According to Twitter the riots have hit Ealing.

Cameron has started a major review of benefits, which will target those on long-term sick, forcing many back to work, and also caps all benefits at �26.000 per annum($42.000) Not many families receive this amount, I believe.

BBC confirmed Ealing now being hit. Car on fire, restaurant hit and Tesco's raided. How long before it moves to Hammersmith and Chiswick

I agree Janet for many this is seen as a bit of excitement! Just heard on the news that the looting has spread to Woolwich which has always been a place that you could label as 'financially disadvantaged' even when I was a small child but then there wasn't the senseless looting that is going on now. A reporter said that the young people seemed 'fearless' when entering shops and running away with clothing electrical goods etc. This once again makes the young people of this country look bad which is so sad for teenagers like my two sons one of whom has worked hard in a supermarket all day to earn his money and PAY for the clothes he wears...this really makes me mad:(

Is your son back safe, Jenny? It's a few bad apples (they are like vermin) whom spoil it for the rest.

Apparently Ealing Shopping Centre now on fire.

If this was to continue for any length of time, I wonder if Colin may consider a move away from London?

Yes thanks Sue he is home. Hearing all sorts of rumours about my local high street and Bromley my nearest shopping centre which is less than 5 miles away. Looting everywhere it seems. Not sure what I'm going to wake up to tomorrow. Something serious needs to be done and I'm not sure it can wait for this meeting at 9am with the PM tomorrow. What a sad vision of the UK being transmitted around the world...

Chalk Farm is getting it now. Is any area safe? If I were Colin and the riots continued I would re-consider my living arrangements.

Relieved to hear your son is home, Jenny. (Jenny)Something serious needs to be done and I'm not sure it can wait for this meeting at 9am with the PM tomorrow I agree. Why wait, they need something extra on the streets now, not tomorrow. Surely they could pull in the territorials or something. The fall out from this will be horrendous and where does it end.

Bloody H*ll, this is a post from 'W4' forum. Sounds terrible in Ealing. Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Rioting and looting.. Posted by: Julain Pavey Date/Time: 08/08/11 23:58:00 Ealing...One street,all cars have been smashed to bits. And youths trying to storm homes. This is serious stuff now. One lady says she has called the Police after people have stormed her house. But no Police have turned up. What the hell is going on

This sounds a lot more serious and widespread than riots of previous years. Keep you and yours safe everyone:-(

Yep. According to Twitter, riots now heading to Acton. Not good.

From the Mirror. A woman jumps from a window to escape fire, just yards up the road from the furniture store fire in Croydon. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/08/08/london-riots-terrified-woman-jumps-from-burning-building-115875-23330390/

I read a tweet earlier today there was rioting in Islington, but wasn't in a position to confirm it. Seems more than just simple bandwagon behaviour at this point.

Many areas affected. Here is the map of places hit so far in London. Now Liverpool is being affected. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7&msa=0&ll=51.558503,-0.055275&spn=0.114195,0.298691

The use of mobile phones being suggested as a reason for the widespread rioting, with youths encouraging others to participate via BBM, etc.

Why the hell aren't parents getting their kids home, and away from the riots?! They must know what they're up to:-((

Yep, blackberrys and the social networks. I am a little surprised the powers that be haven't brought down the internet and mobile phones, such as they did during the 7/7 attacks. This almost feels like terrorist territory now.

I really must go to bed, but I doubt I would sleep. This thing will probably go on til 5am or later.

Dianne Abbott (MP)has just appeared on TV pleading for parents to get their children home. I'm sure the biggest majority involved will be surprisingly young. The parents have to take some responsibility for their children's actions,

(Sue) This almost feels like terrorist territory now. While I understand your concern, this type of rhetoric doesn't help anything, especially as there's no evidence of such. If you consider any violence to be terrorism, then I guess that's what you may mean. That word is really thrown around a lot these days, not always with reason. Social media or no, if people didn't feel strongly about it (or something), I find it hard to believe people would choose to participate. It is rather unreal though for a non-third world, unoppressed country.

Agree, Janet. But it seems more organised that kids going on a jolly. Apparently youths get out of posh cars which pull into various areas and load up the cars with loot.

I'll delete the last with the wrong quote when I find the email that tells me how to do so. ;-) What I meant was.. (Me) I find it hard to believe people would choose to participate. Or so many, quite so violently and widespread.

(Dorine)I find it hard to believe people would choose to participate. Doesn't surprise me, sadly. These are mainly unemployed young people, poorly educated with no future to talk of. This is an exciting episode in their pretty worthless lives.

Doesn't surprise me either. I wonder whether Colin still endorses Protests (which invariably lead to riots)

There is nothing wrong with peaceful protests-they don't always lead to riots. It depends very much on the reason for the protests, and the area in which they take place. David Cameron should hang his head in shame. He has been woefully inadequate as the leader of our country, not only in this instance. Perhaps it's time for another General Election.

(Janet) These are mainly unemployed young people, poorly educated with no future to talk of. Exactly my point (in the preface to what I highlighted) and what I was alluding to about them feeling strongly (or angry) about something enough to do something like this.

(Janet) Perhaps it's time for another General Election. One can basically be called anytime, right? You don't have to wait for a specific time like we do, correct? Protests (which invariably lead to riots) Um, no, they don't.

This reminds me that I finally watched the DVD of that staged reading about protesting (and rioting) that Colin and others did a while ago. It was so long ago that I actually would need to watch it again to make any pointed comments about it, but I didn't find it particularly offensive or inciting or anything else negative really. Again, I can't give detailed commentary until I watch it again, but I didn't have a problem with it or the subject.

Many of these youths are unemployed because they don't want to work, and they rarely attended school, hence they have no qualifications. They belong to an underclass where their entire family lives on benefits. I worked in a deprived area of Glasgow with exactly these problems. What is the solution? - I don't really know. A large Sainsburys Depot (distribution centre) is now ablaze. I'm sure there'll be deaths before the night is over:-(

OMG! it looks bad 750 people work there, they just said on the Beeb. Apparently Bristol is now affected too. Fires in Liverpool.

....if people didn't feel strongly about it (or something), I find it hard to believe people would choose to participate But not participate in vandalism. Small shop owners who are only trying to eke out a living don't deserve to be looted and be robbed of their livlihood to satisfy some envious thugs. Besides government can't make jobs.

A General Election can be called anytime, but the maximum length of a government is 5 years. Interestingly, the Conservatives want to bring in a fixed term of 5 years. Don't know when/if it will become law. Currently, a vote of no confidence can be held, which, if upheld, would force a GE.

Just had a horrible thought. During this time when police resources are stretched to the limit(and there are plans to cut police numbers in the capital by 2000), this would be a time when terrorists could strike. Very depressing:-(

(Me) ....if people didn't feel strongly about it (or something), I find it hard to believe people would choose to participate (Evelyn) But not participate in vandalism. Why? Not the first time in history. Won't be the last. Hell, people commit vandalism when their favorite sports team wins or loses (usually wins, which I am lost to understand). Same kind of stuff. I just ran across this article and was basically what I was getting at (in questioning the motivation of these peoople). Is there some underlying current of anger, partially because of the austerity measures, that frankly has been ignored by the higher classes (and that can mean middle class, too)? I'm not saying they're justified by any means, but this seems to be getting too widespread to be just all bandwagon behavior. Some of them are just jumping on a bandwagon, sure, there always is, but this is A LOT. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots

I understand your point Dorine. There have been a number of riots in Greece following the extreme austerity measures and tax rises brought in to solve the country's financial meltdown. However, I do believe that the vast majority in London, etc are just enjoying the ride:-(

There is never an excuse for vandalism, IMO. Which is why the Tahrir Sq protests were taken so seriously by the world. Vandalism just tunes off any sympathy the populace have for a protest/cause. According to what I read this started out as a peaceful protest in front of a police headquarters and then some others came along and started the car burning and looting.

(Janet)Many of these youths are unemployed because they don't want to work, and they rarely attended school, hence they have no qualifications. They belong to an underclass where their entire family lives on benefits. I worked in a deprived area of Glasgow with exactly these problems. What is the solution? - I don't really know. Janet, we have the same over here amd my DD teaches in an extermely low income school. Unfortunately, many parents have no idea how to parent and they are too concerned with their next meal, next fix, or boyfriend to teach their children ethical behavior. The ones who try to do it right are fighting an uphill battle against the unsavory elements in their community. I don't have an answer either, but hope someone can find a solution.

I didn't say there was an excuse for it. I just said that people participate in it if they feel strongly about something. While watching that DVD I referenced before, I wouldn't say I was against it historically, consistently. Vandalism just tunes off any sympathy the populace have for a protest/cause. Some/many times, indeed. I can only imagine (or hope!) that the government/police, etc are freaking out thinking about next year's Olympics and how bad this must look that they can't control this. Way to make the world feel safe in your backyard.

I thought about next Summer's Olympics, too. I have not yet heard any news of calling in the military. Is there a similar entity to the U.S. National Guard? I read several reports of overwhelmed police not getting to calls, etc.

I've been wondering exactly the same thing about the military/Nat'l Guard.

(Dorine)I just said that people participate in it if they feel strongly about something. I think the complete opposite is the case. They don't feel particularly strongly about anything, but are simply following the mob mentality. The many decent people in these areas despair of the destruction of the communities.

These thugs on the streets are not rioting for a cause, they are rioting because they can get away with it. Heartening to see communities are working together to clear up.

The government have drafted in police from 26 other British forces, to cope with potential trouble tonight. The same government who plan to reduce police staffing levels throughout the country. The party of law and order my ar*e!!

Well said, Janet. Police have been drafted in from S. Wales, hope we don't get trouble tonight. Embarrassing isn't it that the police rep. who has to face press [huh] scrutiny over this, is actually temporary and third choice, post hacking scandals. Feel sorry for him.

Agree, Janet. Exactly, Lesley. Cameron didn't address the other areas of the UK whom were affected last night. He brings in police from 26 other British Forces, doesn't take Einstein to work out the scum will simply move to the under policed areas.

I have not yet heard any news of calling in the military. I think in the Uk the Nat'l Guard is called the Territorial; isn't it? DC said he didn't want to call them; instead he's putting 16,000 extra police on the streets and possibility of using plastic bullets. (Per Yahoo ) On BBCA last night they mentioned that the marginal tax rate in the UK is 60% and sales tax is 20%. They didn't say how many do not pay any taxes. I can tell you there would be riots in this country too if we ever came to those numbers.

The Territorials are part-time army volunteers, week-end soldiers, if you like.

I believe most of those involved are mindless idiots, who wouldn't know anything about the British economy. They're enjoying themselves. Some have been interviewed, and seemed to think it was an excuse to steal drink, get pissed, and cause mayhem. Others have been filmed giggling, generally larking about and talking on their mobile phones to their 'friends':-(

Just seen reports of Kingston being targeted. Hope you are OK, Peggy M?

(Sue)He brings in police from 26 other British Forces, doesn't take Einstein to work out the scum will simply move to the under policed areas. Do your police not use tear gas or water cannons? Since the police were vastly overwhelmed by the numbers of thugs. Bravo to the people initiating clean-ups. I know everyone feels terribly for the people whose livelihoods have been ruined. It's always the majority of law-abiding people who suffer. Like I said orginally, opportunistic thugs.

This could be good news, sorry, I know I shouldn't joke about Ealing Studios being targeted and it would be a real shame to lose it for the memory of the good films which were made there, Lavender Hill mob, you name it ............... Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Chiswick High Road Posted by: Maggie Dodge Date/Time: 09/08/11 16:00:00 Apparently there has been trouble at Ealing Studios, not sure why they would choose there, but someone who works there has been contacted and advised not to go in because of it.

(Mari)Do your police not use tear gas or water cannons? Since the police were vastly overwhelmed by the numbers of thugs. Not as a matter of course, but one would think the Police need to start thinking along those lines. From what I heard they are not even armed with rubber truncheons. Bit weird because they do have truncheons,if they are not made of rubber then what, are they made of padding so as not to harm the scumbags? Ridiculous.

(Lesley) The Territorials are part-time army volunteers, week-end soldiers, if you like. That is what our National Guard is as well. Finally have read all the posts in this topic. Phew! I hope all of my Drool ladies and their families/dear ones can remain unharmed. As with any riot, there is underlying cause and opportunism running in tandem. When an incident ignites a peaceful protest (often, I'm afraid, police overreaction), then it is quite easy for mayhem to take over and spread nonsensically. Was just checking a certain person's twitter and don't see anything. Strange... Thought all forms of protest was the answer. :-(

(Karen)Was just checking a certain person's twitter and don't see anything. Strange... Thought all forms of protest was the answer. :-( Yeah, I checked too. I guess now wouldn't be a good time to air Firth's 'The People Speak'

There are rumblings Chiswick may get targeted tonight. The Firth's should be careful what they wish for re protests. My blood still boils when I think of TPS. To say I wasn't impressed would be an understatement.

So messed up! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

I just saw there' s a curfew or something because of some kind of rioting in Philadelphia. It seems it has speed here. Apparently a giant warehouse full of dvd's from one of Britain's largest distributors plus several smaller distributors lost pretty much everything at a huge loss. But apparently the masters of the films are safe. It's in an article in The Guardian, but can't get a URL on my phone to post it.

Good news, Ealing Studios is OK. There was a minor break in in one of the annexe buildings, but otherwise all is fine.

That would be it has spread here. Damn u, autocorrect.

I saw that Phildelphia news last night. It was described as roving flash mobs.

Hope u don't blow through 140 posts in 4 or 5 hrs. Won't be home before then to start another topic.

But why? Solidarity(however misguided)?

(Dorine)That would be it has spread here. No, one has nothing to do with the other. That happened one night last week, when a roving mob of about 10 (might have been less) started knocking down people in Center City and beat up a couple. Mayor Nutter acted quickly. Prompt increased police presence in the affected area, strict curfew of 9 p.m. for minors (one hoodlum was 11 years old!), late night hours extended for recreation centers. Then he took to the pulpits on Sunday (literally) and told people to get their kids under control or the police would. I love when he told absentee fathers that they were nothing more than sperm donors. I believe they've caught most of the perps.

Just had a phone call cancelling my bridge game this evening - the police have advised Wimbledon Bridge Club to close as they are expecting riots in Wimbledon. It's getting very close to home - I live only two miles from Wimbledon. It's time they used hoses - I think it's a government decision , not a police one.

(Sue)Good news, Ealing Studios is OK. There was a minor break in in one of the annexe buildings, but otherwise all is fin (Dorine)That would be it has spread here. Damn u, autocorrect. ??

Well that had that emergency meeting this morning. Did they twiddle their thumbs? A film/tv writer/critic I follow on twitter and who lives in chiswick said as of 4:30, dumped of probe there were false (and posted pics of Chiswick High Road).

I had a typo, Sue, in my post about Philly.

LOL, I see. You mean Ian Wylie from Chiswick, Dorine? Yeah, nice pix of the High Road.

Then he took to the pulpits on Sunday (literally) and told people to get their kids under control or the police would. I love when he told absentee fathers that they were nothing more than sperm donors. I believe they've caught most of the perps. (Mari) Good for him. It all starts with appalling parenting: absentee fathers from day one, women having several children by different fathers, and living by choice on social security. Broken, violent homes. By our liberality, and our benefits culture, we have created an underclass, who grow up without any moral code or good examples.

I say again this has nothing to do with protests:-( These are mindless individuals causing mayhem because they want, and are able to.

Whilst I agree with some of your sentiments, Bethan, I don't see broken homes as the sole catalyst. There are some single Mum's of several children whom bring up exemplary behaved children. I feel it's to do with this expectation of 'entitlement'. These kids speak of wanting respect. They don't seem to understand that one has to 'earn' respect, it's not a given.

I agree many single mums do bring up their children brilliantly, but the ones who have multiple partners/children and expect the state to support them are at the root of the problem. These children have poor self esteem, and feel the world owes them something. There have no family values, and no continuity of care-they're bound to fail and end up on drugs and/or in jail. I've seen it all too often, and my colleagues and I could pick out the primary age (elementary school) kids who would end up in trouble.

I have spent the day dealing with rioters from Enfield and Tottenham. The vast majority had previous convictions for a number of different sorts of crimes. Only a few were of good character. They were also mostly over 18 years old - not children. A sizeable proportion were there from other parts of London which seems to show that the Blackberry connection resulted in these people following the mob to where the action was. Quite a few had jobs. Not great jobs but were in work of some sort. The general picture was of the looting and riots being the result of criminality - certainly not of protest. I do not know if this day was typical of other areas but it was interesting. These were mostly those who were found on premises. The major culprits, particularly the arsonists have yet to be found.

Allison, are you doing this as a social worker volunteer? a giant warehouse full of dvd's from one of Britain's largest distributors plus several smaller distributors lost pretty much everything at a huge loss I read that was the Sony warehouse. One wonders if they will rebuild in that spot. The temptation would be to grab the insurance money and build overseas.

of course, this is the DM, but there is a picture. "This is the shocking moment a young man is apparently forced to hand over all of his clothes after appearing to be stripped naked during lawless riots overnight. Internet rumours last night claimed that on top of the widespread destruction across London and Birmingham, people were having their clothes removed by looters as police attempted to contain the criminality" Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024001/UK-riots-2011-London-Birmingham-people-forced-strip-naked-street.html#ixzz1UZ3qr6Co

Can follow the cleanup efforts: http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23riotwombles

On a lighter note: markdarcylegal Mark Darcy BL Dear home sec -definitely saw hugh in riot footage of the arndale centre...please arrest him immediately but certainly before BJones 3.

Surely this will not help at all. Matter of fact, will give potential justification to some as far as their concerned I'd bet. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/09/mark-duggan-police-ipcc (Me) a giant warehouse full of dvd's from one of Britain's largest distributors plus several smaller distributors lost pretty much everything at a huge loss (Evelyn)I read that was the Sony warehouse. Yes, this is the story I read and couldn't link earlier. http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/aug/09/british-film-distributors-warehouse-fire?INTCMP=SRCH (Sue) You mean Ian Wylie from Chiswick, Dorine? Yep. (Allison) Quite a few had jobs. Not great jobs but were in work of some sort. Guess they took a sick day. ;-) What was the age range you saw, Allison?

Christ, I need to go back to school to study grammar.

Back from a few days away and just had to check in here. I'm thinking of my friends in the UK. I hope you all stay safe. It's a shame how a few bad apples can influence so many. What is wrong with youth today? And what does the PM think debating the riots it in Parliament will do?

I created a new topic early since there seems to be a lot of discussion on Mad World for now and I didn't want it to run out when I wasn't going to be around. So keep an eye on posting on the correct one for now (PART 2, not Part 3). Thanks and enjoy!

This... A member of Britain's parliament has called for RIM to suspend BlackBerry Messenger within the UK while the riots continue. While RIM is cooperating with law officials, it's not clear if they will actually bend to this request. Because of this... http://www.zdnet.com.au/hacking-becomes-latest-weapon-in-uk-riots-339320136.htm

LOL! http://www.thespoof.co.uk/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s1i99064 Reports are coming in from Chiswick that a band of rowdy yoga mums have looted the artisan bakery and made off with all the walnut and sun blushed tomato bread. The angry mob, wearing pink pashminas to cover their faces, were seen to perform several sun salutations on the pavement before moving along to Fired Earth where they ransacked the National Trust paint samples and stuffed Limited Edition Provencal Tiles into straw baskets. Fears of more disturbances this evening have prompted Chiswickian Rupert Agincourt, a Merchant Banker and neighbour of actor Colin Firth, to "get a few chaps together" in order to defend Turnham Green against further marauding attacks. The Defenders Of Turnham Green vigilante meeting will take place at sundown on the terrace of Carluccio's in Chiswick High Road (excellent lemon drizzle cake BTW). Rupert Agincourt will be urging the men of Chiswick to defend the normally civilised and sedate neighbourhood against "these rampaging mindless thugs." "These women are out of control" said Mr Agincourt" they are armed with rolled up copies of Horse And Hound, pumped up on Gin and Tonic and spend the afternoons cruising Chiswick High Road in their Volvo XC90s." Fellow Bedford Park resident Sir Dickie Hedge-Trimmer, who was at Latymer Upper with Hugh Grant, has also put his considerable weight behind Rupert Agincourt's campaign: "The women of Chiswick claim they are bored and demand all the latest gadgets but that is no excuse for rioting in the streets and looting shops" said an angry Sir Dickie.

The solution? A school in deprived inner city Hackney with an exceptional record of success. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/8341428/Mossbourne-Academy-A-tale-of-high-expectations.-.-.-and-no-excuses.html Certainly the �no excuses� culture and discipline is at the heart of its success. A thick, indelible, non-negotiable line is drawn. Each lesson begins with students pledging to �retain an inquiring mind�. There are same-day detentions. There are also compulsory after-school and weekend clubs for under-achievers. There is an insistence on good manners and meticulous uniform. There is setting in all key subjects. At the top end, Mossbourne�s first generation of sixth-formers is excelling. Ten have offers from Cambridge, including two places to read medicine. These are not �token� but real offers around the �two As, two A-stars� bracket. There are a further 55 offers from the Russell Group universities. Nothing socially engineered about this: on the contrary, gifted young people from unprivileged backgrounds are doing it properly. Hard graft. High aspirations. Proper teaching. The work ethic verges on evangelical. Sixth-formers are scrupulously polite but are anxious to return to their books. They are also quietly dismissive of quotas of lower grade offers for poorer students. Among them is Rosie Gilbert, who has an offer of one A-star and two As to read geography at Newnham College, Cambridge.

(Allison) The general picture was of the looting and riots being the result of criminality Thank you Allison for your report. It is a bit of comfort to hear that most of the perps are not young teenagers on the loose. But what to do with the criminals and prevent further mindless rioting and looting... The Spoof story is funny.The angry mob, wearing pink pashminas to cover their faces ... or repurposed burkas:-) Good for Mossbourne Academy! It is another example of educators having to teach manners and ethics which in the past have been learned from one's parents.

This is very heartening and the other side of the coin of social media. Through SM people have come together to help clear up the mess from the riots. I watched a lovely news item on BBC breakfast this morning. Here is the text http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14462058

Plenty of decent people out there, thank goodness!

Dreadful news about the three young men mown down by rioters.

Yes, it's awful and the elderly gentleman in Ealing whom was badly attacked and who's life is hanging in the balance. He suffered head injuries.

It is dreadful news from Birmingham but I have yet to read anything that really explains who killed them. Max Hastings..maybe raving righty..writes in the Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html Discuss. Meanwhile in my small select village with no discernable underclass, my house was burgled yesterday afternoon by presumably disaffected youth intent on depriving my daughtr, who they may well be at school with next year, of her ipod. Still..lucky they didn't leave the door open and let the dog run out and kill herself. So my point...lots of horrible things out there and lots of theories but I tend to agree with Max Hastings on just the one point...too much liberal dogma.

Sorry about your break-in Felicity:-( Well, I'm no raving righty, but I have to say I agree with just about everything he says! There is a sizeable underclass in every British city. I am delighted that, since retiring, I don't have to deal with these types on a day to day basis.

Re the three deaths in Birmingham. A car has been impounded and one man arrested. It seems they were trying to protect their property and were run over deliberately. The police are treating the deaths as murder.

I say lock 'em all up and throw away the key. They'll get lots of state benefits for a long,long time. Glad I don't own RIM stock. It's been going down the toilet anyway. Iphone and Android has been eating their lunch.

Sorry also to hear of your break in, Felicity. I know from my Parent's-in-law's experience, it's horrible to feel someone has broke in and invaded your home. My PIL were lucky not to be hurt because the robbers were still inside the house when PIL returned. Father in law saw them escape over a fence and run past him as they escaped. PIL lost a lot of sentimental jewelery which can never be replaced. On the subject of the riots. Colin's ex friend, Nick Clegg has said he backs the idea of evicting from social housing those prosecuted from the riots. He said why should the Government support those living in social housing when their actions, in the case of arson, have meant others have lost their homes and businesses. I concur with Mr Clegg on this one.

Sounds great idea in theory, but where will they live-on the streets? Crazy thing is that very few of those convicted will end up in jail, since they're so overcrowded already. They know they'll just get a slap on the wrist:-(

I share your questions, Janet. I feel it could be a better idea to tag them for several years, make them do community service, again for several years, not months, and reduce their benefits (for those on social).