Two quotes from the professor that made me howl... Miss Bingley. Ugh. and Miss Bingley. I wonder when the contemporary phrase "brown nosing" first gained currency? Nothing surprising, but it was good to see it all along with the JA's own words! Thanks Karen!

Somewhere in the previous 1500 responses, you may have already drooled over this but, my most serious Darcy Drool occurs when he bows. He is essentially offering his head and his heart. It is so much fun to see how ODB offers this in varying degrees at different times. Sometimes the bow is so slight as to indicate he is really only interested in giving that person a piece of his mind and other times the bow is do deep and sincere that he seems to be offering Elizabeth even the depths of his heart. Swoon!

Ah, bows... I remember the director of Sense and Sensibility commenting on the significance of bows in Regency times. A matter of significance for an Oriental too, I believe.

Actually, my source is Emma Thompson in her book, The Sense and Sensibility Screenplay & Diaries. She writes, "Our session with Jane Gibson (movement duenna and expert on all manners historical) is both revealing and rewarding. We learn the root and meaning of the bows and curtsies -- or reverences, as Jane calls them." "The bow is the gift of the head and heart. The curtsy...a lowering in status for a moment, followed by recovery." Jane Gibson also worked with the actors in Pride & Prejudice as choreographer. Colin certainly learned well and uses this so masterfully -- another example of those subtle nuances he adds to his characters.

Okay, now I'll have to watch P&P again! It's almost been a week... ah, something new to look for! thank you Caribou!

(Dani) ah, something new to look for! Yes!! Another viewing is definitely called for! Thanks Karen for that link to the commentary. It was fun to read.

Had a question from a CF fan and thought someone here could answer it, more easily than I. Did Darcy's pinkie ring have a diamond or some stone set in it?

Didn't think it did, but that's the best answer, 'cos now need to go and check to be sure!

To me it looks like a diamond.

Ran across this review of a new book entitled "Jane Austen - Lives" by Carol Shields. Note the beginning of the review in the New Statesman: Maiden Aunt Feb 5, 2001 Lisa Allardice Ever since Colin Firth strode out of the pond at Pemberley wearing skintight jodhpurs and a transparent shirt, in the latest BBC adaptation of Pride and Prejudice, Jane Austen scholarship has never been the same. The much-loved maiden aunt of old has been banished to the cobwebs, and a racier, more experienced lady novelist has emerged in her place. In this brief biography, the novelist Carol Shields reiterates the case that Austen's life was not so uneventful, nor her world so Oosmall, as we had cosily imagined. It is fitting that the novelist who famously worked in miniature should be commemorated in a series of short lives. (Sylvia Townsend Warner's sparkling 29-page life of Austen is hard to find today.) Neither an academic nor critic, Shields - often compared to Austen for her elegantly plotted, deceptively domestic novels - is an inspired choice of biographer. She writes compassionately as a fellow novelist and "devoted reader" (once past some ominous transAtlantic throat-clearing about the Jane Austen Society of North America). Instead of telling Austen's "story" as we might have expected, Shields provides illuminating readings of her work, informed by what she calls a "contemporary sensibility", but never forgetting the cultural differences of a 21st-century reader. Without being in the least bit theoretical, she is drawn to the glances, silences and shadows of Austen's life and fiction. Notwithstanding her own rather opaque intention to "read into my own resistance", the result is sincere and balanced; the book's brevity leaves Shields mercifully free to concentrate on the author in question, unlike recent biographers who have been forced to root around distant relations and secondary characters. Taking her cue from Claire Tomalin's Jane Austen: a life (1997), Shields perceives a pattern of displacement, beginning with Jane's exile to a country wet-nurse, continuing with her brief spell at a girl's boarding school and culminating with her family's traumatic departure to Bath when she was in her mid-twenties. Austen was always a home-girl, and her novels can be read as a search or return to a true home - exemplifying Shields's contention that this, not current events, wars or politics, is the real subject of "serious fiction". The novels enact further wish-fulfilment in the second and third chances allowed to their heroines thwarted in love. Such a happy ending was sadly denied poor Jane, whose tentative romance, in her 20th year, with the clever Tom Lefroy was brutally aborted by his family as an impecunious match. In an episode worthy of her own work, Austen accepted the offer of a marriage of convenience from the appropriately bumptious Harris Bigg-Wither, only to retreat in embarrassment the next day. Austen repeatedly created young women able to overcome foolish parents and social disadvantage through their own wit and intelligence. They are each rewarded with an independent existence, something she herself an unmarried, dependent daughter - craved but which always eluded her. Shields is particularly interested in the young writer's apprenticeship - her reading, juvenilia and experiments with genre. With three impressive novels under her bonnet by the time she was 25, Austen makes today's literary prodigies seem positively tardy. (Those publishers who passed over Harry Potter might console themselves by remembering the editor who declined Pride & Prejudice "by return of post".) Austen criticism often focuses on character at the expense of technical accomplishments, so Shields's understanding of "the architecture of the novel" is especially satisfying. Plot dynamics make a welcome change from speculation about Aunt Jane's sleeping habits. Shields empathises with her subject as a novelist, chummily sympathising with.the frustrations and excitement of seeing a work of fiction, one of Austen's "darling" children, through to publication. Austen never enjoyed Emily Dickinson's "heaven", a solitary space upstairs, or Virginia Woolf's room of her own, writing instead in the downstairs parlour. Shields takes the conventional view that Austen's ten-year silence in Bath was the result of a disruption in her military work routine, not that she was too busy letting her hair down. It is perhaps unnecessary and uneconomical to brief English readers on the history of "Bath, in Somerset... about 100 miles from London". There is rather too much careless repetition for such a short book. All the favourite quotes are here, however, which show just how many words have been spun out from a relatively slender legacy of letters and recollections. This is an affectionate, sceptical appraisal of Austen's life and work. And even if by the end we do not feel we know the elusive, cherub-cheeked lady on the cover any better, we suspect somehow that she might have approved of such a trim, thoughtful study.

Skintight jodhpurs??? Where do those people take their imagery from?

Thanks for the heads-up, Karen. I shall put this on my reading list, right behind Obstinate Heart which I have yet to pick up. Trying to figure out whether the "Lives" in the title is a verb or noun. Is she trying to say Jane was schizophrenic or an immortal? ;-) Skintight jodhpurs??? Where do those people take their imagery from? Surely not from here. 'Tis shocking. As for the "transparent shirt", I think it's more apt to use "translucent". Nothing sheerly obvious here, just a hint of the form and its features underneath. I concentrate on the essentials.

Skintight jodhpurs??? Where do those people take their imagery from? Surely not from here. 'Tis shocking. 'Tis historically somewhat inaccurate as well. Shocking indeed. Nothing sheerly obvious here, just a hint of the form and its features underneath Oooooh.... a sheer thrill of obvious delight...

First I better say that this post is not meant as a disparagement of a thread brought up at ROP. The topic was what actor would you choose to recast P&P if you were limited to Americans and I thought it quite interesting. Once I picked myself off the floor after hearing Tom Cruise and Johnny Depp proposed as Mr. Darcy, I realized I've got to be a generation removed from the respondents and perhaps I'd have proposed them too if I were that young. But here's the rub - it's my belief that a good actor can play any nationality but an actor can not play TALL unless you're Alan Ladd and are given props. I don't want my Mr. Darcy standing on a box. Cruise and Depp are definitely out. Is there any American actor who could fill our boy's breeches, er shoes?

(Heide) Is there any American actor who could fill our boy's breeches, er shoes? Pause. Hardly a name comes to mind. Robert Sean Leonard? If Guy Pearce were American, I think he could smoulder very nicely.

Russell Crowe is tall and smouldered in "Gladiator". I know he's an Aussie. Alec Baldwin smoulders. I heard an insidious rumor last year that there were plans afoot to make P&P into a movie with Jude Law and Nicole Kidman. I pity them.

(Evelyn)I heard an insidious rumor last year that there were plans afoot to make P&P into a movie with Jude Law and Nicole Kidman. I pity them. Arrrrgh! I think I'd drown in self-pity.

Say it ain't so, Jo!

Heide, the suggestions were Tom Cruise and Johnny Depp. Interesting, I quess. I suppose it could be worse, someone might have suggested Brad Pitt with a dark-brown rinse job. That would've been pretty much on parity with the Cruise and Depp suggestions, actually. Robert Sean Leonard seems a good choice for an American. Edward Norton is a brilliant actor, but he does tend to be on the average side, looks-wide. Plus, I've no idea how well he'd do in a period piece. At least with Leonard I've some idea of him in period work from "The Age of Innocence".

American's playing Darcy??? Hmmm... that's a tough one... The guy from Will and Grace (who plays Will). I think he could do it. David Boreanaz (Angel); He smoulders... Can't think who'd be a good Lizzie...

May I have the dorky Frosty the Snowman tie, pl.? Unless Eileen...who named it such...wants it.She has first dibs. The rest of you *don't*. ( Someone else can have the vile suit...see, aren't I generous?)

Nope, just can't see any of those guys doing it for me for Darcy. They're too short or too skinny or too smirky. However, Frosty the Snowman is a novel idea.

(Evelyn) Someone else can have the vile suit...see, aren't I generous? Jacket is not bad compared to tie. I'll pass on Frosty (have no prejudice toward Xmas ties but there are limits to these things). I'm waiting to see the movie before I lay claim to something. ;-)

I'll take "The Tie". Merci. (Eileen) I'm waiting to see the movie before I lay claim to something. ;-) Better go early or you'll end up with one of the shirts that are too big around the collar ;-)

Oops, have just realized we are OT..hey boss (to use Evie's term), can you move these to the keepsie topic? Thanks. ;-)

Would anyone like to volunteer to take over Keepsake List maintenance? Marcia has emailed me to say that she's far too busy to continue. I thank her for all her work and hope that someone equally devoted will step forward to take over. A Big Thank You, Your Marcianess!

Were you trying to volunteer, Heide? ;-D

A big smooch to you, Marcia. Hope you'll still drop by from time to time.

Heh heh. No, let's just say my earlier graphic was a bit inappropriate. Should look at them before I post.

Were you trying to volunteer, Heide? ;-D Now, all together.... WE WANT HEIDE....WE WANT HEIDE....

I'll vote for Heide too! :-) Has anybody claimed the suit MD was wearing when he told Bridgit that he likes her just as she is? If not, i'm laying claim. If that's gone already then i'd like the shirt he wore at the tarts and vicars. btw - why are we doing this at Darcy drool, rather than Keepsakes? any certain reason? You have my graditude as well Marcia for being the head Keeptress for so long, you did a great job! *big hug* *whispered* we want Heide, we want Heide...

Gaah!! *blurred vision from no BJD today* OK we should take this to Keepsakes, whatever number that is.... ;-D

Thanks, Fran�oise, for sending me this report from some friends who went to see Andrew Davies at the Humanities Forum at the University of Wisconsin this past Friday: ~~~~~~ Andrew Davies was quite a witty speaker. While the auditorium was filling (a good 20 minutes before the speech) P&P was playing on a fairly large screen set up on the stage. It was very interesting to see P&P enlarged. The audience actually groaned when that stopped and Davies was announced. But Davies showed various clips from P&P during his talk. Davies began by saying that he and Sue Birtwistle had always seen P&P as a fairly lusty tale. He noted that the famed beginning of the novel presented a daunting challenge to the screen writer. So he described how he envisioned the beginning (the two young men galloping across the country side -- "*big* men on *big horses"), Bingley showing his impetuous youth by seeing the house and deciding on the spot to rent it, Lizzie's pent up sexual energy as illustrated by her running about the countryside (she spies the new young men galloping across the field and this puts a "skip" in her step). The next shot of Lizzie passing the mare and foal (suggesting fecundity as well as impregnation) he blamed on the director -- all of this in preparation for the famous line "It is a truth...." (clip of all of this shown) Next he talked about Darcy's first proposal. Noting that Jane Austen only wrote the first few words and then generally described the rest of the speech, he felt he was presented with a pretty difficult task in crafting the rest of that scene. He did say that it was Colin's idea on how to begin by using what Davies called the longest pause in the history of film! (clip of first proposal shown) Next he talked about Darcy's letter which immediately followed the first proposal. He said that you could always recognize his works because he favored a lot of scenes with "head and shoulder shots" usually between two characters in a bedroom with bed clothes slipping off one shoulder (I *love* those! he said). The letter writing gave him a chance to undress Darcy since he reckoned that the letter being longish took most of the night to write and he could gradually reduce Colin to an undershirt during its writing. He also talked about this as an opportunity to introduce Georgiana visually as a character earlier than she appears in the book and to give the audience a glimpse of Darcy's caring and gentle nature by his gently holding Georgiana after Wickham is expelled from the premises. (letter writing scene shown) Then he said he would like to talk about his favorite scene in P&P - the Music Room scene!!!!! He noted that this is not a scene that you can actually write as the power of the scene is in the looks between Darcy and Lizzie. He did talk about the dialogue, particularly having Caroline make the faux pas of mentioning Wickham (he noted that Caroline was always putting her foot in her mouth) which caused Georgiana to misplay her piano piece, giving Lizzie the excuse to rush to her rescue thus impressing Darcy with Lizzie's protectiveness of Georgiana which mirrored Darcy's own, and upheld Darcy's belief that he had not made a mistake in confiding his secret to Lizzie. Okay ladies -- Andrew Davies said that there was no reason for Darcy to gallop off to Lambton the next morning except to propose once again to Lizzie!!!!! Of course, Lydia's indiscretion intervened. He said that neither Colin nor "the actor who played Wickham" (his words) knew how to use a walking stick. Then he said "That is the only criticism I can make of Colin Firth!" Wow He said -- at some point during his talk -- that he knew that the ending had left us "unsatisfied" (boy, that was an understatement). He said that his main contribution to BJD was bringing a more general closeness to P&P and the "I like you exactly as you are" scene -- which was shown. He then began talking about his screen adaptation of Emma which was greatly overshadowed by the Paltrow version. He said that he wrote a great script for Northanger Abbey, working with Miramax, but that the Weinsteins had decided not to proceed with filming but now owned his script! So, he has put it up at Pemberley.com (a site he recommended) for free. The talk began promptly at 7:30 and ended about 9:15 with Andrew Davies saying "I drink quite a lot and, frankly, it has been quite a while since I had one." The audience was very friendly to Davies and also seemed to really enjoy the evening. P.S: When noting that Darcy was galloping off, after the musical night at Pemberley, to propose again to Lizzie, Andrew Davies couldn't remember where Lizzie was at the time -- the audience shouted "Lambton!" During the Q&A, he was asked why he didn't use any of the men's first names in P&P. He replied that he didn't think Mr. Bingly *had* a first name -- at which point the audience shouted "Charles!" Maybe he wasn't joking about drinking a lot.

"Andrew Davies said that there was no reason for Darcy to gallop off to Lambton the next morning except to propose once again to Lizzie!!!! Well, it's only taken six years to put that one to rest... He said that he wrote a great script for Northanger Abbey, working with Miramax,but that the Weinsteins had decided not to proceed with filming Esp aft the Mansfield Park disaster.I bet Patricia Rozema is disappointed;-) He said that his main contribution to BJD was bringing a more general closeness to P&P and the "I like you exactly as you are" scene -- which was shown. Well...I'm wrong ..could have sworn that was a Richard Curtis look-a-like "I'm just a girl.."line from NH. Thanks Karen and Francoise....wish I had been there...

He then began talking about his screen adaptation of Emma which was greatly overshadowed by the Paltrow version. He said that he wrote a great script for Northanger Abbey, working with Miramax, but that the Weinsteins had decided not to proceed with filming but now owned his script! So, he has put it up at Pemberley.com (a site he recommended) for free. Before you go looking for this script at Pemberley, let me tell you that it's not there. As the script actually belongs to Miramax, we do not feel comfortable publishing it on line. However, if you want a copy, feel free to e-mail me.

Thanks to Karen and Fran�oise. I really enjoyed this. And thanks to Myretta for the warning.

Thanks Karen and Francoise for all those insights. Good excuse for another viewing? As Mr. Davies does not live a million miles from me, it's a shame we could not have had this pleasure here! C'est la vie.

Okay, maybe I can at least get rid of the center, even though I can't view the source to find the fontsize. As I wrote on the CF board, I travelled 70 miles to four libraries to find all six tapes. I called ahead to the last three, and I still couldn't find everything. I found 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 in the penultimate library, and had to travel to the last to get a 3/4 set, of which my VCR tried to eat number three. It took me a few hours to remember not to start conversations with the phrase "Hello, do you have the 1995 BBC/A&E miniseries of Pride and Prejudice with Colin Firth and Jennifer Ehle?" I'd say, for that amount of travel, time and aggravation, CF and JE owe me phone calls, or maybe I should interview CF in a manner unlike Bridget/Helen Fielding, with nonobsessive questions. So anyway, I'm NOT a Jane Austen fan. I very much dislike her writing style, although I found the story interesting, I suppose. On borrowing the miniseries, I expected this total droolfest. Instead, my inner film critic kicked in during all the allegedly droolworthy scenes and I questioned those scenes' purposes, laughed and threw a cheesehead at the television. Liked the miniseries, though no way in heck I'd actually buy it. My biggest complaint is about the Darcy Dive. Bridget drools over Darcy's *emerging* from the lake. All I saw was Darcy after he'd seemingly already been out of the lake for quite some time; he was walking towards Pemberley. He was drying and very little clung. Is the emergence a huge Bridget joke, or was that particular scene cut out from the library version? I was not moved at all. Also, the "looks" just didn't do anything either. I told him repeatedly to stop staring. In fact, I had such high hopes about the miniseries that I complained to the TV screen throughout the five hours. The only times I even came close to drooling were when the camera focused on his hair. Mmmm, those curls. Feel free to mock me. However, I do need an explanation for apparent lack of lake.

We don't mock people here. We might kid around a lot, but we're friends and don't mock one another.

(Rusty) In fact, I had such high hopes about the miniseries that I complained to the TV screen throughout the five hours. ... However, I do need an explanation for apparent lack of lake. Frankly, the lake thing wasn't an instant turnon for me either. Only after the 3rd of fourth viewing, however, did I start to appreciate the backlit silhouette of the bod. Mmmmmmm. I also found the look very touching at first and only started melting at the 3rd or fourth viewing (obviously, for me, it takes repeated exposure for things to sink in) ;-) This was back five years ago, though and my vacuous memory may be faulty. But I had just taped it off air from the original US broadcasting on A&E (Jan, 1996). I was ready and waiting and I was disappointed in many ways by the series because I was a rampant Pride & Prejudice fan (the original book -- I read it often) and approached the series with certain expectations of my own, many of which were not met. It was only after the 3rd or fourth viewing that I could look past my own personal agenda and see it for what it was, not in light of what I had wanted it to be. Only then were my eyes opened to things it offered that went well beyond my expectations in certain areas. I expect that if I had read all the hype, the mangled facts (some article-writers not only 'saw' him emerge from the lake -- scene not present -- but dive in naked in the first place!! -- It's all journalistic exaggeration to fulfill *their* agenda.), the squeals from overwrought fans, etc., I definitely would have been disappointed. If, on top of that, I had gone to such trouble to obtain it in the first place, I might even have come out disliking it in many ways, as you do. But I think that we here are Darcy maniacs because of was he DOESN'T do as well as what he does, how he can express in his eyes one emotion, while speaking just the opposite, how he can be positively dislikeable at the beginning and gradually evolve into the admirable creature that emerges in the end. We appreciate Colin's restrained, subtle, and affecting performance, just as our first (for many) exposure to CF's astounding talents. Only a personal opinion, by the way.

(in reference to KJArt's entire post which I refuse to cut and paste.) I'm used to hearing "only a personal opinion" used as an extreme personal defense rather than just being used to preface an opinion...wow. Weird to realize you were doing the latter. Should I blame Helen Fielding for my feelings about P&P? I think it's her fault. Or maybe it's the fault of the woman who doesn't know how to spell Firth. I can understand not being able to spell Ehle; I couldn't pronounce it until I heard Terry Gross say it, but Firth is phonetic, dangit! It's great to know that he didn't emerge from the lake, and that I didn't miss it. I dare say I watched that scene 12 times before returning the tapes; I had to drive a friend to work in the same town as the 3/4 library so there was actually a reason to go. Even after the 12th viewing, I just thought "wot?" I positively loved Lizzy, which I don't think I mentioned before. In fact, tonight I went to dinner in Boston's North End, and inwardly "woo-hoo"-ed while passing N. Bennet St. She was just, well, sassy. In fact, I could definitely picture myself in her position in both the book and miniseries. Darcy...ummm... But as for subtleties, they must have been so subtle I missed them. I'm all for less obviousness and gratuitousness in film (god help me if I end up seeing hello mummy returns), but I just saw absolutely nothing going on with Darcy. He had no more redeeming qualities to me at the end than he did at the beginning. There was something more I had planned to say here, but now I forgot. well, of course I'm into curly hair right now, so that's the only thing that would prob. have affected me anyway. "Fitzwilliam, your scalp masseuse is here." BTW, is "Colin Firth...mmmmm mmmmm." a copyrighted quote yet?

Firth is phonetic Only for the native English speakers, methinks. :-) This site attracts multinatonal company. :-)

(Rusty) BTW, is "Colin Firth...mmmmm mmmmm." a copyrighted quote yet? Gee, I hope not. I use it often. ;-) KJ

Firth is phonetic Only for the native English speakers, methinks. :-) This site attracts multinatonal company. :-) Now that I think about it, it's not phonetic in English either...but the person who couldn't spell it is a librarian in Massachusetts. It was very frustrating to talk to her after hitting three libraries and needing the elusive fourth tape. I still think CF owes me an interview in exchange for my trek, so I'm continuing my oar-obtaining story on my own website.

"So anyway, I'm NOT a Jane Austen fan." I suspect this is the real reason Darcy as a character (and P&P2 as a mini-series) didn't do it for you. Those of us who grew up loving tall, dark, handsome, brooding heroes from Jane Austen, the Bronte sisters, etc., find in Darcy the ideal romantic hero--he is, in fact the archetype from which all subsequent romance heroes spring, IMHO. Darcy may have had one or two predecessors in poetry, but he is the one and only original as far as novels go. Why do we love him? Let me count a few of the ways: 1. He doesn't say much in the beginning, but you just know, as the story progresses, that underneath all of that punctilious reserve there are some deeply passionate feelings just waiting to be let loose. As Darcy's devoted fans, we'd all love to be the one to make him lose that iron control. 2. Because he doesn't say much, you have to rely on Darcy's expressions (the "looks") to even have a clue about what he's thinking. In Austen's time, it wasn't considered polite to stare at someone, especially a young unmarried woman, because of what people might think--either about the young woman or the guy doing the "ogling". In P&P2, I love the way CF starts out trying to be at least somewhat inconspicuous. He looks out the window a few times when no one can see him. Many times his "look" is half fascinated, half angrily unwilling. He doesn't want to stare but he can't help himself, and it makes him angry with her for being so bewitching. Lizzie even kids him about it a couple of times. And why is CF's Darcy the best? Well, I've loved "Pride and Prejudice" all my life, but before CF's version, I never really got the impression that Darcy was having a really tough time keeping his hands to himself. He spends the first half of P&P2 looking at Lizzie like he wants to carry her off to his four-pos er for a couple of weeks, and the second half looking at her like he wants to do anything and everything in his power to make her happy--including carrying her off to his four-poster for a couple of weeks. What's not to love about him? 3. Darcy is a take charge man who knows how to get things done. Even though Elizabeth thinks that her family's situation is "hopeless", he makes all their troubles disappear, anonymously, just to make her happy. Who among us wouldn't want a man like that? 4. Finally, Darcy (especially CF's Darcy) is gorgeous, from the top of his curls to the tips of his booted feet. But unlike a lot of "gorgeous" film heroes, there is also a piercing intelligence, a sense of humor (although at times very well hidden), and a very strong sense of honor. He is, in fact, the perfect hero, except for his pride. And by the end of the book, Austen sees to it that pride is no longer a problem. Well, those are just the four main reasons I love CF, Darcy, and Pride & Prejudice. I have a lot more, but don't want to be thought a "verbally incontinent" poster (sorry, couldn't resist that delicious phrase from BJD).

As Darcy's devoted fans, we'd all love to be the one to make him lose that iron control. LOL. Very well put...thank you Louise. You speak for a lot of us here.

Ditto, louise! You rock!

Ahh, feels so much better to use my real name. Louise, I LOVED your explanation. You're right, though, I never grew up with that image of a romantic hero, though I read and liked Jane Eyre during some summer when I was younger. In fact, I still can't say I have any image of a male coming to sweep me off my feet, though by looks alone, if Darcy wanted to carry me off to his four-poster bed for a couple of weeks, I would gladly follow his instructions. I indeed agree that he actually has more than one dimension though the other dimensions were harder for me to find than they were for you. However, I guess that wouldn't explain why I wanted crackers with the miniseries. And as mentioned before, I had major trouble getting into P&P just because of Jane Austen's writing style. Finally, Darcy (especially CF's Darcy) is gorgeous (sarcasm)YA THINK?(/sarcasm) verbally incontinent...gaaaah, I just realized *I'm* verbally incontinent! But though I don't like P&P much, will always love to hear about Darcy.

Great explanation, Louise, and so eloquently put. No need for Depends. ;-D

Hey guys i'm new and love arnold. Does he have a fan club where i can write him?

Benita, you are on the wrong topic. There's info about Arnold on his topic.

Thank you. I feel that I have missed a lot of drool time since I did not have the internet at home at the time of the original discussions, so I must now make amends. Better late than never! I have another comment regarding the "lake/wet shirt" scene, which failed to move the young lady above: "My biggest complaint is about the Darcy Dive. . . I was not moved at all." Perhaps you need to consider the subcontext of the scene (the between the lines stuff with which all P&P2 obsessives are familiar) rather than just the actual dive and emergence themselves. This scene is all about Fitzwilliam Darcy's lowest point in the entire story--he is losing his self-control--nay his very self--because he fears he can never have the woman he loves and desires to the exclusion of all others. He is "stripped" of his pride and his reserved mask and is showing his true feelings in spite of everything he tries to do to control them. So Andrew Davies decided to strip off part of his clothing to show that we are seeing the real man underneath the aristocratic, icy demeanor--and boy, this guy is like Vesuvius with molten feelings boiling just underneath the surface. This is what makes me drool, along with the hint of manly chest we can see through the famous wet shirt. When he arrives at the edge of the lake, Darcy is suffering. He has spent months engaged in physical activity and mental discipline, but to no avail ("I shall conquer this. I shall!"). He has trouble eating and sleeping due to his obsession with Elizabeth. When he does fall asleep from sheer exhaustion, he has fevered dreams about her (I'll leave it to your vivid imaginations to invent those). In short, he's well on his way to becoming an embarrassment to himself--and to top it all off, he knows it's all his own fault for being such a jerk. He has no hope that he will ever be able to change Lizzie's mind about him. So he decides to ride home ahead of his house party guests (again the physical activity to try to "conquer this") rather than come with them in his carriage as he normally would. He knows he's no fit company anyway, especially for his impressionable young sister, who must be wondering what on earth is wrong with him. By the time he reaches Pemberley, he's hot and exhausted from his ride. In spite of this, his hormones are playing up again. He decides that a dip in the lake is the answer to his immediate problems. (I'm sure that even on a hot day the lake temperature in England is "chilly".) He removes only the pieces of his clothing that will be ruined by the water and dives in. When he emerges, he decides that a brisk walk the rest of the way home (again the physical activity--poor guy must be in really good shape after all that--mmmmmmm). Ahem. He gets halfway to the house and who does he run into in his own garden but Lizzie. He must think for a few seconds that he's finally lost it and he's seeing things. But the apparition speaks his name and there are a couple of strangers behind her so he figures out that she's real. After a stilted conversation during which he is so rattled that he asks after her family's health twice in a few sentences, he realizes that the chill of the water is wearing off and if he doesn't get out of there he's going to further embarrass himself by being way too obviously "happy to see her". He excuses himself and hotfoots it to the house to make himself presentable. By the time he emerges from the house his intellect has taken over again. He has realized that if Lizzie is willing to speak civilities to him she must not hate him as badly as he thought. He immediately begins planning his campaign to win Lizzie at all costs. Between the time he dived into the lake and the time he re-emerges from his house, properly clothed again, Darcy has undergone a sea change. He is no longer the despondent lover, unable to think of any way to win his love. He has once again become the dominant alpha male--capable of doing whatever needs to be done to win Lizzie's love. He still has to perform his "knightly deeds" to win her hand, but we know that for the first time since that awful day in the Collins' parlor, he can succeed. I guess what I'm trying to say (in my long-winded way--forgive me, I was an English lit major as an undergrad), is that the glimpse of Darcy after his dive into the lake is not only exciting because of what it reveals of him physically (although that part is to many of us very, er, inspiring), but because of what it reveals about him as a person--the man underneath the social mask he has worn during the first half of the book/series. And underneath, unlike Wickham, Darcy is pure gold. And Colin Firth embodies him better than any other.

Thank you so much Louise for your "defence" of Darcy! Thought of being a lawyer like MD?!! You've really hit the nail on the head with your comments. Andrew Davies would be proud of you (not to mention JA!) We get to see so much of the man not openly revealed to us but hinted at in the book via the serialisation. I also think that Cf's own interpretation of Darcy was a perfect foil to AD's script, who wanted to make Darcy even more "sexy" with naked dive and other possible changes we haven't heard of! We know Colin had an input eg the pause at the first proposal scene and the veto to appearing naked etc

Louise, you're my hero!

Hey Louise...don't go away. Your part of the team now... No going back to lurkdom... Your impressions of the wet-shirt scene goes in my P&P scrapbook. Sure you weren't a consultant to Simon Langton?

V. good explanation of the droolability of the wet shirt scene, Louise. I believe it is his sudden appearance of vulnerability that really attracts us to him in that scene.

Dear Louise, well-done, well-done! I'd been formulating in my mind a response to Emily's opinions about the book and the series, but I could never hope to do better than you. I especially enjoy your analysis of the Lake Scene (must watch again to test your theories...) and think it's a testament to CF's incredible performance that a single scene can contain so many layers to dissect. Emily, for those of us who love the book, CF's Darcy can not be equaled. I hope you will view the series again (and read the book) with a new perspective--to this day, I am still amazed by the portrayal from an acting standpoint. It's just a bonus that a heart-throb emerged for us intellectual types. ;-)

Louise, I agree that your analysis of Darcy is both astute and eloquent. I like the idea of Darcy as the archetype for the romantic hero. As a girl, I thought Heathcliff and Rochester were equally romantic and dashing, but as an adult, Heathcliff�s violence and vengeance can�t be overlooked, and if I were the new Ms. Rochester, I�d certainly watch my step--wouldn�t want to get locked up in the attic like the first Mrs. R. :-)

I still think that, on the balance of historical probabilities, Darcy would not have dived in the lake at that particular time and in that particular manner. But - who cares... :-)

I like the idea of Darcy as the archetype for the romantic hero. As much as I like Mr. Darcy, I don't think if him as the archetype for the romantic hero. I go for the Scarlet Pimpernel. And who can forget Dante with his Beatrice?

(Moon) I go for the Scarlet Pimpernel I don't *seek him* anywhere. ;-D

Louise, love the dissection...I just have to comment on two things: subtext, wot? I was so dismayed with cheesiness I forgot to look. (uggh, high school drama.) And everything I'd read about the scene (including Helen Fielding's interpretation) seemed to focus solely on the aesthetics of the wet shirt, and I was concentrating on that purely aesthetic level. I would've liked to see the shirt wetter...(or feel it)...or something. I not sure naked would have cut it for me either. And Christine, if you'd read about the trouble I went to to find all six tapes, you wouldn't ask me to watch it again. Reading it won't help at all. Eurrrrrrgh.

Thanks to all of you for the votes of confidence. However, I strongly suspect that most of the positive response is due to the fact that I am, on this particular message board (Darcy Drool), "preaching to the choir". "I still think that, on the balance of historical probabilities, Darcy would not have dived in the lake at that particular time and in that particular manner. But - who cares... :-)" I definitely agree with the last part. But I have a feeling that if Jane Austen could see P&P2, she might say, with a twinkle in her eye, "Well, that's not precisely how I wrote it, but I must admit that your Mr. Darcy is an exceedingly fine figure of a man." I mean, the woman obviously had taste or she wouldn't have described Darcy as she did. "As much as I like Mr. Darcy, I don't think if him as the archetype for the romantic hero. I go for the Scarlet Pimpernel. And who can forget Dante with his Beatrice?" I'll give you Dante as a predecessor, although that was some of the poetry I referred to, not a novel. But I believe that "Pride and Prejudice" predates "The Scarlet Pimpernel" by about 100 years (I think that the latter was written about 1900 or so), so if Darcy and Percy are considered the same heroic "type", then Austen was there first, not Orczy, which is all that I meant. And of course there are dozens of variations on that archetype, of which Percy is one. For instance, I've always thought that the person who wrote Zorro must have read "Pimpernel" or vice versa, they have so many similarities. However, we each have our own little list of "perfect hero" prerequisites, and yours are as good as anyone's. I like Percy too, I just don't like him as well as Darcy. Finally, as I mentioned above, when I took a course on Jane Austen in college, my professor thought that "Emma" was the "most perfect novel in the English language." But I always figured he thought so because he had a crush on Emma. Personally, I loved Mr. Knightley, but I thought Emma herself was a royal pain to her friends and family (although usually well-intentioned). However, I could not identify with her the way I could with Lizzie--who had no money, and was not the most beautiful woman in town, but she could hold her own in witty repartee with the Darcys of the world. In all but "connections" and wealth, she and Darcy were a match of equals from the beginning--it just took them a while to figure it out. And the novel itself--wonderful structure--just like the dance at Netherfield they come together and move apart again and again in the time-honored dance of courtship as performed by two of the most entertaining romantic characters in literature.

Emily, I did read with amusement about the enormous effort you put forth to find all six tapes (when we were both posting on the wrong topic, I believe) and even responded. I commend you for your perserverance and am very sorry that you were disappointed. You can't blame a girl for trying to defend her man! Have tried to rent it at the video store? BTW, I just realized that I delurked here rather abruptly. I'd just joined on 143 last week. Sorry to just pop up without a proper hello!

Christine, re: having heard about my struggles, oh, oops, sorry :) I've been to at least five video stores and the only CF I see and recognize is TEP, SiL, and Circle of Friends. I own the first (luv the Fiennes boys), am indifferent on the second (own Elizabeth instead), and hated the third. I rarely even see any version of P&P. And my current novelish copy of P&P is too hard to read, especially with no CF on the cover! It's the killer Austen anthology. (Changing topic back to Darcy) So, everyone, should I rerent tape four and just watch the Darcy Dive over and over? Or just watch the tape over and over? That's actually the one tape for which I had to hit the fourth library.

Apropos of nothing - finished watching P&P2 again last night. I think my favorite Darcy Moment is in tape 3, the first proposal. His out-of-character floundering and the (pause)(almost says something)(looks pained)(pause) cycle always makes me laugh.

Hasn't it been said here already and several times over - don't bother watching Darcy dive - it's not Colin! The bod never seemed right to me, anyway - the calves are a tad too thick... ;-)

(Emily) So, everyone, should I rerent tape four and just watch the Darcy Dive over and over? Or just watch the tape over and over? That's actually the one tape for which I had to hit the fourth library. I would definitely recommend to watch again in its entirety if not for your difficulties. V. puzzled by lack of availability at video store. I don't live in what is considered a large city and found it very easily at my Blockbuster. It was in the drama section. I would expect that the demand for it has increased since the release of BJD, therefore increasing its availability. As for the lake scene, that is not the one I replay. Like KJArt, my appreciation for Darcy slowly developed over several viewings. Darcy's physical appearance in the lake scene didn't do it for me (and still doesn't); it's the subtext that stirs you. I get the feeling that you feel like you have to love P&P2 as much as the rest of us. I'm pretty new here, but I don't think you'll be ostracized if you're not a full-on Darcy devotee! Laura T, I just watched it again last night too! That pause is classic, thought my favorites are 1) drawing room scene in which Caroline Bingley parades by with Lizzie and he makes the "shocking" comment about admiring their figures; the mischievous smile kills me, and 2) the tortured post-proposal letter-writing scene ending the next morning with wet face and open shirt. Mmmmmm, that is truly scrumptious...

Oh, goody, we're really into drooling again. Don't stop, everybody, keep going! :-)

Frankly, he had me intrigued when he said 'on foot?' and then looked fairly amused. But the clincher was the Netherfield Ball, when their hands touched (and later the eyeroll...) The pond scene was fine, but it didn't affect me. Actually, I prefer the fencing scene before (I will conquer this). (Christine) I don't think you'll be ostracized if you're not a full-on Darcy devotee! Quite right, but I don't think you can convince anyone. They either like it or don't. No amount of explanation is going to convince anyone that the pond scene or any scene has or should have a sensory feeling for them. That's the nature of the beast. Most missed scenes from book to movie: (1) the others in the Netherfield drawing room while Jane is sick, particularly the one where Darcy asks Elizabeth to dance with him. No way should that have been left out and (2) their post engagement walk.

I can't tear my eyes away from Colin and the little nuances in his facial expression and the body language - so virtually all Darcy scenes are my favourite. But the greatest favourite of mine is the Netherfield Ball dance scene, a veritable concert of acting while dancing, apparently so airy and effortless and so utterly electric. I never tire of watching it over and over again.

Lamptom Inn and "On Foot?" did it for me. All the scenes with Lizzie are electric....and in Episode 6 when he goes back with Mr. Bingley..."Jane, Jane...he's come, he's come..." Those looks...erotic.

Lamptom Inn Yeah, the unconscious hand-holding and "Are you ill?" is very sweet. :) On a less salubrious topic - what was up with CF's and CB-C's pants in the wedding scene? There's some serious ... crotch-area funniness going on. (Excuse me if this has already been discussed ad nauseum. ;) )

My answer to your question, Emily, would be that watching the pond scene again and again won't help you appreciate P&P more than you do now. It's just another piece of Darcy, though vital to us as Louise so eloquently explained, but as you can see from the other favorite scenes listed above, each of us has many different favorite Darcy moments. Each scene pulls back the curtain just a tiny bit more on the man. I don't think one scene alone can help you appreciate the character though it certainly wouldn't prevent the appreciation of his looks. I'll add my "amen" to all the above and add the piano scene at Rosings. We know at this point he's besotted by Elizabeth and is actually thinking of taking the drastic, almost impossible step of making her his wife. He thinks he's in control of his feelings but at the same time finds any reason he can to be in her company. He is looking mighty, mighty fine, dark and handsome in his black suit. He strides purposefully to the piano not just to escape his vulgar aunt but to check out what kind of flirtation is going on between Elizabeth and his cousin. She allows him into the conversation with the intention of making sport of him but it turns out that his directness and perception ends up unsettling her. "We neither of us perform to strangers." He's left her speechless for a moment and it wasn't just those piercing dark eyes though frankly that's all I"d have needed to have slid under the piano.

You forgot something, Heidi...when he (ever so quickly) glances down at her cleavage...*drooling*. She's got Colonel Fitzwilliam under her spell...and she's making the most of it.

I agree with Karen. No amount of rewatching is going to do any good. You either get it or you don't and please don't feel bad about it! Go on and watch those movies you love! Forget about P&P.

Dear god, hell is freezing...pigs are flying...I actually agree with Lassie on this point. You sound quite convinced that you don't like P&P, Emily, so by this time I doubt you can be swayed. We'll also spare you the trouble of recounting your library trials and tribulations any further.

Oh God...Gwynnie (or is it Sally) just flew past my window...

Phew! After several days (what with work and sleep getting in the way), have finally read through the first 1500 posts on this topic. As I mentioned earlier, I delurked at 143 recently--prematurely I think. For had I come here first, I would have known that I am home! I've missed so much (Gi's marriage, Nan's graduation) and learned so much (glad to be in the company of other Guilty Marrieds). Such wit and intelligence abound here, I scarcely feel qualified to speak. Like Caroline (where have you gone?), I too was feeling a little insane at first. I'd long admired CF and been a fan of P&P, but it wasn't until I saw BJD that I succumbed (surrendered!) to true Firthaholism. That's when I went on the internet, secretively at first, looking at the websites, reading about CF's earlier works, devouring any information about ODB. Then I stumbled across the Drool conference and the rest is history. I've mentioned my new hobby to some friends and was met with a lot of chiding--but I do not care! Now, every ne, please start the 12 steps with me, "My name is Christine and I'm a Firthaholic..." ;-)

but we're not trying to recover. Did you see Gi's Shower or our other birthday celebrations? Yes, we have fun here, out in the open, shaking our fists at the world to despise us if they dare. ;-D

I was in the middle before I knew it had begun. So, during my umpteenth viewing of P&P, I tried to assess what had happened. It was the open-collar scenes: the bath, the letter, the pond and meeting. Darcy is most appealing when he looks his most vulnerable. Because he is never, ever vulnerable; he makes a study of not being. He always, always wins in every situation--until-- he meets his match. Re: the pond scene. For me, it's not seeing someone jump into water or even come out wet, it's meeting the one person on the planet who has refused him what he wanted when he is the least prepared to meet her. Jane Austin reaches out, past 200 years, with her words and I still feel a pit in my stomach when I read that section or think about her words while watching Colin.

(Karen) but we're not trying to recover. Quite right! Was attempt at humor failing miserably. (Caribou) I still feel a pit in my stomach when I read that section or think about her words while watching Colin. Groooooan. I concur wholeheartedly. I just purchased the tapes from A&E and am giddy with anticipation! No more looking sheepish at video store.

Your humor didn't fail. Got it. I should put *winkie winkie* next to my remark. You're very much on the same wavelength (Martian or further galaxy) as most others here. ;-))))

You're very much on the same wavelength ... as most others here. 589 nm? [1] ;) (Whoa. Obscure chemistry reference. How can I make that relevant to CF or Mr. Darcy. A challenge indeed.) Hmm. John Dalton, who was a prominent early 19th century chemist, came up with the idea of partial pressures of gases being additive, and did some of the first work on atomic theory, if I remember correctly. There was quite a few 'gentleman scientists' in Britain at the time who came up with some great stuff. I can see Darcy getting into that sort of thing - it's all controlled and intellectual. He could join the Royal Society and build a lab in an unused wing of Pemberley; work in his lab in slightly stained lawn shirts with rolled up sleeves and a distracted look in his eyes... See, I managed to get back to drool. :) (running away as people pelt her w/ rotten tomatoes) [1] wavelength of sodium light, in nanometers; first discovered by somebody important and it ended up being influential in spectral analysis...

(Laura) work in his lab in slightly stained lawn shirts with rolled up sleeves and a distracted look in his eyes... Wire whisk in hand, beating something... ;-D

(Christine) Guilty Marrieds LOL! I like it, I like it. So, will you keep your new P&P tape set out in the open or stash it where hubby never goes, like next to the vacuum cleaner? Will you be watching your new video when the mood strikes or wait until hubby is safely out of the house? ;-) I think there's a GM here who watches it in the middle of the night when her DH is fast asleep.

"Then I stumbled across the Drool conference and the rest is history." Same here. I have been drooling over CF for years, but had never really been able to find such a lot of good Firthaholic "comrades in arms". The kind who will agree wholeheartedly with your "ravings" on such important matters as which tight breeches are most becoming to Darcy and which Darcy scene is the most drool-worthy. It's too bad we can't have weekly midnight screenings of selected P&P2 episodes (similar to Rocky Horror Picture Shows) where people quote the dialog and dress like their favorite characters. It would be great to have a big group who would sigh and groan and oooh and aaah over the same scenes at once. BJD was v. good for this, but needed to have many more CF scenes to give sufficient fix to Firthaholics. In one of the interviews I read CF comments that he finds leading man/romantic type parts to be boring, but that they make his mum happy. Surely he must know by now that she's not the only one.

Darcy... in his lab... whisk in hand, beating something... ;-D The image that conjures is far from scientific. ;-D next to the vacuum cleaner Are we allowed to mention this particular object now? ;-)

(Heidi) So, will you keep your new P&P tape set out in the open or stash it where hubby never goes, like next to the vacuum cleaner? Will you be watching your new video when the mood strikes or wait until hubby is safely out of the house? (still have not learned how to italicize as the HTML help link is broken...anyone have suggestions?) I boldly watch whenever I please since DH is very indulgent and understanding, if not a little bewildered. Laura, very funny re: lab. It was a stretch, but you managed to bring it back! I was at a dinner party the other night and the topic got round to books and I mentioned that I had just re-read P&P. A woman piped up and said, "Oh, I loved the A&E series! Did you know that actor Colin Firth is featured in People magazine's 50 Most Beautiful? I was surprised but I thought, well he IS, dammit!" I remember thinking to myself, "She must be very intelligent..." ;-)

Instructions have been sent.

Favorite scenes:

sorry...:-(

Gaah! You've been xoom'ed. :-/

For all the P&P obsessives, there is a v. cute story by Karen N.in FF topic #130. Part 3 is posting #850. Lizzie sprains her ankle at Pemberley and has to stay over to recover...

Reading all your comments on the P&P2-subject made me laugh more than I've done in a long time, as I see my own thoughts in yours:) Glad not be alone with this obsession - I believe my family are growing quite tired of me seeing the tapes all the time and talking of CF. Indeed I like all the Darcy-scenes, but one of my favorites are when he says: "You take an eager interest in that gentleman's concerns' and "His misfortunes...yes, his misfortunes have been great indeed.' I find him very powerful (as he knows that he's being wronged). And yes: the eyeroll is quite cute! ;oD

Another thing... what about the scene where Lizzy (during her stay at Netherfield) is walking down the stairs and into the room, where Darcy is playing billiard by himself??

what about the scene where Lizzy (during her stay at Netherfield) is walking down the stairs and into the room, where Darcy is playing billiard by himself?? Erotic...full of symbolism. *sigh*

I've desided to see all my P&P-tapes through again, while I think of what you've been written. Oh my...I can hardly wait, but right now I'm too tired, so it'll have to be tommorow morning. See you then;oD