Currently showing at the Donmar! I'd love to see CF getting an award (long overdue!), but I always think the odds are stacked against him. I even hold my breath about his reviews! But maybe the tide will turn. I've really enjoyed reading the above discussion...only lack of time has prevented me from contributing. Will try to add some points over the weekend.

He is too handsome. Pretty boys don't get awards: everybody thinks success comes too easy to them.

Pretty boys don't get awards, says Arami. So THAT'S why my mantlepiece is so bare, darn it. ;-) If only my jaw were a little flabbier, my eyes a little duller, my cheekbones a little vaguer and my butt not so firm...I'd be drowning in awards. Or maybe it's because I've as much acting talent as a gnat. A gnat that's very bad at acting.

(Arami) Pretty boys don't get awards: everybody thinks success comes too easy to them. The latter part is remarkably close to a line (and theme) in The Way We Were. (Ben) Or maybe it's because I've as much acting talent as a gnat. A gnat that's very bad at acting. Should we be looking for you in Antz or A Bug's Life? ;-) I've been thinking about Hugh a little bit. Very strange relationship that appears to exist between him and Robert. As I said before, there is no Hugh in RL's book, in fact, I don't think he mentions any friends from the regiment at all (Evelyn??) At the Stubbs' home, Colin actually has a sadistic look in his eye when he refers to Hugh. He taunts him constantly. Is he keeping Hugh around to make him feel guilty? It's almost like they feed off each other. Also, at the bar before they ship out, Tug says to Robert: "That man is not your friend, Robert..." What is he?

(Ben)A gnat that's very bad at acting. You alluded to performing at the Donmar once as a "young thesp"...Or am I mistaken..... care to expand on that? ****** Guardsman Mc Taggart was with him when he was hit...but he would not have been a friend since I assume that rank is enlisted. **** Tug says to Robert: "That man is not your friend, Robert..." What is he? I have wondered about that remark. Robert's remark to that is interesting too: Yes, he is.Tug. He'll do it . To be honest , he'll do what I tell him. He is almost obsessed with the fear of being a "cripple". Does he blame Hugh for his condition?

So THAT'S why my mantlepiece is so bare, darn it. ;-) (Ben) Well, we don't judge men by their mantlepieces! :-) A few points, picking up on earlier discussion threads, particularly the impact of/recovery from the war experience, and the use of bayonets. It's been well documented that close combat is much more traumatic than the more detached experience of smart, or semi-smart weaponry. Air bomber commands don't watch their victims die, or hear them plead for mercy. The bayonet was used extensively in WW1 and was notoriously unreliable as a killing tool. Infantry men had to plunge the bayonet in several times, it would sometimes break, become imbedded in bone. Killing a man took time, and soldiers, often decent and sensitive men, had to live with the very real memory of the "enemy" they had killed. Some soldiers in WW1 committed suicide because they were tormented by guilt. Many suffered from post-war trauma and depression. There's a very moving poem by Wilfred Owen who was killed in 1918, which I think relates directly to RL's experiences in "Tumbledown", and shows that wars never change and, most emphatically, "it's not worth it". Some quotes (not the entire poem) from "Disabled".. He sits in a wheeled chair, waiiting for dark, And shivered in his ghastly suit of grey, Legless, sewn short at elbow. Through the park Voices of boys rang saddening like a hymn, Voices of play and pleasure after day, Till gathering sleep had mothered them from him. Ah he was handsome when he used to stand Each evening on the curb of the quays. His old soft cap slung half-way down his ear: Proud of his neck, scarfed with a sunburn band, And of his curl, and all his reckless gear, Down to the gloves of sun-brown on his hand. ........ Some cheered him home, but not as crowds cheer Goal. Only a solemn man who brought him fruits Thanked him, and then enquired about his soul. Now he will spend a few sick years in Institutes And do what things the rules consider wise, And take whatever pity they may dole. Tonight he noticed how the women's eyes Passed from him to strong men that were whole. How cold and late it is! Why don't they come And put him into bed? Why don't they come? Mandatory reading for all those who consider war a great and glorious endeavour?

Quote too much Owen and I'll start to cry... Too awful. Have you read any other Great War poets - Brooke, Sassoon, Graves? Heart-rending stuff, all of it - the ghastly carnage destroying more than millions of lives - but Owen is my favourite.

Have we read any other Great War poets, Ben? Ahem, I guess you're not familiar with the radioplay, The One Before the Last based on Rupert Brooke's relationship with Ka Cox (and other equally complicated affairs). Guess who plays Rupert Brooke? And since our horizons are ever expanding due to the varied repertoire of our boy, yes, many of us have read at least Brooke if not the others. (Karen) Also, at the bar before they ship out, Tug says to Robert: "That man is not your friend, Robert..." What is he? A doormat? Another example of Hugh being treated like crap - by Robert, by his girlfriend. Yes, what is Hugh's purpose? An example of the only person who can understand him because he's been through it with him? He keeps saying how Hugh is jealous of him. Perhaps, but your comment, Eveyln, He is almost obsessed with the fear of being a "cripple". Does he blame Hugh for his condition? makes me think perhaps Robert is jealous of Hugh too since Hugh came out "whole". Another scene from the screenplay I wish we had seen...the Swedish "prostitute" who comes to the hospital.

Have we read any other Great War poets, Ben? Ahem, I guess you're not familiar with the radioplay, The One Before the Last based on Rupert Brooke's relationship with Ka Cox (and other equally complicated affairs). Guess who plays Rupert Brooke? And since our horizons are ever expanding due to the varied repertoire of our boy, yes, many of us have read at least Brooke if not the others. (Karen) Also, at the bar before they ship out, Tug says to Robert: "That man is not your friend, Robert..." What is he? A doormat? Another example of Hugh being treated like crap - by Robert, by his girlfriend. Yes, what is Hugh's purpose? An example of the only person who can understand him because he's been through it with him? He keeps saying how Hugh is jealous of him. Perhaps, but your comment, Eveyln, He is almost obsessed with the fear of being a "cripple". Does he blame Hugh for his condition? makes me think perhaps Robert is jealous of Hugh too since Hugh came out "whole". Another scene from the screenplay I wish we had seen...the Swedish "prostitute" who comes to the hospital.

Sorry, must have hit the "response" button twice.

Quote too much Owen and I'll start to cry... The one that makes me cry is Brooke's... THE SOLDIER If I should die, think only this of me: That there's some corner of a foreign field That is forever England. There shall be In that rich earth a richer dust concealed; A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware, Gave, once her flowers to love, her ways to roam, A body of Englands's breathing English air, Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home. .......

(bethan), Some soldiers in WW1 committed suicide because they were tormented by guilt. Many suffered from post-war trauma and depression. True and unfortunately, they didn't have all the psychologists out in full force ready to help them with their trauma as they do now. It was all too new. Reagarding Hugh, Robert may wish to be around him as a reminder that he did not fullfil his promise, that his handicap is partly Hugh's fault. Hugh may feel this as well, and spends time with Robert as to recapture the past before the Tumbledown.

I forgot to mention last night that my knowledge of Rupert Brooke's poems comes from Evelyn who very kindly brought back a book of his poems from when she was in London last autumn. Back to Robert...how about that left shoulder motion as he kisses Sophie? (Need a bit of levity here.)

Back to Robert...how about that left shoulder motion as he kisses Sophie? (Need a bit of levity here.) Didn't he do that in FP too when he kissed Ruth Gemell?

Just popping in to add some of my thoughts re: Tumbledown. 1 - Robert's aggressive attitude: As I see it Robert Lawrence's aggression was essential for his recovery, in two ways: a) I think it was his aggression that gave him the force to get through this dreadful time, to get over this terrible injury. I suppose that's why the physio therapist tries to provoke him by showing him how helpless he his, by showing him off as a cripple. I see that provocation as the (successful) attempt to set free through his aggression the adrenaline that keeps Robert going, the attempt to mobilise the inner forces he needs to get through the tortures of his recovery. The way Robert was treated by t e medical staff etc. not only woke his aggression but through that his ambition to recover, to proof that he is still there and �not a cripple" - Of course he has been ambitious before and a less strong character wouldn't have recovered so well, I think. b) The other reason, why I think his aggression was essential for his recovery is, that I'm convinced that in his situation he simply had to be an embarrassment to the persons in charge, otherwise it would have been too easy for them to ignore him, to put him aside, to cut back his rights and needs. - perfect example: the doctors who were talking as if he hadn't been there too. 2 - As much as I like the film I think he didn't really convey Robert Lawrence's intention of telling his story, as I understood it reading his book. I think his aim is not only to tell how well he has recovered but more under what circumstances, to show that there are two classes of returning soldiers: The ones who have not been injured or at last not so seriously that they couldn't return to the live they've lived before and the ones like him who had been seriously ill in a way that it had changed their future live completely and who just want to be treated with the same respect and esteem but don't get it without fighting for it. I'd say his idea w s to show a dark side of war that most people don't realise (or simply ignore) and that's not the cruelty and the horror of the battle but the cruelty of an every day live one is exposed to in the case one returns from war in a state like Robert Lawrence's, to show the disrespect and (perhaps even worse) the ignorance of the people you've risk your life for - however they may think of it's necessity; to show at what length one has to go to gain back or not to lose ones dignity. I think in the book there are some good examples of that which they left out in the film, alas. And in the book Robert Lawrence mentions a good question: what would have happened if all this had happened to a �simple" soldier from �nowhere" with a father working I don't know where, in a coal mine or whatever, who wouldn't have know as his father had known as a senior officer where to go, to whom to address and who has been able to put in all his efforts to get the best for his son. Just my interpretation.

I agree, Kirsten that it was Robert's "aggressive" attitude that pulled him through. A attitude, of course, that he always had - witness his pre-injury scenes, especially the bar scene. I don't particularly like the guy but that's meaningless. he didn't really convey Robert Lawrence's intention of telling his story, as I understood it reading his book. Do you mean the writers or director didn't convey it? I think Colin did what was called for in the script. Good point about what happened to the other wounded soldiers whose fathers were not military men. You could argue that Robert fought the system for all of the men. Too bad that wasn't shown in the film - we see the others languishing in the hospital but don't really know what happened to them. That shoulder roll when he kisses - one of my favorite signature CF mannerisms.

Agree with Kirsten on the aggression and determination . (Kirsten)....he didn't really convey Robert Lawrence's intention of telling his story, as I understood it reading his book. (Heide)Do you mean the writers or director didn't convey it? I think Colin did what was called for in the script. Agree with both of you...Yes, Colin did depict RL in the script ..but Charles Wood the screenplay writer didn't follow the "spirit" of the book.Colin's RL not as aggressive ...the book is not anti-war (I use this term in the vernacular...no one is pro-war!)And IMO the film was.However, CW says in the forward that this is a drama and not a documentary.Robert was not ashamed to have been in the Falklands War...felt it was justified...Charles Wood has another opinion . I wonder if Colin didn't get a BAFTA because the film was so controversial.Although the film did get the BAFTA that year. "

(Kirsten)....he didn't really convey Robert Lawrence's intention of telling his story, as I understood it reading his book. (Heide)Do you mean the writers or director didn't convey it? I think Colin did what was called for in the script. (Karen)Yes, Colin did depict RL in the script ..but Charles Wood the screenplay writer didn't follow the "spirit" of the book. Yes, that's what I meant to say.

Ooops, sorry, the last quote was from Evelyn, not Karen.

Any opinions on Robert's father? mother? brothers? Which Robert do you think was the most complex for CF to play? Robert, pre-injury; injured Robert; post-injury Robert. Anybody detect any Darcy mannerisms?

I will respond to your questions later, Heide. But after viewing T. again....I saw a parallel between George Stubbs and Charles Wood, the author. Both were professed pacicfists, and interviewed Robert in order to tell his story.Both admired Robert though, "each held different political views" from Robert. Both George and Charles Wood had served in the military. Do you think Charles Wood wrote himself into this film in the character of George Stubbs?

I am late to this discussion, as I only recently requested and received the tape of TD. Please forgive me if I am revisiting some of the themes discussed earlier.... The images of disability and impotence were prominent in the film. IMO, RL was not the only one in TD who was disabled or powerless. Some people enter the so-called *helping professions* because of their inability to heal themselves. Therefore, the disabled are tending to the disabled. During RL�s convalescence in the hospital, the night nurses were more concerned about how he had violated their privacy (by involuntarily listening to their conversations) than the fact that they were violating RL�s dignity. The nurses/ physical therapists (and their patronizing use of the *hospital we*) were almost dumbfounded by Robert� burst of anger as they forced him to look in the mirror. The arrogant chaplain could not tend to RL�s spirit�. The only person who treated RL with a modicum of respect was the doctor who offered him a beer. (I seem to be in the minority in thinking that the hospital scenes were not exaggerated. Guess you have had better experiences with the medical profession than I.) I am curious: do you think that RL (as portrayed by CF) is devoid of self-pity?

Two very good questions: (Evelyn) Do you think Charles Wood wrote himself into this film in the character of George Stubbs? I'd never thought of this. From your references to the real Robert Lawrence, I've gathered there never was a Stubbs. Always thought of them as the method used for Robert to tell his story. It makes perfect sense then for Wood to interject himself into the story. He admires Robert and finds him fascinating though he seems to look at him as a case study. Lisa, your points were very thoughtful too. do you think that RL (as portrayed by CF) is devoid of self-pity? Very good question and right now I'd have to say yes. When does he ever express any self-pity? He cries but it is for his men he thinks he's lost, not for himself. That presents another interesting insight into the man.

One more thing...I must say while I'm not enamoured of soldiers I do like those uniforms. Not that I fall for just any man in a uniform but if he's wearing a beret...well!! I hate to admit to being so shallow, but I can't help those base urges.

(Evelyn) He is almost obsessed with the fear of being a "cripple." Does he blame Hugh for his condition? For someone whose profession required he be "fit," what could be worse than being a cripple? The army had no jobs for him in that state. With his limited perspective (upbringing), he could not envision living as anything other than a soldier. I do think he blamed Hugh and that might explain some of the comments directed at Hugh that I thought were cruel and/or sadistic. (Bethan) It's been well documented that close combat is much more traumatic than the more detached experience of smart, or semi-smart weaponry...Some soldiers in WW1 committed suicide because they were tormented by guilt. Many suffered from post-war trauma and depression. Very true what you say about killing at close range; the same is echoed in RL's words on the TV show and in the scene in the movie with Pete Postewaite. However, I didn't get a sense either from his book or the movie that he was traumatized or tormented by the experience. Not to say that it was done "all in a day's work," but there is the exchange between George and Robert where Robert says he is not "ashamed" and George calls him a killer who "does not apologize." Robert tells the Postewaite character t at "It didn't feel like anything." Some cheered him home, but not as crowds cheer Goal. Only a solemn man who brought him fruits Thanked him, and then enquired about his soul. Thank you, Bethan, for bringing in some poetry to our discussion. Most appropriate. (Heide) An example of the only person who can understand him because he's been through it with him?...makes me think perhaps Robert is jealous of Hugh too since Hugh came out "whole". Robert says: "In lots of ways I don't think dear old Hugh knows what I've been through." Maybe he isn't really referring to the fighting, but the aftermath (hospitals, military bureaucracy, etc.). If he is jealous of Hugh, IMO, it would only be because Hugh could go on being a soldier. Hugh is more screwed up psychologically than Robert. (Heide) Another scene from the screenplay I wish we had seen...the Swedish "prostitute" who comes to the hospital. Oh, yes, his *other* physiotherapy! I like the description of the action: "Robert is nonplussed. Ingrid slides her hand under the coverlet." Then as she leaves, Robert says, "Well done, Ingrid." Robert apparently believes at that point that his injuries extend to that area as well. Agree that scene needed to be there. Otherwise, how could he go to Sophie's? (Heide) how about that left shoulder motion as he kisses Sophie? (Evelyn) Didn't he do that in FP too when he kissed Ruth Gemell? Yes, but in this one he really grinds that shoulder. I've watched it a million times and never get tired of it...and the preceding bit getting out of bed!! Oooowheeeee!! (Kirsten) As I see it Robert Lawrence's aggression was essential for his recovery Absolutely. Makes you wonder if someone less determined/aggressive by nature would have had such a successful recovery. You have to want to overcome these types of things. It's far easier to sit back and live on a disability pension and be bitter. Robert's inherent dislike of limitations made that choice impossible. (Kirsten) As much as I like the film I think he didn't really convey Robert Lawrence's intention of telling his story, as I understood it reading his book. RL's book came out after the movie, and I expect that Lawrence wanted to expand on his experience. So in some respects, your observation is correct, Kirsten. The movie doesn't (perhaps couldn't) delve that deeply into his life afterward. Lawrence was intimately involved in the making of the movie and formed a production company with Wood. What I see is each little scene of frustration, ignorance and triumph attempts to show what Lawrence confronted in his battle to be recognized as a fully functioning a d contributing member of society. (Heide) I don't particularly like the guy but that's meaningless. Can't let that one go... Why do you find him unlikeable? (Heide) You could argue that Robert fought the system for all of the men. Too bad that wasn't shown in the film Maybe because he didn't. He did it for himself. There are scenes of concern for the injured members of his platoon, but we never see him really acting as an advocate for them. He seems to be a loner, looking for individual recognition. Maybe that's what Evelyn was referring to earlier about Robert not having the right personality for this profession??? (Heide) That shoulder roll when he kisses - one of my favorite signature CF mannerisms. Yeah, he can give me his signature any old time. (Evelyn) I wonder if Colin didn't get a BAFTA because the film was so controversial. Although the film did get the BAFTA that year. I think the film was controversial because of the antagonism going on between the government and the media, especially the BBC's alleged anti-Thatcherism. There were two other Falklands dramatizations in the works at the time, and the BBC was accused of only going forward on the ones that made the war/government look bad. (Heide) Any opinions on Robert's father? mother? brothers? Initially, I found the mother unsympathetic. Those scenes where she is more concerned that the dog and John's father felt what was happening to Robert during Tumbledown seemed selfish. But when she saw Robert in the hospital, I felt her own devastation and *her* interpretation of the words, "it wasn't worth it." All her pride of being a military wife and mother, seeing her son, in full ceremonial dress, performing in little Kodak moments was stripped away by the realities of war that she never consider d. She was only accustomed to the nice side. The brothers? Didn't get much of a sense of them. The father!! He's one for the books. I believe that he comes off pretty bad. Maybe that's just in my eyes. He is such a believer in the system. The epitome of privilege. (Heide) Anybody detect any Darcy mannerisms? I'm sure Darcy would have liked to have done a shoulder-grinding kiss after he and Elizabeth exchange looks during the piano scene at Pemberley! (Evelyn) Do you think Charles Wood wrote himself into this film in the character of George Stubbs? Excellent observation. The authorial voice. Makes perfect sense to me. (Lisa) I seem to be in the minority in thinking that the hospital scenes were not exaggerated. Guess you have had better experiences with the medical profession than I. I'm part of the minority (and not silent). I found the mirror and chaplain scene to be believable, but there were other medical professionals besides that one doctor who were sympathetic: the military nurse who tends him after his outing to King's Road. She tells him like it is, but not in a cruel way. (Lisa) do you think that RL (as portrayed by CF) is devoid of self-pity? I wouldn't expect someone like him to succumb to self-pity. He was from a military family; it wouldn't be allowed. If perhaps he regretted what he did, the choices he made in life, then he might feel sorry for himself. But our Bobbit is "a man of action." Isn't that how he is described? He takes responsibility for his actions. He wanted to fight. He knew the risks and accepted them. Now, all he had to do was overcome the public's image of him--a more difficult task than overcoming his physical limitat ons. (Heide) Not that I fall for just any man in a uniform but if he's wearing a beret...well!! I hate to admit to being so shallow, but I can't help those base urges. Base? What's base about that? I like him in his blue blazer and white pants with the fedora at the end. Yes'm! ;-)

(Heide) I don't particularly like the guy but that's meaningless. (Karen)Can't let that one go... Why do you find him unlikeable? Purely a personal level, Karen. He's got a huge ego, I never find that attractive. I think he likes the action to be centered around him. He's cocky and rude. At the Stubbs: "I know you don't like smoking" as he lights up a cigarette. Mr. Stubbs tells him it was fascinating to have met him. Robert just smiles as if he's thinking, of course I'm fascinating. He's good to his men, have no sense as to how he is with women. I'm not judging him during his recovery and of course I'm making my judgment ba ed not on any familiarity with the real Robert Lawrence other than the film. (Heide) You could argue that Robert fought the system for all of the men. Too bad that wasn't shown in the film. (Karen) Maybe because he didn't. He did it for himself. If that's true, simply another reason to dislike him. He is an officer, not just a grunt. Surely some responsibility there. Initially, I found the mother unsympathetic. Those scenes where she is more concerned that the dog and John's father felt what was happening to Robert during Tumbledown seemed selfish Never felt that. Many mothers (and I'm not one) say they can sense if something has happened to their child. You often hear of this after the fact and I'm not questioning that it happens so what would happen if your child is in a horrific accident and you had no clue until the hospital called. Where was your intuition? Are you an inadequate mother because you didn't sense it? I think Robert's mother was questioning her adequacy as a mother. Thinks if her father-in-law sensed it, she should have. The father can only talk about how brave Robert is and how proud he is of him. His mother could care less - she only cares that her son has been grievously injured. She doesn't care how it happened or how brave he was. I like him in his blue blazer and white pants with the fedora at the end. Yes'm! ;-) Glad we agree on the essentials.

Having part of one's brain destroyed CAN alter one's personality. A good example was that easygoing miner in the mid-1800's who blew a crowbar through his head tamping dynamite--didn't lose consciousness either and lived. But the path of the abr was from below, destroying one eye socket and a good part of the frontal lobes in the forehead. This is the seat of inhibitions and decision-making. His personality changed remarkably to an aggressive, argumentative man who died of extreme alcoholism. From what I saw of the damage, it was the right rear portion of RL's brain that was destroyed. This governs movement and sensation in the opposite side of the body. So, yes, the vast majority of the damage was in his movement, as the front of the brain did not appear to be damaged. He'd probably not exhibit severe alterations in personality--it looked to me that he was just as capable of being an unpleasant S.O.B. before the injury as after it!! I think Mrs. Stubbs was wary because she realized she was in the presence of men that were both shocked and shocking--Laughing or joking about the most grisly things, treating it all as a game...the one most nonchalant about the most horrifying details wins. It is a game to cover the trauma of what they were exposed to, but they were in turn exposing it to those around them. They had a willing audience in Mr. Stubbs, however. And Hugh. How could he blame Hugh for his present condition, which was being alive, though maimed. Watching how hard Robert fought to live and recover instead of giving up and dying, do you honestly think today he would say, "I'd rather be dead?" The jealousy comment, I think, just reflects on his personality...he is a bit of a bully, after all, if he is allowed to get away with it. Why Hugh tolerates such demeaning abuse may be his penance for coming back whole, it's true. Does that make him a bi of an enabler??

This thing about brain damage - I don't see it as automatic, just because one or another part is affected. Think what it does to your perception of yourself and your prospects in life, the loss of physical powers, the disfigurement, the anger, resentment, despair. From there it becomes severely psychological. It's easy to wallow in self-pity and one has every right to do so. It's a great victory if you don't allow it to destroy you in the end - RL has achieved that; the miner obviously didn't succeed.

(Arami) ..."brain damage - I don,t see it as automatic...It's a great victory if you don't allow it to destroy you in the end - RL has achieved that; the miner obviously didn't succeed." If by "to succeed" you mean that the miner could ultimately control his violent outbursts...sorry; That is like saying that RL will ultimately control the use of his left arm and hand. The"equipment" that controlled those functions was destroyed in both permanently. So it is, to a certain extent "automatic", I'm afraid. On the other hand, the effects of trauma and devestation are things that take tremendous inner strength to regain the sense of the self being in control of his own existance...in that, RL succeeded, but I,m afraid the miner couldn,t.

(Heide) I don't particularly like the guy but that's meaningless. Actually, it might not be that meaningless and may explain why Colin didn't receive the BAFTA. Rarely do unlikeable characters win Best Actor type awards. About the only one I can think of is George C. Scott for Patton. Even disgusting and evil characters like Hannibal Lector are likeable overall, but the way RL is portrayed by Wood you don't see if he has an likeable qualities other than to admire him for his bravery (maybe) and determination to overcome his disabilities. Another good-looking scene: When he takes off his tunic after the Key ceremony and you see him in the Human League t-shirt and braces. Not bad, not bad at all!!

It just so happens that HBOP is showing Hostages this month. It was on yesterday, but alas, I didn't have a blank tape. It will be on again on Friday/early Sat. Shall I tape it? There are some scenes that are not in the A&E version.

There are scenes cut from the A&E Hostages but I don't know how many people have this version. Mine is from HBO and many others have the actual video. Still, can't hurt to tape, Laura, if you've got an extra cassette lying around.

Will do, I can tape while I'm in bed (sleeping, really!) Have fun you guys, I'll miss you!

Yeah, but the bigger issue is sending the tape, isn't it Laura? ;-p

We're not finished with Tumbledown yet unless you want it to be. Any new viewers with fresh ideas? (Or old viewers with stale ones :)) I'm curious...why do you think Robert goes around showing pictures of his gory wounds to everyone? He also points to his head at the old man in the veteran"s (?) hospital and yells that he's proud of it, grandpa. What is he proud of? That he went to war? That his injury is a badge of honor? That he defied death by surviving? And we can get more base: Favorite looks? Mine is the tough soldier in his natty beret, Karen's is the post-injury Robert in his panama. There's another one I can think of but perhaps someone else would like to bring it up.

Oh goodie, I'd like to continue with Tumbledown!! (Heide) I'm curious...why do you think Robert goes around showing pictures of his gory wounds to everyone? I agree, Heide, he is proud of what he's done and his injuries are evidence that he, an officer, was in the thick of the battle. Remember, at the first hospital, where he asked about other officers. His implication being that perhaps other officers hung back and let the grunts clear the way; otherwise, they should have been in the ward too. Also, he is definitely a guy who goes for the shock value of is his actions. Like the bullying and belligerent attitudes he affects. He wants to shock people. Taking out pictures of one's head injuries is not the same as showing someone your grandchildren. And Robert knows he's going to show them to Mr and Mrs Stubbs. He says something like: "You always do." It has become a routing and Robert shows a certain sad acceptance that that is what Robert likes to do. ...on those baser things, remember my fav is the *fit* Robert jogging around the barracks! ;-)

I copied this quote of CF's from Jane's Article website before she took it down. Tumbledown was the most exciting film script to work on that I've ever had, and Charles Wood is the most underrated screenwriter possibly in the world! It's funny, you know, in the theater you can talk about a Mamet play, you can talk about going to a Pinter play, but you'd never talk about a Wood script. And I think that the writer 's position in terms of recognition in the business, is just appalling. We're nowhere without them. I've thought of Charles ever since I did Tumbledown. Nothing else has been interesting in the same way." Of course he might feel differently since SIL. At first I disagreed with Colin...thought the script had lots of holes but when I read it again, I changed my mind. (See....there's hope for me and FP!!) I think the flash-back technique is brilliant..esp. when he interjects the Bergen Man swaying , and confused....(symbolic of RL even in his postwar life??)throughout the script.And of course keeping the actual battle of Tumbledown til the end is v. innovative. Most war films begin with the battle. ***** Favorite Looks: For me has to be the ending at Chelsea Barracks. The Panama hat raised in salute. (Karen)There's another one I can think of but perhaps someone else would like to bring it up. The one in that big baggy sweater , like Walker in 3 DOR, ain't bad either. **** Karen)why do you think Robert goes around showing pictures of his gory wounds to everyone? Agree with Karen.This guy likes to shock people.Make them uncomfortable looking at his disability.As if to say: "this is your part...you have to view my injuries".

I sincerely hope Colin surprises us in the future...but I maintain that he did his best work ten years ago.

I sincerely hope Colin surprises us in the future...but I maintain that he did his best work ten years ago. So do I, so do I, Evelyn, hope for a surprise in the future I mean. And I still haven�t seen Tumbledown, have to get Heide�s tape converted. I just wish you�ll want to hear what I think of it by the time it�s done, even though everything about it has been already discussed here! WARNING: anybody who likes Fever Pitch, do not read the following: Fever Pitch is a disappointment to me, and NOT because of Colin, I think he did good and sincere work and is cute as hell in it. Yes, I�m getting used to that anti-Darcy style of Paul Ashworth, it�s rather touching actually. Poor Colin, how he must have suffered from the Darcy thing, to choose a role like that after it. Mr Ash worth is such an opposite to Mr. Ten thousand a year that it makes me laugh. But what surprised me is that FP is such a low budget film and worse is that the cast is so good while the film isn�t. You feel sorry for the excellent actors in such a film where so many simple but important things just suck. For instance, I don�t think that the story of Paul�s youth works in the film, it breaks the structure badly and the boy in Paul�s role is terrible!(Not to mention his hairdo). You�re right Evelyn, the screenplay of FP is not the best one in the world and I doubt very much that it�ll be a success in the US. Girls, I�m beginning to understand the desperate debate here about Colin�s career in January much better now. What he has done after P&P is good work in some pretty unsuccessful movies (FP, Nostromo, ATA) and some that haven�t even reached the market, and a small part in SiL....I�d love to know what he really thinks of his career and what the good reviews of 3DOR and the hordes of fans at his feet in Donmar mean to him. A LOT, I believe, and that�s why I�m glad that we were there to add our small part int the celebration.

(Karen) It has become a routing and Robert (Hugh?) shows a certain sad acceptance that that is what Robert likes to do. You mean Hugh there, right? And if so, you opened up another view into the relationship between R & H. It's a burden that Hugh has to bear for not finishing Robert off, for not being the one who was wounded. A burden that Robert likes to make a little heavier, perhaps. (Evelyn) I think the flash-back technique is brilliant. Absolutely and also very confusing. I had to watch it more than once to understand that the film is really three stories and they're interwoven beautifully. (Karen) on those baser things, remember my fav is the *fit* Robert jogging around the barracks! ;-) Of, of course. Those tight jeans! Does anyone know if CF had to go through any physical fitness training for this? Not that he's buff ;-) but he does look more beefed up and quite fit. I keep thinking of his very flat stomach as he hurriedly pulls his pants on in Sophie's flat. (Evelyn) I maintain that he did his best work ten years ago. Surprise, surprise, I don't necessarily disagree with you, Evelyn, and Elena too. But I'd say that it's not his work that was better 10 years ago but the work he's been in. After all, he never disappoints us, does he Evelyn, no matter what he's in. (Elena) WARNING: anybody who likes Fever Pitch, do not read the following: LOL, Elena. It's okay, sweetie, you bring up some very valid points and I'll defend your right to the end to air your opinion. Yes, I think the young Paul was awful and the production does look low budget. But I love the script because I think it reflects so accurately the mindset this man is in. I'm very glad you brought your viewpoint to us and I hope you keep doing so. We did a film discussion on FP awhile ago but I'm game to talk about it or any of his films any time.

(Elena) ..... I�m glad that we were there to add our small part int the celebration. Very well put, Elena. I think last Saturday was an emotional evening for him as well.He realized that he had fans all from over the world...that's why I kept telling him where everyone was from.It was a celebration and I hope the beginning of good offers from directors and producers who see his amazing talen and the fact that he has a following. **** Oh, ....FP is.. alright. But the guy has so much to offer to be in that nickel n' dime film!After I first viewed it, I remember telling Nan."Well, he doesn't have to get a BAFTA speech ready for that one." It grew on me somewhat after a few more viewings. Who knows.. it might do well in the US? I equate it to "The Waterboy",and it did Ok at the boxoffice. **** By all means, pl. tell us what you think of Tumbledown, Elena. It was a television production and also low-budget, but quality stuff.

Fever Pitch = The Waterboy?! No way, Josefina!!! It is just a nice romantic comedy. Nothing mind probing, but pleasant, whereas a Waterboy is money down the drain and the permanent loss of probably 90 minutes of my life that I will never regain. A complete waste of my time and money. I enjoyed watching Fever Pitch. It wasn't deep and it wasn't the best display for CF's talents, but I liked it. It was decent entertainment and I continue to hum the soundtrack. ;-)

(Elena) WARNING: anybody who likes Fever Pitch, do not read the following: I know we are not talking about FP but I had to say I agree, Elena. Paul Ashworth was a slob. Cute though Colinwas, I think he was too much gravitas to play a part like that. Alexander Walker, the eminent film critic of the Evenong Standard had a damning review of FP which I hated at the time but sanity has returned and I think he was right. I will see if it is still on their site and give you a link if I can. Re Colin's recent work. I am pleased that he is doing television again. As he said himself, television has given him some of the best satisfaction in terms of work. I think it is very hard for British film actors. British films do not get distributed and it is hard to get good Hollywood parts unless you play the Hollywood fame game.

That should read .....has too much gravitas... Do not read the following if you do not want to read a bad review http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/results.html?in_text=colin+firth&in_button=Go

(Allison)Cute though Colinwas, I think he was too much gravitas to play a part like that. Alexander Walker, the eminent film critic of the Evenong Standard had a damning review of FP which I hated at the time but sanity has returned and I think he was right. To continue...Trash FP Day......:-) Allison...You hit on the word I wanted gravitas. IMO he was desperate to shake the Darcy mantra and this was as far to the left as was available...short of a "George of the Jungle" genre. BTW I went to the E'vning Standard link but only found 3 DOR review.

What is the Darcy mantra , by the way? Or do you mean mantle? :-)

What is the Darcy mantra , by the way? Or do you mean mantle? :-) "I shall conquer this, I shall conquer this..." :-)

I loved Fever Pitch (not that anyone really cares, but just to contribute to the conversation). I think it was really honest in terms of depicting what can go through men's heads as they try to juggle both their romantic lives and their personal interests. Yes-- I know of men who seriously weigh their options between going spending wuality time with their sig. others, or staying home to watch the game on TV. Allison: As he said himself, television has given him some of the best satisfaction in terms of work. Good to hear he feels this way. I was always skeptical about his opinions re; telly. He's certainly well within his rights not to own one himself, but I was afraid he'd written the meduim off completely. I get really irritated by people who don't count TV as a legit. resource for the arts...that there's nothing but crap on it. It's one of the few places people with little money can go to get any type of exposure to the arts, when the theatre, opera, even films, are too pricey. And we know how much Colin s rives to become a "man of the people." OK, I'm jumping off my soapbox now...

yikes! lots of typo's and cut offs... I meant to say: "going and spending time with sig. others" and, "...we know how much Colin strives to become a 'man of the people.'"

(evelyn)What is the Darcy mantra , by the way? Or do you mean mantle? :-) "I shall conquer this, I shall conquer this..." :-) LOL! When do we start on 3DoR? something I have seen recently - forgive my egotism...

(Evelyn)BTW I went to the E'vning Standard link but only found 3 DOR review. Sorry about that. Haven't time to sort it out but if you go to Thisislondon site and search on Colin Firth, the review is number 11 of 11 hits. Winter. I think television is a more repsectable medium for an actor than it is in the States. It is not taken as a sign that your career is slipping if you take on roles in television drama. Look at DJD. She appears in soaps and she is la creme de la creme.

(Winter)I loved Fever Pitch (not that anyone really cares) What, no-one cares?! I do, I�m very interested to hear opposite views! And why couldn�t we talk here without apologies about all the stuff he has made, old or new, if we come up with something to say? Anyway, I watched FP the second time last night. Something is happening to me....I liked him as Paul A even more than the first time. Just WHAT is it in him that makes me this way, most other actors in films are quite unsignificant to me and I wouldn�t bother to watch their films twice.

(Elena), Anyway, I watched FP the second time last night. Something is happening to me....I liked him as Paul A even more than the first time. Just WHAT is it in him that makes me this way, most other actors in films are quite unsignificant to me and I wouldn�t bother to watch their films twice. You shall conquer this...you shall! (ONLY KIDDING!) Paul is just like a kid who needs love but also loves to play. It is the mother in all of us that gravitate to this character. My fav. scene is when he is asked to stay over at her place and he does a double take, walks straight over and kisses her. (That is the one I always rewind) (we seem to be tumbling down to a fever pitch)

All though I do not think it is a very good movie, I do think it has some wonderful Colin moments. I know we have discussed this before and we are supposed to be talking about Tumbledown but don't you love the scene at the parents evening when he is talking to Robert's mum? So cute. And when he says "go for the �12 seats, sting the bastard for all you can get..." Love it, well him actually:-)

Allison)All though I do not think it is a very good movie, I do think it has some wonderful Colin moments. We all concur on that.Dynamite soundtrack too. Like I told him...he never disappoints us. But the character in the script is never developed...the film just turns out to be a string of events.

Yes! the soundtrack is amazing, Evelyn. Thanks for picking it up for me. I listen to it every morning on my commute to school. I esp. love the first part, when it does his monologue on "anthropologists have always had a hard time with football." THIS anthropologist sure doesn't! ;-) Moon, you are so right. I think FP brings out my maternal side, in that I really sympathize with Paul as a lost, lonely boy, trying to find some sense of love and belonging just as his personal life came crashing down around him. The characters DID need a lot more development. But I will tell you this though, NH did manage to stay true to the psychology of sport obsession in the screenplay. Good god, it's scary. I watched part of it tonight BTW, and the one scene that I have personally relived over and over again was: -"It's only a game" -DON'T SAY THAT! PLEASE! That's the worst, most stupid thing anyone could say because it quite clearly isn't only a game..."

I really sympathize with Paul as a lost, lonely boy, trying to find some sense of love and belonging Sure but this man is supposed to be a TEACHER! Would you entrust the education of a child to this man? He had no interests apart from football and pop music and when put on the spot to some up with a D H Lawrence novel, could only think of Lady Chatterley's Lover. I am prepared to help Colin Firth find a sense of love and belonging anytime but as for Paul Ashworth:-))

(Allison), I am prepared to help Colin Firth find a sense of love and belonging anytime but as for Paul Ashworth:-)) LOL! Poor NH, he does need to group. Winter, if another man had said, its only a game, to Paul, he would have hit him(I am quite sure).

Correction, NH needs to grow up!

(moon) Correction, NH needs to grow up! His characters are doing just that in his subsequent books, but ever so slowly. What was Paul? 12ish. Rob (High Fidelity) is definitely teen-age, maybe around 17-18 in psychological development. Now, Will (AAB), he's a tad older. At this rate, I'll be dead and buried when NH's protagonists reach middle-age! ;-D

LOL!

My newest FP watching report: I�m falling in love with Paul A. I watched it the 3rd time today and every time I�ve found something new about that fine actor, what�s he called now. Funniest thing is that I�ve realized how much Paul actually resembles Mr. Darcy, I mean the various typical expressions in his face that can be found in Darcy�s face too......it�s so sweet. Btw, among many other moments, I like it when he�s alone at home and gets up from his bed in his underwear. Dunno why :-D

Oh my God, that wonderful grey sleepsuit....those wonderful legs..slurp...slurp...

(Elena) I�m falling in love with Paul A. Me too. Throwing all practical matters out the window, I would have run back to him too. "...and I don't know where he can be, my baby, but I'm gonna find him."

Elena) I�m falling in love with Paul A. Don't. He's bad news. Better stick with Joe Prince:-) As Winter says;"You could be sure he'd be there in the morning". Paul would be off to an Arsenal game with the boys ...and after that the pub:-)

Evelyn: Don't. He's bad news. Better stick with Joe Prince:-) As Winter says;"You could be sure he'd be there in the morning". good god! I said that a year ago, I think. And you remember that? But, sisters... It's the masochist/dysfunctional girlfriend in me. I went out with a Paul Ashworth for 6 years. I know, I know, women deserve better (I deserve better!), but a lot of us end up cringing when a Joe Prince actually does come into our lives...we think, "what am I doing with this guy?! He's too nice!" The football fanatic has become, sickly enough, the late 20th century version of the dark, brooding love-interest.

(winter)a lot of us end up cringing when a Joe Prince actually does come into our lives...we think, "what am I doing with this guy?! He's too nice!" After we have been hurt enough times, we grow up...I hope!

Are we still on Tumbledown? During our stay in London we were able to put our hands on a very interesting book �The British Television Drama In The 1980s" And there's a chapter by Geoffrey Reeves about �Tumbledown (Charles Wood) and The Falklands Play (Ian Curteis)". Seems to be an interesting and insightful study. I don't know wether you already know it but if Tumbledown is still our subject and if you're interested I'll post some quotes. Let me know.

Kirsten, I really think we could be on anything he has done, makes it much more interesting....if nobody hasn�t anything against it? Also, isn�t it time for us to talk about 3DOR too? I�ll try now even though I think all of this has already been said. Firstly, I�m so glad that he chose to be in 3DOR, it shows something about his intelligence again, and careful thinking. The play was an opportunity for him to show a new side of his professional skills and it was about 100% or more up to what I expected of him (although I must confess that I was a LITTLE bit afraid that the play might be terrible and Colin too!!!!). I also liked it that the play was so intimate and �small�, and that things mostly happened through words and expressions which is exactly what Colin is so good at. ....Oh god, I must stop for now, one should never try to post at work, people are running around, talking to me and peeking curiously at the screen over my shoulder!

Kirsten (gasp!!) You found that book! I'm impressed. I have information on the Curteis play and have read it. He has a long intro explaining what went on and why his teleplay got its plug pulled. Also, Wood's intro to Tumbledown mentions Curteis' big broughaha and tries to disassociate their work from his. Where shall we talk about 3DOR? Here or 118?

3DOR - no complain from my side. (Karen if you'Re interested in a copie of that article I may send it to you by mail or fax if possible (cheaper). Please let me know) (Karen) Where shall we talk about 3DOR? Here or 118? I'd prefer to discuss it here. It's easier to follow if the discussion isn't muddled up with other things. What do you think? But first I have to work on the pics to be put up.

Here would be fine, I think. Same reasons as Kirsten.

(Winter).The football fanatic has become, sickly enough, the late 20th century version of the dark,brooding love-interest. God forbid.It's a long life girls...... **** Winter....don't you remember ranking "3 characters of CF that we liked most and why" (your idea!during the dearth of news last spring!) And you mentioned that about Joe Prince.V. insightful. Obviously , it impressed me..re: your maturity....don't tell me I was wrong!! **** 3 DOR discussion here, please.But give us a little lead time to read it. Elena...please continue with 3 DOR when we get to discuss it. Is this the first American play you have seen?I know some people were apprehensive about understanding an American accent. **** But I'm not finished with T.I would like to hear Kirsten's comments from the book, please.

(Evelyn) understanding an American accent I thought I wouldn�t understand the American accent in 3DOR but the accent was not that American, was it? Maybe the director should have let the actors articulate the way they do normally, because trying to imitate an accent usually fails more or less. Am I wrong if I remember that Colin�s first line �Meanwhile, back in the city....two nights of insomnia� was his only clearly American accented bit?! Not that I�m an expert in English accents, you guys know this so much better. AND I love his British articulation. I do not know why it sounds so sexy to me, a funny thing really that an accent can be erotic.....my god, I think I�ll have to watch FP for the fourth time..... **** Evelyn, just to make sure, did you receive that email of mine on Monday? I got the impression yesterday in Chat that you didn�t.

(Elena)but the accent was not that American, was it? IMO he did....trans-Atlantic (generic American). I do agree that his voice is showcased better with a British accent. I think the British vowels resonate better. But we better ask our resident linguist, Winter. *** No, I did not receive an email from you this week :-(

Hi all...just stopping by before I get down to grading final exams this weekend (and meeting up with Ben and Jana2 for lunch on Saturday!) Evelyn--you're right, I did say that about Joe Prince. I was just in awe that you've managed to remember something I posted so long ago. But I have terrible memory to begin with...:-) re Accents: I don't play any musical instruments, nor am I talented in any sports, but I have been known to have an ear for tracing accents (scared the bejezus out of a lady at a sandwich shop in Nevada when I asked her if she was from Minnesota). Anyone have a soundbite from his performance? Many Brit actors tend to be inconsistent with vowel enunciation-- particularly the O's as in "sorry" and A's as in "bland." I wonder if he ever tried speaking to his son in more of an American (Californian) accent, t practice. Hopefully not, we wouldn't want ODB's language peppered with "like" or even worse, "dude!" On an aside-- I always wondered how much Jennifer Ehle had to work on changing her American accent to Brit. She spent most of her life in the States, and during the formative years, you're more likely to pick up the accent you are more exposed to.

( Winter) On an aside-- I always wondered how much Jennifer Ehle had to work on changing her American accent to Brit. She spent most of her life in the States, and during the formative years, you're more likely to pick up the accent you are more exposed to. Interesting comment esp since I am sending you a tape of a TV interview she gave in UK last month on "This Morning; the presenter asked her the same question. She said that she can go from one accent to the other easily.Actually she went to school in UK also and her mum is British, as you know.So was her nanny. British accent is her natural one, apparently. (Best southern accent I ever heard was by her mom in "Street Car..."It must be a family trait.) BTW did you know that Mel Gibson was b. in Poughkeepsie, NY...lived there till he was 12 and then moved to Australia.And Bob Hope was b. and raised in England!!

Since Moon provided that lovely quote from the play, let's start talking about the play. Even though not everyone has seen it, many more have the script in their hot little hands and have read it. So here goes: Ned is the most important character in the play. His mood, his personality, and his thoughts set everything in motion and color our thinking about all the other characters. How would you describe his character? Is he brilliant? Is he really lonely? Is is truly a misfit? What IS Ned's problem?

(Excuse me....are we putting Tumbledown to bed? Before Kirsten has told us about the comments in the book she bought in London? Was it "Television Films of the 1980s"?) Perhaps she can just jump in when she surfaces. I would like to hear it. Thank you:-)

(Evelyn)are we putting Tumbledown to bed? .....Or should we have another topic in which to discuss his theater work only and leave this one to movies?? Hoping that there will be a new theater role SOON! Apart from Tumbledown which I still haven�t been able to get converted, I�m afraid I�ll have to disturb the 3DOR discussion with my FP experiences.

(Elena) I�m afraid I�ll have to disturb the 3DOR discussion with my FP experiences. You can break in anytime....Elena, this is a loose board (we are loose women!!) we like to hear comments anytime:-)

we like to hear comments anytime:-) Exactly, so if Karen wants to start 3DOR, that's okay with me too. The girl's prepared. I mean she was practically reciting the lines along with the actors. As far as Tumbledown, I know I'm still sending out tapes to people so where are you? And any other films - please, don't wait for the formal discussion to begin. Chime on in any time. I could talk about FP forever.

(Heide)As far as Tumbledown, I know I'm still sending out tapes to people so where are you? I thought that was the rule...."you get a tape...you post..." That's what you told me :-)

(Winter:) The football fanatic has become, sickly enough, the late 20th century version of the dark, brooding love-interest. Hey, I can be a football fanatic if you want me to be one. Just not Arsenal, please. Back from sunny California, which was HOT. It's grey and grinding here in Gotham (NYC). Work and rain. I miss the warmth of Santa Monica. Met up with divers Pemberlians/Droolers and fun was had. (Failed Winter's pronunciation test, however.) Sorry to post a completely irrelevant thing here but messages are arriving so thick and fast on Colin Firth 94 (or whatever we're up to by now) and posting there is like trying to cross Oxford Street at rush hour. Looking forward to seeing FP, despite the club.

And wot's wrong with Arsenal? I've seen a couple of their most recent games (on Spanish television, which makes it a bit of a chore to understand)..and they're not bad at all. But I don't know much about the game aside from basics, so you'll have to enlighten us before it's released on the big screen.

(Evelyn) (Excuse me....are we putting Tumbledown to bed? Before Kirsten has told us about the comments in the book she bought in London? Was it "Television Films of the 1980s"?) Perhaps she can just jump in when she surfaces. I would like to hear it. Evelyn, I�ll do my best to post some quotes soon, but unfortunately I�m *very* busy these days. But since I feel that the T�down discussion is dying it would perhaps do if I send the comments to you privately. So that the other discussions are not muddled up by it. Well, we�ll see, first of all I have to type it! It was "British Television Drama in the 1980s" edited by George W. Brandt.

(Kirsten) But since I feel that the T�down discussion is dying it would perhaps do if I send the comments to you privately. Please, Kirsten, not privately. I'm interested and perhaps you can rev the discussion up a bit. Surely Arsenal is better than Manchester United! At least you don't see any Gunners going round with odd assorted Spice Girls.

I happen to be fairly knowledgeable in Arsenal football. (I'm secretly in love w/ Dennis Bergkamp;)) Man U? uck! However showdown w/ Man U is inevitable;( (I secretly hate David Beckham!:))

As promised I�ve finally typed the quotes (should rather have checked my scanner to see what�s to do to scan a text - next time) . I�ve tried to keep the layout of the original text but don�t know whether I got all the HTML tags right - hope so. I typed this text very carefully and really hope that there are not too many typos or even misquotes - if so I apologies. The whole study is very interesting and it was difficult to decide which bits to quote. I hope I�ve chosen something that allows you to gain an insight into the whole story. Hope you enjoy. Quotes from �Tumbledown and The Falklands Play� by Geoffrey Reeves as published in �British Television Drama in the 1980s�, 1993. Referring to the �battle� fought prior to the transmission of Tumbledown ********************* � As the book Robert Lawrence had written with his father, When the Fighting is Over, was published the same day as Tumbledown was transmitted - 31 May 1988 - the previous week the press was filled with reviews, interviews and much comment. Lawrence told The Times on 27 may that he had decided to tell the truth about the Falklands conflict because the public had been given a sanitised version of the events. He also wanted to show how the wounded had been treated when they returned home. He said he was angry he had not been allowed to take part in a victory parade in London. The Times also interviewed his former CO, Brigadier Mike Scott, who as a Lieutenant-Colonel led the 2nd Battalion Scots Guards against Argentine troops on Mount Tumbledwon in 1982. The underlying theme of the book is that the regiment failed to look after the wounded. But I really cannot accept that. It makes me very sad to hear Robert talking like this. We did all we could for the wounded. The next day the Scots Guards held a press conference to prove the regiment had looked after its own. They had a document listing how the regiment had catered for the needs of the forty-two soldiers wounded in the assault. Corporals, lance-corporals and colour-sergeants, all with shattered limbs, were wheeled on to tell their stories of being found jobs and given loans. Journalists were busy interviewing all veterans they could trace. The Sunday Times gave the book to the Corporal who was closest to Lawrence when he was shot. He said, �It glamourizes war, makes it more dramatic than it was. He mentions things he could not possibly have seen.� It emerged on 30 May that the BBC were being asked to cut one scene from the film before it was transmitted. The scene, which occurred in the last sequence during the assault on Mt Tumbledown, showed Lawrence passing a fellow officer: in the published script PETER FYSHE is sitting behind a rock, shivering, looking incredebly young. He hisses at ROBERT as he goes past: �Don�t go on, Robert. It�s awful. Don�t let them make you. Shoot anyone who tries to make you ...� ROBERT glares at PETER FYSHE, who shuts up. ROBERT and his platoon go on. In the next scene the sergeant explains that Mr Fyshe back, sorr, got caught in the back-blast of an 84-mm. Soon be out of it. He�ll be fine. The same day the BBC issued a statement: �Our position is that Tumbledown is a play which speaks for itself. We have never suggested that it is a documentary or a drama-documentary.� The next day it was reported that lawyers acting for Captain James Stuart, 24, had taken last-ditch action on the day of transmission to have the scene removed. In the morning, Captain Stuart couldn�t comment. �I have to have someone from the Ministry of Defence here at my side before I can say anything�, he told the reporters, but by the afternoon, presumably with a little help from the Ministry, he issued a statement: I also fought on Tumbledown with many brave guardsmen in my platoon, as we achieved our objectives at the end of a very long and very bitterly fought battle. At no time on Tumbledown, nor at any stage of the Falklands campaign did I say to Robert Lawrence that we should not go on or that he should shoot anyone who tried to stop him going back. The BBC said it was decided to remove the scene �on compassionate grounds� after representations had been made. (Ten days later Lawrence and Stuart �settled their differences on honourable terms�: the 100-word reference to abandoning the assault would be removed from further editions of the best-selling book.) So, minus twelve seconds and almost four years after the inception, Tumbledown was finally shown. Its audience was estimated at 10.55 million, being tenth in the week�s ratings, significantly higher than the norm for serious drama. (Alan Bennett�s Talking Heads had 4 million in the same slot.)� ***************** More to come.

More quotes from �Tumbledown and The Falklands Play� by Geoffrey Reeves as published in �British Television Drama in the 1980s�, 1993. Some reactions after the first transmission of Tumbledwon: ********************* �Although Today found a guardsman who said Robert Lawrence was a �good bloke�, other journalists talked to the anaesthetist who cared for Lawrence in the field: he said the film was wrong - �Five times over the top�, and the Drill Sergeant who pushed Lawrence�s wheelchair to St Paul�s also said the film was wrong; Lawrence had been in the front row of the transept aisle.� [...] �Physiotherapists from St Thomas�s Hospital were reported as having written directly to Richard Eyre demanding an apology for being portrayed as patronising, abusive, negligent and even sadistic. The times had the thunderers of the old brigade. General Sir John Hackett, writing from the Cavalry & Guards Club: A signal disservice is being done to the Scots Guards, one of the British Army�s most distinguished regiments, outstanding in performance on the battle field, and, as is common in great fighting regiments, well known for its concern over the well-being of all members of the regimental family. It has been attacked by an ex-officer badly wounded in the Falklands in writings and public utterances which have saddened many by their insensitivity, arrogance and inaccuracy. This is a good young man gone sour ... Not a few would have been grateful for a small fraction of the 130,000 pounds ... Robert Lawrence was handed out from the charity to salve his wounds. And distraught mothers: Mrs Rosemary Calder-Smith wrote to The Times: As the true-life mother of �Sophie� portrayed in last night�s film of Tumbledown I am saddened and disappointed at the exploitation of unquestioned bravery - exploitation solely for the financial benefit of Robert Lawrence himself. Nothing was re-enacted or mentioned of the unfailing support and encouragement which my daughter gave to him during his first months home from the Falklands and which undoubtedly gave him the will and the determination to live and to make the amazing recov ry he has since made. The pressures on her were enormous and she spent every possible moment of every day a his bedside. She was portrayed as nothing more than a feelingless sex kitten ... I take great exception to this, having seen at first hand the constant support she gave Robert whilst under a terrible strain in her own life ... I suggest that the powers that be in future look deeper into the background of potential officers in the Brigade of Guards before recruiting. The Sunday Express was soon onto her daughter, Victoria Calder-Smith, reporting she was outraged at the way I was represented as an uncaring loose woman ... A lot of it was pure invention. I was in bed with Robert as they showed in the play. But they really spiced up the dialogue. When some weeks later Richard Brooke revealed that Miss Calder-Smith had been shown the script by Robert Lawrence before transmission and had approved it, her mother merely said, �As far as I�m concerned the matter is over.� In July The Times reported a BBC crackdown on TV drama that mixes fact and fiction. Marmaduke Hussey, said to have been �deeply affected� by Ms Calder-Smith�s letter, has signalled his concern at the hurt and suffering which can be caused to friends and relatives of people portrayed in such programmes, known as faction. Tumbledwon raised issues about drama based on real life which the BBC will have to consider seriously.� *********************** More to come.

More quotes from �Tumbledown and The Falklands Play� by Geoffrey Reeves as published in �British Television Drama in the 1980s�, 1993. Something about the film itself: **************** � Of the published screenplay, 20 per cent wasn�t filmed. One sequence on board the Queen Elizabeth II as the regiment sailed to the Falklands was cut on grounds of costs. Others, mainly towards the end, appear to have gone on grounds of length or repetition. A speech about the bureaucratic hurdles that had to be overcome so he could drive again was cut. Sally, a therapist who tried to get him to do woodwork, also went (she got the same treatment as the others - �You silly bitch� - �You simpering wet ow!�), as did the hospital visit of a beautiful Swedish girl who brings him pornographic magazines and slides her hand under the coverlet. This fragmented structure enables Wood to gain sympathy for the most unsympathetic of heroes by presenting only the minimum of the pre-battle gung-ho warrior and keeping the most Ramboesque image for the end. First we are confronted with the hard-done-by victim of mindless bureaucracy and inefficiency, guaranteed to get a response from anyone who has had any dealings with an NHS Hospital or Social Security office in Thatcherie Britain. It enables him to have the discussion about the emotional problem of stabbing a man to death before we are shown the butchery. Given the tenacious qualities of Robert Lawrence we would clearly have viewed the ordeal differently had the first 20 minutes simply shown the ruthless young warrior going about his trade with such obvious enjoyment. It also constantly juxtaposes the physically whole body of the youth who went to war with the appalling disablement that followed. The strength and weakness of Tumbledown lie in the character of the protagonist: energetic he may be, but attractive or admirable he is not. The anger which is constantly expressed in Colin Firth�s extraordinary performance may be quite justified but it hardly makes for complexity: the action of the film forces us to consider the nature of heroism. It doesn�t come from the hero itself, comfortable with military clich�s and Sloany friends. The successful soldier in this film is represented as a unthinking trained killer with surface manners and no emotional maturity. What he has to do he clearly does well, and Wood rightly poses the question about the relationship to society of the men who are paid to protect it and yet are in some ways totally alienated from it by their disruptive behaviour; but does this make for a dramatically complex hero? This man never comes to terms with the fact that he lost almost half his brain for nothing. [...] What is interesting is what his story throws up about the society in which he lives. Here Wood is masterly. Being anti-war but pro-soldier enables him to write short but sharp scenes from the inside, with many telling details. The quality of the writings gives actors superb opportunities, and under Richard Eyre�s direction they are all taken. It is surprising just how little screen time it takes for the cameos to bite. As the parents, David Calder and Barbara Leigh-Hunt reign supreme; they are also g ven the best single shot of the film: the long walk into camera as they emerge from the first meeting with their wounded son, down a covered corridor between the blocks of the hospital. He is fighting back his tears. She is very quiet. Indeed, it is one of he few shots which has any visual distinction to it at all, where what happens in the frame actually has some correlation with the emotional movements inside the characters. For the rest it is a case of straightforward television shooting of talking hea s: except for what appears to be a striving towards the mythic. There are a couple of shots of Lawrence sitting on the prow of a ship, shot in black and white and looking like the poster for a British 1950s film about the Second World War. These shots relate directly to what Lawrence is thinking (the first comes while he performs the ceremonial duties at the Tower) and appear to express his wish fulfilment: Lawrence as a Boy�s Own Paper hero of the 1930s. There is another shot, interposed seven times during the second hour of the film, of a back-lit soldier, wear ng his framed back-pack and carrying a rifle, moving slowly as a guitar strums. Unrelated to the visual design of the rest of the film, it seems like a monster cut adrift from arctic lands. The monolithic rhythm contrasts with Lawrence�s relentless energy so it appears as an author�s comment on his subject: but signifying what?� [...] �Of course, by using Lawrence Charles Wood attracted a far greater audience for his work than if it had been a totally fictional piece bursting on an unsuspecting viewing public. By this device he entered the market-place and so got much greater hearing for his work. [...] Unfortunately, as a result, Wood condemned his work to be seen in a highly charged and politicised atmosphere in which many of the onlookers were able comfortably to keep hold of their prejudices. By keeping the names, by appearing to d al with the facts, he allowed people to discredit the work. Some of the facts were �wrong� so the whole thing could be discounted.� ****************************** That�s it for the moment.

Well, and the cream topping at the end. That's the picture accompanying the text. Lieutenant Robert Lawrence (L) getting to know Colin Firth who is to playhim in the quasi-documentaryrecreationof an aspect of the Falklands campaign: Charles Wood's Tumbledwon. BBC 1988 I'm sorry for the quality, I couldn't manage to get it better.

Oops, seems that I'm getting tired, forgot some blanks, sorry. But at least it all worked out as planed.

Although I LOVE to watch Colin as Paul A (because I love to watch him as anything it seems), I don�t think the role is exactly right for him. He lacks the something that you need to be a really plausible �lad�, he just is not one, he looks far too sensitive and intelligent for that. I think that�s a problem in the movie actually, he simply doesn�t look like a football fanatic to me! And he swears (bollocks, fuck etc.) like someone who doesn�t normally use those words.

Kirsten, thanks for posting all of the above. The military certainly felt a strong need to defend their position. I don't doubt that Lawrence was an angry young man and what happened to him colored his perception of the events but it is his perception. I think this is what he thinks he saw and his version is never going to agree with what the army says they did. Did he exaggerate events? Who knows but I would say he himself is not shown in a very complimentary manner either. I think Lawrence's basic message in this film is that the army and civilians were not prepared for the brutality of this dirty little war. I don't think he was focusing on cowardice by other officers or unfaithfulness by a selfish girlfriend - they're just parts to a whole. An interesting quote: Of course, by using Lawrence Charles Wood attracted a far greater audience for his work than if it had been a totally fictional piece bursting on an unsuspecting viewing public So fiction works better than faction. Thanks for giving us a picture too, Kirsten. (Elena on FP): He lacks the something that you need to be a really plausible �lad�, he just is not one, he looks far too sensitive and intelligent I agree he looks sensitive and intelligent (sigh) but I think the point that Nick Hornby makes, at least in his book, is that you could be sensitive and intelligent and yet still have this unending obsession. Paul's not a football hooligan though he may be a yob (whatever the hell that is). As for the swearing, to me it came so naturally it barely registered.

This man never comes to terms with the fact that he lost almost half his brain for nothing. Perhaps in the film...but in the book he does. Thanks Kirsten, for giving us this additional source of background. And for that pic that I have never seen. ****** (Heide)....the army and civilians were not prepared for the brutality of this dirty little war. Is anyone ever prepared for the eventualities of a war....are we prepared for the current potential explosion in E. Europe?Perhaps as we speak?

to UK fans, not sure if this is the right place to post this but Nick Hornby is in Brighton on Sunday, th 28th, in the Churchill Square Shopping Centre, book-signing Also an I add my thanks Kirsten for th above information and picture.

Ann, what book is he signing for? Does he have a new book out?