Evelyn 'fixture' in this case relates to a football match arranged for a set date.In England we have fixture lists where every league match is set out for a full season. I think their discussion of commitment illustrates the growing gap between them.The two aren't meant to benow of course in my role of a long term football fan (from the age of 8)I'm more than willing to take her place ;-) (Evelyn) I have no feeling for any football team.I'm only viewing it because it's a Colin film we are currently discussing...agree I only watch because of Colin,in doing so I'm being disloyal to my team,but those feelings are the same for any team you support

(Emma) First, learn to write, then the spelling will come. An duz it? (Evelyn) I hope Paul is not supposed to exemplify a paragon... No, he doesn't originate from MY part of Europe... England has a somewhat different, "insular" way with aspects of civilization. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I mean, when teachers are poor at spelling, surely that's appaling.

(Heide) And our dear Paul mistakes this sexual relationship with a mature love relationship. Coming from a broken home, he doesn't exactly have any good role models, and it sure didn't appear as though little Paul liked being with his dad's new family. Jungle Book, any one? ;-) (Emma) Which leads to the very last scene, when Sarah said, "I've never seen him so happy" maybe it help her understand Paul a little better. You're really onto something there, Emma. She probably now can understand him a lot better because she's experienced it herself. Sarah is embraced by the crowd and is swept up into the euphoria. She's not Miss Jean Brodie anymore, as Paul says a bit later. She's singing, dancing and hugging babies with everyone. Remember when Paul made that comment during his 18 year rant, that maybe a little bit of her had gone missing? I think now she understands that little "bit" much better. (Emma) In the restaurant scene, the expression on her face was priceless when Paul started comparing her to the football coach. Wasn't it?! I think RG was fine in the role and they made an adorable couple. (Arami) It still bothers me that he sits in front of a blackboard covered with misspelt names of famous writers. Was there more than one? And it was corrected in subsequent shots (note the erasure). (Judy) the shock at his half-hearted proposal shows that even she's realizing that the relationship is eventually doomed. "Paul, you do talk some terrible nonsense." or "I've been impregnated by a twelve-year-old." Those two pretty much sum up her feelings IMO.

Was there more than one? And it was corrected in subsequent shots (note the erasure). Even one was one too many, IMO, and the erasure embarrassing.

It was "FaulkEner" and "HemMingway", and as far as I recall [which doesn't mean much], you only see them on that one pic (link below). What I found interesting was that F. actually was corrected later in the film (and H. not visible, I think). How much would I like to know the "behind the scenes"! Also, how this little "Oscar" remark slipped in into the kitchen scene. I bet it wasn't in the original script, because, why would Paul care (or not care) about an Oscar. But somebody else might not care ;-). http://members.aol.com/valmont123/paulbb.htm

(Emma) First, learn to write, then the spelling will come. (Arami) An duz it? She's ah bettor spellor than me. (Evelyn) I have no feeling for any football team. I'm only viewing it because it's a Colin film that we are currently discussing... Yes, CF is the only reason here...but it has given me a better perspective, in a way, being a football fan is a lot like my CF obsession. Instead of games, it is movies and videos and the internet, and there's a community out there, and we (most of the time) hope and wish for the same things. (Renata) It was "FaulkEner" and "HemMingway", and as far as I recall So they only had trouble with the American writers.

(Eileen) What ludicrous questions, Paul! Hel-LO! (Karen) Actually, they aren't. But for their meaning you'd have to have read FP, the nonfiction book. Um, I have read FP, more than a year ago. It was a little like reading a foreign language but it did give me a frame of reference when I saw the movie. I have no recollection of Hornby's bit about knick-knack analysis, though. Thanks for providing it. So that's why Paul is so interesting in knowing whose stuff it was. He was sizing her up. He's not that simple. Sorry, still don't agree. If the only line was 'are they yours', I would, but the preceding 'what are these for, then?' line when they're obviously knick-knacks is, IMO, ludicrous. I interpret the exchange as Paul's woefully inexperienced attempt at making conversation. It works for me. ;-) BTW, Evelyn, there's no Paul in the book (the only Ashworth I can recall is Angela Ashworth in HF). FP the book is a first person, non-fictional account of NH's obsession. In most ways, Paul is Nick (especially young Paul) but there's no Sarah (although Nick does bring a girlfriend to a match once). (Eileen) how Paul's love of Arsenal infects everyone around him. (Karen) It's called colonization and will leave it at that or else will turn into Shazzer and go into huge rant. Where's my Chardonnay? ;-) *switching to sports fan mode* I don't agree, completely. Jo's wry comments about colinization (i.e., involvement in or following a sport or hobby as a means of facilitating a relationship) best apply to Sarah but not equally to Paul's mother and sister, Jo, Robert and Robert's mother. Paul's mother may have started out colinized by her son, but now she's a fan in her own right. (Karen) She [Sarah]probably now can understand him a lot better because she's experienced it herself. There you go. And did you notice the colors of the polka dot dress (with the deep pockets [LOL, Emma])? Agree with Judy and Emma about Paul's not giving Sarah a key. It wouldn't have occured to NH and it would have spoiled some great bits. (Emma) In the restaurant scene, the expression on her face was priceless when Paul started comparing her to the football coach. Of course, when one of her students relates the same comparison at the party, the lightbulb clicks on over her head. Paul's right. She's got to tell him... (Renate) How much would I like to know the "behind the scenes"! Also, how this little "Oscar" remark slipped in into the kitchen scene. Yes, yes! I've wondered about that myself. (Evelyn) The restaurant scene is a winner, not just because the napkin/fire part..which is funny. But when he tells her about all his plans ...mortgage, bigger house, applying for job...[Watch his eyes...there's a hurt there.] How does he get his eyes to talk like that.. I love this scene, but my favorite 'eye talk' comes at the end of it--after Paul says 'it'll be brilliant'. (Emma) being a football fan is a lot like my CF obsession Ditto.

(Emma) being a football fan is a lot like my CF obsession.Yes I understand that but I have an obsession for both.Paul in one of his voice overs says'..perhaps it's something you can't understand unless you belong.' He's talking about football but it can be applied to ourselves on drool,as Emma has said. Talking about the writing on the blackboard,NH,in his introduction in the screenplay,says that Colin wrote down the names of Arsenal squads.I've never noticed it before & for the same reason I've not seen the spelling mistakes-when Colin's on screen I struggle to notice anything else!

OT I was FF through "Deep Blue Sea" to get to the FP Premiere (Eeeek RG is not as attractive with brown hair!!)I noticed Freddie, when he's telling Hess that he's taking the job in South America,goes to the mantel, leans on it...hesitates..walks away...turns and speaks to Hess... sound familiar? The guy has done so many quirky roles...he must have a roladex in his six-pack belly by now and can bring up any characteristic on call.... Freddie is like Paul in many ways...immature,..rationalizes his actions in a logical manner...to him anyway.

So they only had trouble with the American writers. They were doing the American literature. Had it been an English lit class, we might well have been treated to Chosser, Shakespeer, Tennison, Brontey, Austin... how this little "Oscar" remark slipped in into the kitchen scene. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that he was ad libbing (improvising) in part.

Arami: we might well have been treated to Chosser, Shakespeer... Ah well, even Shakespeare couldn't spell his own name. Re: "black and old gold" - a subtle little joke included here is that Paul has (accidentally?) replaced Byron's "purple and gold" with the official colours of Wolverhampton Wanderers pre-1980, and it still scans. I've never seen "old gold" used in any other context.

(Evelyn)Freddie is like Paul in many ways...immature,..rationalizes his actions in a logical manner...to him anyway. This is what Colin always does and does so well: remember what he said about the first proposal scene in P&P2? Something to the effect that to Darcy the whole thing seemed natural and logical, and that he (Colin) had to understand the logic to be able to play it effectively. In SiL also, he went on about how to Wessex a name-for-money trade marriage was absolutely normal and this made him a normal person for his time, not a villain.

(Mark)Re: "black and old gold" - a subtle little joke ROTF...we're lucky to have you Mark. Only a football fan (WW by any chance?) and perhaps a Byron-lover (no pun) would pick up on that.... When S. asks him has he read Byron. P. Yeah. 'The Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold, and his somethings were gleaming in...black and old gold' Crap. That would get a bigger laugh in UK than in the US for sure.

Well the only laugh it got in the cinema I was in was mine. My DW stared at me and called me a "show-off" when I explained the "joke" later. As usual, she's not wrong;-)

(Evelyn)That would get a bigger laugh in the UK than in the US for sure. (Mark)Well the only laugh it got in the cinema I was in was mine. Yes I'm not surprised it didn't work too well W haven'tbeen a force in English football for a long time, perhaps only recognizable to a slightly older age group than the usual Eng.cinema goer.On a slightly different track part of the problem in England with the film was that Arsenal,although successful, aren't over popular.

(Evelyn) That would get a bigger laugh in UK than in the US for sure. Well, I always laugh and *I* haven't read Byron. There's something about the way he uses the word 'crap' ;-)

(Eileen)...Well, I always laugh... The one that sets me off is: "Mortgage...wife...kid...cool..." And.. "Brilliant".

Wow! I'm away for a few days and I miss all this great discussion. Too much in fact to know where to start. Oh yeah, on the subject of spelling, do you think this was an oversight on the part of crew, or a statement about Paul's lack of interest/caring about teaching? BTW, I am an accomplished misspeller without even trying. But I can't say I care all that much. I think for a man to take an interest in a woman's surroundings (her apartment) says a lot about his sensitivity. I didn't find that simple. IMHO, he doesn't approach the world intellectually, but kinesthetically. Perhaps he needs to cultivate other aspects of himself more, but his comments often reveal a fine self-irony, which suggests enough reflection: "I've got to vary the answers, haven't I? I can's say Arsenal every time." And the funny comment "what are these for, then?" I took to be a typical male comment about the uselessness of knick knacks. (A view I sympathize with.) Still, his sports addiction would be a problem for me in reality. But I still enjoy this film as a male fantasy into the foray of love and relationships. Hornby may not be up to snuff on relationships, but at least he dares to try to explore them in his stories. The whole problem for me is simple: Paul and I just don't share the same addictions! Since you love sports too, Judy, I can see how this could work for you! That's if your love of different teams didn't tear you apart. Oh but think of the making up...Are you feeling tormented yet? (Judy) Did Sarah wanted to share any of it with him, she scoffed at what was important to him. (Karen)Did he appear to care about anything that was important to her? But that would've been another movie. I agree, Karen. That's why I rationalize it as a male fantasy film. We are invited so far into Paul's reality, that a lot of effort is required to stand back and remember how Sarah's life is really being impacted. (And how typical of some of my experiences in relationships this is!) (Judy) I'm not sure that Sarah's the type to let the seed be planted on purpose, after all she's worried about her job,(maternity leave etc) & the fact that she's not sure that she's going to keep the baby I agree with you here, Judy. She seems quite willing to raise the baby on her own. The idea of marriage comes from Paul. It maybe isn't all that surpising. He wants a family. His loyalty to the Arsenal team seems to be largely driven by his hunger to be close to his father. A family of his own would be another way to obtain what drives him. (Evelyn)Freddie is like Paul in many ways...immature,..rationalizes his actions in a logical manner...to him anyway. (Gi)This is what Colin always does and does so well: remember what he said about the first proposal scene in P&P2? Something to the effect that to Darcy the whole thing seemed natural and logical, and that he (Colin) had to understand the logic to be able to play it effectively. Yes, he certainly does. And it makes it that much harder to be an objective viewer! Not only is he distracting to watch because he's so goodlooking, but he had to be talented too! (Heide)At what point are you suggesting he's imposing on her freedom? I'm assuming it's during his suggestion they get married but am wondering if it might even be before. To paraphrase my fave fic man: I cannot fix on the hour, or the spot, or the look, or the words, which laid the foundation for my suspicion. But I would say the moment that Sarah starts doing extra because he's not doing enough, is the moment that he's imposing on her freedom and she's letting him. I'm gonna have to watch the film again . What a burden, poor me!

You know Sadie for someone who didn't know where tostart you've not done a bad job;-D 'Oh but think of the making up..' yes I'd start a row just for that,I'd love to soothe his ruffled feathers (should that be hair?)I know where to kiss him better when he's feeling blue over his team losing especially when my team beat his quite often!There's another row & some more making up to do,it's like a pleasure circle. 'he wants a family'Doesn't he say somewhere that Arsenal is his family?well thats my excuse to watch it again.

LOL Judy, glad to see you zeroed in on my most important humble reflections! It is a v. long post! What can I say, CF is a fave topic!

One (I have a few) of my favourite lines in FP is when Paul and Sara are looling for a house and she says something along the lines of that there are other places to live other than something or other and Paul says "com' on Sara, you know thats not true".

I enjoyed the long post, you were suffering withdrawal symptoms & had a lot to get off your chest (thats not an excuse to get them out) Cathey I enjoy that scene as well,the only place to live is near the stadium (I chose my uni to be near my team ;-D so understand where he's coming from, in my defence I was only 18 & he's older)

Me too Cathey!Another endearing moment. Yes you are right, Judy. I was suffering from withdrawal. Apologies all round, I should have at least broken the post up into two, but I just got carried away! So many comments from others I just had to respond to!

It wasn't a criticism Sadie I was only teasing;-) Get carried away anytime it was good fun.

Oh I know you were just kidding! I was just laughing at myself too.

(Renate) why would Paul care (or not care) about an Oscar. Yes, seemed so out of place within that speech. (Mark) Re: "black and old gold" - a subtle little joke There are probably lots more. On a videotape of film review shows, one of the critics said that Paul is teaching his team how to do an offside trap, a play used frequently by the ever-boring Arsenal. Of course, Sarah wouldn't have gotten the joke either, but was perhaps expecting to hear "she walks in beauty, like the night..." (Sadie) on the subject of spelling, do you think this was an oversight on the part of crew, or a statement about Paul's lack of interest/caring about teaching? As Renate pointed out, the FaulkEner had been erased and rewritten on the board, but the HemMingway shows. But the real issue is those photographs were part of the official presskit, so you'd think somebody would've noticed them and pulled them out because it would be embarrassing. But I also wonder why "Miller" is up on the board. Arthur Miller doesn't fit in with that group and can't imagine they would be reading Henry Miller's The Tropic of Cancer. Nor does Twain fit in for that matter ("modern Am lit??). Another question for when Nick Hornby is on the booksigning circuit. ;-) (Sadie) but his comments often reveal a fine self-irony, which suggests enough reflection As in: Robert's Mother: He's always going on about you... Paul: Yeah, well. It's my infectious enthusiasm for Steinbeck's prose style, probably. Either that or something else. Paul knows very well why the kids like him. Very cute and irreverent quote from an Irish paper:Instead, it's about a man, his woman and his football team and she doesn't know where she comes in the pecking order. Silly woman, she comes after the 11 players, the four subs, the manager, the directors, the coach, the hot-dog seller, the editor of the match day programme, the other fans and the wee lad who runs out as the club mascot.Paul is not just a fan; he has an obsession. There's a vast difference between the two IMO.

I really need to see this film again. I really appreciate people sharing the in-jokes. Of course, I am not a sports fan, or a Byron fan, so I missed all those subtle references. Oh the agony of ignorance! Yes I agree, with you Karen. He spends most of his time and energy on the Arsenals. It shapes everything he does --- clearly an obsession. *Gulp* Trivial pursuit question: are there any football players with the names Faulkener, Hemmingway, & Miller?

(Karen) Paul is not just a fan; he has an obsession Yes, what does he say? (paraphrasing) 'You don't know whether life is crap because Arsenal is crap or if it's the other way round'. He can't tell the difference. YOU KNOW YOU'VE WATCHED FP TOO MANY TIMES WHEN... - After watching your team's kicker (we're talking American football here) miss yet another crucial field goal, you stand and shout 'Oy! Numbah nine! You're a donkey!' - You refer to your football team's 2000-2001 schedule as a fixture list. - You go on a job interview and determine the position to be unsuitable. You tell yourself '...the job? You'd think I'd be this upset over a stupid, poxy job interview?' - The words 'crap' and 'shut up' creep into your everyday vocabulary, not to mention 'f**k' and 'bollocks' (the latter said twice in row, wistfully) - You ask your husband 'are you a complete fool?' (gratefully catching yourself before you call him Paul, as his name is not Paul). - When a car cuts you off on the highway, you catch yourself shouting 'won't you pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease...' The same holds true when the phone rings while you are watching FP (again).

LOL, Eileen, that was brilliant.

Well done Eileen. Great start to my day. Thank you.

Good one, Eileen...almost as good as Moon's Ten Reason's Why ....

...sorry, I was thinking about DH Lawrence ROFLOL, Eileen. Can just picture you (oops, sorry, this was purely hypothetical, right?) at football game yelling the first one. Me, I'd be looking for Jenkins.

Great Stuff Eileen! you could also add, - You go into a sweet shop and just can't avoid buying sugar mice!

This would apply only to Gi or Eileen...they walk into a patient's room and exclaim: "You need medical help. You've got some kind of disease that turns people into miserable bastards." ;-p

I know quite a number of people who think I'm the patient... ;-)

LMAO Eileen! I particularly find 'won't you pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease...' to be true, true, true. V. funny in scary way!

Hello, this really is my first time, and I know this one appeals to me most.

(Octavia)I know this one appeals to me most. It's my favorite board too, Octavia.We practically always have an ongoing Firth film discussion going on.Have you seen Fever Pitch? Tell us your fave moments....or comment on what others have said.

(Evelyn) almost as good as Moon's Ten Reason's Why .... Heck, while the Moon's away, the [sugar] mouse will play.

The Moon will be back in a week and half... Warning: Critical and Sexist Comment Coming Up he breaks like a woman *sniff sniff* shattering all my illusions about a certain scene in P&P

Ummm...waddaya mean, 'breaks'?

Well, as long as he doesn't make love like a woman, and break like a little girl. One woman in the bed (preferably me) is enough. ;-) (Arami)I know quite a number of people who think I'm the patient... ;-) I've always enjoyed your sense of humour, Arami. The ;-) always give it away. You're going to have to try harder to be a MB in my eyes! (That's not a challenge though...)

Ditto where I come from its only wind that breaks! (while indulging in above activity men have been knownto give an enigmatic smile,thinking here of my son)

Was replying to Eileen there! where did you pop up from Sadie?

I've always enjoyed your sense of humour, Arami. [So it's not all in vain... :-)]

No Arami, as long as I "am seriously [pleased]", your existence is justified....Dry sardonic tone is catching. ;-)

I've been bouncing from board to board in quest of Drool chalice. *Your using coconuts*

Oops, last was reply to Judy's question. Getting trigger-happy.

Does anybody out there know what we're talking about

I don't have any idea what I'm talking about . So what we're talking about is right over my head. Hmmm. I'm thinkin' tall, dark, and handsome. I'm thinkin' smouldering eyes. I'm thinkin' a walk which is sometimes Mr.Darcy's walk, purposeful and sure, and sometimes not Mr. Darcy's walk, toes turned slightly inward, occasional trip. I'm thinkin' strong beautiful hand on neck. I'm thinkin' prominent Adam's apple on neck....Ah, the benefits of meditation for focusing in one's life....

You see, Tommy. It's all about group visualizations at Drool.

(Eileen) Ummm...waddaya mean, 'breaks'? (Judy) where I come from its only wind that breaks! What you do all call the first/opening shot in pool? It's the break and is a verb as well.

Ah thank you Karen,I was worried but unfortunately it just shows the way my mind works!Who says he does it like a woman?

Who the f...f...f...irth is Tommy?

What you do all call the first/opening shot in pool? Thanks, from one who has played pool once in the past 20 years. Bet CF no longer breaks like a girl, now that Cornel has rid him of weakness, flab and girly-man muscles.

OK, have question. On one of the television shows reviewing FP (way back when), they mention that the movie has two hunks appearing in it and the second is Neil Pearson. What has he done to earn that label?

Simply that he does quite a bit of TV & is consideredone of TV's heart-throbs.Can you believe it?

.... two hunks appearing in it and the second is Neil Pearson. ROTF... a sex symbol? But I thought he was pretty cute when he remarked to the interviewer something like..."Well, it's better than vomiting at the sight of me..." I would have thought they mean't Mark Strong . (Not me...but some people think he is....)Mr. Knightley indeed...*burp*,*burp*

He - Neil P. - has also said, "Me - a sex symbol? It's garbage, of course, but I can live with that..."

Neil P? So there were other men in the movie! Missed that little detail right along with the way Paul breaks.

Coming out of lurkdom once again briefly. Visited my local Blockbuster Video store today, and among the previously viewed videotapes I found a single copy of My Life So Far. There is a sale on previously viewed tapes right now. Total cost (including tax)$7.41. Thought this might be of interest to others who frequent these boards. Hope you have similar luck, because I couldn't believe mine. Now I'm not one to believe in advertising campaigns, but this time it's true--I went to Blockbuster Video and "came home happy!" Good luck.

Good for you, Sylvana!:-)

Apartment Zero has it all; a good script, wonderful actors and a good director. The soundtrack compliments the film and sets the tone remarkably well. Adrian Le Duc is always alone. The loner. He has no patience for the outside world or for his neighbors. He escapes into the world of film/fantasy by owning a theatre as well as keeping framed pictures of movie stars in his apt. He can talk to them. Then one day, Jack, a James Dean look-a-like enters and he changes. Adrian immediately confesses a secret, that he is Argentinean and speaks Spanish. That makes Jack, who has a big secret himself, feels safe. In the beginning Adrian asks Jack to change his sign, �You�re not a Gemini, you are an Aquarius�. That implies change your date of birth, become someone new. That is exactly what Jack was looking for, a new mask. He stays and the drama begins. We can also say that everyone that lives in the apt. Building wears masks. Nothing is what it seems to be. There is the obvious transvestite, to the �non-married widow�, the delusional next-door neighbor, and the �Latin lover� type� They wear masks because they are afraid of the government, afraid of what goes on outside in Argentina, of the mass murders. Ironically, that all enters their haven when Jack moves in. There is also Adrian�s relationship with his mother. (IMO, the director wanted to through in a �Psycho� reference). He wants to talk to her, as the next-door neighbor says, �Confess sins to a stranger because they will absolve you�. She is his mother but also a stranger. He does not feel comfortable around her; in fact he always gets angry with her when he leaves. Does he think he is going to end up like her? Perhaps. Is that what happens at the end, when he goes in tilt? Is it insanity or finally, sanity? Does his mother�s death trigger it? More later.

Excellent intro to the film, Moon. (Moon) Apartment Zero has it all; a good script, wonderful actors and a good director. I never used to think that. When I saw it the first time, I didn't particularly like it. It was creepy, like Psycho, and I don't like creepy. Psycho is the only Hitchcock film I don't like watching over and over again. However, I've changed my mind on AZ. There's so much more there than just creepy behavior. Colin is excellent and I can understand why he would win the best actor award at that film fest. (Moon) Adrian Le Duc is always alone. The loner. He has no patience for the outside world or for his neighbors. Is it that he doesn't have patience? When he warns Jack not to become friendly with them, he says they might turn into "a great big ugly family." Family is not a desirable thing to Adrian as he's attached an ugliness factor to it. Do you think it is merely because of his mother or was it broader? (Moon) "You�re not a Gemini, you are an Aquarius." That implies change your date of birth, become someone new. v. interesting. Jack is continually changing into someone new. Hmmm, what's Adrian's sign? ;-D (Moon) in fact he always gets angry with her when he leaves. Does he think he is going to end up like her? Is it anger or frustration? I felt it was more of the latter. Adrian mentions several times how awful it is watching his mother deteriorate. That can make one angry because you're ineffectual. Think I know why you like AZ so much. Adrian and Geoffrey could be twins. ;-D

Great start, Moon. I hadn't seen this film in three years and amazingly the mask symbolism hit me...is it because I am looking for so much more in films now than just the story? Poor Adrian...life has really dumped on him. He has a personality disorder (genes?), his mother is mad, his neighbors are all unstable , and his livelihood is even tenuous.Along comes Jack who is going to bring the companionship that he yearns for (besides he sorta looks like his idol, James Dean).Don't you cringe when he offers to do Jack's laundry and then washes , irons and neatly fold his shirts! This is a masterful film...IMO a film ahead of its time...if it were released today , I think it would be a "go".Scarry, psycho movies are "in"..and this is an indie, but not a cheapo one.Ilike the way it's filmed in muted colors and sometimes reverts to B/W. So what's with this Martin Donovan guy...why the nom d'plume. Why didn't he use his real Argentine name? I have lots of questions on this film...but I'll wait til later..

Great synopsis of the film, Moon. I haven't watched it in awhile so can't contribute much right now. Do agree it's one of his best though not one of my top watchable films. I think it takes several viewings to see the humor in this film. There are a lot of funny lines and scenes. Colin's portrayal of Adrian's abhorrence of his neighbors is hilarious. One of my favorite scenes is Adrian's tailing of Jack to his supposed place of business. The music is fantastic.

(Karen),When he warns Jack not to become friendly with them, he says they might turn into "a great big ugly family." Family is not a desirable thing to Adrian as he's attached an ugliness factor to it. Do you think it is merely because of his mother or was it broader? Well, at the end, Jack tells Adrian, "I am your brother", and there is a close up of Adrian and he does not take it well. Maybe this triggered something in him because after this Adrian goes for the case and the whole mess happens. (Moon) in fact he always gets angry with her when he leaves. Does he think he is going to end up like her? (Karen), Is it anger or frustration? I felt it was more of the latter. Adrian mentions several times how awful it is watching his mother deteriorate. Both. He needs and wants to be able to talk to her. In one scene it looks as if they were talking and she goes postal (;-) and he becomes angry and frustrated because he can not finish what is on his mind (his confession?) (Evelyn), This is a masterful film...IMO a film ahead of its time...if it were released today , I think it would be a "go".Scarry, psycho movies are "in"..and this is an indie, but not a cheapo one. I agree! I hadn't seen this film in three years and amazingly the mask symbolism hit me...is it because I am looking for so much more in films now than just the story? IMO, that is what film should do. The camera also tells a story. Otherwise, one should just to go the theatre. Films should never be static. (Heide) I think it takes several viewings to see the humor in this film. There are a lot of funny lines and scenes. Brilliant black humor. It is disturbing and that is what makes it so well done. Have you thought about the similarities with Psycho? There are many. More later.

Well, I haven't watched DIV again, as I cannot find a copy to rent. Hope there won't be a pop quiz. ;-) Very interesting comments on AZ, thus far. I really enjoy these film discussions, and everyone's take on the films. Like you, Karen, I am not fond of creepy films, either. Upon first viewing AZ, I thought it was well made and suspenseful, but did not particularly enjoy it. It is still not an easy movie for me to watch, especially at the end. I also find it hard to feel sympathetic toward Adrian, as he thinks he is superior to everyone else, and uses his knowledge of films to distance and isolate himself from other people and the outside world. This is sad, and his mother's demise is tragic, but I still do not like him. (Moon) The soundtrack compliments the film and sets the tone remarkably well. Yes, particularly at the beginning of the film along with the shots of Buenos Aires at night. (Moon) "You're not a Gemini, you are an Aquarius." That implies change your date of birth, become someone new. Yes, and perhaps Jack was giving Adrian a hint that as a Gemini (the twins), he (Jack) wore more than one mask already, so this wasn't much of a stretch for Jack to change his astrological sign, or his persona. I also think it interesting that Jack's last name is Carney. I am wondering if this is a play on words: a Carnie is a circus/carnival/sideshow worker. Adrian's neighbors are Fellini-esque: a veritable sideshow of characters.....Or Carney could represent carnage. (Karen ) v. interesting. Jack is continually changing into someone new. I noticed this, too. Jack is very good at morphing into the person each neighbor wants Jack to be, as well as telling each neighbor what he/she wants to hear. This makes him popular with the other tenants and above suspicion. It probably doesn't hurt that Jack has a pretty face, either. ;-) (Heide) I think it takes several viewings to see the humor in this film. The cat rescuing scene and the looks exchanged between the cat and Jack really cracked me up this time around. Jack has a really crazy look on his face, and the cat looks repulsed at the sight of Jack (Or maybe that sort of cat always has a repulsed look on its face.;-)). Regarding Adrian and his mother, did anyone else think that Adrian is inappropriately stroking and touching his mother's head and shoulders? It makes me wonder if their relationship is an incestuous one, and the cause of the mother's mental illness/madness, and Adrian's real secret? This certainly is along the lines of Psycho.

If you want to read a brilliant analysis of one of the best AZ scenes go to: http://members.aol.com/skbutler/azm.html

Thanks, Lassie. It is good to have snappies to refer to. Maybe you could invite skbutler to join our discussion. (Lisa), It is still not an easy movie for me to watch, especially at the end. I also find it hard to feel sympathetic toward Adrian, as he thinks he is superior to everyone else, and uses his knowledge of films to distance and isolate himself from other people and the outside world. This is something to analise. Why is he like that? How does the director explain it? etc.

(Heide) One of my favorite scenes is Adrian's tailing of Jack to his supposed place of business. Yes! For a film fanatic, Adrian's tailing of Jack is pure Keystone Kops. Could he be more obvious? Loved it when he tells the cabdriver to "follow that man." Right out of the movies, but doesn't go as smoothly as in the movies. At one point, Adrian is literally a few feet behind Jack at the zebra crossing. Then, amazingly, once Jack walks into the company, Adrian turns and walks away, without waiting for even a few minutes or checking to see if Jack comes out another exit. Too funny. (Moon) Well, at the end, Jack tells Adrian, "I am your brother"...Maybe this triggered something in him because after this Adrian goes for the case and the whole mess happens. Why Adrian goes for the case has been bothersome to me. (Moon) Have you thought about the similarities with Psycho? There are many. Let's see, Adrian doesn't dress up in his mother's clothes, but there is a shower scene. ;-D (Lisa) he thinks he is superior to everyone else, and uses his knowledge of films to distance and isolate himself from other people and the outside world. Also by pretending to be English and not letting on that he understands Spanish. (Lisa) perhaps Jack was giving Adrian a hint that as a Gemini (the twins), he (Jack) wore more than one mask already Good one. Jack was already two people. (Lisa) I am wondering if this is a play on words: a Carnie is a circus/carnival/sideshow worker. Adrian's neighbors are Fellini-esque: a veritable sideshow of characters.....Or Carney could represent carnage. Ummmm! A discussion of names and their meaning. Something I can sink my teeth into. ;-D Both of your interpretations work very well, but I'm leaning toward the carnival/circus worker, which segues perfectly to the cat discussion.... ;-D (Lisa) The cat rescuing scene and the looks exchanged between the cat and Jack really cracked me up this time around. What I saw in this scene was a little different. It was "blinkmanship." Who would blink first. Jack stared the cat down. The cat gave a big blink and gave up and Jack could take it down. Sort of like a lion tamer in a circus. All in the eyes. (Lisa) It makes me wonder if their relationship is an incestuous one, and the cause of the mother's mental illness/madness, and Adrian's real secret? This certainly is along the lines of Psycho. Not sure if there actually was incest, but it sure seems Oedipal. Also the neighbor across the way from AZ has the opposite fixation. Electra, wasn't it? ;-D

Both. He needs and wants to be able to talk to her. In one scene it looks as if they were talking and she goes postal (;-) and he becomes angry and frustrated because he can not finish what is on his mind (his confession?) In the last scene at the hospital when he walks in and sees her cadaver, he claws at the door and hears his mother pleading:"Adrian, don't leave me here..." You next see him with her clothes... fingering her pearls...definite remorse and as Karen says...oedipal relationship for sure. The cat scene is a complete mystery to me.... How about the scene where the couple is in the cafe...they part...she looks around and there is a shot. Is that Christian, Claudia's friend? Does the mysterious girl betray him to the hoods?

I've just started to watch AZ again. Wish I could se it on a bigger screen and with better image. Still. (Moon) Adrian Le Duc is always alone. The loner. He has no patience for the outside world or for his neighbors. (Karen)Is it that he doesn't have patience? When he warns Jack not to become friendly with them, he says they might turn into "a great big ugly family." (LisaJH) I also find it hard to feel sympathetic toward Adrian, as he thinks he is superior to everyone else Thinking oneself superior is the most basic line of defense for an insecure person. Adrian is an outsider. He was an Argentinian boy in England - he had to learn a new language and a new culture. Then he came back, and was an English young man in Argentina. Could he but feel different? Of course he could have taken a different path. BTW, Argentina and the UK have a territorial dispute over the Falkland Islands= Islas Malvinas. I thought the taxi driver who refused to "follow that man" unless he was told why, cried after Adrian "Malvinas!" a couple of times. (Karen)Colin is excellent I love his reaction to the smoke in his face (from Jack's cigarette). (LisaJH)Adrian's neighbors are Fellini-esque: a veritable sideshow of characters. Indeed they are :-) (LisaJH)Regarding Adrian and his mother, did anyone else think that Adrian is inappropriately stroking and touching his mother's head and shoulders? It looked aboveboard to me. And I agree with Karen that he's more frustrated than angry. I also don't think she's mad, just suffers from some form of Alzheimer's disease. So I don't think he goes mad either. A question: why is Jack so out of sorts (is this the word?) after he kills Claudia? He's killed before, he's a pro, why doesn't he deal with it calmly on his own? Does he need Adrian's help (must wait for the night) and hence the brotherly love-you-need-me-I-need-you speech? Jack's masks: I think he's a charmer, a seducer. His stares into other people's eyes (even the cat's eyes, for a moment) are blatantly ;-) sexual, or are meant to be taken as sexual promises.

(Karen)Then, amazingly, once Jack walks into the company, Adrian turns and walks away, without waiting for even a few minutes or checking to see if Jack comes out another exit. Too funny. He really wants to believe in Jack, he wants him to work where he said he works. (Karen)Why Adrian goes for the case has been bothersome to me. At that point, he needs to know more than to believe? I see Adrian going through every anxiety in his love for Jack: fear of being abandoned, fear of being deceived, pure jealousy, fear of rejection, fear of not doing enough, of doing too much... (Evelyn)How about the scene where the couple is in the cafe...they part...she looks around and there is a shot. Is that Christian, Claudia's friend? Does the mysterious girl betray him to the hoods? I don't think it's Christian, but I believe she betrays him. The "oedipal relationship" between Adrian and his mother: it's there, I suppose, although it's subtle, but also typical of portraits of latent homossexuality (I don't know if it's typical of the actual latent homossexuality).

(Heide) One of my favorite scenes is Adrian's tailing of Jack to his supposed place of business. (Karen), Yes! For a film fanatic, Adrian's tailing of Jack is pure Keystone Kops. I love this scene too! Very Hitchcock, Cary Grantish also. (Karen), Then, amazingly, once Jack walks into the company, Adrian turns and walks away, without waiting for even a few minutes or checking to see if Jack comes out another exit. That bothers me too. It seems as if he blindly trust Jack. He believes because he wants to believe. Why Adrian goes for the case has been bothersome to me. Just before this happens, there is a close up of Adrian looking at their picture. What happens? Did he see through the mask? Did he think he would be next? but I'm leaning toward the carnival/circus worker, which segues perfectly to the cat discussion.... ;-D LOL! In Spanish it it carnaval. It is closer to carnivero, carnivorous or carnicero, butcher. (Lisa) The cat rescuing scene and the looks exchanged between the cat and Jack really cracked me up this time around. (Evelyn), The cat scene is a complete mystery to me.... Apt. 0 is all the way on top. Let us say the cat = Adrian. Jack comes oit of the blue to rescue him from his perilous lonelyness. The stares are the mistrust. Will the cat accept his help or will it attack him. Can Jack trust the cat not to hurt him? (Evelyn), How about the scene where the couple is in the cafe. I thought it was Christian having dinner with Claudia. Adrian stares at them. Why? (Gi), Thinking oneself superior is the most basic line of defense for an insecure person. Unless the person really has a reason to feel superior. A question: why is Jack so out of sorts (is this the word?) after he kills Claudia? He's killed before, he's a pro, why doesn't he deal with it calmly on his own? He is a pro who has never been caught before. Now he was. Would he have to kill Adrian too? How would Adrian react? Too many people knew him in the building. This was not going to be an easy job to walk away from. Or so he thought, because as it turned out, Adrian helped him. Why would Adrian help him get rid of Claudia�s body? He liked her. He even use to dream of her. What was his purpose in helping Jack?

closing tags sorry

I have to go watch AZ to refresh my memory, so just a quick comment about why Jack is upset after he kills Claudia. In an early scene, a murder occurs, then Adrian hears Jack crying in the middle of the night and tries to comfort him. Later, after Jack kills the young fellow for his passport, he is almost berserk as he cuts up a passport photo fit the new document. Then there is his breakdown after Claudia. IMO, Jack is not cold-blooded; in the aftermath of killing, he seems emotionally devastated. I think he is falling apart, which is why he allows Adrian to kill him at the end. He is unable to kill Adrian and really doesn�t want to go on living with what he has become. Adrian becomes stronger as Jack crumbles. As for why Adrian goes for the case...Adrian makes a telling comment to Jack after Claudia�s death about the apartment finally being his. I get the impression that when Jack claims to being Adrian�s brother, he triggers the fear in Adrian that his life will be taken over yet again by someone else, that he will be dominated by Jack as he was dominated by his mother, a circumstance he simply cannot endure. Going for the gun is his last grasp at being his own man, or at least whatever his idea of what a man is. Although the last scene shows Adrian as a movie type, it is an image of a strong, in-charge kind of guy, not the wimp he has always considered himself. I hope the above makes a little sense. BTW, what did Adrian do with Jack�s body?

I think you have a good point, Lynda...in the course of the film there is no doubt that Adrian is gaining confidence . What was the point of showing his mother's funeral? Why does Adrian always carry an umbrella, when no one else is and it's not raining? When they are discussing Florida after Jack kills Claudia, Adrian begins to realize that he's not part of that picture.What does everyone else think? BTW on a frivolous note...isn't this the first film that Colin runs up the stairs ...that was later copied in Valmount, P&P and SIL?

(Evelyn) Why does Adrian always carry an umbrella, when no one else is and it's not raining? 'Cause he's supposed to be English. ;-D

Good points, Lynda. (Lynda), which is why he allows Adrian to kill him at the end. We do not see exactly what happens when Jack is killed, the camera pulls away, so we do not really know if jack just lets Adrian kill him. It was a struggle, it could have been either one. If Jack wanted to die I think he would have pulled the trigger on himself. That might explain why Adrian still has Jack in the Apt. after he is dead: he did not pull the trigger, so to him Jack is not dead. As for why Adrian goes for the case...Adrian makes a telling comment to Jack after Claudia�s death about the apartment finally being his. I get the impression that when Jack claims to being Adrian�s brother, he triggers the fear in Adrian that his life will be taken over yet again by someone else, Agreed! Although the last scene shows Adrian as a movie type, it is an image of a strong, in-charge kind of guy, not the wimp he has always considered himself. Adrian never considered himself wimp. He had his British aloof/mind-your-own-business persona. At the end, I felt he had taken over a bit of the James Dean persona that Jack had. He had become the Gemini, changed his mask. BTW, what did Adrian do with Jack�s body? We can assume that he was still in the Apt.waiting for his return because we do not have a shot of an empty Apt. at the end. (Evelyn),What was the point of showing his mother's funeral? The closure, the acceptance of the death. He is now truly alone. There is a shot from within the cript that stresses that separation. Why does Adrian always carry an umbrella, when no one else is and it's not raining? (Karen), 'Cause he's supposed to be English. ;-D I would agree. It will also help to underline the persona change at the end. (Evelyn),When they are discussing Florida after Jack kills Claudia, Adrian begins to realize that he's not part of that picture. No! Not Florida, they are still deciding who will be president. ;-) It was California. Home to Hollywood, stars, films, etc. Maybe this is what makes Adrian offer his help. Maybe if he helps, Jack might let him go with him.

(Lynda) which is why he allows Adrian to kill him at the end. (Moon) We do not see exactly what happens when Jack is killed, the camera pulls away, so we do not really know if jack just lets Adrian kill him. What I saw was Jack's hand over Adrian's, turning the barrel of the gun toward himself. Jack had wanted to get out (mercenary business, Argentina, etc.) and he finally just gave up and ensured that Adrian would do it. (Moon) If Jack wanted to die I think he would have pulled the trigger on himself. I don't think Jack could trust himself to do that. He might, on reflex, kill Adrian if he were in that much control.

(Gi) Thinking oneself superior is the most basic line of defense for an insecure person You can see Adrian's insecurity at the bar when Jack is checking things out, wanting to socialize with others. (Gi) I thought the taxi driver who refused to "follow that man" unless he was told why, cried after Adrian "Malvinas!" a couple of times. Will take another looksie. ;-D (Gi) Jack's masks: I think he's a charmer, a seducer. His stares into other people's eyes (even the cat's eyes, for a moment) are blatantly ;-) sexual, or are meant to be taken as sexual promises. Seducer is an excellent description. (Heide) One of my favorite scenes is Adrian's tailing of Jack to his supposed place of business. (Moon) I love this scene too! Very Hitchcock, Cary Grantish also. I can see the Hitchcock too, but not just Cary Grantish. ;-) (Moon) In Spanish it is carnaval. It is closer to carnivero, carnivorous or carnicero, butcher. Carne (two syllable pronunciation) does mean meat in Spanish, the writer/director's language. Will check my English-Spanish dictionary to see if there's anything close to LeDuc. ;-) Probably is just meant to give Adrian (male/female name) an aristocratic air. (Moon) Why would Adrian help him get rid of Claudia's body? He liked her. He even use to dream of her. What was his purpose in helping Jack? Adrian loved Jack, so of course he would help him out. When did Adrian dream of Claudia? (Moon) At the end, I felt he had taken over a bit of the James Dean persona that Jack had. Then, he really should've been wearing a red jacket. ;-) (Moon) It was California. Home to Hollywood, stars, films, etc. Maybe this is what makes Adrian offer his help. Maybe if he helps, Jack might let him go with him. Actually, ALL of America that held this interest for Adrian. Remember when Jack says he is from Connecticut? Automatically, Adrian associates it with Paul Newman. All of America is Hollywood films to Adrian.

What was the point of showing his mother's funeral? When Adrian's away, Jack will play. At least we know why he's not home recovering from his horrific accident when Claudia comes calling. (Lisa) The cat rescuing scene and the looks exchanged between the cat and Jack really cracked me up this time around. (Karen) What I saw in this scene was a little different. It was "blinkmanship." Who would blink first. Jack stared the cat down. The cat gave a big blink and gave up and Jack could take it down. Perfect, Karen. I watched it this afternoon and the cat actually did "surrender" after finally blinking. Jack looked rather feline himself. (Gi) I thought the taxi driver who refused to "follow that man" unless he was told why, cried after Adrian "Malvinas!" a couple of times. Listened for that too, and again, you're absolutely right, Gi. A comical scene nevertheless. I don't dislike Adrian. He has a dry sense of humor that appeals to me. Am not sure why he contains himself so strictly within that British pouf exterior. He's given some great lines - "I haven't the heart to tell her (his mother) she sounds like Erich von Stroheim." "He (Carlos) doesn't know who Geraldine Page is...'Who's Geraldine Page?' I just knew I couldn't talk to him after that." But my favorite is: "I don't like girls. I like women." (Lisa)Adrian's neighbors are Fellini-esque: a veritable sideshow of characters. As are the people who answered his ad to share his flat. That last woman, the one with the bad makeup who was pricing everything in his apartment looking at his film star photographs, "Who are these people anyway? Will I have to meet them?" Cracks me up. An aside, I notice a prevalence of photos of homosexual or bisexual male film stars - Montgomery Clift, Charles Laughton, James Dean. Coincidence? ((Gi), Thinking oneself superior is the most basic line of defense for an insecure person. (Moon) Unless the person really has a reason to feel superior. Ah yes, where there is a real superiority of mind, pride will always be in good regulation.;-) (Lynda) In an early scene, a murder occurs, then Adrian hears Jack crying in the middle of the night and tries to comfort him. Later, after Jack kills the young fellow for his passport, he is almost berserk as he cuts up a passport photo fit the new document. Then there is his breakdown after Claudia. IMO, Jack is not cold-blooded; in the aftermath of killing, he seems emotionally devastated. Agree completely with you, Lynda, that this explains his loss of control. (Karen) Why Adrian goes for the case has been bothersome to me. (Moon) Just before this happens, there is a close up of Adrian looking at their picture. What happens? Did he see through the mask? Did he think he would be next? (Lynda) I get the impression that when Jack claims to being Adrian�s brother, he triggers the fear in Adrian that his life will be taken over yet again by someone else I see Jack's mask is continually slipping at this point. Now that Adrian knows the real Jack, he tells him "you'll get used to it". Adrian doesn't want to get used to this Jack. So which "Jack" does Adrian become in the end?

(Gi) A question: why is Jack so out of sorts (is this the word?) after he kills Claudia? He's killed before, he's a pro, why doesn't he deal with it calmly on his own? Claudia is one of the few people in the film not wearing a persona. IMO, Jack becomes unglued after he kills Claudia because she has confronted Jack in the apartment and identified him as the killer, thus removing Jack's mask. Claudia is not a "faceless" person -- she is Adrian's employee and acquaintance, which makes her murder more personal in nature and less of an anonymous, random act of violence. (Karen) What I saw in this scene was a little different. It was "blinkmanship." Who would blink first. Jack stared the cat down. The cat gave a big blink and gave up and Jack could take it down. Sort of like a lion tamer in a circus. All in the eyes. Interesting. I will have to watch the scene again . I thought that animals (and children) would most likely react to Jack on a more instinctual level, see right through his nice guy persona and pick up on his creepiness. I can imagine a small child taking one look at Jack and running out of the room screaming. (Evelyn) Why does Adrian always carry an umbrella, when no one else is and it's not raining I think Martin Donovan is having a bit of fun with symbols and stereotypes: a black cat, a ladder, etc. Maybe this is Adrian having his David Niven moments. ;-) (Heide) I don't dislike Adrian. He has a dry sense of humor that appeals to me. Now, if we could only do something about his arrogance and neuroses. ;-) (Heide) He's given some great lines - "I haven't the heart to tell her (his mother) she sounds like Erich von Stroheim." LOL, that was a gem! Carlos doesn't know who Geraldine Page is...'Who's Geraldine Page?' I just knew I couldn't talk to him after that. I thought he was dead serious. Adrian is the charter and sole member of his movie Mensa. ;-) (Heide) But my favorite is: "I don't like girls. I like women." Could he mean�his mother? ;-) (Moon) Unless the person really has a reason to feel superior. (Heide)Ah yes, where there is a real superiority of mind, pride will always be in good regulation.;-) V. good, Heide! ;-) It is fun to see how Adrian's knowledge of the cinema pushes people away, whereas Martin Donovan's script -- chock full of movie references -- engages and draws the audience in. This is definitely a movie lover's movie. Do you think Adrian gets caught for murdering Jack and assisting with the disposal of Claudia? Does he continue to kill? That last scene of Adrian as James Dean is spooky, but look at those broad shoulders in that jacket! Wowwee! ;-)

(Gi) A question: why is Jack so out of sorts (is this the word?) after he kills Claudia? He's killed before, he's a pro, why doesn't he deal with it calmly on his own? (Lisa) Claudia is not a "faceless" person -- she is Adrian's employee and acquaintance, which makes her murder more personal in nature and less of an anonymous, random act of violence. This is something that has been puzzling me. I thought that maybe Jack's killings were hits. Claudia became an innocent bystander because she recognized him. Then he had to kill that fellow to get his passport. Or had Jack gone off the deep end and became a loose cannon serial killer?

(Lynda) which is why he allows Adrian to kill him at the end. (Moon) We do not see exactly what happens when Jack is killed, the camera pulls away, so we do not really know if jack just lets Adrian kill him. (Karen)What I saw was Jack's hand over Adrian's, turning the barrel of the gun toward himself. Jack had wanted to get out (mercenary business, Argentina, etc.) and he finally just gave up and ensured that Adrian would do it. What I also saw (or thought I saw) was Jack's hand squeeze Adrian's trigger finger as he was aiming the gun toward himself. Once thing puzzles me though, when the inevitable shot rings out around the apartment block and we see all the reactions from the tenants (i.e. TV volumes being turned up and winces and gasps all round including that of Laura) why then does she call at zero to ask whether he has heard from Jack...and what has happened to most of the furniture?

(Donna)This is something that has been puzzling me. I thought that maybe Jack's killings were hits. Claudia became an innocent bystander because she recognized him. Then he had to kill that fellow to get his passport. Or had Jack gone off the deep end and became a loose cannon serial killer? My take on this was that Jack was originally a paid political assassin, but when his services were no longer needed he could not stop himself and became a serial killer. (Karen)but I'm leaning toward the carnival/circus worker, which segues perfectly to the cat discussion.... ;- (Moon)LOL! In Spanish it it carnaval. It is closer to carnivero, carnivorous or carnicero, butcher. My Webster's New World Dictionary lists the following etymology for carnival: ML carnelevarium; carnem levare, to remove meat (see carnage and lever); associated by folk etymology with ML, carne vale, "Flesh, farewell!" Carnival (Mardi Gras in New Orleans) is also the period of merrymaking before Lent. During Lent one would abstain from eating meat�flesh, farewell. One more thing: what is a popular side show at a carnival? The shooting gallery.

Wonderful research work, Lisa, although it does not address the important fact that Jack was a lovely piece of meat. ;-0

(Lynda), which is why he allows Adrian to kill him at the end. (Moon)We do not see exactly what happens when Jack is killed, the camera pulls away, so we do not really know if Jack just lets Adrian kill him. It was a struggle, it could have been either one. On my screen, Adrian kills Jack. Adrian planned to kill him...sitting there on the bathtub rim (an odd place to contemplate such an action!)with his legs in an inverted V position. He expressly went out in the sitting room and lunged for the case with the gun...why else would he want to get a gun?

(Evelyn), On my screen, Adrian kills Jack. Adrian planned to kill him...sitting there on the bathtub rim (an odd place to contemplate such an action!)with his legs in an inverted V position. He expressly went out in the sitting room and lunged for the case with the gun...why else would he want to get a gun? He was going over the events of the evening.It seemed to me that Adrian felt he had to get the guns away from Jack. He thought he might be next. He wanted to protect himself. I do not see Adrian planning to kill Jack. (Karen), When did Adrian dream of Claudia? There is a scene with different shots of Claudia and the next scene is Adrian waking up in bed, a bit shaken. (Heide), I don't dislike Adrian. He has a dry sense of humor that appeals to me. I think I could get along with Adrian on a man to woman base. ;-) He's given some great lines - There are lots of good lines: "People like you don�t grow on trees" "The dark is safe, in the dark I seem real" "If that is a mask take it off now or keep it on forever" An aside, I notice a prevalence of photos of homosexual or bisexual male film stars - Montgomery Clift, Charles Laughton, James Dean. Coincidence? What? Charles Laughton maybe but Monty and Dean? I had no clue! (Gi), Thinking oneself superior is the most basic line of defense for an insecure person. (Moon) Unless the person really has a reason to feel superior. (Heide),Ah yes, where there is a real superiority of mind, pride will always be in good regulation.;-) I knew you would fall for it! ;-D (Heide), Adrian doesn't want to get used to this Jack. So which "Jack" does Adrian become in the end? He physically transforms himself, he even smokes. We can assume that Adrian does not want to go back to being his old self. He can�t, too much has happened. (Lisa),I can imagine a small child taking one look at Jack and running out of the room screaming. Jack is the worse type. He can smile his way into and out-off anything. It is fun to see how Adrian's knowledge of the cinema pushes people away, whereas Martin Donovan's script -- chock full of movie references -- engages and draws the audience in. This is definitely a movie lover's movie. And here we are! J Do you think Adrian gets caught for murdering Jack and assisting with the disposal of Claudia? Does he continue to kill? I think Adrian gets away with it. (But maybe we can talk Martin Donovan into doing a sequel). ;-) (Donna),I thought that maybe Jack's killings were hits. Claudia became an innocent bystander because she recognized him. Then he had to kill that fellow to get his passport. You are correct, that is what happens. Jack was ready to leave the Country instead he found himself stuck in a situation and he had to act. He was not a cannon serial killer but he had to kill those two for the obvious reasons. At the end he might have thought that he might not be able to stop killing and that probably affected him psychologically. Tracy), What I also saw (or thought I saw) was Jack's hand squeeze Adrian's trigger finger as he was aiming the gun toward himself. This comes the closest to what I saw. So we can assume that Jack killed himself. Once thing puzzles me though, when the inevitable shot rings out around the apartment block and we see all the reactions from the tenants (i.e. TV volumes being turned up and winces and gasps all round including that of Laura) why then does she call at zero to ask whether he has heard from Jack...and what has happened to most of the furniture? At this point the tennants are not going back up to Apt. 0 and accuse Adrian again. The furniture seems to be left in disarray. Adrian has not picked anything up. He is ging through his changes at this point. He is no longer the tidy English man he once was. Lisa), etymology with ML, carne vale, "Flesh, farewell!" I like this one.

Do you think Adrian gets caught for murdering Jack and assisting with the disposal of Claudia? Does he continue to kill? (Moon)I think Adrian gets away with it. Jack was already dead according to the authorities...didn't the man in the raincoat tell him that? I don't think Adrian continues to kill...his new persona doesn't go that far... Of course, IMO , his new persona also is certifiably insane.. He was on the edge before, the killing pushed him over the edge. BTW...did anyone hear buzzing sounds, like flies, in the scene where he's serving wine to Jack's cadaver? An aside, I notice a prevalence of photos of homosexual or bisexual male film stars -Montgomery Clift, Charles Laughton, James Dean. Coincidence? (Moon)What? Charles Laughton maybe but Monty and Dean? I had no clue! Yup...they all have a big gay following.

(Evelyn), Jack was already dead according to the authorities...didn't the man in the raincoat tell him that? Huh? A man in a raincoat said that? When? BTW...did anyone hear buzzing sounds, like flies, in the scene where he's serving wine to Jack's cadaver? Yes, it was so creepy. The flies were flying around Jack's face. Yuk!

(Evelyn), Jack was already dead according to the authorities...didn't the man in the raincoat tell him that? You mean that agent. But he told Jack. Adrian did not know this.

(Evelyn), Jack was already dead according to the authorities...didn't the man in the raincoat tell him that? (Moon)Huh? A man in a raincoat said that? When? In the men's room... (Moon)You mean that agent. But he told Jack. Adrian did not know this. I know...but no one would miss Jack since he was already officially"dead". Therefore Adrian would get away with it...which is the original question that someone asked.

Italics closed, sorry.

Apologies if this favorite line has already been stated (I don't recall seeing it), and apologies if I've got it wrong: "Don't try and confuse me, because you'll only ... confuse me." And Monty Clift. Sigh. He was my first big crush. Then I read his bio, and was crushed. Of course, I never was able to look at Merv Griffin again in the same way (tee hee, you have to read the book). However he still is a heck of an actor and shares the subtle qualities that we tend to like in our men. :-)

Comparison with Psycho: 1) Both had a room to rent. 2) Both had a warped relationship with their mothers. 3) Both have snoopy neighbors. 4) Both live high up. 5) Both kill. Has anyone else noticed the scene where Adrian dreams of Claudia? What can we tell of their relationship?

(Donna),I thought that maybe Jack's killings were hits. Claudia became an innocent bystander because she recognized him. Then he had to kill that fellow to get his passport. (Moon) You are correct, that is what happens. Jack was ready to leave the Country instead he found himself stuck in a situation and he had to act. He was not a cannon serial killer but he had to kill those two for the obvious reasons. At the end he might have thought that he might not be able to stop killing and that probably affected him psychologically. Now I am confused. I watched AZ again a few weeks ago, so perhaps my memory is a little cloudy, but were the first two murders in the film "hits?" I may be wrong, but I don't remember the news coverage of the first murder supporting this. Plus, if Jack is still an assassin and not a serial killer, why would the neighbors be worried about their own lives? They weren't involved politically; were they only worried that the killer could be living amongst them? Wasn't the second murder a woman (the one before the guy with the passport), and isn't the cross that Jack gives to Adrian ( for his mother) from the dead woman? Is there anything in the film to support that this murder is a "hit?" I am trying to remember if this is when Jack met up with the other guy (when Adrian was following Jack to work), thus receiving his instructions and money. Also, why didn't Jack just steal the guy's passport, as he did Adrian's? Or do you think Jack got caught in the act and then had to kill him? Didn't Jack say to Adrian something to the effect that now that he (Jack) was longer needed, no one would take responsibility for what he had become? BTW, I also looked up (online) the origin and meaning of the name Jack. Most sites listed Jack as a variation on John. One site, however, showed the name Jack as Hebrew in origin, the name as meaning "supplanter": someone (or something) that takes the place of another, usually by force. Time to pull out all the Beatle albums and play them backwards for clues! ;-)

(Moon) You are correct, that is what happens. Jack was ready to leave the Country instead he found himself stuck in a situation and he had to act. He was not a cannon serial killer but he had to kill those two for the obvious reasons. At the end he might have thought that he might not be able to stop killing and that probably affected him psychologically. (Lisa), were the first two murders in the film "hits?" I may be wrong, but I don't remember the news coverage of the first murder supporting this. Plus, if Jack is still an assassin and not a serial killer, why would the neighbors be worried about their own lives? The neighbors never suspected Jack, they suspected Adrian. We can assume that Jack was a hit man from 1) The agent that speaks to him. He probably has been working for him all along. 2) The military picture that Adrian finds of Jack. We later see the same symbol in the background at the theatre during the lecture that Christian gives. Wasn't the second murder a woman (the one before the guy with the passport), and isn't the cross that Jack gives to Adrian ( for his mother) from the dead woman? Is there anything in the film to support that this murder is a "hit?" I considered that woman to be a hit. It shows us that Jack also kills women and it sets it up for the end when he kills Claudia. I agree about the cross, Jack probably took it from that dead woman and planned to give it to Adrian for his mother. A gift of friendship. Also, why didn't Jack just steal the guy's passport, as he did Adrian's? Or do you think Jack got caught in the act and then had to kill him? How could he just steal the guy�s passport? He had to kill him. With Adrian it was easier. Adrian was sleeping in his room and he knew where to find it. the name Jack as Hebrew in origin, the name as meaning "supplanter": someone (or something) that takes the place of another, usually by force. Time to pull out all the Beatle albums and play them backwards for clues! ;-) LOL! Maybe we will hear Apt. 0 on # 9. ;-)

(Moon) We can assume that Jack was a hit man from 1) The agent that speaks to him. He probably has been working for him all along. 2) The military picture that Adrian finds of Jack. We later see the same symbol in the background at the theatre during the lecture that Christian gives. Yes, I remember all of this, and do not doubt that he WAS a hit man; rather, I had originally thought that he was crossing over to serial killer during the course of the film. (Moon) The neighbors never suspected Jack, they suspected Adrian. Didn't the neighbors suspect Adrian only toward the end of the film when they thought he had murdered Jack and Adrian fell over the railing of the stairs? I was not implying that the neighbors ever suspected Jack, but rather they were fearful of a killer on the loose in Buenos Aires.