to keep us posted.

Interestingly, the new picture Murph posted is from the same scene/shot as I put up yesterday from the Telluride paper. Catharina is wearing the ermine-trimmed mantel and JV is standing behind her with his hands on her neck. However, the other picture showed the entire household (kids included) right there. So does he do his fondling in front of everyone like that?

(Karen)So does he do his fondling in front of everyone like that? So it would seem! :-) Anyway based only from what I've read here, I'll agree with the reporter, who called the most erotic movie. The first shot alone has me go totally week at the knees and I can't seem to still my beating heart. Thank you all for the pictures and reviews.

(Karen)So does he do his fondling in front of everyone like that? This one is in front of everyone and just touching not stroking. These are gold/persuasion/key pics. You can tell from the long shot that Griet can't see too much of what's going on here. BTW, I don't think the tall pic made the final cut in the movie--that right hand looks further south than I recall. The stroking is the red/caress/pianoforte scene of which I haven't seen any stills yet. It gets confusing doesn't it? When you see the caress one you will know because of his standing side view and it's red, red, red. Great job on the gallery, Karen.

The look on his face is interesting in the tall shot. Almost like he's in deep thought about something else rather than where his hands seem to be moving. I know you posted on the other topic, Caribou, that at this point he and Griet aren't very close, but what impression did you get with that far away look on his face? Love the gallery, Karen.

(LindaK)but what impression did you get with that far away look on his face?I just remembered. She is sitting at her dressing table when he is trying to talk her into Griet sleeping in the attic. So, the only thing I got from that expression is he is looking at the two of them in the mirror. Sometimes the stills are taken out of perspective and give a whole different feel. I don't think I mentioned I liked the shot of Griet sleeping in the attic. It has the same look and feel of Tom Birkin's bell tower--just no ropes running throught the floor.:-) Oh, and there was a Mark Darcy moment in the attic. He walks over, takes off his coat, and rolls up his sleeves. The linseed oil was another special Colin touch, like the camera obscura on 176.

Great stuff ladies, thanks. I thought you were a writer too Caribou. Your words flow so well and are so descriptive. Very talented.

Hi. I'm new to the conference, but have been reading up on all these discussions for the past while. I think everyone has praised Caribou for her writing skills about her experiences in Colorado, so I'll just add in an "I agree" on that front. I did want to suggest to you (and the others now going to Toronto) to post something about the movie on www.imdb.com. That site has a place for viewers to make comments about anything they've seen, and I think it would be really cool to have something so intelligently written show up so soon on GWAPE. Just a chance for building early buzz even among those crazy people who are not obsessed with Colin (inexplicable behavior on their part). I know I read the viewer reviews on that site a lot as do many of my friends. Just a suggestion. Thanks for all your postings/pictures/raves about the movie. It's a blast reading all about your opinions, experiences etc (that goes for everyone, not just the GWAPE viewers!).

That's a great idea, Dena. Caribou should write something up not only for imdb, but maybe Dark Horizons and AICN. Far better to read her review than those from the XBox types.

(Dena) I did want to suggest to you (and the others now going to Toronto) to post something about the movie on www.imdb.com. (Karen) Caribou should write something up not only for imdb, but maybe Dark Horizons and AICN. I second! Or is it third? Since I'm to relive my HS-itis, I'll do so in stages and start with the audience pov. I took my low expectations to the 7:30 showing at the local multiplex. The theater was a few heads shy of half full. Couples, small groups and a sprinkling of singles made up the audience. Women outnumbered men 3 to 2. Definitely an adult crowd. Don't remember seing anyone under 20 (and I'm being kind.) Average age was closer to 40 than 30. There were laughs from the audience but not much for a rom-com. The laughs: CW responds to Mandy's happy dance with "It's clicked into place. No, really it's cristal clear" or something like that, and is willing to have sex "the innocent kind". The yoga scene. The scarf dance. Vera's family tree includes CZJ. The chuckles: The scenes with the shopkeepers. CW passes out after swallowing the sleeping pill. CW's reaction to Mandy massaging his head and talking about spiritual journey. CW and Vera on the golf course. CW and Mandy do it so Fisher and wife do it. Vera and CW in her room and the sprinkler goes off. The line about talking in the church so as not to have sex. OP as the mayor also received occasional chuckles. The snorts: CW asks if they're about to have the "not innocent" sex. Vera arrives at the inn looking for CW. The whining whores comment from Vera. Please don't think I remember all of this. The movie was such that I could take notes and not miss much. The good news: no one walked out during the showing. The bad news: I didn't get the sense anyone would come back for repeat viewing or would recommend the movie. I'll be surpised if it's still playing as much (or at all) next week. As for my reaction, I'll take two doses of GWAPE and tell you more in the morning ;-)

Thanks for taking notes, Sonia. ;-D Let us know if any local critics followed up and went to see the film since they were so obviously not provided with a preview.

(Sonia)The laughs: The yoga scene. They were really cute but it got even funnier to me when I realized the class was doing Warrior Pose I or Warrior Pose II. And, Colin was doing this very serious kung-fu, karate type "warrior" stuff. That looked like very good improv to me.:-)

(Caribou) Colin was doing this very serious kung-fu, karate type "warrior" stuff That's the bit that got the laughs. Mild chuckles when he fell over, probably because you could see it coming. (Karen) Let us know if any local critics followed up and went to see the film since they were so obviously not provided with a preview. Don't recall seeing any review in the paper. Other movies were deemed more interesting I guess. Will keep checking.

(Karen) Let us know if any local critics followed up and went to see the film since they were so obviously not provided with a preview. So much for wide release...:-(( Posted on Mon, Sep. 08, 2003 MOVIE REVIEW Despite talented cast, 'Hope Springs' is hopeless BY CARY DARLING cdarling@herald.com What in the world were they thinking? It's hard to believe that the talented likes of Colin Firth, Heather Graham, Minnie Driver, Oliver Platt and Mary Steenburgen were so bereft of big-screen options that they had to settle for the dismal Hope Springs. This spectacularly unromantic, unfunny English/American romantic comedy slunk into Florida theaters Friday with no press screenings, perhaps as a test for a broader release. Maybe it sounded better on paper. Based on the novel New Cardiff by Charles Webb, Hope Springs has an engaging enough premise: Colin Ware (Firth), a straitlaced British artist who believes his fianc�e, Vera (Driver), is marrying another man, is fleeing to small-town New England to purge himself of his troubles. Of course, he meets and falls for Mandy (Heather Graham), who, naturally, has a wild side (watch out, don't let her step on that accelerator!) and a sexy side (happy time means it's strippin' time!). But Colin's new, improved Yankee life of potential speeding tickets and casual sex is interrupted by a visit from Vera, who wants her old guy back. This crisis is supposed to kick-start the laughter, but as these thinly drawn characters lurch from scene to scene, stone-faced silence as deep and abiding as the heads of Easter Island is more likely. The always likable Firth and the affable Graham fare the best in a bad situation, but Driver as the obnoxious girlfriend, Platt as the town's overbearing mayor, and Steenburgen as the wacky hotel manager are painful to watch. Filmmaker/screenwriter Mark Herman directs it all with TV-sitcom competence. And, even though the makers affixed American flags to the license plates, it's still very apparent that this was shot in British Columbia, not New England. Hope may indeed spring eternal, but as this movie shows, 90 minutes of its opposite, despair, can feel like an eternity, too. * �

It ain't gonna get a wider release with this kind of reception. Those Brit critics were not an anomaly in this film's case. Thanks, Maria. Did the film make it to you? I checked yahoo movies and didn't see it playing in your neck of the woods.

(Karen)Thanks, Maria. Did the film make it to you? I checked yahoo movies and didn't see it playing in your neck of the woods. It is playing here and of course I went... I have to say I liked it a good deal more on the big screen than I did when I saw it initially...That being said it is still a "plonker", more like something that would be made for LMN than for the big screen. Colin's fans would of course still want to see it and I myself will probably go back to see it in the theatre as the light was actually quite nice in some of the scenes (come to think of it, they were mainly the bare chest scenes! Yumm!)Obviously the movie has it's visual treats!and somehow it moved along better on the big screen. I enjoyed it (kind of like enjoying expensive flat champagne, it IS still champagne after all!) and so did the 10 other people in the theatre. :-(( It has some cute and humorous moments and ODB does look fine but non Colin fans would probably rather just enjoy their CO2 injected Cold Duck..;-)

(Maria)(kind of like enjoying expensive flat champagne, it IS still champagne after all!) ROTF..I like your review best of all, Maria!! Looks like HS is destined for the Blockbuster shelves...and shortly after the sale bin.

Here are some of my thoughts about GWAPE. I'm looking forward to reading the other lucky droolers' opinion, it would be nice to compare notes. I found GWAPE absolutely breathtaking to look at. I don't think I've ever seen a movie that looked like a painting itself. When I heard the critics describe it this way I wondered what they meant, after all, how can a movie look like a painting? I understand now. It's the colours. The colours, the slow moving of the frames, the haunting melody that you can't get out of your head even days after you've seen it. I admit, I was so wound up with excitement and nervousness, hyped up about having just seen Colin in the flesh, I felt way too light headed, and that's not a good condition to be in when one wants to pay close attention to a movie and remember as much as possible later. So I'm afraid my review might not be as objective as I would've liked it to be, so this is just a first impression clouded with too much excitement kind of thing. But no matter how "tainted" my thoughts are I can still hear the music, and it makes me shiver. Few weeks ago I was at the Met in NYC, looking at the 5 Vermeer paintings displayed there. Before I only saw them online, or in my Vermeer book, and I found myself marvelling at how different the colours of the paintings were in reality. I was reminded of those very feelings while watching the movie, and now knew why the colours looked so real. I don't know how they did it, but they got just the right shades, the right amount of light, the right hue, and put all of us viewers into a Vermeer painting for 95 minutes. I was awed as I was transported into that time period, and didn't want to leave when the film was over. It was a remarkable experience, and I have to take my hat off to the cinematographer who made this possible. I suppose every single person who read Tracy Chevalier's novel has their own ideas about what the characters in the story would look and feel like, based on the author's description. To me Colin was the true embodiment of Vermeer. In my mind he looked like him and felt like him, his portrayal gave me a beautiful visualisation of what I had imagined in my mind's eye all these months. Now the man had a face for me, a voice, a presence. And never mind the stunning figure, the sexy stubble, or the voice that would melt butter, he just felt so right. I just sat there watching his face filling the entire screen and held my breath. This was perfection. Scarlett Johansson. I spent some time looking at this actress's photos on the Net, and could not see her as Griet until I saw the first photos posted from the film, and I found myself amazed at her transformation, and how easy it was for me then to accept her in the role. Now I only wondered what she sounded like, and whether her voice would work with what I had in mind. It sure did. I loved her portrayal very much, she certainly looked the part, and had good chemistry with Colin, which I truly appreciated. This story's very soul is the attraction, the heat, the quietly simmering sexuality between those two, and the lack of chemistry would've killed it instantly. I was delighted to see Tanneke on the screen. I found myself grinning from ear to ear the moment she appeared, looking as if she'd just stepped out of Vermeer's The Milkmaid. Where did they find this actress I know not, but I bless them for it, for she was perfect. Never mind she looked a few pounds heavier than the real thing, she was still "it". Or her to be more precise. Give the casting agent a cigar! :-) Tom Wilkinson was great as Van Ruijven, deliciously nasty, and I wanted to strangle him when he attacked Griet. Another perfect casting. My two not quite pleasant surprises were Judy Parfitt and Essie Davis. I always pictured Maria Thins as a strict but fairly relaxed woman who ran a tight ship, and observed Griet with quiet amusement. I was surprised to see her looking so..... I don't know, she seemed way to strict, wearing an incredibly severe look and clothing. With that thing on her head she looked like the evil lady from Sleeping Beauty, and I had some trouble identifying her with the character. Essie Davis didn't feel right for the part for me. I had a problem with both her looks and her performance. Her face looked so tight, her eyes so... shiny, for lack of a better word, she reminded me of - please don't laugh - the borg queen in Star Trek. I found her performance sort of stagey (is there such a word?), and her voice more whiny than anguished or angry. Once again let me say that I was not in the proper mindset when I watched the movie, I was way too light headed and distracted, especially when I kept glancing at Colin and his costars sitting down below. I wish I could see the film now, with a clear head, but I guess that will have to wait until December. One interesting problem I had was that I had trouble understanding the dialogue in some places. I thought after seeing P&P and BJD a million times understanding the British accent would not be a great challenge, but I seemed to have been wrong about that. I missed some important things because of this, and my hubby did too. It's a good thing that the DVD will have subtitles, apparently I'm going to need them. :-( Now for the story.... I absolutely loved the movie, I was stunned by its beauty, and when it was over I wished it would go on a little longer. However, despite feeling quite happy and relieved at how well they transferred the book to the screen, I still found myself having a few Griet moments. You know the kind of feeling she had while looking at her master's beautiful painting, and while feeling mesmerized she had this strange urge to change something. Nothing major, just a touch here and there, because something just didn't feel quite right. I would've loved to see the sorting the vegetables by colour scene between Griet and Vermeer. I felt that it was an important part of the story, one that established very early on Griet's affinity for colour and detail. It would've shown the viewer that she was a bit "odd", after all a girl in that time period had no business thinking about such things, and it did make her different from the others, and that's exactly what attracted Vermeer to her in the first place, isn't it? Even Maria Thins saw she was different. I felt that her interest in what Vermeer was doing was not shown clearly, or introduced early enough. I tried to think about how people who never read the book would see it all, and felt that based on what they've seen so far they'd think it was the man she was attracted to, and not the man AND their common interest in colours and painting. For the same reason I would've also loved to see just a minute's worth of Griet sneaking down from the attic just to sit there and look at the painting, to see her face as she is admiring the beauty of it, so when she comes up with the idea of changing the setup it would seem more natural. They did show her sneaking down afterhe made her change though, but I would've like to see that before. One more thing I would've loved to change but have no idea how was the ending. I felt it was rather abrupt, and I found myself a little confused about where she was at the time. We just see her in a house, but whether it's her parents' house or she got married and it's Pieter's house I didn't know. She just gets the package, opens it, and we all hold our breath, and than that's it. I felt something was missing there. I don't know what, but that scene - in my mind - was crying for something more. I needed to feel completion, like I did when I read the book, but never felt it in the movie. I was left with a quiet nagging feeling that something remained unfinished. So apart from these small details I was satisfied with what I saw, and I'd imagine the other fans of the book also feel that the story's transfer from book to screen had been rather successful. I'm very grateful to the makers of this movie for what they've accomplished, for I've heard many horror stories about people loving a book and having to see it butchered on screen, it fills me with gratitude that I didn't have to experience such a heartbreak. All in all it was a wonderful experience, one that will be shared by all of you soon I hope. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts fellow lucky ones.

Ildi, I echo a lot of your observations and feelings about GWAPE. I remember Caribou saying people were gasping at the beauty of some scenes and it also happened in Toronto. The scene where all the women are head down preparing dinner in the kitchen was spectacularly beautiful - there must be a Vermeer like it (time for an Internet search) because several people stirred/gasped/whispered at that scene. Like you, I was overcome with how beautiful it was to look at. Lucky you to see his paintings as a primer to the movie! I also believe that people who don't know the book will struggle with the storyline. I missed Griet's internal narration. Throughout the book I was constantly on edge that she would be tossed from the household, as the book vividly portrayed the unfortunate role of women in this society. I didn't have that tension throughout the movie. The awakening to her personal power and unique talent was also missing in great part for me. After I finished the book, I felt it was less about a "crush" on her boss and more about getting a crush on herself - the movie went the sexual route and simplified her intentions. There was no agonizing over Peter's advances and her possible life as a butcher's wife and not an artist's apprentice (or perhaps an artist herself). The "giving in to Peter" sequence seemed almost out of place. The set up for the scene wasn't strong enough. I assume that her lip/tear encounter with Vermeer is supposed to make her so aroused that she runs to find Peter to release her sexual yearnings - didn't work for me. In the book, she placates Peter with sexual acts for not telling people about the Van Ruijven painting(again another vivid example of how trapped women were). The modesty of keeping one's hair tied up was not played up enough, so the long eye-lock scene of Vermeer seeing Griet's golden hair will seem a little too dramatic to the GWAPE uninitiated. I now understand Webber's comments at Telluride about making "his version" of the story. For me, it lost most of the female awakening journey and went for the easy romance route. He may have been going for stark simplicity with the limited dialogue and reliance on visuals, and perhaps needed a more simplified story. But it looks like an art film anyway, why not make it richer and perhaps more complex by bumping up the journey story! With all that said, I like a good romantic, erotic story, too - especially the ones where none of it is consummated. And especially if Colin is the object of desire. However, when reading the book, the closeness derived from their mutual understanding of art's power and craft made me weak in the knees (you mean men and women can be drawn together by something more than pheromones and biology!). What were your favourite GWAPE moments? Mine - the aforementioned women around the table tableau was stunning; when Griet asks Vermeer to help her during the missing comb scene; the colour of the clouds scene; the "lick your lips" scene (ok, had to have one cross-your-legs moment!). The Darcy in a Daze Moment goes to Vermeer watching Griet set the table. That's more than enough space for me! I sign off on this holiest of days - ODB's birthday!

Tremendous insight Myou.Thank you. I will enjoy the film more after reading these comments.

(Ildi), I would've loved to see the sorting the vegetables by colour scene between Griet and Vermeer. I felt that it was an important part of the story, one that established very early on Griet's affinity for colour and detail. It would've shown the viewer that she was a bit "odd", after all a girl in that time period had no business thinking about such things, and it did make her different from the others, and that's exactly what attracted Vermeer to her in the first place, isn't it? I agree. Thank you for such a wonderful review! (Myou), I now understand Webber's comments at Telluride about making "his version" of the story. For me, it lost most of the female awakening journey and went for the easy romance route. That's a revelation. The book was Griet's POV.

Myou, I also liked the "lick your lips" scene, especially because he asked her 3 times to do it. I had a good chuckle at that, and thought, stop it you little pervert, and found it absolutely endearing how she did it. I thought she'd run her tongue along her lips quickly, but she'd done it so virginlike, so innocently, it was beautiful. I could imagine his blood quietly boiling at the sight. I also loved the authentic look all around, it really drew the viewers into the film's atmosphere, I was thoroughly enchanted, and blessed both the cinematographer and the composer for the effect. They've clearly outdone themselves. I thought about your comments regarding the loss of "female awakening" and how the GWAPE uninitiated would see it all, and agree with your thoughts, but I decided to be careful about how I look at the whole thing. There is no question, the movie could've been better if it conveyed more of what we got out of the book, if we could've been shown the gradual awakening in both Griet and Vermeer, if we would've been given all the little details that gave the book its very soul, but I question whether that was possible. In my opinion not really, not in 95 minutes anyway. Upon closer reflection I can't help but think about P&P2. I always thought the Colin version was favoured by most people because it was long enough to explore and show everything. (And of course because of CF, LOL!) There wasn't much left out of the novel, the 300 minutes running time gave the creators of the miniseries the opportunity to give us all the details that made P&P2 so incredibly rich. If you gave that 300 minutes to GWAPE you could satisfy everyone, and believe me, the thought of a GWAPE miniseries with Colin gives me heart palpitations. So the thing is, as much as I would've loved to see more, and feel more, and be assured that those who didn't read the book saw it the way it was meant to be seen, I have to realize that it may not have been possible. Not in the alotted time anyway. So I'm trying to look at the movie keeping all that in mind, and see all that they've accomplished, rather than what was left out. Which was a lot, but I'm not sure it could've been helped.

(Ildi)I would've loved to see more, and feel more, and be assured that those who didn't read the book saw it the way it was meant to be seen, I have to realize that it may not have been possible. Not in the alotted time anyway. So I'm trying to look at the movie keeping all that in mind, and see all that they've accomplished, rather than what was left out... Great comment; which goes for all books that are adapted to film.

Thanks, Myou and Ildi. I can't wait to see this film. (Ildi)all the little details that gave the book its very soul, but I question whether that was possible. Probably not, but I think your comment is correct about not dwelling on what was left out. For me, some of my favorite parts of the book are Griet's inner thoughts and almost spiritual ability to feel his presence. My back was to the door, but I knew suddenly that he was standing there. Van Ruijven's eyes followed me everywhere. So did my master's. At the top I looked around and saw the closed door. Behind it was a silence that I knew was him. Did any of you that saw the film get the impressions, from the screen, that lines like these were meant to convey in the book?

(LindaK) Did any of you that saw the film get the impressions, from the screen, that lines like these were meant to convey in the book? Linda, reading your 3rd quote from the book I remember one particular scene that was actually not in the book, it was added, but what a great one it was, it had me all choked up. After the painting was discovered and she was ordered out of the house Griet walked to the studio door one last time. The door was slightly ajar, and she just stood there with a look of longing on her face, knowing He was in there, while Vermeer was sitting at his easel with a miserable look on his face, knowing very well that she was out there. Oh, I wanted to cry. When He saw her hair I didn't get the feeling she knew he was standing there, she looked surprised to me, but let me say it again that I was in a delirious haze while watching the movie, so I certainly missed many things. Hopefully the others remember more, like Caribou, who saw it twice. She possibly remembers more than the rest of us. She is twice lucky. :-)

Ildi and Myou I can't thank you enough for such beautiful reports. I can picture everything in my mind. That's a wonderful thing. IMO this pic is a winner and at the very least will merit technical awards. Can't wait to see it. Thank you again.

(Karen) Huh? You're kidding? Surely, they could get someone to speak her lines whilst lining up the lips. Or did the producer say they had to dub her because her English was unintelligible? Or am I not understanding??? (Dorine) This comment was in reference to the Portuguese housemaid, I believe. (Karen) And you meant "subtitled" not dubbed, right? This is all my fault for being so blasted confusing (poor Dorine was on the phone with me about half a dozen times....my cell phone was overheating and I was blabbing away at her at 100 mph)! LOL! This is at the beginning of the film, with the cheating English girlfriend. ODB is off to a wedding (Keira K's wedding) and his girlfriend is feeling ill. As he leaves, he tells her that she looks "like crap, but I still love you". They kiss and he is off (then we see wedding a bit later). Jamie then comes home between the wedding and reception to see if she is feeling better and finds his brother in the house. His bro states (nervously) that he had just come over to borrow some CDs and that the ODB's girlfriend had let him in. ODB holds up a CD (didn't make out what it was) and says "this is quite good" and then "listen, mom's birthday is coming up and I think we should take her out to dinner or something...we haven't been very good sons this year". Right about this time (off camera) you hear the irlfriend yell from the direction of the bedroom "*fill brother's name in here*, come back here, I've found the condoms and we have to hurry before my loser boyfriend comes back!" Close up of ODB and brother looking at one another. The next time you see ODB, he is opening up the house in S. France. Anyway...when I talked to Dorine I said that I thought they had dubbed that line in later (changing the 'pencil dick' to 'loser boyfriend') since she couldn't be seen, they could have her say anything when they did the sound tracks. Sorry....I confused both of you! LOL! I'll write more about ODB's bits...I think I have most written down...a bit later. Am at work and need to act busy and important for a while! ;-D

(LindaK) Did any of you that saw the film get the impressions, from the screen, that lines like these were meant to convey in the book? Linda, I also really loved that sympatico-sense in the book and in the book, there were many instances of her "sensing" him. In the movie, it wasn't so much about "sensing" as it was about "seeing". The story almost moves forwards by the characters' LOOKING at each other - in fear, in lust, in resentment, in awe, in secret. It's a really fascinating choice, especially when adapting a 1st person narrative novel. It is all in the visual. Must say that one of the most powerful moments (and a sympatico one) in the film comes when Catharina's comb is missing and Griet is confronted in the studio by Catharina, Cordelia and Maria Thins (I think) about taking the comb. Vermeer is standing behind Griet and without turning around, Griet pleads "help me, help me" to him. He dashes off through the house in a mad fury, upending furniture and emptying drawers looking for the comb. It's one of the best examples of that "bond" that exists between them without one look between them. Loved this moment! From the book, "At the top I looked around and saw the closed door. Behind it was a silence that I knew was him" - this is very well established. There are two times (if I remember)that we see this image, Griet outside the studio door.

(Myou) He dashes off through the house in a mad fury, upending furniture and emptying drawers looking for the comb. It's one of the best examples of that "bond" that exists between them without one look between them. Loved this moment! LOVE the mad dash scene as well! His hair is flying and in his face and mouth. He's having a regular fit and it shows how volatile he can be...but you'll laugh because as he was upending everything, all I could think of was how Griet was going to have to go after him and clean that mess up! ;-) I also think that there is some resentment built up there....remember Catarina watching as Cornelia gets whipped? That Vermeer would go to Cornelia's room to discover her hiding place for the comb (that he would rather whip his own child than let the maid take the fall). There is another scene toward the end where Vermeer really puts Griet in a bad position. At one point (and Myou, Caribou and anyone else...you may have to help me here as I don't recall the dialogue), Vermeer is in the studio with Griet and Catarina is at the door. Catarina makes a statement and Vermeer defers to Griet! Poor girl is put on the spot and you can just feel the hatred coming from Catarina.

(Tress) LOVE the mad dash scene as well! His hair is flying and in his face and mouth. He's having a regular fit and it shows how volatile he can be.. Does it bear any resemblence to the golf course scene in HS?

(Evelyn) Does it bear any resemblence to the golf course scene in HS? LOL...not even close! This is a great scene...and not a word is spoken (if I am remembering correctly). He just goes through the house tearing it apart. Doesn't say anything even when he finds the comb, just all those looks! You know he's ticked...

(Myou)Loved this moment! (Tress)He just goes through the house tearing it apart. Doesn't say anything even when he finds the comb, just all those looks! You know he's ticked... I can't wait to see this scene. I already love this moment. ...thank you

(lindak)Van Ruijven's eyes followed me everywhere. So did my master's. There's a scene where Van Ruijven and Vermeer meet Griet outside the door of the house. They have obviously just come out of negotiations about Van Ruijven's request to have Griet in a portrait with him. Van Ruijven talks to Griet and cackles over the agreement they have just reached. Vermeer stands silent but desperate to know what Griet is feeling, desperate to explain and anxious to comfort her. His eyes seemed to follow every nuance of emotion that swept over her face. (Evelyn)Does it bear any resemblence to the golf course scene in HS? I didn't care for that scene in HS. It wasn't effective to have him stomp away. This one reminded me of the scene in The Advocate where he comes to the castle to confront the guy about his son. Long hair, trim physique coming right at you, looking like he's about to kill somebody.

(Caribou) Vermeer stands silent but desperate to know what Griet is feeling, desperate to explain and anxious to comfort her. His eyes seemed to follow every nuance of emotion that swept over her face. Loved this moment as well...I had a list of my favorite 'bits' that I hopefully can post today (still catching up at work), but that was one of them. There is a look of distaste/resentment when he looks at Van Ruijven as VR speaks to Griet, but when Vermeer turns his gaze toward her, you can see a tenderness and a hurt on his face. He seems to know she will be uncomfortable and upset (and as Caibou states, he follows her every emotion)....his eyes seem to be searching her face and it appears as if he is incredibly sad at that moment. He needs the money and has reached this agreement and it does not please him. It was a very intense moment and really well done!

(Tress)This is at the beginning of the film, with the cheating English girlfriend. ODB is off to a wedding (Keira K's wedding) and his girlfriend is feeling ill. I guess this means that the Laura Linney character is not his girlfriend, which I was sure I'd read some months ago. (And would explain her scene in the bedroom with the Brazilian hunk). Who plays his(ex)girlfriend and his brother?

Do any of you remember Van leeuwenhoek ? It must be a v. small part. Wasn't he Vermeer's broker? It's played by David Morrissey whom we saw a lot of at the Donmar. He was Ned's friend/partner.

(Janet) Who plays his(ex)girlfriend and his brother? Oooohhh....I knew I was gonna get that question! LOL! I don't know!!! And I was such a dork that I was talking to the girl sitting next to me (the one taking notes and quizzing me through the movie) while the credits were rolling. I should have had pen and paper ready. I didn't recognize either of them. So....also didn't see who sang that blasted song!!!! And the singer is younger....mid 30s maybe....one lady in my group said they figured out who it was but they couldn't remember his name! (Janet) I guess this means that the Laura Linney character is not his girlfriend... No! AND, they are at the wedding together (sitting side by side) but their relationship is never explained...or if it was, I missed it. I got the impression they were friends. I really need to see it again. I think LL works at a publishing house (with Alan Rickman), so if Jamie is a writer.....

(Tress)LA -girlfriend yell from the direction of the bedroom "*fill brother's name in here*, come back here, I've found the condoms and we have to hurry before my loser boyfriend comes back!" I see why they changed the line - so the us dim-witted audience members would know who "pencil dick" was for certain or, secondly, would any actor - ODB, included - want to be known as PD for eternity? - think not! Regardless, surely with all that talent they couldn have come up with something less obviously expository? Thats a big clinker IMO.

(Louise) Regardless, surely with all that talent they couldn have come up with something less obviously expository? Thats a big clinker IMO. I thought it odd that she would call him "loser boyfriend" when it was the brother she was speaking to...why not say "your brother" or just "Jamie"? It was an awkward thing to say....

(Evelyn)Do any of you remember Van leeuwenhoek ? It must be a v. small part. Wasn't he Vermeer's broker? It's played by David Morrissey whom we saw a lot of at the Donmar. Sorry for not answering this sooner. I didn't remember seeing anyone who looked like him in the film and he or Van Leeuwenhoek aren't on the cast listing. I can't remember that part of the book so, I don't have any idea what happened. I was surprised to find that Vermeer was also an art dealer so when they built and dressed the set, they hung lots of paintings of others on the walls of his house.

(Ildi) the haunting melody that you can't get out of your head even days after you've seen it...But no matter how "tainted" my thoughts are I can still hear the music, and it makes me shiver. Now, this (!) I can appreciate and am pretty particular about my film scores...which is probably why I get violent about another one (Ildi) In my mind he looked like him and felt like him, his portrayal gave me a beautiful visualisation of what I had imagined in my mind's eye all these months. Now the man had a face for me, a voice, a presence. And never mind the stunning figure, the sexy stubble, or the voice that would melt butter, he just felt so right. I just sat there watching his face filling the entire screen and held my breath. This was perfection. What a fantastic description. Any actor would kill for that kind of comment. (Ildi) Essie Davis...her voice more whiny than anguished or angry. It seems many critics didn't care for her whiny role either. BTW, she has been primarily a stage actress and won some London theatre award for... it escapes me now. (Ildi) I always pictured Maria Thins as a strict but fairly relaxed woman who ran a tight ship, and observed Griet with quiet amusement. I was surprised to see her looking so..... I don't know, she seemed way to strict, wearing an incredibly severe look and clothing. With that thing on her head she looked like the evillady from Sleeping Beauty LOL! I had a picture in my head of Mammy Yokum (Lil Abner) because she smoked a pipe. ;-D (Myou) The "giving in to Peter" sequence seemed almost out of place. The set up for the scene wasn't strong enough. I assume that her lip/tear encounter with Vermeer is supposed to make her so aroused that she runs to find Peter to release her sexual yearnings - didn't work for me. In the book, she placates Peter with sexual acts for not telling people about the Van Ruijven painting(again another vivid example of how trapped women were). But it is both, and the first reason even more so, from my reading of the book. Built up sexual tension. The modesty of keeping one's hair tied up was not played up enough, so the long eye-lock scene of Vermeer seeing Griet's golden hair will seem a little too dramatic to the GWAPE uninitiated. That's too bad. As symbolism, most will not get it. (Evelyn) Does it bear any resemblence to the golf course scene in HS? (Tress) LOL...not even close Thank goodness. Phew!! *wiping brow* (Tress) I thought it odd that she would call him "loser boyfriend" when it was the brother she was speaking to...why not say "your brother" or just "Jamie"? It was an awkward thing to say.... I agree. Not realistic dialogue IMO. Thanks for the clarification on the dubbing bit. (BTW, that would be "dubbing" not subtitling--obviously--and is done post production and known as ADR, Dorine. ;-) ) Thanks, ladies, for all the wonderful descriptions and analyses.

BTW, that would be "dubbing" not subtitling--obviously--and is done post production and known as ADR, Dorine. ;-) ) Um, yes, well aware of that. ;-)

(Ildi) the haunting melody that you can't get out of your head even days after you've seen it...But no matter how "tainted" my thoughts are I can still hear the music, and it makes me shiver. (Karen)Now, this (!) I can appreciate and am pretty particular about my film scores...which is probably why I get violent about another one Hope that other one isn't HoTPIG. I looked up Alexandre Desplat on the imdb expecting to see Harry Potter to his credit and instead saw he composed the music for Colin's other movie from that time period!!!! Can't remember the music from HoTPIG so, hope this isn't bad news. :-)

(Karen) London theatre award for... it escapes me now Not sure what she go the award for but she was in Street Car Named Desire at the National and is currently there as Dorothy in Jumpers opposite Simon Russell Beal.

(Karen) Now, this (!) I can appreciate and am pretty particular about my film scores... So am I, Karen, always have been. To me the music that accompanies a film is as important as the story and the acting. A bad musical score can ruin the greatest movie, and I was particularly anxious about this one because I love the book so much. In the last months I spent a lot of time searching the Net for the name of the composer of GWAPE, but there was no info on it anywhere. It was quite frustrating, and unnerving. So you can imagine the relieved sigh that left my lips when I watched the movie and found myself absolutely overtaken by the beautiful music. Sometimes I'd watch a movie and coming out of the theatre I'd not remember there was music in it at all. And sometimes a certain melody would haunt me even days after seeing a film, and that's exactly what happened after GWAPE. I'll be running to buy the soundtrack for this one as soon as it comes out, methinks... :-) (Caribou) I looked up Alexandre Desplat on the imdb expecting to see Harry Potter to his credit ... LOL! It WAS kind of a HP type of melody, wasn't it? It was only in my wildest fantasies that John Williams would do the GWAPE score, but he has so many Oscars already, let's allow someone else to have some glory too, shall we? :-)

Okay�it has been a week since I�ve seen GWAPE and I thought I should write down a few things that struck me�.LOVED this film. Is just beautiful to look at�.each frame could have been a painting. Okay, I�m probably going to say some odd things, but I�ll try to give my reasons for them�. I did not miss the �vegetable scene�. I thought the opening was well done. Liked how they showed Griet cutting the veggies so precisely and then when she had them on the platter, how she adjusted an onion so that it would be in the right place. When her mother calls her, she puts down the knife and we get a second of that on the screen (a reminder to me of how Catarina had knocked it off the table in the book) Now, if you had not read the book, you may not realize that she has a certain way of seeing things, but I think that later scenes make up for that (the scene with the camera obscura (and JUST YOU WAIT until you hear how ODB says those words!!), the cloud scene and the scene with Griet using a silver bowl to cast a reflection on the wall�). There is another scene�.Vermeer asks Griet �why did you move the chair� (I think he is sitting at his easel, not looking up but cleaning a brush or something) and Griet responds �she looked trapped�. He understood, and I think the audience begins to (whether y u have read the book or not) that she sees things that even Vermeer cannot at times. The �turquoise� suit is actually a v. v. dark teal and looks AMAZING. The hat�I thought looked like a pilgrim�s hat and didn�t! But it is only about at three second scene so no matter! Scene from the book that I DID miss in the movie (since I didn�t mind the veggie scene): The scene where Vermeer talks of converting to Catholicism to Griet. Not for the religious content, but because it showed two things (1) his growing intimacy with Griet, to tell her such a thing and (2) that it showed what he would do for Catarina (and I thought showed how he loved his wife). Which leads to showing how conflicted he was�.loved his wife, lusting after the maid. Now I�ll just do short snippets of scenes I loved (and there are many, so I apologize): The second shot we see of Vermeer after his child is born. He looks happy and relaxed and just gorgeous (he looks that way throughout the film, but this one was a �catch your breath� moment for me). The pause that Griet does at the studio door her first �tour about the house�. She is intensely curious about the master already�.she pauses and gives an amazing �look�. The scene were Vermeer gets Catarina to let Griet live in the attic. He is quite manipulative and sexy all at once. I believe he is quite used to getting his way and this scene shows that Catarina will do pretty much anything he asks. The pianoforte scene (or harpsicord?). I think Caribou filled you in on that�..spectacular. And the look on Griet�s face as she witnesses this moment is quite well done on her part. The scene where Griet is accused of taking the comb. After Catarina screams at G, she runs off fuming�.you see Vermeer facing the camera and G behind him. She says, very quietly �Help me� and then he just freaks out and tears the house apart! Hair flying in his face and mouth�finds the comb�says �Cornelia� and then the next scene you see Catarina reacting to her child getting whipped. Scene were V teaches G to grind using a pestle. She is grinding and he covers her hands with his and begins to show her. She pulls back very suddenly and the looks on both their faces is pretty amazing. You can practically feel the sparks! The �lick your lips� scene! Crikey! She does it in such a way that she pulls her lip into her mouth to wet her lips (instead of running her tongue over them). Is quite well done and you should SEE ODB�s face when he sees her do this! There is a scene�.that is so beautifully shot, that it nearly takes your breath away (okay, there are a couple, but you can guess one of them and I�ll write about that in a sec). This scene, you think you are looking at a painting (Young Woman with a Water Jug). But the camera begins to move�and you realize you are looking at the �set up� for that painting in Vermeer�s studio!!!!! AMAZING! So disorienting for a few seconds and so beautiful�. Love the camera obscura and the �cloud� scene�.. Another grinding scene. V and G are sitting side by side. Both stop grinding for a moment and their hands are by one another. You see V�s hand move�.it is so slight, yet you know exactly what is going on�.well done on both their parts. It is a completely �still� moment, without being still, if that can possibly make any sense. Scene with G setting the table. Vermeer is sitting by the fire, Catarina is sitting at a table doing something and Griet is busy in the background. C is speaking to Vermeer�.he is looking at G and is so absorbed she has to call to him a couple of times. You can see how C becomes aware of what is going on and you can see the discomfort on Griet�s face as she realizes that she is being observed by Vermeer. Very sexy looks from ODB (Like the look that he gives Lizzy at Hundsford while Col. Fitzwilliam is speaking to her�) Another scene, C freaks out on Vermeer�.she calls G illiterate and is just furious, but something is said and Vermeer makes a HUGE mistake by deferring to Griet. C goes ballistic! Very intense moment and Griet�s discomfort is evident again. The looks on the faces of both V and G when Van R tells Griet that she will pose for a painting. AMAZING�Colin and Scarlet should (I say �should� not �will�) win an Oscar for that moment alone!!! So well done. ODB is doing what he does best. Conveying a hundred things with one look�! There is a beautiful (sweet) scene with Pieter and Griet. He is trying to �steal a kiss� while they walk down a road�.I believe it is just starting to snow. He catches up to her and she dashes away. Is very well done�.and you realize that she is just a young girl and should not be �involved in Vermeer�s world� The scene were Van R accosts Griet is horrid! So well done and with Cornelia looking on�a bit creepy. But very good acting all around! The scene were Vermeer sees G�s hair. She has it unwrapped and he is in the shadows�for quite some time. He finally comes out and Griet sees him. She just stands there and lets him look�a bit pervy actually!! The piercing�.I don�t know what I can say about it except that it is�.well�G says �you do it� and for the next three to four minutes you have one of the most intense scenes. After he pierces her, he takes a rag and holds it to her ear�.you see a single tear and he holds her, arm around her shoulder, one hand on her chest (high on her chest!). I believe their heads almost touch, but not quite. They are inclining toward one another. V wipes the tear and then runs his thumb on her lip. She turns toward him, and you could swear that they will kiss..their heads are at such an angle. Then he stands up abruptly and leaves. It is jolting how he �exits� that moment. And then THE scene: Sitting for Vermeer�.he just says �Look at me� and she turns to him�.I get goosebumps just thinking about it. Was SO beautiful. As she looked over her shoulder at Vermeer (the camera), it takes your breath away. Went on WAAAAY too long and I apologize�I could write pages more, but won�t. I will say one more thing. I thought the length of the movie was just right. I know that some thought it should be longer, but I�m one of those people who thinks that films have become too long (me of the long posts!!). This film is so �quiet� and the dialogue so sparse, that to make it longer would have drawn attention to that I think�.it is visually one of the most beautiful films out there and I would hate to have critics complain of it being too long. It just means I can fit more viewings of it into one day! LOL!

Great job, Tress. You remembered several things that I had forgotten. And, now it's even worse; it's been two weeks and I can feel it beginning to fade.:-( Now, January feels like a looooonnnggg way off. (Tress)The pianoforte scene (or harpsicord?). I think Caribou filled you in on that�..spectacular. I think it might be a harpsicord but don't know my musical instruments and history well enough. I kept thinking it might be something else but think of the name. Whatever it is, the inside of it's lid is painted with a landscape. I've been trying to do a little research to keep the fade to a minimum and it is like the instrument in Vermeer's painting The Concert. (Tress)ODB is doing what he does best. Conveying a hundred things with one look�! That's the perfect way to describe it and he does it so often!

(Caribou) I think it might be a harpsicord but don't know my musical instruments and history well enough. I just looked at some pics of Vermeer's paintings....it's a virginal (does that sound right?). BTW, Caribou...a couple of the ladies I saw it with were stunned when they saw the painting of Van R with the woman in red drinking wine. Vermeer only painted himself a couple of times, but in this painting, it looks as if Vermeer is in it. The man sitting to the back....if you didn't know his paintings, you might think it was V looking on that scene. Which would give it tons of meaning I suppose...that he witnessed this girl's 'downfall' so to speak. Did you notice that too?

(Tress) Vermeer asks Griet �why did you move the chair� ..... and Griet responds �she looked trapped�. Tress, thank you for that! This was one sentence I missed, I simply didn't hear it clearly, and was dying because I thought I missed something important. Indeed. Thank you also for the details. There was so much to see even within a frame, it's impossible to remember all. (Caribou) And, now it's even worse; it's been two weeks and I can feel it beginning to fade.:-( My thoughts exactly. The beauty of the film has been warming me all this time, and now I'm beginning to feel like I'm losing it. I'm trying to cling to the memory as long as I can, and reading these lovely posts help me hang on to it a little longer. Keep it coming, ladies, I beg you...

(Tress)but in this painting, it looks as if Vermeer is in it. The man sitting to the back....if you didn't know his paintings, you might think it was V looking on that scene. Which would give it tons of meaning I suppose...that he witnessed this girl's 'downfall' so to speak. Did you notice that too? Karen might be able to help us out with a visual aid.**hint, hint** All I could think was how it looked like CF would in a pub but you are right. It does say Vermeer is a witness to this tragedy but I think if you look closely, you can see his hand up to his face and his eyes are diverted. That makes it even worse--he's choosing "to look the other way".

Again, Tress, Caribou and Ildiko, can't thank you enough for such wonderful reports. I was planning to see GWAPE just for him, but after your excellent reports am looking forward to seeing a really marvelous picture on all accounts. Thank you.

(FanPam)Again, Tress, Caribou and Ildiko, can't thank you enough for such wonderful reports. I was planning to see GWAPE just for him, but after your excellent reports am looking forward to seeing a really marvelous picture on all accounts. Thank you. I second that emotion :-D I love these reviews, ladies. It's obvious you appreciate the movie for more than just ODB. I can almost hear the music just reading your accounts. But how will I wait until January? *sob*

I just remembered two additional scenes I enjoyed. One because it demonstrated Griet's 'eye' and the other for just amusing eye-candy.... At one point, Griet goes in to ask Catarina if she should clean the studio windows. Catarina snaps back "why would you ask me such a question?" and Griet responds, "It may change the light". You can see the look on Catarina's face as this registers. The maid understands more about her husband's work than she does! And then Catarina retorts back "clean them!". She is both annoyed and unnerved. Well done! I do think that Essie Davis is very beautiful, but in an odd way...she has amazing bone structure (those cheek bones), but she had this one eyebrow, that was 'shot up' the entire film. She looked as if she may, at any moment, snap! She seemed to be a woman at the end of her teether.... The other scene I enjoyed (eye-candy, well, in my eyes anyway) was when Vermeer goes up into the attic. We get to see ODB ascending those stairs and we get a lovely shot of his skinny ankles in those brown tights (with brown (pilgrim) shoes...to match the hat, I suppose!...but does the man ever escape the brown shoes??). Anyway, just loved watching him walk up those stairs and then seeing the bottom of the outfit that we get to see the top of so much!

(Tress)Anyway, just loved watching him walk up those stairs and then seeing the bottom of the outfit that we get to see the top of so much! I enjoyed that, too! I thought of Mark and Bridget when he walks over to their "kitchen", takes off his jacket and starts rolling up his sleeves.:-)

Tress, stop! No, don't stop. I'm really dying, here;-) Really! The �lick your lips� scene! Crikey! She does it in such a way that she pulls her lip into her mouth to wet her lips (instead of running her tongue over them). Is quite well done and you should SEE ODB�s face when he sees her do this! Oh, I want to see, I want to see. Caribou, Tress, and Ildi, you all have mentioned so many scenes, and with such detail that I truly cannot wait until it opens. My imagination is running wild. Thanks so very, very much!

Okay...I'm going to talk a bit about LA now (and it is a true spoiler cuz I spell the Jamie plot completely out). Of the ten or so story lines, I liked all but two...which is pretty good, I think....(BTW, I will save the best for last ;-D). Opening -- wasn't as bad as I thought...The 9/11 reference didn�t upset me the way I thought it would. It was odd, but not disrespectful or in bad taste (this is all IMO of course). HG was saying that to really see love, go to an airport arrival terminal. You can see people greeting each other and it gives you hope�.and how people long to love, it is just what they want to do, they don�t want to hate. And then he makes the remark that the cell calls from the towers that day were not messages of anger or hate, but messages of love. A total paraphrase and I can�t do it justice, but not as horrible as it could have been (still, I suppose that some critics will mention it, it�s a good bit to latch onto)�.. Hugh Grant and Martine McCutcheon's story was good. HG got a lot of laughs. He was his usual self, you have seen the dancing bit which was funny (but seemed a bit choreographed, unlike ODB's mirror dance in WAGW). I thought the funniest moment for him was when he was first introduced to MM's character. Hilarious! There is also a bit were he is looking for MM in her neighborhood and he has to sing carols for some youngsters which is pretty funny as well. There is one scene that he may get some flack from the US critics (or Richard Curtis may get criticized, I should say)....there is a speech he gives were he puts the American president (Billy Bob Thorton) and the US 'in their place'. And although everything he says is true and it is probably very nice to hear if you live in the UK, the US press may not find it as amusing. Also, I did get tired of people making fun of MM�s weight. Another Bridget type�she is not heavy, but those around her think she is enormous�.Hugh is related to Emma Thompson (her brother).... Love the Emma Thompson and Alan Rickman storyline. And I believe that ET gives the best performance in the film. She has a scene were she is reacting to some news that she has discovered (that her hubby, AR, may be having an affair with his tarty, flirty assistant). He does not know she knows this....and it makes the scene incredibly powerful....she is 'trying to keep it together' for Christmas. GREAT acting. Alan Rickman is Laura Linney's boss....Laura has a thing for a co-worker. She has been secretly lusting after this guy for two years and everyone knows (even the co-worker) but she has been dealing with some personal issues that no on is really aware of....she has a brother who suffers from mental illness and is in a home. She carries her cell phone around and constantly gets interrupted at very inopportune times with calls from him about his fears/anxieties. This interferes with her first date with the hunky co-worker.... Emma Thompson is a friend of (ex of?) Liam Neeson, who is coping with the death of his wife. She left behind a son (his stepson) and they are trying to put their lives back together. LOVE these two together!! Liam and "Samuel" really work well together. Liam is never condescending and "Samuel" is not an annoying �look at me I�m just too cute� type of kid. They got some big laughs as well.....some of their conversations are just too funny. Samuel is in love and Liam is helping him by telling him how to impress his 'girl'. Bill Nighy is trying to make a come back with a Christmas single based on his earlier hit �Love Is All Around�. He is a SCREAM. Everything he says and does is too funny. He really steals every scene he is in�He bashes boy bands, rips on Britney a bit�I think everyone will get a kick you of him. Rowan Atkinson has a very small part, but he is the same as Bill Nighy. Just steals the scene. He plays an overly helpful sales assistant helping Alan Rickman purchase a piece of jewelry for his assistant� while AR�s his wife (ET) shops in the store�.He also is in a later scene�stealing away! I liked the Keira Knightley story line more than I thought I would. Is very bittersweet. We see her get married at the beginning of the film and watch her husband�s best friend (Andrew Lincoln) taping the wedding. AL arranges a serenade (if you have seen the trailer, you know the song) at the wedding. Her pictures don�t turn out well and she asks AL form his tape so that she can get a decent pic�..when she finally sees the film, she realizes that he has only shot footage of her (and not just at her wedding)! Very sweet scene�.later he tells her how he really feels with cards at her door (see the studio pics), and I cannot do the scene justice, so won�t try�.just thought it was well done and very touching. Next are the two story lines I did not care for�..Condom Boy Colin. Young waiter, with no manners and no clue, decides to head for America because all American women love English accents and he is sure to get laid (hope that is okay to say). He gets to Wisconsin and goes into the first bar in Madison he can�were he meets up with three American stick insects that look like super models that just really, really want him. They all have southern accents and don�t mind that he is a drippy dork. They sleep with him anyway (GAH!). He returns to England with two girls in tow�one for himself and one for his friend who did not believe that babes grew on trees in the U.S.of.A (enter Shannon Elizabeth and Denise Richards in her two seconds of screen time). Now, the next couple I couldn�t quite figure out what their jobs were, but I think they were porn doubles. They were stand-ins for sex scenes�.they got nekky all the time and spoke of ordinary things�.fell in love and had a first date, complete with awkward kiss (despite that fact that they had preformed other acts together). Was odd and seemed terribly out of place! And now the best bit!!!! I�ll go into probably too much detail here, so you may want to stop if you want surprises: Colin�s bit was very good and got great laughs when I saw it! He is the first person we see in LA. He is off to Keira K�s wedding and his girlfriend isn�t feeling well. She stays home and he rushes off�.he decides to pop in between the wedding and reception to see if she is feeling better�.Oddly his brother is there. His brother nervously tells him that he is there to borrow some Cds. At this point you hear the girlfriend (off camera) yell, �I found the condoms, quick get back here before my loser boyfriend gets home!� Next we see ODB (Jamie) in the South of France. LOVE this scene. His usual housekeeper comes to tell him that he will have a new housekeeper�HOLD ONTO YOUR SOCKS�he speaks French, Spanish and Italian in this scene! LOVELY. He greets the ladies with �Bon Jour�, but then speaks with Ariella (I think that is how you spell her name). I don�t know what he says as I don�t speak French and they don�t subtitle it. The older woman tells him that, �She is like you�she doesn�t speak any French (LOL!). She is Portuguese.� He then stumbles a bit and says something to her in Spanish/Italian. The older woman says �That�s Spanish��He tries again and she says �And what is that??? Turkish??� Is very funny! He is left to drive her home everyday and their car rides become a bit amusing as they both talk about the same things but quite differently (that makes no sense I�m sure). We next see him typing his �novel� by the lake. She moves his coffee cup and papers go flying. He tells her �It�s crap, let it go� but she runs to the edge of the lake and begins to undress to rescue the pages (lovely close ups and shows him looking at her tattoo)�she is yelling all the time �this better be good� while he yells �stop�! She jumps in and curses as it is really cold. Jamie then curses and realizes he has to go into the lake too (can�t let the lady swim around by herself). ODB is very clutzy here and very funny�first he goes over the rail that is around the deck (and racks himself) then begins to pull of his sweater and his head gets stuck�he jumps in (more cursing about the cold) and then they begin to gather the papers. He complains about being afraid of eels and �there better not be any in here� and she says (always subtitled) �watch out for the eels, they sometimes bite� We get a scene with Jamie sitting at his desk eating a croissant. He offers her the remainder. Says something like �I could eat these all day, I have an amazing metabolism and never seem to gain any weight� and she says (subtitled) �you need to stop eating those, you are getting chubby and soon you�ll look like my sister!� Then there is a scene, very funny where she is asking him what type of books he writes. She is using signs and facial expressions�says �romance? Or western? Or scary?� as she acts out these things�.then Jamie makes to �fake choke� her as he tells her �mystery� It is very funny as they act this bit out. Then it is time for Jamie to leave France. Their last car ride you can tell they are both miserable�they both say things about how they are going to miss one another and wish they could be together�of course not understanding what the other is saying. As she goes to leave, Ariella kisses Jamie. He looks a bit shocked and a bit relieved! As he leaves, he gets into an accident because he is watching her go�. Next we see scenes of Jamie taking Portuguese lessons. Then on Christmas Eve (Day?) he arrives to celebrate with this family, but as soon as he rings the bell realizes he has to leave (his nieces and nephews are really funny during this scene). The freak out scene we see is when he is outside the airport in Portugal. He is rushing toward a cab and as he opens the door, he sees a little old lady waiting for one! He lets her have it, then has his �moment�. Very funny and got quite the laugh. He goes to Ariella�s house. Her father answers and he asks for �his daughter�s hand�. The chubby sister comes down the stairs and the dad says �this man wants to marry you�! The daughter says �okay� but then Jamie says��No Ariella�. They tell him that she is working and they will take her to him so that he can marry her�as they travel through the village, all the neighbors begin to follow. The sister �informs� them all what is going on. �Papa is selling Ariella to this Englishman� Is quite funny as the story is changed and distorted. They get to the restaurant and Jamie proposes in Portuguese. BUT, is funny because he can�t conjugate a verb to save his life (like me!). He says some hilarious stuff (all subtitled) like �I have come to asks you to married me� and �we can inhabit here or we can inhabit in England� She says yes and we get a very sweet kiss (and ODB gets kissed by several others). The end of the film shows the various characters picking up friends and loved ones at the airport (so the film comes full circle). Jamie and Ariella are greeted by�.I believe�.by Keira Knightley and Andrew Lincoln. Ariella says �Jamie did not tell me his friends were so beautiful. I think maybe I need another Englishman, mine is not so good!� and Jamie says �Don�t mind her, her English is terrible� So, now I have ruined it all for you! But I think it will be a hit. Has some very good laughs and I really enjoyed it. I think Emma Thompson performance was the best�.Laura Linney and Liam Neeson were also outstanding. ODB was v. v. funny (and I liked his bit more than HG�s, but I�m biased and can�t see straight when it comes to all things ODB). Bill Nighy is a scene stealer and there is no competition there! Sorry to go on and on (again) !!

Tress, as said before, please go on. You put up enough warnings for anybody, who doesn't want spoilers to stop reading. I for one can't get enough. Bring it on - please :-)

Tress, thank you! If I didn't want spoilers, I wouldn't be reading SPOILERS. ;-)

(Shoshana)Tress, thank you! If I didn't want spoilers, I wouldn't be reading SPOILERS. ;-) Good point! Thank you, Tress. If you (or anyone) has mentioned it before, I apologize-just reading posts very quickly. Do we know who plays Jamie's cheating girlfriend?

Tress, loved your spoiler, thank you so much! I'm really looking forward to see this one. I'm a bit worried though, for I get breathless every time I hear Colin speak english, so I suspect that hearing his french, spanish and italian will put me right through the roof. Heaven help me, there is only so much my smitten little heart can take...

(Ildi) I suspect that hearing his french, spanish and italian will put me right through the roof. It nearly did me! And don't forget really bad Portuguese!

(Tress) but does the man ever escape the brown shoes?? LOL! Apparently not... HG was saying that to really see love, go to an airport arrival terminal. You can see people greeting each other and it gives you hope� Why am I having a flashback to the airport scene in the beginning of Dogma? The two angels have this *exact* conversation! In a Wisconsin airport, no less! HOLD ONTO YOUR SOCKS�he speaks French, Spanish and Italian in this scene! The vibrations have begun ;) So, now I have ruined it all for you!...Sorry to go on and on (again) !! No, no, this is why I'm here! Thank you so much for your spoilers!!!

Oh! There was some talk about the typewriter in LA. Jamie uses one for some reason...his house in France doesn't look to be 'internet ready' or to have too many conveniences like that (he does have a phone line, that is what they are looking for in the trailer (on the desk)...they hear a phone ring, pick up the land line and realize it is the cell, so start hunting under papers for it). But there is a remark by Arielle. She makes fun of him (of course he cannot understand) about "why would anyone do it this way?" and then when the papers go flying "who doesn't make copies of their work?" . I got the impression, when she runs off to rescue his 'manuscript' that he didn't care about it at all. I think it was more therapy for him to write at that time than anything else. He kept telling her it was "Awful" and "Please don't do that!!" Of course, when she started to strip, he stopped yelling those things! LOL! She later makes fun of how he types (one finger at a time...and I think he actually laughs be ause she acts it out).

He kept telling her it was "Awful" and "Please don't do that!!" In the LA trailer, (the second one)when the papers start to fly, you can hear CF's voice say "oh God, that's half the book" Do you hear that or remember hearing that?

(Linda) "oh God, that's half the book" Do you hear that or remember hearing that? I don't recall hearing that at all (but he probably did say it)! She starts chasing papers right away and he does say a lot of things, but the things I remember are him talking about how bad it is...and that it wasn't worth it for her to chase after it (while she makes fun of him for not making copies and "this better be good and not some tripe my grandmother could write"...something like that). It is his own criticism that made me think that he was writing just to take his mind off of what happened 'back home'.

Interesting interview with Scarlett Johannson. "When people say, "It must have been really challenging for you to play in Lost in Translation and Girl With a Pearl Earring," I think, "Are you kidding? They were a breath of fresh air. They were all you could wish for." It?s difficult when you?re trying to make something work that?s stupid or unrealistic and sappy. It?s terrible to have to do that kind of work. And it?s a shame because there are so many great actors who don?t really have any other option. I like to think that everybody wants to play the parts that I get to play. But it?s not like I don?t see my share of the worst material. In every script I get, it seems my character is a detective or something. It?s like, "Oh, come on!" whole article:The Orange County Weekly http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/04/03/film-morales.php Hope she can keep her high standards

Did anybody post a report on the Portsmouth, NH screening of GWAPE? I remember several lurkers planned to attend.

It's this weekend.

(Mari) GWAPE's MPAA Rating: PG-13 (for some sexual content) (Where???;-) The scene where Van Ruijven grabs Griet while she is hanging the clothes to dry is actually a lot more violent/frightening in the movie than in the book. The old hog was all over her in 2 seconds, and if he had a little more time he would've done the unthinkable. I was all tensed up while watching this, and kept thinking For god's sake Johannes, where the heck are you?" I knew he wouldn't show up, but badly wanted him to. And I won't tell you what I wanted to do with Cornelia for watching all this and doing nothing. There was something that bothered me about this part though, I wonder if anybody else wondered about this: after the almost - rape scene we see Griet's neck in a close up a couple of times with the bruises caused by Van Ruijven's fingers. Since it was shown so clearly and several times I thought it would have some significance, meaning someone was supposed to notice it (either Vermeer or one of the Mistresses), but no one even looked at it. Seemed like a loose end to me, as if they had something filmed after that but edited it out for some reason. This was another part where I felt something was missing, left out. Anybody else noticed this? Or did I miss something else that was actually there, I just didn't see it?

(Ildiko) There was something that bothered me about this part though, I wonder if anybody else wondered about this: after the almost - rape scene we see Griet's neck in a close up a couple of times with the bruises caused by Van Ruijven's fingers. Since it was shown so clearly and several times I thought it would have some significance, meaning someone was supposed to notice it (either Vermeer or one of the Mistresses), but no one even looked at it. Seemed like a loose end to me, as if they had something filmed after that but edited it out for some reason. In keeping with the social structure of the time, no one would notice or care about the bruises on a maid unless they stopped her from doing her work. Maybe the significance of those scenes is just that point: her bruises are ignored because in that household she's nothing, a maid, no one to worry about. Or maybe something was left on the cutting room floor. Just mho, not having seen the movie. Please keep those spoilers coming, can hardly wait to see this gem.

(Ildi) ...but no one even looked at it. Seemed like a loose end to me, as if they had something filmed after that but edited it out for some reason. This was another part where I felt something was missing, left out. Anybody else noticed this? Or did I miss something else that was actually there, I just didn't see it? I noticed and thought that no one saying anything was a bit odd. I would have thought at least Pieter (as I'm sure he saw her several times a week) would have said something. But I think Sonia has a good point. She was just a maid....and I think that everyone in the house knew who caused the bruises. No need to bring it up, though I suppose Vermeer would be furious, they didn't show his reaction at all.....he was really in a bad place. He needed Van R's patronage for his family, so even if he had seen them, what could he do? Though I suppose at least he could console Griet and try to protect her, he seemed a bit distant from domestic issues....only involving himself when Griet finally asked him to (the comb bit) or when it involved him directly (when Catarina tried to destroy the GWAPE pic or when he was trying to manipulate C into letting G into the attic....). Sorry I ramble. Seems like I went to "Faulker's School of Writing" .....

A question to those of you lucky enough to have seen the film. In the book, MT tries to protect G from Van R by sending her on errands and such. Was that relationship preserved on screen?

(Tress) But I think Sonia has a good point. She was just a maid....and I think that everyone in the house knew who caused the bruises. As far as I remember no one in the house saw those bruises. And that's what bothered me. We were never shown anybody noticing them at all, and that's why I don't think it was about "who cares, she is just a maid". Although you guys DO make a good point with that, I agree that that had to be the attitude back then. But in the movie there was no sign of anyone seeing the bruises, we never saw anyone noticing them and looking away with disinterest. That's why I didn't understand why they made such a point of it. I wish Vermeer noticed it, I would've loved to see his reaction. The quiet fury simmering in his eyes, lips pressed tightly together, his breathing barely controlled... but MUST be controlled...., sigh! Keep rambling Tress, and good thoughts Sonia!

(Ildiko) The quiet fury simmering in his eyes, lips pressed tightly together, his breathing barely controlled... but MUST be controlled...., sigh! Long hair flying, white puffy sleeves billowing, booted legs purposefully strutting, sword in hand avenging his family... Uh, sorry, got caught up in that musketeer fantasy again, will go cool off now.

(Ildi) As far as I remember no one in the house saw those bruises. True....wasn't she in the kitchen at one point and she put her hand to her neck (as if it bothered her) and wasn't Tanneke there? Still....even she (T) did not say anything! LOL Sonia!

(Tress)Seems like I went to "Faulker's School of Writing" ..... (Ildi)The quiet fury simmering in his eyes, lips pressed tightly together, his breathing barely controlled... but MUST be controlled...., sigh! (Sonia)Long hair flying, white puffy sleeves billowing, booted legs purposefully strutting, sword in hand avenging his family... Uh, sorry, got caught up in that musketeer fantasy again, will go cool off now. I love Faulkner! Don't stop your ramblin' now! I'm not sure whether this spoiler lurking is leading me to a stronger place or turning me into jelly in anticipation of this film. In any case, I can't seem to get enough! Keep it coming girls.....

(Tress)he seemed a bit distant from domestic issues Are you referring to the film? I know it is mentioned several times in the book.

(Linda) Are you referring to the film? I know it is mentioned several times in the book. Yes. I felt it in the film as well. It didn't appear he was going to do anything when Catarina started accusing Griet about the comb...she had to ask for his help. He seemed very wrapped up in things going on in his studio. He yelled at Cornelia when Griet was outdoors making the silver bowl reflect off the brick wall. The children were yelling and playing and trying to 'catch the light'. Vermeer (I'm pretty sure it was V that yelled and not Catarina...anyone?) was the one who yelled down for them to keep it quiet (making Cornelia mad and she sought revenge by staining the wash Griet had just finished). He just seemed like he was separate from domestic issues...from the kids and things occurring in the 'kitchen'.

(Tress)It didn't appear he was going to do anything when Catarina started accusing Griet about the comb... He yelled at Cornelia when Griet was outdoors .... ..... Vermeer (I'm pretty sure it was V that yelled and not Catarina...anyone?) ...... He just seemed like he was separate from domestic issues... Somehow this guy isn't turning into my hero.

(Mari) GWAPE's MPAA Rating: PG-13 (for some sexual content) (Where???;-) (Ildi)The scene where Van Ruijven grabs Griet while she is hanging the clothes to dry is actually a lot more violent/frightening in the movie than in the book. I agree this is part of the PG-13 rating because of how scary it is. I also think this is one of the two scenes that have received the criticism of being melodramatic. Which it possibly deserves. It will never be anyone's favorite scene, for sure. However, the way they used it and placed it in the movie, it becomes a very important part. She survives the piercing. Then, she survives the very traumatic assault. Then, next scene she is entering the tavern to look for Pieter. By the time she went to find Pieter, I had great sympathy for her and thought, "Poor girl, she has been through so much!" So, I think the order is: piercing, Van R and then Pieter. Boom, boom, boom. (Maybe if anyone saw it in NH this past weekend, they can correct that. It's really getting fuzzy.) It's the scene with Pieter that really puts it into PG-13, I think. They were faithful to the book in that regard. The first time I saw it, I thought it was iffy. I even overheard a couple of women discussing, "Did they or didn't they?" But, on second viewing, it was easier to tell, "They did." (Ildi) we see Griet's neck in a close up a couple of times with the bruises caused by Van Ruijven's fingers. Since it was shown so clearly and several times I thought it would have some significance Sad to say, I think the significance is that Vermeer no longer cares. The painting was finished except for the pearl earring by the time Van R makes his move. I think they show a very quick reaction shot of indifference and he gets busy painting. (Tress)I'm pretty sure it was V that yelled and not Catarina...anyone?) was the one who yelled down for them to keep it quiet He was. There is a very brief shot of him closing the window. This is one of the reasons I am very anxious to see the captures. It went by very quickly in the film but will probably be one of my favorite captures--like the waving good-bye scene in TIOBE.

(Evelyn) Somehow this guy isn't turning into my hero. LOL! I hear you. But you'll love him anyway. He looks absolutely delicious. Mmmm... (Caribou) I think they show a very quick reaction shot of indifference and he gets busy painting. See, I missed that. Thanks Caribou! I wish I had the DVD already. I'm dying to see all the details I missed. Yes, I know, I'm shutting up now. I know I have no right to complain, but .... can't help it. I want more. I need more.

(Ev.)Somehow this guy isn't turning into my hero. But he's an *arteeest!*. Never our heros perhaps, but they are the stuff that fantasies are made of.... IMHO. And are the folks that we are still interested in all those many years after they are *Dead People*.;-) (Caribou)It's really getting fuzzy.) Oh my no, make it up if you need to. Some of us (me for sure) will have to wait till next year and need your fuzzy recolections to tide us over till then. (Ildi)Yes, I know, I'm shutting up now. I know I have no right to complain, but .... can't help it. I want more. I need more. And this is the key! To have seen it and to be lusting......(or is this just me?), for more! I have been slipping to the Reuters site for the itty bitty poor clip and loving it so I'm sure I'll love seeing the whole thing. You lucky ducks who have seen it already have been lovely to share.

Great insights ladies. Can't wait to see it. I have the impression V is very manipulative of women and uses them for what he wants at the moment. Great part for Colin.

(FanPam) I have the impression V is very manipulative of women and uses them for what he wants at the moment. Interesting. My feeling is that the *arteeest!* is clueless about women and that they more easily manipulate him.

FanPam) I have the impression V is very manipulative of women and uses them for what he wants at the moment.Great part for Colin. ROTF...is the inference here that Colin is also manipulative;-))) (Sonia)Interesting. My feeling is that the *arteeest!* is clueless about women and that they more easily manipulate him. Hmmmm. My take ,from reading the book , is that he was not in love with Griet,the maid, but in love with the girl as depicted in the painting. Once the painting was finished...... See Ildi's comment below. (Ildi) Sad to say, I think the significance is that Vermeer no longer cares. The painting was finished except for the pearl earring by the time Van R makes his move. I think they show a very quick reaction shot of indifference and he gets busy painting. Which doesn't make him manipulative. He was an artist in love with his subject on the canvas

(Ev.)Hmmmm. My take ,from reading the book , is that he was not in love with Griet,the maid, but in love with the girl as depicted in the painting. Once the painting was finished...... Well there must be something *big* left or why the bequest of the earrings?

(Evelyn) My take ,from reading the book , is that he was not in love with Griet,the maid, but in love with the girl as depicted in the painting. Which was Griet's ultimate conclusion as well. (Beedee) why the bequest of the earrings? This is the reason why I concluded that he's clueless about women.

(Evelyn) ROTF...is the inference here that Colin is also manipulative;-))) ROFL Evie, I didn't even think of it that way. What I meant was that the character was a good roll for Colin. Wonder if he is? You know, all the mystery, changing of opinions, sometimes very outgoing, other times more reclusive. IMO I think when he's in the public eye he is playing a roll of his choosing at the time. After all he is an exceptional actor. IMO actors are acting before the public. The real person only the inner circle knows. Is he manipulative? LD would be the one to ask. LOL. (Evelyn) My take ,from reading the book , is that he was not in love with Griet,the maid, but in love with the girl as depicted in the painting. I agree, his interest in Griet was to get her on the canvas, once that was done, she was no longer of use. Any plattitudes towards her would have been with that design in mind, which gave me the impression of him being manipulative.

(Ildi)The scene where Van Ruijven grabs Griet while she is hanging the clothes to dry is actually a lot more violent/frightening in the movie than in the book. (Caribou)It's the scene with Pieter that really puts it into PG-13, I think. Thanks, ladies. with my concentration focused on Vermeer, clearly I'm forgetting that there are other people in the movie.

(Sonia) My feeling is that the *arteeest!* is clueless about women and that they more easily manipulate him. I don't know...I think he is quite aware of how to use the women of the house to his own ends. You'll love the scene were he gets Catarina to let Griet stay in the attic and Tanneke go back to the basement. There is a look on Tanneke's face....as is she is perfectly aware of what he is doing (I believe that T and Griet exchange glances during this scene). Catarina is putty....she'll do as he says. I don't think he was clueless at all, he just couldn't be bothered. He wanted what he wanted...nothing more. If things got complicated or difficult, I don't think he wanted to be involved (he did for Griet with the comb, but he had to be asked. If she hadn't said anything, I think he would have let that all play out). (Evelyn) My take, from reading the book , is that he was not in love with Griet, the maid, but in love with the girl as depicted in the painting. (Sonia) Which was Griet's ultimate conclusion as well. I think he loved Griet, just not like we expect. He enjoyed that she saw things the way he did...that she had an interest in what he did (fed that ego). Then, in the book (as I didn't get this in the film too much) I think his fascination was fed by Van R. as well. The earrings as a bequest...I'm not sure. I thought that they were given to help her remember (not that she would forget). I thought that it was V's way of saying that he had not forgotten what she had done for him and that he saw her as something more than a maid (IMO of course). It was her only chance to wear something like that and I think they both knew that when it was happening.

(Tress)I think he loved Griet, just not like we expect. He enjoyed that she saw things the way he did...that she had an interest in what he did (fed that ego). Then, in the book (as I didn't get this in the film too much) I think his fascination was fed by Van R. as well. This was what *I* got from the book (so far) as well. Her sense of color was the first thing that got his attention and then was Tress mentions seemed to follow eventually. The earrings as a bequest...I'm not sure. I thought that they were given to help her remember (not that she would forget). I thought that it was V's way of saying that he had not forgotten what she had done for him and that he saw her as something more than a maid (IMO of course). It was her only chance to wear something like that and I think they both knew that when it was happening. I'll go with the above too with the addition that it might be as payment of sorts for the piercing and other hazards of posing. That perhaps he was aware of and sorry for the position he put her in.

(Beedee)That perhaps he was aware of and sorry for the position he put her in. I felt in the book it was out of guilt, but I had hoped it was from unrequited love, as well. (Beedee)It was her only chance to wear something like that and I think they both knew that when it was happening. True, but then there is the very sensual scene of the piercing in the book and from the film. There had to be something more going on there for him, but it was impossible, due to the circumstances, to act on his feelings.

(FanPam) I have the impression V is very manipulative of women and uses them for what he wants at the moment. (Sonia)Interesting. My feeling is that the *arteeest!* is clueless about women and that they more easily manipulate him. Not having read the book or seen the movie :(, I can't comment on V as manipulator or manipulatee. But the discussion reminded me of this comment from the article CF wrote on Valmont: One autumn day, I sat having lunch with the now late and much lamented veteran actress Fabia Drake. We were about five weeks into a six month shoot of Valmont (an adaptation of Laclos' Les Liaisons Dangereuses, , by Milos Forman, in which I was playing the title role). I had been the object of Fabia's studious gaze for some moments when she suddenly blurted out: 'You are Valmont, aren't you! Milos is very clever at casting; he can see right into a person's heart. ' For anyone familiar with this character such a charge is difficult to ignore. I cannot remember whether or not I denied it at the time, but at some point I was struck by the realisation that I had never given the matter much thought. Valmont is known as one of the most cynical and destructive sexual manipulators in fiction. I, on the other hand, have always preferred to think of myself as a fairly decent sort of fellow. I had of course wondered why I had been given such a role, but had laid the issue to rest with the reassuring notion that I had been cast against type. To have it suggested by a perceptive elderly lady that I was a highly appropriate choice gave me pause for thought to say the least: do I really manipulate people? It was because of my inability to answer these questions that I began to get a better insight into what Forman was trying to achieve. http://www.geocities.com/kgjart/HandQValmArtclCF90.html

Thanks for the Valmont article Sandy. I enjoy reading that one and wonder about it often. I also enjoy his writing.

(BeeDee)Well there must be something *big* left or why the bequest of the earrings? Gratitude for being the subject of his beloved painting? Remorse for the anguish he cause her? I'm only talking about the book, since I haven't seen the film. And we all know this is "Peter Weber's adaptation of the book". Anyway, I like the ambiguous feeling that the ending seems to generate.

(Evelyn) Anyway, I like the ambiguous feeling that the ending seems to generate. It's even more ambiguous in the film. We don't even know how much time has passed, if she married Pieter, or where she even is (a room with chickens running about, dirt on the floor. Cannot remember if it is wood with dirt over it or just dirt)....we see Tanneke come in and hand her a folded up piece of cloth. I believe Tanneke has her hand to her mouth (trying to suppress a sob?) and then she leaves and it shows Griet, sitting down, opening up the cloth and we see the earrings. That's it...fin.

(Tress) ...and it shows Griet, sitting down, opening up the cloth and we see the earrings. That's it...fin. Tress, did the ending seem a bit abrupt to you? Or anyone else?

(Ildi) Tress, did the ending seem a bit abrupt to you? Or anyone else? It did, but I liked it. I think I liked it better than the book because you didn't know. You just know she recieved the earrings and there wasn't that scene with Catarina telling her she (C) could never wear them again.....and you weren't even sure if Vermeer was alive or dead (though you got that feeling from Tanneke's reaction). I liked how she saw the earrings and then it went to the painting (didn't it? or did it go to Van R in that room looking at the painting? GAH...it's getting fuzzy!) right before the credits began to roll.

A lurker (who might also have been a co-star..or perhaps that was just a whimsical email name;-))sent this to me and thought I might want to post it here. I do. See: http://www.tchevalier.com/guides/gwape.html 11. St. Francis De Sales, a 16th-century mystic, famously wrote that "the first part of the body that a man wants, and which a woman must loyally protect, is the ear." With this in mind, discuss the rich symbolism and implicit eroticism behind Vermeer's mandate that Griet pierce her ear. And what are the implications of Vermeer later demanding that Griet pierce her other ear as well, even though it is completely hidden in the painting?

Total domination? Sheesh! What a typical male! Thanks, Beedee.

(Moon)Total domination? I guess. He could have taken her virginity, but chose not to. So then, according to St.FDeS, he did the next best thing. And what are the implications of Vermeer later demanding that Griet pierce her other ear as well, even though it is completely hidden in the painting? By piercing the other ear, even though it remains hidden, she consents. It's their secret? The attraction and lust must remain hidden?

Sorry, got carried away with piercing symbolism. Closing tags

Thoughts on ear piercing as raised by St. De Sales. I hadn't ever really considered the ear as something coveted by a man, so I did a little research this afternoon. According to some the piercing of the ears beautifies the human body and is also protects the wearer from evil. One historian attributes piercing the ear as a punishiments for overhearing things that one shouldn't and that as consolation the person receives earrings. The more expensive the jewelry, the worse the pain and suffering the person had endured. Another study said that the ear was the microcosm of the body. Piercing has been used by many cultures as a rite of initiation into adulthood. The ear in some cultures was the repository of knowlege and the ear/hearing was closely related to social behaviour, morality, knowledge and understanding. To understand was to be raised able the ignorant, lower classes. In India and elsewhere I'm sure, the ear was an erogenous zone and the ear lobe was linked to sexual reflexes. Evidence exists that the ears have been sacrificed along with other sexual organs to dieties in Europe/Egypt and elsewhere. I don't have time to write my personal thoughts relating directly to the movie now. I must leave for an appoitment, but I want to see what you all that have more experience with the movie think about the information above. Please excuse typos, I don't have time to proofread. Michelle

Sheesh...I say rubbish: Most of those historians are probably males looking for symbollism why women get ( or should get ) their ears pierced. In latin countries baby girls get their ears pierced as infants. Pure adornments. I had my ears pierced because I didn't want to lose good earrings, and because the prettiest earrings are for pierced ears. Period.

What a job MJ! No wonder we see so many neck around the ear nuzzles from ODB. I haven't seen the film but this is a scene that has excited my anticipatiion. (MJ)Piercing has been used by many cultures as a rite of initiation into adulthood. This was certainly the case for me. Thanks for doing the interesting research. Lots of food for thought here.

(BeeDee)I have been slipping to the Reuters site for the itty bitty poor clip and loving it so... It's a good one, isn't it? It actually shows quite a bit about the movie. I think you can tell a lot from it. If you compare it to the same scene in the book, you can tell how they've changed things a bit. In the book, she continues cleaning and says a whole lot more. Here the film clearly shows the visual tie between seeing Griet clean the windows and the next painting he does. This is the first implication of her being his muse. It is right after this scene that he starts working again after finishing Van R's wife several months hence. He starts painting "Young Woman with an Ewer (Water Pitcher)". This is the most dominant painting in the movie, except for GWAPE. It is the one she sees through the camera obscura. It causes him to explain his painting process by having her look at the color of the clouds. It's the one where she moves the chair from the scene while cleaning and he then paints it out. You can get a feel for the quietness of the movie--how much time lapses and the amount of dialogue in that amount of time. It shows how much acting was required of the players. You can get a feel for the gentle humor that has been added to the film. SJ does a great job of looking very embarrassed and confused about what to do when she realizes she is holding a very ugly, dirty, dripping wet rag in what would otherwise be a beautiful scene. I love it when he says, "Drop it." Very commanding! You can also tell about the lighting and how like a Vermeer painting the movie seems. I've been looking up as many Vermeers as I can find and so many have the light coming from the left like that and several have that beautiful window in them. From both Vermeer's POV and Griet's POV, you can tell how the set designer fills up the wide space on either side of the people. Looking at Vermeer, you can see the angle of his easel as he approaches Griet. Looking at Griet, you can see the bucket and the table beside of her. I'm sorry I can't remember who, but someone posted this link when we first got the news of GWAPE. I bookmarked it. You can look at some of Vermeer's painting there. Young Woman with an Ewer is there so you can compare it to the clip. http://instruct.westvalley.edu/grisham/1b_dutbar.html

Caribou, you are driving me a little bit crazy......... but don't stop! *Still crazy after all those*.......spoilers!;-)

Thank you *mjmorris* for that research on ear piercing. My mother had my ears pierced @ two days old by the doctor before I left the hospital. I'm the second daughter, and remember my elder sister always being jealous that hers had not been pierced-she later had it done at around 32 y.o.. Although my junior sister now has pierced ears,I don't remember if that was done at birth..have to ask her.......

I saw GWAPE last night with another Drooler and a friend of hers as the kick-off film in a European Union Film Festival being held at a local art house-ish theater. The theater (a reasonably large one) was over half full, mostly middle-aged people and up, more women than men but there were still plenty of men. I thought it was a marvelous film, a class act all around. The visual beauty of it has already been well described by Caribou, Terry, and others, and it really is uncanny the degree to which the photography makes the whole thing look like a Vermeer painting. I thought all the performances were good, and SJ and CF were excellent. It's SJ's film - later I could only recall one scene in which she didn't appear (and it's a very short one late in the film). I think if CF's role had been equal in size to hers, he'd get equal attention for the quality of his work, but as it is she's bound to be the center of attention. His role is still fairly large, and even before we see him his presence kind of hovers over the film, just as it did in the book, but she's the protagonist so she's the central, unifying presence in the story. As the others have already said, there are many scenes in which the sexual tension is riveting. During the ear-piercing scene, I didn't hear a sound from anyone in the theater. I don't think any of us even moved, and I know I barely breathed. There's another scene where they are sitting side by side, mixing paints, and their hands ALMOST touch. I've never seen so much tension come from the question of whether or not two people's hands are going to touch. There's another scene where Vermeer and Catharina are just sitting around while Griet sets the table. There's almost no dialogue, but by the end of it the tension that's been built during all that silence is remarkable. Vermeer and Griet are almost painfully aware of one another, yet they try to hide it, because it's all too clear to Catharina what's going on. In another scene near the end, after Catharina has fired Griet, she's standing outside Vermeer's studio, considering going in to see him before she leaves. He knows she's out there... she knows he's in there. The scene cuts back and forth between the two of them, and even though she walks away without going into the room, it almost feels as though they had a conversation by the time the scene comes to an end. The movie is simply full of scenes like that - it's all about nuance and subtlety and nonverbal communication. Another interesting thing is that Vermeer sometimes seemed to use seductive behavior to attempt to manipulate Catharina. This was something I don't recall from the book. What's interesting is that later in the movie you see her attempt to do the same thing in reverse, but it fails utterly because by then he's obsessed with Griet and barely notices that Catharina exists. In my opinion, he vanished into his role in a way that he hasn't in quite a while. Maybe it was because he was in long hair and different clothes, so he didn't look like the guy in all the recent magazine articles (and hasn't THAT been fun???), but I think it might be more the case that he simply became Vermeer. I still thought he was AFG, but it was Vermeer who was AFG, not CF, if you see what I mean. Lots of stubble, lots of smouldering, and lots of close-ups. His detractors will probably say, in their oh-so-witty reviews, that he's just playing another in his long string of characters who repress their smouldering passions. And that is in fact what the role requires of him, but this was an entirely new performance, in my opinion. He wasn't just rehashing one of his Darcys, or any other character he's played. I started trying to think about what was different, and I decided that with Vermeer, there was something about him that seemed almost dangerous, perhaps closer to the edge of losing control, which I found very provocative. And I may have figured out why. Darcy's repression (in P&P and BJD) comes mostly from his own personality, from within. Vermeer is a quiet man, but he is not without emotions, and he doesn't necessarily hide them unless he has to. He is forced into repressing his feelings for Griet by his circumstances, not by his nature. And given that, it's to be expected that the feelings will be more raw, closer to the surface, and far more dangerous. It's showing again on Saturday night (anybody in the Washington, DC, area - it's at the AFI Silver Screen Theater in Silver Spring at 8:15 pm), and right now I'm trying to decide between seeing it or trying to locate a LA sneak preview. I must say, this is the sort of problem I wish I had more often!

(Rika) And that is in fact what the role requires of him, but this was an entirely new performance, in my opinion. He wasn't just rehashing one of his Darcys, or any other character he's played. Agree with you Rika! This is new stuff...and I think you explained it very well right here: He is forced into repressing his feelings for Griet by his circumstances, not by his nature. And given that, it's to be expected that the feelings will be more raw, closer to the surface, and far more dangerous.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Rika. It was fun to try to relive it through your recent observations. (Rika)I think if CF's role had been equal in size to hers, he'd get equal attention for the quality of his work, but as it is she's bound to be the center of attention. Still, I'm over the moon about the ad: For your consideration: Colin Firth-Best Actor. I just keep repeating it because it feels so good. Colin Firth-Best Actor. Colin Firth-Best Actor. At the end of the day, Lions Gate did right by him. Now, I'm hoping lots of Academy members get a good dose of Firth Fever and I hear Colin Firth-Best Actor as the camera focuses on him in his tux turning to give Livia a kiss before climbing those stairs to make his speech. (Rika)Lots of stubble, lots of smouldering, and lots of close-ups. There was one particular close up of him where his face filled that huge screen and the little triangular bit of stubble centered right below his lower lip was just above the bottom of the screen. Ahhh! Sigh!!! It's going to be so much fun when you get that DVD, Rika!;-)

(Caribou)There was one particular close up of him where his face filled that huge screen and the little triangular bit of stubble centered right below his lower lip was just above the bottom of the screen. Ahhh! Sigh!!! Ooh - something to look for when I see it again on Wednesday....

(Rika)..so he didn't look like the guy in all the recent magazine articles (and hasn't THAT been fun???), but I think it might be more the case that he simply became Vermeer. I still thought he was AFG, but it was Vermeer who was AFG, not CF, if you see what I mean. Oh yes, Rika. I see exactly what you mean :-) The fact, that you simply saw Vermeer instead of CF is IMHO one of the greatest compliments, you can pay an actor. Thank you so much for you thoughts and observations. You made my day :-)

Rika, I'm so glad you finally saw it too. You sound as bewitched as the rest of us. Happy second viewing! I'm counting the days till January...

Short GWAPE review: I didn't like the book but I like the movie. Agree with previous comments, the cinematography is gorgeous, it was compelling viewing. Colin and Scarlett fantastic. I felt there would have been some confusing parts, like the beginning, if I had not read the book, but overall really well done.

Thank you so much for your review, Katty! Can't wait til Wed. As usual, I had read way too much about the film and knew almost all that was going to happen, so I think a better appreciation of the overall film will have to wait for my second viewing when I can evaluate it more objectively. The first viewing of Colin's movies are always the throwaways anyway. ;-)

Here's my take on the movie that I initially posted on the wrong thread (184), plus another thought: Got to see GWAPE at the Hawaii International Film Festival, and it was well worth the long wait in line. The one and only showing was sold out and the audience was enthusiastic. As usual, I had read way too much about the film and knew almost all that was going to happen, so I think a better appreciation of the overall film will have to wait for my second viewing when I can evaluate it more objectively. But as far as Colin, goes, he was everything I'd expected of him, and more. Very virile and forceful, sexy and smouldering, but different from Darcyesque characters. This Vermeer is a more self-centered and manipulative - an artist for whom his art comes first. His palpable attraction to Griet fulfilled him more as an impetus for his art than for his libido. In his own way, I think he used her almost as much as Van Ruijven tried to. I think he sacrificed Griet not because of convention, but because of his art. The chemistry between the two is amazing. The sexiest scene by far is when he sees Griet with her long hair. (As one critic wrote, she will never look as beautiful again.) His look was hot enough to burn holes in plaster. Their lip-wetting scene may cause a spike in collagen lip implants. Although his presence drives the film, Colin is clearly a supporting actor to Scarlett, and I think she deserves at least an Oscar nomination. Having to operate on the suppressed level required of a maid in a subservient position, she managed to convey such an astonishing range of emotions with no big tantrums or "money" scenes. She was believable and touching and sympathetic throughout, and very beautiful in a nontraditional way. This is clearly an art movie, both literally and figuratively, and thus does not have any chance of being a blockbuster. It is very slow-paced and character-, not action-driven. (It's way better than that the over-rated The Hours, which won Nicole Kidman an oscar last year.) But if marketed properly and if blessed with Oscar nods (actress and cinematography especially), it has a good chance of being a respectable prestige success. My thoughts on Tracy Chevalier not thinking Colin an ideal choice for Vermeer: Maybe she found him too Hollywood handsome (and there are some shots of him that simply take your breath away) and distracted from the "meeting of minds" between the two. With Colin in the role he could have just sat there painting stick figures and still inspire lust in her. Alan Rickman on the other hand... Another thought on the movie (warning - more of a Spoiler): Pieter and Vermeer never meet in the movie, so there was no jealousy shown by Vermeer toward Pieter. I missed this aspect of the book in the movie because it illustrated more graphically how possessive Vermeer was of Griet. The book also more effectively contrasted the two men and their very different worlds - eg bloody hands of Pieter vs the artistic hands of Vermeer, working class vs high class, young vs middle age, equal vs master.

Oh Rika, Katty, thanks for being chatty. Looking forward to seeing GWAPE and will satisfy myself with your spoilers 'til then. Keep sharing. Just returned from the LA sneak preview. Sorry to say I didn't feel much love, actually :-(

(Sonia)Just returned from the LA sneak preview. Sorry to say I didn't feel much love, actually :-( I didn't hate the movie and I didn't love it either. I don't know if I would have bothered to see it if it weren't for ODB. It was cute, though, and I'm sure lots of people will go see it (the theater I was in was almost full). It was mostly cute, fun fluff, but hey, marshmallows have their place in the world too. Of course, I will go see it again and buy the DVD and such. It was actually the first time I had seen ODB on the big screen (except for SIL, which I saw before I even knew who Colin Firth was) and that alone was lovely. I'll have to watch a few more times before I make a final analysis. ;-)

(Sonia)Just returned from the LA sneak preview. Sorry to say I didn't feel much love, actually :-( (Shoshana) I didn't hate the movie and I didn't love it either. Ok, I feel better. I'm just back too. Glad to see you two post the way you did, wondered where my wiring was loose. Trying to figure out if waiting and waiting for something that was supposed to be so wonderful just could not have lived up to its billing. Right now, I mainly think I feel like Karl and Sarah must have felt. Will try to be more thorough later.

I just returned from LA and loved it. I haven't been to a film in a long time where I laughed from beginning to end. Yes, it had fluff and sentimentality, but I must say that Colin, Hugh, Liam, Bill, Laura, and Emma were fantastic. As for Colin's part...I need to go back several times. I got so caught up with watching him, (nah) that I didn't have time to look at the subtitles. (I had my throwaway) Judging from the audience reaction and what little I caught, it was pretty funny. The best was in the lake with the eels, and at the end when he is proposing and the verb tenses are all wrong. Again, this part got the best laughs as far as Colin's storyline. Bill Nighy was hilarious, and, yes he does say f--k a lot;-)Stole the show, IMO. I could have done with out the porn star scenes. It was funny, but that time could have been put to better use by using what I'm sure is a lot of good stuff on the cutting room floor. Loved Emma Thompson's and Laura Linneys' storylines. I do enjoy a feel good movie every now and then. I don't think I could take a season of Sylvia's, In the Cut, Veronica Guerin, etc. without a bit of feel good in between. Good films, but if you need a good laugh and few tears this is the one that has it all. Not to mention one very AFG man.

I liked it. I would have cut the "all I want for Christmas" production number--that was a bit too cutesy. Biggest laugh of the night was in the discussion about the nativity pageant, when Emma T said to her daughter "I didn't know there were lobsters at the birth of Christ." and the kid said, "Well, duh." Lots of laughs for Colin's crowd-gathering walk through town and then the proposal. (Right near the end of that part, he turns to the crowd, and that's when I could see some scalp.) I like Jamie's early scenes with Aurelia, especially the scene after the lake when they get up from the table, and try to avoid bumping into each other. Very sweet, very restrained, especially as she's wrapped in a blanket at that point (it looked scratchy.) When Aurelia took off her clothes to jump in the water after the manuscript, I had hopes, but then he went and tripped before he could remove anything but the heavy sweater. Darn! At times I had too much of a BJD deja-vu thing--cruel ex-girlfriend, him at the airport (tantrum over the taxi was a bit too silly), him rushing to find her now that he's realized he loves her. The wide-eyed look when Aurelia's sister kissed him was funny. I didn't think his typing was as bad as Aurelia described it. His hands are too large for that keyboard, though. He appeared to be typing with all fingers, not hunt-and-peck, but was one row too high (seemed to have the qwerty row as the home keys, not the asdaf row). The end was a clever idea--bring it all back to the airport thing. But that was too forced. And there were sudden unexplained relationships. How did Jamie know the artist and the newlyweds? Why were they meeting him at the airport? And there was another group at the airport (can't remember who now) who hadn't been connected earlier. And why were they ALL traveling at the same time? And on the subject of unexplained connections, why were the two actors' stand-ins going to the Christmas pageant? They seemed to just bump into people who knew them, so who invited them there? They didn't have kids... Bill Nighy was hysterical. I can see why Colin wanted to do his part--an extension of his budding musical career from air-guitarist to using a real guitar. I'm not a prude about language--nobody said any words that I don't use often enough--but did it strike anyone that Liam's conversations with his stepson were a bit too adult? How old was the kid? Most parents are still trying to watch their language in front of kids that young. And telling the kid that he'd be having sex all over the house--the joke seemed inappropriate to the kid's age.

(Kate)How did Jamie know the artist and the newlyweds Just friends, he went to their wedding. They were picking up Jamie and Auerila at the airport. (Kate)And there was another group at the airport (can't remember who now) who hadn't been connected earlier. The other group was LN and ET/AR...they were together at the school Christmas pagent and I assumed they knew each other as parents sending their kids to the same school. They acknowledged each other at the play as well. I also think Colin's kiss at the end was not bad bordering on v. good. Obviously the director didn't shout, "I want to see tongues", but he was on the verge. Lips were definitely parted. All this aside, will I see it 15 times, no. Will I see it 10, no. But 3-5 is a definite. I felt I missed a lot. The scenes were quick almost too quick. Colin's I felt were a bit choppier than most. I don't think that because I was too busy watching him, I got that impression as I was watching the film.

(Shoshana) I don't know if I would have bothered to see it if it weren't for ODB Even without ODB, the rest of cast would've got me to the theater. Yet even with ODB, unless the box office suffers, there won't be any repeat viewing for me. I'll save them for GWAPE and Trauma. The actors were fine, the storylines were good, actually and there were some laughs. It's just that the movie felt like one looooooong sitcom that's found the right jokes and gags and milks them for all they're worth, interrupted time and again by the same, lame beer commercial. (Kate) Biggest laugh of the night was in the discussion about the nativity pageant, when Emma T said to her daughter "I didn't know there were lobsters at the birth of Christ." and the kid said, "Well, duh." From "my" audience too. When Aurelia took off her clothes to jump in the water after the manuscript, I had hopes, but then he went and tripped before he could remove anything but the heavy sweater. Darn! Can you tell a man made this movie ;-) How did Jamie know the artist and the newlyweds? He was at their wedding. Why were they meeting him at the airport? One of life's mysteries. And there was another group at the airport (can't remember who now) who hadn't been connected earlier. Do you mean the Brit and his American beauties meeting up with his buddy who worked in the movies? And why were they ALL traveling at the same time? That's why they call it peak season ;-) And telling the kid that he'd be having sex all over the house--the joke seemed inappropriate to the kid's age. From an adult point of view I agree. However, kids today talk and kid about sex much more that I ever did as a kid, or even a teen for that matter. One thing I've learned though is that a lot of kids (hopefully... please) don't have the adult understanding of what sex really is, and the adult connotation goes right over their heads (again, hopefully).

...One more tidbit then I'm outta here for the night. Keep forgetting to ask this. At the beginning of the film when all the people are meeting and greeting (not the cast) just ordinary people, did anyone else see Richard Curtis?

OK, this is all early impression stuff, but want to get it down. Emma Thompson is flat out, hands down, the most wonderful actress I think I have had the pleasure of seeing. Her distraught wife scene, trying to keep it all together in the face of utter desolation, was fabulous. And that I make this comment about a performance in a romantic comedy is telling. They aren't kidding about ambiguity. I had to make out a score card. Of the stories that have what would be normally considered "happy endings", I can only count the following: Jamie and Aurelia: Wish I could buy into it but suspension of belief (even for ODB) does not allow for "I wish to marriage you" to a woman you have never really spoken to. Looks like you were delusional in your first relationship, how about doing it all again? The storyline was cute, ODB was cute, the kiss sucked -- no wait, it didn't, that was the problem-- and I think this storyline more than maybe any other, suffered from the lack of time that went to other, less worthy stories. Hugh and Martine: Cute but... HG dancing was funny but was he supposed to look so ill put together throughout? The catalyst Christmas card...more suspension of belief. And does she not even wonder why she has been "redistributed' or whatever the word was? And he is the Prime Minister, surely he could have gotten her address...going door-to-door...OK, just call me Scrooge. Liam and stepson: Maybe the one true love relationship I really could see and I'm not sure many would have this one on their scorecards. The only other "wins" here were condom-boy and the porno stand-ins. OH, except for Bill Nighy. Loved him, loved his story, scene stealer is right. Other thoughts: The other story line that suffered from lack of development was the PM and the Pres. The PM looked good putting it to him and it was almost cheerworthy 'cause you knew the Pres was a slime-ball, but for the early move of the new PM to be to totally estrange the Pres after their first face-to-face, it felt like swatting a fly with a .357. One true thing: The Keira Knightley storyline. When Andrew Lincoln walks away and says "enough", that felt right. But not a happy ending. Emma and Alan: write your own ending. Have to see it again. Does he ask her at the end, at the airport, how she is? If he cares, and since she is there to meet him, one can only hope mature love will eventually win the day? Saw the movie with my dh...hope he did not get a whiplash when the secretary leaned back in her chair and spread her knees. Oh, and Emma is the sister of the PM. I know that does not mean wealth by association, but her home felt claustrophobic. Sarah and Karl: Rodrigo Santoro should be illegal. What a bod. Painful storyline...selfless love=lack of self love. No win there. Great music, scenery. Several more viewings to come. But a feel good movie? I can't see it.

(Linda) did anyone else see Richard Curtis? Yes, thought that was him. Speaking of the beginning, I'll be daring and bring it up. I understand that at the time the movie came about 9/11 was at the forefront for everyone. Even though it wasn't said distastefully, it felt a bit exploitative, imo. The message that love is all around was working fine without the 9/11 reference. Bringing it up, I'm wondering what RC was really trying to say.

I did not notice Curtis. (Sonia)Just returned from the LA sneak preview. Sorry to say I didn't feel much love, actually :-( (Shoshana) I didn't hate the movie and I didn't love it either. (Barbara)Ok, I feel better. That's 4 of us. I was set to really like and enjoy this film. I was let down. But I am not the average film watcher. I'm sure that Curtis and luvvie gang will end up making the millions their hyping for.

(Moon) Hugh was terrible. Seems he was doing the HG thing only not as well as before. Also, his PM acts as if he got to nbr 10 by mistake. You know "it was a joke, I didn't think I would get elected. What am I supposed to do now? How should I talk to the pres? Should I be a yes man or back up my team." Hard to buy Colin's storyline as well as others. Real life will surprise you (it does me). That's part of its charm. Guess Rc was trying to convey that on screen. The ending was more pat than a classic "happy" one. Hence no feel-good feeling. Christmas was used as the backdrop yet it didn't enhance the storylines. Missed opportunity for the first time director. That's 4 of us. Is this a regional thing? Anyone in areas other than the South share our opinions? (Barb) Rodrigo Santoro should be illegal. What a bod. What a face. What a mouth. Oooooooh yeah. Yum! :-d Her distraught wife scene, trying to keep it all together in the face of utter desolation, was fabulous. Ab-solutely. And her joy at finding the necklace in his pocket. Her eagerness to open her present "like a kid on Christmas morning". And the utter disappointment when she sees her gift. Gutting. Bravo, ET.

(Sonia) Is this a regional thing? Anyone in areas other than the South share our opinions? Not "south" here (Indiana), but since we all (in Indiana) come from down thattaway anyway (cannot believe I just said that) who can tell?

(Barb) Not "south" here (Indiana) Eh, wado I know? I'm a transplanted nuyoka.

(Barb) Rodrigo Santoro should be illegal. What a bod. He looked gay to me. (I lived in West Hollywood and you would not believe the waste of beautiful men) ;-) Her distraught wife scene, trying to keep it all together in the face of utter desolation, was fabulous. Agreed. (Moon), Hard to buy Colin's storyline as well as others. (Sonia), Real life will surprise you (it does me). That's part of its charm. Guess Rc was trying to convey that on screen. It was not developed. Not enough tension, rather superficial. I didn't buy it. Seems he was doing the HG thing only not as well as before. Exactly. Old and trite and seen.

(Sonia) Is this a regional thing? Nope. Checking in here from the northeast, I was disappointed in the film. Too many story lines, not enough time to develop any of them. What you're left with is a series of punchlines instead of a movie. Very lazy filmmaking, IMO. And talk abut requiring suspension of belief! --Liam Neeson's wife died within the past month--and he (and his stepson, whose mother it is that died!!) are already on the lookout for someone else for him? I don't think so. --Colin is proposing to Lucia after having shared no real conversations and one kiss? --The PM tells off the President--at a public news conference? --The kid can get through airport security because the security people are distracted by . . . a TV show? That's just for starters. Anyway, there were a some good laughs to be had, it's a cute movie, Colin is adorable, Emma Thompson is a treasure. But of all of Curtis's films, this is my least favorite.

Just got home from Omaha (closest preview to me). The show was sold out and most everyone showed (even though it was misting and it was predicted to freeze). I loved the movie, but I love rom-com's. Thought Colin looked AFG. Loved the crowd as they gathered behind him (lots of laughs). Loved the badly conjugated verbs (again laughs from audience). I didn't see the proposal as a leap. I felt that the time they spent together, language barrier aside, gave them to opportunity to know each other. Loved the relationship between Liam and son. I, however, plan not to have those kinds of conversations with my children even when they are 40. I did feel that they had a real love for each other. Emma Thompson's performance killed me. I cried along with her as she tried to compose herself. The ladies next to me commented that they wanted to know, in the end, if the affair ended or if Emma was just being brave for the kids. Rowan Atkinson's two scenes were absolutely priceless. He made Alan Rickman's character squirm so well. Was there anything else he could do to that stupid present??? Then to show up so Sam could sneak through was fabulous. The wink!!! I loved the look on Keira Knightly's face as she watched the video. Hugh's dance was funny. It got lots of laughs from the audience. I thought he looked horrible throughout, though. Very pale and washed out. He really isn't very believable as PM. As everyone has said, Bill Nighy steals every scene he's in. I could have done without the "stand-ins" or the Wisconsin girls. Overall, I'll probably see this 2 or 3 more times in the theater.

Thank you, everyone. Interesting to read all the differing opinions. Am surprised at the wide range of differences, actually. Can't wait until Tues to see what camp I fall into.

(Sonia) Is this a regional thing? Anyone in areas other than the South share our opinions? Well, Virginia is more or less the south (depends on which part and who you ask)... and I liked it. First, an audience story. There were four women down the row from us, and before the movie, I heard one of them mention CF's name. DH was talking to me, and I shushed him so I could eavesdrop. She was explaining that he was in BJD, and promised to nudge them when CF came onscreen so they'd know who he was. She apparently did as promised, because I heard some whispering and a quiet, "Oh!" when he appeared. (BarbS) Emma Thompson is flat out, hands down, the most wonderful actress I think I have had the pleasure of seeing. Absolutely. I can see why some critics have singled her out for her performance here. Sarah and Karl: Rodrigo Santoro should be illegal. What a bod. Painful storyline...selfless love=lack of self love. No win there. I've never seen him before, but... WOW. Actually I thought he was too pretty to be paired with her. She's attractive, but he made her look kind of bland and worn out. Very sad situation. (Linda)I could have done with out the porn star scenes. It was funny, but that time could have been put to better use by using what I'm sure is a lot of good stuff on the cutting room floor. Agreed. That one, and Wisconsin Boy, could have been left out, and the time devoted elsewhere, with no loss whatsoever. When they appeared on her doorstep after their date, DH turned to me and said, "Who the heck are they?" He didn't recognize them with their clothes on. I really disliked the Wisconsin stuff, and the audience in general didn't seem to care for it much. But I suppose it was there for the "dumb guy" demographic. Moon) Hugh was terrible. I thought he was okay, but it was a rehash of the usual HG performance. Our audience didn't seem to enjoy him much. About the only really big laugh HG got was for his dance. I didn't like Billy Bob or that subplot. ODB's storyline seemed to be one of the audience's favorites. I loved him - big surprise there! He was positively charming - the role exploited the sweet, gentle quality he brings to a lot of his roles. It was also nice for a change to see him in a part that allowed him to smile. Not all the endings were happy, but if anything, I thought that counterbalanced the "sitcomish" feeling, and made things not entirely predictable, so I liked it.

(Rika) and I liked it. On your WAGW-o-meter-repeat-viewings scale of 1 to 13, how would you rate LA?

I'd have to give it a an OK-ish rating, but it certainly didn't strike me as being as good as Notting Hill, 4 Weddings or BJD, films which I can watch over and over again (despite trademark cheesy Curtisisms). I found the underdeveloped storylines and characters very problematic. How can anyone accept the endings under those circumstances? (Barb) Rodrigo Santoro should be illegal. What a bod. (Moon) He looked gay to me. LOL! This guy's Brazilian. Perhaps will Google to see if his sexual preferences have been noted. But he *is* something. yum yum Am going to have to defend Huge here. His comedic skills/timing are perfect. True, you may not believe him to be a prime minister, but the man can not elicit laughter with a look or line, but there was some excellent acting as I said in the moments leading up to his rah-rah England speech. Would a PM do this at a joint press conference? No. But neither would some many other scenes occur in real life. Loved the new rendition of Both Sides Now by Joni Mitchell BTW and how much it added to the poignancy of the Emma Thompson storyline. (Kate) Biggest laugh of the night was in the discussion about the nativity pageant, when Emma T said to her daughter "I didn't know there were lobsters at the birth of Christ." and the kid said, "Well, duh." Here too. I forgot. (Linda) At the beginning of the film when all the people are meeting and greeting (not the cast) just ordinary people, did anyone else see Richard Curtis? I thought I saw him in the final airport scene, standing behind some of the stars. Emma Thompson IMO was fabulous. Her light comedy and heart-breaking dramatic segments cannot be beat by anybody else in this cast. She was one of the few characters who seemed real and, therefore, somebody you could care about. I'm going to have to go back to the LA website and study that diagram because I can't figure out Liam Neeson's connection to the other characters. Initially, it seemed like only Colin had the most tangential relationship (friend of the groom) to the others, but did Liam's seemed the most unconnected to me. He knew Emma Thompson, but was that it?

(Barb) Saw the movie with my dh...hope he did not get a whiplash when the secretary leaned back in her chair and spread her knees. I noticed a similar reaction among the men sitting around me. ;-)

Thanks Karen and Mari for your thoughts. Opinions seem to be pretty even between positive, negative, and middle of the road. Mari, would you email me at home if you can get mail back, or check your other email if you can, if you haven't already. Thanks.

(Karen)I can't figure out Liam Neeson's connection to the other characters. I just figured it was a connection through parents with children attending the same school. Now I'm all confused, too. Must go back and figure it out. But didn't Emma and Liam have a conversation about his wife, and the problems with the step-son? Thinking they are neighbors, close friends. As I said last night I missed so many of Colin's subtitles. They moved so quickly and some of the dialogue was lost because people were LOL. But the subtitles I did catch (because I didn't have to look at his AFG face) were the ones from Auerila's father and sister. "Papa is going to sell Auerila to an Englishman...he's going to kill Auerila." Then the father's "Ms. Dunkin Donuts Queen of 2002"...not exact but from what I remember. Also liked when Jamie shows up with the Christmas presents then decides he has to leave "to do what a man has to do" and the kids who were just so excited to see him with all the gifts start saying, I hate Uncle Jamie. Also liked Jamie's first scene at the typewriter when he says, "Alone, again, naturally". Of course that song is now in my head since last night I thought the film did what it set out to do. Agree with Karen that it is a weaker RC film than his others, but I didn't expect to see 10 super developed storylines. That was a given knowing beforehand what the film was about. Yes, they could have done without two of the stories, and developed the others more. I did like HG in this. So did the audience (demographically speaking, from Central NJ);-) He seems to always deliver what is expected, and from the POV of my audience, he did it again. For me, I did expect to laugh a lot. I did.

(Karen)I can't figure out Liam Neeson's connection to the other characters. And why would Curtis explain that one, since he really did not explain so many of the others? Definitely my least favourite of his films. BTW, I liked Hugh in BJD. In LA he doesn't put much of an effort.

Burning Question: How does LA compare with Gosford Park. Does Robert Altman have to worry;-)

(moi)I can't figure out Liam Neeson's connection to the other characters. (Linda) I just figured it was a connection through parents with children attending the same school....But didn't Emma and Liam have a conversation about his wife, and the problems with the step-son? Thinking they are neighbors, close friends. I couldn't find that diagram at the site. Anybody remember where it was? As I recall, there were generally, at least, three lines from each character's name going to other characters, representing connections at some level. Liam knowing Emma from school (perhaps she was good friends with the mother) would be one, but what were the others? FYI, Colin seemed the most precariously connected character, as he seemed to only know the groom, and therefore could've been lopped out of the movie. (Linda) Then the father's "Ms. Dunkin Donuts Queen of 2002"...not exact but from what I remember. Do you think Dunkin Donuts is big in Portugal? I found that one rather strange. But it reminds me of the one part of this film that I disliked the most--Richard Curtis's fat comments--first about Martine (could you possibly believe that the PM's chief of staff/asst would refer to the Tea Lady that way?) and then about Aurelia's sister. Tasteless IMO, but so very Richard. (Linda) Also liked when Jamie shows up with the Christmas presents then decides he has to leave "to do what a man has to do" and the kids who were just so excited to see him with all the gifts start saying, I hate Uncle Jamie. But he left the presents for them, so there would be no reason to hate Uncle Jamie. Unrealistic IMO. I suppose Jamie would've brought his own car over to France, right? That would explain a car with a steering wheel on the right side, huh? (Linda Also liked Jamie's first scene at the typewriter when he says, "Alone, again, naturally" That was good. I did enjoy the Jamie-Aurelia scenes a lot. His trying to communicate initially in his hodgepodge of languages reminded me of a similar experience I've had, where a waiter finally told this person that he didn't understand Spanish and could she speak in English. I laughed at that then and I laughed at this now, especially the older woman who arranged for Aurelia to clean his house. I loved her comments about Jamie's language skills. (Evelyn) Burning Question: How does LA compare with Gosford Park. Does Robert Altman have to worry;-) LOL!

The sneak preview of Love Actually showed with Intolerable Cruelty - both for $9. Cincinnati does have its moments. Ages in the audience varied from little old ladies to groups of twenty somethings. Love Actually was a big hit here. The contrast with Intolerable Cruelty was stark - people left before it finished. I thought Curtis accomlished what he wanted to with the film. It may be simplistic and overly sentimental, but I enjoyed it. Sometimes I need to be reminded that "love is all around". The Christmas scene between the brother and sister was very poignant. Love of one kind giving way to love of another kind. Did anyone else notice that love and sex were separated? I wonder it that's the point of the porn star story line. I liked Colin's performance. It struck me as more well rounded and showed a broader range of his acting skill than many of his other perfomances. His story got lots of audience response ranging from the gasp when he hears his wife talking to his brother to lots of laughter at all the right places. This audience was definitely rooting for a happy ending for Jamie. I'll see it a few more times. Thanks to all of you who post so regularly and contribute all of the pictures and links. It's very much appreciated!

(Karen)But he left the presents for them, so there would be no reason to hate Uncle Jamie. Unrealistic IMO. But did he leave them? I remember him backing out of the door, and I thought he still had the bags in his hands, thus the kids being mad at him?? Just another one of those reasons to go back and see.

(Karen)the one part of this film that I disliked the most--Richard Curtis's fat comments--first about Martine (could you possibly believe that the PM's chief of staff/asst would refer to the Tea Lady that way?) and then about Aurelia's sister. Tasteless IMO The fat comments really got in the way of my enjoying the movie and I think were one of the major reasons I couldn't love it. Natalie wasn't fat. She wasn't even approaching fat. She was a lovely normal size. That aside, I like the movie a bit more now that I've thought about it. I did appreciate that (for a RC movie) it was ethnically diverse. There were actually black/non-white characters with some significance to the story. I could have done without the Wisconsin story line, though I did appreciate "Colin, god of sex" (refering to someone elso of that name, of course!). ET was wonderful. AR and LN put in nice parts too. I thought HG was so-so, but he did a good job playing a HG role. Oh, and about the precarious connections between the various characters/storylines, maybe the kids at the Nativity Pageant should have been singing "It's a Small World After All." ;-)

(Mary) Did anyone else notice that love and sex were separated? I wonder it that's the point of the porn star story line. I don't want to single you out--because several people have referred to it as a "porn" movie, but it is not. The pair are merely "stand-ins" for actors in a movie. I'm sure RC used nude scenes to illustrate the ridiculousness of two people in that position who are getting to know each other at a more meaningful level than skin level. ;-) (Linda) But did he leave them? I thought the woman at the door had bags in her hand as he left. Think I'd better add some of the other comments from the Production Notes to the website on the other storylines...

(Karen) I'm going to have to go back to the LA website and study that diagram because I can't figure out Liam Neeson's connection to the other characters. That was confusing. The only hint we get was in LN's phone call to her at the start of the movie, where he says something along the lines of how he hates to be tiresome about it, but she's one of the only people he can call and talk to. When he made the call, my gut reaction was, "He's calling his ex-wife," though I'm not sure I can defend that impression. (Sonia) On your WAGW-o-meter-repeat-viewings scale of 1 to 13, how would you rate LA? Nowhere near the high end of the scale, for starters just because ODB's part isn't big enough to justify that level of viewing. GWAPE, OTOH....

Curtis closes, "I'm very haunted by what constitutes being 'realistic'--if I had to say, to me The Sound of Music seems to be quite a realistic piece of work. That film, which is accused of being totally saccharine, says two things: that good people hated the Nazis, which they did; and that lots of people fall in love and love their children, which they do. So there seems to me to be more truth to that than something that's called a searingly realistic drama, because all over the world, every minute of every day, people are falling in love. I say that no matter how dark the world gets, the actual texture has a lot to do with love."It's obvious that the man's perspective is very different. He is microfocusing and I've been generalizing.

(Rika) When he made the call, my gut reaction was, "He's calling his ex-wife," though I'm not sure I can defend that impression. I got that impression too and I have no idea where it came from....just thought it was his ex, at the very least, they are obviously friends. (Karen) But he left the presents for them, so there would be no reason to hate Uncle Jamie. Unrealistic IMO. Maybe Uncle Jamie is a hoot. Maybe they hate him (leaving) cuz he's the only adult that will hang them upside down (a dangler) or give them chocolate before dinner..... (Karen) FYI, Colin seemed the most precariously connected character, as he seemed to only know the groom, and therefore could've been lopped out of the movie. He knew Laura Linnney too. What did AR and LL do? Was that a publishing house? Jamie would have possible work connections there.... BTW, I love the end where Aurelia meets KK and AL (it was AL right?) at the airport and makes the remark about how she may have made a mistake with Englishman. Something about so many good looking friends....ha! Like we'd believe he was the plain one! (Karen) I suppose Jamie would've brought his own car over to France, right? That would explain a car with a steering wheel on the right side, huh? LOL...I forgot about that bit! Maybe he was upset...took his own car on the ferry and then "drove all night". But then he probably could have packed more stuff.....like his laptop....

A glass half-full observation from MCP's alter ego: There's no way Colin will be accused of being "HG-lite" in this film. I saw nothing remotely HGish about the character or the way he was played by Colin. Hey, even Huge IMO didn't play the PM in his older, stereotypical way, i.e., no eyelash fluttering, stuttering, floppy haired, etc., that I noticed. Guess he decided a PM wouldn't do those things. ;-) Colin can hold his head high here. Nothing embarrassing about being in this movie and an equal with the actors in this cast. Thankful for small favors.

(Tress) He knew Laura Linnney too. Just because he was sitting next to her at the wedding??? Dunno 'bout that. I love the end where Aurelia meets KK and AL (it was AL right?) KK is married to Chiwetel Ejiofor); AL played Mark, the best friend, who was also at the airport.

Have found the diagram. Liam Neesen's lines are only drawn to ET and the kid, who is connected to BN's character because they are "musicians" and to Joanna, his "love."

(Karen), several people have referred to it as a "porn" movie, but it is not. The pair are merely "stand-ins" for actors in a movie. I'm sure RC used nude scenes to illustrate the ridiculousness of two people in that position who are getting to know each other at a more meaningful level than skin level. ;-) And that was again, ridiculous! Those two stand-ins were pretty porny, but everyone knows that a porno film is shot and that's it. No wasting time setting up the shots. What kind of a movie would it have been? Kubricks "Eyes Wide Shut"? ;-) That was a preposterous story line. Jamie did leave the presents. (Karen), Colin can hold his head high here. Nothing embarrassing about being in this movie and an equal with the actors in this cast. Very true. His performance was vintage Colin.

(Karen)Colin can hold his head high here. Nothing embarrassing about being in this movie and an equal with the actors in this cast. Thankful for small favors. Amen!! (Tress)BTW, I love the end where Aurelia meets KK and AL (it was AL right?) at the airport and makes the remark about how she may have made a mistake with Englishman. Something about so many good looking friends Yes, yes. I loved Jamie's remark as well...something like don't listen to her she can't speak English very well. Thought that was funny since her English, at that point, was more fluent than his Portuguese

Gotta say I really liked the whole "manuscript in the pond" scene. Thinking of Colin thrashing about with eels still makes me snicker (down here in Florida you'd get much worse than eels) and the remarks made by both were really good. Did anyone else think the woman who played Mia (secretary to AR's character) was "not terribly" attractive?

(Karen) There's no way Colin will be accused of being "HG-lite" in this film. I saw nothing remotely HGish about the character or the way he was played by Colin. True. CF has a gentle, sincere quality in some of his roles that is his own, not HG-ish at all, and the role of Jamie exploited it very effectively. Huge IMO didn't play the PM in his older, stereotypical way, i.e., no eyelash fluttering, stuttering, floppy haired, etc., that I noticed. I saw the eyelashes going a mile a minute in an early scene. It's possible that I gave up on him right then and didn't give him a chance, but to me he wasn't even remotely Prime Ministerial.

(Evelyn)Burning Question: How does LA compare with Gosford Park. Altman won't lose any sleep.;-) I'm actually not a fan of Gosford zzzzzzzzzz, but at least Altman meshes his characters and storylines seamlessly. There's lotsa seams in Love A. (Shoshana)The fat comments really got in the way of my enjoying the movie I didn't like it either. A cheap laugh. Like I said before, lazy filmmaking. Meanwhile, there's no joke about Keira Knightley who looks like she's about to die from consumption. I didn't care for her (she doesn't act, she poses) or her storyline, and it should have been cut, if not for the wedding scene which is a big set piece, and presumably uncutable because it probably cost a lot to stage.;-) I can't believe no one else commented on Neeson and the kid talking about finding another woman for LN 5 weeks after the mother's death. And I did not buy the kid being wrapped up in his puppy love at such a time of grief. Bye, mum, see ya, wouldn't wannna be ya! :-( Crass. Ditto on ET's line to him about not being able to find someone else to shag if he's crying. It's as though Curtis is unable to just go with the moment; he has to leaven it with stupidity. (Sonia)The message that love is all around was working fine without the 9/11 reference. Agreed. And I didn't care at all for the bookending shots of "real" people. What was the point. (Moon)everyone knows that a porno film is shot and that's it. No wasting time setting up the shots. Exactly. And why were they shown fauz-shagging fully clothed? *That* required practice?? LOL! Entire storyline should have been cut. I really liked Laura Linney in this. Her story was very poignant and well-acted. Rodrigo Santoro is hot! But I couldn't believe she bared her boobs for *this.* I'm not against nudity but it wasn't needed here. RC sold her a bill of goods.:-( The irony of LL's story was that--of all the characters--she had the best basis for a true love, there was a real foundation there and she liked this guy for 2 years (as opposed to the other characters who magically fall in love immediately). But she couldn't follow thorugh. I'd have used that Christmas gift scarf to strangle that brother.;-)

(Moon---moved from 184 for follow-up) The "official" hype for LA is making me sick. While various thoughts from LA percolated today, one that bubbled to the top was similarities between the hype around Bill Nighy's song and LA's hype: is life imitating art?

(Moon) but everyone knows that a porno film is shot and that's it. No wasting time setting up the shots. Exactly. (Mari) I can't believe no one else commented on Neeson and the kid talking about finding another woman for LN 5 weeks after the mother's death. Wot? You didn't think it was realistic? *snicker* But you've got to hand it to Liam, only Claudia Schieffer could take the place of his dead wife. He set the bar awfully high. ;-) (Mari) The irony of LL's story was that--of all the characters--she had the best basis for a true love...But she couldn't follow thorugh. I'd have used that Christmas gift scarf to strangle that brother.;-) Using the brother in that way turned me off to the story and it was unrealistic too that he could just call her constantly. Give me a break!!! Find him a better care facility and take away his mobile.

Going back to the KK storyline, at the wedding, didn't someone ask AL if he was still in love with the groom, his best friend?

)Karen)AL if he was still in love with the groom, his best friend? Yes, and it confused the hell out of me.

(Karen)AL if he was still in love with the groom, his best friend? (Linda)Yes, and it confused the hell out of me. I thought she (LL) saw his pining looks and, since he doesn't talk to the bride, assumed it was unrequited gay love. He answers LL in a way that I thought was meant to say "no, I'm not gay" (Karen)Have found the diagram. Liam Neesen's lines are only drawn to ET and the kid, who is connected to BN's character because they are "musicians" and to Joanna, his "love." Interesting. He and ET seemed to be too close to have such a slight connection. My assumption was that the connection was through the dead wife--I thought Joanna and ET had been close friends. ET (DO we have to call her that? I keep seeing this weird character on a bicycle) had one of the best parts--more of a range of emotions than the others had. And she did it brilliantly. It made sense for someone like her to be comforting LN--she's warm and supporting with her kids, she encourages LL at the Christmas party (practically grabs the drink out of LL's hand so that LL can go dance). She's a character who takes care of people. (Linda) Also liked when Jamie shows up with the Christmas presents then decides he has to leave "to do what a man has to do" and the kids who were just so excited to see him with all the gifts start saying, I hate Uncle Jamie. (Karen)But he left the presents for them, so there would be no reason to hate Uncle Jamie. Unrealistic IMO. I think the joke here is that the kid's love for Uncle Jamie is dependent on presents and attention--children can be rather shallow. Reminded me of Gwynnie's "I love John! I hate John!" scene in Emma. (Karen)I suppose Jamie would've brought his own car over to France, right? That would explain a car with a steering wheel on the right side, huh? I know. DH kept whispering "the car is wrong." It took me a minute to figure out what was "wrong" with it. Yes, too many fat jokes. And I thought the dunkin donuts comment was stupid. Even if there are DD's in Portugal and France (are there? I'm still waiting to find one in LONDON!), it's unlikely that the father would have used that as a reference point--more likely a favorite Portuguese pastry, but then we wouldn't "get" the joke. Does the version released in England have the donut line? (Evelyn)Does Robert Altman have to worry;-) (Mari) Altman meshes his characters and storylines seamlessly NO to Evelyn's question, and YES to Mari's comment. The storylines didn't have meaningful connections, probably because there were so many of them and there wasn't time to make connections. I would like to see each storyline patched together without interruptions, just to show how little one storyline touches the others. The splicing of the storylines reminded me of the way a soap opera is edited--the movie just jumps from one story to another with no connection. Of course, Curtis didn't have the convenience of everyone staying together in one big house... (Shoshana)Oh, and about the precarious connections between the various characters/storylines, maybe the kids at the Nativity Pageant should have been singing "It's a Small World After All." ;-) Euwwwwww! must go and take some insulin.

On the fat jokes, wasn't there even one omitted that showed up in some previews? I could swear that in an older version, Andrew Lincoln's placards delivered the message, "Merry Christmas, fatso" to KK. Since she's very clearly not one, I assume that must have been related to a deleted scene. Speaking of things that were deleted, when filming of LA started, wasn't there a bunch of stuff about some filming of African masks? I guess that got deleted too, unless I'm just not remembering it.

(Rika) wasn't there a bunch of stuff about some filming of African masks? Completely forgot about that: Here's what had been written: "but the very first shot of the movie actually went into the can last week. Curtis, Kenworthy and a cameraman flew out to Kenya July 24 to shoot the opening image-�a picture on a wall of a group of Africans, who come to life and start speaking Swahili to each other. What significance this has within the movie, nobody is divulging." Good question for someone to ask Curtis if they're attending a Q&A session.

What significance this has within the movie, nobody is divulging Looks like there was nothing to divulge;-) Guess they decided to replace the masks with all of those live pictures of real people.

(Karen)But you've got to hand it to Liam, only Claudia Schieffer could take the place of his dead wife. He set the bar awfully high. ;-) Ahh, but at that point, it's 9 whole weeks since the wife died, so mourning is over.;-) And, I always say if you're trying to get over a wife's death while her body is still warm, do it with a supermodel. :-( There's lots of male menopause fantasy stuff going on in this movie; too much for my taste.

(Mari) There's lots of male menopause fantasy stuff going on in this movie You summed it up nicely. Wasn't surprise to hear HG say on Oprah that from what he's witnessed so far more guys than women liked the movie.

(Mari) There's lots of male menopause fantasy stuff going on in this movie; too much for my taste. You've hit the nail on the head, and I was pretty shocked at a woman sitting next to me who really LOL to the PM's asst's cracks about Natalie's weight. (Linda) Guess they decided to replace the masks with all of those live pictures of real people. Given the US critics' response to the opening voiceover, methinks they should've gone with the African tribal stuff than the WTC tragedy.

Finally got to see LA...nice too with fellow Drooleurs. It was a silly fantasy,with lots of disjointed stories...some better than others. But I found it entertaining. Not on a short list for any awards, but not as bad as the NY Times review; hey, even "Kangaroo Jack" fared better . Loved Colin's segment . He really got into the Portuguese language barrier thingie.Very real and sweet. I suppose he could draw on his experiences with RL in-laws. I was not offended by the anti-American comments simply because I found them a pathetic, third-rate attempt at satire. Working Title should have hired Saturday Night Live writers for that segment. They do that stuff better. Richard Curtis isn't in their league.

(Linda) Guess they decided to replace the masks with all of those live pictures of real people. But the latter has more schmaltz. IMO the beginning ...and ending collage was stupid. Voice-over narrative, v. pedestrian.

(Rica)True. CF has a gentle, sincere quality in some of his roles that is his own, not HG-ish at all, and the role of Jamie exploited it very effectively. (Ev..can I call you this now?)Loved Colin's segment . He really got into the Portuguese language barrier thingie.Very real and sweet. I suppose he could draw on his experiences with RL in-laws. *Weighing in*...I agree with the cons to a degree but I gotta say that it was worth the price of admission to me and that I'll see it again and again but I told my sister *during* the movie that I couldn't wait for the DVD! The fat jokes were offensive but I found enough good stuff in this grab bag of stories to feel satisfied (Emms's piece especially)and entertained by the stuff that ODB wasn't in and totally beguiled by the stuff he was in. I loved his sweet little story and more to the point, him in it! Vintage Colin is right!! And AFG! What a delight to me. Can't wait to se him do it again.

I've already seen the @#$% movie three times...Don't you really wonder why Mia had to get down to her red bra and panties? Context???

Equal opportunity exploitation! If the other girls had to do it for all those men behind and around the camera, she did, too. Even poor Emma had to--while hubby sat on the bed fully clothed!!!! I think Jon Stewart has said the most telling thing about this film when CF was on. Not an exact quote but basically--I'm watching this movie about a historical-fiction writer writing his next great work and then all of a sudden I'm watching soft-core porn. What is up with that? Jon hit the nail on the head. I won't buy the DVD for that very reason and when I get my tape, I'll copy fuzz over those parts. Colin was great. His story was sweet. But, overall, the movie was a let down.

(Caribou) Equal opportunity exploitation! If the other girls had to do it for all those men behind and around the camera, she did, too. Ah good one! But not Martine. Must be because she's so "fat" and that might make the audience vomit. ;-)

That has bothered me too, though I must say that the sight of Rodrigo Santoro in his black briefs was somewhat of a compensation. ;-)

For a movie that people are calling female-oriented (because it's a romance), a great deal of the visual aspects and the jokes seem very oriented toward male interests.

This is mere silliness (you can't expect much more from me) but I thought I would mention it. Saw LA this weekend and I noticed a change that I thought should be made (yeah! That never happens!!). When I saw LA in Toronto we were told nothing would change except possibly the music (but were told it was a 'work in progress' and actually watched a digital copy of the film on the big screen. And Karen did say that they would could make changes up to the last minute). Anyway, the line that Jamie's girlfriend gives at the beginning bothered me. She said something like "come back here and let's do it again before my loser boyfriend comes home" (this was after the rumored "pencil dick" remark had been taken out I or never used). I thought it so odd that she would refer to Jamie as "loser boyfriend" to the brother (since we just found out they are related through the conversation that they were having about their mum's birthday) and I thought it should be either "brother" or "Jamie". Well! it's "Jamie" now and sounds much better! Also, I saw a version with Andrew L. holding a card that said "Fatso" after the "Merry Christmas" bit. Not in the released version, but Dorine noticed something else about that scene that none of us caught, so I will let her tell the tale!

you were able to see him walk away with the fatso sign on top of the stack as he leaves. I saw it in the previews and was kind of surprised that it wasn't in the film. I might go to see it again this weekend.

Hmmm, will have to look for it next time. Remember we were talking about Jamie "taking" Aurelia home and some saw ferries in the background? Given the geography, it's doubtful one could take a ferry from Marseilles to Portugal, unless it went all the way around Spain. ;-) And we know that they're still in France because the signs are in French. So it must be another ex-pat community in the south of France but this time Portuguese and not Nigerian. Pretty confusing for Americans who are pretty geography-challenged. ;-)

I didn't even notice the ferries. I really need to see it again. :)

Someone else had mentioned ferries, but there were boats in the background when he drops her off for the last time. Makes sense, Marseilles is a huge port...but is she going to walk to Portugal? LOL!

It's tea time somewhere in the South of France: Click here for some tea by the lake

Have to say, the more I see GWAPE (up to 3, so far), the more I love it. Have the bathroom breaks picked out now, too. ;-)

Way to go, Dorine!!! You hold the record!:-) Hope to go for the 3rd time Dec. 5th in Santa Fe. It will probably be like an almost first viewing because of time lapse. I'm really, really glad to hear you like it more and more. Keep dreading evidence of being delusional at Telluride. Whew!

#4 on Dec 10. :-)

#3 for me will be Dec. 2, at the Smithsonian. I'm looking forward to it - a curator from the National Gallery is going to talk briefly about Vermeer's work first. I was lucky to get tickets - they sold out by about noon the first day the general public could buy tickets.

I have only seen LA once, but, in FP, when Paul is driving, he is aware of a car behind him. (He looks at it every now and then). In LA while he is driving, there is a car driving behind him, again. I haven�t noticed if he glances to see where it is, but is it possible a car drives behind him to �clear the road�? At my next viewing I�ll be checking his face, not the headlights of other cars etc, but for a minute I thought I was at home watching FP ;-)

(BBC)Love Actually is not a very good film - it's lots of bits of good films with some duff films thrown in too. Can't argue with that.

Finally saw LA tonight! I thought it was cute. I think even my hubby could take it, so I'm taking him with me next time. I enjoyed most of the stories, found nothing offensive, absolutely loved Hugh's dance (I actually wished Colin were doing that), and Colin looked..., well, AFG. What else is new? :-) I had a good time. Looking forward to the second viewing.

On the Rotten Tomatoes site GWAPE has now gone up as an officially rated movie - starting with a 100% rating: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/click/movie-10002174/reviews.php?critic=columns&sortby=default&page=1&rid=1219199 It obviously won't stay that way, but it's a great way to start!

Oops, that last url was for just one review. Here's the more general GWAPE site: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/GirlwithaPearlEarring-10002174/reviews.php

(Katty)It obviously won't stay that way, but it's a great way to start.. Thanks Katty. Great news, great start no matter how time limited.

LA has 70% on Rotten Tomatoes.Not bad. Is that what a B- movie would be;-)

It's way too early to assess anything for GWAPE since the movie will not be released for quite sometime. Only one "major" reviewer from the Cream of the Crop grouping (Hollywood Reporter) has posted anything, and the rest are nobodies. BTW, reviews are not "spoilers" but "news" ;-) (Evelyn) LA has 70% on Rotten Tomatoes. Not bad. Only if you count the reviews from the great unwashed, i.e., internet people who consider themselves critics and have a website. ;-) The Cream of the Crop reviews (i.e., from real media outlets) have only given it a 58% rating thus far. Overall, it say the movie has 6.9/10. That's 69% and, in my day, you didn't get a B- for that (80%+). That's about C- or worse.

Maybe they're grading it on a curve?!?!?

Love Actually: I was going to say - from Bambi - "If you can't say anything nice..." But I do have a few redeeming bits and pieces I liked: Rowan Aktinson's scene. He made an artwork out of wrapping an Xmas gift. The cinnamon stick was a real topper. The saddest story? Laura Linney, whose scenes with her brother were heart-tugging. Liked Bill Nighy's agent's face. Thought the Nighy thread was pretty silly over all. Best acting? Emma Thompson hands down. Thought Alan Rickman was very affected here, and I like him, usually. Daniel Craig (in RL) has got himself some companion in sexy secretary Ms Makatsch The sweetest? Lima Neeson and his step-son; Colin proposing (loved the translation). Jamie in general. Cuckolded again! The silliest stories? The kid who went to Wisconsin, the whole Hugh Grant as a Prime Minister thing. Husband couldn't believe that Denise Richards, a fav of his, suddenly appeared at the end for one brief moment. And was Keira in love with the poor friend, or just being kind? I hope it was only our theater's copy, but the color was awful - changed from scene to scene. All in all - Thumbs down from the Murphy�s

(Murph) And was Keira in love with the poor friend, or just being kind? I had that "Oops -I -picked -the- wrong- guy"feeling about it too, Murph. Especially when she asked him "But you never said anything...." Which was dumb. How could he move in on his best friend.

(Murph)I was going to say - from Bambi - "If you can't say anything nice..." LOL! That applies to me so often! (Murph) And was Keira in love with the poor friend, or just being kind? (Evelyn)I had that "Oops -I -picked -the- wrong- guy"feeling about it too, Murph. Especially when she asked him "But you never said anything...." Which was dumb. How could he move in on his best friend. Better to move before the wedding than after. Like Lancelot and Guinivere in Camelot--there is no going back after love is spoken. Her husband will be doing a "Jamie" by next Christmas?;-)

(Caribou) Her husband will be doing a "Jamie" by next Christmas?;-) ROTF. Don't give Richard Curtis any ideas.

(Murph)I was going to say - from Bambi - "If you can't say anything nice..." LOL...in my house, that is known as the "Thumper Rule" (really!). I apply it often! ;-) DH had his first viewing of LA last night. His three favorite bits (in order). (1) Anything to do with Billy Mack. Really laughed at his parts. Liked the bit when he was on television bashing Blue and using his pen that writes on glass ("Kids, listen to your Uncle Bill. Don't buy drugs. Become a rock star and they give them to you for free!"). (2) ODB's stint as Jamie! He liked it. Unbelievable! He did comment "I just don't get it" in regards to my 'feelings' for ODB, but the DH did say he thought his bit was pretty funny (liked the pond scene...don't know if it was for the content, or that he got to see LM dive into the water). And now sadly....(3) He liked the Condom Colin bit. DH was born and raised in Wisconsin, so that is my only guess as to why he found this so amusing. I'm all astonishment (but he did very well with LA considering nothing blows up! Off to see Master and Commander tonight, so he is happy).

(Murph) And was Keira in love with the poor friend, or just being kind? (Evelyn)I had that "Oops -I -picked -the- wrong- guy"feeling about it too, Murph. I thought so too, especially when she kissed him on the mouth after his showed his placards at the door.

(Bonnie)I thought so too, especially when she kissed him on the mouth after his showed his placards at the door. I got the "I'm sending mixed messages" feeling.

(Murph) And was Keira in love with the poor friend, or just being kind? Kind. What else is she going to do? She married Peter and is, presumably, in love with him. Just because Mark (his best friend) is in love with her, doesn't mean her feelings would change to anything more than pity or feeling sorry for him. She understood what he'd been through and was being kind. He's also told her (via the cards) that he's not about to act on his feelings; they're his to bear.

(Murph) And was Keira in love with the poor friend, or just being kind? I would say just being kind. I thought in some ways the placard scene was just to clear the air between her and Mark. She had seen his wedding video earlier and was aware of how much he felt. IMO he came by to put her mind to rest & let her know he was not going to get in the way of her marriage. By doing it with the placards and the music there was a bit of bittersweet humor.

Murph) And was Keira in love with the poor friend, or just being kind? I agree with Karen and Gail. She was being kind. All this time she thought he couldn't stand her then she realizes he feels the opposite. Did anyone else feel the wedding video was a bit creepy? Maybe I need to stop watching Law & Order ;-)

It would appear creepy for anybody else to watch, but it wasn't intended for anyone else but him. So that has to be kept in mind. It wasn't like a stalker videotaping someone without their knowledge. She knew she was being taped, but didn't understand the context.

(Tress)DH had his first viewing of LA last night... I'm all astonishment (but he did very well with LA considering nothing blows up! I talked to my DBF this evening, and while I had a cold this weekend, he went to see LA of his own volition. (I may have suggested or talked about it once or twice as something he might deign to go watch with me.) He "really liked" it, despite it being "fluff." His comments were that, overall, it was well acted and enjoyable (he seemed rather surprised). He enjoyed the Jamie storyline, and thought CF spoke his Portuguese very well. I have to assume that was DBFs attempt to assuage my silliness. ;-) He thought that the WTC reference in the opening monologue was poignant. He was impressed by the depth ET brought to her role, but thought AR could have put a bit more into his portrayal. He thought MM was incredibly hot and a lovely size with her tree trunk thighs, but that KK was frighteningly skinny and that Mia was just scary (but in a sexy way that would make a man obey... I'm not sure what to think about that comment of his). He did think the nudity/level of undress was gratuitous, but enjoy ble. He liked the Condom Colin story line and found it very amusing, but didn't care much for the stand-ins (he found their positions unlikely). He would have preferred more Rowan Atkinson. He decided that he thought Sam looked like a young Kenneth Branagh who hadn't quite grown into his head yet. He also had his own explanation for the LL storyline (that Sarah's brother might actually have been her husband who she institutionalized but still loves). Sorry that I rambled on, but it found his take on the movie entertaining. ;-)

I think your BF's analytical approach: Mia was just scary (but in a sexy way that would make a man obey... He did think the nudity/level of undress was gratuitous, but enjoyable... but didn't care much for the stand-ins (he found their positions unlikely). was very interesting and funny.

LOL! Thanks Karen. But he is very excited to see GWAPE, which I consider a point in his favor. ;-)

Last night I took the DH to see LA. What a hoot! When CF � Colin Frissel � stands at the airport and shouts his name, the DH looked at me and said, Ooh, a new CF to Drool over. I almost smacked him! He did however redeem himself, by asking when the DVD will be available for sale ;-) The theatre was full, and heard lots of good comments as we were leaving - the little Spiderman in the Nativity play got lots of laughs. CF (Jamie) is a good story line here, as in a country with 11 official languages, everyone could relate to being misunderstood. Lots of laughs during their scenes.

Why do you think Richard Curtis named that horny character Colin Frissel. He doesn't seem at all like ODB, but the name is so similar. Couldn't just be a coincidence, couldn it...

I would think closer to that other CF.

Ah, so glad you thought of that, Dorine. Same number of letters and similiar arrangement as Farrell. I can stop being paranoid now. However.......doesn't that one scene in the bar remind anyone of the View?

(CF from Interview) I had to take a breath after the scene where I pierce Griet'� ear and walk away from her. Without needing to go into the symbolism of what the piercing means, it�s clear he�s finally got what he wants. She�s made a sacrifice, he�s drawn blood, she�s become the painting he wants�-and she�s gone through God knows how many barriers to achieve that for him�-and he�s given her nothing. Maybe she should be sleeping in the Crucifixation Room.

Yes, Frissel is awfully close to Farrell, so that must be the the real "coincidence." (Although I must admit that the Irish Colin F does have a certain appeal on an entirely different level from ODB. I can understand why he's so popular, though not so much to me. To each his or her own.)

Does anyone else feel that the following two lines in LA were �out of place�? Forced? The audiences I have watched the film with, all laughed at the lines, and so did I, (the first time), but after that, I dunno, just didn�t seem right. ;-( 1. Where the f*** is my f****** coat? 2. I�m very busy and very important!

( Karen ) and she�s gone through God knows how many barriers to achieve that for him�-and he�s given her nothing. Maybe she should be sleeping in the Crucifixation Room. PRECISELY!

( LeahP ) 2. I�m very busy and very important! Bridget says that line in answering an email to DC in BJD the movie. I can't remember if that was in the novel

(Bonnie)Bridget says that line in answering an email to DC in BJD the movie I don't know if I found them forced, but they will only ring bells with BJD fans. Both came out of BJD. Where the f--k is the f---ing tuna.

(linda) Where the f--k is the f---ing tuna. How did I miss that?

I attended a screening of GWAPE at the Woodruff Arts Center in Atlanta on Friday, Dec. 5. I found the film completely mesmerizing throughout. It is very easy to get drawn into Vermeer's world. CF looked different in the film from what I expected after seeing the still photos. I saw no resemblance to Fabio in the smouldering looks;-) And although he does smoulder a lot there is no resemblance to Darcy, either. He looks gorgeous in the period clothes. His hands are v. noticeable throughout the film. Even when he is not on screen you are v. aware of his presence. The close-ups where his face covers the entire screen are absolutely breathtaking, or at least they were for me. The audience was extremely quiet throughout but applauded enthusiastically at the end. The audience was a mixture of all ages and seemed to be pretty equally balanced as far as gender is concerned. I heard lots of raves as we were exiting the theater. I think this one will get excellent word of mouth promotion. If it gets some Oscar nominations maybe it will get a wider release at a later date. If not I'll probably have to drive to Atlanta again to see it in January. It was great fun meeting Shoshana and Darla!

(Lisa) If it gets some Oscar nominations maybe it will get a wider release at a later date. If not I'll probably have to drive to Atlanta again to see it in January. The nominations aren't announced until Jan 27. You don't think it would open closer to you when it goes wider on Jan 14 (or whenever it is)? Glad to hear you liked it and got to meet fellow Droolers.

(Lisa Hen)It was great fun meeting Shoshana and Darla! (Dorine)Glad to hear you liked it and got to meet fellow Droolers. Meeting fellow Droolers is great! Everyone should try it!

A question for anyone who has seen this week's installment of Talking Movies. I could be wrong since I haven't seen GWAPE in over a month, but the clip they showed of Griet washing the window and Vermeer asking her to stay just as she was...Vermeer, in the film, I thought just continues to watch her and then leaves the room. This morning while watching that same clip I thought I saw another little piece in there. He seems very excited by the image of her and gives a huge smile. I don't remember that.

I'll check on the smile tonight, but he doesn't leave. He has her pose, dripping rag in hand (which then drops) and is inspired to do another of his paintings. Wasn't it Maria Thins who comments that he's so quickly back at work, which isn't the norm. Will check for smile, but I think he might as he's inspired.

(Karen)I'll check on the smile tonight, but he doesn't leave.. Soooo, did you see it? And.........??

Uh oh. The Boss is uncharacteristically silent. Sort of like the movie?;-)

Not enough time.

There is no huge smile in that scene, Linda. He looks pleased a bit, obviously because he has the idea for his next painting, but no huge grin. OK, just a little bit. Colin's role is definitely NOT a supporting actor's, despite the fact that he has so few lines. His presence is way too integral, even when he's now shown. I'd have to attribute that to Colin's performance, that it transcends having to be physically present to make an impact. He's so good in quiet mode. I do like the scene where Catharina is playing solitaire and Maria Thins is watching her son-in-law, watching Griet. I also liked most of the supporting players, especially Essie Davis as Catherina. You could practically hear her purring when Vermeer had his hands on her and, oh, did she like it. So, when he isn't interested in caressing her neck (scene above), that has to nail for Griet. She's being deprived. I wasn't too crazy about Tom Wilkinson though. A bit caricaturish for my tastes. The film looks lovely and the music is beautifully integrated. They didn't overdo the "picture in picture" thing. Not every shot looked like a painting, but when it did, it was amazing to look at. I especially liked the ones toward the end, when Griet is leaving and you see Tanneke cleaning in that backroom and then later Griet at her new home and the ducks are around. Oh, yes, when Griet stands in front of the View of Delft painting in Van R's house. Whoa! It's like seeing my title image at the website. ;-) Possibly though a little too much has been left out, which would develop the relationships and characters. Behind me, one woman was answering questions for her friends about the ending (when it took place, why Griet got the earrings) based on the book. I went into this viewing with a certain mission. Did that one critic have a valid complaint about Vermeer asking Griet to mix his paints based on what they showed. Initially, I thought they hadn't established enough about her artistic sense and how Vermeer would know about it (not having him witness her chopping the vegetables at the beginning). Yeah, she thought the camera obscura was a neato, keeno thing. Wow! But was that enough? On my second viewing, I think enough was provided to justify him doing so. OK, have other things to do and will comment more later.

(Karen) OK, just a little bit. Colin's role is definitely NOT a supporting actor's, despite the fact that he has so few lines. His presence is way too integral, even when he's now shown. Wholeheartedly agree. He is what drives this film...once Griet enters the house, it seems that everything that goes on somehow connected to Vermeer. Even when Colin is not on the screen, his presence is 'felt'. He is definitely the 'master'. ;-) Thanks Karen! Keep it coming.....love to hear what you have to say!

But it isn't enough to warrant any kind of Best Actor nom IMO.

(Karen) But it isn't enough to warrant any kind of Best Actor nom IMO. That is the odd thing about this film (for me). His role is more than a 'supporting' one (all IMO of course...and my reasoning being that everything in the house appears to revolve around Vermeer whether he is in the scene or not. He is such a 'presence' and it drives the film), but it isn't a leading one either...(if that makes any sense, it's a miracle). But I think that Scarlett will be getting all the attention, so we don't have to worry about it one way or another (even though I would love to see him get something for this part...I think he did an amazing job).

He is the lead (or a co-lead), but the part isn't on par with the type of roles that do get Best Actor noms. Tom Wilkinson's was truly of the supporting type. Colin's was a lead role.

(Karen)There is no huge smile in that scene, Linda. He looks pleased a bit, obviously because he has the idea for his next painting, but no huge grin. Thanks, Karen. But I went back to look at the clip in Talking Movies, again. I was wrong about the scene. I didn't mean a big smile when she is at the window--just after that. I thought in the film after he's finished watching her he leaves the room, quietly. In the clip he seems to come forward and speak to her after he says, "Stay as you are". (Karen)On my second viewing, I think enough was provided to justify him doing so. What astounds me about GWAPE is that for such a quiet film so much goes on in each scene. I found that on my second viewing, I had missed so much in the first.

Saw GWAPE last night w/ Risa . . .so some random initial thoughts . .will see film again, of course and take some more notes ! Thought the film was a nice adaptation of the book . .and stood on its own well. Was hoping for the initial mtg btwn Vermeer & Griet in the kitchen when I saw the opening shots of her cutting vegtables for the stew . .but thought for means of moving the story along it was best cut out . . . One of my many favorite shots . . .was during the beginning credits as Griet makes her way to the Vermeer house. . as it tracked along, then moved to the overhead aerial shot of her stopping on the star in the town square . . .kind of brought the book/film together for me there . . . Ear piercing scene: ODB & SJ in that scene both took my breath away. I liked the fact that Vermeer did the piercing and that Griet asked him to do it.(as opposed to the book's version) I know I mentioned this before . .but now that I saw the scene . . the allusion/paralleling of the ear piercing to a young woman's first sexual encounter was a wonderful choice. In Scarlett, I thought she embodied the fear, the dread of the act to come, yet at the same time, the wanting & yearning for it . . . the anticipation of the pain .the brief sadness of when it is all over. In Colin . .I saw him as the tender lover . .not wanting to hurt her, yet knowing he had to.(esp when he held her ear, gently wiped the blood away) And when he noticed her crying, that was wonderful . .how he barely grazed her face with his fingers to wipe away that tear and touch her lips . .ahh, took my breath away . . .Brava Colin and Scarlett! Comb Searching scene: this was also one of my favorite ones. Griet's plea to Vermeer for help . . . then the cut to his frantically searching the house for the missing comb. There was something about the desperation in Colin's eyes during it . .knowing that he could lose this girl, this artistic inspiration/equal. . .I don't know . .struck a chord there . . Liked the use of light/shadow in the film . .that scene where Pieter andGriet are walking by the river in the bright, bright sun . . .just beautiful. Casting was well done. . I certainly wanted to slap Cornelia quite a few times . .Am still making my mind up on whether or not I liked ED as Catherina . .there were moments that were particularly wonderful .like when she was playing the pianoforte and Vermeer had his hands on her . .she certainly was purring, Karen . . . hmm maybe the fact that in part of my gut I don't like her . .is just a testament to how well she played an unlikeable character . .Something about her in the final confrontation scene in the studio rubbed me wrong and I can't place a finger on it . .will have to look at the film again . . .TW as Van Ruijven was as written: a lecherous, rich old man, who thinks he can get whatever he wants, nothing more or less. (He reminded me of a alley cat in heat stalking his prey when he was going through the hanging laundry for Griet) JP was as I thought Maria Thins should be . . . Can't wait for my second viewing of the film so I can study it some more . .

(Linda) But I went back to look at the clip in Talking Movies, again. I was wrong about the scene. I didn't mean a big smile when she is at the window--just after that. I thought in the film after he's finished watching her he leaves the room, quietly. In the clip he seems to come forward and speak to her after he says, "Stay as you are". He does stay in the room, poses her, etc., and then leaves. At no time does he smile broadly while in the studio. Are you talking about a scene after that? If so, I'll check. (Kimberly) Was hoping for the initial mtg btwn Vermeer & Griet in the kitchen when I saw the opening shots of her cutting vegtables for the stew...but thought for means of moving the story along it was best cut out I was talking to the lady next to me about this scene since they did keep it in the movie. Watching her arrange the vegetables on the platter was Vermeer's first indication that this girl had an eye for composition, something that would help you believe he'd found his soul-mate, one who he would allow to mix his paints, to explain about art and the technical end. But I'd say they changed it so that Vermeer wouldn't appear right away. Keep him away to increase the suspense about this individual. Just like when Griet is being shown the studio and is in the hallway. He's in the studio painting, but we and Griet are not allowed to see him. You hear his voice too (talking or arguing with Catharina) but aren't allowed to see him. This builds an audience's anticipation.

(Karen) This builds an audience's anticipation. I actually like that it was done this way...you can feel Griet's anxiety/anticipation. And we get to hear his cinnamon filled mouth off screen before we get to see him. And doesn't he also just walk right past her the first time they encounter each other (sorry, it's been three months since my viewing)? It was as if she expected 'more' and she got the brush off. It wasn't until a bit later that things started to click between them.

(Karen)But I'd say they changed it so that Vermeer wouldn't appear right away. Keep him away to increase the suspense about this individual. Durr . .That's true . . should have been obvious to me. I guess I didn't think about including that with the other suspense building scenes you mentioned. . (Tress)And we get to hear his cinnamon filled mouth off screen before we get to see him. Mmmmmm . . . Tress, wonderful description . . .as to their first encounter I believe it may have been as you described it . .dang, what I wouldn't do for a screener and a rewind button right now.

Question to you girls: re the ending . . . How long after Griet left the Vermeer household do you think he sent the earrings over to her? (b/c of course in the book it was years after and he was dead at the time she recieved them)A few months . .right away?

Unfortunately, that was left too vague in the movie. Most people wouldn't have understood that he had died and left them to her. Not a good call on their part.

Hmmm, perhaps, instead of all those chickens or ducks at her feet, there should be babies? Subtle but more effective for showing the passage of time.

(Kimberly) How long after Griet left the Vermeer household do you think he sent the earrings over to her? (b/c of course in the book it was years after and he was dead at the time she recieved them)A few months . .right away? (Karen) Unfortunately, that was left too vague in the movie. Most people wouldn't have understood that he had died and left them to her. Not a good call on their part. I didn't like it either much, as I'm sure PW guessed by my trying-to-be-subtle question, but he was quite adamant about wanting it left so ambiguous. I suspect it was clearer in the original script (and what I wouldn't give for a copy of that ;-)), since he said it was different in the script before he changed it. On the other hand, a viewer is free to make his/her own interpretation of it, which is apparently what he wanted.....for whatever reason. To stimulate discussion?

(Karen)Unfortunately, that was left too vague in the movie. Most people wouldn't have understood that he had died and left them to her. Not a good call on their part. Yes .I was wondering if they were trying to stick to same ending as the book (ie the post-Vermeer death/pearls willed to Griet), and just failed at it or if they were trying to make it seem that Vermeer sent them himself, perhaps as a sign that he still thought of her and missed her. (Karen)Hmmm, perhaps, instead of all those chickens or ducks at her feet, there should be babies? Subtle but more effective for showing the passage of time. Something like that would have been nice, b/c they didn't choose to age Griet anyway physically . . . I forget, in the film was it clear that she was living with Pieter and started a life with him? . I mean that hallway she was sitting in when Tanneke came could have been her parent's home . . . I need to see it again . .I also wanted to take a better look at Tanneke, at her experession when Griet left the house . .and the time she came to deliver the pearls . . . I couldn't get a clear reading . was she smug,angry, did she pity Griet . . .or show indifference to the whole situation?

Oops, forgot to add above . .re: the ending . .the romantic in me likes to think of the ending as Vermeer is still alive and sent the earrings to Griet as a keepsake . . .

(Dorine)I suspect it was clearer in the original script (and what I wouldn't give for a copy of that ;-)) I'm sure you already know about these sites, but in case you didn't . . . I usually look here for various screenplays. No GWAPE yet . .but just give it a bit of time, I'm sure it will come up. The first site listed was recommended to me highly from the Drama Book Shop here in NYC. http://www.scriptcity.com/ http://www.scriptfly.com/screenplays/ http://sfy.iv.ru/ http://www.script-o-rama.com/

(Kimberly) the romantic in me likes to think of the ending as Vermeer is still alive and sent the earrings to Griet as a keepsake Since Griet only *mattered* to him while he was painting her and he didn't stand up to Catharina once it was done, do you really think he would send Catharina's earrings while he was still alive? *cluck cluck cluck*

(Karen)Since Griet only *mattered* to him while he was painting her and he didn't stand up to Catharina once it was done, do you really think he would send Catharina's earrings while he was still alive? *cluck cluck cluck* bwaaahahaha . .suddenly having images of ODB doing the chicken dance wearing the Vermeer wig . .

(karen) Since Griet only *mattered* to him while he was painting her I haven't seen the film, but that's what I got from the book: Location Romance.

(karen) Since Griet only *mattered* to him while he was painting her I felt that way too, until the ending of the book. I get the feeling that he did pine away for her to some extent, because it's mentioned that he asked to see the painting while on his death bed, and because he leaves her the earrings. Of course it could have been guilt, too. I do think the ending was too vague for anyone not having read the book.

I'm sure there was regret (and some feelings toward her) and certainly guilt but no way would he cause more problems with wifey, daughter of the woman who is keeping a roof over his head.

Saw GWAPE today and loved it. I would see this film even if ODB wasn't in it. A v. sensual film without being overtly sexual. The music was perfectly nuanced to the emotions. This is *her* film ab-so-lutely; she is in practically every frame. I was not impressed with her performance in Lost in Translation, but in this one, she left me with my mouth open;-). She gives such a natural performance.Whoa! ( Kate Hudson, uh, uh.) I was prepared for Colin's small role, so I was not disappointed. I applaud him for not hogging the scenes. He lets them flow. Not any eye-candy in this one, IMO. In fact I put it on a par with The Widowing of Mrs Holroyd. The ending was a disappointment. I do think the ending was too vague for anyone not having read the book. Colin and PW called it "ambiguous", I call it bizarre. Don't think it has any tie -in with the book at'all. It almost looks as if he sends Tanneke with a "payola". Or maybe, Catarina does;-) How did the focus groups let this one slip by. My thanks again to Caribou's reports which enhanced this film for me.

PS I found several Darcy moments in GWAPE. Anyone else?

Glad to see you loved it Evelyn. :-D I have several times tried to imagine KH doing it and couldn't. Was easier to imagine RF in it, though. (Evelyn) Not any eye-candy in this one, IMO Ooo, there was for me. Different than in some other films, but some nonetheless. I think those moments had more to do with his expressions in a certain scene rather than strictly just to look at him...like in the camera obscura scene and standing at the window looking at the colors in the clouds. Those little smiles he gives when she gets what he's talking about....*sigh*. And I was mesmorized by him when he storms through the house looking for the comb. That attitude of power and control is extremely appealing. I am dying to see him in a role that he can demonstrate that kind of power and confidence, good or bad guy, preferably in a more modern setting. I guess this isn't strictly eye candy, but enhanced by the mood. The wig didn't bother me either. I do think the ending was too vague for anyone not having read the book. I thought this about the beginning too, to a lesser extent. The person I was talking to the last time I went to see it, said he thought the two main characters and their relationship were great, but the supporting characters, esp Maria Thins, Catharina, and Van R were too two dimensional. His wife read the book and loved it, but was unable to get her opinion after as she rushed out during the credits. I thought Van R was appropriately smarmy without being a caricature, though Catharina and Maria Thins could have toppled in that direction a little easier to me. Sometimes I thought C seemed like a drugged out mental patient. Another person I spoke with had seen the workprint without music and was amazed at the difference and how much the music enhanced it. Said Scarlett hadn't been happy with the ending at that time. Tried to get more specifics if it pertained to the actual story ending or something else, but couldn't get that clarified completely.

So glad you got to see GWAPE Karen and Evelyn. I feel this inexplicable sense of contentment as DD's are added one by one to the list of those who have seen it. It's like my joy with the movie becomes more and more complete. (Karen)Colin's role is definitely NOT a supporting actor's, despite the fact that he has so few lines. His presence is way too integral, even when he's now shown. I was SO relieved! I was so anxious in Sept. when I didn't think it was but did have to concede it was SJ's film. Reminds me of the Darcys. (Karen)when Griet stands in front of the View of Delft painting in Van R's house. Whoa! It's like seeing my title image at the website. ;-) When you're good, you're good! And, you had the long-haired Advocate up before we even got a peek at Vermeer. Good job! (Evelyn)This is *her* film ab-so-lutely; she is in practically every frame. I do wish they would have run the script by Andrew Davies because he could have upped the Vermeer factor and put him on the screen every five minutes or so. Improve it's FF-o-meter rating---how much film you FF through to get to the good parts. I give this one a 66% because you can safely FF through the first 33%.:-) (Evelyn)Not any eye-candy in this one, IMO. In fact I put it on a par with The Widowing of Mrs Holroyd. Even after seeing the still on Craig Kilborn? Almost had me believing the wig wasn't so scraggley. And..and, he was golden and that light hitting just the left side of his face like a Vermeer painting and that contented look on his face and those deep brown eyes. (Evelyn)My thanks again to Caribou's reports which enhanced this film for me. Thanks, Evelyn. I'm so glad.:-) It is just so nice to have a great film to round out the otherwise dubious year.

(Linda) I do think the ending was too vague for anyone not having read the book. (Dorine) I thought this about the beginning too, to a lesser extent. That's what I thought as well. I regret the missing of the Griet-Vermeer-veggie talk scene, and not knowing what the heck was going on at the end. It was left way too vague, and could only imagine those who didn't read the book scratching their heads... Thank you for your opinions everyone! I'm glad so many of you had the chance to see GWAPE already, and since it's been ages since I've seen it I appreciate the reminder of the little details that I either forgot or missed. It's also nice to know that most of us had similar "problems" with it. (Evelyn) Not any eye-candy in this one, IMO. He was for me, although it surprised me. I've never been a fan of guys with long hair, but Colin looked fabulous to me. Nice to look at anyway, because I can't really imagine running my fingers through that hair. I'm too heterosexual maybe? ;-) It would feel like caressing a girl... Watched the mymovies trailer several times, and can't get enough of the closeup of Colin after he says "Lick your lips." Not because he looks so yummy (okay, that is a reason as well), but because to me that look says it all: That's it, that's what I want. The expression looks nothing short of smug to me. He got what he wanted and that's not the girl. It's the perfect pose for his painting. This man can express anything with his eyes. Mind you, we might read it a bit differently, but his eyes certainly talk to us.

Evelyn - I'm glad you liked GWAPE. (Evelyn)I would see this film even if ODB wasn't in it. I agree. My DH says I'm full of crap. But this was just such a beautiful film to watch - Colin is just an added plus, I say;) (Evelyn) She (SJ) gives such a natural performance.Whoa! I say that ear piercing scene is one of the best - That single tear that falls down her cheek . .it's hard to explain . . . just beautiful and heartbreaking. (Evelyn)I do think the ending was too vague for anyone not having read the book.It almost looks as if he sends Tanneke with a "payola". Intersting, never thought of that . .was trying to read Tanneke at the end of the film . . .perhaps Maria Thins sent the earrings? . . since she was the business end of Vermeer's carrer (arranging/negotiating pictures to be painted?) (Dorine)And I was mesmorized by him when he storms through the house looking for the comb. That attitude of power and control is extremely appealing. I am dying to see him in a role that he can demonstrate that kind of power and confidence, good or bad guy, preferably in a more modern setting. I guess this isn't strictly eye candy, but enhanced by the mood. The wig didn't bother me either. I agree with you with the comb scene . . a forceful scene . .his passionate search . .makes you wish he'd drop everything and tuen a house upside down just for you;). I hope the roles that Hola Lola mentioned are those that will allow him to showcase more this side of him ( and in a modern setting!). P.S. the wig did not seem all that bad to me . .again, had minor flashbacks of The Advocate/HOTP but it did not ruin anything for me;) (Ildiko)This man can express anything with his eyes. Mind you, we might read it a bit differently, but his eyes certainly talk to us. I think one of his greatest assets for his film career is his expressive eyes. The camera misses nothing, and to be able as he does, to express a volume of emotions in a single look, done in simplicity is astounding. I admire this ability and wish more film actors had this talent (as opposed to trying to overcompensate by mugging or overacting ). .keep it simple, keep it real and you can get your idea across without trying to hard.

(Ildiko)This man can express anything with his eyes. Mind you, we might read it a bit differently, but his eyes certainly talk to us. They do, and from what I've read and heard so far lots of others are taking notice, too. I found several Darcy moments in GWAPE. Anyone else? I remember the second time I saw GWAPE (BAFTA Q&A) that I had a Darcy moment, but I can't remember what it was. Of course knowing ODB was out in the lobby and coming into the theater at any moment had me quite distracted. I can't wait to see this again. I was distracted both times (pleasurably)and I know I missed so much. Eye candy-several for me. (But not my favorite CF eye candy) The ear piercing scene-my number one. The shot of his think legs going up to the attic. The hands grinding the paints. The smug look from "Lick your lips" Evelyn and Karen so glad you got to see it.

I just got to see GWAPE and it was such a beautiful film! I feel that I need to see it again though because there is so much to take in visually I think you end up missing things. Of course I am always distracted when ODB is in a movie. I love to watch him brood. Loved Tom Wilkinson too!

Had an opportunity to see GWAPE last week with fellow drooler, Kathy F. We had a great time at the Houston Museum of Fine Arts benefit premiere last Thursday evening. The theater in the museum held close to 200 people, and there was standing room only at screening time. Folks were even sitting on the steps in the aisles. I swear no one coughed, whispered, or seemed to breathe during the film...or maybe that was just me, mesmerized and "in the Colin zone." Loved this film. And as for Colin, wonderful acting and wonderful larger-than-life close-ups...now that's a face that can fill a screen!! Come bellissimo!! Perhaps most surprised at the lovely music, and how fitting it was. Somewhat disappointed that the ending was not more faithful to the book. So, now I'm counting down to the general release....can't wait to see this one again.

I finally had time to go and see LA, and just wanted to say how much I liked it. ODB really got people to laugh, that was great. And he looked so cuddly.

From Am Cinematographer: Serra's approach to lighting Vermeer undergoes a similar evolution. The artist is first shown in shadow, but then Griet spots him watching her from the darkness of his studio and gradually brings him into the light. "Originally, we were supposed to see Vermeer fully earlier in the film," reveals Serra. "But the decision to keep him in shadow and reveal him so slowly--we only see him clearly at that dinner party--was not only a photographic decision, but also a directorial and editorial decision. I didn't use a very complicated lighting scheme for Vermeer; it flowed from the story and the situation. He's always sidelit in the studio, with his profile to the light, so he's much more contrasty than Griet. Letting the light drop off from the windows in that big room made the rest of the house feel heavy with deep shadows. So, it could be they did shoot that initial scene from the book, where Mr and Mrs Vermeer come to Griet's house to check her out, he sees her arranging the veggies, etc.

Thanks Karen! I never minded the 'missing' veggie scene. I think there is more suspense built up (I'm practically screaming at the screen..."where is he!!! Let me see him!!" by the time he does make an appearance). Like how Serra talks about the studio v. the rest of the house in that last line.....interesting. It worked!

(Tress) I never minded the 'missing' veggie scene. Wasn't she chopping away in the first scene...not like the book, but one gets the idea of her artistic flair. Welcome back:-)

(Evelyn) Wasn't she chopping away in the first scene...not like the book, but one gets the idea of her artistic flair. Exactly! It is just not as obvious because you don't have Vermeer there pointing it out....you see her 'eye', it's subtle, but Webber lets you see it other ways later in the film. I like the 'wait' for Johannes to show. And I like that the first time we see him he isn't with Catarina and he's in a mood....then the second scene we see him in, he is at the birth of his child and he's smiling and happy (and Griet still hasn't really spoken to him, whereas in the book, they have that conversation right away (where he speaks as if he has cinnamon in his mouth)...in the film, we get grunts and dimples first).

(Tress) ...in the film, we get grunts and dimples first Actually, you hear him first. Aren't they arguing off-camera? Maybe they should've have the bed creak too. Something else Griet could've listened to. ;-)

Saw GWAPE for the 2nd time yesterday . . . (PS: leslie - have no fear, it was a spur of the moment thing b/c I had 3 hours of a break between blocking and dress rehearsal/taping for OLTL yesterday . .and it was playing just down the street. Will still see GWAPE with you again in Pleasantville at any time.) Gets better and better each time I see it . . . Still was strying to read Tanneke at the end . .I think she felt a bit sorry for Griet . .that edit at the end didn't give me a chance to really get a good look at her face when she presented the pearls . . . Slight observation: Did any one catch it, or just me . . . When Griet unwraps the pearls at the ned . .not only is it wrapped in canvas and sealed with wax . .but also the pearls are wrapped in two bits of the pale blue and yellow cloth from her turban she wore during the sitting . . . Nice touch (even though I still did not like the fact that the ending was a bit vague, as mentioned in posts before)

(Kimberly) . .but also the pearls are wrapped in two bits of the pale blue and yellow cloth from her turban she wore during the sitting . . . Oh! I did notice that (the first time)...the second time, I had too many martinis prior and was just in low gear and drooling!

(Kim) also the pearls are wrapped in two bits of the pale blue and yellow cloth from her turban she wore during the sitting . I thought it was a nice touch too...but an august member of this board disagreed with me;-) I've only seen it once...and what do I know.

Kim) also the pearls are wrapped in two bits of the pale blue and yellow cloth from her turban she wore during the sitting . (Evelyn) I thought it was a nice touch too...but an august member of this board disagreed with me;-) Really! Now who could that be? :-O I noticed it the second time (up to 5, I think) and I liked it ok, though an oddly obvious touch within the extremely ambiguous ending. (Tress) the second time, I had too many martinis prior and was just in low gear and drooling! LOL, and you didn't even finish the last one. I think I may have...."missed" a few seconds here and there that time. ;-)

(Evelyn) but an august member of this board disagreed with me;-) Sheesh!! So I wasn't paying attention to cloth. Big deal! Shall I tell them how many times I have to ....? I'll leave that blank for now but consider the threat like a sword of Damocles. ;-)

(Tress) the second time, I had too many martinis prior and was just in low gear and drooling! The first time I had too much Chardonney and missed it. The second time I was stone-cold sober and missed it, but at that point I was waiting for ODB to enter the theater for the Q&A so I think I was a bit preoccupied. (Kimberly)Still was strying to read Tanneke at the end I think Tanneke was portrayed much gentler in the film than the book.

Lindak...The second time I was stone-cold sober and missed it, but at that point I was waiting for ODB to enter the theater for the Q&A so I think I was a bit preoccupied. I'm surprised you digested any of the film knowing that ODB himself was in the wings waiting to come out. (Still beating myself up for not being clued into that event...very,very jealous) (Kim) also the pearls are wrapped in two bits of the pale blue and yellow cloth.. Yes, I picked up on this. As much as it was a nice touch I do think it was a let down. Much preferred the book's ending. Agree with Dorine that it was left far too ambiguous.

(Leslie) I'm surprised you digested any of the film knowing that ODB himself was in the wings waiting to come out. (Still beating myself up for not being clued into that event...very,very jealous) That is a bummer, but now that you're here, you'll be up to date on Colin happenings. :-) BTW, the Q&A Linda was actually refering to was the one for BAFTA in the city, not the Burns Ctr one.

Just got back from seeing GWAPE this afternoon. Have to say I was a little concerned that after having read so much about the movie and looked at so many stills from the movie that maybe it wouldn't live up to all I anticipated, but it DID. Everything that you all have said about it concerning the lighting, soundtrack, mood, etc was right on the money. It is an extraordinary visual delight. Just a few observations. The scene under the robe looking at the camera obscura I don't know what I missed there but I didn't pick up on any special tension or sparks. I know she was a little flustered afterwards but couldn't that have been due to talking to someone who is your master? I did enjoy the exchange right after that when he is explaining the camera obscura to her and she asks, "Is it real"? Just loved his burst of laughter. I think at that point and up until he asks her what color the clouds are he is looking at her as someone who is curious and is hungry to learn. When he looked at her during the earl part of the film I thought his eyes had a soft look. IMO they first time he looks at her in a more intense way was when he asked her to pick something up for him. By the way did anyone else love the way they did his eyes with that little smudgelook underneath the bottom lashes? I agree with what has been said here about the ending being ambiguous, but I did like that touch of the pearls being wrapped in the blue and yellow cloth. Since we don't know (in the movie) what happends to Vermeer I think this makes sure the viewer knows the earrrings were sent to her because he wanted her to have them. But as to being able to tell where she went or what became of her that is titally up in the air. Sorry for being so long winded, but it was such a beautiful movie.

About that ending...from Olivia Hetreed: What was the motivation behind changing the ending ever so slightly? The end of the book is a 'ten years later' jump. You can do that in a book because you can go back and you can reflect. But in a film you are strictly in the linear experience. Having a 'ten years later' at the end of this very intense story between two people would ostensibly let the tension out. And there was also a practical consideration, which is that you've got a 17 year-old girl and you're gonna suddenly make her look 30. It's a bit creaky. So I had both an aesthetic and a very practical consideration in mind. I wanted to convey the sense of openness and possibility about the ending. I think what the book does, and what I didn't wan t the film to do, is to tie everything up completely so that you know what's happened and where everybody's gone. I liked the fact that this was the beginning of Griet's life and that she had potential to do things with it.

I can almost accept OH's explanation of the ambigious ending a bit better than PW's, but I still think they went a little too far.

And PW said it was different in the script than the way he wanted it and filmed it. Do you remember that Linda? Or were you paying more attention to trying to play footsies with ODB? ;-)

(Dorine)Do you remember that Linda? Or were you paying more attention to trying to play footsies with ODB? ;-). I remember nothing from the time the screening ended until we were on the escalator-I just sat and drank in every possible minute that I could, and tried to play footsie, of course. Actually, I do remember PW saying something along those lines, but my post came more from what I've read his comments to be. (sorry, Peter)

(Olivia)"Having a 'ten years later' at the end of this very intense story between two people would ostensibly let the tension out. I didn't even get "the 10 years later"idea...all I saw was Griet with a bunch of chickens running about in a kitchen. To me she looked as if she went 'home'.

(Olivia)"Having a 'ten years later' at the end of this very intense story between two people would ostensibly let the tension out. I fully agree. However, the ending came out really confusing this way. I have no clue how I would've done it though, this seems sort of a no win situation no matter what.

(Olivia)"Having a 'ten years later' at the end of this very intense story between two people would ostensibly let the tension out. (Evelyn)I didn't even get "the 10 years later"idea...all I saw was Griet with a bunch of chickens running about in a kitchen. To me she looked as if she went 'home'. I thought Olivia was trying to say that she wanted to avoid the "ten years later" like how the novel ended . .there by giving the screenplay an open ambigous ending . . . unless I'm reading it wrong . . . It did look like she went back home though . .think it was almost an exact shot through the doorway as in the beginning when we saw her chopping vegtables . . . will try to notice it again next time I see the film Am curious to get a copy of the screenplay to read it as well . . .

Saw GWAPE for the 3rd time today (I know I probably have to catch up with some of the Metro Gals ;-) ). The film just gets better every time I see it. I heard a couple behind me praising the film. They were talking about how GWAPE had really been an emotional experience and how anything else (i.e., the "missing" drama and action) was unnescessary/that it was complete as it was.

Well well, I am back at home already and in my jammies. I am sure Dorine and Tress are still partying!! I do have to work in the morning, but will see them and the movie again tomorrow night...... I do not know where to begin.... "Master of the Moor" only better..... a very different role than we have ever seen before. Many things are not what they seem in this movie. Colin looked so lost and troubled, I wanted to help! It was really nice seeing so many other gals wondering if Colin was going to show, as my sisters were with me and now know I am not alone in my madness! I think I am going to leave more of the details of the movie for Dorine and Tress tommorrow, and add a few bits to their remarks. The movie did make you think a lot, and Colin was very good in his portrayal of someone who is "tramatized" by a horrific car accident, but you find out that is the tip of the iceberg later on. enough for now... I look forward to seeing it again. Sandi

Oh, Sandi, you lucky girl! Thanks so much for sharing. I'm taking full advantage of being in the same time zone and get my two cents worth of thanks in before the flood in a few hours. I'm so happy for all of you that your wait in the cold was rewarded with tickets. (Sandi)Colin looked so lost and troubled, I wanted to help! I love it when Colin looks like he needs help. So, it "worked" for you then, did it?

Yes, And I will have to get a better look tommorrow night in the village, the venue there has 150 seats as opposed to the 1250+ tonight, but he kisses Mena and totally sucks her lip and I think he bit it and held it for awhile. And it looked like there was tongue and saliva exchanged. I was very surprised and did not mention this to my sisters, as they would not have realized this is out of the norm for him. I found it odd that I knew Mena was in the audience and seeing her doing that, and knowing she is there watching it also. Sandi

(Sandi) "Master of the Moor" only better..... Ooooh! Plus he's not wearing that baggy anorak. he kisses Mena and totally sucks her lip and I think he bit it and held it for awhile. And it looked like there was tongue and saliva exchanged. Now how am I going to go to sleep?! ;-) I was very surprised and did not mention this to my sisters, as they would not have realized this is out of the norm for him. And that it has become a part of the core curriculum here. LOL! Thanks so much Sandi for getting online right away. Looking forward to hearing more from Drool's Park City Partygirls. ;-) (Caribou) I'm taking full advantage of being in the same time zone *waving from one time zone over* and it's late here. ;-)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/sundance/sundance_diary_3.shtml Report on "Trauma"

Thanks, Sandi, for the late night Trauma report! I have been so curious about this film and how it would be received. Love that it reminded you of Master of the Moor. I have a soft spot for poor Stephen Whalby. Looking forward to hearing more today from you, Dorine and Tress.

OMG Linda! You are famous! A big mention on the BBC site! What did you ask? Did she respond yet? Now we just need wireimage pics of Tress and Dorine partying it up with Marc Evans and I can get on with a happy morning!

Sandi, thanks so much for your post. I couldn't wait to get to the point where I could sit down with my tea and read the breaking news from Sundance. Your tidbits are a lovely holdover until the other reports from Tress and Dorine come in. Where are they, by the way?? It's got to be at least 8 am there by now and I'm sure they know many of us waiting with baited breath.. Guess it must have been a late party - wish I was there. ...but he kisses Mena and totally sucks her lip and I think he bit it and held it for awhile. Oh, how long I have waited to see him truly go at it...

...And it looked like there was tongue and saliva exchanged. OMG...We have waited years for this. He listened to Moon. The Tongue Brigade is proud of him. WooHoo!

(Sandi)but he kisses Mena and totally sucks her lip and I think he bit it and held it for awhile. And it looked like there was tongue and saliva exchanged OMG, OMG. I know I'm shouting boss, but if this isn't a reason to shout. I am so, oh, I don't know what I am. (Sandi) "Master of the Moor" only better..... I love MOTM. Love these kinds of shows. I can't wait to hear more. (Maria)OMG Linda! You are famous! A big mention on the BBC site! LOL, Maria please send me the link. I don't remember what I asked. I've been all over the place, lately. Are you sure it's me?

You weren't alone, Linda. I asked her to ask Dark Marc when Trauma would open in UK. http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/sundance/sundance_diary_3.shtml

(Sandi)but he kisses Mena and totally sucks her lip and I think he bit it Oooh just maybe he got braver after sucking lip with Mena and is now walking around nekkid with Renee;-)! (a girl can dream can't she?)

(Sandi) And it looked like there was tongue and saliva exchanged. Oh no. I hoped I'd never see that. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you saw that wrong. *whimper*

BIG SPOILER AHEAD: I spoke to Tress and Dorine today, and they are out and about in Park City, but they will get to the Marriot in a couple hours to do a write up. I will do a preliminary post in the meantime, and imagine there are some things out of sequence. We will see it again tonight: Trauma � The movie starts with Ben in the hospital, with quick flashbacks of a horrific car accident in the rain. He has been in a coma for the past 2 weeks. He needs to be held down as he is reliving the whole experience in his mind. Trees coming through the windshield, blood everywhere. He finally is able get up and walk around, but is dazed and confused. News reports are everywhere about the murder of the famous singer �Lauren Parris�, and I imagine the news coverage is similar to when the Princess was killed. He looks suspiciously at everyone, as they don�t get the fact that his own wife is dead. He watches this coverage with a blank expression. Lots and lots of close-ups of him, they follow him as he moves into a new flat, and visits his Psychiatrist. You only hear his voice in the background ask Ben �How did that make you feel?� with Ben filling in most of the dialogue. His parents were killed when he was a child, and he has seen this therapist before. He was unable to go to his wife�s funeral since he was in a coma for 2 weeks, but his sister in-law videotaped it for him, and he watches it regularly along with the news reports of the famous Lauren, which are on all the time. She disappeared a few weeks previous, and her body was found in a canal 2 weeks later. They have no leads in the case. He starts to see his wife behind his back, walking down the street, and tries to catch her but it is always someone else. He runs into his friend Tommy, who offers him work repainting and restoring frescos in a nearby office building. Tommy asks, �Where have you been?� Ben tells him that Alisa is dead, he missed the funeral, Alisa�s family will not speak to him, they never liked him and this is even more reason, and is emotionally devastated. Close to tears several times. Tommy is a true friend and offers emotional support. Ben spends his free time wandering the streets, and has visions and flashbacks all the time. He manages to get unpacked in his new apartment, and the first time bugs appear, he is cutting crickets apart with a knife on a plate. I truly thought he was going to eat one, as he is looking so ragged around the edges! But no, they are for his pet ants he keeps in a big glass aquarium. A big ant farm, close-ups and such throughout the movie. They seem to have a talent for getting out and crawling around where they shouldn�t be also. Just a couple at first�.. Mena�s Character Charlotte finally appears. She is a neighbor across the hall, and is the landlady. She leaves a cup of sugar cubes in a coffee cup, and as they see each other, she explains that she looks out after the place for her Dad, how is into apartment conversions. They speak and he lightens up a bit. Ben stumbles through the days trying to work, talking to his Shrink, and wandering about all the while having flashbacks about everything, and still seeing the 24/7 news coverage about the death of Lauren Parris. It seems she was last seen in his new neighborhood. Police are re-staging the last location spot she was seen, hoping it will uncover some clues. It is a busy street market area, and Ben walks right into the middle of it as everyone is frozen and waiting for �action� to be called by a director. Does not help him one bit I must say. These are the scene stills we have seen previously. He looks like that pretty much the whole way through the movie. He also sees Charlotte around; she is at a nursing home in the neighborhood working with the elderly. She seems to be massaging their shoulders from the back and you begin to think she knows more about him than she lets on. More flashbacks are revealed, and you begin to realize that He and Alisa were arguing right before the accident. They Police are now starting to follow him as well. A detective shows up at his apartment, and Ben must quickly hide the photo album he has now started keeping about Lauren and her death. Not a good idea to start that right now, I think. It seems he is starting to blur Alisa�s death with hers now. He gets a note at his door again from Charlotte to meet her, and he goes and finds he is in a Psychic reading, with a woman talking for others on the other side. He does not get anything from it, and on the way home he walks with Charlotte and she explains that �it seems to help some people� and she knows he has suffered a loss. �I read it on your rental application� , she states. She appears normal, and he takes to a museum where he used to work, and shows her animals and of course, bugs. She is �allergic� to spiders, at which point he laughs and gets her to hold a rubber one in her hand. �Phase one� he tells her. They leave and go home. He tries to see Alisa�s sister, but she runs away from him. A few more ants are starting to escape, and he still has flashbacks all the time. You come to realize he is really loosing his grip on reality. Still sees Alisa, and knocks over an elderly woman in the street and gets thumped for it by others. Sees his shrink again, and talks briefly about having to go live with �Aunt Charlotte� after his parents death. His favorite book is �Charlotte�s Web�, and there is a picture of him and his Aunt inside the front cover. Charlotte takes him to another reading, and this time the results are much different. The Psychic finds him and pulls him up and begins to tell him �so much pain, so much death, you have lost your love� he answers her and says something like �We argued� and she gets Alisa�s name right. She then says, �I am talking of your mother, your wife has not crossed over yet�. YIKES. He of course runs out of there, followed by Charlotte. He is furious an accuses her of �f******g* with him. They go back to his apartment and he gets out a photo album and begins to show Charlotte pictures of Alisa and himself. They look together and he breaks down, sobbing. Charlotte tries to get him to relax by massaging his head and shoulders. He finally grabs here and that�s where the kissing comes in. Pretty wild I thought, I will wait for others to offer their opinions as well. They tumble about, and he freaks out and pushes himself away from her, but she climbs upon his chest and holds him. No sex or nudity of any kind, you get the feeling she wants to help, and he is beyond it. He has also discovered in the meantime that the building he now lives in is a former Hospital, and he ventures down to the cellar, where the Morgue was located. He finds a strange guy who is the caretaker of the building, and will provide storage down there if needed. So, Ben is CRAZY, he lives in a renovated hospital, and keeps an Ant farm. Not a healthy mix! Do you want more? Sandi

*bows to Sandi*) . .ahh one of the three Park City Goddesses . .thanks so much for the info . .the BIG spoiler . .I am so ready to see this film! Hmmm . .Colin's changing his on-screen kissing style (perhaps for good,?:) . .no more uncomfortable kisses in the future). .lovely lovely visions dancing in my head (separated from the blood and insects of course)

Yes, would love to hear more, Sandi! Great, detailed summary. Thanks!

...And it looked like there was tongue and saliva exchanged. (Evelyn), OMG...We have waited years for this. He listened to Moon. Yippeee!!! Seeing is believing and I can't wait to see it! Thank you Colin! Of course, it has to do with the fact that a feisty young Scot wrote it into the screen play and a fiery young Scot director insisted. ;-D More please Sandi! And thanks! (Sandi), It seems he is starting to blur Alisa�s death with hers now. I thought they might be the same person. Why is Ben fasianted with Lauren? Is his wife really dead? I was wondering what you thought of the screen play. Is it as good as it'supposed to be? What part does Brenda Flicker play? Why do you think it hasa not picked up a US distribution deal?

Ok here goes: CAUTION BIG SPOILER!! Fragmented things start falling into place. He visits Alisa�s sister again, and you get the impression she is keeping something from Ben. Not surprising, since he is a LUNATIC, and we begin to suspect he was one before. She tells him �you were so obsessed with her� when he asks why the police are following him. You begin to think he was obsessed with Lauren the singer at this point. Not many questions answered, but many more opened up. You also know that his therapist tapes the sessions with him, placing a watch on top of the recorder each time he comes. You find that Ben and Alisa had a horrific fight that night, more and more clips appear, as does the spiraling madness. More ants have escaped, and he has put masking tape all along the top of the aquarium in an attempt to keep them in. Also, it is an attempt at keeping the madness from escaping full force. He runs from Tommy in the street and is absolutely paranoid, the Detective shows up again, and everything starts escalating. His wife shows up! You think she is not real, but she is!!! He 1st thinks it is Charlotte outside the door, calls her name, and tells her they shouldn�t see each other again. Opening the door, he sees Alisa and grabs her. He can�t believe he was able to catch her finally. He wants her back, begs and begs her. But you find out that the argument they had was about her leaving, that she couldn�t take him anymore, he was so obsessed. She apologized for telling him she was dead, but thought that was the only way she would be able to be free from him. He asked about the funeral tape, how did she make it, and she makes him watch it again, and you realize that it is the funeral for Lauren Parris; it says so in the window of the hearse. You begin to realize just how sick he is, he had viewed that same scene and never seen the name before. You find that their lives are entwined with Lauren Parris in some way, I think Alisa is dating one of her publicists, or there is some other connection. You also now wonder if he is the killer, and he begins to think he is as well. Alisa asks about Charlotte, and he says �I will get rid of her� but it is no use, Alisa won�t stay and he is crushed. The photo album is now very large and scary. It is the work of someone who is truly mad. He can�t distinguish between what/ who is real anymore, and neither can we. You begin to try and find the solution yourself. Charlotte shows up again, and you are not sure if she is real at all, or someone else. She asks, �Have you forgotten about phase 2?� But Ben has not forgotten. �I think this is a mistake� she says (that�s for sure, this line got laughs from the audience) and she follows him to the basement/morgue. We were also told before that the old medical examiners used to write the names of the deceased on the wall, and Charlottes name now appears there as she descends the stairs. She finds him by a wall with doors, which used to hold the remains of the deceased (like a coroners office) and Ben is there, waiting. He sees a large spider in a cobweb and gingerly picks it up. He then backs Charlotte against a wall and strangles her, but not before slowly putting the huge spider in her mouth. He holds it in her mouth as he crushes her head to the wall. He returns upstairs, where he is found bleeding. He has smashed the Ant farm to bits and they are everywhere. Madness has taken over. You also realize that he has been taping his own therapy sessions, and there is no psychiatrist. Charlotte is found in the basement, very real, and very dead. The final scene is a �psycho� type scene, where he is in a hospital, again watching the news. They have found Lauren Parris� killer, and he has been arrested. They show his picture, and it is NOT Ben, but someone else. The detective is there, and Ben says, � It wasn�t me�. The detective never thought it was Ben, but couldn�t figure out why he was so obsessed. Closing shot are his eyes. I was left with the thought that some people and things were only real to Ben, and it is open to interpretation. Ben was always Crazy.

Brenda Flicker plays the "John Edwards" crossing over medium. I find her funny cause I remember her playing Mike Myers Mom in "So I married an axe murderer". I was expecting her to break out into that hysterical character, but she was really good at portraying the Medium.

Sandi, All I can say is WOW . . . Thank you thank you thank you for this sum-up/spoiler. . .This sounds like a wonderful film . .I am hoping (with fingers and toes crossed) that it gets a US distributor quickly so I can see it! . .this sounds like a great meaty role for ODB . .I want to see him in it . . .am getting goosebumps thinking about ODB . . deranged look in his eye . .ooh and the whole "phase 2" spider thing is giving me the willys . . .

Sounds like a script with many open-ended situations. You never quite get a grasp on what's going on. Evelyn won't like it.;-) Thanks, Sandi! Did you like it?

I did, but I also felt like I wanted my Mr Darcy back!! I wanted to scream it in the movie, but I thought that would be too disrespectful to others around me. Everyone was totally silent and watched it intensly. It was not the type of movie I go after to see normally, and the only reason I went was to see Colin in it. I had heard somewhere before that MS was not real, so I went into the movie with the opinion that nothing was what it seems, and it was not. First you felt so sorry for him, but then you started to get creeped out, and think "get a grip!" but then slowly you realize he is truely insane. I am not sure Alisa was even in the car with him, I think he imagined her in the car, but only the accident was real. You never heard anyone tell him his wife was dead. When she came to see him they argued again, and she said "you left me in the pouring rain without my shoes!" and you saw a clip of him driving off. It will be interesting to see it again tonight

Hey Evelyn, this one makes Vanilla Sky sound simple.;-) Sandi, your memory of the film is truly remarkable, after only one viewing. Did you like it? Also, one early report from the set (from a crew member) indicated that the Scottish accents were impenetrable; I think he was referring to a nightclub scene where Ben is with his mates. What did you think? (Moon)Why do you think it has not picked up a US distribution deal? Well, it's early yet and this is the first time any studio would have seen it. But I can understand why a studio would not have greenlit it in advance. Can you imagine that pitch meeting? "It's about a guy who's crazy. Or maybe he's just injured. His wife died in the accident. Or maybe there was no accident. Maybe there's no wife. There's a neighbor. We think. Anyhow, there's plenty of ants . . . .;-)

Sounds like a film you'd have to see many, many times before it makes sense. I guess I'll just have to *force* myself... Thank you so much for all the info Sandi...and thanks to your able fingers as well....they must be exhausted.

I did find Tommy's accent hard to follow at times, and would imagine others could have more difficulty even if they are used to watching a lot of UK shows and movies, like me. I did not remember his accent like that in Gladiator at all, was it? I also had to watch Donavan Quick twice in a row to get the dialogue.

(Sandi)He also sees Charlotte around; she is at a nursing home in the neighborhood working with the elderly Another nursing home attendant! Does he carry her down the street;-) (Mari)) Hey Evelyn, this one makes Vanilla Sky sound simple.;-) (Leslie) Sounds like a film you'd have to see many, many times before it makes sense. Sounds to me like you better have Episode 6 close by. *Clap, clap* Sandi. What a memory. You're right up there with Caribou!

(Sandi) I also had to watch Donavan Quick twice in a row to get the dialogue. Hey, I never did get what Clive said. Maybe sub-titles would help in the distribution. Does Colin speak in a Scottish accent too?

No he does not, the only one I had a hard time hearing was Tommy. (Evelyn)"Another nursing home attendant! Does he carry her down the street;-) " And another no, he does not carry her down the street, just kills her by smashing her head into a wall. Maybe he should have tried that in Hope springs?

(Karen) Ooooh! Plus he's not wearing that baggy anorak. Ummmmm.....saw anorak....sorry Karen! :-( Seems Sandi has us covered...we have limited time on internet here so have not had time to read everyone's posts (sorry), but wanted to say that Do and I got an "exclusive"!!!! Will go to CF Topic and tell more!

Sandi, thanks for the great report. I think I read it all without breathing.

(Evelyn), Another nursing home attendant! Does he carry her down the street;-) No but he gets to bang her too. Her head that is. ;-) But what did you Sandi and also Tress and Dorine, think of the script? Remember they were raving about his script and his talent. Does it live up to expectation?

Thank you, Sandi. Wow, what detail. What was the audience reaction at the end. Do you think it was well received? Was there a nightclub scene? He then backs Charlotte against a wall and strangles her, but not before slowly putting the huge spider in her mouth. He holds it in her mouth as he crushes her head to the wall. Yikes, I can't imagine this. Can't wait to see it. This is a huge departure for ODB in a long, long time. (Lesliep)Sounds like a film you'd have to see many, many times before it makes sense Maybe T will evolve into a 'Sixth Sense' type of film where people went back several times after they knew the ending to see the clues they missed along the way. (Gail)Sandi, thanks for the great report. I think I read it all without breathing. LOL, me too.

(Lesliep)Sounds like a film you'd have to see many, many times before it makes sense (Linda) Maybe T will evolve into a 'Sixth Sense' type of film where people went back several times 'Fraid not for me...oh yes, I'll eventually own it (DVD?) if for no other reason than to support jobbing actors in London, but with spiders? Will require full daylight viewings with *ample* hours before lights out. (The things I do, no one knows what I sacrifice...)

First of all, thank you Sandi for reporting that ODB has finally gotten over his case of lockjaw!!! V. important news! Lovely detailed review! Make me even more eager to see T, especially since it now sounds less conventional horror and more a picture of psychopathology (a favorite subect of mine!). I can imagine various Tumbledown and DQ aspects to the performance as well as the already mentioned AZ and MOTM moments. Colin does such a good job at emotional disturbance; he would make the editors of the DSM-IV proud. ;-) (Moon)But what did you Sandi and also Tress and Dorine, think of the script? Remember they were raving about his script and his talent. Does it live up to expectation? (Linda)Do you think it was well received? Does this seem a film with potential to really show off Colin's range (not that I don't adore wet shirts and brooding and Darcys) to the public, in your opinion?

Love comments, Dorine and Tress! If you see ME again, do ask him about the kissing scene with MS and why he kills her at the end?

Sandi, thanks for your spoiler, wow! It seems that people who wanted to see Colin do something other that smoulder on screen got what they wanted. I'm not interested in these types of movies, but the idea of seeing a non smouldering, miserable, really f***ed up Colin is hard to resist, so I'll definately go see this one. (Sandi) I found it odd that I knew Mena was in the audience and seeing her doing that, and knowing she is there watching it also. I cannot imagine her experience. To sit there, watching the movie you are in, hoping it looks great..., what an incredible risk it is. You do your job, do your best, and then it's totally out of your hands, all you can do is hope for the best. Must be nerve wrecking.

HI all, I think Dorine and Tress are now on their way to the airport. We were fortunate to see it again last night in a smaller venue, about 160 seats in the Sundance Screening room. Unfortunately there was no Q&A, as no one from the movie was there. I thought that was too bad, they had 2 shows, 7/10pm in the same place. I also thought the movie flowed much better the second time through. Maybe it was all the staring at ODB the first time! Real tunnel vision I must say that first time around. It also felt much longer the first time as well, it seemed longer than the 93 minutes, but on second viewing it went much faster and you always notice more things which fill in the story more. I will say that I also liked it very much, It is a much darker film than I am used to, and I do not think I would have seen it otherwise. My appeal for the movie is really him and his performance. Couple of funny things while hanging around. Of course, I am with my sisters who tease me mercilessly about my obsession. First screening, 2 girls in their 20's walk up to the line and say "Colin Firth is SO HOT!" at which point we hit it off right away! My sisters thought it was funny that it was not just the more mature "intelligent" women who lust after him! We had a lively converstaton about all things Colin, of which I was the resident expert. We then go inside and are waiting again, and I am going to leave my sisters to go to the press area, and there is a woman standing right next to us who is "having her share of our conversation", and I finally look at her and she says "Do you think Colin will be here?". We were pretty sure at that point he was not, and my sister told her "not likely, and if he was, you would have to get past HER (pointing to ME) first, which ain't gonna happen". Oh, the special bonds of sisterhood. Yesterday I am in a client's office to take my other "Obsessed" friend who works there to the movie. She tells me that an associate asked her "who" is in the "Sundance Movie" we are off too, and when she tells him, he says "OMG you have to go tell Travis, his wife is TOTALLY in love with him", at which point we do! Travis is behind his desk, and he has found out already through the office buzz, and is shaking his head at us when we enter. We ask if we might invite his wife to go, at which point he says "NO WAY" and we mention that we have his home phone number and wouldn't he feel bad if she found out etc. The funniest thing, he says "I don't think he's that special at all, but my wife says he is the sexiest thing alive when he comes out of that pond and the water is dripping from his hair (all the while he is carressing his head and shoulders) I just don't get it". It was hilarious to see a grown man do this. Mind you, he is a church going Mormon and you don't see this type of behavior every day. My friend and I discussed the film at length on the way home, I did not tell her about the ants and spiders, and she thanked me for that. It is one you need to watch again. I also saw a lot more of ODB's expressions the second time around. During the scene where Alisa comes to his apartment, He is full on crying and begging, and has to pull back out of it to show her he can keep it together. His performance is amazing, he has the real flushed face from real crying and almost hyperventilates at one point, then tears fall again and he wipes them off and makes them stop, straightens up and calms himself down. I did not see the depth of it the first time. He had other moments like that as well, but that one stood out for me. more later Sandi

Sandi- RE: ODB's amazing performance I've always thought that the root of his great sex appeal is based in his talent as a gifted actor. I cannot wait to see his performance in this film! The best part of T (IMHO) is that the bigger world might finally clue into his talents and realize there's a lot more going on than a great pair of breeches. But then again, the breeches are always very nice... Sandi, put your feet up. You deserve a long rest after a job well done. (And your fab sisters too!)

Great news on Colin's performance. Thank you, Sandi. I have another question. There have been a few comments and posts about the ending being too open ended. What do you think about that? I'd like to know if you think it's open ended in a good way...a way that makes you think about it all the way home and then some. Does it leave you with a feeling like I need to see it again, or this is just too obscure to give it any more thought? The woman from the BBC that I e-mailed said it was a good film but it left her feeling like Chinese take-away--a bit unsatisfied. I can take that in one of two ways...unsatisfied as in hungry for more, or unsatisfied as in unfulfilled. Which do you think?

(Sandi)the real flushed face from real crying and almost hyperventilates at one point, then tears fall again and he wipes them off and makes them stop, straightens up and calms himself down. He hyperventilates v. well. We saw that in 3 DOR. Can't wait to hear more.

I fear that my opinion is biased by the enjoyment of watchng ODB in anything! I do not think it is a movie I would search out and go to otherwise. If any other Big star was in it instead, I might be drawn to it also depending on who is was. I did like it the first time, but I enjoyed it much more the second time. I think her mentioning the unsatisified ending is a little over the top. This is a movie that makes you think, like Psyhco or the sixth sense. I also think with independant films you get a lot more to think about. I would imagine if they tied up the loose ends, then someone would argue that it shouldn't have ended that way. The ending of the movie really left you thinking about what was the real part and what was not. the only thing it left me with was wanting to see it again, to look more deeply into the scenes. It was interesting, we had a discussion in the lobby with a few ladies last night, 2 were quite young, and they actually stopped us in conversation and wanted to listen. They did not pickup on as much as we did, I am not sure they knew what to look for. We discussed the ants, and the fact that they seemed to represent the insanity in his life, and that throughout the movie as more escaped, you could see his insanity escalating. One lady even said "I didn't even see that" which surprised us, as I picked up on that right away. It might be because she hadn't read anything about the movie. My friend also focused on an other point which I totally missed, and that is the association with Charlotte's web. I have never read the book, but it was one of her favorites, and she saw the whole perspective of Charlotte being his Aunt as a child, and also MS's character, that only he could only talk to them, like in the book. We also discussed whether or not she was real, and decided that she was, because she was found dead by another person (if he was real) but also by the detective at the end of the movie (but what if he wasn't real?) Ben had a Monologue at the end, were he goes to his therapist and is discovered by Tommy. He watches from a distance while Ben is talking to no-one. Ben states "he just decided what had to be done, he made a decision to end it" or something to that affect. Maybe he had to end the "talking" to "Charlotte" that no one could see. Ben was clearly insane before the accident, and you get a little insight as to what that is like, unsatisfied unfullfilled, real and unreal. It's interesting, I have never been to Sundance before, and will be back next year definitely to see what is out there.

(Sandi)The ending of the movie really left you thinking about what was the real part and what was not. Sounds a lot like David Cronenberg's "Spider", last year's movie with RF. 91% rating from Rotten Tomatoes main critics. V. limited release. Dorine, Karen , Me and probably 10 other people in the US saw it;-) Only took in $1.2+ at the BO. Worth checking out.Tremendous performances. My favorite film last year. LOL. Ya' see Moon...sometimes I do like films that are obscure. Colin alluded to Spider in one of his early interviews about Trauma.

Just as a GWAPE aside . . . Evelyn - When I went for my 3rd viewing with Leslie on Monday . .was determined to try to figure out a clue to where Griet was at the end (damned vague ending) I believe she was at home . .I noticed (anal that I was) the glass window panes on the side of the doorway in Griet's house in the opening shots of the film (veggie cutting scene). (The glass was conformed in iron circles, slightly pale colors arranged in a vertical pattern). Noticed the same glass pattern beside the doorway at tne ending shot . .with Griet sitting in the chair with those chickens running about. Granted, they could have wanted it to be a different place (Pieter's home, etc) but just used the same set piece . . .but I did notice that;) 3rd time viewing was lovely . .am thinking a 4th may come my way . .(have to catch up with Dorine's 6 viewings!)

Glad to know that someone else noticed the identical windows, Kimberly! I've spent far too much time and mental effort trying to get some meaning out of the final scene. I also believe that it is at Griet's house. Additionally, there is a new set of clothes hanging up as she can be seen. I've assumed that to mean that she was indeed getting married to/had married Pieter. It's reading a whole lot out of very little, but a wedding would be one of the only reasons why someone of Griet's SES would have new clothes, particularly those as fine as the ones on the wall seem. I can then draw all sorts of semi-meaningful relationships between the clothes and van Ruijven and the maid in the red dress and the ownership/taking/purchase of Griet, but I won't to save evryone a headache. ;-) Must arrange viewing #4 to do more field work!

I know . .perhaps I'm thinking too much too about that ending . .but, well, . .since I saw it (Shoshana)Additionally, there is a new set of clothes hanging up as she can be seen. Yes! . .I saw the new clothing too . .the pretty, rather fancy yellow dress hanging against the left wall . .kind of out of place in a farmhouse . . . would the wedding clothing be as fancy as that? . . .trying to think of how the plainer, somber Protestant vs. more opulant Catholic lifestyle was portrtayed in the book and film . .would even for such an occasion would a wedding dress for her be like that? . .May have to visit my costumer site again . .or perhaps Michelle (who is also a costumer, can enlighten us . .) (Shoshanna)I can then draw all sorts of semi-meaningful relationships between the clothes and van Ruijven and the maid in the red dress and the ownership/taking/purchase of Griet, but I won't to save evryone a headache. ;-) Ooh I'm interested in your take . .you can email me off line, if you'd like;)

(Kimberley) Ooh I'm interested in your take . .you can email me off line, if you'd like;) No. I wanna hear it too. Hey, I was the one who thought Griet had gone home. So now....maybe the earrings are a wedding gift;-) LOL. Why not. Peter Weber took all kinds of liberties.

OK, Kimberley. Now I'm interested as well - a lot of this passed right over my head on Monday. Woe is me...guess that means I'm off to the theater again...

In regards to the ending of GWAPE, we just have to view it without thinking about the book at all. As Peter Webber says, he filmed his version, not the book's. The scene is apparently at her home, not long after Griet was dismissed. Any ideas about her being married or pregnant or anything else like that has no evidence in the movie. The confusion generated by this comes from confusing the book with the film. What we are left with in the film is wondering WHY the earrings were sent to her. Was it from Vermeer, and if so, why? That leaves us with the enigma of just what Vermeer really felt about her - affectionately as a lover that never was, or as a muse selfishly used by an artist for whom his art came first. I think there's a mixture of both interpretations, but with Vermeer the artist superceding Vermeer the man.

Thanks for your take, Katty. FYI I'm not even taking the book into consideration. And I'm glad you have it all figured out;-)

...And it looked like there was tongue and saliva exchanged. (Evelyn), OMG...We have waited years for this. He listened to Moon. (Moon) Yippeee!!! Seeing is believing and I can't wait to see it! Um, hate to disappoint....while it was better than it's been, it's not quite as great as you imagine. Was just talking to Sandi on the phone about it, and with Tress last night. Kiss was not as good as HOTP by far (which I don't think Sandi has seen, if I'm not mistaken), but not stiff-lipped either. We realized the second time around that while there was some slightly open mouths, we seem to have seen more of a "Madonna-Britney" kiss.....open mouth, no tongue. What we thought was tongue, may have just been a shot of the inside of one of their mouths. He did bite and pull on her bottom lip, though. Forgive me if I repeat something, have not read Sandi's reports yet, and little of anything else. This subject just caught my eye as I skimmed. There were 2 kissing scenes. In the first one, it was too difficult to truly discern the type of kiss well, because of the shooting angle and way it was lit (BTW, the lighting is fantastic!). Lots of shadows on their faces. The lighting was a factor the second time too, though angle was better as they were more stationary. First time they moved around a lot. One thing Tress and I discussed about those scenes, especially the first one, is how unromantic and unerotic (is that a word?) those scenes are really. It's more about him making a human connection with someone, anyone...vs a real connection between those two. One thing Sandi and I discussed tonight was the fact that we were glad they didn't actually sleep together. I remember at the point just before they were going to kiss for the first time, I internally cringed because I didn't want them to go there. It didn't seem it would fit the tone of the film at that point. So, I was actually glad they didn't go there.

(Linda) Maybe T will evolve into a 'Sixth Sense' type of film where people went back several times after they knew the ending to see the clues they missed along the way. Exactly!! Perfectly put!!

(Dorine) We realized the second time around that while there was some slightly open mouths, we seem to have seen more of a "Madonna-Britney" kiss.....open mouth, no tongue. Whew!!! *Fanning self* That was close. One life down, eight to go. Thank you Dorine! :-)

(Linda) (Linda) Maybe T will evolve into a 'Sixth Sense' type of film where people went back several times after they knew the ending to see the clues they missed along the way. Though if they read Spoilers, they won't have missed too much.

Hi all, Just returned from my 3rd viewing, and Dorine is correct about the kissing, not as I had first thought. trying to absorb everything the first time, I even remembered it to be all one scene, and there are two. I also noticed more references to Charlotte's Web this time. Better and Better I must say.

(Sandi), I also noticed more references to Charlotte's Web this time. And Mena's character is named Charlotte. And he kills her in the end because Charlotte the spider was supposed to die. He feels he's trapped, he's in her trap and after he finds out that his wife is alive and things are not what they seem anymore, he kills her. Almost to ground himself, to get back to reality, his own horrible reality. Am I close? ...And it looked like there was tongue and saliva exchanged. (Evelyn), OMG...We have waited years for this. He listened to Moon. (Moon) Yippeee!!! Seeing is believing and I can't wait to see it! (Dorine), Um, hate to disappoint....while it was better than it's been, it's not quite as great as you imagine. LOL! After all this time, I can see why this would catch your eye first. So much for fiery and feisty Scots. ;-)

(Dorine), Um, hate to disappoint....while it was better than it's been, it's not quite as great as you imagine. Bummer, (Dorine).. we were glad they didn't actually sleep together...It didn't seem it would fit the tone of the film at that point. So, I was actually glad they didn't go there. Getouttahere...what kind of a Droolie are you;-)) Who cares about the f*&(^ film;-) Thanks Dorine, Tress and Sandi....glad you had such blast. Park City will never be the same again.

(Evelyn) Getouttahere...what kind of a Droolie are you;-)) *hanging head in shame*

I have a question for the Sundance ladies...did any of you see the leash? Or did it signify in the movie at all?

(Ada) I have a question for the Sundance ladies...did any of you see the leash? Or did it signify in the movie at all? It's not the same leash. It appears to be a brown leather strap that has long-ish (about an inch) wooden beads (I know that makes little sense, but you can see the segments of it). You get a good view of it when he's bare chested (belly button shot nearly fills screen at one point!). (Evelyn) Getouttahere...what kind of a Droolie are you;-)) (Dorine) *hanging head in shame* I'm with Dorine on this one...if Ben had slept with anyone, he would have been making a connection that his character just didn't have (but he seemed to crave). The kisses weren't about sex, the first seemed to be a need to connect and the second had a whole different thing going on..... I still haven't read all of spoilers so I'm sorry if I repeated anything. Want to sit down for a few hours and go through it before I start going too nuts on the comments.... BTW, it was fantastic meeting Sandi and others CF fans! Had a blast!!!

(Ada)...did any of you see the leash? Or did it signify in the movie at all? Great, Ada. I meant to ask that too. I remember seeing it in the still shots from filming. Tress? Dorine? Sandi? (Evelyn)Who cares about the f*&(^ film;-) LOL, I'm with you. Well said!;-)

(Evelyn) Getouttahere...what kind of a Droolie are you;-)) (Dorine) *hanging head in shame* (Tress)I'm with Dorine on this one...if Ben had slept with anyone, he would have been making a connection *whistling* ...Hey, Tress....didn't ya see my ;-)))))))

please excuse my ignorance but can someone let me know which movie is HOTP?? thanks

Hour of the Pig, aka The Advocate.

thanks very much

Another question for our Sundancers: I know y'all paid close attention to the details and Ben, of course, but do you remember anything about the music? Did it fit the film? Do you think it was enhancing, or hopefully not, distracting?

I liked the music.....mainly instrumental stuff and some songs ("Lauren Parris" songs and a couple of others). I was actually just thinking of all the things I didn't get to ask Marc Evans and that was one of them. Dorine came very close to getting a press packet, but we couldn't find the guy after the premiere....would have helped and we could maybe have given you titles and such...... Music wasn't at all distracting to me. Creepy when it needed to be....there were a couple of times when it ended abruptly (to add to the 'creep' factor) and it was startling....once when Ben is downstairs in the old morgue and a door moves and he sees his own reflection (abrupt end to music made you kinda sit back) and then when he comes out of his 'hospital halucination' scene and slams a door behind him....those are the only two times I really noticed the background music as it was a bit of the focus at that point (if that makes sense??).

Tress, when did you and Sandi connect "Trauma" with "Charlotte's Web." Was it mentioned in the film? I'm reading it now.

Hi, I never read the book, so it was my friend who mentioned it after. Upon the 3rd viewing, I noticed the scene at the end where Charlotte finds him in the cellar, he is standing next to the self and running his fingers in the cobwebs, and says "if you look close enough, do you think you can see letters?" or something like that. Charlotte says "I don't know, maybe". My Sister noticed that because she had read the book. I think it also explains why he "killed" them both together, to get rid of them, since Charlotte the spider dies at the end of the book, correct?

(Evelyn) Tress, when did you and Sandi connect "Trauma" with "Charlotte's Web." Was it mentioned in the film? I noticed the first viewing (I'm a big fan of Wilbur)....Ben's 'Aunt Charlotte' took care of him as a child and his favorite book was CW. I connected that he became an entomologist (spiders) and he was an artist (as was the spider Charlotte). Dorine and I didn't speak to ME about the CW connection as it was the more obvious one to me, but it was a really interesting way to connect everything. Charlotte (the spider) tells Wilber (the pig) after about a year "I have to leave you" and this is what Ben says his Aunt Charlotte said/did to him as a child.....but Elissa says to Ben "you start to tell yourself something and you begin to believe it" so I'm not sure how much of the Aunt Charlotte tale is muddled with Charolotte's Web....is any of this making sense? I love the line at the end about "if you look close enough, do you think you'll see letters?" Ben's such a mess at that point, I'm surprised he had to ask....I was sure he was seeing them! CW was one of my favorite books as a kid....are you enjoying it Evelyn??

It's a darling book...written on many levels, like Alice in Wonderland. Didn't know EB White had also written Stuart Little. Bwaaaah.... I wanna see this film. I haven't lost hope. The American Film Market (AFM) which is a trade group representing indie producers draws 7,000 industry execs from more than 70 countries to see some 400 films screened takes place 23 Feb-5 March in Santa Monica. Lots of films don't make it at Sundance and get picked up somewhere else. Keep Hope Alive!!

Well, I'm not a virgin anymore. That is a Colin Firth big screen virgin. Dh and I saw GWAPE yesterday at the Tivoli here in Kansas City. OMG. I was whisked away for the entire film. I wish the film had come to one of the new stadium-seating theatres, but I'm not arguing too much because it did come within 15 miles of my home. I did notice that she does go back home at the end. The windows are the same and so is the staircase. I think the camera is in the kitchen looking into a room next to it. I spent a lot of time looking at the costuming, sets, props and looking for wig lace. The techie in me did sneak out. :) Question: I've seen stills of Vermeer looking down from a second story window onto the street. Did I miss it in the movie? I don't remember seeing that scene. DH and I had a spirited conversation about whether Vermeer used Griet for the painting or felt he had found someone who understands his passion and was a coward to stand up to his MIL and wife. Dh asked me for the book and said he has to read it now. I also found that for me having read the book I was able to put a lot more things together that the movie didn't explore. I understood more why the Vermeers took Griet in as a maid, Pieter's relationship with her, the ending of the movie and missed the whole story with her family. The breaking of the tile didn't move me onscreen like it did in the book. I realize that changes have to be made with screenplays, but ended up explaining things to the couple in front of us, Dh and another interested lady. I talked about our little world here and I think one of the ladies I talked with yesterday may come check it out. She said she had just printed off a list of all of ODB's movies and was working her way through them. I was so thrilled to be let out of my cage and the day was made all the better because I got to see ODB on the big screen. I won't be able to go see Trauma if it comes out, and can't wait for TEOR. Michelle

Michelle - I also found that for me having read the book I was able to put a lot more things together that the movie didn't explore. You are so right. The scene when she found the broken tile in the book broke my heart, because it was such a treasured possession, but you didn't get much feeling from the movie. I can't remember, was there a scene of Griet's father giving her the tile? (I've only seen it once so far, I know I need to go back & do my duty for the box office numbers.) Another scene that got lost in translation, for me, was when Vermeer asks Griet to buy the colors. That was a big deal in the book, but could be dismissed in the movie.

Gail - Another scene that got lost in translation, for me, was when Vermeer asks Griet to buy the colors. That was a big deal in the book, but could be dismissed in the movie. Yes! I agree too. I was waiting for someone to say something. It seemed just like a secretive deal. That was one of the things DH and I talked about on the way home. There was a scene where she's given the tile by her father. But they don't even mention that she has a brother. I believe we only see him once, and that's at church and he doesn't say a word. Michelle

Question: I've seen stills of Vermeer looking down from a second story window onto the street. Did I miss it in the movie? I don't remember seeing that scene. That scene must have been cut from the movie. I read that the version before the final cut was 3 and a half hours long. I remember also reading Colin saying that a lot of scenes which flesh out more of Vermeer was eliminated, probably to increase the enigma of the character. I bet Colin would have liked more screen time. A clip I saw a while back showed even more of that particular window scene and revealed that he was jealously watching Griet with Pieter down below by the front door. That jealousy aspect was definitely stressed more in the book. I wonder why they cut it. I sure wish the DVD version would show those cut scenes. I bet a whole lot of it would be of Colin.

(leslie)Woe is me...guess that means I'm off to the theater again... if you want someone to join ya, feel free to give me a call;) Katty- love your interpretation of the ending of GWAPE Tress - Am facninated with the CW correlation in Trauma (was one of my fav books as a kid, along w/ Stuart Little!) Let us know more . .you're making perfect sense to me!

After reading CW and Sandi's report I can see a definite relationship there. But will have to see the film before I make a complete fool of myself.

(Mari's Question from CF) Tress and Dorine, just curious: what were the elements of Trauma that you perceived but which Marc Evans said were unintentional? I still have not caught up on Spoilers, so sorry if I'm redundant. Wanted to answer Mari's question. Dorine asked about the shoes (don't know how much everyone knows about this?). In the car, Ben and Elissa are driving. Then there is an argument. Elissa has one shoe off and is rubbing her foot, but when they begin to fight, the car is pulled over and they get out. Ben leaves Elissa stranded by the side of the road (only one shoe on) and when he gets back in the car and the accident occurs, you see Elissa's shoe in his line of sight (which may cause the confusion in his head about her being dead/alive). At the end of the film, when Ben is in the morgue, one of the 'morgue shelves' (don't know what you call them) is filled with shoes. He is pulling them all out and is v. v. disturbed at this point. Later we see the shoes strewn all over the floor of the morgue...down a long hallway. Dorine then asked Marc "what's with the shoes??" and Marc's answer was basically that he hadn't intentionally meant anything with it. That it was like the ants and used as a device to show his mind just coming apart. He id note that all the shoes were singles (no pairs). Am still wondering how/why it wasn't intentionally?! I thought Ben was looking for Elissa's other shoe at that point. He was so incredibly messed up by then that you are just mesmerized that he is falling so completely apart in front of you (this was great acting by ODB). Dorine can probably add a bit more to this bit when she has a second. My question was about Mena's necklaces. Toward the beginning of their aquaintance, Ben notices, as Mena bends over, that she has several necklaces. He asks her "so what's all this about?" and points to them. She then says..."oh, this one, protects the throat." and he responds with "how is that?" and she says "It's the color blue. People have been doing it for hundreds of years." to which he replies "So, you find that works for you then?" and sort of smiles. Then at the end of the film, I told Marc I found it ironic that Ben basically crushes Charlotte's throat. That her "blue stone" didn't work that well for her in the end. He seemed pretty surprised by this as he hadn't intended for the necklace to mean anything, one of those things that just 'worked out in the end', I guess. I found it amusing and ironic, he just found it fascinating that I found a connection. So, you see, no biggies, just things we had questions on and Marc helped, kinda, clear up...NOT! ;-) Hope this all makes sense. It is a very hard film to describe. It is nothing like I thought it would be....and hard to try to explain due to all the visuals used... Loved that he used loads of mirrors and reflections to show Ben's 'fragmented' mind. He also used snapshots a lot. Either by having Ben 'see' things like snapshots (like the reconstruction scene in the market. This was incredibly well done IMO) and in the scenes were he shows Charlotte his photo album. There is a lot of mirroring in that scene and it was very interesting and added to "Ben's confusion". You don't know if the mirroring is in his head or not...so well done.

I think we better have a screening of Trauma helmed by Tress , Dorine & Sandi . I like their insights. Never mind ME;-)

Sorry about the bolds... Never mind ME

Tress . .facinating fact about Charlotte's necklace . . . The color blue is often associated with the throat chakra . . If you are interested in chakras, a nice introductory from Carolin Myss (click on the diagram of the body and it explains it in full;): http://beliefnet.com/index/index_457.html Wonder if you recall what stone it looked like . .turquoise or whatever . .in certain stone therapies specific stones are placed on the chakras for healing . . You can see here on this site (scroll down to the fifth chakra) Crystals and the Chakras: http://www.rainbowcrystal.com/crystal/chakra.html Blue, symbolic of water, is often seen as symbolic of clarity, healing, soothing, creativity (ie ie the "water of life from a woman's womb), fertility, communication . . . Ben's crushing of her throat . .perhaps couldn't deal with the clarity she was trying to provide into his tortured psyche?

(Kimberly) Ben's crushing of her throat . .perhaps couldn't deal with the clarity she was trying to provide into his tortured psyche? LOL...I was going there, but Marc was all astonishment! He in no way had that in mind when filming. I believe the necklace bit was a bit of 'character development' (so Charlotte could be set up as the 'new ager'. During Q&A, after premiere, he said he chose an American actress because he thought it could be pulled off better that way than with an English actress). He didn't even realize the throat connection until I mentioned it to him. Of course, screenwriter wasn't there so we couldn't ask him about it....

Oh...another thing that I liked. A 'mirroring' effect again (and sorry if Sandi already mentioned it). The first thing we see of Ben is his eye (in the hospital). A close up of just his left (I believe it is his left) eye. The film ends the same way. A close up of his eye. Sort of 'rounds out' the film (it did for me anyway). Dorine and I both noted how great the lighting (as well as editing and cinematography) is in this film. There are scenes that are shot with Ben and his 'psychiatrist' where you get close ups. Ben is seen in the light and ODB's eyes appear very light except for the outer ring that appears very dark. He looks GREAT! Another scene I liked is hard to explain. Ben is watching the telly. Lauren Parris' (pop singer that was found dead) manager is on telling the 'killer' that "you cannot hide". As he says this, Ben goes from leaning forward watching the program to leaning back and moving into the shadows. At that point there is a knock on the door and the 'managers' eyes move toward Ben's door (v. v. cool the way this is done). Ben's reflection is seen in the telly as he gets up to answer the door and when he does, it's the manager! It all makes sense as the film moves along, and I know this sounds muddled, but it is done v. well. And there is a reason the manager is there....but not the one you initially think....confused? ;-)

(Tress) The first thing we see of Ben is his eye (in the hospital). A close up of just his left (I believe it is his left) eye. The film ends the same way. I was going to ask about this. There was an hour long recap of Sundance ff on Sunday just before the awards. They showed a montage of the films screened and one quick shot of an eye, and I wondered if it was Colin's, then a quick shot of a body covered with ants-which I'm sure was from Trauma. Another question: at any time was there a scene with a bug coming out of his mouth? I couldn't figure out if it was him--went by too fast.

(Linda) ...one quick shot of an eye, and I wondered if it was Colin's Sounds as if it could be...we get lovely eye shots in Trauma! (Linda) Another question: at any time was there a scene with a bug coming out of his mouth? I haven't seen the coverage you saw, but there was a spider coming out of Charlotte's mouth (so am guessing that is what you saw). Big "professional" spider. Mena said she didn't have to have it in her mouth though. Only it's legs touched her lips. She said it was 'very interesting'. They must have used a 'stunt mouth' for the actual 'exiting' of hairy spider (cuz you do see it in the film...at least I did. I think Dorine had her eyes squeezed tight ;-D).

(Tress) As he says this, Ben goes from leaning forward watching the program to leaning back and moving into the shadows. I just LOVED this! V. cool shot.

I think Dorine had her eyes squeezed tight ;-D). No, just looked down at my lap. :-)

(Tress)It is a very hard film to describe. It is nothing like I thought it would be....and hard to try to explain due to all the visuals used... I can imagine, but you've done a great job of it. Thanks for answering my questions, Tress. Would not be surprised to hear the Sundance Kids' insights show up in Marc Evans's next interview.;-)

Well, I've finally had the opportunity to view GIRL WITH A PEARL EARRING. I haven't read the spoilers contained herein , yet, so these are purely FIRST IMPRESSIONS. I was surprised the scene concerning the birth feast featured more emphasis on revealing the newly finished commission than on the birth itself. I understand the desire to impress Maria Thins' frugality, and the wont to economize screen time,however, I thought V. strutting around the festivities in his paternity hat with ribbons flowing (in the novel) was an insight into his character, also. Interesting that Hatreed chose to substitute C. breaking the lens of the camera obscura (in the novel) for her having a tantrum over some of her jewelry having to be sold to keep them afloat and trying to slash a painting...hence explaining why she wasn't welcome in the studio. First notice of V. becoming cognizant of his attraction to Griet when he hands her the pot of lead white asking her to replenish the supply. Maria Thins stating to Griet that not only she, but the entire family, was caught in van Ruijven's web....the head of a household would never divulge such a truth to a servant.(Although, I understand the viewing audience requires clarification). When C. told Griet to leave her house, Griet's look (of plea) to V. and his subconsequent deference to C.. Now she sees the situation as it really is. Griet leaving the V. house amidst the grey buildings and sky along the brown canal and a few men dressed in black with white collars. Griet's white cap was the focal point and its' luminance was reminiscent of the pearl's reflection of light.

(Bonnie)I thought V. strutting around the festivities in his paternity hat with ribbons flowing (in the novel) was an insight into his character, also. No one in the film seemed to care about his character. It's Griet's movie. Saw GWAPE yesterday and am still confused about the f%$^& ending. And that wig...."which sits precipitously on his head".Gag.

(Evelyn) And that wig...."which sits precipitously on his head".Gag. Oooohhhh......love the wig....I know, something must be wrong with me, cuz I liked the long hair in Valmont too....and love his bed head in Trauma....DH doesn't have hair, maybe that's why I'm so fascinated!

(Evelyn)Saw GWAPE yesterday and am still confused about the f%$^& ending. I just read a review last night in which the reviewer thinks that V sent the pearls to show that he was still interested in Griet and their relationship. When I saw it, I thought someone, either C or V, sent them to her shortly after she went home because they didn't want the reminder around and that any hope of relationship was over. When, as Bonnie pointed out, he defers to Catarina after the painting is finished.

Had 4th viewing of GWAPE just a little while ago with Leslie (gets better each time) Evelyn - What exactly about the ending? . .It's a defininte she went back home. Noticed not only similar glass windows in veggie cutting scene and ending receiving pearls scene. Also noticed copper pan with floral punch hole design hangs in upper right hand of screen during both those scenes as well. Shosh - you had mentioned above b/4 Sundance about some ideas you had as well . .regarding the ending re: post 692: I can then draw all sorts of semi-meaningful relationships between the clothes and van Ruijven and the maid in the red dress and the ownership/taking/purchase of Griet, but I won't to save everyone a headache. ;-) Do tell . .am curious to hear about insight still meant to do that research on the clothing of the time . .must get to it . . (Bonnie)When C. told Griet to leave her house, Griet's look (of plea) to V. and his subconsequent deference to C.. Now she sees the situation as it really is. Leslie and I were talking about this moment too . .Leslie caught more of a look direct to Vermeer . .I thought the look was more toward Catharina . .kind of a defiance as she left . . .gone was the timidity of previously in the film . .her eyes had been opened . .she realized what had happened. . .what she really was in the scheme of things . . Also this time around . .am loving the way the DOP set up these shots . .one of my favs (besides the aerial of Griet stopping on the star in the center of the square in the beginning and end) . .is when Catharina demands to see the painting of Griet. Vermeer takes the current canvas off the easel . .and there for a moment, you see Griet framed, seemingly trapped there in the easel itself . .trapped as she was by this whole situation in the painting.

We didn't talk about it yesterday, Kimberley, but I too have been moved each time I've seen the movie by Griet's stance in the cobblestone star when she's en route to, and then leaving Vermeer's household. Thought it was a beautiful statement about her choosing the direction in her life. In the opening scene she stands in the circle for almost an uncomfortable period of time..seems very uncertain of where to go. At the end, she stops for just a brief moment and walks confidenty toward her home...seems more sure of herself as a person. IMO, it follows suit with that last, 'screw you' look she throws to Vermeer and Catharina as she is banished from their house. Those were the only two moments in the film where I thought we got a glimpse of Griet's personal growth. And remember, Griet's self evolution was really what the book was all about. I wish the film could have been a bit clearer on that point. I also had some more thoughts about the scene where vanRuijven is sitting in his study staring at the finished painting. The camera slowly pans the room for a very long time. VanRuijven is staring solidly at the painting...there is absolutely no movement. Kim and I attributed its significance to some sort of lecherous, perhaps masturbatory moment. I've been thnking though, maybe there was a hint of remorse in his contemplation? Could he have been experiencing a tinge of regret for the near destruction of the Vermeer household as well as Griet's life caused by his orchestrations? Or do we all agree that he was far too narcissistic for such consideration?

( Leslie) Could he have been experiencing a tinge of regret for the near destruction of the Vermeer household as well as Griet's life caused by his orchestrations? Or do we all agree that he was far too narcissistic for such consideration? I vote for the latter-the mischief he created was an amusement for himself. I plan to see it again either tomorrow or Tuesday...gotta' catch it as many times as I can (as quickly as possible.....) I suspect it may not last long around this neck of the swamp with so many Oscar nominated films being revisited. Although, there were about 50-60 people at the first screening.

(Caribou)I just read a review last night in which the reviewer thinks that V sent the pearls to show that he was still interested in Griet and their relationship I saw GWAPE last evening with the DH and today with my Mom and Aunt. None of them had read the book. I asked each of them after the film what they think happened. First off, I gave a bit of background and little tidbits I thought they would need to help them understand what was going on (not about the ending though, I wanted to see what they thought). All three said if I had not filled in the blanks they would have been lost-at least on the first viewing. Now for their thoughts on the ending. All of them thought the earrings were sent by Catharina. They had not picked up on the fact that the earrings were wrapped in the blue cloth, nor the fact that the outer cloth was sealed with a glob of paint. I don't think Catharina would have sent the earrings wrapped in that manner. The problem is the time frame-would he have sent them in such an obviously short period of time (according to the film)? I also wondered about the Catharina/Vermeer marriage. I paid close attention to the conversation between Tanneke and Griet after she first arrives. When they see the furniture of the bankrupt neighbors being taken Tanneke passes a remark that I couldn't understand, but today I realized that it must be along the lines that Catharina would blow this out of proportion with Vermeer. Later that evening when T and G are having dinner you can hear the argument off camera between Vermeer and Catharina. She is arguing with him that she goes around in rags and there isn't enough money to...and so on. Tanneke gives Griet the 'I told you so' look. Tanneke then explains that a year ago things got so bad that Vermeer sold some of Catharina's jewels, and she was so angry that she tried to ruin a painting with a knife. She hadn't stepped foot in the studio from that day. Then Tanneke remarks that they both have a temper. I'm wondering now if that's why Vermeer seems so unmoved when Griet is hesitating about wearing the earrings. Could it be that he was quite used to his wife's outbursts? If she had almost ruined a painting the year before and never set foot in the studio since then maybe he thought that she would get over this too if she found out. I kind of got the impression, today that was the way of their marriage; sudden violent outbursts then calm, then another child. I just reread the last chapter of GWAPE to my three fellow movie goers. Gawd, I wish they had left the ending as it was in the book. I would have loved to see Catharina have to hand over those earrings because of the letter Vermeer wrote ten days before his death. Also would have loved to see Maria Thins explaining the scenario of Vermeer requesting the painting be brought back in the house while he was dying. I also liked Griets inner thoughts about Vermeeer in that last chapter-of how her heart would freeze when she would notice him at a distance during those ten years. Lastly, I hadn't noticed before today that you can hear Griet crying outside the door of Vermeer's studio while the camera focuses on him-and he turns his head so you know he hears it as well. Sold out last night and this afternoon.

(lindak)...the outer cloth was sealed with a glob of paint. I thought the cloth was sealed with wax, the same way letters were sealed during that period. When they see the furniture of the bankrupt neighbors being taken Tanneke passes a remark that I couldn't understand.... Can't remember her exact words but I remember Tanneke as warning Griet that any reference to, or example of money troubles was bound to put'young mistress' in a foul mood and was evidenced by the argument about money (or the lack thereof) between C. and Vermeer later that evening. Then we got the 'I told you so look' as Tanneke and Griet were eating dinner with the children. Could it be that he was quite used to his wife's outbursts? I also thought the relationship between Vermeer and C. was a complex one. Even though she couldn't understand his art, Vermeer seemed to display a genuine attraction (perhaps only sexual) towards his wife. There were a few instances of true physical heat between the two of them which lead me to believe that all those children were not borne solely out of a religious obligation to procreate.

(Linda) I hadn't noticed before today that you can hear Griet crying outside the door of Vermeer's studio while the camera focuses on him-and he turns his head so you know he hears it as well. I didn't hear it, but if that is so, per my recollection of the scene, the sound may not be matching the scene. At most I think she may have had a tear fall while standing there, though I didn't notice something like that either. My point is (and surprisingly there is one ;-P)... that I noticed one or 2 instances where the sound did not really match the "action" in the scene. It's been a month since I saw it last, but I believe one of the times I can think of offhand is when Griet takes in a breath when she discovers the tile broken...or when she takes in a breath in surprise at some point, her body language and expression are too subtle for the sound that was made. It seemed looped in. It has bothered me everytime (despite being sketchy at the moment about exactly where it is). Linda, did you give them the fill-in tidbits before or after they saw it? If they didn't know before, did they enjoy the movie anyway? I ask as Mari asked me right after I'd seen it at the first pre-release screenings whether someone who wasn't a Colin fan or an art afficionado (I think that was the choices) would like it. I said I thought many would be confused by the first 10-15 mins with the intro scenes as it seemed to zoom through the setup and background with Griet's family and intro to Vermeer's household. I thought the slow, deliberate pacing may be a bit much for some, too.

(Linda) I'm wondering now if that's why Vermeer seems so unmoved when Griet is hesitating about wearing the earrings. Could it be that he was quite used to his wife's outbursts? If she had almost ruined a painting the year before and never set foot in the studio since then maybe he thought that she would get over this too if she found out. I thought Vermeer was concerned solely about getting his composition perfect in his eyes and had no concern for his wife in that scenario.

(Dorine)...whether someone who wasn't a Colin fan or an art afficionado..would like it. Kimberly and I have had similar discussions. I am very curious as to how this film is playing with the general audiences. It seems my inherent bias as a CF fan, combined with the insights I gain here on the discussion boards, makes it very difficult for me to judge clearly. Is anyone out there even seeing the film aside from the fans and art afficionados? There have been good crowds in the theaters when I've gone, but then again, I'm in a fairly large metropolitan area populated by an abundance of 'art film types'. Unfortunately I'm not a good enough interpreter of the quoted income stats either as a means of getting a feel for this.

(Dorine)I didn't hear it, but if that is so, per my recollection of the scene, I thought I heard the soft crying last night. I really listened today, and because the theater was so quiet-(no one made a move the entire film) I definitely heard it and, then, at the same time you see Vermeer turn his head toward the door-as if he heard it too. (Dorine)I thought Vermeer was concerned solely about getting his composition perfect in his eyes and had no concern for his wife in that scenario. Exactly-he had no concern for his wife in this scenario, but I got the impression, after today, that he had been through this with her at one time or another in the past. (Dorine)Linda, did you give them the fill-in tidbits before or after they saw it? If they didn't know before, did they enjoy the movie anyway? The fill in tidbits were before they saw it--I did not fill in the book ending until afterward. I only wanted to give them a heads up of who VanR was and for them to look for certain things. I think my Mom and Aunt would have enjoyed it anyway...DH was lukewarm. He liked the book ending better after I explained it...still thinks TIOBE is Colin's best film;-)so how much stock you want to put into his assessment...I'll leave that up to you;-) But all three did say they would have been confused-not just about the ending-if I hadn't given them a mini-lesson on the way to the theater. I did notice the film not matching the sound during the broken tile scene.

(Dorine)...whether someone who wasn't a Colin fan or an art afficionado..would like it I saw it with the DH tonight! Will have to call theater tomorrow as it was fuzzy in spots but loved the supersized Vermeer v.v. much! Back to point, DH liked it. I asked about the ending and he said he was not confused. Thought that it could have been a short time since her leaving or a long time. Was not bothered about vagueness. (Linda)I definitely heard it and, then, at the same time you see Vermeer turn his head toward the door-as if he heard it too. Noticed this myself. V. touching scene. (Linda)Exactly-he had no concern for his wife in this scenario, but I got the impression, after today, that he had been through this with her at one time or another in the past. Re: It happened before. I felt this way too as he said that it would make her sick to see it as though this may have happend before. BTW, I thought he was AFG! Loved the costuming and thought the hair was v. appropriate for the period. Paid too much attention at first due to criticism but forgot about it very soon. Will love this DVD.

My DH is an academic type with a reasonable appreciation of art etc but he found it too slow. I really think the slow pacing is something you really need to be prepared for.

(Allison)but he found it too slow My DH used the exact phrase...too slow. Getting back to the last chapter in the book. Another reason that I dislike the vague ending. I had forgotten that Griet mentions in that chapter that Catharina gives birth on the floor of the studio that very day, and the child dies just after the christening. Not that we needed to see this, but there was so much more to tell that was left out.

(leslie)I've been thnking though, maybe there was a hint of remorse in his contemplation? Could he have been experiencing a tinge of regret . . I don't think VanRuijven was resmorseful in anyway. The character was, as you mentioned, very narcissistic . .he cared nothing for the welfare of the Vermeer family . . . If there was any remorse I think it might have been more for what he didn't get . .he had Griet's picture . .but unlike the maid in the red dress . .he never got to posess her physically. . .Perhaps regret that he did not get her when he had the chance? Leslie - I talked to my other friend, who saw GWAPE the evening before about her thoughts on the ending. She and her friend both thought She was at home, not too long after she left the Vermeer household . .perhaps only a few days. They believed the earrings were sent by Vermeer as a sort of acknowledgement of her importance/effect on him . .though maybe not neccisarily love . .my friend pointed out, Vermeer could not look at Griet as she left the studio, nor did he go to the studio door when he heard her crying outside it . .trapped by conventions. obligations . .who knows what, but he could not acknowledge her then . .but after she was gone, felt sent the earrings to do that. Dorine - re sound syncs/other observations I noticed that tile sync was a bit off, but I think Griet's heavy breathing was quite evident throughout the film, so I didn't think anything of it . . SJ had a cold perhaps during looping/filming? I heard her crying at the door of the studio and it also seemed to me that Vermeer turned a head b/c he heard it . . . . there was also that odd cap continuity thing in one scene(shows I've watched the film quite a bit) . . . . .when Griet goes to the meat market after the rumor starts she'll be in a painting . . . going to the market, she's got the cap with the square sides, inside talking to Pieter's father, the one with the pointy ends, then when she's w/ Peter right after back to the square one . .but that's neither here or there, just an observation;) (linda)I'm wondering now if that's why Vermeer seems so unmoved when Griet is hesitating about wearing the earrings. Well, many of Catharina's things were used in Vermeer's paintings and worn by the models . .(remember the yellow stole with the fur trim that was on the maniquin at the beginning of the film . .you see Catharina wearing it later on when she calls VanRuijven out from the courtyard (the near rape scene with Griet) . .even Catharina mentions that her jewels are always in the studio for him to paint . . .Vermeer doesn't think twice about it, I figure the models do and wear what he wants them to for the paintings . . he was the artist . .if you are to told wear the yellow stole or a pair of earrings, why should it matter . .it makes the picture complete and you are there to be silnet and sit. . .and I suspect probably no one (the models I mean)ever questioned him before.

(Kimberly) If there was any remorse I think it might have been more for what he didn't get . . Ah yes...I like your take. Makes more sense for him to be festering over not having had her in the flesh (as when they were interrupted in the courtyard). Also seems to tie in with the painting that was in the background on the wall - a very large image of a man kneeling at a woman's naked breast (I know this is a classic painting but cannot remember the citation - any art history majors out there??).

(Caribou)When I saw it, I thought someone, either C or V, sent them to her shortly aftershe went home because they didn't want the reminder around and that any hope of relationship was over. (Linda) All of them thought the earrings were sent by Catharina. Over C. dead body would she give those pearl earrings to Griet. She?d rather grind them. I would. (leslie) Is anyone out there even seeing the film aside from the fans and art afficionados That was a v. popular book with book discussion groups across the country . I asked when it played at my local museum and there obviously were 5 women who knew each other. So, you see, the film had a built-in audience before it opened. Lucky Lions Gate.

Saw it again this afternoon.... When G. is about to leave the house, she walks into the short hallway leading to the studio door. They cut to him at the easel and turning his head at that point,indicating he hears her footsteps coming to the door. He knows she's there before she cries.He continues to look at the door as she stands there and places her hand upon the door,as if she is about to push it further open. Then she sobs and a cut back to him still watching the door. Then the footsteps fade as she walks away with him still watching. The next cut is her turning her head over her shoulder to glance at the door once more, before entering the well-lit adjacent passageway.

I have to say I'm extremely perplexed and amazed that I saw this 6 times and caught everything in that scene except hearing and seeing her cry. I figured he turned toward the door as he intuitively knew she was out there or heard the floor creak as she walked by, then stopped.

(Screendaily) an enigmatic neighbour (Suvari), a psychoanalyst, a clairvoyant (Fricker), even his collection of ants. (Me) I don't understand why the reviews seem to think MS plays a psychoanalyst of some sort. Whoops, I just realized they were referring to a separate psychoanalyst, not MS as one. I think one other review did, though, as well as referring to her as some sort of caretaker, which I didn't get unless I missed something.

Suvari was described as the enigmatic neighbor...then there was a comma....psychoanalyst. And well....that does need to be discussed in spoilers! ;-D As I was posting my note about this 4 seconds before you, I'd have to say "Great minds.....!" (at the same time) ;-D

(Ev)Over C. dead body would she give those pearl earrings to Griet. She?d rather grind them. I would. That's my thinking. And she would never have wrapped them in the turbine fabric. DH thought they were from him which I mention here only because he has not read book so had no preconceptions and has saturated himself here in the Spoiler's topic;-) BTW, he didn't think it was too slow. He loved the developing details of the setting. Once again, mentioning this opinion from someone seeing this film as an entity standing alone.

(me)and has saturated himself here in the Spoiler's topic;-) LOL!! He has not saturated himself because I would never let him into Drool! It's mine, all mine......

oops, got too bold here;-)

(Dorine) I think one other review did, though, as well as referring to her as some sort of caretaker, which I didn't get unless I missed something. Oh! I remember (vaguely) that review. The only thing I can think of is that at one time Ben sees Mena 'laying hands' on that older gentleman (and maybe the reviewer made an assumption that she was a caretaker a la Mandy...but NOT!). I couldn't figure out where she was when Ben saw her (and he waved to her and she waved back and then put her hands on the older gentleman's shoulders again). It looked to be a university, but could have been a hospital. Do you remember that Dorine? First shot showed Ben walking across a lawn in front of a large building....

Yes, that's what I was thinking of. Thought it was a park. Didn't notice any building types. Were those columms or trees he sees her through? If columns, where would they be? Weren't they walking through a park with a field and/or ballpark at some point after? By that fence?

(Dorine) If columns, where would they be? Weren't they walking through a park with a field and/or ballpark at some point after? By that fence? Ben walked across a lawn (behind him was a large building). When he crosses that, he sees Charlotte (between trees/bushes) and he waves to her. I originally thought the building behind Ben might be a university...but could be just a park with a large residence on it.... The other park was near the church where they went to see the clairvoyant....looked like a soccer pitch, but it was dark so hard to tell.

(Tress) I originally thought the building behind Ben might be a university...but could be just a park with a large residence on it.... Or a monument building of some sort. Would think there would have been more student types around. And right, remember the park being after the first church visit. On a general note, this must be confusing to have 2 films discussed at once, esp if people want to read about GWAPE, but not Trauma.

(Dorine)On a general note, this must be confusing to have 2 films discussed at once, esp if people want to read about GWAPE, but not Trauma Please don't stop discussing T. I have no problem juggling Ben and Vermeer. LOL, conjures up all sorts of things.

I won't, just noting it may be a bit challenging to weed out for those who want to read about GWAPE only.

(Tress)Ben sees Mena 'laying hands' on that older gentleman Interesting . .wonder if Mena's character is also a Reiki practitioner . .it would fall into the new-agey character she seems to be;) (Speak from experience . .am a Level III Usui Reiki practioner myself. . . .and often describe it to people as a type of "laying on of hands")

(Kimberly) (Speak from experience . .am a Level III Usui Reiki practioner myself. . . .and often describe it to people as a type of "laying on of hands") Charlotte does the same thing later in the film to Ben. He's having one of his breakdowns and is crying...it is a very nicely shot scene. She is behind him and they're both facing the camera (but a bit off to the side and at an angle). She's laying hands on him. First his head, then she moves to his shoulders.....then (and I'm guessing this might be where your practice differs from hers), she moves in front of him (he's crying). She goes on her knees between his legs and lays her hands on his thighs. Then she moves them to his knees. This is the scene were he grabs at her hands....not a sudden grab, but desperate and he entwines his fingers with hers and pulls her toward him (still upset and crying) and then she hugs him. V. v. sad. Not erotic at all, but he's so desperate for a connection (IMO). He begins to kiss her and she responds....and it gets a bit frantic at that point. They end up on the floor kissing with her on top of him. He then freaks out, pulls away and moves his fists to his fore ead....she hovers over him for a second and then goes down to his chest and hugs him (laying on top of him)...not squishing him as she is soooooo wee! Tiny thing that she is! Liked this scene.....you kind of cringe at first, hoping it isn't going to 'go there' as it would be a bad bad thing for Ben (and Charlotte). But she ends up comforting him (in a way...).

(Dorine)On a general note, this must be confusing to have 2 films discussed at once, esp if people want to read about GWAPE, but not Trauma (Linda)Please don't stop discussing T. I have no problem juggling Ben and Vermeer. LOL, conjures up all sorts of things. I agree! Please don't stop. We're.......um, I'm smart enough and love a challenge. It's fun to go to spoilers and name that film in a few words;-)) We *hinterland* people need the excitement.

I won't, just noting it may be a bit challenging to weed out for those who want to read about GWAPE only. That's their problem. I'm always more interested in the film I haven't seen yet....anyway. Keep going....

(Kimberly) (Speak from experience . .am a Level III Usui Reiki practioner myself. . . .and often describe it to people as a type of "laying on of hands") (Tress)Charlotte does the same thing later in the film to Ben. From your description I'd say yep . .sounds like a Reiki practitioner to me . . . fabulous!!! I'm assuming Ben is sitting in a chair . .I mostly like for people to lie down so they can be truly relaxed . .Reiki can be given any way . .. .start at the head and move down . .kind of hitting all of the chakras . .there are various hand positions around the head and shoulders. .am curious to see what she does;) . . . Reiki also has been known to not only phyically relax, but is also attributed to emotion healing as well . . .I've heard stories of clients opening up emotionally during sessions, much like Ben's reaction in the film Awww lovely spoiler Tress . . . makes me want to hug him and make him feel all better!

(Kimberly) I'm assuming Ben is sitting in a chair . . Yes. Sitting down (so was the older gentleman) (Kimberly) . . .there are various hand positions around the head and shoulders. .am curious to see what she does;) . . . Forgot the bit about her putting her hands on his chest after his shoulders...I just figured she wanted to have a good feel! ;-D (Kimberly) I've heard stories of clients opening up emotionally during sessions, much like Ben's reaction in the film He was blabbing away at that point (talking and crying...a good cry too). I think he was talking about his wife, but he may have been upset about the investigation into the pop stars death...could have been a combo of the two...he had many 'breakdowns' in this film of various degrees, but at that point he seemed especially vulnerable. (Kimberly) Awww lovely spoiler Tress . . . makes me want to hug him and make him feel all better! Or better yet, "lay your hands" on him! ;-D

(Tress)Or better yet, "lay your hands" on him! ;-D From your lips to . . .well . . .his ears:)

(Tress)...I just figured she wanted to have a good feel! Well, hell, yeah! (Tress)He begins to kiss her and she responds....and it gets a bit frantic at that point. They end up on the floor kissing with her on top of him. Crikey! I don't have time to go back and read the early posts on T. but were you holdin out us? I need to see this, Now!

You can relax. It's not as exciting or erotic as you think. He's in a v. fragile state of mind and is just trying to connect with anyone.

(Dorine) It's not as exciting or erotic as you think. He's in a v. fragile state of mind and is just trying to connect with anyone. Heh, heh, heh,.... It might as well be Linda;-)

I just realized the pic from Trauma that Tress posted on the news topic is from the scene where he starts going through a picture album with Charlotte. The way they're sitting, tilting heads, and her draping her arm around him mirrors the pictures in the album of he and Elisa. The picture looks so dark, but the actual scene was lit rather brightly. He also was sitting on the floor in an adorable manner before moving to the couch next to Charlotte. I have a picture from the Burns Q&A where he sits a little similar.

(Evelyn)It might as well be Linda;-) You took the words right out of my mouth. Thanks for helping me dream. (Dorine)It's not as exciting or erotic as you think Yeah, but I'm doing the thinking;-)

I saw GWAPE for the second time last night. How different was this viewing from the first one! There were no distractions, meaning no Colin sitting at a distance to disturb my concentration like last time. The distraction of a large crowd would've been welcome though, unfortunately only 6 of us were sitting in the theatre. Oh well, it was the latest showing, an arthouse movie, what did I expect? People fighting for seats? :-) Fat chance. I started tingling all over the moment I heard the very first notes of that lovely music again, and kept tingling the whole time, especially when YKW was on the screen. Long hair or not, he was AFG in this one. Loved the hair, the stubbles, the eyes, oh those deep, penetrating eyes, and every time his hands made an appearance I forgot about everything else. At this second viewing I realised how very different the movie from the book is. It didn't seem that much so the first time, since I had my head in the clouds at the time, but now it struck me that so many things were changed. Little changes, most of them, but they tansform the feel of the story entirely. So it's almost like a different story with almost the same characters, but not quite. I liked this version of the book, for the look of it, the feel of it, but still grieved over the missing of the veggie scene at the beginning, and agonized over the weird ending. I never noticed before the look Griet gives to Vermeer (or the Vermeers?) as she is ordered out of the house. Is it a look of How-could-you? or Go-to-hell, or both? That look of absolute disappointment on her face in my opinion made the ending practically meaningless. I felt that whatever she felt for him was erased with his betrayal - for lack of a better word. Yes, the way he just stood there as she was ordered out felt like he abandoned her, just left her to her fate knowing very well that she had absolutely no control over what was done by using her. She was but a pawn in this 'game', she was used and then discarded like an unwanted piece of .... anything, so what would the pair of earrings that brought her nothing that humiliation mean to her? Why did he send it? It made perfect sense for me in the book, but not in the movie. The thing I liked in this one though that Pieter got a bit better treatment here than in the book. She seemed to genuinely care for him as the story progressed, judging by the tender kiss and nose rubbing she bestowed upon him, and she seemed to enjoy losing her virginity with him more than what I got out of the book. Tanneke was a strange one in the book, quite moody, but I liked that she was nice to Griet in the movie. I loved this actress the moment I saw her. I thought she looked like Tanneke so much, it made me grin. I still disliked Maria Thins, although I realised that since they made Tanneke nice somebody had to give Griet a hard time aside from Catharina. So I liked Thins in the book and not Tanneke, and in the movie it was the other way around. Something for something I guess. Catharina I hated at firt viewing, funny how comfortable I felt with her this time. After looking at pics from the movie I got used to her strange face maybe... I thought Colin and Scarlett had great chemistry. I found myself holding my breath every time they were together. Their almost-but-not-quite touching made me want to scream with frustration, and I didn't get that from the book. Not quite anyway. That was a different feeling and I like that too. The one thing that really got to me in the movie, that special moment that really grabbed at my heart (or was it other part of my body?) was when he asked her to lick her lips. He said it twice sounding like the painter, but the third time was for him, and it sounded (to me) almost like a plea. He hesitated before he said "again", and his voice changed a bit, not to mention his face. For the first time I cursed the cameraman for the close up of his face, it was so big on the screen that my eyes couldn't grab his whole expression all at once, they darted from his pleading eyes to his lips, then again to his smug eyes as she obliged him. Oh what a moment! I can't wait to see it on the DVD. At which point I will probably curse the cameraman again for cutting the top of Colin's head and lovely chin off. :-) One question I have for the art lovers here: Does anyone know whose work is the painting behind Van Ruijven as he is sitting in his private cabin at the end, looking at Griet's painting? It's the "naughty" one where a half naked man seems to lean over a woman's exposed breast. It was rather blurred in the movie, but I thought that's what I saw. Anybody knows?

(Ildi) She seemed to genuinely care for him as the story progressed, judging by the tender kiss and nose rubbing she bestowed upon him, and she seemed to enjoy losing her virginity with him more than what I got out of the book. Had my third viewing today....(was noticing more this time around too....first time, ODB was there for distraction (kept peeking over at him to see him react to scenes) and second time Dorine fed me too many martinis ;-D). Anyhoo....did you notice that after she lost her virginity to Pieter, she rubs her thumb across his bottom lip before she leaves him? Just as Vermeer had done to her earlier after he had pierced her ear....nice touch! Also noticed this time that when Catarina has her freak out when she sees the painting, there is that moment when she asks Vermeer...."why don't you paint me??" and he responds "because you don't understand" and then she comes back with "and she does??!" ...Vermeer looks up at her with this look and there is a slight acknowledgement. A very small nod or head movement and then Catarine becomes hysterical again....well done on all their parts right there. Heard the crying through the door at the studio as Griet leaves. Believe he heard it too, his head turns in that direction and you see a look on his face.....like he wants to go to her but knows he can't. Pitiful (but again...so well done!). Love this film....and it is playing a mile from my house (just opened there on Friday after playing for a week at the art house downtown...still on two screens there). I have a big ol' Johannes carrot to contend with for the next few weeks. We'll see how many times I get "caught his his web!" (Ildi) He said it twice sounding like the painter, but the third time was for him, and it sounded (to me) almost like a plea. He hesitated before he said "again", and his voice changed a bit, not to mention his face. YES! That third time was a bit pervy, really! Liked it. He sounded a bit 'strained'? Desperate? Something. Her face changed too! Did you notice that? The first couple of times, she looked embarrassed or frustrated. As if she didn't want to do it. The third time, her expression relaxed and she seemed to know what it was he needed (as if she came to terms with it....). Was interesting.

Great observations Tress! It's just like me that I didn't notice those reactions about Griet, it was 2nd viewing, and still I had no eyes for other than Master Vermeer. :-) Thank you for pointing them out, I'll pay more attention to her next time. One more thing that struck me as I was watching, and I wonder if others had this experience. I haven't seen most of Colin's older movies, and the thing is that he doesn't laugh much in the new ones. In almost everything I saw him he is always either serious or just smiles. It's not often that he shows his 'pearly whites'. And whenever he does it's a bit of a shock to me, because his face changes so much at those times. It's almost like the man has two faces. The difference between his serious and toothy face is absolutely startling, and it throws me every time. I was watching GWAPE, and he sold me the character right away. I was perfectly comfortable with his face, voice, etc. Not for a moment I doubted him, thought he was wearing a wig and walking around in a costume. He seemed perfectly natural to me in that setting. And you know how it is, when you are watching a movie you find yourself in that time period, you feel its atmosphere, it's quite a magical feeling. And I was totally absorbed in it as I was watching. Then the scene with the camera obscura came, and Griet asked how the painting got into the box, and he laughed. His eyes lit up, dimples appeared and his teeth made an appearance, and I suddenly felt I've been thrown out of my cosy feeling, the 17th century disappeared, and I suddenly found myself watching Colin in a wig. Then he went back to just smiling and brooding, and within a few seconds I was back again, feeling cosy and comfy. This happened to me before, watching WAGW, he flashed his teeth for a few secs as Daphne was modelling an outfit, but that didn't unsettle me as much as the one in GWAPE. Then there was the toothy grin in P&P, and I took a double take - along with everybody else (including most characters in the movie :-) I think) -, but that was different. It was just 'out of character' for him to laugh. But it wasn't so for Vermeer. Maybe it's because I see him laugh so rarely that I have this reaction. I've gotta find a movie of his with lots of laughs, so I can 'train' my eyes to see his 'second' face the same way they do his 'first' one. Love both of then though. :-)

(Ildi)I've gotta find a movie of his with lots of laughs, To keep his smile from *spoiling* ..(used that to keep me in this topic when I should be in Firthology)* your viewing pleasure I would watch Valmont or Relative Values which are easy to get if you don't have em already.

(Tress)YES! That third time was a bit pervy, really! Liked it. He sounded a bit 'strained'? Almost like the words have died in his throat-or the voice of someone who has just walked a lifetime through the desert with no water. I think the desperation in his voice is a mirror of what his life had been to that point. I often think of Vermeer as being initiated into feelings of passion just as much as Griet. I know she is the muse, but I'm not so sure that just because they have several children that there is much passion in the Vermeer household. We do get the impression that he discards Griet after the paining is finished, but what choice did he have-he had to let her go, but I do believe that Griet ignites in him feelings that are much deeper than what he has ever shared with Catharina. Think of what life in that household must have been like for him all those years before Griet. No wonder he painted so slowly-where was the motivation? Catharina? Maria Thins? Sneaky Cornelia?

Loved reading your thoughts and feelings after additional viewings of GWAPE. One of the scenes that made Griet's feelings crystal clear for me was when she was hanging the laundry and Tanneke is also outside and (if I remember correctly) there is a commotion in the house and Tanneke tells Griet that Catharina is pregnant. Griet response is something like "What again, so soon". But it was the look on her face that really told the truth. You almost got the feeling that she was thinking "he cheated on me" or "how could he still have feelings for her". Griet looked like she really had the wind knocked out of her then.

(Gail) You almost got the feeling that she was thinking "he cheated on me" or "how could he still have feelings for her". Griet looked like she really had the wind knocked out of her then. Love that scene....so many emotions play on her face! And then Tanneke starts to pick her ears with a piece of straw or something....and watches and watches and....you can see she is searching Griet's face for her reaction. Then she says something like "Men. What are you going to do?" While still looking intently at Griet. I know I was just talking about GWAPE, but look what I just found...the cutest little Trauma spider!

(Tress) And then Tanneke starts to pick her ears with a piece of straw or something.... Yeah, first she cleaned under her nails with the straw, then stuck it in her ear. Lovely! LOL! And the way she said "Men. What are you going to do?" you'd think it's all men's fault that women get pregnant. I hate spiders, Tress, but that's a cute one indeed. :-) (Gail) Griet response is something like "What again, so soon". But it was the look on her face that really told the truth. You almost got the feeling that she was thinking "he cheated on me" or "how could he still have feelings for her". I felt so sorry for her. What a disappointment that must have been for her, and many more were coming. So young, naive, infatuated. I don't cry watching movies often, but this one got to me.

(Ildi) I felt so sorry for her. What a disappointment that must have been for her, and many more were coming. So young, naive, infatuated. Yeah...and Johannes didn't help matters much. She was just a child, he was a grown (married) man and knew better. He manipulated many situations to serve his own needs. Still am confused why the hired a wet nurse. It cost them more in food and her wage.....and if Catarina had nursed the baby herself, it may have kept her from getting pregnant again so soon. I'm guessing it was a status thing and they did it to keep up appearances.....

(Ildi) I felt so sorry for her. What a disappointment that must have been for her, and many more were coming. So young, naive, infatuated. (Tress)Yeah...and Johannes didn't help matters much. She was just a child, he was a grown (married) man and knew better. He manipulated many situations to serve his own needs. I guess it is further proof that no matter how much things change they remain the same. People get their hearts broken, people manipulate each other, and sometimes even the stongest attraction is impossible. Ahhhh, this was a very good movie.

Still am confused why the hired a wet nurse. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that in the book it was explained that Catherine WANTED to get pregnant so often, and deliberately used a wet nurse so that breast-feeding wouldn't hinder her fertility. She saw her pregnancies as being a positive, not a negative, possibly reasoning that each pregnancy bonded Vermeer ever more closely to her.

On the topic of wet nurses, if I'm not mistaken, it was also a status thing (to be able to afford someone to nurse your baby) and Catherina seemed to me (in the book, not seen the film yet :-( ) to aspire to higher status than the family could afford. I also suspect that she enjoyed being the center of attention and playing the suffering martyr while she was pregnant. Just my opinion, of course ;-)

(Ethine)I also suspect that she enjoyed being the center of attention and playing the suffering martyr while she was pregnant. Just my opinion, of course ;-) I think you hit the nail right on the head on both counts. Lack of finances were a sore spot with her. Just another random thought about the manipulation of Griet by Vermeer. I now look back at the scene where he is fondling Cathrina while Griet looks on, and realize he was doing it double barrel. He had to keep Catharina happy in more ways than one so as to stop her sniffing around, and by making Griet a bit jealous she was even more vulnerable. In that scene, the look on his face is very smug. He knows exactly what he's doing to the two of them at the same time.

(Linda) the look on his face is very smug. He knows exactly what he's doing to the two of them at the same time. I always felt that way, too- I thought there was actually an instant where the camera caught him looking sideways at Griet passing through the room while he was fondling Catharina.

(Bonnie) I thought there was actually an instant where the camera caught him looking sideways at Griet passing through the room while he was fondling Catharina. And did you notice how he was doing it? Getting a quick feel. I didn't notice the exact placement of his hands until the second viewing (then confirmed in the third ;-)). He's got his hands right on her...well...and he's doing a little rubbing thing.....no wonder Griet had that look. I'd be pretty surprised to witness that in someone I didn't like....let alone someone that I was having some feelings for.....

(Tress)no wonder Griet had that look. I'd be pretty surprised to witness that in someone I didn't like....let alone someone that I was having some feelings for..... Didn't she say that she had to deal with her own jealous feelings...because she was so immersed in the role, yeah, righ;-)

No, no, no, those feelings were directed at Colin *as the *Vermeer* character*. Try to keep that straight, would ya? ;-D

Had my fourth GWAPE viewing yesterday. Was noticing little things (and please excuse if they have been mentioned before�) Still love the scene where Griet comes in and asks Catarina if it is okay to clean the windows. Right before Griet comes in, you see Maria Thins fussing with Catarina�s hair and C slaps MT�s hands out of the way. Temper, temper�.anyway, when Griet asks the question, I was watching MT this time. She seems stunned and then�almost pleased. It is odd. She seems to recognize what this means and then glances at Catarina for her response. Of course C is irked. As she realizes that it never occurred to her to even think about the light. The scene were Johannes asks Catarina to wear her pearls has made me giggle the last two times. He says �Wear these� and walks toward Catarina sitting on the bed. He hands her first one pearl earring and then, when he hands her the second one, he does this �Carson� thing (from Queer Eye). He hands it to her with pinkie up and then does this little hand stroke/wave as he sets it down. Very funny. Then he sits and watches her put the first earring in. Catarina is giving him a very flirty look and shakes her head (looking very coy). He is looking at her with what I think she perceives as �love� when he is actually using his painter�s eye. He almost immediately (after she shakes her head) says �Griet, look here, notice how the earring draws your eye to the curve of the neck� and then Catarina freaks out (when does she not?). �JAN!� and Griet looks to floor, curtseys and runs out of the room. MT sitting there watching all this go down�.love that scene. Where�s the missing scene??? Okay�.have been wanting to know what Van R and Johannes were saying to one another. When Griet first learns that she is to be painted, Van R makes all sorts of rude remarks (and Johannes just glares at him several times�.). The remark about �I hear you are of use to your master�.all that grinding and stirring. An old tale, isn�t it, the one of master and maid?� and then Vermeer just glares at him. Wot did he say to Van R when they were alone? �Can�t have her, I want her?� Because later, when Van R meets up with Griet by the wash, he says something like �still ripe as a plumb, what�s he playing at?� It is as if there was an understanding between Vermeer and Van R. That Van R couldn�t have her because Vermeer was interested???? And then Van R thought he could have her �afterwards� (the remark about �don�t tell him about this or he won�t be interested any longer� or some such thing he said after he tore Griets dress???)�.am most interested in what was being said between hose two men. I would have thought that Vermeer would not have given Van R the info about the paint grinding (seems a bit too �personal� ;-)). The �lick your lips� scene. This time I noticed that prior to the third request, you can hear some of the children running down the hallway and yelling (playing some game). You see Griet�s eyes go toward the door and then she looks back at Vermeer. He looks �resigned� for a second??? Then asks her to lick her lips for the final time (in that strained, begging sort of way) and she does so with a look of understanding. Then�.there is an ever so slight smile given by both Vermeer and Griet (like this is their little secret). So well done. Okay�and the final scene. Someone said that they thought it was Griet�s parents home. I don�t know if it is. Same windows (could be a window maker in town) but different floors. Griet�s parents have plank flooring�the home at the end has concrete or something�.Also�white dress is hanging up. I take that to mean it is a wedding gown (either to be worn or already worn). All this my interpretation as I liked Pieter and still want the two of them together at the end. I cannot imagine someone of Griet�s position having a white dress for any reason other than a wedding�it wouldn�t make much sense. Would get filthy. Am done�have gone on too long again�.sorry.

(Tress) ...have gone on too long again... There's no such thing Tress, I enjoyed reading all of it. I dunno when I can see it again, have to aim for next weekend ...maybe. Until then, I get my fix from these posts. So please keep it coming! Joanna Scanlon wrote in her funny piece that she giggled at the "things that slipped through the net". I wonder what those things were, so next time I'll try to pay more attention to her scenes to see what shouldn't have been there.

Apparently when I went to see it my companion noted that the Camera Obscura had a crosshead screw in it! Very Dutch of that period! ;-) They thought it a very poor oversight. Personally I haven't got past Vermeer in that scene. Enjoying your posts ladies and trying frantically to catch up.

(Tress)I would have thought that Vermeer would not have given Van R the info about the paint grinding Glad you brought that up. That scene always puzzles me. I find it hard to believe that Vermeer would confide in VanR concerning Griet. I could never figure out why VanR brings up the "ripe as a plumb" remark when he's attacking Griet. Or the line... "Not a word, or he'll never look at you, again". It really does seem as thought something was edited between Vermeer and VanR. (Tress)He almost immediately (after she shakes her head) says �Griet, look here, notice how the earring draws your eye to the curve of the neck� Yes, if the cat was ever let out of the bag it was there. He reminds me of a teacher using a visual aid with a student. LOL, except the visual was an already jealous and suspicious wife.

(Tress)I would have thought that Vermeer would not have given Van R the info about the paint grinding I wonder if Van R doesn't try to convince Vermeer to let him have Griet as a servent in his house. (At dinner, Van R asks "Can I haver her?") Vermeer probably has explained to him how invaluable she is to his work.

I think that comment means "have" in a sexual sense, he intends to use Griet as the previous servant that became pregnant by him. He and Vermeer are bargaining, in a sense Vermeer has no choice, without coming to some agreement he will lose Van R's patronage.

2/15/04 - Just saw GWAPE. My eyes and mind are still swirling with the images and sounds of Delft in the 1600s. What a beautiful film, and how well it imagined life in that place and time. The tension in the household - mostly sensual, was as palpable as the dishes on the table and the meat in the market. And that face of Greit's. So young, the pouting lips and the upward glances, the bright, unspoiled child - no wonder Vermeer was besotted with her. No one else in the household, from matriarch mother in law to seething wife, to jealous child, was free of anger and unhappiness. I thought the lines (Cillian Murphy?) about not getting caught in his web told so much about Vermeer and how he affected everyone around him. He was a bit of a monster himself, and in the end, only interested in what he could get from Greit. I thought Essie Davis was excellent. She had a real old-fashioned Dutch face. It is a shame her husband never painted her. Judy Parfit and Tom Wilkinson also stood out among the cast. Colin got to once again play "the watcher" in a film. He observed and recorded.You saw Greit through his eyes, and that made her a memorable and mesmerizing object to paint. She was finally only that - an object to get on canvas - while her youth and beauty still remained. I thought the final scene of her unwrapping the pearls was full of irony and sadness. She had been paid off and could now be forgotten - except for the gift Vermeer had already given her - her image on canvas for the world to see.

(Lizza)I think that comment means "have" in a sexual sense, he intends to use Griet as the previous servant that became pregnant by him. He and Vermeer are bargaining, in a sense Vermeer has no choice, without coming to some agreement I think that is a great observation, and in thinking of it in this way I think I finally get it. Maybe Vermeer does confide in VanR that he has feelings for Griet so that VanR will keep his hands off her, (so that she doesn't end up pregnant like the last one) but VanR, in attacking Griet, may have realized that too..."what's he playing at"? Or, could be that Vermeer does have feelings for her beyond the muse aspect and he can't bear to think that someone else would have her so VanR keeping his hands off her may have been part of the agreement. In the book isn't there mention by Griet that Vermeer seems angry with her after Peter has come to the house?

(Tress) ...have gone on too long again... Nevah! (Ildi)I wonder what those things were, One thing that gets on my nerves is that after VanR grabs her at the banquet table and she drops the plates she picks up broken pieces which are whole at end of scene. (Tress)He almost immediately (after she shakes her head) says �Griet, look here, notice how the earring draws your eye to the curve of the neck� (Linda)Yes, if the cat was ever let out of the bag it was there. He reminds me of a teacher using a visual aid with a student. LOL, except the visual was an already jealous and suspicious wife. I thought that this scene shows perfectly how totally absorbed he is in his *art*, to the exclusion of judgement and anyone else, that he could slip in this huge way.

Just got back from my first wonderful GWAPE viewing. Had it been playing again after I would have sat through a few more times. So many impressions...When Griet first goes to VanR's and he is talking about the red dress in the picture and could she imagine herself in that finery, the very next scene has Tanneke buttering chickens... (Tress)He is looking at her with what I think she perceives as �love� when he is actually using his painter�s eye. He almost immediately (after she shakes her head) says �Griet, look here, notice how the earring draws your eye to the curve of the neck� and then Catarina freaks out (when does she not?). �JAN!� and Griet looks to floor, curtseys and runs out of the room. MT sitting there watching all this go down My first thought was of him saying, "Oops! Did I say that out loud?" :-) I think Griet and I attended the same (now defunct) School for Daydreamy Housekeepers/Maids...Man, she couldn't keep her eye on the task at hand for one minute, no wonder she could describe the color of the clouds so well, her head was right up in them..A girl after my own heart (and in this movie, pretty literally as far as JV went!)

(BeeDee) One thing that gets on my nerves is that after VanR grabs her at the banquet table and she drops the plates she picks up broken pieces which are whole at end of scene. That's a good one, I never noticed. I seem to have eyes only for Master Vermeer, I'm afraid. :-) You could post that on IMDb among the GWAPE goofs, if you are interested in doing that sort of thing. I love reading those. I'm always amazed at the things people pick up in movies. (Mary) I thought Essie Davis was excellent. She had a real old-fashioned Dutch face. It is a shame her husband never painted her. I don't know if Mrs. Vermeer looked anything like ED, but maybe he did paint her. This is one of my fave Vermeers. Look at her hairstyle, I believe ED's was done the same way in one of the scenes. I loved that.

(Dorine) While I found MS ok for her role as a calm, spiritual person, she's not the most exciting. I found Marc Evan's remark about MS very interesting. When she said "she's quite angelic, don't you think?". I actually had thought at one point that this film would be like Jacob's Ladder. Where the main character is already dead and is being lead through a series of tests....so I thought, for a while, that MS would be an angel. She was so often in the light colors (the scene at the reenactment were Ben saw her from a distance was really interesting). So I think she was supposed to be a bit ethereal...maybe to make viewers wonder?? Had I been on the ball a bit more when we talked to ME, I would have asked him about that.... (Dorine) They had a growing friendship of sorts, that Ben acted on physically to some degree as a way to connect to another human being, not to further a romance in the classic sense. Definitely. And she seemed willing to comfort him and I don't think she was looking for a romantic connection either. She seemed to sense that he needed that from her. About the loud noises...the ones I noticed were both 'musical' moments. The time when he was downstairs (in the morgue) and he spots himself in the mirror. The music got really loud and then stopped abruptly...also the scene right after his 'hospital hallucination'. As he as he slams the door behind him and we see him standing in his room...music/slam is v. loud and again, ends suddenly. I think both moments where meant to make you 'jump in your seat', but it was more jarring than scary. Sorry if I'm not making sense, I know I often don't, but I have cold medication helping out today....

also the scene right after his 'hospital hallucination'. As he as he slams the door behind him and we see him standing in his room...music/slam is v. loud and again, ends suddenly Yes! That whole bit was increasingly loud. The time when he was downstairs (in the morgue) and he spots himself in the mirror. That one didn't particularly strike me like the other. When she said noises, I was thinking crashes or screams, or something else. And there really wasn't any of that (except for that scream at the end of the hospital bit). (Tress) When she said "she's quite angelic, don't you think?". Actually she means he said, Marc Evans about MS, during our "interview." Not she said, as in the author. Get that or did I make it worse. ;-) Just in case anyone would wonder.

(Tress) She was so often in the light colors (the scene at the reenactment were Ben saw her from a distance was really interesting). Yes, in the white coat with the umbrella. Pictures of her in that outfit are out there somewhere.

Thanks Tress and Dorine, I love hearing about Trauma-I long for it. Now for a last bit on GWAPE. I saw it for the 7th time on Friday and just wanted to add a few more thoughts. I'm hoping to see it once more before it leaves--just for pure enjoyment. Just a few thoughts on the look of bewilderment that Vermeer has in the "you looked inside, me" scene. He gets that same slight-what the hell are you thinking-look when Griet brushes her fingers to his when he hands her the pot to be filled with lead white. Makes you wonder if he was wondering what she was playing at, or was it a shock wave of sexual pleasure that went through him? He gets the same confused look when she pulls away from him when he's showing her how to use the mullet. Looks like he's confused as to why she would act that way (if of course you come from the point of view that she was simply the muse of the moment) More incredulous looks: Great one from Catharina when Vermeer discusses the sleeping arrangements that bring Griet to the attic. Catharina has this startled look--like whenever did he involve himself in the workings of household. I really paid attention to that scene this time. I like the way he tosses the key to the studio on the table in front of her as bait.(She hadn't been allowed in there for over a year prior to that)Let Griet sleep in the attic, and you now hold the key. He gets the same look in his eyes when he's fondling her at the piano--to bait Griet. Also, after the ear piercing scene, notice how when he sits at the easel he has a content look about him as he tells Griet to turn her head and look at him. (almost contrite)His earlier frustration is gone-no more banging the brushes about like when he wanted her to uncover her head. Now his demeanor is content almost like sexual frustration is replaced with sexual satisfaction. As if the ear piercing was a sexual encounter for him as well as for Griet-except he had the afterglow and she needed release. Lastly, Griet's defiant look as she is told to leave the house, I think is first directed to Vermeer and not Catharina-at least not until she begins to walk out of the room. You can see her eyes shift from far right (where Vermeer is standing) to upward toward Catharina as she begins to move out of the room. As you can see I can't make up my mind as to what Vermeer was thinking. I go back and forth constantly as to what was really going on. Listening to Colin's interview in Italian makes me realize that he truly succeeded in making a mystery out of Vermeer's character.

(Linda) Just a few thoughts on the look of bewilderment that Vermeer has in the "you looked inside, me" scene. He gets that same slight-what the hell are you thinking-look when Griet brushes her fingers to his when he hands her the pot to be filled with lead white. Makes you wonder if he was wondering what she was playing at, or was it a shock wave of sexual pleasure that went through him? To me it seemed that as their fingers brushed, the bewilderment on his face was because he felt an electric jolt just like Griet did, and he couldn't believe it. When Griet said "you looked inside me" I thought a similar look was there because of what she said, it seemed sort of hit him. (Linda) As you can see I can't make up my mind as to what Vermeer was thinking. I go back and forth constantly as to what was really going on. I have made up my mind, he wanted her, and he wanted to make the painting perfect, for he had to paint her. He didn't have a choice. I didn't feel he was playing her for a moment. I felt he wanted her, and he himself was bewildered by his own feelings. And he had feelings for her, that cannot be denied. The way he turned the house upside down to find the comb, the way he abruptly stood up at the dinner table when VR 'suggested' that he paints her, the way she held her for a moment after the piercing... He wanted her, and he was fighting it, but couldn't help himself at certain times. He seemed taken aback by his own feelings, and knew he could do nothing. I could see the feeling of powerlessness, the frustration on his face and in his movements, the way he sort of pushed Catharina away after he took the knife from her. That was an incredibly strong scene, I felt for him, and for Griet as she walked out after giving him the 'how could you' look. "In his eyes I thought I could see regret." (Tracy C.) Yes, that's exactly what I saw on his face as he sat at the easel at the end, knowing Griet was out there. He wanted her, and used her, and he knew it. I thought he sent her the earrings as a way of letting her know that she did indeed meant something to him. That's why her eyes filled up as she stood there with the earrings in the bundle. Yes I know, this is not what I posted last time, but my feelings changed with this viewing. I wonder if the next one would make me rethink my position once again. As Linda said, Colin did succeed in making a mystery out of Vermeer's character. And so did Tracy C. I read the book several times before I made up my mind about my feelings. Few more observations. Tress and Gail 'talked' about the scene where Tanneke tells Griet that mistress is pregnant, and watches her reaction. I saw what brought that on. In a previous scene where it was decided that Tanneke is allowed to sleep in the cellar and Griet will be moved up to the attic we see Tanneke's relieved look, and the relief turning into bewilderment as she sees Griet's face. The girl was putting folded clothes away, and when she heard the decision that was made she started moving about fast with a happy smile on her face. That was when Tanneke started to get suspicious, and Griet's reaction to the pregnancy news confirmed her feelings. The music. Oh the wonderful music that I can't get out of my head! The more I see/hear it the more I feel that it is an absolute injustice that it was not nominated for an Oscar. If there was ever a score that could enhance a movie that really didn't need any enhancing, turning it from beautiful into absolutely breathtaking, this is it! I swear it has a life of its own. It's perfect. However, I wondered at one point in the movie if they forgot to put music there, and it was an important part for me: when Griet sees her painting and says "You looked inside me". He takes off the covering, Griet moves close to see it and....., this part screamed for music IMO. I wanted to hear it so badly, but there wasn't even a single note there. I wonder about that. Anybody else felt that way?

(Ildi) the way he sort of pushed Catharina away after he took the knife from her. In that scene, I noticed that after he pushed the knife out of Catarina's hand, he seemed ready to comfort her...*almost*....then, she screamed "get out!" and his hands went from holding her to 'stiff'....and then he pushed her away as she went on to attack Griet.

(Ildi) the way he sort of pushed Catharina away after he took the knife from her. (Tress)In that scene, I noticed that after he pushed the knife out of Catarina's hand, he seemed ready to comfort her...*almost*....then, she screamed "get out!" and his hands went from holding her to 'stiff'....and then he pushed her away as she went on to attack Griet. It seemed to me . .at least the look on his face, and the way he let go of her . .he was just fed up with her, the tantrum and all. .it seemed to be like a . ."whatever . .just get it out of your system, I don't want to be bothered with you anymore". .type of a response

(Tress)and his hands went from holding her to 'stiff'....and then he pushed her away as she went on to attack Griet. (Kimberly)I don't want to be bothered with you anymore If you remember, he also used the same stiff hand response when Catharina is trying to stop him while he's in a rage over the comb incident.

(Tress) ...have been wanting to know what Van R and Johannes were saying to one another. When Griet first learns that she is to be painted, Van R makes all sorts of rude remarks (and Johannes just glares at him several times�.). The remark about �I hear you are of use to your master�.all that grinding and stirring. An old tale, isn�t it, the one of master and maid?� and then Vermeer just glares at him. Wot did he say to Van R when they were alone? �Can�t have her, I want her?� Because later, when Van R meets up with Griet by the wash, he says something like �still ripe as a plumb, what�s he playing at?� It is as if there was an understanding between Vermeer and Van R. Maybe there was. What if Vermeer wanted to protect Griet from the old hog by telling him that she was for him, so back off please? As someone who had that sort of thing with maids all his life (I'd imagine) VR would've understood that. So he'd say "okay, you can have her, but you've gotta paint her for me, so I can at least look at her". Maybe they had an agreement like that, so when VR talked about "all that grinding" etc, he was teasing them. And when he tried to 'sample' Griet in the courtyard he saw that she was still a virgin (how the heck could he tell?), and that's why he asked "What is he playing at?" He was surprised that Vermeer still didn't "pluck" her. Is that plausible? I'm just hypothesizing here...

(Ildi)He was surprised that Vermeer still didn't "pluck" her. Is that plausible? I'm just hypothesizing here... That was my take and I hope that this will be one of those oft touted *extras* in the DVD that I can't wait for.

Fourth viewing - probably the last...*sob,sob*. Caught a biggie goof this time: Vermeer began to paint 'Woman with a water pitcher' when the camera obscura scene took place, but when we move into the room we see the box on the left side of the screen, and the setup of the previous painting, 'Woman with a pearl necklace'. We can see the mannekin wearing the yellow mantle standing at the table. But when Griet looks into the c.o. she sees the woman with the water pitcher. Another thing I didn't notice before: when they bring the camera obscura into the house Vermeer can be seen on the right side of the screen looking down, watching Griet. And one more thing: In the scene after Griet comes back from the apothecary and gives Vermeer the paint things he asked for, a bird can be heard twittering while they talk. I thought that was strange since I don't remember the Vermeers having a bird other than the parrot, and it was the coldest winter day, so how did the bird sound get there? Or did they have a birdie somewhere in the house?

Saw for 3rd and (guessing) final time today. Something has bothered me since first time: when Mrs. V "explodes" near the end of the film, and orders Griet out, Griet goes straight out of the studio. She does not go up to the attic to get her meager "stuff". Next scene, she is shown leaving with her stuff. Guess we didn't see everyone leave the studio, Griet go back in, up to the attic, retrieve belongings, then leave to go out ;-) DH saw this a week or so ago, and we laughed about chick-flick "no explosions" criteria. I think Mrs. V qualifies-actually she blew up several times off screen too.

Just saw GWAPE again this week at a small art house cinema. As the certificate came up on the screen, the cinema was filled with ODB's track from LA! I couldn't believe it. As the person with me was well trained, they said "Oooh Colin's music" Guess whoever runs the place must be a fan.(Probably lurks here too) OOps on with the discussion or the Boss will be after me..... ;-))

Way behind times here I know, but I finally got to see GWAPE on the deficient DVD. A question or observation about the "ripe as a plum" scene... As Van R is tackling her, there is a lot of frantic struggling going on and you ever only really see his right hand. They both briefly look down, there may be some tense hesitation and it seems to me it's with a sense of discovery he says the "ripe as a plum" line. Has he perhaps "probed" her and found her intact? Would this have contributed to PG13 rating? I can't tell for sure, probably wrong...slow motion forward from there does not seem to reveal skirt in disarray, but I just thought I saw some "reaction" and then the delivery of the line, almost with a sense of wonder.

Barb, I haven't seen any sign of "probing", I just assumed that Van Ruijven had so much experience with maids that he could tell the difference between the virgins and the ones that had been taken already. I dunno how he knew though. Mind you, in Shakespear In Love the queen knew it just by looking at Gwynnie. "It takes a woman to notice" or something like that she said to Lord Wessex. I suppose VR had that sort of talent too. LOL! I will look closely at that scene though, now you piqued my curiosity.

I went to see GWAPE yesterday for the first time. Just wanted to say, that I loved the movie, IMO it`s ODB`s best. I liked everything in this movie. I�m an art student, so it was lovely to see him painting and mixing colours.Even the wig wasn`t that bad. I went to an afternoon show, so there were mostly older women in the audience. Afterwards people were telling that they had loved it and wanted to see it again :-) The music was great too, is there a soundtrack?

You can order the soundtrack through a link on the boutique. http://www.firth.com/boutiq.html

This will be waaaaaaaaaaay too much information and I apologize (you asked for it Linda.... ;-D)! (Linda) Oh, then maybe back to spoilers? I'd like to hear about those stalking habits. Ohhh....been a while (and I can't remember all that I posted before, so excuse the redundancy if it occurs). And Dorine, please feel free to correct or clean up if you remember differently! Ben stalked, but initially the audience (and even Ben) is a bit confused over who he is stalking. At the beginning of the film you see Ben and Elisa arguing in a car. Ben driving. And you don't see the full extent of what occurred, you get that in flashback throughout the film (like everything that Ben begins to remember, you get pieces at a time). Later, after the crash, he believes that Elisa is dead. When he wakes he hears things like "she's dead" and he's given a tape of a funeral that occurred while he was in the coma. Over the course of the film, you realize that the funeral he was given a tape of was that of a popstar (you later see her name on the side of the casket in flowers). He is questioned about the death and he begins to think he may have done it that night that he and Elisa fought (and maybe why they were fighting)...confused? ;-) He obsessively collects magazine pictures, glossies and such of this popstar. And in one lovely scene he is shot from above cutting and pasting in his scr pbooks. You get a bit of plumber's crack (**big sigh**) and possible "I see London, I see France" action, I was never sure if I was seeing boxers or jeans (a moment for DVD slo mo). Anyway, he begins to think he sees Elisa in various places...he tries to talk to her sister but she refuses to speak to him. It eventually comes out that he has been stalking, but it was Elisa he was following. Now you ask...why then did he keep momentos of a dead popstar? Turns out that Elisa was the personal assistant of the star. She was always at this woman's side and when photos were taken, she was often in them. Ben stalked Elisa, but it could easily look to outsiders like he was stalking the singer (and then you get shown many of the photos of the popstar again and you realize that Elisa and Ben are in many of them...Elisa with the singer and Ben eyeballing Elisa). Ben (and the audience) is now beyond confused. The detective questioning him knew that he was following Elisa and when he is questioned about the death of the singer, the detective mentions his 'history' of stalking (meaning his wife). Elisa was trying to leave Ben (they were fighting because she was telling him to leave her alone..that she was outta there...I believe at that point the popstar had just been killed but they did not know that yet). Elisa was leaving with someone (wasn't she seeing someone else Dorine?). Ben stopped the car, she refused to get back in, he left her in the middle of the road in a rainstorm and then proceeded to crash his car. In his muddled state, he believed that Elisa was in the car with him still (she had her shoes off while the were going down the road and when Ben pulled over to continue their fight, she only had time to put on one shoe. When he crashes the car, he sees the one show left behind and thinks that she is still in the car... what really happened only gets pieced together as the movie progresses and as his memory begins to click...These memories are triggered when he begins to see (or thinks he sees) Elisa round town). Now Elisa is a piece of work because although she knows Ben is mentally unstable she thinks, "well, since he thinks I'm dead, let him think it" instead of getting him committed somewhere. She doesn't tell him she is alive, she just disappears and after Ben has completely fallen apart (thinking he killed his wife and then may have offed the popstar) she shows up at his door to explain herself. She claims she was worried for her life and that is why she let him believe in the total fantasy of her death. Not a wise move IMO to do to a man who has trouble seperating reality from fiction. She says something about him not knowing what is real and how he made things up all the time...he tells her he can tell the difference and that he will prove it to her by 'getting rid of the fantasies'. All I can say now is...poor Charlotte

I'm amazed that you remember that in such detail. Thank you, Tress. LOL, I was really getting into your explanation and then I read "a bit of a plunber's crack" and I'm in seventh heaven;-)

Someone who saw the sneak preview of TEOR told me that Rebecca has a crush on Bridget and not on Marc.

LOL, Vera! I believe that Jacinda has let that cat out of the bag herself. ;-)