Spring re-design

first, I guess, we would have to decide if we didn't like the current design enough for us to change it, and second, I guess to a point it doesn't matter as I can change my topics to look however I want... So, does everyone want a re-design?

this is a hypothetical. but, from comments i've had from people "in the know" i.e. in the web trade (http://www.ntd.co.uk), i think it could do with a bit of work. the interface can be a little clumsy at times, i find. also, it can be difficult to navigate through the topics that i read in particular conferences, without manually going through my conference list page every time. a catchup function would be nice, so that i can just catchup all the old responses in a topic at will.

It's fine with me, I just have limited time so if folks want more system wide design power, it can be arranged. Myretta and Nan have system wide design change power and there are directions for making system wide changes at http://www.armidalesoftware.com

I do, to, especially if I ask permission first...*wink*

apparently I have typo power, as well...

power is good... i personally like power-steering and powerpushing lawnmowers

power is good . . . I personally like power and . . . . power . . ., and then there's power of course.

oh, of course...

See? I knew you'd understand!

hheeee cool thing. i've created my own startup page for the spring, which lives here locally on my machine. it's got the main spring page in one frame, and my conference hotlist in a small top frame. that way, i can go to any conference i like without having to go through the main page every time. it works quite well, although it has the disadvantages associated with all frame sites (no bookmarking, url not filled in etc.). but, i'm trying it out. if anyone else would like to try it out, then please let me know.

If you like, you can email me the html and I can post it in a publicly accessible area that you can reference. Or you could put it in http://www.spring.net/~mikeg/startpage or something like that.

well. it has to be set up for each individual person at the moment; you need to cut and paste your own conf. list, until can find a way to access the one the spring produces. is that a cgi script that i can just call, or haven't you any idea?

Pose this question to kaylene@armidalesoftware.com

if I wasn't at home, I'd go look...and I will find it on here by tomorrow, Sunday at the latest...oops, I have it...printed out the template for Main Menu the other day, so the code is <pre>%'check'</pre> that's what makes your conf list...

done. awaiting response.

slippage

oh yeah, what does the <pre> tag do?

it's for preformatted...like ascii art or the concrete poetry topic... it's how they get all the rows to line up all nice and neat...tomorrow I'll look and see if 'check' is a template also, and will report back in again...I think it probably is the more I think about it, and if so, it'll have the info you're looking for...

where are these templates stored?

Holy $hit!

Wholly $hit? ha-ha!

how about a little text input box on the main conference page, so that one can jump instantly to any conference?

I like that idea.

that sounds cool...

shouldn't be that hard to do, it's just a case of getting hold of the code which produces the main conference page, something which is beyond my knowledge. any ideas, wer?

by the way, who likes the standard backgroud, "chalk.jpg" ?

pick me, pick me......(i hate it, really)

:)

PPPLLLEEEUUUUGGGGHHH!!! YUKSIES! �sticking tongue out�

just one more "no", and i'll feel confident of being multilateral enough to suggest that we change it.

How about just plain white?

well, i tried it in Babes, and to be honest, it doesn't look as good as i expected it to. it looks lovely in Engaged apps, but for some reason not here. i don't think the <hr> tag goes particularly well with plain white. how about something plain, but with a distant "spring.net" in it? that's what i've tried out here, and the first results are OK. dunno if that's the best solution, though. try the white. see what it looks like. i'll try it here, too.

two things. firstly, the white looks nasty, imho. how about a light blue? i've dialed up #22ccdd here, and it looks quite nice - restrained, and compliments the darker blue links to confs etc. secondly, can anyone supply me with a decent fixedwidth font? the standard one i have is courier, and it's bloody horrible. i'm now using typewriter something or other, which is better, but a bit spaceage and weird looking.

i've found the code which produces the main page. or rather, the template. however, it's a bit CGI-ey and scarey, so adding the "shortcut" box may be a little difficult. or at least tricky.

i think it's time i learnt perl...

the place up in Michigan uses the dialog box for conferences, went and got their code today, just haven't had time to do any experiments with it yet...let me find the cool font site, and get the url to you Mike so you can picka one for yourself... the light blue is fine by me...

You guys are beginning to frighten me! Sounds like you speak some secret language all the time.

hehe :))

wer, wouldja post that cool font site? puhleeeeeeze!

this is a link page to tons o' font sites... http://members.tripod.com/~service97/sf-font.html happy hunting!

Just thought I'd put in a couple of comments about colors and fonts on the web. Both of these are browser dependent so there are some real limititations to what you can do with them. The only fonts that will appear on a web page are the ones that are supported by your browser when you look at the options selection for fonts. And what is supported by your browser may not be supported by the rest of the people looking at the page. If you want to be sure everyone is seeing the same thing, it is best to l ok for something that is universal (Times New Roman - boring but everyone has it - for example). The way to get around this is to put the font you want to use into a graphic (a .gif or .jpg) and then put the graphic on your page. Colors, too, vary from browser to browser. The colors which are consistent across all platforms can be found on the web. One such site is: http://www2.jens.com/~selkirk/courses/toolbox/style/colors2.html Hope you don't mind my butting in, but I thought a couple of tips might be helpful if you are just starting off.

no butting done here, thanks for the info!

the comment was made about non-proportional fonts, to be used locally, to replace my rather boring Courier used for the <PRE> info

well, seems no matter what i do to the font front command, it stays the same (at my website)

let me know if I can help. the way to change the non-prop font globally is to use the Options in your browser (e.g. Netscape. Options menu/General Preferences/Fonts). i can't remember how to change the non-prop font with an HTML tag, although I do remember it's possible. might be worth looking that one up (time I got myself a list of all the HTML tags and options, I think)

well, while i've got you here *heehee* can you tell me what the code is to change background color? i've tried the standard html code but it doesn't work here. am i supposed to go into the rc file or what?

as a conference host? if you're a conference host, you need to edit the rc file - i think the additions needed are in "Creating a host help-pack", so look in there. if you mean in general, then you can't - it's fixed in the software until we can convince terry to change it for us :)

hmmm...a thought. some people seem to have worked out the rather intricate URLs needed to link to another conference/topic/posting, while others haven't. how about something in the HTML interpreter commandy thing which allows easy linking to another conf/topic/posting? something like : Well, if you look in [topic::23] you'll find the info, with [topic::23] being turned into an HTML link to that topic? that one's probably better passed onto the YAPP people themselves, i guess.

yeah, as a conference host. ok, i'll have to go look in there!

We need a conference manager! Anyone want to nominate someone or volunteer. Does require some basic knowledge of Yapp and UNIX.

ummm me? :-)))

Okay, okay, no need to go through the embarassing asking business. Sure I'll DO it, Terry.

sign me up, also, I guess...

We can have more than one. There will be a discussion of how this works in email, at least, the technical details.

before i answer, what is a conference manager?

Hey, hey, I wasn't serious!!!! I know bugger-all about Yapp and that sort of crap. Mike and Wer and Wolf coud be conference managers - I'll just bust your screens.

Wouldn't mind being conference manager though if I could be the one to tell people to stop swearing . . .

*lol*

That's MY job... *grin*

I thought your job was... *hopeful grin*

Actually that's her game . . .

Got it! anyway, got your blue suggestion working in news, Mike, so very body go by and see what you think...of course, come back here and share those thoughts, por favor...

nice one :) i'll drop by.

well, yeah, it's ok. what does everyone else think?

purty...

any chance of us getting the code over for both the frames and the "goto conference" shortcut box, wer? anyone else?

not sure...gotta ask Terry as I don't have write permission...

Email jeff@spring.net. He's our system admin type guy. He was just here earlier this evening. He can fix you up. By the way, Jeff is building a Kick Butt new spring machine. Pentium, 64mb ram, 8 gb hard drive, etc. We're gonna test it for a spell before we put it on line. But it could be our new conferencing, website box.

Jeff must be a very, very clever man.

I have no response to that...

a dollar says you do...

Let the man be modest if he wants to be modest, Wer. Suppose your argument would now be that it is hard to be honest AND modest at the same time . . . !

Jeff says the machine is up now and lookin' good so far. We're gonna test it for a spell before we put anything critical on it.

sounds brill :)) I built my own p166 system here, so I know what "fun" that can be =)

First reports are that it's a stable machine, even running in a room w/o a/c.

Oh, no! w/o a/c ???? Could you translate that into English please?

without air conditioning. Something people around here can't seem to live without. Except maybe Jeff and his machines.

oh Will you grant me permission to ask one stupid question, please.

Permission granted, mademoiselle.

Is the spring like an organization? Or a co�peration kind of thing with lots of people working there, where you are the big boss? And if so, does that make YOU the person who tells us to go away if we swear too much? Stacey said there was someone like that. Are you that person?

We're a loosely knit co-op and I pretty much supply everyting and keep it running, I'm not very dictatorial though.

how is it all paid for, may i ask...?

i've always wanted to ask terry that myself. i keep thinking that he'll go into a Brando/Godfather impersonation and say, "Listen, don't ask me about my bizness."

I pay for it all, but hopefully we'll figure out a better model than that! Suggestions??? Should we have a pledge drive? I could clearly explain what it costs to run this place and we could try and raise some funds that way. Or we could expand our web business with volunteer help form our users.

i think we should have a pledge drive. if the spring were to offer mikeg@thespring.com as an e-mail address, i'd cancel my WELL account and pay $15 a month here.

Or we could sell pizzas, candy bars and overpriced wrapping paper!

We already have hundreds of folks with email addresses here.

yeah...if you've got a telnet account you have an e-mail address here, Mike...

yeah, but mikeg@www.spring.net is not quite as cool as mikeg@well.com. know that spring.com has been sold, I guess the closest might be mikeg@thespring.com, which I'd pay $15 a month for :)

I've got an idea how we can have fun and raise a bit of money for the spring as the spring people. There's going to be that big spring party next year, right? What if we all came a day or so in advance, have a huge cake baking, popcorn popping get together the first day. Sell these at a huge stall with lots of music and colourful ribbons and baloons, and at a 100% profit the next day and have the party on the third day! You know, like in school, but alot bigger! Popcorn put me through four years of s udy at a conservatorium when I was in school, so it's the only practical idea I can come up with - sorry if it sounds childish. And the rest of the time, why don't you just ask us for donations, Terry? I'd be willing to, because the spring is important.

Mike, you can use either mikeg@thespring.com or mikeg@spring.net, they both work. For that matter, you're also mikeg@childrenstory.com and mikeg@tvpc.com, and mikeg@babeoftheweek.com. Got it any other cool names we can register. Hey, idea! Let's all brainstorm up some great names that we can either develope into websites or sell to make some money to keep the Spring going. I'll open a topic!

No, this is confusing! Remember, Autumn and me don't do the computer thing so well.

but, you do it over the computer just fine...

This part is pretty straight forward. It is when those secret CIA intelligence codes start popping up that our peas start popping around frantically.

oooh...I hate it when my peas pop frantically... so, Terry, if I wanted to "fix" the templates around here, I would just send the "corrected" ones to Jeff and he'd put them in? oh, and have you gotten any farther with the conference mangager thingy?

Call me tonight and I'll set you up and explain to you how it works.

Got it...when is too late?

It's too early now, in a coupla' hours when I get back from dinner. You see, Stacey made me hungry.

understand that! just got back from Hyde Park Bar & Grill...

Missed you last night, try again tonight.

at work tonight...will call when I get home, probably between 10:30 and 11...

Sounds good.

when I made ya hungry Paul... what were you craving?!?!

probably something different than I was...

I wasn't even thinking about food till I read your post, then zoom, off to the races.

perhaps our design should also contain food and sex to provide a clearer image of Spring inhabitants!

WOO WOO!!!

Hell, then I'll just do a spurting willy!!!

AFter all, willies count as food too, right?

Remember the spermy looking logo we had for a while, a cross between a noctural emission and an oil gusher?

such intriguing images... to get the text box conf link done, I've gotta rework the list template... haven't gone to armidale to get it yet, and not sure if I can figure it out myself, yet... am starting work on template re-design, so if there is something else that you all want, speak up...

No, a willy will do just fine, thank you.

There's a link to your spiffy new search page on main now, Terry...

HELLO HOW SOES THIS WORK IS ANY ONE HERE?

SOME ONE (((((((((( HELP!! )))))))))))

Are you still here? It's a bulletin boardish kinda thing. Post a message, as above, and come back at your earliest convenience and see if anyone has responded... Welcome! Hope you stay around here awhile...

IS SOME ONE HERE THIS IS SO WEIRD I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY CAHT PLACE LIKE THIS ? I thought this was live chat. THIS IS SOMETHING ELSE MAN!!!!!!

hi lady! nope this aint live chat. this is asynchronous, bulletin board style communication ala the WeLL. check out http://www.spring.net to learn more any maybe even http://www.well.com hope to see you around some more!!

yes, lady, and do stop shouting (caps on)! sometimes a group of us are on-line at the same time and that's cool! but it's fun to post something and then come back later and see what happened next!

It is something else, Lady. Not chat for sure. Something more intelligible and focused hopefully.

even with our ramblings he finds us intelligent! well, hey, we're edgy and cooool! i don't know who revamped this place but it looks good. very soothing to me...

thanks...

Mighty mighty good!!! Man!

if this kind of stuff comes out of your head, wer, then we have nothing at all to fear. does ya needs to blab?

actually, just changed the page to mirror Terry's index and search pages...trying for that continuity thang...

and as to blabbing, no but thanks, that's what I'm working on controlling at the moment...

gotcha! well, the breaks are different, aren't they? doesn't matter, i like it anyway!

so, do you all like the looks in here enough for me to make it the new default for the Spring as a whole? (at least for awhile, anyway...)

It's great, but don't ya touch my conference!!!! I'll turn you into another kind of default with alot of stripes, and a very silly logo on those broad shoulder o' yours! No I just find it sort of nice that all the conferences have identities of their own. Like, I can't imagine Genx without our lovable puppy! It just so suits that conference - I can't somehow get excited over the leaves (which look so great here!!) replacing our puppy!

how about making it the default for conferences that don't already have a nice background?

that's what I said...the default... will show in all the conferences where a lovable host hasn't messed with the rc file, and will show on Main Menu... speaking of, has anyone noticed the Personalized for line?

yes i did, was that you? what's the scholar thingy? or should i just click and go there?

Click and go, Baby!

Oh! I'm terribly sorry, Wer! I misunderstood! WHERE is the personalized for line? Damn, my head is thick as a mud ball at the moment - just can't think straight.

http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/main right under the words Main Menu...

Oh, I found it! You've got great moves, Wer!

We should change the name of this topic to 'Spring re-vamp'!

So, how "commercial" do you all mind this place looking? What doesn't anyone want me to do?

I so, go right over the top, Muffin!

No tacky plastic crap. Anything else is OK!

You mean and Edwardian feel would not delight the Moore heart?

I thought Othellian feels lit the Moor heart...

ha-ha!

Now there's a real man! He can light my fire anyday...

The place is looking nice :)

Thanks, Mike, still can't get some things to work, however... Terry, got you options for the last 50, 100, 333, and 500 posts in case you're not webbing in...

333? What an intriguing number...how did you arrive at that, mike?

um i didn't - wer did :)

oops, I meant wer.

um, Terry asked for the last 100 and last 500, so I figured someone sometime might want something inbetween, so why not 333? I mean, it is a lot cooler than say 250 or plain old 300...

Ah...curiosity satisfied! 333 is both edgy and cool, don'tcha think?

exactly!

You're sooooooo cool, Wer! Were you born that way, or moulded?

yes...

Working on a Link to Us page, with different banners and buttons for people to use to link back to the Spring with...if anyone has any banners for me to put up on said page, e-mail them to me at rotazo@aol.com, or ftp'em to your favorite server and e-mail me their urls...oh, and a for example

wer, i have a cheesy one i made for my website at http://www.ratthing.com

got it, Ray, see...

i like that one a lot!

me, too! Thanks, Amy!

rough draft of the link to us page is up at http://www.spring.net/~cfadm/links/ peruse, use, and send me submissions!!! and again, thanks Amy and Ray...

oh, yeah, be patient as it takes a little while to load...

rough draft of the link to us page is up at http://www.spring.net/~cfadm/links/ peruse, use, and send me submissions!!! and again, thanks Amy and Ray...

I like the one that says "... in a friendly atmosphere". Maybe one that says "What do you want to talk about today?"

gotcha, Boss!

i really liked the one on #158. but let me go back and check out the ones up at spring-links....

ok...i like 'em all....maybe we can just let the person choose a scheme to match their page or their liking? you guys did a good job!

that was my thought...still need to make the "Watcha wanna talk 'bout?" one...

yep, yep!

see!

If we don't make some changes, the status quo will remain the same.

hey...I want to put up the spring cam on main...do you all want a snapshot of what is playing, or do you want me to make the whole main menu refresh, and if so, how fast do you want it? (my guess would be somewhere between 45 and 60 seconds...)

still working on your banner, Terry...speaking of, do you have any cool graphics programs I can use and/or Frontpage98? (got a new, cool computer at home and can telnet and ftp and... and everything!!! well, almost...)

Yep, I'll be glad to help you get set up. Let me know when to come by. Or you can come by here and I'll get you what you need.

kil-ler

No problem. Give me a call!

I will...as to when, ?

Anytime, this weekends good.

about the main index page where you want the last responses to go: how does everyone feel about splash pages? it's the easiest way to do it (frames would be next easiest) as I have to write a template and script for the page to include the last response thang...I'm also gonna put the last response pages over in public for more universal access...

I achieved nothing, but in a very nice way....reminisced about depression and what it felt like...odd.

this place looks great! (hi mike)

and I thought odd was what I felt like... Hiya, Mike! Hiya, Wolf!

as to a splash page... what do you all think about http://www.spring.net/~spew/ndex.html

It's good. Now, if you could have those last 10 posts that folks could click on the main page. Can you create a test page for this?

I think so...

and for a second version of splash, see http://www.spring.net/~spew/ndex2.html (I like this one better...)

i love ndex.html wer....not so sure about ndex2.html

thank you, Mike got a third version running around in my head, as well...

wer, i like em both! harder to read the second one, but the water goes well with the theme!

I was thinking, I could write some Javascript that would allow us to "see" who was here via the web as well as via telnet. anyone fancy that?

no comments?

just now am seeing it...sure, if it don't crash stuff like, oh say, Navigator 2.0...

i don't know what that mumbo jumbo means so i can't comment. oh, wait...huh?

what version of javascript does netscape 2 have wer?

(*paranoid*) Are you guys making fun of me?! I'm so computer-illiterate I can't even tell!

2 is before Java, I think, Mike... Autumn, would I do that?

Methinks you would, with relish...

only briefly... *grin*

I was wrong, Mike, Navigator 2.0 was the first to support Javascript...don't know the version, though...

1.0, I would guess I sent you email asking for create access in /usr/bbs/www - did you get it?

and look who got to be 200!

yep...will send you the info later today (Tuesday)... (haven't gone to sleep yet so my body thinks it is Monday still...)

thanks for the write acces, wer. unfortunately i don't seem to be able to get the yapp interpreter thingy to do any pages correctly. for example, i have created a page "test" in /usr/bbs/www that is basically a copy of "userinfo", also in that directory. yet, they come out completely differently...i'm very confused :) any suggestions would be most helpful.

aha...got it working in a rudimentary way. just got to add some bells and whistles and it'll be up anmd running!

at the Armidalesoftware web site (http:/www.armidalesoftware.com) there are controls for "hide, edit, delete" on postings that you've made yourself. can we implement that here?

maybe...I have trouble making some things work on here, too... maybe I'll have more time to sort it all out when I'm unemployed...

anyway... Attention all hosts!!! I would like to add the goto search bar to the main(browse) page for each conference. Does anyone have a problem with that? (if so, I'll add it so that you can turn it off if you want to... however, since it only generates 2 cents a use, it would be nice to have it up and running in as many places as possible...)

as long as it opens a new browser window - we don't want ppl straying from the Spring!!

let's do it!

all of us stray, Mike...

... but we live to regret it! NEW BROWSER WINDOW N O W ! (Hi Wer!)

this topic is not playing nice today!!! (gotta go to work now...will try again later...)

"Go to Work" - ?

yep...I'm temping for a state agency...

Traffic The Spring From 04/12/1999 To 05/19/1999 Transaction Day Transaction Date Impressions Click Throughs Click to Impression % Sunday 04/18/1999 5 2 40.000% Monday 04/19/1999 65 3 4.615% Tuesday 04/20/1999 59 3 5.085% Wednesday 04/21/1999 59 0 .000% Thursday 04/22/1999 117 16 13.675% Friday 04/23/1999 65 10 15.385% Saturday 04/24/1999 42 5 11.905% Sunday 04/25/1999 56 1 1.786% Monday 04/26/1999 51 0 .000% Tuesday 04/27/1999 80 5 6.250% Wednesday 04/28/1999 75 0 .000% Thursday 04/29/1999 67 4 5.970% Friday 04/30/1999 45 3 6.667% Saturday 05/01/1999 50 2 4.000% Sunday 05/02/1999 48 2 4.167% Monday 05/03/1999 45 1 2.222% Tuesday 05/04/1999 38 0 .000% Wednesday 05/05/1999 38 0 .000% Thursday 05/06/1999 44 0 .000% Friday 05/07/1999 59 5 8.475% Saturday 05/08/1999 37 1 2.703% Sunday 05/09/1999 40 1 2.500% Monday 05/10/1999 57 4 7.018% Tuesday 05/11/1999 64 2 3.125% Wednesday 05/12/1999 61 0 .000% Thursday 05/13/1999 59 4 6.780% Friday 05/14/1999 55 1 1.818% Saturday 05/15/1999 36 1 2.778% Sunday 05/16/1999 41 0 .000% Monday 05/17/1999 55 1 1.818% Tuesday 05/18/1999 61 0 .000% Wednesday 05/19/1999 63 3 4.762% Grand Totals 1,737 80 4.606% .

my apologies to everyone...I will edit out the white space when I get home... I don't have ftp on my laptop at work, and forgot how to ftp through Internet Explorer and have never really learned how to ftp over telnet yet...

"A laptop at work" - my, Wer, that's looking good! You sure about the "temping"? Might that not rather be "tempting"? What are you doing there?

got a laptop and a docking station...even got a desk and half an office!!! updating, proofreading, and editing their Intranet pages...

speaking of work, thanks for lunch, Alexander, time for me to hit the keyboard again...

...a real IT job! Do they pay? Wer, this is what I thought a while ago - everybody should throw money together to keep you off the streets (=make them safer, you know). So, if the state helps to combine the Texas citizens tax money to make Austin a better place, what can I say? All Power to that place's human resources dept.! (How do you feel?)

wer with a laptop and not a wooden spoon.....hmmmm, well, do ya have any kitchen utensils hanging on the wall behind your desk? you know, so you can remember where you came from? *grin*

I'm making a little more a week than I was cooking with all my evenings and weekends free and about twenty hours a week less of work...I even wear nice clothes to work now... and no, Wolf, they all think I've done this kind of work for real before, so I haven't let them in on the "big secret"...

(How do you feel?)

(still haven't quite adjusted to the radical environmental changes, and until the checks start coming in, there's always the bein'broke stress, but my appetite is back and my smoking has been cut roughly in half...)

no doubt due to lack of fundage! hang in there guy, we're pulling for you *hugz*

Hey, Wer, cut all that smoking! A girl I know at a label, she quit smoking and a year later she had the cash for a three week holiday in California, meeting people, seeing bands, having fun, cruising Bay Area. Would that count as incentive? (Wolf, I'm with with you - but what am I pulling here? Somebody's leg?)

Woo Woo WER!!!!

Just had a bit of a thought whilst I was playing around in the web interface. If you run in 640*256 then the slide on the main page is pretty big. It would be easy to tailor the main page so that the image was scaled to fit screen resolutions - just a tiny bit of javascript does it. Also, we could implement an option whereby each user could choose whether they wanted the slide on their main page or not (I, for example, don't particularly). Again, easy to do with a web browser cookie. I'd be happy to o both of these things.

obviously that should be 640*480 :)

'tis worth a shot I 'spose...

what do you all think of http://access.spring.net/~wer/test/index.html as a new main page for http://www.spring.net/ ??? (not everything on it works as of this post 'cause it's still a demo...)

Good stuff! Maybe the conferences could run down the whole page and the Log in / join /help could be narrower. Opening several new domains: http://www.tvshows.com http://www.bioregion.com http://www.workontheweb.com and more! Needless, to say, I need all the design help I can get... Thanks much, wer!

tell me when and/or where, and let me know when to come over if I need some training!

wer, you're a genius! i love your design!!

thanks

Come over any time you have a chance, we've got a whole living room full of systems waiting for design talent. We can hot rod up a system to your specs.

Uh, Terry, you sure you want to do that? Rigging a kit to meet Wer's specs must be really challenging... He's such a DEMANDING and EXPECTANT person... Try to get a decent wig for the case to start with. And cool shades.

yep...those are a must!

check http://access.spring.net/~wer/test/index.html again, guys, as I got rid of the borders and stretched out the conferences list, as per Terry's request. is sometime around 6 tonight okay, Terry?

That's ok! You can even work out by the pool now.

i like it, wer, just one thing, about the scroll bars around the picture and the yellow line inbetween the spring cam and the info about spring cam....can those be removed? i love the scrolling sidebar with the topics alphabetized, much easier!

Terry, paint her toes, too... You guys have fun! And Wer, don't rub the sun lotion to strong into the mainboard, when you get worked up, ok? Like, don't pour it on, buddy!

because of monitor sizes, and using minimized windows, Wolf, I can't get rid of all the scrollbars without loosing some info that's up... just like the yellow line which is below the springcam for me, but beside it for you...I can make it a different color and I think I'll go with the green of the background on the cam info frame...should I go with the different fonts for the conference names?

oh, thanks for explaining wer *hugs* um, the green would work, methinks....and the conf names, hmmmm...maybe a size bigger...i dunno, it's obvious you worked hard on it and i hope you don't think i'm being critical *smooch*

no, go ahead and be critical...if it doesn't appeal to as many as possible, there's no need to change it, right? anyway, the green is done, and I've started playing with the fonts, so go check it again...

played some more...combined two frames for less scroll bars... check it out again at http://access.spring.net/~wer/test/index.html I may get it right yet!!!

so far so good! i like what i'm seeing, anyway...

It's good, wer, but the font in the lower left box (with Spring's address) needs to be much larger so folks will know where to send their checks! I see you like the black box. Oh well, can't win 'um all...

Looks good, much better without the big borders between frames. I like the way only the picture refreshes.

there's not a black box...two frames are really dark green, but I'm not sure what you're referring to as the black box...

The left-most one with the green plain typing in it. It is not the screen part waiting for the picture to come on - it is the slightly larger one to the far left. (It really does not bother me as I do not come in that way!)It is really quite fine.

I just went back to check and it looks Great. It is just perfect and I really like it now that the refreshing picture there. Good job, wer. Take a bow!

thanks

Who changed the background in Music?

I did...do you not like it?

My apologies...I should have asked since you be a host in there... what is my "punishment"?

Hmh. It looks nice, but I *liked* the old one with the musical notes... plus the blue of the writing and the greenish stripes hurts my eyes a bit. You also made the "clear"-button vanish from under the field to write in?

Punishment: How about my opinion on it? See above... (And believe me, this hurts me more than you!)

yeah...the stripes and the blue does that to mine, too... any suggestions for a different background or do you just want the eyes and notes back?

Hmh. Eyes are cool, notes are musical - perhaps a different hue for a change? I hate sinking other people's boats, so - any suggestion? What about the "clear"-button?

yeah, I took it away again, too...got some complaints that people were hitting it instead of submit... hmmm...colors...

OK, lemme guess - Moonbeam? I never had this problem, but found it very useful when I pasted some copied text in there, but wanted to take it out again for some reason (wrong topic, etc.). How about putting it ABOVE the window? No clumsy fingers can mistake it there... (What always happened to me was, I hit the redisplay button. Took me a month to get over this...)

Any way you can make those eyes and notes less intense - or the stripes more muted would be welcome to these eyes.

I can try re-positioning, yes...

No, Not Moonbeam...I was the one who requested its removal - but I am not alone. Until you have written an opus worthy of binding and hit the wrong button (btw, I could handle it if it were far to the right of the submit button), you do not appreciate how infernal that clear button can really be.

Amazing - never had that! Always screwed things myself using the redisplay button... But we wouldn't kick that, would we?

Compromise is a good thing about the Clear button. I made a location change request in Drool and the magicians there put it to the far right of the box in which I am now writing...opposite corner from the submit button. That is great. BTW, when I do want to delete the whole mess I highlight one line, hit the control+A and it is all highlighted. Then I hit the delete button on the computer and it is gone! Just a thought. I spent two days looking for good wallpaper for music but came up empty. I canno read through those same-color-as-the-post eyes and notes. Oh well...it is not my conference...=)

The Front Page - http://www.spring.net - looks incredible with the black background. Really stands out. Wolf said she can see the pictures in the table on the right but I cannot see them. I dumped cache, closed out the computer, rebooted and the whole nine yards. I still cannot see them, though I can see the globe at the bottom of the middle table. I know, get rid of Netscape! Must I purge my hotlist again to get any of the graphics I am supposed to be seeing? I need help - what else is new?! Anyway, it looks sensational. Just thought you should know...*smile*

And, if the black wallpaper is the intended one, would Ree's artwork not be exquisite on such a background in that large empty square in the middle table? The type colors chosen would be exactly right with the "painting", as well. We would have the classiest front page on the entire web!

May I please make a little request when there is nothing else to do? Could you please consider putting the beautiful blue sky with the white puffy clouds as music conf wallpaper? It is screwback1...and we would be rid of the eyes and stuff forever...*sigh* Thanks!

Since I still cannot telnet, would you please link History 5 to Today conference, please?! No one goes into history much, and the topic is "This Day in History" which is appropriate to Today as well as to History... ..isn't it?

yup!

Coz if they don't no one's gonna read'um...*sigh*

...excepting a very few choice indivuals of discernment who are curious and intelligent and otherwise superior *grin*

Is there any place for a UTC clock like this one? It is in Geo 14 now and works just fine, but on my desktop it does not...*frown*

Is there any way to put it on the title page of the conference without messing up what is already there? I'd love to have it there in Geo but do not want to tempt fate enough to put it there and risk messing up what was origianlly created to be there.

can't see it *frown* what's a utc cock?

Tells time GMT or Zulu to you military types. It is in post 279 and if you click on it and hit the reload you will see that it is the USNO Master Clock and it will count up for you for about 5 seconds. Better, i guess, to have one which keeps refreshing even when the page is loaded - like the Visto banners do.

I finally found wallpaper for the Music Conference...possibly. Please check my files at www.spring.net. It is the only one in the wallpaper folder. Thanks!

The UTC clock still works and no one reads this topic...I guess I am wasting my time here. This would be a good place to write comments between people who do not like to have others read their postings....*sigh*

Feel free to recolor it to suit Alexander...but you would be doing a great service to those who might not otherwise go into the music conference since it has such annoying wallpaper now. I would be most appreciative...

I need some help with the web wizards here due to a too busy schedule . . . the stuff I posted on the main page on geo is "squished" and I need someone to troubleshoot it and figure out how to expand it. Clue, it's FrontPage 2000 enabled. I can add more folks to the FrontPage authoring list.

And the stuff I fixed a couple weeks ago isn't working again. I'll take a look at it.

I had to do a rev on the stuff you did, because the bottom of the page was a big empty expanse. But now the frame is "squishing" the geo stuff of Marci's.

It was those {pre} tags. They'll do it every time. Best to stay away from them when trying to do that sort of thing. Something also goes fluey when it goes through Front Page with respect to Netscape. I think it is the "base" tag at the top. I don't think that works for Netscape at all, so for everyone who had been using that browser, the page doesn't load for them. I fixed that too (but that base tag should probably come out, I left it there), but if it goes through FP again, I think it will happen again.

I'll try to stay away with FP if at all possible. I'll look to see if you fixed the squishness of the geo content.

The problem, now, Ann is that the page ends at an odd spot: . . . 6 80 Plate Tectonics: The Physical Dynamics of The Crust (MarciaH) 7 69 Paleontology: fossils, coprolites, and petrified wood (MarciaH) 8 624 Precious Stones and Metals: Physical and Chemical Properties (MarciaH) 9 145 Seismology: Earthquakes - The Science and Updates on Current Activity (MarciaH) 10 19 See how it ends on topic 10 unexpectedly? Feel free to play around with the page, Ann. I love it that someone other than me is working on this page! Thanks so much!

Um, did you fiddle with it again in Front Page? It's not working at all with Netscape again. You should take a look at it with Net. too and see what the problems are. It doesn't load at all.

No, I didn't open it with FrontPage. I'll look at it with Netscape, what's causing the Netscape problems?

Don't know what is causing it but I have a plain yellow wallpaper and that is ALL I get. And, Yes, I am using Netscape...

I downloaded Communicator 4.7 today, but didn't get a chance to look at it.

I think it is the "base" tag at the start. I think that only works for IE. Makes a mess of Netscape.

I'm gonna do a bit of work on it now...

Sure, go Ann! Thanks so much. Great to have you on the web team.

Okay, I cleaned it up so that it works with Netscape again. I don't know what changes you had made to it since I last did it, but I tried to make the same ones. If you make any changes, make sure you re-download the latest version to your machine before you begin, that way you start with the version that I've fixed and not the old one. (I also took out the base tag, we'll have to see if that makes a difference.) And I added the 10th topic under the Geo list at the bottom. Don't know if you wanted all the topics there or not. **************** Redesign ideas (Warning, these are pretty different from what you have, and you might not like it! Remember, a lot of this is my own personal taste! Take it for what it is.): First, if you look at http://Austen.com or http://www.pemberley.com/qindex.htm, you'll see that there isn't that much on those pages (on the Pemberley, there is no content at all there)--and, importantly, that most of the page fits on the first screen, without the need to scroll down. (I didn't do the design on these, but you can see the same thing in action on some others I've worked on: http://www.wda.org, http://www.hmrecovery.org/) All these pages work more as a pass-through on the way to other things on the site. -- They save the bulk of the information for the interior of the site, with pages dedicated to that part of the content. On Austen's Front Door, there are only a handful of links and a bit of text on the front page--no real content. My intent there is to explain what the different sections to the site are, and give people a way to get to them. That keeps the front page clean and neat, and makes it quick to load--averaging about 11 seconds for me with a 28.8 connection. The first thing I would do if I were redoing the Spring page, would be to get rid of the picture. Too often the picture has little interesting content--sometimes a plain blue screen, and the 30 second refresh isn't long enough for someone to see everything on the page before they are interrupted by the page reloading. I timed it 3 times, and the page averaged 37 seconds to load. That's on the high end of things to begin with, then 30 seconds go by, and the person has to wait 37 seconds again for the page to reload. It will drive people off. If the video and sound capabilities of the Spring are important, there might be better ways to get the point across. The MS theme with the autumn leaves is used in other places on the web, and I don't know if you want that. Perhaps it is better to have a unique look. (I'm personally not a fan of the javascript buttons at the top, but that's personal taste.) Also, the theme list points (animated gif leaves in "What's Here" and "Inside") are about doubling the size of the page (not counting load-time on those images.) Keeping things as quick to load as possible is usually desireable. The two lists ("Discussions" and "Inside") aren't as helpful as they could be. Someone who has never been to the site, for example, won't know what "drool!" or "vc" are; they need more explanation than that. People are unlikely to spend a whole lot of time browsing through the different boards, most of which won't match their personal interests--best to let them know about the ones that they would like at the start. Hmmm....well, that would be a start >:) ********* Once again, those ideas are just one person's opinion. Take them or leave them!

Why don't you just redo the whole page from scratch, and rename the page we have now and make a link to it, call it the webcam page or something and just have the picture and sound link on it. I agree about the leaves thing and the reloading, just start from scratch if you're up to it. I would love it if you would implement all of these ideas and give us a fresh, new look. Great ideas! I would love it if they could happen.

What sort of graphical look do you want?

Something that conveys the spirit of discussions and conversation, and gets people into our conversations quickly, and also provides us with some affiliate revenue.

I've seen a number of Spring logos around here. Do you have an archive of them anywhere? Could you give me a list of them. (In other words, I need some place to start. I'm not an artist, and I need something to work from.)

Okay, I've started to do a design based on: Hope that works for you!

Yup! A sentimental favorite of mine, actually!

Here you go...not many of the links work, and it will mean a redesign of some of the pages that are being linked to (for example, I couldn't tell if there was much difference between the "Shop" link and the "Store" link, so I figured they could be combined. Also, is there a way for someone to browse the conference list without signing up at all? Okay, here's a prototype: New Spring Home Page?

Wow!!! Looking great Ann!!!

I made the "Contents" page too. That is linked at the top of the pages. I tried to sort of combine the list of favorite conferences, the list of hosted websites, and the full list of conferences.

Going cross-eyed staring at this!!!

Give your eyes a rest and please check this for me. I'll check yours now. http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/browse/geo/all/new

I like your divider bars. Very pretty. Your buttons at the top are ending up on 2 lines. You might want to force that more. Perhaps by putting in a {br} tag before the "Search" or "Users" button. That way, you'll end up with 4-5 buttons on the top and 3-4 buttons on the second line. I like the background, though on my laptop it might be a little too dark--not by much though, and laptops are a strange breed.

I really love it, Ann. Wow. I'll have some detailed comments later, when I get off work, but I'd go ahead nad archive the present page and put that up. There are more Spring logos if you search through the gifs and jpgs. Contents is great!

Excellent redesign, Ann! *clap clap* One minor suggestion: Do you want to emphasize the locale so prominently? In this day and age, where something is shouldn't be important and most of Spring's participants are from all over the world. While it is interesting that Spring is based out of Austin, having the two mentions [Austin, Texas Community Town Hall and Everyone's a Texan Here] might be a turnoff or lead people to believe that only Texans would be interested in the goings on at Spring. You know, like it's a local messageboard. Do you understand? No slight to Austinites or Texans intended. Also, Terry are you getting any money from Visto? Have you applied to actually get the rebate? If not, why are you advertising the affiliation so prominently as well?

I wondered that too, Karen. I agree with you; the internet is international, and relating it too much to one city might be bad. I made the Membership page too.

We want to emphasize it some, but empasize our austen.com and firth.com sites and developing sites. Let's tone down the Austin, Texas thing to not turn off folks but still make mention. I don't want to emphasize it as a local messageboard at all.

...and about that Membership page... Is that how it will be? Have payment methods been set up? I wouldn't put something like that up unless it were 100% accurate. Evidently the Springcom steering group is coming to naught. Will delist myself.

I just copied the page that was already there for Membership. Working on webhosting now. (just changed the top buttons a bit.)

Ann, as soon as I wake up gonna do the breaks where you suggested. Thanks!!!

Ann: The question was directed at Terry.

OK, i can't get in to see ann's design, what gives?

I moved it to the front page, just do http://www.spring.net .

I changed the Visto ad at the top to be an include. That will make it easier to swap it with something else, if that's ever needed.

oh wow! ann, you did a great job!!

Terry, according to what I'm seeing, this page: http://www.spring.net/webhosting/features.htm is only linked from one other page: http://www.spring.net/webhosting/support/cgi/unix/autoresponder/autoresponder.htm (which is pretty deep into the site) It's quite a usefull page there, going mostly to waste :(

I agree. We need to add a little version of the webcam gif with a sound link like we had on the old page because quite a few folks are paying me to run this ccontent. The gif is at http://www.spring.net/cap.jpg and the sound link you can grab from the old page. I'm thinking of supporting educational courses on our site, which could be tied in to Barnes and Noble University. I'm not quite sure how to forge this relationship yet, but it's incubating in my mind. So NEED AND IMAGE needs to have the /cap.jpg link to a little jop that will clikc to a bigger picture like on the old page with no size restrictions. Great work Ann, you've done a bunch in very little time. Thanks!@!!!!

I almost like the page with all the conferences as the main page with the other buttons that are centered on the main page moved to the left, what do folks think?

Can you pic a particularly picturesque picture for the cap.jpg? Since they shift around a lot, I'd like to pick a single one that is attractive.

I like the conferences on the front page down one side, too. That was our original reason for being here, and still attracts a lot of attention that austen.com does not first attract. I am working on abbout 5 different and interesting and knowledgable men to post in here.....we need to make a complete list of conferences on the front page...not just one of the dozen options (IMHO, of course!)

I don't stop by for a few days and HOLY SMOKE! You re-arranged all the furniture!! I like the new look, though I find the colors a bit dark for my taste (I'm a pastel kind-o-grrl). But it's very nice... Congrats to Ann, who ever you are ;-)

Sure, let's let it run as the webcam and pick one, anyone who sees a great picture do a right mouse click and save on it and send it in and we'll use that one.

Geba, gotta turn on the lights when you come back in... trip and you might miss that race.....

Ann, I put the link to cap.jpg but it needs to be sized to fit in that little frame. Can you do this, 'cause I've been doing all my gif sizing w/ frontpage and am hesitant to impose it on the page after your redesign.

Where is the cap image? (Usually, you are better off using a graphics program to resize the images than if you use HTML width and height tags to do it. Different browsers treat those differently, and the images usually end up looking funny.) BTW, I've finished converting all the Webhosting pages--there were a ton and a half of them! It took me about 3 days to do all of them--and the Help pages. Only area left is the Affiliates, which shouldn't take long. Terry, do you have a page for webcasting services (like webhosting)? If you are offering that as a service, people should be able to get info for it.

It's in the virtual_html directory. Since it's an image that changes every 30 seconds, it would be better to use width and height tags in this case. Would you create a basic webcast page at http://www.spring.net/webcast as index.html? If you do I'll go in and add some text content. thanks thanks thanks!

BTW, I used Front Page to do the work, so you needent fear using it.

I made up the Webcasting page. /webcast/index.html.

Hey thanks and more thanks Ann. It's wonderful what you're doing. I'm winding up an 18 hours day at work and it's so great to finally get this bunch of suns on the Internet. Sot he first thing I did was look at your latest handwork. I'll add some text to that webcasting page. You're so good, Ann!

I finally got the chance to look at the redesign on a different computer. Didn't like what I saw :( I'll have to do some tweaking, I think.

What was the difference between computers? Browsers?

Terry or wer: Someone just created a new topic at Drool. Thought that feature had been shutdown and that only the hosts could do that?