Brilliant idea Heide. I wonder if those of us who have to wait until Jan 29th will be able to resist a visit now and again? Probably not, with all that talk of goatees and earrings, it will prove more than tempting!!

You're right, Lizza. See? I saw there was a posting here and checked inright away. Though I told myself if it was from someone who saw the film, I wouldn't read it. Yeah, sure.

I am here lurking and looking for any info I can get. Out on this bit of Paradise, we will likely not see it until I purchase the video!!! So, if I collect enough snappies, I just may get some idea of what is going on!

Me? I don't care about "spoilers"....we all know the story anyway. I'll lurk, for sure.

Heide: I can't wait to see this movie. Judi Dench was on Good Morning America this morning talking about her role. THey shouwed a good clip of her and Colin. Rita

Just FYI--the National Board of review named Shakespeare in Love one of the top ten movies this year (#5 to be exact). See, I told you it was good ;-) Here's the complete list: 1. Gods and Monsters 2. Saving Private Ryan 3. Elizabeth 4. Happiness 5. Shakespeare in Love 6. The Butcher Boy 7. Lolita 8. Thin Red Line 9. A Simple Plan 10. Dancing at Lughnasa

I'm so glad 'The Butcher Boy' was included in this list!!! I dragged two friends to see it, after I had already seen it the day before. THey weren't impressed.. but I think you might have had to have grown up Catholic in order to understand. Evelyn, you're right. We all know the story. There really isn't anything to spoil. The only parts that might be a "surprise" are the ones in which Shakespeare takes different elements from his and Viola's late night trysts, and incorporates them into the play. Sort of like the fanfic someone had rewritten a while back, recreating the lines from the Netherfield ball into a Darcy-Lizzy lovemaking exchange.

(winter) The only parts that might be a "surprise" are the ones in which Shakespeare takes different elements from his and Viola's late night trysts, and incorporates them into the play. Even those might not be considered spoilers because we've seen some in the trailers. A balcony scene, the palm to palm dancing (kissing as two pilgrims do), "the show...must go on." I've gotten the idea from seeing Tom Stoppard that their Shakespeare picked up a lot for R&J and 12th Night from things that were going on around him and things other people said. I think I even read somewhere that Will writes down neat phrases that say in regular conversation. So what would be a spoiler? I'd say it would be critical things that might bias an opinion, but then again not. We are all reading the print reviews and sometimes there are critical things there as well.

I think there's plenty to spoil for some people. Then why am I here? I'm not really that concerned about it for myself though I do not want to know if there are any surprises at the end of this movie. I don't want to know intricate plot details. In short, I don't want to know anything I don't already know from the trailer and clips I've seen. And I don't want to know that everything I've seen is all there is to the movie. I do, however, want to hear how he looks, sounds, acts. I'd be happy hearing a out that here or anywhere. Tomorrow is D-Day for NYC and LA.

Gwenythe Paltrow was on Rosie a few minutes ago with a clip of the scene when Wessex tells her that she is to marry him. I can't see where he looks fat, as a matter of fact he is gorgeous. She sauid, "Wessex is played brilliantly by Colin Firth, he is wonderful, he' so funny. Hip Hip hurrah. She said it opens tonight in N.Y and L.A and the rest of the country Christmas day. I must see it he looks too good to be true. SIGH, SIGH SIGH

In the NY Times today there is a v. good review of SIL. It states "Colin Firth plays Viola's fianc� as a perfect Mr. Wrong". That is the only mention of our DB, but it's better than nothing.

Here's a review at film.com ATTENTION SPOILER! No CF mention, but his character is described rather unflattering....

Well, that did not work at all. This is the address in case I fail again: http://www.film.com/ film.com Or, still better, here's the review: Masters on Display | Peter Brunette Though it's hard to imagine something new being said about or done to the Bard of Avon after all these centuries, the delightful Shakespeare in Love proves that when talented people work this vein, there's still plenty of gold left. I had high hopes going into this film, since it was written by the brilliant Tom Stoppard (author of "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead," and a host of other witty plays that utilize a postmodernist approach to classic literature, for laughs as well as for more serious matters), and directed by another Britisher, John Madden, who gave us the very well-done Mrs. Brown two years ago. These talented men do not disappoint. The central conceit of this occasionally profound and frequently hilarious film is that William Shakespeare (Joseph Fiennes) was once a young, unknown playwright, an ink-stained wretch fully engaged in the day-to-day struggle to make a buck, working on a play called "Romeo and Ethel, the Pirate's Daughter." The theater manager (the ubiquitous Geoffrey Rush), wants him to work as many crowd-pleasing pratfalls and funny dogs into his opus as possible, but Will just can't get the words down. Along comes the ever-lovely Gwyneth Paltrow in the person of Viola, a rich but bourgeois young woman who is slated to marry a piggish, impoverished but heavily titled duke, but who would rather embark on an acting career, despite the period's strictures against women on stage. Not surprisingly, romance flares between the Will and Viola, and Stoppard has a grand old time interweaving the plot of their love story with the emerging masterpiece, now happily re-titled "Romeo and Juliet." Madden keeps the editing and movement at and beyond an MTV pace, accompanied by a nonstop flurry of sight gags and restrained slapstick, and my guess is that this film is going to be popular among high-school English teachers searching, as ever, for ways to make the Bard relevant to their image-addled, print-challenged charges. The director also gets a lot of comic mileage out of the cross-dressing that was an unexceptionable feature of the Elizabethan stage. Stoppard's luxuriant, richly comic language cascades and washes over you, and, for once, more than keeps pace with the sprightly pictures. The constant, purposeful anachronisms, both verbal and visual, are wonderful and the usual problem with mounting Shakespeare--how to handle the famous bits of dialogue--is here wittily milked for its rich comic potential. The playwright also indulges himself in some in-crowd jokes (for example, having John Webster, the notorious author of some very grotesque plays, pop up throughout the film as a sicko teenager who likes "the bloody parts"), but that's just added pleasure for the cognoscenti that others won't even notice. Fiennes, Ralph's younger brother, is convincing and utterly charming as the feckless but promising playwright, though he needs to do something contemporary if he's not to be typecast as an Elizabethan (he was Elizabeth's lover in the recent film about her early days as monarch). Paltrow, on the other hand, has such a classic physiognomy and beauty that she seems more at home in period than contemporary roles. Here, she's fine as Viola, but when she actually acts Shakespeare (sporting a cute, pasted-on moustache) she is less than convincing. The same can be said for Ben Affleck -- who plays an egocentric actor whom Will Shakespeare entices into the role of Romeo's famously slain kinsman by telling him that the play is to be called "Mercutio" -- but his American-bred robustness and affability carry the day anyway. The action does drag a bit on occasion, and the film could have been nipped and tucked here and there, but when Stoppard and Madden contrive to make a happy ending out of a sad one, by segueing magnficently from "Romeo and Juliet" into the Bard's next play, "Twelfth Night," you know that Shakespeare is not the only master on display here.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, one of the clips showed someone on horseback riding toward a castle (?) Was it Wessex? Do you know the scene?

Yes, I believe it was.

Yes, I believe it was. Kinda scary when you know a guy's backside and riding style that well! ;-)

I can't resist. I'm going home tonight, and swore I wouldn't have time to fritter away with my pals on this site, but I saw the movie on Friday AND IT'S WONDERFUL. Great fun - well acted, directed and, above all, written. It makes such a difference to have at least a passably well-done screenplay. CF is very good and there are plenty of scenes for you lot to dissect. I think Fiennes is good too, and Paltrow is, as the cliched film hacks say, "luminous". One oddity was the reaction of the audience. The film is bloody funny, true, and there are some good gags, especially early on. (There are not, thank God, TOO many jokes about 20th century references in the 16th cent. A few are amusing, and, no doubt, essential to draw in an audience many of whom would run away from Shakespeare unless, for the sake of being "relevant", he is made to eat at Wendy's and listen to the Spice Girls. There are also plenty of cute references to his plays.) BUT, it is also very p ignant, and there were some weirdly misplaced titters at some points. Anyway, all in all, a great show. I would put it in my top three films of the last couple of years (the others are LA Confidential and The Butcher Boy). So, you should perhaps allow a couple of days to talk about script/screenplay/acting/direction/cinematography and then proceed to Colin's deep brown eyes/ tight buns, which I suppose will take a year. (;-)).

(Ben) Colin's deep brown eyes/tight buns, which I suppose will take a year. (;-)). Since this is ***THE SPOILER*** topic, are those tight buns visible? Inquiring minds want to know. If so, I will want to lay in my supplies for that yearlong discussion!

(Ben)There are not, thank God, TOO many jokes about 20th century references in the 16th cent. A few are amusing, and, no doubt, essential to draw in an audience many of whom would run away from Shakespeare unless, for the sake of being "relevant", he is made to eat at Wendy's and listen to the Spice Girls. As I sit here eating my biggie fries and bleu cheese chicken sandwich, I think that I resemble that person. Oh, Spice Girls just popped on the radio, as I read, Twelfth Night (or what you will). (I'm not really, already read it and had bagel for lunch;)) Okay, Tom Stoppard I'm not. I don't understand why people think that the masses won't get the jokes? We are not all entirely ignorant. Do some of us not have faith in the American cinema-going public??? And Ben, GP as luminous, don't you think she resembles a Barbie doll? Ben have wonderful trip to Old Blighty, eat, drink or be merry and have wonderful holiday!

Renate, thanks for posting that review. Ben, is there a hint here that you are transferring your affections from JE to GP ? You have already seen that those tight buns attract the "best" leading ladies. Will you be staking out JE's London pad after all this holiday? Actually for "Luminous" read "flavour of the year" or as Laura said a bit of a Barbie!!

(Laura) I don't understand why people think that the masses won't get the jokes? We are not all entirely ignorant. Isn't the "Jaywalking" segment your favorite? And isn't there a famous quote about no one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American public????? I just look at the glazed over eyes of my high-school nieces and the groans I hear whenever I mention any British author, movie, television show, etc., and immediately understand what Miramax is trying to counter in its PR for this movie. They've got a major uphill battle, but at least the critics are helping them out. Do some of us not have faith in the American cinema-going public??? If you asked your average person on the street about Romeo and Juliet, they'd say it was a movie with Leonardo di Caprio...maybe.

Re: SIL... what Miramax is trying to counter in its PR for this movie. They've got a major uphill battle, but at least the critics are helping them out. I must say that GP and Ben Affleck have worked overtime in publicizing this film; they've made it cool and hip. With that title, and a heavy British cast....this movie was headed down the tubes in the US. Great strategy, Harvey. Now we want it repeated for MLSF!!

From VARIETY December 14th: As the year-end award season got under way, a number of newly minted specialized releases showed early B.O. promise, most notably Miramax�s critically-acclaimed �Shakespeare in Love,� which wooed $220,000 on eight stages in New York and L.A. for a snappy $27,500 average.

Nursie... The movie is fantastic, and Colin has much more screen time than I had imagined. He is there from beginning to end. About the only scenes he's missing from are the ones of Will and Viola in bed (and there are lots of those). There are so many funny bits and sly jabs at the acting profession and movie/theater business, which many people miss. Ben Affleck is very good as the vain leading actor and his accent works just fine. I hadn't known who Jim Carter was exactly, but when I saw Mathieu from The Advocate, looking the same as he did, I couldn't believe it. He plays an actor who plays the Nurse in R&J. Well that's all for now. Will continue later.

From the Orange County Register (as referred to me by KJart or the other Karen): Biting the Bard that feeds them REVIEW: Strong supporting performances can't save 'Shakespeare's' slow pacing. December 11, 1998 By HENRY SHEEHAN The Orange County Register 'Shakespeare in Love' Stars: Joseph Fiennes, Gwyneth Paltrow, Geoffrey Rush Behind the scenes: Directed by John Madden; written by Marc Norman and Tom Stoppard; produced by David Parfitt, Donna Gigliotti, Harvey Weinstein, Edward Zwick, Norman Playing: Opens today at Edwards South Coast Village Rating: R for sexuality Grade: B- Running time:2 hours You might like it if: You liked "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead." There were many hands at work concocting "Shakespeare in Love," a romantic comedy based on the fictional premise that a real-life love affair propelled the playwright, at a crucial stage in his young, as yet uncelebrated, career, into writing "Romeo and Juliet." So, as you might expect, it's a bit of a patchwork affair, with wonderfully funny or touching moments suddenly giving way to stretches of dull overstatement or misbegotten attempts to reveal the playwright's sources of inspiration. But for its first half, at least, the movie is a lively entertainment, full of wit and, if not fully romantic, then at least romantically ambitious. The second half of the feature comes nowhere near the first's achievements, not an insignificant failure in a movie which is fully two hours long. But it does pull itself together for a "surprise" ending whose blatant employment of a grossly improbable dramatic invention to save the day may, on the one hand, be charitably read as a sly reference to Shakespeare's own fondness for such devices. For this, and for the sprightly verbal inventions that sprinkle the script, it's tempting to credit Tom Stoppard, the popularly intellectual playwright ("Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead," "Travesties") who did a significant rewrite of a screenplay first penned by Marc Norman (whose more humble credits include "Waterworld"). But then, you'd have to also lay the blame for some verbal clunkers at Stoppard's feet, as the movie displays an almost compulsive need to drop a not-so-clever reference to the genesis of Shakespeare's plays or dialogue into nearly every street-corner conversation. Best then to concentrate on the laugh-embroidered romance, enacted by a matinee-idol style Joseph Fiennes (younger brother of Ralph) who plays young Shakespeare, and Gwyneth Paltrow, whose over-familiar tricks are roughly in sync with a young gentlewoman, Viola De Lesseps, who yearns for a career on stage. When the movie opens, Shakespeare is doing a bit of dramatic yearning himself. Still considered a junior rival to the more well-known Christopher Marlowe (Rupert Everett), Shakespeare's need for cash has led him to accept a double commission: one, from his regular impresario, Philip Henslowe (Geoffrey Rush), for a romance called "Romeo and Ethel the Pirate's Daughter," and the other for a comedy for Henslowe's rival, Richard Burbage (Richard Clunes). Henslowe's need is the more pressing, since he has a we lthy merchant, Hugh Fennyman (Tom Wilkinson), after him for debts, and he's not above stooping to torture in his collections. Into this crucible of pressure, heightened by the playwright's inner need to make a splash, walks Viola, the stagestruck daughter of a wealthy merchant. Having seen Shakespeare's plays at the court of Queen Elizabeth (Judi Dench), she has fallen in love with the sensibility behind the poetry. When she disguises herself as a boy, Thomas Kemp, to take part in the Elizabethan Age's male-only universe of actors, she finds herself cast as Romeo. And when Shakespeare finally discovers that the young boy who so trangely stirs his fancy is actually a young woman, he not only pursues her with an ardency that challenges social order, but begins to transform the play into the passionate tragedy it became. The movie gets considerable pep from its supporting characters. Rush and Wilkinson make for a particularly fine comic team and Dench brings a sense of dramatic risk the overall action requires. But Colin Firth is also excellent, in a more straightforward part as the proud, if bankrupt nobleman who has planned to wed Viola and her fortune, even if it means running through an inconvenient playwright with his sword. It's when these supporting players are not around for contrast and the lovers are on their own that the movie sags. For some reason, director John Madden seems unsure that audiences will understand Shakespeare's literary inspiration arises from his own love affair, and so wastes many minutes cutting between Will and Viola's lovemaking and play rehearsals long after the point has been made. Then, too, Fiennes is livelier when his amorous advances are punctuated with comedy or action, while Paltrow's three asic facial expressions would be better parceled out over a longer period of time. Your final assessment of "Shakespeare in Love" is bound to rest on how much its slowdown gets to you. If you find it easy to endure, you'll be left with the memory of a lively age vividly evoked, colorful and attractive characters skillfully portrayed, and love and laughs available in generous proportions. If, on the other hand, it knocks you off the rails, you may begin to focus on Madden's pedestrian, TV-style direction or become annoyed by the screenplay's self-congratulatory cleverness (one joke, about future Jacobean dramatist John Webster, the author of corpse-strewn extravaganzas like "The Duchess of Malfi," appearing as a bloodthirsty boy is repeated over and over). There's probably a quote from Shakespeare that refers to this kind of dilemma, but you'll have to search your library, or see the movie, to discover what it is.

Dame Winter, firstly I just wanted to add my admiration and thanks for your efforts on our behalf at the Special Screening of SIL in LA., you were very brave and your report was riverting. I hope he attends the London Premiere in which case I may make the trip to London but I can't imagine myself going anywhere near him. I hope you don't mind my asking but I have been dying to know how Colin's performance in SIL compares with his other roles, I have to wait until the end of January to decide for myself nd would love to hear your opinion, Hope this is not too cheeky from a newcomer.

I can't believe that negative review. I saw the movie the weekend it opened in New York and I LOVED it. In fact, I plan to see it again with another friend. GP doesn't turn me on (duh!), but I thought she was wonderful. CF's portrayal of an Elizabethan creep was terrific, and Joseph Fiennes does things to me that his brother never could. I must admit, however, that I just don't get Ben Affleck. He's another androgynous child as far as I'm concerned. GP seems to like males who look as if they won't s art shaving for a couple of years yet. Not me! Give me CF or Joseph Fiennes any day!

Joseph Fiennes does things to me that his brother never could. LOL, today is Count Almushy's 36th birthday too:) Joe Fiennes' star is definitely rising. I see him as the hottest thing to hit the American Shores since.... Ralph Fiennes;)

I've seen it!!! Yea!!! Joseph Fiennes does things to me that his brother never could. Absolutely. Ralph has never done anything for me, he's always seemed passionless and wooden, but little Joey doesn't have that problem. Gwenyth -- Got sick of her English = nasal accent Affleck -- Nice part and nicely done Rupert -- Good to see him with less hair. Colin -- I think I could settle for him if I couldn't have Shakespeare ;-) I liked it quite a bit, but I thought it seemed a little slow at times. Part of that is the fact that I think love scenes tend to slow movies down. They are almost never interesting (The Tall Guy with Emma Thompson is one humerous exception.)

Saw it finally! Just read the review, Karen. Too early for me to make a fiar assessment, most of my film viewing moments were waiting for Colin to come on screen or watching his every facial expression while he was on screen. I'll see it again it 2 weeks but I see some justification in the reviewer's assessment of Viola and Will's scenes. But Joe Fiennes was excellent! Have to agree that he blows his brother away. Did like all the asides and innuendo in the script though I'm sure I missed many. Like the bits about show business: (Henslowe) "The show must...you know..." (Shakespeare) "Go on!" And the priest (or whoever he was always outside the theatre) constantly spouting about "the business of show". (Ann) Colin -- I think I could settle for him if I couldn't have Shakespeare ;-) Absolutely. The colonies didn't look that bad. (Ann W) I have been dying to know how Colin's performance in SIL compares with his other roles It's probably too early for me to really say but considering that he's playing a character with absolutely no redeeming qualities and did it without overplaying it or stretching it out for laughs speaks well to me. My first impression, of course, is his curly locks are looking fine, that voice makes me melt as always, and I really like the earring. Plus anytime Colin is using his sword is a happy day for me. ;-)

(Heide)Plus anytime Colin is using his sword is a happy day for me. ;-) Well, well, well and from reading topic 34, I think I know where your head was during the sword scenes;)

Colin plays something of a baffoon again. I don't know why he keeps getting cast in those sorts of roles. I thought he made his character more multifaceted than the script might have called for. I kinda liked Wessex, though he was a bit thick.

Ann, from reading your comments and one over at Darcy Dilliriums, I am afraid that by taking this role Colin will alienate many of his fans (not me he can do no wrong as far as I am concerned), what do you think? BTW I have not seen it yet I have to wait until the 29th Jan. Also its a shame that if he had to take this unpopular role that he has not been noticed by the critis who by and large have ignored him and mentioned other supporting roles as being worthy. I'm really sorry to sound so pessimistic but I think like everyone else I had such high hopes for him in this film.

by th critics (of course) sorry

I have just seen SIL also. This is a magnificent film....one that any actor would want in his resume. The script is so fast paced, it is electric.Tom Stoppard and Marc Norman.should win an award for the screenplay The ensemble casting flawless..It well deserved all the kudos it is receiving. I thought GP and JF were superb.Great chemistry. (I happen to like brother Rafe more...puts more gravitas in his acting. But Joe is young) Colin's part is small,but he is in it from start to finish. Always looks gorgeous. He played the role perfectly without overdoing it. I have two tips for anyone who has not seen it: 1. Do NOT let anyone divulge the ending. 2. Do Not wait to see this film on video. Must be seen on big screen. You will feel you are back in 16C. England. The sounds of the crowd in particular. I felt I was in the audience of the Rose Theatre.Sound Track a must to own. I think this film will win many awards. The theatre was 99% full when I saw it. Everyone laughed at the right time, and people stayed to see the credits!! I would rather see Colin in this film than in a starring role of a B film.

Ann, from reading your comments and one over at Darcy Dilliriums } I don't know if I've ever been there, so that might be another Ann.

OK, I've seen it three (3) times now!! And Joe Fiennes gets better and better. The more you watch him and listen to him, he puts GP to shame. Initially, you write it off to the fact that she is playing a man when she's reciting Romeo's lines, but later, when she's doing Juliet, she just doesn't compare. Don't get me wrong, she brings quite a bit to the role and their chemistry is fantastic, but Joe is something else. (And you all know how much I detest the big bro.) Re: Colin as Wessex. After seeing SiL the second time, I went home and watched Valmont. After the third time, I watched Fever Pitch. I needed a Colin-as-cutie chaser after a tall and cold Wessex.

Ann, I'm sorry if I confused you what I meant was that your comments re Colin being cast as a buffoon tied in with another fan's similar comments at Darcy Deliriums and I was afraid that he may be losing fans by accepting such unsympathetic roles. Do you you still consider your self a CF fan after seeidng him in SIL. the same question to Karen.

Sorry about the typing errors.

Ann W, of course I consider myself a Colin fan. I am just troubled that the last two roles he has had in major motion pictures (TEP and SiL) may become a continuing trend. It would be a shame because he is capable of so much more. Another thought could be that Colin is purposely taking these roles to get away from the period drama romantic lead typecasting that he mentioned before. If that's the case, then he has succeeded.

I absolutely agree Karen that Colin is capable of so much more than a small supporting role and I think the Producers think so to or otherwise why would they give him such high billing, fourth in the credits seems higher than the role would warrant. re your second paragraph, if you are right then I am very sorry.

Too not to, sorry again

So Evelyn, when you left the theatre, were you remarking loudly about what a fine actor that Colin Firth is? I dropped his name a few times but the audience in the theater I was in was sparse. This was Saturday at the 12:15 pm showing. Figures these local neanderthals wouldn't see a film with the word "Shakespeare" in it. (Karen) After the third time, I watched Fever Pitch. I needed a Colin-as-cutie chaser after a tall and cold Wessex. LOL. So right. Not that Wessex's bad looking but I think you've got the "cold" part down pat and I wasn't particularly enamoured of him to see him scrambling away from the Queen like a little roach. Ann W, you've brought up some interesting points and if you bring them over to 116 others may want to share in the discussion too. For me, I'd say if someone is turned off Colin because of this role, then they aren't really an admirer of his acting talent, just his looks. I see what you mean about his past choices of roles. He's in few mainstream movies but the ones we've seen of him in the past few years he's played the cad, Simon Westwood in Circle of Friends, the buffoon, Geoffrey Clinton in EP, and now Lord Wessex. People I know who have seen P&P can not believe that this is the same actor who has played these roles. That's where a dose of Fever Pitch is needed and that kind of role would be the one I'd love to see him do again. So Evelyn, when you say you'd rather see him in a role like SiL than a leading role in a B movie I'd agree that I like him in this but if Fever Pitch is a B movie (what do you think?), I'd rather have him do that. That's just me, though. The more I read the above, the more I think if we continue this thread, we should continue at 116. Evelyn, would you prefer we not talk about the ending here? It's okay by me.

For those of us who still haven't seen it; although Gwyneth and Bennie boy have been all over Boston and Cambridge. They have been everywhere and the fans are having the greatest time of it!

(Laura) Gwyneth and Bennie boy have been all overBoston and Cambridge. Those tow kids have worked their buns off promoting SIL. And Ben Affleck is terrific. His British accent is fine and he delivers his lines with great skill..he has a natural timing that plays to comedy.I was v. impressed. (Heide)Evelyn, would you prefer we not talk about the ending here? Heide, I would hate for anyone who has not seen SIL to come upon a discussion of the ending on this board. I know before I saw it I could not resist clicking on here. Thanks to everyone for not spoiling it for me.But, you're the boss:-) (Heide)So Evelyn, when you say you'd rather see him in a role like SiL than a leading role in a B movie I'd agree that I like him in this but if Fever Pitch is a B movie But how many people have seen FP? I'm just talking about exposure.SIL and TEP are timeless films. Any actor would be a fool to pass either one up. I agree this belongs in 116. (Heide) when you left the theatre, were you remarking loudly about what a fine actor that Colin Firth is? I dropped his name a few times but the audience in the theater I was in was sparse My theatre was 4 seats short of sold out....maybe 400 people. And yes, I did remark about CF's performance. The man next to me said: "The whole damn cast was good".I was v. proud of the mid-America audience... We tend to patronize the great "unwashed", but they recognize excellence.

The Sunday NY TIMES rated SIL #5 among the Best Films of 1998. "5. 'SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE' Mischievously literate Elizabethans, hilarious backstage farce and the sultry teamwork of Joseph Fiennes and Gwyneth Paltrow (as passionate prototypes for Romeo and Juliet) made this the most enchanting entertainment of the year. With a sparkling screenplay by Tom Stoppard and Marc Norman, John Madden's film had the temerity to speculate about Shakespeare's life on the basis of his work. Rarely has such presumptuousness paid off so shamelessly well. Amid a splendid supporting ast, the stars shone even more brightly than Sandy Powell's spectacular costumes.

I agree with those who don't think Ralph Fiennes is the second coming, and would also like to put in a word for those of us who didn't like TEP. I started looking at my watch after around 10-15 minutes. CF was wasted in this film. I hadn't even realized he was in it. I was so bored that my mind started to wander and all of a sudden it hit me that Kristin Scott-Thomas' jerky husband was being played by - of all people - Mr. Darcy! I took a little more interest from then on, but not much. I thought th movie was far too stupid to pay serious attention to. In fact, I thought it was the most boring film I could remember seeing. Until Titanic, that is. But that is a rant for another time and another place.

I have just ordered the sound track of SIL from Tower Records; SIL #63387 $18.94 Total Tower records 1-800-648-4844 (This is a UK company so the London one must have it too) Neither Barnes & Noble or Amazon.com have the screenplay yet. But coming.. :-)

That's a lot of money for a soundtrack, Evelyn.

I must admit I have some sympathy with Julie P.'s point of view.

About discussing the ending here....the whole point of the topic is for those who have seen it, to be able to talk about it without spoiling it for others. The people who are visiting here, I am assuming, aren't concerned with finding out what happens in the film or they wouldn't be here. I would like to discuss the ending at some point because I think we'll find there are two very different opinions as to what happened. Other thoughts...? I'd prefer this be as democratic as possible. (Laura) For those of us who still haven't seen it; What? Please 'splain, Laura. Julie, you'll get no argument from me either, especially about Titanic, but yes, that's a whole other rant.

(Laura)That's a lot of money for a soundtrack, Evelyn. Unless one goes to Best Buy or Cost Plus that's the going rate for mail order CDs($18.75). And hey, if you lived in UK you'd be paying that in UKP!! Sorry,... I liked TEP, RF, and Titanic. And I don't feel like I'm not being a faithful fan of Colin's. I see every one of his films at the cinemas. Thursday I'm taking a carful for the second time to see SIL.I just think there is a lot of excellence out there.And I'm not afraid to acknowledge it.But...that's my opinion.

Do you you still consider your self a CF fan after seeidng him in SIL. } Well, I've always been a semi-fan of his. (I'm a bit of a heritic on this site.) I likes AMITC, Valmont, and P&P, but he has shown som poor choices in the films he gets--or is offered. I know he went through that Meg-Tilly induced dry period, but lately his small, supporting, almost-background roles have also been disappointing career choices.

Okay, I SAW IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I..... LOVED IT!!!! The sight gags, the wordplay, swordplay, Joe Fiennes (WOW!), Rupert Everett(small part, I know, but so damn handsome!) and of course, Mr. Evil incarnate himself, Wessex.... Colin Firth was hysterical! I laughed at just about every scene he was in. Making an arse out of himself sometimes, but... There was one scene in which he turns and I totally expected him to spew forth "And this is the reply I am to expect!" He had the exact same look! Gwyneth Paltrow was luminous, but she still reminds me of a Barbie Doll! Ben Affleck, was hysterical. And the dog... Well there has to be a dog I guess. I saw SIL in Cambridge with all the literarati so they got ALL the jokes, however, I was the only one who laughed at the Tobacco futures! (I think because I work in the financial biz?) CF delivered that line so deadpan! it was perfection. Anyway, must see it again, for the lines I MISSED from laughing so hard!

ugh

ugh!!!!

Good Morning America just listed SIL as #3 on the Best Films of the Year. his small, supporting,almost-background roles have also been disappointing career choices. I am reminded of an interview I saw with Judi Dench who said she told John Madden (director) that she would be in any of his films.... even to walk the dog!! I think actors select roles on a different level. And hey...write to the guy...tell him you don't like his current roles.. After all it's his fans who put the pasta on the table.

Laura, what did you do to our font??? Close whatever tag you opened, please!!

Looks like it's ok now. Bizarre. Anyway, I'd like to discuss the ending as there seems to be some difference of opinion. I'm on the side that the ending is all in Shakespeare's mind. He is writing Twelfth Night and this is what he is visualizing taking place. I never took it for what actually happened to Viola and Wessex enroute to America. The only reason it is GP on shore is that Viola will always live in his imagination as he writes his plays. Anybody else?

It did look like CF in the water, tho???? I did close the tags several times!!!! everytime I did UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ah, normality, if one can call it that! Okay, re: Ending. definitely what Karen said. but in Twelfth Night, Viola is NOT the only survivor, her brother Sebastian and his man, ugh, can't remember name yet, survive also. Actually a whole entourage of people survive! Anyway, "If music be the food of love, play on...." a play on that was in the movie too!

Yeah, but they don't wash up on the same beach. Remember they are separated until the end.

Another thing, Wessex didn't say "tobacco futures" he said he thought it had a future. A little different, Laura. I thought it was pretty funny that way as well. ;-)

I know that, actually he did say tobacco futures but before he says there is a future in Tobacco;) hee hee.

But future doesn't mean necessarily "financial futures." I'd go with the simple on this one. Stoppard may not be a pit denizen.

(Laura) Mr. Evil incarnate himself, Wessex.... Colin Firth was hysterical! I laughed at just about every scene he was in. Making an arse out of himself sometimes, but... And I think he had great fun with the character. My fav scence is toward the end, just outside the church, when the R&J playbill smacked him in the face, just before GP escapes back to the play. I LOVE this movie! (Karen) I'm on the side that the ending is all in Shakespeare's mind. He is writing Twelfth Night and this is what he is visualizing taking place. I never took it for what actually happened to Viola and Wessex enroute to America. The only reason it is GP on shore is that Viola will always live in his imagination as he writes his plays. I'll buy that. In this case, Wessex may be the loser, but he gets the girl in the end. (Evelyn) I think actors select roles on a different level. Actors and other creative types usually follow their emotional rather than intellectual instincts. The lucky ones have the right management. And don't forget, stardom does not equal happiness.

(Karen)I never took it for what actually happened to Viola and Wessex enroute to America. The only reason it is GP on shore is that Viola will always live in his imagination as he writes his plays. Anybody else? Aw, Karen...I think you're reaching for it. I'm the literate kind.... Essex and Viola are both in that water and both die. It's her ghost walking on the beach. Isn't that just like Tom Stoppard to write such a controversial ending? I hope he has his Oscar speech ready.

test

oh f**k!

again?

I don't think there was a shipwreck at the end either. I think it's just a device to move forward to Twelfth Night. His inspiration was already the cross dressing Viola did - Shakespeare has to continue the story now from his own imagination. I think the scene of Viola walking on the shore alone was more symbolic than real. I thought the narrative said that there was a survivor in this fabled shipwreck. (Am I wrong, Karen? You've seen this more times than anybody.) If Viola really had survived a shipwreck, do you think she'd just be walking aimlessly forever - that no one would have returned her to England? Is this the ending some people don't want to discuss?

Sequel, Sequel, Sequel!!! Tricky Tom is setting us up here (heehee)

(Heide) I thought the narrative said that there was a survivor in this fabled shipwreck. I believe you are correct. Haven't bought the screenplay yet, as it hasn't hit the stores yet. (Am I wrong, Karen? You've seen this more times than anybody.) Well more than anyone else posting on this board.... ;-) If Viola really had survived a shipwreck, do you think she'd just be walking aimlessly forever - that no one would have returned her to England? The Viola of Shakespeare's imagination (and Twelfth Night) washes up on shore in Illyria or something like that, not Miami Beach. In the actual play, she is not alone, but with the Captain and a bunch of sailors. The disparity here may just be that this was his first draft. He then figured out that he needed her to have companions who would be able to dress her up like a boy. ;-) A couple of times I thought I found mistakes with the script (like the Henry number that Affleck uses) but they have been very true to the facts as they are known. However, if anyone is going to see SiL soon, please pay attention to the Scene number that Shakespeare writes at the end as he begins. I thought he wrote "Scene 1. The Sea Coast." That scene is actually Scene 2. (Evelyn) I hope he has his Oscar speech ready. I agree, he cannot lose. Only members of the Writers Guild vote in this category and they would most certainly appreciate the full extent of the script. I would be embarrassed for Marc Norman though. It would appear that his only contribution was the idea (from his son) and maybe the "Pirate's Daughter" part of the title. ;-)

(Karen), The Viola of Shakespeare's imagination (and Twelfth Night) washes up on shore in Illyria or something like that, not Miami Beach. In the actual play, she is not alone, but with the Captain and a bunch of sailors. The disparity here may just be that this was his first draft. He then figured out that he needed her to have companions who would be able to dress her up like a boy. Very true Karen and the cross dressing once more would tie it nicely to Romeo & Juliet. Heide, not only did it say there was a survivor, we saw her as the survivor. I would like to add what a wonderful job Colin did on horseback. It is not easy to ride with the heavy costume and effortlessly jump off and continue a scene. He played the chump once more and that was disappointing, frankly, I do not understand how Livia could see SIL so many times. But then again, all she has to do is look at him and he smiles back. I miss his smiles. Joe F is certainly a discovery after SIL and E. Karen, how many times have you seen it?

(Karen) The disparity here may just be that this was his first draft. That's the assumption I would make and a perfectly plausible one it is. In my case, when I say Viola walking on the beach, I mean Viola of SiL, not of Twelfth Night. In other words, if there was indeed a shipwreck and Viola was the only survivor, (hence Will's inspiration for his next play) why would she not be returned to England? Since I think it implausible that she would remain in the colonies, I think the shipwreck is when Will's imagination kicks in and his inspiration is only Viola dressing like a man. From then on it's all Shakespeare. Whew! A lot of words to explain one viewpoint. There are definitely two interpretations of the ending of this film, though. So anyone who hasn't seen it and really didn't want to know the ending, know that at least you can come up with your own understanding of what actually happened at the end. (Karen) I would be embarrassed for Marc Norman though. It would appear that his only contribution was the idea (from his son) and maybe the "Pirate's Daughter" part of the title. ;-) I missed that one. Must be why he's kept such a low profile. I hope he makes a very gracious acceptance speech. So would those of you who have seen this say that Viola's mother was truly distraught to see her married and gone away? Or was it a show? Kind of like Mrs. Bennet. I loved Colin's rolled eyes at her sobbing when he came to pick up his money from her father.

Welcome back Moon! He played the chump once more and that was disappointing.. Well we certainly know he can do it to perfection. Maybe he'll start looking for a new challenge - the hero!

Yes Welcome back Moon, I hope you don't think this is cheeky of me as I am a relative newcomer but I was wondering as Colin may be in the US this weekemd, is there any chance that he may answer the questions, sorry to be so pushy. I must say that by reading everyone's disappointment at him playing the chump that I am not looking forward to to 29th January, quite as much as I was. However, it certainly shows what a great actor he is , a chameleon among actors and he is said to have had great fun doing it and that is the main thing.

What a mishmash, I really don't know what happened, please let me repeat my posting. Welcome back Moon, I hope you don't think this is cheeky of me as I am a relative newcomer but I was wondering as Colin may be in the US this weekend, whether there is any chance that he may answer the questions, sorry to be so pushy but I am dying to know if he has any future projects in mind, I want to move on from SIL as I regret I am not looking froward to it as much as I was in view of everyone's disappointment as his playing the chump, however, it shows what a versatile actor he is and he is said to have had great fun doing it and that is the main thing.

Hello Ann W, so happy to meet you. I too am waiting for Colin to answer and we must be patient (always a good New Years Resolution). It is hard I know. I do not think the A&E interview is live so he could be anywhere. My guess is that he is in Italy. Heide do you think there is a sequel in the making by the way they ended SIL?

You sure sound like you're hoping, Moon, but I don't think the ending was left open for the possibility of a sequel. An ending filled with questions is always more tantalizing than an ending tightly wrapped. Sequels rarely live up to the original anyway. I don't think I'd like to see one in this case. By the way, since it's not always easy to write to you ;-), the questions were re-sent to London on 12/22.

It is only because I am starved for good films that I wonder if there might be a sequel. I look forward to a Firthfilled New Year!

(Heide) In my case, when I say Viola walking on the beach, I mean Viola of SiL, not of Twelfth Night. In other words, if there was indeed a shipwreck and Viola was the only survivor, (hence Will's inspiration for his next play) why would she not be returned to England? Since I think it implausible that she would remain in the colonies, I think the shipwreck is when Will's imagination kicks in and his inspiration is only Viola dressing like a man. From then on it's all Shakespeare. I don't follow. Need more coffee.

Just say you agree with me, Karen. ;-) I'm afraid if I keep on, I'll dig myself an even deeper hole in the sand.

( Heide)I think the shipwreck is when Will's imagination kicks in and his inspiration is only Viola I agree. Just saw it second time. Shipwreck scene...(even with a male that looked like Essex) is in Will's imagination. Earlier in the film he talks about this to Viola as a dream he had.The shipwreck scene then acts as his inspiration for Twelfth Night:Scene 1. The coast.

I'm with you, Heide and Evelyn, the shipwreck was entirely in Will's imagination. It was the only way he could cope with Viola leaving with Wessex. Remember, the scene starts with Will writing away, then fades to the shipwreck. I don't think there will be a sequel. I made a quick scan of the comments. I noted one about Colin's horseback riding, but how about his singing? I was LOL. Shorter than 'yes, we have no bananas,' but equally entertaining! I will definitely have to see this again. I missed alot. I was glad to see so much of Colin, even if he was the bad guy. I enjoyed hearing the rest of the audience (small, since I was at a matinee) chuckle and grunt when he was left alone in the carraige after the wedding. The more people dislike Wessex, the better Colin is at doing his job! He can get so much across with his facial expressions. I've always known this, but it seemed instantaneous in this movie.

The CD of SIL is **wonderful**. I bet Stephen Warbeck who composed the original score gets an Oscar Nomination. The CD features two themes involving Wessex: #9 The Arrival of Wessex #17 Wessex Loses a Bride. Didn't you love it after the wedding when he says to the guests: "You all come and visit us in Virginia".Then he goes into the carriage and is alone.....reminiscent of Geoffrey Clifton waiting for Katherine in the taxi!! She doesn't show up either. This guy says he hates to be stereotyped ...so what does he call those two roles in a row!

(Evelyn) Didn't you love it after the wedding when he says to the guests: "You all come and visit us in Virginia".Then he goes into the carriage and is alone.... Yes, that is my new favorite scene. I'm still laughing out loud while I'm reading your description of it, Evelyn. Like he really wants these people to come visit him in Virginia. "you all" I'm curious... so she leaves him alone in the carriage. At this point, what's to stop him from just leaving her there and continuing on alone? I'd guess you'd have to say it was his pride - I suppose the money was his by then.

Siskel and Ebert have put out their top ten lists for 1998: Siskel #5 = SIL (#1=Babe Pig in the City) Ebert #8 = SIL (#1=Dark City)

I finally saw it this weekend (twice!) I really enjoyed the film and thought CF was a great villain. With an actor of lesser talent, Wessex could have been a cartoon, but CF made him seem real. Just not very likeable! I just wish there had been more of him. Maybe I got my hopes up too high by reading other's posts but the role was a smaller than I realized. I agree Evelyn and Heide that the carriage scene was hysterical. I also loved the way he said "You are allowed to show your pleasure." Too funny.

For those of you who missed the interview, following is a URL that will lead you to the transcription (as well as I could do it) and appropriate Snappies. Enjoy :-) http://firth.com/html/bwaintvw.html

(Eileen) I noted one about Colin's horseback riding, but how about his singing? I was LOL. Shorter than 'yes, we have no bananas,' but equally entertaining! Wasn't that a little surprise. I know this is the SPOILER topic, but when I've talked to other Colin people I still haven't divulged that little bit. Don't know why... Other parts I haven't told people about are the "ghost" scene and the flat-footed running.

We are all devoted to Colin and his acting ability but perhaps less enthralled with his character, Lord Wessex. From the interview, we've gathered he was up for Will in 1992. He was just 31/32 -not too old then, I don't think, but he certainly would be in 1998. Question: If Colin could not play Will, and if he hadn't played Wessex, is there any other role in this film you would have preferred he play?

Queen Elizabeth? I think I would've liked to have seen him in that get up:)

How about Ben Affleck's role? A bit smaller, but more agreeable, wouldn't you say? I couldn't imagine him as anyone else. What would they have done to his teeth (i.e., Goeffrey Rush, Judi Dench)?? Hah! I would have loved to see Colin as Will (you're right, he wasn't too old) but regret is completely offset by realization that in '92, it wasn't this script or this director. Julia Roberts was to be Viola. The thought of this movie "Hollywood-ized" leaves me cold. Hmmmm, perhaps a comet would have smashed into the Globe theater? BTW, I saw "You've Got Mail" yesterday solely for P&P references. SiL is a *MUCH* better movie.

I agree, I think Colin would have been smashing as the vain actor Ned Allyn that Ben Affleck played. It would have been something we haven't seen him do yet, or has there been a part like that? The neat thing about the Ned Allyn role is that he comes off very well, putting the play finally ahead of his own ego and we like him for that. When I said that Colin was too old for the part of Will Shakespeare, that didn't mean he is too old in anyway to do romantic leads. Playing against a Julie Roberts, his age (32) wouldn't have been a problem, but against a Gwyneth Paltrow, definitely. Much as Colin still has his boyish good looks (that we last saw in FP), they would have looked at the whole picture (Gwyneth and her leading man together) and frankly Joe F as made up to be WS looks right.

I agree, I think Colin would have been smashing as the vain actor Ned Allyn that Ben Affleck played. It would have been something we haven't seen him do yet, or has there been a part like that? The neat thing about the Ned Allyn role is that he comes off very well, putting the play finally ahead of his own ego and we like him for that. When I said that Colin was too old for the part of Will Shakespeare, that didn't mean he is too old in anyway to do romantic leads. Playing against a Julia Roberts, his age (32) wouldn't have been a problem, but against a Gwyneth Paltrow, definitely. Much as Colin still has his boyish good looks (that we last saw in FP), they would have looked at the whole picture (Gwyneth and her leading man together) and frankly Joe F as made up to be WS looks right.

I am sorry Colin didn't get to play Will in 92...the right age.Although JF looks like Shakespeare.He is slighter in build than Colin. But I'm glad they gave the script re-write to Tom Stoppard. IMO the script makes this film... and the direction.

Today's Chicago Tribune has printed a guide to SiL. All those burning questions of who's who? Then there's a picture of Colin with Judi Dench (one of his bowing and scraping ones) but he goes uncredited!! Caption reads: Elizabeth I (Judi Dench) went to the theater in "Shakespeare in Love." In truth, the theater came to her. Questions asked and answered: 1) What's with that young, preteen ragamuffin John Webster, who shows a fondness for pet rodents and gory stage business in the movie? 2) Who is Christopher Marlowe and, as the movie suggests, might he possibly have helped Shakespeare to write his plays? 3) Was there really a woman named Viola De Lesseps and might Shakespeare have ahd an affair with her? 4) Was there really a Rosaline, the promiscuous wench sleeping with Shakespeare, Burbage and a government official in the movie? 5) Was there really an actor named Ned Alleyn, the boisterous, declamatory character played by Ben Affleck? 6) Is it likely Queen Elizabeth I went to a public Elizabethan theater as she does in the play and met William Shakespeare? 7) Was there really an Elizabethan theater called the Rose? 8) Was there a rival company run by an actor named Richard Burbage?

(Evelyn) IMO the script makes this film... and the direction. Interesting thing, Evelyn, is that this article only talks about Stoppard doing this and Stoppard doing that. Does make one wonder what else Marc Norman might have contributed beside the pirate angle?

Karen...would I be asking too much if I asked you to give us the answers to the Chicago Tribune questions, please. I know some, but not all...Rosaline?Ned Alleyn?.. did E.I go to a public theatre? Great PR even if poor Colin goes uncredited in the photos. BTW, I have wondered why Rupert Everett went uncredited in SIL. Personal choice? Anybody know?