Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1058 of 1071: Karen (KarenR) * Wed, Jul 1, 1998 (14:04) * 16 lines (Evelyn) Did anyone else feel that there was an intense physical attaction between Nostromo and Emilia?...I can't find any reference in the book that would document this, nor in the notes. But I felt the screenplay made a point of this in a subliminal manner. You're quite right, Evelyn, it does give that impression but is unsupported by the book. What the book (or my reading of it and other stuff) would support is an adoration of the one character that Conrad has set up at the *good* end of the values continuum. Nostromo is the "natural" man (at the far left, i.e., beginning of evolution) and is only interested in his good name. He really has no principles, so to speak. Emilia, on the other hand, comes to symbolize the greater humanity that Conrad advocate (far right of the spectrum). She has given up her self and is understanding and kind with no ulterior motives. Throughout the book, Conrad mentions her and a Madonna image. Remember, in episode one, at the mining camp as they are eating, Nostromo calls her a Madonna. Anyway, at the very end, when Nostromo is trying to confess his sin and she doesn't want to hear it, this becomes her moment of vision, her renouncement of the materialism that she supported with her husband. There are so many great comments here today that I will need to read them over carefully and get back later or manana (pretend there's a tilde sobre la n)! Best Looking/Fav Scene (No deep symbolism here) ;-) Colin has got to look his absolutely best near the end when they're having a dinner party after they're won the battle against the Monteros. He's wearing a red vest and an open-necked shirt and looks soooooo confidant and yummy, maybe because he thinks all his troubles are over. Nostromo shows up and Charles tries to offer him some reward for his accomplishment in going over the mountains to notify General Barrios. Nostromo of course tells him that he can't do anything for him and Emilia goes after him. I love how Charles/Colin sees what is happening and understands what she is doing and how right it is for Nostromo. As he approaches them in the garden and addresses Nostromo as Senor Fidanza, his eyes look to the side, to Emilia as if to show he fully supports whatever she has just said. More later -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1059 of 1071: bethan (lizbeth54) * Thu, Feb 7, 2036 (00:36) * 2 lines I really enjoy your comments, Karen. I think a lot of people just thought about Nostromo "oh, it's not P&P" and gave up on it. But it does warrant some serious thought.... and he does look good, open necked, hatless and relaxed,(and wet in the mine!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1060 of 1071: bethan (lizbeth54) * Thu, Feb 7, 2036 (00:44) * 8 lines I am too brain dead to make any serious contribution, so here are a few quotes from about the time Nostromo came out in the UK (as always,ignore if you've seen them!) Producer (Italian) "I owe so much to the stoicism of the British actors. While the Italians and Spaniards would storm off the set complaining they couldn't work in the heat, Colin Firth and Albert Finney would just sit there sweating it out. Thank goodness for the stiff upper lip." Good lad, Colin! CF on Gould "He isn't very expressive but there are lots of complex emotions bubbling under the surface, I enjoy twisted characters. Playing heroes isn't my strong point!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1061 of 1071: bethan (lizbeth54) * Thu, Feb 7, 2036 (00:54) * 3 lines I'm doing this in short installments, as I keep on losing messages (so frustrating!) The same article says that filming Nostromo was very difficult because of the sweltering heat. CF had an assistant to supply him with water so he didn't become dehydrated, Sets were washed away by rainstorms, the director collapsed from exhaustion, SST was ill after being bitten by bugs, there were some murders near the film set, and local corruption was a problem. CF comments on the children begging for food. Not exactly a fun location! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1062 of 1071: Evelyn (lafn) * Thu, Feb 7, 2036 (01:24) * 9 lines I think a lot of people just thought about Nostromo "oh, it's not P&P" and gave up on it. I think that happened in UK more than in the US where N. was quite popular on PBS. Also didn't BBC sort of force-feed the audience with "mine shows". Rhodes, for instance. Favorite Look: Yeah, Karen, he looks the best in Black Tie. Also in the baggy, beige,linen, suit with the plantation hat!! Worth the Six Hours. Read On, Karen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1063 of 1071: Karen (KarenR) * Thu, Feb 7, 2036 (02:37) * 29 lines BTW Evelyn sent me an article about the making of Nostromo from The Times. As promised, I will cull out the good stuff and post ASAP. But I did remember another Nostromo quote from the great article that Jana posted in April (the Santa Monica interview) that goes to Colin's understanding of his character (Charles Gould could be considered a little more complex than an Iowa farmer - hee hee - but how much F. R. Leavis did he read??) From the sandal-clad, shirttail flapping article: "In the BBC's production of Nostromo, he plays the decidely unheroic part of an Englishman who inherits a defunct silver mine in a fictional South American country called Costaguana. He determines to revive the mine because of 'his belief in the power of industry to civilise the world, but as he succeeds he sacrifices his wife - and everyone else emotionally." 'He's a tricky character" Firth continues, nas if all his characters weren't. 'I don't think I understood him or his obsession.' (Heide) I don't think Charles really cares that much about Costaguana's democracy. Everything is a means to an end for Charles. His mine will bring order to this perpetually corrupt and unstable country. But this is only a phase. "A better justice will come afterwards. That's our ray of hope." Charles sees true promise in this country and its people, and the Western world's tools will shape it and he will be the guiding force to make it happen because, as he tell Emilia, "A man's must work to some end." (Bethan) Fav scenes: The rainy night when Emilia asks if they can go home and says she wants children... Hold your pygmy horses!!! Isn't this the same scene where he says he's going to sleep in the next room because he doesn't want to disturb her when he leaves for the mine early the next morning??? I wanted to slap him. She's talking children and he goes to sleep elsewhere. Brrrr! that was cold. Otherwise, love your choice of scenes, Bethan, and all the great quotes from the book and articles. I'm still ploughing through the book, but by the time you, Evelyn and I finish, everyone here will have almost read it! (Heide) Could it have stayed true to Conrad if we had one less Montero OK, we could leave out General Montero. Pedro is a must! ;-) That reminds me of another great scene - the one between Pedro and Charles after Charles is picked up the first time. The two are sizing each other up. Pedro tries to intimidate Charles, but Don Carlos es muy macho aqui. Charles just stares Pedro down. He is totally fearless and refuses Pedro's offer of safe passage out of the country for him and his wife. PM: Then I will have your shot. CG: Then the mine will be blown up PM puts his arms around CG and it's like PM has just determined that Charles has the requisite number of cajones. Then says, OK, now that we understand each other we could work together. This is a great scene. Colin is cool as a cucumber and even gives a slight smirk when PM says that he is "educated" and lived in Europe. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1064 of 1071: Karen (KarenR) * Thu, Feb 7, 2036 (02:39) * 1 lines Shoot, missed an end tag. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1065 of 1071: Evelyn (lafn) * Thu, Feb 7, 2036 (05:18) * 3 lines requisite number of cajones. I wasn't going to mention this......but I thought surely someone would bring up the scene where he is dragged from his home to the scaffold!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1066 of 1071: Cheryl E (CherylQE) * Thu, Jul 2, 1998 (06:58) * 1 lines Hello to all, I started hanging around a few months ago and was finally able to post to 59 today. I look forward to catching up on all the above posts. I saw some of Valmont being shot (details on 59) so I thought I'd say hi here and come back again. And get some of his other movies in the meanwhile. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1067 of 1071: Karen (KarenR) * Thu, Jul 2, 1998 (10:53) * 13 lines (Me) requisite number of cajones. (Evelyn) but I thought surely someone would bring up the scene where he is dragged from his home to the scaffold!!! LOL!! Yes, that is one of my favorite scenes...purely from a *dramatic* standpoint!! Welcome, Cheryl, to this venue. We'd love to have you participate here as well. Questions: (1) Did it strike anyone as odd that Nostromo had to go overland across the mountains to get General Barrios, but returned by sea? Check the map in your book, Bethan. (2) The meaning of names always gets me. Fidanza is easy, but the significance of Gian Battista. To me it sounds like John the Baptist, but I can't figure out how that relates to Nostromo and what he does. Can anyone shed some light on this. My knowedge of the NT is v. ltd. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1068 of 1071: bethan (lizbeth54) * Thu, Jul 2, 1998 (14:30) * 17 lines I think a lot of people just thought about Nostromo "oh, it's not P&P" and gave up on it. I think that happened in UK more than in the US where N. was quite popular on PBS. Also didn't BBC sort of force-feed the audience with "mine shows". Rhodes, for instance. Interesting point, Evelyn. I honestly think that in the UK, it was assumed that Nostromo wouldn't be successful. Rhodes had been a flop (although it wasn't all that bad) and Nostromo was tarred with the "another mining saga" brush, and put out on Saturday evenings ( not highly regarded for scheduling for some reason). And I think it was also assumed that women would be looking for another Darcy from Colin (One female reviewer wrote that she could havewept when she saw him with a beard!!!) which perhaps many were. WHAT'S WITH ALL THESE ITALICS?!!! I quite liked it though...and my 14 year old son actually thought it was very good. And my husband (who didn't like P&P) found it interesting.....perhaps it had more appeal for the men? (Evelyn) but I thought surely someone would bring up the scene where he is dragged from his home to the scaffold!!! To go back to appeal for the women, I must admit to also being rather transfixed by the scene where he strides (and I really mean STRIDE) in breeches and boots after Dr Monygham to ask him to work in the mine....."Doctor, doctor". Or perhaps it's just those oh so keen eyes of mine again!!! Gian Battista is John the Baptist. Why, I don't know! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1069 of 1071: Evelyn (lafn) * Thu, Jul 2, 1998 (16:09) * 4 lines After reading Cheryl's riveting saga on Valmont, and comparing it to Nostromo. I am struck that the poor man is jinxed. Valmont failed because Dangerous Liaision scuppered them and Nostromo was not a raging success in UK because Rhodes, a poor quality "mine saga" preceded Nostromo. It's a miracle the guy is still in the profession. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1070 of 1071: Heide (heide) * Thu, Jul 2, 1998 (17:40) * 27 lines I don't know if we've ever had such a successful discussion here as we seem to be having with Nostromo. Why is that? It can't be counted as anyone's favorite. Guess the complexity of the plot has more merit that we've given credit. Intense physical attraction between Nostromo and Emilia I believe it was there even if it wasn't in the book. The hand kissing was the clincher. As his lips are leaving her hand, his eyes slide to the side where Charles is watching him. Note the guilty expression. On Nostromo's side, I'd say it was still a Madonna-like attraction. Emilia is an idealized character throughout. On Emilia's side, I'd say she was carried away by Nostromo's heroics and romanticized them, romance being sorely lacking in her life by then. Upon discovering Ramirez's love for the ounger Viola daughter, she wistfully says, "How wonderful to be loved in that way." (Karen) Nostromo shows up and Charles tries to offer him some reward for his accomplishment in going over the mountains to notify General Barrios. Nostromo of course tells him that he can't do anything for him and Emilia goes after him. I love how Charles/Colin sees what is happening and understands what she is doing and how right it is for Nostromo. I too love this scene although I think he sees the tenderness between N. & E. (yes, not in the book) and needs to show he is in charge here. But he knows the right thing and the necessity to show respect and he does it. That's what I like best about Charles--he knows just what to do (except doing poor Emilia). (Karen) ...the one between Pedro and Charles after Charles is picked up the first time. The two are sizing each other up. Pedro tries to intimidate Charles, but Don Carlos es muy macho aqui. Charles just stares Pedro down. He is totally fearless... PM puts his arms around CG and it's like PM has just determined that Charles has the requisite number of cajones And this scene too, love it for the same reasons. Cojones, indeed. Two excellent points you bring up, Karen. Nostromo was a sailor. He could have gone by sea as well to bring Barrios back. And where was Barrios hiding his boat in those mountains? :-) Shades of Fitzcarraldo? And Gian Battiste/John the Baptist. Excellent association. Been eating your brain food, dear? (Bethan) And I think it was also assumed that women would be looking for another Darcy from Colin (One female reviewer wrote that she could have wept when she saw him with a beard!!!)... You're probably absolutely right. Though P&P-fever reigned in the US, it seems nowhere near to the depth as in the UK. Can Colin be forgiven yet for playing someone other than Darcy? Okay, down to the basics. Does he fight effectively with Montero? Heck, he misses him with the gun. How do we compare his fighting technique with say, 1000 Acres or others? In the scene celebrating at Casa Gould after Charles is saved and Montero escaped, I think Charles is a bit drunk. Personally, I think Colin does drunk scenes very well. Though this one is subtle, anyone care to rate their favorite drunk scenes? Valmont? Femme Fatale? Tumbledown? Pride & Prejudice? (gotcha!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic 67 of 97 [drool]: Colin Firth - Film Discussions Response 1071 of 1071: Arami (Arami) * Thu, Jul 2, 1998 (18:52) * 4 lines *Gian Battista is John the Baptist. Why, I don't know!* Latin and some other Catholic countries have a strong tradition of Christian (first) names. A man may be christened John (the) Baptist after that particular saint and to differentiate expressly from other St Johns, as there are a few. Another such peculiar double Christian name for a man is Jose Maria, comprising the names of the Holy Family - with the name of Jesus customarily omitted out of respect. (Thought you might like to know...)

. Though P&P-fever reigned in the US, it seems nowhere near to the depth as in the UK. True. However, had P&P been shown on PBS (Public Broadcasting System... (BBC-Lite), it would have had far greater audience than it did on A&E. Which is a cable channel and reaches only a v. limited viewing audience. Unfortunately, PBS could not commit the money at production time and A&E did. Sadly, we also got commercials with A&E.

I don't know if we've ever had such a successful discussion here as we seem to be having with Nostromo. Why is that? It can't be counted as anyone's favorite. Guess the complexity of the plot has more merit that we've given credit. Nostromo is flawed, but it isn't shallow...at least it's trying to say something about the human condition. I too love this scene although I think he sees the tenderness between N. & E. (yes, not in the book) and needs to show he is in charge here. But he knows the right thing and the necessity to show respect and he does it. That's what I like best about Charles--he knows just what to do (except doing poor Emilia). I found myself wishing there were more scenes between Charles and Emilia. I think Emilia continues to love Charles (and he her), but she is deeply saddened by the loss of passion, or the transfer of it to the mine. In the book (and at the beginning of the film) it is very clear that there is a strong physical bond beween them... they both find each other very attractive. Okay, down to the basics. Does he fight effectively with Montero? Heck, he misses him with the gun. How do we compare his fighting technique with say, 1000 Acres or others? I could think of other more interesting and visible basics we could get down to but I don't mind using my eyes to scrutinise his fighting technique! I don't think Charles was used to physical combat....I mean , he's bigger than Montero! As to CF's technique elsewhere, I can only recall The Advocate when Courtois punches someone and then rubs his hand. I don't think CF is into macho "I can beat everyone and it doesn't hurt" roles. I wonder if he takes a stand on gratuitously violent roles (he never appears in them)....a missionary-influenced upbringing perhaps? John the Baptist...you're a regular font of knowledge, Arami! :-)

I wonder if he takes a stand on gratuitously violent roles (he never appears in them)....a missionary-influenced upbringing perhaps? Didn't he say somewhere that he would have a problem if a child of his wanted to join the army?

(Bethan) I think Emilia continues to love Charles (and he her), but she is deeply saddened by the loss of passion, or the transfer of it to the mine. Agreed, they still love one another, but Charles just has no time for Emilia. He is obsessed with the mine and neglects her as a result. Initially though Emilia appears to be as caught up with the working of the mine until she realizes that it alone will not change the violent and corrupt ways of the country. In the book (and at the beginning of the film) it is very clear that there is a strong physical bond beween them... they both find each other very attractive. I too noticed a few sections in Part I of the book where that physical attraction is described as follows: "Then, surprised by her husband's silence, she raised her eyes, opened wide, as pretty as pale flowers. He had done his spurs, and, twisting his mustache with both hands, horizontally, he contemplated her from the height of his long legs with a visible appreciation of her outward appearance. The consciousness of being thus contemplated pleased Mrs. Gould." ***** "Mrs. Gould, frowning, surveyed him from head to foot. With his riding breeches, leather leggings,...a Norfolk coat of gray flannel, and those great flaming mustaches, he suggested an officer of cavalry turned gentleman farmer. This combination was gratifying to Mrs. Gould's tastes...." Re: John the Baptist I must not have phrased my inquiry correctly. I was just wondering if anyone noticed anything about Nostromo (film or book) to suggest a parallel to the life of John the Baptist. All I know is that John the Baptist was a martyr; he gave his life for Jesus. However, I see nothing of a martyr in the actions of Nostromo. The Viola family continue to call him Gian Battistia throughout. Do they think he is a martyr to the European powers in charge? Or is it meant to be ironic. Nostromo's last name is Fi anza, which means fidelity or loyalty. However, Nostromo is not loyal really to anyone--not even himself. He betrays his good name. Nostromo betrays not only Charles and Captain Michell, but nore importantly the Viola family. So, if this explanation helps, does anyone see a tie-in? If not, there's a Catholic church a block away--and the Cardinal's residence is about 4 blocks from here. I would think some priest over there might be tickled to discuss the allegorical use of John the Baptist's name in Conrad's work!!

The Viola family continue to call him Gian Battistia throughout. That's because, notwithstanding any deliberate or coincidental allegory, as the case may be, Gian Battista - as I've been trying to point out in my faltering English all along - is supposed to represent his actual Latin American Christian (=baptismal; given; first) name, and it would be completely against his mummy's and daddy's, as well as, coincidentally, the author's wishes to call him Jose Maria or Colin, or anything else at all.

I understand your question, Karen, and I'd be interested in knowing too if Conrad chose Gian Battiste for Nostromo's Christian name intentionally. If he did, I would imagine it's meant to be ironic. Saintly, martyred, dying for his ideals... Nostromo's image appears noble and good but he is anything but that. Actually, he is more of a victim of his own image. Of course, this could all be bullsheet' too! :-)

Lovely photos, Renate. Thanks. ...he contemplated her from the height of his long legs with a visible appreciation of her outward appearance. The consciousness of being thus contemplated pleased Mrs. Gould."

I'd be interested in knowing too if Conrad chose Gian Battiste for Nostromo's Christian name intentionally. If he did, I would imagine it's meant to be ironic. Saintly, martyred, dying for his ideals... I've read a bit about Conrad and do not recall any evidence of his intentional manipulation of characters' names.

Arami on the issue of given names: yours seems a very sensible approach. If you cannot find any allegory, then probably there is none. And Renate's photographs: lovely, are they not? Oh, I must catch a viewing of those films sometime somehow!

Not that I mind, but I know I did NOT post this pic a second time - I just sat there looking at it full of admiration.....

If you cannot find any allegory, then probably there is none Perhaps the allegory is not in the name itself, but the person whose name it is. I do not know much about John the Baptist. But features of his life might be similar to Nostromo's. My booknotes says that the name Gould suggests gold. Costaguana comes from Costa Rica and guano (manure) My notes , (written by Martin Seymour-Smith( who died on July 1st, a famous British poet and scholar,) do not mention Gian Batista . One can say...Conrad was pretty tricky!!

I do not know much about John the Baptist. But features of his life might be similar to Nostromo's. One thing is certain: John the Baptist didn't steal a load of silver... The tragedy of Nostromo is his fall as an honest man. How can we talk about a parallel with a Biblical martyr?

John the Baptist didn't steal a load of silver That's for sure. But Nostromo started out as an idealist...an honest man....faithful to his country and his friends. Only at the end was he corrupted. BTW this book was originally serialized in a weekly magazine: "T.P.'s Weekly".

I've read a bit about Conrad and do not recall any evidence of his intentional manipulation of characters' names. I seem to recall the adage 'There is always a first time for everything'. John The Baptist as I remember the story (though pathetically bad). Growing up Catholic and all, he became a scapegoat for Jesus. In order for Jesus to spread his word and work, someone had to be sacrificed and as John The Baptist was the closest friend (in a manner of speaking), was the most logical person. Gian Battista(sp) was sacrificed due to love at the end.

John the Baptist was an older cousin of Jesus, born when his parents were already too old to have children.An angel told Zachary that his wife would bear him a son, and that the child should be named John. Zachary was incredulous and for that punished by becoming dumb. When the baby was in fact born, his wife asked what name should he be given. Zachary wrote "John" and was then given back speech. In adult life John became a famous prophet. He said that the Messiah was coming soon to Israel. He poured water over people's heads to symbolically cleanse them of their sins. When Jesus grew up, he visited John and asked to be baptised. John, however, hailed him as the Messiah and said that it was he, Jesus, who should cleanse him, John. In the end he let himself be convinced to baptise Jesus. After that we only hear about him because King Herod's wife bore him some grudge and when the king promised his daughter Salome anything she wanted after she danced especially well, Salome, by her mother's wish, asked for John's head, and so the baptist was beheaded. I hope this helps clear things.

Since I promised Evelyn that I would summarize the article she sent me, here goes: "An Epic Fight for Survival" by Nicholas Hellen describes the 10-year effort involved to film Nostromo. When the BBC originally considered it in the mid-1980s, "costume drama was at a low ebb It concluded that the subject was simply too big." David Lean then became interested in making a big-screen version, but six weeks prior to shooting in 1991, Lean died, and his scriptwriter said: "There seems little likelihood that anyone will be tempted to invest $30m in a story whose essential point is that mo ey is the root of all evil." When the BBC revisited it in the 1990s, the focus was on "frock flicks" or "adaptations of novels with romantic story lines that can be given a contemporary edge by accentuating their insights into the battle between the sexes. Jane Austen and the Bront�s are apparently required reading in the BBC drama department." Nostromo did not fall into this category as "the story is complicated and what love interest there is is fraught with compromise and disillusionment. The relationship between the English c aracters, Gould and his wife, Emilia, offers little emotional depth." Another perceived deterrent to ratings success in Britain was that the title characters had to be played by an Italian. The novel, although considered by Conrad to his "greatest and most difficult achievement," was not well-received at the time, and Conrad today is perhaps the least read great novelist in Britain. While compared to War and Peace, "Conrad's novel is ironic and stark where Tolstoy's is triumphal and heroic." When he finished it, Conrad wrote: "I've finished. There's no elation. No relief even." The TLS declared it "an artistic mistake." Conrad noted that the readers of the magazine serialisation compla ned "of so much space being taken by utterly unreadable stuff." In 1992, Fernando Ghia approached Michael Wearing, a BBC producer, who put his reputation behind the project. He "was attracted by the epic sweep of the book and saw it as fundamentally different to Rhodes. 'Rhodes was a drama documentary; this is an allegorical novel....It is one of those stories showing elements of the human condition on a grand scale.'" Financing turned the project into a "Europudding - a joint venture with producers divided by language and culture....Nostromo was too big for the BBC to tackle on its own." The funding diversity shows in the casting, and "British viewers will notice the compromises. Italian actor speaks to Italian actress in heavily accented English....Nostromo is taken by the Italian actor, Claudio Amendola, and Decoud by a French-Canadian, Lothaire Bluteau. The Goulds are played by Colin Firth and Serena Scott Thomas, with Albert Finney appearing as the disillusioned, alcoholic Dr. Monygham. As Darcy in Pride and Prejudice, Firth made millions swoon. But the role of Gould calls for an unattractive beard and the silver mine as his only true passion, if also the setting for a loveless coupling with his wife. The only romance involving Firth took place off-screen. During filming he split with Jennifer Ehle, his co-star in Pride and Prejudice, and fell in love with Livia Giuggioli, an Italian production assistant." After four months, the difficulties associated with the location and climate came to a climax as the director Alastair Reid had to be hospitalized "after losing consciousness. For months he had spurred himself on with heavy doses of energy-giving glucose. His body had finally refused to cooperate." On one night's shoot, Serena Scott Thomas called the hospital for direction. "The tension was palpable. Michael Wearing...admits now that at that point he began to fear the �10 production might have to be bandoned....Filming was only eight days from completion, but a stoppage could wreck a venture that had already taken 10 years to reach this stage. Reid took the call, and for two days resumed command from his sick bed." "The production seemed to be cursed by bad luck from the start. Ghia thought he had come forearmed against disasters by securing the personal blessing of the president of Colombia and being able to enlist 15,000 Arhuaco Indians as extras." Despite this, there were pay disputes, noisy political demonstrations, set construction disasters and bad publicity over environmental issues (destruction of some rainforest on the edge of Cartage�a's botanical gardens). There were also fears of sabotage by disgruntl d crew. The weather was of course a major factor. "Unwelcome breaks caused by the frequent downpours became routine....The heat and humidity were overpowering. A video diary kept by Reid shows Firth struggling into his period costume, saying: 'You have to have a masochistic delight in sweating and suffering. The Brits love this stuff more than anybody. It is the Italians and the Spanish who complain about it.'" "Unsurprisingly, a dark humour gripped the film-makers. In the claustrophobic jungle, the father of Charles Gould is murdered with an axe by the Indian slaves. The victim is played by Wearing. In a later scene, a group of men were required to be executed by a firing squad. Reid gleefully lined up almost the entire production team." Hellen's own review: "If audiences can survive the second and weakest of the four 90-minute episodes, it should prove a hit....Nostromo not only looks good, the story is well paced and the performances much stronger. Finney is particularly fine, and, while Firth seems muted as a man in the grip of an obsession, Scott Thomas makes much of what could have been a slight role." According to the article, Lean's collaborators had resurrected plans to make a feature film version that would be directed by Hugh Hudson. The producer, Serge Silberman, expected to began shooting within a year.

Well done, Karen! There was also another quite long article about Nostromo in the Sunday Observer. It was a favourable article, praising the intrinsic value of the project and the performances, but stating that its worth would not be reflected in the viewing figures....ie it was unlikely to be popular viewing. Funnily enough, I saw a comment by Michael Wearing just the other day ...he said that a drama about the impact of industrialisation in the 19th century on a Third World country just wouldn't have mass appeal, unlike P&P (for which he was also Exec. Producer) which was all about gender politics.

Thank you, Karen. Only you could have given us such an interesting and accurate summary of a v. long article. a feature film version that would be directed by Hugh Hudson. My thought when I read this was: If BBC with six hours couldn't make the book's plot logical and seemless.....can you imagine what a movie in two hours will do!!

seemless., pl. correct to: seamless

John The Baptist.... a scapegoat for Jesus... someone had to be sacrificed... Gian Battista(sp) was sacrificed due to love at the end. You're so right - this is a pathetically inadequate, inappropriate and completely wrong comparison.

Ah yes, Arami, but my 7 year old daughter beat you to the quick:) She explained all to me that John the Baptist was indeed the cousin of Jesus, Elizabeth being his mother, who was 40 when she had him. I went to Public School whereas my daughter is receiving a Catholic education:) As for inappropriate, not nearly as some of what you wrote.

As for inappropriate, not nearly as some of what you wrote. Now, now - let's not get personal. You don't really want to make me angry, do you? Well, then - back to the film discussion, there's a good girl :-)

You don't really want to make me angry, do you? Haven't quite decided yet. But getting your ire up is indeed fun;) Hee hee.

Well, then - back to the film discussion I'm sorry. Have you been a participant in this film discussion?

Hee hee;)

(Laura) She explained all to me that John the Baptist was indeed the cousin of Jesus, Elizabeth being his mother, who was 40 when she had him. Oh. Lets see.... If Elisabeth was the mother of John the Baptist Fitzwilliam Darcy must be his father! And if his sons' cousin was Jesus, the latter must have been the lost brother of either Fitzwilliam Darcy or his wife Elisabeth. I knew it! I knew it!!! Oh, had I but more time I would write the story of John Baptist Fitzwilliam Darcy, who would also be the grandson of Lady Catherine, and somehow related to the likes of Mr. Collins and George Wickham, unfortunately. ;-P

LMAO!

I'm sorry. Have you been a participant in this film discussion? I see you're really overstretching your wits to provoke a confrontation :-)

(Renate) Oh, had I but more time I would write the story of John Baptist Fitzwilliam Darcy, who would also be the grandson of Lady Catherine, :-S

Renate, LOL!! :-D

By George, I think she's got it;)

John the Baptist didn't steal a load of silver. Allegory: 1(a) the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human conduct or experience, (b) an instance of such expression. 2. a symbolic representation. The tragedy of Nostromo is his fall as an honest man. Nostromo is neither honest nor dishonest. He is a "natural" man as is discussed in most of the lit crit. He has no ideals; he is amoral. He exists for himself, his good name, his vanity. There is no good or bad, honest or dishonest in his fundamental world. He just *is.* His fall is most often described as the original Fall of Man, i.e., Adam's fall. He awakens to the "knowledge of good and evil that is said to have corrupted the first man in Eden....Gould is not God--or the devil--dealing out the choice, or tempting the man. He is Nostromo's double as well as the initiator of his fall. That is to say, Gould's corruption is the model for Nostromo's, and Gould himself is an Adam, disturbing creation in the 'paradise of snakes' where the mine slept until he resolved to use it for human salvation. Evil (one cannot tell about good, since there's very little of it in the novel) is exterior and is not, even, moral. The evil is the silver." (Hay, pp.182-3) How can we talk about a parallel with a Biblical martyr? By the mere fact that Conrad gave his title character that name. Naming characters is not a haphazard exercise for some authors. Conrad borrowed extensively from several sources for the names of most of his major and minor characters, situations and scenery. They are: Edward B. Eastwick's Venezuela (1868), which was in Conrad's library when he died; G.F. Masterman's Seven Eventful Years in Paraguay(1870); and S. Perez Triana's Down the Orinoco(1902). In The Political Novels of Joseph Conrad by Eloise Knapp Hay, which I have quoted above, the real sources of the characters' names are discussed at some length. Another author, Albert J. Guerard, in Conrad the Novelist notes how Conrad subtly juxtaposes the figure of Charles Gould on horseback and the equestrian statue of Charles IV of Spain. I believe he chose John the Baptist's name in the same way as he chose the last name of Fidanza. Both are literary devices and he uses them symbolically and ironically. Conrad, while an avowed atheist, was respectful of his upbringing. He did not use the name in an irreverent way. In the same way, I hope no one will take offense at my own conclusions because no disrespect is intended. John the Baptist is an agent in the process of saving souls. When Nostromo assumes his real name, he has saved the mine and lost his own soul. After burying the silver on the island, he comes to the realization that he has been betrayed by the Europeans and that both Giorgio and Teresa were right. "The decision is based on a moral bargain: he has bought the treasure with his own soul, forfeited when he betrayed Decoud and Teresa to save it." (Hay, p.205) According to Conrad: "Nostromo had lost his peace; the genuineness of all his qualities was destroyed. He felt it himself, and often cursed the silver of San Tom�. His courage, his magnificence, his leisure, his work, everything was as before, only everything was a sham." He is described later as "the man whose soul was dead within him." When material interests are put before humanity, all have lost their souls: Gould, Decoud and now Nostromo. At the end, I think there is some ambiguity whether his a tempt at repentance is successful. But then again, Nostromo may be no different than Moby Dick (a fish story) or Grapes of Wrath (about migrant workers) or East of Eden (about lettuce). Like Heide said earlier, this could all be bullsheet! ;-) wits overstretched No, just my patience.

Perhaps we can move on to subject on which there can be no disagreement. Could they have picked an uglier woman to play Antonia? ;-)

Antonia should have been beautiful...not well cast, I'm afraid. She was modeled on Conrad's first love. I think we should touch on some lighter things! Question, what colour is Colin's hair, really? In some shots he looked almost blonde, but when kissing Emilia's hand at the harbourside ("God willing, never without you!) his hair looks reddish. Ditto in the scene when he and Emilia meet the new President in the presidential palace after the political upheaval. Highlights brought out by the sun? And he always looks so clean, almost schoolboyish......particularly in that white Eton collar. I thnk I prefer him slightly rumpled!

Allegory: ...the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions... ...a symbolic representation. And I still don't see what John the Baptist has to do with it. By the mere fact that Conrad gave his title character that name. I would really need a better proof than that. wits overstretched No, just my patience.,/I. Right again - the former just doesn't come into this...

Out, damned italics.

Out, damned italics.

(Karen)By the mere fact that Conrad gave his title character that name. (Arami)I would really need a better proof than that. Well tonight I will have a seance and invite Conrad himself to explain all. I will give him the URL to this damn board and have him personalize it just for you Arami. Don't you think that is enough information, how much research must one do to satisfy you. Why don't you do the research?

Thank you Karen... For a scholarly treatise. I would have to go to a university library to get such. Your rural friend is grateful. (Bethan) Re; color of CF's hair. Highlights?? I think so. Very cool. I thnk I prefer him slightly rumpled! I keep telling ya' that rumpled baggy, beige linen suit.!!!!

Gould's hair is supposed to be red, so maybe they were going for a strawberry blonde look?

Joseph Conrad about Nostromo

...Nostromo's corruption... Deprived of reputation, Nostromo seeks compensation in wealth... Like Gould, Nostromo pins his faith on materialism in order to compensate for his loss of prestige... The central tragedy of "Nostromo" is incompatibility of material interests and moral principles... (from "Joseph Conrad, A Biography" by Jeffrey Meyers)

I read both Hay's and Conrad's texts cited above and find them complementary to each other. A fitting conclusion to the debate. I did find Conrad's reference to "the beautiful Antonia" amusing. She would be the only reason he would return to (fictional) Sulaco. In your dreams, Joe. (Ann) Gould's hair is supposed to be red, so maybe they were going for a strawberry blonde look? Do you think they colored his hair for this role too? I thought he had some reddish tint to his hair in other movies- Fever Pitch comes to mind so I always assumed his hair color in Nostromo was authentic, just lightened a bit by the sun.

I thought he had some reddish tint to his hair in other movies- Fever Pitch comes to mind so I always assumed his hair color in Nostromo was authentic, The dark brown hair with reddish tint in FP looked like a cheap dye job to me.

Test Test test test

Are the italics done now? *sigh*

I thought he had some reddish tint to his hair in other movies- Fever Pitch comes to mind so I always assumed his hair color in Nostromo was authentic, The dark brown hair with reddish tint in FP looked like a cheap dye job to me. Evelyn I think his hair does have auburn tints, brought out by sun or strong arc lights. Nostromo is the authentic colouring, I believe. Strongly agree with you about FP! I suppose if you make a movie for $2.5 million you have to economise, but not on his hair! Dyed black hair can have a metallic red glint in strong lighting (as on a film set). The Makeup people (person?) should have avoided this. I doubt if CF would have noticed!

(Bethan) I must admit to being rather transfixed by the scene where he strides (and I really mean STRIDES)...after Dr. Monygham...Or perhaps it's just those oh so keen eyes of mine again!!! And your *oh so keen eyes* have been focused on what is truly important! I had referred that little sighting over to our MIA contour checker when I received my tape, but never got a confirmation. Good catch. Keep those eagle eyes alert. ;-) (Ann) Gould's hair is supposed to be red, so maybe they were going for a strawberry blonde look? (Heide) I thought he had some reddish tint to his hair in other movies- Fever Pitch comes to mind so I always assumed his hair color in Nostromo was authentic, just lightened a bit by the sun. Didn't one of the interviews call his hair "ginger" colored? Really makes you wonder what color his hair is. Bethan: I know how you collect articles, etc. I can e-mail the unabridged text of The Times article that Evelyn sent me if you wish.

And your *oh so keen eyes* have been focused on what is truly important! (Karen) Gives new meaning to the expression "hanging loose"!! :-) Thanks for the offer of the Nostromo article, Karen. But I checked my archives and it is actually one that I'd kept. I remembered reading it but wasn't sure if I'd cut it out.

(Karen) Really makes you wonder what color his hair is. Has anyone ever actually seen him in an au naturel state (and no, I don't mean in the buff ;-)).

Another Country, Dutch Girls, A Month In The Country - natural hair colour. Master Of The Moor - slightly questionable, but sometimes the film or video tape quality (contrast) may alter colours. Playmaker, The Hour Of The Pig (The Advocate) - the buff.

I always thought he hair was brown, sort of a chestnut brown. Darkened for P&P and lightened with highlights for Nostromo.

I've found an interview in which he says that he used to be blonde as a child. He is now presumed light brown with fair-reddish highlights, but one can never be sure, and colour hair rinses seem temptingly easy to apply.

I think light to chestnut brown with fair-reddish highlights is a pretty accurate description! I don't think it was lightened for Nostromo, more likely naturally bleached by five months in the sun.

Ah, very true about the sun!!! And I'm glad I was right on target. This time:)

Would anyone, besides me, like to discuss Valmont.? If Cheryl would graciously consent to be at the helm. I feel this is a golden opportunity. Or have we done V. too many times.

Would love to do Valmont, particularly in view of Cheryl's most interesting comments and insight. And I've never actually discussed Valmont....it's still quite "new" to me! blonde as a child He must have have looked like little Lord Fauntleroy, blonde, curly headed and angelic!

Oooooh, little Lord Firthleroy! A Valmont discussion the umpteenth time is fine by me, now that I have found a way to avoid AB's drawl by simply watching the dubbed version :-)).

have we done V. too many times. When it comes to HIM, how many times is too many? He must have have looked like little Lord Fauntleroy, blonde, curly headed and angelic! Indeed: there is a picture of Colin as a child somewhere on FoF's main site, I believe. Or at least there used to be.

Indeed: there is a picture of Colin as a child somewhere on FoF's main site, I believe. Is that the one where he's attempting to cram a whole bun into his mouth? Very sweet (although obviously hasn't mastered the art of polite eating!) :-)

Is that the one where he's attempting to cram a whole bun into his mouth? Very sweet (although obviously hasn't mastered the art of polite eating!) :-) } I must be spending too much time around here, because my mind conjured a very different image upon reading "cram a whole bun into his mouth".

Have we EVER done a discussion on A MONTH IN THE COUNTRY? I don't recall that we have?

For 1999 Production Notes/Status Status: Announced Comments: Director Stephen Frears is near a deal to direct after Mike Newell had to leave the project because of schedule conflicts. Last Updated: 19 March 1998 Note: Since this project is categorized as being in production, the data is subject to change or could be removed completely. Directed by Stephen Frears Cast (in alphabetical order) John Cusack Written by John Cusack Nick Hornby (nov

And this involves Colin Firth how...

Sheer willpower:)

Ya never know maybe CF will have a cameo; it is in preproduction stage!

Ya never know maybe CF will have a cameo; it is in preproduction stage! Aaah...

Or John Cusack will morph into CF and then we will all be happy:)

I thought we were going to discuss either: VALMONT or A MONTH IN THE COUNTRY. Waddya' say?? No one's been at home here all week.... Now I find Nick Hornby in ????? (what is the name of the film?) :-)))))

I vote for AMITC :-)

When will we ever discuss Master of the Moor?! Or Tumbledown? :-)

(Renate) Master of the Moor?! I haven't seen it yet, baby :-(

nor have I

Nor have I

I have:) It doesn't have wide distributorship here in the States for some unknown reason. AMITC is a great movie and looking forward to discussing it!! I had a great idea didn't I:)

I have:) It doesn't have wide distributorship here in the States for some unknown reason. AMITC is a great movie and looking forward to discussing it!! I had a great idea didn't I:) I have AMITC. It is "Master of the Moor" most of us have not seen. You have, Laura???

I've seen Master of the Moor, yes!!! about two years ago right around the time I saw Lost Empires:) Sorry, that was during my love affair w/ dear boy. I haven't seen The Widowing of Mrs. Holroyd. Where he plays a drunk (tho I've heard not a good one either:)) Master of the Moor is a Ruth Rendell/Barbara Vine mystery that leaves one quite flat at the ending. He's heavier in this role; face is a little bit more puffed out. One good thing the girl who played his wife was ugly:) hee hee. Hated that stringy long hair!!

Laura : Master of the Moor...flat ending....fat face...ugly wife What a recommendation!! AMITC I had a great idea didn't I:) You know, Laura...I really admire your humility :-) I'm for AMITC

AMITC or Tumbledown would be fine with me. Make it TD. I feel my shoulder twitching. ;-)

Laura : Master of the Moor...flat ending....fat face...ugly wife What a recommendation!! Each to her own taste. It's actually my favourite in terms of his appearance...I prefer the slightly heavier look . I guess that was his inbetween relationships period, probably he was living on his own and not as happy as he is now. But "fat"......NO! And I liked The Widowing of Mrs Holroyd. The BBC Performance series was intended to reflect stage performances....single sets and limited action as you would see in the theatre. The style of acting therefore differs. All the actors in the series were well known actors from the theatre rather than TV. AMITC is fine by me.

Re: Master of the Moor and The Widowing...: Bethan...each to her own taste, Know what you mean...I like Joe Prince ....in FF

(Laura) Master of the Moor is a Ruth Rendell/Barbara Vine mystery that leaves one quite flat at the ending. He's heavier in this role; face is a little bit more puffed out. One good thing the girl who played his wife was ugly:) hee hee. Hated that stringy long hair!! Laura, it is not the first time that our tastes go into different directions, so you will not be surprised that I disagree with you again. All what he wears, the wide shirts, pullover and parka, even his hearcut seem designed to make him look heavier, and physically strong. (.... and then act against it...) Perhaps also the very economical use of make up - if there was any make up at all. - I found Emma Croft, the actress who played Lynn, very creditable as a pretty young woman (but I agree that her uneven skin was brutally exposed by the light). She was *not* pretty in the way we usually get to see actresses in films, with perfect hair and skin and make up in every situation, but pretty in the way we see someone in real life, in a rural surrounding. And Lynn Whalby wasn't supposed to wear make up, anyway. In the first scene her hair was stringy, yes, perhaps just a bad hair day, perhaps? :-). But no kidding, I would not be surprised to find out it was done purposely, to emphasize the change in her appearance later on. The light of the whole production is everything but flattering, it reveals, displays mercyless every spot, scar and skin imperfections of the actors, and there are many. But it gave the production a kind of very realistic, almost "documentary" look. Fascinating. I am afraid I will have to wait a long time until I find a movie that is as rich in so many aspects as this one. On this movie it all came together, apparently everybody did a great job (other than, f.e. P&P and FP, which have irritating flaws des ite all their excellence): Great script, very good characterisation, intelligent dialogues, dialogues which don't insult the thinking brain, great photography, terrific use of music, excellent settings, gorgeous if dark scenery. Excellent performances by everybody. Apparently very efficient director. It is a dark, dramatic and sad story, with a perfect ensemble of actors, would like to mention in particular George Costigan, his Inspector Manciple was just terrific. I would give MOTM five out of five stars any time. First time I watched it I was a bit doubtful, I found it too "mysterious" :-), i.e. too many hints, too many distracting details, too many loose ends, but I have changed my mind very soon. Since then I have watched it almost as often as P&P, and I find something new and amazing in there eve y time. What a perfect production, and what an honour and luck for an actor to be part of it. What a pity hardly anyone gets to see it outside the UK. "What a waste. What a waste!" Can you guess I am excessively fond of MOTM? :-) But not of "Mrs. Holroyd".

Arami, I like your review of MOTM. I watch for it every time a Ruth Rendell mystery is on cable, but it never is the correct one! Sounds very interesting! I should like to see it someday! Yes, I can tell it is one of your favorites!

Stephanie, though Arami and I have a lot in common, we are not identical. ;-)) How you can tell: she knows much more four-syllable words (and, perhaps, four-letter words, too), and her English is in general, eh, well, more British, - so I take it as a compliment that you take me for her. ;-) Talking of vocabulary, please forgive my repetitions, and if I wasn't clear in some points. I was very tired when I finished the post.

Sorry, dear friends. Not my day today I'm afraid .... Nan, would you please remove this garbage.... thanks a lot.

I have copied Bethan's post from #98, for continuation: Bethan wrote: Re MOM I would say that it was shot without makeup, sometimes in less than flattering light and often in the fullest close up possible. And it's still my favourite, for "looks"! And I agree about the "heavy" look....he was often wearing a shirt, jumper, corduroy jacket and a bulky unfashionable anorak. I'm surprised he managed to stride across those moors with such alacrity!

I would say that it was shot ..(snip)..... and often in the fullest close up possible. ;-)! That's perhaps why we love it so much, because that is as near as we ever will get to him! And it's still my favourite, for "looks"! Agreed. He looks neither gorgeous, nor stunning or beautiful in the Darcy way in this one, but very real, and very cuddly :-).

Renata, Ooops. I'm sorry. I'll be more careful next time.

Master of the Moor!! I have a raging headache to remember it by. I saw it last night for the first time and since I always watch a new Colin film with a bottle of wine, let's just say next time I ought to eat some food too. How did it end? No, just kidding, although I was a bit confused and probably will need several viewings to clear it up. As for looks, yum yum yum. Especially the outdoor shots on the moors. How come I can't sit outside in the middle of nowhere and have a gorgeous, rugged, masculine nature boy with windblown hair and a beautiful smile come upon me? As for next movie choice, I am up for anything. Do enough of us have Tumbledown? Another non-controversial film ;-)

very real, and very cuddly :-) Especially with that shirt hanging out! Definitely needs a tuck in! And I agree about the "real" look!

Definitely needs a tuck in! Oh, yes, please, let me tuck it in! :-d... (Heide) Master of the Moor!! I always watch a new Colin film with a bottle of wine.... Mercy, woman! With MOTM being only 2 hours long, how did you survive P&P and Nostromo?! How many gallons did you need, and how many aspirin? ;-)) I saw it last night for the first time ......(snip)...... I was a bit confused and probably will need several viewings to clear it up. Do it, and give us full report, please!