(Sofie) But this is something I knew nothing of as I lifted the loop and set off across the meadow. Is he looking back with regret? or is he just remembering a notable time in his life? The latter.The whole book is a flashback. So he is remembering when he left with all his various pieces of luggage and walked away.

Testing ..I put an end tag.Let's see if this works

I read the Cinematic Discourse on FOF on AMITC and it is v. scholarly. However, there seems to be a difference of opinion on whether Piers is the mural's artist. After Tom and Moon dig in the pit---find the stone coffin and shroud, and peak in... Moon says: ..."let's put the chain back and leave him. But first we'll climb your ladder and have a look at his face before it fell off." Tom say:"Do you know , until that moment, it hadn't occurred to me that this bundle of bones was my falling man." Doesn't Tom say earlier that the artist had fallen...and someone else had painted his face in? This author is pretty tricky...makes you work for the plot.

Tom says most likely that the apprentice finished the mural.

Do these do you, Evelyn :-)

Yes,....thanks Nan. The top one is in the belfry with the shirtand suspenders (sorry, braces) that Heide likes. The bottom one is at the beginning coming in from the rain after checking the gutters...can't you hear that pitiful stammer. :-)

correction: stammer :-(

(Evelyn) The top one is in the belfry with the shirtand suspenders (sorry, braces) that Heide likes. Well, Heide's got damned good taste! :-) (Evelyn) can't you hear that pitiful stammer I know, poor baby :-( Dontcha just wanna kiss it and make it all better? ;-p

I really enjoyed everyone's take on AMITC. Loved the scenes from the book which helped me to understand the characters further. CF does seem to give Tom this quality that makes you want to "make it all better." When he enters the belfry for the first time I just want to help him take off those damp clothes make him a cup of hot tea and tuck him in. Of course I'm speaking of my desire to nurture his poor wounded soul. I would go to any lengths to divert him from his painful memories of the war. Question to those who read the book. What was the purpose of Moon being a homosexual? Nan, not to be a bother but, while you're snapping, would love one of him shaving. Re: different topic...I came across a web sight that listed FP with a fall 98 release date for N.Y. and L.A. I assume that it is a theatrical release, not video.

(nan11) Dontcha just wanna kiss it and make it all better? (sofie)...you want to "make it all better."...help him take off those damp clothes...tuck him in...my desire......any lengths to...him And the weird thing is, you think (I think) (one thinks) you really can! With some screen stammerers (like Brad Dourif in "Cuckoo's Nest"), you get the idea that it's hard wired, that it's been with them forever, it's a part of them. But with CF's you think you can soothe it, the tension, the conflict--right on the money. And like Heide, I didn�t really get the first time through that it was from the war. Maybe the book made this clearer.

(Sofie) Re: different topic...FP with a fall 98 release date for N.Y. and L.A. I assume that it is a theatrical release, not video. Yes, theatrical release. It opened in Canada during World Cup. On his book tour, Nick Hornby mentioned it would be released later in the year in the US in a limited number of cities. I hope it's more than NYC and LA. Then, release on video here is next logical step????? :-D Have picked up AMITC from the library (just yesterday) and noticed publisher is local. Will give them a call tomorrow. (Telephone number/address printed on book are no longer good. They've moved.)

(Sofie) Question to those who read the book. What was the purpose of Moon being a homosexual? I didn't find anything explicit in the book. (But what is..in this book!) Moon's psychological injuries, IMO are worse than Tom's . Also he had shrapnel in his leg which is why one saw him late at night trying to straighten it out). Does anyone have an insight on Moon's homosexuality and it's place in the story. Tom's physical twitches and stammer subside..And while he leaves sadly..still one gets the feeling that he isn't the lonely pitiful person who arrived in the beginning of the summer. So, ...a Question to ponder.... What heals Tom.....restoring the mural? Alice?, the children? the pastoral countryside? ...friendship...love...art? Do you think that as he restored the mural it became a metaphor for his own healing...or is the mural a venue through which he healed . (Am I making sense?) Let's hear from everybody out there. PS. Natasha Richardson was featured this week in Parade and didn't even mention AMITC as one of her films. Boo, Hiss on her!

Moon's homosexuality?.... Perhaps his name gives us a clue. Moon--crescent--Muslim. I think the name is meant to draw a parallel between Moon and the Muslim Piers. Where Piers returned from the Crusades a converted Muslim, and became an outcast in his Oxgoodby--and permanently remained one, Moon is also a permanent outcast in his society because of his homosexuality. Neither could convert to a more socially acceptable way of life. Perhaps this is also why Moon remains more damaged by the war and doesn't find the cure that Birkin does. Birkin could 'convert' himself back, but Moon, like Piers, must accept the way he is.

PS. Natasha Richardson was featured this week in Parade and didn't even mention AMITC as one of her films. CF's co-stars often seem to find their way to mega-stardom......Catherine Zeta Jones, Kristin Scott Thomas, Minnie Driver, to name a few. (Evelyn, I'm sure JE will be up there soon!)

Ann, I find your connection of Moon....crescent....Muslim/Piers...both outcasts of society....very plausible. The puzzle coming together slowly. Catherine Zeta-Jones....when did she co-star with Colin? She is a stunner alright. I bet none of the" dolls" in TA make it. Sheeesh. I think JE is inching along. Like CF, I see lots of roles I would have liked to see her in. She admits at having been disappointed that she didn't get some roles.

AMITC Book Update: I called the publisher this morning and they said it had been out of print for quite a while. Usually, they keep some around, but there had been a number of requests recently. She went to check and there weren't any on the shelves. She said that periodically some are returned but not in good condition. I asked about reprinting the book and she said that it cannot be because of an agreement with the author. She took my name and number and will call me if any show up. She said the book apparently had *cult* following. Imagine that!! ;-D

Catherine Zeta-Jones....when did she co-star with Colin? In the BBC production "Out of the Blue" which I haven't seen. I think she's been based in LA for a few years. Like CF, I see lots of roles I would have liked to see her in. She admits at having been disappointed that she didn't get some roles. I think that after Lizzie and Darcy (and all the other good work they'd done before) neither has achieved the recognition they deserve...or the major breakthrough roles(in terms of worldwide movie success). But it will happen, I'm positive! Both seem quite happy to be Europe-based, rather than US, so maybe that determines the kind of work they're offered. AMITC .....hang on to your copies! Collector's items...I told you!

(Bethan) the kind of work they're offered. Somehow no one seems to consider the kind of work they choose to accept... that also makes a lot of difference. Michele Pffeifer may feel comfortable as Catwoman (?), Jack Nicholson as Joker, etc., but that's not the type of roles Colin would aspire to... Not yet, anyway.

Somehow no one seems to consider the kind of work they choose to accept Very true. I actually don't want to see CF in a huge blockbuster type of movie (I have a feeling that The Avengers may prove a mistaken choice for RF), but these are the movies which, unfortunately, get all the promotion. It's a bit of a Catch 22 situation really.

(Bethan) I actually don't want to see CF in a huge blockbuster type of movie Why not, Bethan? Quality and blockbuster are not always in opposition. I don't think he'd turn down a role in a film that had blockbuster written all over it. Doubt that would be part of the criteria he'd use in choosing a role but one can only presume.

Back to AMITC..... I did some research over the weekend... At the end Old Mr. Birkin ( I figured he must have been 85 yrs old when he returns in the film) signs off Stocken, Prestigne September, 1978 The place didn't sound like England...but I found it in E. Wales. nr. the border....North of Hereford,. Ripon ( where they went to purchase the organ...Alice apples...Sgt Milburn tells about Moon) is in the middle of the moors NW of York. Then I found on the map a town, at the tip of England almost touching N. Wales , called Birkenhead coincidental....I wonder?

Heide, I agree with you. The shame about blockbusters are that it is all about special effects nowadays - often the script is $hit, the actors don't act (because they don't need to with all that extra help), and everyone in it is a millionaire (which I resent!). I like actors who go for the scripts they like, not the scripts that are going to bring them thirty million instead of three million. It shows that they still care more for their art than for money.

Re: Blockbusters. Just try and have an interesting discussion about the symbolism in Titanic. Although to be honest, I rarely think of metaphores when I am focusing on C.F.

Can't say I do either. But a good script and good acting is important to me - otherwise I can't be persuaded to sit still for two hours.

But a good script and good acting is important to me - otherwise I can't be persuaded to sit still for two hours. Or pay $$$ for it. But not all blockbusters are created equal....some have good storylines and acting. IMO Titanic was terrific. And so is the current; Saving Private Ryan. the scripts that are going to bring them thirty million instead of three million. I'd go for the thirty:-)

Nan...Sofie requested a pic of Tom Birken shaving outside in AMITC. Can we impose on you one more time? Thanks

I wouldn't - I'd be $hit scared of that much money. But my sister told me Saving Private Ryan is an oscar winner in her book, so I'll go see it once it comes to Switzerland.

(Riette) I'd be $hit scared of that much money. I think you'd get confidence in yourself real fast!! BTW went to your Art Conference. Very cool. Colorful (no pun) too. Congrats...you and Terry have a great site goin'.

....so I'll go see it once it comes to Switzerland. Gruezi wohl! Segged Sie, wie lebbed Sie, wie geihts dann Ihrem Maa..... :-). I just peeped in to Arts, and Nan, will you ever forgive me to complain about the Drool background being too strong? Riette, it's just a joke, I really like what I have seen, and will come back (as soon as I have dimmed down my colour settings - no, no, Riette, kidding again! The sunglasses will do :-D)

(Evelyn) However, there seems to be a difference of opinion on whether Piers is the mural's artist. Finished the book and my take on it is that Piers and the muralalist are not one and the same. Tom is marveling throughout on the level of detail the muralist has used, especially on the falling man with the crescent on his forehead. He considers this unknown artist to be decades ahead of Brugheuel because of the detail used. Tom does believe that real people were used to populate the mural. So it stands to reason that the artist chose to use Piers, a Muslin convert, who had recently been discovered a d excommunicated as the model for that character. Doesn't Tom say earlier that the artist had fallen...and someone else had painted his face in? Tom concludes that the artist fell from the scaffold but it was other areas of the mural that were done by his apprentices...not the falling man. What heals Tom.....restoring the mural? Alice?, the children? the pastoral countryside? ...friendship...love...art? Do you think that as he restored the mural it became a metaphor for his own healing...or is the mural a venue through which he healed. Have conclued that it was Oxgodby because it brought together everything that he needed to return to the living. In Oxgodby, he finds what may be the greatest medieval mural of them all and he rediscovers Art and his own abilities not as just someone who cleans up after artists. In Oxgodby, he meets Alice and he rediscovers Beauty and Love. In Oxgodby, he meets Moon, with whom he can face the horrors of the war with someone with shared memories. In Oxgodby, he meets the Ellerbecks, primarily Kathy, who befriend him and show him the other side of religion, not the establishment sort, that didn't comfort him in the foxholes when he called out to that God. Kathy Ellerbeck is a little more even. She's a little Tom. Perhaps, that's why he calls her his "kindred spirit." "We understood each other perfectly from the moment she flung open the door." Moon's homosexuality?.... (Ann) Moon is also a permanent outcast in hissociety because of his homosexuality. Neither could convert to a more socially acceptable way of life. I think the movie and the book deal with Moon's homosexuality differently. I need to go rewatch that part in the cafe in Ripon where Tom hears about Moon, but the impression I got was that Sergeant Milburn was totally disgusted with Moon. In the book, he is sympathetic to what happened to Moon. He laughts and expresses thoughts that perhaps the powers that be made an example of Moon. "They really crucified him. 'Corruption of young men'...Dishonour of the king's commission....' that sort of balls. His MC made it worse. Can't understand that." I think Moon's crime was that he was found out. Homosexuality was always around, but was not supposed to be in the open. Like AC or Wilde or a zillion other films.

( Karen) Tom concludes that the artist fell from the scaffold but it was other areas of the mural that were done by his apprentices...not the falling man. Thanks Karen for clearing up the mystery.Your insight makes more sense. Surely, a Muslim would not have painted a religious mural. And Oxgodby with all its "ingredients" is a logical healing agent for his condition. Anybody else have any different takes on this.?

(Evelyn) Nan...Sofie requested a pic of Tom Birken shaving outside in AMITC. Yes, I know, honey. I'm afraid I'm eyeball-deep at the moment. I'm on tape 5 of P&P2. Yes, you heard me right. I'm Snappin' everything worth Snappin'--yes, honey�Jennifer, too ;-) I'll certainly try to get to it...hate to disappoint a fellow drooler. (Evelyn) IMO Titanic was terrific. Overall, I liked it but by the beginning of the third hour all I could think of was "okay, sink already!" ;-p Let's face it--Titanic's financial success had more to do with Leo than the film itself. Every girl under the age of 18 saw it 4 or 5 times each. Having several obsessions myself, I certainly understand the impulse, but I don't share it. I thought the whole love story was the weak link...because Leo's just too young for me. (Evelyn) And so is the current; Saving Private Ryan. Oh, I won't see that in a theatre. I'm a horrible weeper and could never see that in public. I'm going to have to do the same thing I do with all Spielberg films...wait for the video, turn out the lights, get a big box of Kleenex and sob until I feel like my head's going to explode ;-O (Renate) Gruezi wohl! Segged Sie, wie lebbed Sie, wie geihts dann Ihrem Maa..... :-). Geez, woman! How many languages do you speak?! (Riette) I just peeped in to Arts, and Nan, will you ever forgive me to complain about the Drool background being too strong? I was waiting for an apology, missy ;-p (Renate) Riette, it's just a joke, I really like what I have seen, and will come back (as soon as I have dimmed down my colour settings - no, no, Riette, kidding again! The sunglasses will do :-D) Riette, you must not take Renate seriously. She is notoriously tongue-in-cheek (I love this about her, btw) ;-) Hint: You can tell she's in a playful mood by the number of emoticons she uses... Actually, I really like the way the Art Conference "feels" (if that makes sense). It's got a creative, festive, funky atmosphere...but I know what you mean about the text. I don't think it's the color as much as the stripes being horizontal--sometimes cuts through the center of the text. Hate to see it changed, though�I kinda like the flavor :-)

Evelyn, just wanted to say, great job bit of research locating those places on the map. Did you happen to find Oxgodby perchance? ;-D BTW, if you turn your monitor to the left about 10 degrees the italics go away.

(Nan)Oh, I won't see that in a theatre. I'm a horrible weeper and could never see that in public. I'm going to have to do the same thing I do with all Spielberg films...wait for the video, turn out the lights, get a big box of Kleenex and sob until I feel like my head's going to explode ;-O And you didn't cry in TEP??? I sob every time I see the movie. I cry very easily . . .just the mention this month of Diana gets me all teary eyed and I wasn't particularily a fan . . .but what a waste. I cry over Lassie and commercials, like AT&T, and Kodak moments . . .Can't take me anywhere!!

(Nan) I'm afraid I'm eyeball -deep at the moment. Yeah Nan. Just watch that nothing "pokes" it. I do not mind waiting. We must all focus our attention on what is truly important. Re: Titanic. I took my 11 year old son and his friend to see it. Since entering the 5th grade, girls have become his main topic of interest. He wanted to see what they were all fussing about because most of them had seen it several times. His favorite scene was the topless one (big surprise) and he laughed when the people were falling into the ocean. He is a sensitive kid who is easily touched so I asked him what he found so amusing about that scene. He said, "Mom, it's all so fake. It would make a cool video game though." He loved the music score. In AMITC, I came to the conclussion that Oxgodby was more than just a nice place to visit. It was as if the whole town was a metaphore for what people need in order to heal from the experience of war. He was not only restoring himself with the mural, he was uncovering a mystery. The mystery itself might be symbolic.

The Spring has registered the name colinfirth.com Anyone interested in building http://www.colinfirth.com ?

The Spring has registered the name colinfirth.com That's only appropriate. ;-)) Terry, you and Riette will be sorry anyway you ever invited us to Art, we will flood the place with Colin pics, all in the name of Art. ;-) Anyone interested in building http://www.colinfirth.com ? Yes, and we start with the "Official Firthaholics Anonymus" page.

NOOOOOOOOOO, please!!! Thank you all for the feedback on art - should I list a survival kit for those who go there for the first time? The first thing to bring along will be ..... you guessed it - sunglasses!!! But I did warn you in advance!!! So are any of you dearies going to post your art and loo sketches in our gallery or not?

(Terry) The Spring has registered the name colinfirth.com Anyone interested in building http://www.colinfirth.com ? Of course...don't go anywhere. We'll think of something ;-)

(Sofie) It was as if the whole town was a metaphore for what people need in order to heal from the experience of war. Very nicely put. I'd forgotten to include the little girl who died. Birkin came face to face with a death more senseless than those resulting from war. The death of an innocent child. I think this put his own experience back into perspective. He was not only restoring himself with the mural, he was uncovering a mystery. The mystery itself might be symbolic. What do you mean by *mystery*? About the muralist? Would like to hear how you see it as being symbolic.

What does it mean? Spring has registered Colinfirth.com. In practical terms. Aren't there already 3 boards?

Re; Saving Pvt. Ryan . (Nan) I'm a horrible weeper and could never see that in public. You would not be alone. I saw it in a full movie house and no one stirred at the end of the three hours ...not a dry eye in the place...men too.Tom Hank's best. And Steven Speilberg's gift to this century. NOW...back to AMITC.... Karen, I could not find Oxgodby anyplace even with a magnifying glass. . Perhaps a hamlet...but then it would not have a train station. It must be fictional. Sofie: By the "mystery" of the mural do you mean the fact that it had laid uncovered for so many centuries? Terry: Re: www.colinfirth.com.......are you evicting us?

Nan....we do impose on you fiercely. Thank you for all the work you put on the snappy pics..... but now you've gotten us used to images to accompany the film discussions. And the cheekiness of us...we expect it, already!! :-.)

Evicting you ??? Heavens no. I am trying to add more value to your incredible manifestation here.

(Karen}*mystery* Tom arrives in Oxgodby a hurt and bitter man. It's dark and raining and his reception by Keach is cold. When he watches Keach's sermon he speaks of Christ wanting some answers. I think he is speaking for himself.The mural becomes symbolic of the answers he seeks.He turns and sees Alice and in the next seen he is uncovering an angel.He has made assumptions about the town's people as being a smug Yorksire lot. His experience has made him view mankind as lacking in goodness and charity. After uncovering the angel, the children arrive bringing companionship and music.Their unjaded view of the world is expressed in genuine interest for what he is doing, which contrasts his view of simply being a laborer. When he first meets Alice he describes the mural as being a puzzle. It comes together slowly if it comes together at all. Alice describes it as being like opening a parcel at Christmas which is in direct opposition of his own pessimistic view. It is as if she seduces him back to life as he lies among the dead. Keach is the antithesis of what Tom wants to be, yet it is as if he is holding a mirror up showing him what can happen if he shuts himself off to life and love. It is also Keach who minimizes the importance of restoring the mural as it will "distract." From his own self importance maybe and the emptiness his life has become because of it. Although Tom leaves the town without expressing his love and desire toward Alice , he is able to bite into the apple she has given him and seems to relish it without bitterness. He has solved the mystery as to who he is. He can feel love and desire while remaining moral and forgiving.

(Karen) called the publisher this morning and they said it had been out of print for quite a while. Borders online has them for less than $20. Vinyl covering--haven't got mine yet, so I don't know what that means exactly.

I doublechecked. Borders still has them for $15.21 plus S&H etc., 2-4 weeks to ship. Maybe there's a vault somewhere.

Cheryl, the *vinyl* edition is in Braille. Perhaps, you should contact Borders to confirm, but I noticed the same at amazon.com's listing. Sofie: Love your interpretation of the mystery of the mural, but I think I prefer to look at Tom's experience in Oxgodby as the putting together of a broken jigsaw puzzle. He is more a broken man I think rather than someone who doesn't know who he is. Keach is the antithesis of what Tom wants to be, yet it is as if he is holding a mirror up showing him what can happen if he shuts himself off to life and love. In their final scene together, when he is paying Tom, Keach turns around and says (kind of): "I know what you think of me..." Keach is saying to Tom that he is a *realist* He reminded me of the character played by Edward Fox in The Choir. Someone has to attend to the business of the Church. I rewatched the movie last night and it was even *better* after reading the book. You can see and understand more of what people are saying and little things that go on. For example, on the train at the very beginning, he bumps into someone in the aisle. You can make out an "excuse me" said very sarcastically. This goes so perfectly with the sarcasm and cynicism that fairly flies off the pages from paragraph one. Oh, yes, the Sgt. Milbourne meeting in Ripon is totally different. In the book, he is totally sympathetic to Moon's plight and that he got the shaft, whereas in the movie he is bitter and the sentiment expressed is resentful that he and the other captains suffered while Moon got to sit out the remainder of the war in the glass house.

(Karen) He is more a broken man I think rather than someone who doesn't know who he is. Karen, do you think at the end Tom is still a boken, lonely man? I tend to agree with whomever said that Oxgodby and the mural, as a conduit ,helped to heal him. Great insight into his persona, Sofie.

(Evelyn) Karen, do you think at the end Tom is still a boken, lonely man? Oh, no, he leaves Oxgodby sans stammer and twitches. He is on the mend. When he returns, he is just looking back on the miraculous place and time he spent in the country. He is marveling at how such a place (the church and mural, the children, Alice via the book & rose) saved him.

When he returns I don't think he's just looking back. I find almost unbearable pathos in this scene. The old man's eyes are so sad. I always interpreted this scene to mean that he never again found true love (what sort of future would he have had with Vinny?) and that he carried the book and the pressed rose to remind him of the feelings he had for Mrs Keach and also the times when he came so close to declaring them. He briefly found happiness - and remembering the children only intensifies this feeling of loss. Or am I being too fanciful? What sort of interpretation does the book give? Was this Tom's only experience of love?

AMITC Ending Bethan What sort of interpretation does the book give? The book does not have Tom as an old man returning ot Oxgodby. Or biting into the apple, for that matter.He says"I never returned,never wrote, never met anyone who might have given me news of Oxgodby". Before that he says: "We can ask and ask but we can't have again what once seemed ours for ever---the way things looked, that church alone in the fields, a bed on a belfry floor, a remembered voice, a loved face. They're gone and you can only wait for the pain to pass". Could also be recapturing youth. Have you ever done that? Returned to a place that has happy memories that can never be duplicated again...that could never go on forever. This is one tricky author....lots of interpretations. And Vinny...I hope that nymphomaniac wasn't around long!

Waterstone's UK's largest on-line bookstore says they have AMITC . Would this also be a braille edition? Has enybody contacted them? http://waterstones.co.uk./

(Karen) Thanks! I sent them an inquiry. I didn't see the little W A T BRAI off to the right, but you're probably right that it means Braille. Now if only you could read the movie by feeling it ;-).

(Cheryle) Now if only you could read the movie by feeling it ;-). Way to go, Cheryle.....A COLIN FIRTH FILM IN BRAILLE.....to accompany the book. You're in the business....here's a goal to shoot for. Think of the great contribution this would be to "womankind"!!

Re: Waterstone's Does it give the name of the publisher? That would be one hint. (Bethan) I don't think he's just looking back. I find almost unbearable pathos in this scene. The old man's eyes are so sad. Oh dear, I thought I saw a little twinkle in his eyes. Was that a tear? I must go back and check this out. He may not have worked things out with Vinny (the little tramp), but that summer in Oxgodby gave him enough to make it through life and into old manhood. ;-) (Evelyn) Way to go, Cheryle.....A COLIN FIRTH FILM IN BRAILLE.... LOL!! Let's not be too demanding. Book, film, who cares!! The man himself and my fingers would do v.nice for me.

( Karen) Book, film, who cares!! The man himself and my fingers would do v.nice for me. "Grabby"(pun intended).....there's one in every crowd!! :-)

This conjurs up new possibilities for Contour Checkers which were heretofore unimaginable. Where does the line start? I am right behind you!!!!

(Evelyn)Waterstone's UK's largest on-line bookstore says they have AMITC. Yes, they do say that. I've emailed them to ask them and will pass on the results.

I know, this is not in line with what is being didcused now, but there are some new Snappy pictures of Colin in Romeo In Love, over at FoF. Does anyone know if it is going to be released in the U. S or if it is, when. After viewong these shots I really want to see this film.

lucie, do you mean *Shakespeare* in love?

Lucie, we've been discussing the Snappies over at topic #97 (General - Colin Firth). The movie is Shakespeare in Love (SiL) and it most definitely will be released in the US. NY and LA on December 4 or 5 and the rest of the country on Christmas Day. This is a big movie with big names and will have megapromotion. There's little chance it will sit on the shelf. We are all counting the days... ;-D

How do we know when to move on? I'm probably the only one who now has seen almost everything but wasn't privy to past conversations about them at Pemberley, so I may be the only one who's so eager to see what others think.

Don't worry, Cheryl, we haven't done all that many. In this separate topic format, there was Fever Pitch, The English Patient, Nostromo and AMITC now. You can go back to read the old ones, but we don't do them according to any prescribed schedule. Somebody just needs to stand up like in an old Mickey Rooney film and say, "Hey kids, let's discuss a film. We can use my uncle's old barn. I'll be fun!" But sometimes we need to take a rest between discussions to tend to our wounds and replace lost limbs. ;-) What would you like to do next? Just a hint.

Don't worry, Cheryl, we haven't done all that many. In this separate topic format, there was Fever Pitch, The English Patient, Nostromo and AMITC now. You can go back to read the old ones, but we don't do them according to any prescribed schedule. Somebody just needs to stand up like in an old Mickey Rooney film and say, "Hey kids, let's discuss a film. We can use my uncle's old barn. It'll be fun!" But sometimes we need to take a rest between discussions to tend to our wounds and replace lost limbs. ;-) What would you like to do next? Just a hint.

there *was* Fever Pitch, The English Patient... How did I ever get out of the second grade? :-o .

Somebody just needs to stand up like in an old Mickey Rooney film and say, "Hey kids, let's discuss a film. We can use my uncle's old barn. I'll be fun!" } Didn't someone say something like this at our get together in Chicago? ;-)

(Ann) Didn't someone say something like this at our get together in Chicago? ;-) Did someone? Or could you have imagined it during your blackouts caused by loss of blood? ;-D Oh, I know, this was in reference to something else, wasn't it? ;-)

Oh, I know, this was in reference to something else, wasn't it? ;-) } It was pre-blackout (BTW it is healing very nicely!!) Hey kids! Let's put on a show. We can use my uncle's barn. Everybody will com. It'll be swell!

(Karen)How did I ever get out of the second grade? :-o My sentiments exactly when I see some of my posts. However, 1) we were generating sentences at a much slower rate then :-) and 2) it seems grammar and spelling should be the least of _my_ worries here ;-) Hmmmmm. It doesn't seem Playmaker is a big favorite. It's cheesy, but there are things about it that I really like about Colin's performance in the beginning. And unfortunately it's practically a docudrama for the ridiculous way actors can be and are preyed upon. WofF? Completely in line with what C has said and done about his own fame, but the only thing that surprised me was Peter O�Toole�s line in the end�"I really liked it.". Apartment Zero toes C�s Party line as well ("all those people boring in, desperate to get in, and they don�t really know or care about you" or however it was put). HOTP would be fun, its� thin spots aside. FF: puh-leeze. FP is waiting for me at the post office. TD is either there, or I haven�t ordered yet. ATA: general acclaim, I th nk, that there's not enough there. V someday, even though the end is bizarre to me. Is PM too much of an "insider" flick to be of any interest (never mind that most of it is not believable)? They�re tedious, movies about the movie business and writing about writers block and songs about being about being a rock star. (Even _8 1/2_. Maybe if you�re Kafka or Jackson Browne it�s ok. :-) ) What about the Piggy Movie? There are several things it does well. Votes?

I'm game for Playmaker, Advocate, anything. Hope we discuss them all some day. I don't think PM is too much of an "insider" flick or at least for me, that's not why I don't like it. I dislike it mostly for the laughable acting (not Colin) and also because I hated seeing Colin grovel as Michael though he looked mighty cute. It would be an entertaining movie to dissect. Your collection is growing by leaps and bounds, Cheryl! Even if we've discussed them here, I hope you feel free to give us your thoughts on them at any time. I must put in a good word for FF, though, and that word (words) is "Where can I find a Joe Prince?" Colin is absolutely adorable and on that level, FF is very watchable. And I go down to that level a lot. ;-)

Please, anything but the "P" movie....

I just wish T or MOTM was available for all of us to watch. It is very vexing to think that we have to wait till December for something new w/ CF. Nan and Lou will just have to sustain us all with illustrated fanfic until then.

(nan)Please, anything but the "P" movie.... Maybe if we just whisper quietly in the corner, trying not to disturb you? :-) We won't talk about groveling, we'll say g********. I just think/feel there are cool things in the early part of the movie that are a clue to his "memorability factor." Those without refined sensibilities obviously need a bludgeoning to remember C, and there aren't many other roles I've seen where he's gotten to have as much authority as in the acting coach. Don't we th nk one of the charms of Darcy is his authority? There's a little authority in the Advocate role (not to mention---livestock!) But a lot of victim elsewhere. And as for the end of the of �shall we call it Q? Well, that was the role. Did he do his job, despite the other "actors" and the "director" and the "script", as far as we can tell? What did he uniquely bring to it? In other words, pretend it�s a long acting exercise. (heide)...growing by leaps and bounds, Cheryl! I'm afraid when I do something, I really do it :-# ...that word (words) is "Where can I find a Joe Prince?" "My mama told me, you'd better shop around." :-) I'm tired of movies where men find clearly insane women attractive (Betty Blue, etc.). That's one of my prejudices. However, let's talk! And I go down to that level a lot. ;-) I certainly would ;-) As often as possible.

(CherylE)I just think/feel there are cool things in the early part of the movie that are a clue to his "memorability factor." The last time we talked about this, Arami used similar words to defend it to me. I remember her being annoyed because I used the word "stinkiosity" to describe the overall feel of the film. LOL! Those days of butting heads seem like years ago. Anyway she, too, believes that, regardless of what's happening around him, Colin has some very good moments in that film. I can agree that it isn't the worst movie ever made. He just seems so miserable to me, that I feel almost (*almost* ;-p) guilty watching it. There are certain scenes (you know which ones) where I actually cringe for him, the poor dear. Colin, himself, wishes it would "sink without a trace" (Arami or Bethen, tell me if I got that quote right), so... However, I was just giving my opinion about the next film discussion, same as everyone else. The fact that I don't like the movie shouldn't stop you from talking about it or force you to whisper if you do ;-p Knock yourselves out ;-)

(hiedi)Where can I find a Joe Prince? I'd love to find one! Hope there's one looking for (not insane) but somewhat off-balance woman! (nan) "stinkiosity" I can see your point nan, and the fact that he hates the film does sway my opinion too. There is that pesky little fantasy of having him on the casting couch though. HHhhhmmm...slap me.

Here's a rarely seen quote...... ***************** The Sun, 27 August, 1994 MY DUFF JOB FOR THE BOY ...(snip)...... It wipes out memories of his last job - a Hollywood thriller The Playmaker, which he brands "complete rubbish." Colin, 34, who was kidnapped journalist John McCarthy in Hostages, only did the film so he could be with Will, his three-year-old son by ex-lover Meg Tilly, also 34, the American actress. He says: "My son happened to be in Los Angeles at the time. It was a three-week job and it paid extremely well. "It's a rather silly story about an acting coach who trains an actress by psychologically torturing her. "I knew it would be complete rubbish and I sincerely hope no one ever sees it." *************end of quote

But with just enough alcohol *P* is quite enterntaining:)-

(LauraMM) But with just enough alcohol. Or large quantities of herbal refreshments. The you can overlook the dumb script.

(renate)Here's a rarely seen quote.. Always something new up those sleeves! "It's a rather silly story about an acting coach who trains an actress by psychologically torturing her. Fascinating, as Spock would say. Isn't it about an actress who decides to take drastic action to further her acting career, and finds herself entangled in a web of mystery and murder? She was passable, he was really great. It might be easier to see that if he didn't think it was all about him, which it wasn't. (nan)I was just giving my opinion.....Knock yourselves out ;-) Yeah, you know we'll be overwhelmed by the putrid slime emanating from each frame and learn our lesson ;-) Ok, ok. Absolute stinkiosity. I wanted to bash his head in when he starts with the scissors. Or the stupid wheelchair thing. She needs to be in AA, not slurping a dirty red. But gentle readers, that's my point. I remember someone (one of us) saying she doesn't know the difference between the actor and the director and the script. In a sense, we can't know everything, for reasons I suppose I ought not go into just now ;-). But Arami seems to be pretty good at drawing the distinctions inasmuch as on can, and maybe other people I can't remember right now are too (sorry). We could talk about that, here and in other stinkers: How to separate Colin from the project. The piggy writer and piggy director got that girlie on the piano. It _is_ painful. Once I had a terrific actor who had done great things, did something great for me, did a couple more great things, but then was in a lull. I was casting for something and Danny coincidentally invited me to his off-off-Broadway play. It was entertaining---not even someone getting shot outside the theater budged the audience. (Someone had already called the ambulance�what else could we do?) Seeing him do nude scenes in a small loft/theater, all the other people being so bad, this adaptat on being so bad--it nearly broke my heart. But I learned: if you want to be an actor, or be friends with an actor, or be more ;-), this is the deal. Actors have to work. Any dramatic artist can work privately for only so long. You are compelled to be IN something. That�s the whole point of what you do. I read yesterday something Jodie Foster said about not wanting to do nude scenes for a long time. On *Hotel New Hampshire* director Tony Richardson told her something to the effect that she would never be a real actress until she could include her body. She wanted to hit him at the time, but now she sees what he means. HNH is not a work of art; most things aren�t. Most of Jodie�s movies, for example, aren�t. But we are all behooved to do our best, even in the 85-90% that leaves a lot to be desired. aybe you don't, but I look ridiculous a great deal of the time. Being embarrassed is another thing altogether. It�s hard to develop an attitude that will keep us vibrantly on the field (any field): "_It_ stunk, but I was great." Or, "I did the best I could with what I had at the time." Or "Oh, what I learned!" Whatever you think of Michael Caine or Gene Hackman or Anthony Hopkins or anyone who works a lot, they must have this or they�d have shot themselves long ago. If people have talent and skill, they can�t do it just for the money. Often, these guys, and (to raise the stakes) Judi Dench, Maggie Smith, and Jo n Plowright are the best thing about whatever they do. How? By not by being ashamed to be there, in their less-than-stellar projects. I read something recently about Zeffirelli directing a difficult, hot scene in *Tea With Mussolini.* These three actresses, Cher, and extras (=warm bodies) are shooting (=hot lights) in a tiny basement, and the streets outside are too narrow to get the stars� trailers parked within walking distance. Dench, Smith, and Plowright had the worst of it, waiting around in woo and fur, and they were silently furious. They nailed their lines every time, and went back to crossword puzzles while everyone else on the set tried to get their contribution to the take(s) right. The writer was struck by the actresses� attitudes of doing your job and moving on. One of them said, "When this is over, all we�ll remember is that it was very hot." I aspire to this equanimity. This is not to say that a Zeffirelli film could have stinkiosity, but as REM says: Everybody hurts sometimes. But maybe the game of *What Percentage Colin, What Percentage Dumbo X and Y* runs counter to the point of this board. Maybe it�s no fun to imagine DB in the real world, with mundane problems. I love watching actors deal with wacky material�if we both know they�re in a wacky situation, it becomes a game, and they know I think highly of them so no matter what they do it�s good fun. WoF and AZ were certainly wacky. Valmont, well, the poor guy didn�t _have_ playable material at the end. And so on.

Whoa, Cheryl, you've lost me. Are you saying actors will take roles, any role because they have to act? I like to think DB was offered other roles besides PM at that time but took it because it fit his other needs and obligations, not his acting needs. But maybe the game of *What Percentage Colin, What Percentage Dumbo X and Y* runs counter to the point of this board. I think we generally discuss the role CF is playing rather than CF himself though I always find time to comment on his looks which are undeniably, at the core, CF's own, not the character's (chameleon though he is). But I don't think anything runs counter to the point of this board, that is as long as we're discussing CF's films or related topics. Maybe it�s no fun to imagine DB in the real world, with mundane problems. Actually I prefer to think of him with mundane problems, like the rest of us. Which to me can mean being embarrassed about a particular piece of work (or something shoddy you prepared at the office) and really rather just forgetting it. But there it is. Playmaker is out there for public consumption and I have no problem critiquing it. Weren't we going to do Valmont in the near future though?

( Heide) Playmaker is out there for public consumption and I have no problem critiquing it. Weren't we going to do Valmont in the near future though? Playmaker is OK by me,.....only if Cheryle promises we'll do Valmont sometime. I certainly am looking forward to the redeeming qualities of P.!! :-) (It won't be the first time I've changed my mind on a film)

(heide) Whoa, Cheryl, you've lost me. Are you saying actors will take roles, any role because they have to act? I like to think DB was offered other roles besides PM at that time but took it because it fit his other needs and obligations, not his acting needs. Isn't that the same thing? They have to act (and probably need to make money, support the family, etc.) You can be offered different things, and you take something like PM because it fit his other needs and obligations, not his acting needs. We all are (heide)being embarrassed about a particular piece of work (or something shoddy you prepared at the office and really rather just forgetting it. But when that's so, I try not to bring it up again at a client meeting or to my boss (or, in C's case, to a reporter.) The less said the better. And most people have to do things we dislike or are "beneath" us for money--even years-long jobs or whole careers, if we can't find our way out. Everybody knows that's true for actors. But it seems to me that if I work with people and take their money, though I hate them and the project, again, less said the better. I heard that Jack Nicholson never said anything bad about anybody in the business. I find that very hard to believe, but it made me start thinking about this dilemna of tacky projects and having a career. 1. You don't like the people or the project. (Their response: They probably are aware of your opinion, especially if you're leaking hostility, and they don't feel too warmly about you because of it.) 2. The project is over years ago and you continue to put it down in the media. (Reactivates hatred of former co-workers and all of their cronies; who likes to be scorned?) 3. What comes of it? We're reminded of a stinker. But maybe it was just an actual "real" comment of many made to the reporter, and it's nice to say your real feelings once in a while. (heide)I think we generally discuss the role CF...don't think anything runs counter ... discussing CF's films or related topics. Just checking. Sometimes my enthusiasm is a Big Wet Blanket to people who don't really care about mechanics:-) (heide)Weren't we going to do Valmont in the near future though? (evelyn)...if Cheryle promises we'll do Valmont sometime. Sure. I thought from skimming the boards you had done it pretty thoroughly.

Hi gang. I have been away for yet another week on business and have enjoyed catching up on all your posts today. You inspired me to re-watch AMITC. It had been awhile and I enjoyed it even more after your insightful discussions. Thanks! Hmmm, Playmaker. I seem to remember this being discussed back in my lurking days, but I'm game. It will give me an incentive to watch the whole thing over from the beginning. I have to admit my copy seems to keep re-winding over the same parts, but I won't say which ones ;-)

Given the dearth of comments found in print about PM, I would think CF is trying to avoid bringing it up. Perhaps the one Renate posted was the result of some rather persistant questioning by an obnoxious reporter who wouldn't take "Let's move on; I have" as an answer. Remember, when in doubt, blame the media.;-) Discussing PM is fine with me. I think I'm going to enjoy hearing more of the insider view that you've already been writing about, Cheryl. Yeah, its a crappy film (a 9 on the Stinkosity Scale), but I'm willing to watch it again even beyond those couple of scenes in slo-mo. ;-D Another thing. You're so right, Cheryl. CF's comment was all wrong. The film is about the actress. Wonder why he said that? His comments about his films have been right on in the past. He has usually provided great insight into the written works as well. Strange about this one.

Question: Can we start PM after Labor Day (i.e., after 9/7)? Puhleez????

You're so right, Cheryl. CF's comment was all wrong. The film is about the actress. Wonder why he said that? Sounds to me that he is pretty defensive about it....embarassed....trying to rationalize choosing it . I don't think it's that bad.

(Karen)Can we start PM after Labor Day (i.e., after 9/7)? Puhleez???? Ok by me. That'll give me time to look at it again too. One thing that I find helps is if you think about it in sequences. I've only seen it once and that was when I first got here so I maybe including too much, but ...I think it goes: Actress is unhappy about career. Agent is scum. Bartender tells her about acting coach and MC (main character) decides to go for it. End of sequence 1. That may be two sequences--I can't remember if there are a lot of scenes of drinking and complaining and ov rhearing in the bathroom and such. Maybe it's just a long sequence. MC goes to house, blah, blah, blah. MC leaves house for good after much ado. There are sequences within this, mainly beginning and ending as their relationship changes. For example, the pearl thing is a scene (which is smaller than a sequence, what add up to sequences, but it begins with the chat about how much does she want to be a star. Many things happen to build her determination (some to our disgust, some of C's greatest moments IMO), but when the pearls go down, there's a release, a resolution of he challenge he's made to her. (Liked that scene v. much BTW. He's very good at the up-close work, the relationship stuff.) Then the relationship is different, and when does it change again? (I think he gets even better.) If I remember correctly, that (the relationship and its changes) is what drives each sequence until we get to the murder. Then it's action driven again. (Karen)(Evelyn)I think you're right. Definitely blame the media--they have to keep themselves employed, at anyone's expense and certainly at the expense of reality. I wish I were a musician so I could write a song which I can only convey in mountains of words here--to tell him it's OK, he didn't do anything wrong. That's why I need actors _and_film _and_music, and a good editor ;-) To get across simple things that nobody told us or we forgot. (Karen)He has usually provided great insight into the written works as well. Mais oui! If he wasn't smart, I wouldn't like him. And *jornalists* have long done as ET does--collect as much info as possible, file it, and run it when you feel like it. So it can be way out of context.

So sorry, I didn't read the earlier post closely enough and I don't think it makes sense. Retransmit 2nd paragraph: MC goes to acting coach's house= beginning of sequence 2. Blah, blah, blah. MC leaves house for good after much ado=end of an overarching sequence. This is one long sequence, but there are sequences within this. These smaller ones are the ones I look for, and if memory serves, these sequences begin and end as their relationship changes. For example, the pearl incident, beginning with her waking up and ending with the pearls getting ground up, is a _dramatic_ scene. So as not to confuse things let's leave all that way of looking at it aside. Sometimes these correspond with sequences, sometimes they don't. (Unless you're a playwright or novelist or simply don't find this confusing; then have at it!) Another way to look at the pearl incident is that it's a sequence that begins when she arrives at the house. The focus of their struggle is: how bad do you want it? She has various responses, things happen, but ultimately her answer is: enough to lose the pearls forever. There's a release. That leads to the next sequence. I think this pearl sequence and the next one or two have a lot of startlingly good work (C); he's _so_ good at the up-close work, the relationship stuff. BTW, am I the only one who eels sorry for the girl? Part of my cringes here are for her, and I want to take a baseball bat to the writer and the director. If I remember correctly, the relationship (and when it changes) drives each sequence until we get to the murder. Then it's action driven again.

Shoot! And all I ever got out of the movie was the shower scene! ;-D Bethan, post your directions now so that everyone can study the film adequately in conjunction with Cheryl's excellent guide above.

firth.com is coming online soon. Ready for the content producers almost. And colinfirth.com will be at the same address. I'll see about setting up a placemarker page and co-ordinating with nan and the firth web team.

Terry, *TWO* Firth-domains at once? Wow! :-))

Terry, will the Firth-domain websites belong to Drool.....since we are all part owners of this Spring community? I like the idea of " owning a piece of Colin". :-))))

Thank you Cheryle for giving us a guideline on how to view and appreciate ( are you listening, Nan?) this film. . OK everybody....start viewing Playmaker and we shall start discussion on Tuesday ...Sept.8

(Terry) I'll see about setting up a placemarker page and co-ordinating with nan and the firth web team. Thanks Terry. Just send me an email when Jeff's done and we'll go from there.

(Evelyn) I like the idea of " owning a piece of Colin". :-)))) Now, now...I know you're only kidding, but let's not go there. Only Colin owns Colin (well, perhaps Livia, too ;-p). BTW, Spring is the registrant of the domain name, not Drool. One has nothing to do with the other. (Karen) Shoot! And all I ever got out of the movie was the shower scene! ;-D Now this I understand. LOL! (Evelyn) Thank you Cheryle for giving us a guideline on how to view and appreciate (are you listening, Nan?) this film. Yes, I read it but it doesn't change my opinion. Honey, school starts next week. (aaaaaaaagh!!!) No offense to anyone, but do you think I'm going to waste my few remaining brain cells trying to be cerebral about Playmaker? ;-p I'm lucky if I get through this program in one piece... Nan (having back-to-school anxiety)

(Nan) No offense to anyone, but do you think I'm going to waste my few remaining brain cells trying to be cerebral about Playmaker? ;-p OK, if you don't want to be cerebral, be technical. Need you to enhance a glass block segment. You know which one. ;-)

Third from the right, second row up (or was it second from the right, third row up? :-) )The Full Monty for the eagle sighted (or wishful thinking for the over imaginative!)