(Nan) Spring is the registrant of the domain name, not Drool. One has nothing to do with the other. But aren't we all "one family"? Need you to enhance a glass block segment. You know which one. ;-) Yesssssss!!

Get your little Snappy clicking away, Nan.

I'm in total agreement with nan. I'm starting my last year of grad. school next week and I vote we all cut to the chase. The shower scene is about all I want to deal with, although there is one scene that does bring a special little fantasy to mind. Hhhhmmmm? Where's that boy toy when I need him?

(nan)...waste my few remaining brain cells trying to be cerebral about Playmaker? LOL! No way Jose! PM isn't going anywhere :-) Anyway, I don�t think of PM as a film. When I really look at C, what he does, how he does it ---miraculously, everything else vanishes (almost). Cerebral? Visceral . . . aren�t you the one who likes a certain hockey player? I was married to one once. I lurve visceral. C is visceral here. I watched it again today since I'm going away for Labor Day, and I retract my earlier statements. I think ALL of his performance is first rate and I'm proud to be promoting it. (karen)And all I ever got out of the movie was the shower scene! ;-D Some of the rest is just as, um, visceral when you feel connected to his performance. For me it's like the difference between liking a song because it makes you have a story or feeling, and loving a song because you feel like you are having YKW with the singer; you are knowing him _intimately_. The latter happens as I know more about acting. It can be a very direct experience, that connection. Cheryl's excellent guide above.I dunno about that, but if only you could see just him. He's talking to you. You�re reading the girl�s lines with him, so you don�t have to worry about the rest of the characters; they�re just somebody�s relatives filling in for today . You�re only in the scenes with C. (Of course, you�re much better than she is. ;-) ) He's talking to you. (terry)firth.com is coming online soon...web team. I had wondered but thought it was bad form to ask. I can't wait to see what happens. (bethan)Third from the right... imaginative! Were these the instructions from the past that made me laugh so hard I choked?

From Waterstone's, if you're still in the market for AMITC: Just to confirm that the above title published by Quince Tree Press is in fact a normal print edition and was despatched on 29/08/98 via Airmail as requested. Thanks for the suggestion, Evelyn.

FILM RELEASE SCHEDULE USA Fever Pitch October or November 1998 New York and LA does this me only these cities?

(cherylE) aren�t you the one who likes a certain hockey player? Indeed I am. He is the very essence of my lustful aspirations ;-) I was married to one once. Aah! A man with scars who wears garters. YUM! ;-) Anyone I know?

(Donna) does this me only these cities? Looks that way. Fortunately, I happen to be in one of them ;-)

(Donna) does this me only these cities? Nick Hornby said at his book signing that FP would be put out in a limited release. I was hoping that meant more than just two cities, but maybe not. (Nan) Looks that way. Fortunately, I happen to be in one of them ;-) And fortunately, I'm in the other one. Hmmm, access to CF almost makes up for all the smog and 112 degree weather we've been having.

Thanks for such a quick response. So then I'll have to wait a year for the VHS video! I give up:(

Fever Pitch will likely be in other cities, but just not in wide release. I can't imagine that it would be *that* limited. I can't think of any film that only played NY & LA. Doesn't even make distribution worth one's efforts. It will play here. (I know it will, I know it will, I know it will). If I keep saying it, it will happen. ;-D

(Nan)Anyone I know? Probably not. He was the first Russian to be in the draft and play in the States. Went to the wrong team (for his playing style, LA), and it was not pretty. (Nan)I happen to be in one of them ;-) (Jana)I'm in the other one. I'm in one:-) (Karen)I can't think of any film that only played NY & LA. Doesn't even make distribution worth one's efforts. Maybe something that needs to be shown before the deadline for Academy Award consideration. Or if it needs a theatrical release to fulfill a contractual obligation before it can go to cable or video. But for everyone's sake I'll see if there's a distribution spell in my witchcraft manual . . .

(Cheryl) Maybe something that needs to be shown before the deadline for Academy Award consideration. Don't think FP fits in this category. ;-) But those films go into wide release in January or later when the Xmas stuff has run its course. Or if it needs a theatrical release to fulfill a contractual obligation before it can go to cable or video. Interesting...cable or video. Bwaaa!! I want to see it on a BIG BIG screen. But for everyone's sake I'll see if there's a distribution spell in my witchcraft manual. What about contacts at the distributors for I'm sure the *complete* list of cities? I believe I heard the name Phaedre or some such.

Should have said: But those films go to other cities later when the Xmas stuff has run its course or at the art houses when screens are freed up from the 4Q crush of films. But as FP is not an art house type of film...

(CherlyE) Probably not. He was the first Russian to be in the draft and play in the States. Went to the wrong team (for his playing style, LA), and it was not pretty. You were married to Victor Nechaev? Then again, I don't know if he was drafted. But he was definitely the first Russian to actually play in the NHL...and with the Kings. (Karen) Interesting...cable or video. Bwaaa!! I want to see it on a BIG BIG screen I haven't seen Colin on a big screen in an actual starring role. I don't think ATA counts, for obvious reasons.

(Nan)I happen to be in one of them ;-) (Jana)I'm in the other one. I'm in neither. But I'd still love to see FP released in the US somewhere. I want to see Siskel & Ebert review it. I want to see the video in our local stores and not with a big SALE sticker on Colin's face like I saw on every copy of FP in a London Tower record store). I want..I want...I want....

But I'd still love to see FP released in the US. Yes I agree with this,but I could care less what S&E think. Now your last statement must mean that the movie ran its course. That is understandable and now way refers to the quality of the movie,right? I do believe that very many soccer fans here in the states would really enjoy this movie.

Fever Pitch will likely be in other cities, but just not in wide release. Often the distrib tests the film on each coast to see how it "sells". WILDE started in LA and NYC then a few weeks later covered other major cities.(Chicago, Dallas, Detroit ) It was not scheduled for Oklahoma City (not a major city...only 2 M people!), but was released there and played three weeks at an AMC Cinema. FP should do at least as well. Has a good target audience too.

I want to see the video in our local stores and not with a big SALE sticker on Colin's face like I saw on every copy of FP in a London Tower record store). FP was released end of October 97 when I was in UK, and selling v. well. Came out same time as TEP. At Heathrow I was pleased to see FP and TEP both with big displays...thinking how great it was to see two CF vids prominently featured at once. Maybe the sale ones are from an additional press. I also wonder if the British are into buying videos as we are. I don't think they attend the cinema as often as we do in the US.

Okay, I've just spent my lunch break surfing the net......movie release dates! Found October 98 release NY and LA for FP (Phaedra). I also found, puzzlingly, a US site dated about six months ago which listed FP as actually released and (v.g} reviewed it very favourably....praise for Colin and Ruth Gemmell in "one of the most pertinent and entertaining movies of the year". (BTW I think FP did well in video sales in the UK. I agree, we're not a nation of movie goers...perhaps more video watchers (borrow not buy!)!) Then found, very annoyingly, that the two other Handmade movies, Lock Stock and Man with Rain are both listed for January 99 release in the US (While SLOW languishes held by a Bank, for goodness sake...GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!). Also other UK Arts Council funded movies are making it big....Plunket & Greene on general release early 99 in US, ditto Jackie and Helen, plus Venice Film Festival. I'm a lady (:-) ) but doesn't it make you want to SPIT!! Colin must be lucky in love, cause in business he sure has his bli s (not his fault!) MLSF....only found second quarter 99. Why thea delay? Hopefully for a release with some impact."Colin Firth of Oscar winning TEP and SIL" perhaps? :-) Couldn't find any UK dates. We're in for a long, long wait. :-( A fruitful lunchbreak? I dunno. Can anyone come up with anything else.

(Bethan)just spent my lunch break surfing the net...Found October 98 release NY and LA for FP (Phaedra). I also found, puzzlingly, a US site dated about six months ago which listed FP as actually released and (v.g} reviewed it very favourably... I don't want to appear ungrateful, but it would be nice and helpful to have the links as well, dear...:-)

FP did open in Canada during World Cup, perhaps that was its North American release date???? (Donna) I do believe that very many soccer fans here in the states would really enjoy this movie. It's not really a soccer movie. It is more a romantic comedy about a man who has an obsession and the woman who comes between him and his obsession. Any obsession or any sport can be substituted. Hopefully it will be marketed to reach the wider audience. If it is promoted as a soccer movie, then it will likely fail to be noticed. They need to push it as a "When Harry Met Sally" or "Sleepless in Seattle" type, then all the right people will go (i.e., women who cannot but fall for the ever-adorable Pet r Panlike Paul Ashworth).

Well, has it come out in video over there? Coz I'm flying to Toronto the day after tomorrow, and might borrow and watch it when my boyfriend isn't looking... Although he's a soccer fan, he'll probably fall asleep in the middle anyway ;-)

(Donna) I do believe that very many soccer fans here in the states would really enjoy this movie. (Karen) It's not really a soccer movie. I know that no one agrees with me....including the star of the picture..... but I think it's a soccer movie. :-)

I didn't mean to imply by my Tower Records story that FP was not a success because it was on sale. Actually, if I remember correctly, it was part of a promotion at that particular store, along with The Full Monty and other big name films so I would think it was pretty successful. What I found funny was that on all the Girl Side covers, nothing obstructed the viewing of Ruth Gemmell but on every single Boy Side cover (and I looked at a bunch) a big red sticker was smack on Colin's face. It was like some sadistic store employee (male of course) was out to get even with every Darcy fan. Bethan, don't get discouraged. We're all in this with you, we're just making you do the legwork. Someday you're going to find out something fantastic and I can't wait to read that.

on every single Boy Side cover (and I looked at a bunch) a big red sticker was smack on Colin's face. It was like some sadistic store employee (male of course) was out to get even with every Darcy fan. But this photo of Colin isn't the best one can imagine... in fact it's the least favourite of mine: he's totally unrecognizable, so who cares.

(Nan) he was definitely the first Russian Now how on earth could you possibly know a thing like that? Yes, none other.

But this photo of Colin isn't the best one can imagine... in fact it's the least favourite of mine: he's totally unrecognizable, so who cares. Agreed. Colin doesn't look like Colin, He doesn't even look like Colin as Paul Ashworth. Part of a misguided marketing ploy to dispel the Darcy image?! Movie release dates......I can't remember the exact web sites. I just use various meta-search engines, such as askjeeves.com, and just see what comes up through the search terms.

I know I need remind no one of the date today (happy birthday, sweetie) but it's also 3 days after US Labor Day. Let Playmaker begin.

Okay, "Playmaker", may not be CF's better films, (again, Happy Birthday, Colin!!) but Good God!, he does look very good;) I particularly like the glasses, the sweater when he is outside when whatshername shows up at that fabu house! Oh, when he is watching her in that room -- he looks sinister, but sexy!! I watched it, well tried to watch it while sober. I think I definitely like this movie better whilst drunk. You get so much more out of it:) I like Michael, but don't understand how he can be so forceful as the "Playmaker", then lose it as himself. I know that he is playing a role here, (Michael, I mean), but he SLEPT with her and SHOWERED with her. Ya think he woulda known:) On the rock, I mean;) And she(what the heck was her name?) looked better with that wig on!

Hey Laura....who the hell is Michael? The Playmaker is RossTalbot, and she is Jamey Harris. The bartender is Eddie. OK..let's start all over again..... Tomorrow, Heide...we'll start in earnest. We've been distracted with B'days (Happy B'day DB), and the debut of new website. Such excitement at Drool....

OK, Laura...I apologize.... Now I know who you mean by Michael -on-the-rocks vs. Ross-in-the-shower. And are you a new Auntie tonight?

No, she still hasn't had the baby:( So I guess pushing for September 10, was really pushing it:) Hee hee. Michael is his real (character) name; Ross was the real "Playmaker", the dead guy:)

I thought Playmaker was the name of the movie Jamie and Michael wanted to be in. (Laura)don't understand how he can be so forceful as the "Playmaker", then lose it as himself. I know that he is playing a role here, (Michael, I mean), but he SLEPT with her and SHOWERED with her. Ya think he woulda known:) On the rock, I mean;) Hard to say if that�s the stupidest thing in the movie, but it�s got to be in the top 3. If he�s so enamored of her, at first her voice would remind him of Jamie, even if he wasn�t expecting her. And it�d be downhill from there�certainly not uphill ;-) To me, at least 3 things contribute to this part being clear, sharp, and sexy. 1)(the best) Playing Ross, he always has something to do. 2) As an actor, these scenes are about standard things actors actually talk about, so he�d know the material like the back of his hand, and the authority comes through. 3)He doesn�t care what anybody thinks, and that�s priceless. Maybe because he thought the movie was garbage from the beginning. Characters who don�t give a damn (and are cute) can be very engaging. 1)Having something to do is really important; actors ACT. Unfortunately, scripts and directors are usually stupid and/or untrained and/or not suited for the job, and actors are asked to "be jealous", "be upset", etc. What does that mean? It doesn�t belong in a screenplay or a shooting script since it�s not something the eye can see. It�s not something directors should tell actors because "jealous" isn�t a verb. In all these scenes, even if the actions are stupid, C�s given himself something to do. I think he did it, because all the other scenes are limp and people don�t have clear objectives and there�s no conflict. One thing great screen actors do (I don�t know theater) is they try to overcome bad directors just this way: they direct themselves. Michael would also have been through all these acting classes and exercises before, and because he isn�t doing so well in the business, could relish the role of sadistic master instead of village idiot. Having clear objectives, meeting obstacles, and overcoming them is seductive, and scene after scene in the house follows this pattern. Because C knew where he was going in a scene (as C and as M, as I realized on second viewing), the actress had something to react to, and these scenes crackle (relatively peaking). I�m sometimes tricked into thinking one thing is the objective when it turns out to be another, but the twists keep me more interested. This "having an objective and achieving it" is to me the difference Laura talks about. Michael loses when he�s himself because it�s Jamie�s turn to be in charge, and she falls into clich� (as Jamie and as an actress). Well, the writer/director (henceforth WD) does. The catalog of men�s abuse of women onscreen is much richer than vice versa, and male WDs do so hate to see women abusing male characters, so they just don�t let it go on too long. Neither Jamie nor the actress who plays her is forceful enou h to engage C; she just barks. If C is stronger, he�d take over the scene, and they wouldn�t be making the right movie. He was probably really limited by her, since in the shooting scene he picks up again just before he dies. PS Happy, happy birthday to you, Colin!

(Laura) Michael is his real (character) name; Ross was the real "Playmaker", the dead guy:) (Evelyn) The Playmaker is RossTalbot (Cheryl)I thought Playmaker was the name of the movie Jamie and Michael wanted to be in. Think sports, sports, sports. Michael and Jamie have already been cast in the role of playmaker. They put Eddie in a position to score. (Cheryl) In all these scenes, even if the actions are stupid, C�s given himself something to do. I think he did it, because all the other scenes are limp and people don�t have clear objectives and there�s no conflict. Beyond self-direction, he is just a much better actor. You can see it in Jennifer Rubin. After she's been through this ordeal that brings her out, frees her from what is holding her back, she's really the same, actingwise, a nothing. She just moves with more assurance and sucks her finger a little less. Michael loses when he�s himself because it�s Jamie�s turn to be in charge Love how we see Michael reacting to Jamie sprawled out on the piano. She's appealing to Ross (What do you want?), but it's Michael who is responding. That should have given us a clue that he was not really Ross, the sadistic acting coach who had an irate husband take a baseball bat to his legs. Then of course in bed afterward, he knows he shouldn't have gone there. A mistake. He broke character. Major failure for an actor. Perhaps, this is supposed to indicate why he hasn't made it in Hollywood, can t get parts. Michael is just not a good or great actor. male WDs do so hate to see women abusing male characters, so they just don�t let it go on too long. I think in its usual incarnation we would find that scene equally distasteful. What is interesting is that most people comment on how embarrassed Colin looks in that scene. He's supposed to be embarrassed, as would anyone being forced to perform sexually for a role in a movie. Question: Do you think it was necessary to go to such lengths to differentiate Michael from Ross? (the accent and the hair) Colin's certainly able to be two different people without having to don costume and makeup. (Laura) but he SLEPT with her and SHOWERED with her. Ya think he woulda known:) What was that line that Jellicoe's father told him and that he passes onto Neil? "In the dark, all cats are black." ;-D

My take on PM.......strictly B-movie-ish, but not as bad as Nan thinks! CF makes it very watchable, and for once we see a lot of him, in all senses of the word. I tend to suspend critical judgement, totally,........ I must admit that when I first saw PM, I couldn't help wondering how all the armies of women who'd fallen for the delectable but restrained Mr D, would react to the scene on the rocks. (I also can't make out if he is genuinely embarrassed or acting embarrassed). Rather illogically (I was busy rewinding and freeze-framing at the time!) I wondered if it would damage (enhance?) his following!!! Is PM readily available in the US? In the UK, as far as I know, it's only been shown once, very late, on Sky, and isn't available on video. Preserving his reputation or depriving us of treats untold? :-)

Can someone keep a copy of this discussion, please, so that we may perhaps consider posting an edited version permanently on colinfirth.com? Also, has anyone kept a record of our previous film discussions, or at least some interesting excerpts? Or could someone research/retrieve them? It would be great to have a permanent record of these ruminations so that the visitors to the site could compare them with similar ones at other sites. Let Nan know.

(Laura) but he SLEPT with her and SHOWERED with her. Ya think he woulda known:) Michael is a little thick....first clue he gets that she is Jamie is when she tells him she'll meet him in the playroom. Karen, I like your view that Michael broke character when he responds physically to her. He didn't follow through, because he was a rotten actor. You think CF purposely played it that way? Or was the part written with that intention? Thanks Cheryle for all the WD ideas .CF self-directing....maybe a Robert Redford some day :-) He was probably really limited by her, IMO She's the real weak link in this film. Has to be one of the worst actresses on record. As Michael or Ross, he still looks cute though. Gonna view it again tonight :-)

(Bethan) Is PM readily available in the US? Yes. Critics Choice has it...I got it for $5. on sale. I think I read that Best Buy had it in the sale bin. Actually, it has been shown several times on HBO late at night. Definitely, not in prime time. Blockbuster video stocks it too for rent. And not even in the porn section. It is R rated but not NC-17. Hey, with what we're reading in the News....this stuff is pretty mild.

Let's not be too hard on Michael's acting skills. The poor guy had to stay in character for 24 hours, he's allowed a slip-up. The role of Ross was a role of a lifetime for Michael. He got to play a character he obviously wasn't - cold, demanding, commanding, sinister - and he pulled it off. He had me fooled anyway. Plus I think Michael was cuter but then I'm a sick-o for vulnerable men. (Cheryl) 1)(the best) Playing Ross, he always has something to do. True, true. He gets to show some of his chops - um, I mean acting chops. ANd at least he's in the film for much of it. Although the movie would be probably be a bit more bearable if he hadn't had to share all his film time with her. Michael would also have been through all these acting classes and exercises before.. Horrors! You mean the putting the hand in the garbage disposal exercise and the putting on the clown make-up lesson? I think that wheelchair lesson had me more embarrassed than the rocks. (Karen) Love how we see Michael reacting to Jamie sprawled out on the piano. Just what is the attraction anyway? She looks incredibly awkward in that dress, very boyish, not sexy at all. I think she was a pretty girl but she looked so gawky trying to be sexy. (Laura) but he SLEPT with her and SHOWERED with her. Ya think he woulda known:) On the rock, I mean;) And she(what the heck was her name?) looked better with that wig on! Snort! (how does one draw an emoticon for that?) You got the whole problem of this plot in a nutshell, Laura. (Karen) After she's been through this ordeal that brings her out, frees her from what is holding her back, she's really the same, actingwise, a nothing. Don't you just love the stunned looks on the faces of the casting people? What an audition! What a performance! We've got the next Meryl Streep here! Can she do accents? (Evelyn) Critics Choice has it...I got it for $5. About what it's worth. I'll probably have more to say after I watch it. I was going to mention the shower scenes but since the discussion is still taking the high road, I didn't want to pull it down yet. Arami has a good suggestion but how does one go about saving the discussions... other than copying and storing in a word processing program. See, I told you I was ignorant. I think adding a Film Discussion to the new site would be a hoot. Kind of like a Chicks on Flicks. (Sorry, there's already a site called that.)

(Evelyn) Michael broke character when he responds physically to her. He didn't follow through, because he was a rotten actor. (Heide) Let's not be too hard on Michael's acting skills There's another way to look at it: the dilemma an actor faces when real life interferes with his/her work. As gossip columns and celebrity biographies tell us stories of actors having affairs with their acting partners, on the surface it may be acceptable when the fictional characters are also supposed to fall in love ( one or two examples readily spring to mind...;-)). In this film, actor Michael allows the reality to cause a temporary collapse of the character of Ross - a character he obviously wasn t - cold, demanding, commanding, sinister. His falling for Jamie's charms (whatever they might be...) is the only indication that he, Michael, wasn't like Ross in real life. He involuntarily created a flaw in Ross's character, if you like. The mask has slipped. Does it mean he was a rotten actor? And what does it tell us of his "real" self - a vulnerable, lonely man or a sexual predator? How all this shaped his acting ability? It must have seemed a very interesting thread for an actor to play, but... as we have already said, the infuriating thing is that all this elaborate set-up in the first part of the film leads to absolutely nothing at all. The second half is botched in a criminal way. What a waste. BTW, I don't think Colin was showing his own embarrassement in that stupid scene on the rocks - it was Michael who was embarrassed and humiliated. Colin was definitely acting. I am convinced there's not one single moment in any of his films in which he isn't in character. If anyone suspects otherwise - that in my view only reinforces Colin Firth's triumph as an actor. (Evelyn) how does one go about saving the discussions... other than copying and storing in a word processing program. Exactly so. I'll try to do it with this discussion, but perhaps someone has already copied and saved some of our previous ones?

(Evelyn) He didn't follow through, because he was a rotten actor. What do you mean, Evelyn, by "he didn't follow through"? With what? Michael's Acting Ability I don't think I'm being too hard on Michael. I believe I only said he wasn't a "good or great actor" and "Perhaps, this is supposed to indicate why he hasn't made it in Hollywood, can't get parts." He is a young, struggling actor. Much like Jamie. According to the casting director: "He's a nobody...well, nobody special. He's done some off-off Broadway and some regional theater, a few commercials. No film experience as far as I know." Taking this part--to be Ross Talbot--is what young, struggling actors do. They dress up in bunny suits with balloons and deliver birthday wishes and they perform in murder mystery dinners. Being Ross Talbot is sort of like a murder mystery dinner. Or maybe its like being in one's birthday suit and delivering one's best wishes... ;-D Michael did not do well at his audition for Playmaker. "He seemed kinda nervous. He kept forgeting his lines and everything. I don't know. Like he was on drugs." His slip out of character may only be due to the rigors of having to be in character for more than 24 hours as you suggest, Heide, but it may also be his attraction for her--physically and emotionally. Despite what we think of Jennifer Rubin's looks, everyone has their *type*!!

(Arami) (Evelyn) how does one go about saving the discussions... other than copying and storing in a word processing program. Exactly so. I'll try to do it with this discussion, but perhaps someone has already copied and saved some of our previous ones Someone else said this...not me. Nothing I say is worth copying or storing. But I do think we have had some excellent comments on H, N, and AMITC. And even FP. (Karen) What do you mean, Evelyn, by "he didn't follow through"? With what? I mean he didn't follow through as an actor by remaining detached from the real Jamie. He allowed himself to revert to his real-life emotiona/physical feelings. And get out of character. But who knows...maybe Ross would have shagged her too. Anyway, I'm not crazy about the rock scene....but hey folks, that second shower scene was worth the five bucks I paid for the vid :-)))

I know we're discussing PM but #97 is so quiet that I think I'll post here. Just to say that Handmade's "Lock Stock etc" has made �3million in just over a week in the UK. I realise that in US box office terms this may sound very small, but for the UK this is an impressive return. "The Horse Whisperer" has made �2.6 million, and "The Avengers" has faded away at �2million. And these are hugely expensive movies. I don't know if this will have an impact on Handmade's financial crisis or rescue them from receivership. They only have 3 new movies on their books, "Lock Stock" and "Man with Rain", both with a budget of �1million each and SLOW,with a budget of �3.4million. It is not as though they're a huge movie production company borrowing hundreds of millions. Could "Lock,stock" bale them out? Back to PM! I'm afraid I've no intellectual contribution to make. I like his feet though!

(Bethan) I like his feet though! Fine. So tell us exactly why.

(Nan) he was definitely the first Russian (CherylE) Now how on earth could you possibly know a thing like that? Yes, none other. Because I am a true and genuine hockey fan, dear. Did you think I was kidding? Yes, the scarred men oozing testosterone help, but it's really the sport I love. And btw, I don't think any team in the NHL was ready for the Russian playing style in 1982 (well, maybe Edmonton)�so it wouldn't really have mattered where he ended up, I suppose. (bethan) My take on PM.......strictly B-movie-ish, but not as bad as Nan thinks! I stand by my verdict ;-) BTW, I don't think Colin was showing his own embarrassement in that stupid scene on the rocks - No rocks, no rocks! I beg of you�;-)

(Bethan) "Lock Stock" and "Man with Rain", both with a budget of �1million each and SLOW,with a budget of �3.4million. You once asked why the bank took over SLOW as collateral....probably because it's the most expensive film Handmade had....also it was not yet finished when they went into bankruptcy. Remember when Rubicon was going to take them over...SLOW was still progressing at glacial speed in post-production. But I am not despondent...I think we shall see it yet on the big screen.

While the rest of PM is not up to Colin's talent, I do enjoy watching him show his stuff with the two very different characterizations. I'm with Heide (I think it was with you,dear?) in that I prefer his looks as Michael, rather than Ross. I also enjoyed Michael's American accent. It seemed natural to me. I can't say the same about ATA. The MidWestern twang sounded forced to me and took me out of CF's portrayal as Jess. But I thought Michael's voice was right on. This is a very minor point, and I know Jamie was supposed to lack confidence, but what was up with the wardrobe they gave her to wear? The dresses with those vest things were not only ugly, they were quite unflattering on that particular actress. And even after Jamie was supposed to be confident and successsful, I could have done without that white crocheted skull cap at the end. I can't imagine anyone looking lovely in that. Sorry my post isn't very cerebral. Not feeling too clever today :-(. (Evelyn) that second shower scene was worth the five bucks I paid for the vid :-) The first one wasn't too bad either!

(Nan) don't think any team in the NHL was ready for the Russian playing style in 1982 True, but me and Harry Sindon (sp?) wanted him to go to Boston. ;-) Or Hartford. It would have been closer in style. And the Russian communities were less sleazy, and I had more friends (Russian and otherwise) in Boston than LA. (Karen)think it was necessary to go to such lengths to differentiate Michael from Ross? (the accent and the hair) Nope, but maybe that was for the audience (if we're stupid enough to be watching this movie...) On that topic, did anybody else get the agent and the bartender confused the first time around? They�re so similar in type. When Eddie comes in after shooting Michael, I thought he was the agent. . . (Arami)The second half is botched in a criminal way. What a waste. If it hadn't gone so far off track, it could have been "seriously flawed" instead of "goofy and ridiculous". (Arami) He involuntarily created a flaw in Ross's character, if you like. The mask has slipped. Does it mean he was a rotten actor? Exactly. It doesn�t. Just hard to hold onto Ross� character through all this for all this time. (bethan)isn't available on video. Reel.com--I got it used for cheap. (Evelyn)Ross would have shagged her too. I thought that was his primary pedagogical technique. (Heide)You mean the putting the hand in the garbage�? I think that wheelchair lesson had me more embarrassed than the rocks. It�s amazing what passes for an acting lesson. However, that�s an interesting thread, the pearls in the disposal. Why did Michael do that? If she got the $5000 by pawning the pearls (unlikely but what we�re led to believe), and he bought them back, then Michael threw his own money away. They both lost a lot. Ross couldn�t have planned the pearl thing since he didn�t know how she�d get the money. So then I wonder, what motivations of his own, as a failing actor, did Michael have in this shenan gan? Now that would have been interesting to see. Hmmmmm. Anybody for a PM knockoff? Maybe Nan will help with storyboards. ;-) The wheelchair thing was horrid. Too much S&M posing as a lesson in �not quite sure. Too many other topics rearing their ugly little heads for the scene to be about anything but S&M: her alcoholism, her hatred of herself, hatred of her looks �. You can just see the WD saying, oh, this�ll be visual, he�ll put this makeup on her, and then she�ll have it on while she�s taped into the wheelchair, and there�ll be this pool of wine �.blah, blah. It�s visual, but rootless and stupid. If the sc ne was about her learning to do anything to achieve her objective in a scene, we would have been happy when she succeeded. Instead we were embarrassed, because it wasn�t about anything we would want her to achieve. It wasn�t a worthy goal (an alcoholic needing a drink ); it was sexually degrading (yet another woman licking yet another floor); it wasn�t about learning to act better, it was about something the actress wanted in real life, and so on. (Karen) After she's been through this ordeal that brings her out, frees her from what is holding her back, she's really the same� (Heide)Don't you just love the stunned looks on the faces of the casting people� Can she do accents? LOL! They were stunned? So that�s what that was. I�ve seen theoretical mathematicians act better than those casting people :-) They were all sort of, "first day on the job as a used car salesperson." It seems to me it was fine for Michael as Ross to sleep with her, that he was supposed to, since that was a Ross thing to do. But Michael was the one who was overly upset the first time they woke up together, and Michael was leaking through when she said, "You�re not so tough after all." One reason I think he was supposed to sleep with her was that he had to set her up to be curious about the darkroom, to find the book with the pictures twice, and to conclude that her life was in danger. He followed he from bed that last time, and it would have been difficult to get the timing down if they hadn�t been in bed together. Basically, I ditto everything everybody says. But a fine acting exercise by C recorded for us that someone else paid for ;-) Some flicks have NO reason for existence.

(Jana)what was up with the wardrobe they gave her to wear? Oh yesssss, I forgot. I mean, it was low budget and everything, but Salvation Army would have better clothes than that. I vote for Michael in both guises. Each has his charm. If Michael had really been a Ross-like character, smelly scum, then I wouldn't care if he were Adonis (such a typical female, I am.) But that's what I like about C's Michael-as-Ross; there were moments that I did have sympathy for him even before I knew that he wasn't really Ross. When he was shot. A few other times, which were surprising, and totally thanks to C's work. And I can't really say I know much of Michael except at the very end, when he's walking toward her before he gets shot. I don't think the telephone call or the bar booth or the drive or the rocks count, in a way. He was a guy who needed a job. Most people, and especially actors, would have been just as jumpy. The drive and the rocks were in the harassment category, and people tend to react far more to men being sexually violated than women (how many male rapes can you think of, other than Deliverance and the prison movie with Morgan Freeman and Tim Robbins?) Although he did have a gun on him, I got a sense of him as a person, not a job hunter or an object of harassment, at the end. So I like Michael, but I don't know if I'd like him as much if I didn't know he had the capacity for his version of Ross.

(Jana) Michael's American accent. It seemed natural to me. I can't say the same about ATA. The MidWestern twang sounded forced to me... But I thought Michael's voice was right on. Definitely preferred this accent to ATA's. (Evelyn) that second shower scene was worth the five bucks I paid for the vid :-) (Jana) The first one wasn't too bad either! I'd have paid lots more to be the cameraman for the first shower scene. ;-D (Cheryle) If she got the $5000 by pawning the pearls (unlikely but what we�re led to believe) Very true. Would have gotten significantly less than a thousand for those. and he bought them back, then Michael threw his own money away. They both lost a lot. Ross couldn�t have planned the pearl thing since he didn�t know how she�d get the money. Not necessarily. Michael/Ross couldn't have planned it, but Eddie could have. Eddie set her up with Ross and it's likely that she discussed how she would pay for the session. Eddie knew her mannerisms from the ice chewing to the pearl twisting. The fact that she wore those pearls all the time (regardless of appropriate outfit) tells me that they are more than just an accessory. They have deeper meaning. Would a *man* pick up on this? Maybe not, but he is also a bartender and Jamie likes to drink. he has probably cried a lot over her life at the bar and Eddie has heard it all. One reason I think he was supposed to sleep with her was that he had to set her up to be curious about the darkroom...and to conclude that her life was in danger. He followed he from bed that last time, and it would have been difficult to get the timing down if they hadn�t been in bed together. I disagree on this one. Watched that part again yesterday to see if I could pinpoint when Michael turns back into Ross. As they are lying in bed and Michael is upset with himself over sleeping with her and she is pleased with herself for "being in control," he is still Michael. I think you hear it in his voice when he says "I only wanted you to think that." (or something to that effect) There's a desperation there. Definitely not a Ross-type thing. It was all scripted for her to go to the room twice. When he notices she has left the bed, he just turns over on his back and waits. He is relieved in a sense because now the plot is back on course and he becomes Ross again. Could this have been achieved without their being in bed (timing aspect). Sure, why not? She's totally under surveillance in her own bedroom. Michael vs.Ross Definitely Ross. The hair, ladies, the hair!! And the accent, but of course. :)

Cheryl, vi gavarit'e po russki? Davay gavarim i nikto nas nye budet' ponial!:-)

( Cheryle) The wheelchair thing was horrid. Too much S&M posing as a lesson in �not quite sure. I know it was a repulsive scene...but IMO logical in the story line. I saw it like a "initiation to a frat" or a "Marine boot-camp"....degrading, humiliating but necessary for the person (Ross) to absolutely control the other (Jamie) henceforth. He definitely was Ross here.

One of the few things I quite liked was that piano piece Ross persistently played on the piano.

(Cheryle) The wheelchair thing was horrid. Too much S&M posing as a lesson in �not quite sure. (Evelyn)..but IMO logical in the story line. I saw it like a "initiation to a frat" or a "Marine boot-camp"....degrading, humiliating but necessary for the person (Ross) to absolutely control the other (Jamie) henceforth. He definitely was Ross here. Cheryl you made some excellent points about using the wine as the bait. Very cruel for someone who likes to drink. But she's not an alcoholic I think, which would have made it criminally cruel IMO. Liked your analogy, Evelyn, about the initiation aspect. When you're breaking a person, you have to go to the nth degree, push them to their "so-called" limits to get beyond. The only way I can imagine Eddie coming up with all these little games is that the real Ross did them to his wife. BTW, I think Jamie looked better in clown face. :) Her normal look is v. Linda Evangelista to me. Let's talk PEARLS...that's what got me started (and interested in doing PM) when Cheryle posted her first dissection of the story.

(Karen) Let's talk PEARLS... That pearl scene, IMO, is CF's finest hour in this film.He starts slow...builds the crescendo and culminates when he grinds-up the pearls. BTW, when Ross is coming down the stairs to fix her breakfast.... does it remind you of the similar stair descent at Netherfield? Let's talk the ending of PM. Why does she kill the agent? (Not that he didn't deserve it) Did Jamie love Michael? Or did she love Ross?

(Evelyn)Why does she kill the agent? Well, she said what she wanted to get out of her time with Ross was to tell people not to **** with her, �or for people NOT to **** with her (forget which). His main activity seemed to be sticking his hand down her shirt. He was a prime candidate. And he has has her management contract for a year or two more, though he didn�t lift a finger to help her. (Karen) Being Ross Talbot is sort of like a murder mystery dinner. That�s stuck with me ever since you said it and it seems more and more the way I see it now ;-) Definitely preferred this accent to ATA's. Hands down. In ATA he reminded me v. much of...has anyone ever seen "Darien Lambert" (aka Dale Midkiff)of Star Trax "fame". Sci fi syndicated TV show, 3 or 4 seasons of episodes on cable stations. Dale looks similar to Darcy, with brown hair/eyes, but until 10 years into his career was one of the worst actors known to videotape. In the last season of Star Trax he got better, but he'll never make up for his version of Elvis in a made-for-tv movie controlled by Priscilla Presley, no less. I gues there was a whole lotta shakin goin on there. Anyway, what got left of C in ATA--accent, way he moves, etc., is eerily reminiscent of Dale at his best. Poor C. Maybe Dale got better in the past few years. Probably I�m the only person in the universe to relate these two. �she has probably cried a lot over her life at the bar and Eddie has heard it all. No doubt. I keep thinking Ross hired Michael because that was my first impression, but that doesn�t work out with the rest of the totally believable plot. I think you hear it in his voice when he says "I only wanted you to think that." That makes sense. But it wouldn�t have been the end of the world if "Ross" wasn�t supposed to have scruples. Or was it fear of messing up the murder mystery dinner theater? The hair, ladies, the hair!! Absolutely. With that hair, and how he moves in the Michael section he now reminds me of a better-looking Brad Dourif. I adore Brad and he�s one of the best actors in the world (Cuckoo�s Nest, Ragtime�more recently Mississippi Burning, episodes of Millennium and X Files, voice of Chucky the murderous doll in that movie series), but he doesn�t look like C. (Arami)Cheryl, vi gavarit'e po russki? Ach, it�s been sooo long, and was sooo tumultuous. I never wrote without Cyrillic letters�Ezvenetsia, pazhalsta�spaciba bolshoi� I�ll get back to you ;-) piano piece Ross persistently played on the piano. It was nice. I wonder if it�s in the music credits. Never watched the credits �after C dies, what�s the point? J (Karen) Let's talk PEARLS... (Evelyn)That pearl scene, IMO, is CF's finest hour in this film. He starts slow...builds the crescendo and culminates when he grinds-up the pearls. Tell me how far off I am, those of you more familiar with every single scene DB has done: I can�t think of many scenes where he is playing against just one woman in a well-crafted, balanced dramatic scene. The Darcy/Elizabeth scenes are beloved; JA knew those scenes would tell us what we want to know about a man. But nearly all of the other scenes that come to mind when I think of C are of him by himself (AMITC and waiting in the cab in TEP), or him in scenes with many people (in V, breakfast out oors when he urges Cecile�s mother not to marry her to Gercourt, many in H, etc.) In V, he�s often around lots of people. In AZ, he�s not in opposition to his mother, really (fault of the script), and there�s that homoerotic thing happening. CofF, his scene of paying off Nan is short. He doesn�t get a lot of Richard Burton/Elizabeth Taylor stuff, does he? (Karen) Did Jamie love Michael? Or did she love Ross? Did she love anybody? I missed that part. �But she's not an alcoholic I think,� Well, 1) she thinks she shouldn�t drink so much (big hint). 2) Eddie and friends tell her to lay off, and most bartenders don�t say that unless they think you have a problem (based on experience of my reformed alcoholic friends). Eddie tells her this early on, before his scheme. 3) The way she says to the cops (on the phone), I haven�t had a drink in two days! (or all week or whatever)�That�s alcoholic behavior, to be proud of a week without drinking. I do think it�s criminal, but if the pearls can be used for manipulation, why not her alcoholism. BTW, I must admit. The first time I saw PM I really didn�t know if the pearls would get ground up. I thought maybe "Ross" would pull them out later to jerk her around some more (the same way after she shoots him, I thought he would come to her house and we'd find out it was part of the exercise.) But I was kind of glad, in the context of the exercise, the pearls went. If you really want to change, all kinds of things have to go, and that's a good point to make. But I didn't care about them enough bec use I didn�t know I was supposed to until then. I don�t remember a single reference to her mother or the pearls before "Ross" serves them up. On second viewing I see all the hokey close-ups on the pearl twirling, but it still means nothing to me.

The pearls? Well I suppose Michael is playing Ross here at full crescendo - the ultimate sadistic manipulator. Good lesson, yes, but if I hadn't thought Ross was a psycho up to that point, I'd believe it now. Would Michael, as Ross, have turned on the garbage disposal if Jamie had gone in to retrieve the necklace? The big test and I think Michael would have failed. So what's your take on the pearls, Karen? We see Ross wearing glasses in a couple of scenes but never in front of Jamie. Is he Michael then? I know he's always Michael but is he not in character when he's studying her through the monitors? (Evelyn) Did Jamie love Michael? Or did she love Ross? Good question and of course I don't know the answer. I'd think it would have to be Ross. She doesn't know Michael at all unless she falls in love with him on the rocks. ;-) There is a semi-cute scene where we only see Ross after he's done with her makeup. Her back is to us and she's being rather playful with him, tweaking his nose and playfully slapping his face when he calls her "almost perfect". Maybe she was falling in love with him by then. (Karen) Her normal look is v. Linda Evangelista to me. That's it! I think Jamie is kind of pretty though but she's incredibly gawky - not graceful at all. (Evelyn) BTW, when Ross is coming down the stairs to fix her breakfast.... does it remind you of the similar stair descent at Netherfield? But he doesn't give a little hippy hop at the bottom! (Cheryl) I can�t think of many scenes where he is playing against just one woman in a well-crafted, balanced dramatic scene. I have to concede you're right. I thought about it and came up with a fair number such as Mrs. Keach/Birkin in the belfry and Paul Ashworth/Sarah during their fight after the stampede. There are others such as scenes in Master of the Moor and other roles less accessible to us but you've made me realize there aren't a lot of his movies where he plays a dramatic role against a woman.Too bad we have to count this movie as one of them. But if we count this then we have to count 1000 Acres too. I can't believe no one has talked about the shower scenes. Such serious girls we are.

Okay, Heide, you want shower scene. Here ya go: Well they coulda shown him FULL MONTY:-0

(Cheryle)....( Karen) Did Jamie love Michael? Or did she love Ross? I said that, not Karen. (Hate to lay my stupid questions on another person.....sorry, Karen) The reason I alluded to that is because at the end as she is leaning over the fence the voice-over (hers)..."I don't really do this kind of thing..but you remind me of someone...someone I once knew...someone who broke my heart". Then when I viewed it again, I realized those were the lines she was to say in the PM audition. Still, I had the feeling she cared for him in a bizarre sort of way.....(hell, the whole damn thing is bizarre) Motorcycle/ shower scenes. I know this was a low budget film...but does anyone think they used a double for these scenes.? Does CF ride a Harley...he looks the type.(Daring...risk-taker....vis-a vis RF) I know he must shower.....and.....oh -you-know-what-I-mean. I do think Ross had the whole thing scripted right to the end....at first he takes her car keys. Then after she kills Ross,she jumps in the jeep and guess what...the keys are in the ignition. Ross knew exactly what she was going to do. Someone inquired about the music Ross plays on the piano. The credits don't list it...must be original music by a Mark Snow. Anyone else like the scene when he's dancing with her? Sorta' sweet. Has he ever danced in any contemporary film? Mobetta American accent than ATA. LOL at Cheryle's comparison of Jess with the Elvis look-a-like actor. I've looked at this film four times since we started....enough already.

(Evelyn) BTW, when Ross is coming down the stairs to fix her breakfast.... does it remind you of the similar stair descent at Netherfield? I'm just going to have to take another look, but my VCR seems to be stuck on a scene a little earlier. ;-) Why does she kill the agent? (Not that he didn't deserve it) This has always bothered me and is just another indication of what a poor film this is. Granted the agent more than deserved it, but does Jamie think she will get away with this. Here she is--finally successful--this would be after she has made PM--and she throws it all away by killing her scummy agent. Have I missed something? Does the gun she uses have someone else's fingerprints on them? Can't be Eddie's gun? Cops won't believe he rose from the dead to do this one as well. Very dissatisfying end ng and totally unbelievable. Did Jamie love Michael? Or did she love Ross? Again, I find it unbelievable that she would love either. One roll in z'hay and another on z'rocks wouldn't do it, especially since in the latter he was doing it for a job. (Cheryle) He doesn�t get a lot of Richard Burton/Elizabeth Taylor stuff, does he? Taking it down one notch, wouldn't you love to see him in the Giancarlo Giannini role in Swept Away? I know terribly non-PC, but that film keeps popping up in my mind as being a great showcasing role for him. (I haven't seen it but it does strike me as possible that the Anne Heche/Harrison Ford movie might have been an updated version of Lina Wertmueller's classic.) 1) she thinks she shouldn�t drink so much (big hint). 2) Eddie and friends tell her to lay off, and most bartenders don�t say that unless they think you have a problem...3) The way she says to the cops (on the phone), I haven�t had a drink in two days! Good points, Cheryle. Missed those clues. A bartender definitely knows. (Evelyn) Has he ever danced in any contemporary film? There was Dutch Girls, but he's supposed to be a 17-year old in that one and very shy and awkward with the girls. It definitely shows in his slow dance with Romelia. He looks pretty good here. Wouldn't mind swaying to the music with Ross/Michael, no indeedy!! More later.

(Cheryle) On second viewing I see all the hokey close-ups on the pearl twirling, but it still means nothing to me. (Heide) So what's your take on the pearls, Karen? When Cheryle had first mentioned them in her plot outline post I was struck by the symbolism of the pearls. How perfectly they represented the Jamie that had to go for her to be successful as an actor. When you think about pearls, the image is always prim and proper, white gloves, 1950s and '60s graduation pictures in cashmere sweaters. Pearls look warm but are not. Pearls look hard but are not. They can be crushed. I thought about how pearls are created (not the simulated variety). An oyster gets i ritated (natural or cultured--makes no difference) and secretes nacre, which builds up around the foreign object. Jamie has years of another type of protective coating inhibiting her ability to express her emotions. Pearls are never perfect, except those of the simulated variety. They always have flaws. They can also lose their lustre--another component of value. (FYI, the other two are color and size.) The pearl twirling is very typical behavior. I don't know anybody with pearls of a decent length who doesn't play with them. One becomes very attached to them and likes the feel. What has this to do with Jamie, they become an unconscious extension of her. Very valid IMO. (Heide) We see Ross wearing glasses in a couple of scenes but never in front of Jamie. Is he Michael then? How about Michael trying to figure out what Ross would do? Needs help *seeing*? (major groaning, here) :-) she's being rather playful with him, tweaking his nose and playfully slapping his face when he calls her "almost perfect". Maybe she was falling in love with him by then. I remember that one two and it struck me as neither was acting at the time. Seemed way tooooo natural, like we got a peek of Colin. (I know, not possible.) (Evelyn) Hate to lay my stupid questions on another person.....sorry, Karen I'd be more than happy to claim your brilliant question, Evelyn!! ;-) someone...someone I once knew...someone who broke my heart". Maybe she meant Eddie. He really let her down and they did have a relationship of friend to friend (although it was apparent he was trying to make it something more and was rebuffed). A friend's betrayal could lead to a comment like that. I still can't believe she meant either Ross or Michael. No way!! Then when I viewed it again, I realized those were the lines she was to say in the PM audition. Missed that one. So now she's substituting lines from a movie for real life. I've seen that in another movie. Hmmm, which one???? This will kill me until I remember. ...but given that she and Michael were the Playmakers, very appropriate that she uses those lines. Wouldn't you say? Motorcycle/ shower scenes. I know this was a low budget film...but does anyone think they used a double for these scenes.? No way. Love my big new TV. See so much better with it.

(Heide) We see Ross wearing glasses in a couple of scenes but never in front of Jamie. Is he Michael then? I think he is Michael when he is wearing glasses. He wears them in the dark room at the beginning as he sees Jamie approaching the house. Then later in the dark room as he is developing photos. And then at the end when he is reclining on the bed (I like those feet too, Bethan....BIG). Apparently,Michael had a vision deficiency and Ross didn't. Re: Motorcycle/Shower Scenes..used doubles?? (Karen) No way. Gee, I'm glad. I'd hate to think he wasn't riding that motorcycle.....:-))))

Re: Pearls: Thank you Karen, for all the information on pearls....(CF films always lead us to inquire about other topics) Your take on the symbolism is v. logical. But I wonder if the screen writers saw that. I felt that the whole thing was sort of thrown together. BTW in the credits it says that "PM is based on a screenPLAY by blah, blah, blah, AND a Story by blah, blah,blah." How could so many writers come up with a film with so many holes???

Gee, I'm glad. I'd hate to think he wasn't riding that motorcycle.....:-)))) LOL!!! Keep going, ladies......you've really got into this discussion. I never realised PM could be so interesting! I still haven't got any intellectual comment to make. Am still focusing on those elegant (but big) feet!

you've really got into this discussion. I never realised PM could be so interesting Hey, by the time we finish people are going to wonder why it wasn't nominated for an Oscar.

(Evelyn) Hey, by the time we finish people are going to wonder why it wasn't nominated for an Oscar. Apparently,Michael had a vision deficiency and Ross didn't. LOLOLOL!! You're in fine form, Evelyn. But then this film inspires jokes. Karen, dear, leave it up to you to find the symbolism in the pearls. Not that I find fault with your reasoning - an extension of her. She's wearing those "lovely" sweater vests and long dresses (kind of cheap Laura Ashley) in the beginning. After she loses the pearls she's in that little black cocktail dress (not her choice, I know). She becomes quite chic in the end. S-t-r-e-t-c-i-n-g? I'd have to admit I am. After all, she's also quite rich and can afford better clothes. Like Evelyn, I don't think s ch symbolism would even register with the creators of this film. It does seem all thrown together. By the way, even though her clothing is quite awful in the beginning, she sure wears sexy underwear. Many women save theirs for special occasions. Did she want to make sure her stuff matched, just in case? ;-) There, Bethan, that's my intellectual contribution. Come and join us.

(Heide)The pearls?�have turned on the garbage disposal� I can see two scenarios. 1)Ross couldn�t have done it, he�d have been arrested. Rape you can get away with but human sausage-making is a no-no�Alternatively, 2)if he did, he could have claimed to the authorities it was an accident, and there�s no proof otherwise. I think our man would have made decision trees and flow charts and planned his options either way. We see Ross wearing glasses� I�d completely forgotten about the glasses in the control room! It does link them, I suppose, in the mind of the genius who wrote in the pearl-twirling as a significant gesture without making much of it. (As Karen says, playing with long pearls is such a common thing�that�s probably why I didn�t even notice it in a normal viewing.) But now I wonder: what was Michael doing when he wasn�t wearing glasses in the control room: stumbling around blind, or popping in his contacts quick like a bunny? Another hole. we have to count 1000 Acres too. Was there a scene with him at odds with either sister? Forgot. I can't believe no one has talked about the shower scenes. Such serious girls we are. Hard to add to what�s already been said, even though I haven�t read half of it. ;-) I thought I could barely see him bring his right hand down in a possible reflex reaction to, um, protect himself before leaving the glass bricks, and then drop it when he stalks out of the shower, camera tilting up. Orchestration with the cameraperson? I still have to go back and find the navigation coordinates (six blocks down, for blocks across...)I read on an old board (by Karen?) for a Loch Ness-type sighting. Stil one of the biggest laughs of my little life. (Karen)Okay, Heide, you want shower scene. Here ya go: All I have is a big empty space. Am I missing something again? :-( (Evelyn)� those were the lines she was to say in the PM audition. An acting class or another audition, I believe. Those lines were at the very beginning, before she drank so much she got sick and threw up and lay on the bathroom floor and thus found out about PM. (another AA alert I forgot). Still, I had the feeling she cared for him in a bizarre sort of way I could see it. For the Michael as Ross persona : most people want to be drawn out, to have somebody force them to reach into their depths because we�re too chicken to do it ourselves (#1 reason why actors like to act.)(And why S&M is more profitable than extreme sports or dieting.) Given that Michael/Ross wasn�t as slimy as Ross/Ross probably would have been, she could have cared for him until she thought he was going to kill her. Then, when Michael is killed and she kills Eddie and she has time to r flect on the past knowing that Michael was a pawn and she got him killed, �..well, they did share things, and there are few things as mystically attractive to me as a fab interlude that you can never have again. Motorcycle/ shower scenes. I know this was a low budget film...but does anyone think they used a double for these scenes.? I�d guess for part of the motorcycle scene, because the insurance on him for the film would have been less. But I remember thinking the same thing and there�s one rip-roaring shot where it had to be him (reminded me of him on a galloping horse :-). For the shower pas de deux, definitely. It really struck me the second time�their voices against unrealistic visuals. For some of her positions she would have had to be standing on a box, and the people in the shower don't move like our stars. But I guess that�s artistic license for ya. Colin wouldn't have done it, since with his professional stature he wouldn't have had to and we KNOW how much this flick meant to him. Someone inquired about the music Ross plays on the piano. The credits don't list it...must be original music by a Mark Snow. I missed the composer (can we give her a prize, Heide or Nan?), but I did discover that the only thing he plays is the ragtime/silent film type music to accompany the famous wheelchair scene. The piece I think we�re referring to is a theme (their theme) that gets repeated, and probably was original. Anyone else like the scene when he's dancing with her? Adored it. �Jess with the Elvis look-a-like actor. Never repeat never watch "My Life With Elvis." However, one day soon I�ll post some pictures of Dale and take a vote. You won�t be a able to judge how they move, which is really the main characteristic that�s similar, but why not. (Karen)Why does she kill the agent?� gun she uses have someone else's fingerprints on them? � I still think it�s because 1)the one thing she told Michael/Ross she wanted was to tell people not to **** with her any more. This she was telling the agent, when she said she didn�t need him. As she said, he was a liar and manipulator and rapist. 2) He had her under contract for 2 more years. She�s assuming his out-of-the way office ("small little man in a corner office", repeating his lie about why he "didn�t" know about PM auditions) is a safe place for a murder�she hasn�t returned his "300 calls", no one saw her come or go ("no secretary"). She was wearing lace gloves, which I assume protect one when one murders. The gun? I just think the whole thing, beginning with her stalking of Michael, was to show us that she had gotten her $5000 worth, that she would fight back and wasn�t mousy any more, knew what she wanted, knew what she was feeling, wouldn't stop at anything, don't trust (lessons 1,2,3,4, whatever). Agree, v. sloppy, but let�s assume she had a brilliant plan. Taking it down one notch, wouldn't you love to see him in the Giancarlo Giannini role in Swept Away? I know terribly non-PC, Oooooh, coooool! How would he/they do it? Who would he play against? It would be casting against type, CF as a glowering lower class cabana boy. You�d lose the whole political context Wertmuller soaked it in, so the conversations would have to change to keep Americans interested and to bring it up to date to keep it politico-sexual. Who should play against him? What a great little casting exercise for subway rides and other forced down time. Excellent notion. Can we get the rights? ;-) Aram , can this be our first project? No floor sweeping for you, my dear. We'll need all hands on deck for this one! symbolism of the pearls. How perfectly they represented the Jamie that had to go for her to be successful as an actor. �of her. Very valid IMO. How lovely! I agree with many comments below that if these filmmakers got anything right, it was probably an accident. But there are subconscious reasons why even stupid people think of things. I think yes, pearls are v. Old Jamie and a lesson to us all :-) (Evelyn)someone...someone I once knew...someone who broke my heart". (Karen) Maybe she meant Eddie. He really let her down and they did have a relationship of friend to friend (although it was apparent he was trying to make it something more and was rebuffed). A friend's betrayal could lead to a comment like that. I still can't believe she meant either Ross or Michael. No way!! I took it to mean that�s another reason why she killed (Secret)Agent Man. "I once knew (Eddie)� Blah blah broke my heart�" Or also it was an ignorant superficial attempt at circularity (start with these words, end with these words, see how far she�s come and nobody's ever gonna think twice about THIS movie, the director says to himself....). (Heide) We see Ross wearing glasses in a couple of scenes but never in front of Jamie. Is he Michael then? (Evelyn)��And then at the end when he is reclining on the bed � Really? Right before he goes down to threaten her with the knife? (Evelyn)Re: Motorcycle/Shower Scenes..used doubles?? (Karen) No way. (Evelyn) Gee, I'm glad. I'd hate to think he wasn't riding that motorcycle.....:-)))) Really...�I'm still worried about their insurance costs... (Evelyn)Thank you Karen, for all the information on pearls....(CF films always lead us to inquire about other topics) Thank goodness he doesn�t do chop socky or car chase movies...Actually, you could probably give us Colin's grocery list and license plate and we could make something of it. I know a funny story about this involving Truffaut(who was a critic before he was a director) and Hitchcock), but I don't need to tell it because we are in the process of doing that very thing ourselves ;-) (bethan)LOL!!! Keep going, ladies......you've really got into this discussion. I never realised PM could be so interesting! I still haven't got any intellectual comment to make. Am still focusing on those elegant (but big) feet! (Evelyn)Hey, by the time we finish people are going to wonder why it wasn't nominated for an Oscar. ROTFLOL! (Heide)Karen, dear, leave it up to you to find the symbolism in the pearls. Not that I find fault with your reasoning - an extension of her. She's wearing those "lovely" sweater vests and long dresses (kind of cheap Laura Ashley) in the beginning. After she loses the pearls she's in that little black cocktail dress (not her choice, I know). She becomes quite chic in the end. S-t-r-e-t-c-i-n-g? I'd have to admit I am. After all, she's also quite rich and can afford better clothes. Like Evelyn, I don't hink such symbolism would even register with the creators of this film. It does seem all thrown together. Is she rich? I thought she was broke, which is why the soap opera coma was paying the rent and she had to pawn her pearls to pay for the "coaching." The video box says "�down to her last dollar�" or something like that. But then these video boxes have pictures and scenes that don�t even exist in the movie�. By the way, even though her clothing is quite awful in the beginning, she sure wears sexy underwear. Many women save theirs for special occasions. Did she want to make sure her stuff matched, just in case? ;-) There, Bethan, that's my intellectual contribution. Way to go Heide! A glaring error! Totally absurd, that underwear with what we�re supposed to think about her.. Male director again. They just love that librarian-is-really-a-stripper idea.

OH NO! Italic hell!

(Evelyn) How could so many writers come up with a film with so many holes??? Sometimes that's the reason. You know the one about 'too many cooks...' ;-) Hey, by the time we finish people are going to wonder why it wasn't nominated for an Oscar. You mean it wasn't!! Coulda knocked me over with a feather! ;-o (Bethan) Am still focusing on those elegant (but big) feet! Always good to go with one's strengths, I always say. And you're so good at focusing on....things! :) (Heide) she sure wears sexy underwear. Many women save theirs for special occasions. Did she want to make sure her stuff matched, just in case? ;-) Too funny. And I thought we had noticed just about everything there was. ;-) Like Evelyn, I don't think such symbolism would even register with the creators of this film. It does seem all thrown together. Absolutely, I hope no one here think that the pearl symbolism was meant to be intentional. That's just what occurred to me and seemed totally appropriate to the character. Yeah, they probably stumbled into it. (Cheryle) For the shower pas de deux, definitely. (snip) Colin wouldn't have done it, since with his professional stature he wouldn't have had to and we KNOW how much this flick meant to him. So it's your opinion that Colin wouldn't do the second shower scene, but he did do the first one. He also stripped down on the rocks. How is the second shower scene any different? It's not like they actually showed him doing any hard core pornographic acts. Who should play against him? What a great little casting exercise for subway rides and other forced down time. Excellent notion. Can we get therights? ;-) Whoa honey!! I claim rights to be executive producer. Casting the Mariangela Melato role has been giving me nightmares. Rewatched the film last night as hadn't since it played in theaters, and found that it was more S&Mish than I remembered. Colin's "18-year" rants would work very well in the part. Of course the political commentary would have to be updated. Actually, you could probably give us Colin's grocery list and license plate and we could make something of it. I know a funny story about this involving Truffaut(who was a critic before he was a director) and Hitchcock), but I don't need to tell it because we are in the process of doing that very thing ourselves ;-) Don't worry, dearie, on this trashola movie, it's all in fun. BTW, do you have his grocery list? I'll take a crack at it later. ;-D

Arami, can this be our first project? No floor sweeping for you, my dear. We'll need all hands on deck for this one! Cheryl, have I been promoted now? Bless you! And let's go to it! (Karen) 'too many cooks...' ;-) Are you sure it's the right spelling? ;-)

(Karen) 'too many cooks...' ;-) (Arami) Are you sure it's the right spelling? ;-) LOL!

(Karen) 'too many cooks...' ;-) (Arami) Are you sure it's the right spelling? ;-) LOL! ] I don't get it.

(Karen) 'too many cooks...' ;-) (Arami) Are you sure it's the right spelling? ;-) LOL! ] I don't get it. Think "rooster", Laura. ;-)

(Karen)So it's your opinion that Colin wouldn't do the second shower scene, but he did do the first one. He also stripped down on the rocks. How is the second shower scene any different? It's not like they actually showed him doing any hard core pornographic acts. Most actors hate doing love scenes, and despise sex scenes. (Famously, even porn stars have to be high to begin.) Unless it's absolutely necessary for the shot (like in TEP when ?Katherine? gets into the tub with that homewrecker Baron), they get a body double. Same with insert shots (Michael/Ross's hand throwing the pearls into the disposal, which BTW was shot wrong--it's his left hand when it should be his right hand, and v. jarring. A production doesn�t waste an actor's time unless they�re idiots. The "closeup of hand throwing pearls into disposal" shot and the "closeup of finger on disposal button" might be, for example, somebody in wardrobe's hand. The bodies in the shower scene could be the two stand-ins for all we know. (Stand-ins, surprisingly enough, stand in for stars during the long hot tiresome process of setting up the lights for each shot. They should resemble the actor in height and coloring.) Bottom line is, you don't waste anybody�s energy when somebody further down the food chain could do it for you cheaper. Also, I don't know if it was a union picture, but the two squirming bodies could have been paid only as extras. It's possible we even saw them later, clothed, in the Callback Bar. If these two actors had spoken, and if it were a union picture (which it probably was), the extras would have been bumped up the pay scale to "day players", and gotten paid more. So the producer probably used two anonymous bodies they had already rented to go with two voices: Colin and Jenifer's Another thing to consider: I remember reading on these boards somewhere one of you quoting C on just this subject, something about "bums going up and down." :-) If anyone would invoke his right to a double, he would have. (Oh no. Sorry ladies! I just realized I might be disappointing people.) He had to come out of the first shower scene, to intimidate Jamie. Then he had to take it off on the rocks, because Michael is being humiliated. The nudity was necessary for the story (hey Nan, it could have been worse: a bad movie with NO extra C for your viewing pleasure ;-). I hope no one here think that the pearl symbolism was meant to be intentional. Geez, Karen, no time to be modest. I sent it to someone at Film Comment and he wants you to do freelance work! I claim rights to be executive producer. As well you should, you genius. That means you find the money? Does the saga of this production go on one of the existing boards or do we need another one ;-). Can I be one of the writers (non-credited is fine) and director? I'll look around to see if I can find the script so we can get started. BTW, do you have his grocery list? Me and my big mouth. All I'll say is, they need to be eating more fruits and vegetables. (Arami)Cheryl, have I been promoted now? Bless you! And let's go to it! I knew we could count on you! And hey, you're the one who wanted to do the floors. (You think we don't see that with broom, you have an excuse to go anywhere at any time. I'll bet you have a French maid's outfit too, knowing C's predilection for "foreign" women. ;-)) Speak to Boss Karen, but I hope you take another position. You can still wear the outfit. Are you sure it's the right spelling? ;-) LOL!!! I�m stealing your new and improved proverb. I�m sure this was the original form of it. ;-D

Knock, knock ... may I come in? I intended to go through your previous PM discussion first, but didn't get the time to do so -at least not through the whole thing, just the beginning - and as Evelyn pleased me so forceful to come over from #97 and join ... here I am. But I have to warn you, I'm not only ignorant of what you've posted till now, I even haven't re-watched PM before writing this ... and at that, as I'm 'foreign' it isn't too unlikely that there are always some details and nuances which may escape me, so, please don't regard my comments with a too critical eye. Oh, of course you can correct me, never mind another point of view, of course not, quite the contrary, I'd like to be put on the right way. All right, that's enough of that 'preface' stuff, let's get going! (CherylE) Michael would also have been through all these acting classes and exercises before, and because he isn't doing so well in the business could relish the role of the sadistic master instead of village idiot. Like your comments, Cheryl, but can't follow you there. The main problem I have with this movie, or more with it's plot, is, that it escapes me, how an actor with poor acting abilities - as Colin is introduced as Michael at the end - should be able to replace (i.e. to *act* like) someone who is so completely different to him for such a long time - OK, he takes some 'breaks' as e.g. in the scissors scene, but still, such a long time. And re. 'those acting classes and exercises': Ross Talbert, the 'r al' one, is described as a class of his own, sort of 'guru'. And I suppose Michael 'only' has studied at one 'out of the usual catalogue', otherwise he wouldn't have such difficulties to get casted. But I may be wrong with all this. Eddie might have given him *the* script, the one which enabled even a poor actor to act his (and the audience's) socks off. Seems not to be too likely from my point of view, after all, Eddie is 'only' the bartender (sorry, no offend to any bartender, they might be the best wri ers of all IRL) And for the 'relish the role of sadistic master' thing, I cant' imagine a Michael character to do this. I imagine him to feel ill at ease in the sadistic role, hardly able to disguise his indisposition from his audience. Don't forget, it isn't really theatre, because Jamie doesn't play a role there, Jamie is real and I think he must be aware of this from the beginning. But my point of view may be a bit a 'black and white' one. I do not know any actor personally, but they are sometim s said to be quite ... um, how can I put it ... don't find the right word ... different, unusual .. whatever .. . what I'm driving at is, that there might be a remote possibility that it really is the role of his lifetime. While thinking about this another thought occurs to me: All those psychological things Michael as Ross knows about Jamie - I could imagine the 'real' RT to be able to seize Jamie's weaknesses and problems at first sight. But I do have difficulties either to consider Michael being able to seize them in that way or - even more unlikely for me - to imagine Eddie giving him such a detailed and sensitive description/script, that enabled Michael to make such an apt analysis of Jamie's (here above all I'm thinki g about that pearl necklace/mother thing). (Heide) He had fooled me anyway. I think the one who fooled us is Colin, not Michael. Sorry, but I can't help feeling, that there is a gap in the plot, that is not to be closed by what they are giving us with that movie. (Laura) I think I definitely like this movie better whilst drunk. Great idea! I'll try that the next time 'll watch PM, perhaps it gives me the final clue. Break. ... got to get some wine before re-watching PM ...

I compliment you ladies for such an extensive discussion on perhaps my least favorite CF movie! Of course, we always welcome nude scenes. I would like to join the film crew too, maybe you need a European coordinator? How about it producer?

(Moon) I compliment you ladies for such an extensive discussion on perhaps my least favorite CF movie! Hey Moon, we didn't say it was our favorite. Most of us rank it way down there. But in any film discussion this gang really gives it their best shot. BTW thanks Kirsten for jumping it. You gave us lots of good analysis there. I shall let Cheryle answer your comments since you directed them to her. But this is what we want to hear from everyone. It doesn't have to be academic....or even complimentary in content. Most of us are amenable. And when we're not it's usually a cultural difference I find. With several countries represented there's bound to be differences of opinions which we respect. We do have Freedom of Speech...but it does not mean license to indulge in personal abuses or ridicule. So there....all you lurkers....let's heah' from youse!! (Aw shuddup,Evelyn)

(Cheryl) for a Loch Ness-type sighting When you or anyone else spots Nessie, tell Bethan and she will show you the secret *hand shake* known only to an elite few. ;-D Stand-ins, surprisingly enough, stand in for stars during the long hot tiresome process of setting up the lights for each shot. Very true. I've seen it when the crews have been around here on location. I've never seen a more boring and tedious process. He had to come out of the first shower scene, to intimidate Jamie. Intimidate??? Not the word I'd use. ;-) As well you should, you genius. Already sucking up! OK, you get to be director and will collaborate on the script. Was thinking (if Renate doesn't mind) of using Topic #85 to discuss the project. Will need an assistant (first things, first) capable of juggling more than two balls in the air simultaneously. I'm only capable of doing two. Strike that. Will honor long-standing Hollywood tradition and have two assistants. One to do the work and one to follow me around (will be total chauvinist and hire a male for latter role). Have dea for updating of story that will still anger most feminists, but will work. (Kirsten) (Knock, knock ... may I come in? Absolutely. We love to hear all sorts of opinions and other nonclassifiable stuff here. For someone who hasn't intently studied this classic of the silver screen, you've made some excellent observations. I imagine him to feel ill at ease in the sadistic role, hardly able to disguise his indisposition from his audience. Don't forget, it isn't really theatre, because Jamie doesn't play a role there, Jamie is real and I think he must be aware of this from the beginning. But Michael doesn't know that anyone is going to be killed. At the end, he is very surprised at that. For money, desperate people will do all sorts of things. We don't know how this was explained to Michael. It could have been explained as an elaborate joke on an old friend, an acting test for a very important part, who knows. He had a job and was given a detailed script and some general guidelines for how the scenario was likely to be played out. As an actor he would be fairly proficient in improv, so he should be able to respond to slight changes in the *script* (Kirsten) Sorry, but I can't help feeling, that there is a gap in the plot, that is not to be closed by what they are giving us with that movie. Jillions of gaps. Agreed. And a million mistakes, gaffes, etc. Love it when everyone finds more errors in this film. This could be quite a new game. Wrong hand shot, huh, Cheryl? (Moon) Of course, we always welcome nude scenes. ...with open arms. ;-) I would like to join the film crew too, maybe you need a European coordinator? How about it producer? Coordinator of what??? Hey, when has that ever mattered. We'll talk later on 85 when Colin's agent (that's you, Renate) gets him to sign on the dotted line. (Evelyn) Most of us rank it way down there. Way down there. But that should stop us from talking about it. Should it? ;-D (Aw shuddup,Evelyn) Who said that? ;-D

Okay, make way for the intellectual heavyweight.....I actually have something to contribute and (guess what!) it's about the second shower scene! Cheryl, you don't mean to say I've spent all those hours and hours and hours of close study...for a stand-in!!! No way, it is Him. My sixth sense tells me so. And it looks like him anyway, even through the fuzzy glass! A slight diversion from PM (but please all keep on track!). I've just watched part of the first episode of the miniseries of "The Shining" on TV....the role that Colin turned down. A sensible choice, I think. You just can't follow the movie..it's all been done. But, strangely, the actor who played Jack rather resembled (IMHO) CF as Michael. And isn't Pat Hingle in ATA? OK, back to those fuzzy glass panes..!!

OK, back to those fuzzy glass panes..!! A "stand-in" ?? What a job.....!!! Oh well...somebody's gotta do it :-))) I'm with you Bethan.....Hate to think the guy in the shower is not Ross!! Time to give the Navigation Coordinates for Shower Scene #2. " Loch Ness-Sighting."... LOLROF Are we gonna talk about feet?You're on Bethan... How about The Rock Scene for Monday.......

(Karen) Will need an assistant (first things, first) capable of juggling more than two balls in the air simultaneously. Groan! Sorry, sorry, I shouldn't have let my mind even go there but that's what this movie does to me. Great catch, Cheryl, with the right hand/left hand garbage disposal scene. Makes me almost want to re-watch though I'm waiting for Bethan's explicit instructions for the shower scene. Logically, I know you're right, Cheryl, but it's fun anyway. (Kirstin)for the 'relish the role of sadistic master' thing, I can't imagine a Michael character to do this. I imagine him to feel ill at ease in the sadistic role, hardly able to disguise his indisposition from his audience. I completely agree. True, he doesn't know anyone will be killed but he still has to play the role of someone easily interpreted as a sadist (from Eddie's point of view). Lesson #1, making her walk blindfolded through the house and letting her fall down the stairs. Lesson #2, threatening to grind her hand or her pearls in the disposal. Lesson #3, the make-up/wheelchair scene. I use this to bolster my contention that Michael can not be a lousy actor if he can make us believe he's Ross just some people n the film tell us he is. (Cheryl) Is she rich? I thought she was broke Sorry, must explain myself. I meant, when talking about Jamie's clothing, that she had money only at the end after she was an ACTRESS! and she started dressing better. It was a stupid point of mine though. I can't believe we've gotten so many good points out of this discussion though. Evelyn, you're doing a terrific job keeping us in line. The rocks scene next? Could be fun.

Hey just wondering... if there are any lurkers out there, why don't you come and post what you think about this discussion. It would be nice to get some fresh perspectives on what we are talking about. This is NOT an exclusive club at all!!!! Laura Trying to market the place:)

(Laura) if there are any lurkers out there, why don't you come and post what you think about this discussion. It would be nice to get some fresh perspectives on what we are talking about Do you mean "what you think about PM?" or "what (content) we are discussing?" If it's the latter..... Laura....that's known as" setting yourself up". I don't go for this "sensitivity workshop" stuff. We have had a good time discussing, or I should say "dissecting", this film....given it more time than it deserves.I am not going to hang out there and have lots of people tell me what a damn fool I am..... I know that

(Cheryl) I thought I could barely see him bring his right hand down in a possible reflex reaction to, um, protect himself before leaving the glass bricks, and then drop it when he stalks out of the shower, camera tilting up. Orchestration with the cameraperson? Cheryl dear, I must thank you for yet another excuse to watch that scene again. All in the cause of thorough film analysis, don't you know.

I've just re-watched PM and here's what striked me: The photo shooting at the beginning: Why had it been directed in that way, rather 'action like', with short cuts, all the flash lights and him thus shouting? Obviously to create some excitement, but in the rest of the movie they've produced the threatening, excitement producing moments in a more restrained way, rather with the choice of music than by the acting of the protagonists, or the way they've cut the scenes. First showering: Why is she surprised finding him in the shower? She must have heard the running water while approaching. (But, admittedly, I didn't catch, what she is saying while entering the bathroom) The 'shopping' story: It's her choice there, but why did she chose something that doesn't suit her? Wouldn't one usually take something correspondent to one's type, or to the type one wiches to be? But surely nothing to feel ill at ease with, no? (Heide) ... after he's done her make up ... she's been rather playful with him ... may be she was falling in love with him then. IMO her behviour there doesn't fit in with the rest. I'd say you show such gestures only to someone you know well, someone who's close to you. And I think that's not the case with J and M/R (Evelyn) Did Jamie love Michael? Or did she love Ross? Neither M nor R, I'd say. That's why: Jamie says after the thing with the wheelchair: 'I want to tell people to stop fucking with me.' and then - another contradiction in the movie - just after that she makesM/R to do exactly that. I can't imagine her doing is motivated by love. She asks him 'What do you want, Ross?', that implies to me, that she is only trying to please him, to answer his demands. And she's tempting him just in the moment, when she is realising that he's losing control (as she admits later on). She starts by saying 'Let's pl y.', i.e. act = pretend, and then, 'What are you feeling, Ross, you have to know, what you're feeling.' Why would she say that -exactly what he asked her to start lesson no.1 -, if not to show, that she's only 'playing a game', acting in a play, where now she's the master. Why is he always wearing different clothes , whereas she hasn't even brought one thing to change for the whole weekend? (CherylE) What was Michael doing, when he wasn't wearing his glasses in the control room ... stumbling around blind ... another hole. He doesn't only take off his glasses to play Ross. Even as Michael he isn't always wearing them - noticed, he doesn't wear the glasses on the rocks, but before, in the car. And for the stumbling: Not everyone wearing glasses is as blind without them as to be unable to trace his way (as I know well out of my own experience) So, not necessarily another hole:-) (Evelyn) Hey, by the time we finish, people are going to wonder why it wasn't nominated fo an Oscar. LOL!!! BTW, has qnybody ever tried to hide in a grand piano? As always with PM: more questions than answers.

(Karen) Will need an assistant (first things, first) capable of juggling more than two balls in the air simultaneously. (Heide)Groan! Sorry, sorry, I shouldn't have let my mind even go there but that's what this movie does to me. ROTFLMAO! She forgets that for once she won�t need more than two...;-) one to follow me around (will be total chauvinist and hire a male for latter role) Absolute boy toy, as is your right and obligation. But if he could spell well enough to get our lunch orders right, that would be a plus. when Colin's agent (that's you, Renate) gets him to sign on the dotted line. Well, we�re a virtual production company (Virtual Productions?); we�re getting virtual positions; maybe Renate could get a virtual contract? I bet she�ll have outrageous demands on his behalf, and I can�t wait to see them. Negotiate well for us, fearless leader! Pretend we�re also considering Rupert Graves or somebody else you fancy. (Moon Dreams)would like to join the film crew too, maybe you need a European coordinator? How about it producer? (Karen)Coordinator of what??? Oh, I�m sure we�ll need to shoot a great deal in Europe. How could it be Swept Away Revisited otherwise? But Moon, you don�t want to be stuck in an office doing paperwork. Go for European production manager, or if you don�t want to work that hard, work with the lighting or camera people(1st Assistant Director?). Then you�re always around for every shot. If you�re totally selfish, you could be in charge of hair and makeup ;-) But you�d have to be more professional than poor Bridget at her interview. Intimidate??? Not the word I'd use. ;-) Well, Jamie thought he was scary. If she�d known he was really Darcy, we might have had a worthwhile movie on our hands. (Karen) Logically, I know you're right, Cheryl, but it's fun anyway. (bethan) No way, it is Him. My sixth sense tells me so (heide)I'm waiting for Bethan's explicit instructions for the shower scene. I�m with Bethan�s sixth sense on this. If the world ran logically, there would be no movie business at all, and we would not know Him. Because there are movies, it is Him. (Moon) Of course, we always welcome nude scenes. (Karen)...with open arms. ;-) Quite open to them ;-). (Evelyn)How about The Rock Scene for Monday....... I probably won�t be online Monday, so I�m asking my question now. He really is good there, once you get over the fact that it�s Colin and we�d be on his side even if he had been the murderer. Do you think people who are not yet enamored of DB cringe as much as we do in reaction to that scene?. I know anyone with an IQ higher than her age would know it�s an implausible scene, but do you think they�re embarrassed for him? I think he wisely makes the character sympathetic, but wonder if anyone else has s ientific data on this�perhaps a drinking buddy�s reaction when you haven�t told them the ending yet? (Kirstin)for the 'relish the role of sadistic master' thing, I can't imagine a Michael character to do this. I imagine him to feel ill at ease in the sadistic role, hardly able to disguise his indisposition from his audience. (Karen)I completely agree. True, he doesn't know anyone will be killed but he still has to play the role of someone easily interpreted as a sadist (from Eddie's point of view). Lesson #1, making her walk blindfolded through the house and letting her fall down the stairs. Lesson #2, threatening to grind her hand or her pearls in the disposal. Lesson #3, the make-up/wheelchair scene. I use this to bolster my contention that Michael can not be a lousy actor if he can make us believe he's Ross just some peopl in the film tell us he is. Acting exercises get awful intense sometimes. All the questions and attitudes "Ross" has would be second nature to any actor who�s been taking classes for, say, one to two years, almost no matter what style of training (Meisner, Method, Hagen, etc.). It�s a little disconcerting to have someone flash a camera in your face and shout at you when you don�t know them, true. But the question, "What are you feeling?," for starters--he would have been asked that (put on the spot) as often as customers ask a wa ter to bring them things. If you�re in a scene, "you�ve got to know what you�re feeling"�to know how to know what you feel (as opposed to what you think, and be honest with yourself and with the scene); to broaden the range of things you can feel (we�re all blocked); to know how to convey your feelings in this context, and so on. People are forever shrieking and hitting each other and simulating sex and spitting on each other and ripping clothes and all sorts of things in exercises, scene st dies and rehearsals. Acting teachers (and directors) are generally imperious, so all Michael would really have to do, throughout the weekend, is ape what he�s seen. Tough to sustain it, true, and that�s one of the main stupidities of the film. But as Karen says, he isn�t necessarily a bad actor. He could have been bad in the audition because 1)Most actors audition badly, even great ones; 2)The casting people could have run the audition stupidly(happens 9 times out of 10); 3)he could have had a bad day 4)He�d just had a rather bizarre weekend and found himself attached to a woman he could never approach again. For starters. Lessons 1 and 3 could easily be standard things Ross has in his bag of tricks (maybewithout the wheelchair because of course he didn�t have it until Eddie made it necessary.) We�ve said we don�t believe the acoustics could have been good enough to trick her, but the content of the monologue (on first acquaintance) would work for most actors and could have been Ross� (bimbo wife told Eddie the gist of it, and Eddie�s heard this rap from everyone at his "Callback Bar"(get it?)). Or Michael and Eddie could have cooked up the exact content. Either way, the words and the difficulty of following the sound would have been engaging enough to have an actor not notice the questionable Doppler effects. I could really see falling down the stairs (trust and don�t trust) and makeup/you're beautiful (sans wheelchair) being standard routines, and Michael improv-ing (improvising) the rest. Everyone has enough buried rage. Guys are always better at acting that out than women *sigh*.

(Karen)But Michael doesn't know that anyone is going to be killed. Yes, but don't you think, it's quite tough to make her belief, she really has killed him? But it's perhaps all explained with Cheryl's interesting 'lesson' about acting classes. And, Karen, I absolutely agree, We don't know how this was explained to Michael. I think that's the main problem, they don't give us any background information, or very poor, that's why the plot is lacking coherence. Cheryl, did I really say Michael is a lousy actor? What I meant to say is, he is introduced to us as a poor one by stating, he's a nobody, only some off-off broadway stuff blabla, they want to make us believe it. But I think we can't really judge because we never see him acting, except as Ross. And that we can't finally judge because of the lacking background information. Therefore we can't judge whether it's only Colin acting as Ross or Michael. (Any sense?????)

( Kirsten) Cheryl, did I really say Michael is a lousy actor No, I did...about a week ago..initially . Any guy that can stand Jamie for three days and keep up the sadistic pace has to be better than I thought. (Kirsten) First showering: Why is she surprised finding him in the shower? She must have heard the running water while approaching. I thought she was surprised when he came out of the shower" in the full monty." But what I want to know is why does Ross appear while she is taking a shower. Then the camera goes to the glass blocks wall and when it comes back, Ross has suddently disappeared. Is there a R/M moment there.?(Without the glasses) Thanks for the rock scene question & analysis, Cheryle. It might be difficult for anyone to get on tomorrow. So we'll keep rock scene on for a few days.

I don't think Jamie loved Michael or Ross; Michael fell in love w/ Jamie.

(Karen) But what I want to know is why does Ross appear while she is taking a shower. Then the camera goes to the glass blocks wall and when it comes back, Ross has suddently disappeared. Is there a R/M moment there.?(Without the glasses) Good question - was that Ross or Michael? Ross because he wanted her to sense he was always watching her or Michael because he thinks she's just a terrific girl and he wants to ask her for a date ;-D ? As for the other shower scene, Ross leaves the room and five seconds later we hear the water and five seconds after that Jamie finds him already undressed, in the shower, and very wet. And I don't think the bathroom was that far away from the dining room or else that house has awfully thin walls. (Kirstin) BTW, has anybody ever tried to hide in a grand piano? And without making a sound too!! Also as an aside, if Michael was considered to be a 3rd-rate actor, maybe someone should have advised him to switch careers to music. How convenient that he could play the piano so well. (Karen) It might be difficult for anyone to get on tomorrow. So we'll keep rock scene on for a few days. Oh dear, I see what you mean. Well, if we can't get on the Internet tomorrow, blame it on the "bipartisan" judicial committee. (Hope that wasn't too controversial.)

I am re-posting Cheryle's rock scene question and comments..since she included it among other comments. And we said we would direct our comments on this scene today. Evelyn)How about The Rock Scene for Monday....... I probably won�t be online Monday, so I�m asking my question now. He really is good there, once you get over the fact that it�s Colin and we�d be on his side even if he had been the murderer. Do you think people who are not yet enamored of DB cringe as much as we do in reaction to that scene?. I know anyone with an IQ higher than her age would know it�s an implausible scene, but do you think they�re embarrassed for him? I think he wisely makes the character sympathetic, but wonder if anyone else has scien ific data on this �perhaps a drinking buddy�s reaction when you haven�t told them the ending yet?

( Cheryle) Do you think people who are not yet enamored of DB cringe as much as we do in reaction to that scene.......do you think they�re embarrassed for him? I thought about this while I was watching The President's video tape today. I am not a fan of Bill's.....but I was embarassed for him. I think this is an individual perception. I hate to see people humiliated...even those who brought it on themselves. Even if I was not an avid fan of CF (Colin for President!!). I would still cringe and dispise this scene. I know she is trying to get revenge, but I failed to see the logic of the scene in the story...except for a titillating effect. I agree that he puts on a terrific performance....but when the director asks him...."what do you feel, Michael"....I bet he didn't have to hesitate to feign embarassment.

(Cheryle) Oh, I�m sure we�ll need to shoot a great deal in Europe. How could it be Swept Away Revisited otherwise? But Moon, you don�t want to be stuck in an office doing paperwork. Go for European production manager, or if you don�t want to work that hard, work with the lighting or camera people(1st Assistant Director?). Then you�re always around for every shot. Thanks Cheryle, I would love to be 1st A.D. I never thought to be stuck in an office, c'est pas moi! And I speak several languages so I can be the trait d'union with the European crew. I am also v.v.g. with pampering actors. When will we start meeting and where? The rock scene was I imagine very humiliating to do. I remember reading that Colin made films he'd rather forget just to be in LA and close to his son Will. To think that he'd done Apt.O (which was so good), and then this!

Am going to catch up on the great discussion that's been going on over the past two days. Wow!! This is some great movie to generate such discussion...one would think. Hey, Swept Away Revisited doesn't have to be set in Europe. Had another location in mind.

Come now producer, we could all use a European working vacation. Swept Away was filmed in Sardinia and now with huricane George ravaging the Caribbean, where, could you possibly have in mind? We do want water right? The swim, the white shirt? The long hair? AHHH! The thought just drives me wild!

I'm taking the Swept Away II discussion over to Topic 85.

(Evelyn) I don't go for this "sensitivity workshop" stuff. (snip) I am not going to hang out there and have lots of people tell me what a damn fool I am.....I know that Am still rolling on the floor laughing at this one. People here must think I'm nuts. Evelyn, you are a stitch!! :-D (Evelyn) Time to give the Navigation Coordinates for Shower Scene #2. (Heide) I'm waiting for Bethan's explicit instructions for the shower scene. Hallelujah!! I've found them. Knew I had them around here somewhere. Bethan's step-by-step instructions may be found at Topic 59, Response 110. Here we go: ****** OK, I've got the house, computer, VCR all to myself, so here goes. Playmaker, second shower scene, let me talk you through it. And CONCENTRATE!! Ready..He's in the shower, first of all he's on the right, she's on the left. She turns back to the shower screen. He turns so he's on the left, she's on the right. Then HE's on the right, she's on the left. AND THEN.. (NOW REALLY CONCENTRATE HERE!! HE is in a crouching position but rises until his head is level with hers, kisses her, turns slightly and places his hand on her rear. At this precise mini-second, JUST BEFORE he turns (AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! don't look at the level of his face, look at the level of his, ermm, waist. Focus directly on the bottom row of full glass panels visible on your screen, third panel from your right. Just a very, very fleeting glimpse, but I see clearly, almost hard (!), evidence that he is rather enjoying the scene!!!! Now tell me I am seeing what I think I'm seeing?!! Demolish my fantasies if you can! And no, I don't have defective eyesight or an overactive imagination....:-) Nor do I have the one and only unexpurgated version of PM! ******** (Cheryl) I thought I could barely see him bring his right hand down in a possible reflex reaction to, um, protect himself before leaving the glass bricks (Jana) Cheryl dear, I must thank you for yet another excuse to watch that scene again. Agreed, although do I really need another excuse? I hadn't been concentrating on his hand during that scene. Was looking elsewhere. :-o (Kirsten) The photo shooting at the beginning...Obviously to create some excitement... This could be merely the first step in getting her disoriented, off-balance and confused. The shock of all those flashes, while being forced to eat, coming from every direction, with questions being thrown at you. In fact, I think I've seen flashing lights deployed in other movies during psychological torture scenes with prisoners. Was it in The Manchurian Candidate? I know it was in Noble House. Another thought is that he is making Jamie concentrate on what she is doing, eating, so that when she does act or audition she will ignore all that is going on around her. She has to focus. she hasn't even brought one thing to change for the whole weekend? Gaping script hole number 210!! No suitcase. Excellent catch, Kirsten. has anybody ever tried to hide in a grand piano? No, just behind the floor-length curtains (another movie convention) ;-D (Cheryl) Do you think people who are not yet enamored of DB cringe was much as we do in reaction to that scene? (snip) but do you think they're embarrassed for him? Phrased another way: If a different actor were playing the part, NO, I wouldn't even consider for a moment that the scene was embarrassing to do. Rather, I'd be embarrassed for myself that I was wasting my time watching this movie!! As I said earlier, I think the reason we feel so embarrassed for him is that Colin is showing that emotion so strongly and convincingly as Michael. While a struggling actor will go to great lengths to get a part, I'm beginning to wonder whether a man in that position would really be embarrassed. Is this another example of male writer/director with a double standard as, Cheryl, you mentioned earlier? After watching lots of men being interviewed on the news lately, I don't really think they would care about the circumstance! They'd go after it with gusto!! ;-D (yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, Michael is a sensitive type and would care) Didn't you just think Jamie's hand curling up toward the camera's lens as Michael is ..um..er..doing ya know the corniest?! ;-D He could have been bad in the audition because...He'd just had a rather bizarre weekend and found himself attached to a woman he could never approach again. Now that's an interesting thought! He came out of the weekend emotionally scarred, whereas Jamie, who supposedly KILLED someone other than the corpse and couldn't get the police to believe her, comes out of it a stronger person. Bizarre is definitely the right word, not just for the weekend but for the character development. (Kirsten) but don't you think, it's quite tough to make her belief, she really has killed him? Sometimes it's hard to go back to one's first impressions, but didn't you think she had killed him when you watched the movie the first time? Jamie is very scared, off balance, shocked at what she has just seen and done, i.e., pull a trigger. Can any of us imagine having done that while pointing a gun at another person who has a big knife in his hand and is moving toward you in a threatening manner. She's operating on raw emotions. She isn't going to examine the corpse, check for a pulse. He looked de d to her and all she wants to do is get out. And get out fast. (Kirsten) Why is she surprised finding him in the shower? (Evelyn) I thought she was surprised when he came out of the shower "in the full monty." And that he just walked so nonchalantly passed her. (Evelyn) why does Ross appear while she is taking a shower...Is there another R/M moment there? Hmm. Now you've got me wondering. Ross would do it to keep her feeling off balance. Michael, well, we know why Michael would do it. Same reason as he kept the picture of her. Watched the scene again, staring intently at Colin's face. I'd say he definitely walks in as Ross. The expression is underlying menace intended to make her feel another presence in the room. To me, the question is whether it is Michael who leaves the room. Don't know. Still think it was Ross. (Heide)...because he thinks she's a terrific girl and he wants to ask her for a date ;-D? LOL!! Did you watch it again with another bottle of wine? ;-D (Laura) I don't think Jamie loved Michael or Ross; Michael fell in love w/ Jamie. I'm with you on this, but love might be too strong a word. He was drawn to her, interested, infatuated, etc. (Evelyn) I know she is trying to get revenge, but I failed to see the logic of the scene in the story...except for the titillating effect. Gaping script hole number 211. :-o There is no logic here. Revenge is what the the W/D has set up, but if Jamie had any sort of brain in her head wouldn't she wonder why Michael did it? She didn't know Michael from Adam. Why would he want to torture her? He had no motivation to do this on his own. A semi-intelligent person would have questioned Michael about WHO put him up to it. but when the director asks him..."what do you feel, Michael?" How about when Jamie asks the director "why am I doing this?" and the director answers "revenge." Does Jamie then say "revenge for what?" ;-) Re: Underwear Did you notice that it was a halter bra? She couldn't wear a halter bra with that dress. The straps would have shown. Also, her panties miraculously got sewn back together. She's wearing them again when she wakes up in bed after the motorcycle scene. Anyone catch the subject of the poster at Eddie's place when Jamie calls him up after returning from Ross's house of horrors? Lon Chaney. The Man of a Thousand Faces! Ugh! I don't believe it.

(Laura) I don't think Jamie loved Michael or Ross; Michael fell in love w/ Jamie. (Karen) I'm with you on this, but love might be too strong a word. He was drawn to her, interested, infatuated, etc. He's drawn to her alright...but it's Lust, my friends.....Michael liked that second shower scene.!!!

Re: photo shooting at the beginning, acting classes Well, girls, you really showed me what's what. Thanx:-) Seems that I'm pretty ignorant of acting/acting classes. (Karen) but didn't you think she had killed him when you watched the movie the first time? Oh sorry, Karen, seems that I'm not able to say what I think (at least not in English) Of course I did believe she shot him, as well as Jamie did (let apart that I knew he was not, because I read it in some review, but I'm sure I would have, if I had not known in advance). But Michael knew it was only a fake and did nothing to put Jamie at ease. And that's what I think is pretty tough. But, as we all said before, we know none of his motives and what was explained to him about Jamie so it's all pure specul tion and I'd rather put an end to it now, for my part. Re: Why is she surprised finding him in the shower?... (Evelyn) I thought she was surprised when he came out of the shower "in the full monty." (Karen) And that he just walked so nonchalantly passed her. I don't want to harp on that, but I still think she was surprised - or perhaps I should say embarrassed - even before he came out of the shower. But my feeling there was caused by what she said entering the bathroom, or more precisely by the way she said it, but as I admitted before, I wasn't able to catch what exactly she did say then, so I may be wrong there. (Evelyn) why does Ross appear while she is taking a shower...Is there another R/M moment there? I never was 'suspicious' there, but you made me think about it. But I'd stick to my first impression and say that it is a Ross moment (otherwise he would - perhaps - not have disappeared that quick, but only 'perhaps'). To my mind it's another way to intimidate her by making her feel observed and under control at all time and in all conditions. (Karen) ... her panties miraculously got sewn back together. LOL! Perhaps she had another 'shopping' in Ross's fund. Dear me, isn't it amazing what you can see in a film if only you look at it!?! (Not that we're uhm sort of ehmm obsessed ..................................) Ah, and Karen, thanx for putting in Bethan's comments on shower scene no.2. But - as I read it in the office, (oh well, I know I should not ...) - could you pleeeaaase tell me how on earth I now should manage to go back to work and concentrate ????? *Sigh* Thank you all the same, what better distraction one could wish for:-)))))