tantric yoga

From Sungja: The basis of trantric sex that I learned was that it is possible to achieve "enlightenment" (or whatever your favorite term is) by practicing special ways of fucking. The Rajneesh version had it that the teacher of (it's always the teacher of) bagwan shree Rajneesh reached the highest level of consciousness possible minus one. He achieved this state through the practice of yoga sutras and meditation. Once he attained this state he understood that no individual human could get to the next (and final) level of consciousness alone, you need to have a partner. That was why the teacher devised many ways of meditating and so on, so that lots of people (including women) could reach this next to top level of consciousness. Then they could use tantra to get the final boost (as it were). Although there are variations on tantric sex, the basic idea is for both partners to get right to the edge of orgasm and then hold that mental state until you enter that field of pure consciousness. And what the hell, if it doesn't work, it sure is fun to try again the next day! For my money, this beats all other methods of getting enlightened hands down. I tried them all, and this one, *take my word for it*, is numero uno. No,...damn it,....don't take my word for it, go and try it out. ;)

Terry! You used the F-word!!!! I'm so proud of you!

Tantric yoga sounds like it could be the basis for one of the greatest pick-up lines of all time. We used recombinant genetics when I was in school. (as a pick-up line basis)

Actually I quoted someone who used the f word. So comments on tantric sex, Ree and wolf (since y'all are so feisty about this).

I would if I had a clue what it was about, Ter! I mean, I read through it, but I don't get it. Let's see which part I misinterpret here. Okay, so you sit opposite your partner, cross-legged, naked, thumbs and middle-fingers pressed together. You meditate until you get in the mood. And then together you meditate till you reach orgasm? The problem with that kind of sex, I find, is this: you sit naked opposite a naked man, and don't even get to touch him so much as with the tip of a finger??? You only get to think about all the things he could do to you, and vice versa? What's the point? I mean, he's naked, he's in the mood, I'm in the mood - why the waste of time? JUST DO IT, I always say!

That's not it. You *do it* in tantric sex, but you do it for a very long time and you feel in touch with your whole body.

David Gray has this to say about tantric yoga: No. to think full "body" orgasm is to misunderstand Tantra (at least as I understand it) pretty totally. It's about integrating what is corporeal and what is beyond the corporeal. In this sense Tantra and Kundalini yoga are cousins. Disclaimer: I am not expert, or even particularly knowledgeable about Tantra, but I am a long time reader of Akit Mukerjee (who is expert) 's books on Tantric Thankas (images, often mandalas and always "art") useful for meditation) and a once-upon-a-time student of it. I think Tantra is about energy, not specifically sex - it's about consciousness and channeling energy, sex is a powerful component. The idea of orgasm without ejaculation is not about the body, but about the consciousness - which Tantra, unlike many other branches, derivatives and/or neighbors of Buddhism, does not disassociate from the corporeal. So the practice of Tantric yoga, which can include but is not exclusive to sexual activity, should lead to directing energy through all seven chakras, which should make one a fully conscious, charged being, able to consciously direct huge flows of energy. My understanding of "tantric sex", which I have practiced but never achieved is the energy of orgasm should be a flow of energy to the seventh chakra, which is pictured in Thankas floating above one's corporeal head, instead of the second, and rather base chakra. ("Chakra" can be defined as "energy terminal" - I think it is cognate with the primary energy, or Chi, termina as taught in Chinese medicine.

I found a website with all kinds of tantric lore: http://www.tantra.org/ Tantricks use the principle of the ritual sublimation of natural impulses to attain altered states of consciousness. Tantrik adepts are trained to direct all their energies toward the conquest of the Eternal. The ritual satisfaction of lust and the consumption of consecrated meat or liquor are esoterically significant means of realizing the unity of flesh and spirit, of the human and the divine. They are not considered sinful acts but, on the contrary, effective means of salvation. Most westerners use the word "Tantra" to cover sacred and enhanced sexuality. Tantra, as practised in the West, referred to as "neo-Tantra", borrows from many traditions including Taoism, Hindu Tantra, Native American Quodoshka, African, Polynesian, Wiccan, Christian Gnosticism, etc. Real "Tantra" is a rigorous spiritual discipline and vast field of study -- the sexual aspect is a small but important part of it. Mystical experiences and altered states of consciousness result from many of the processes, especially the ones dealing with sexual energy. Ritual copulation is, for both partners, a form of sacralization, tke act being a participation in cosmic and divine processes. The experience of transcending space and time, of surpassing the phenomenal duality of spirit and matter, of recovering the primeval unity, the realization of the identity of God and his Sakti, and of the manifested and unmanifested aspects of the All, these constitute the very mystery of the Tantra. Contents: Tantra Sacred Orgasms Lesbian Sacred Sexuality American Tantra Tantric Sex: A Spiritual Path of Ecstasy The Basis of Tantra Common Questions About Tantra Answered An Overview of Tantra Breath Control Fantasy Tibetan Buddism and Tantric Yoga Yoni Massage, Lingam Massage, Karezza The Will in Tantra The Tantric Path Psychic Protection The Polarity Process Left Hand Path of Tantra The Love Teachings of the Kama Sutra Join the Church of Tantra Sex Magick Sex Magic Primer, The Sex Magic process, Resources: Tantra Events Tantra Resources Tantra Giftshop Books, New Items, Aphrodisiacs,

so this is some kind of hindu thing? so what happens once you reach this state? do you just fall over?

well, fall over and take a nap...

Oh, cool! However - I cannot imagine having a willy in me for many hours on end to be all that much of a turn-on. I blame it on an invention callled the tampon.

Do women generally like to be on top.

I like being on top, but sometimes I also like it when he has the 'control'. But we normally switch around while we're doing it, so I guess it's 50/50 - I don't really care whether I'm on top or not during orgasm. Do men like for women to be on top generally?

Yes, in this case. What's the usual duration, Ree?

Hello, Thanks for your interest in my writings on the subject of sacred sex, karezza, and tantra. If you have read my essays at tantra.org or some other mirror-site, you may be interested to know that my own site, Sacred Sex, contains many more essays. Topics not mirrored elsewhere include lengthy descriptive pages on male control of orgasm, the function of the clitoris, and more. The URL is http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredsex.html I hereby give my permission for you to excerpt the text and graphics at the following URL http://www.luckymojo.com/ for one-time, non-commercial use only. Please be sure that the copyright information is included in your off-print. I am not a teacher of these practices and i do not maintain a list of such teachers in the USA or other countries. You may, however, find links to some teachers via my web page "Links to Other Web Sites about Tantra, Karezza, and Sacred Sex" at http://www.luckymojo.com/tkwebsites.html I believe that if you study from books, you will have good results...unless you belive in a literal hierarchy of "lineage," in which case, you will not be satisfied until you meet a guru. Personally, i believe that what we call "tantra" has in some form existed since the neolithic era. Therefore i believe that any human being can have access to its benefits, wihout the need for a guru or teacher. The Indian form of sacred sex practice, called tantra yoga, is only one path, in my opinion. You may be able to find a copy of "Tantra: The Cult of the Feminine" by Andre van Lysebeth and it will indicate to you some of the traditional Indian practices as well as non-Indian forms of sacred sexuality such as Karezza (Magnetation) as propounded by Alice Bunker Stockham and John William Lloyd. Unfortunately, due to the duties of my regular work and the sheer number of requests i receive for personal correspondence, i cannot engage in e-mail dialogue at this time. However, for ongoing world-wide discussions on the subject of sacred sex, in which i am a regular participant, you might enjoy subscribing to the usenet newsgroup alt.magick.tantra If your isp does not carry it; just ask. Good luck, catherine yronwode Sacred Sex: http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredsex.html Cordially, catherine yronwode Lucky Mojo Curio Co: http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html The Lucky W Amulet Archive: http://www.luckymojo.com/luckyw.html Sacred Sex: http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredsex.html The Sacred Landscape: http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredland.html Freemasonry for Women: http://www.luckymojo.com/comasonry.html Comics Warehouse: http://www.luckymojo.com/comicswarehouse.html check out news:alt.lucky.w for discussions on folk magic and luck

I don't believe in using witchcraft for sex. On the website quoted, there a re books of spells available. this is witchcraft. I am also not into satan worship. The freemasons are a satan-worshipping cult. Don't believe me. Read the handbook given to 32nd degree masons.

Careful, my husband is a freemason, and sure as hell not a satan worshipper. Or if he is, then I'd like to go to hell with all the other normal people some day! ha-ha! To come back to your question about duration, Terry. I don't know, really. I guess it varies alot. You?

Yep, I do. But variety is good too. I'm not attached to one particular method.

Yeah. Any favourite methods?

Hey, here's a fasincating tantric web page that I stumbled across searching something else. I was search for "austin" and "wired" in Yahoo and found this tonight: http://www.luckymojo.com/tknorthaustin.html Men often ask me what i think of various techniques for the control of male orgasm, specifically those advocated by Mantak Chia and his peers. Stripping away the spiritual veneer from their teachings and getting down to biological basics, these authors promote what i call the "mechanical tantra" school of training. Basically, they either recommend manual pressure on the base of the penis or perineum to prevent ejaculation or the development of internal muscular control of the penile sphincters to produce retrograde ejaculation -- backing the sperm up into the urinary bladder. They cite as sources for their teachings early writers, including some yogic adepts. There is no doubt that some of these "secret teachings of tantra" are ancient, but that doesn't make them attractive. Hindu yoga is filled with adepts who promote oddball practices, including drinking urine and running cloth through one's alimentary canal from one end to the other. I certainly find these tantra techniques physiologically interesting. But if i were a man i would not feel as if i had accomplished anything very useful, not to mention spiritual, if i had to manually squeeze myself every time i wanted to stop from coming. And as for retrograde ejaculation, well, the idea makes me cringe. I would most definitely not want to practice something so counter-biological, nor can i see how snuffling semen up into one's bladder could conceivably be expected to produce the psychological and metaphysical benefits its adherents claim for it. (I never was much for quaffing pee or stuffing towels down my esophagus, either.) Okay, you say, so if i don't like these particular techniques, what advice can i, a woman, give to a man about control of the male orgasm? That's a difficult question to answer. I could make the assumption that our neural systems are similar despite gender differences in circulatory hydraulics and tell you what some women do...or i could tell you what some of my male friends tell me they do. I guess i shall opt for the latter. This is a little slice of life i call: THE TRIP TO TEXAS or: REVELATION IN NORTH AUSTIN In the mid 1970s i met my first tantra lover. I had read about karezza and tantra since i was a teenager; he had read about tantra and other forms of yoga, including raja yoga, kundalini yoga, and so forth. We had been friends for about four years when it happened that both our marriages fell apart at the same time. We were all hippies living on rural subsistence farm communes in the Missouri Ozarks. His commune and mine were about 60 miles apart. Both of our partners were soon repartnered, and both of us continued to live on the communes with our ex-spouses and our children. Eventually, he and i decided to start up an affair. In the course of flirting (he'd come over to help our group plant potatoes), we got to talking about tantra -- and he said that his fondest wish was to try it. I said i felt the same way. For whatever reason of luck, grace, spiritual blessings from on high, or you name it, we were able to experience that form of union with no prior practice and having never even kissed each other prior to our first experiment. Perhaps we were just naturally lucky. I don't know. Well, he and i rocked on for quite a while, visiting each other regularly and exploring the heights of bliss (when we weren't quarreling over something or other). In 1976, about a year after we got together, we decided to hitchhike down to Austin, Texas, to visit my best friend Barry Carroll, a man i'd known back in my home state of California. He was married and had a child. My tantra lover and i hung out with his family for almost a week. While we were there, Barry said that he wanted to take us around North Austin, up by the lake, so we could view the terrain. As we were driving along the cliffs, admiring the fancy homes and interesting landscape, we got to talking about a magazine article my lover and i were co-writing about Alice Bunker Stockham, the originator of karezza. (It was eventually published in the New Age Journal.) Barry, who was a student of the occult, said he had read about some of this stuff in old books, but he wanted to know how one could really do it -- how a man could control his orgasms. I kinda shrugged and threw up my hands, but my lover said, "Aw, all you do is relax your abdominal muscles and slow down your breathing. And you have to remain conscious, of course. That's all there is to it." I can still remember exactly where we were when this happened. We were rounding a curve. I looked at Barry and he just nodded. "I get it," he said. And that was the end of the conversation. A day or two later, the three of us drove to the town of Fredricksburg, from whence we were to set off hitchhiking to visit my lover's cousin in California. It was a pretty little place. After lunch Barry took us to a good spot, let us out, snapped our pictures as we picked up our heavy backpacks, and said goodbye. Almost 20 years passed before the two of us again discussed the techniques of karezza or tantra yoga. In the meantime, my lover and i had drifted apart and Barry and i had had a brief love affair, during which i realized that he too had become tantrically adept. We used our knowledge to bring about heightened states of consciousness in ourselves, and had some intensely lovely moments, but we never talked much about that stuff, we just let it happen...and after a while i got married to another guy and he entered a second long-term monogamous relationship with a new gal, and the subject was inappropriate, so it never came up. It wasn't until 1996, while talking about our lives, that Barry and i again touched on the subject of tantra. He knew i was writing about it for publication, and he asked me what i planned to say. I told him that the most often asked question -- and the one for which i have the scantiest answer, is the one that men ask: "How can i learn to control my orgasm response?" "Hmmm," he said. I took this as an opportunity to ask him. "So...how did you learn to do it?" "I didn't learn. It just happened to me. You and D---- gave it to me by...by transmission, i guess. Remember back in the seventies when you all came to visit and we were driving along the cliffs above Lake Austin? Well, we were in the car...and we were rounding a curve... and i asked how you could learn to do that and D---- said, 'Just relax your abdominal muscles, breathe slowly, and stay conscious.' "It was like...a blinding flash of light. Like Zen satori. The moment he said it, i knew what he meant. I...I felt it...inside myself...like something turning. I knew exactly what he meant. And i could hardly wait to get back home and try it with A---." Why did i tell such a long, personal story to answer this question? Well, if hearing those simple instructions worked for my friend, maybe they will work for you. THE REALITY BEHIND THE REVELATION When i showed the above piece to Barry, he had the following commentary to add: The incident cat describes is true but maybe not as mystical as it sounds. What happened is that I suddenly saw how what [her lover] said connected with things I already understood. As part of fitness training, I had lifted weights and done some yoga-style stretching. In the process I had learned a bit about how breathing worked to manage the tension and relaxation of muscles. The build-up to orgasm involves a progressive increase in muscular tension. I realized that if I was more aware of where I was tensing, I could relax those muscles and maybe slow the process. I noticed that along with my abdomen, my lower back and thighs would tense up as I approched orgasm. During sex I practiced relaxing those areas while holding on to the sensation I call the glow. One part of learning to relax was to keep breathing slowly and deeply, not holding my breath when orgasmic tension would start to build. I found that I could difuse the tension by taking shallower in-breaths and deeper out-breaths. One woman teased me about "blowing out birthday candles one by one." Sometimes the moment that control turned out to be the most important for me was when I first entered my partner, especially if I was nervous or the whole thing was just too exciting. At those times, in addition to simple relaxation and breathing, I found that by wiggling my fingers or toes for a moment I could cue myself to loosen up if I was getting too tightly wound. From the standpoint of maintaining control for an extended period, I think some positions are better than others. A position that has partners lying on their sides may work better than the so-called missionary or man-on-top position, since supporting your body push-up style makes it harder to stay loose. Woman-on-top gives you, the man, a good opportunity to stay loose, while your partner may enjoy the chance to be more active. Another big help in maintaining relaxation is communication with your partner. Even with someone you don't know well, a few words about what you're trying to do gets you both on the same page. Likewise she may have some things she wants you to know. Two brief stories illustrate how all this applies in real life: At one time I was involved with a modest woman who often took a long time to come. She said that she liked sex, but for her it usually wasn't about orgasms. When we were able to take it slow, I could sometimes enjoy a couple of small peaks along the way, building the glow and backing off, as we worked our way to a big peak together. In another stage of my life, I met a woman who was very comfortable with her body and was open about sex in general. We were able to talk about various sexual issues. For example, she had worked to control the contraction of her vaginal muscles and before long she took an interest in controlling her own orgasm response too. During sex we tried to maintain eye contact and we would signal as we got near our peaks. Sometimes we'd build and drop back together. Sometimes she'd go to orgasm while I'd hang back, and then we'd build again and both go over the edge. There is no one right way to develop ejaculatory control, but by experimenting with a combination of relaxing key muscles, breathing, using certain positions, and maintaining communication, you can develop a style that works for you. So there is one man's story -- and i thank him very much for taking the time to tell it. "RELAX, JUST RELAX" That famous phrase was the shortest daily newspaper column Will Rogers ever wrote. (He had just regained consciousness from a serious medical operation but couldn't bear to miss his deadline.) This issue of "relaxation" rather than "suppression" of orgasm means a lot to me as a woman, too. It is the method i use. Earlier i said that i would not try to tell men what i do, because i am a woman and it might not be appropriate. But my techniques are the same as my friend's and my ex-lover's. I don't clench anything or press on anything or suppress anything. I just relax. I also have a theory as to why this technique worked so well for me, from the very first time i tried it. Before meeting my first tantra lover, i had two home births using the La Maze method. This is a technique that allows a woman in labour to relax the rest of her body while her uterus is contracting, so as to avoid or diminish the pain that often results from spending hours in a state of partial tetany due to "sympathetic tension" in irrelevant muscle groups. During pregnancy, the La Maze trained woman is taught to separate various muscle groups from one another and relax them one at a time on the key word "relax." The training also involves proficiency in several forms of shallow and deep breathing. It is usually undertaken with the co-parent as a training partner. He is encouraged to participate, not just as a coach, but as a fellow-trainee. Essentially, a well-trained La Maze couple enters into a state of mutual Pavlovian conditioning. On the general command "relax," there will be an overall increase in mental alertness and a loss of all bodily tension. On specific commands such as "relax your right leg," that part of the body alone will go limp while the rest will stay as before. Breathing rhythms are montiored separately from muscle relaxation, and "blocking" the breath (tensing the diaphagm) is avoided. I am convinced that when the subject of tantra or karezza techniques was first broached to me, my previous La Maze training came into play. In particular, i am sure that the key word "relax" induced a specific, TRAINED bodily response. I was able control my orgasm respons from my first try not because i am somehow gifted, but because i unconsciously applied months of La Maze training to the situation of sexual arousal. In support of this theory -- or rather, in support of the part of it that depends on a presumption that La Maze conditioning may persist for years after childbirth -- i can add that some time after my second daughter was born i was at a dentist's undergoing a root canal and he casually asked me to "relax." I automatically went into that alert-but-zoned La Maze state of mind. The dentist chuckled and asked me if i had ever done La Maze training. When i said i had, he told me that he had noticed that several of his patients -- whom he described as "hippie women" -- could be made to relax on that verbal cue while he was working on their mouths. I realize that to me, the key words "relax your abdominal muscles" probably meant far more than they would have meant to someone who had not had La Maze training. Those few words restimulated months of conditioning during which i had learned to isolate and relax the abdominal muscle group while continuing to breathe lightly and stay alert. I think that's why i "got it" the first time i heard relaxation suggested as a form of orgasm control. Barry Carroll, the man who wrote the commentary above, knew about La Maze training too. In fact, his mother was a gynecologist who taught La Maze to her patients, and he and my ex-partner Peter had been my co-coaches during the home birth of my daughter Althaea. The breathing technique he described is taught in La Maze childbirth training. So i asked him if he thought that his life-long familiarity with the La Maze method might have had an effect on his rapid self-training in orgasm control. He replied: In my family La Maze was a way of life. I didn't say it, but orgasm control is simply a re-application of the La Maze technique to a different purpose. Everything you said is true. If you know that drill, you know what it's about ... so this was yet another reason why your comments connected with my experience. I think that in talking about orgasm control with anyone who's had kids via La Maze you can take a big shortcut. The rest can probably recycle the same training, going in the reverse direction, if they ever have kids. My correspondence with Barry has given me a new idea: Why not train people in orgasm control by explicitly using the La Maze method? It is not religious or spiritual, but i KNOW it would work. La Maze course curicula are well established and the method itself has a long history of success. Much of the support material aimed at childbirth training for couples (instructional manuals, diagrams, and so forth) could be adapted to teaching orgasm control to couples. In addition, because many people have gone through La Maze training in preparation for childbirth, they would be familiar with La Maze principles and key words and could rapidly re-apply them to orgasm control. I believe it would be relatively easy for a tantra or karezza teacher to achieve a high rate of success in students by adapting the La Maze method to orgasm control. I am not a teacher, but if i were, i would do it. If nothing else, such training would be a lot more biologically elegant and sex-positive than telling men that the highest heavenly bliss of spiritual coition they can attain in this life depends on their learning how to reverse-pump their semen into their own bladders